Construction mitigation plan for Phase 1: Wyndham Street North Reconstruction, as outlined in report 2025-303, dated July 8, 2025, be approved.

3:13:43construction report there is going to be a presentation in front of us here and

3:13:50and we look forward to that so I got staff are getting into into place so good afternoon Mr.

3:14:20Mayor and Council we're excited today to give you an update on the status of a very significant

3:14:26and impactful project for our downtown replacing and improving the public realm infrastructure

3:14:31in the downtown Guelph is a fundamental component of Guelph's overall long-term sustainable city

3:14:37building vision and this infrastructure investment will support anticipated new growth

3:14:43replace and replace existing and aging infrastructure so how did we get here

3:14:50the downtown infrastructure renewal program otherwise known as D-Turb builds on a vision set

3:14:56out in the second downtown secondary plan completed in 2012 and the 2014 streetscape manual

3:15:04significant effort over the past decade has gone into preparing the city to undertake a

3:15:08generational renewal of municipal downtown infrastructure with intentional and responsible

3:15:15planning the infrastructure that we build today will create a foundation for prosperity sustainability

3:15:21and well-being for this half a century or longer in late 2022 and early 2023 a long list of options

3:15:30was considered through community engagement and by the key internal subject matter experts for

3:15:36Windham Street for the Windham Street environmental assessment a long list of options focused on a

3:15:43number of lanes available for vehicles two or four and the different kinds of accommodation for

3:15:48cycling as well as making Windham Street and St. George's Square pedestrian only spaces with no

3:15:54dedicated car lanes or bike paths based on community feedback and technical input the long

3:16:01list of options for Windham EA was reduced to a short list of options which included two lanes of

3:16:06traffic and different types of accommodation for cycling the option to convert Windham Street

3:16:13and St. George's Square to pedestrian only spaces was not carried through to the short list of

3:16:17options for a variety of reasons including accommodating transit movements through the

3:16:23downtown as well as emergency vehicle movements and resistance from the business and community about

3:16:28impacts to customers and their businesses over the course of 2023 an extensive technical and

3:16:35policy review as well as public engagement and consultation on the short list of options was

3:16:40undertaken this review resulted in the preferred options for Windham Street and St. George's Square

3:16:45being recommended to Council for approval in February 2024 in September of 2024 Council further

3:16:54approved enhanced streetscaping for Windham Street including improved tree canopy flexible streets

3:16:59public seating and paving stones in highlighted areas council also approved direction at this time

3:17:05to expedite the construction with reasonable mitigation measures taken to minimize construction

3:17:11disruption and road closures big green button not working oh got it thanks so council has already

3:17:31made many decisions to guide this project including Windham Street having one lane of traffic in each

3:17:37direction with separated bike lanes and significant pedestrian areas on both sides of the street

3:17:45sorry am i on the wrong this is the right one thank you St. George's Square included including

3:17:51an intersection with minor upgrades rather than the previously approved concept for a traffic circle

3:17:57enhanced streetscaping along Windham Street and in St. George's Square and proceeding with fast pace

3:18:03construction today we are asking council to provide some final direction so that the detailed design

3:18:08of phase one can be finalized and the project can be tender later this year we are asking council to

3:18:14approve the capital implementation plan and how phase one is staged we are also asking council

3:18:20to approve the construction mitigation strategy and we are asking council to approve the concept

3:18:25plan for St. George's Square i would note at this time that the plan being presented for St. George's

3:18:31Square is a concept approval of the concept including the main elements that are being proposed will

3:18:36allow the project team to move to a more detailed design including materials design of elements

3:18:42and choice of street furniture the city's downtown renewal efforts encompass a number of projects

3:18:51that are underway and upcoming these projects are interrelated and the staff are working to

3:18:56ensure that there is synergy between the projects and that they are all advancing towards a shared

3:19:00goal of a healthy vibrant and beautiful downtown for generations over the past decade the city's

3:19:07efforts to revitalize Guelph's downtown has been met with great success we've renewed places and

3:19:13open spaces in our downtown core and attracted new businesses and residents to help mitigate the impact

3:19:20of COVID-19 felt by the downtown businesses residents and visitors we launched new programs

3:19:26and initiatives to support economic recovery and today our downtown remains an appealing destination

3:19:32contributing to the economic vitality of the city to build upon the past efforts and deliver on the

3:19:39compelling vision set through the downtown secondary plan the city is making significant

3:19:44investments in infrastructure redevelopment transportation programs and initiatives over

3:19:50the next 10 years these investments are fueling several projects that are currently underway

3:19:56the overall downtown renewal efforts will transform how the downtown looks feels and

3:20:01functions making it future ready to support the growth to 2051 and beyond we are working toward

3:20:08a common goal of renewing and revitalizing downtown resulting in a vibrant and thriving urban

3:20:14center today we are going to discuss the downtown infrastructure renewal but other projects underway

3:20:19in the downtown include the baker district redevelopment which includes the library the permanent

3:20:25seasonal patio program the downtown waste project the heritage conservation district study the community

3:20:32planning permit system and we've just wrapped up the downtown heights official plan amendment with

3:20:37some design guide guide guidance for tall buildings to come since projects undergoing the

3:20:45since projects undergoing the overarching downtown renewal program are interrelated

3:20:49and multi mutually enforcing a critical component of the work involves ensuring that there is synergy

3:20:55between the projects and that they are all advancing cohesively towards the shared vision of a transformed

3:21:02and downtown and revitalized downtown the downtown infrastructure renewal program as

3:21:09part of the downtown renewal initiative advances strategic themes of city building and people

3:21:14and the economy as it promotes them improving historic places and streets to create new places

3:21:20for gathering and recreation and re-enforces and expands the role of the core as a prosperous

3:21:27attractive and welcoming regional center for residents businesses and visitors alike the expected

3:21:35outcome creates a downtown that supports people and the environment and creates opportunities for a

3:21:40thriving community and a thriving community and economy by enabling private investment in the

3:21:46future the downtown infrastructure renewal work aligns well with the city's growth priorities

3:21:54gulf is doing what it what it takes to create more housing options to create ontario's housing

3:22:00to address ontario's housing crisis as a part of the city's housing pledge city staff continue to

3:22:06undertake work that provides flexibility and make it easier for housing to be approved and more

3:22:11affordable for housing to be built the city's strategic plan directs staff to take action to

3:22:17improve housing supply and this program of work is a significant part of those housing aspirations

3:22:24well with that i will turn it over to reg thank you very much uh deputy cio holmes

3:22:34good afternoon council i'm happy as always to be here and talk downtown infrastructure it's

3:22:40it's what i live and breathe for the there we already accept her council has seen this map before

3:22:49it's become one of our fan favorites it shows the program uh where it applies within the downtown

3:22:55secondary area you know the current focus of our infrastructure program is is that's what is in

3:23:01beige the area is primarily includes the infrastructure north or the railway tracks and the portions of

3:23:07windham and wellington south of the tracks are included to address critical downstream infrastructure

3:23:13needs capacity constraints are are a challenge there the remainder of the secondary plan uh

3:23:20shown in blue will be part of future considerations as we develop plans over the future the overall

3:23:27capital implementation plan that was discussed in the report before you uh sets out the 12 year plus

3:23:34program for the reconstruction of the downtown area in beige uh the program of projects was built

3:23:40based on specific criteria developed early on in the process such as growth enabling and the state

3:23:47of good repair we're already started if you've noticed on wellington street to improve our standard

3:23:54sanitary capacity this is one of our foundational projects to get ready for uh phase one next year

3:24:05question we often get is why is this all necessary at this time well there are two primary reasons

3:24:13one of the key drivers behind the program is our aging infrastructure and i just like to throw up

3:24:17these pictures to remind ourselves the the pictures on the left are a clay pipe in downtown

3:24:23gulf it is you can see it's failing that stuff needs to get replaced as well as the lower right is a

3:24:30picture of ash fault in uh in gulf that road is done structurally deficient it needs to be repaired

3:24:37now we don't have a good picture of a water main break like what we have up in the upper right but

3:24:42our environmental services folks will tell you they've experienced these fun days as well

3:24:48the other key driver is housing intensification uh downtown is core to achieving our housing pledge

3:24:56we need to build the housing enabling infrastructure to welcome the new neighbors to downtown

3:25:05so let's talk more detail about how construction is going to work in the first phase not being

3:25:11uh

3:25:13windom street north so this graphic outlines the limits of phase one uh windom street from

3:25:21far quarry to woowich and it does include all of the st georgia square this construction project

3:25:26is the backbone of downtown infrastructure renewal and includes st georgia square plus the work of

3:25:33several uh important east west intersections so that doesn't have any use so everybody is interested

3:25:45in what will happen when the construction work zone sequencing for phase one will consist of

3:25:53primarily three zones that we think of it i want to emphasize that the work zones will overlap in

3:25:59time and space and may be modified slightly as we put the finishing touches on the contract

3:26:05with the shortlisted contractors the proposed timing at work is starts at the bottom that area in

3:26:12blue is in april to july of next year and includes the card and street intersection at the same time

3:26:22work can commence on the second work zone and that's shown in sort of that green color and could be it

3:26:29under construction starting as early as april 2026 and extending through november 2027

3:26:36this area is from cardin to douglas and includes st georgia square the third work zone is that area

3:26:43north is the st georgia square with the baker park hay being available in late 2026 the downtown

3:26:50and baker district program teams considered various staging options and determined that starting upper

3:26:57windom north of st georgia square in early september 2026 provided the best solution and also provides

3:27:05parking in the area throughout the busy summer season and still enables importantly completion

3:27:11of phase one by the end of october 2027 fortunately we can't give an exact insurance on what work

3:27:20will be done when until we have the contractors details schedule in april of next year our commitment

3:27:26however is to inform businesses and residents as soon as we know the contractor will be incentivized

3:27:34to reopen roads early minimize interruptions the transit movement through the windom mc macdenow

3:27:41intersection and minimize the footprint all while achieving the targeted end date of november 2027

3:27:48substantial performance we should expect some finishing work deficiency repairs and final

3:27:55paving in early 2028 but the idea is there will be no road closures saving except maybe some short

3:28:03term overnight to enable paving and maybe some critical work with respect to our utilities that

3:28:10are important to the reconstruction of downtown as well we are seeing work being done right now by

3:28:16our natural gas supplier to improve their system they are expected to finish up in september

3:28:23along windom and within st georgia square the electrical system requires significant improvements

3:28:32and upgrades that work is planned to start mid september this year just a couple of months away

3:28:40beginning at the south end and working north there's a lot of electrical work required

3:28:45and we're exploring options to expedite the work to minimize the risk to the overall

3:28:51project schedule i wish to highlight a few key points of interest during construction

3:29:02windom street we should expect will be fully closed to vehicular traffic

3:29:06we are also recommending extension extended work hours up to 24 hour operation

3:29:14except from saturdays 11 p.m to 4 a.m mondays and holidays and there will be

3:29:21discretion for our contract administrator to waive those hours based on contractor needs

3:29:28so we also may be modifying these hours slightly based on our discussions with our shortlisted

3:29:35contractors but the idea is that we are planning to have as much time available to the contractor

3:29:41is expected now we are saying they can work 24 hours it will be up to the contractor discretion

3:29:47how they their means and methods to achieve november of 2027 they have this opportunity

3:29:54available to them we are also going to be including incentive and disincentive clauses

3:30:01in the contract to achieve milestones reopen roads as soon as possible and complete on time

3:30:08or even early completion we should expect season of shutdowns during the winter

3:30:16based on conditions and schedules there could be times in january of february where the road

3:30:22is closed but yet there's little work going on just because it's too cold or snowy and it's not

3:30:27economically feasible to reopen the road to make it available now access during construction

3:30:39is one of our key success factors pedestrian access to businesses will be maintained at all

3:30:45times throughout construction again always for those short disruptions that may involve work

3:30:52being done right in front of that store but we'll be talking with and coordinating closely with

3:30:58those business owners traffic disruption is going to be minimized on macdenell street across windom

3:31:05especially to maintain bus access to the guave central station wayfinding and business open signing

3:31:13will be erected maintain and modified as necessary still on the theme of access during construction

3:31:21um so along with pedestrian access to businesses we also we also need to think about goods movement

3:31:27to and from businesses all loading and unloading needs to be coordinated throughout the construction

3:31:33site and that's going to be integral to all the contractor does their work there may be central

3:31:39loading and unloading zones will be established for smaller deliveries larger deliveries will be

3:31:45perhaps coordinated and moved through the site by the contractor

3:31:50on-street parking will be unavailable during construction however ultimate parking at the

3:31:56macdenell parking lot will be provided i wish now to turn it over to stacey to take us through

3:32:04the remainder of the presentation thank you wrench good afternoon everybody so let's talk about

3:32:13construction mitigation over the last few years the project team has been collecting thoughts

3:32:19ideas and concerns in order to develop a comprehensive construction mitigation plan

3:32:24we've been collecting these thoughts ideas um and concerns from business owners from downtown

3:32:29employees, residents, visitors, as well as other municipalities that have recently undergone

3:32:35downtown reconstruction we've connected with the dgba's board of directors as well as the

3:32:40broader membership at their agm meetings in 2024 and 2025 we also recognize that the collective

3:32:47needs of downtown and downtown businesses may change as we get closer to construction and even

3:32:52as we proceed through construction so we also want the construction mitigation plan to have a degree

3:32:57of flexibility so that we can respond to those changing needs above every above everything we

3:33:03learned that many of the local businesses have different needs so we are going to do our best

3:33:07to help mitigate the impacts of construction so that these businesses can continue to operate

3:33:12the construction mitigation tactics that we are proposing fit into four categories construction

3:33:18pace, phasing and staging, communication and information sharing, direct construction support,

3:33:25and the business support plan. Under the category of construction pace, phasing and staging,

3:33:33reg has just provided a lot more information for you but generally includes that expedited

3:33:38construction allowing for those extended work hours, construction staging to reopen streets

3:33:44as soon as possible, facilitating the utility replacement ahead of construction beginning,

3:33:51and including incentive and disincentive clauses for construction to finish on time or early.

3:33:58Under communication and information sharing we are developing an extensive communication plan

3:34:05which is a plan to provide frequent and continuous construction updates so that residents, business

3:34:10owners and visitors to downtown know what to expect in the short and long term. We'll be using

3:34:15tools such as the downtown update newsletter which continues to build the list of contacts,

3:34:21social media, physical signage throughout and surrounding the construction area,

3:34:27sharing information through the dgba as well as a new diggable download web page which includes

3:34:33all of the construction resources. We are also looking to create a construction liaison group

3:34:40or street captains which is a group of people that represent downtown businesses on a block by

3:34:45block basis in order to share information between businesses and the project team and the contractor.

3:34:52This is intended to provide opportunities for two-way communication to disperse information

3:34:57and gather concerns so that issues can be addressed quickly and in a satisfactory manner.

3:35:02A full sum terms of reference for this group will be developed and the group will be established

3:35:07in early 2026. And finally ongoing and continuous communication with the dgba. City staff will

3:35:13continue to attend the monthly board meetings in order to maintain ongoing and continuous communication.

3:35:22Under the category of direct construction supports we are looking to establish a downtown

3:35:27construction office which is a location easily accessed by business owners and the public to

3:35:32get information, coordinate upcoming events or connect with staff to address address issues that

3:35:38come up. We have also already brought on board a downtown ambassador which is a city staff member

3:35:44dedicated to assisting businesses and the public with issues that arise during construction and

3:35:50this person will generally be located in the downtown construction office and on site. The

3:35:55staff member will have authority to take actionable steps to address issues that arise.

3:36:00Complimentary alternative parking as Reg mentioned we are proposing that the McDonnell

3:36:06street lot will provide complementary parking to offset the loss of on-street parking on Windham

3:36:12Street and as budget permits we are exploring complementary parking in alternative locations

3:36:17as well. Wayfinding we are developing a strategy before phase one construction begins which

3:36:25includes wayfinding in and around the construction area directions to parking to businesses and to

3:36:30transit for pedestrian cyclists and drivers. Access to businesses Reg covered this in great detail

3:36:37but making sure that the contractor can help provide access to businesses for deliveries

3:36:42and that from a pedestrian perspective the pedestrian routes to businesses is as easily

3:36:48accessible as possible. Business delivery access plans our downtown ambassador is already working

3:36:54to connect with individual businesses to develop these so these are individual business access plans

3:37:01that will work with the contractor's team to get supplies and goods in and out of businesses.

3:37:08Facilitating quick stops and accessible parking so we're looking to design the end of each

3:37:13side street where it dead ends at Windham during construction to accommodate these things so to

3:37:19accommodate accessible parking to accommodate short-term parking for quick stops as well as

3:37:24pickups and drop-offs as well as solid waste pickup and storage. Enhanced construction safety

3:37:31measures so upgrading the required safety measures such as lighting and hoarding so that it provides

3:37:38a fun and inviting atmosphere. We are exploring a parking shuttle so that this provides opportunities

3:37:45to move people from parking structures to different areas of downtown that are not particularly those

3:37:51that aren't located close to our parking structure. Operational impacts we are working across

3:37:57departments to understand how construction may impact downtown operations so that we can work

3:38:01to mitigate those impacts. This includes transit, downtown maintainers and solid waste collection,

3:38:07parking, Sleaman Center and the Riverrun Center to name a few. And finally the fourth category is

3:38:15the business support plan. This includes a marketing strategy where we'll retain a consultant to

3:38:20develop marketing strategies and campaign for downtown that can also be shared with businesses

3:38:25and key interest holders in downtown reconstruction. We'll provide the opportunity for training and

3:38:31business consulting services. These would be complimentary bookable support services at the

3:38:37downtown offices for business owners and would include topics such as managing cash flow, managing

3:38:43inventory, e-commerce and online online sale support. We're proposing a downtown event grant

3:38:51and this would be intended to provide funding to the DGBA to enhance or add to their current

3:38:57portfolio of events with a goal that enhancing or adding events will help attract people,

3:39:03customers and clients, downtown during construction. This may also include funding to run contests or

3:39:09create other incentives for customers and clients to patronize downtown businesses.

3:39:14Construction information package and checklist, a website and electronic PDF package that is

3:39:20regularly updated with current construction information and resources, enhanced cleaning

3:39:25services, ongoing window cleaning, facade cleaning and sidewalk maintenance as well as dust suppression

3:39:32on an ongoing basis. Construction tours, these would be additional events during construction

3:39:38coordinated with the contractor to attract people to downtown. Looking at reducing the seasonal patio

3:39:45program fee to approximately 50% of the current rate, this is to allow people where there are

3:39:53streets to have patios to still have those during construction with the idea that attracting people

3:39:59during peak construction months is ideal for all of downtown. The construction mitigation strategy

3:40:06will continue to evolve and adapt to the changing needs of downtown. Today we are recommending that

3:40:11council approve the strategy with that understanding. And finally, we move on to the design concept for

3:40:19St. George's Square. In conjunction with the Wyndham Street North right-of-way reconstruction,

3:40:24this provides a logical time to reimagine this important public space in the context of an

3:40:29intensifying downtown. The renewal of this public space is a valuable city-building opportunity

3:40:36to transform St. George's Square into a destination. It will anchor downtown wealth by

3:40:41providing opportunities for business activation space, the self-activation of the space through

3:40:46informal daily use and for use during major events. While this square will continue to allow

3:40:52access for vehicles, it will be promoted, sorry, it will promote increased pedestrian activity

3:40:59and comfortably accommodate all modes of transportation. So we have a fly-through of the

3:41:06concept for you. Let's see if it plays here. So one of the goals of downtown renewal is to create a

3:41:14place for everyone. St. George's Square is the heart of downtown and downtown is the heart of the

3:41:20city. The design concept for St. George's Square that we are presenting stays true to that goal

3:41:26of downtown renewal. With this concept, we want to create a place for everyone. We want the square

3:41:32to be a place that can be used every day of the year with or without programming, meaning it can

3:41:37be self-activated. Maybe you picked up lunch or a coffee from one of our local businesses or maybe

3:41:42you brought it from home, but there's a place for you to sit and eat or enjoy your coffee. Or maybe

3:41:47you're out for a stroll and need a place to rest. There will be a place to do that as well. We also

3:41:52want the square to be a place that can accommodate large community events. The design of the squares

3:41:58and the furnishings within it will be flexible enough to accommodate things like spirit of the

3:42:02season or art on the street. The square also needs to be a place that supports our downtown businesses.

3:42:08The concept allows for future patios that add vibrancy to the square today, as well as other

3:42:13business activation space to support the businesses that surround the square and beyond. With all of

3:42:18those wants and needs, the design concept has to be flexible. The concept that we are asking you

3:42:27to prove today plays off the various landforms and changes in topography that are experienced

3:42:32throughout Guelph. It envisions the square as a public open space designed as an active urban square

3:42:38with an emphasis towards creating a community space for a wide range of events and activities.

3:42:44The layout prioritizes durability and functionality, featuring paved areas, flexible seating, and open

3:42:50spaces that can be easily transformed to accommodate festivals, performances, markets, and community gatherings.

3:42:58This urban space is intended to be an inviting hub for outdoor activities,

3:43:03with ample room for gathering and play, making it a dynamic year-round destination for people of all

3:43:09ages. This is only a concept and in order for council and the public to understand the elements

3:43:15proposed to be included in the square and the design at a high level, the next phase of work

3:43:21will involve getting into the details, designing the individual shade structures, the planters,

3:43:27and how the plazas will be laid out. We'll figure out what elements are included in the area for play,

3:43:32choose furnishings, as well as the specific materials being used for each component.

3:43:37The next phase of work will also include further discussions with the Mississaugas of the Credit

3:43:41First Nation about how the indigenous history of these lands can be appropriately recognized.

3:43:50The most important heritage aspect of the square is the shape itself. The design concept highlights

3:43:56the shape through the use of vertical elements to visually frame the square. The concept also

3:44:01introduces the promenade, which is a band around the square highlighting its shape, as well as

3:44:05providing opportunities for patios and seating. The choice of materials are intended to complement,

3:44:12but not replicate, the materials in the building surrounding the square and within our downtown.

3:44:17We also want to think about the square in the larger context of downtown. The design and materials

3:44:22should signify that it is a special place, but also recognize the relationship between this public

3:44:28space and our streets, which are important public spaces, as well as market square. By using materials

3:44:34that are similar to or that complement the materials used in the streetscape or in market square,

3:44:39we can show that connection to other public spaces. The design we're presenting today accomplishes

3:44:47many things, including its flexible. Let's keep it simple and versatile, allowing for a range of

3:44:53activities to occur in the square. It includes gateway features, so people know they've arrived

3:44:58in a special place. It provides places for people to sit and enjoy the space. It includes large

3:45:05planters to accommodate trees and other plantings, a raised platform for performances and events,

3:45:11and shade structures. It encourages play in the square in a formal area, but also throughout.

3:45:17It continues to include the family fountain, part of the city's public art collection,

3:45:21but moves it to the easterly side of Wyndham Street at the end of Quebec Street. It includes the big

3:45:26heart, which the DGPA debuted during Spirit of the Speed season in 2024. It includes a public

3:45:32washroom in the southeast corner, combined with a building that will provide the mechanical

3:45:37elements required for the family fountain and shelter for the transit stop. It works towards

3:45:42creating flat, usable, and programmable spaces throughout the square and using the proposed

3:45:47planters and steps to assist with the existing grade changes. Overall, the concept for the square

3:45:53has received positive feedback through community engagement. Most importantly, the recommended

3:45:59design concept creates a place for everyone, and we are recommending Council approve the concept

3:46:04so that we can move to the next phase of work, which includes detailed design.

3:46:12And finally, the work that's been undertaken through the Downtown Infrastructure Renewal

3:46:16Program builds on the vision set out in the Downtown Secondary Plan, as well as the

3:46:20Downtown Streetcape Manual. This work, together with other significant projects that have been

3:46:25undertaken or are currently underway, set us up for a renewed, vibrant, and thriving future downtown.

3:46:42I'll sleep on me. Was it too long? I don't know. I was looking at the picture on the screen,

3:46:47and then I saw the title. I was like, questions on my, oh, I think she's done.

3:46:52All right. Sorry about that. Thank you just to ask for their presentation. We do have three people

3:46:59that are signed up to the delegate. And just to give everyone a heads up, I think we'll listen

3:47:04to our delegations if there's any questions. So be it. And then we'll take a break after that. Okay.

3:47:08I think that's a wise decision just to take a moment to take a break. So

3:47:13Bart Minette is here in person. I see you, Bart. Come on down. Kevin, I also see you in person.

3:47:21And Chuck, I also see you in person. So all three of you are here. So come on down. Welcome,

3:47:37Barb. Thank you for joining us. And for all of you, the five minute rule applies, as you've heard

3:47:42before. So it won't be five minutes. Go right ahead. Yeah. Thank you. Good afternoon,

3:47:47Councillors, Mayor and staff. I co-founded the bookshelf in 1973. While searching online for the

3:47:55most updated square design, I tripped on a 200, 200, 2014 draft design. It starts with a section

3:48:03called guiding principles. And the very principle listed is support local business and daily

3:48:10activities. I'm not sure if this is still a guiding principle as some design details do not reflect

3:48:16this. I've worked downtown for over 50 years and have overheard many, many conversations about how

3:48:25people use the downtown. Most often, they say things like, meet you at Capistrano or meet you at

3:48:33Mijira or meet you at the Red Brick or meet you at Buongusto or meet you at Envy's. In other words,

3:48:39business is spawn, activity and community. That is why I hope that you understand how important we

3:48:46are in keeping downtown culture alive and that you understand that our feedback is genuine and comes

3:48:52from experience. My first problem with this design is that it takes space away from any cafe or

3:49:01sidewalk space that might be used by our small businesses. I don't believe that a children's

3:49:07play area is as crucial as helping cafe and restaurant culture. I think that the splash pad

3:49:13at the City Hall is great. I saw examples of it when I walked in today. But all of you probably

3:49:19have experienced the fact that kids don't always like the plastic play spaces engineered for them.

3:49:27Another issue that I find problematic is the fact that outdoor self-cleaning washroom

3:49:32would be more appropriate closer to where the majority of bars are and where the transit hub

3:49:37and train station are located. I have been told that there may be 10 to 15 washrooms

3:49:44in the new library, which people, I'm not exactly sure if that's true, but there will be many

3:49:50washrooms in the new library, which people in and around the square could easily access.

3:49:55My last concern is that this design is quite generic. There is no wow factor, nothing that brings

3:50:02joy and engagement. There is nothing here that citizens and tourists would want to have their

3:50:06picture taken in front of. Two very successful examples of this kind, you can call it public

3:50:13art or installation, are in wealth. One is the begging bar at the Art Gallery of Wealth and the

3:50:19Art Gallery of Wealth and the other is the Griffin statue at the south end of the university.

3:50:25People love these. They dress them, they take pictures in front of them, they remember them.

3:50:31Me, moving the fountain is a big waste of money. Leave it where it is. Use that money and install a

3:50:38public installation, which will make people also say, meet you at the, I don't know, the canoe,

3:50:43the train, the chimney, whatever we happen to be able to create, whatever it happens to be,

3:50:53to turn out being. After all, wealth is a city of artists who either singly or collaboratively

3:51:01could create something that makes its citizens proud. Thank you Barb. Is there any questions

3:51:08to follow up for Barb? Not this time. Christine, yes, sorry, Barb, just one second.

3:51:15Councillor Billings had a question for you. Okay, go ahead.

3:51:20So you, Mr. Mayor, real quick. So you'd like to leave the fountain where it is,

3:51:26and then you would recommend then what, just more beautification in trees in the air and

3:51:32mentions or what Barb? No, I would, I would recommend something that really stands out.

3:51:38I don't know what that is. Like you can use the money that you didn't spend moving the fountain

3:51:45and making some kind of public installation that people would love. Like it could be like a big,

3:51:50huge, bronze chimney swift that kids can climb on, but it's something that's different and something

3:51:56that says take a picture in front of me. Okay, thanks Barb. A drum set maybe?

3:52:08All right. Thank you so much. And next up is Kevin. You're coming down and Chuck, you're in the wings.

3:52:16Very good. You'll be happy to know that my speech writer is on holidays,

3:52:37so there won't be any references to 13th century philosophers this time.

3:52:44Five minutes truly is not enough to kind of devote to everything that staff has presented,

3:52:48so I'm going to confine my comments strictly to the square. I would suggest that staff

3:52:57not approve the recommendation for St. George's Square. I think the square as it's been presented

3:53:07truly is a missed opportunity. I think it lacks imagination. I think it lacks creativity.

3:53:13Essentially, all we've done is we've taken existing pieces of the square and we've just moved them

3:53:19around. Everything's basically been turned this way. The fountain is here, now it's here,

3:53:26the heart's here, now it's here, the performance area is here, now it's here. It really doesn't

3:53:32create what I think would be, and I really hate this word, but that generational change

3:53:38that St. George's Square and downtown Guelph needs.

3:53:43All the existing components that are currently in the square are being repeated, except that

3:53:50we're actually reducing the amount of space that's being devoted to the public performance,

3:53:55like new narrow concerts and all that kind of stuff, by moving it to the Northwest Quadrant.

3:54:00We're reducing the commercially available space that could be used for patios or the such.

3:54:07I don't see actually any allocation for any type of street food vendor space that we currently have,

3:54:14whether it's the existing vendor or something different, but we have added bathrooms and as

3:54:21we've already heard, there's other opportunities I think to create public bathroom use, and we've

3:54:28added a playground, and I'm going to be honest with you here guys. I've come to recognize that in

3:54:33the world there are a lot of destructive forces, and one of them, one of the key ones is children.

3:54:40I've experienced so much damage on my patio, not from anything as far as street people or some

3:54:48of our mentally, it's kids. Kids are the most destructive things, and as things, people,

3:54:56I would honestly question whether I'd put my patio out if it was right beside a children's play area.

3:55:04It would not be something that would add to the experience that my customers are having.

3:55:09Where's the timer, by the way? Oh, here we are. I also just want to touch briefly on

3:55:16a business concept called return on investment. We've been told that there are millions of dollars

3:55:23that are being devoted to this particular enterprise, and we've been told that we've been able to get

3:55:28a few more of those so that we can move from a good plan to a better plan. I'm not seeing the

3:55:35results of that in what's being presented with this concept, and one of the reasons why I don't see

3:55:42the results of that is because one of the core things that drives people downtown are businesses.

3:55:48It isn't what our curbs look like, it isn't what our sidewalks look like. It's actually the commercial

3:55:54businesses that provide the activation for this space, and obviously I'm one of them.

3:56:00My patio takes up roughly 900 square feet, 1.1 percent of St. George's Square. It cost me,

3:56:11I did a little bit of research, cost me about $5,000 all in to build out my patio space.

3:56:17I have a 10-year encroachment agreement. It cost me about $1,000 a year to store it for seven months

3:56:25off season. It cost me $300 a year to set it up, tear it down, and plant some flowers.

3:56:33That's a total investment that I've made of $18,500. That space generates every day between 50 to 150

3:56:45people using it. That's a pretty good return on investment for a very small amount of money

3:56:53being spent. If you'll notice during the presentation that the city provided, in the feedback portion

3:57:02it says that there was concern that existing patios may not fit the new design. The reality is,

3:57:07as option A and option B, they were initially drafted and presented, had absolutely no

3:57:13accommodation for patios. It wasn't even considered by city staff. In the recommended design section

3:57:22that follows, it says areas where existing patios are located were reviewed to ensure that patios

3:57:29could be accommodated in the future. That's a problematic word for me. I'd much rather see the

3:57:37word will. Because the opposite of could is it maybe a could not. Those are my general thoughts.

3:57:46I appreciate you hearing me, Mayor and Councillors. My time is up.

3:57:51Thank you. A follow-up from Councillor Goller. Go ahead.

3:57:55Thank you through your worship. Thank you very much for your presentation.

3:58:00You started by saying that council should not approve this plan. Now, the problem that we have

3:58:05is that unless we approve a plan now, we set back the timeline of the project. Then we're not going

3:58:10to finish by November 2027. One of the other delegates was very clear. Keep the fountain

3:58:17at a focus area that people will remember. Are there changes like that that you see that would be

3:58:23critical and that would make you feel comfortable with us making an approval with some major changes

3:58:29happening tonight? Well, I guess, look, I mean, there's been lots of time to think about this.

3:58:36And that's why I'm really profoundly disappointed that this is what they've come up with.

3:58:40And I think it would be a mistake for council to then say, wow, we don't really have enough time to

3:58:45maybe try something different and to do more public engagement or look at other options.

3:58:51But I think that's, you know, to settle for something that really isn't, you know,

3:58:57something that's going to last for the next 50 years, right? Like that we want.

3:59:03That's why I think right now we're looking at a missed opportunity. There were options that I

3:59:08think that were kind of thrown out there. I had a few myself didn't really translate into any action.

3:59:14But, you know, I think it'd be a mistake to go here. This is the concept. Great. Now we just need

3:59:20to buy some furniture to fill it. I appreciate that. And I do hear, you know, that we have to

3:59:26maintain the space for the public performance, space for the public patios. Is there any other

3:59:32musts that you see that we have to make sure that fit in there from your point of view?

3:59:36Well, I think there's a couple of must nots. Right. Truly, I think you need to give a good,

3:59:42hard look at why we need to put a bathroom there. The square is only so big folks.

3:59:47And we're, like I said, we're reducing the commercial space. We're reducing the performance

3:59:53space. We're introducing something that doesn't really need to be introduced in this area, public

4:00:00bathrooms. Do we really need to take up the real estate that we're taking up with by moving the

4:00:06fountain to where it is? I don't know. Right. I mean, those some of those things are design

4:00:09choices. I'm not going to get too fixated on that. Listen, I threw out the idea a few years ago about,

4:00:16you know, creating, you know, if this is a public space, if this is something that the public,

4:00:22we have actually a public monument that gets absolutely no usage whatsoever, except for one

4:00:30day a year. And that's our cenotaph. It's parked in a completely inaccessible, unusable part of

4:00:37our city that would have actually made a quite a great focal point in the square had we considered

4:00:43moving it there and actually celebrated the history of what Guelph is and the people that

4:00:50served on our behalf and died on our behalf. I don't know why that didn't go anywhere. I don't

4:00:56sure how far it went, but so there were ideas. There are things that could be done. Yeah.

4:01:02Thank you so much, Kevin. Appreciate it. Thank you, Worship.

4:01:05Thanks. And just to follow up from Councillor Alton, please.

4:01:08Thank you very much, Mary Guthrie, through you too, Mr. Pollock.

4:01:12I guess I'll preface it by saying what would Spinoza or Kant like, but the real question,

4:01:18I'm going to challenge you a bit. Over the last 18 months, I would say, I certainly received many

4:01:25complaints about people using the street as a bathroom and in particular in that area. And now

4:01:31I'm hearing you saying it's the wrong place for a bathroom. And I'm trying to figure out how to

4:01:36balance those off. And I will ask staff the same question because I've heard this note twice.

4:01:40How do I balance that? Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I mean, to be honest,

4:01:47one of the ideas again that kind of popped in my head is that we do have a place that's

4:01:51colloquially you are colloquially termed PLE. There is retail space that's available that is

4:01:58very hard to rent in there. Could that be considered by the city to convert into public

4:02:04bathrooms? It's still accessible to the square. It's a little bit out of public view as far as

4:02:12like there is a bathroom, but to be something that's still be very accessible, it's something that

4:02:18could be considered. The TD building is currently completely vacant. Could the city explore taking

4:02:28some of that space and putting public bathrooms there to remove it off of the street into a

4:02:34building seems to be a much more preferable option than to stick it in the middle of a public space.

4:02:42Thank you. I do appreciate that. As I said, I will ask staff about it. And I do take solace

4:02:47in the notion that staff did say this is a conceptual plan and there's flexibility. Thank you.

4:02:55Thanks Kevin. Thank you so much for your delegation.

4:03:00Chuck, you're coming down on behalf of the DGBA and whenever you're ready, go right ahead.

4:03:12Thank you. Mayor Guthrie, council and staff, some of the things I'm going to say are repetitive,

4:03:19but then rather than piecemeal it and get all messed up, I'll just flow through it.

4:03:24My name is Charles Nash and I'm here representing the DGBA in the 423 businesses in our downtown.

4:03:30I'm here today to share some concerns with regards to the plans for St. George's Square.

4:03:35These concerns have been shared with staff over multiple engagements and information sessions.

4:03:43A little bit of context. I think it's widely agreed that downtown is our best tourist attraction

4:03:49and we have expressed and even overexpressed that to maximize that tourist attraction, St.

4:03:55George's Square needs to be flexible for programming and events. This encompasses and includes all

4:04:02fixtures, components and furniture. Four areas of concern. The playground. A playground no matter

4:04:11what size in front of RBC, NAR jewelry, play with clay and Capistrano is not appropriate.

4:04:18Capistrano and play with cray, play with clay's patios need to remain intact and full. It is not

4:04:25only essential to their business models, but creates traffic to the square, which in turn

4:04:30supports other businesses surrounding them. It is vibrant outdoor features like these that bring

4:04:37people downtown, not playgrounds. Square is all over Europe, are where family and friends gather

4:04:44and kids play. They have no playgrounds or no playground equipment, yet kids thrive, run and

4:04:51play there. If parents are bringing their kids down for a dual purpose, we already have an amazing

4:04:58splash pad and ice rink for that. Further, the proposed rubberized surface that is proposed for

4:05:06that playground area will eventually tarnish, be dirty and grimy and unattractive in a couple years,

4:05:12like all others we have witnessed in other cities and other areas. Lastly and most importantly,

4:05:20a playground is not flexible space needed for programming and events. A playground,

4:05:30I'll leave it at that, secondary concern, washrooms. It is highly unfair for those businesses that have

4:05:39to have a structure suddenly pop up in front of them, blocking their signage and star fronts,

4:05:44after being in place for many years. There is no need for a washroom to be in front of any retail

4:05:50in the square. It is an obtrusive and unobtractive and does not add to the beautification of our

4:05:56downtown. Places like Elora have one. While successful, we should keep in mind that Elora does

4:06:03not face some of the challenges that we face. While intentions may be good, outcomes can be

4:06:10quite different. We think it is worth asking the questions. Why are social services washrooms closed

4:06:17and why am I told that the washroom in front of City Hall here is often closed?

4:06:22It might be more prudent to put a washroom near transit and the nightlife as opposed to

4:06:27into the middle of our square and our retail space. Space, as Kevin mentioned, which is quite limited

4:06:33and quite valuable. Secondly, or finally with regards to the washroom, if it is a must,

4:06:44it should be put and placed in a more discreet location.

4:06:51Third area of concern is the fountain. There are many and various positions on the fountain,

4:06:57specifically as whether it should be moved or not at a cost of $40,000.

4:07:04There is, however, consensus on how unattractive the concrete slab and surrounding part of the actual

4:07:11art is. That concrete slab has no element of adding beautification. And if it is going to be moved

4:07:21or left in place, we might want to redesign the actual fountain part of it to reflect

4:07:27of more of a beautiful and attractive downtown that we are all seeking.

4:07:33The second area of consensus that we find from the DGBA is that the footprint of the fountain

4:07:39is too big, it's taking up too much space. That could be used for more programming and additional

4:07:46seating. Fourth area of concern is overall design. Given that we are about to designate the entire

4:07:54downtown of Heritage District, the overall design does not seem to embody or capture or tie into

4:08:00that in any way. Design feels and looks contemporary, cold, and maybe even institutional. We think the

4:08:09elements and component structures should blend more with our heritage designation. In conclusion,

4:08:17and finally, more elements. I'll let you do your last line, okay? Your last delegate, but just

4:08:21grab it right up for us, okay? More elements, components, and features do not necessarily make

4:08:26it a better design or a better square. Rather, the quality of those elements and features being

4:08:32enhanced and done as well as possible will. Thank you. Great. Thank you, Chuck. Is there any follow

4:08:41questions for Chuck and the DGBA at all? Okay. Oh, Councillor Billings, did you have your hand up?

4:08:53Through you, Mr. Mayor. So the takeaway is the heart, the fountain, leave it where they are,

4:08:59yes or no? Well, that has mixed, mixed feelings. The one thing that's been recognized about the

4:09:11heart is that where it is, if you've ever had a chance to drive up Quebec Street, it looks absolutely

4:09:18phenomenal where it is. I would say the representation of moving the fountain is 50-50, whether to

4:09:27leave it there or move it where the heart currently is. There's also some opinions that vary that,

4:09:36you know, the fountain's public art, why does it even have to be downtown in the square at all? It's

4:09:41taking a valuable real estate. Maybe a more appropriate spot would be in front of the library.

4:09:49So really, it's a tough question for me to give a yes or no answer to. Okay. So the downtown

4:09:58board's position with respect to what's in the report about, again, where the fountain is, so the

4:10:03north side, that's enough area for, quote, these large events. I see this space as being small.

4:10:12So downtown board would know what kind of events work, don't work. Is that truly enough space?

4:10:18Because in the package, there's all these planters and such. So the question is, is that really viable,

4:10:25usable space where the fountain is located currently? Could it be made viable and usable

4:10:32space? Absolutely. Is it now? It's limited. As the design is showing right now, it's limited.

4:10:41Well, where the, no, where the fountain is now, I guess the DGAB's position, if we had to lean

4:10:47when, where the other would be to save the $40,000 and leave the fountain where it is,

4:10:52but reduce the footprint, the size of the footprint. Okay. Thanks. Great. Is there anything else for

4:11:02Chuck and the DGBA? Not at, oh, sorry. Yeah, Councillor Chew. Through you, Mr. Mayor. So I'm just

4:11:14giving through some of the other options that we have at hand, just in terms of the programmable

4:11:21elements, like the top priority is the patio spaces and having more, as shown in some of the other

4:11:28options would be preferable. Is that right? Yeah, I think, you know, we also have to consider

4:11:33programming and future events. DGBA's added a lot of events downtown and I think you'll see those

4:11:39events continue to get added. So those components don't seem, you know, some of those shaded

4:11:46components that in our opinion are too modern, could be done with different materials, maybe

4:11:53cobs at woods and stuff that tie into more of a heritage feel, but they don't, they don't appear

4:11:58to us to be movable and flexible. We don't know what's going to come in the next 50 years or what

4:12:03we'll need as far as space goes. But as Kevin pointed out, St. George's Square's overall design,

4:12:12as it is now, is not ideal and there's not, it's not a big space. So that real estate is very

4:12:19valuable and so that space needs to be as flexible as possible. Okay, thanks. Thank you, Councillor.

4:12:30That looks like that's it as well. Chuck, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

4:12:36Okay, as I mentioned in advance, those were our three delegations. There was some correspondence

4:12:41also attached. We are going to take a break. It just makes sense to do that. It's 402 right now.

4:12:47We're going to come back here at 4.15. Okay, so about a 15 minute break and then we'll,

4:12:53we'll move on and make decisions from there. Okay, thank you very much. Okay, everybody,

4:29:36I'm going to call the meeting back to order. Thank you to our online colleagues for jumping on there.

4:29:46Let's give it 30 seconds. Okay, everybody. I would like us to consider, if you would mind us,

4:30:17moving into a closed session just very quickly to discuss a couple of matters that have come up

4:30:24and it does have to do with real estate, either acquisition, disposition, and I'd like us to

4:30:31handle that right away if you don't mind. And I was wondering if the clerks can put up on the screen

4:30:36what section we would need under the municipal act to allow us to do that. And it's that the

4:30:42council of the city of Guelph now hold the meeting that is closed to the public pursuant to section

4:30:47239 to see at the municipal act regarding a proposed or pending acquisition or disposition of land by

4:30:53the municipality or local board. And this is in relation to the Wyndham street north and St.

4:30:58George's square preparing for and mitigating construction report that's in front of us.

4:31:04Councillor Corrine, would you be willing to move that? Thank you. And Gowler would be willing to

4:31:09second that. And I can explain as soon as we get in as quickly as possible and come and to come

4:31:15back out as quickly as possible for the public as well. So I'll call the vote on that. If you

4:31:20is there anyone against that? No? Okay, if we could please move into closed right away, that would

4:31:26be wonderful. Thank you. Just waiting for my colleagues online to turn on their camera for us,

5:00:09please. Also a motion to have the rest of our meeting outside. Is it just me? Sticky in here.

5:00:28Okay, I'm going to call the meeting back to order out here. From a summary perspective,

5:00:32we had a discussion on what we went in camera for, which was under the municipal act under

5:00:38acquisition and disposition of land or properties. And we did give direction to staff in regards to

5:00:47that matter that we discussed back there. Okay. With that, we're going to come back and thank

5:00:53you to our delegations. And now we have six motions that are in front of us as the recommendations

5:00:59from staff. And that is the starting point, definitely where we should be at.

5:01:04Councillor Allt has agreed to move it. I'll give the floor to you and then-

5:01:08By all, I don't have a seconder yet and I do have some questions for staff.

5:01:12Bousatil will second it so it's on the floor and you have the floor.

5:01:15Thank you very much. Mayor Guthrie, I have about six questions for staff

5:01:20arising from their presentation and from some of the presentations of the delegates.

5:01:26The first perhaps five minutes. The first one, I was wondering if staff could perhaps provide

5:01:33some commentary on what has been heard from the delegates and perhaps address concerns

5:01:38such as bathrooms, usable space, scheduling of usable space and the need for us to actually begin

5:01:44to tender contracts at some point. Through you, Mr. Mayor. To Councillor Allt.

5:01:55So with respect to the public washroom and the need for a public washroom,

5:02:00the design responds to the direction that Council provided in September of 2024

5:02:04to incorporate a self-cleaning washroom into phase one of the downtown infrastructure renewal work.

5:02:11So that's what it responds to. We did choose the location within St. George's Square,

5:02:16the southeast corner of the square because it's an area where sort of it's the least programmable.

5:02:22It's sort of tucked to the side of the square. Plus, we know that it is a permanent type

5:02:28structure that's not easily moved. So we've combined it with other permanent structures

5:02:33that we no need to be there, which include the sort of closet or small building that will

5:02:39incorporate the mechanical portions of the family fountain as well as the shade structure or the

5:02:46structure that provides shade for the transit stop that is in that location. So that is why

5:02:54A, we have a public washroom in the square and B, why we've chosen that location in the square.

5:03:01The other components of looking at where you locate a public washroom, as we presented to you

5:03:07last September, is it has to be in an area that's easily visible so users can find it,

5:03:12but also that there's that general amount of natural surveillance that can occur.

5:03:17We do all know that there's sometimes other activities that happen in public washrooms that

5:03:21are not as desirable. And so by having it out in a space that is visible and easily surveilled

5:03:29by people passing by, by law enforcement, by Guelph police, it helps to deter from those

5:03:35other activities that are happening. So those are the reasons behind why we chose the location

5:03:41for that public washroom. As one of the staff could provide other details on issues associated

5:03:46with tendering and so on, I don't know whether that's possible at this point.

5:03:54To Councillor Alton, so yes, as you heard throughout the presentation, you know,

5:03:57key to this work is the state of good repair for the infrastructure, the housing enabling

5:04:00infrastructure, and the need to get that work tendered by this fall. So we're targeting October

5:04:05tender so that we can hit next year's construction season in its fullest. And so any changes to

5:04:10designs are going to need to be considered as we move that tender forward. Anything that comes

5:04:14past that time can be managed, but it does potentially come with added cost premiums.

5:04:20Thank you. Now, I did hear staff say that this is quote only a concept. So the question becomes

5:04:25on such things as bathrooms and any design. I hear that you're saying that the bathrooms are

5:04:32somewhat affixed with other designs as well. What latitude do we have to actually modify those?

5:04:42Through you, Mr. Mayor and Councillor Alton. The location of the washroom is somewhat fixed. I

5:04:47think there's room to sort of tweak and shift it in that general location, particularly when we get

5:04:54the underground infrastructure in place. We don't want to think about putting that in one location

5:05:00and putting the bathroom there and then shifting the location to a new spot entirely and potentially

5:05:05having to rip up our brand new square. So that would be one of the place, one of the elements

5:05:11of the concept that is less flexible to move. Okay, thank you. Moving on from bathrooms. I heard

5:05:18from one delegate that there's concern about removing space for vendors. And I think the

5:05:23reference was to perhaps the hot dog vendors and so on. Are we in fact looking at removing

5:05:30space for vendors from that particular area of St. George's Square?

5:05:37Through you, Mr. Mayor and Councillor Alton. We haven't identified a specific location for a

5:05:42food cart. However, it is something that we do want to include. And when we work through final

5:05:48details and have all of the grading information, that would be when we would consider where that

5:05:52food cart could be located. Because as you can imagine, most food carts need a fairly flat area

5:05:59if they're cooking food. Nobody wants that to roll off the grill. So we are, that is top of mind

5:06:05or in the list of priorities for us to consider where the food cart locations could be in the

5:06:11redesign square. Okay, another question that's a corollary I think was existing patios may not

5:06:17fit design. And I think that's almost self-evident. But I was wondering if you could remark on the

5:06:23long-term viability of patios in that area. Through you, Mr. Mayor and Councillor Alton. Yes. So

5:06:29we haven't included private patios in our concept design. But what we have done is made sure that

5:06:35there is space in front of businesses where there are patios existing today so that those

5:06:41businesses could choose to have a potentially reconfigured patio. Maybe it's a slightly different

5:06:49size. Maybe it's a slightly different configuration. We've used the word could because we didn't want

5:06:54to say will or would because that is a business's choice whether they want to pursue the patio. It's

5:07:00not whether we want to take away that opportunity. It's whether the business chooses to pursue a patio

5:07:05or not. So that is the reasoning behind the word could that we used. And I think the delegate heard

5:07:11could as something that would perhaps prohibit it. Moving on to some of the construction issues.

5:07:19There I think there's only one one-way street in downtown right now. Is there a projection that

5:07:24Douglas Street will be now a two-way street? Through you, Mr. Mayor. During construction,

5:07:33especially when the upper window Mary has worked on, Douglas will have to be made two-way

5:07:39for a period of time and the parking will come out. The anticipation that would go back to one

5:07:44way in the future. Okay thank you. The McDonnell Street lot was made reference to in the presentation.

5:07:51So I'm going to ask the dumb question. Which one? The Parkade, the open lot or is it both?

5:07:58It would be the open lot between Wyndham and Norfolk. Okay thanks. I heard about new unique

5:08:05incentives to come downtown. I'm going to ask about some of the old incentives to come downtown.

5:08:10We have a Christmas parade art on the street, a jazz festival. We also have Guelph's 200th.

5:08:15Are we developing contingencies to ensure that these will be successful over the next few years?

5:08:21Likely elsewhere? Through you Mr. Mayor to Councillor Allt. We have been working with our

5:08:27special events team here at the city to work with our event organizers to think starting last year

5:08:33to think about how their events could be accommodated downtown whether it's and maybe not the exact

5:08:39same location but another location downtown. So we have been starting those conversations thinking

5:08:44about how the events that we have now could still be accommodated downtown. The last question is one

5:08:51about the 24-hour construction. There are people that live downtown. Are we creating contingencies

5:08:58to address residents whose sleep will be disrupting? Through you Mr. Mayor. We don't have specific

5:09:09plans in place for that. However there will be a lot of communications on when they would be used.

5:09:15I don't expect contractors to go 24-7 on a regular basis. It would be as needed to catch up. It's

5:09:22more of a schedule compression tool more than it would be all the time. Thank you very much.

5:09:32Thank you. Councillor Goller and then Busatil. I see you as well, Kate.

5:09:37Karan. I'll put everyone down. Thank you for your worship to staff. Thank you for your presentation

5:09:45and thank you for getting us here. It's exciting to be at this point in the process.

5:09:52My first question is when we say concept, how flexible is that concept? I heard the mentioned

5:09:59when Councillor Lourd asked about the washroom. He said it's pretty much going to be there.

5:10:03So what is their flexibility on and what is their not flexibility on?

5:10:09Through you Mr. Mayor and Councillor Goller. There's flexibility on things like the size of the

5:10:14planters, the location of the planters. We can reduce or shift those types of things. Number

5:10:20of shade structures, number of plaza seating areas. Those are all types of things we can

5:10:24take direction from council today on and make changes. Again, moving into detailed design,

5:10:31that's when we start to pick out the specific, the design of the shade structures. What are the

5:10:35materials for the shade structures and all those types of things. But if there are things today

5:10:40that you'd like moved or reduced or increased, having providing specific direction today would

5:10:46be very helpful and then we can incorporate that into the detailed design. I'll just add to that

5:10:54through the Mayor to Councillor Goller. So in general, anything that you put above ground,

5:10:58we have to think about what is required underground to service it. Anything that goes underground is

5:11:04typically earlier on in your construction cycle. So you'd want to make sure that that's accounted for

5:11:12and put in beforehand. And so when we're talking about the movement, moving of the washrooms,

5:11:18once that servicing is in, there's only so much flexibility that you have. If you don't want the

5:11:25washroom in that location or any washrooms, then we just abandon it. That would be the worst case

5:11:29scenario and that's your money sunk. What we don't want is a situation where we've already started

5:11:35building things and putting things back together and now you want to put something else in and we

5:11:39have to re-dig it. So that's where you start to get some of those increased costs. So again,

5:11:43Stacey at Ms. Lachlan mentioned that the earlier we can get direction on where you might want some

5:11:50of those fundamental elements, the more we can put those into the tender and they won't become

5:11:56change orders afterwards. Okay, perfect. Thank you very much for that clarification.

5:12:02Help me understand why are we moving the fountain? Through you, Mr. Mayor to Councillor Goller,

5:12:09we do have to move the fountain during construction. So it will be removed, stored,

5:12:16and then it will be brought back to the square. So whether we bring it back to the exact same

5:12:21location or move it, the costs will be incurred. The reason that we chose to change the location

5:12:29is because it became clear through community engagement that it's an important part of the

5:12:34square for many, many wall fights. It was mentioned over and over and over that there's an expectation

5:12:39that they see it in the square. So we wanted to highlight the fountain as it is important to many

5:12:46members of our community. So as you drive up Quebec Street, you'll be able to see that fountain and

5:12:50that was why the location, the new location was chosen. Other reasons, when we changed the function

5:12:57of the street, adding the parallel parking and the bike lanes and all of that, it's going to be,

5:13:02it's not going to conflict, but it's going to be very close to where the fountain is today. So putting

5:13:05it right back in the same location is probably not feasible. And finally, when we're thinking

5:13:11about the square and the ability to accommodate events, one of the thoughts was that the westerly

5:13:17side of Wyndham Street, you can easily create, have that space closed for pedestrian use only,

5:13:23still having Wyndham function for things like emergency services or transit, and have a fairly

5:13:29large event on the westerly side. We also are creating opportunities for the entire square to

5:13:34be closed and a pedestrian only space. But the fountain on the westerly side sort of reduces

5:13:40the opportunity for that. So there were all those thoughts and ideas behind changing the location

5:13:45of the fountain. That is very helpful. Thank you. Is there opportunity to improve the quality of the

5:13:54materials for the base of the fountain at this point? Through you, Mr. Miranda, Councillor Goller.

5:14:00So the base materials, I believe, are sort of just poured concrete. So we will have to

5:14:07recreate that base through this process, working with the designers and working with experts on

5:14:14public art. And I don't know if Ms. Evans is here if she wants to jump in, but that is something that

5:14:19it will have to be sort of restored and replaced the basin of the fountain when we relocate.

5:14:24Okay. So to be clear, it doesn't have to be poured concrete. It could be something else

5:14:29when it comes back. I would have to rely on our public art experts on that. But my understanding

5:14:37is that it should be restored in the same way that it exists today. Okay. So if we wanted that to be

5:14:43different, we'd have to give you direction today to consider improved materials.

5:14:49So through the mayor to Councillor Goller, I'll jump in and Ms. Evans, if she thinks she needs to

5:14:53contribute anything, can come down beyond what I'm about to say. So just for the family fountain,

5:14:59is actually a couple of different pieces. It's the original sculpture that was commissioned and

5:15:03done in 1985. And then the frog was added later. But in totality, it exists as a public art entity,

5:15:10as donated by those who raised the funds at the time. And so there's two things that we need to

5:15:18be respectful of. One is that it is an art piece. But the second is that there is an agreement with

5:15:24the donors who donated that sculpture in 1985 and who have expectations in terms of our

5:15:32respecting what it was envisioned to be. And so I do think that there is, that there are both of

5:15:39those really important components. And I would say respecting what the intention of the donors was

5:15:46is something that council needs to be very conscious of, because it was something that was

5:15:51designed to appear the way that it does. And those donors, there were specific agreements

5:15:57when the city agreed to take that into our public art collection.

5:16:01That is helpful. Thank you. Is there a way for us to find a way to increase the programmable

5:16:08space? So we mentioned moving planters around. Do you need direction today to actually have

5:16:14more programmable space, more open space for things like patios, for events, for concerts?

5:16:19And you mentioned that there are businesses that today have patios. What about the business

5:16:25that opens up next year, the new restaurant that replaces one of the storefronts?

5:16:33Through Mr. Miranda, Councillor Goller, certainly if Council wishes for there to be more open space

5:16:37or programmable space, we're happy to take that motion or that direction from Council. And then

5:16:42through the detailed design, revive the plan or refine it to provide that.

5:16:47Okay. Thank you very much. My last question on this is the focal point

5:16:55that the DGBA put in that part and it's gotten a lot of love over the last few months since it went

5:17:01up. Is there an opportunity to put something else that will really become a focal point of the

5:17:08downtown? Through you, Mr. Mayor. So there's opportunities for sure. So from where we are

5:17:17now at the concept plan to detailed design, I would say that's kind of where we get into

5:17:22those fun details. Identifying where there's public art or how we're going to sort of honor the

5:17:29indigenous history of the lands and that opportunity for the wow factor that maybe you

5:17:35was talked about. One of the ideas for the play area was is that some sort of a almost more like

5:17:43public art? Is it some sort of public installation that can also be climbed on, can provide that

5:17:48opportunity for play without looking like a traditional play structure? The idea is being

5:17:53considered as a chickadee because the black cap chickadee is our bird, the qualf's birds. So those

5:17:59types of things. So I think there are opportunities for sure to include public art or those focal

5:18:05points or those types of things as we move from the concept to the detailed design. And I guess I

5:18:10would always add subject to budget implications. Of course. And will that detailed design be coming

5:18:17back to us or for public engagement? Through you, Mr. Mayor, the detailed design is not

5:18:25planning to come back to council. It will go out for public engagement. We are aiming to go out

5:18:32this fall for engagement on sort of the 90% design for Windham Street. And we are hoping to

5:18:39include things like tactical urbanism so that people can understand the components of the square,

5:18:46see things, feel things, touch things when we do that engagement in the fall. Okay. Okay.

5:18:52Through you, Roshan, my last question. Why are we including a playground in this space?

5:19:00Through you, Mr. Mayor. So we did hear overwhelmingly through our community engagement,

5:19:05whether it was at pop-up events. So when we were at things like Ribvest or street festivals and

5:19:12those types of things, that people wanted opportunities for play in the square. At our public open

5:19:18houses, we did hear it's important to have places for children to do things. And we want to think

5:19:24about this play area or playground, not so much as like your traditional neighborhood park, but

5:19:29again, that opportunity for something that looks pretty cool in the square. The rubberized surface

5:19:35is again, reducing risk in case of falls. We can explore different colors for that to make sure

5:19:41that it's not sort of so out of character with the rest of the square. If those were the types of

5:19:46things, we can explore the shape and the size of that area for play. But again, based on what we

5:19:54heard from the community at every single event, that is why we included the play area in the square.

5:20:01Thank you for that, Your Worship. There are some motions I'd like to move. I don't know if it now is

5:20:07the time. Okay. Separate motions, Councillor, or are they amendments to what's on the floor?

5:20:14They are separate motions. So maybe once we approve these, but without those motions,

5:20:19I would not be supportive of motion three to support the...

5:20:24If it's okay with you, why don't I go through... I have three more on my list for questions.

5:20:31Four, do I hear five? And when I get the questions out of the way, then before we go to do any voting,

5:20:39I'll come back to you to decide whether we split them all out, vote them on differently,

5:20:44amendments, additions. Is that okay? Okay. So we'll just stick with questions, but I promise

5:20:49I'll come back to you for anything that comes out for more motions. So I've got to go to Boussatil

5:20:56and then Kate and then Koran and then Richardson. Thank you. And through the mayor, thank you for

5:21:02the presentation. Some similar questions to Councillor Rodrigo Gowler. The playground, is this

5:21:10dedicated park space, park land? I know you said it's not a neighborhood park.

5:21:17What is it? Through you, Mr. Mayor. No, it's not like park land dedication, because it is already

5:21:24a public square. So in our downtown, we think of park land more as urban squares. So it is...

5:21:32The whole urban square is just that, an urban square. And this is just one element within the

5:21:37square itself. Thank you. And that leads into my second question, is just from the experience of

5:21:42City Toronto, urban buildup in, you know, infilling and then realizing there was no space for pets,

5:21:49for dogs, things like that. And they created on Front Street the dog fountain next to the

5:21:55flat iron building and so on. What kinds of consideration, because we're going to have

5:22:00intensification downtown, people are going to have pets and so on, what kinds of consideration

5:22:05in the squares and the spaces have been considered? Through you, Mr. Mayor. We did think about

5:22:14people with dogs downtown. And that was one of the, specifically one of the reasons why we didn't

5:22:20include a lawn area or turf area in the square. As has been mentioned many times, the real estate

5:22:26that's available in the square is tight, especially when we want to accommodate all of these things.

5:22:33So we don't believe that St. George's Square is the appropriate place for you to bring your dog

5:22:40to relieve themselves or play. And that we have other opportunities sort of closer to the edges

5:22:46of downtown, where that would be more appropriate. Thank you. My other question is about the sculpture,

5:22:53you know, the wow, the focal point. Was there any consideration to, in addition to what exists

5:22:58right now, having non-permanent rotating art? And again, you know, I think about the waterfall at

5:23:05Church and King Street, you know, it's a permanent installation and then they've got a rotating,

5:23:10you know, honoring different artists and things like that. Was there any consideration of that?

5:23:17Through you, Mr. Mayor, discussion about public art is the next phase. So establishing the concept

5:23:24for the square and then into the next stage in terms of detailed design and then finding budget

5:23:29for public art is the next, is the next phase. So yes, we've had preliminary conversations about

5:23:36how public art might be incorporated into the space, but any details, we haven't had those

5:23:41conversations yet. Thank you. My last question, I know DCAO Holmes answered this in the last

5:23:46presentation, but you know, the amount of detail design that's gone into the streets

5:23:53escape and the improvements and the upgrading of the sidewalks, you know, making it easier for

5:23:59people to get around. My question again, and I need to hear it again, is will there be made

5:24:04intentional efforts to improve accessibility for, you know, as part of the older adult strategy,

5:24:10as part of accessibility, where reasonable, you know, grades and so on, you know, the grading

5:24:16to the one step that can you just again, I need to hear it again, please.

5:24:22Through you, Mr. Mayor, yes. So similar to how we've treated the proposed streetscape for Windham

5:24:28Street, we are proposing those flat curbs. So to reduce the number of steps, we are also dealing

5:24:34with the grade that falls across the square actually in two different directions. So one of the

5:24:38things that the designers have been working with is trying to make sure that grade creates as many

5:24:43as flat spaces and deal with that grade in a way that is accessible. So certainly we are looking

5:24:48at that. And then in terms of places to sort of rest, if you need a place to stop and rest,

5:24:54that has been top of mind for us, like both through formal seating and informal seating

5:24:59opportunities as we design the square. Thank you. My final similar theme is it is the municipality's

5:25:06responsibility as the sidewalk, not the front entrance of a building. Can you just clarify,

5:25:12where do we stop in terms of our design and our responsibility?

5:25:18Through you, Mr. Mayor, in downtown that is a sort of complicated situation.

5:25:23The true answer is at the property line. And sometimes that is right at the building face.

5:25:28Sometimes it's a little off. For the most part, it's building face to building face. It would

5:25:32be the general answer in a lot of our downtown areas. Thank you. That's all, Mr. Mayor.

5:25:39Great. Thank you. And I'm going to go to Karan, then Kate, then Richardson.

5:25:48Thanks. Actually, I think most of my questions have been addressed. It was about event space.

5:25:57I don't want to get too specific, but I did hear that that alternate locations are being

5:26:03considered for the bicentennial given the timing of the construction. Yet this is the most

5:26:10significant largest civic event that we will ever be having for another 100 years when we're all

5:26:17long gone. And I look back at previous events and they've all been held downtown. I'd appreciate a

5:26:24few more details about what can be accommodated and what kind of civic space. I know it's not

5:26:31specifically related to this project, but I just need to hear that there's an equivalent civic

5:26:37space that can accommodate large events that would be considered. So through the Mayor to

5:26:45Councillor Caron, we're certainly in just in the conversations about what the bicentennial will

5:26:50look like. But specifically, Market Square is a space that we would still look to use through

5:26:56the construction period, as well as our other civic spaces, both in the downtown core,

5:27:01as well as other park spaces. So I think we're looking at a mix for the bicentennial of

5:27:08larger events where we would use some of those civic spaces and also smaller scale community

5:27:12events that we could do throughout the city. But we do have a number of facilities and we want to

5:27:19look to activate Market Square throughout the construction period, including for the bicentennial,

5:27:24because we want to continue to support the downtown and encourage people to come downtown.

5:27:28And so Market Square is, I would say, probably the best option that we have right in the

5:27:33downtown core through this time period. Okay, thanks. So St. George's Square and Market Square,

5:27:41in our downtown secondary plan, we have modeled a pedestrian alley to link the two squares together

5:27:48through that central kind of open space that is currently parking lots. Can I assume by this plan

5:27:55that that idea, that concept is now gone. It's been completely eliminated from the conversation.

5:28:07Through you, Mr. Mayor to Councillor Caron, that is not a concept that we're pursuing with

5:28:12Wyndham Street reconstruction. I think there might be opportunity to look at it in the future,

5:28:17but I think there are challenges with it in terms of property ownership and those types of things.

5:28:21But because phase one deals with Wyndham Street specifically, we haven't dealt with those details.

5:28:29Okay. Third question is, I know we debated a lot all the different types of tree options and tree

5:28:37survival was a huge concern of council when we talked about good, better, best. Do you remember

5:28:42all those exercises of tree wells? I understand that that's more of the design phase and as Ms. Holmes

5:28:51underlined that the infrastructure underground will determine the kind of infrastructure we can

5:28:57put above ground. Can you talk about where we landed on the trees? Certainly through you, Mr.

5:29:09Mayor to Councillor Caron. We are proposing a combination of the large planters as well as

5:29:15soil cells throughout phase one in order to be able to get the appropriate soil volume for trees

5:29:21to grow large. So it's going to be a combination and when you see when we're ready for the 90%

5:29:27drawings, you'll see that combination of approaches to trees. Great. Thanks. And then my last is a

5:29:35comment, not a question. Absolutely our delegates were spot on about downtown being a place to

5:29:42draw people to support business. But downtown is also a place where people live and it's a

5:29:49neighborhood and it's a community outside of the business function. And so I wholeheartedly support

5:29:57the bringing children downtown and having a place structure. We want families not just to come to

5:30:03shop and to eat and dine, but families to live downtown and I think the idea of bringing a place

5:30:10structure into that space is brilliant. So thanks very much. Thank you. Kate, please.

5:30:20Thank you through you, Mr. Mayor. First off, I wanted to say I love it. I think it's really

5:30:25great. I hadn't considered moving the fountain initially, but I think that was a good idea.

5:30:33I agree with Councillor Caron statement like we want to downtown be family friendly, families

5:30:38contain children and people are going to be living downtown. I know that when my daughter was smaller,

5:30:45I would specifically choose to shop at places that had options for her to play and I wouldn't be

5:30:51dragging her to the splash plaid to go back into stores afterwards when she was soaked. So it would

5:30:57be great to have a non wet option for children in the downtown. Do we have any projections on

5:31:04families and children with the amount of potential residences that might end up living downtown?

5:31:12Through you, Mr. Mayor, to Councillor Caton, I don't know that we have specific projections or I

5:31:18don't certainly have them at my fingertips. I can check in with our planning staff and

5:31:23whether they've made any predictions or understanding what we know about the future or what we can

5:31:31guess about the future, we can check and send that information back to you by email if we have it.

5:31:37Thank you. Mr. Mayor, I too have an addition or amendment or however you'd like to

5:31:44set it up. So when you're going around to that, please let me know.

5:31:48Yeah, for sure. I'll go to Guller and then after that, right to you. Okay.

5:31:51Thank you.

5:31:52Yep. Richardson.

5:31:56Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor, and I'm going back to the washroom thing.

5:32:01One of our delegates did speak that there was going to be a number of washrooms in the new

5:32:05library and if we have a number of washrooms in the library and a number of washrooms at our

5:32:09social services buildings and in the Quebec Street Mall, do we actually need another washroom

5:32:14downtown? So I'd just like your opinion on that.

5:32:17Through you, Mr. Mayor, to Councillor Richardson, when we came forward last September with the

5:32:23report on public washrooms in Guelph, the research that we did with Guelph Lab definitely concluded

5:32:30that yes, we need a public washroom that's accessible 24 hours a day, seven days a week

5:32:36in downtown. So it was based on that information and that research that Council included the

5:32:42direction to have a public washroom in phase one of downtown infrastructure. Thank you.

5:32:50Thank you. Billings.

5:32:54Through you, Mr. Mayor, I did want to go over the fountain location again because you mentioned

5:33:01that there's not enough space where it currently is located. Well, is the concept plan to scale?

5:33:07Because it looks like there is enough space. I mean, you're saying that's a large event space,

5:33:14but yet it can't hold a fountain. So when I look at the concept plan, there is room to leave the

5:33:20fountain where it currently is. So I don't understand your comment that there's no space.

5:33:27Through you, Mr. Mayor, to clarify for you, Council Billings, I didn't say there wasn't

5:33:30enough space for it to stay there. What I did say was that with the new layout of the road,

5:33:35which will include one lane of traffic in each direction, parallel parking,

5:33:39bike paths, furnishing zone, those get located very close to the existing location of the fountain.

5:33:48And then the other component of that is if we wanted to create the westerly side of Windham

5:33:56Street as an area for larger events, with having that in its current location inhibits that ability.

5:34:04So there is room there if you want to change how we're proposing that the square functions.

5:34:12Okay. And then through you, Mr. Mayor, timing of construction. So originally, when we all heard

5:34:19it was going to be 26, 27 for Windham Street, I wasn't woo-hoo because of the bicentennial.

5:34:26And then later on in our agenda, we have the bid for the Memorial Cup, which is 2027.

5:34:33So wasn't that long ago, we were thinking the construction downtown on Windham was going to

5:34:39take a very long time and Council decided to shorten it. So even though I think your answer

5:34:45is going to be no, is it possible instead of doing the construction on Windham 2627 to push it

5:34:54back after the bicentennial? And maybe if we win the bid for the Memorial Cup?

5:35:05Through the Mayor to Councillor Billings. No, that is not possible.

5:35:09That's totally unfortunate.

5:35:11Okay. What about the timing then with during the presentation when Reg was talking about,

5:35:20okay, so Windham is going to start then the, so I'm not talking 2026 on the lower portion,

5:35:27but north of St. George's Square. Most of the construction is then starting north of

5:35:34St. George's Square, or you're going to rip up all of Windham, and then the major construction is

5:35:40north of St. George's Square. Can you just help me out? Meaning, is there any opportunity to have

5:35:48the south of St. George's Square not under construction with respect to the bicentennial?

5:35:59Through you, Mr. Mayor. There's going to be significant scheduling issues to have the

5:36:06the square or south open for the summer of 2027. It's not impossible, but we'd have to

5:36:16create the right costs and incentives to the contractor to make it happen. It will come with

5:36:21a premium. Right now we're approaching it as a flexible opportunity for the contractor to plan

5:36:28their work accordingly. We have given them the opportunity to work on Windham Street

5:36:33throughout 26 and 27, saving except not start not closing upper Windham until September 2026.

5:36:42Within that timeframe, we're offering incentives to them to minimize their road occupancy space,

5:36:50but we haven't dictated anything to them. If we do wish to dictate something to them and make

5:36:55something happen, that comes with a cost and may or may not be feasible, depending on how far

5:37:01long we want the road to get. I do expect streetscaping to carry on well into 2027.

5:37:10Okay, and then I still want to go through you, Mr. Mayor, back to Mr. Gamer with respect to,

5:37:15but what if the construction didn't start on Windham until, say, August 2027? Is that not an option?

5:37:26Yeah, through the mayor and the council of billings. One of the main reasons I'm saying it's not an

5:37:30option is because the state of good repair aspects and housing aspects. So the infrastructure is

5:37:35way past due. The risks are substantial with the passage of time. So from a professional

5:37:40engineering perspective, it needs to be replaced as soon as possible. We've been working for several

5:37:46years to align everything as much as possible. And the sequence in order of events is outlined in

5:37:52that very detailed capital implementation plan. And so I would just say we're well past the idea of

5:37:59making adjustments to that. Okay, because I was only asking for a pushback of a year.

5:38:06Okay, also the concern which I heard from downtown was the construction, staging location

5:38:15at St. George's Square. Is it not possible to move that? Maybe even to the parking lot

5:38:25that Councillor Corm is talking about, like in order to keep Quebec there and Windham open?

5:38:37Through you, Mr. Mayor. One of the benefits or one of the ways that we can expedite construction

5:38:43is by having that staging in St. George's Square. So it keeps the materials there.

5:38:48If we move the staging area to a different location, we can't guarantee that we're going to meet

5:38:53that expedited construction schedule. It will be, we will work with the contractor when we have them

5:39:00on board to sort of see if we can reduce the impact of the construction staging on the square.

5:39:04But right now we want to provide that flexibility so that we can do construction quickly, so that

5:39:10we can have materials there so they're not delays with not having materials and all of those types

5:39:15of things. I'm not sure which other area you were talking about where we could have construction

5:39:21staging, but if it's the MacDenell lot, that's where we're thinking about having the complementary

5:39:26parking to offset Windham, but also where we can have deliveries and those types of things.

5:39:31No, it was further up Windham. That's that's where I was thinking, like any other location

5:39:38north of St. George's Square, if there was a location there for the staging

5:39:44so that we could keep that that intersection open. The, I think you're referring to the area that was

5:39:49formerly the Windham Street parking lot, and that is part of Baker District, so not currently an option.

5:39:55Not an option at all. Like there's no other location. This is what you're saying.

5:40:07As we were saying, we're trying to give the contractor the most flexibility and reduce our costs.

5:40:14We got to give them opportunity to use the square for staging so that they can plan their works and

5:40:19means to make that happen. One of the incentives we are going to use is a occupancy space. They will

5:40:27essentially rent the square from us. So on a square meter basis, and that will be their incentive

5:40:35to minimize the amount of space they're using in the square. So if they feel it's worth it to them

5:40:43to use that square for staging, they will pay that fee. If they don't feel it's worth to them,

5:40:49they will just shrink their amount of fencing they put up, and that space then is available to

5:40:57for the public's use up until when the contractor needs to actually undertake the reconstruction of that area.

5:41:04Okay, and then last question to you, Mr. Mayor, the mitigation plan.

5:41:08So we have the McDonnell parking location, but what about Market Square? So there was a bullet

5:41:16point, oh well, you'll look at other alternatives. Well, why not Market Square? If we're going to have

5:41:20more events in this timeframe with respect to Cardin Street, why don't we just state Market

5:41:26Square as well? Parking.

5:41:29Through you, Mr. Mayor and Councillor Billings, other alternatives that we were looking at were

5:41:35other parking structures or parking lots that we currently have. So if we can provide parking in

5:41:42Market Parkade, not Market Square, that's one of the things that we would.

5:41:47I meant Market Square, Parkade.

5:41:50Certainly that is one of the options that we are looking at. We have heard from the community and

5:41:56the business community that options that are further north would be desirable to look at,

5:42:01because that's sort of the north, northly part of downtown, maybe doesn't have as much parking

5:42:05available when we take the on-tree parking off Wyndham. So that's why we're still exploring

5:42:10other options. And again, it is a budget implication in terms of the construction mitigation

5:42:15budget for this project and offsetting lost revenue for parking operations.

5:42:24Okay, thanks.

5:42:28Okay, I thought it was it for the list. I just ask a couple of questions myself and then we can

5:42:34come back to you, Councillor Gower, and I haven't forgotten about you, Councillor Caton either.

5:42:41I really need to understand the clarity around the wow factor. I guess we'll call it that.

5:42:48So is the wow factor being decided today, or is the wow factor coming with the detailed design

5:42:59work that's coming later? To you, Mr. Mayor, I would suggest that the wow factor comes with

5:43:07all of those details when we get to the detailed design. Like what are the shade structures going

5:43:11to look like? What's the visual impact that all of that's going to have? Now, if you were looking

5:43:16for a wow factor of a huge new monument or something equivalent to like the family fountain,

5:43:22that would have to come today if Council was looking for something like that.

5:43:26But I think the way that we move from concept to detailed design and final design, that's where

5:43:32you're going to really see the elements of the square kind of pop and give you that wow.

5:43:37Okay. I'm just wondering about the flexibility question of the entire area.

5:43:47And I've seen in some other cities where they have the planters and the benches and such,

5:43:54which we certainly want, but they're actually movable. So you know how we have those big,

5:44:03huge planting gray pots and you can still get some pretty big trees from there.

5:44:10Are we, when we look at the concept design that you've provided in this report and the fly-through,

5:44:17are you suggesting that a lot of those areas where there's flowers and trees and stuff like that,

5:44:27that those will always be permanent? Or can some of those be changed so that they are movable?

5:44:35So that you can actually remove three or four of them and all of a sudden you have a massive

5:44:41space. You can push them to the perimeter and you have a massive space for events and you can kind

5:44:46of push them back. Just wondering how flexible the planter positions are. To you, Mr. Mayor,

5:44:53there are a combination of planters. So there are some smaller that would be movable. However,

5:44:58probably the larger ones that have sort of are more natural shaped, those would be permanent.

5:45:04And in order to get the soil volume that you need to grow the larger trees, which was one of

5:45:11Council's desires, we need them to be large and they would not be movable. If they are trees that

5:45:18have the underground component like the soil cell component, they are also not movable. So in the

5:45:24concept there is a combination. The smaller planters are more for like plants and flowers and those

5:45:30types of things and they would be movable. If the larger planters are something that you're interested

5:45:36we did note in the report that one of the comments was can we streamline them or

5:45:40you know create more open space. So that is one thing that we are already looking at through

5:45:44detailed design. Whether we sort of modify the shape or sort of pull them a bit more to the

5:45:49edges, that is one thing that we are already looking to do through detailed design.

5:45:54Okay. So that would be the next phase. Okay. Okay.

5:46:04I guess I'm asking a question that's maybe out of sync because maybe it's the detailed design part,

5:46:09but you said you're not coming back to Council. So I'm just just wondering, it's never been

5:46:14mentioned kind of out loud here, but one of the things that I heard a lot about was the crown,

5:46:21the crown that used to be in St. George's Square. Is there any throwback to

5:46:29to a crown that could ever come back to St. George's Square?

5:46:34To you Mr. Mayor, it was mentioned a few times through community engagement about the crown.

5:46:39It is not a direction that we have proposed to take in terms of bringing back the crown,

5:46:45certainly not hanging over the intersection or anything like that.

5:46:50One of the considerations is that as we think about

5:46:54honoring the indigenous history of the lands, that may or may not be seen as being in conflict

5:47:00with it. So that's a consideration for us as well. Okay. There's differences of opinion on that from

5:47:06many members, so that's fine. Okay. And on the bathroom side of things, other than the standalone

5:47:16proposed infrastructure, is there a also an opportunity for other avenues or other exploring

5:47:25other opportunities for bathrooms that staff would ever be willing to undertake if something became

5:47:32available? To you Mr. Mayor, absolutely. And I think that was part of Council's direction last

5:47:37September to continue to look for other opportunities as well. So this would be one opportunity should

5:47:43Council continue to decide that we want it in the square, but we would continue to look

5:47:48at other opportunities through future phases of downtown infrastructure, but also just as a matter

5:47:53of good practice. Okay. Thank you. And finally, I just wouldn't mind hearing it out loud here. What

5:48:00is the problem with coming back to Council with the detailed design elements? You're going out to

5:48:10the public, you're doing the engagement, no one's pushing back on that, but you're going to come to

5:48:16some conclusion on the wow factor of the detailed design, but it's not coming back to us. So just

5:48:24wondering what's the what would be the issue of process if that were to come back to Council?

5:48:32To you Mr. Mayor, it is essentially one of timing for us to tender this project in October.

5:48:39We would need to be back to you in September and if we were going to be to you in September,

5:48:44we would need to be writing that report right now. We are happy to keep Council informed,

5:48:50to share information with Council and invite you to come out to our public engagement or share

5:48:56that same information with you at the same time, which is something that we typically do. But in

5:49:00terms of meeting Council report timelines, we wouldn't be able to make the October tender.

5:49:07So the risk there is that if we have to add it on as a change order, we are talking about probably

5:49:14increases to the budget for that. So there wouldn't be any option of Council saying,

5:49:20look, we would allow you to skip the Committee of the Whole in September, but we would like to see

5:49:26something to us at the Council meeting in September. That's not doable between today and the end of

5:49:33September for something like that. To you Mr. Mayor, if you would like us to come back,

5:49:41that's just time that we are spending putting a report together to come back to Council and to

5:49:46what end. If we are going to be contemplating changes at that Council meeting again, that puts

5:49:51us in a spot where we are going to be getting behind on the tender documents. And I can't

5:49:59express enough how important it is for us if you want us to meet those timelines associated with

5:50:05getting the work done in the downtown that we get that tender out in October. And the more we can

5:50:10get in that tender, the better the pricing is going to be, the less uncertainty there will be for

5:50:15the contractor, and the better off we'll be in terms of trying to get that project underway. So

5:50:22there are implications not only with the construction schedule, but as you heard, there's other reasons

5:50:27why we're doing the work as soon as we can is also because we've got state of good repair issues

5:50:33with some of the servicing in the downtown that we have to address sooner rather than later. So

5:50:40anyway, so I think we were trying to come up with a way of being able to go back out to the public

5:50:45for the wow factor, the detailed design part that we would be able to, that you would trust that we

5:50:52would try to address all your concerns the best that we can. As you've heard, there's lots of

5:50:56different opinions about what makes sense for the downtown, what people like, what people don't like.

5:51:02And we're, as we always do, we try to take all of that into account when we're coming up with the

5:51:08final design. Okay, I appreciate that. Okay, well, we have the regular motions already tabled,

5:51:17and I promise that I would go to Councillor Goller first. So, Councillor Goller, I'll let you explain

5:51:23kind of how you want to walk us through. I think you've run it by staff, so go ahead.

5:51:27Thank you through your worship. And my wardmate, Councillor LaCosta, has put in a lot of work

5:51:35working with staff on these motions, listening to the DGBA and to many of our ward two constituents

5:51:41that have written to us. I'd like to move the following as amendments to motion number three.

5:51:48And I'll ask the clerk to please bring those up on the screen.

5:51:54So, once again, these are amendments to item number three, which is to approve the design

5:52:01for St. George's Square. The first one is that staff be directed to include flexibility

5:52:05in the design of St. George's Square to allow for present and future seasonal patios and community

5:52:11events, including by not limited to considering that side furniture such as benches, chairs,

5:52:17waste receptacles are designed and located to allow for easy reconfiguration or temporary removal

5:52:23to accommodate different uses and events. Number two, that staff be directed to integrate more

5:52:28natural materials and design elements that reflect the heritage and character of our

5:52:33downtown into the final design of St. George's Square, including by not limited to the use of

5:52:37stone, wood, other natural finishes were feasible, including the use of limestone in the city's

5:52:44salvage material storage. Also, to incorporate the heritage inspired features such as signage

5:52:50of arch that shares local history and indigenous stories, gateway features such as low stone

5:52:56walls or planters that tie the space to the downtown's historical context, planting and

5:53:01landscaping with native species that soften the surfaces, brick or stone paving patterns that

5:53:06reflect traditional streetscape. And number three, that staff provide council with final design updates,

5:53:15which include a new main design image that can be used when sharing and telling the good news

5:53:19story about the redesign of our downtown and present the design details through future public

5:53:25engagement and online resources before the end of 2025. Number four, that staff report back on

5:53:31budget impact if applicable associated with clauses one and two via either the 2026 budget monitoring

5:53:37process or the 2027 budget update. Can I ask for a second there on these motions? Okay, Richardson,

5:53:47thank you. All right, so what we're going to do is we're going to come back to number one and number

5:53:53two. We're going to just deal with the amendment on number three that's been tabled right now,

5:53:58which is what you just outlined. Okay, is there any questions on the amendments? So sticking

5:54:05only to the amendments, okay? Alt and then Kate. Just a point of privilege. I was wondering if I

5:54:10could please have that up on screen. That was a multiple. Could we vote on these separately? I think

5:54:37I'm probably in favor of them all, but this is such a big beautiful bill, as said down south,

5:54:45that I think I want to be careful. Oh, man, I was going to say something funny there, right?

5:54:52All right, so I will go, oh, sorry, Kate, Kate had a question. Sorry, go ahead, Councillor Kate.

5:55:00I was going to ask the same thing that Councillor L just did. So, okay, perfect.

5:55:04All right, so throw those back up on the screen there for me clerks and

5:55:11I will go through each one. Okay, so I'm going to call the question on one, which includes 1A,

5:55:20and I'll do that now. So, is there anyone against that? Okay, nope.

5:55:29I have ordered, Mr. Mayor, if you don't mind. Sure, go ahead.

5:55:32Just have a question of staff on these motions. I believe they're in order. I just, it seems like

5:55:40Council is giving direction on the detail design. I thought we were working on a concept plan here.

5:55:46Seems very detail oriented on what Council expects to see and I would expect those inputs to come from

5:55:53the public as well. So, I don't want Council to be speaking over what staff might hear from the public.

5:56:02When we go into detail design saying, well, Council's already given us direction on all these things

5:56:06because there's a lot of direction here and there's a lot of detail. So, I just wanted to

5:56:10make sure we're complimenting staff's work on public engagement. If these motions could come forward as

5:56:17Council desires or, as I said, Council input or, but I don't want this to be,

5:56:23I don't want this to be a fixed motion whereby Council staff have no flexibility when it comes to

5:56:27public engagement. So, I don't know if that's a question of staff or if that's a question of whether

5:56:37or not these motions need to be changed, the language to, as it's input from Council, but not

5:56:42direction from Council. All right. Thank you. Okay. Let me just control and manage what's happening

5:56:52right here. Okay. So, we were right in the middle of a vote. I didn't call the vote as past or not.

5:57:01So, you cut me off just at the right time. So, let me go to staff to answer your question. I think

5:57:10that's the best point of what we should do right now. How is staff viewing these directions,

5:57:18because that's what they are, at this time compared to or versus the detailed design

5:57:25stuff that's coming in the fall that's DC talked about.

5:57:29To you, Mr. Mayor. So, these are the kind of things we would be looking at anyway as we go

5:57:35forward in detailed design. I take Council Gibson's point with directed, the word directed,

5:57:41because we are taking input from the public as well. So, we would take this as input as long,

5:57:49along with the direction, some of the input that we got from the public as well. So, perhaps

5:57:54just reflecting on what Council Gibson said, perhaps the word directed might be a bit strong.

5:58:01Yeah. So, instead, you would rather have it as

5:58:06staff consider including flexibility in the design. I'm just making it up as I go here,

5:58:14but instead of direct, it's consider that staff consider this, that staff consider that.

5:58:19Is that what you're saying? Through you, Mr. Mayor. That makes sense. Yes.

5:58:23Okay. Sorry, Council Gibson, you have the floor. Just a friendly amendment to the mover.

5:58:27Just swap the words from clause one and two to maybe be encouraged,

5:58:32that staff be encouraged to include, that staff be encouraged to integrate.

5:58:36That just, that leaves the space for the public to have their input and it's not a formal direction

5:58:41of Council, but it's an encouragement. I don't know if that's something that the mover would

5:58:46need. I would need someone to second use it. Okay. I heard lots of people come together here.

5:58:53I'm going to pick Bousatil. I know there's lots, but Bousatil, because she's lonely over there,

5:58:58everybody. She's sitting all by herself on this side of the room. So, I'm going to let her do

5:59:02the second error for, so we are amending an amendment. Just remember everyone, we can't go

5:59:08further than that. Okay. So, we have an amendment on the floor to amend the amendment and it

5:59:15basically will structure the wording to substitute some of the wording of direction to encourage.

5:59:22It's so I'm just looking to make, so I'm just looking to clerks to make sure they've captured

5:59:26that and Council Gibson, I'm so sorry, you have the floor. Go ahead. I cut you off.

5:59:31I think it captures the, the essence I was talking about if you just take the word direct,

5:59:36direct it out and put in the word encouraged. That'll, that just creates the space for everyone

5:59:41to get along and give the room. Okay. And so, I'm just waiting for clerks just to validate that and

5:59:50maybe I can hear from them. Yes, Mr. Mayor. We've got that ready to be changed. Should,

5:59:56should the amendment pass? Sure. Yep. And so, here's the new wording everybody.

6:00:06So, that staff be encouraged to include, etc., etc. Consider the site furniture or such as,

6:00:13and then number two, that's that be encouraged and a to a and b is all flowing from the words

6:00:22encouraged. And what's number three there that staff provide Council with file design updates?

6:00:31I'm sorry, it's cut off because of the wording and these things are gone. So, I can't see the

6:00:35bottom. Can the clerks read out what the bottom is? The clause three, Mr. Mayor reads that staff

6:00:40provide Council with final design updates, including a new main design image that can be

6:00:44used when sharing and telling the good news story about the redesign of our downtown

6:00:48and present design details through future public engagement and online resources before the end

6:00:52of 2025. And then the clause four that staff report back on budget impacts, if applicable,

6:00:57associated with clauses one and two by either the 2026 budget monitoring process or the 2027

6:01:04budget update. Okay. Thank you. So, what I'll do is I'll just ask if there's any questions now

6:01:12of council just on the amendment of the amendment to the word and to the word changes of encouraged.

6:01:18So, anyone have questions on that? Councillor Coller, I encourage you to ask some questions.

6:01:23Comments allowed, your worship. Okay. I encourage my council colleagues not to support this.

6:01:29This is the last opportunity for Wolf City Council to move motions on this because we will not have

6:01:35this come back to us for the decision. I've listened to my constituents. I've listened to the downtown

6:01:42Wolf Business Association. I further concerns about the lack of dedicated, flexible space.

6:01:49When we say we're encouraging staff, that could come or go and it will be taken

6:01:55along with every other bit of feedback that we get. This, I believe, is what we should be doing at

6:02:03this point, given direction for there to be flexibility so that we can ensure that this

6:02:09could be used for a concert, for a festival downtown, for the Wolf Jazz Festival, for other events.

6:02:17If staff are encouraged to consider, they may feel that other feedback provided by the public

6:02:24trumps this feedback. So, that is why I would ask that we give direction rather than encourage at

6:02:30this point. Okay. So, just before I call the vote on the amendment, because I just want to try to

6:02:36bring us together, I don't want to be pitting people over the words and stuff. I want us to try to

6:02:41unite. So, I heard from Stacey that in regards to this whole thing, that it is kind of the work that

6:02:52you were doing anyways. I'm sorry, I don't mean to dumb it down that way, but can you just confirm

6:02:59for that, that you're taking Council's encouragement seriously, even though the word

6:03:06direction isn't there, and that it's embedded in your work plans, and probably what the outcomes are

6:03:11going to be regardless. But I don't want to put words in your mouth. I think it's important

6:03:16that we hear from staff that what you are actually going to maybe follow through on,

6:03:21whether this was tabled or not. To you, Mr. Mayor, we would absolutely be taking Council's

6:03:29encouragement seriously. We have outlined in the report that one of the things that we are doing

6:03:35between now and the detail design is looking to streamline the size and location of those planters

6:03:40to create more open space. So, it does say in the report that we are doing that already. So,

6:03:46whether the word is encouraged or directed in this motion, it is something that we are doing already.

6:03:53Well, thank you. Okay, Councillor Gauri, I'm circling now. I'll give you the floor,

6:03:58but then I want to call the votes. Okay, go ahead. Thank you through your worship. Before,

6:04:01and our questions and answers, I was told by staff that Council needed to give direction at this point

6:04:07if we wanted to have flexibility for future restaurants to have patios or for future

6:04:13events to happen in the downtown. And without this explicit direction,

6:04:17that I mean, that's what I heard maybe half an hour ago that they were looking for. Now,

6:04:22we're given an encouragement instead of a direction. So, that's my concern.

6:04:28I'm just going to go back to staff because I don't think Councillor Gauri is wrong. I think I

6:04:33heard a little bit of that too. In fact, when I had a discussion with you guys yesterday,

6:04:37I heard that the moment to give direction was today. So, can you just kind of make everyone

6:04:43feel comfortable then about where we're sort of hearing some of the differences in that before

6:04:49we take the final vote? Yeah, I think to you, Mr. Mayor, I think being specific about what Council

6:04:55wants to see, that was what we meant by providing clear direction, whether the word is direct or

6:05:01encourage. We are going to take it seriously and consider it through the detailed design process

6:05:07so it was being clear about what Council wants to see. That's what we'd like today from you,

6:05:14so that we can take it away, do that work and get to that end date. Okay. So, with that, I think

6:05:21I'd like to just call the vote. I'm just going to say a very quick comment here. We can get bogged

6:05:26down with these words. I am trusting staff that they are taking this seriously, whether the word

6:05:32is direct or encourage. I also know that we can also talk about this at the end of the month if we

6:05:37have to, but I just think this would be, this is such a large project for us. I feel like it'd be

6:05:44very nice if we could sort of had some sort of sense of unity around some of these things as we

6:05:49move forward around this. So, I prefer direct myself, but for the sake of sort of unity around it,

6:05:57I'm going to just say, let's go with the word encourage because I want as much as a strong

6:06:03vote of that and confidence in staff that they're taking that direction or that encouragement away.

6:06:08So, let's call the vote then on the word encourage versus the other direction word.

6:06:14This is the amendment to the amendment. I'm going to call the vote on that now as anyone against.

6:06:20Okay. Just Councillor Goller. Okay, so that passes. So, now I'm back to the amendment as amended.

6:06:29And so, we, and I was about to go through those individually.

6:06:34Yeah. So, can we have them all back up then? So, Councillor Alder has indicated that he's actually

6:06:47pretty comfortable now with the way things are. It might not need to be parceled out each individual.

6:06:52Is anyone else on council wanting to make sure it's done one at a time or now with the amendment,

6:06:59are we comfortable with actually just passing this as it is? Okay. So, I'm going to call the vote

6:07:05then just as this whole amendment. Okay. I'll do that right now as anyone against.

6:07:11Nobody. Okay. So, that's unanimous on that one. Thank you. So, now that's number three as amended.

6:07:18Now, I need to go back to the number one, the number two, the number three. And I would like

6:07:24those all on the screen for me, please. Sorry, did I hear somebody? Oh, Kate, sorry, your hand is up.

6:07:37Go right ahead. Thanks for your answer, Mayor. Oh, I know what you're going to do. You're going to

6:07:41encourage me. Do you want me to add mine in? Because I think that it would be complimentary in the list.

6:07:49Yes. You know what? No, I'm just going to add yours as an additional at the end. I will go through

6:07:54all of these. Then we'll add yours at the end as the icing on the cake. Okay? Sounds good.

6:07:59Okay. Thank you for reminding me. So, let's go here with number one. I will call the vote on

6:08:05number one. Is there anyone against the implementation plan? All right. That's approved unanimously.

6:08:15The number two is the sequencing for phase one with Wyndham Street North reconstruction,

6:08:21including the extended working hours as outlined. Also to be approved, I'll call the vote on

6:08:25that. Is anyone against number two? No. Okay. I would like that across the whole city, by the way.

6:08:32Anyways, number three, that the recommended concept plan for St. George's Square is outlined in the

6:08:38report dated July 8th, 2005, be also approved as amended. And of course, it's as amended because

6:08:44of all the amendments we just did. Very quick comment from me. I'm still feeling very uncomfortable

6:08:51a little bit with where we are. Please don't take that at any disrespect. I am feeling very

6:08:55uncomfortable with kind of where we are at. I'm going to vote for it today, but I am going to work

6:09:00with staff and just listen a little bit more to some other voices around, including my colleagues,

6:09:06as we get to the end of the month. I just feel like I'm concerned about the wow factor a little bit.

6:09:13So, I just want to kind of drill down on that a bit more between now and the end of the month.

6:09:16But I am going to support it at the committee level here. So, with that, number three, I'm calling

6:09:21the vote on that. Is anyone against? Okay, just Billings. Okay, thank you. That passes. And number

6:09:31four is the mitigation plan as outlined and have that be approved as well. So, I'll call the vote

6:09:38on number four. Is anyone against number four? Nope. Okay, that's great. And five is all around

6:09:44the delegated authority for staff during the whole program. I'll call the vote on that.

6:09:51Anyone against that delegated authority? Nobody? That's great. And that includes the seasonal patio

6:09:57program, parking rates and fees and encroachment agreements. I'm so sorry, it's cut off. Is there

6:10:03anything more? Sorry, it's cut off on my screen. What is number six? Mr. Mayor, number six is that

6:10:09an amending bylaw be brought forward for approval at the July 22nd, 2025 City Council meeting.

6:10:15Okay, perfect. I'll call the vote on that. Is anyone against that amending bylaw coming forward

6:10:19at the end of the month? Nobody. All right, so we waited through that. Thank you very much to staff.

6:10:27Appreciate it. And to the voices that have come and delegated and will continue to talk about

6:10:31this the rest of the month. Okay. Thank you. Now we are going to do Councillor Caton's final motion,

6:10:40the icing on the cake. I have to be very honest with you. The clerk just reminded me. I forgot

6:10:47so I tried to save myself there, but I kind of forgot. So I'm very sorry.

6:10:51Because if Councillor Caton throw up your your motion for us. Thank you through you, Mr. Mayor.

6:11:01I'd like that whenever possible, the sidewalk height and slope should be raised to increase

6:11:06front door accessibility to buildings. So I think this is the icing on the cake.

6:11:11I'm having wherever we can. I know it's not possible for all buildings, but reducing those

6:11:20issues that the stop gaps would eventually reduce in this area when we have a chance to do a big

6:11:26infrastructure project like this. It's always great to increase the accessibility for everybody.

6:11:32And I know that staff think about these things all time. I just wanted to call it out.

6:11:38Thank you. Thank you. This is the right timing in my opinion. So thank you. It's seconded by

6:11:43Alt. I hope that's okay. And then Alt just has a quick question. Thank you very much,

6:11:48Mayor Guthrie. Through you to staff, I was wondering if I could just get a quick comment

6:11:52on this. This seems straightforward and reasonable. It provides you latitude.

6:11:57Through the mayor to Councillor Allt. Yes, as Councillor Caton mentioned,

6:12:00this is something that we would be doing anyway. We have been working to make sure that we reduce

6:12:05some of those height issues throughout the downtown. Appreciating the fact that

6:12:11Councillor Caton is realising that we do have some great issues in the downtown.

6:12:16So it's not going to be possible in all cases, but we're certainly going to try our best.

6:12:21Thank you very much. Thank you, and caller.

6:12:24Thank you. And through your worship to staff. So that I'm clear for this direction to be

6:12:31realized, what would be the approach and the concern that I've heard from several of my

6:12:39more senior constituents is that it is difficult for them to navigate when sidewalks slope down

6:12:45for a driveway and slope back up. And it makes it difficult for people to get, navigate those

6:12:52changes in greater than a sidewalk. So would this be direction be telling you to go up and

6:12:57down on sidewalks? Cutting through you, Mr. Mayor. Against caller, we would avoid such

6:13:03situations that would exasperate an accessibility. We don't want to solve one problem and create

6:13:09another, right? So our accessibility committee and the end is involved with the design. And we,

6:13:17as Councillor, Deputy CAO Holmes mentioned, we are already taking the opportunity to make

6:13:23sure that all our grading is accessible where possible. But we, there is a limit to how steep

6:13:30you can make it drive those ramps as well. Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you,

6:13:34worship. Thank you. Look, it's good that you are doing this, but this kind of drives it home

6:13:41publicly that we want it. It's nothing, no harm in that. And I would just say that when I went

6:13:47with some of the DGBA members and Councillor Claus and to King Cardin, and we had that tour of their

6:13:53whole street, they specifically talked about this, that during the project they made things more

6:13:59level at all of the store entries as best as they could. And many of the store owners

6:14:06really appreciated that. Yeah. So this is the opportune time to do it. So it's good to drive

6:14:10it home here. So I'll call the vote on this. Does anyone against? Unanimous. Thanks, Councillor

6:14:17Cardin. Okay. We are done this. And we are going to head into a five minute break. And then

6:14:27Councillor Allt is, I'm sorry, Chair Allt is going to just take over for the final item,

6:14:33the Guelph Storm 2027 Memorial Cup bid. So five minutes and we'll take care of that. Okay. Thank

6:14:39you. Thank you very much. Welcome to the Consented Agenda for Public Services. We are now into

6:20:03overtime. The goal is the switched ends. We're facing off for the Memorial Cup with our elbows up.