Amended Procedural By-law, included as Attachment-1 to the 2023 Governance Review dated June 6, 2023, be approved…

2:52:52it looks like we were going to try to have a hard,

2:52:56kind of a hard stop at five o'clock.

2:52:59That's kind of what we were all kind of banking on.

2:53:02Our clerk has indicated that his,

2:53:07reamble presentation in regards to the governance review

2:53:09is about, I think about five to seven minutes or so.

2:53:12So I think we will have enough time

2:53:14to go through this matter before we look to have a stop.

2:53:20And so I'll just ask our clerk to come up

2:53:23and give the presentation for the governance review.

2:53:37Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2:53:39Just conferring with our CAO on a couple of things.

2:53:45Good afternoon, Chair Guthrie,

2:53:47as chair of the governance committee

2:53:49and members of city council.

2:53:50Happy to be here to present

2:53:52the 2023 governance review report.

2:53:55In 2018, the city clerk's office began preparing

2:53:58what are twice per term governance reviews

2:54:02as a means of really collecting

2:54:03kind of several different governance related policy

2:54:07recommendation or updates into one single report.

2:54:10And really what that helps us with is,

2:54:12and we believe it helps you as well,

2:54:14it's to sort of consider holistically these things

2:54:16all in one single package.

2:54:18The 2023 governance review is the fourth

2:54:21of such governance reviews

2:54:22that we've presented to city council since 2018.

2:54:26And it's been really quite frankly,

2:54:27administratively efficient for staff

2:54:30and has certainly provided what we feel

2:54:31as a consistent opportunity for members of council

2:54:34to raise governance related items in one single sitting

2:54:38and potentially also refer matters

2:54:40that happen throughout the off years

2:54:41of those governance reviews

2:54:43to future upcoming sessions such as this.

2:54:46All together, the governance review process

2:54:48has been effective and we do continue

2:54:50to bring it forward in that regard.

2:54:53The 2023 governance review includes updates

2:54:55to seven different policies, procedures and bylaws,

2:54:58response to two of your outstanding resolutions

2:55:00of city council.

2:55:01Many of the policy updates and procedural updates

2:55:05are relatively administrative and routine in nature.

2:55:08And they really do ensure that the city's governance policies

2:55:12continue to reflect best practices in our sector.

2:55:15And while some of these changes seem small,

2:55:17they're really part of the city's broader efforts

2:55:19to ensure our collective progress of our governance system

2:55:24and to ensure that it really remains,

2:55:25and I'll say that quite confidently,

2:55:28it remains as one of the leaders in the municipal sector.

2:55:31I'll highlight a few of the more impactful changes

2:55:33included in the report, but staff are obviously here

2:55:35and available to answer questions you might have.

2:55:37So first off, the procedure bylaw amendments to that bylaw

2:55:41include a four month limit on pulling

2:55:42of an information report from the weekly information items,

2:55:47unless a committee of the whole service area chair

2:55:49or other chair, acknowledging yourself, Mayor Guthrie,

2:55:52agrees to have that report pulled.

2:55:54Another item is delegation authority to myself

2:55:57and my team to make very minor administrative edits

2:56:00to motions that are moved at committee of the whole,

2:56:02things like including a date or a reference to a report,

2:56:05or sometimes where acronyms are sent in to us

2:56:07for accessibility purposes and just better public digestion

2:56:11of the material, we would spell all those acronyms.

2:56:13So we're talking about very routine and minor changes.

2:56:17We're also recommending that all delegate time limits

2:56:19be set at five minutes, including statutory public meetings

2:56:22held under the Planning Act.

2:56:24That ensures a consistency and a familiarity

2:56:26so that everyone coming before council

2:56:28speaks for the same amount of time.

2:56:30The delegation authority bylaw,

2:56:32you'll recall earlier this year council approved

2:56:34administrative changes to the delegation authority bylaw

2:56:36in April, which are April meeting.

2:56:38At that time, no real material changes

2:56:40to existing delegations were made,

2:56:42but through a review process,

2:56:44staff colleagues across the organization

2:56:46came forward with specific delegations

2:56:48that could be amended or added

2:56:51so that they better align with current practices

2:56:53or best practices in the sector.

2:56:56As a result, the report includes additional delegations

2:56:59of authority sought by five different city departments.

2:57:01Some of those staff from those departments

2:57:03are available at today's meeting.

2:57:05And if they're not available today,

2:57:06we can certainly route questions back to them

2:57:08as we head towards the end of the month

2:57:10and your ultimate ratification of this.

2:57:12The final aspect I'll point out is task force governance.

2:57:16In 2021, city council asked the city clerk's office

2:57:19to review and report back on best practices

2:57:22as it relates to task forces

2:57:24that are led by elected officials.

2:57:26Since 2021, however, the rules of the game changed.

2:57:29And we've seen a ruling from the Ontario Superior Court,

2:57:32sorry, that has really altered the legislative landscape

2:57:36that these kinds of bodies operate under.

2:57:40And so as long as they're carrying out the affairs

2:57:42of the municipality, they're deemed effectively

2:57:44to be local boards.

2:57:45And as a result of that, city staff have included

2:57:49a recommendation that requires that the city clerk

2:57:51in consultation with your self mayor, Guthrie,

2:57:54would work collaboratively to ensure

2:57:55that any existing task forces are compliant

2:57:57with those provisions of the act

2:57:59as a result of the changes

2:58:00that came through those court cases.

2:58:03So that brings me to the end of my presentation.

2:58:05I'm gonna take a seat beside Mr. McMahon

2:58:07and we're happy to answer any questions you might have.

2:58:10Great, thank you.

2:58:11Maybe just before questions, maybe I just look for,

2:58:15maybe I'll look to my vice chair, first time vice chair.

2:58:19Would you be able to at least move all the recommendations

2:58:21to get them on the floor?

2:58:22Okay.

2:58:23And then seconded by Councillor Chew.

2:58:25Thank you so much.

2:58:26And then why don't we start with questions only,

2:58:29Councillor Boussantel.

2:58:32Thank you.

2:58:33And through the mayor, just question around the editing,

2:58:36the minor adjustments to minutes and so on.

2:58:39Will it be in italics or something?

2:58:42So when it comes to those minutes come to council,

2:58:44it's clear what that change was.

2:58:47How would we know about the change?

2:58:50So through you, Chair Guthrie,

2:58:51what we would talk about predominantly here

2:58:53is motions that are sent in to staff.

2:58:55So not so much in the minutes,

2:58:56we'd like to catch these type of things

2:58:57before they get minuted.

2:58:59We have a statutory obligation under the legislation

2:59:02to minute your meetings without an order comment.

2:59:05So that won't change that process.

2:59:07That is our obligation to you as council and to the public.

2:59:11But as motions are sent into us,

2:59:13we might offer feedback in advance of it,

2:59:16of it being formally brought up if time permits.

2:59:19If it's in the meeting, obviously we're operating

2:59:21in the moment and having to respond quickly.

2:59:23So you might see a motion come through that references,

2:59:26I'll just refer to AMO.

2:59:27Well, we'll spell out what AMO is

2:59:29when that motion actually comes forward on screen.

2:59:32So.

2:59:33Thanks for the clarification.

2:59:36Great, thank you.

2:59:37Is there any other questions at this time?

2:59:40Okay, Ulrich.

2:59:44Sorry, Mayor Guthrie, are we on the procedural by-law

2:59:45or we're on the whole package?

2:59:47It's all, everything's been moved.

2:59:49Okay.

2:59:50All right, thank you.

2:59:51So through you to click O'Brien.

2:59:55In the municipal act rules for closed meetings

2:59:58in that section,

3:00:00it's two of nine in your red line document.

3:00:03It's 41 of 398 in our agenda.

3:00:07It removes quote management issues identified by auditors

3:00:12as a closed meeting,

3:00:17something that can be enclosed.

3:00:19So I understand that list is not exhaustive,

3:00:23but I am concerned about the removal of that language

3:00:26in the chart because if an external auditor

3:00:29or our internal auditor identified an issue

3:00:32and wanted to speak directly to council, right?

3:00:35And the internal auditor reports directly

3:00:37to the audit committee under which clause would council

3:00:40be able to speak with external or internal auditors

3:00:43on a matter that is not public.

3:00:47Yeah, that's a great question.

3:00:48Thank you, councillor Rorick.

3:00:49I'm through you, Mayor Guthrie.

3:00:51Again, and I think you alluded to it.

3:00:52The list is there by there,

3:00:54on that document is by no means exhaustive.

3:00:56We remove the reference to the internal

3:00:59and external audit functions specifically in that section

3:01:02because the reality is, and you're quite right,

3:01:04the internal auditor or an external auditor

3:01:06ought to have the ability to speak to council

3:01:08through the audit committee on any number

3:01:10of different matters, some of which do qualify

3:01:13to be rightly constituted under a closed meeting of council.

3:01:17So it may be secured to the property

3:01:19where it was originally listed,

3:01:21but it may also be, you know,

3:01:22matters about identifiable individuals

3:01:24in regards to their work with staff

3:01:26in conducting an audit.

3:01:27So we simply removed it from that one section

3:01:30so that it's not explicit that that would be the only place

3:01:34in which the internal auditor could meet with council

3:01:37or committee in a closed session.

3:01:39You're quite right.

3:01:40As long as they're meeting the sections or requirements

3:01:42under section 239, two of the municipal act,

3:01:45then they can meet with council on any number of issues

3:01:47as long as it's within those defined allowances

3:01:50under the act.

3:01:52Thank you.

3:01:53So through you, Margaritari.

3:01:54So that is not a list of,

3:01:55it's not an exhaustive list of what is permitted.

3:01:58It is illustrative.

3:02:00That's correct.

3:02:01Okay.

3:02:01We'll all have a chat with our chair of audit

3:02:03over the course of the month

3:02:04and see if he's cool with that.

3:02:07Second question, same chart.

3:02:09Under personal matters about identifiable individuals,

3:02:13says, quote, members on various boards and committees.

3:02:17So by removing that language,

3:02:19are we no longer discussing the slate

3:02:22of council appointments?

3:02:24Are we no longer discussing that in closed?

3:02:26Is that what that means?

3:02:29Through you, Mr. Mayor to councillor O'Rourke's question.

3:02:31So, the names of individuals that serve on committees

3:02:35is once they've been appointed is a public matter.

3:02:37So if you're discussing about a committee

3:02:39or members on a committee, that's a public matter.

3:02:42What we will continue to include in closed.

3:02:44And again, in the lines of that list,

3:02:45not being seen as exhaustive,

3:02:47but we still will continue to offer council

3:02:49the opportunity to discuss in closed

3:02:52because it does meet those requirements under the act.

3:02:54Are things like the application packages

3:02:57that members might apply for those committees?

3:03:00That is very clearly personal information.

3:03:02It often contains addresses, phone numbers,

3:03:04email addresses and the like.

3:03:06And so that needs to be properly constituted

3:03:08in a closed meeting to protect the personal information

3:03:10of those that have applied for committees.

3:03:13So again, that's removed in that sense only

3:03:16because the names of individuals

3:03:18who serve on committees is public information,

3:03:21but certain nuanced aspects about their personal information

3:03:24is in fact confidential and private

3:03:26and will be treated in the same regard

3:03:27as it has been in the past.

3:03:29Perfect, thank you.

3:03:30That's the clarity I was seeking.

3:03:31And through you, Mr. Mayor, I just have two,

3:03:36one, maybe two more questions.

3:03:37Under the delegation of authority by law,

3:03:41and someone give me an example of why we would need length

3:03:44of contracts to go from five to 10 years.

3:03:46I mean, that's beyond a strat plan.

3:03:49It's beyond the four year, multi-year budget.

3:03:54I just have a concern around that.

3:03:58Why go from five to 10 years?

3:04:00And I'll explain a little bit

3:04:02the other piece that's concerning me.

3:04:04The language in the paragraph says,

3:04:06longer-term agreements support organizations

3:04:08that rely on the city and other funders

3:04:10to offer stability to general operations, et cetera.

3:04:13But our role here in governance is to be stewards

3:04:15for the city and not necessarily

3:04:18to ensure operational stability for someone else.

3:04:21So if somebody can give me an example

3:04:24of what that would look like,

3:04:25it would help me get my head around that.

3:04:26Yeah, I think through you, Mayor Guthrie,

3:04:28to Councillor O'Rourke, that's a specific reference

3:04:31to some of the work that is carried out

3:04:33by DCL, Clark Bush and her team.

3:04:35So maybe I'll let her respond.

3:04:38Sure, through the Mayor to Councillor O'Rourke

3:04:39and thank you for the question.

3:04:40So examples, so our community benefit agreements

3:04:45are generally three to five years.

3:04:46So they fit within the five years

3:04:47where we were looking to change this delegation of authority

3:04:51is for some of those organizations

3:04:52with whom we have agreements.

3:04:53And I'm hesitant to get into too many specifics

3:04:56because I don't want to,

3:04:58so I'm just using specifics off the top of my head.

3:05:01These aren't exact examples that we're negotiating right now.

3:05:04But for example, the Lawn Bulling Club,

3:05:06the Tennis Dome, Salta's Gymnastics,

3:05:09Guelph Youth Music Center,

3:05:10these are organizations where we have agreements

3:05:13and where there would be benefit

3:05:14for the stability of the organization

3:05:16to sometimes in terms of our conversations with them,

3:05:20be able to do those contracts with them

3:05:23for longer than a five year period

3:05:26and to look to the longer term stability

3:05:28for the organization.

3:05:30So it's been identified.

3:05:32Previous histories,

3:05:33we actually have much, much longer term agreements.

3:05:35It's actually much coming down to five was a shortening.

3:05:38And I think, again, I won't name a specific,

3:05:42but I think there's an agreement, for example,

3:05:44that previously was done for somewhere over 30 years.

3:05:47So we're trying to find that balance

3:05:49between not getting too long into agreements,

3:05:51as you've said, where we're locking ourselves in,

3:05:53but giving the stability to an organization

3:05:56where it may be beneficial to be able to enter

3:05:58into a six or seven year agreement.

3:06:01So it was just about giving us that flexibility to do that

3:06:04as we're working with some of these organizations

3:06:06where we do have these existing longterm relationships.

3:06:12Okay.

3:06:14Thank you.

3:06:15And then my last question is on the task forces.

3:06:19Is there a date for the mayor and CEO to come back

3:06:23with an assessment of whether task forces are local boards?

3:06:31So I think the language is as required.

3:06:33So I'm just wondering what the timeline is.

3:06:36Thank you, Councillor Wark.

3:06:38And through you, Mayor Guthrie,

3:06:39I mean, our intent is as soon as possible,

3:06:42recognizing we're heading into the summer months,

3:06:44but in sort of brief preliminary conversations

3:06:47with Mayor Guthrie, and I'll let him

3:06:49add any additional commentary,

3:06:51we're ready to sort of embark on that work

3:06:53and that review sooner than later.

3:06:55And again, I'll defer to either Mayor Guthrie

3:06:58or CAO Stewart if there's any additional comments.

3:07:04Just so people at home can hear me.

3:07:05No, what you just said is exactly as we discussed

3:07:08that as soon as possible.

3:07:10So yeah, we're on the same page.

3:07:14Okay, thank you.

3:07:18And then Councillor Downer had a question

3:07:19and then over to Guller.

3:07:21Thank you.

3:07:22Councillor Wark asked the one about task force,

3:07:25but I have a sort of another one here,

3:07:27which I'm not sort of clear about.

3:07:29So a member of city council can establish a task force

3:07:34that does not qualify as a local board

3:07:36and they're free to do so.

3:07:37Such a body would not be considered a local board

3:07:40if it was not established.

3:07:42Greater point of our city council

3:07:43is not directly connected or controlled by the municipality

3:07:46is not carrying on the affairs of the municipality.

3:07:50So if I set up a task force in my ward on,

3:07:57oh, let's look at the tree situation in word five,

3:08:02and I called it my tree task force.

3:08:06Is that not carrying on?

3:08:08Like what could I possibly be setting up a task force for

3:08:11that I wouldn't be carrying on some issue

3:08:14around the municipality?

3:08:17I mean, I'm not furthering it with staff

3:08:19or bringing forward, like I just so,

3:08:21I'm just sort of, I'm not clear about that.

3:08:23Yeah, and through you, Mayor Guthrie,

3:08:26to Councillor Downer's questions, your question, Councillor.

3:08:28I think it's also a bit of a struggle that we're realizing.

3:08:31So what we're relying on is a court case here

3:08:33from the Ontario Superior Court,

3:08:35which uses the terms, you know,

3:08:37quote, carrying on the affairs of the municipality.

3:08:39That is quite broad in sort of,

3:08:42it's just plain reading of that language.

3:08:45We would be in a position to support members of council

3:08:47if they're embarking on those aspects.

3:08:49It's less about the, I'll call it the nomenclature

3:08:51or the naming of a committee,

3:08:53it's task force or committee or, you know, working group.

3:08:56It's less about what you call it and more about

3:09:00where that body's work might land on the spectrum

3:09:03of quote, unquote, carrying on the affairs

3:09:06of the municipality.

3:09:07So we're ready and prepared to be in sort of lockstep

3:09:10with members of council as they sort of embark

3:09:13on these activities and where needed,

3:09:16could consult with legal staff to support that work as well.

3:09:20It is really, and I use the analogy that sort of the rules

3:09:24change midway through the game in this last,

3:09:27between our last governance review

3:09:29and this governance review.

3:09:30And it literally was quite literally that case,

3:09:32superior court case as a result of a matter in Hamilton

3:09:35that sort of cropped up.

3:09:36And so we're all left in the sector kind of trying

3:09:39to ascertain what a specific body might,

3:09:43where it might land on that spectrum.

3:09:45So it is very challenging.

3:09:46I will acknowledge that as well, Councillor Downer,

3:09:47but suffice to say we can just be ready to support members

3:09:52of council if they're moving through those kinds

3:09:53of exercises or considerations.

3:09:55Okay, I'll think about that.

3:10:03The tree task force.

3:10:04Just sort of this, you know, advisory committees

3:10:09are now local boards issues.

3:10:13And if they have subcommittees or working groups,

3:10:19that all has to be.

3:10:21So it's not posted on our web.

3:10:23Local boards don't post their agendas on our website.

3:10:27They post them probably on their own,

3:10:29like the library or the DGBA, right?

3:10:31So the DGBA is a local board, right?

3:10:34Yes, that's correct.

3:10:35So any subcommittee of the DGBA should be doing that, right?

3:10:40Is that posting them on there?

3:10:43Through you, Mr. Mayor.

3:10:44Yes, absolutely.

3:10:45I mean, I think you know our default in the clerk's office

3:10:47is to open and transparent at all times.

3:10:51We're in a position to really well support

3:10:53some of the local boards in the community and are there.

3:10:56And we've, in fact, you know,

3:10:57because we're so early into this term still relatively speaking,

3:11:01you know, over the last course of the last six to eight months,

3:11:03we've worked pretty closely with some of those local boards

3:11:05to offer training, to offer support,

3:11:08to offer best practices and tips.

3:11:11We've done that with the DGBA,

3:11:12I believe with the Guelph Public Library Board.

3:11:16So we're able to do that, but yes,

3:11:19the default is to open and transparent by nature.

3:11:21The fact that the act states that these are local boards

3:11:25and by nature of that,

3:11:26they're required to have minutes and agendas posted

3:11:28in a relatively prompt time leading up to a meeting

3:11:31and following a meeting.

3:11:33Do all our advisory committees have their minutes

3:11:36are up to date and current on our website?

3:11:38I remember recently looking for, I can't even remember which one,

3:11:41but there was no minutes posted for like a couple of years.

3:11:47Through you, Mayor Guthrie, I will say yes.

3:11:50They certainly should be.

3:11:52The reality is resourcing the city's advisory committees

3:11:56can be a challenge.

3:11:57So we've got very dedicated and competent staff

3:12:00that serve as what we call staff liaisons for these committees.

3:12:02They do great work.

3:12:04They in effect act as extensions of the city clerk's office.

3:12:07When it comes to supporting the work of those committees

3:12:09from a legislative standpoint,

3:12:10they offer subject matter expertise

3:12:13that quite frankly, the team in the city clerk's office

3:12:16can't provide that level of subject matter expertise

3:12:18on whatever it is that they're formed to sort of engage upon.

3:12:23We offer that legislative expertise.

3:12:25So we're there in a position to support those staff liaisons,

3:12:29but we're exploring through discussions with the executive team

3:12:31how the city clerk's office can be a little bit more engaged

3:12:34in some of those groups.

3:12:36And that's certainly part of our work,

3:12:39looking forward to this term, your upcoming strategic plan,

3:12:42your upcoming budget deliberations, et cetera.

3:12:45So we feel we've made some really good interim

3:12:47and sort of iterative steps

3:12:49to be able to better support some of those advisory committees.

3:12:52So we think that's been beneficial.

3:12:55And the feedback we've received from those staff liaisons,

3:12:57and I think I speak on behalf of the executive team,

3:12:59from members of the executive team,

3:13:00is that that's a positive insertion for us

3:13:05as the city clerk's office to do that.

3:13:08Thank you.

3:13:10Great, just before I go to Councillor Gower,

3:13:11I just want to make sure I respect,

3:13:12I can see some of the delegations coming

3:13:15for the next agenda item.

3:13:17So I just want to, and some of you might have just walked in.

3:13:19So just so you know, like after this item is done,

3:13:23we are taking a heartbreak.

3:13:24Okay, so probably, you know,

3:13:28I got imagined like sort of like 530, 535,

3:13:31something like that,

3:13:32what might be sort of the starting time.

3:13:34So I just wanted to make sure I respected you.

3:13:36If you're like, oh, I wouldn't mind going

3:13:37and grab something to eat or come back, whatever,

3:13:39that you knew in advance and not kind of waited and waited.

3:13:42And then you didn't know.

3:13:43Okay, so I just wanted to make sure you knew that.

3:13:46So I have two more, Councillor Gower and then Buschichel.

3:13:49Thank you and through your worship.

3:13:51Mr. O'Brien, with regards to the change

3:13:54to the noise by like exemption,

3:13:58whereas before it said that the deputy CEO

3:14:01could give exempts to events

3:14:05that were going to be making loud noises

3:14:09and we had to make post notice about it.

3:14:11Now it says we may post the notice about it.

3:14:14Can I understand the rationale

3:14:15for not telling our community members

3:14:17that we have given an exemption

3:14:18and there's going to be an overly loud event

3:14:21that would contravene our noise regulations?

3:14:26Thank you, Councillor Gower and through you Mayor Guthrie.

3:14:30This is something that I think we can report back

3:14:31at the end of the month.

3:14:32But if I remember correctly, Councillor Gower,

3:14:34the specific question you're asking about around May

3:14:37is more about the nuances of where we post it.

3:14:40So for example, previously, delegations,

3:14:44we were able to post in at one point in time,

3:14:46it was a daily newspaper in the city.

3:14:49That's no longer an option for us.

3:14:50So the May is more about flexibility of in print,

3:14:54but also perhaps online.

3:14:56So, but again, that's my current assumption,

3:14:59but I think we can work back

3:15:00or again, I'll defer to DCO Clark Bush.

3:15:03Yeah, and through Mayor Guthrie to Councillor Gower,

3:15:05we can definitely get back

3:15:06and I'll follow up with Mr. Godfrey on that.

3:15:09But I think part of the challenge is the way

3:15:11that we were reporting was often actually missed

3:15:13by members of the public.

3:15:14And so it actually wasn't a helpful process.

3:15:17And so it's about having that discretion

3:15:19to look at what the noise by-law exemption is,

3:15:21determine how we need to, if we do need to report it

3:15:24and who we need to report it to,

3:15:25rather than being constrained

3:15:27to a very specific way of reporting.

3:15:29We'll do it on a case-by-case basis

3:15:31and do what makes the most sense

3:15:32in terms of the circumstances of the noise

3:15:35that is being exempted.

3:15:36Okay, okay, thank you.

3:15:38I will follow up with you.

3:15:40I have concerns that my constituents

3:15:43that live in the downtown experience

3:15:46many more loud events than the rest of the city.

3:15:50So it would be good to be clear about,

3:15:53we will tell people about it,

3:15:54but it's gonna be on the website, on Twitter,

3:15:56or whatever that form is.

3:15:58Thank you, Your Worship.

3:16:00Thank you, and then over to Councillor Prostul.

3:16:02Thank you, and through the Mayor.

3:16:04I just wanted to echo Councillor O'Rourke's

3:16:07kind of 10 years delegated authority.

3:16:09That was something that I highlighted

3:16:12as well as a bit of a concern.

3:16:16But I do wanna acknowledge Councillor Downer

3:16:19talked about task force and so on.

3:16:21And I wanted to thank the clerk's office

3:16:23for meeting with the mayor and I on May 29th to discuss this

3:16:27because I asked the same thing.

3:16:28Well, I'm gonna set up a task force then.

3:16:31But I was going to raise this and I will raise this.

3:16:34Yeah, it's about trees.

3:16:36In the engagement item later in the agenda,

3:16:38because there's two questions that I had

3:16:40and one is on page seven,

3:16:42in the engagement continuum,

3:16:44it talks about engagement staff, project managers,

3:16:47community members and elected officials in this engagement.

3:16:51And it feels like this fine balance of,

3:16:54that question, are you continuing or furthering

3:16:56the business of city council?

3:16:58And what had or how do, is it a working group?

3:17:01Am I a task force?

3:17:02Like how do we meet that continuum

3:17:06and still walk that fine line kind of thing?

3:17:10So that was a question that I had.

3:17:12The question actually is,

3:17:14will the clerk's office work with that team

3:17:17to ensure that we don't cross that line,

3:17:20whatever it looks like and we call ourselves,

3:17:22whatever we need to be.

3:17:24And through you, Mayor Guthrie,

3:17:25to Councillor Boussette, absolutely we will.

3:17:28Our challenge again is we kind of need to see this bear out.

3:17:32Like we sort of need to observe and watch

3:17:34how this court decision is interpreted

3:17:37in hopefully other municipalities

3:17:39if there's those that are sort of running up against this.

3:17:42But we'll continue to monitor that.

3:17:43We do offer that type of support and advice

3:17:46and guidance to all city departments,

3:17:48including our community engagement colleagues.

3:17:50So we'll be in lockstep with them as they move through

3:17:53those things and they know that they can reach out

3:17:54to us as well.

3:17:56Thank you.

3:17:56And I know we're going through the review

3:17:58of all our committees, our advisory committees

3:18:01and so on, which, so this is timely.

3:18:03And just finally through the mayor,

3:18:05when it comes to the recommendations,

3:18:07I'd like to separate item number one.

3:18:10Yep, no problem.

3:18:13What I'll do then is, oh, I'm sorry, I got one more.

3:18:15Councillor Caron and then I'll go to the vote.

3:18:17Yep, Councillor Caron over to you.

3:18:19Do you don't want to set up your own task force

3:18:21on trees, do you?

3:18:22Well, as a matter of fact,

3:18:26I'm changing the conversation a little bit

3:18:29to a different section of the report, if that's okay.

3:18:33And that is a section, hold on, I've got it on another screen.

3:18:38On page 14 section,

3:18:43just scroll back, 4.10,

3:18:46or 4.10.

3:18:49And then we have two, two new clauses there, H,

3:18:54which is, as a best practice,

3:18:57council may choose to move and second staff recommendations

3:19:00prior to any motions from members of council.

3:19:02So I had a question on that,

3:19:04just because it is listed as a best practice,

3:19:10what is the reasoning behind that?

3:19:13I'm not in opposition to it,

3:19:14it's just nowhere else in the governance report

3:19:18do I see as a best practice as the introduction.

3:19:22Is that considered a best practice?

3:19:24Is there evidence?

3:19:25Is that from AMCTO?

3:19:28Where is it a best practice from?

3:19:31That's a great question.

3:19:32Thank you, Councillor Caron.

3:19:33And through you, Mayor Guthrie.

3:19:35The rationale behind that change is, again,

3:19:39and I think council will have heard me talk about

3:19:41sort of the quote unquote bouncing ball.

3:19:43So the benefit of moving a staff recommendation,

3:19:46that does not presuppose that,

3:19:48I'll say this guardably as I look over at you too,

3:19:50that staff always have the best recommendation.

3:19:52Council may have very valid approaches

3:19:54and really good constituent input

3:19:56that informs an alternative approach.

3:19:59What this talks about is,

3:20:00staff makes a recommendation, Councillor Caron,

3:20:03and then that recommendation is what's included on an agenda.

3:20:06So if that is moved first,

3:20:08and then amended by a council motion,

3:20:12then the minutes then show that the history or the pathway

3:20:16and the lineage of that motion, right?

3:20:18Versus if something is on an agenda

3:20:20as a staff recommendation and a member of council,

3:20:23which again, remains your right as a member of council,

3:20:25if you move something in the alternative

3:20:28to a staff recommendation before that recommendation

3:20:31is moved, we may have someone look back

3:20:3310 years, 15, 20 years from now and say, wait a minute,

3:20:36I saw a staff recommendation on the agenda,

3:20:37but there's in the minutes,

3:20:38it shows an alternative approach.

3:20:40So the best practice is really just to sort of provide

3:20:44as clear a history of the decision.

3:20:46So staff recommendation moved,

3:20:48council had an alternative approach,

3:20:50an amendment was moved, the motion was duly amended,

3:20:53and then council carried on as they saw fit

3:20:55in their decision making.

3:20:58Does that answer your question, Councillor Caron?

3:20:59It does address it, yeah.

3:21:00And I'm okay with that.

3:21:02That tends to be what we do.

3:21:04We sometimes don't do that,

3:21:06but I can certainly understand why that record keeping

3:21:10is an important layering.

3:21:12So I'm okay with that addition.

3:21:16The next clause, clause I,

3:21:19and I'm sorry I didn't get, you know,

3:21:22send these questions ahead of time.

3:21:24It's something that's just kind of been percolating for me.

3:21:29I guess what I'm asking,

3:21:31and I may have an amendment here,

3:21:34is, and I can see why this clause has been added.

3:21:36I know we had a situation last year.

3:21:40Don't wanna bring up the reason for that situation,

3:21:43where we did have an amendment made

3:21:45where the minutes didn't reflect the amendment

3:21:47that was on, or the motion that was on the screen.

3:21:50And so I understand why this is added.

3:21:53So we wanna give the clerk some discretion

3:21:56to make our motions clearer in the public record.

3:22:03But I do have some concern about it being occurring

3:22:09prior to, during, or following the adjournment of a meeting.

3:22:14And it does give authority to the clerk at their discretion

3:22:19to make those administrative amendments

3:22:20without the mover or the seconder or the mayor

3:22:24having an opportunity to agree with those.

3:22:28We would have to confirm it at the minutes.

3:22:32And I just, I have some concerns about that

3:22:37because I believe that council should own its motions.

3:22:41The mover and the seconder should always own their motion.

3:22:45The clerk, you know, with all due respect,

3:22:49doesn't own the motion.

3:22:51So I think I do have an amendment then.

3:22:55I would like that to word,

3:22:56the clerk at their discretion may suggest

3:22:59administrative edits to motions and amendments

3:23:03rather than to make them.

3:23:04I think that the mover and the seconder of a motion

3:23:08should have the opportunity to own the motions

3:23:11that they make.

3:23:12And we do respect the role of the clerk and his team

3:23:18to suggest edits, administrative and otherwise.

3:23:23But I think that the mover and the seconder

3:23:26should ultimately decide whether or not

3:23:28those administrative amendments do accurately reflect

3:23:34the intent of the motion, the motion and do reflect

3:23:41the intent of the mover.

3:23:43So if I could just,

3:23:46I'm going to swap out the word make administrative amendments

3:23:48to suggest administrative edits.

3:23:53Let me just see if there's a seconder for that first.

3:23:55Okay.

3:23:56So I got a Rourke.

3:23:58So that's fine.

3:23:59Then it's on the floor then.

3:24:01And any questions on that amendment before?

3:24:06So I only, okay.

3:24:07It doesn't look like there's any questions.

3:24:08I have only one question

3:24:10because I'm actually, I'm not opposed to it at all.

3:24:13But just from a process point of view,

3:24:15like in the moment,

3:24:16you often will sometimes make suggestions

3:24:19or actually any of us can,

3:24:21we all kind of work together sometimes

3:24:22or a staff will make a suggestion.

3:24:25Will that require you then or any clerks

3:24:30to have to pause, make sure it's written out

3:24:36with the included suggestions

3:24:38before it goes up on the screen?

3:24:40Like I'm just trying to figure out,

3:24:43sometimes they are as minor as,

3:24:46oh shoot, that's a,

3:24:48that motion said 2022 by accident

3:24:50when it's supposed to say 2023.

3:24:53Do we all then have to pause our meeting,

3:24:56wait for that to be changed on the screen,

3:24:58have it go up on the screen?

3:25:00Is that how you are going to view this amendment

3:25:03by Councillor Caron?

3:25:04I know she's shaking her head,

3:25:05which I'm with you Councillor Caron.

3:25:07That's not my intent.

3:25:09Yeah, no, I just want to make sure

3:25:10from an actual workflow process in the moment thing

3:25:14that our clerks are understanding the intent

3:25:16behind the word suggestion.

3:25:18Yeah, and through you, Mr. Mayor,

3:25:19or to you, Mr. Mayor, to your question,

3:25:21you know, this is actually an exact example of this.

3:25:25So right now my team will be minuting this meeting

3:25:28and they're saying to themselves,

3:25:30what specifically is the wording that's being asked?

3:25:33What we might take is the exact explanation

3:25:35that Councillor Caron has given for her motion

3:25:37and we would word something that,

3:25:39an amendment to clause one,

3:25:41that the amended procedural byline

3:25:42included as attachment one, et cetera, et cetera,

3:25:44be approved, including a change to clause 4.10,

3:25:50H, and in a revision to the word make versus suggest

3:25:55and that type of thing.

3:25:56So we actually already do some of this work in the back end.

3:26:00What this change is intended to do

3:26:03is really capture quite frankly what happened.

3:26:05So members of council will know this,

3:26:07you'll often send an email into clerks.

3:26:09It might say, you know, and remove,

3:26:12sometimes we get simply, and this is with complete respect,

3:26:14it might say, remove the word may.

3:26:16Well, that's not actually the motion that's being tabled.

3:26:19It's a lot more nuanced than that.

3:26:21And again, coming back to the history piece,

3:26:23someone will want to look back five years from now

3:26:25and say, what exactly did they move?

3:26:27They didn't really move, just remove the word may.

3:26:29They moved something that was more substantive

3:26:32and very descriptive in that regard.

3:26:34So what we're trying to achieve with this suggested revision

3:26:37to the procedure by law is to give us the flexibility

3:26:39to support you in that regard.

3:26:42We will often go back and forth in meeting

3:26:44and support some of that dialogue with individual members.

3:26:47We will still continue to do that.

3:26:50But this speaks to that process of sending those motions

3:26:53to us so that we can support that process.

3:26:57Okay, and then this is a follow up.

3:27:00Oh, sir.

3:27:01Is that okay, Councillor Cronk?

3:27:02This is a follow up.

3:27:03Yeah, you do your follow up and then I'll respond.

3:27:05All right, thank you.

3:27:06So just as one follow up,

3:27:09I just want to ask you straight up,

3:27:11is this amendment of changing the word may make

3:27:15to may suggest, is it in any way onerous

3:27:19or not going to fulfill the natural end result

3:27:23of what we would see anyways?

3:27:27To you, Mr. Mayor, what it may do is it may cause us

3:27:31to go back to the member to say,

3:27:33thank you for your motion that you've provided.

3:27:34May I suggest this more explicit wording changes to this

3:27:39so that it achieves the intent

3:27:41that you're looking to achieve?

3:27:42And we may be in a position where we're waiting for it.

3:27:45What this allows us to do this amendment

3:27:47that we've proposed in the bylaw as it stands

3:27:49is that we will take that and still likely engage

3:27:53and say, I'm going to suggest this additional wording,

3:27:55but we'll be able to run with it more quickly.

3:27:57I come back to some of the language

3:27:58that we talked about during the orientation

3:28:00with council about respecting your time

3:28:02to be efficient and effective in your meetings.

3:28:04By no means do I see Councillor Caron's suggested amendment

3:28:07as deviating from that,

3:28:09but there is a nuanced aspect of us being required

3:28:12to suggest backwarding, waiting for that to be confirmed

3:28:15versus us sort of being able to support council's work

3:28:19in the moment.

3:28:20Okay, thank you.

3:28:22I think if I could just make a comment then on the motion

3:28:25before I go back to you, Councillor Caron.

3:28:27So you know what, I just don't think there,

3:28:30in my view, we could give this a try.

3:28:32I think that's where I'm kind of landing on it a little bit

3:28:35to support the amendment.

3:28:37And here's where I actually was,

3:28:40you kind of took the words out of my mouth,

3:28:41is that I agree, and I think we all agree,

3:28:44we want to have efficient and effective meetings

3:28:47by being better prepared to not have a whole bunch

3:28:51of in-the-moment changes,

3:28:53of course things will naturally rise,

3:28:55but if we could be better prepared with suggestions of words

3:29:00or things like that of amendments or different motions

3:29:03prior to us walking in the room, so we're more prepared,

3:29:07that way we aren't having to pause or wait

3:29:10or work backwards in the moment.

3:29:13That's because we received your suggestions

3:29:16or that of staff or whatever, prior to.

3:29:19And that kind of compels us as a council

3:29:21to be a bit more prepared.

3:29:23So anyways, I'll support this amendment,

3:29:25but I'll go back to the mover.

3:29:27Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

3:29:29And I think we're onto something here.

3:29:31I think this is a new clause to our governance procedure,

3:29:34and I want it to be clear that I highly value

3:29:36the input of our clerk on helping us craft motions.

3:29:41For me, what stuck here was the following

3:29:44a German of the meeting.

3:29:45So if I make a motion and clerk edits it,

3:29:49and I'm not aware of that edit until I get the minutes,

3:29:52and then it's confirmed at a meeting

3:29:55where I have to check the wording of every motion

3:29:58that's made to make sure that my intent is clear.

3:30:01I just think that that dialogue, if an edit is made,

3:30:04goes back to the mover again, so that we can own our motions

3:30:07so that we don't put the clerk in a precarious position

3:30:10of having to defend an edit that was not

3:30:12the intention of the mover.

3:30:15So since this is a new clause,

3:30:17I think we're onto something,

3:30:18and that would give me that piece of comfort

3:30:21that there's a dialogue when a change is made.

3:30:25So I'll leave it at that.

3:30:26And vote accordingly.

3:30:31Yes, I think our clerks are gonna work on that amendment

3:30:34to have them come up on the screen.

3:30:35Councillor Downer really wants to see it.

3:30:38But I only have one more question, and there it is, boom.

3:30:43Oh, that was your, okay, that's it there.

3:30:46So it's already been moved and seconded.

3:30:47I think we've had good dialogue and reasoning behind it.

3:30:50So it looks like I can call the vote.

3:30:53So is anyone against that amendment change there?

3:30:57Seeing and hearing nobody's, that's unanimous.

3:30:59So that's great.

3:31:01Is there any other changes at all

3:31:03that need to be addressed?

3:31:04Councillor Boussantel.

3:31:07Thank you, and through the mayor,

3:31:08I did send this to the clerk's department.

3:31:12And this is section, let me just pull it up.

3:31:16It is to the procedure by-law, it is section 13.2C.

3:31:22And it's around information items to be amended

3:31:28to require consultation and approval

3:31:31of the relevant meeting chair prior to adding

3:31:35an information item to a committee of the whole

3:31:37or county or sorry, city council agenda.

3:31:41And again, thank you to the clerks

3:31:43for meeting with the mayor and myself

3:31:45and a conversation around this.

3:31:47But what I did appreciate through this whole by-law review

3:31:51is the tightening up as a new councillor,

3:31:55cleaning up some of the ambiguity around the procedure.

3:31:58So I'd like to place that.

3:32:01I'm sorry, not Michelle, Councillor Richardson

3:32:04as agreed to second that.

3:32:07Is there anything further on this item?

3:32:09So your worship, what is the motion?

3:32:13So we'll have it back up on the screen.

3:32:15Just give it a second there.

3:32:19There you go.

3:32:25Do you want me to explain what that is?

3:32:27Well, currently we only need approval

3:32:31if it's more than four months,

3:32:33but by this it would require approval,

3:32:36regardless of the time, is that correct?

3:32:38So that I'm understanding.

3:32:39So if I wanted to pull a report from last month

3:32:41and the chair was against it,

3:32:43then I wouldn't be able to pull it.

3:32:45I'm trying to understand why we would want to do that.

3:32:49Let's, want me to?

3:32:51Okay, we kind of discussed it as vice chair or chair.

3:32:54So the way it currently is,

3:32:56is that any councillor, including myself, by the way,

3:32:59can just ask for an information item to be pulled.

3:33:03And without any consultation with the chair

3:33:07or a deputy CAO,

3:33:08it can just flow right to the council meeting.

3:33:11And from an agenda management perspective,

3:33:16that can be quite difficult.

3:33:18Like if we had a major heavy issues agenda,

3:33:22and all of a sudden without chairs or deputy CAOs

3:33:25or anybody knowing a mayor or a councillor,

3:33:27says I'm putting this information item on there,

3:33:30then all of a sudden you've got this issue,

3:33:31it's landing on agenda without anybody knowing.

3:33:35And if I could just give an example

3:33:36of how like really good this sort of works already,

3:33:40you're gonna have an agenda,

3:33:42we're all gonna have an agenda item on this agenda.

3:33:45The councillor Caron rightly pulled as an information item

3:33:49a few months ago, like I don't know, two or three months ago.

3:33:52But she was great, like she contacted me

3:33:55and was like, I am thinking of pulling this.

3:33:57And I said, you know what,

3:33:57the best placement for that is under the overall governance

3:34:01review of this agenda item.

3:34:03And councillor Caron was like, yeah, that's great, that's perfect.

3:34:06Instead of it automatically without anybody knowing,

3:34:08it just flies to an agenda at the end of the month.

3:34:11So the approval or non-approval

3:34:15to get to your question as well,

3:34:18the default on that is that,

3:34:20first of all, I can't really see that happening,

3:34:23but let's say it did,

3:34:24then the default position of any councillor would be,

3:34:27well, then I'm gonna do a notice of motion then.

3:34:29And then so you could just on that exact information item,

3:34:32you could say, well, I'm gonna do a notice of motion

3:34:34to bring that item forward.

3:34:36So it's not stopping it from ever coming forward

3:34:39because there's always a process to bring it forward.

3:34:43But this really codifies

3:34:45that any member has to speak to the chair to say,

3:34:49look, I'm thinking about bringing this forward.

3:34:51And then the chair in consultation with the deputy CAO

3:34:54can say, you know what, the end of this month's perfect

3:34:56for that.

3:34:57It's not a heavy agenda item,

3:34:59it matches whatever we're talking about,

3:35:01or the chair could say, don't bring it to this one.

3:35:04Can we bring it to this one over here?

3:35:06It makes more sense exactly as this,

3:35:08the one that councillor Caron is bringing forward today

3:35:10as an example.

3:35:11Did that help you?

3:35:13My one concern is that it does leave the door open

3:35:17for an information item that at this point

3:35:22should be brought into an agenda, any agenda,

3:35:24for it to have to go through a notice of motion.

3:35:26And if the vote of council doesn't support it,

3:35:30then that will no longer be brought forward.

3:35:33So in essence, it puts that additional filter.

3:35:36So if my constituent wants to talk to an information item

3:35:41and council doesn't agree, they're no longer able to.

3:35:44So I am concerned about that filter.

3:35:46And then information items have this layer

3:35:49where they would very well not be brought

3:35:51to a meeting of council if the chair doesn't agree.

3:35:55And I completely agree with the timing,

3:35:57but the possibility for it to not be brought forward,

3:36:00that is a concern to me at this point.

3:36:02Okay, I guess my only response to that would be,

3:36:05forget that information items even existed.

3:36:08You have an issue that one of your citizens

3:36:11wants to bring in front of here,

3:36:14you would still have to go through

3:36:15a notice of motion process to get buy-in

3:36:18from your council colleagues to say,

3:36:19okay, this is a relevant issue

3:36:21that your citizen wants to talk about

3:36:23in the council chambers, right?

3:36:25So regardless, it's still,

3:36:27you would still need to kind of get permission

3:36:30in some way to that.

3:36:30Right, right, except that this is responding

3:36:32to a report that is coming from staff.

3:36:35And no, no problem, thank you for that.

3:36:39I'm gonna go to Colosson and then Billings on this one

3:36:42and then O'Rourke.

3:36:46Just for clarification purposes,

3:36:49is there precedent around this

3:36:51with any other municipalities pulling this,

3:36:54this information report away from the ability for counselors

3:36:58or is this just something that has come up?

3:37:03My first question.

3:37:07I can't speak to other municipalities.

3:37:09So maybe the court could jump in on that one.

3:37:11Yeah, really quickly through you, Mr. Mayor.

3:37:12I would say that the information items,

3:37:15the process we have and the process

3:37:17that other municipalities have very differently.

3:37:19There's no prescribed set rules for these types of things.

3:37:21We opt for once a week to issue information items.

3:37:24That lets members of council pull items

3:37:26that are just for receipt and discuss if they feel fit,

3:37:29see fit at that means some municipalities,

3:37:31smaller communities in Ontario will include

3:37:33those pieces of correspondence

3:37:35or those receipt item reports

3:37:36on regular agendas of council.

3:37:39So it's difficult to say whether it's precedent

3:37:43that there's so many different ways

3:37:44that it's done across the province.

3:37:48Okay, and so pulling it is one of the ways

3:37:51that we can bring something to council.

3:37:52So I don't know, I'm maybe kind of repeating something

3:37:55that Rodrigo said, but just for my own clarification,

3:37:58pulling it directly brings it straight onto the agenda

3:38:01versus a notice of motion would mean

3:38:05that we would have to get seven counselors to agree to it

3:38:09before it became, it got on the agenda.

3:38:12You are technically correct,

3:38:14but if I could just walk you through it one more time.

3:38:17Right now the procedural by-law omits talking to a chair

3:38:22or to the deputy CAOs, you could just automatically ask

3:38:25for an information item and you could just automatically

3:38:28have it come to the next council meeting

3:38:30without any talking to anybody.

3:38:32And that can be a problem

3:38:34from an agenda management point of view.

3:38:37So the proper kind of courtesy step,

3:38:39if I could call it that, is you would say,

3:38:41hey, I saw this information item, you go to the chair.

3:38:44You go to chair or RORC as an example and say it

3:38:47because it's an IDE information report.

3:38:50Hey, can I throw this on there?

3:38:52And the chair or RORC goes, yeah,

3:38:54the end of this month is perfectly fine, done.

3:38:56Or she says, well, I don't like that,

3:38:58can we do it next month?

3:39:00And then you're like, yeah, fine, done, right?

3:39:03But what this motion, this amendment is saying

3:39:06is that it basically codifies that you have to do that step.

3:39:11And if for some reason though,

3:39:12and I've never seen it by the way,

3:39:14if for some reason councillor RORC goes, no,

3:39:17this is not worthy of having a discussion at council at all.

3:39:20Then you would have a default third option,

3:39:23which is, well, then I'm gonna bring a notice of motion

3:39:25forward for my council colleagues to decide whether or not

3:39:28there's relevancy to it or not.

3:39:30So really what this is all about

3:39:32is making sure that it's codified,

3:39:34that the step to speak to the chair is there

3:39:38so that a conversation can be had

3:39:40before it's just automatically,

3:39:41without anyone knowing, put on an agenda.

3:39:46Okay, thanks for the clarification.

3:39:50Billings and then RORC?

3:39:54Yes, Mr. Mayor.

3:39:56So I'm agreeing with everything you've said

3:39:58in the process, however, it wasn't that long ago.

3:40:01There was an issue, it was on the information sheets

3:40:04and it was brought forward to council,

3:40:07but it was time sensitive.

3:40:10At that point in time, if this amendment were to pass,

3:40:13that chair could have said no.

3:40:17And then it would have been too late.

3:40:18To go through the process of the notice of motion,

3:40:22then the issue would have been over with,

3:40:24meaning staff in the information report

3:40:27was identifying how they were going to implement

3:40:29something immediately.

3:40:31And to go through the notice of motion process,

3:40:35then there couldn't have been direction from council.

3:40:38So this is why I'm hesitating and supporting this amendment

3:40:43is because it's only on time sensitive matters.

3:40:46As far as informing the chair,

3:40:48working with the chair, with the agenda, absolutely.

3:40:52But if it is time sensitive, that's where I'm blocking.

3:40:58Okay, I'm neutral.

3:41:00You can look at him.

3:41:01You can, sorry, go ahead.

3:41:03No, so I was just wondering,

3:41:04so if there was something through you two to Stephen,

3:41:08if there was some other way,

3:41:10because right now we just have the other option

3:41:12of notice of motion.

3:41:16Yes, you can suspend the procedural bylaw,

3:41:18which we've done.

3:41:19So that's another default position.

3:41:21If it's a time sensitive issue,

3:41:23the councillor could make the case

3:41:25through a point of order or a point of privilege

3:41:27to bring order requests to suspend the procedural bylaw

3:41:31to allow an item to flow immediately rare,

3:41:34but that is an option for council to consider.

3:41:36That is an option, but does that not have to be put on?

3:41:39I'm asking you, Mr. Mayor,

3:41:41does that not have to be put on the agenda?

3:41:44No, as an example, the community wanting to have council,

3:41:50council wanting to make their point known

3:41:53about the hydro power station in the park,

3:41:56in your West End, by the way,

3:41:58you brought that forward at the end of an agenda

3:42:02where council did have to suspend the procedural bylaw

3:42:06to allow that item to be discussed in the moment.

3:42:08That's correct, Mr. Mayor,

3:42:10but I went to you and asked your permission

3:42:13in order to make that happen.

3:42:16If I did not have your permission as you as chair,

3:42:22did you see where I'm going with this?

3:42:25I do, but even if I'm not allowed,

3:42:28if I had not given permission,

3:42:30you could have risen on a point of personal privilege

3:42:33to ask your councilmates to suspend the procedural bylaw.

3:42:40Even if I ruled that out of order,

3:42:42your councilmates can still challenge the chair

3:42:44with a majority vote to continue.

3:42:46Okay.

3:42:47Yeah, look, but hey, look,

3:42:49I want to be honest here with you,

3:42:53if that's a big enough deal for you,

3:42:56you could amend this amendment to say,

3:42:59instead of with the approval of the chair,

3:43:01I forget what the wording is,

3:43:03you could say in consultation with the chair,

3:43:06if you wanted to do that.

3:43:08Well, I would move that as an amendment.

3:43:12Okay.

3:43:12And councillor Klosson will second it.

3:43:15Mr. Mayor, if I may.

3:43:16Hold on, our clerk wants to jump in.

3:43:18Councillor Billings, just one second.

3:43:20That amendment that's being tabled

3:43:21is already what staff recommendations is.

3:43:24So the recommendation right now is to do a consultation.

3:43:27Our focus was predominantly around a four year,

3:43:31four month story limit.

3:43:33And it already includes the wording of consultation.

3:43:35I think if I can speak for councillor Boosterteal,

3:43:38I believe her intent was to make it sort of an in consultation

3:43:42and with approval of the chair of a respective committee.

3:43:46So if that's what councillor Billings is looking to achieve

3:43:49is simply just in consultation

3:43:51without the actual action of approval

3:43:55on the part of the chair,

3:43:56then that's already existing in the recommendation

3:43:58and the procedure by law amendments were proposing.

3:44:03Okay.

3:44:04Well, I mean, we could just take that is correct.

3:44:06So we could just take a vote on the amendment as is right now,

3:44:09looking for the approval.

3:44:10And if it fails, then it would default

3:44:13to the position that the clerk just said.

3:44:14So why don't we just wrap this up then

3:44:17and do it as simple as that with two stages.

3:44:19Councillor O'Rourke first though.

3:44:22Thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

3:44:23Just a couple of comments.

3:44:26One is that the role of the chair

3:44:28is to manage the agenda and the meeting.

3:44:30And so something added to the agenda

3:44:33should have the approval of the chair.

3:44:35We've not been really sticky

3:44:36and we don't have some kind of really, you know,

3:44:38hard nose chair, but that is the job, right?

3:44:43The other thing, and this happened to me actually

3:44:47in the last term of council.

3:44:49Sometimes we're pulling information reports

3:44:53because we want to ask more questions,

3:44:55but that can be done individually

3:44:57and doesn't have to happen at council or publicly.

3:45:00So if we're pulling something from an information report,

3:45:03what is the desired outcome there?

3:45:05Is it just to find out more?

3:45:06Cause there's another channel to do that that's not here.

3:45:10I have a concern, you know, we're very,

3:45:12we're a council that gets along really well.

3:45:15What is to preclude every member of council

3:45:18from pulling an information item

3:45:19and insisting it be put on an agenda

3:45:22without any sort of approval from the chair.

3:45:24It would be totally taking over a council

3:45:27or a committee agenda.

3:45:29So I think this actually is a bit preventative.

3:45:32It places that decision making with the chair.

3:45:34If somebody disagrees with the chair,

3:45:36they can take it up with them.

3:45:37They can do a notice of motion,

3:45:38but we've got to respect like why some of those roles are there.

3:45:43And so I'm glad councillor was still

3:45:45brought the motion forward

3:45:48because in fact it happened to me in the last term.

3:45:50So I'll resolve themicably.

3:45:52My other question is in clause C,

3:45:58there's a typo in the amendment that says,

3:46:00and clerk's clerk within four months.

3:46:03So I'm just wondering if the answer

3:46:04Boothie Tells motion to fix that

3:46:06or if we need to fix that.

3:46:08Well, through you councillor,

3:46:10we will exercise our authority to edit the motion

3:46:15as it comes on the floor.

3:46:17Yes, that should read city clerk.

3:46:18We will acknowledge that that's an error on our part.

3:46:20Thank you.

3:46:21Okay. Thanks.

3:46:23Thank you to the chair chair for bringing that up.

3:46:26Okay, so I'll go back to the mover for final comments.

3:46:30Before I go to you though,

3:46:32I am good to support exactly what councillor Booth

3:46:35and Till put down.

3:46:36I am good to support that.

3:46:37I think we should give it a try

3:46:39that the approval is required by the chair.

3:46:40Anyways, go ahead, councillor Booth and Till.

3:46:42Thank you.

3:46:43And just in closing,

3:46:44we had a robust conversation with the clerks.

3:46:46We met with them.

3:46:47The intention is not to close doors,

3:46:51but again, that efficiency effective,

3:46:54as councillor O'Rourke was saying,

3:46:56managing the agenda and moving through the meeting.

3:46:59That was the intent there.

3:47:02Okay, so let's call the vote then on the amendment here

3:47:06for actually getting approval of the chair.

3:47:08So I'll call the vote.

3:47:10All those against, please raise your hand.

3:47:13Okay, we got...

3:47:15Two, okay.

3:47:17That's Billings and Guller.

3:47:22Oh, I'm so sorry, and Kaden, I'm so sorry.

3:47:24Okay, thank you.

3:47:26So that fails.

3:47:27So now we'll go back.

3:47:29So that means, sorry, it passes.

3:47:31It passes.

3:47:32So that amendment has passed.

3:47:34All right, so now we're back to everything.

3:47:37Main motion as amended, okay.

3:47:39Anything further?

3:47:40We got councillor O'Rourke.

3:47:43Through you, Mayor Guthrie, the staff.

3:47:45So this 10-year contract is really troubling me

3:47:49because it could be any general manager.

3:47:51And again, like we have a very collegial,

3:47:53very respectful relationship here.

3:47:57But to me, that blanket provision of you can go

3:48:01from a five to a 10-year contract, it seems like a lot.

3:48:06So through you to staff, is there a mechanism

3:48:08where you can come and seek an exemption

3:48:10if you needed a contract that was that length?

3:48:13I don't want to worry for no reason,

3:48:15but the five years was there for a reason.

3:48:18And to me, it seems like a significant change

3:48:20in the delegation of authority.

3:48:22So can you help me get my head around it?

3:48:24Why not just come for a special exemption?

3:48:28So through the mayor to councillor O'Rourke,

3:48:30and then I don't know if Mr. O'Bron or Mr. McMahon

3:48:32want to comment, I think that was what we were partly

3:48:35trying to avoid was having to come to council

3:48:37and having to have council consider those agreements.

3:48:40And we can take that back between now

3:48:42and the end of the month to make sure that there is

3:48:45perhaps more limitation.

3:48:46It is certainly not the intention that any contract

3:48:49could be extended by any general manager

3:48:51for up to 10 years.

3:48:52That was not what we were trying to accomplish.

3:48:54It was simply to, when we're renegotiating

3:48:56some of our existing agreements,

3:48:58and it's predominantly related to renegotiations,

3:49:01is having that flexibility so that,

3:49:03and again, I'll just, I don't want to pick

3:49:07a specific example and look like I'm targeting it,

3:49:09but when we're doing these agreements

3:49:10with some of these community organizations

3:49:12that are utilizing city facilities

3:49:13for their longer-term operations,

3:49:15it was about giving them that stability.

3:49:18Yeah, and so, I mean, generally,

3:49:21the Merced Remembrance Day,

3:49:22that could be one that we'd look like.

3:49:23Generally, we do our CBAs on three to five-year cycles,

3:49:26but it would give us that flexibility,

3:49:28but we can take that away as well

3:49:30and commit to coming back at the end of the month,

3:49:33if, and maybe working with you to see if there's a way

3:49:35that we can accomplish what staff we're still hopeful for

3:49:38in terms of not having things having to come to council,

3:49:41but limiting how widely that could be used,

3:49:44because it certainly was not the intention

3:49:46that it be for any contract at the city

3:49:48or that any general manager could do that.

3:49:49So we can work with you on that if you want

3:49:53so that you can bring an amendment at the end of the month.

3:49:55Okay, thanks.

3:49:56The section I'm looking at is Table 3, Number 1.2,

3:49:59and it says delegate CAO, the deputy CAO's

3:50:02general manager of the relevant department,

3:50:05which seems broad to me.

3:50:08So through the mayor, we'll get that clarification

3:50:10because the intention really simply was those agreements

3:50:12sitting within the culture and recreation department

3:50:14where we're working with those community groups.

3:50:16So I will make, we will take that away and look at it

3:50:19and then follow up with you.

3:50:20Okay, great, thanks.

3:50:22So I'll make sure to go to you if there's a motion

3:50:24then having that ready, okay?

3:50:26At the end of the month.

3:50:27Yeah, Guller and then Busigil.

3:50:29Thank you through your worship to deputy CAO,

3:50:32but it's just a follow up on that.

3:50:34Would there be any instance where a general manager

3:50:37enters into such agreement without approval

3:50:39from their DCAO?

3:50:42Through the mayor to council Guller,

3:50:43no, because in general terms,

3:50:46these are separate from this delegated authority.

3:50:48We do also still have signing authority requirements.

3:50:51And so any of these types of agreements

3:50:52are coming to me for my signature

3:50:55because they exceed the signing authority

3:50:57of the general manager, which is,

3:50:59there's kind of those two measures in place.

3:51:02Okay, thank you.

3:51:03Thank you, worship.

3:51:04For sure, and then Busigil.

3:51:06Thank you.

3:51:07And I still had some concerns as well.

3:51:09And I guess I'm not familiar with the context.

3:51:12Is there a community benefit plan, like a longterm plan

3:51:16that would coexist with this

3:51:19because you're building the capacity of whoever.

3:51:24And I think I asked this question

3:51:25of the community investment, Dana,

3:51:28as well as not having a sense

3:51:30of where these investments are happening.

3:51:33And that's when I asked the question,

3:51:34is there a master plan so that you can picture

3:51:37and say, oh, capacity is growing here and not here?

3:51:39Or that kind of a context.

3:51:41And that's just a comment.

3:51:42And perhaps I just don't see it

3:51:44or have an understanding of it.

3:51:48Through the mayor,

3:51:49if I can just respond to council,

3:51:50please tell this really was about those longer term leases.

3:51:55Really the community benefit agreements

3:51:57we generally are doing on that three to five year cycle

3:51:59and council is seeing those on an annual basis.

3:52:02And again, I would go for example,

3:52:06and I'm, Salto's Gymnastics Club has a very long lease.

3:52:10I forget what the term length is.

3:52:11It's something in the range of 50 years.

3:52:13I believe it was negotiated long before I think most of us.

3:52:16When that time comes up to renegotiate that,

3:52:19it really was about the flexibility on that lease.

3:52:21If you have an organization that had a 50 year lease

3:52:23and we're looking to renegotiate it

3:52:25to then do only a five year lease is a big shift.

3:52:27So it really was about having that flexibility to say,

3:52:30where we used to do things

3:52:31and have these really longterm leases, that's too much.

3:52:34But perhaps five years was too short.

3:52:36And so for these longer term lease agreements,

3:52:39and as I say, I've, I don't think Salto's comes up

3:52:42for another 20 years, which is why I picked it as an example

3:52:44because it's not relevant.

3:52:46But that would be an example where we would like

3:52:49the flexibility to not have to bring something like that

3:52:52back to council where we've had an existing relationship

3:52:55with this community client for such a long period of time

3:52:57and simply to be renegotiating every 10 years, not every five.

3:53:04Okay.

3:53:06Flexibility.

3:53:07And you were talking about a gymnastics thing.

3:53:11All right, let's make a councillor downer

3:53:13for laughing at my jokes, I appreciate it.

3:53:16It looks like I can call the vote

3:53:18on the main motion as amended.

3:53:21So I will do that now.

3:53:23Is anyone against?

3:53:26Nobody, that's unanimous.

3:53:27So that's great.

3:53:28We got through that.

3:53:30So we are going to take our break now.

3:53:34And I'm going to suggest that we come back here at 545,

3:53:38almost a half an hour.

3:53:41No, let's make it a half an hour, please.

3:53:42So 10 to six, okay, 10 to six.

3:53:47And then we will jump into the last two things,

3:53:50the smart cities and the municipality

3:53:53of Trent Lake's resolution oath of office.

3:53:58And the third one, the downtown renewal.

3:54:01And then the fourth one,

3:54:02which is the engagement questions.

3:54:04Okay, here we go.

3:54:09See you soon.