Special Council Meeting

3:19Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to our special council meeting. It is Tuesday, July the 16th 2024 and it is four o'clock

3:27We are here for as I said a special council meeting a little bit of an added item

3:33I'm hoping that quickly can also be considered but right off the top

3:37Please stand if you're able as we recognize our national anthem. Thank you now just for a moment of silent reflection

5:08Thank you and now our territorial acknowledgement as we gather let us take time to reflect on the privilege to live and work here in Guelph a

5:28City that's built over rich indigenous histories

5:32We're guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land the people who live here today and the generations to come

5:39If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation

5:43We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude

5:46This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time

5:52But more specifically the Anoanarok and the Honoshoni

5:56This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation

6:00And Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Hulamun track and as part of a long-established traditional hunting grounds for the six nations of the Grand River

6:09Many first nations Inuit and Métis people who have come from across Turtle Island called Guelph home today

6:15With that is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof?

6:20No, okay. Oh, don't hear or see any so we'll move right along

6:26The first one is a zoning bylaw enforcement issue at 135 Ferguson Street

6:33As you can see there are three recommendations that staff helped craft

6:39Last week as people are already aware

6:42There has been an issue in regards to the Italian Canadian club with their outdoor tent

6:48and

6:49There is some responsibility and processes on their end in which they need to fulfill and

6:56Our staff have given them

6:58The steps necessary to be able to accomplish that

7:02There is unfortunately though a timing issue here with the summer upon them and

7:08So if you'll recall the last time that I can remember something like this occurred

7:13Is because this is very rare. It's kind of out of step

7:17Is when we suspended the enforcement on driveway widths

7:21So it's similar to here is that we are suspending enforcement on certain provisions within the allowance of the tent

7:29as they get their application together which they promised to do and as the

7:35Motion states by August

7:37I'm so sorry. I think it's the 13th of this year for the committee of adjustments to look to that minor zoning

7:44Variants that would come to committee of adjustments

7:46So between now and then they'd at least be able to move forward and I think that they've established themselves well enough to show

7:53That they can be responsible for this issue and then we're looking for them to be responsible to also fill out the application

7:58And get it done properly as well

8:01with that I know someone

8:04Sort of councillor Klassen said happy to move councillor Busuttil has indicated happy to second that but with that

8:11There is no correspondence or delegations on the matter

8:15I think it was just kind of left to me to kind of bring forward to council. Is there any questions at all?

8:21council or work

8:22Thank you. I got through through you to staff is

8:25Is this so sort of one-time change sufficient like or is there something that needs to be addressed in the by-law to be more permanent?

8:34Like is there something we can do to improve the by-law? So we're not in this situation again

8:43So through to the mayor to councillor roark. I think with respect to what's being what's being asked of staff here

8:48It's quite temporary in nature in terms of if an application is submitted

8:52Submitted by the date suggested in the motions and staff will work with the applicant through the c of a process

8:57To bring them into compliance and so there there would be no sort of permanent need from that respect

9:03In general the the process itself is already set up so that the by-law and the process has worked together

9:08So I don't I don't see a concern there

9:10So through you my gath read do we do we anticipate another scenario where this could occur again?

9:15And if so would staff then have the tools to address it

9:18through the by-law

9:21So through the mayor to council or work

9:23I think staff's position would be that that any applicants should be following the process staff have worked with this applicant have explained the process to them

9:30Throughout the course of this year and then past correspondence beyond that

9:34um

9:35The the processes are in place for good reason and and so we think in the future any other applicants should continue to follow

9:42City standard process

9:44Okay, thanks

9:46Great. Thank you with that. I'll call the vote. Is anyone against this?

9:51Nobody

9:53Thank you that passes unanimously. It's

9:55Let's go get some pizza

9:57under the tent

9:59All right, we are moving right along then to the follow-up mayoral direction before

10:05temporary structured encampment

10:08we are

10:10here because council

10:12asked for this special meeting as a follow-up when we sent away

10:17staff to work

10:19With the tiny home coalition to do some more deep dive on what we could do as a community

10:25And as a city and other partners to possibly look at a structured encampment site

10:31um, look there is uh about nine delegations

10:36and I've talked in advance to uh, mike marco longo who has

10:43been

10:44quite involved in a kind of a spokesperson in regards to the tiny home

10:48coalition

10:50And I've also spoken to the first delegations that are on our list and noted

10:55This is a little bit out of scope for me to look to switch some things around

10:59However, I think under the uh, circumstances

11:02I have talked to both of those parties and they're both fine with mike marco longo actually coming first

11:08The reason being is um, the tiny home coalition really wants to set the stage set the tone for what is um,

11:15Good to be discussed today, and I think it's important that that be stated first before

11:21We hear from other delegations. So if you don't mind council, I am going to call up mike marco longo first is mike

11:27Okay, sorry. I don't have my glasses on sorry. I saw your hand go up mike

11:32Come on down and then we will go back to our regular order program

11:36Okay, so um,

11:38christin kerr, helen fishburn, mark walton

11:41You get ready in the wings

11:44But uh, mike, thank you very much for being here everyone has no more than five minutes

11:49Okay, so the four minutes and 30 second mark you'll hear a bell

11:53To give you the 30 second warning, uh, but stick around just in case there's any follow-up questions from anyone. Okay, mike

11:59I'll turn it over to you. Thank you very much

12:02Great. Thank you your honor

12:09Thank you for the opportunity to speak today to you about uh, the golf tiny homes coalition and our proposed project

12:14My name is mike mark longo and I am uh, the volunteer project manager with the golf tiny homes coalition

12:21As you know, the the tiny homes coalition is a community led

12:25approach

12:26And our goal here is to provide safer housing for unhoused community members

12:30And support them through the next steps of their housing journey

12:34We convened in january of 2024

12:36With the intention of exploring a community-based approach to addressing the increasing issue of homelessness

12:43in wealth

12:45the

12:46The model we're proposing expands the range of options on the housing continuum in wealth for unhoused community members

12:53Since january the coalition has

12:56Held a number of strategic planning sessions

12:58culminating in a project charter engage in consultations with similar projects

13:03So with a better tent city in, uh, kitchens as well as the wall street project in pierborough

13:09We incorporate it as a not-for-profit and establish a board of directors

13:13Released an expression of interest to help identify public or private land for the project

13:19Received a commitment from a charitable organization to provide tax receipts for the project

13:23recruited over 75 volunteers and

13:26received unsolicited commitments for in-kind and financial donations by many wealth-based manufacturers

13:32businesses and individuals

13:35We also developed a project management plan in terms of our deliverables and milestones

13:39Arrived at an agreement and principle with the royal city mission to support the coordination of services

13:46With the wealth-based health and social service providers

13:49We've also built a prototype home and displayed publicly

13:53That's home to engage with the community

13:56Hosted a webinar with the intention of sharing information and addressing community concerns

14:01Consulted with all key social service and health providers in the gulf-willington area

14:08In terms of support, uh, we've gotten a lot of support from different organizations including the gulf general hospital

14:14the gulf community health center

14:16the came out to health association

14:18Stonehenge

14:19and sanguine as well

14:21We've also received support from the chamber of commerce the gulf community foundation and habitat for humanity

14:29We started this journey in january and we hope to continue this journey

14:32So i'm just going to quickly talk about the journey and and where we're at

14:36Um

14:37Unfortunately, we're not as far as we as it we had anticipated

14:41We had hoped to have a preferred location and to move forward with a site and we were hoping that would be a conversation today

14:49Unfortunately, we're not there

14:50There's a couple of sites that had facilities that could be retrofitted for communal space kitchen washroom showers laundry areas, etc

14:57But unfortunately, we've deemed those sites as having too many risks and unknowns at this point in time

15:03As a coalition we've made a strategic strategic decision not to expand our political capital

15:08On shorter term sites that would result in significant regulatory hurdles and potential nembism

15:14It is our belief that securing the possible site needs to be done very carefully

15:19The good news is that the past seven months have worked to reveal some significant progress

15:24And i'll quickly speak to those

15:26the first uh significant

15:28Progress is a conversation discussion

15:31On ways to address homelessness and encampments in our community is is happening

15:37It's a vigorous conversation

15:39There are lots of supporters of the tiny home model and there are some critics

15:44Uh, both supporters and critics are engaged in that conversation

15:48This is an important conversation and this is what democracy looks like

15:52We thank those on council that have engaged in that conversation

15:58Another significant progress I think is in terms of the

16:01Conversation around the perceived and real scope of homelessness in the city. That's being debated

16:06We've had some vigorous conversations with the city and the community about the true scope of the problem

16:11We're not here to debate numbers, but there seems to be an increasing consensus

16:15Then when we speak to homelessness that the number of encampments needs to be captured with a number of residents on the by name list

16:21Which currently sits at around 200 people

16:23Speaking only to encampments or only to the by name list does our community a disservice

16:30We've also acknowledged that the tiny homes model is not a panacea to homelessness

16:34We know that our shelter in downtown struggles with the fact the residents exit from the shelter early in the morning

16:38And folks are readmitted in the evening

16:40As a result our public spaces become the default spaces for a displaced

16:44The tiny homes model will have its own communal private spaces so that folks can belong to a community and they can have their own residences

16:53Lots of questions around the model, especially in terms of the exit strategy

16:58and unfortunately the exit strategy is

17:0230 seconds

17:07Council, uh, I am going to as the chair allow

17:11Allow the extra 30 seconds today. It's very odd for me to do that, but I do want you to finish your your point

17:16So it just I will only give you 30 seconds. Okay. Let's go ahead mic

17:19And I appreciate your your your flexibility. I'll just focus on the ask

17:24Are asked today then is as a coalition continues to work to secure the best possible site for the tiny homes project

17:30We ask wealth city council to endorse

17:33Tiny home project as a viable model for working to address homelessness in the city of wealth. Thank you

17:38Great. Thank you mic and please just stick around because I know there's a couple hands that have gone up for

17:42For questions. I'll start with councillor Allt. Please and then I think calver. Did you have a question?

17:46Thank you very much. Mayor guthrie through you to mr. Mark along go

17:50Mr. Mark along go. Thank you very much for speaking. I'm going to go backwards. I have three questions

17:54You have asked for an endorsement of the model

17:58I was wondering if you could outline what your intention is what you believe that will accomplish

18:06Yeah, so the through you mayor guthrie to councillor Allt

18:11It's a great question in terms of what does an endorsement mean

18:13I think it it signals to the county that you'd like the tiny home model

18:17You see it as a viable model one and two that you're signaling to the county that

18:22It should be part or consider as part of the housing continuum

18:26Okay, thank you. So you along with transitional and supportive housing. That's clear. Okay. Thank you

18:31um, the next question

18:33Uh, I appreciate you stating that you that you believe tiny homes are not a solution nor a panacea

18:40Uh, just could you break that down for me, please? Sure

18:44um

18:48Yeah, so the you know the the homelessness in displace

18:52Through your mayor guthrie to council. The homelessness in displace concern as as we all know it's it's multifaceted

18:59There's there's a housing aspect. There's also mental health and addictions

19:03Aspects to it it will it takes all

19:06And you know and unfortunately the the number of vulnerable is increasing as we

19:11Recently found out through the county's own report

19:14In the last quarter 33 percent increase in chronic homelessness

19:19so the

19:20The reality is that there's a lot of folks that are displaced the housing crisis is real

19:25it's affecting the most vulnerable in in ways that we never expected as a community and

19:32In terms of addressing it, we need to to try all models. Um, we're positioning ourselves as a pilot approach

19:42We, um

19:45Remind you your question, sorry

19:49through

19:50Sorry through mayor guthrie to you tiny homes, uh, you suggested right not a panacea is not the only solution not a panacea

19:56You know, you could argue and I had a conversation yesterday with uh with the bail hookstra and I and she said well, it's a band aid model and I said, yeah

20:02It's a band aid model. Um

20:04the band aids do work and um, I said, you know the shelter model is also a band aid model

20:10Those models exist because they are temporary solutions to

20:15Um to addressing the the bigger concern

20:19So first of all just what i'm hearing you state is is there are many different band aids for many different injuries?

20:25That's right. I would I would argue that um, you know, if the shelter system is the band aid the tiny homes is a cast

20:33Because people are housed in their own space

20:37Um, we're providing wraparound supports. They have their own community

20:41Um, they're able we're able to stabilize folks. I'm like, you know, it's a much harder thing to accomplish in the shelter approach

20:47I know the shelter system

20:48If the mayor will indulge me have two other questions stemming from uh, mr. Marco Longo

20:53Uh, you made reference to a pilot. Why a pilot and what does that pilot look like to you?

20:59uh, uh again through you mayor guthrie to counselor alt

21:03We're positioning it as a pilot because it is a new model for our community. I think there'll be learnings

21:09There have been learnings in wadalu in kitchens in peterborough in frederickton

21:14um

21:15This is uh, you know, we have to proceed cautiously

21:18um, a pilot is a cautious approach to moving forward and it also allows

21:23The the the team that's assembled around to support the folks in the in the tiny homes project to evolve with the project

21:30Okay, thank you. Last question mr. Mayor through you

21:33um, you made an inference uh to the by name list and I wasn't clear

21:40But I was wondering when you were talking about the scope of homelessness

21:43Whether you were suggesting that the by name list does not really

21:49Catch the actual reality of the homeless in the city of guelph. I'm not certain whether you said that or not

21:57Through you mayor guthrie to counselor alt

22:00I wasn't insinuating

22:02The validity or the numbers on the by name list although I in full disclosure. I don't work in the in the

22:09In the in the homelessness or poverty sector or social services

22:12um, my understanding from talking to a number of service providers is that

22:16because of

22:18the

22:19Approach to get folks on the by name list. There are certain hurdles. So the number is likely under reported

22:26But I can't speak to it from a personal perspective

22:29I won't ask the hurdles, but maybe somebody else will thank you gollar then our work

22:36Thank you through your worship to uh, mr. Marco longo

22:39Thank you for your presentation today

22:42I'm happy to see that the conversations are moving along

22:45Per the the staff report that they presented today. They spoke about the ask from the

22:51Coalition that that you will in principle fund raise 55 of the cost and then the city will be responsible for the rest

22:59Um, could you let me know at what point will there be a more more solid plan with actual numbers of what the actual request is from the city?

23:07sure

23:09again through you mayor guthrie to counselor gollar

23:12the

23:14A lot of folks around the horseshoe today have asked for more details and as a result we did include a five page brief that speaks to

23:23Many more of those details

23:25And it's a four-phased approach

23:28So the the second phase is fundraising

23:31As you know from reading that that brief the first step or the first phase is identifying the location

23:38Once that location is identified

23:40Once it's approved

23:42Then we'll know what the servicing and the and the capital costs

23:46Actually

23:47Are in real terms and that's the challenge for us until that that

23:52Locations been identified. We're working with ranges

23:55Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you very much

23:57Thank you worship. Thank you counselor counselor or work and then Richardson

24:02Thank you, mayor Guthrie. I've got a couple questions

24:04Um, first of all, mr. Marco Longo, thank you so much for the work the coalition is doing the conversation that we're happening that we're having

24:12Um, it is impressive to see that the number of volunteers who are mobilized behind this

24:17So I think that is just fantastic. So I really appreciate that

24:20I think it's wise to pause on the site selection to do it properly

24:24um, and I'm wondering so um

24:27Ten shelledale got land from skyline

24:31Grace gardens was able to purchase the the motel on marilin through a significant donation

24:38I'm wondering if you're if you're working with the chamber who sent a lovely letter of support

24:43Are you working with the chamber in terms of potentially identifying a donor or a land, you know partner?

24:51um

24:52Through your mayor Guthrie to council or work

24:55We are certainly collaborative collaborating with the chamber and I know that they put out feelers to the business community on land

25:03At this point

25:04No one's come forward from the the business community. Uh, so we continue to focus with the chamber on the fundraising aspect

25:12I do I do want to acknowledge sorry through you mayor Guthrie to council or work

25:16I do also want to acknowledge, you know, your gratitude to us. Um, but the reality is is

25:23You know, it's been an amazing team effort. Um, I also want to acknowledge the staff that have put in long hours

25:30And been very flexible in terms of responding to various requests sometimes late at night

25:35Um, so it's you know, the staff have played a key role here as we move forward

25:40The the coalition very dedicated group of people that meets weekly on sundays at one o'clock and they're always there

25:48Very very engaged

25:50The community has been incredibly supportive and uh, that keeps us motivating going great. So through your mayor Guthrie

25:56That's actually another one of my questions

25:58um in this interim

26:01Moment where you're looking at, you know, what exactly is the model? Where could it be?

26:05Etc. Do you have any suggestions on how to sort of harness all that energy and goodwill and

26:11Of the volunteers so that we can be providing some of those wraparound services or you know

26:15Is there a way that we can

26:19Can continue to mobilize and really value all those folks who've come forward and said that they want to help

26:27Um through your mayor Guthrie to council work

26:29I think uh, you know, we have weekly updates with our volunteers and supporters

26:34um, I think what the community is looking for at this point in time is is a message of hope

26:40um, I think the community is ready to hear that city council is stepping up and

26:45uh, and

26:46You know, I'm a little biased here, but saying this is maybe the model that we should be exploring further

26:52Okay, uh through you, mayor Guthrie. I just have two more. Um

26:56The the question about the scope of the issue has come up a few times in conversations

27:01So will the tiny homes coalition work with other agencies and with the county to try and get our arms around?

27:07What is the scope of the problem? Um

27:10Because the the conversation, I mean, it's the the variance is significant

27:15Right and so we can't be making informed decisions if we have no

27:18No idea what the scope of the issue is so is that is that an undertaking that the tiny homes coalition the county have made already?

27:25Through you, mayor Guthrie to council work great question

27:28um

27:29Our ask of the county one of our key asks is that uh, the project be

27:33Integrated in the housing continuum as well as the by name list

27:37so if folks are not on the by name list and um, we're working

27:42We intend to work as an integrated partner in that in that current approach. Um by having more players at the table by

27:51You know

27:52Encouraging folks that we work with and we also work with anybody hearing from Danny for instance who'd reach out to in camp at folks

28:00By having more advocates at the table. We can only improve

28:04The reliability of those systems

28:06Right. So so three you may got three. I'm just trying to get to in terms of sort of the evidence informed decision making

28:14Before there is the the determination of this is how many units you want in your pilot or anything like that

28:20Is there work going on with the county to to really clearly get our heads around how many encampments there are

28:26And how many people are living rough?

28:28right because the

28:30the numbers seem to vary between the the

28:34County report and and the tiny homes coalition

28:38So in terms of our understanding of the scope of the issue, we've arrived at the fact that

28:44You know, we've heard in in public settings both from the city and the county that there's 17 encampments with

28:49And that will change and calling encourage jump in but the last we heard was 17 encampments 16 people

28:57You know as part of the dashboard

29:00We are feeling is that that's probably it's probably twice to three times that number

29:05From from you know, I didn't come up with that number. I spoke to folks that actually do the outreach as part of our coalition

29:12So, you know, I think we're willing to work with a range. I think a range is the best we're going to achieve in the short term

29:19I think that range needs to be realistic and I think that's where we're heading

29:23Okay, and through you, Marga, through just a last question. So

29:26The emotion that's coming later is going to ask us to endorse the model. Okay

29:32But it's not really clear to me what the model is

29:36Because I've heard people talk about it being a pilot or it's temporary

29:42And then once people are housed then then there's no longer a need for this tiny home community

29:49And then I've heard it's going to be permanent on the continuum, but sort of temporary for the residents so

29:56What what's the model exactly?

29:59the

30:00Through your margathe to council work the the five page brief is pretty detailed in terms of explaining the model

30:07That you know, hopefully it is temporary

30:10that

30:11Even if it's temporary, he still needs to be part of the continuum

30:16Because being part of the continuum means that then you're able to integrate into the county's systems and approaches

30:23Okay, thanks

30:28Thank you, richardson and then downer

30:31And thank you through you margathe to mr. Marco Longo

30:34I'm going to uh tap into councillor or works comment about being not necessarily clear

30:40Of what the model is and and you and I have you know, how you've helped me with some

30:44understanding of that and I just want to make sure that you know endorsement of this model will also include

30:52The tiny home community would have significant supports to it

30:55So there's going to be full-time supports for people who need them there'll be someone there 24 hours a day

31:01That there's rules

31:02There's like shared cooking and no drug use will be allowed to be used in the community area

31:08And I think that's important for people to understand because I think sometimes there's some

31:15Less informed people that think it it's not as

31:19supported as what it actually

31:21Will be so I just want some confirmation on that and maybe some more explanation about sure how that would work and what those supports are

31:28Okay

31:29through your margathe to

31:30council richardson

31:32the um

31:34Yeah, so the again the brief does have more details because I remember having a conversation with you about I need more details

31:41It you know, it is I think the

31:44an important aspect here

31:46It is community led there's a misconception sometimes that it's a volunteer led initiative

31:49It's not volunteer led is 24 7 staffing

31:54the

31:55The budget is is operating budget is 627,000 as an estimate that's for 24 7 staff

32:03In terms of wraparound supports, we've engaged with

32:06Key service providers. They've agreed to participate in the model

32:10So that those wraparound supports will be there

32:13um

32:14They will be speaking later today

32:16the um in terms of

32:19This security of the site. There's been a lot of conversation in on the team about that and the importance of security on the site

32:26um, the the reality again is

32:28You know until we have a location until we um

32:33you know

32:34Create that

32:36Have a commitment and we're all the service providers come together

32:39And basically spell out the policies. Um, I'm you know, it would be difficult for me to say this is exactly the the um

32:48The parameters for security site, but that certainly is a key concern for us

32:53And thank you and I think it's important for people to realize that that's part also part of the the model

32:57That's right. Thank you. And just to speak to that quickly

33:01Again, we've had a lot of conversations with a better tent city as well as the the peter brogues folks

33:08About how they their parameters their security site has evolved over time as well

33:14So there's lots of lessons there

33:16Yeah

33:17Thank you. Thank you councillor

33:19Downer than busatil

33:22Hi through you mr. Mayor, so I want to continue the um

33:29Uh, mr. Marco Longo the the discussion of the model which isn't clear to me particularly and I really appreciate the breezy breakfast last week hosting the better tent city

33:39Folks that would have been involved in that

33:41But they did talk about two different kind of models really there's a better tent city where

33:47They identified that 30 people had been there from the beginning and that they had no intention of leaving that they would be permanent

33:54Residents there for as long as they want

33:56There was no push to put them out because that's what they wanted and and they indicated that they had a right to live there

34:02And I'm not judging that as wrong or right, but that's what they determined

34:06And then there's the herb street model, which is more people are are

34:12you know

34:13They basically it is identified as a transition into either support of a permanent housing and there's nobody going to be living there permanently

34:22So

34:23From my so i'm trying to get a handle on so is this

34:27If you're and and you keep talking about the better tent city models

34:31So are we potentially looking actually at a permanent?

34:35Shelter because it's it's not really homes. These are these are shelter spaces. It's like what you've said

34:41So are these permanent shelter spaces for some people?

34:45And that they would be able to allow to stay there as long as they want

34:50Through you may or got through to counselor

34:53Downer

34:55um

34:56No, that's that's a great question. I think in terms of a better tent city

35:00We gravitated towards their model because it's community led. It's the only community led

35:06Project in Ontario so that that appeals to us in terms of their approach

35:12You're you know, you're looting fact. There's only I think a couple residents that have moved on

35:16to

35:17Permanent supportive or 17 they said. Yeah, no, that's the herb street site

35:22um a better to see the numbers even lower

35:2517 is for the herb street site so the

35:30You know, I'm kind of letting in on a secret here

35:32but we are actually looking for a location for a

35:36Our our project that where we can start as a tiny homes project, but we can involve to permanent supportive

35:43because we are

35:45inspired by

35:47The fact that herb street is able to move a lot more people

35:49But we're inspired by a better tent city in terms of there's a strong community there and there's uh, it's community led

35:56and it's a fiscally responsible approach to

36:01Delivering the project so you're looking

36:04For a supportive housing it took more into a supportive housing model

36:09What would that be aspiration? Okay, then wouldn't that be then part of the continuum anyway because supportive housing is part of it

36:18So we're looking for a site where we can start as a tiny homes community

36:21Which would be a shelter as the funding comes forward as you know, the planning approvals happen

36:26We want to be advocates for moving those residents into that supportive housing

36:31Which is much as you know much more expensive much more

36:33intensive in terms of fundraising

36:36A lot more levers to be pulled

36:39Okay, and the other thing it's sort of go i'm going to go back to councillor richardson's question

36:44um

36:46The around drug use and it's it's not that it's yes or no for me

36:51but I think it's it's not clear to me because

36:54I've heard that

36:57Certainly the better-tent city they allowed drug use

37:00They were not clear on whether they allowed drug selling or not in their discussion

37:05but they

37:06So i'm not clear whether

37:09And yet we have some some sites shelter sites that do not allow drug use and there's some that do and there's some that will allow

37:18Partners and there's some that will allow dogs

37:20So I always thought that your site was going to be more permissive and allow drug use

37:26pets and

37:28people with partners

37:30um just to clarify because it's an addictive people have addictions and they I just wanted to acknowledge that

37:36That's important. Yeah, so

37:39Through you miragat through to councillor

37:42The yeah people have addictions and and as we know most of the displays and homeless folks have

37:49significant addictions

37:51Whether it's in the shelter system, whether it's in support of housing, whether it's in subsidized housing

37:57That drug addiction happens

37:59The drug addiction happens in rolling hills. The drug addiction happens in your neighborhood, right?

38:05but we

38:07We stigmatize it because it's a city site. I'm not clear like on the criticism there

38:13The the reality is

38:15A better-tent city. Yeah, there's drug use within the units. There's no drug use in the public spaces

38:21Okay, um

38:22the

38:25I we've spoken internally about drug use and and so on

38:31That you know, there would not be drug use or

38:34Uh drug trafficking on site

38:39um

38:41Sorry drug use in a public space or trafficking on site drug trafficking. Okay

38:46Um

38:47I think it's important to acknowledge that you know depending on privilege

38:51people get to consume drugs

38:53In either a public space or in a private space

38:56And we've relegated people to consuming in public spaces because they have no housing

39:00Exactly and and that's why I just wanted to follow up on councillor Richardson's question because I didn't hear an answer

39:06To it when you responded. So that's why I didn't it's not about yes or no

39:11So it wasn't clear to me and and that would be fine with me as well

39:15Um all of those things uh being permitted

39:19um

39:21So that was that was my questions. Mr. Marath.

39:25And just apologies to the residents of rolling hills. I didn't mean to highlight them

39:31It's a

39:33It's okay for the record. Yeah

39:36Last I have on my list is councillor pucitil please

39:41Yes, uh to echo some of my colleagues and through the mayor. Thank you very much for all of the community's collective work on this

39:47And I think you've answered my question already

39:50Before coming here. I was volunteering at the food hub speaking to volunteers and some

39:55Individuals who are living rough as well. And when I talk about a very plain language. I say

40:02picture a vacant space

40:04And what the tiny home is

40:07Something that is safe to live in while the house is being built or while something

40:12And we all have the privilege of being able to do that whether it's a cottage or a house or whatever for me

40:17This is about uh our most vulnerable in the community having the opportunity rather than having to be

40:24Unsafe living rough while while you know the wheels of government turn and funding. Is that kind of a fair picture?

40:32Through your mayor. That's correct. Yeah, and it because people have their own space

40:37Um, and they're getting the wraparound supports

40:40They're not concerned about having the possessions stolen. They can live in the unit with a partner

40:46they

40:48At that point they may want to start, you know addressing their addiction. Maybe even looking for a job

40:55Thank you and through the mayor. That's all

40:58Thank you. And one addition uh, mica is councillor Klassen

41:02Yes, uh, thank you through you mr. Mayor

41:05Uh to the delegate

41:07I

41:08You know, I hear you know the pot. Let's pause and

41:12Wait till hopefully a potential site comes available

41:16um, but my concern remains regarding

41:19Uh, what's going to happen this winter? So we are hitting pause now, which means that you know a potential solution

41:26Will not come to fruition for this winter

41:29So my question is is when the time comes as we approach winter

41:33Can we count on the tiny homes coalition to help advocate?

41:38For better support for folks living rough this winter

41:43Through your mayor guthier to

41:45council clausen

41:47You can certainly count on us. I think what what you're seeing in this room today

41:52You're seeing a community that wants to help out in in so many ways

41:58um, you're seeing folks that uh

42:01Are are saying, you know, we can do better as a community

42:05I do want to just

42:07Pull the correct you. We're not pausing today is is a moment for council to decide. Is this a viable model?

42:14And do you want to move forward with it?

42:16Um, so I would I would say we're gaining momentum. Hopefully

42:20um, depending on your vote

42:22So I encourage you to to keep going. Um, because the our community needs, uh, hope, uh, and you know

42:29Um, a motion

42:33For us to move forward together means that uh, then we will be advocating with you. Um, and with the county and others to uh, to

42:43A respectable winter plan in place

42:46Thank you

42:48Uh, caron, please and then I have a follow-up with council or work

42:52Great. Thank you. And and thank I really applaud what the coalition as soon as due

42:57Two different current questions from my colleague. Um, was whether this was going to be a regular or standard part the housing continuum

43:07on an asus and then another question was the temporary measure until we have capacity in the permanent support of housing

43:16Uh, inventory to ensure that all of our citizens citizens and house citizens have a place to live

43:24Or

43:26Answers to bar yes and yes. Yeah. So is this temporary or is this permanent flow through?

43:35for uh

43:37Come part of our housing housing continuum because in my mind the model that we're talking is temporary that we're we're going to

43:46create this

43:48Shelter

43:50form

43:51Until such time as we have capacity and supportive housing and then that shelter form will hear from the continuum continuum

43:59Escape and are the other

44:05Through your merry-go-thru. Sorry. You were breaking up there. I'm not clear on the question

44:12So sorry about that bring two different messages

44:15That this is a permanent part of the heart of the house continuum

44:19Even though it's a flow flow through

44:21Yeah, and the second is that no, this is a temporary measure

44:27We have permanent supportive housing for all of our unhoused

44:32Is it temporary or is a permanent part of the housing continuum?

44:38Through your merry-go-thru to council caron

44:44I think you know part of the the difficult

44:47You know in terms of answering the question is I cannot predict if our housing crisis is going to get worse or better with time

44:54it's like trying to

44:56You know speculate on on interest rates. Will they keep going up? Are they going to come down in the next year?

45:03And so on so

45:04We're we're trying to address a societal issue here that is beyond our control

45:10In terms of our aspiration

45:12We're hoping that it will be temporary in terms of

45:16Trying to get as many people into permanent supportive

45:19But you know the the thing that I think we need to wrap our heads around as well is

45:24Tiny homes is that because people are housed individually

45:29It's it's also a built structure. We could in theory also have

45:34at you know individual units

45:38Like a low density individual units

45:41That is a permanent supportive approach

45:44Where folks for instance to have pets

45:48That are maybe difficult

45:50They live in those units on the permanent supportive housing site

45:54Um other residents live in more of a a shelledale high rise scenario. So, you know, let's

46:02Is this different ways of looking at it? Um, you could look at tiny homes as as a as a built form as well

46:10All right, just as a follow-up to that sound better

46:13Does that sound better now?

46:15Not really, but we'll we'll bear with you. No, um counselor caron

46:19You know, I this this actually this is funny that it's happening. Well, it's not funny, but it's actually happening

46:24This is the second time now

46:26We maybe all thought it was a glitch the last time but this is actually a repeat of what happened at the last council meeting

46:32The only best way I can describe it is you sound like max headroom

46:37It coming through if we recall what that's like the so it's glitching and doubling your words

46:43So, um, that's not your fault. It's obviously an it issue. So it's definitely not your fault

46:48But uh, try keep trying again as you as you continue to talk. I think we're getting the gist of what you're you're saying for sure

46:56I'm just

46:58I want to get my question over the model

47:01Correct. And this is where I'm struggling and so apologize for the indulgence

47:07If this is a temporary for housing until we have

47:12unit supportive housing in the community

47:15I think I think the use of public land for it

47:19If we're talking about a more permanent form of housing where this stay on sunsight

47:26potentially in perpetuity for or for an own period of time time

47:32The model to me is a different model than this this becomes a part in the decision on where to put

47:40Um, it is a completely different decision. So I'm I'm asking the scheme the speed in the form question whether or not this is truly

47:51Such a permanent situation situation, I recognize I'm getting a partial issue answer

47:56So I after Mark along with if I'm coming back back for a clear black or blaster to that question

48:02But if you if you are able to help me, yep

48:06I guess

48:07Again through your mayor got through to council Coran

48:11Council Coran, I'm going to speak to the historian in you and maybe you'll appreciate it from this perspective

48:16the

48:17The reality around supportive housing and social services is that it evolves with time

48:23You I'm sure you know about the poor houses and poor farms

48:27From the 19th century those no longer exist those models have evolved

48:33In the same way, you know today we have a model that we think is relevant to this community

48:39We're saying it's a pilot model. We're going to evolve with the model

48:42Maybe five years down the road. It's no longer relevant

48:45But we need to take that journey and find out

48:48How it will change and hopefully become obsolete

48:56Okay, thanks

48:58Great. Thank you councillor Caron

49:01Um, I did say that I had a follow-up with ororque and I've got another follow-up

49:06with councillor Allt

49:09Thanks, maga three three you to mr. Marco Longo just a quick question about the funding model

49:13So we've talked about what the vision is

49:15And it sounds like it's a vision that's an evolution potentially depending on the land and the context

49:23But the funding model that I have in front of me

49:25um shows the city

49:28should cover capital 45 of the capital costs

49:31and

49:33potentially land

49:34And the annual operating costs would also be covered by the city of gulf

49:39so when we don't

49:41We don't provide operating costs for a bunch of organizations in the city that do terrific work

49:49um

49:49I'm just wondering is this the expectation of the tiny homes coalition that the city would cover all the operating costs

49:58um through you maria gathie

50:00I'm not clear on the question. Is it about the capital costs or just operating at this point? So both

50:05Right, so we don't do operating costs

50:09At graze gardens at hope house at other places. We may fund through community benefit agreements. We might fund a program

50:16But we don't fund operating costs um in

50:20Anywhere that are social services

50:23So we we need to understand what the ask is

50:27Um before we can endorse the model because part of it is also your funding model

50:32Sure, so it's through you maria gathie great question

50:35Again, um

50:38Those conversations will evolve with time

50:41if it's a it's a contribution agreement that we need to arrive at in order to

50:45um

50:46To assist with the the operating side if it's something that's not eligible

50:51We will work with staff and council to identify the best sources for that funding

50:56The reality is uh, there's funding that that's

50:59Worth coming we hope from the federal government. Maybe the province. We don't know for the capital cost

51:04It means that we can then offset those cap of that capital fundraising

51:08um, the the idea today is

51:10We're asking council to put a line in the sand in terms of this is something that we should be pursuing

51:16um

51:16The the details on fundraising the details around the funding envelopes that can come later and we're confident we can achieve that

51:26in terms of the priorities, um, I think you're alluding to the fact that um, you know some

51:31Uh service providers social services organizations, um charitable organizations others

51:37Um, you know, you're not funding as as per a city budget. Um, they maybe have come asking for

51:45support

51:47um

51:48We're here because we think that uh

51:51The housing crisis is an issue and it's affecting the most vulnerable in a way that we haven't seen in the city

51:56And that it should be a priority for us

51:58um, so

52:01As decision makers

52:03This is an important decision. Is this a priority?

52:07And if if it is then

52:09We need to do leadership

52:15Okay, and last I think I'm circling back to councillor alton then we can move on to our our next delegation

52:20Go ahead councillor. Thank you, mayor Guthrie. I will be brief through you

52:24I've heard many discussions of the housing continuum and just a quick question

52:29I believe that uh

52:31Tiny homes are part of the housing continuum across canada that we're seeing in places like peterborough out east kitchen waterloo

52:38And in british columbia. Am I correct in that?

52:42That is through you mayor. Guthrie. That is correct in some jurisdiction. It is part of the continuum

52:47Thank you. Um, i'm gonna

52:53Not let you go yet

52:54councillor uh

52:56councillor downer

52:57So the continue the housing continuum was developed by the province and the freds and it was to do with the service model

53:05So where are they fitting so they they couldn't have changed those municipalities couldn't have changed the continuum

53:12As it stands. So how are they fitting into it?

53:15Three, you may go through to council downer

53:17I'm gonna let another speaker like jeff wilmer who's speaking on

53:21Their their model in a project speak to that again. I'm not I don't work in the sector

53:26So I couldn't speak to the provincial approach and how it's it's uh interpreted by municipalities. Okay, great. Thank you

53:37Okay, I have 11 questions. No, I'm just

53:43I'm heading for the door. Yeah

53:45Mike, thank you very much appreciate it. Yeah, we'll go on to our next delegation

53:49So I'm going to go back to the top of the list here and I think as uh as uh those delegates are coming down and for

53:55The others either here in the room or listening online

53:59Uh, I think I'd just like to highlight just one more time that

54:03The reason why mike went first is to set the stage and to set the tone of kind of what the discussion is about today

54:09Um with an acknowledgement that you know, they're they're not quite ready yet on site selection and or how

54:17Things are going to operate as if we were trying to do

54:21potentially today and so

54:23It's kind of veered a little bit to more, uh, you know

54:26Still trying to get some momentum and get some commitment and and and stuff behind the scenes on this issue

54:32but uh and for us to determine today as well potentially

54:36But um, I think it's just important that that context is in place first before the rest of the delegations come up

54:42So there's some alignment there as people are speaking on the issue. Okay, so thank you for coming

54:48To all three of you christin curr howlin fishburn mark walton. I you got five minutes. Uh, don't let me cut you off

54:55Go ahead

54:59Thank you so much mayor Guthrie

55:01So we're here representing our healthcare partners

55:04And of course as healthcare partners we want to wrap around our housing and homelessness partners

55:10We're all here really to uh speak to the need that's in our community and to really urge

55:18And ask the city to support this

55:21structured encampment model

55:23so

55:24We're honored to be part of an amazing group of partners in the community. There's a supporting

55:30A lot of really complex need. We've talked about the need. You've all seen it as well

55:35We're also really proud to be partnering with royal city mission. Who's one of our trusted partners

55:41but we really want to

55:43emphasize to the council that

55:47We really need some options before

55:49The winter months come. We know there's been a bit of pause. There's more information that's needed. That's just been unpacked

55:55But we need to really lean into this complex need in our community

56:01We definitely support this model. We want to be clear about that

56:06Why do we support it because we need more options? This is not a one-size-fit all

56:11Community and the needs are very complex and diverse

56:15We want to also acknowledge and really be grateful to the county of wellington for the incredible support that they've put in place

56:22There's been more housing options available

56:25Than we've ever seen before which is awesome

56:28But this this particular tiny home coalition fits well within that continuum. It gives us more options

56:35particularly for people with really diverse needs

56:39and a smaller scale down version of the model allows us to

56:43Reduce the costs of the model reduce the risks associated with a new model

56:48Allows us to try it out and see how it evolves. Micah spoken so beautifully to that

56:54So we really just want to say that as health partners

56:58We're really urging the city to do what you can within what's available within your control

57:03You have our commitment that we're going to wrap around from a health care perspective and work really closely with our housing and homelessness partners

57:11We know this isn't a perfect solution. There is no perfect solution

57:14But it does represent progress and you have our commitment that will be in this with you

57:19But we really urge you to look at what you can control within this project as well

57:29Thank you

57:29I I think one of the the questions that I keep hearing are around the services and the options there

57:34So something I'd like to reiterate is that having folks in more folks in one location is very helpful for existing service providers

57:43and for new ones and having more

57:45Structure and more options for people allows for more chance for connection to support and some of those wraparound services

57:52So one of the strengths of a tiny this of a tiny homes model or a structured encampment model

57:58Is that it allows a place for health service providers to go and access the full service the full continuum of services

58:04This is much of the work. We're doing already is to do outreach to

58:08encampments and individuals and this this would be helpful in terms of concentrating things in one place

58:15I also I want to reiterate again that having more options

58:19Increases the chance of connection to service for these folks the more structure we have the more chance there is there's to build

58:25relationship and to allow for different choices and options for them along this way

58:29I too want to acknowledge that the county is making significant strides in providing more

58:35Shelter transitional and permanent supportive housing options the report that you have as part of this meeting today outlines that

58:43And that's that is a great plan that we are working towards

58:47And we need to be having an option as much as possible for this winter

58:52And ensuring that we continue to have options for individuals in our community

58:58And thank you through you mr. Mayor just to say

59:01We are here symbolically as part of the larger health system

59:06We established very early in this trajectory that housing is health health is housing

59:12We are firmly behind this as a model, but also as an initiative

59:17Through our collective voices we can help amplify the need for this and

59:22To the questions of funding etc one of the things we found very very

59:27helpful with our permanent affordable housing

59:29Sheldale was our collective voices together. So we just want to say again as your health partners in this housing

59:37Challenge that we are here together to speak together and we'll continue to work with the tiny homes coalition to make sure that this gets refined and

59:45Ultimately implemented well. So thank you

59:49Great. Thank you to the three of you alt and then downer and then or orc and then kate

59:55Thank you very much

59:58Through you mr. Mayor to

1:00:00One of the three amigos. Uh, mizker

1:00:03mizker from my days on stonehenge

1:00:06Board, uh, I reflect on some of the people that we we served at stonehenge

1:00:12And I was wondering if you could please outline what the benefits of tiny homes might be to some of those who are either exiting stonehenge

1:00:20Or might require stonehenge. Are we in a position where?

1:00:25Not to be clear that claustrophobia or other accessibility related impediments might mean that the tiny homes model works better than say

1:00:35housing in

1:00:36Temporary housing in a in a hotel or a place even with a with a corridor. Yeah

1:00:41I thank you councillor Allt

1:00:43I think what we need to recognize here is that there is no one-size-fits-all solution to

1:00:47Individuals who are using substances all of us enjoy choices in our life as do people who are looking to access substance use treatment

1:00:54And for individuals who have been

1:00:56Experiencing homelessness for an extended period of time the transition into very highly structured housing is very difficult

1:01:03This is something we deal with regularly with folks who are coming from being living rough into an apartment of their own

1:01:10There's a lot of special support that needs to work to

1:01:14Support them to be successful in that

1:01:16So a structure encampment or a tiny homes option gives people a transitional option

1:01:20It gives them a chance to try something that with a little bit less structure around it

1:01:24But more structure than they're used to to help them begin to build those skills

1:01:29Build those connections and look at what might be possible from there

1:01:33You look as though i've confused you

1:01:35i'm going to follow up with that because

1:01:38I appreciate the statements, but i was wondering if you could give me some

1:01:41specific

1:01:42examples of impediments that there might be it sounds like what you're talking about is

1:01:46We're walking up a ladder on the housing continuum. The problem is the first rung for many people who's already broken and so I just want to

1:01:53And what yeah, thank you

1:01:55What I would say because i'm going to tell you a story actually because I feel like that will help to

1:01:59Highlight this can tell you the story of an individual who we had been working with at Stonehenge who had been living rough for a number of years

1:02:06We were able to secure him an apartment through through our support of housing

1:02:09so not at Sheldale but a standalone unit

1:02:12And the transition from being in his community in a tent with his folks that he knew

1:02:17Into an apartment all on his own was really hard. It was very quiet. It was scary. It was uncomfortable

1:02:24We take it for granted that being an apartment would make everything easier and better

1:02:27But in fact it was a very difficult transition

1:02:30And so our staff worked with him and in fact put up his tent in the living room

1:02:34And he put all of his belongings inside of his tent there and for a number of weeks stayed in his apartment in his tent

1:02:40Because he felt a safe a sense of security and familiarity and support in that environment

1:02:44And over time was able to transition himself out

1:02:47Of that tent and into his apartment and is now successfully living within that apartment

1:02:52And I tell this story to say we take it for granted that if we can just get people housed they'll be fine

1:02:58But that's not the case and so it is why we need options

1:03:00We need support that associated that is associated with those options to help them to be successful with that transition

1:03:07Thank you very much

1:03:10Downer than or work

1:03:13Thank you through you mr. Mayor. So I

1:03:15You you talked about the um

1:03:17The wrap around services and I should have asked mr. Mark along go that but I don't know whether the wrap around services

1:03:24Supports are included in that

1:03:26600 and something

1:03:28approximately

1:03:30Operating but it took us like quite a while to get

1:03:35that

1:03:36there the wrap around supports for the

1:03:40Kindle project

1:03:42And all three projects

1:03:45So i'm just wondering I mean

1:03:48I can't imagine that the city's the city was very clear that they could not fund that kind of operating the wrap around mental health and addiction

1:03:54supports

1:03:56So are you in a position to be able to as a is the service?

1:04:01social services in the city

1:04:03able to provide those wrap around services within your existing budgets

1:04:09Uh while you wait for the province to possibly step up. Thank you councillor danner

1:04:14I'm going to make a distinction for you between 24 7 supports and wraparound health services supports

1:04:20Which is an important distinction to be made so 24 7 support looks like people on site to provide

1:04:26informal support

1:04:28connection relationship building safety

1:04:31Uh wrap around health services look like what our organizations do now

1:04:36Which is to have outreach individuals doing outreach to encampments to individuals downtown

1:04:41We all have staffing positions who are doing this currently

1:04:44So one of the things we'd be looking to do is how we can coordinate that

1:04:48Existing service to provide this support here in an encampment as well

1:04:53So we wouldn't be looking at so it's not the same kind of wrap around

1:04:58mental health addiction and social support set that are currently happening

1:05:03at the other

1:05:04projects that we have in the city

1:05:07It's a different it's a staffing support of and the outreach the same kind of outreach that we're having at the encampments now

1:05:14Correct and when I referred to my earlier comments saying these are our people

1:05:18They are literally the people who are currently supporting right so we'll continue to do that. It'll be much easier more efficient

1:05:25In safer to provide it in a coalition a tiny homes coalition environment, right where it's structured supported

1:05:31And we're all there working together on top of that royal city mission willing to put their hand up and being the glue

1:05:38For this project in terms of care being that

1:05:42Organization that helps and works with us to pull us in as needed to communicate to just provide that ongoing

1:05:51Continuum of communication and care

1:05:53We work really closely with them and really well with them as health providers

1:05:57So it's it's really a it's like a symphony orchestra. We all play our instruments, but together it really is quite beautiful

1:06:04Yeah, no, I've heard that so I don't appreciate that. That's what happens

1:06:08So i'm glad you've made a distinction between what kind of wrap around supports or having

1:06:12Is there a way we can verbally make that distinction because I think

1:06:16All of us on council we hear the word wrap around supports and we automatically think of the kind of supports that the province is

1:06:23It's funding at shelledale or the other projects that with the health and and the addiction supports

1:06:30And that's not quite the same as the wrap around supports that are happening here

1:06:34Is there a terminology in

1:06:37In the social services field that can distinguish those two so that we're very clear in our language around that

1:06:43Great question. I think what I would suggest is that that's some of what

1:06:48The tiny homes coalition is looking to pause on will they continue to develop

1:06:51Is my understanding of part of what we're talking about today so we can be clear on what the

1:06:57Model will be in terms of that. I think

1:07:00There's a different, you know, I would suggest health services and

1:07:05Housing services are probably the most

1:07:07distinct language

1:07:09Um housing being and I even that's a bit accurate. So I guess they sorry i'm blubbering to answer your question

1:07:14But really the yeah, which is to say there isn't necessarily a shared language

1:07:18That would be that but I think that there's a distinction between 24 7 supports and health services

1:07:23That would be probably the best. Yeah, okay. So I just want to be clear that around

1:07:29About this shuttle because I don't think there's wrap around services say at at at the north folk

1:07:34Old Norfolk manner that we don't have that that's a shelter system too or at 23 north folk

1:07:39It's it's temporary sheltered housing and I'm sure you have outreach workers that

1:07:44That visit those locations too I think it was important for the three of us to show up today

1:07:48So that you say that you see our commitment and that you know, we are

1:07:53Embedded in this project and willing to continue to work as it evolves

1:07:57So that's important for us to be here and for you to see that level of commitment and again, we'll work this out

1:08:04Yeah, if I may mr. Mayor through you to councillor downer. I think

1:08:10We struggle in general in both health and social and community services often with those definitions

1:08:16This is not atypical. It's a Venn diagram in some ways. There's overlaps between there are some that are very distinct in all sectors

1:08:24Um, but our desire is actually to help bring clarity to this and through the tiny homes coalition

1:08:30We have a model

1:08:31Against which we can start to provide some of these definitions. So I think it is an evolving language. It's involving understanding

1:08:39And it also needs to be reflective of the community it's serving because what works in Toronto doesn't necessarily work in golf

1:08:46Doesn't necessarily work in london

1:08:48So that language that lexicon will evolve as we do

1:08:54Okay, great. Thank you

1:08:56Thank you or work and then kateen

1:08:59Thank you, margaret through you to our delegates. Thank you very much first for all the work you do in the community

1:09:04And also in the context of your delegation today

1:09:07I'm I'm just curious

1:09:10Because we know that some

1:09:12Additional shelter spaces but also some additional temporary supportive housing spaces are coming online in the fall or early winter

1:09:19So ten shelledale delhi 23 gordon will have temporary supportive housing, right?

1:09:25With some of the the services that I think you're describing

1:09:29So I'm wondering

1:09:31Um, and now like the whole question about the scope of the issue

1:09:34um

1:09:35Kind of blurs it a little bit for me

1:09:38But why would those the opening of those three facilities not be sufficient in the short term?

1:09:44Right while the model is better developed while while we could see what the funding model would be what the game plan is

1:09:52Why aren't those really like why aren't those good enough?

1:09:57There aren't enough of them is the short answer for that question. So you're right. We have made significant progress as a community

1:10:04Over the last year and a half in terms of providing more permanent supportive housing options and 65 delhi will be coming online

1:10:12Which will provide more transitional as well as gordon

1:10:15In the county support you'll see there are a lot of options coming which is great

1:10:18And they are making significant strides towards that

1:10:21And there is still a portion of the population particularly for this winter who will not have options

1:10:27And who will be looking for a place to be?

1:10:32I would just also add that

1:10:35We're not in the business of crystal balling. So we just really don't know what else it might come our way

1:10:42I mean, we never thought we'd be here frankly

1:10:45The pandemic the baseline if need is shifted. We've never gone back to pre-pandemic baselines. This is the new normal

1:10:52We now have a housing crisis and affordability crisis. Who knows what's next?

1:10:56Like we just don't know so planning for just the right amount. It doesn't feel like the right business decision

1:11:02We also know that tiny homes are a much better option than hotel spaces

1:11:08Under bridges and you know downtown streets

1:11:11So we really want to provide folks dignity and respect and and give us a chance to be able to wrap around and help these folks

1:11:20Okay

1:11:22I appreciate the response through you mergar through just a couple more questions. I'm really glad to hear about

1:11:27Coordinating the outreach. There's lots of different organizations that are doing outreach at different times and in different ways

1:11:33So I'm really glad to hear about that

1:11:35And it makes a lot of sense that it's easier to provide the health services in a place that sort of establish and not having to

1:11:40trek into the forest I get that

1:11:44I am you know

1:11:47We don't have unlimited resources and so how do you feel about a decision today?

1:11:54When we don't know what the ask or outcomes will be of the health and housing symposium, right?

1:12:00That we we know those tables are meeting. We know there will be asks

1:12:03So I I have a a concern about

1:12:07And I understand the scope of the issue

1:12:09um

1:12:11What's your sense in terms of planning for budget and community resources?

1:12:17Uh with this proposal and then with the ones that are to come

1:12:23Again, I know you don't have a crystal ball. I got I got that the second the first time

1:12:29Through you mayor to councillor orork

1:12:31um

1:12:32It's a very valid question and I I can imagine that this feels very ethereal in some ways. We're trying to

1:12:39I had a mentor that used to talk about nailing jello to a wall

1:12:42It's very difficult for us to find the form that around which we can rally

1:12:46um

1:12:47But I think what we have seen and through the good work of the coalition but also through the good work of people in this space

1:12:54We know this is a viable model in other communities. So it's been proven

1:12:59The real question is can it be adapted to our use?

1:13:03And how do we best optimize it for use in guelph today guelph wellington today?

1:13:09It's my belief

1:13:11And i'm only speaking for myself at this point in time not on behalf of my delegates

1:13:16Is that it's often easier to start with something than a blank sheet of paper?

1:13:20And I do believe that the fundamental structures that this provides based on the principles and

1:13:27sort of this notion of

1:13:29Of equity and fairness, etc as part of the housing philosophy

1:13:35Will allow us to evaluate what works in this model

1:13:40What doesn't work in this model?

1:13:41And I think what you're hearing from all of us is to suggest that

1:13:45We're willing to provide input into this so that we in turn can plan our services

1:13:50As this evolves and I have to say in this day and age in health care

1:13:55And I will say in community and housing

1:13:58It is a constantly shifting and dynamic environment

1:14:02The assumptions that we have today when we're planning as an example in our hospital

1:14:06Are not the same in three months. And so we're continually adapting to external environmental pressures, etc

1:14:13And I think

1:14:14The benefit of receiving an endorsement around this model is it tells us this is our anchor point

1:14:20This is where we start rather than looking at a myriad

1:14:24Hundreds of other options now

1:14:25I fully expect that the housing symposium and the conversations that are flowing from that

1:14:31Will generate ideas, etc

1:14:34But they will not address this specific need

1:14:37I believe that they will address a number of other things and this is a good place for us to start on this specific population

1:14:44And again rather than starting with a blank page. It gives us at least a foundational element upon which we can build

1:14:49Okay, thanks

1:14:53Okay, thank you

1:14:55And last is katin

1:14:57Thank you through you mr. Mayor to the delegates

1:15:00Um, so I personally have an environmental sensitivity where I react pretty badly to perfumes

1:15:05And I wouldn't be able to stay in a hotel if that was my option between a tent and a hotel

1:15:10and

1:15:11I'm just wondering from your experience as providers

1:15:14How does this model address different accessibility or personal situation?

1:15:21circumstances that the other other existing models don't address currently

1:15:28Thank you councillor. I I think again, I fall back to the the option of choice

1:15:33Right that this would provide another option for individuals so that they can

1:15:39Have their accessibility needs met

1:15:41It is something we all do every day is to look at how can our services be

1:15:45adapted to meet the needs of individuals who are looking to access them and choice is a big part of that

1:15:51So this would allow for another option for individuals along that front

1:15:55Right, thank you very much

1:15:59Thank you councillor and thank you to our delegates. I appreciate it. Thank you

1:16:04Okay, uh and moving along now on video be jeff wilmer

1:16:10So just wondering jeff if you can uh join us and

1:16:14If you could try your audio and turn on your video for me

1:16:27Hi jeff. It's uh, mayor guthrie. I can see you. Do you want to just try your audio?

1:16:32Good afternoon, mayor guthrie

1:16:33Okay, you're coming through great. Thank you very much for joining us and you have no more than five minutes

1:16:38To give your delegation. So welcome and i'll turn it over to you

1:16:42We're good. Thank you very much for making time for me. My name is jeff wilmer

1:16:45I am a retired city planner and i'm one of the organizers with a better-tent city in kitchens

1:16:52We are now a registered not-for-profit corporation

1:16:56A better-tent city is a tiny homes community

1:17:0042 tiny homes 50 residents

1:17:02We are situated on public land part of it is owned by the city of kitchens part of it's owned by the public school board

1:17:09We've been up and running for about four years now and

1:17:13We have had 50 residents for most of that time some have moved on to to supportive housing

1:17:20But many have have been with us since the beginning

1:17:24Um

1:17:25We originally started out uh because we saw that there were people living rough in the streets of kitchens waterloo and in parks and woodlots

1:17:33And and we realized that while the shelter system does good work. It doesn't

1:17:38It doesn't

1:17:39Accommodate everybody and there are some people who have either been

1:17:43Restricted from using the shelter because of disruptive conduct or they've chosen not to go back to it if they've had a bad experience there

1:17:51And so we thought you know these people need help and this is an option that could help them

1:17:56What we didn't realize is how effective it would be at building community

1:18:01That people who are transitioning from living rough not only have the stability and dignity of of a house of their own

1:18:09And and meals and health care and access to services and laundry and showers

1:18:15But they also now have friends and neighbors and family and they're learning how to be good neighbors

1:18:20And so we see a

1:18:22Substantial difference in the in the way those people are interacting with each other

1:18:27Over time as they as they become part of that community. And so that's something that has exceeded our expectations

1:18:35To tell you a little bit about

1:18:37The our relationship with local government in in the early days

1:18:41We really did not have a connection with waterloo region again similar to wealth

1:18:45Gwalf Wellington. We're a two-tier municipal system

1:18:48The city of kitchens are actually was was helpful to us in terms of regulatory flexibility

1:18:54And in helping provide a site

1:18:56the region actually came around about two years into our existence to

1:19:01To come to appreciate that I think we had started to prove the model by that time

1:19:05We had been up and running for two years

1:19:07And they liked it well enough that they are now they have sort of replicated it themselves and the herb street model

1:19:13Just outside of waterloo is on

1:19:16public land owned by the region of waterloo

1:19:19Funded the capital and operating costs are funded by the region of waterloo

1:19:23And that's been up and running for more than a year now

1:19:25Um peter burrow similarly on it's all on public land and that's been up and running. I think since since late last year

1:19:33So so I think you know the fact that we've been doing this for four years and it and it's helping people

1:19:38For whom other options really weren't working

1:19:41Um

1:19:42speaks to the idea that more

1:19:44Options are needed people have complex needs and if there's a range of different options then then we can we can help people who otherwise were

1:19:53Um being left out in the cold quite literally

1:19:56um

1:19:57So so when it comes to the the regulatory flexibility that I mentioned

1:20:01Um

1:20:03There's actually two ways that that has worked to benefit a better tan city

1:20:07Uh at our very first site

1:20:09We

1:20:10Had a building with kitchen and washrooms in it

1:20:13So all we really needed to do was bring in the sleeping cabins

1:20:17And they're all small enough that they did not need building permits small buildings without plumbing

1:20:22And so the the only regulation issue was do we comply with the zoning bylaw or not?

1:20:28And in that case the city decided to waive enforcement of the zoning bylaw

1:20:33That allowed us to remain in a residential or sorry in an industrial area

1:20:37Although we were a residential use

1:20:39Um fast forward to where we are now

1:20:42um, and now we are

1:20:45Uh considered a public use or a public service. So our partnership with the city and the region

1:20:51Uh allows them to

1:20:55Implement a section of the zoning bylaw where a public use or a public service is permitted in any zone

1:21:02So that

1:21:03avoided the potentially difficult situation of us supplying for official plan amendments and zoning bylaws

1:21:10zoning bylaw amendments

1:21:13And I say challenging because while lots of people like the idea of a better tan city and see that it's helpful

1:21:19Most people don't want it as their immediate neighbor

1:21:22And so it's foreseeable that if you go and ask the community, you know, would you like the zoning to be changed?

1:21:27People are going to say no

1:21:29And they're probably even going to take that to appeal even if the municipality were to approve it

1:21:35So I think what what we have appreciated and I think water to region and city of kitchens are on the same page is that

1:21:43If you find a site that works

1:21:45and the municipality is supportive as a partner even a nominal partner, um, then

1:21:50considering this a public use

1:21:52Makes a lot of sense so that you don't go through the

1:21:56The turmoil of of of a zoning change application

1:22:00Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Jeff. Uh, your your time limit is there. I just wanted to make sure you got to finish your sentence

1:22:08Uh, counselor downer, please

1:22:11Thank you through you, uh, mr. Mayor

1:22:14So, uh, mr. Mark along will suggest as I asked here about the question about the housing continuum

1:22:19So do you fit in the region of water lose?

1:22:23Well, there's just one housing continuum model in Ontario, but how does your

1:22:29The better tent city fit into that or even the herb street

1:22:33model

1:22:35Yeah, so I have to admit I don't get too

1:22:37involved in terminology

1:22:40um

1:22:40We're we're more boots on the ground type of an organization, but um, I think the relevance of it is

1:22:47the residents themselves the 50 residents

1:22:51Do pay their their shelter allowance portion of their support payments to a better tent city

1:22:57And so the people that administer ontario works or ontario disability support program

1:23:02Do feel that we are a legitimate

1:23:05recipient of that

1:23:07Um as as part of of the housing and shelter continuum

1:23:11Um, so I don't know if that answers your question or not

1:23:14Well that it does in some ways so you you don't

1:23:17Need to feel you don't the better tent city doesn't feel like it has to fit into that housing continuum

1:23:23It's his own entity onto itself. It doesn't rely on federal or provincial funding

1:23:29um to operate

1:23:32Right although the the source of the ow and odsp shelter allowance is is the province

1:23:37So I think that someone somewhere along the line must have deemed us to to fit within that continuum so that

1:23:44the the the shelter allowance can be

1:23:47Paid to us and and that happened very early in the process and and has not been an issue since

1:23:53Yeah, so the county in our situation has

1:23:57You know has said that they would work with the better tent city on that issue. Okay. Thank you. Thank you

1:24:05Thank you, jeff. I don't see any other further questions at this time, but thanks for joining us. We appreciate it and thanks for your work too

1:24:12Thank you very much

1:24:16all right

1:24:18Kevin call hill is here from royal city uh mission

1:24:22In person so uh come on down

1:24:38Thanks, kevin come on up and whenever you're ready the green light will go on there and then whenever you're ready you can start

1:24:46Thank you, mr. Mayor

1:24:48The guelph tiny homes coalition is an agreement in principle with royal city mission to provide basic services while also coordinating health and social service providers

1:24:56With wraparound supports to assist residents of the community

1:25:00And so we've proposed a service provision framework one that has human rights and harm reduction based there's four steps

1:25:07We begin with shelter. This is about safety and security for the resident

1:25:12We know that we all need to feel secure. We all need to feel safe in our spaces

1:25:17Knowing that we are secure leads to rest and stability

1:25:20stabilization

1:25:22And that's the beginning of stability. No need to carry your belongings

1:25:26around all day

1:25:27Or try to find space to hide them so that nobody else takes them

1:25:33Moving people into a central site that has 24 seven supports and housing

1:25:38Will bring stability for the people staying there and this will create more efficient service delivery for health services and will allow us to do

1:25:44housing focused work

1:25:46In this step, we navigate resident agreements, which includes code of conduct for the site

1:25:52Step two, we ensure basic needs. This is further stabilization

1:25:57People have shelter food water sanitation a place to go to the washroom to shower

1:26:04Support we support individuals efforts to access other services like healthcare mental health services

1:26:10even to do laundry

1:26:12This is where partnerships come in cmha ch

1:26:16chc windham house stonehenge sanguine

1:26:18Etc these health partners all have access to all of the addiction services from harm reduction to treatment and already are helping those who are struggling

1:26:28Step three build community

1:26:30Or as I like to say create a sense of home

1:26:33There will be meals in communal space for social interaction weekly check-ins for each resident with goal settings

1:26:39We will develop community agreements. How is the community participating make?

1:26:43Guelph tiny homes coalition home for themselves and for others

1:26:47We learn each other's stories and we act around common interest

1:26:52This is creating a sense of home a sense of belonging a sense of being part of of being cared for

1:26:59And at rcm. We've seen the importance of this sense of home. It's really the ethos of our service plan

1:27:04It is what rcm is actually good at it's why community partners are able to connect with community members in our space

1:27:10And some might say if you make this home people won't want to leave

1:27:13But anyone who knows that or has experienced supportive family life knows that we create home for our children

1:27:19And then when they are ready they leave

1:27:21But it's not because we withheld home or care from them. It's the opposite

1:27:25They can leave because they are cared for and have a sense of home

1:27:29We say that people are homeless and we usually only offer shelter

1:27:33They might still be homeless in fact when they are sheltered. I've seen this happen again and again over the years

1:27:40People are no longer homeless when they have a sense of home

1:27:44In our own lives

1:27:45We make sure that family members feel safe and secure that they are welcome that they have everything they need to succeed before

1:27:51Sending them off

1:27:52This is the goal of this step

1:27:55And number four step is meaningful task

1:27:58Residents are required to participate in weekly chores as part of their residents agreement. This is based on the abilities of individual residents

1:28:05These could include prepping meals yard work painting etc

1:28:09Participating the upkeep of community leads to ownership and further engagement in the community

1:28:14These four steps are the framework but not the full details

1:28:17Of the plan we continue to work on this with other tiny home communities

1:28:23Right. We're connected to a once a month round table with existing communities where questions can be brought and best practice learned

1:28:30So what does that look like on the ground?

1:28:3224 7 care by staff

1:28:34Training CPR first aid and along zone de-escalation two staff always on site with a manager on call in case of emergency

1:28:42Daily meals provided through royal city mission using existing infrastructure and volunteers

1:28:47System navigation staff will have a caseload and help navigate system and paperwork needed for other services and agencies

1:28:54Community building eating together is the best way for people to develop community and that along with task creates a sense of community

1:29:01belonging and ownership

1:29:03safety and security

1:29:05Working with other tiny home groups around the province

1:29:07We are looking to them for their experience on how to deal with this the first piece around this is controlled entry and the resident agreement

1:29:15Some of the concerns around safety and security are immediately addressed by stabilization in people's lives

1:29:20Things like fire and encampments are no longer a problem because proper heating is in place

1:29:25Defocation and urination are no longer an issue for residents because they have washrooms available 24 7

1:29:31And I just need to say that the implementation of this

1:29:34cannot be done by royal city mission alone

1:29:37But only in collaboration with multiple agencies

1:29:41Thank you

1:29:42Great and thank you very much and thank you again for what you do. Is there any follow-up question?

1:29:48Okay, councillor Allt

1:29:50Thank you very much pastor co-help

1:29:53Um, a couple of questions came to mind. You made reference to a code of conduct

1:30:00And I was wondering if you could just comment on some of the concerns that I have heard from the community

1:30:05Including that this would that a place like this would just lead to concentrated drug use and anti social behavior

1:30:11If you could please so part of the code of conduct would include no drug use in public spaces

1:30:16I don't think we could control that was in their shelters, but for sure in the in the community spaces

1:30:22Okay, thank you. Now a tough question americ got through you might have to rule me out of order on this

1:30:28Um, because um pastor co-hill you come from a religious background

1:30:33Um, I'm wondering how you can reconcile the the provision of social services with the broadly ecumenical or non religious

1:30:41Um effort like this. It would it be like say st. Joseph's hospital or or or what?

1:30:48Sure

1:30:50Through you mr. Mayor to councillor Allt. I think we've uh many social services in actually gualph

1:30:56We're actually started by churches as I think salvation army

1:30:59This is not uncommon salvation army

1:31:02I think is the largest social service provider in canada when you take in consideration how many cities they're in

1:31:07This is not an uncommon practice. In fact the working center also in kitchens

1:31:12Has deep roots with the catholic workers, uh group. So sister christine like I could just keep

1:31:19Labeling this whole palace from from uh, right. I could just keep

1:31:23listing those things so

1:31:25I would say that there's lots of of a similar setup

1:31:30Thank you for that. I think that you were more comfortable

1:31:33Answering that than I was asking

1:31:36The the last question I have you made reference to controlled entry and one of my concerns is I have no issue

1:31:42In fact, I'm quite supportive of controlled entry, but what I am very concerned about is a barracks like feel

1:31:49What do you mean by controlled entry?

1:31:51Well, I think we would have uh residents sign up any guests that come on so we know who's on site

1:31:57Looking again at best practice from these other

1:31:59Other sites some sites have things like fences. Some don't there's all kinds of options

1:32:05But we're looking at best practice definitely signing in and making sure we know who's on the site

1:32:11as a first step

1:32:13Thank you very much

1:32:16Great and thank you very much as well

1:32:18appreciate it

1:32:22Okay, you got chris uh, williams, please apparently in person come on down chris

1:32:30Tamara's here too

1:32:32So in the wings come down together if you wish

1:32:53Great and did you I I mean I asked you to come down together

1:32:56But I didn't mean to try to combine the two of you. Did you want to do five minutes each?

1:33:00Sure. Yeah, perfect. All right. So, uh, I'll let you go first chris and then yeah, go ahead

1:33:08Thanks for the opportunity to speak today

1:33:11My name is chris williams. I'm a community member. I've lived in gulf most of my life. I'm a contractor and a father

1:33:19Today I'd like to share with you some information about my brother who has been experiencing homelessness off and on since he was 16 years old

1:33:27He's 34 and for the last three years. He's been living at the better tent city

1:33:33He has an eight by 10 tiny house that he shares with his partner

1:33:37They have access to bathrooms a shared kitchen showers a laundry area

1:33:42In portable buildings in his tiny home. There's a bunk beds

1:33:49Getting off trap bunk beds a storage area

1:33:53A counter slash desk and a door that locks

1:33:58The little tiny house makes him and his partner feel safe

1:34:01Uh prior to the beginning of better tent city, they were living in tents inside of a factory factory building

1:34:08With community support and it was really helpful for him

1:34:11And now he has a place to call home

1:34:14Uh, which is great. Um

1:34:16Since he's been living out of better tent city, uh, it has made it a lot easier for me to locate him

1:34:21In the past, he's always been moving around from place to place

1:34:25And for about 20 years, it's been challenging to

1:34:29Locate locate him and at times I was able to find him

1:34:33Most of the times when I'd go back maybe a week or so later, uh, he wouldn't be in the same location

1:34:42We spent a lot of time looking for him. It was very stressful for me very stressful for my family

1:34:48And uh, I really appreciate him being a better tent city

1:34:52Uh, it's a safe place for my mom, uh, and my other family members and me to go and see him

1:35:00Um

1:35:01It also gives him an opportunity to keep his uh belonging safe, uh, which does if

1:35:06Differ's from different places like the hotel or like the shelter unit or an attempt where your possessions are vulnerable

1:35:14In my brother's

1:35:16Experience he finds a lot more

1:35:19Supports in Kitchener and that's one of the reasons he's in Kitchener not in Guelph

1:35:26My brother was my best friend while I was growing up and we supported each other through many hard difficult times

1:35:33He's a good person who has been dealt some bad luck

1:35:37Despite his luck things are actually looking good

1:35:40better for him, let's say

1:35:42at the moment

1:35:44He's doing better now than anytime I can remember in the last

1:35:4920 years

1:35:51Most often when I go to better tent city, I can find him

1:35:55And it's not likely like even if I call him that I will be able to get ahold of him

1:36:01I'm a member of the tiny house or the Guelph tiny house coalition who are planning to create 25 to 50 tiny house shelter units

1:36:10With facility buildings before the winter. I believe the tiny house

1:36:13Model or tiny house shelter model is effective. My brother has benefited immensely from this option

1:36:19This is why I've joined the coalition

1:36:23I'd like to see other people have this chance

1:36:26I work with many vulnerable and unhoused people in Guelph

1:36:30through volunteering at the food bank and I do

1:36:33My own outreach to encampment suffering food clothes tents personal hygiene products blankets wood heaters

1:36:40lots of other things

1:36:42I see firsthand

1:36:44Unhoused people and how they're living and it's very unsettling

1:36:49I believe food water safety shelter

1:36:52Are a human right and I believe if people are in trouble we should give them

1:36:57We should offer that support

1:37:00is that

1:37:01city of wealth would support the Guelph tiny house coalition and help us to find

1:37:07A place for at least some people to be out of the cold this winter

1:37:12Thanks so much for the opportunity

1:37:15Great chris and thank you very much for your your personal story. Not the first time I've heard it, but

1:37:22Many many have now so appreciate

1:37:25The courage to do that. I know it's quite

1:37:28Emotional for you. So thank you. I just want to encourage you. Is there any questions for okay?

1:37:33Sorry, councillor Klassen go ahead. Yes. Thank you through you mr. Marit the delegate. Thanks chris

1:37:39Thanks for all of the work that you do in the community. It's it's really important

1:37:44I do have a question about your brother and

1:37:48His stay at better ten city. I'm just curious about

1:37:53Whether that is something that is a long-term opportunity for him. Is that somewhere he could probably be for a few years?

1:38:00Um until something else or is it something that is that could be permanent for him?

1:38:06so I think

1:38:08I think it's gonna differ with everybody with my brother. I could see him moving to a new place. He's a smart person. He's a good person he

1:38:18He's always been spending his time jumping around right being there has been stabilizing right like and I don't know how far that goes

1:38:25But it's been very very

1:38:28Really effective for him

1:38:30Great really appreciate that and one more mr. Mayor

1:38:32I'm curious about why the supports in Kitchener Waterloo are are

1:38:39Superior to the ones here in Guelph

1:38:42and through the mayor sorry

1:38:45There is a lot of great people. There's a lot of great people here too and in Kitchener there's been

1:38:51I believe it's wrong and a number of people that

1:38:55Have put a lot of work in the last few years to create shelters and the tiny house the two tiny house

1:39:01And then there's a lot of transit. There's I believe quite a few transitional options and so there has been

1:39:08And again, I'm just giving you his opinion

1:39:10I don't know as much about this somebody else might but uh, you know

1:39:16That's okay. Thank you

1:39:19Great. Thank you chris and of course you can stay up here if you wish with uh with Tamara. So uh

1:39:26Switch spots and the the microphone is yours go right ahead

1:39:29Thank you

1:39:32Uh, hello, my name is uh to mayor Williams. I have lived in Guelph for

1:39:39Over 25 years and I have four children

1:39:44I am a professional and I have taught at the University of Guelph for over 15 years, but I currently

1:39:50Teach English to refugees who arrive in Guelph

1:39:55Um, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak for a moment regarding my son

1:40:03Tim and his experience at a better tent city

1:40:06Um, when my son chris asked me about speaking here

1:40:11I initially hesitated because it is difficult for me

1:40:15But on the other hand the pain I feel sharing this

1:40:18story pales compared to the benefits that my son

1:40:22Has experienced at a better tent city

1:40:27The story is long and I will only share a few things today

1:40:32My son was homeless for many years. He would stay with me occasionally, but our

1:40:37Lifestyles were not compatible

1:40:40During these years there were many times when I spent sleepless nights wondering where he was

1:40:46and about his safety

1:40:48He was

1:40:51My my

1:40:53My missing son

1:40:55He almost died on the streets of Guelph. He has suffered many beatings

1:41:00Has had multiple concussions and broken bones

1:41:03He has been stabbed and robbed and hospitalized with resulting pain damage

1:41:09Uh, yet he is a funny and positive young man in many ways and has found peace

1:41:15And security at a better tent city

1:41:18He has his own small place where he can keep his things

1:41:22It locks so he can sleep safely

1:41:26Safety is something that many of us don't have to worry about every night

1:41:31This place is a community and I have often seen my son helping his neighbors with various projects

1:41:38around

1:41:39this community

1:41:42There's a community garden and other places for people to socialize

1:41:47He has offered food

1:41:50bathroom shower laundry

1:41:52And most importantly shelter for a monthly fee

1:41:56This elevates a lost person

1:41:59On the streets back into a community

1:42:02Where their basic rights are valued and they have a home

1:42:09I believe this that the community model suits

1:42:15That they're unique

1:42:17They're unique needs and it is successful

1:42:21I am grateful for the compassion that my son has been shown

1:42:26Now when I see him he isn't missing

1:42:31I know where he is

1:42:33And I can hang out and connect with him and support him

1:42:38It is a kind of relief that is difficult to express in words

1:42:42But let me say this my son won't freeze in the middle of winter sleeping outside where he is most vulnerable

1:42:50A better tent city has helped my son thrive and be safe

1:42:57Having the homeless problem solved

1:43:03If having the problem by having the homeless problem solved there will be no more

1:43:08Tents downtown or under bridges or in parks

1:43:13A shelter can only do so much to support people

1:43:16A home is a completely different level of respect

1:43:22Thank you for letting me share

1:43:25This personal experience and the positive outcome that my son has experienced

1:43:31At a better tent city it has brought peace of mind to me

1:43:35Our family

1:43:37And a home for my son

1:43:39to live in

1:43:43Let me say this finally I've done a lot of thinking and praying about homelessness

1:43:48addiction abuse

1:43:50And mental health that can lead to a person having no safe place to exist

1:43:56I believe if you want to

1:43:58Start to solve this multi

1:44:00faceted problem

1:44:02Then people need to be provided with

1:44:05food shelter

1:44:07And a safe place once this is solved

1:44:11Then other needs can be resolved also

1:44:14Thank you

1:44:16Well, thank you, ma'am and uh

1:44:19Same sort of thing I said

1:44:21Your son thank you for your courage again to tell your story. It's very impactful. So thank you. Uh, counselor altis has a

1:44:27A quick question. Thank you very much miss. Williams through mayor guthrie to you

1:44:31You made the statement that my son won't freeze

1:44:35And so it's a question about the housing continuum. Some references were made to supportive and transitional housing in shelters

1:44:42Is it your opinion or do you know for a fact that your son would not have entered those?

1:44:48Was this the only option that was suitable for him or perhaps

1:44:53Mr. Williams you could answer I I don't know who's I know for a fact that

1:44:58um, he did stay in the shelter, but as I expressed there was

1:45:02he experienced a lot of uh

1:45:07um

1:45:08Problems stuff stolen beatings

1:45:12Uh being out in the cold

1:45:14Um, it's different having a house where you can lock the door

1:45:19And your stuff is there. You're safe

1:45:22You know, you have

1:45:24Friends over you have your partner there

1:45:27Um, it's just a different thing

1:45:29There's just no way to

1:45:31Express it other than that, you know, you're not leaving at 7 a.m. Out

1:45:36minus 40

1:45:38With nowhere to go

1:45:41Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you

1:45:45Great. Thank you to you both appreciate it. Thanks

1:45:52Uh, more can dandy is next more can is in person

1:45:57Uh on the original list it would have been mic after that but mic's already gone

1:46:01So ingrid, uh, I don't have my glasses on as ingrid here

1:46:05Yes, I see that now. Thank you. You're in the wings. Okay. So thank you

1:46:10And morgan you've been here before so you know the drill you can go right ahead whenever you're ready

1:46:17Is well ready

1:46:19for a structured encampment

1:46:22Is well ready to actively

1:46:25Do what is required to prevent unhoused citizens

1:46:29From dying in the cold this winter

1:46:32Is well ready to have a change similar to peterborough

1:46:36Which is seen a 90 reduction in calls to emergency services since the establishment of a structured encampment

1:46:44mayor

1:46:45council staff and fellow gualphites

1:46:48You may know me

1:46:50My name is morgan dandy

1:46:54You may know i'm an at-older adult

1:46:56at 57

1:46:59What you may not know

1:47:01Is on june 1st 2024

1:47:08I became homeless

1:47:11a couch surfer

1:47:14one of the hidden sheltered homeless

1:47:18And i'm paying 60 percent

1:47:21of my odsp

1:47:24income

1:47:27A shelter

1:47:29Over my head. I believe the housing continuum creates a false conversation

1:47:38In that everything left of socially supported housing is merely shelter

1:47:43Everything to the left of socially subsidized housing is merely shelter and creates no possibility for an individual to become stabilized within themselves

1:47:53Because living in survival mode doesn't allow any thoughts beyond immediate needs

1:48:01If you'd asked me five years ago

1:48:03Where I saw myself in five years. I would not have said

1:48:08Living in a basement

1:48:10As a sheltered homeless person

1:48:14But I didn't anticipate my marriage dissolving

1:48:17covid-19

1:48:19Or multiple disabilities presenting themselves

1:48:25This is my fourth meeting regarding this issue. I was here at city council. I went to joint committee

1:48:31I was at the county council meeting

1:48:33And now this special meeting of county city council

1:48:37I'm also in my fourth address this

1:48:41year

1:48:44I've shared my personal story of falling into homelessness to demonstrate that homelessness is not necessarily

1:48:51Equated with addiction and mental health struggles

1:48:56There are many like me who should be included on the by-name list, but I have no clue if I am or not

1:49:04I access services yet. I don't know what lands one on the by-name list

1:49:09I fully support the work of the gulf tiny homes coalition and I'm grateful for the conversations we've been having

1:49:18I know that the poverty task force says something isn't better than nothing when something better is possible

1:49:24And my question now is an echo of what mayor guthrie asked the county ceo in the joint

1:49:31committee meeting in june

1:49:34If this isn't the correct solution to keep people alive this winter

1:49:39What is?

1:49:42Does it really matter the exact number of encampments and individuals unhoused

1:49:46When people die through the winter

1:49:50Can the city the county and citizens work toward keeping this conversation moving to have something better in place before

1:50:00November

1:50:02Is gulf ready for a structured encampment?

1:50:06I believe this is a true question

1:50:08of political will

1:50:13Great. Thank you morgan and again. Thank you on behalf of council for being pretty vulnerable with your story too

1:50:18So I sincerely mean that thank you

1:50:20Just let me see if there's a follow-up

1:50:23There isn't but again. Thank you very very much for being here

1:50:28Okay, and

1:50:31Yeah in great your next story. You you are already raring to get up there

1:50:36And then is danie here?

1:50:39Okay, you're going to be our next and our last. Okay, so thank you very much to the both of you and uh when the green light goes on there

1:50:46You're ready to go

1:50:49Thank you for taking the time and listening to me speak today. I'm engord ols

1:50:52I've lived experience being unhoused as well as substance use

1:50:55Now I'm a frontline worker and a member of the gulf tiny home coalition

1:50:59I am part of the coalition because someone who has lived through the trauma that comes with being unhoused

1:51:03Someone who lives in the community and sees the suffering

1:51:06And as frontline worker whose heart breaks when I have to let the fifth person in a day

1:51:10Know that we have no tents for them to sleep in that night

1:51:13I realize the issue our city is facing

1:51:15That something more needs to be done

1:51:17The situation is dire and we need more options

1:51:20We are a privileged community and we need to do better a tiny home community model to meet immediate and basic needs

1:51:26Along with advocating for more affordable housing and supportive housing is the answer is part of an answer

1:51:31We have individuals living in encampments all over our city and our community members are suffering

1:51:36Every year our folks have medical issues that would not exist with a place to call their own

1:51:41Folks in the emergency room with burns from trying to do what they can to stay warm

1:51:44Frostbite when no matter what they do to stay warm fails

1:51:48There are wounds that can't heal from not being able to stay dry and or clean or being constantly on the move with all of their

1:51:53Belongings there can also be difficulty getting themselves to meals for proper nutrition

1:51:58In our city we have amazing outreach worker

1:52:01Outreach nurses who work tirelessly and have saved so many limbs and lives

1:52:05But many of these situations could have been avoided by a tiny home

1:52:09Supports are consistently in crisis management with tiny homes coming into our community

1:52:14There would be that many more individuals whose health would improve and injuries that could be avoided

1:52:19Healthcare workers could assist with the other health issues focus on substance use assistance and it helped improve mental health

1:52:25People would have the chance to heal emotionally and physically

1:52:29There are people falling through the cracks in our system and that will continue to happen with traditional models of shelter

1:52:35And housing to a modern-day issue

1:52:38We are so excited for more supportive housing projects coming online and I will always advocate for more

1:52:43But there will still be individuals sleeping rough

1:52:45There will still be people having drug poisonings in a far off the beaten path tent when no where no one has a phone

1:52:51some

1:52:53Some folks who have been outside for many years who have lived alone in the quiet may not do well in an instantly communal setting with other people

1:52:59There is room in the housing continuum for the tiny home model to support individuals stabilize and become part of a community again

1:53:07A tiny home community would be a staff site with caring individuals

1:53:10Folks have their own space that can feel they have a community that cares around them

1:53:15Stabilization and a feeling of safety and security will happen and with that comes hope

1:53:20I can't begin to describe the feeling out of coming out of survival mode and realizing life is worth living and what I am capable of

1:53:27With time folks can finally think of something more than surviving on the edge

1:53:31They can think about employment, treatment for mental health concerns and substance use issues

1:53:35With a trauma-informed reduction lens we can meet people where they are at

1:53:39Lift them up at their own pace to become who they want to become

1:53:42The coalition can work with community resources that already exist who are amazing at what they do

1:53:47And create care and supports in our community that will be a model for other communities to copy

1:53:52We've been meeting with council for many months and we've seen that you many of you care about this issue

1:53:57About our unhoused community members and want to ensure people have housing and options to see this as a possibility

1:54:03There is no one in this room that wants to see people suffer or die alone in the cold

1:54:08How I may think the problem should be solved may differ and if that is the case

1:54:12I ask you to listen to the folks who see the issues firsthand

1:54:15Have lived through this experience experience and the trauma that comes with it and know what they the unhoused community needs

1:54:22Individuals need options. This is not a one size fits all concern and cannot be a one size fits all solution

1:54:28We all need to be compassionate respectful and creative in helping the most vulnerable folks in our community

1:54:34Tiny home communities all over north america are coming online and are changing lives and communities

1:54:39Guelph can be one of them with our own Guelph flair

1:54:42We can lift people up and change people's lives providing housing to those without homes is not just a moral duty

1:54:48It's an investment in our community's well-being

1:54:52Great. Great. Thank you very much for your presentation councillor Allt

1:54:57And just hit replay. I apologize

1:55:02Ms. Oles, thank you very much through mayor guthrie to you

1:55:05Just a couple of clarifications. First of all, you said you're a frontline worker

1:55:09I was wondering if you could because I think that there are a number of different

1:55:13Frontline workers. What is it? What do you do and as a consequence? What is it that you see your experience?

1:55:19Um, so just to reiterate though, I'm here as a community member

1:55:23But I am a support coordinator at the guelph community health center and the consumption and treatment services

1:55:27so I work directly with unhoused folks and people um consuming substances on a daily basis

1:55:34Okay, thank you. I apologize. I

1:55:37I presume that when you said that yeah, we'll just leave it then

1:55:40But the other thing you made a statement that I think is perhaps a little um more appropriate than as a community member

1:55:45You stated that you believe that homelessness stresses the health care system

1:55:49I was wondering if you could please explain what you mean by that and how does it stress the health care system?

1:55:55so

1:55:56that

1:55:57The outreach nurses we have are amazing and they are great

1:56:01But there are so many wounds and abscesses and burns and frostbites that could be avoided in a tiny home community

1:56:08By living in a tiny home and then those nurses can focus on helping with diabetes

1:56:15helping get on the proper mental health meds. Um, they can

1:56:20Fix themselves up and then come in and see me for a methadone or suboxone and start getting their ID and stuff

1:56:26Like services are stretched thin right now because people are constantly in survival mode and constantly

1:56:32In crisis mode and we are doing what we can to stay on top of a problem

1:56:36That is never going to get better until there is stable housing for individuals

1:56:40From what I just heard you say it sounds like you're saying that that we are spiraling into a bigger problem. Correct. Okay. Thank you

1:56:49Thank you and councillor Klassen

1:56:51Yes, thank you through you sir marriage at the delegate. Thanks for being here

1:56:55And sharing your story as well

1:56:57You said something about traditional models not working

1:57:00And so I was hoping that you could talk to me a little bit more about traditional models and why they're not working from your perspective

1:57:06Because we you know, I've heard even this evening. Well, we've got more

1:57:11Supportive housing beds. We've we've got more shelter beds coming online and you know for me. Those are part of the traditional

1:57:18Model so talk to me a little bit about why they're not working

1:57:22And and why this might be a viable option

1:57:25So I think the thing is options, right? Like there's there's two options right now

1:57:32And most of those options are just coming online, right? Like the supportive housing the transitional housing

1:57:37Amazing, but it's just coming online. So the problem has gotten so much greater

1:57:42over the past 20 years

1:57:45COVID really put a damper on everything. So I think

1:57:48Right now we're trying to dig ourselves out of the Grand Canyon, you know, like like it's just so much

1:57:54So to have as many options as possible

1:57:57You have people that have been living in a tent by themselves

1:58:01Off the beaten path for 10 years putting them in

1:58:05A high-rise apartment with a bunch of people around them

1:58:09That that could be more traumatic than

1:58:11Living in encampment, right? So this is an option for people to stabilize and get ready to come back into something a little more

1:58:18traditional as we would say

1:58:21Great. I appreciate that. Thank you

1:58:24Thank you and great. I don't see anything else. So thank you again. Yeah, appreciate it

1:58:30And uh, Danny, come on up

1:58:40Thanks for coming Danny appreciate it and uh, whenever you're ready to go go right ahead

1:58:45This is the first time I ever been

1:58:48this side of the

1:58:50So just just be kind. I might not know all the procedures

1:58:55So I just um before I speak

1:58:59This morning when I'll do my route. It was traditional town poor. I was just soaked completely

1:59:05I thought come to my head about when I was second university

1:59:09I was in a

1:59:11camping trip from hell, you know, gongwin my tent was leaking

1:59:16The sleeping bed is all wet and it was just horrible. Wasn't enough food hungry, but thank god. So three days

1:59:23Finally get home. I regrouped

1:59:26Have a shower

1:59:27rest eat

1:59:29Just kind of when you think about before I speak that

1:59:32When you're in the house on encampment because we talk about encampments, that's not possible

1:59:37That's not there and it's 24 7365 days a year with the elements be it with

1:59:44cold hot winter

1:59:47Raccoons foxes you name it all different can sometimes you don't think about how difficult it is in over a long period of time when you cannot

1:59:55You're always in survival mode. You can't think straight. You can't do anything, right? It's very hard to get really great in society

2:00:02Okay

2:00:04So thank you for letting me get give you my message today

2:00:08So I just want to be here to support the tiny home coalition project

2:00:12I've been residents of gulf since 1990 and community pharmacists of 42 years

2:00:16Practicing the last 35 years in gulf

2:00:19In the last five years I've volunteered my times outreach pharmacists serving the most vulnerable population

2:00:23I go to many different sites daily including chemists

2:00:27The emergency shelters subsidized housing, etc

2:00:30If one talk numbers, there's definitely more than 17 people in house

2:00:34On encampments alone. I can see it daily

2:00:37I'm able not to only provide needed medication

2:00:40But have also built relationship have grown to understand the challenges and barriers they faced

2:00:45My client's substance substance use is often a direct result of early childhood trauma and roughly living on the streets

2:00:52Street drug poisoning including opioid crisis had also taken a serious toll with

2:00:58The mortality rate in gulf skyrocketing the sputting effort although inadequate to support those with substance use disorder

2:01:05I've seen on changes to a great city including incredible growth

2:01:08As our city grows so are our challenges housing and rental prices increasingly affordable

2:01:13People know wages or disability support can't afford a home

2:01:17More and more people are finding themselves in a desperate desperate place unhoused and need a basic support for health and well-being

2:01:23In 2010 I was one of the team along with stonehenge and collaboration with community health as the cmaj

2:01:30The command of health association started the supportive addiction mental health housing program

2:01:35The transition housing is designed to support people addiction so that they can be successful in recovery

2:01:41I have seen that housing is the basic necessity the support transition housing

2:01:45Works without a safe place to live nothing else can be solved

2:01:49I'd like to share with you two cases two very different cases

2:01:52And both got back a permission from the clients that I am going to share the cases we do why tiny homes are important

2:01:59So case one

2:02:00I'll just call him Anthony

2:02:02Anthony is a 57 year old male currently living in encampment in the west end

2:02:06I met him in august 2023 when he's referred to our team by the guave community health center

2:02:12At that time he was discharged from the guave general hospital or was using the stepping stone shelter

2:02:16But for many reasons ended up in encampment. He has been millway working at gm in osher war and moved to guave after he retired

2:02:23He suffers from multiple mental conditions

2:02:26When I visited him last week, he had a black eye from

2:02:28Outlookation a few days back as well there are other minor fires that occurs and random strangers

2:02:33Come in came and looking for shelter. He's in dentally this morning when I saw him. He told me because of fire last week

2:02:40They are being served now to advocate that location within the next two weeks. So again, they had to be on the move again

2:02:48Such things cause anxiety will he be harmed which belongs to be taken

2:02:52You can see why he has not felt safe at any of these temporary places

2:02:56when I saw

2:02:59Anthony last he stumbled

2:03:02He anomalous fainted because I'm eating for a few days

2:03:05I was able to give him some food and secure doctor's appointment for the next day

2:03:08He had no phone to communicate no money. No car. No loved ones to take him

2:03:12Walking is not an option to his medical condition. It's difficult for him to obtain food or make to his appointment

2:03:17Anthony would benefit greatly if he had was in a tiny home community due to safe housing support

2:03:22He had time to stabilize and move to more permanent support housing

2:03:25And I think that's very important that he

2:03:28Have time to heal before

2:03:30Supported house

2:03:31Permanent housing because permanent housing if you get in there you get discharged when you come out

2:03:36There's often not need to help for you. I hope I have time to finish my second case

2:03:40So Alice is a 43 year old female. She has a substance use disorder since she was a teenager

2:03:45In several multiple traumas throughout her life, including severe physical assault by domestic violence

2:03:50In carceral incident 10 months years ago eight years ago

2:03:53Alice come to a place where she realized that she need to change and determine to stop her

2:03:57substance use

2:04:00Just one second any um as our as uh, Danny is our last uh delegate

2:04:05Um, would anyone challenge me if we just let the second story go a little longer just to figure it

2:04:12No, okay, so please, uh, please just wrap up as soon as you can but uh, we're going to give you permission to go a bit further

2:04:18Thank you, mayor and council

2:04:19Eight years ago Alice came to a place where she realized that she needed change and determined to stop her substance use as well as an abusive relationship

2:04:27She was able to secure safe housing and with support from a family doctor addiction specialist peer support

2:04:33in our pharmacy team

2:04:35Alice was able to achieve her goal. She would be six year clean this September

2:04:39Alice curling works full time is no longer in social assistance

2:04:44This will not have happened if she did not have safe housing support from her team having a safe and safe and stable

2:04:49Place lift provided favorable circumstances for her to succeed

2:04:53As you can see housing has made a big difference to help

2:04:57Alice get on her feet a chance that Tony hasn't had

2:05:00The the Guelph tiny home project

2:05:02Would expand the range of options housing again will recognize that multiple options and need to meet people's needs in our community and keep them safe

2:05:09This stability can achieve while they'll be there to foundation future success

2:05:14Going forward. I believe the tiny home project is a viable and necessary option

2:05:18We can house people quickly and provide safe and caring environment which greatly improve the living situation

2:05:23Lovely struggled with personal hygiene, fruits and security or worry about physical safety bed to sleep, theft of belonging

2:05:29They'll be more engaged with the care plan

2:05:32Safe and supportive housing provide hope for the future and chance to succeed

2:05:35I hope make the difference with Alice. I hope could help turn things around

2:05:39For Tony too. I know you care about our unhoused community members

2:05:44And this is your chance mayor and council to do the right thing to support people in the community. Thank you

2:05:49Great Danny. Thank you very much

2:05:51Councillor caiten has a question for you

2:05:55Thanks to you mr. Mayor

2:05:57So

2:05:58Danny you go around and you deliver medicine to encampments

2:06:02Um, can you describe some of the things that you've seen because you you have a lot more in-person contact with folks?

2:06:10Um, what do you think would be alleviated by this model?

2:06:16Just getting people some safe place to start and heal to stabilize them is very important

2:06:22When you're in encampment

2:06:24When you leave when you come back, you don't know you belong to be there anymore or not

2:06:28On a cold night when you really really cold a six blanket is not enough

2:06:32You may want to start a candle fire or if you're lucky you might get propane you bleed along and the chance of

2:06:38burns or

2:06:40which

2:06:41happens in encampments just in the near downtown area

2:06:46Back in the early winter before the person is housed

2:06:50And and and all kind of risk and never mind that's hard to get to places and sometimes you don't think about boredom

2:06:58The definition in camp and it's like one person

2:07:01or

2:07:03Many people in one place. I don't i'm not sure what is the

2:07:06The definition is but many people I visit maybe one or two people in separate tents

2:07:12few places separately

2:07:13and all day

2:07:15There's nothing to do

2:07:17boredom is a killer in a tiny home you can community if you say if you don't have to worry about your stuff

2:07:24You get fed you can sleep you can actually take time to think and regroup no different than my

2:07:29Horbo camping trip when I come home I can regroup

2:07:34Thank you very much

2:07:37Great. Thank you. I looks like I have my first and only question

2:07:41Um, Danny, you mentioned that there are certainly more than 17

2:07:46People that are living in encampments

2:07:49You're on the ground as you said you're going to visit these in your own time and our community. Thanks you for that by the way

2:07:56Um, can you give me a rough estimate as to how many individuals are actually in encampments sleeping rough in our

2:08:04community

2:08:07Estimate conservedly probably two to three times at least that it's hard to get a number because they moved right

2:08:14So for example, I have a couple that was in the hotel in the south end

2:08:19When the when the federal government's funding for the winter when that ends I think end of april

2:08:25they end up in a

2:08:27Kind of forced area near the you know what hotel is way by clearing golden way down there by hand

2:08:33and from there

2:08:35To now they have probably moved like five times they're currently in the south end

2:08:39Right, so they're moving all over the place and certainly there's also a lot of debris that have left behind but that's what happens

2:08:45Right, so sometimes hard to track all them all the time, but they they are like everywhere

2:08:50Like when I used to do my runs

2:08:52Uh, I basically drive around city twice from the like literally two circles around the city to go to different places see people

2:08:58Right, so this is lots of people

2:09:03But I would at least two to three times. I don't know what the exact

2:09:06List is but however, I think you know like

2:09:10Morgan says, you know

2:09:12She's one that documented one because we're talking in chemists, but we're talking to be one housed

2:09:16If you go by your by name list, this is your own list. They tell you at least 200 people

2:09:21So yeah, thank you, Danny. Yeah, and I know about the like the unhoused portion. I did mean uh more about the encampment

2:09:28So you're saying uh 50 to 60 kind of range and I don't know what's gonna hold you to it

2:09:33But I would believe at least 50 to 60 because I don't want you flaying in numbers. Yeah, that's right

2:09:38I think I don't think that'll be wrong 50 60. Probably many more but 50 60 can't go wrong

2:09:43Okay, yeah

2:09:45And my second question was going to be about the geographical area that you travel and you answered that so

2:09:50Thank you. Okay. Well, that's it for you. Thank you very much. By the way again. Thank you for what you do

2:09:56And um, and that's it for our our delegations

2:10:00Um council what we're going to do and to the community as well that's here listening online

2:10:05It is uh 607

2:10:08We are going to take a dinner break and I would encourage you guys to maybe do the same

2:10:13Uh, because we've got some more discussion coming and uh, so I would say that it would be best for us to take a half an hour break

2:10:19Why don't we come back here at 20 to

2:10:22Oh, sorry, I'm just getting

2:10:28Yeah, I'm not forgetting about that. Yep

2:10:31We're gonna come back here at uh, 640

2:10:35However

2:10:36Uh, we do have information in a closed session

2:10:40That council is going to be uh involved in like right away

2:10:44So as much as I'm saying oh come back here at 640

2:10:48To be very honest with you

2:10:50I would can imagine that we'd be at least a half an hour in in closed session

2:10:54So, um, I would say if there's people interested either watching online or here in the room and such

2:11:01I would say it's probably a good hour before we may even be back into open session here to have some more discussion and debate

2:11:08I'm just giving her one the heads up so they they know sort of a time frame

2:11:12Um, so we're going to maybe try to aim ourselves for that just to be respectful of others that want to be involved here and listening in

2:11:19Uh, but at this time I said, uh, I said we will take a break

2:11:23And we will see

2:11:25Everyone back here for a quick motion to move into closed at 640

2:11:29And then probably back out a half an hour later after that. Okay, so, uh, thank you very much

2:42:26This is your one minute warning

2:42:29For those joining us online

2:44:28Okay, I'll call the meeting back to order then. Thank you so much everyone

2:44:32Um, as I described earlier, it's an opportunity for us to consider to move into closed session now

2:44:39And as is disclosed on the open agenda

2:44:44It would be under section 239 to a and k of the municipal act relating to the security of the property of the municipality

2:44:53Or local board in a position plan procedure criteria or instruction to be applied to any negotiations carried on

2:45:00Or to be carried on by or on behalf of the municipality or local board

2:45:05Uh, this is titled potential municipally owned sites for temporary structured encampments

2:45:12And so with that, um, councillor Allt has uh, agreed to move councillor Goller has agreed to second

2:45:21uh that um and

2:45:23Before I move into closed on that in the open session. Is there any disclosure or pecuniary interest?

2:45:29Or any general nature thereof for that item before we move into closed

2:45:33Hearing and seeing none. I'll call the vote then. Uh, is anyone against moving into closed session?

2:45:40Again, I don't hear us anybody so that's unanimous

2:45:42So we will move into closed session under that category and we will be back

2:45:48Shortly. Thank you. Okay. This is your one minute. Uh

3:38:44I don't know what's it called? Warning

3:38:48Before we

3:38:50Before we kick things back off. Okay

3:39:50Okay, I'm going to call the meeting back to order in open session as a summary

3:39:55We received information under the title and the agenda item as disclosed

3:40:01There was no direction at all given

3:40:04And we just as I said, we just received information from uh from staff. So now we're back out here in open session

3:40:13So we've heard from our delegations. We have some opportunities for

3:40:18Discussion now in front of us as a council

3:40:21I'm going to look to counselor

3:40:23all to maybe if the clerks can get ready

3:40:27the

3:40:28motions that

3:40:30were prepared

3:40:32that I sent

3:40:35And counselor all is willing to move them for me. Um, and I believe it's seconded by counselor galler

3:40:41Uh, it is quite a long

3:40:44motion

3:40:46Uh, and I think of the importance of it though. It'd be nice to have it read out loud counselor. Oh, would you mind doing that for us?

3:40:53Or would you like me to

3:40:56Okay, you go ahead. Uh, thank you very much mayor guthrie. Uh moved by all seconded by galler

3:41:03The following five motions is a package that wealth city council endorse in principle the need for a time

3:41:10home shelter model within the city of guelph and respectfully ask the county of wellington as the

3:41:16Consolidated social services manager to consider how this model may fit within the housing continuum moving forward

3:41:24number two that city staff in alignment with the report titled mayoral direction b3

3:41:30Strategic real estate partnership on underutilized city owned assets be directed to continue working to identify the potential

3:41:37for city owned lands to be used for the development of temporary or permanent housing

3:41:42Or to review other non owned city lands that come forward for consideration and report back as required by q1

3:41:512025 as part of the city of the planned citywide land inventory evaluation

3:41:56While taking under consideration the upcoming county of wellington homelessness winter response plan

3:42:02The opening of the delhi street supportive housing units and additional shelter and transitional housing units

3:42:08Contained within the gordon street stepping stone renovations

3:42:13Number three that staff be directed to forward a copy of this report to the joint social services and land ambulance

3:42:19committee for information if this could be brought up the screen please at this point

3:42:23I've got a black line in front of everything

3:42:26Uh, I'm then i'll read from there. This is will be my eye test number four that city council

3:42:31Respectfully requests that the joint social services and land ambulance committee

3:42:35For the estimated costs including any federal and provincial funding that will be required to temporarily house any individuals

3:42:42From the by name list not accommodated through other shelter locations as part of the winter

3:42:4920 24 25 homelessness response to city council for consideration at the september

3:42:5724 2004

3:42:59Guelph city council meeting and number five that

3:43:02Guelph city council respectfully requests immediate funding allocation and criteria for the federal government funds to address

3:43:10encampments and homelessness in our community through the federal government

3:43:16The federal budget thank you. Thank you

3:43:23Thank you very much. Mayor guthrie and I promise i'll stay within my time

3:43:26I'm moving these motions because as many of you will recollect the last meeting

3:43:30I did not support the recommendation that came before us

3:43:34And I think that it's very important for us to appreciate what's on the floor here

3:43:38There are in my opinion three major issues one is the crisis in housing

3:43:43Much of it exacerbated by cost and our potential to actually put housing in the ground two

3:43:47There is a mental health and an addictions issue and three

3:43:51In my opinion, there is a time to reevaluate what the housing continuum should be to alleviate human misery

3:43:57Whether it is for those that are under housed or those who are not housed at all

3:44:02Homelessness as we are all aware is a national health and housing crisis affecting businesses

3:44:08Personal well-being neighborhoods and it's exacerbated by designer drugs. We see that around us in guelph

3:44:14We see that in downtown guelph

3:44:16We have before us good broad enabling resolutions

3:44:20They don't identify parkland, which was a major sticking point for my support in the last recommendations

3:44:26And we've heard that people are alienated and they are fearful to move into shelters or into supportive housing or transitional housing

3:44:33This is an option that allows us to be in the forefront of changing the paradigm on what we consider to be the housing continuum

3:44:41By adding to that which may allow those who have difficulty accessing supportive housing or transition housing

3:44:48Something else on the continuum. I thank all the delegates that came before us. I thank my council colleagues for listening to me so far

3:44:57Great, thank you

3:44:59I think I have an amendment coming from counselor downer

3:45:03So let's get that on the floor so we can discuss and uh and vote on that. I'll turn the floor over to counselor downer

3:45:10Hi, so I would like to

3:45:13Why I said that?

3:45:14Are you all?

3:45:16We've had a break. Hi everybody again. We're back

3:45:21So um, so I have amendment um and if

3:45:25Let's go put it up. So it's a well city council endorse in principle

3:45:29So I would I want to change it to a pilot structured encampment because that's what we're talking about

3:45:35We're talking about a pilot. We're talking about a structured encampment

3:45:38Um, you know, these can be and an encampment shelter as well

3:45:43I want to make sure that that's what it says in there as well

3:45:46So, I mean, I'm envisioning these to be the

3:45:49The tiny homes or container homes or whatever you want to call them but rather than identifying them

3:45:55as tiny homes and I think we're

3:45:58Let's get back to what you know, what our first term was for this was a pilot structured encampment

3:46:04And it's a shelter. I don't think we need to ask the county to try to fit this on the continuum

3:46:10So if we want to do that I then I'd put that as a separate motion, but not for me because

3:46:16um

3:46:18As we heard from the one of the co-founders of the better tent cities is the continuum didn't matter

3:46:25In this they they were able to build it regardless of the continuum is a model that the feds in the province has put together for their

3:46:32service providers, so it's not for

3:46:35um this type of a

3:46:37model however

3:46:40I would see this as a shelter

3:46:42Uh much like the Norfolk Manor is a shelter now. That's 24 hours 20 24 7 care and people there

3:46:50and it's

3:46:51And and they're you know, and and it's they've got there's people can keep their stuff there

3:46:56So it must be fitting in somewhere for the county as it is

3:47:00So I don't think we need to ask them to do that. We can have that maybe that discussion

3:47:05sometime at the

3:47:06Joint social services committee, but I think I think we just need to

3:47:11endorse in principle that we we want to entertain the pilot

3:47:15Structured encampment shelter within our city

3:47:17Just let's just concentrate on that that that wording amendment. I think we can get past that pretty quick. I believe

3:47:24So um if we could just get it up on the

3:47:27On the screen one more time. It's been seconded by councillor Richardson

3:47:32And so we're just kind of taking out the word

3:47:34Tiny homes. I believe it's that's what it said originally

3:47:37Um a tiny homes model. I think it was what was there and now it's piloted to structured encampment

3:47:42So how that looks can be determined later on doesn't have to be so scoped to the wording of tiny homes

3:47:48So that's what the amendment is. Is there any questions on just this amendment of wording change before we call the vote?

3:47:55No, okay. I'll call the vote is anyone against this amendment

3:48:00Nobody says unanimous. Thank you councillor downer

3:48:03So we're back to the main motions now as amended

3:48:06I'd like to ask if there's any questions of staff if not I can move through them

3:48:13Okay, I will move through does anyone require them to be

3:48:18Separated by any means

3:48:22I only asked that because you mentioned it councillor downer

3:48:25I just want to respect respect what you said there. So giving you an opening

3:48:30I

3:48:31You know, I doesn't matter if it stays in we could ask them

3:48:33My guess is they're going to come back and they're going to what they're going to say that

3:48:36Yeah, I think that the continuum is for the feds in the province and you know, it's it's not going to

3:48:43You know make a difference. So I think if you could put the motions back up there clerks

3:48:48If you don't mind as amended the way I worded it. I believe I purposely put in there the word may

3:48:54And I I hope that can kind of give some comfort to you councillor downer

3:48:58Um, especially in the first line how this model may fit within the housing. Okay. Okay. So

3:49:07I did that on purpose so

3:49:10Okay, it looks like uh, I'll call. Oh, sorry councillor billings. You hide your hand up. Go ahead

3:49:19question about clause four

3:49:21Yes, absolutely. Go ahead

3:49:22Okay, so whether it's to to you because you sit on the committee or staff

3:49:28In clause four so the county's coming any ways

3:49:31In in september because in the report it said

3:49:35That there is a significant anticipated increasing costs

3:49:40From from the county for housing and homelessness response. So this

3:49:46anticipated increase

3:49:47I assumed was for the winter 24 25 homelessness response

3:49:53But is it not or can you just give me some clarity, mr. Mayor?

3:49:59I look to my um colleagues that are on the joint social services committee to back me up if I'm saying the wrong thing

3:50:06But I believe there has actually already been incurred extra costs to date

3:50:12Not yet including what may be costs for the winter plan

3:50:20Okay, so these significant costs do not include the winter 24 25

3:50:25In september that you already know

3:50:29Correct that that is my understanding of my recollection from being on that the joint social services committee

3:50:35I believe a couple of meetings ago. I'm trying to remember there was some uh

3:50:42Data and some discussion given that there's already

3:50:47Costs overrun

3:50:49In regards to these issues already keeping in mind as a reminder council

3:50:55We already gave them an extra

3:50:57Over almost three million dollars in the budget already, which is climbing to almost 4.6

3:51:04million dollars, I believe

3:51:07In a go-forward basis. So correct and that's why mr. Mayor. I just assumed and I'm glad I asked

3:51:12I thought this would just be to help for winter 24 25

3:51:16So are you allowed then to tell us?

3:51:19What these extra costs are at this point or do we have to wait until september?

3:51:25And this doesn't include winter 24 25

3:51:29Oh, I if I knew if I knew I would tell everybody right now

3:51:32I just I just don't know what the number is I have I'll call lean is putting up her hand

3:51:37I will go do our deputy ceo

3:51:39Maybe she can help me and I hope she does go ahead

3:51:42So the mayor may not be exactly the help that you're looking for we will get the county's q2 update very shortly

3:51:47which will be included in our

3:51:49September committee of the whole package

3:51:51So you will see the county's q2 variance as part of your september committee the whole package

3:51:56Which will then help to inform that

3:51:59Report that you have requested of the county that will be coming at the end of the month

3:52:03So you will have all of that information wrapped together through both of those meetings in september

3:52:08Which will hopefully then guide your decision that you that uh motion number four

3:52:14Specifies that you would like to be doing at that september 24th city council meeting

3:52:18So you'll have the variance report from the county earlier in the month

3:52:21And then they're going to report on their winter homelessness plan later in the month with these additional costs laid out for you

3:52:28Okay

3:52:35Thanks, councillor billings

3:52:37Okay, I was good to call the vote, but it looks like I have uh another quite is it a question councillor work

3:52:43Okay, go ahead

3:52:45Thank you margoth 33 a staff

3:52:47I don't have anywhere else to ask the question around

3:52:51The validity of the data that we have and how we get our arms around the scope of the problem

3:52:55Right, so I'm I'm wondering

3:52:59um

3:53:00If through you margoth three

3:53:02like

3:53:03How does that work? We can't provide direction to those 15

3:53:08Front door agencies if I'm getting the terminology correctly

3:53:12um

3:53:14And the county has a process for their binameless, but it feels to me like we really need to get our heads around

3:53:20In terms of budgeting and planning and how much land and how much right well, what what are the optimal plans?

3:53:27Uh, so through margoth three can staff just help me understand. How can we get?

3:53:32at better scoping of the size of the problem

3:53:37So through the mayor to councillor work it is it is a challenge

3:53:41And I'm not sure we're ever going to have an exact accurate number because we are talking about a population that is transient

3:53:48And so on any given day we know exactly how many encampment locations we are tracking in the city

3:53:55And we gather that data through a number of different sources

3:53:58Certainly we rely on what individual citizens are reporting into us what our bylaw officers are seeing

3:54:05What gulf police services may be reporting into us? We have a very robust gis tracking system where we internally keep

3:54:13Uh, a map of where all of those locations are so that we make sure we are then connecting in

3:54:20With our social service agencies

3:54:22And we go through the county who then has the stepping stone social service partners go out to make sure they are visiting all of those

3:54:30encampments and trying to make sure that individuals are on the by name list as you heard tonight

3:54:36There are lots of other

3:54:38Harm reduction workers mental health workers various agencies and individuals who are all providing services into individual encampment locations

3:54:48Lots of them we are trying to have a better coordinated approach so that they are reporting that information in

3:54:54Through that one so the door agency model so that it is getting reported into the county's hyphous system

3:55:00So that we are tracking it

3:55:02but it isn't

3:55:04It it's it were were I think as it was dany mentioned some individuals are moving around

3:55:10Um as of this morning, we knew of 24 locations here in the city

3:55:15But those don't always necessarily have people in them when we go and visit

3:55:19Or there might be people in them one day, but not the next day. And so

3:55:24I don't think and I think it was mr. Mark alonga who said it

3:55:28I don't know that actually debating what is the exact number is necessarily helpful because it takes away from

3:55:34We know there's a problem. We know there's a crisis and whether it is

3:55:4062 or 49 or 73 in

3:55:4324 encampments or 18 encampments

3:55:45I don't I'm not trying to be flippant. I'm just simply trying to say we know there's a problem and we know there's a crisis

3:55:51We absolutely need to keep doing a better job making sure that the agencies are as coordinated as possible

3:55:58Partly so our data is accurate and partly because we also want to make sure that

3:56:03Every single person living in an encampment is getting as much support as they can

3:56:07And so we want to make sure that we have that coordinated approach as best we can

3:56:11So that was a long way away a round of saying we are continuing to work

3:56:17Collectively with the city with the county and with all of the various

3:56:22organized social service agencies as well as the more informal

3:56:26Network of people who are going out and providing service into the encampments

3:56:30But the the the the best

3:56:33Thing that I will keep sort of encouraging everyone to do is making sure that we are collecting that data

3:56:39Through that consolidated hypha system that the county has and making sure that people are captured on the by name list

3:56:46So that we do have as good

3:56:49As possible a list of individuals in our community

3:56:52So that we are tracking that data point

3:56:55Even if on a given day the total number of encampments may be variable depending on who's in which location on which day

3:57:04Right. So so through you migratory just to be sure I understand

3:57:08So mr. Louis came and talked about how he goes around all these encampments to help the people which is wonderful

3:57:16Does he have a mechanism?

3:57:18to

3:57:19To encourage those people to be on the by name list

3:57:22Is it through referring from an agency like it feels like a problem we could solve

3:57:28Right like the data the data problem. It feels like we could get closer on data

3:57:34And and obviously we know there's a challenge, but there's also a number of units coming on line this fall

3:57:40So I'd like to know how big that gap is because ultimately it will drive the next decisions on types of housing or solutions. So

3:57:48Um, and we heard a delegate say she didn't know how to get on the by name list

3:57:54So can you I just want to have the conversation in this context?

3:57:58Because it's not going to come up again

3:58:01How do we get a better handle on?

3:58:04The the number of people who need help so that we can help them more effectively

3:58:09So there's there there is also you'll hear here referred to the point in time count

3:58:13Which is mandated by the federal government that only happens every so often the next one is happening this fall

3:58:19And that's a very coordinated effort by a number of different social

3:58:23Service agencies and the county to do a point in time count of individuals

3:58:30living in homelessness in our community

3:58:33But what we need to do in terms of

3:58:36Individuals to get to make sure that individuals are on the by name list

3:58:41The best way for that to happen is to get connected in through what's called a door agency

3:58:47So there are a number of door agencies and we can make sure people are connected in

3:58:51Anyone working in an encampment situation if they contact us through our by-law team

3:58:57We connect in through stepping stone because that is our pathway

3:59:01And then stepping stone makes sure that the individuals get connected through the county's hyphous system

3:59:07Which is their program for accurate data counting? I don't remember what the acronym of hyphous stands for

3:59:14It's hfis

3:59:16But it is their tracking system that they use and that is where they they accurately

3:59:22Track the homelessness stats and that's also how we get people on the by-name list because they do the assessment

3:59:30And so that is the best way

3:59:32And so we're certainly continuing to encourage anybody who's out working or volunteering their time and working with people living in encampments that they are

3:59:43Connecting people through one of those door agencies so that we can make sure that we're capturing that data

3:59:48So that that by-name list is as accurate as possible and that we're tracking that data so that we have the best information

3:59:54But again the information is important

3:59:56But what's really important is make sure nobody's falling through the the proverbial cracks and that we're making sure

4:00:01We're aware of of everyone and making sure that they're getting the supports that are available

4:00:07Thank you. So merga theory to another question. That was a data question the next question is about funding so through you to staff

4:00:15Um, are we aware whether the housing accelerator funding or potentially some of the funding streams announced in the last federal budget?

4:00:22Could be applied to a project like this

4:00:26through the mayor to council or work

4:00:28The housing accelerator fund is more by agreement and the city is working to meet its obligations right now

4:00:34Which are focused for us more around affordable housing and the creation of additional affordable housing units

4:00:40But there was a tremendous amount of money announced in the last federal budget

4:00:44And we expect more details about that over the summer and into the fall

4:00:47And so our hope is to work with the county to determine

4:00:51The eligibility and the appropriate projects to bring back both to city council and the joint social services and land to ambulance

4:00:58committee as appropriate

4:01:03Great. Thank you

4:01:05With that, I'll just wrap up before I call the vote myself if you don't mind

4:01:09I just wanted to say thank you publicly to you know, the tiny home coalition

4:01:14And a bunch of stakeholders that have been coming forward over the last

4:01:18Many months in trying to rally, you know, this this issue. So I just want to fully acknowledge that publicly

4:01:25Um, I also want to in the same breath say that I appreciate an organization

4:01:31That also understands. Hey, maybe we need to

4:01:35You know, maybe we need to pause for a little bit here as we get the right

4:01:38A right site or a right model or a right governance or a right like all those things too

4:01:43So it takes just as much guts to start something as it does to have guts to come like on on the 11th hour almost and say

4:01:50Hey, we know everyone's working hard. We acknowledge all of that

4:01:54But we also want to make sure we do it right

4:01:56So I just appreciate that positioning that that's been brought forward today for us to consider as the decision makers too

4:02:04And then when it comes to sites, I just want to say very publicly

4:02:08Look, I know that our staff we know that our staff have done an excellent job

4:02:13In in this and in working with, you know, the tiny home coalition as an example

4:02:18But I wanted to speak directly through, you know now to those in the private sector

4:02:24You know those that

4:02:26May have an opportunity to come forward with an option of a site as well

4:02:32You know, those types of options. I know are very

4:02:37Those types of options are very welcome to be discussed by our staff

4:02:43And so any type of conversations that you want to bring forward

4:02:47I would just encourage the private sector to consider doing that

4:02:52Through to our professional staff and they can you know, that door will be open to have those discussions

4:02:57To see what what could fit what might not fit where we could go with that

4:03:01And so I just want to make sure that that is really stated out loud as well

4:03:07And as much as uh, you know, I was kind of hoping that we could try to move something forward

4:03:13You know a little bit. I think it is the right way of

4:03:17Making sure that if we do move something forward, it's done in the right way

4:03:20And um, so I also want to put a lot of emphasis on just very publicly on the county

4:03:26I'll just say it out loud for their winter

4:03:29uh, response program

4:03:31I am really waiting. I'm sure my colleagues are

4:03:35To figure out what they have in store for that september meeting at the county

4:03:41Uh, and for that conversation to flow into this chamber as well

4:03:46For how they are going to be looking to address that

4:03:49Um, because

4:03:52That is a highly important issue for all of us

4:03:55And then the final thing I'll just say is is that the ontario big city mayor's caucus just dovetailing on what council

4:04:01Or work just brought up. We did pass a motion

4:04:04In regards to the federal funding which is in I think it's about 150 million dollars if I recall

4:04:11in the budget for specific for encampment and and

4:04:16And uh homelessness urgent issues for this coming winter

4:04:21And so we passed a motion specifically asking the federal government tell us what is going on

4:04:28Tell like how much or how much are municipalities or their social service managers getting

4:04:33Tell us now so we can do the planning now

4:04:37And so the continual kind of waiting although we're very pleased that that was in the budget is not helpful

4:04:43We need to actually plan and so and when I say the word we I mostly mean in collaboration with the county

4:04:50So I I would really hope that there's that that that call from the ontario big city mayor's caucus and us now

4:04:56That's that's our last motion that we had

4:04:59Is is also heard by them because we really need to know how much

4:05:03And and the what around that so that we can plan for that. So I appreciate that as well

4:05:09um with that I'll call uh the vote

4:05:13And is anyone against those motions that were read out earlier as amended

4:05:19That's unanimous. Thank you. I have one extra motion that's going to come forward as an additional from councillor downer. So I will

4:05:27Ask her to table that for us

4:05:30Thank you. So I don't know who's going to second this

4:05:34but um

4:05:35It's that city council request through the county

4:05:39Through wellington county that the housing and health community planning table investigate the prioritization of providing

4:05:45Individuals living in encampments with health and housing supports as part of as part of their work plan

4:05:53We got as part of twice but um

4:05:57In discussions with the county staff and the material they've sent it's it's uh

4:06:03Not clear in their criteria when they're placing people on the by name list

4:06:08um

4:06:09Whether it's not actually it's not there that that that is being prioritized people living in unsheltered encampments

4:06:17um

4:06:18That that they're not being prioritized through that process

4:06:23And so I know that that's something they're looking at discussing at that table

4:06:27But I think this sort of just formalize it. This is something we'd like them to look at

4:06:31So that this group of people on the by name list are actually

4:06:37prioritized

4:06:39Okay, thank you and councillor work had put up her hand just to second

4:06:43Your ward made also kind of jumped out there. So I think there's a few people that would be happy to

4:06:47To do that. Uh, let's have some questions in regards to this specific motion. Councillor Allt

4:06:52Thank you very much. Mayor guthrie through you to the mover

4:06:57There's a couple of issues that i'm struggling with one is if we prioritize somebody who's in an encampment

4:07:03Do we not

4:07:05De-prioritize someone who might equally be needing changes in housing? The other issue is

4:07:11Will the county be requested to consider whether there's any

4:07:15human rights

4:07:16Impacts on this

4:07:17So this is a an investigation that this is an investigation request at this time

4:07:23That's not going to the county. It's going to the housing and health community planning table

4:07:27So we'll have the health partners there and the housing partners there

4:07:31And and it it's about for me. It's about making it as part of the criteria that's already prioritizing people for different

4:07:42Permanent housing or supportive housing

4:07:49Okay

4:07:51Is there anything further on that? Uh, tabled motion

4:07:54Okay, uh, not hearing any i'm going to call the vote on that is anyone against that motion

4:07:59Okay, thank you councillor Downer. That's unanimous

4:08:04Okay, uh, that brings us to the end of that item. Thank you very much everyone. We do have some bylaws

4:08:12They are that bylaw 2024 209 61 be approved

4:08:17Subject to section 284.11 of the municipal act and

4:08:22209 61 a bylaw to confirm the proceedings of a meeting of gulf city council held on july 16th 2024

4:08:32Councillor busettel is willing to move that for me alt is willing to second. Is there any questions on the bylaws?

4:08:40Hearing and seeing none. I'll call the vote. Is anyone against the bylaws?

4:08:45Nobody so that is unanimous

4:08:48And at this time I will be looking for adjournment. Councillor Klassen and councillor richardson is moving for adjournment

4:08:54Is anyone against adjournment?

4:08:57That is also nobody. Thank you very much for the discussion tonight. Have a good night everyone. Thank you. Bye. Bye