Committee of the Whole

0:18Good afternoon. We've reached two o'clock and we're at our committee of the whole meeting of May the 15th

0:252024 we've got a fairly robust agenda this afternoon

0:30Our mayor is in the house, but he's taken his eat and as a committee chair

0:35So I'll get the meeting started and we have no regrets for our meeting today

0:40And we'll start with O Canada. So stand if you're able for the national anthem. Thank you

2:09We'll take a moment for silent reflection

2:24Thank you, and we'll move into our indigenous

2:26territorial acknowledgement as we gather

2:29Let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in Guelph a city built over rich indigenous histories

2:36We are guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for the land the people who live here today and

2:43The generations to come fire actions today can move us towards reconciliation

2:48We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude

2:52This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many people's over time

2:59But more specifically the Atta Wanderang and the Haudenosaunee

3:03This land is held as treaty lands treaty three lands and territory of the Mississauga's of the credit First Nation and

3:10Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track and is part of a long

3:15Established traditional hunting ground for the Six Nations of the Grand River

3:18Many First Nations in UE and Metis people who have come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today

3:26I'll ask for any disclosure of pecuniary interest and

3:32Seeing none here or on screen. We will move right into our corporate services agenda

3:37We have white one item on consent today

3:41Related to the transfer of part three and part nine

3:45Prosecutions under the Provincial Offences Act to the city of Guelph and the implementation of

3:50Administrative penalty system for parking. Does anyone want to extract that item? I

3:56Don't see any so I need a mover and a seconder for consent Councillor Allt and Mayor Guthrie anyone opposed

4:04Seeing none that made motion is carried so we'll move into our discussion items

4:09Then and we have our chief financial officer our city treasurer

4:14Miss Tara Baker for a presentation

4:18And I'll just turn the mic over to you. All right, so thank you and good afternoon everyone

4:54Mr. Mayor members of council, thank you for your time today so that we can walk through and review the 2023 financial results

5:02So before we begin let's familiarize ourselves with the year that we're reviewing which is 2023

5:11The 2023 budget was approved a year and a half ago back in January of 23

5:16And during that time council was newly formed and this budget marked our very first budget confirmation

5:22staff reviewed the 23 budget

5:24Even before that in the latter half of 22 amidst rising investment rates

5:29Significant inflation impacts ongoing recruitment challenges and ongoing recruitment challenges

5:35Understanding this context will help as we delve into some of the variances that occurred

5:40Additionally and much of the information used to develop the 2024 to 27 budget was based on what we'll cover today

5:46With adjustments made to address long-standing systemic differences, which will also be discussed

5:53specifically in the presentation

5:55So starting with the capital budget results

6:01Overall 2023 has been a record year for not only the highest capital spending at 125 point one million

6:08But also with more projects moving through procurement to achieve the highest level of purchase order commitments at

6:15275 million and this that we've ever experienced in recent years

6:19While these commitments include large dollar value items like the South End Community Center and Baker District

6:25We have also seen an increase of 8.5 percent in the number of purchase orders issued

6:31from the graph we can see that the annual spending and

6:34Approved budgets are converging which are the green and blue lines and this tells us that the capital deployment strategies put in place in

6:412021 and 22 are working the increase in the budget carry forward

6:46Which is the red line is slowing and when you take into consideration that PO commitments are growing

6:51We should begin to see this line curve down in the next few years

6:552023's year-end uncommitted approved budget is

6:59198 million which is lowest uncommitted position in recent years and I'll discuss this a little more in the next slide

7:05The principles of the capital plan resourcing strategy are holding true in that it takes people to execute capital work

7:11Well, and if we are not looking at the program holistically with this in mind

7:15We may see this capital spend start to drag and reoccur

7:20We are really in a good place right now and we would like to maintain this progress and keep seeing this trend continue

7:26Highlights of the 23 spending include road reconstruction such as Speedvale Ave Baker Street and York Road

7:33Baker District and the South End Community Center both broke ground in 2023

7:38We had the replacement of end-to-life diesel buses with the city's first four electric zero emission buses being received

7:45Upgrades to processes and facilities like the water resource recovery center to maximize energy efficiency

7:51We had improvements to our water supply infrastructure with upgrades at the paisley pumping station and the renewal of recreation

7:58facilities and park structures including playgrounds and trails

8:02Staff have close 31 projects returning 1.6 million of surplus funding back to the reserves

8:08Which is now available for use in the 2025 budget confirmation

8:12In addition through a robust year-end review of capital projects just this past March and under 99 projects are identified as

8:20substantially complete and in various stages of closure

8:23And it's our goal to have the ones that can be fully closed done before June so that we can also access any

8:30funds for the 25 budget

8:33From a capital budget monitoring perspective in 2024 a significant focus will be placed on reviewing projects with large

8:40Work in progress balances that have not seen progress as planned

8:45This continued focus will help us ensure reserve funds are being allocated to projects that are already

8:51That are ready to be started where projects did not get executed on expected timelines counsel

8:56We'll begin to see those impacts carry into budget confirmation with deferrals of planned 2025 projects due to staff capacity

9:04We are making real effort to have the capital budget reflect only what can be executed in the year

9:11starting with the 20

9:12starting with Q2 24

9:15Budget monitoring reports you'll see them on the committee of the whole agenda rather than information sheets and will really be drawing the

9:21connections between project activity the capacity of what's achievable and then

9:27Moving that into the 25 budget confirmation

9:31process

9:35so

9:36The percent of the budget spent or committed by a purchase order has reached 81 percent at

9:412023 up from 64 and 61 percent over the past two years a big driver of this

9:47Were a couple of the large projects

9:50Including Southend Baker and FM Wood station upgrade

9:54Over the past few years

9:55We've been working to align our capital budget with procurement timing and a key learning takeaway here is that we need some that we

10:02Need some improvements in budget approval process for large significant facilities and complex infrastructure

10:09Having large uncommitted budgets for multiple years indicates a slight inefficiency in resource deployment

10:15And we're looking at changes to ensure we don't see this reoccur. We're in a really good spot right now

10:21As part of the city's inflationary strategy to address the high inflation we saw in 21 through to 2023

10:28We've led a large capital budget review initiative as part of our

10:322024 budget development and then again revisited that in March of this year to close out and reduce project budgets

10:39Through this project late last year. We saw 30.9 million in reductions

10:44I

10:45Primarily in the wastewater projects and then the results in 2024 just in March here

10:50We realized another nineteen point five million in project reductions and that'll be available for you on Friday

10:57The info report that will be released for Q1 2024

11:01This intensive work that is occurring across all of our departments is ensuring that every dollar approved is being utilized till it's fullest

11:08And so we're really proud of these results and we're committed in keeping up this momentum

11:13So our capital budget recommendations and the staff report before you

11:21Are on the screen so we have reallocations between capital projects over five hundred thousand

11:29That were not approved for delegated authority

11:33Prior to the 24 budget approval. We have budget additions that include increasing the budget for the next generation 9-1-1 funding

11:41That so that

11:43Budgets available for the procurement prior to the final phase of the grant and then funding adjustments

11:48Including a change from reserve to debt for water services and minor adjustments to close out paramedic projects

11:54By replacing city funding with grant funding

11:57These adjustments are primarily administrative in nature and are the result of all the review activities that have just described

12:04We are currently looking at a reserve and reserve fund policy and capital processes to consider if there are more

12:09Efficient ways to do these types of adjustments and communicate with you

12:13We also wanted to take this opportunity to highlight one of the recommendations in the report for ambulance pre-ordering

12:19We are experiencing significant long delivery lead time delays for ambulances

12:25We are seeking approval to pre-commit 2025 and 2026 ambulance replacement budgets

12:31So that we can order the vehicles now ensuring delivery in those years when they are needed

12:36So segueing into the next report on your agenda will now review the year-end operating budget monitoring report

12:49The city ended in a corporate surplus position of 1.4 percent variance or

12:547.3 million which is inclusive of both property taxes and rate budgets as

12:59Noted by the trend we have successfully reduced surpluses through targeted adjustments in the budget process and close monitoring of results through the year by

13:07Department leaders we've continued to focus on this in 24 budget making even more adjustments to address these variances and get as closer to break even

13:16With this being said though after three years of variable financial results impacted by the pandemic the city's year-end position

13:23demonstrates really good responsive fiscal management

13:27With an only 1.4 variance on a half a billion dollar operating budget as

13:32Noted in my opening remarks the context of when 23 was approved and the fact that this was a confirmation budget is also important

13:39At that time we were struggling with high vacancies and significant inflation variability

13:44From a budget perspective our strategy was to maintain inflationary impacts through other expected favorable

13:51variances like vacancy gapping investment income and tax assessment write-offs

13:56Since we were seeing a lot of temporary post-covid economic factors

14:00We did not feel it was appropriate to adjust the budget instead manage within the budget envelope for 23

14:06Well things stabilized and we could get a better handle on our new normal

14:11So much of this was described in our 2024 budget presentation and adjustments were made to reflect the experience you're seeing before you today

14:20However due to some of the significance of these adjustments

14:24Notably inflation and phase staff phased in these costs over the full multi-year budget period to help with affordability of the tax and rate impact

14:32We heavily are relied on our contingency reserves to slow down tax increases for fuel insurance medical supplies chemicals and employee benefits and

14:41I do you want to say that because of this there are areas

14:46That you will continue to see in

14:482024 where some of those variances will still continue because we took that long-term phase in approach

14:55So diving a bit deeper while some departments continue to experience high vacancies and industry wide labor market challenges and recruitment

15:10Other departments ran overages due to an increase in contract staff and extending part-time hours

15:16Covering permanent staff that were on short-term leaves

15:19In June 23 the executive team also

15:22Brought forward a strategy to address the city's housing priorities by moving ahead with predictive hires in advance of the 24 budget

15:29This was presented to council through the housing updates in 23 by year and seven positions were hired and contributed

15:36Successfully to offsetting some of the compensated compensation trend experiences in the first half of the year

15:43Inclusive in the year-end position were overtime costs that exceeded budget due to the recruitment challenges and vacancies as described

15:51Considering all these factors

15:53Including the employment market and inflation on benefits

15:57Increasing minimum wage and some of the bargaining settlements that occurred

16:02The compensation came in at just point three percent of compensation overall

16:07This is a released testament to the oversight and responsiveness in managing our people

16:14Purchase goods and services

16:16Inflationary impacts have already been discussed and were adjusted for in the 24 budget as previously described

16:23Building and fleet repair costs resulted in a 2.6 million deficit due to aging city assets

16:30The trend is expected to continue in 24

16:33Due to the inflationary pressures on parts and labor as well as supply chain

16:38supply chain delays for capital replacement and deferral facility renewal projects

16:44Assets are being extended beyond their expect the life longer than than intended

16:50We are assessing these results in connection with the updated asset management plan

16:54That will be before you at the June committee of the whole our aging assets are showing

16:59demonstrated operating budget increases, which is not ideal

17:03Revenue surplus was generated from higher investment returns due to investment market rates increased volumetric revenues for water wastewater

17:12Proceeds from disposal of assets grants and also capital labor labor recoveries

17:18We have reviewed revenue and we increased revenue budgets in 24 in the 24 budget by 15.8 million

17:25So this was a really big focus in our 24 budget. And so I just really want to say that this revenue trend

17:30You will see it will be much different when we get through 24

17:36We will likely never fully eliminate revenue variance because of some of the variability on grants

17:42but but that

17:45Significance of the number will decline in 24

17:49Local boards and shared service deficit is mainly driven by the county of Wellington social services

17:54This is an area where we had in the past deliberately under budgeted

17:59With the support of council due to the recurring surpluses that were returned

18:042023 was the first year in many many years where we'd seen that change in spending and so

18:10We have built into the 24 to 27 budget an adjustment to that to fix it over the four years

18:18But you will see in 23 that return deficit

18:23And so this is actually quite

18:26One of the challenges facing us in 25 as we look to deliver on the target because we are

18:34addressing kind of that housing

18:36Crisis and some of the impact on the housing crisis plus catching up on the past under budget position

18:43It is our job as staff to manage all of these varying impacts of each business

18:47We deliver understanding many factors are out of our control and the budget is really the best point estimate best point in time estimate

18:55your

18:57approval

18:58We have a robust reserve fund strategy that we use to manage financial risk and

19:04To mitigate the years where these varying impacts

19:08Stack up against us without the offsetting savings

19:10In those years we would be in front of council through budget monitoring reports to describe the risk mitigation actions

19:16That we're putting into place in describing the planned use of the reserves

19:20Our business is large diverse and complex and we realized a

19:25year-end position of just of under 1.5 percent and in this economic climate

19:30And so I think that that's really quite good

19:34So

19:36Moving on

19:37To what that means so the slide outlines that the tax support surplus and deficit allocation

19:43Is as on the screen as followed?

19:47We had we have formally received a request from the library board and that's included in your report to transfer

19:53Or to fund their deficit from their operating contingency reserve

19:58And we anticipate the police board sending the same request

20:03Alternatively recommending their surplus goes into the police

20:07Contingency reserve and we endorse both of those requests

20:12Which is why it's included on the screen

20:14The transfer of the 417

20:17thousand

20:18Generated from the sale of recycled goods is recommended to the environment and utility contingency reserve

20:24And this is consistent with our standard practice for those revenues and then finally the remaining

20:30Balance would be directed to the tax rate operating contingency reserve which partially replenishes the mounts budgeted

20:39From reserve from the 23 and 24 budgets in accordance with the recommendation that council approved on November 29th

20:472023 that

20:49Being that this that council acknowledges that our operating contingency reserves are below approved targets

20:55And that we are directed to replenish these reserves as a first priority through the allocation of year-end surplus

21:01Until the point that they reach 75 percent target

21:05and so today these

21:07Transfers will bring us to 62 percent funded target

21:11And so that is why we are recommending that they all be directed to the contingency reserves

21:18on the non-tax side

21:26All of our non-tax supported businesses have financial models and reserve funds that are managed separately

21:32And so the surplus and deficits are segregated accordingly

21:36The transfer of surplus from water wastewater and storm water to the respective capital reserve funds is recommended

21:42To help close the funding gap related to infrastructure renewal and growth pressures the transfer of the surplus from building services to their operating

21:51contingency reserve helps mitigate fluctuations in building permit revenue and for example looking into

21:572024 q1

21:59Building permit revenue is actually lower than it was at this time last year

22:03And so this surplus helps mitigate that over time

22:07Parking services continues to have revenue shortfalls as the demand and

22:12service has changed

22:14And overall this deficit is recommended to be funded from the parking capital reserve fund

22:18And then we did make an adjustment in the 24 budget for this to align to the downtown parking master plan financial model

22:27The transfer of funds from court operating a

22:31Contingency reserve to cover the year-end deficit is there due to lower revenue

22:36from the charge volumes and the volume in the system and so

22:40Accordingly they're operating contingency reserve is being recommended to be used

22:44And so the last report on the agenda today is the year-end reserve and debt report

22:55And so starting with the reserve fund balances overall

23:00while the

23:01position on the surface

23:04looks positive

23:07We have total balances increasing year over year

23:10Our analysis does show some concern with the

23:14Availability of funding notably on the tax supported side of our business and so I'm going to get into that a little bit more

23:20On the screen you can see we group our reserves into different categories and staff the staff report goes

23:25Through in detail each of those groupings and then the presentation will just focus on the key highlights

23:32Much of the reserve activity results and results have a direct relationship with the capital budget results that I just shared

23:38And so as budgets are reduced in right size you see the reserves

23:43starting to bump back up and so it makes good sense that we're seeing that that

23:48Relationship occur we did anticipate these increases through a final model and

23:53The 2024 capital budget development has deployed and fully utilized these funds

24:00The reserve results indicate the funds are being utilized at a rate similar to the contribution rate rather than accumulating into

24:07Large balances and so we're really pleased with this and again

24:12confirms the the work that's been done on the capital side to

24:17Really ensure that the that the funds are being used annually

24:21Of note overall while we do have

24:24519 million in our reserves and reserve funds

24:27At the end of the year which will tie out to our audited statements you see next month

24:31What's important for business decisions is the amount actually available to use

24:37because a lot of that money is actually committed through budget and

24:41so

24:42After the known budget commitments are factored in that 519 million falls to 160 million

24:49So that's what's really available and uncommitted

24:52So we will dive into a little bit of that now

24:56On the next couple slides

24:58So first of their contingency reserves which are used for cash flow mitigating economic conditions and emergency needs

25:07And then we also use these for one-time initiatives at the direction of council

25:12And so again, I just really want to say that this is as at 23

25:18And that we did utilize these reserves quite heavily again to phase in inflation impacts through the 24 to 27 budget

25:26And so this is really a historical look right now

25:29As a group of year-end available balances for the tax supported

25:33Like I had mentioned before we're at 62% after you factor in the the transfers surplus and deficit transfers

25:42Bringing our total to 24.5 million

25:45available

25:46And our target balance is 8% of our total tax-funded operating expenses, which is the standard practice

25:54to have on hand in the event of emergency and

25:56And we are falling below that target for a couple of reasons first

26:01We did use these funds for one-time costs like the city's contribution to the Elliott long-term care bed expansion and to fund

26:08the Guelph General Hospital levy commitment and

26:11Then also we use these funds to phase in major inflationary budget impacts and legislative impacts from bill 23

26:18So those were coming in some of the key uses of the tax contingency reserves in 23

26:24Moving to the non-tax supported all services generally meet or exceed the established reserve target

26:31Except for parking which is still which is at 51% of target and wastewater, which is at 74

26:38There is a recommendation before council to approve the shift of

26:42500,000 from the stormwater contingency reserve to the stormwater capital reserve better utilizing these resources and

26:49Bringing that reserve back in line with target at this point in time

26:53We're not recommending any other adjustments on the other reserves that seem

26:59Slightly out of alignment

27:02And we're continuing to investigate this we are updating our reserve and reserve fund policy in September

27:08It'll be very in October. We'll be back and so we'll likely have

27:12Additional recommends at that time related to those

27:16those findings

27:18So capital reserve funds

27:27These account for the most significant part of our portfolio the tax supported capital reserves are in an overall deficit of

27:354.1 million

27:37With an overall decrease year over year of 14.3 million and

27:42So a couple factors here is higher funding for DC exemptions

27:46And I'll get to that in the next slide and then we've also spent

27:5016.5 million for projects that have been approved for debt financing in previous budgets

27:55But the debt has not been issued due to the high inflationary environment

28:00So we are internal borrowing right now related to

28:05To those projects and so our capital capacity on the tax side is strained and it's becoming strained more strained

28:13because of the economic climate

28:15And in the escalating costs on the lost DCs

28:20So they're moving to our non-tax budgets the available ending balance for non-tax supported is

28:2740.2 million

28:29largely due to a reduction in commitments

28:31Sorry, it increased by 40.2 million due to the reduction in commitments into furls that I talked about through the capital

28:39prioritization work

28:40Reserve fund forecast developed during the 24 to 27 budget

28:45Process show this group of reserves even though you're seeing like that large surplus there that by 2028

28:51They will they will be in a negative position

28:53And so I just wanted to flag how much infrastructure renewal work

28:59That's gonna happen on our rate side of our budget those those water wastewater storm programs

29:05And so we are factoring this in and those are really

29:10significant

29:12asset heavy

29:14Services and so that money will be is planned to be utilized

29:18And we've also planned for debt in some cases because of the significance of of the use

29:26Primarily in water

29:28Okay, so the last set of reserves that we're going to review our development fee sourced funds

29:38Starting with DCs a total of 26.3 million in DCs were collected last year

29:44Which is an increase of five and a half mil over a year over a year

29:49This is approximately 70% of the level anticipated by the DC study

29:54And that growth is slower than anticipated and therefore we continue to monitor our growth projects to

30:01manage that accordingly in

30:032023 we spent 18 and a half million of DCs on growth projects and from an enabling housing

30:10Infrastructure perspective we use DCs for major road reconstruction waters and water supply work

30:16We also used funding for new amenities at Eastview Park a new garbage collection truck

30:22Enhanced intersection and pedestrian improvements in growth areas and then of course for the start of a construction of the South End Community Center

30:30So now moving into the exemptions

30:36This is the first fiscal year with bill 23 enacted in

30:412023 exemptions and discounts have increased

30:4568% year over year coming in at 11.6 million of

30:49This we can directly to tribute

30:513.1 million to bill 23 for rental housing discounts and non-profit housing corporation exemptions in addition to this we saw exemptions for

31:00accessory dwelling units

31:02increasing

31:04marginally to six point two million

31:07ARDU exemptions were expanded through bill 23, but they were already mandatory through our bylaw

31:14And so it's hard to say how much of that six point two is really directly bill 23

31:19But I just really wanted to point out the that the ARDU's are providing a significant

31:26part of that cost and

31:28So while it's really a great thing that we're seeing all these units developed and it's really a contributing factor for us

31:34Being awarded the building faster fund money

31:38It does come with a cost

31:39So the DC exemption and discounts have come in over budget by

31:447.4 million or have

31:46176%

31:48So this budget shortfall is

31:50Legislatively required to be funded from rates and tax sources and it's created additional pressure on our growth reserve for tax

31:58As well as the water wastewater and storm water capital reserve funds

32:02This is money that we will not have available for capital projects until our budget starts to catch up to the to the

32:10actual experience

32:12Effective on March 2nd our new bylaw came into effect

32:15Which we now are paying for 20% discount on all DCs collected for the past two months

32:21The province has indicated through bill 185 that this will be repealed

32:25But it is not yet passed and so we are continuing to see additional costs this year related to bill 23

32:32at this point

32:35Effective on June 1st

32:36We will also have new affordable housing exemption come online

32:40Which was not included in the budget in 24 because at that point in time if you recall

32:45There was a lot of conversation and there was not yet regulations

32:49Announced for that piece so that piece now has been

32:53Announced and that will start on June 1 this year

33:00Affordability pressures have meant that we took a long-term approach to phase in these costs over time

33:06We tried to match these costs with anticipated growth revenues

33:09Which will happen two to three years post building permit issuance for a more fair distribution of the burden

33:16We were also hopeful that the province would reverse some of these impacts which they have and to provide us with grant funding

33:23To make us whole which they also have partially done that so I think our budget approach was the right approach

33:31We were awarded four point seven million

33:34for the Building Faster Fund money and

33:38We have earmarked this towards partially addressing the deficit that we have experienced in 23

33:45We don't have information on that grant at this time

33:48Which is really why you don't have a staff recommendation before you on how to utilize that money

33:53Because we still don't have specific information about the use of the grant and so in the future

33:59You'll see us back before you at some point with a recommendation on the use of that funding, but at this point it's still

34:07Premature in terms of the information that we have available

34:10Our long-term approach for the costs for these costs mean that we are realizing deficits now

34:18And that we are internal borrowing from reserve and reserve funds

34:22With available cash flow and so it's just really not sustainable over the long term

34:28But we have planned for this and so we are looking in the short term to make deferrals and kind of really manage the cash flow

34:36Because of the the experience that we're seeing

34:39So the other development fee reserve funds that we have are parkland dedication as and community benefit charges

34:53And so I won't spend too much time here other than to just say that we are collecting the revenues in accordance with the bylaws and

35:01That well it looks like on the screen here that we have funding at the end of 23

35:06That is available for use

35:09We did use and allocate that money out in accordance with the legislation

35:14We have to have more than 60% allocated and we've basically fully allocated all of this money through the 24 to 27 capital budget

35:22So as of 23

35:25That's how much was how much is available before factoring in the 24 budget

35:31And I will note however that the parkland dedication revenues are lower than in the past

35:37Because again bill 23 the first year bill 23 did impact our parkland revenues as well

35:42so and

35:48The last topic to cover today is debt and so year and debt position outstanding totaled

35:56112 million after principal repayments of 12.1 million

36:01Debt servicing costs were 3.4 percent of our own source revenue and within our legislated 25 percent

36:09threshold

36:10Our outstanding principal was 25.2 percent of operating revenues at the end of 23 also well within our limit

36:17As you can see on the chart on the right

36:19We do anticipate that our total debt will drop again in 24

36:23Before starting to climb to our maximum over the next 10 years given our fiscal situation

36:29Ideally we would have started issuing this debt

36:32Last year or this year especially now that we're in that internal borrowing situation

36:38But the market rates have caused us to delay

36:41Based on our current reserve fund balances and that we are internally borrowing we may consider

36:47other temporary financing

36:50In the short term if necessary

36:52When we look ahead to the future we are maximizing our use of debt in 2024 in the next 10 years and

37:02And so we will that will help us to lower the tax and the rate impacts as much as possible

37:08Over that period of time and so in summary, you know, that was a lot of information

37:16So I just want to say that we're taking a proactive and responsive approach to our fiscal management

37:22And it's had positive results through our capital and operating budget reports

37:27Council trusted us to execute two significant capital strategies and we've done so

37:33Transparently and the results are meeting those expectations. We don't want to lose the momentum on that front

37:38We are seeing some concerning trends on our reserve and reserve funds and

37:43Considering this as we develop the 25 budget update materials and perform a review of our policy

37:50The cost of lost DC revenues and delayed debt issuance is

37:54Contributing to our capital reserve fund balances and finally

37:58We are wherever possible utilizing grants debt and development fees to get infrastructure and amenities

38:04To our community at the lowest tax and rate impact that we can

38:08Overall, we've navigated through our the uncertainty of 2023. Well, and this is reflected in the year and results presented today

38:17so with that, thank you so much for the time and

38:21Staff are here and available for any questions that you have

38:26Whoo, that is a significant

38:29Presentation and the body of work and the report that's attached to these items is significant

38:35We have three different recommendation kind of

38:39files as

38:41Part of this agenda one being the capital budget the other being the operating budget and the other being in the third

38:49Being the reserves and debts so because the presentation was all inclusive

38:52We're going to do questions to staff on all three of these areas, but when it comes to

38:59Motions and voting will do each of the four items

39:04Separately and I'll ask if anyone wants to separate any of the clauses

39:08So right now we'll just open it up entirely to questions. I believe I saw a counselor Gibson

39:13Rourke alt I'll start a list but to counselor Gibson you are the first hand I saw

39:20Thank you chair Caron

39:23Great presentation. Thank you. Miss Baker. That was great. It's wonderful to hear about another year of surplus

39:28I think when I first got elected in 2014 that tax rate contingency

39:33Surplus was around three million dollars and it was in crisis mode. So just seeing it about 24 million is terrific a

39:39Question more not on the operating side, but a question on the the non

39:43Sorry, not on the tax site on the non tax site. So the fees and rates for water wastewater storm water

39:49I'm just wondering

39:52And it's just an open question

39:54At what point especially on the storm water fee

39:57Can we consider a pause in increasing the fee because it seems like we've been in surplus every year?

40:03Considerable surplus every year and it's a small thing, but it's also something that I know that now

40:09We're talking about taking funds out of that reserve and putting it into the capital reserve

40:13It seems to me like that

40:16Fee has served its purpose is serving its purpose. I just wanted to know if staff any consideration for pausing that those fee increases

40:27so all

40:29through through the chair to counselor

40:34We

40:36So through the 2024 budget, I will say that we looked at this

40:40in great detail

40:42the backlog and the capital infrastructure

40:46Renewal work in the storm water management system is significant and so I would suggest that

40:53the 2023 results

40:56Really need to be considered in connection with also what you're seeing in the future

41:01And so at this point in time, it's not

41:05recommended to pause the increase on the storm water fee and

41:09yeah, I understand that I just

41:12considering the

41:15Non-tax fees are the reserves are probably the healthiest in the city. I'm just looking to see how we can

41:22return

41:23Some of this surplus into savings for for residents

41:28I'll move on. That's fine. You did a loot you you alluded a few times to inflation and I do want to talk about inflation

41:36because

41:38The suggestion that it's a phenomenon that occurred between 2021 and 2023 is true. I mean it's reflected in this in this presentation

41:45but

41:47While we seemingly have

41:50capped inflation and it's still high

41:52I think it's consensus

41:55Across the board that the only reason why we're not seeing more massive rates of inflation is because of the interest rates that the Bank of Canada is

42:03Impat sort of putting on people. So I'm just wondering has staff considered what would happen when those rate cuts come

42:09inevitably and inflation starts to take off again because it doesn't seem like the

42:13Doesn't seem like governments are listening to what the Bank of Canada saying about spending

42:22so

42:23through the chair to Councillor Gibson

42:25I

42:26Would say that in in a sense we've looked at that more from our debt and our

42:33investment budgets

42:35But we have not

42:37And while we've thought about it in terms of the capital spending and the capital inflation on our budget

42:43We have not made adjustments for that at this point. We're just more of it's a monitoring of that state

42:50and

42:52and trying to be reasonable in terms of

42:55addressing the past inflation because our capital funding has not addressed all of the high inflation that we saw

43:02at this point and we're just working within

43:07Within the funding that we have available

43:09and trying to

43:11manage our capital projects within that in for with that affordability in mind

43:16Okay, thank you. I'll be very brief. My only comment back to staff would be terrific work. Great job

43:23Just I would be very mindful of

43:27The forecasted rate cuts coming in the summer to the end of the summer and what that's going to mean for inflation

43:33I think we should all be we should all be looking at that with concern although we need we need relief from these high interest rates

43:40Unless there's a counterpoint with the federal government. We're only going to see inflation come back. So thanks very much

43:49Okay, next on the list we have I believe

43:53Councillor O'Rourke and

43:55Then mayor Guthrie. Oh, okay. Thank you chair Caron

44:01Councillor Gibson had my question about the the non-tax

44:07If we if we move this surplus into the reserves especially the capital reserve does that preclude us from trying to bring

44:15down the rates

44:18For water and storm water next year or sorry water and wastewater

44:23So through the chair to council or work

44:26No, none of what's before you would preclude any adjustment when we get into the budget conversation

44:33This just helps us maximize

44:36Where the money is sitting as we look at the budget and where we start and helps us to then when we're doing our capital forecasting

44:44We'll have that funding right into our model

44:47From the start so it does not preclude anything. Okay, great

44:50And then I just a question of clarification. So on your slide 11 the one that lists the contingency reserves

44:56It identifies a social housing reserve

45:00But that county is our

45:03Social housing providers. So I'm just wondering should that be the affordable housing reserve?

45:09So through the chair to

45:12Councillor O'Rourke

45:14No, that is actually a social housing reserve that we use on the city side only

45:20Related to the way in which we manage the capital their

45:25Their capital budget our funding of their capital budget and so while we look at the reserve fund update

45:31We are looking at shifting the the categorization of that reserve more to a program specific category

45:40It's really where we house

45:43Capital the funding that they need for their capital boat budget

45:48But that they don't spend in year

45:50That's just where we house that funding to manage it over over multiple years

45:57So

45:59It's not it's not a contingency reserve in that sense and so we are looking at it

46:03It's there is a separate affordable housing reserve for the city. Okay. Thank you through you chair crown

46:09My next question is about that affordable housing reserve

46:12at the budget we decided not to

46:16Transfer funds into the affordable housing reserve so that the property taxes could be kept a little bit more reasonable

46:23So I'm just wondering

46:26I'm wondering if we should at this point

46:30Shift $500,000 into the affordable housing reserve so that there is something in that account and

46:38If not, why not?

46:45so

46:46through

46:47The chair to counselor Rourke

46:50I'm just waiting to see if I believe that the balance in that reserve is a hundred thousand

46:55That was put in through the 2024 budget

46:59I would say that at this point staff have really prioritized

47:04The surplus based on our contingency needs and so our recommendation is following that council direction

47:12Any other use of those monies I would say is really up to the direction of council

47:18It's my best advice that we first

47:22get our contingency levels to

47:25At least 75% of our targets and so that's really what's before you today. Okay. Thanks

47:31Um, and my last question chair crowns all think about that affordable housing reserve for the end of the month

47:37Through you chair crown just a question to confirm my understanding

47:40So the federal government through the green inclusive community building program

47:45Granted thirteen point five million dollars for the library

47:48Can you just confirm that that totally wipes out the library levy going forward since the difference was about twelve million dollars?

47:58Through the chair to counselor Rourke. I can't speak to that

48:04Fully today. I can get back to you by the end of the month

48:07It will definitely address the majority of it

48:11but

48:12part of

48:14Just we haven't fully done the full review yet on exactly what the impact will be

48:19But we'll look into that so we can respond by month. Okay, so it'll have a significant impact

48:24We'll have an impact on next year's budget

48:28Yes, thanks

48:32Thanks, thank you counselor Rourke over to counselor Gowler

48:38Thank you and through you chair Caron

48:44Several of my questions have been asked so I'll move on to my question about that the

48:50The page that had the timeline that showed

48:53How much we are in debt now versus how much we will by 2033?

48:59What will be our debt servicing cost to own source revenue by 2023 when we reach that 55%

49:07Because right now I believe we're at like 3.7 percent. I just what are we expecting to be paying to service or debt by then?

49:16Through the chair to counselor Gowler, I don't have that specific number with me today

49:21I our limit is 10% it would be under 10% we will never breach that

49:28But but I can get back to you with the specific

49:31Estimate that's helpful when I saw that the max was 25. They just concerned me that we might get to that 25%

49:38Yeah, sorry, there's two there's two

49:41There's there's two limits that we're talking about so one is

49:46The total debt

49:49Balance as a percentage of our own source revenue and then and so that one's 25% or sorry that one's 55%

49:56that's our limit and

49:58Then and that is what the the graph was showing we will get pretty close to that number

50:05but in terms of the

50:07cost of debt

50:09That will never breach 10% of our own source revenue

50:13Okay, thank that that's that's what you're right when I saw that I thought it was 25

50:1810% that that makes more sense. Thank you for that. Could you help me understand?

50:22There's two different reserves for Parkland. There is the Parkland and then there's that downtown

50:28Can you help me understand the difference between those two?

50:32Sure, so through the chair to Councillor Goller when we when you approve the downtown secondary plan there was at that time

50:40a

50:41want to

50:43segregate the

50:44Parkland dedication revenue generated from downtown development and so we

50:50Housed the revenue from that

50:53geographical area in the downtown

50:56Reserve fund and the rest of the citywide

50:59development

51:00Parkland dedication is housed in the citywide

51:04Reserve fund and so

51:06as part of the

51:10Downtown secondary plan there was also and the reason for that was because there were specific

51:15Goals and objectives for the money that was

51:18Generated from the downtown and so that was why it was held in a separate reserve fund

51:23Okay, and are there restrictions for our use of that could we only use?

51:28the 16 million for

51:30Parks that are outside of the downtown and the

51:34300,000 for parks that are inside or is it only for our accounting purposes of where the money is coming from?

51:42through the chair to

51:44Councillor Goller

51:47There is no legislative restriction. It's to the discretion of council

51:53However, we do any time utilize the funding from the downtown that would be a full conversation

52:01Well anytime we use the money for any of those those

52:05Sources that would be a count conversation with council at that time. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much for that

52:12My final question through your chair

52:15With regards to our affordable house and reserve

52:19There we have no targets set for that. We have from time to time council has put in amounts

52:25The last budget we allocated a hundred thousand

52:27But there's no other targets that we have as to how much that should be funded. Is that correct?

52:38Through the chair to Councillor Goller that is correct. That's a discretionary

52:44Program that but that has no particular target. There was a I will say there's a there's a

52:52incentive program

52:54That council had approved a financial incentive program that council approved

52:59And that that would really be I would think like the the policy document that would guide investment

53:06But further to the previous question at this point in time

53:10There's also no projects that we are aware of that that funding would be

53:16Put towards and so again why we've you know staff's recommendation is to keep it in contingency at this point

53:22Okay, and then to that end

53:24Do we have a way for community members to tell us that they have projects that they would like funding?

53:32So through the matter Councillor Goller so as per council direction

53:36When there is money in the fund the process that you had us follow is that we are using the county of Wellington's housing staff to issue the RFP

53:45And so they would issue an RFP and so then we would seek

53:51Responses through that process and the county of Wellington would then evaluate those responses and make a recommendation to you for funding

53:58The last time we had a conversation with the county of Wellington. They were not aware of any sort of

54:04projects in the

54:05proverbial hopper

54:06And so the last time we when you were

54:10Contemplating whether or not to put money in the reserve and I think the last answer that I gave you was we're not aware of any projects pending

54:16And so I think it's okay not to put money in the reserve

54:18I have not had a follow-up conversation with the county and I'm just looking I don't think miss sales or mr.

54:25Ducetti has heard anything otherwise

54:26Nope, so I don't think nothing has come to us

54:29But that process would be through the county of Wellington

54:32So they haven't identified anything to us or said you might want to consider

54:36Asking us to issue another RFP so we have not heard that but the way that that

54:41Community groups would identify would be through an RFP process that the county of Wellington would issue if and when there was money available to do so

54:49Okay, okay, so I think I think what what I'm seeing as the challenge is that

54:54We haven't put money in there because there was no request

54:56But there have been no request because there's been no money and no one has said

55:01We we want to spend the money so but there's no actual process for

55:05Community members to to come and say we need three million dollars because we plan to build something

55:11Through the chair to council goller that is correct

55:13although I would say these are very typically large-scale projects and so I think that they would generally be known either to city staff or to county staff if

55:22There was a project in the works out there

55:24It I would be surprised if there was somebody who?

55:28Because they are such large-scale projects generally

55:31I would think that if there was something out there the county staff would be aware of it and would made us

55:37Would have made us aware of that as well

55:38But absolutely it is a fair point that we have not put an open call out

55:43So there is a potential that there is someone out there that is not aware. Okay. Thank you for that

55:49Thank you Councillor Goller and

55:50Councillor all you had your hand up, but then you waved waved me off. So I wasn't sure okay. Thanks. The floor is yours

55:57Thank you very much

55:58Chair Caron. I have three large questions and then a small one. I think

56:03staff made mention of

56:0675% as the target for our reserves

56:09I was wondering if staff could please identify why 75% and what the reserves should be at ideally

56:17It strikes me if it's 75% that's what the reserves should be at

56:24So through the chair to Councillor Allt

56:28Great question. I

56:31The the target is a hundred percent of the eight percent

56:35So just to be clear

56:38however

56:39Also understanding affordability and just you know accommodating some level of additional risk

56:45as we look at our budget and and what could utilize those monies for in the shorter term I

56:53I don't feel like it's appropriate to get below the 75

56:58But that risk threshold was acceptable as we were looking at other priorities

57:03For that money and so I would just like to see that get back up above the 75% mark as a priority

57:11Before

57:12Utilizing that funding for other for other initiatives and thank you because it really what you're in my opinion

57:18What you're saying is 75% is the bottom line below which we should not go and I respect that it leads to one other question about that

57:27You said quote we are internally borrowing from our capital reserves

57:31I was wondering if you could please impact unpack that on the short both the short and the long term and

57:38identify whether there is any

57:40Effect on that 75% or 100% of our reserves

57:45And so through the chair to counselor alt

57:49So when I say that we're internally borrowing there are a few

57:53reserve funds

57:55particularly the tax

57:57supported capital and the growth

58:01The growth

58:03Reserve fund which is also a tax fund

58:06Those two are currently sitting in a negative balance because of the factors that I said

58:13spending for projects that we intend to issue debt for as well as the DC

58:19exemption costs and so

58:22When I say internal borrow there are other reserve funds that

58:26currently at that same point in time have a

58:30Surplus or excess cash

58:33But over the long term when we you know a point in time is

58:37Really only a point in time when you're thinking about you know our type of capital and like the business that we do and so really

58:43it's more about them looking over the ten years and

58:47managing kind of those ups and downs

58:50Against each other and so at this point in time we're comfortable with the position

58:57However the more that you let those contingency reserves decline

59:02You know that the tighter that that cash flow becomes and so at this point

59:07That's really it's part of the factor of wanting to get that number up to 75% of target

59:13but then also really watching and managing the

59:18The project spending and new projects that we would start

59:22Against me also kind of factoring in the level of DC expenditures that we're seeing

59:28And those DC exemption costs that we're seeing above budgets because all of those things are starting to

59:34Impact our cash flow and so we're fine right now. So I don't this is not in any way trying to say that

59:42We're that there's a current issue, but we need to just monitor that now. We're starting to see

59:49those pressures

59:50And we will be looking to issue debt in 2025 for that purpose then related to that a

59:58Number of times I've heard people say you can just reach into your reserves

1:00:02Really, what's the purpose of reserves?

1:00:05So through the chair to councillor all the purpose of reserves

1:00:12There's a lot of purposes for reserve funds and reserves. So cash flow is a big piece of it

1:00:20Managing cash flow so that

1:00:23We can manage all the different business lines that we're in

1:00:28Over time so that's that's a big piece of the reserves. It's also in terms of when we talk about capital

1:00:34There's two strategies for capital funding you can save

1:00:38over a long period of time and build a reserve up and then do the project or you could use debt and

1:00:45manage

1:00:46kind of from a

1:00:49Prospective purpose and so reserve funds help manage offset kind of both of those strategies over time

1:00:57and then all just in the sense of an emergency or the you know and just really managing

1:01:04Spikes in taxes and rates over time. So there's multiple reasons on why we have reserve funds

1:01:09But it's really important when you look at reserves and reserve funds that you know the particular purpose of every single one that we have

1:01:15And so we have 80 we have 80 different reserve and reserve funds every single one of them has a purpose

1:01:23The majority of them have

1:01:26Individual targets what we report to you is really a rolled up version of that because there's a lot of detail

1:01:32but

1:01:34You know at the end of the day

1:01:36That's that's really what you know

1:01:38Your staff are trying to are doing on your behalf and managing kind of all of those different

1:01:44Pockets of money for their their intended purpose and many of them actually legislative as well. So yeah, hopefully

1:01:52That's great. Thank you. I

1:01:55Know more about the city now than I do about my own bank accounts

1:01:59Appreciate that the the next question relates to something coming in June and that's a new affordable housing exemption

1:02:06What does that look like and the reason I'm asking is I think we tend to get confused about

1:02:12terms like affordability and

1:02:15Supportive housing and so on and I'm not clear what it means

1:02:20Thanks through the chair to councillor alts. We are still working through how we will be administering that but what it really means is

1:02:28The province has published a bulletin and that outlines affordability thresholds for each municipality and

1:02:35Projects below beneath those affordability thresholds will be eligible for an exemption from development charges

1:02:43And so the administration around that and how we will ensure affordability over the long term

1:02:48All of that we are working through those details in the process right now. So potentially it could be both

1:02:56Affordable rental and affordable for purchase housing. Yes through the chair. That is correct. Thank you very much

1:03:02Last question is the simple one. I think ambulance pre-orders

1:03:06I'm presuming that part of that is not just the supply and demand

1:03:10But is also inflationary pressure as I saw that when you're looking at fleet is that something else that we're concerned about?

1:03:19To the chair to councillor Allt

1:03:20I think there's a number of different factors at play

1:03:22I think we're seeing it across a number of different types of vehicles within fleet although ambulances in particular are very specialized

1:03:29I think as it says in the report there are only two manufacturers that the Ministry of Health

1:03:35Approves and so it is particularly challenging for ambulances because of that and so yes

1:03:41It is I think it's a number of factors and we've seen challenges ordering fleet vehicles

1:03:46Coming out of the pandemic and I'm I don't know if mr. Godfrey wants to add anything further

1:03:51He's giving me the thumbs up

1:03:52So I think there's a number of broad challenges, but very specific to ambulances

1:03:56I think it's because of that challenge of there only being two manufacturers and just all of the challenges of sourcing parts and inflation

1:04:02Are all factoring in and so that's why the recommendation is before you

1:04:06Thank you very much

1:04:08Thank you that I don't see any other questions or comments so we'll move to the recommendations

1:04:15We're gonna start with the four point one one, which is the capital budget monitoring report

1:04:20There are two clauses under that I'll need a mover and a seconder for that section

1:04:24Mayor Guthrie and councillor Allt

1:04:28any

1:04:29Opposed to moving that motion forward

1:04:32Seeing none that is carried

1:04:35We have a number of clauses under the operating budget monitoring report

1:04:41We have recommendations one and two with a number of sub clauses anybody need anything

1:04:48Separated nope we'll just look for a mover and a second then

1:04:53councillor Busuttil and

1:04:55Mayor Guthrie moving and seconding

1:04:584.1.2 operating budget monitoring report and surplus allocation and deficit funding

1:05:03Any objections any one opposed to that motion? I see none so that motion is carried

1:05:10Moving on to our long-term financial statement reserves and debts 4.1.3

1:05:15We have a number of recommendations

1:05:17We have four clauses under that recommendation a mover and a seconder councillor Allt councillor classon

1:05:22any separation of the clauses

1:05:26Seeing none call for anyone opposed to that motion

1:05:31Seeing none that motion is carried

1:05:34I will look over to deputy

1:05:37CAO leave for any service area announcements. I'm seeing

1:05:41Nothing coming forward on that

1:05:44Item so that will conclude our corporate services agenda. We'll take a quick

1:05:51Five-minute break

1:05:52And we will move on to our very important governance committee meeting and we'll change chairs. Thanks

1:06:00Just a one-minute warning for everybody and for those online

1:09:19Okay, everyone like to call the meeting back to order. Thank you chair Quran

1:13:35We're moving into the last one of the day here on the agenda, which is governance

1:13:40And this is under the temporary structured encampment

1:13:45We are going to well, you know, I'm gonna just before Scott comes up for

1:13:52kicking us off with the presentation. I think I'll just

1:13:57Give some high high level remarks

1:14:00Thank you for bringing this forward to staff and answering the questions that were put in the mayoral order

1:14:05These questions have been I think floating out there for a very long time

1:14:09Who what when where how much like location could we should we and

1:14:15Actually, I think that the report does actually answer all of that. So I just want to write off the top

1:14:20Thanks staff from answering that

1:14:22And giving now just the opportunity for it to land here in this public session

1:14:28with all my colleagues with

1:14:30with the public debate and and discussion and

1:14:35Partnership that might come from it. So I just wanted to say thank you and how it you know

1:14:40This is now in front of us where we can have a good discussion on it

1:14:44really I

1:14:47Feel like there is a need for this discussion to be happening and I feel like that need should be happening right now

1:14:55because of

1:14:57What is you know, my concern is is always worse or weather and things that come down in the months ahead

1:15:04especially for people that are struggling and

1:15:07I'm oh, thank you

1:15:12And

1:15:15I also want to fully acknowledge that there is you know

1:15:18I we've often said in this room a lane to be in

1:15:22From our perspective as a city versus a lane of of what the social services manager being the county of Wellington should be in

1:15:30So I recognize that but but those things I just don't think should fog up the room or fog up the conversation

1:15:38And make it difficult to understand that we're trying to help people and that should

1:15:43it should be a collective in my opinion and

1:15:47And so I'm hoping that we can just have a really good conversation about where do we go from here?

1:15:54And

1:15:55Yeah, so I'm just looking I'm just looking forward to it. Maybe I'll have more to say later

1:15:58Right, so I thought I would just kick it off with just a few a few open conversation open remarks there. Sorry

1:16:04Okay, so Scott Stewart our CAO is going to do a presentation. I think Jodi sales is here

1:16:11Answer any questions later. So thank you to Jodi

1:16:14Colleen other staff as well that's been involved

1:16:16But I'll turn it over to Scott and then after that a presentation will listen to our delegations

1:16:22And then we will we'll we'll move forward from there. Okay, so Scott over to you. Thank you

1:16:29Thanks very much and good afternoon. Mr. Mayor and members of council

1:16:33And and mr. Mayor, I'm glad you introduced the report the way you did but I'll add a little further to it

1:16:39This report was developed in a response to the mayoral direction before

1:16:44Calling for staff to undertake research related to the development of a temporary structure encampment and report back to city council a

1:16:52Multi-departmental team including strategic initiatives and intergovernmental services parks

1:16:57Economic development and tourism and finance came together to provide the information found in this report as you see in the report

1:17:06Staff recommend this report be received and not no further action be taken

1:17:11Outside of forward in this report over to the newly formed joint social services and land ambulance committee

1:17:17At the county of Wellington for their information and of course consideration

1:17:23Homelessness is a systemic crisis that calls for economic social and health policy response

1:17:29The city of Guelph and the county of Wellington are working collaboratively

1:17:34With community health and social services providers on interventions and longer-term strategies to support and in homelessness

1:17:42Work also continues with the provincial with our provincial partners and local groups to examine system level

1:17:48interventions that adapt and respond to social and health equity issues and

1:17:54Permanent supportive housing is an evidence-based and cost-effective solution for for people who are chronically homeless and or

1:18:02highly vulnerable because of long-term concerns such as mental illness

1:18:07development disabilities physical disability substance use disorders and

1:18:12chronic health conditions

1:18:14Our consolidated municipal service manager the county of Wellington who has expertise in this space

1:18:20Agrees that resources are better spent invested in permanent supportive housing solutions as opposed to temporary structure encampments

1:18:30I think this is an important place to perhaps pause a little bit just for a moment

1:18:34Because I've read some of the correspondence and you've heard the mayor just as we've introduced it here

1:18:39We'll hear from delegates today. We're going to call on the city to co-lead some two solutions

1:18:44I would say we are at the table

1:18:47But we don't have that social services department and that has always been the anchor that we've had

1:18:54And as much as you've got some very capable staff both to my right and behind me that have worked on this report

1:19:00We are coming at it from a view of is there a place for a temporary?

1:19:04shelter and

1:19:06And that's not how you get to the chronic issue in this sustainability of this issue is how you fix homelessness forever

1:19:14Versus these temporary reactive modes. So we're struggling with that

1:19:18And not expertise at the county of Wellington and who worked collaboratively with nonprofit agencies and health service providers as well

1:19:26To address this homelessness issue in Guelph as well as the entire county

1:19:31So I would encourage delegates to note that the next joint social services and land ambulance committee meeting

1:19:37It's on June 12th and staff will be forwarded in on your direction today this report to that table

1:19:45And I would say it was less than a year that we engaged collective results to better understand these issues

1:19:51And that was from a governance and systems perspective

1:19:57collective results undertook

1:19:59Significant stakeholder engagement and their work confirmed that the county has the authority from the province and the expertise in house to manage

1:20:08Emergency and in support of housing in Guelph

1:20:11The creation of the joint social services land ambulance committee also comes from that from the collective results work

1:20:17And that's why you see members of this city council

1:20:22now fully fully engaged at that joint committee to bring the influence from the Guelph table there or I think it truly belongs as

1:20:30much as we all play a role and

1:20:33There's certainly lots of work lots of good work happening in Guelph

1:20:37So before I turn it back to you council, I just like to highlight a couple of things along the way because sometimes in the emotional moments

1:20:44We forget those things over a long haul

1:20:47We continue to make

1:20:50Significant strides in comparisons to other mid-sized municipalities when it comes to the development of permanent supportive housing solutions

1:20:57Over the course of this year additional 60 permanent supportive housing units 12 transitional housing units are expected to open

1:21:05These developments continue to build on the success of 2023 were 48 permanent supportive housing options were opened

1:21:12And these units will be an option for individuals who may have been living on sheltered or individuals who cannot or will not immediately stay in a shelter

1:21:21So that's not to be forgotten. There's a lot of work that you do and sometimes that money that is just funding

1:21:27Things and you participated in that there is a lot of good people at the various

1:21:32I don't want to start name one because you got to name them all

1:21:35That are doing this work. They work on when the rubber hits the road

1:21:40So, you know, that's our that's the role that we've that we spoke to a little bit on this and certainly staff are available to answer any questions

1:21:48However, as the mayor articulated and I believe the report is quite comprehensive and responding to the mayoral direction

1:21:55and I've mentioned

1:21:57You know our view on this I've spoken this week to CEO Wilson about this

1:22:01If there's an interest in pursuing more of a discussion about this type of solution

1:22:05Our new joint social services and land ambulance committee would be a more appropriate table for you to hear from our service manager

1:22:12And social services staff

1:22:14They've got to be part of this discussion

1:22:16If this is where you want to go if the answers know we don't want to go down this path of temporary

1:22:21Encampments then that's different. But if we want to have that I think you've got to have the county of wellington at the table

1:22:28And we just created I think we're into meeting number two. We have just created that joint committee with members of council

1:22:34If we're not going to do it there, why do we have that committee to do this work?

1:22:38You know again, it's just how do we start to align these things so that we can tackle them

1:22:43So it doesn't feel like we're just passing the paper back and forth between one order of government and the other

1:22:49Because one has been established is the given the authority to do the work

1:22:53So with that said mr. Mayor, we're certainly

1:22:55Uh

1:22:57Putting your hands in terms of questions. I've mentioned that Colleen and Jody and Anthony are here up front

1:23:01But there's also others in the gallery if we have

1:23:04Some deeper or different types of questions

1:23:06And we're here responds to you and to council

1:23:10Thanks, mr. Mayor. Yep, great. Thank you so much. God. Appreciate that

1:23:14So while we head into our delegations and the first is k miller

1:23:19Who is apparently going to join us by video?

1:23:25Okay, and I've just been told k if you can hear me. It's uh, mayor guthrie that you can just turn your video on

1:23:33Are you seeing it? Oh

1:23:36We can hear you

1:23:38There you go

1:23:39And yeah, we can hear and see you now. Uh, oh, uh, perfect. Thank you for joining us

1:23:45And you have no more than five minutes

1:23:48You'll hear a chime or i'll give you a warning if i need to if you don't hear it

1:23:52But you'll hear a chime with 30 seconds left and then you just got to make sure you don't go over the five minute mark

1:23:57But uh, please go right ahead

1:24:00Understood. Thank you. Thank you for having me as well. Um, I really appreciate this opportunity

1:24:05um, I wanted to take a minute initially, um

1:24:09There's been a lot of back and forth

1:24:11at this discussion and um

1:24:13Previous about the homeless situation

1:24:16About exactly whose responsibility it is. I understand things are separated within the government

1:24:22Um, certain levels of government have to restriction in certain

1:24:26areas, um

1:24:28but

1:24:30Mass evictions have been taking place and are still currently taking place for more profitable housing

1:24:36Um, and social supports have been cut to counter costs

1:24:39It seems the worst the situation becomes the more that is taken away from the systems

1:24:45um, and what seemed today is the result of years of the sub fleet of action on the community

1:24:52Uh, who lacked the resources to shield themselves

1:24:54again, whose responsibility is it? Um, I think it lies on all levels of government

1:25:02uh, policymakers

1:25:04unbounded corporate gain

1:25:06Uh, down to the citizens who've benefited from land ownership and unparalleled land value increases

1:25:13No one person is at fault for this crisis

1:25:17But we're all collectively responsible for it. Um

1:25:22From a perspective of someone who works within this world, I don't believe any initiative or any plan that's presented

1:25:30Um, is going to be ideal

1:25:33Um, given the concerns outlined by the business community the house residents as well as the demographic at risk

1:25:41There are going to be limited ideal locations for this site

1:25:46In fact, all the sites listed in the mayoral directive

1:25:49Are flawed to a certain extent

1:25:52But we as a community and you as a governing body can make a plan

1:25:57That would make a space sufficient

1:26:01Um, nothing about surviving on the street is ideal

1:26:05This is a very unideal situation

1:26:09That not only we are facing in wealth, but it's seeing the greater part of the world right now

1:26:15Um, all solutions are going to be flawed

1:26:18but our action

1:26:20Cannot continue to be the only wrong answer I see is to do nothing

1:26:26Uh, we've got in this room highly engaged and capable people from all stretches of society

1:26:32Um, that collectively not individually can manage solutions. That will be enough to limit the suffering of this crisis

1:26:41We look to the city to part the seas of bureaucracy

1:26:45And spotlight policies that make usable sites unusable and limit the restrictions to sustainable solutions

1:26:52Um, I do agree very much with the city's findings that the current service providers are under significant pressure

1:26:59And some do not have the capabilities to handle the level of needs that they're currently currently experiencing

1:27:05Without added, um, temporary structures

1:27:09So funding and staffing are clearly presented as significant issues

1:27:14Which is why I'm advocating for a collective response

1:27:17Where this effort can be combined with efforts such as the tiny home coalition

1:27:22Headed by invaluable community leaders

1:27:25Adept in managing how this crisis manifests as well as the effort

1:27:29I'm personally invested in, uh, uni hall of which is a multifaceted community centered approach to housing

1:27:36Uh, and is aimed towards more of a preventative response to poverty and housing insecurity

1:27:43um, so

1:27:45I'd like to thank you for the time. I'm not going to take too much time

1:27:48A lot of my concerns have been presented already and everyone's done a great job

1:27:53I would like to ask, um

1:27:55Or a couple points of clarification and this can just be addressed whenever

1:28:00Um, but the the surplus funds I do understand the importance of reserves

1:28:07But I also in my understanding reserves are there for kind of an emergency purpose

1:28:13Um, and I see this as an emergency. I see

1:28:18People are dying people are dying daily

1:28:20There's a lot of suffering and a lot of pain out there and and this is in my

1:28:26understanding to be an emergency and I would really implore that

1:28:30um, the city considers it

1:28:33the the degree

1:28:36Of of what problems we're seeing here

1:28:39And that perhaps instead of placing more into reserves we can put a bit more money into finding some solutions

1:28:46um

1:28:47That are out there and that I do have a lot of faith in

1:28:51Because again, they're being headed by the people who are dealing with this every day

1:28:55um

1:28:56But those are just my opinions. I'd like to thank you for the

1:29:00time that you've given me to present and uh, thank you for bringing this, um

1:29:06Uh, directive to light and giving us the opportunity to discuss about it

1:29:11Well, thank thank you very much k for your presentation right on the mark there

1:29:15Let me see if there's a follow-up question at all to you

1:29:18And oh, yes, there is a one from councillor Busuttil

1:29:23Thank you very much for the presentation k and I I agree with you about the collective responsibility for each other in our communities

1:29:31I'm I'm really grappling with trying to understand you talk about in your presentation about usable sites

1:29:37Which you know could be in our basket, but then you also talk about in the report

1:29:41I think it's uh page four and page six that talk about the capacity of our existing service

1:29:48You know landscape service delivery agencies

1:29:51And I I kind of lost it a bit because for me it's it's not only the capital side. There's also the operational side

1:29:57That's the two halves of the walnut that make things happen

1:30:01And you made reference to something I'm I'm kind of missing out

1:30:05What you're talking about when you talk about service delivery because we heard quite clearly from our ceo that that's not our in our lane

1:30:12Service and funding service delivery. So I kind of miss what your your ask is there if you can just expand briefly on that

1:30:20Definitely um a lot of the from what my understanding is a lot of the limitations on finding ideal

1:30:27properties and sites for this encampment is certain things like proximity to downtown

1:30:33services

1:30:34As well as how close they are to schools or neighborhoods and so forth and while a lot of these concerns are very um

1:30:43Are are very real concerns and should be concerned as such

1:30:50There it is somewhat limiting

1:30:53um and what I mean about services is that

1:30:58To hold a to manage a a site like this that's being proposed

1:31:03For severely homeless individuals

1:31:06There is no way to look at doing this without wraparound services

1:31:12That's addressing mental health. It's addressing um security all of the concerns around that which do take significant

1:31:23Task force staffing to be able to maintain that in the level that is required

1:31:29Um, so that's that's what I meant by my statement there

1:31:34Thank you and through the mayor. Thank you

1:31:36Great. Thank you k

1:31:38And and you have a great day and thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. Thank you

1:31:44Next is susan watson who is already at the mic welcome and uh, you know the drill yourself

1:31:49So whenever you're ready, you can you you can go ahead

1:31:53Is it on okay, here we go

1:31:55Merigoth three and members of council council

1:31:59My overarching request is that you find a way to support a temporary structured encampment for gulf

1:32:05Even if it doesn't end up being a city run initiative, how can you contribute to making it happen?

1:32:12Where can the water find the flow around?

1:32:15Whatever big rocks are in the river

1:32:17I'm under no illusion that a structured encampment is in any way a permanent solution to the the current housing crisis

1:32:25However, I do think that it has a place on what local providers call the housing continuum

1:32:3130 years of magical thinking that the private sector was the genie that would provide for all our housing needs has been an

1:32:38unmitigated disaster

1:32:40This is not a problem that can be corrected overnight and some stopgap measures are a necessity

1:32:47Here in gulf the eviction of marginalized people from 90 cardin has placed extreme stress on our resources

1:32:55The shelter system is not able to meet some fundamental needs and wants that the rest of us take for granted

1:33:01The desire to share a bed with our chosen partner to have our pets with us to have a place to keep our personal belonging safely

1:33:09This is why people without stable housing are choosing to live in encampments

1:33:13The material in the agenda from the tiny homes coalition is incredibly impressive

1:33:19If if a temporary structured encampment is a dead end from the city's point of view, how could you support the work of the tiny homes coalition?

1:33:27I understand that the work of this group was already underway before the mayor gave direction to staff to come up with a parallel plan from the city

1:33:34And in fact, I believe that this coalition had met with the mayor just a few weeks prior to his announcement

1:33:40I know that Kitchener and Hamilton have moved forward with temporary structured encampments

1:33:45In London that city has provided service depots at encampments, which deliver safe and clean drinking water

1:33:52hygiene and sanitation facilities

1:33:55resources and support to ensure fire safety

1:33:58waste management and garbage collection systems and resources to support the personal safety of residents

1:34:05These things are all part of your job as a municipal government and all citizens should have access to these services

1:34:12regardless of their housing situations

1:34:15I guess my biggest question is as the social services provider for the region, where is the county in all of this?

1:34:22I personally have a proposal for how they can make a concrete contribution to this initiative to help solve the challenge

1:34:29The parking lot behind the former post office now the county building on Wyndham street is the perfect location for a temporary structured encampment

1:34:39This site has significant table land that is well drained

1:34:43serviced with water and sewer facilities

1:34:45sufficient electricity and is within walking distance to transit social services and other urban amenities

1:34:52I've actually been outraged for years that the county apparently has a lot of public services

1:34:59Apparently refused to have this parking lot be integrated into the Baker district development

1:35:05Even though apparently they were offered underground parking spots in the proposed parkade

1:35:11That land could have been used to leverage matching funds from the federal government for social housing within the Baker district development

1:35:21The failure of the city and the county to collaborate in this regard

1:35:26Tells me that the relationship is not as rosy as the picture that the mayor frequently likes to paint

1:35:32instead that

1:35:34publicly piece of publicly owned piece of land is being used to deliver a private perk

1:35:40To county employees as free parking and that perk has financial value

1:35:45Because as I understand from a comment on wealth today

1:35:48It is in fact required to be declared on county employee cra returns as a taxable benefit

1:35:54This is a gross

1:35:57misallocation of public resources

1:36:00Which should be used to serve the most vulnerable members of the public

1:36:04The county needs to put this land at the service of delivering housing

1:36:09If they won't play ball, I think the city should consider expropriation or legal action

1:36:15People who are living rough need to have their needs met

1:36:19If you don't take decisive action now

1:36:21Chances are an encampment will spring up again in st. George's square and the problems that government have been unwilling to tackle

1:36:29Will again be downloaded onto downtown merchants

1:36:32Please find a way to do the right thing. Thank you

1:36:37Okay, and is there a thank you is there any questions as a follow-up?

1:36:42There aren't any thank you so much

1:36:44And mike marco longo is next

1:36:47in person

1:36:49and michael keegan

1:36:51Is here

1:36:53You're in the wings

1:37:07Thank you

1:37:09Just give me a second here to get organized. Um

1:37:16Good afternoon mayor and council

1:37:18My name is mike marco longo and i'm a member of the recently incorporated

1:37:22wealth tiny homes coalition

1:37:25The tiny homes coalitions is working to implement a high speed housing option for those experiencing homelessness in wealth

1:37:31The core team is led by members of the faith communities

1:37:34Healthcare professionals service club members business owners trades people and people would live the experience

1:37:40We're in a collective group of people with a lot of skills and experiences

1:37:43But the one common thread or denominator that we share and I think there's a thread that many of you share as well

1:37:49Is that when it comes to homelessness?

1:37:51Um, we're convinced that we can do better as a community

1:37:55The current housing and shelter system is struggling to meet the growing needs and address the complexities of the unhoused and wealth

1:38:02Rising housing prices and low vacancies have contributed to a situation that fails the most vulnerable

1:38:08This pressure has overwhelmed the shelter system and left many community members living in tents across the city

1:38:13Unhoused residents are vulnerable to the elements may not have adequate supports and pushed the problems that accompany

1:38:20unsupported homelessness into surrounding businesses and neighborhoods

1:38:25The tiny homes community model is part of the solution, but it's not a panacea to homelessness

1:38:30The gulf tiny homes coalition is proposing a tiny homes pilot community of 25 to 50 tiny homes

1:38:36With a shared kitchen washroom laundry area to help people currently living in encampments stay safe and support stabilization

1:38:43While longer term housing options are being developed

1:38:46The pilot community will be supported 24 7 by a team of volunteers and staff

1:38:51And will include full wraparound supports including healthcare

1:38:54substance use and harm reduction supports employment training and additional supports is needed

1:39:00The goal of this pilot will be to help people who have fallen through the gaps in our system to have a safer option

1:39:05And then support them through the next step of their housing journey, whatever that may be

1:39:10This model has been successfully deployed in other communities across canada kitchener peterborough freddictor negrar examples

1:39:16And is proven to be an effective high speed low cost solution to the problem

1:39:22We're working to deliver this pilot engulfed by this winter

1:39:25Whatever you achieve so far as the gulf tiny homes coalition

1:39:30We've developed a project charter to build credibility and goodwill with potential partners

1:39:34The project charter which was included in the council package

1:39:37Speaks to what the tiny homes project can and cannot achieve

1:39:40The project charter has also been used to bring on board and receive endorsements for a tiny homes project by service providers such as kindle

1:39:47The gulf community health center the canada mental health association habitat for humanity and stonehenge

1:39:52Furthermore ahead of the project chartering corporation of the of the organization

1:39:57Coalition's came together coalition members came together in two separate strategic planning sessions led by marvin wisdom

1:40:03And 20 stores develop a strategic plan for guiding our mission vision objectives and strategy

1:40:10We also established an agreement in principle with rural city mission for servicing provision for this project

1:40:16Royal city mission will not only service the site but also coordinate an extended partnership with gulf based health and service social service providers

1:40:23To assist residents in the community

1:40:27As part of the partnership with the royal city mission, we have worked on a service provision plan as well as an operating budget

1:40:33We've also developed a website

1:40:35Partnered with a reputable home billage to develop an infrastructure budget and develop the fundraising plan

1:40:41We've also recruited almost 65 volunteers and are keeping them engaged as we move forward

1:40:46We have met and continue to meet with city of wealth staff weekly with county staff as well and continue to build momentum with different allies including the gulf chamber of commerce

1:40:55So what is wealth's tiny homes coalitions as today?

1:40:59We've established as much as

1:41:01Possible in terms of the groundwork, but we need city councils endorsement to move forward

1:41:05We've made it known to potential funders including the gulf community foundation that we're not willing to pull the fundraising trigger

1:41:10Unless we know that the gulf city council is that a minimum able to endorse our project in principle

1:41:16What could this endorsement look like?

1:41:20We'd like to suggest that directing city staff to assess the viability and suitability of our coalition while working to identify a suburb location for a tiny home project

1:41:27Is what we're looking for at this time

1:41:29Now I want to apologize for the directness of the project

1:41:33Now I want to apologize for the directness of our request

1:41:35It is now mid-may and november 1st is less than six months away. We're feeling a very strong sense of urgency

1:41:43We'd really really really like more to move forward with spearheading on fundraising and to move forward with our location

1:41:50Um in the meantime, we will also attend the upcoming social services committee and continue to engage the county wellington

1:41:57Thank you for considering our request

1:41:59Thank you a couple of hands have gone up here. I'll just start with count sort of quasen and then alt

1:42:05And then over after that. I'll go down or embusadil

1:42:11Yes, thank you through you margarita the delegate. Um, thanks for the presentation and the charter was really robust and appreciate your work on it

1:42:20Um, I had a question with regard to uh, the discussions that you've been having with the county

1:42:24Um, can you tell us a little bit more about them and how they've been going? Sure

1:42:30So we were meeting on a more regulated basis initially with the county

1:42:35And we did participate in the county's symposium since that time

1:42:39There there haven't been discussions with the county

1:42:43Okay, um, thank you

1:42:45minimal

1:42:46minimal conversations, okay

1:42:50That makes sense

1:42:53Yeah, I'll pass it on to my my colleagues

1:42:57And alt please

1:42:59Thank you very much. Mr. Mayor, uh through you to the delegate

1:43:03Mr. Marco Longo the first thing that I want to ask you about is something that you just stated in your presentation

1:43:09Uh, you made reference to needing an endorsement or wishing for an endorsement and identifying a location

1:43:17Um, we have before us a report right now

1:43:21First question is do you consider the the receiving of that report to be an endorsement and in terms of identifying locations?

1:43:29I was wondering if you could go a little bit further and tell me

1:43:33What you mean by a location. Sure through you

1:43:38Chair mr. Mayor to council alt

1:43:43That's a difficult question to ask in terms of if council then, um, and and you know

1:43:49It puts forward a motion to um to send the the report to

1:43:56To the social service committee

1:43:58I'm not I'm not clear on on the impact of doing that. I think

1:44:03Um, the the report encourages the city not to be involved in a tiny homes project

1:44:08But it doesn't speak to our project our model a commute-led approach

1:44:13um, so i'm not sure what

1:44:15and council will have to to

1:44:17Debate that what what kind of message are you sending to the county given that the tiny homes coalition is not mentioned in the report

1:44:24The directive by the mayor was uh, very specifically to a city-led project and staff did a great job of addressing it

1:44:31um, so it uh, that's why I would suggest a separate motion needs to to uh, to to be um,

1:44:39Crafted if if council is interested in endorsing or working to endorse

1:44:44um us moving forward

1:44:48The second recommendation then through you mr. Mayor staff be directed to forward a copy of the report to social services

1:44:56and land ambulance committee

1:44:58does not

1:45:00Satisfy your need for an endorsement as well

1:45:05Uh, it speaks to the to the strong mayor's directive right it doesn't speak to to the um the direction

1:45:12That we're seeking today. Okay

1:45:14um through you mr. Mayor

1:45:16Um

1:45:18You mentioned that this could be part of the solution to the problem

1:45:21I'm going to pick up on some some nuances here

1:45:24Is this a temporary? Is this a solution to the problem or a temporary solution to the problem?

1:45:29Is there an exit strategy that we might look at in the future or i'm struggling with the word temporary and i'm going to ask the staff the same question

1:45:36What do we mean temporary housing for some people or a temporary site? Right

1:45:42Temporary is a loaded word both for the service providers, but also for residents in in those potential tiny homes

1:45:50It you know we we want to create I think this is part of a permanent solution because we see it as a pipeline into

1:45:57Fully supportive and transitional housing

1:46:00Um, so I think it's temporary in in that in that nature

1:46:04um, but we need

1:46:07We need those permanent and supportive housing units to come online

1:46:11As has been noted there's 108 units coming online in terms of permanent supportive housing

1:46:16That's you know, that's unfortunate tip of the iceberg from our perspective

1:46:20um that was highlighted as well in the um in the letter from um the service providers where they uh on page two

1:46:28um

1:46:29They highlight there will still be over 100 known individuals who will be left without an option once all the new units are filled

1:46:36right so um

1:46:38it's only

1:46:39Temporary as long as we keep moving in the right direction, which is

1:46:44permanent

1:46:45Supportive housing which the city has been in the county have been in great job with kindle with um grace gardens and so on

1:46:53This is again. I wanted to be a temporary. Let's make it temporary

1:46:58Thank you. I have a ton of questions. So I want to go through a letter you sent us today

1:47:02um

1:47:02Through through you mr. Mayor

1:47:05You identified clearly rules that Kitchener did in what happened there in the sense that's closest city. I think it's best

1:47:12um

1:47:12Managing regulatory approvals for one. Uh, what regulatory approvals are you talking about?

1:47:19I want to apologize to the mayor through you mr. Mayor. I should have said that in the last few answers. Um, still still practicing

1:47:25um

1:47:26so through you uh, mayor Guthrie to council alt

1:47:30the uh

1:47:31In terms of the city of kitchens and approvals. I believe they used a public use designation for their project

1:47:37um, and that's through

1:47:39any city zoning bylaw

1:47:41that enables the city to um and any project to essentially

1:47:47Be designated as a public use meaning that uh, then you're exempt from

1:47:51traditional

1:47:53zoning change requirements including planning act requirements

1:47:57Then you also mentioned uh staff flexibility or the letter did sorry the letter from kitchener mentioned staff flexibility

1:48:05What do we mean by staff flexibility?

1:48:08Okay, you're asking me a question that this the former CEO of the city of kitchens or spoke to that's correct. Yeah, um

1:48:16That's a good question staff flexibility. I I think that uh, you know with what happened with the city of kitchens or is that the city stuck to its own lane

1:48:24Um, as you know, the the county of orlu is the social service manager

1:48:30um, what the city did in kitchens is they

1:48:33um

1:48:34worked on things that they're good at which is uh, in-con support so

1:48:40uh, waste pickup

1:48:42at the site bus

1:48:45and transportation

1:48:47Uh, supports at the site

1:48:50and and uh fast tracking approvals

1:48:55Two last questions

1:48:57In the letter it's referenced to uh, there's reference to the region of waterloo and i'm presuming the parallel is the county here

1:49:03The region of waterloo was not engaged until later

1:49:07Is there significance to that?

1:49:12You're asked through you mayor Guthrie to councillor Allt

1:49:16um

1:49:17I'm I'm sorry. This is not my social services and homes is is not my bailiwick in terms of my work

1:49:23So I I don't know what the relationships are or the dynamics are in the region there

1:49:27So I I would be answering out of turn. Okay, or surmising out of turn last question. Even though I've got a time

1:49:33I'm not going to ask them all

1:49:34You made reference reference has well my concern. I shouldn't say reference yet

1:49:39I'm concerned about operating costs. What are we expecting from the city in your estimation?

1:49:47um

1:49:49So in terms of the budget there's there's two significant budgets, uh again through you mayor Guthrie to council alt

1:49:56Uh, there's two significant budget one's the operating budget and then um, the other one is the uh, the capital budget

1:50:03um

1:50:04I

1:50:05I know that um, the rural city mission did did work with us on a budget. I believe

1:50:11We're looking at and I I I have to go through my notes. Um

1:50:17I can speak to the capital budget

1:50:20Which is between 1.3 and 2.6 million depending on the site

1:50:26Um, so that was developed by a home builder the uh, I'll have to get back to you on the operating budget

1:50:32But it's it's it's it's over 200,000 a year

1:50:36Okay, and thank you very much and thank you very much for your passion on this issue. Thank you

1:50:41Thanks council alt uh to councillors downer and then boosted till please

1:50:46Thank you through you mr. Mayor to mr. Merkel-Longo. So on your um

1:50:51The information that you've provided to the city

1:50:55Um, you did a request for proposals that ended in the end of april. Did you get any response to that?

1:51:03Yeah, so we hadn't just similar to the city. We had with minimal traction in terms of private landowners

1:51:08Through you and mayor Guthrie to to councillor downer

1:51:12Uh, we had limited traction uh to that request for proposals. Okay

1:51:18Also, you mentioned in here on that proposal on when you went out that the project will carry limit

1:51:25Liability insurance included tenant insurance and would I and demnify

1:51:30The landowner for any liabilities associated with the project taking place on their land

1:51:35So so is that something that that you are still

1:51:40Willing to new and and are there insurance companies that would ensure?

1:51:45a tiny homes project

1:51:47Through you mayor you got through to councillor downer great question. Um,

1:51:51At this point we are working with an insurance company that has worked with the the better tenacity

1:51:58in kitchens and

1:52:00We haven't explored the full rental costs at this point. We only have the board insurance through them

1:52:06But it's certainly something that we would be um looking at

1:52:09The the reason we we included those terms in our expression of interest is

1:52:14We wanted to make it as easy as possible for a private landowner to say

1:52:19You know, this isn't there isn't a huge benefit to me in terms of

1:52:23offering my property for such a project

1:52:26but

1:52:27If if they can assure me that I won't be

1:52:32They're taking care of the liabilities that I won't be encumbered in other ways

1:52:37Then we thought it would be a more attractive proposal

1:52:40Um, in addition to the expression of interest, I also wanted to highlight that we did approach

1:52:47Individual landowners that we thought had a suitable site

1:52:51For the type of project we're anticipating

1:52:54But again, we didn't get much traction there also, uh, through you mr. Mayor. It says that fencing cameras or other improvements

1:53:03um

1:53:05Would be cut would be covered by the coalition. So would that include washroom improvements or things like that as well

1:53:14Again, it would depend on the site and sorry again through you mr. Mayor gut three two councillor downer

1:53:20um

1:53:22We were trying to create a

1:53:27Terms that again would be attractive to a potential

1:53:31Landowner who would host such a project

1:53:35And you would do all this with fundraising. You wouldn't be asking the city for funding on that

1:53:39We would certainly do as much fundraising as possible

1:53:42Again through you mr. Mayor gut three and what would happen if you didn't reach your target fund reason?

1:53:48three mayor gut three two councillor downer

1:53:51um

1:53:52In terms of our next

1:53:55We would work with ideally, uh, our ask would be to work with city staff to identify

1:54:01um

1:54:02A site delineate budget um

1:54:05Examine funders and goals decide on timelines for those funders and goals and then move forward if viable

1:54:10Okay, if viable. Okay. So the other question um that I have it's around the uh, rural city mission for

1:54:19Them to provide services while also coordinated with extended partnerships with the golf base health and social service providers to assist residents in the community

1:54:28Um, so rural city mission. So they'd be providing interim services now

1:54:34They're not social workers. It's a faith based group

1:54:38How would that happen and then

1:54:41It's sort of a second part to that question is

1:54:44social service partners are

1:54:46stretched for resources now

1:54:49um

1:54:50And how would

1:54:54How and I you know in their letter they're saying like oh, yeah, they can all work together and make this happen

1:55:00My concern about that is that

1:55:03They're often saying that they can't make anything happen because they don't have any resources

1:55:07So I I'm sort of wondering how is this going to be like operated

1:55:12right

1:55:13again through you mayor gut through to counselor downer

1:55:16the

1:55:17I think that there's two components to your question. I think at

1:55:21This point in time

1:55:22There's a lot of service providers that are working with rural city mission sanguine the chc and other service providers

1:55:28That are going to up to 30 different encampments

1:55:32to try and

1:55:34Provide a banding solution to what's going on

1:55:37so it

1:55:39The the idea with the tiny homes communities is bringing people into a community a centralized location

1:55:44Where it's easier to and more cost effective to provide those services. So there's savings in from that perspective

1:55:52in terms of

1:55:53The rural city missions track record. I believe they are

1:55:58service provider through the county

1:56:01And they have professionals that are working

1:56:04through through their organization

1:56:08So

1:56:09um

1:56:10Okay, so that sort of leads me to sort of one other question miss mary

1:56:14So there would still be like if if say there's 50 tiny homes or anywhere from 20

1:56:20There will still be other encampments in the city

1:56:24um

1:56:24And some people will choose not to stay

1:56:28In those encampments those same outreach workers will have to still visit all those encampments

1:56:35So is there really capacity for them to

1:56:38to

1:56:40to

1:56:42Service this encampment as well as all the others that may not disappear and and you know, we

1:56:48Seem to have a growing problem as an urban center

1:56:53Through you mary go through to council downer

1:56:56Um, will there still be I'm not sure but you're right. I think you're saying capacity capacity

1:57:00They'd still have to visit all those encampments because

1:57:04So the people homeless people don't have to

1:57:08Go to that even if it's structured encampment that there's no requirement for them to be there. Some may still choose

1:57:14For whatever reasons of their own to be in other encampments

1:57:19Informal encampments

1:57:22Yeah, um, so again through mary go through to council downer

1:57:26There's there's you can't force people to live in in a in a

1:57:31Supported housing situation. You can't force people to live in a in a tiny homes community. There will be

1:57:37Still to space folks outside of a tiny homes community. I

1:57:41concur with you

1:57:43But at least there's an option right now

1:57:45That's not my question. Sorry. The question is about the capacity. So you said that

1:57:50There's a lot I asked about the capacity of of the social service providers to

1:57:56service this structured encampment with wraparound services, which is what will be needed right 24 7

1:58:04And what your response was while they're visiting 30 different encampments around the city now

1:58:10So they wouldn't necessarily be doing that and they'd be having just have this like

1:58:16I got your imp you were implying that they would only now just be servicing this encampment

1:58:20My thought is they would still have to visit

1:58:23Possibly up to 30 encampments around the city. Yeah, so through you mary got through to council downer

1:58:29The hope is that we go from 30 to maybe 10

1:58:33encampments, right

1:58:35If there's a community where people feel supported where there's where the housing is stabilized where folks are able to work with

1:58:43Um service providers on improving their their lives

1:58:47Um

1:58:49The uh the demand or the on service providers to go out into you know, 100 bridges in it, you know into the

1:58:58Along the speed river or into the downtown will be diminished. Okay, so you don't anticipate any increased

1:59:05costs for our

1:59:06the social service providers in this

1:59:09Because it'll be offset by this

1:59:12I'm just again, that's that's if we build at one thing

1:59:15But I'm just sort of thinking of even like the kindle project where we have to wait so long for service funding

1:59:22There will

1:59:24I I'm sort of

1:59:26worried about the operating costs

1:59:29that

1:59:31May not that the social service community and even the rural city mission may not have the capacity

1:59:38To deal with sure. So through you mayor Guthrie to uh to council downer

1:59:43I think the next step is about having those conversations with city staff and hopefully the county on the capacity on costs on next steps

1:59:53Um, this is the first time that the wealth tiny homes coalition has presented to you as as a model as an option

1:59:59And I think it's I would encourage you to to move forward with let's let's uh examine the capacity the possibilities the challenges

2:00:07Okay, so just right another question too. So I noticed on your website

2:00:13So are those social service agencies part of the coalition like the guave community health center?

2:00:21Um stepping stone or any of the others

2:00:23Because on the on your website, I only see

2:00:27Individuals or is that just the board? I don't see right. I don't see

2:00:33Them as partners on your website not that I saw I mean

2:00:37Again through you mayor Guthrie to council downer

2:00:40um, great question. So the individuals that are part of the coalition are

2:00:45A number of them are staff at those agencies

2:00:48um, and we have certainly

2:00:52Communicated and had meetings with the service providers on that service provider coalition level

2:00:58Um, but they are not part of the coalition at this point in time

2:01:02Okay, so I know staff members there and that are there do not represent those

2:01:06That's right officially and that's why it's a community led initiative at this point. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Thank you

2:01:13Great. Thank you. Uh, boost it till then or work

2:01:17Thank you and through the mayor. Thank you to the delegation

2:01:20I I need to pull this back a bit because um, this report and and the staff

2:01:26Work in this area came through the mayor's directive

2:01:29It didn't come to council. It wasn't a directive of council a debate and so on at the same time

2:01:34What I heard is you also in the community have been having this conversation and for me, it's the problem statement

2:01:41Can you um, tell me about the problem statement because at the bottom of page one on the staff report both from the county and the staff

2:01:49What I'm seeing is is not recommended by the the county social service manager. So help me get in my brain

2:01:56Because again, we've never had the opportunity here at council to have this conversation about this problem statement either from the

2:02:04CSM

2:02:05This is the first opportunity. Can you help me understand what the problem statement because the report speaks to

2:02:11Existing capacity in the city existing capacity in the system. Um, can you help me just

2:02:17Grab sure. Sure. So

2:02:20I'm going through you may or go through to

2:02:22council or boost it till

2:02:26In terms of the problem statement, you know, I think um

2:02:33Yeah, it's um

2:02:37You know, we we do get a lot of questions about the effectiveness of the model

2:02:41And that there's you know, there's only three communities in Ontario this point that have

2:02:47adopted this model

2:02:50The I guess what I would highlight is um, it uh, you know, it there is a

2:03:03The challenge right now is a lot of folks are are not using the the shelter system. Um, that was highlighted in the in the service providers

2:03:12letter

2:03:13That was including your package

2:03:17Couples

2:03:18People with pets

2:03:20People who don't want to be inside people have been institutionalized, etc. They're just not using the shelter system

2:03:25So the tiny homes model is is is saying there's an option here for those folks

2:03:32And so it's tackling the problem from a different perspective

2:03:36Thank you. So what I'm getting is the the lens to this is different than shelter. That's right

2:03:41It's a wider lens and I think a councillor Allt asked my question

2:03:45But I didn't quite get the response which is what is the exit strategy because we heard from the earlier delegation that this is

2:03:52This is part of a bigger process and and I think you spoke to

2:03:58The intention is to move people into more permanent

2:04:03Solution so is that part of the scope and the mandate of this group is to continue to work with a county other

2:04:09Stakeholders and so on because really at the end of the day at supportive housing and wrap around permanent solutions

2:04:15and you know

2:04:17That is what I didn't quite clearly hear

2:04:22Through you Mary Guthrie to council busitel. No, that's correct

2:04:26So we see this as a temporary solution only as much as more permanent solutions are coming online

2:04:33and

2:04:34I would emphasize that

2:04:36the the community led coalition is keenly aware of not wanting to take

2:04:42resources energy away from that task

2:04:46There we need more permanent

2:04:49supportive and transitional housing

2:04:51I think what you'll find is we're developing a stronger ecosystem here in terms of addressing homelessness and once the

2:04:59The tiny homes project is established. You'll see advocates working

2:05:03to

2:05:04Or more advocates working towards that goal of permanent supportive and transitional housing

2:05:11Thank you. Just two more quick ones

2:05:13So one of the recommendations from the staff report is to you know, bring this to the social services committee

2:05:19If that connection happens the report is there a conversation at that committee

2:05:24Will you be delegating and bringing forward animating what you're doing here at that committee?

2:05:30Through you Mary Guthrie to council busitel

2:05:32Yes, that that is the intention. We intend to to bring our voices to bear in those conversations

2:05:38Thank you and through the mayor just my final question is similar to a councillor down down there is talking the service delivery plan

2:05:46um, and

2:05:48You know, it's in addition to the human resources and providing the wraparound services

2:05:54Is food and toilet paper and all those other kinds of operating

2:05:58Operational costs. Have you had conversations with the county around Ontario works and housing amounts coming as part of that

2:06:07financial operating kind of model to

2:06:09Because yes, there's the services delivery that make this successful wrapping around

2:06:13But also, you know, those other kinds of costs and how does that fit into your model? Thank you

2:06:19Again through you mayor Guthrie to council busitel

2:06:21Great question. Yes, we've had those compositions of the county. There's a shelter allowance

2:06:26and in the case of the region Waterloo and and the city kitchener projects the shelter allowance

2:06:31odsp and ow goes to

2:06:36Deferring some of the costs related to running those projects

2:06:41Thank you. Thank you or work and then goer

2:06:45I thank you, merga through my colleagues have answered asked most of my questions. So through you to mr. Mercolango

2:06:52Um, so we have some letters of support from different agencies in the community

2:06:56I share my colleagues concern around the availability those wraparound services we saw with

2:07:01Kindle with the fully formed broad coalition

2:07:04Like professional executive directors all of that

2:07:07Lots and lots of delays well. They waited for funding for those wraparound supports

2:07:11Um, that are really key. So I'm just wondering within

2:07:16Within all the service providers, right stepping stone the poverty task force. There's there's just some folks

2:07:22I don't see on the list

2:07:24Is there a consensus around?

2:07:27This as the right solution at this moment in time

2:07:34Uh through you merga through to council or work

2:07:37Uh, great question in terms of consensus, uh

2:07:41if um in terms of

2:07:45Um, you know, we we would

2:07:48If we do get the go ahead

2:07:50From council to move forward and to work with staff

2:07:53We would certainly formalize those conversations with the service providers. It's taking place on a more ad hoc basis up to now

2:08:00Okay, so through you merga three to mr. Mercolango. So so similarly it's happening in parallel

2:08:05I understand the urgency 100 percent. I understand the intent

2:08:09It's happening in parallel to the work from the health and housing symposium as well, right? Are you connected into that process?

2:08:17Again through you merga three to council work. Yes, we're certainly tapped into that network

2:08:21And we did participate in in the housing symposium

2:08:24Okay, and through you merga through my last question is so i'm hearing somewhere between endorsing like this sounds like a great idea

2:08:31And committing, you know, potentially five million dollars 2.5 on on capital and 2.5 on operating

2:08:36Which is the only number we have from kitchens, right?

2:08:39Have we looked at

2:08:41Or has your group looked at other alternatives for for the use of that funding?

2:08:46We're talking about a substantial amount of money, right?

2:08:49Um, which ends up being about a hundred thousand dollars per person

2:08:52If it's 50 people

2:08:55So is that really

2:08:56According to you according to the county according to that coalition of people like that's going to be the best leverage point

2:09:03Again through you merga three to council work

2:09:06I just wanted to spell

2:09:09Something here the

2:09:11The 2.5 and 2.5 so operating and infrastructure cost that you're you're

2:09:17You're setting out this afternoon. That's with the

2:09:21The regional waterloo project, right? So that was led by the municipality. It's um, it was

2:09:27On municipal lands, etc

2:09:29the model we're we're hoping for is uh more closely aligned with a better ten city

2:09:35And the costs there were more and more competitive

2:09:37um

2:09:38So the the infrastructure costs there were eight hundred fifty thousand dollars and they're

2:09:44They're operating costs are between two and three hundred thousand dollars a year

2:09:48Okay, so it is a it's a more attractive number. I think for for communities

2:09:53Okay, I appreciate that and you would imagine sorry merga three through you

2:09:57You would imagine some of that would all be worked out through the conversations that are to come

2:10:02Again three may or got through two council work. Yes, that's correct. Thanks

2:10:09And last I have is uh, no I go to a work and then I'll go to uh, kate and billings

2:10:14I'm meant to say goller. Sorry everybody goller than kate and then billings

2:10:23Um, thank you, uh through your worship to to mr. Mark Mark along go first

2:10:28Thank you, uh for the work that your coalition is doing in our community. I think that's it's important

2:10:33And and I do believe that that having a centralized site will alleviate a lot of the work for

2:10:39Um social service providers. I think like you mentioned going from 30 sites to potentially a dozen would be would be an improvement

2:10:47Um

2:10:48Something that that i'm trying to wrap my head around you're mentioning that the you're expected operating costs are in the

2:10:56200 000 mark the the staff report told us that it would be

2:11:01possibly

2:11:0240 000 per

2:11:04Per tiny home per year. So could you help me understand that the the difference between what staff looked at and what your group is

2:11:12is proposing

2:11:14Again through you may or got through to council goller

2:11:17um

2:11:19Yeah, so the the discrepancy in costs or an operating costs

2:11:22Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to speak to them. Um, those were developed by uh, rural city mission

2:11:28That has a track record

2:11:31I I have looked at some of the operating figures from various projects the the peterborough project again

2:11:36Which was a municipally led project their expenses?

2:11:40Last year just for on security were close to 70 000 dollars, right? So the um

2:11:47In our own internal discussions

2:11:49There was a thought and a feeling that if we have a 24 seven coordinator and if things are being run

2:11:55um

2:11:56in in in terms of

2:11:58Working with social workers and professionals

2:12:01Those that security

2:12:03Cost could be eliminated as an example. So there's ways to reduce the cost depending on the approach in the model

2:12:10I also want to highlight we have

2:12:12Up to 65 volunteers that that have come to the fore wanting to assist with both the build and the ongoing operations of the project

2:12:21And that's another way to to bring them the cost of course. There's there's a coordinating aspect which

2:12:27Does cost but volunteers can also bring them the cost as well. Okay. Okay. Thank you for that clarification. I appreciate it

2:12:34and a couple of my council colleagues have asked this already, but I just wanted to to be

2:12:39crystal clear the request of city council today is for an endorsement and and

2:12:47that

2:12:48As councillor or ox said is we believe that that you're doing good work

2:12:53What else is there beyond?

2:12:56That that council believes that the coalition is doing good work in our community

2:13:00through mayor Guthrie to council goer

2:13:03I think if you could provide direction to that, you know, we work with staff to on the next steps

2:13:09That will be very helpful. That's that's a full-time endorsement from our perspective. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate it

2:13:15Thank you worship. Thank you councillor

2:13:18Katen and in billings

2:13:21Thank you through you mr. Mayor to mr. Marco Lungo

2:13:26I'm wondering

2:13:28When do you need to have all your answers by in order to meet your goal to have this ready for winter?

2:13:34right

2:13:37again through you

2:13:40through mayor Guthrie to councillor kateon

2:13:44Probably like a month ago

2:13:47Um, but that's just the nature of where we're at

2:13:50Uh

2:13:51We we want to you know, I I've emphasized in my remarks that the need for

2:13:57Answers as soon as possible for you know, there's there's an urgency here

2:14:01As you know, the county did provide a temporary solution to some of the displaced folks in the downtown through the uh

2:14:08$600,000 plus that came from the federal government. And so they were housed in

2:14:13In hotel rooms over the last few months that fundings run out

2:14:17We're seeing tents pop up again in the downtown and nearby

2:14:22We we so that that's a flag for us that you know, there's there's a need here for for this type of project

2:14:31You know, we we it takes time to procure tiny homes it takes time to build them it takes time to procure the

2:14:39The the portables we've priced the things out

2:14:43Our the builder working with alan is very capable

2:14:46He's has a connection to this point with builders

2:14:50of tiny homes and of

2:14:53of portables

2:14:54it's

2:14:56You know

2:14:57There's the procurement, but there's also the funding aspect and and unfortunately we're we're running out of time

2:15:02So that's a definitely a challenge

2:15:07There is I do want to emphasize there's a ton of goodwill in the community to make this happen

2:15:13Um, but we need a location and we need to know that we need some certainty in terms of a commitment

2:15:20By the city and hopefully the county

2:15:24Thank you. Um through the mayor to mr. Mark Galongo

2:15:29So for my community with environmental sensitivities the current shelter system is one of the

2:15:37least accessible options just because

2:15:40Noise sounds different smells allergies and things like that. Is that something that your group is looking to address in your model?

2:15:51again through you

2:15:53Through mayor Guthrie to council again. Yes, that's certainly something we were considering

2:15:57There's been discussions about low voc paints the type of construction materials that are used

2:16:04and

2:16:07yeah, and

2:16:08you know proximity to

2:16:10For instance, um, yeah

2:16:13That the site not be close to industry for instance is a consideration as well

2:16:18Great. Thank you. That's all my questions

2:16:22Thank you, uh, counselor and the last one I have a molest is billings. Please

2:16:28I just named a little bit more clarity on the financial model that you stated

2:16:34The capital site. Um, you said around 850,000

2:16:38So what what does that give us how many how many units does that include water wastewater?

2:16:44Electrical hookup like what what does that 850 represent?

2:16:49Sure, uh through you mayor Guthrie to counselor buildings

2:16:53Um, just to clarify the the $150,000 was the cost of a better tent city

2:16:58That's the the costs that were provided to us by that community that was built over. Um, four years

2:17:04Um, yeah, almost four years

2:17:07And they actually moved twice. Um, I think they were able to

2:17:12To build that site at a really cost effective rate because of

2:17:16They built it over time in phases

2:17:19And uh, our costs are higher. Uh, we're looking at I believe I mentioned to you between

2:17:261.3 and 2.6. That's that's the range we're looking at so the costs are higher for the infrastructure

2:17:32Um, so a better tent city was able to hook up to servicing. Uh, so they are on school board

2:17:41Property in in in the k-double area

2:17:44They are hooked up to to water and and sewage

2:17:48through municipal services and

2:17:51Those services were provided in kind by the municipality

2:17:56And how many units was that?

2:18:00Again through you mayor Guthrie to counselor buildings. Uh, they have 42 tiny homes

2:18:05Hosting 50 people. Okay. Thank you for your help

2:18:11Thank you. That's all the questions we have. Thanks for staying and answering all those questions. Appreciate it

2:18:17Thank you. We have just a few more delegations everyone with uh, uh, Michael Keegan is coming up and then in the wings is morgan dandy

2:18:34Thank you and welcome

2:18:37Thanks

2:18:40Do I start?

2:18:42Okay, uh, thank you. Uh, my name is michael keegan

2:18:46I want to be clear that i'm here to represent my own views and observations

2:18:50On this issue and i'm not representing anyone or any organization in my remarks

2:18:56Uh, I should tell you that i've been a civil servant at both the federal and provincial governments

2:19:01I've been political staff including a chief of staff to a former premier

2:19:05And for the past 10 years i've been working on public policy in my own private practice

2:19:09Including on public supportive housing projects in this community

2:19:13In short, i've been working in and around government for the past 25 years

2:19:16So i've gotten informed perspective on public policy decision-making structures

2:19:21Structures and the inherent challenges of politics. I know enough

2:19:26That I do not envy your plate

2:19:28Uh, but I do believe we have a complex problem here

2:19:32um

2:19:33and uh

2:19:35Anticipating some of this uh from the c.a.o.'s uh remarks earlier

2:19:39There's what I would call the political problem and the policy problem

2:19:43On the political side of things. I think the recommendations out of this report risk creating a perception

2:19:50That the city's of gulf is doing nothing to address this complex problem

2:19:55I know that's not true

2:19:57But it sure could look like it from the public at large

2:20:01On the policy front, I think this report does acknowledge that there is a problem

2:20:07It acknowledges that more needs to be done, but it concludes that the city of gulf

2:20:12Shouldn't take any further action besides forwarding the report on the structured encampment or tiny home community

2:20:18And I can understand the conclusion the way it's been framed

2:20:21But I don't believe that this should be the end of the statement

2:20:25If you accept the conclusion of the report and this isn't the right path forward

2:20:29Then what is and what's next?

2:20:32Uh, and I think that's that's the policy question

2:20:36There's a problem here requires more. What is it?

2:20:39The experts tell us that tiny home community can be part of the mix of interventions and supports

2:20:44But even if you don't agree we all acknowledge that there are gaps that need to be addressed

2:20:48And the absence of a clear plan of action that's coordinated means that

2:20:52These kinds of projects continue to pop up people want to contribute people want to solve this problem

2:21:00And I would highlight that the city of gulf doesn't own this problem or have full responsibility for dealing with it

2:21:06But there is more that can and should be done and you can do more while staying in your lane and recognizing your limitations

2:21:14From my own experience and work

2:21:16I would offer that the kindle project is a case study in a different kind of approach that respects the limitations of city responsibilities

2:21:24And has seen considerable success

2:21:26through community collaboration

2:21:29The city played a key role in convening experts and community resources and thinking about the challenges

2:21:35differently the city played a role in enabling

2:21:39uh

2:21:40Played an enabling role without taking on responsibilities for ongoing funding of operations

2:21:46Um, that task was taken on by the kindle partners themselves working collaboratively collaboratively with the city the county and private sector partners

2:21:54We know this community has the insights the commitment the assets to get things done

2:21:58But we really need city and you as counsel to use your powers of convening

2:22:03To use the political billy pulpit to create an enhanced imperative for action

2:22:08And to let people know that you're seized with this issue

2:22:12And I think to make requests of the county and hold them accountable

2:22:16Uh as the service provider

2:22:19Provide the community with confidence that you are on this challenge

2:22:24Even while acknowledging the limitations of your responsibilities

2:22:29Uh and and your capacity to act to act

2:22:32So my request today

2:22:34Um, if you are going to move this over to the joint committee, uh at the county

2:22:41It should be accompanied by a request

2:22:43What is the expectation? What is the accountability? I would submit

2:22:48That there are four things that I would request politically

2:22:52I would ask you to communicate explicitly that you're committed to action and progress

2:22:56From the policy perspective

2:22:58I would ask that you explicitly request that the county

2:23:02Develop quickly that robust plan of action. What are the gaps?

2:23:06What are the needs that address these gaps?

2:23:09Whether a tiny home community is part of that or not who does what what resource do you need and from whom?

2:23:14A commitment to action a request that

2:23:17You move to more fully embrace the community or a collective ability to collaborate and convene the community to help

2:23:24Develop and implement that plan of action and then leadership

2:23:27You're already providing leadership step into that role and take this opportunity to continue to lead this community

2:23:34And collaborate for a better wealth. Okay. Thank you so much. Michael. Is there any follow-up questions to michael counsellor busatil, please

2:23:44Yes, thank you and through the mayor. Hi, michael

2:23:47um, so i'm going to go back to the the beginning of of a problem statement

2:23:52Because what I heard from you is the starting point is there's a problem here and yet what i've heard in the report

2:23:59And some feedback what I assume is the county saying

2:24:02And our staff who rely on the the county's expertise is that there is no problem here that there's existing capacity

2:24:08And what I heard from the the delegation from mr. Mark along go is that it is the type of capacity that is there that doesn't allow

2:24:17Couples or pets and so on so that's a different problem statement and expanding and stretching

2:24:23That kind of a conversation versus going on a different path

2:24:26So can you speak a little bit to your view of what is the problem statement? Then you spoke about plan?

2:24:33Yes, absolutely. I'm a big planner love plans a plan needs to be had

2:24:37But what we i'm not clear on is there's the capital side of a plan

2:24:42It's the service delivery and as you referred to kindle that service delivery two halves of the walnut have to be there for it

2:24:49To be successful and the timing around that

2:24:52And also what I haven't heard is the overall community context that we're in

2:24:57And if we're opening the top saying we're going to give money over here the city as politicians

2:25:01We're going to do this it has impacts over here on the families that I get phone calls from in my area saying I can't take anymore

2:25:10The burden i'm going to be homeless soon myself

2:25:13So can you kind of put those weave those together the problem statement?

2:25:17The planning because it's more than just the capital. It's also the service delivery

2:25:22and that

2:25:23contextual

2:25:24Of where I mean, you know, you hear it all the time. There's only one taxpayer

2:25:28I didn't and so we're contributing to that problem if you can comment on those that would help me. Thank you

2:25:33Okay, I will do my best

2:25:37Let me just say in the context piece first. That's the last question. I don't

2:25:42Think that the city has to fund any of this. I think that there are

2:25:48Roles for the city to play perhaps in kind perhaps identification of land and things like that

2:25:54But but I would take the point that

2:25:57You have limitations

2:25:59Both in terms of what your lane is and also in your capacity

2:26:02To to spend money. So I think that's a fair question

2:26:06I'm not sure that I can answer that because we need to go to the second part of the question which is around

2:26:11What is the plan?

2:26:13And I think for me this continues to be the core issue

2:26:17Um, we have this very complex problem

2:26:21Uh around homelessness mental health and addiction

2:26:25and and in the previous uh delegation someone asked a question about

2:26:30Well, aren't we trying to end homelessness and and I would submit that that's actually not

2:26:36A realistic goal what we need is a better ecosystem of

2:26:41stabilization support progress for people who are

2:26:45In a wide spectrum of crisis and circumstances

2:26:50More people will become homeless for a whole bunch of reasons

2:26:53We can't end homelessness, but we need a better system of of

2:26:58Stabilizing supporting and making progress with people in those circumstances

2:27:03So to me the real problem here is how are we collectively you the city us as the community the county

2:27:10And beyond

2:27:11Defining this complex problem in a way that we can start to chunk out things that will make sense

2:27:17So I think the kindle example is a really good one because what you did is you convened experts that said if we thought about this in a

2:27:24Different way, what would it look like?

2:27:27Now the problem with that of course is that then you went and had to get capital operating dollars as you

2:27:33referenced

2:27:34Inside a system that wasn't designed to support a project like that because it was too out of the box

2:27:40And this is where I think there's community assets

2:27:44And now some experience on how to navigate and what I call paint outside the boxes

2:27:50But that requires some kind of leadership and convening of those assets and the development prioritization

2:27:58and then execution of something that's coherent

2:28:02And and respects the lanes and respects the limitations and but solves for them

2:28:08Let's acknowledge them and then solve for those. So I'm not sure I totally answer your question

2:28:12That's a very complicated question

2:28:15If you got follow-up, I'll do my best

2:28:18No, I think you captured it. Thank you

2:28:22See oh, sorry councillor work has a follow-up to

2:28:25Thanks, mayor. I got three three you to mr. Keegan. I'm just curious

2:28:30Uh in january and then again in april. I think the county did convene

2:28:35A broad spectrum of people including people with lived experience people from all of the service delivery agencies

2:28:41um

2:28:42And so when you say that

2:28:45When we go to the social services committee, we should be you know committing to action

2:28:49We shouldn't you know force them to convene more to lead more

2:28:54So I understand that there's a time constraint and that we want to get things moving quickly

2:28:59But when you say they should convene

2:29:02more conversations

2:29:04What does that look like that is different than what has been done because they they do have people working on

2:29:10Identifying all those points of greatest leverage from all the conversations at all those tables

2:29:16So I'm just wondering what you think the next step is

2:29:19From that because they really did have all the right people from a health perspective from an indigenous perspective

2:29:25You know from a lived experience perspective. So what am I misunderstanding what your intention is when you're saying they should convene

2:29:32Uh

2:29:34Yes and no so

2:29:37in terms of the specific

2:29:42Uh project here around tiny homes community in the coalition

2:29:46The report says that the service manager has said that's not needed

2:29:51Didn't say why so there must be some rationale

2:29:54Which implies that there's some kind of

2:29:56Colisey framework in which you could say well, we don't need it because we have this or we don't need it because a better intervention looks like that

2:30:04But that's not here. So maybe exists

2:30:07And it's just not transparent or maybe it doesn't and if it doesn't then it needs to exist

2:30:13On in terms of the convening by the county

2:30:17We've had a collective results report. We've had two housing symposiums. So we've got great process

2:30:24The process has to also be balanced against outcome

2:30:28I haven't seen any outcome. Maybe they have all this. I don't know

2:30:32Adam doesn't know, you know, I'd be worried about what his headline is going to say on saturday, right?

2:30:37I don't want the headline to be the city finds another way to do nothing because I don't think that's true

2:30:42But how do we

2:30:43How can we share that information? What is the plan? What does it look like? And if there isn't one, okay? It's complicated

2:30:49It's complex. How do we get it?

2:30:51What's the next step? So if I was in your place, I would say county

2:30:56What's the rationale for this recommendation has to be based on something other than somebody's gut feeling

2:31:03And if it's not then we better get some kind of framework in which we can make good decisions

2:31:09Because this is a tough conversation

2:31:13Okay, thank you

2:31:18Thank you so much. There is no more questions. Thanks so much Michael for staying and answering those questions as well

2:31:24We have two more. Morgan dandy is coming up next and then ingrid uh, oh, this is going to join us by video

2:31:49Before I begin my actual delegation

2:31:51I want to extend my gratitude to city staff for producing this report in approximately 40 working days

2:31:59As well as a thank you for compiling the 2025 budget confirmation planning information report in approximately 25 working days

2:32:08After developing the public space use bylaw in 11 days

2:32:14If a round of applause was with in chamber decorum, I would lead one now

2:32:20chair

2:32:21committee members staff and fellow residents

2:32:24I'm grateful this report was issued so swiftly following the mayoral direction

2:32:292024-b4

2:32:31pronounced on february 28th

2:32:34I am glad the information report on the potential budget impacts of the mayoral direction

2:32:402024-b2

2:32:41was released first

2:32:43Because it foreshadowed the staff recommendation to not take any further action on the temporary structured encampment site

2:32:49So I was not surprised this time

2:32:53I was surprised at the end of february when mayoral directions b2 and b4 were issued on the same day

2:33:01Because I could not see how both a reduction of the municipal portion of the 2025 consent budget to 4%

2:33:09And the establishment of a temporary structured encampment

2:33:13could possibly be achieved

2:33:16to my mind

2:33:17These two directions are in opposition

2:33:22As was noted in the minimal consultation possible in the truncated timeline

2:33:27Individuals living in encampments have requirements of wraparound services

2:33:33And these services are predominantly of a discretionary nature within budget

2:33:39As the information report on direction b2 details

2:33:44Items of a discretionary nature

2:33:46Are the only areas where budget reductions to attempt to meet the mayor's 4% can happen

2:33:54I hope that in addition to receiving the report today

2:33:57This committee will provide staff with direction to continue meaningful engagement with individuals who have lived or living experience

2:34:05Of being unhoused or housing insecure

2:34:09To determine how the service under city

2:34:13Responsibility can be changed to best meet the needs of our most vulnerable citizens

2:34:19And finally

2:34:21I encourage working with county social services and citizens grassroots groups

2:34:29endeavoring to fill the most urgent gaps

2:34:32To help meet Ontario human rights

2:34:35With equal opportunities in housing and services

2:34:40Thank you

2:34:42Thank you. Are there any questions?

2:34:45Seeing none. Thank you. And we'll go to ingrid oles who's going to join us by video

2:34:53Is ingrid on? Yeah. Okay. Here you are. Hi. Thank you. Ingrid. We can see you. Can you just test your audio? Hello

2:35:01Yeah, we can hear you as well. Thank you for joining us. You have up to five minutes. Okay, and you go right ahead

2:35:07So good afternoon, and thank you for allowing me to speak at this opportunity to speak on the matter of the tiny homes

2:35:13In the past I was an unhoused individual myself and I currently work as frontline worker with many of our community's unhoused individuals

2:35:20I am also a member of the

2:35:22Park tiny home coalition along with many other frontline workers and concerned community members who are working together to try to make a change

2:35:30When I was unhoused things were beyond difficult

2:35:33My sole focus was on surviving things like seeking assistance for substance use or looking for work that may hire you

2:35:40Is impossible

2:35:42There were nights spent alone freezing just waiting for the morning to come and pray that praying that I needed through

2:35:48I stayed in an abusive situation in order for me to have a place to sleep and be warm

2:35:53No matter where you find yourself while you're unhoused you never feel safe and are constantly in survival mode

2:35:59I lost my belongings more times than I can count and each time it happened the hopelessness was overwhelming

2:36:05My situation was horrible, but the current state for our unhoused folks is so much worse than dire

2:36:11There are less places to go the cost of living has skyrocketed

2:36:15An opioid epidemic has added more barriers more hurdles that without support and a roof overheads is impossible to overcome

2:36:22Now working with our folks every winter. We see more suffering burns frostbite and death

2:36:28There are people who will freeze and attend night after night in january and is unacceptable in 2024

2:36:34We are a privileged community and this needs to change

2:36:38With the tiny home coalition we see our folks who are unhoused. We speak with them. We support them and we care

2:36:44We are a competent capable group of community members with a goal to have a place for folks to stay warm

2:36:50And breathe a sigh of relief this upcoming winter

2:36:54There is not one solution to the housing crisis. There must be a variety of options with a centering of what people want and see for themselves

2:37:01Having tiny homes in guave is not only an excellent option, but a tangible solution to address some of the increasing needs within our community

2:37:09The shelter system isn't accessible to everyone for many reasons and living in a tent is rarely sustainable

2:37:16With high rents in guave individuals who receive o w or o dsp have no chance to rent a room let alone an apartment

2:37:24With the scarce options available right now. We are seeing how hard it is for people to make any significant changes for themselves

2:37:31The coalition is trying to create a housing community where basic needs can be met

2:37:36This has an enormously stabilizing impact on individuals

2:37:40There are many organizations in guave that care deeply and are committed to addressing enormous needs

2:37:45But we will never be able to truly provide healthcare and create community if people keep getting displaced

2:37:52Community members are trying to survive through intersecting multiple health crises at the same time

2:37:57such as the housing crisis toxic drug supply

2:38:00mental health issues

2:38:01trauma

2:38:02criminalization

2:38:03A rising cost to living high risks of infection and isolation

2:38:08The increased needs are greater than what supports can address

2:38:11Unfortunately, this means that people are going without healthcare for not receiving a continuum of care and most care is crisis driven

2:38:19In seeking input from another perspective from a peer from the sanguine community fan about a tiny home community

2:38:25Their opinion is centering an individual's autonomy and choice is the goal of farm reduction

2:38:30When people are provided a variety of options that they can choose from

2:38:34There are greater health outcomes and greater project success

2:38:38Tiny homes will work wonderfully for some people

2:38:41It's a place to live that belongs to the individual

2:38:44A place that provides adequate shelter from the elements where one can personalize their environment and store belongings

2:38:50This will allow for a much native breath allow for feelings of safety belonging and most importantly hope

2:38:56Additionally people can choose the supports that work for them and invite in more wraparound care

2:39:01Which will lead to more stability and needs being met and I fully agree with this

2:39:06This will benefit our community and will be a great option for some people offering a number of housing options will make the needs of more people

2:39:14As well as putting relief on the current shelter system

2:39:17Working with a tiny home coalition and seeing our vision come to fruition gives me hope

2:39:22We can be a beacon of compassion a role model in other communities who have also have so many people living in dire circumstances

2:39:29And with the help from the city and other community organizations, we can change so many individuals lives

2:39:35We can give hope and strengthen our community as a whole together. We can make this happen and change well for every community member for the better

2:39:44Well, thank you so much ingrid. Thank you for waiting till the end to being our last delegate

2:39:49Is there any follow-up question for yes counselor busatil?

2:39:54Through the mayor. Thank you ingrid. It's linda busatil. Thank you for sharing your personal story. I think that

2:40:01Is really powerful. I have a question for you because an earlier

2:40:05Delegate talked about what are we doing here? Are we looking to add homelessness?

2:40:10And from your view, you know, we these tiny homes are temporary and yet we've heard the shelter system, you know is broken

2:40:18It's not quite meeting all the needs and so on

2:40:22And maybe this is an affair question, but what's the next step? I mean if if the the tiny homes is temporary

2:40:29What's the next step and who's going to lead that is is this the coalition that's going to say we're going to create?

2:40:35Uh, uh, a next step that looks different as we heard from one of the delegations if you can just you know from your grassroots

2:40:43Kind of on the ground conversations. I really appreciate that. Thank you

2:40:47um through the mayor to

2:40:49Counselor busatil. I think first off

2:40:52Thinking right now in the circumstance that we are in that the goal is to end homelessness is

2:40:59unrealistic and so far off

2:41:01Um every day the situation is getting worse. So this is one step within a housing continuum

2:41:09Um to create more options for more people so more people can be successful in what they consider success

2:41:17Not every option is going to work for everybody and this is going to fit

2:41:21um a piece of the puzzle

2:41:23Um, and we need to advocate for more supportive housing more affordable housing

2:41:27Um, but this is just one small portion

2:41:31of a bigger piece

2:41:33Does that answer your question? Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Ingrid. Thank you so much

2:41:38I see nobody else with other questions. So you have yourself a great rest of the day. You too

2:41:45Okay, everyone that is the last of our

2:41:49delegations

2:41:50so um

2:41:52As I had mentioned to counsel before

2:41:55um

2:41:57There is uh, I think it's wise for us to move into a closed session just for a bit of information from our staff

2:42:04um, and so I'll ask um

2:42:07The clerks to put the motion up on the screen for a moment

2:42:11And then I can turn to my colleagues here to see if there's a mover and a seconder for that

2:42:17That the council of the city of golf now hold a meeting that is closed to the public pursuant to section 2392 a

2:42:23Of the municipal act with the security of the property of the municipality or local board

2:42:28to consider possible temporary structured encampment sites

2:42:32wondering if someone will be willing to

2:42:37Oh, yeah, yeah, we're just getting more information then we come back out here and then the it's all on the floor

2:42:41Yeah, but would someone be willing to move that councillor Allt and would someone be willing to second that councillor Klassen

2:42:47Thank you. I'll call the vote then as anyone against that

2:42:51Nobody so um, we'll go into closed session for a moment and um, I you know for those that are here waiting and whatnot I

2:42:58Very firmly believe that it will not be long. Okay, so I got all thank you

3:15:20Okay, I'd like to call the meeting to order and open session, please just as a summary from

3:15:25From being in camera we did receive information in regards to the safety and security

3:15:30Specifically to potential sites and such so just just so you know

3:15:35That's what was disclosed. There was no no direction given. Okay on on that an official direction

3:15:41Um, okay, so we're back

3:15:43Um, okay, so we have the motions that are from the report

3:15:49However

3:15:51There is another motion that has been

3:15:55Crafted that uh, I'm wondering if someone will be willing to to move for me

3:16:01Okay, maybe

3:16:03Maybe we'll let me look at the ones first. Thanks. God. Yeah, I'll just

3:16:08Why don't you do um

3:16:11Yeah, okay, councillor downer will move number one and number two which the first and then we'll get to the

3:16:17To the other ones. Okay, so number one and number two the first one's quite straightforward is that we're receiving

3:16:22And the second one is that we would like this to be sent over to the joint social services and land ambulance committee with the county. Okay

3:16:30Um seconded by councillor caller. Okay for those two. Is there any anything on those two?

3:16:36Okay

3:16:37Councillor before I call the vote go ahead think thank you

3:16:40Through your worship to to staff. Thank you very much for the report and as as the delegate mentioned for your quick turnaround time on this

3:16:48Um, I had a couple of questions of clarification on on page one of the report

3:16:52It says although the city continues to its work on the development of more affordable housing options

3:16:58and I think I think we agree that

3:17:00you know

3:17:02Any sort of encampment is is a band-aid but what we really need is affordable housing options

3:17:08Could you help me understand?

3:17:10On on page one on the report when we say

3:17:13We continue work on the development of more affordable housing options. What do we mean and what is the city doing?

3:17:19to

3:17:20develop affordable housing options

3:17:24Sure through the mayor to councillor goller

3:17:26I think one of the most recent options that I can point you to is the housing accelerator fund

3:17:30And the housing accelerator fund has committed the city to a demonstration site on affordable housing as well as a community improvement plan

3:17:37Or cip that will focus on

3:17:40affordable housing and

3:17:41I think uh dca homes has some additional things to add

3:17:44And through the mayor council goller. Um, we're also working on the affordable housing strategy. So as you know, that's come back

3:17:51That that is planned to come back a couple of times

3:17:54For finalization by the end of this year

3:17:57Okay, so thank you for letting me know I look forward to to hear more about the affordable housing strategy

3:18:03um

3:18:04On on page four of the report, uh, we we mentioned that

3:18:09There were a review of private land submissions and there were no viable. Could you let me know how many?

3:18:14Private land submissions were there

3:18:20Through the mayor to councillor goller. I believe it was around 10

3:18:24That said, I don't believe that all of the lands that were submitted were submitted by the the owner of the property

3:18:30And certainly not all of them were in wealth or nearby

3:18:33Guelph. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank thank you for that. I I really appreciate that. Thanks for letting me know

3:18:39um on

3:18:40On page five of the report it talks about the city being committed to a human space approach to housing

3:18:46and housing stability

3:18:48now the report recommends that

3:18:52That we not take any further action on this. So I'm just trying to understand

3:18:57How we are committed to to a human rights-based approach to housing and yet we're saying

3:19:03Well, we shouldn't take any further actions at this point. I'm just trying to

3:19:06To connect the two of those

3:19:12Through the mayor and a councillor goller. I certainly think we are doing work along the housing continuum to support folks

3:19:19with a with a

3:19:21With a human rights-based approach to housing and the county as our cmsm is critical in this journey as well

3:19:27And I think that's where the second recommendation comes in is that there are a lot of additional supports

3:19:33We talked about the different kinds of needs that people have for

3:19:38Housing be it housing with a partner housing with a pet

3:19:41For example, and I think those are conversations best had with the joint social services and land ambulance committee

3:19:48Okay, okay, and this is

3:19:50Thank you for that. I appreciate and I really appreciated that list of everything that we would be required to provide as a municipality

3:19:57Help me understand. What is the purpose of sending this to the

3:20:01joint committee because I'm reading the report

3:20:05That effectively says that this is outside the lane of what the city of gual should do

3:20:10But I didn't see a request for for the committee to take any action

3:20:14So what what is the purpose of of moving this to the next group?

3:20:20Through the mayor to councillor goller

3:20:23I think part of this and maybe I'll pass it over to cio steward is because they are our cmsm

3:20:29They are the experts on social services

3:20:32And so that is where this rightly so needs to sit that was also a recommendation done before

3:20:40We had seen the delegations and the requests that were submitted

3:20:43And so the desire is for the county as our cmsm

3:20:46And we do have four reps who sit on that committee to be considering this but I'll pass it over to cio steward to see if he has more comment

3:20:53So thank you and through the mayor

3:20:56To echo that because they are our cmsm. That's where the conversation belongs

3:21:02It has to happen there and it doesn't just have to be here's a report

3:21:07It's here's a report

3:21:09We understand we know that you do not support temporary

3:21:13encampments

3:21:14So if you don't what's the answer?

3:21:17Because we all hover around the drain on

3:21:20What's the exit strategy? What's the plan?

3:21:23They are in charge of the by name list that you would start to begin who may arrive at the sites

3:21:29But what's the plan to move them from a whether it's

3:21:33Some sort of shed or tent to actual

3:21:38Housing that is moving them along on their journey

3:21:41That's the folks with all the expertise and you've got to hear from them

3:21:45If not this then what and that's similar to the conversation here

3:21:49But the key factor that is missing is the county of wellington

3:21:53And so let's have it there and I think with the greatest of respect for your council colleagues

3:21:58You have assigned roles there to them as well to carry some messaging

3:22:03And so there's some messaging here this evening that might get carried forward to the the joint social services committee

3:22:10And if not this what in the world would we ever take to that joint social services line ambulance committee?

3:22:16Other than perhaps some ems stuff

3:22:19Because you know that that's their sole purpose and we approve the terms of reference

3:22:23So I think that you can get momentum by going there if you want something else other than this

3:22:29If you're all for temporary structured encampments

3:22:32You've got to ask them to then support it in the way that they might and how would that be done?

3:22:36And I think all of you had great questions, but I'll pick on councillor down or tonight you drill down on an awful lot of

3:22:43Detail because the detail in this case is important

3:22:46Who will go to all the sites whether it's 30

3:22:49But add one because it'll be if there's a new one. There's a new one. So if it's 12, there's 13

3:22:54Where will that support come from? It's got to be available 24 7

3:22:58There's a number of things that have to take place

3:23:01That's the place to get these answers because we're structured for them to lead us through this

3:23:06And we can support it and if everybody's on for temporary structured encampment and it happens to be city public property

3:23:13Then we've got a great role to play to shore that up and support that and support us council

3:23:17So that was a bit long-winded council to goller, but hopefully that's helpful and to

3:23:22Sort of understanding the role and perhaps the expectation that might happen on june 12th

3:23:27Yeah, I really appreciate that and and I think when you said if not this then what that's that's what I was looking for

3:23:32so in terms of process

3:23:36To not make something up on on the fly with this

3:23:40Whatever council will approves today becoming back at the end of the month

3:23:44So that we have a little bit more time to maybe create a new motion that says if not this then what?

3:23:50So so that we can actually request the response

3:23:55Through the mayor to council goller, uh

3:23:57That depends the motions that are before you right now that we're in the staff report

3:24:01No, because those uh, those do not

3:24:04Require coming back for ratification at the end of the month because there are a referral

3:24:08To the county that's a receipt and a referral

3:24:11If there are other motions that you pass tonight

3:24:13Then that may in fact trigger it coming back at the end of the month

3:24:16Which the clerk can assist you with because that's more of a clerk's kind of question. Thank you for that. Thank you

3:24:24Okay, so we're only talking about what's on the floor right now, which is receiving and sending

3:24:31My friend council are we doing comments and questions right now?

3:24:35Sure again only referencing

3:24:38Just does this yeah, absolutely. So go ahead and then I'll start on that clarification mayor guthrie

3:24:43I am going to cautiously support this

3:24:46Motion and I think it's important for us to consider many of the cautions

3:24:51First of all the first one is financial and that is the mayoral direction on budget puts us in a bit of a constraint

3:24:58We've asked boards and we've asked the county to consider limits on on what their budgets would be to us

3:25:04I'm concerned about timings and permissions as well

3:25:07Um, I'm also very much concerned with something that uh, mr. Keegan said the city does not have to fund any of this

3:25:14I'm not convinced that we necessarily will not have some longer term obligations

3:25:20Equally for the uh for the tiny homes coalition. I really am concerned about an exit strategy on this

3:25:27While this is

3:25:29Temporary per se. I'm still not clear on what temporary means tiny homes by definition

3:25:34Are a place to shelter people but are they truly what we wish to envision point of order?

3:25:39Council all I think you're talking about the motion that might come forward and not the report

3:25:44It's the only way that I can support the the report is cautiously

3:25:49It doesn't speak to the tiny homes

3:25:52Okay

3:25:55Councillor Goller. I'm sorry councillor all it's just that we're receiving it

3:25:59No, I've never heard anyone really want to give comments about receiving something and then

3:26:04And then that this report be forwarded to county. That's it. Those are the only two things

3:26:09If and if other motions go on the floor, I think that might maybe be in tune with what you're talking about now

3:26:14Well, then I will state that the county is our agent for social services and they're not here to respond

3:26:20And that to me in some sense is extremely important

3:26:23Uh, because ultimately this will come down to something that has not yet been mentioned in this report

3:26:28But will ultimately be mentioned either at the end of the month or further on and so we need to recognize

3:26:34That there are many questions that we have still let's move it on and hear what the uh, the answer might be

3:26:43Thank you and leon. Did you have a question just done? I want you wait. Okay

3:26:48I'm sorry. I called you leon. I'm sorry. I did that's a second time at that councillor caron

3:26:53Um, okay, I'm going to call the vote on this is anyone against the receiving and the sending

3:26:59Nobody okay, so that's unanimous

3:27:02I I have a motion that has been crafted a little bit

3:27:07Maybe differently and I think it would be faster and a better sequence if we if I just look to councillor caron

3:27:15Oh

3:27:16All right

3:27:19To table the two motions that you sent to the clerks. Would you mind doing that instead of having to amend this one?

3:27:25It's just faster. Absolutely. I okay. I forward it to the clerks. Yep, and then a seconder

3:27:31I would imagine that's I haven't come up on the screen

3:27:35To my colleagues. It looks like it would just be a

3:27:38It's basically a split of what was originally sent around so that there's two motions

3:27:42So I instead of having a whole amendment deal. I think it would be

3:27:46I think councillor caron is just kind of laid it out well in the two so

3:27:50Can I get a seconder for that?

3:27:55Okay, I'm going to go with busatil. I did see busatil's hand go up there. So now that that's on

3:28:01Um, the floor is there any questions only at this time? I'll go I'll go to the order

3:28:09Just in case people don't have this in their package online. Can we read the motion? Sure?

3:28:14Sorry, but that yeah that city's the first there's only two and the first one is that city staff identify any potential suitable municipally owned sites

3:28:23Including site servicing requirements zoning requirements and other necessary approval processes

3:28:29As well as identify potential cost implications to the city foresight preparation

3:28:35And that number two that city staff be directed to work with the county wellington's housing services staff

3:28:41To evaluate and determine the viability and suitability of the gulf tiny homes coalition proposal

3:28:47And to gauge the county's potential involvement in the project and that staff report back to city council

3:28:53No later than july 2024 or sooner

3:28:57Okay, still seconded by councillor Busuttil. I believe and then is there any questions on this before we continue?

3:29:04I think I saw the mover first

3:29:06So I'll go to the mover to or work and then down and I'll work my way around. Okay. Yes

3:29:12Uh, thank you and thank you for for crafting the motion. I don't want to take full credit for moving it

3:29:17When it did come through through them as a result of the mayor's direction

3:29:22My question is to staff is we don't have a general manager social services

3:29:28This is all off the side of the desk work

3:29:31dcao clack bush and our intergovernmental

3:29:35Ms sales you're doing this work and guiding this work

3:29:40Resourcing these directions. Can you give me a sense of the landscape of who's going to do this work?

3:29:46What kind of resources and what's coming off the table?

3:29:49Because it appears you are now our general manager and dcao of social services

3:29:54So through the mayor to council cron it's absolutely a concern for us and we had that discussion. I think earlier

3:30:00To the earlier question from council galler does this need to go to the end of the month?

3:30:04It will need to go to the end of the month because one of the reasons is if it has

3:30:08A significant impact on staff workload, then it does need to go to council at the end of the month

3:30:12So in answer to the question this will need to go to council at the end of the month because it has a significant impact on staff workload

3:30:18We don't have a general manager of social services

3:30:22We used to and we eliminated that position back in 2014 when I think we thought we were sort of sending all of this over to the county

3:30:30And so we're going to need to quickly determine

3:30:34How we're going to resource this?

3:30:36I think the three of us, um, you know, we we brought anthony's position on board

3:30:41But that wasn't to handle a project like this. This is very significant and this is going to take us considerable

3:30:48time in the next few weeks

3:30:50So we're going to need to go away and figure that out

3:30:52And figure out what we need to pause in order to get this report back to you by july

3:30:57So I I think it's unrealistic to think we're going to be running anybody else in to help us

3:31:02So what is going to need to happen is that we'll need to have a conversation and come back to the executive team to talk about

3:31:07What's going to need to pause in the next few weeks that we may have been trying to get to?

3:31:12And I'll let miss sales jump in because she may have some specifics from her team

3:31:16From my area. Um, this is going to have some highly operational

3:31:20Impacts for myself for mr. Godfrey for some of the other staff depending on what the site selection is

3:31:27So we're just going to need to figure out what things are on our work plan

3:31:30And so you may see that there may be some things on

3:31:34Even on

3:31:35Outstanding motions that there are some timelines that are going to need to shift in terms of when we're reporting back

3:31:40Just because we're going to need to shift some things. So that was a bit rambly

3:31:43Thank you for the question and we will

3:31:45Do what we need to to get back to you in july and I'll let miss sales comment on some specifics that may need to shift in her area

3:31:52Certainly so the two projects that we talked about related to the housing accelerator fund

3:31:57We're sort of next up from a housing stability perspective

3:32:00And those projects will likely have to pause until after we get through

3:32:03This piece of work to return it to council

3:32:06That work is also in partnership with planning and development. So we'll need to chat with them a little bit about the impacts as well

3:32:12Okay, thank you and and and I appreciate the answer to those questions

3:32:15It doesn't prevent me although I do have concerns

3:32:18It doesn't prevent me from supporting the motion because I think if we don't take action

3:32:23We're still going to be dealing with this whether we

3:32:26Whether we give you direction to or not and I hate to say it because the tulips are still blooming

3:32:31But winter is coming. We know that they're evolving seasons all end up

3:32:37Coming back to winter eventually. So the timeliness of taking action

3:32:41Requires us to to give this direction now

3:32:45So from what I understand if your answer and it's just a yes or no is that

3:32:49You will have some of that information for us by the end of this month

3:32:53As to which projects are being delayed or deferred or or coming off the table entirely through the mayor. Yes. Okay. Thank you

3:33:02Thank you. I'm going to go to

3:33:05Downer next and then I'll work

3:33:07Yeah, so I'm just raising a concern around staff that I've sort of noticed in this motion

3:33:15And it's it's that staff

3:33:17Be directed to work with the county of wellington housing services staff to evaluate and determine the viability

3:33:22so

3:33:24What if they say no, I mean, I mean we can't direct their staff to work with our staff

3:33:30and so

3:33:32um, you know

3:33:34They may not want to like there's a lot of information coming to the june meeting

3:33:39Of the joint social services committee

3:33:42My understanding was that we were going to get an update from the symposium

3:33:48There was other updates we're going to get from the funding that was used in the winter for the

3:33:54hotels there is

3:33:56A number of updates that we're going to get their action committee is starting to from the symposium is starting to meet

3:34:02Councillor Goller's on that

3:34:04But I'm just wondering I worry about this second part. It's it's kind of um

3:34:10That we've created in us. We have an assumption

3:34:13That their staff is going to work with our staff, but

3:34:20I mean they they they're focused more they want to focus my understanding

3:34:24Come before is on more permanent solutions. So

3:34:27That's what they've expressed. Maybe not, you know

3:34:31I don't know how public like that's what I might read is so

3:34:35um

3:34:36We can't direct them to work with us. So

3:34:41So through the mayor to councillor downer, I'm going to start and then I'll pass it to ceo stewart

3:34:44It's one of the one of the things I just wanted to clarify about because I know uh, you received the correspondence from

3:34:50Mr. Wilmer about the better tent city and it's one of the issues that we understand and there are two different

3:34:55Structured encampments in the region of waterloo the better tent city which is operated by the third party not for profit and the region of waterloo's

3:35:02Um, herb street location, which they operate and one of the challenges with the better tent city was that they didn't work in cooperation with the

3:35:10cmsm

3:35:11Which ignoring funding or services for a moment the cmsm is who oversees the by-name list

3:35:19And who has access to who should be the priority to get the spaces and so

3:35:25Everything else aside one of the reasons why I think we feel strongly that we need the county as our cmsm to be part of this

3:35:33Is that they do they are the keepers of the by-name list?

3:35:37And that is one of the challenges that we understand did and has continued to be an issue

3:35:43With the the the two structured encampments in the region of waterloo

3:35:46But um, I think there's much much broader issues again

3:35:49And so to the question of what happens if the county says no, I'll maybe pass it to mr. stewart

3:35:56through thank you, uh dco click which

3:35:59um

3:36:00That's a fair question and they might because they don't support

3:36:04the the temporary structure encampments

3:36:07But that I think is a wonderful discussion

3:36:10For the four counselors on june 12th and the staff from here that will be there as well to put that at play

3:36:17And how does it connect and I think that's really what you're stretching or perhaps

3:36:22Trying to get the county to come to how does this connect to simply

3:36:27The housing symposium action plans

3:36:30Like what if they're doing this already and we just don't know it?

3:36:34Now I I don't believe that to be factual, but it's that how does it all come together and get connected?

3:36:39And I think that's the

3:36:41That's the june 12th opportunity. We'll have bring brought some stuff back at the end of may

3:36:46Here's what we have to stop doing to do this

3:36:49Here's the cost to do it

3:36:51And and you've and you've got the big broad strokes costs, of course you've got that already if it's just us

3:36:56I'm separating out now perhaps any others running these things as

3:37:00as dco clack bush has talked about in our neighbor and community

3:37:05But I think that's got to be the conversation so that we can buckle down with the county of wellington

3:37:10And if not that then what what's the plan so that you can see those numbers continuing to drop

3:37:17And I just I don't have them here to tip on my fingertips

3:37:20But that's that's the measurement tool how many people are on this list?

3:37:24And how are we getting the by-name list and how are we getting that number down?

3:37:28That's a that is a kpi

3:37:30Albeit we're talking about humans the measurement tool to then reduce it so if not this way what way?

3:37:36And I think that's then the coordinated piece that we can hear from

3:37:40The folks that put all the symposium work together the action committee

3:37:45How does this tie in and then I think to the delegates tonight

3:37:49Then there's a place for that true coordinated spirit of community

3:37:53And so I don't know that they'll say no councillor downer

3:37:56But what if they're like no we're not sure and we've got a work plan too

3:38:00So I hope the June 12th will maybe be it and then maybe there's a special committee meeting of

3:38:06that joint social services and that just might be a

3:38:10June-July of slugging

3:38:12If we can kind of keep coming back to winter is coming

3:38:16And if that's the premise then if we keep coming back to that I think the county councillors to be fair

3:38:21I think they are they I don't know but I think they could be supportive to a solution

3:38:27And then ultimately it will come down to who pays for that solution

3:38:31And I I think that's probably a role that we better get used to if that's where we're headed

3:38:36Because we have got nothing put aside for this dollars and cents wise

3:38:40So that that might be part of our partnership as well with the county. So hopefully mr. Mayor that answers the question

3:38:47It's a great unknown

3:38:49And it's better to ask it to get to that point and I think June 12th is that opportunity

3:38:54So given that I'm just wondering

3:38:57Like I don't mind about our directing our staff in the first part, but do we need to refer?

3:39:03and or the second

3:39:05Motion part of the motion

3:39:08To the joint social services committee to be presented

3:39:12You know that

3:39:13You know we could say we we support this in principle, you know based on

3:39:18the

3:39:20you know

3:39:22But then would they have to take that back to their county council, I don't know

3:39:26They're they're things but I just wonder like do we need to

3:39:30Refer this to that committee is it wrong of us to be approving

3:39:35um

3:39:36Something that we want them to work with us on something we know right now that that they don't approve of or do we

3:39:43We've got other items going to

3:39:46That committee meeting and there's other items about their longer term plans

3:39:52Do we do that or do we I just worry about?

3:39:55you know

3:39:57So we've got this joint committee set up now. Do we do we start going off and doing things by ourselves?

3:40:03Uh without even seeing their full plan

3:40:07And and assuming that they're going to work with us when

3:40:11I'm just sort of like do we refer that part of the motion

3:40:15To that committee and I know there's a time issue, but um

3:40:20Rushing things is not always the best way either

3:40:24So I I like once we had their blessings

3:40:29Are you know they give their blessings to this then I think too there's the opportunity that that scott stewart said earlier about

3:40:37The delegations that delegated tonight can delegate at the county

3:40:41They have an open they then they can be delegating where they should be delegating

3:40:46um

3:40:47With to the county on on the motion that they this is something they want to do all the information

3:40:53They've provided to us and and the opportunity to the county to ask them questions

3:40:59um

3:41:01Would be there as well

3:41:03This is my struggle with this. Um

3:41:07We've we've worked hard to get back into that kind of a committee structure

3:41:12I am concerned about making a decision

3:41:17Uh

3:41:19Kind of directing them to work with us

3:41:21um

3:41:22and

3:41:24And without really seeing their full information that comes on the 12

3:41:29um

3:41:30And not having them being part of this discussion with us

3:41:35That's my my dilemma right now

3:41:39Colleagues

3:41:43Sorry, let's move on from there, but thank thank you. I mean I swing back if there's another question

3:41:49Um or work and then caller

3:41:52Uh, thank you marigot three. Um through you to

3:41:56Council really?

3:41:58um

3:41:59Perhaps miss clack bush

3:42:02Do we need to be looking at a complimentary amendment that would seek that information on alternatives

3:42:07That could emerge from that health and housing symposium like the motion is very specific to

3:42:13Can you please look at this proposal and I actually want to say

3:42:16Thank you to the tiny homes coalition

3:42:18They've got their arms around all these people who want to help because we get the emails. How can we help?

3:42:23Where do we volunteer? Can you do more? We hear it and we've been hearing it for a long time and all there's been lots of progress

3:42:30Um, the tiny home coalition has brought all these people together and there's some momentum, which is great

3:42:35um

3:42:37But the the motion says look at this proposal. What do you think about this proposal?

3:42:43And do we need to ask?

3:42:46Do we need to ask if not this then what are other alternatives?

3:42:51Right and do we need language around that or will they just do that?

3:42:57So through the mayor to council rock, I think the challenge there is that we we wouldn't know

3:43:01We would need the county to tell us that we don't have the expertise

3:43:05I mean, this is an unsolicited proposal and I think for you as members of council

3:43:10It's given you an avenue to move forward in the absence of the county bringing this to you

3:43:16Um, we're not the experts in this field

3:43:18And so we're not in a position to bring this forward because as was stated

3:43:23We don't have a social services team to bring this to you

3:43:26The other communities that have led temporary structured encampments are their own cmsms. We're not

3:43:34And that's not an excuse and I know lots of people hear that and say well, that's just an excuse

3:43:38It's it's not it's just the simple reality that we don't have that expertise on staff

3:43:44So I think if that is the desire

3:43:47Then I think that would be something else

3:43:48We would need to ask the county through the joint social services and ambulance committee

3:43:53But I do think we'll come back to the fundamental

3:43:56Challenge which is that as our experts they have said that they don't believe that this is the appropriate response for our community

3:44:04That they believe the bricks and mortar shelters is where we should be

3:44:09Focusing our attentions and if I look to for example, peter burrow it is their help me anthony hpp money

3:44:17That peter burrow used for their temporary structured encampment here in gulf and wellington county

3:44:22The county made the decision to use the hpp funding for more permanent

3:44:28Support of housing and so we have two cmsms that have made different recommendations to their communities

3:44:34That is the decision that our cmsm has made and so I think I'm not at all

3:44:39Disagreeing that that might be something we should ask of them, but I think

3:44:43We're we're probably going to get the same recommendation back

3:44:47Which is that in their best professional advice and guidance they have said to us?

3:44:50This is not what we recommend for this community

3:44:54We don't believe temporary structured encampments are

3:44:58Unappropriate solution and I think they could probably give you a lot of really good reasons and I think has been stated

3:45:05I think we're unfortunately a little bit speaking for them. I think they could probably give you some good answers as to why they don't think they're good

3:45:11A good option and why they think other solutions are better and it's it's hard because I think we're feeling like we're trying to speak for them

3:45:19and so

3:45:21But to your question, I think that's something that could absolutely be asked of them if this

3:45:26Unsolicited proposal that has come forward. We've sort of mapped out a path forward for how we could

3:45:31Take this unsolicited proposal and respond to it and action it and move it forward

3:45:36But I think if that is something that

3:45:38You would like to look for an alternative option as well. That is something that could be asked of the county

3:45:45And I think if I could just jump in uh, count sir quas and has a actually a motion that that she's thinking about tabling in regards to that

3:45:53Exact question. Um, so that would that would maybe come up to capture

3:45:59To capture maybe the conversation that's happening there, but sorry you have still the floor go ahead. Oh, no, that's fine

3:46:06Um, so I have councillor Goller then is my last

3:46:11Thank you through your worship and um, just just a comment before the vote

3:46:16I just wanted to encourage my my council colleagues to move this forward

3:46:21The way that I that I see this we do have the joint committee that looks at social services ambulances

3:46:28This is a request from city council. Can you can you look at this and I fully expect there to be an answer

3:46:33Maybe along the lines of uh, what?

3:46:35What the pdc or clerk bush has said because we've heard that before

3:46:39But I think this is how we have a formal dialogue back and forth and then we get the rationale on what else is happening

3:46:45So so I would encourage my council colleagues to move this forward

3:46:47So they are aware that this is something that both

3:46:52city council is interested in and also it would provide what was

3:46:57Requested by the delegates that we provide an endorsement that we are interested and that we do support the work of the guava tiny homes coalition

3:47:07Thank you your worship

3:47:09Thank you, and um

3:47:11I'll just take comments from councillor Allt

3:47:14And then and then k10

3:47:16And then after that if you don't mind, um, I just have a it looks like there's a tiny amendment here from

3:47:21Councillor downord that would like to be tabled so I'll just hear these two comments and then we'll go to the amendment

3:47:27Okay. Yeah. Thank you very much. Uh, mayor guthrie. There were some questions and concerns that were raised and this gets back to my

3:47:33Back to the future comments

3:47:35I don't think that we can forget that the county is our age

3:47:38And we can't direct county staff to work with our staff

3:47:42But what we can do is we can direct our staff if there is an opening to work with them

3:47:47But within these motions, there's something that I think is very important

3:47:52Right now the city actually spends about 9 of our tax budget on social services and housing or 6 of our total budget on that

3:48:01And within these motions it says the potential cost implications to the city

3:48:07And that that to me is uh is a bit of a concern

3:48:10We should not lose sight of the fact that there is financial obligation from the city from these motions

3:48:17And and that's something that the county is certainly going to address

3:48:21They're not going to say oh, yeah with the money you've got already. We're going to fund this

3:48:24They're going to say give us the cash and maybe we can fund it

3:48:29Okay, thank you. Uh, kateen, please

3:48:35Mr. Mayor I I'm going to support this because

3:48:39right now we have a situation where

3:48:41There is a missing piece in accessibility for a very large number of people whether that be by circumstance by

3:48:50disability or by

3:48:53just having a social life and having a partner and

3:48:58The solutions that the county has in place currently are not meeting those needs

3:49:03And while it's not ideal

3:49:05It's something that will save people from being cold on the street in winter and I think that that's worth

3:49:13Asking for

3:49:17Thank you. Uh, sorry class. Yeah, did you want to jump in and then I'll go to councillor downer. Okay. Yes very briefly

3:49:23Um, I just have a comment. Um, thanks to all the delegates for coming out. Um, I I'll support this motion

3:49:30our community is telling us that

3:49:32they'd like their government to do more for unhoused population

3:49:36And it's it is challenging to sit here and and go back and forth with regards to who does what and who's responsible for what

3:49:44And I think that as a collective of governments

3:49:46We really do need to stand together

3:49:49And and find better solutions for unhoused populations

3:49:53And if that means looking outside of the box a little bit, I'd like to do that

3:49:57Um, I just you know, there's a number of people not represented in this room tonight

3:50:01And I just you know, we were here six months ago

3:50:04hearing from a lot of the business community who both want to help but also

3:50:08Have noted some challenges about our our unhoused population downtown and how that impacts businesses

3:50:16Um, they're not the only folks who I'm I'd like to include in this conversation

3:50:20But I I don't want to be sitting here in December

3:50:24Having the same conversation that we had last December

3:50:28Which is how come we can't provide housing for those folks?

3:50:32and so I think that

3:50:35We we owe it to ourselves and the community to go down all of the rabbit holes of

3:50:42Options, even if the county doesn't think they're great options

3:50:46We still need to look at all of the options

3:50:49And we need to ask for better and we need to ask for more funding so that we can we can

3:50:54We can build these solutions together

3:50:58Thanks counselor. Uh, so let me just uh go to counselor downer. I think uh, she has

3:51:04Wanted to table a possible amendment. So I'll turn the floor over to her

3:51:10Thanks. So I just cleaned up it. I because I just had it. Um, I had it doubled

3:51:19As a few of you have said this is a request and and the previous motion

3:51:24Looks more like a demand. So I like I'm I'm okay if we have if we request that the county of willington

3:51:31Housing staff work with city staff to evaluate and determine the viability and suitability of the gulf tiny

3:51:37homes coalition proposal and to me that's

3:51:40That's that's what we're doing. We're requesting them to do this the other motion

3:51:45The previous motion doesn't it it sort of tells them that

3:51:49that

3:51:50that to do it and and it it I think this is uh, I think going to be much more palatable as a motion going to them that we're going to be requesting

3:52:01So the amendment did you second it counselor? Uh, caron the amendment or no

3:52:06Yeah, but I'll just let the mover continue with the the commentary. I just maybe want to put up that

3:52:11Just pardon me. It's actually a point of order rather than a question. Sorry. I might have the same point of order as our clerk

3:52:17Is this replacing the entire

3:52:20previous motion or just the second clause the second clause

3:52:24So the first paragraph remains. Yeah, I think the clerk can can answer that. Thank you

3:52:29Through you, mr. Mayor. My question is to the mover and uh, if we can display that that slide now

3:52:34It is unclear what this

3:52:36Motion is amending we have two clauses on the floor right now or one and a two and we just need clarity to know what

3:52:42Uh, or how this amendment is applying to those this is applying to the second portion the second motion does nothing to the first part

3:52:51Uh, the first part is still that the city identified provincial

3:52:55So like provincial potential sites, etc. But the second one it just changes it from

3:53:02That

3:53:04That staff be directed to work with the county it it's survey

3:53:07It's that city council requests that the county of wellington's housing services staff work with city staff

3:53:14To evaluate and determine this proposal

3:53:16Okay, so a replacement of clause two. Thank you counselor downer and then is that a third clause the staff report back separated out

3:53:23It was previously included in clause two. We just want to make sure we capture it as you're intended

3:53:27It's included in clause two. I didn't see that as a separate. I thought it was all part of the I'd seen okay

3:53:33Yeah, it's the same

3:53:38So would you would you mind just putting both up uh on the screen for us?

3:53:42I think that would ground us in what we're looking at before we um before we look to vote, okay?

3:53:49And before as you're getting that ready counselor, uh, karan had a question

3:53:54Oh, that was the question. Okay

3:53:56Counselor downer as the mover. Are you okay? Uh, do you need to you're mic is still on did you want the floor still?

3:54:02No, I would just ask staff if this works for them as well as the other one. Okay

3:54:07They're saying yes, they're saying yes. Yeah

3:54:11Okay, we're just we're gonna get that displayed mr. Mayor. We're just to make sure we keep track of things here

3:54:16We have a main motion. Yep. We have an amendment on the floor right now that has not been voted on

3:54:20We're going to display what is effectively an amended motion in both clauses

3:54:24But we'll just be voting on the addition only counselor downers amended

3:54:28That's portion and that's all we can do we can't add anything more

3:54:32Can't have three amendments on the floor so

3:54:35So i'll be looking to um

3:54:39I'll be looking to call the vote here on just counselor downers amendment

3:54:51And it's okay. Take your time clerks. We're no we're throwing stuff at you. So

3:55:05Okay, and so

3:55:07Number two will now read and and just to be very clear number two is being read

3:55:12I'm going to vote to read that out as counselor downers amendment

3:55:16Yep

3:55:17That city council requests that the county of wallentines housing services staff work with city staff

3:55:21To evaluate and determine the viability and suitability of the gulf tiny home coalitions proposal

3:55:27Engage and I can't read the rest because it's blocked off on my screen

3:55:31the county's potential involvement

3:55:34In the project and the staff report back to city council no later than july 2024 sooner. Okay

3:55:39So i'm only going to call the vote then on the

3:55:43The downer amendment. Okay, so here we go. I'm going to do it right now. Is anyone against that amendment?

3:55:49Nope, nobody so that's that's great. So now i'm going back to

3:55:56The main motion as amended, okay

3:56:01Clerks are good with that

3:56:03That's correct. The main motion as amended which is effectively both clauses that would just display one moment. Yeah, that's correct

3:56:09Okay, so then if you don't mind i'll just get thank you for your patience

3:56:13I just want to say something before I call the vote then on those two

3:56:17so um

3:56:22Look i'm a

3:56:24I don't I don't apologize for bringing this forward in the manner that it is because of the urgency

3:56:30That I have felt that it is requires

3:56:34um, it it has been a little bit messy and so for that part I do acknowledge

3:56:38um, and I understand that there's been uh

3:56:42friction or conflict in regards to the lane that we are in

3:56:46Uh, but this

3:56:47This is a major issue in our city

3:56:51We had almost uh, what 20 encampments last year

3:56:56Uh, and as of like may 1st this year, I think the last

3:57:01Uh stats that I heard was upwards to 18

3:57:04Encampment sites that are happening around the city

3:57:07Okay, so the question to me is is that success of a housing uh policy or is that failure?

3:57:16That's failure to me

3:57:18That's failure

3:57:20People living in tents is not

3:57:23Not appropriate

3:57:25And so I want to try my best with all of you here and the community

3:57:31And the county

3:57:33To try and figure this out as quickly as possible

3:57:37And yes, I'm being animated about it because I'm passionate about this

3:57:41We need to figure something out because this isn't working

3:57:45Tents for people is not right

3:57:48So we've got to figure something else out

3:57:51And so I'm hoping that we can uh move forward

3:57:55As a community

3:57:56To try to figure out what the solution is going to be as quickly as possible

3:58:02And uh, so I thank my colleagues on council and staff so much for the conversation

3:58:08But especially the community

3:58:10And I mean my goodness. I've just gotten to know the tiny home coalition. I want to say on

3:58:16In my first blush

3:58:17Shut again they have their act together

3:58:21As far as I'm concerned

3:58:23They they they have the ability

3:58:26To see this through

3:58:29So I I just want to state that very clearly

3:58:32But but they're going to need help

3:58:34And the other thing I want to just mention is because money's been brought up a few times

3:58:39And uh, you know my initial reaction to this is uh

3:58:46To look at a manner in which the city can try to contribute in some way

3:58:52And I think that conversation may come and I have ideas around that

3:58:56But let me tell you something in the last couple of months

3:58:59I have had new conversations with new people

3:59:03New businesses that have come out of the woodwork to say they would love to try and help with fundraising for this

3:59:11Or give money towards something or they would buy a tiny home or buy two

3:59:15Like there are people that are willing to do something, but you know what they're doing? They're waiting for government action

3:59:22They're not going to do anything unless they know something is brewing

3:59:27Something substantial is going to actually come together on this

3:59:30So, um, I want you to know that I feel very positive and hopeful that for the first time

3:59:37We are going to actually look to see something happen here potentially

3:59:41potentially

3:59:42But it is going to create

3:59:45Um an opportunity for further discussions with the county

3:59:50And I am going to have further discussions with the county with my colleagues on the joint social services committee

3:59:55To try to figure out what is what can we do to make this happen?

4:00:00because

4:00:02people intense to me is unacceptable and

4:00:06I went and talked to people intense a couple weekends ago

4:00:10And let me tell you they are they are looking for hope and they are looking for dignity

4:00:17And I believe that this type of a project can deliver that

4:00:23So I'm hopeful for the next steps and I hope the community comes along with us to express that hope

4:00:29In many different ways that that hope can be expressed

4:00:32Thank you

4:00:33With that I'll call the vote then on those two as amended. Is there anyone against?

4:00:40Nobody. All right. Thank you. That's unanimous and I appreciate that

4:00:44Um with that we are at no service chair announcements. I believe to the deputy cios

4:00:51I'll have another motion. I'm so sorry councillor clausman. You had mentioned that and I I got too passionate there

4:00:57So let's let's see if that the clerks have that and they can um, they can put that up on the screen for us

4:01:11And do you have a seconder for this? Okay, councillor Goller. So

4:01:16That gulf city council respectfully requests

4:01:19That if the county of wellington housing services staff determines that the tiny homes coalition proposal is not viable

4:01:26That an alternative accessible solution be presented to address people living in encampments in gulf including

4:01:32A winter plan to support people experiencing homelessness

4:01:35And that staff report back to city council in the appropriate timing to accommodate people for winter 2024 into 2025

4:01:44So, um, is there any questions on this before councillor? Oh, go ahead. You have the floor. Thank you very much

4:01:51To the mover mayor guthrie

4:01:54I I completely understand the sentiment

4:01:56But i'm wondering whom it is that is doing this is this our staff is this council

4:02:02Is this a community that is coming forward with an alternative accessible solution?

4:02:07And the last part of that is are we looking at a different approach to the same thing?

4:02:16Yeah, councillor claus and I think if I could if I could maybe make a point that councillor all is making

4:02:21I think he raises the point that it's almost like if the if the county doesn't want to do this

4:02:28That then does everyone have to come back with some sort of a report about what councillor all is saying?

4:02:33So I think maybe you were looking to say

4:02:37You know that the tiny homes closed probably is not viable

4:02:39I think maybe after that it would be more appropriate to say that the county

4:02:44Provide so that it's yes, not everyone does that answer your question council. Yes, because the way I was reading this

4:02:50I was thinking that it's coming back to us for the city to do this again

4:02:57Okay, and councillor Allt would you be willing to second that amendment then that the county provide so that's more clear

4:03:05Just so I can hear staff let's hear staff first

4:03:08No, you need a seconder before you can hear yeah before we even table it

4:03:11Let's just hear what the response is from deputy ceo claus

4:03:15Through the mayor if we could respectfully suggest this would be very appropriate to then come through the joint social services and land ambulance committee

4:03:21The I think the concern for us is the suggestion that staff report back to council because we don't have any control over what the county does

4:03:29So we are concerned that we are to report back to council on something that we are not producing

4:03:33So I think the county should be reporting to the joint social services and land ambulance committee and then you have four reps at that committee

4:03:41So just to the mover and to yourself

4:03:44Deputy ceo clock bush. Are you suggesting that maybe this could be

4:03:48Removed and just left with the what is that which you're suggesting that left with the four of us that are on the joint social services committee

4:03:55Or are you asking for a different wording of amendments there? I through you. I think our concern is the that staff report back to council

4:04:03I think the report back should be to the joint that it that the report back should be to the joint social services and land ambulance committee

4:04:09that county provide the

4:04:13alternative plan and

4:04:14Report and that county staff report to the joint social services and land ambulance committee

4:04:19Okay, can we put that on the screen? So point of order. We have one amendment on the floor moved and seconded

4:04:24Can we vote on that amendment and then do a second amendment afterwards?

4:04:27Well, I'm about to ask if the what's up on the screen is maybe palatable that I could just ask the mover to remove the first one completely

4:04:33Is that okay? Yep, and then maybe you can second it if you want to

4:04:37Okay, so to the mover I'll give you a second would this satisfy you because if so, I'll ask that the first

4:04:43motion be removed

4:04:48Yes, as you know, I I'll just make a clarification, you know, I know that our joint social services

4:04:54You know, there's four of our counselors who sit on that committee

4:04:58You know, I'd really love to I don't sit on that committee

4:05:00But I'd love to make sure that I'll stay up to date

4:05:02So I will attend like the June 12th meeting and I just want to I'd like to know that this happens if

4:05:08We don't move forward with the encampments

4:05:10So would you be willing to remove your original motion? Yes

4:05:14And would the seconder be willing to remove it? That's you counselor caller and is counsel. Okay with the removal of that

4:05:21Yes, that one's gone. Are you okay with tabling this?

4:05:24Yes, are you okay with seconding at counselor caller? Yes. Any questions on this now?

4:05:30None I'm going to call the vote. Is anyone against that one?

4:05:34Nobody that's unanimous as well. Okay, perfect. Yes. Thank you. Can I speak to it really really quickly?

4:05:40Just very quickly. I didn't get to speak to it at the beginning. That would be so quite out of order

4:05:46Okay, then it would be 20 seconds. Okay. I just want to say thank you and I think it is good to have a contingency

4:05:52Because last year we did ask for a winter plan and we never saw one

4:05:56So I think this is a great next step

4:05:59Thank you. That wasn't even 20 seconds. So I appreciate that too. Okay. I'm sorry about that

4:06:05Thank you for reminding me. So we are at adjournment now and I can I look to a colleague to please move adjournment

4:06:12O'Rourke and seconded by Quran for me. Thank you. And is anyone against adjournment?

4:06:18Okay, no one that's unanimous. Have a great night everyone. Thank you so much for the conversation