Municipal Property and Building Commemorative Naming Committee

0:02to the.

0:07By the indigenous territorial and all of the past, and so we gathered, let us take time to reflect on a privilege to live in working well, a city built over rich indigenous histories.

0:17Your guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land, the people who live here today and the generations to come interactions today can give us to more reconciliation.

0:27We should take pause and make those decisions with the tension and gratitude. This place because wealth has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many people over time, but more specifically, the out of one, Duran.

0:40And the.

0:42You know, show me this land has held as the treaty lands and territory with Mississauga's of the credit First Nation both lies directly adjacent to the whole contract as part of a long established traditional hunting ground for the 6 nations of the Grand River.

0:57Many First Nations in New it and 18 people who have come from across the island called well home today disclosure of your interest in general nature there.

1:13So, what is the.

1:181.3 minutes.

1:22So, so you think approval for March 26, 20, 25 minutes.

1:281.3 minutes.

1:34Thank you.

1:37I just live longer. I don't remember to item for discussion.

1:42So 2.1 is the right east subdivision part naming.

1:47So, our goal is that you will come up with a recommendation for.

1:52Subdivision part should hold.

1:55And we share with your colleague.

2:05Like, I mean, I'd like to say sort of what the park theme.

2:09Yeah, absolutely.

2:12So, we're just spoke to his colleague and so there was a.

2:16Thing that went out from the city sort of work Westing. It was input as to sort of the theme of the park and I think I had included that in that Google Doc. So the options were turtle tail.

2:26Timbergroke and rock bridge or sort of the.

2:30The public.

2:33Providing to and so it sounds like the park is the theme of the park is sort of going to be this rock bridge.

2:42So.

2:49Maybe throws a little bit of a wrench.

2:53I thought process maybe.

2:57I'll just I'll throw it a couple of the ones that sort of.

3:08I reworked some of the ideas and stuff.

3:12So the layout of the park is that there's the park and then through the park, there's this head rope that sort of cuts through the center of the park and then on either side, there's woodlands on.

3:24I depend.

3:27So some of the ones that I had thrown out there were like a drill hollow or woodland bridge.

3:32Parts sort of the idea of bridging those 2 things.

3:36And not entirely opposed to the sort of terrible crossing.

3:42But I think.

3:45Just a lot of reflection stuff I think I can work on people just naming it to the R going without a route name it in English.

3:53And then have like the.

3:55Oh, just wait for inflation just that's underneath or whatever from the perspective of.

4:01I was just thinking of like emergency services and those types of things where.

4:05If you were in the park, any needed to emergency services, then.

4:09You know, to reflect that's a crossing partner.

4:13One of the other names.

4:17And I just think that.

4:22If the 1st nations had come to us with.

4:26It stood on the land and sort of said, like, this is what it's saying to me, or this is how I feel about.

4:33That I'd feel more comfortable in.

4:36Maybe get something that is representative of the people who are.

4:41Bringing to us.

4:44So.

4:47Um, I think we've had a little bit of discussion, but I think.

4:52Whatever all yours everything is saying that makes sense. I just, I just worried this point doesn't make sense to go back to.

4:59I'm picking an English name after we've already been engaging with.

5:04Elders like with that the causing offense or something to say like, no, we're going to go back to the English name.

5:11I have specifically on the common you just made about the emergency services, like I feel.

5:16Like many other cities are doing this using indigenous names to like being partly in places of buildings and stuff. So.

5:22And part of it, of course, if we had a thing that was indigenous would be like.

5:27How to pronounce it or the translation and it'd be kind of like a learning thing and.

5:31People the park would, and I'm sure in the person services, which starts to recognize the park. So I don't know that has to be something that we consider.

5:39There's lots of other.

5:40Involve that people don't have to pronounce properly even in English.

5:45Like that in Burma, it's fast.

5:47But anyway, so.

5:50Yeah, so I just, I think if we didn't want to go back to going with an English specific name and thinking about having indigenous costation for just having like.

6:00A translation underneath and education about it in sign language. That's not a terrible idea. I just want to make sure that we're not causing events by backing out of conversations. I've already started with.

6:11The indigenous.

6:13I'll do this at that.

6:15As long as the first nation.

6:18So, it's a week that we weren't speaking to help their don't think.

6:23Okay, sorry.

6:24But.

6:26Yeah, but I thought for anybody.

6:28Right.

6:30I think.

6:31I'm just listening right now.

6:34I think you both died.

6:37I can see the problem that we need to make sure that our.

6:41And do you feel about naming and.

6:52With the theme isn't.

6:54Yeah, that's a good point to it was going to be like a turtle theme park that obviously it'll test together.

7:01Right.

7:03Going with the turtle, which is what we've been talking about for a while because of the actual population of the species there.

7:11I think still is reasonable.

7:14But I also, yeah, I also see.

7:20Yeah, but I think of going back to like head real or within.

7:24Then we're just back to like beginning of like all these names that we've suggested and we've come through a lot and we've talked about naming after a human before and.

7:31So, and then like brings us back out so they still feel like if we've already been.

7:37I think we're in consultation and talking about naming this park with indigenous language that we have discussed whether or not we can back out of that if that's the way to month go.

7:46I still feel like it's a strong and good time to do an indigenous name on a park because communities haven't exist anymore.

7:54This committee committee sorry not going to exist anymore after a few months and I don't know how the process is going to feature, but it may be a long time before there's another chance that indigenous name is suggested it makes it all the way through to get back to.

8:06Suggesting to city hall of people.

8:08What if we really like you're leaning more towards turbo crossing now rather than just.

8:33Well, I think what we've actually had is we have the last time was to provide them like with a list of names and they would have about it right so.

8:39And I don't want to say it has to be to go across and just if we were going to go with.

8:45Language to provide that and I think that's when I was I think there that I even suggested like there was like meeting place or.

8:55Turtle crossing or community space meeting.

8:57I don't know what they would think of any of that makes sense if you like this wouldn't be how we'd say it something else but.

9:04I've been putting like the species name on the turtle because I found on the Toronto zoo they had a jitway turtle names resource and they actually have different terms for all the different species of turtles that are on tour.

9:15So, actually they would want to pick something else because the first word that was suggested, the mcconnack is like a generic word for turtle, but it actually also references a species that isn't the one that Norderm after all this.

9:29It was like, yeah, I was living open and we would like give them like five or six or whatever things to see what they come up with and then go there.

9:42But I think at that point if we open it up that way and they come back with whatever they come back with, we're not going to be able to say like oh that means too long or too shorter we don't like that name.

9:52Do you know what I mean?

9:53Like, well these kind of, I guess it couldn't be that one, but I think that might be very letting them choose it and suggesting to us what's the best one.

10:05That would be all makes sense.

10:07I think like I'm more open to that even right like here's a list of things that we think would work and if they came back and said like this one's a good one.

10:21Maybe something about that species is a turtle that has worked in their history that they would have.

10:28I can't, I don't want to guess me gay and like saying this, I'll do guess, but it could be like anything could be about the turtle, it could be about like history or mythology or something that could not, but if we give them like a bunch of like names and maybe like a picture of the space like

10:43or a picture of even like the layover shows like they're going to plant more of the gardens and more of the natural stuff back in just to kind of give them a little bit of a reference to.

10:58So can I just back up one here just to help drive us forward a little bit so it sounds like the conversation.

11:06I think the conversation needs to sort of put a period on the idea is, are you going to look at an alternative name to picking an indigenous name or is this committee all heartedly invested in working towards an indigenous name.

11:25And so that we can put that on the table and we can all be in agreement with that move forward and then there can be some discussions about what we want to decide to take back to to the Mississaugas or please for myself and maybe you leave to go back to them and say hey we've got these phrases or these names can you please help us interpret these and make sure that they actually make sense.

11:48Is that is that what I'm hearing or or we just are you guys just talking out loud and there might be on the table still the option of going with an English name.

11:57If we're going to vote on it.

11:59Yeah.

12:03The question is for some reason.

12:10We don't get a reception.

12:17Like they're not supportive then of course we can go back but I think what I'm bringing up was like just the concern of like that.

12:26Are we proposing a name and asking for transit but I don't think that it's kind of the idea of bringing some words and some ideas and then they can name it in their methodology for this shepherding this process along.

12:40Yes, so I feel more comfortable with that.

12:45Yes, I would agree with that but I think this committee needs to at least give some foundation for the Mississaugas to discuss right I don't think we should just go back and say.

12:57What.

12:58100% right so I think we need to you need to pull out some words and some phrases because I think that was one of the important takeaways that I got from that meeting with them is that you know phrases are always better because that's the structure of their language is not single words so.

13:15If that's the way you want to approach this time I'm obviously willing and able to take that information back and see what comes out of it.

13:25So do you want to do you want to.

13:28I don't know if we need to formally vote on it but it sounds like there might be some direction there to lean away from an English word, as I know that you had suggest some other words.

13:38We are right and Megan as well that you had put some words on the turtle crossing turtle park.

13:45Torrance Creek Park.

13:47Pedro Park things like that so are we moving away from those because I think that's the I think we need to sort of make a cup here we need to divide the road.

13:57I'd like to go forward with you.

13:59I continue with the indigenous.

14:01God.

14:02That's what we said.

14:04We're all in agreement on that.

14:06Okay.

14:07So maybe if we give them.

14:11For your for.

14:13I think at least three or four.

14:16Words and phrases that start to help to.

14:21Describe or help describe the park and its surroundings.

14:27We need to like a couple math like.

14:31Yeah, and I'm more than happy to share.

14:34The, the concept with them as well. Right.

14:37I mean the concept doesn't say a lot. I mean it's very schematic right now and it's it's it's very park like so I'm not sure if that's going to help them I think giving them a an understanding from.

14:49From a Google map would help them more because it's obviously a very interesting area it's surrounded by the Torrance Creek there are many, many wetlands there's lots of forested areas and then there's this park.

14:59Space with a connection on either side by the head.

15:03Right so that you know I think you as a committee need to pull out some of that for them and sort of maybe describe the area in some sort of.

15:10Very descriptive words and phrases that we can then take back to them and show them the image and then they can maybe help us decipher what would be appropriate.

15:18And see if any of those work for us and see if they're supportive of right.

15:23So it's not like they were very supportive of.

15:27Anything of anything of us acknowledging.

15:31A name and a dish just named so I don't think we'll come up against too much above.

15:37A wall on that standpoint but I think this committee needs to be very certain.

15:41That what we're trying to describe.

15:45Is going to be interpreted correctly and that.

15:49You know make sense to the area.

15:53We do have like.

15:55Sort of a section I was kind of moving stuff into a section to see like which ones are separate the English ones from the ones we were suggesting for translation that I gathered.

16:05And that's where else is like this species thing so that it is relevant to them.

16:10The actual or that is busy on the turtle if that helps but.

16:15Was that was actually note of the year.

16:18Yes, yes, thanks for your story.

16:20Yeah, that was in there.

16:23Has.

16:25I might have special meaning to that I mean I think we were starting with the turtle thing if we keep some turtles up in there if they decided to make a name and.

16:33There are some things suggested that I'm going to do a turtle and fine with that as well but.

16:37Leaving the turtle concept there because.

16:40Going back all the way to the beginning which was it was suggested by so all different people.

16:44Including in English but there's at least three of them I think that we're submitting turtles a concept for the name.

16:56Okay, so while I just have you guys here do you have any specific words or phrases that you're thinking of.

17:04I think this is going to be again one of these things that we're going to have to take away and maybe over the course of the next week.

17:09Like we just pull together a couple phrases and then I can move forward with it.

17:14But is there anything specific or words or phrases that you guys can think off the top of your head like.

17:20Megan you pulled up Norman map turtle as a very specific thing.

17:25Yeah.

17:27And phrases about the turtle you have a sense of turtle crossing and I don't know if that's like a phrase.

17:32In a sense.

17:34Because I'm assuming a lot of people were suggesting that they're crossing and the roads are crossing in the area and then they were thinking so on.

17:41There was other ones in the spreadsheet that were starting the document that urging the Woodlands Park between the woods.

17:48So if you think like that, but we could probably.

17:52And there are a few more like in the next year or two just.

17:55Okay, sure.

17:56Yeah, I think I just like the idea of it.

18:00And it's sort of the and don sort of reference to it as well like that sort of needs violence.

18:06The bridge between those two.

18:10And then there's a lot of different wetland areas and so it's sort of a.

18:14You know, space for.

18:17And animals to like sort of.

18:19Oh my God, we're writing this down.

18:21Do you mean like there, you're writing it in there.

18:26Like there.

18:30I don't know.

18:31So, like animals.

18:35And so I think that's the type of words that would be good to pull out because there might be some obviously some very appropriate indigenous words or means that represent that.

18:46And I think even maybe just.

18:49To.

18:50Yeah, yeah.

18:53And sort of just express like that's the.

18:57That's just sort of the feeling I get of like what it is.

19:03It suggests all these things and stuff, but then I get speed to him and show him the map and sort of say like this is how.

19:11Like, I just step rather than just sitting and eat.

19:14Yeah, he needs some context for sure.

19:16Yeah.

19:21So maybe we take the whole Google doc and.

19:26Just shrink it down to like.

19:28Sort of top.

19:32Yeah, if you can, if we can, if we can manipulate this and you can, yeah, we can just.

19:37Let us start another Google doc or just have a very.

19:41Scriptive.

19:43Top five.

19:44Yeah, or six and then then we can get back to Darren and say, hey, we've got this. Can you, and maybe he'd be willing to help us work through this a little bit.

19:52Baby steps here.

20:02I think it's important though, right, that we get this right because I think like he said, Liam, I think there's, there was some hesitancy that maybe we were doing something that would be.

20:13Disrespectful and not conscientious of.

20:17Of what they're invited might be right.

20:20Right.

20:21And I agree with you. We don't want to just go with them to say, please.

20:24Trans translate these words and we're going to pick one of the, we think it's best.

20:28Okay, so let's, let's, if you guys don't mind doing that, putting together something and then what I'll do.

20:34As a takeaway is I will take that information and I will.

20:38Ask Darren for a meeting.

20:41And we'll take it from there and maybe.

20:47So it could maybe send him the.

20:49Yes, can we have a call to sort of.

20:52Give him a week or so to look at it and digest it and then maybe.

20:57So.

20:58Disrespectful.

21:00So do you want to set it.

21:02Time line.

21:03What do you want.

21:05Yeah, that's something that matters.

21:10Yeah, I mean, if we can, if we can get something done and get something back within the next.

21:17Week that would be great.

21:19And then if I could send it to Darren by the end of next, you know, made it to the next end of next week.

21:25And then maybe I can try to set up something with him before the end of May.

21:29So please say.

21:31Like a week today.

21:33Yeah.

21:34Everything I do.

21:36This is fine.

21:38Yeah, well it's a brush on your head. Yeah. Yeah. If they can, if they can be, if you can smash it out this week, that's great.

21:44Then I'll, I'll wait to hear back from you, Liam to say this is the final list.

21:50And I'll.

21:52And then we fork that.

21:56But yeah, I know it's this one's.

21:59You know, hard one for us for sure.

22:04You okay with that approach, Tom?

22:06Yeah, I really appreciate the conversation of the committee in this context. And I think just really applaud your intentionality and I think you've landed in a place that will be well.

22:18I'm not sure if you've received by Darren, who I haven't been part of the discussions that Rory has been having with Darren, but he's an advisor to the museums and culture team and has always offered great and very generous advice and capacity for dialogue.

22:32So I think the approach you've landed on feels really good.

22:41Sorry, so about it.

22:43Yeah.

22:45We're going to try to do that. Yeah.

22:47I'm going to try to do this.

22:50I'm going to try to do this.

22:52Not today. We're not going to name it today, but yeah, it'd be great to be able to.

22:58To name it before the summer and, and for me to get a report back to council.

23:08For their consideration.

23:11Because that always takes a long time to always takes like 6 weeks from the time I write the report, but to the time it actually gets in front of council is at least 6 weeks.

23:22So we have to take that into account too. So.

23:26And I know parks is eager to for us to name this.

23:30Okay.

23:322 by 2, 106 for what?

23:35Naming.

23:37Sorry, may I?

23:39Yes, sorry.

23:41May I raise something? It's like, do we do you think that we need to pass motion on that?

23:47And to have a mover and a seconder.

23:49Oh, two point one.

23:51Exactly. So I wrote something.

23:54Maybe I say it first and just let me know.

23:58Okay.

23:59So the committee will provide some concept phrases and descriptions to or descriptions to indigest groups for further transcending into possible indigenous name for the park by, I don't know if the date is good or not, but by the end, but by 16 May 2021.

24:17That's been the next week of Friday. Is it a good date?

24:23Maybe the 14.

24:2514. Okay.

24:27It's Mother's Day this weekend in a miss.

24:30We're doing it tomorrow.

24:32And then it's long weekend the following weekend. So it would be great to get it done this week.

24:38Yeah.

24:40So is the motion motion?

24:43So.

24:44Yeah.

24:46Okay. Do you move in?

24:48Yeah.

24:59Okay. 2.2 106.

25:01Park naming.

25:09Very.

25:12So I think we've sort of discussed and like we want to proceed with recommending the name of slow.

25:19I think just from the discussion, the application itself,

25:28it's a sense of community.

25:30We're going to work with you.

25:33I do have to acknowledge and appreciate the fact that all the information that Don pulled together,

25:38I think that's a really interesting background.

25:40So appreciate that. Thank you.

25:41You're welcome.

25:42That's it.

25:47Okay, so we're going to slow hill park.

25:50And I don't think there's a need for any, there's no need for a write up on,

25:57I don't think it should be based, I don't think it should be about...

26:00First, I'm sorry, what it is, it's a WC.

26:03WC, slow, or WH.

26:05WC.

26:07It was WH.

26:08It was WH.

26:11Anyway, you would like it to be about the communities and their interest as using the park

26:18for the toboggan, rather than using it based on the name of the person.

26:32And you don't require any write up or anything like that.

26:36There might be something on the website that it was named after

26:41the community's use of the history of the park as their toboggan hill.

26:45There's something very simple, right?

26:46I don't think we need to have an educational sign in the park,

26:49but we might have something on the website that just sort of makes people

26:54understand how it would be about them.

26:57It would be a very small commemorative sign.

27:01So I think that's great.

27:02Okay, everyone, I'll let you have to pass a motion.

27:08I guess.

27:08I can pass.

27:10Oh, I can pass.

27:12Pass the motion.

27:13Is that what I say?

27:14Move the motion.

27:16Move the motion.

27:16Thank you.

27:17Ask me if you're able to read something.

27:18Right, I move it.

27:20Okay.

27:21Okay.

27:21Thank you.

27:22Thank you.

27:22Thank you.

27:23And I'll third it.

27:24Thank you.

27:24I'm the analyst.

27:27Good.

27:28Good.

27:32I couldn't have too complicated ones.

27:33It was anything.

27:38Don, did you have anything else to add to any of that?

27:41You can stop your research.

27:44You know, you've sent me down a little rabbit hole though.

27:46So now I have to...

27:48I mean, it's a good opportunity to correct some records also in the museum's archives,

27:53right?

27:53Because now that we understand Sloan much more clearly,

27:58and also to circle back to our colleagues and heritage who's,

28:01you know, who provided some plans and things just to make sure that everybody has the same

28:06understandings and especially for Ross Irwin's book, because, I mean, Irwin did as much as he

28:14could possibly do to verify the namesakes of all of those streets.

28:18But it was done in a period where, you know, access to cross-referencing archives wasn't

28:25exactly available the way it is today.

28:27So, you know, history is always living.

28:29It's never stagnant.

28:30It's never fixed in time.

28:32So this is a great opportunity to kind of make sure that we close the circle on that

28:37knowledge piece.

28:38And I am pursuing Beaumont only because, yeah, there's a fair bit of like misunderstood

28:45history there.

28:47And I will, with Brian Scarrett's help, he has offered to continue to look at Beaumont,

28:54not Beaumont, but Beaumont, the other name, just to sort of cross-tease dot i's and make sure

28:59that we have good understanding, not to suggest that we'll go back and like rename Beaumont.

29:04That's not on the table.

29:05But just to make sure the historical record matches our present day understandings and

29:10go forward from there.

29:11So, yeah, it was, you know, I owe a lot to Brian and Darcy for the time they've invested in this

29:17work.

29:18And thanks, David, also for your tip.

29:21You looked at Beaumont and have been able to find some additional information on her.

29:27So, but yeah, I'm more and more convinced she had nothing to do with Guelph other than this

29:32was the place where she was married to Fred Beaumont.

29:35So anyway, thank you.

29:37Thank you for your patience as I was working through that material.

29:44Point three, chair and staff announcements.

29:51Nothing else of yet?

29:52No, there's no, there doesn't mean any

29:54discussions about the changing of this committee or the recreation of a policy.

29:59So hopefully that will happen in the next couple of weeks.

30:04I think there's going to be some transition there.

30:06Start a new policy.

30:07So we'll see where that goes.

30:08Yeah, we were appointed to be a member at the end of this month, the 27th of May.

30:14And after appointing the ACOC, the new ACOC, that we will just move on to

30:22all the possible steps for all the existing ACOC.

30:27For example, some of them would be like, just like,

30:31I mean, just like, just like cancel something like that.

30:36And some of them we moved to another kind of public engagement.

30:39Yes.

30:40So yeah, we'll keep all the things informed.

30:44You guys informed and all the possible steps from that.

30:46Yeah, good.

30:48And you guys aren't done with this committee yet.

30:51But I also like willing to also offer,

30:55if you come out with whatever the policy is on here,

30:59who will sit on this committee when a park comes up or whatever,

31:04like I'm also happy to provide some feedback,

31:09feedback, direction, whatever.

31:10Yeah.

31:15That's all.

31:16Thank you for your time again.

31:19All the time.

31:20I'm happy to turn it on.

31:22Yeah.

31:23And then next meeting, I don't know, to be...

31:31Well, maybe we'll just hold on to when the next meeting will be.

31:33Like I said, I'd love to be able to get information back from you,

31:37send it to Darren.

31:39Hopefully he can get back to us quite quickly.

31:41I don't know how fast his end of the deal will be.

31:47And then based on that, we'll set the next meeting.

31:50So we have that information back.

31:55And again, what I'll do is I think the best thing to do,

31:57Liam, if you're a supporter of this,

31:58is we'll take that information that Darren comes back to us

32:01and provide that information to Megan and David ahead of the meeting.

32:05So they have some time to digest it.

32:08And then we could be able to come to the meeting

32:09and hopefully point to something like Sloan Hill Park.

32:14That was great.

32:19Going out with a bang.

32:24That's okay.

32:26I've been on the committee for three weeks.

32:30It's the first part of the meeting.

32:33I'm sorry, Megan.

32:34That's okay.

32:34It's being slow.

32:36It's happening now.

32:37Two parks in a few months.

32:40And hopefully whatever you recommend gets to council as well too.

32:46We won't dissolve the committee until the council actually passes the name.

32:52Right.

32:56All right.

32:57Thank you very much.

32:58Thank you.

32:58Thanks.

32:59Thanks, guys.

33:01Thank you.

33:01Have a good night.

33:02Thanks, guys.

33:02Thank you.

33:03Bye.

33:04Nothing else.

33:05I think that's a record.

33:11Now I just have to tell the park planner.