Accessibility Advisory Committee

0:02So if they come, maybe that I will national care so that we can shuffle a little bit about gender.

0:11Is it okay for you? Because at this moment they are not yet arrived.

0:16Oh, I got an email this morning that we needed to shuffle things around to do them right at the beginning.

0:20So is that not happening now?

0:23No, actually in the email I said it's like because the delegate will arriving around the time of that item.

0:34So that I already asked them if they can come earlier that is very helpful.

0:40So if they come, I will actually know is it okay for you?

0:45Well, we'll run out of time for items though because we've added now 15 minutes to the agenda.

0:50So it's kind of not great.

0:55But let me just look for a second and try to figure that out.

0:58Sorry, the email you sent me said like we could shuffle it to the beginning right after the consent agenda.

1:03And I said no problem, we will move it to the beginning.

1:06So if I mean it is kind of we don't actually have time for three delegates to have five minutes each anyway.

1:13So I'm kind of inclined to say that we go ahead with the item and if delegates aren't here to delegate, then they don't have to delegate.

1:22I don't know how I don't know if we need three delegates to each have five minutes from the same organization anyway.

1:29Especially since staff is also presenting.

1:35Yeah, because I just don't want I don't want to spend a ton of time moving around the agenda for last minute delegate sign ups, you know what I mean, like,

1:45Yes.

1:47It's your discretion to do that chair so.

1:52Yeah.

1:55One second, let me just look at the agenda, because yeah, we honestly we don't have time for the full agenda.

2:11As it is if we had to be mad anyway.

2:19I'm confused.

2:22When did you hear from them at all when they are going to be here.

2:26Like did they let you know when they're planning on showing up so that we can figure out the agenda now then because I spent this morning trying to shuffle everything around because.

2:34Because they will arrive according to the agenda items that around 410 to 413.

2:42At this moment I already are sent to arrive earlier if they is it possible for them. So I are sent to arrive around like 330 something like that.

2:51I agree. You asked me to move their agenda. You asked me to move their item and the agenda.

2:56I'm sorry.

2:57I'm sorry.

2:59Because in the email I said if they come I will let you know if you wish you can just struggle with the agenda.

3:08So at this moment maybe I was just according to the procedure by law.

3:14It doesn't say that in the email that you sent me when he it does not say that in the email that you sent in order on yesterday.

3:20Okay. I'm so sorry.

3:24You've requested that the chair can reorder agenda items, for example, reordering the agenda items so that items involving delegates happen immediately after the consent agenda so delegates do not have to wait.

3:37So,

3:40I'm just not sure how we're going to make this agenda work like with these added delegations anyway.

3:49So,

3:53Leanne, I'm not sure what the procedure is here. I'm not used to people telling me at the last minute that I have to find 15 minutes in a meeting anyhow.

4:02So I'm not sure how this was going to work in the first place.

4:06But now like I was planning on meeting leaving partway through this meeting because I've shuffled some things around.

4:14So,

4:18Go ahead, Garrett.

4:21Hey, chair root here from the clerk's office. Maybe I can help provide a little bit of suggestions on how to move forward.

4:30The chair has the ability to move the agenda around, although it's not a requirement.

4:35The procedural by law states that if delegates are registered, they are given up to 5 minutes to speak.

4:41And at this time, if they're not present and the item is currently on the agenda for later within the meeting,

4:47our recommendation would be that you continue on with the agenda as presented. And if we can move forward earlier when they arrive, we can we can handle that adjustment later on in the meeting.

4:57Right now, I would recommend that you start with.

4:59Sorry, I'm just get the agenda up here, but I think we have consent first.

5:04And I would go that route.

5:06Okay, if we don't move the agenda around now, we won't know what's going to get bumped from the agenda to make time for these five minute delegations that I wasn't told about until yesterday.

5:18There are three five minute delegations that we don't actually have the space for on the agenda. And I wasn't told about them until yesterday and I was asked to move them to the beginning of the meeting.

5:27So I'm just I'm just now I have to sit and figure out what we're going to bump and how we're going to make that work.

5:32It doesn't seem like this makes a ton of sense.

5:35But this morning I emailed staff back and said, perfect, I've rearranged things. We will start with the red top taxi. And we will it was like 6am. I think I sent that email.

5:48We will start with the red top taxi item and we will move into these other items. So it's just, this is just frustrating.

5:57Give me a minute. I have to because I use a screen reader. It's not actually this easy for me to just like flip everything around.

6:04Because what I did not want to have happen is the last items on the agenda get bumped for three last minute delegations to get added to the agenda.

6:22Can I make a recommendation then Sherry? Yes, you have the ability to move the agenda around at any time in the meeting.

6:29If those items at the end of the agenda are important to you, move them forward now.

6:34And we can make another adjustment if the delegates show up later.

6:37Let's go ahead with the meeting as it is for now and I'll make a, I'll figure it out as I go, because it's not easy for me to just keep changing it as someone using a screen reader like I said.

6:54All right. So, welcome everyone to the Tuesday, April 15th accessibility advisory committee.

7:05We are going to start things off with the Indigenous territorial acknowledgement.

7:09So as we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in Guelph, a city built over rich Indigenous histories.

7:16We are guests here and we should reflect upon that responsibility to care for this land, the people who live here today, and the generations to come.

7:24If our actions today can move us toward reconciliation, we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

7:31This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many people over time, but more specifically, the Atawanderok and the Haudenosaunee.

7:41This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation.

7:46Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman tract and is part of a long established traditional hunting ground for the six nations of the Grand River.

7:53Many First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples who have come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today.

7:59And you can read more about the Indigenous territorial acknowledgement through a link on the agenda.

8:06So the first item on the agenda is a disclosure of conflict of interest and general nature thereof. Does anyone have any?

8:14I see and hear none.

8:18So moving on to the approval of the agenda, would anyone like to move that the April 15th agenda be approved?

8:27That's today's agenda.

8:32Enortal and seconded by Deborah, thank you so much.

8:36Is anyone opposed?

8:41I see and hear none.

8:43So moving right along to the approval of the minutes from the last meeting.

8:47If anybody's had a chance to look at those, would anyone like to approve the minutes from the February 18th meeting?

8:53We need a mover and a seconder. We have Sue, thank you Sue.

8:57And we have Jeanette, thank you Jeanette.

9:00All right.

9:02So the consent agenda included some information about the accessibility advisory committee resolution that was made regarding our orientation materials specifically.

9:13We made some recommendations in October, specifically just about the orientation manual, and they've included a report in there for us, but there wasn't anything to discuss.

9:21So it's just included in the consent agenda.

9:26So moving along to the committee items, the first up that we have is the exhibition park accessible zip line. Oh, no wait.

9:33Oh, wait, hang on. Yeah, it is. Okay, yes it is. Sorry, it is the exhibition park accessible zip line play feature project.

9:41We have a five minute staff presentation and then five minutes for the AC to discuss.

9:46We have Christina. So go ahead, Christina.

9:49Good afternoon. Good afternoon, accessibility advisory committee members, my name is Christina, I'm from park and trail development planner and I'm the project manager for the exhibition park zip line project.

10:02I'm here to provide you information and opportunity for comments and feedback.

10:08This project is going to be located in Exhibition Park,

10:13close to the existing playground,

10:15on the other side of the north-south path

10:19that's already there.

10:20It is a play feature that will include

10:25both a disc seat and an accessible seat

10:28on two separate tracks.

10:31In addition, there will be rubber tile surface

10:35underneath the entire play area,

10:37underneath both tracks, and it will also include

10:39an accessible route from the existing pathway

10:43to the play feature.

10:47The accessible seat to speak to that component

10:50is the same as many of the seats

10:53as City of Guariff Playgrounds

10:55that are the accessible seats

10:56that are installed on swing sets.

10:59It is rated and tested for up to 750 pounds,

11:03and it has clearance from the safety surface

11:07to the bottom of the seat of 16 inches,

11:10about 406 millimeters.

11:12So that's typical for this type of play feature.

11:17Right now we're in design development,

11:21moving into detail design,

11:23and construction is planned for summer and fall of this year.

11:28So then I'll hand it over to the AAC for feedback

11:32and any questions, in particular,

11:36comments about the access to

11:40and accessibility of this project.

11:43Thank you.

11:47Awesome, thank you so much.

11:50So I see Sue's hand up,

11:51and we do have five minutes now to discuss,

11:53so go ahead, Sue.

11:59I didn't have my hand up that I can see.

12:02Oh, you clicked the hand up button,

12:04or maybe it's just on my end.

12:06Did I? Is it still up?

12:08It is, but that's okay.

12:10That's fine.

12:11Technology.

12:13Yeah, I'm sorry about that.

12:14No worries.

12:15Okay. No problem.

12:17I'll try it again.

12:18Does anyone have any?

12:19Oh, don't worry about it, Sue.

12:20Although, yeah, if you do have a question, I wanna know.

12:23So I might keep checking with you

12:24if you have a question as we move through the meeting.

12:26So, oh, it's gone now.

12:28There you go.

12:30Would anybody, does anyone have any questions

12:33or comments for this, or like to put forward a motion?

12:49All right, I don't see or hear any questions.

12:53Let me just pull up the slides on my end.

12:57Sorry, I've got, I'm working in a different location

13:01than usual today.

13:03Would anyone like to put forward a motion

13:07that maybe we just receive this information?

13:10We don't really have any recommendations to share

13:13at this time, it sounds like.

13:17Yeah, just if there's a motion.

13:18I'm very excited personally about it, so.

13:22Sorry, go ahead.

13:23No, just a motion to accept and approve,

13:25which you enthusiastically just seem to do.

13:29Yeah, I mean, I'm personally very, very, very excited

13:31about this, I looked at it and I thought that the level,

13:34when I first saw this item on the agenda for us

13:38during the planning meeting, I was a little confused

13:41why we were talking about a zip line

13:42because it just said exhibition park zip line

13:44and I was like, that's not accessible.

13:46And then it actually just is very accessible.

13:48So that's cool.

13:50I'm excited.

13:51But in order, would you like to put forward a motion?

13:56Yeah, I'd like to put forward that we,

14:01they've received the information.

14:06Perfect, can we have a seconder for that?

14:08And that we, would you like to also say

14:10that we approve the project as it was presented to us?

14:14Okay, because it seems like nobody has any.

14:18Deborah, do you have a comment or would you like to second?

14:24That was just a seconder.

14:27Perfect, thank you so much, Deborah.

14:29All right, is anyone opposed to us saying

14:31that we approve the exhibition park zip line as presented?

14:39Looks like not.

14:40That was a really straightforward item.

14:42Thank you so much for coming and presenting.

14:44Thanks so much, have a good afternoon.

14:46Thanks.

14:47Thanks you too.

14:48And thanks for your work on this.

14:51All right, moving along.

14:53I'm sorry if I'm a little bit slow.

14:54I had a different, because of the moving things around,

14:56I had set up a whole different agenda for my screen reader.

14:59So I had to swap back to the original one,

15:02but I'm back on track now.

15:03I appreciate everyone taking the time

15:05for me to figure that out at the beginning.

15:08The next item is the Wyndham Street North Barrier

15:10for Street Design and Accessible Parking.

15:13Oh, sorry, did I?

15:17Oh no, just people are coming in, perfect.

15:20So yes, I think we have five minutes for a staff presentation

15:26and 15 minutes for AAC discussion

15:27for the first portion of this.

15:29And then there's gonna be a second portion

15:31where we have another five minute staff presentation

15:33and then another 10 minute AAC discussion.

15:37We've got Andrew, I think here.

15:39At least that's what the agenda says.

15:42Perfect, take it away.

15:43Our point is just very slowly.

15:46That's okay, it's my day today too, we're good.

15:50Clarks can put it on for you.

15:52Oh, I got it.

16:01Hello, thanks for having me.

16:03I'm Andrew Miller, I'm the project engineer

16:06in charge of the Wyndham Street North Reconstruction Project.

16:08We're aiming to start construction on Wyndham Street

16:12next year, spring of 2026.

16:15So right now we're getting pretty far along

16:17in our design process.

16:19And this is where we're finally at a point

16:21where we feel that we can confident

16:23with display the design that we're planning

16:25to put out to the public in May.

16:29And we wanted to give the AAC a chance

16:31to provide some comments on what we're proposing

16:36in advance of that.

16:37So as mentioned, there's gonna be two topics.

16:40The first one is the barrier free street design

16:43that we're proposing for Wyndham Street North.

16:46The barrier free street design is an approach

16:49to the road cross section,

16:51where we effectively eliminate barriers

16:55that are posed by the apps that are named barrier curbs.

16:59So typically the road you would have your

17:02flat tree curb that raised above 15 centimeters

17:08from the gutter up to the back,

17:12behind it with sidewalk and trees and grass

17:16and other features in the downtown context

17:19because the downtown is all hard-scaped

17:23and we're looking to increase the pedestrian

17:28flexibility within the space.

17:30We're looking to implement a barrier free design

17:34with those curbs eliminated completely flat.

17:37So in that new cross section,

17:39you still will have catch basins within the curb

17:43and they will be slightly depressed,

17:46but just a little bit to help the water

17:49get to where they're supposed to go.

17:51And instead of the barrier of the curb,

17:54vehicles will be separated from the pedestrian space

17:57using ballards.

17:59This will allow us to have pedestrians

18:04cross the roadway wherever they need to.

18:07It's easier access for wheel transport

18:09to get from the parking area to the pedestrian area.

18:12And it just reduces the number of separations

18:16you feel within the space.

18:18So this design has already been implemented in Guelph.

18:21As you can see in the picture,

18:22Wilson Street is a very good example

18:26of what we're looking at.

18:27We're effectively from the face of the building

18:31all the way down into the road.

18:32There is not a barrier.

18:35So we are looking to implement that

18:37as our standard on Wyndham Street.

18:44So I've heard those basic motion

18:47of the accessibility advisory committee offer feedback

18:50and insight to help determine accessibility concerns

18:52related to the barrier free street design.

18:55And I'll open that up to the floor.

18:58Perfect, thank you so much.

19:00Elizabeth, I saw your hand up first.

19:02Go ahead.

19:03Yeah, I just have a question about the texture of the sidewalk

19:07in the sense of ice and slipperiness in the winter.

19:12So is there like a gradient or a roughness in the sidewalk

19:21to help with ice buildup?

19:24In the design we're proposing,

19:26there will be the two meter dedicated pedestrian clearway,

19:30your typical sidewalk,

19:32where it will be your usual white,

19:35concrete finished surface with the brush strokes

19:40to give it that textured finish.

19:42Outside of that, we're looking at having paving stones

19:47on both sides of the sidewalk.

19:48So there will be a tactile feel to the paving stones

19:54on either side of it,

19:54as well as a visual difference

19:56as we have the dark speckled pavers on the outside

20:00and a very clear white space down the middle.

20:03Okay, thank you.

20:09Oh, and sorry, there's a slight gradient as typical

20:13just to allow water to flow away.

20:17Sorry, there was a bit of lag on my end

20:19and I have a few little differences.

20:25I wanted to ask about tactile feedback

20:27for people who use canes,

20:29who blind and low vision folks who use canes

20:32need to know the difference when they're crossing.

20:37It looked like the example on Wilson Street,

20:38the edge of the sidewalk,

20:41like a good portion of the sidewalk as well

20:43as the parking spots have the same tactile

20:47kind of feedback there.

20:48And there's none of those like bump strips

20:50that people might expect.

20:52So I'm wondering if the blind and low vision community

20:54have been at all kind of,

20:57if there are any like checking with CNIB

21:00about what the standard should be

21:01for when creating an area like this,

21:05because I'm not an expert in that,

21:06but it was something that caught my eye.

21:09Yeah, at this point, we haven't engaged with CNIB on that.

21:12However, there was exploration of that undertaken

21:18in the past when Wilson Street was being built

21:21and I didn't capture it in that screen capture,

21:25but just to the south of that location,

21:28there are tactile plates all the way along the back

21:32of the curb to separate the pedestrian space from the road.

21:35And we are looking into the options available to us

21:39to provide that tactile separation

21:41between the parking lane and the pedestrian space

21:46because we are aware that there is the risk

21:50of someone low vision moving from the pedestrian space

21:54into the vehicle space without knowing.

21:56There will also be some amount of debate discussion

22:00into how close the ballards go together

22:02if the swing of the cane is likely to catch them

22:05or if you're like to walk between them.

22:09Okay, I know some people don't move their cane

22:11more than a couple inches.

22:12So, and then also I would urge the city to look

22:17into putting the tactile feedback

22:18all along the entirety, not just portions,

22:21because again, if you can't see at all,

22:24then you're not going to be able to see where there are

22:26or aren't, like, you kind of need

22:27that tactile feedback everywhere.

22:29So that was my only thought is that it looks pretty dangerous

22:31from that perspective.

22:37Does anyone else have any thoughts before we,

22:40or would anyone like to put forward a motion

22:42that maybe with the addition of tactile looking

22:45into options for tactile feedback

22:47for blind and low vision communities,

22:49with that addition, we would like to, you know,

22:54approve what we've seen or receive this information.

23:03And clerks can probably help make that a little bit neater.

23:06I see Elizabeth there.

23:07Are you going to attempt to move something?

23:10Yeah, I would just say that I agree with that suggestion

23:13and that we accept that.

23:18Can someone from City staff help us type something

23:20up to that effect?

23:21Yes, I'm working.

23:22I'll approve this.

23:23Okay, perfect, thank you, Winnie.

23:24Yeah, thank you.

23:25Thank you, Winnie, I appreciate it.

23:46Perfect.

23:47Would anybody like to move this motion?

23:50Is this the one that you would be comfortable

23:51with then, Elizabeth?

23:52Yeah, maybe because we're looking for a seconder.

23:54Okay, perfect.

23:55Would anyone like to second this motion?

23:58Oh, an order, perfect.

24:00And now is anyone opposed to this motion?

24:06I don't see or hear any so that motion passes.

24:09Thank you so much, everyone.

24:11And now we can move on to the second portion

24:13of this barrier-free street design piece

24:17where we're talking about accessible parking stalls

24:19on Wyndham Street.

24:20So is this Andrew again?

24:22Yep.

24:22Cool, go ahead, Andrew, thanks.

24:25I'm gonna take a nap as much of time as I can.

24:28We love to see it.

24:32All right, so again, on Wyndham Street North,

24:37through the detailed design process,

24:39we've gone through a fair bit of development

24:44of what our new cross section is gonna look like.

24:46We went through the Wyndham Environmental Assessment

24:49Project, which went through council in February of 2024

24:53where they landed on the preferred cross section

24:56of the roadway being one lane in each direction

24:58with parallel parking.

25:00And since then, we've been implementing that cross section

25:03and going through the details of where it works,

25:07where it doesn't work and sort of finding

25:10where the proper happy medium was on that design.

25:16So with that said, the current configuration

25:22of Wyndham Street has 53 total parking spaces,

25:26permanently available.

25:28This doesn't include the upper Wyndham

25:34pilot project for the angled street or angled parking.

25:38Sorry, I don't know why that got stuck in my head.

25:41But currently 53 permanent parking spaces

25:44with four accessible parking spaces designated.

25:47In the new design, because of how some of the parking

25:51that we've had to lose, the total parking spaces

25:53were reduced to 35 available spaces on Wyndham Street.

25:57And we designated three spaces accessible

26:01in our design so far.

26:04However, I do wanna include the caveat

26:06that using this barrier free street design

26:08in terms of geometry, any parking space

26:13could reasonably become an accessible parking space

26:16with the implementation of policy signage.

26:21So the downtown parking master plan

26:25did provide a recommendation

26:27on how much parking space is available

26:28and the three accessible spaces does meet that requirement

26:32as well as being a smaller reduction

26:35than the general parking space reduction.

26:37We are looking for your feedback

26:39on if that is not a quit number available.

26:43And we also want to provide a little bit of information

26:48that there's a curbside management strategy

26:50coming up through the transportation planning group

26:52through 2025, which will help inform the curbside uses

26:57in downtown, including accessible parking availability.

27:01So that was a lot of information.

27:04And if you had a chance,

27:07we did include the functional design plan

27:11as an attachment to the report to the committee,

27:13which shows the locations

27:15where the accessible parking spaces were.

27:18So moving on to the recommended motion,

27:23it says that the Accessibility Advisory Committee

27:26offers feedback and insight

27:28to help determine the appropriate number

27:29and placement of accessible parking spaces.

27:32I couldn't fit that onto the slides.

27:35I'm hoping everyone's seen where they were

27:37and can comment on if they're in the right location.

27:44Thank you so much.

27:45Does anyone have any comments or questions

27:49or like to put forward a motion?

28:01I don't see any, so I'm gonna take a step at it

28:03really briefly and just say this,

28:05especially on Wyndham Street,

28:07I'm somebody that does have an accessible parking pocket

28:10and I have never been able to find accessible parking

28:13on Wyndham, and granted,

28:15I only go downtown pretty much almost exclusively

28:18on weekends, but I'm there every weekend.

28:21And I've never been able to find an accessible spot.

28:24And so reducing it from four to three,

28:26even though that is like not a huge reduction

28:29compared to the overall parking space reduction,

28:33the overall parking space reduction,

28:35I would really rather it not impact

28:38accessible parking spaces at all,

28:39even though I understand we are like meeting

28:41the minimum requirement,

28:43it would be great if we could keep the four.

28:46But with that said, we can't have everything we ask for,

28:50but I just thought I would put that in there

28:53that it is very difficult to find

28:54accessible parking downtown,

28:56especially because a lot of the time,

28:58we're seeing people use accessible parking

29:00who shouldn't be, especially like Uber Eats drivers

29:04and things who are like, I'm just here for a second,

29:05but then another one pulls in right after.

29:08So it's very difficult for those of us who need the spots

29:10to access them.

29:16As a quick note on that,

29:18we are including loading zones now,

29:20so hopefully we'll push the Eats drivers toward that more so

29:23than the accessible parking,

29:24but also I'll take whatever's closest to where they're going.

29:29That's the thing, they often like just leave their car running

29:33and run in places and just want to park wherever's closest.

29:37I've literally had people tell me, I'll be really quick.

29:40So by the time you call bylaw, I won't be here anymore

29:43because I'm just picking up a delivery.

29:45So it's a big thing.

29:54Would anyone like to take a stab at a motion?

29:57Maybe saying that the Accessibility Advisory Committee

30:00recommends the maximum possible amount

30:02of accessible parking spaces on Windham Street,

30:06but that we receive.

30:09Yeah, exactly.

30:10Thank you so much for doing that.

30:11Is that Winnie?

30:12Thank you, Winnie.

30:17Would anyone like to, perfect, in order we'll move this?

30:21And would anyone like to second it?

30:23I will.

30:25Oh, was that Mike?

30:27Yep, that's me.

30:28Oh, I recognize your voice there.

30:29All right, thank you, Mike.

30:31Is anyone, oh, Deborah's hand is up,

30:33Deborah, did you want to chat about this?

30:35Yeah, I just wanted to be careful with the wording here

30:39that the Accessibility Advisory Committee suggested

30:42that the overall parking reduction, space reduction

30:45could not impact, but it's, I think the word is could impact.

30:54Do you see what I mean?

30:55There, that's it.

30:56Oh, right, that it could impact accessible,

30:58but that we would prefer we keep the number as four.

31:00Right, and we recommend

31:03that we keep the number as four.

31:07Can we add that?

31:08We recommend keeping the number as four, okay.

31:11Thanks.

31:13Thank you for catching that, Deborah, that's great.

31:16In order, do you still want to move that?

31:21Perfect, and Mike, are you still seconding?

31:25Yes.

31:27Lovely, all right, is anyone opposed?

31:36I don't see or hear any, so that one also passes.

31:39Thank you so much for coming today, Andrew.

31:41That was very informative.

31:48All right, next up on the agenda

31:50is the Park Trail and Open Space Manual.

31:53We have a five-minute staff presentation

31:55and then 10 minutes for AAC discussion.

31:58I think we have Matthew here.

32:01Hi, good afternoon.

32:02My name is Matthew Lane.

32:03I'm a park planner with Park and Trail Development.

32:07I am presenting the Draft Park and Trail

32:09and Open Space Manual.

32:11The purpose of the manual is to document

32:14our current processes and standards

32:16for developing parks, trails, and open spaces.

32:19It summarizes regulatory and policy context

32:22and references relevant documents throughout the manual.

32:26There are no changes to AAC consultation

32:30or AODA requirements proposed

32:32as a result of adopting the manual.

32:36And I've got a list of some sections of manual

32:40that have an accessibility focus.

32:43They include grading, site furniture,

32:45playground equipment, accessibility,

32:47and our standard drawings for Park and Trail

32:51and Open Space Construction.

32:54The draft motion that I'd like to present

32:58is that the AAC supports the city adopting

33:01the Draft Park and Trail and Open Space Manual

33:03as a guidance document

33:06to help the development community and city staff

33:08to build appropriate municipal parks

33:10within the city of Guelph.

33:12And I'll just open that up for discussion and for questions.

33:22All right. Does anyone have any discussion on this one?

33:43I don't see or hear any.

33:46I personally am not sure I understand

33:50the document thoroughly enough from the attached items

33:55to personally want to say that we approve it

34:00or that sorry that I approve it.

34:02But if anyone else would like to make a motion on this item.

34:21Deborah, I think your mic is open. Was that? Yeah. Go ahead.

34:25So I read it through fairly carefully

34:28and thought that it was reasonable

34:33where there were where accessibility was included.

34:37I don't know enough like you lower light

34:41to know where it might be absent and where it's missing.

34:45And so maybe we can receive it for information.

34:52Yeah. And that was kind of where I was at.

34:55The development staff and city staff,

34:57the development community and city staff

35:00to build a better and more accessible Guelph.

35:06That's kind of where I'm at is that I don't know

35:08that I understand the needs of the parks and trails

35:11thoroughly enough to be like, this is perfect.

35:13And fully covers every need.

35:16So would anyone maybe like to move

35:19that we receive this information? OK, we have Deborah.

35:25And then would anyone like to second that?

35:28And we'll get Winnie to actually I see Winnie typing.

35:34And it's OK. Pardon me.

35:39Winnie, you cut out for a second there. Oh.

35:43Yeah, that the AC receives the maybe Park Trail

35:47and open open space manual.

35:53I don't know if that and then Deborah,

36:05you had said something about and we are eager to continue

36:08to work with staff as they develop parks and trails

36:12and open spaces. OK, perfect.

36:16Accessible parks and trails and open spaces.

36:20Perfect. So Winnie, if you could add and are eager

36:23to continue to work with. Yes, perfect.

36:29Develop accessible parks, trails and open spaces.

36:33That would be perfect.

36:36Thank you so much.

36:37You. All right, and we have a Nordle second thing

36:42or did you have a comment and order a question?

36:45This was the second. Perfect.

36:48Is anyone opposed?

36:56All right, I don't see or hear any.

36:59So it looks like that's it.

37:00Thank you so much, Matthew.

37:02Great, thanks for your time.

37:04All right, Winnie, where are we at with

37:08that next item, the red top taxi?

37:10Yes, two guys, delegates are here.

37:14OK, I think we'll just move ahead with the item

37:17and hopefully the third also is here because we've got some time

37:20before we're going to get to that delegation.

37:24So that's perfect.

37:26We'll go ahead and start with this item.

37:29So the next item is the funding request by Red Top Taxi

37:32for vehicle accessibility modifications.

37:36There is some funding that we've talked about that we had set aside

37:39for the taxi script program and Red Top Taxi would like to access some of that money.

37:43So we have a five minute staff presentation

37:46and then we also have 15 minutes worth of delegations.

37:50Just for the delegates, I will be cutting you off at five minutes.

37:52I don't mean to be mean, but we really just don't have a ton of time

37:56in the agenda for this, so we do have to be pretty strict.

38:00So we'll start with the staff presentation.

38:03If that's all right, Leanne, you can go ahead.

38:06Yeah, thank you very much, Cherute.

38:08OK, so I'm just the first slide of the PowerPoint.

38:12I think Wendy's getting it up there.

38:14So funds collected approximately since 2018 is just over $280,000.

38:19And these funds were collected from the vehicle for a higher group

38:24that are not able to because of their structure,

38:26not able to provide accessible service.

38:29The municipality must consult with the Accessibility Advisory Committee

38:35under the AODA regarding taxis, accessible taxis within the municipality.

38:41But that's like that.

38:42It's the consultation that needs to happen.

38:45And then to have information in the multi-year accessibility plan.

38:50So by law requirements that, like I say, the vehicle for hire group

38:55must pay a fee to a general fund.

39:00And they've been doing that since 2018.

39:02That's how those funds have been collected of just over $280,000.

39:07And the there is a bylaw,

39:10vehicle for hire licensing category and grant program is what it's called.

39:14The funds are managed by the Accessibility Advisory Committee

39:17and are used to support accessibility modifications for vehicles,

39:21including taxi cabs is how it is written.

39:25So the motion that is recommended,

39:29and of course, AC, it's to your discretion to edit that will

39:35that they request from Red Top Taxi for $39,500 to modify one vehicle

39:41for wheelchair accessibility be approved.

39:44That's it for me.

39:47Oh, my gosh, that was two minutes. That was great.

39:50Again, you're so fast.

39:53All right, so we'll probably get that motion up again later

39:56to talk about it when we have our discussion.

39:58But let's move ahead with the delegates first.

40:01So we have Mohammed is Mohammed here.

40:05Mohammed. Perfect.

40:07You can go ahead and I'm going to have to cut you off at five minutes.

40:10I apologize. All right.

40:17My name is Mohammed and I'm here from Red Top Taxi.

40:21Wanted to talk about the Accessibility Taxi van.

40:24So right now we have six men.

40:28One is out of service because it's too old

40:31and that leave us with just five minutes in service

40:35to replace that van and make it accessible.

40:39We'll give them the cost is $97,187.

40:44Out of that, the conversion cost is $39,500.

40:50So and we handle around 1200 calls a month.

40:57So the average is 46 calls a day, 24,7.

41:02And the prices, which are two dollars

41:04first two dollars 60 cents per kilometer,

41:07which helps many people to afford that right as compared to the wider.

41:13They're charged one more than one hundred dollars

41:18from anywhere in town, even to the hospital.

41:23It's a very important service by the senior

41:26and people with the disability without many will struggle

41:29to get to the medical appointments and to move in on the city.

41:34That's why we are asking because we cannot afford it anymore.

41:39We used to buy the van.

41:41We will lease it out to the people and they would just

41:45you're not payable the five years, but we can't do it anymore.

41:49Since the conversion used to be 17,000, now it's 39,000.

41:54And the van price is double to we used to buy the old van.

41:58Like, OK, a couple of years old for 47 and 40,000 dollars.

42:02Right now is more than 60,000 dollars.

42:05So most of the bands, I mean, once it's done,

42:10they're not because we do not have the fund to replace them.

42:14Unlike in other cities in the city of Waterloo,

42:17the city helps the local taxi company with the 50 percent subsidizing the van.

42:23Plus, they also help with the subsidizing

42:28$10 per ride to attract more drivers to get into this business.

42:35They understand how important it is because for the city is so hard

42:40because this is a shuttle service.

42:42So very convenient and from door to from door to door.

42:49So I just wanted to, you know, emphasize how important it is.

42:52If I lose this fleet, it would be very hard for me to bring these people back.

42:59And, you know,

43:02to shape them again the way it is right now.

43:06You want to see?

43:08When I when I got in, I'm Christopher Wilson.

43:10When I got into the business of mobility, it was only

43:15about $59,000, $60,000 for the vehicle.

43:20Going up to like almost $100,000.

43:22It's it's not even feasible to run.

43:26Because you only have so much life.

43:27It you just never make your money back.

43:31I have a passion for this job.

43:32I love doing mobility and when it's just it's hard without without help.

43:40And my van is the one that's currently out of service.

43:43And it's got over 700,000 kilometers.

43:47So we run them for quite a while.

43:56OK, is that is that everything you do?

43:59Between the two of you, you do have ten minutes total

44:02if you're sharing your time.

44:03So if there's anything else, you've still got some time.

44:06But if not, we can move move along.

44:11Yeah, good.

44:13OK, thank you so much.

44:15I really appreciate that information.

44:18Leanne, the third delegate for this for this item.

44:23Do we have that delegate here still?

44:26Or do we have that delegate here yet?

44:28Oh, no, Deborah, she could not attend.

44:30She's out of town. OK.

44:32OK, OK, thank you.

44:34All right, so we have Deborah and then I have my hand as well.

44:38And then if anyone else has any questions, go ahead.

44:42Thank you for this.

44:44I'm curious how long a van.

44:48What's the life of a van?

44:50So if we modify it and it is being used

44:56with the number of trips per day that you're talking about,

45:00how long would it be with this van that was retrofitted be in use?

45:11Van, I have two mobility vans.

45:13The one I currently drive.

45:15I've had it for seven years now and it's still going strong.

45:20But it's at five hundred and fifty five thousand kilometers now.

45:25So you can probably get close to 10 years as long as they're taken care of.

45:31Great, thank you.

45:36Thanks so much.

45:38Mine isn't so much a question.

45:40I have some discussion on this.

45:42It's a really tough one for me, I think, because of the budget

45:46that we are talking about specifically.

45:48So this this budget is because there is a ride share program

45:51that doesn't have any accessible vehicles.

45:54And so when they asked to start doing business in Guelph,

45:57we said, how can we make things like how can we make that work?

46:02Because it doesn't make sense for you to not bring any accessible vehicles.

46:05And they've offered to give us a portion of their proceeds

46:07from their ride shares to us to use in this budget.

46:12And until now, we've always used this budget for the Taxi Script program.

46:15Maybe there have been other things we've used it for before.

46:17I was on the AAC.

46:19But as we're all aware, at our last AAC meeting,

46:23we spoke about the fact that the Taxi Script program right now

46:26is underutilized because people can't access it.

46:30I'm the chair of the Accessibility Advisory Committee

46:32and I can't access the Taxi Script program,

46:34even though I am a wheelchair user who only gets around the city in taxis.

46:38So I am very passionate about making sure we have enough accessible cabs.

46:43But I am more passionate about making sure that we can actually

46:46access this budget.

46:48And when this item was brought up in the planning meeting,

46:52I brought up my concerns that like, OK, but what about the fact

46:55that what this money is actually for?

46:57What we have agreed on the AAC that this money will be used for

47:00is to subsidize rides for disabled people.

47:04So to make it more affordable for disabled people to be able to even take a cab

47:07because currently disabled people are charged more to take a cab

47:11because the meter stays running while your chair is loaded and unloaded.

47:14People who use different there are there are different things

47:18that make the meter run for longer if you have a disability.

47:21So we have been using that money to run this program

47:24that is supposed to subsidize cab rides for disabled people.

47:29And if we aren't currently able to do that with our budget

47:33because the city is not yet on board with fixing that problem,

47:37that people can't access it.

47:38And again, in order to just as a recap of the last meeting,

47:41in order to be approved for the Taxi Script program,

47:44you currently have to be approved for the Mobility Transit Program,

47:47which has like a very, very, very, very, very exorbitantly long application.

47:51And you have to sign over the entirety of your medical records to be approved for it.

47:55Like it's not, in my opinion, ethical.

47:57I think it's an overreach by the city to try to access that much information

48:01from us in order for us to receive a service.

48:04So I asked in this meeting like, hey, it's been it's been two months

48:08since that meeting what changes have been made to the Taxi Script program

48:12or the Mobility Transit Program, and I was told still nothing.

48:16So I don't understand why we would, even though I do want there to be more

48:19accessible cabs, I don't understand why we would take a budget that is designed

48:24to that we have been using to subsidize transit costs for disabled people

48:29and instead give it to one private for profit company that's going to turn around

48:34and still charge us full price for our cab rides.

48:37Like it may in the future be a good idea to do this

48:41if we have extra in the budget, but I can't consider this to be extra

48:46in the budget right now when we are not currently allowing disabled people

48:49to access that budget for what it's intended for.

48:52So I would argue that until that is fixed, we can't approve any other

48:57uses of the budget until we can fix the fact that the budget isn't being used

49:00for what it's meant to be used for.

49:02And then there's also the question of like, how are we deciding which cab

49:07companies and which rides are programs like privately owned for profit companies?

49:11We are giving the money from this budget to that's a whole other discussion.

49:16Again, it was never my understanding that that budget was going to be used

49:19for private corporations that are going to turn around and charge

49:22disabled people full price for their services as much as it is an important

49:26thing for there to be cabs.

49:28And I do think it would be great if the city would at some at some point

49:32help out with this.

49:33I don't know that this is the budget we should be dipping into for it.

49:36Until that the initial purpose for that budget is addressed personally.

49:42Those are my thoughts.

49:44In order, I saw your hand up.

49:51I think you covered some of the points that I was going to make.

49:57OK, perfect.

49:58I did take some of it from the motion that you sent that I'm going to send

50:03through to Winnie from you.

50:05But Mike, go ahead with your hand is up next.

50:08Yeah, my question is I'd like an official answer from the city.

50:12Why isn't the city covering this?

50:13Why is this coming out of our budget?

50:15Because as you made excessively clear, there are many disabled people

50:20who cannot access this program.

50:22I am a frequent user of this program.

50:25I have made many wonderful friends from the mobility taxis.

50:29So I understand a lot of the problems, but this is something that the city

50:34can and should be doing.

50:35This should not be dipping into the budget that's meant to help people.

50:39There are other vanity projects that could be potentially taken

50:45a little bit of resource from because this is an important service

50:48that needs to be funded.

50:50I don't like the fact that we have to take it out of.

50:53We don't have to take away from vulnerable people to help vulnerable people.

50:58There are other items in the budget that can this can be taken from.

51:02So I'd like an answer from the city.

51:04Why are you not helping this directly?

51:08We've got Garrett.

51:09It looks like Garrett has an answer.

51:12Yeah. Thank you, Chair Root and through you to the AAC here.

51:17So I'll read the bylaw that was referenced in the report.

51:20That's bylaw 20272.

51:23And it reads that the issue of licenses shall ensure that all funds

51:26collected for accessibility under this schedule are provided monthly to the AAC

51:32to be used in a grant program for those needing accessibility

51:35modifications to their vehicles, including taxicabs.

51:39So this is a bylaw approved by council, providing that direction to the AAC

51:44to approve these types of applications for the funds that are collected within the schedule.

51:48Can I just sorry, I'm just going to get you back on track here.

51:51Mike wasn't asking about the bylaw that you're referencing.

51:54Mike was asking why there isn't another budget.

51:56So just if you could answer the question that Mike asked,

51:58I think we've all already read the budget, but we have been using this budget

52:02for the taxiscripts as well as also an approved use.

52:05So just if you could answer the question of why there isn't if you can't,

52:09that's also OK, but why the city isn't pulling from a budget other than ours.

52:15So the answer to that is council's direction to the budget.

52:17This is the process that they understood.

52:20All right.

52:21Jeanette.

52:23I just had a question to our delegates and I'm wondering what the rate is

52:29per kilometer for people who are disabled versus

52:34what is the regular rate?

52:39I believe it's the same rate when I was referencing the extra.

52:42It was not from a rate upcharge.

52:45It's two dollars and sixty cents per kilometer.

52:47So from here to hospital, probably five dollars.

52:51But my question is, is there a discounted

52:55kilometer rate for disabled people using it in an accessibility fashion

53:01versus those that are not disabled?

53:04No, there's a price is set by the by the city.

53:08Right. So we just it's the same price.

53:11Is that what you're saying?

53:13Yes, two dollars.

53:14It is.

53:16But, Jeanette, this taxiscript program aims to remedy that.

53:19So the taxiscript program is what we have been using this budget for.

53:24And then we are subsidizing people's taxier.

53:26And so if you're a disabled person who would have to sit with the meter

53:30running for longer, you could, if you could access the taxiscript program,

53:34get a discounted rate.

53:37So I think that's the confusion.

53:41Just to correct you, we do not charge when the meter is when

53:47we are waiting for the customer.

53:48It's only the meter start when the customer gets into the cab.

53:53That's the difference.

53:54Loading and unloading the wheelchair is what I'm referring to.

53:57So like when I show up, they start the meter as soon as I show up.

54:01And then they when they are unloading me, they stop the meter after they unload me.

54:06And that could be just an individual ad.

54:08But if you report it to the data, we will rectify its issue.

54:12So then I suppose it is starting the meter

54:15unless the customer is ready and the driver is.

54:22That's not what has ever been expressed to us

54:25when we've discussed the taxiscript program.

54:26So maybe there's more discussions we had between Red Top and the city on that

54:30in a in a future meeting.

54:34I think

54:37such net you already.

54:40Yeah, so we did have a motion from a Nordle

54:44that is kind of not a it's not a no, but a maybe a not right now

54:48motion from a Nordle about that we would like to see the taxiscript program

54:52issues addressed first so we can determine whether or not there is

54:56any extra in the budget for something like this.

55:00And I would also urge Red Top to pressure the city to hurry up

55:03and fix the taxiscript program so that you can come back and we can maybe approve this

55:07because I don't see it being an issue in the future

55:10if we do still have money in this budget after the taxiscript program is fixed.

55:14It's just a problem of right now people can't access the taxiscript program.

55:18So the I emailed it through to Winnie this motion.

55:24And we'll see if people want to vote on it.

55:29I can read it out though, Winnie, if you'd like.

55:32Yeah, I'm not yet received. Sorry about that.

55:34OK, that's OK.

55:35I'll just read it for now.

55:37The motion from a Nordle reads the Accessibility Advisory Committee

55:40does not support the request from Red Top Taxi to use these funds

55:44intended for the taxiscript program to purchase or modify an accessible taxi

55:48at this time.

55:50This budget is meant to subsidize transportation access for disabled

55:53residents, not fund capital costs for a private for profit company

55:57that will charge full fare to disabled community members for those services.

56:01The AC has already called for a review of the taxiscript

56:04and mobility transit application process due to significant barriers

56:08accessing both programs.

56:10And until those issues are resolved, we do not believe it is appropriate

56:13to consider new funding requests related to this budget.

56:17So again, essentially what a Nordle is saying with this is not no,

56:21but not right now until the city fixes these other issues that we've asked

56:25to be fixed for a number of months now.

56:30You had a couple of meetings with the city official.

56:34That was just on was part of the meeting.

56:37Godfrey was part of the meeting.

56:38And we were told that these funds are available for modification.

56:43And I'm so sorry.

56:45I know, but it does have to get approved by the AC and we're actually

56:49you've gone over like over the point of your delegation now.

56:53So we're going to have to keep moving now that a motion has been floored.

56:57It's the AC.

56:58We're going to just discuss it and we'll let you know.

57:00So would anyone like to second this motion?

57:03I'm so sorry, Mohammed, I understand where you're coming from.

57:06And it is a possible use of the of the.

57:10Yeah.

57:15Would anyone like to second the motion by a Nordle?

57:23Sorry, just procedurally.

57:24I'm so sorry, Mohammed, not to cut you off.

57:27Go ahead, Elizabeth.

57:28Is that a question or are you seconding?

57:30I can ding.

57:32OK.

57:34Is anyone opposed to this motion?

57:48I don't see or hear anyone opposed.

57:52So it looks like that motion passes unanimously.

57:57So I'm not sure where that leaves things between Red Top and the city.

58:02But Leanne, can you follow up?

58:06Yeah, thank you.

58:09All right. Where are we for time?

58:11It's four. OK.

58:13The next item on the agenda is

58:18three point five protected intersection at College and Gordon.

58:22We have Benita van Milton Berg, project manager.

58:33Hi, everyone.

58:35Can you see and hear me OK?

58:38Yeah. Yes.

58:39Go ahead, Benita. OK, perfect.

58:42I'm guessing that the motion will be on the screen shortly.

58:45But essentially, I'm just here as a follow up from previous presentations

58:51where we've discussed the protected intersection at College Street

58:55and Edinburgh Road.

58:56And that project has been completed.

58:59So I've worked with and delegated to the AAC a couple times for that project.

59:04And we are now moving forward, preparing for construction

59:08for the next phase of work in that same project.

59:12So this is to continue the protected cycle tracks on College Avenue.

59:17And we're coming up to the intersection at College Avenue in Gordon Street

59:22and looking to apply the same design principles

59:25to create a protected intersection at this location

59:27as we've applied at College and Edinburgh Road.

59:30So I had been here earlier this year, I think in February,

59:34or at least a representative from our team was here.

59:37I think you may have heard from Paul Hutchinson in that case

59:39to just sort of let you know that we're looking at or that at that time

59:44we're in the design phase for this intersection.

59:47And so I'm here to ask for your support in moving forward,

59:51designing the College and Gordon intersection

59:54with the same design principles of a protected intersection

59:57as we have at College and Edinburgh and as well to just take any feedback

1:00:01as needed for this project. Go ahead, Deborah.

1:00:10As a frequent user of this intersection with my bike,

1:00:16I continue to be concerned about right hand turns from Gordon on to College.

1:00:25It's frequently a place where people go outside of the posted hours.

1:00:32How will this help?

1:00:35Because really it's people disobeying the laws.

1:00:38And I just don't understand.

1:00:40I think this is a great idea, but I don't think it's going to help the basic problem,

1:00:44which is a lack of safety for pedestrians and anybody crossing the street

1:00:48from people that are going against the stated limitations of right turns.

1:00:56For sure. Thank you for that input.

1:00:59So the protected intersection at College and Edinburgh

1:01:02has a no right turn on red restriction at all hours.

1:01:05That's part of the design for protected intersections.

1:01:08So my understanding from the traffic engineering team

1:01:11is that we would apply the same no right turn on red restriction

1:01:1424 hours a day at College and Gordon.

1:01:17So there's only so much we can do to physically prevent

1:01:24a person from turning right on a red light.

1:01:27But I know that police were actually out at College and Edinburgh

1:01:32sort of blitzing people not too long ago for turning right

1:01:35on the red there. So we would expect to see that sort of enforcement happening

1:01:39if we were having issues at College and Gordon.

1:01:41But my understanding is that College and Gordon will also receive

1:01:44the same right turn on red restriction.

1:01:49As long as there is early monitoring and enforcement,

1:01:53it might change people's patterns and I hope it does.

1:01:57But really, I feel like I take my life in my hands every time I cross that intersection.

1:02:01So I'm grateful for whatever support to make it safer.

1:02:06OK, great. Thank you for those thoughts.

1:02:08I'll make a note around the user experience in need

1:02:12for early monitoring and enforcement there.

1:02:20Thanks for that, Deborah.

1:02:22Does anyone else have any questions or feedback?

1:02:37I have to admit, I don't use that intersection often enough to know much.

1:02:41Benita, I'm sorry, I can't be of help.

1:02:42But I think that what Deborah offered there is pretty valuable.

1:02:45So Deborah, would you be comfortable moving what is on the screen,

1:02:49maybe with an adaptation of what you've just said?

1:02:54Yes, if we can, that the recommend proceeding with minor adjustments is needed.

1:03:00Well, OK, so and ensuring.

1:03:06I would like it to be explicit that it's 24 hour

1:03:11no right turns in the motion and that there's

1:03:16early and ongoing monitoring by law enforcement.

1:03:23So then, yes, I'm happy to to whatever it.

1:03:27Move it. You're on mute.

1:03:46I would. Yeah, that's right.

1:03:47Thank you. I just figured that it's a slow day today.

1:03:51I didn't sleep much last night.

1:03:53I was going to say take out in the motion, Winnie.

1:03:57It can just say ensuring it's 24 hour.

1:04:02Ensuring there is a 24 hour ban on right turns.

1:04:06And that there is early and ongoing monitoring by law enforcement.

1:04:11That would be perfect. Yeah, that's perfect, I think.

1:04:14Just if I can.

1:04:16Oh, yeah, I just wanted to amend it because we're actually saying I liked what

1:04:20Brenda or Deborah, you said, which was early and ongoing monitoring and enforcement

1:04:27because monitoring and enforcement are two different things.

1:04:32Is that OK, Deborah?

1:04:35Yeah, that's fine.

1:04:37Monitoring and enforcement by law enforcement.

1:04:40Right on. Thank you. Perfect.

1:04:42And then, Benita, sorry, you had something. Go ahead.

1:04:45No worries. Yeah, this is also just a little wordy piece for editing.

1:04:49But it's 24 hour no right turn on red

1:04:52because right turns will still be permitted at this intersection.

1:04:56Right.

1:04:56It's not the right turn on red.

1:04:58I can't go down.

1:04:59I don't remember the ban on anybody turning.

1:05:02I could run some modeling.

1:05:04Three laps every time.

1:05:07Oh, man.

1:05:09I told you I didn't sleep much.

1:05:12No, that's OK.

1:05:13Sometimes it takes a village.

1:05:14And in terms of your comment,

1:05:16Cher root that you were that you aren't out at that intersection

1:05:19often, my inbox is always open.

1:05:21So if ever anyone is out there and maybe it's the first time you've gone through,

1:05:25maybe it's the 10th time you've gone through, if you have feedback,

1:05:28I'm always happy to hear it.

1:05:29This isn't the only avenue for me to collect that feedback.

1:05:32So we are always listening to residents on regular days as well.

1:05:39Thank you, Benina.

1:05:40We really appreciate you.

1:05:42So Deborah is moving this.

1:05:44Would anyone like to second it?

1:05:49An order.

1:05:49Perfect.

1:05:49Thank you so much.

1:05:50And is anyone opposed seeing and hearing none again?

1:05:59Another unanimous motion.

1:06:00Thank you so much, everyone.

1:06:01And thank you, Benina, for your time.

1:06:03We always appreciate seeing you here.

1:06:05Sure. Thanks so much, everyone.

1:06:07Thanks.

1:06:12I've lost my spot.

1:06:14There we go.

1:06:16So we're to item 3.6, the city way fighting, the way city way finding strategy.

1:06:25Sorry, that was coming through really that word.

1:06:28My screen reader doesn't like that word.

1:06:31The city wide way finding strategy.

1:06:32We have a five minute staff presentation and then 10 minutes for a discussion.

1:06:36We have Alex here, the manager of tourism and destination development.

1:06:42Is Alex here already?

1:06:43Oh, sorry.

1:06:44Yes, she is.

1:06:45Yeah, go.

1:06:45Sorry. Thank you, chair.

1:06:46Good.

1:06:47Go ahead.

1:06:50OK, thanks, Joey.

1:06:57Just just to start us off.

1:06:58So I wanted to emphasize that we are working on this way finding strategy

1:07:03to help residents and visitors find their way around wealth.

1:07:06So way finding is the implementation of signs and other navigational tools

1:07:10to help people find their way.

1:07:12So this is the umbrella initiative of way finding for Guelph.

1:07:16The outcomes of this strategy will inform any sign projects across departments

1:07:21that help people find their way around.

1:07:22So this, although I'm the manager of tourism, this isn't just a tourism strategy.

1:07:26And just wanted to highlight the key goals of the project here,

1:07:29really being that user friendly system of signs and tools and prioritizing

1:07:34information access that's inclusive and accessible and for this engagement.

1:07:41But I do want to be clear that this strategy will not install signs

1:07:46or create routes, but create a design manual for all departments to use

1:07:51so that you know you're in Guelph when you're here

1:07:54and that you know that you can get the right info at the right time

1:07:56and in the right place, no matter your mode of travel or your destination.

1:08:00So that's the intention of this slide.

1:08:03So we're in the engagement phase of this project.

1:08:05And as you may be saw in our report, our consultant partners,

1:08:09Cygnus Design Group have completed a background review in audit Guelph.

1:08:13And we have a lot of work to do, not just in meeting our accessibility standards,

1:08:16but in increasing way finding, particularly for pedestrians,

1:08:21which are being considered in the future strategy.

1:08:25And so now we're in this engagement phase, which will largely inform the two

1:08:29outcomes that are creating a user friendly system of signs and tools

1:08:33and then prioritizing that inclusive and equitable information access.

1:08:37So we're asking people how we can do better.

1:08:40And before we get to the questions, I just I want to say that there are other

1:08:44methods of engagement that we're doing.

1:08:45So we're doing workshops, we're doing public engagement.

1:08:49And there will be a asynchronous survey that launches next Wednesday

1:08:52that will be promoting pretty heavily over the rest of this month and into May.

1:08:58And then once we're done this phase of engagement, we will be engaging again

1:09:03once we have signs that we have designed and can test in a prototype format.

1:09:09So people can actually engage with potential sign designs and we can do that.

1:09:15And then we're hoping that you'll have us back by the before we go to council

1:09:20in winter of twenty five twenty six.

1:09:25So I'll just maybe ask Joey to flip through these questions

1:09:29before we get into the actual conversation.

1:09:33But I do have five questions.

1:09:36So we're just looking for your experience with information tools that you most often use.

1:09:40Examples might include maps, landmarks, phone apps, signs.

1:09:44How do you really how do you get around?

1:09:47And we're also interested in knowing about great experience with navigating,

1:09:51particularly in unfamiliar areas, but also

1:09:56challenges or barriers in navigating.

1:09:59And just because, again, we're not designing roots with this strategy,

1:10:04it's not necessarily if the space is paved or unpaved or those kinds of obstacles,

1:10:10but challenges that have arisen out of a lack of information

1:10:14about how to get somewhere or what amenities are close by.

1:10:17And then I'll just have you flip to the next slide before.

1:10:21And then what information is really important for you to be included,

1:10:26to be included in a science system?

1:10:28And this could be nearby destinations, how long to a destination,

1:10:33whether there's inclines or types of terrain,

1:10:36symbols that are that really resonate with the community.

1:10:40And then are there any amenities that should be prioritized in a science system?

1:10:44And examples, you know, could include but are definitely not limited to

1:10:49public washrooms, information centers or parking.

1:10:53And then the last slide is just the recommendations that we kind of

1:10:57have for you folks to consider, but happy to have you to add more.

1:11:10Does anyone have any answer to any of those questions?

1:11:15Maybe we could do that.

1:11:16I have a couple.

1:11:18It's always me with so many things.

1:11:22But if anyone else does, I'll yield to other people first.

1:11:30All right, maybe while people are percolating on those questions,

1:11:33I will just give my feedback.

1:11:36One of the questions was about what apps we use to get around

1:11:39and what what what ways we're using to get around.

1:11:42And then another one of the questions I think question for was about

1:11:46what more information would we like?

1:11:48And I'm probably not the only person who's going to say this in here, knowing the crowd.

1:11:52But a lot of us are

1:11:56sometimes the the main reason that I'm getting out and actually walking around

1:12:00and doing stuff is either because I want to go geocaching or I want to play Pokemon Go.

1:12:06And so if you've noticed, there's an area that's really, really heavy in traffic

1:12:10for Pokemon Go, for example.

1:12:13I don't know if you guys would know that or not.

1:12:14But it might be interesting for you to ask some people who play a lot of Pokemon Go

1:12:18because often those of us who have disabilities and are trying to play Pokemon Go,

1:12:23we have no information about those areas because the Pokemon map is like not a detailed map at all.

1:12:28It's got like Pokemon all over it and gyms and stuff.

1:12:31It's not a real it doesn't tell us anything about what the area is actually like to get around.

1:12:36So especially as someone who often is using a wheelchair to to go out and experience

1:12:41anywhere with trails or anything like that through the lens of geocaching or Pokemon,

1:12:47often there's no information and we can look it up online and try to Google and figure out from

1:12:53like current way finding information we can find from the Guelph website.

1:12:57And a lot of these areas don't have it.

1:13:00So like if there is an area that you notice a

1:13:03vast amount of people gather on Pokemon Go community days or something,

1:13:07that might be an area where people would be interested in more information about

1:13:12kind of some of the accessibility of the area.

1:13:16Yeah, that's a really interesting point.

1:13:18That's so great. OK, thanks.

1:13:20It has like there's in Riverside Park, for example,

1:13:23that's a really common place for people to go and play Pokemon Go.

1:13:26But there are some areas where there are a ton of gyms that you have to walk

1:13:28way out into the middle of a field for.

1:13:30And we wouldn't know by Googling that unless we try and use like

1:13:34but if it's not near a road, there's often not Google

1:13:38Street View for us to be able to look and see where that stuff is.

1:13:42So letting people know that this is just a field.

1:13:45There's no way to get out here would be helpful, I think.

1:13:52So I guess, yeah, not just letting people know where there are pathways and are accessible routes,

1:13:57but also specifically letting people know this section of the park is not accessible

1:14:02is information that I think is often lacking.

1:14:04We get to see where things are accessible,

1:14:06but if something isn't accessible for sure, that would be good to know too.

1:14:11I see a Nordle and then Mike, go ahead and Nordle.

1:14:17So when traveling recently to explore areas in that,

1:14:23the primary thing I was using was just Google Maps and the Street View

1:14:28to scout things out ahead of time.

1:14:31And then using that to look at the individual locations

1:14:35so I could get a feel for things.

1:14:39One thing I was wondering if you're creating a plane to encourage more

1:14:44foot traffic, have you talked to the other departments in the city about

1:14:50trying to improve sidewalk maintenance, particularly during winter?

1:14:55Because I know with the crazy fluctuations in climate lately,

1:15:03there are times where things get missed and the sidewalk conditions,

1:15:07quite frankly, become too dangerous for me to be going out in.

1:15:11Yeah, so this strategy is there is like a lot of cross-departmental

1:15:20collaboration because it's going to impact so many departments.

1:15:23So one such department would be Public Works who facilitates

1:15:28sidewalk clearing and those kinds of things.

1:15:30So absolutely. Although this strategy will not address

1:15:35the pace or the amount at which the sidewalk is cleared,

1:15:39maybe there is some conversation that we can have internally about how we

1:15:43communicate where information can be sought about how recently

1:15:47something was cleared, that sort of thing.

1:15:50But maybe we can find ways to better communicate that through the way

1:15:53finding system, if that makes sense.

1:15:56Awesome. Thank you so much. Mike, go ahead.

1:15:59I was just wondering, is there anybody who is dedicated to updating

1:16:09things like Google Maps?

1:16:11I know there are apps that are dedicated to the disability community

1:16:16that show, hey, this area is accessible. Here are pictures.

1:16:19Is there anybody on social media that's not available?

1:16:22Here are pictures. Is there anybody on city staff whose job is

1:16:27dedicated to keeping these things updated?

1:16:31Alliance.

1:16:34OK, so through you, Chair Root.

1:16:38Kayla is working with the Guelph Barrier Free Committee and Access Now

1:16:43is one of those apps that we are working with the committee to

1:16:48launch something during National Accessibility Week and then to have

1:16:52a couple of blitzes this year of marking up that type of thing.

1:16:55So when you're talking about even the Pokemon Go stuff,

1:16:59like trails are now included with the Access Now app

1:17:04because of the TransCanada Trail.

1:17:06And so just branching out and they are also

1:17:12which is really an advancement on SOF.

1:17:20And yeah, any questions on that?

1:17:27We're committed to getting stuff going there.

1:17:30We'll actually be asking these in some point if they want to help us also

1:17:34populate the Access Now app.

1:17:36But we're going to ask anybody who can.

1:17:38Yeah, we've like reinvigorated the relationship with Access Now,

1:17:41so hoping to get some of that.

1:17:43Yeah. Awesome. That's really interesting.

1:17:49Thank you so much, Leanne and Kayla.

1:17:53I'd love to see when Access Now first came out,

1:17:55I remember looking at it and being like, this would be awesome

1:17:57if it had anything in it.

1:17:59And so it's been great to get a little more filled out.

1:18:02And it'll be awesome to keep seeing that. That's good.

1:18:08All right. Does anyone have anything else on this item

1:18:10or would anyone like to take a stab at a motion?

1:18:18For Elizabeth?

1:18:20Elizabeth has to do that.

1:18:21Sorry, Elizabeth, go ahead.

1:18:22Sorry, I didn't see that.

1:18:24That's OK.

1:18:24Yeah, my I have a reflection related to this issue

1:18:28that's kind of old school.

1:18:30So I use Facebook a lot still,

1:18:34not like Instagram and other things.

1:18:36But recently I saw an event that was really interesting to me.

1:18:41It was the Arab Festival that happened this weekend.

1:18:44And I was really intrigued by that and decided to go.

1:18:51And the information was pretty much this is where it is.

1:18:55And then you'd have to look up the actual place.

1:18:58And then it was a school.

1:18:59So it was accessible.

1:19:01But when you get there, there's absolutely nowhere to sit.

1:19:04There's no chairs.

1:19:05There was no place for me to sit.

1:19:06I just stand for an hour, which is unbearable for me.

1:19:10And that, to me, was an issue.

1:19:14But I mean, I was happy for them.

1:19:15They had lots of numbers and it was crowded and it was very fun and lively.

1:19:21So, I mean, in addition to all of the great stuff that happens in Guelph,

1:19:26you know, there's so many groups and agencies

1:19:29and people that put on events that are open to the public

1:19:33that don't consider accessibility as much as they should.

1:19:38And don't, you know, like they I don't know if they have a list of things

1:19:43that they need to check off when they organize an event or if anyone coordinates

1:19:47like festivals and activities in the city to give them a kind of a planning guide

1:19:53for the things that they should be thinking about to make it more accessible

1:19:57for people with disabilities.

1:19:59But I think that's another aspect of this whole thing about, you know,

1:20:03making events accessible and pleasant for people,

1:20:07not just to get there, but to be there and to stay there.

1:20:12So that was just I just wanted to mention that.

1:20:17But I just ask.

1:20:19Can I ask a clarifying question?

1:20:21Elizabeth.

1:20:22So was this was this event held at a city facility

1:20:27or was it held at a private facility?

1:20:29It was held at a school like a high school.

1:20:32OK, so it's a public facility, but I don't know if I don't think it's a city facility, per se.

1:20:39No, it's not a city facility, but but but that really triggered, you know,

1:20:44or that really helped me understand, you know, seating information

1:20:48and like where seating is available, perhaps like in a public park

1:20:53or in a city facility is great information to include, perhaps on signage.

1:20:58But I can definitely take your feedback on accessible events and

1:21:02and encouraging, you know, more accessible considerations

1:21:06like to our colleagues who help facilitate those events.

1:21:11But when it comes to public letter, when it comes to schools,

1:21:15we don't facilitate like those spaces necessarily.

1:21:18But but but that's great feedback.

1:21:21Thank you.

1:21:23So right.

1:21:25Would anyone like to take a crack at it?

1:21:26Oh, sorry, Leanne, go ahead.

1:21:28And I see that Mike has his hand up, too.

1:21:30But I just want to just jump in with another barrier free initiative and,

1:21:36you know, I'm sorry.

1:21:38Oh, is it OK?

1:21:39OK, OK.

1:21:40Accessible events and getting information out there, even on non city facility.

1:21:45Just trying to just trying to really do a bit of a blitz on that as well

1:21:49and getting some information out there.

1:21:51So that as well.

1:21:53So, yeah, we're hearing you.

1:21:59Would anyone like to take a crack at a motion,

1:22:02even just a motion to receive this information?

1:22:21There are a couple of motions up on the screen

1:22:24that are pretty generic, just motion to receive and ask that we continue

1:22:29this conversation.

1:22:32Jeanette, are you moving?

1:22:34Yes. Perfect.

1:22:37And do I have a seconder?

1:22:48Nobody seconding.

1:22:49Would anyone like to second these motions?

1:22:51Oh, in order.

1:22:53I'm like, they're not that.

1:22:56Sorry, I lost my mouse on the other computer screen.

1:22:59That's OK.

1:23:00It's the end of the meeting.

1:23:02All right.

1:23:03So we have the motion and the seconder.

1:23:06Is anyone opposed to these two motions?

1:23:12I guess we're moving them as one motion, really.

1:23:19All right.

1:23:20I don't see and hear any.

1:23:22So that motion is approved or both of those motions are approved.

1:23:28Thank you so much.

1:23:35All right.

1:23:35I think the final item now is just me.

1:23:39Three point seven.

1:23:41I don't know why it says follow up on a membership.

1:23:43It's like a follow up on some of our motions.

1:23:45Just closing the loop on things.

1:23:49Did I miss anything, though?

1:23:50Because, Leanne, I've got my with all the jumble at the beginning

1:23:54with my screen reader.

1:23:55I want to make sure I'm not missing any items before I move in.

1:23:58No, you have not missed any items.

1:23:59This this is your rate on track.

1:24:01Yeah. OK. All right.

1:24:03Perfect. All right.

1:24:05So this item is really just me kind of wanting to take a moment

1:24:10to make sure that we're being really transparent about where we're at

1:24:14with a few of the motions that we've passed, specifically some of the motions

1:24:19from the meeting in November or sorry, October of last year.

1:24:23That was the meeting where we discussed a lot about our governance

1:24:26and wanting to have a say in kind of our membership as well as we discussed

1:24:32a lot about the public space use bylaw.

1:24:34And there were two recent council meetings where those things were discussed.

1:24:39And it led me to want to bring that up here today.

1:24:42So we didn't initially have any time for a discussion.

1:24:45It was just going to be a quick five minute thing for me.

1:24:48But there may be time for discussion now.

1:24:49We'll see how this goes.

1:24:51So basically in October, we asked for a few things at the AC meeting.

1:24:57One of those things was that we asked for more involvement in our governance.

1:25:01And this was partially in an effort to just have a more well rounded

1:25:04accessibility advisory advisory committee.

1:25:07But it was also an effort to kind of protect our members from feeling

1:25:12like we need to be silenced if there's any situation where we don't agree

1:25:16with city staff on something or when we're advocating for it to be

1:25:20for a change that the city doesn't agree with.

1:25:24And out of recent council meeting, staff did not recommend this to council

1:25:28and instead pushed for changes that I believe can limit our engagement

1:25:32a little further.

1:25:33And I don't mean to call out any particular staff members or anything like that.

1:25:37But as a result of that discussion, a motion that was put forward by

1:25:42councillor Kate and reflecting our requests from the October meeting,

1:25:47including a request to even just make recommendations about AAC appointments

1:25:51about who should be on the committee.

1:25:52We don't even have to be in the meeting.

1:25:54We'd just like to recommend it was all voted down.

1:25:58Myself and Mike were there to speak to the items and answer questions.

1:26:03And though we were not granted those.

1:26:05So we at the AC, I think put a lot of time and effort and fought very hard

1:26:10for a seat at that table.

1:26:12And so I thought it was worth kind of circling back and letting people know

1:26:15that not only did we not get granted a seat at that table,

1:26:18but we are not even being permitted to sit outside the room the table is in

1:26:23and just slip a note with our suggestions on it under the door.

1:26:27And that's frustrating.

1:26:28And so I don't mean any disrespect, but I just I did want to discuss that

1:26:32and make sure everyone was aware because I know not everyone watches the council

1:26:35meetings. Another thing that happened

1:26:39at that meeting in October was that we talked about the public space use bylaw.

1:26:43And again, I'm not going to get into that all over again,

1:26:46because we've been through that since February of last year.

1:26:49But as a quick overview at various points in 2024,

1:26:53we asked to be consulted on the public space use bylaw because it's so heavily

1:26:57impacts the way that the disabled community is allowed to use public spaces in wealth.

1:27:03And we were promised that we would be given some sort of engagement from the city.

1:27:07We were explicitly promised that that would happen before the item went to council,

1:27:10but we didn't get that engagement.

1:27:12And I know we've already been over that.

1:27:15But then at a recent council meeting,

1:27:18I was very surprised to see the public space use bylaw come up again.

1:27:22And in watching that council meeting,

1:27:24I saw that staff and the mayor both told council, excuse me,

1:27:29both told council that we had been consulted on the public space use bylaw.

1:27:34And that's inaccurate.

1:27:35I think we all know here that we have begged to be consulted.

1:27:38We've been begging for engagement on the public space use bylaw.

1:27:42We have been promised engagement on the public space use bylaw,

1:27:45and we have repeatedly been denied any engagement on the public space use bylaw.

1:27:49And so I, again, I don't mean any disrespect and I don't mean to call anyone out directly,

1:27:54but the fact that the council then using that information

1:27:59did vote to expand the public space use bylaw,

1:28:03that to me feels unfair, that feels wrong,

1:28:06and it feels like we're not being represented.

1:28:08So I'm frustrated.

1:28:14I think you can probably hear that.

1:28:16I've been sitting on the AAC for a long time,

1:28:19and most of that time I've been either the chair or vice chair,

1:28:22so I've had a chance to work pretty closely with the city.

1:28:25And I personally have learned a lot in that time.

1:28:28And one of the things I've unfortunately learned is that sometimes when the AAC asks to be heard,

1:28:34we're just kind of handed a microphone that's not actually hooked up to anything.

1:28:38And these are examples of that.

1:28:41There are other examples.

1:28:42I often struggle to get enough time on the agenda for AAC members to discuss things.

1:28:47I feel like I have to fight very hard for the 20 seconds to a minute that each of us gets out of the agenda time

1:28:54when staff members, one individual staff member is always given at least five minutes,

1:28:58if not sometimes 20 minutes or more.

1:29:02The city even, you saw it in this meeting,

1:29:03the city will write recommended motions that they want our committee to pass

1:29:07in advance of our chance to discuss things,

1:29:09which I believe sometimes undermines our ability to make independent recommendations.

1:29:13And we should be allowed to reflect our own thoughts as disabled people

1:29:18and not have our voices erased in favor of the city's voice.

1:29:22So currently there are a lot of problems.

1:29:24And I just wanted to be transparent and talk about that.

1:29:28And again, I am apologizing.

1:29:30It just comes across as disrespectful in any way.

1:29:31I don't mean it that way.

1:29:33I would just really like to request that the city of Guelph massively overhaul the way it interacts with the AAC.

1:29:40Because as it stands, we're being met with roadblocks that serve only to protect the city's bottom line as a business

1:29:46and not the community of disabled people that live here.

1:29:49It's been my experience that if you advocate too loudly or too hard,

1:29:52you are probably going to be pulled into a private meeting and silenced.

1:29:58Or reminded that you serve on this committee at the pleasure of staff and council

1:30:02and that you need to behave accordingly.

1:30:06So that has left me with the impression that accessibility is an afterthought at best

1:30:11and a new sense at worst to the city very often.

1:30:15It wasn't initially my intention to go this route, but after I wrote all of this out,

1:30:18I realized that the energy I've poured into this committee is being wasted

1:30:22on a system that was never built for us and a system that seems to be designed

1:30:26to create the illusion of engagement rather than the reality of it.

1:30:29So again, with no disrespect, but in protest of the way that the AAC has been engaged with by the city of Guelph,

1:30:36I'm stepping down from this committee effective immediately and will not be seeking reappointment.

1:30:41And I hope that change comes.

1:30:42So I'll pass over the rest of the meeting to Inortal, who's the vice chair,

1:30:45or I guess now the chair.

1:30:47Thanks, everyone.

1:31:01OK. So thank you for that.

1:31:06I agree with everything that Laura Lise said.

1:31:10There's more issues as well that I've experienced behind the scenes as an autistic person,

1:31:18as with anywhere in society.

1:31:22The person with autism is expected to handle all of the responsibility

1:31:27for interpretation of the information presented to them,

1:31:32as well as the responsibility for ensuring that whatever they're trying

1:31:36to communicate is understood by the elastic people in the room.

1:31:41And it is getting exhausting for the amount of work that we're putting in

1:31:47just to have it disregarded.

1:31:50So I will be resigning in protest as well.

1:31:59To follow up to Inortal's point, I have spoken and delegated to council.

1:32:05I was at that meeting with Lorelei asking for a voice to build relationships

1:32:10and bridges in our community, even using some of my indigenous

1:32:15teachings to work with people to help bridge communities together.

1:32:21I asked for a voice and that voice was denied.

1:32:25And that goes against the antithesis of everything I've ever been taught.

1:32:29And I've even reached out to media to try and raise a voice for the Guelph disability community.

1:32:36And some listen.

1:32:39And it does not seem like the city wants to listen.

1:32:42So much like Inortal and Lorelei, I also resign effective immediately in protest.

1:32:54I've had it's Deborah and I've had my hand up for a bit,

1:32:58partially because I think the timing of the recent changes

1:33:03to the advisory committee structure, which in effect

1:33:08makes us all resign effective immediately

1:33:13and a whole new AAC will be created for the next meeting

1:33:19is a really, really unfortunate and an unwise move on the city's part.

1:33:25I think you can hear the frustration and I support Lorelei, Inortal, Mike in their work.

1:33:33I also will not be running again for the AAC.

1:33:37While I have appreciated learning much more about the city,

1:33:41I have found it to be a very frustrating experience, repeating many of the things.

1:33:47There are some great people like who who listen carefully and some good staff people who work.

1:33:54And then there are times when we revisit the same item that we've visited.

1:33:59I've been on for seven years now and I've seen the same discussions

1:34:04reiterated again and again and again.

1:34:06And I'm deeply concerned that getting activists

1:34:12at the table has resulted in a shutdown, basically.

1:34:17So I'm concerned about this process and I think it's really, really unfortunate

1:34:21that we've all been resigned effective immediately.

1:34:26Thank you.

1:34:40Would the clerk's office please provide some guidance on procedure?

1:34:46Boris?

1:34:49Yeah, happy to help, Leigh Ann.

1:34:51If there is no chair or vice chair available,

1:34:55we would look to the membership to vote on somebody who can continue chairing.

1:35:02If there is no vote on that, then we would automatically adjourn.

1:35:13So, Karen, sorry, just to be clear, you're asking if there is anyone that is on the AAC

1:35:19who hasn't resigned that would step in as chair at this moment.

1:35:24Correct.

1:35:25The AAC terms of reference currently while we implement the new ones

1:35:31indicates that membership or quorum is based off of current membership.

1:35:35So with those resignations, we would still be able to work through the end of the meeting.

1:35:40But I'm not seeing any hands for that.

1:35:44So I would think the meeting is now adjourned

1:35:46unless we can give everyone another moment or two here.

1:36:00Leigh Ann, can you confirm you don't see anybody? I don't see anybody.

1:36:02I do not see any hands. Thank you.

1:36:05I would say the meeting is adjourned.

1:36:08Thank you. Thank you all.