Arts and Culture Advisory Committee

0:02Feel free to participate by raising your hand using that feature and I'll make sure that we do call on you.

0:11So I will provide the Indigenous Territorial Acknowledgedness.

0:16So as we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in Gwelk, a city built over rich Indigenous histories.

0:26We are guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land.

0:31The people who live here today and the generations to come.

0:35If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation, we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

0:43This place we call Gwelk has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time,

0:50but more specifically the Atawanderong and the Haudenosaunee.

0:54This land is held as the Treaty Lands in Territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation.

1:00Gwelk lies directly adjacent to the Haudenosaunee track and is part of the long-established traditional hunting ground for the Six Nations of the Vernon River.

1:09Many First Nations, Inuit and Métis people who have come from Cross Turtle Island called Gwelk home today.

1:18Okay, so moving on to disclosure of pecuniary interests and general nature thereof, I've not received any,

1:24but if anyone would like to disclose anything, you can do so now.

1:31I'm not seeing any. So we'll move on to approval of the minutes.

1:36So today we have two sets of minutes to approve.

1:40One is for our regular session that we had in October and the second one is for the closed session that we had during our meeting,

1:49because that was a closed session. You were provided it through an email instead of it being linked in the agenda,

1:58like the minutes generally are. So we will need to approve both sets before moving forward.

2:06Does anybody have any questions or concerns about the minutes?

2:10I'm not seeing any.

2:13Scarlett.

2:14So I thought you were talking, Scarlett.

2:23Sorry, I was talking to somebody here.

2:28Okay, I don't think then there's any questions or concerns.

2:35So could I get a mover and a seconder?

2:38I move.

2:39Okay, I'm sorry.

2:42The second. Okay.

2:44I'm going to stay in all our favor. So if anyone's against, just let me know.

2:50Okay.

2:51Thank you.

2:54Then we'll move on to items for discussion.

2:56So we only have one item tonight, which I think is quite nice after a pretty lengthy meeting that we had last month.

3:04That is the public art donation proposal about the paper bank princess.

3:11So I know that pack has had a few of these proposals in the past, but for those of us who are new or from the museum side,

3:18or who might not be as familiar with them.

3:21And I think Don was supposed to speak to that item, but I'm guessing maybe Tammy would instead.

3:27So I'll turn it over to Tammy to present on the site of.

3:32Thanks Madeline. So yes, Don was intending to be here tonight. She had a family matter in Toronto that went longer than she anticipated.

3:39And so she's not able to make it back, but I am happy to present on her behalf.

3:45She did a circulator report with the agenda. So I hope you had a chance to look at it.

3:52Just in summary, Barmanette from bookshelf fame approached us about the potential for a sculptural bench was the initial thought to have the paper bank princess to be placed in honour of the author of paper bank princess and

4:16beloved to well fight Robert Munch.

4:20And so she approached us with the idea about doing a commemorative bench and had been talking to a number of community members as well.

4:29And feeling that there was a lot of support in the community for people to donate to support an installation like like this.

4:40She is subsequently became acquainted with the work of Ruth Ruth Abernethy, who is a sculpture sculptor who in Guelph sculpted.

4:57We have the remember Flanders sculpture at the Civic Museum and that was a sculpture that was donated to the city by a group of citizens.

5:05And so she had been in touch with Ruth Abernethy and learned that Ruth had actually created for a potential project in Toronto.

5:15A MacCat of the paper bank princess coincidentally and so thoughts around what the artwork might be have expanded from a bench to perhaps something more substantial.

5:30And so the the other thing that's important to know with respect to this offer of a project or a partnership on a project is it's the wish of the of the contributor that it be cited in downtown in St.

5:49George's Square. Don was in touch with Stacy Lachlan who is leading the downtown revitalization project. The staff member who's heading up the downtown revitalization project who indicated that there is a spot within the market square or sorry the St.

6:08George's Square redesign that is intended to be a child friendly space that could potentially be the site of a sculpture like this if we decided that we wanted to go ahead with this project or accept such a sculpture into our collection.

6:26So within Dawn's report she included reference to the public art policy so that you can see that there are a number of ways that public art can come into our collection.

6:36It can come in as a donation of a piece that's commissioned by a community so that would be similar to how the remember Flanders sculpture came into the city's collection.

6:49It was a group of citizens who raised money to support the the casting of that sculpture. The city accepted it as part of its public art collection and in doing so provided some landscaping support and the site for the sculpture.

7:07So that's one way a sculpture or work like this can come into the public art collection.

7:14Another way and those who are on pack more recently in another instance there was a community group that developed and commissioned their own sculpture the soap box and and offered it before they had it.

7:29Before they commissioned it they approached the public art advisory committee the city about accepting it and we accepted that kind of complete piece that was also supported that came to us as a complete piece supported by community.

7:43And so there's a couple of examples of precedence and how we've taken similar objects or artworks into our collection.

7:53As I mentioned, Stacy Glocklin from the downtown revitalization advisor confirmed that there is potential for family child friendly elements within the St. George's Square redevelopment.

8:11And there is that redevelopment is marching on.

8:16As you know, because we've talked about it in relation to the family fountain.

8:21So if there was to be a sculpture created that would be cited in that space.

8:30We would need to have confirmation of that late in this next coming year so time is of the essence.

8:37I've already reviewed the comparable projects.

8:42John also included in her report reference to a life-size sculpture of the paper baked princess that was created by Ben Maccarle in communion with community.

8:56It was another tribute sculpture that was made that involved public participation in its creation.

9:05It is cited at the Guelph Public Library main branch and it is recognized as part of our public art collection, but the contribution to the artist was specifically to the library and so and so it remains cited there.

9:23And so in terms of financial implications at this point we there is no financial commitment. What we are looking to committee tonight for is some advice and input on whether a tribute sculpture to Robert Munch and in particular the paper baked princess sculpture is something that

9:50committee would advise would be a good addition to our public art collection. And so we are looking for input on that and then the second element that we're looking for input on is that the approach that should be taken if we wanted to add a piece like this into the collection.

10:15There isn't, unlike the example of the remember Flanders sculpture where there was a committee that had raised all the money and had been in touch with the artists and commissioned the piece.

10:28This the group that Barb has has assembled around her aren't at that stage. They're really looking for a public private partnership. They do barb has indicated that there are a number of donors who have expressed interest.

10:45And so I guess the question if, first of all, this type of artwork is desirable to add to our collection.

10:55Is this something how should the city participate? Should we work in support of the community group and so that they can commission the piece and then we accept it into the collection or should the city play a more active role?

11:15For example, should we be commissioning the sculpture with support from community? So that is a summary of the report and Liz, if you would share the photos.

11:30So you'll see on the left hand side that is the existing paper bag princess sculpture that is in the collection at the Guelph Public Library.

11:41On the right hand side is a detail of the maquette that Ruth Abernethy created of the paper bag princess.

11:51And then I think there's another image, a wider shot image of that maquette.

11:59And then the neck, if you'll go to the next image, Liz, that is the most recent iteration we had of the St. George's Square redevelopment plan.

12:13And you can see on the blue shape, a sculptural element, a child friendly sculptural element, that would be kind of the proposed location if we were to move forward with a project like this.

12:30I did see today that there's been a new updated plan for St. George's Square release today, but I haven't had a chance to take a look at it yet.

12:42So I will do that after we're done meeting today.

12:46And so I turn it back to the committee. Again, we're seeking advice if this is a desirable project to move forward with and if so, what would be the best approach?

13:00And I'm happy to answer any questions as well.

13:05A couple of things. I don't know if everybody's aware, but Robert Munch recently has stated that his papers, he's leaving his papers to the Welfth Public Library to be archived at the Welfth Public Library.

13:22So there's been a close relationship between the library and Robert Munch over the years.

13:31And I believe, and Tammy, you may know better, that there's been some conversation maybe between the library and the friends of the public library and the city around a sculpture of the Paperback Princess.

13:53I think quite separate from the conversation with Barb and the city.

14:00Interesting. No, I hadn't heard that there was a conversation around another Paperback Princess sculpture.

14:10However, we do have a meeting with the library the week after next, I think, to talk about public art and so potential. So I can get clarity then.

14:27When this proposal came to us, the library was suggested as a good potential site, but the proponent of the project really had hoped that it would be in St. George's Square.

14:51So I guess from my point of view, I think it's important that the conversation be had or extended to include the library so that those kinds of decisions can be made with the whole community.

15:14Thanks for that, Katie.

15:20If I may. Firstly, apologies for not getting there in person and apologies for any rambling I'm going to do. I've got a bit of a head cold still. I always have a head cold, but there you are.

15:42There's something about the St. George's Square development that sort of promises a lot of potential space for art. And there is, I think, to a colleague who spoke last like how much of a redevelopment, either infrastructure or in creative interventions is here is your space.

16:10And how much of it is here is our space. What do you want to see here? And I think I like I did not know about the connection with the story and Guelph and stuff. And I think that's a really super, super important to celebrate and to make more public.

16:29And I think that's a real, it's a huge drive for people to like be connected to, to, to story and to narrative and to play something that's something that we should really embrace.

16:40And I also think there's, there's a lot of potential things that could be going into a new development before it's even reached its final sort of design that we should be just careful to, you know, to, to like the space as much as looking after the art, I think.

17:07Because it could get cramped. And a child friendly space in my mind is very soft and playful and movable and changeable as opposed to having something immovable and chosen by a child in it.

17:26So that's sort of just a few words off the top of my head.

17:36Well, I'll say that I think it's a great idea, but like, I grew up as a child here, so I've had Robert Munch come and do like his stories.

17:47So I do think it's a great idea and I do think that we should as a city capitalize on that a bit more. Like we can see there's a lot of love for him throughout the country.

17:56In terms of like, I know so this past like making this kind of more of like a tourist destination, like I think that that is something that we have that in our pocket and we should use it.

18:06So I think it's a great idea in terms of whether, like how involved the city should be. I think there is something to be said about the space element of if it's a bench, that's one thing you can kind of put a bench anywhere.

18:17But if it's going to be something else, then that might there might need to be more collaboration on what that looks like. How big like is it? How tall is it? Where would that be?

18:27One thing I'll say about the dragon, Merkhet, that kind of comes to me as it looks a little bit like a slide. And I know that there is like some just like talks about having playground and that damn town, which is an interesting choice.

18:42But I just I think it's kind of interesting how I feel like there are things that could be done to make it a child friendly sculpture. Like is this something that's going to be like you can look at it from afar, but you can't touch it like the family that's in the fountain.

18:58Or is this something that we do want children to interact with? So maybe that's where the city would want to take more of a role in what that looks like.

19:11I can't. I will say that Ruth Abernethy designs her sculptures to be interactive. And so she does encourage that kind of interaction. So even with the remember Flanders sculpture, she designed it in a way that children could actually climb up and sit on John McCrae's lap on the sculpture, like on the sculpture as he's being the book.

19:34And so the artist is is mindful of that when creating her works.

19:43So I want to thank people for broadening my ideas of what a sculpture can be. Thank you.

19:48I guess thinking about a slide in the center of what is St. George's Square.

20:12I wonder how how interventions like one that's been proposed here helps to like socially prescribed space, if you know what I mean, like if we're if by putting like a playground in the middle of St. George's Square, we're sort of

20:36I'll be trying to move families into that space to be playful and to be caring at the at the risk of moving other communities. And I don't know how much of a much of a soft sort of like social engineering that could be and I worry about that.

20:55I sort of I see the I see the worth in having that sort of, you know, that first encounter with public space being playful and also like literal, you know, connected to local literature and, and, you know,

21:17I'm a small princess, showing down a dragon. Then I also think of like, what's back what sort of lies behind that too. I don't really have an answer or position on that.

21:29I do have a position on that but I have I have like that there's there's it's concerned if there's a bit of a concern there I think as well, taking into consideration things that have happened within St. George's Square in the last two years, and sort of the moving on of people who are unhomed.

21:48And I worry how this could inadvertently sort of solidify that position.

21:57And yeah.

22:00So I would suggest that is a conversation that is better suited for the downtown revitalization at table and they do have public engagement open on the new on the updated design elements. So I guess, you know,

22:20if we could go back to and I think I'm hearing general agreement but just to confirm that there is general agreement that it would be wonderful to have a sculpture sculptural element of some sort in tribute to Robert Munch as part of the city's public art collection.

22:39Am I hearing that, or is there any concern about that.

22:49And then I'm hearing the sighting of it and and when we bring works into our collection and the public art policy identifies this.

22:59The city can determine the site.

23:04So it did.

23:06You know what we have is a recommendation a desire expressed by the proponent, the person who's put forward the proposal.

23:16That it be cited in St. George's Square we've done our homework to understand that there could be an opportunity with the current revitalization project, but I think I might be hearing that there is

23:30that that we should be thinking more broadly about what that site might be and what the other opportunities are. Am I hearing that correctly.

23:40Yeah, I think so. I think that it might. And again, I don't know what the outside of the new library is going to be like and whether there is potentially a place there that that might be suitable as well might tie in the two.

24:01And then the other element that we were hoping to get some guidance on tonight is what should we expect the city's role to be in a commission like this.

24:26Should we, you know, thank the people who are the community members who are rallying around this and lend them support but let them lead the project the fundraising the commissioning of it.

24:40And then when they are ready.

24:42We will work with them to accept it into the collection and find a site for it.

24:50Or do you think the city should have a more active.

24:54Would you recommend the city have a more active role and actually being leading the commission.

25:03And, and, you know, we would be with the understanding that we would be relying on community donations to make this happen.

25:13I don't know that I, I can't think of what the pros and cons are to those two option. I don't think I have enough.

25:37Enough context or understanding of that.

25:47I guess I would say, I mean, I feel like I'm always kind of a proponent of the city being an active participant in perpetuating more and wonderful art things.

26:00But I also think that in this case, it makes sense because the city has better resources to engage kind of in that community engagement process that might be necessary for figuring out exactly how it's cited and some of those

26:16specifics versus a community led effort might might run into more challenges and may or there just may not be as much broad involvement from the community if the city is not involved.

26:32And I think because of the city's resources, they have a better positioning to kind of use those resources and like include more people in the consultation process, I guess.

26:50The question I would have is what, like, what was their intent with reaching out now? Because it sounds like there is quite, that there is, like, that they have been talking and that there's a lot of people that are coming together.

27:01So it kind of sounds like they've already got the bowl, the ball rolling. So what is it that they want from the city and reaching out now?

27:10Yeah, I think the ball is rolling, but it is, as I understand it, there are people who have put their hands up and said, yes, we will support this, but there isn't kind of a leadership group that wants to lead it that or is positioned to lead a

27:29community fundraising campaign. We're estimating a project like this is likely in the neighborhood of $250,000. The bar, as I understand it, is in touch with Ruth and is getting some going to get some actual quotes that will refine our understanding of the commitment.

27:55So there's some enthusiastic, passionate people who want to see this project happen and who will put skin in the game. But at this point, there isn't kind of a leadership group that is positioned to do a capital fundraising campaign and take on commissioning.

28:18Yes.

28:21If indeed the friends, and this is just something that was mentioned to be in passing, but it's the friends of the library are interested in something like this and there really are sort of two parallel similar ideas floating about.

28:40I mean, they certainly are a group that has substantial finances behind them in terms of the money that they have raised through their book sales over the years.

28:57So maybe it would be good for this city to take a more active role in sort of pulling together groups that may not have sort of come together yet to pull ideas together that might be desperate right now.

29:18Yeah, I think to that it like it sounds like they're like if the city is able to then I think we should.

29:27The city should get more involved if it just that they need some leadership or some direction and the city definitely has the resources that could get this thing out of the chat so to speak.

29:44So, so I mean, I know you understand our resources are finite.

29:50And so it would mean working it into our work plan and perhaps something comes out of the work plan to make capacity for it. But it sounds like there's enough interest and and and and passion around this project that you would advise that we make it a priority.

30:09I think so.

30:10I think the city, you know, negotiating like an echo to pull partnership and the project is a really good support.

30:22Exactly the type of input and guidance we needed. So I think Liz has probably captured all of that in emotion.

30:46Yes, I'm happy to pull up the slide. Now, I'm not an art expert, so I've just tried to pull the ideas and as much as I can, but please let me know if I may have gotten your your suggestion wrong.

31:01We can edit it together so that we pass this as a committee. Let me just share my screen here one second.

31:10So there's a lot here, but it's down here. Please let me know if you need to take it bigger.

31:26Again, open to edits. Let me know.

32:01Sure. I'm open to edits and you want me to change things.

32:04It shouldn't have an apostrophe.

32:08On the first point, Liz, city staff, I would say continue to engage with community partners. Community partners. Yeah.

32:29Because we haven't had the discussion with the library yet. It has been community partners that have proposed this idea.

32:43Can I ask something? You know, the people who are proposing this statue of the art intervention, the adults.

32:51And this is sort of like a child's book, isn't it? And I wonder what weight we can propose for this actually to be a child led.

33:04You know, how, you know, where does the paper princess belong? Do they belong in St. George's Square?

33:12Do they belong outside of multinational bank? Or do they belong outside of where does where does that statue belong?

33:18And I think the people who this this story is in for and written within mind is emerging humans, you know, or people who are, you know, encountering these things alongside the paper princess.

33:34And I just wonder, like, is this suggestion appropriate? How can how can that be sort of like reflected in this?

33:42And we say community. But again, I think of adults and I think of the community, I think of taxpayers.

33:48And I'm sure the city does too.

33:53But yeah, I'm just wondering, like, how can that be unfolded into a suggestion or whether that's the thing that we want to suggest?

34:01Well, I'm wondering if that could be incorporated into consider what the city's role should be with this sculpture, for example, its size, shape, interactive components and community engaged processes that involve children.

34:22The direct benefactors of the intervention or something like that.

34:26I mean, there's something about the library that the we have this is so for my understanding the city already hold or look after a paper mache statue.

34:38So that's already something that's sort of within the care of the city.

34:42And the library asked for that.

34:45Asked for that to be taken into the city's care. Is that correct?

34:50Sorry, come again.

34:54Yeah, sorry.

34:56It's currently in the collection of the wealth public library. So yeah.

35:05And so we raised it like in this report to let you know that there was a depiction of the paper baked princess already.

35:14In public art, this public, not the city's public art, but public art in general in the city. And just in case there were concerns about duplication of subject matter.

35:27So the city doesn't that statue is in part of the city's.

35:34Yeah, it's a bit unclear because it is registered as part of our collection, but we have learned and subsequently researched that the donation was to the library.

35:44So, yeah.

35:46Yeah.

35:47Okay.

35:48So I wonder like,

35:52I just read the spirit about community get dressed up off.

35:55I hate the phrase, but like, you know, the idea that the library is a sort of stakeholder within this mythology as well and within the city having a connection to it and upholding that sort of relationship with the author and the story.

36:30Is it I feel like the city, the city shouldn't have a role of bringing these people together.

36:36Like being the richer out does.

36:44Can you repeat that Steve? Yeah, it's just considered.

36:47Yeah, it's just considered to consider what the city's role should be with the sculpture, for example, its eye shape directed components like community engage processes that involve direct dot a dot.

36:57But then I sort of think like the resources should be just maybe after just listening to everyone that the city's role should be

37:13identifying and inviting stakeholders into this process.

37:20You know, an equitable, you know, as a non, as a non biased, you know, entity that is trying to, you know,

37:34ensure that the publics of because it's going to be a public piece of art and you know, to make sure the different publics are represented as opposed to the piece of art defining who the public got.

37:46So Stephen, you said the different

38:03publics.

38:07Yeah, I was just sort of a thought on, you know, what public art should should should be should or shouldn't be doing.

38:14I guess it's to to ensure that, you know, the different communities in publics and Guelph who feel a connection or have a connection to

38:27the paper princess are

38:31given enough chance to be part of the conversation.

38:34Communities broadly, you know, brackets broadly defined because then we're not just on the

38:43can we pay tax.

38:50You said be included in

38:54the conversations slash

38:57other words have you got here.

39:01Consultations.

39:03That's another C word.

39:05Yeah.

39:06Around the the development and the implementation of the artistic intervention sculpture of the paper princess project because after those things are minor. Yeah.

39:24Not that I have a bias against ethereal things, but the sculpt, you know, the idea of having something in the city that represents it visually isn't I think it's important to it is important to have those things that are

39:38permanent and

39:41tangible

39:43and those sculptures, you know, they sort of told the story very well.

39:47What that said, do we think I think this one is to remove this one as well?

39:57Or do we want to keep it with the community partners?

40:00I think we need I think that first point references the community partners who have proposed this project. And so I think continuing to engage with them is important.

40:15Yeah.

40:16And also sorry, I don't know.

40:18I feel like I'm talking a lot here, but I'm looking at it and sort of just

40:22filling things out.

40:24You know, the people who are bringing the the the proposal are the you know, the first primary community partner.

40:31And I guess it's in collaboration with the community partner.

40:35The city role should include identifying and inviting stakeholders.

40:39I think that would be one fine.

40:46Maybe be condensed together or taken out because I feel like they could be represented in bullet three, but

41:00like like this because having the city play more of an active role in helping full ideas from different groups.

41:08And like including, you know, providing resources like something to that effect, like including resourcing. Yeah, could be like the city has the resources.

41:27Yeah, I think yeah.

41:35Yeah, I think yeah.

41:39And consider adding this project to the city's work plan and that wasn't so.

42:06Bullet.

42:07We need that.

42:09You can actually probably combine those two.

42:14Consider adding this project to the city's work plan and playing more of an active role in helping to pull ideas from different groups, including.

42:27I'm wondering if number one and three are sort of.

42:30Should be together or are if number one is already included in number three.

42:37I think one is about like the individuals who've already brought it forward and three is more about people who are not currently involved.

42:50Right.

42:51We could restructure it's been three up so it's like under one.

42:57And that's important.

43:00I guess it should.

43:17Sorry, just thinking the city staff, the city staff will continue to engage with community partners.

43:25And I don't have discussions on this topic and project.

43:29The city's role.

43:31Because, you know, the relationship between the city and the community partners needs to.

43:39Keep building and flourishing and things.

43:42I'm just wondering whether should is the right.

43:44Whatever that is.

43:46Should could change to can, but I do think what's represented as number two now should be the first bullet point.

44:03Like, I think we need to acknowledge this has come from the community.

44:07And and that.

44:09Yeah, that it's important that like we're still in relationship with those.

44:14Proponents.

44:16Maybe the city should offer.

44:19Should offer within the capacity.

44:26You know.

44:28We're identifying in a binding stakeholders to the process.

44:32Off and prioritize.

44:34I don't know what the wording should be because it is.

44:37I mean, just thinking of this feels very.

44:43No, this isn't open meeting, but at the same time.

44:47You know, there's a relationship that could represent the train represent as well to the council.

44:55Um,

44:56should prioritize identifying and inviting stakeholders in partnership with the community partners.

45:06I would just change that.

45:07Additional stakeholders in this process.

45:10There you go.

45:11Thank you.

45:19Can we use a different word than stakeholders?

45:21Can we use community members?

45:25Additional.

45:26Well, fights.

45:29Well, yeah.

45:30And not just community members, but.

45:40But organization.

45:42And I think that's a good point.

45:44Yeah.

45:45And not just community members, but.

45:48But organizations.

45:53Because yeah, I don't know if you want to explicitly mention library and friends of library.

46:03I think we need to.

46:05But like, I think like, let's keep it broad.

46:08I think we started.

46:09I always like the term, including, but not limited to, but I think that's getting a bit worthy.

46:17I feel like what we have here is pretty good.

46:21And cashers.

46:23What we've been chatting about.

46:25Scarlett had proposed different wording to community members.

46:31That's good.

46:33I don't see the comments on.

46:34Sorry.

46:37What about partners, community partners?

46:40Interested parties.

46:42Additional.

46:43So additional interest.

46:45Interested parties.

46:47Is that right?

46:49I don't think you need in this process with this culture.

47:06I think just in this process.

47:09Are we good with the language?

47:32I'm going to propose them that we.

47:37Improve this.

47:39So the recommendation is that the arts and culture advisory committee receive and support the staff report.

47:45Title the public art donation proposal, paper break princess, and that the arts and culture advisory committee and provide the following comments for staff consideration regarding the paper bank princess public art proposal.

47:59Do we have a mover and a seconder?

48:06Katie moves.

48:07Thanks.

48:08The second.

48:09I second.

48:11Thanks.

48:13But I'm going to assume all in favor.

48:15So if anyone is against.

48:18Just let me know.

48:19I don't think so.

48:21So that.

48:22There he is.

48:24All right.

48:25Thanks everyone.

48:26Thank you.

48:29So now we're moving on to item three, which is the chair and staff announcements.

48:35I did have something for chair, but I know that we also have staff announcement.

48:39Though I know that Don isn't here, but I was wondering, Tammy, you were going to speak on that.

48:44This one is over to Jeanette. So Jeanette will give an update on the police headquarters.

48:50Call to artist.

48:52Great.

48:53We'll start with that announcement.

48:56Great. Thank you.

48:57So, um, so this update is going to be on the timeline of the proposal. So if you recall, we talked about these headquarters commission.

49:07This was a project that was brought forward by sir retired service people, the police community, other community members.

49:17And they have raised fun.

49:19And so we are moving forward with the project. Our initial launch date had been November 17th.

49:28But after meeting with comms, we were advised that we would be better to wait until at budget season.

49:38So as not to clog the airwaves and to have a little clarity on where things sit.

49:44And also with the artists and residents program so close in our river near, it would better to add a little space.

49:52So we went and we looked at the project timeline and looked at the what, what kind of massaging we could do, what kind of shifting we could do.

50:03And, and we came up with a revised timeline with January 5th launch date instead.

50:11So if, if we could pull up the slide, we have a little, little kind of chart.

50:20Here we go. Okay, so this is our revised timeline.

50:30And I've kind of color coded it so that we can see the timeline for artists is in purple. The purples don't match.

50:39It's been an experiment here with the timeline and the calendar lava, a cleaner infographic if we're using this in public, but you know, bear with me in the mismatch.

50:49The purples are the artist timeline.

50:53The orange is the staff timeline. It's sort of like a bit of a yellow above.

50:59And the green is the jury or we've been using this terminology selection committee more recently.

51:07And just to make sure, you know, in case, in case that's less familiar.

51:13And so, so if you kind of look at the top, we've got a January 5th is the dark purple. So what I've done is, is put deadlines for the various groups in a dark color.

51:24And then the lighter color is kind of like a working pit.

51:28So I don't, I don't know, you know, if this is clear, I've tried to put it in kind of different formats.

51:34People, people think differently in process time differently for me.

51:38I use a lot of coding.

51:39So if there's another way, we also have a list form. So we can look at that.

51:44But basically the January 5th, the dark purple there is the release date for the call to artists.

51:51So we would distribute the call. This is a national call. So it's a, it's a wide net.

51:58And then artists would have until March 2nd, you can kind of see over on the other side to submit expressions of interest.

52:09So at this point, we're just asking for qualifications. We're asking for a portfolio. What kind of work have they done in the past?

52:17Do they have the background to be able to do that, that kind of thing?

52:22So it's a pretty general one.

52:24And then the next week we have on the 12th, that's the call for jurors.

52:30So that's the kind of teal color on the top on the calendar there.

52:32And if you're following the dots at the bottom, if that works better for you and visualizing time, there's so many different ways to visualize time than the dot there.

52:42That's when the call to jurors would be released.

52:45So, you know, we have our internal staff deadlines in here, but so we'd be holding an info session.

52:51So there'd be about two weeks in between when artists would learn about the call and when jurors or jurists or potential selection committee members would learn about the call.

53:00And then we would have an online info session so people could learn about the product, ask questions about the site or about the process, anything like that.

53:12So, so selection committee or jury applications would be due at the beginning of February.

53:18And then, you know, you notice after the dates for artists or for jurors, there's selection committee members that there's often an orange date.

53:28That's kind of a staff processing time receiving applications, collating them, distributing them, etc.

53:37So basically, at the, yeah, so the beginning of February, artists are still working on their qualification.

53:48Yeah, so the juror applications would do the beginning of February.

53:51The artists are still working on their Phase 1 applications.

53:55And then beginning of March, that's when those are due.

54:00So they have a good two months to put to, to become aware of the call and to put together submissions of their qualifications to reach out with questions, that kind of, so there'd be a two month period for artists.

54:16And it looks like for some reason the jury period is a little bit shorter, so that might not have been adjusted.

54:25That's very strange. I'm just looking at this now, but yeah.

54:29Oh, I see. Yes.

54:31There's, there is a period in there where the jury applications are being reviewed. I don't have it as a staff time, but that would be a staff time.

54:39And then, so when we get into March, at the beginning of March, so artists that dark purple square there, artists have put in their Phase 1 expression of interest.

54:56There's a little time to collate them.

54:58And we have a jury orientation. So jurists would be supplied with the qualifications beforehand.

55:07And we'd have a meeting with them on the 10th. And so familiarize them with the process.

55:13And then they would have two weeks.

55:17And then we have a meeting.

55:19We're trying to streamline it for people so that it doesn't take up too much time.

55:24And the meetings can be fairly efficient for people who've been part of the public art advisory committee.

55:30You're sort of familiar with the process. It were very similar to this.

55:34But we are developing a process for a specific jury.

55:40And so this would be, you know, if members of ACAC want to apply, this is open, but also general community members would be welcome to apply.

55:49Anyone really with any kind of experience that they feel to be relevant to the project.

55:56And so when we get down to, I'm not going to go through all of it.

56:00I think I'm going through it in a little bit too much detail and I'll just kind of invite you to ask questions.

56:05But basically this timeline at the bottom with the dot takes us to the end of Phase 1, which is the expressions of interest.

56:14And then we would, there would be a meeting, the jurists would score, like just like in public art advisory committee, and submit their score.

56:28They would be collated and then we would meet again and they would discuss and debate and have all sorts of interesting conversations.

56:36And then come up with a short list and then the short list would be invited to develop a Phase 2 proposal.

56:44That's a longer proposal. So they have three months for that one.

56:50And then you can see in July there's another green jury period.

56:56And so that's where the Phase 2 applications are evaluated.

57:04So then at the end of July we have an artist pick.

57:11August we have as an internal staff period for contracts and meeting and clarifying expectations, all of that.

57:22And then basically September, October, November, December, those are all budget periods.

57:27So the project period would go from September 2026 to June 2027.

57:35So when we worked the timeline, it looked like we would have project completion date of July 2027.

57:43So we're kind of on target with our original timeline.

57:46We didn't really lose any time in there.

57:48We found some efficiencies within the timeline.

57:52And so the artists would have a full nine months to develop the project, engage in community consultation, to research materials, to do whatever it is that their process demands.

58:04And the project was installed by July 2027 and have kind of an August to September unveiling period for the art at police headquarters.

58:18So that's a lot of detail. I probably went into a little too much detail.

58:24I would love to answer any questions that you might have about the project and about the revised timeline and any concerns about if there are push points in there where you think that maybe a little more time should be allowed or that something doesn't need as much time.

58:44Those of you who've been part of the jury process, I really welcome your feedback on that because it'll be very similar.

58:50Yeah, thank you.

58:51One thing I'm wondering is if the online video sessions would be recorded and then will it be available because January can be a very busy time for freelancers and people applying for jobs.

59:14That has been our practice.

59:16Yeah, that's a great suggestion.

59:20Yeah, one thing we have also been interested in, I know this isn't a discussion item as much for this meeting, but we have been advised in discussions with our public art colleagues that a broad public art outreach would be advisable in finding people who would be interested in being part of the jury.

59:54And we are open to suggestions about how to reach as broad and diverse an audience as possible.

1:00:05We want to make sure that we're not getting the usual suspects that we are getting people who are not arts professionals as well as people who are people who have different life experience.

1:00:17And so that's something I can kind of leave with you or exploring ways to do that.

1:00:23But if you do have suggestions, we're happy to hear them.

1:00:28And we do want annual and fulsome community participation in this project.

1:00:35It's very important for it.

1:00:37So is there a way that we can sort of help bring potential call out resources and stuff to you and then you're able to make a decision whether you're, I know some things ask for a small payment for inclusion and these sort of things.

1:01:08So is just sending you ideas the best way forward and then you guys are able to make decisions or have a think about.

1:01:19I would suggest there's two ways that you could be helpful in disseminating the information.

1:01:26One is exactly how you've described it.

1:01:29Steve, if you send us suggestions about where we should be sharing the residency or sorry that the, the call to artists.

1:01:39We do have a budget to support communications around this.

1:01:45And then the others we will make sure that you all receive the call to artists and and if you can share widely amongst your networks, that would be helpful too.

1:01:53Okay, I have to chime in a little bit into this.

1:02:02I'm thinking still along the lines of how do we reach a broader audience and I like to say that it lots to balls down to.

1:02:17I hate to always talk a broken record right, but I feel like a lot has to do also with the image because.

1:02:24The easiest way to communicate with people these days.

1:02:28Will always social media right.

1:02:32The first question that I want to ask and I don't want to talk too much about it, but the first question I want to ask now would be how diverse.

1:02:43Other people where we're reaching currently on social media.

1:02:47How diverse how involved how diverse are the community following the page.

1:02:53And if it's not as diverse as we would like to see.

1:02:57Maybe why there are some basic questions that we just need to work on that I help with that would solve. I mean, there has to be a relationship for people to feel like they want to be heard.

1:03:09So if I don't feel like I really want to be heard.

1:03:14I don't feel like why should I be involved in it anyways.

1:03:18So I think there are basic questions that we might need to ask.

1:03:23Because at the end of the day, it's a relationship that you build with people that actually makes it.

1:03:29I want to contribute so they don't feel like they want to be heard.

1:03:33They're like whatever.

1:03:34So the communication this thing.

1:03:39Most.

1:03:41Budget friendly way to communicate with people these days is social media.

1:03:46And if we can just work on that in whichever way we can.

1:03:49I feel like it plays a huge role in reading in reaching a broader community of people for even the artists as well as the community.

1:04:01So that also we are able to reach a broader.

1:04:08Community of artists for we to have a good group of people to choose from.

1:04:14If that makes sense.

1:04:16But but online.

1:04:18The image of social media is very key to community engagements.

1:04:22Out of my text.

1:04:24That's great. Thank you.

1:04:26I wonder about ways that.

1:04:32You know, there there are specific forums.

1:04:43You know, all of you are connected with the communities and you know, Bandy, I remember at a previous meeting you were talking about how people might be being reached where they are.

1:04:53And you know, I wonder like if there are community notice boards, if there are online spaces, if there are Steve, you were just mentioning on the chat the tabling at the end of the day.

1:05:08And then at cultural events, you know, places where people gather, you know, there are so many different communities. There are so many different gathering plays.

1:05:18And you know, we don't always know about all of them.

1:05:22You know, we're only involved as individuals in several communities and as the city, you know, we have certain kind of standardized way communicating.

1:05:31But you know, everybody, each one of us has these different spaces and different different gatherings basis.

1:05:36And I think that that kind of specific information and input is really helpful because, you know, the desire might be there.

1:05:46But you know, if we don't know, hey, there's a message board over here. That's where people see things, you know, that's where people go.

1:05:53You know, there's some something like, you know, putting it up in a rec center, like if people are taking their kids to the pool, if they're, you know, going, going to work out, like that's that's something we can do the very places like that.

1:06:04But maybe there are other places that we don't know about. And so those kinds of specific suggestions are really great.

1:06:11And, you know, also too, as we're kind of developing language, you know, the jury call is, is very local.

1:06:20It's very the artist call is going to be a national call. It's wider.

1:06:24It's probably going to go through no artist networks like, you know, a Kimbo different places like that.

1:06:30But the jury call is very, very local. And so, you know, we really want people in in Guelph who have a kitchen called because this is a project that's going into our community.

1:06:42And so, you know, we want to ensure that everyone's voices are heard to who feels that they have a stake in that.

1:06:50So, you know, yeah, those kind of specific suggestions are great.

1:06:54I don't want to feel sorry.

1:06:56No bungee, please.

1:06:58I'm so sorry, everybody.

1:07:00This has now become an item of discussion.

1:07:04We are now conversations so borderline not okay in staff announcements, announcements or a time for staff to provide announcement chairs, provide announcements and members can ask point of clarification questions.

1:07:18And staff can take an opportunity to respond. But unfortunately, great discussion, but we have entered into discussion and I'm just going to have to stop that right now.

1:07:28Apologies for the protocol breach.

1:07:31If there's any more questions for Jeanette, she can answer questions, but I think that's it.

1:07:39What resources does the city have to offer in terms of alternative call out?

1:07:49Procedures.

1:07:51I think Steve, if you have, are you talking about budget for advertising or for tabling or all of that something like tabling.

1:08:07Yeah, yeah.

1:08:09So we have, we do have a marketing and communication budget tied to our public art program.

1:08:14And so we do have budget to, to, to get the word out.

1:08:17And so please, if there are places you think we should be, send them to us and we will also get the call out to you to circulate to your networks.

1:08:27So, it doesn't seem like anyone else has any questions.

1:08:49So, I do know, like, people have a lot of thoughts around call and maybe that's something that could be worked into a later agenda.

1:08:57As I'm sure this is going to come back again, because we have it all next year.

1:09:03So maybe we could, I can work on that with staff or.

1:09:08Well, I, I will remind committee that you have looked at the, at the project, the call to artists, the wording in the call.

1:09:16And so that, that we have revisited that.

1:09:21So today we wanted to bring you the update to the timeline that it has, we'll start later. It's condensed, but we are going to meet the end target deadline.

1:09:31So really that is the kernel of what we wanted to share with you today.

1:09:35And we do appreciate your support and getting an input that we need to get the call out broadly and, and, and we appreciate that input.

1:09:48Okay.

1:09:49So, in terms of staff announcements, there was, so we did have the individuals who delegated on behalf of the advisory committee.

1:09:59And I just thought it might be nice to get a little update on how that went.

1:10:04We were notified right before the meeting for individuals to delegate that some money had been put back in.

1:10:11But the delegation still went forward because it is still important that I think we provide that we make it known that like there is it's important to include art and have it reflected in the budget.

1:10:25So thank you so much for those who went and delegated and I will turn it over to you. I think it's Scarlett who was part of that.

1:10:35And Steve.

1:10:36Yes, it was both myself and Steve and Banji also helped with making the delegation, putting the delegation together. We had some great meetings here as silence and some cathartic, you know, group vent sessions, which was nice.

1:10:55The delegation was interesting because as when we arrived, the mayor was like, I see a lot of people here wanting to talk about arts and culture and I just want you to know everything's back in the budget.

1:11:09So kind of took the wind out of our sales a little bit.

1:11:13Considering we had written a pretty passionate delegation happy that those are the results and based on the memo that Steve shared around from the mayor, it looks also like there's intention there to do even more perhaps.

1:11:32I mean, it was vague, but there was an expanding language used expanding arts and culture funding or something or programming. I think it was programming.

1:11:45But yeah, we delegated nonetheless, we just kind of tried to reframe it and say like, we want to bring the same points forward and just really emphasize the, you know, need for continued support of the arts and really pointed to other examples.

1:12:06A lot of the cities that we saw presentations from at the London City of Music Conference, some of the UNESCO creative cities.

1:12:15And just talking about how wonderful and inspiring it was to see these like non major cities be put on the map in this way and to be doing these incredible initiatives and kind of, you know, championing the fact that wealth could do that too and on that level.

1:12:35But that, you know, in consistent and increasing support is necessary for that. And Steve, Bandy, I don't know if either of you would like to add anything.

1:12:48I think I'd agree with the window sales feeling. And then actually when we were leaving, we were sort of the three of us, Scarlett, myself and Bandy, who attended was sort of saying like, well, you know, opposition does the arts have in terms of the push and pull as like, you know, the budget and political discourse and stuff and like,

1:13:17what's the what's actually underneath this sort of thing and and that's why I'm sort of glad that we focus not on just the immediate budget but we did sort of say, you know, we did sort of try and push for this, the idea that the city has a spirit.

1:13:32And the culture is a way of sort of galvanizing that and like, how do you expect us to, you know, to realize that and and and, you know, when you can, when when we're always in a crisis position basically always trying to sort of argue the case for the thing that you keep putting back in.

1:13:51So that's sort of frustrating but then that maybe speaks to, you know, alternative spaces of these discussions that's been brought up today, you know, it's not just between the city and, you know, the, you know, it's not a very big bubble but sort of like the,

1:14:11the political bubble like how can we sort of get out of that and sort of bring other other narratives and discourses and stuff in, you know, and just different ways of relating to all those words, instead of it being, you know, you don't clap now.

1:14:27Yeah, which I understand but I'm like, that last person did a great speech.

1:14:32This isn't the place to clap. Yeah, but like why not.

1:14:37Yeah, so yeah, I don't know, Banjee if you want to speak.

1:14:42Oh, really, I mean, you said all really, I think, well captured in all that you said so.

1:14:51I will say also that freedom from the Gulf Arts Council also made a great delegation that I think was there were some similar points there as well.

1:15:02I think also freedom, you know, celebrated some of the good things that have happened, which is always important to do.

1:15:09I also really admired how the Gulf Tool Library showed up to delegate just basically to say, we're doing great.

1:15:18And just kind of setting precedent to point to all of the impact that they've had and having it kind of almost, I don't want to use the word parading because that sounds bad, but like parading it to like showing off to the to the council about just how important and just how much these organizations can get done when they're ready.

1:15:39And I think that's why they're properly supported. So I appreciated that. But I do think also, yeah, it was important to be there to say to make a point that it's also, you know, we're here, we keep coming back and it's great that things are put back in the budget, but it is frustrating when you know we take time out of our day to to delegate for something

1:16:00and we don't get back in the budget and we don't find out about it until the day of like that was a lot of valuable people's time. Stephen and Banji and I meeting. I mean, like I said, I got a lot from it personally still but it's kind of similar to the experience we had at the last meeting where we spent a lot of time talking about the

1:16:21president's program and then we told we were told that it was being threatened. So it's just important, I think also to remember just how much and as Julia said in the last meeting to like just how much emotional labor.

1:16:35There is in continuously continuously feeling like there's this precariousness that we have to contend with at all times and I mean a lot of us have always worked in these fields so that's very close to home.

1:16:54Thank you for sharing your update and for taking the time to do that on behalf of the advisory committee. I can understand how difficult it can be to put in all that work and then find out that it gets put back in at the last moment but I do think it is really important that you guys still

1:17:12run and presented to demonstrate the importance of properly resourcing these initiatives. So I think that's the last thing that we're going to discuss about. So I will recommend that we adjourn the meeting.

1:17:34I'll need a mover and a seconder for that.

1:17:38Thank you.

1:17:44Anyone opposed to adjourn?

1:17:46I'm going to turn to Vance.

1:17:48Vance, are you ready?

1:17:50Anyone opposed?

1:17:53All right.

1:17:55Thank you. The next meeting will be in the new year, January 22nd, 2026.

1:18:03So, thank you. Have a great rest of your year and happy New Year.

1:18:09You too.

1:18:11Thanks all.

1:18:12Happy holidays.

1:18:14Thank you everyone.

1:18:16Safe home to those in person.

1:18:18Yes, yes.