Accessibility Advisory Committee

0:02And we're going to start off with the new Indigenous territorial acknowledgement.

0:08So as we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in Guelph,

0:14a city built over rich Indigenous histories.

0:17We are guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land,

0:21the people who live here today, and the generations to come.

0:25If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation,

0:28we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

0:32This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time,

0:38but more specifically, the Atawanderank and the Haudenosaunee.

0:42This land is held as the treaty lands in territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation.

0:48Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldemen tract and is part of the long-established traditional hunting ground

0:54for the six nations of the Grand River.

0:57Many First Nations, Inuit and Métis people who have come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today.

1:04There's a link in the agenda to learn more about the Indigenous territorial acknowledgement.

1:10So would anyone like to disclose a conflict of interest before we get started?

1:18I see and hear none.

1:20So moving along to the approval of today's agenda,

1:25can I get someone to motion to approve and the seconder?

1:32And then Sarah, I can't remember. We all have to vote to approve it or we don't all have to vote.

1:36Can we just verbally confirm who moved and seconded that place?

1:40Yes, sure. Sorry. Ted moved.

1:46I'll second, I guess.

1:49Who was that? I can't quite see everybody in the room there.

1:52I think in the room has seconded it.

1:59Yes, and then we were looking for an all in favour after that.

2:04And did we move to doing if there's anyone opposed rather than if all are in favour or are we still doing all in favour?

2:09Yes, opposed.

2:11Anyone opposed? So is anyone opposed to the approval of the agenda?

2:17I see and hear none.

2:19So now it's the same thing for the minutes that were emailed to us from the August 15th meeting.

2:25Would anyone like to move to approve those?

2:30I'm Deborah, put your hand up.

2:33Thank you, Deborah. And it looks like Ted will second.

2:36Is anyone opposed to that?

2:38The approval of the minutes.

2:41I see and hear none.

2:43So we can now move on to the committee items.

2:47Sorry, I just need to get my screen reader to catch up.

2:54So the first item is the rescheduling of the AAC workshop for the municipal election.

2:59We have Leanne here to talk about that. Go ahead, Leanne.

3:02Thank you very much, Chair Root.

3:05So we have a draft motion there, but first of all, I wanted to thank those who let us know about your availability for the workshop.

3:13It did not take place because we did not have quorum, unfortunately.

3:18And so, you know, we're really hoping that, you know, people understand their responsibility to let us know of their availability.

3:26That's part of sitting on or being appointed to a committee of council.

3:30And it's just like, you know, you wouldn't hold on to concerns or, you know, for a period of time and then just give us like a whole bunch of concerns type of thing and expect them to be on the agenda.

3:39It's like all that, you know, trying to make sure that we can do our planning the way we need to do our planning.

3:46So that's why it's really important that you let us know about your availability.

3:50Clerks is offering two new dates.

3:54And Sarah's going to send out an email tomorrow.

3:58And we're asking the committee members, let us know by Monday, October 23 of their availability for the two dates.

4:05The two dates are November 1 and November 14 and six till eight o'clock are the times that we're looking at or that we're offering.

4:14This is the last time that clerks has like they have said that they won't offer this again type of thing.

4:21So this is our last chance type of thing at giving giving this workshop a shot.

4:28And that's it from me. So the motion I guess what we would be looking for.

4:33Awesome. Thanks, Leigh Ann. We've got some time now for a AC discussion if anyone's got any questions or wants to talk about that.

4:43Deborah, go ahead.

4:46I'll apologize for my late withdrawal.

4:51I think I said I was tentative, but then my mother was unexpectedly moved.

4:58And I had to pay attention to her. But I did want to say I find it incredibly challenging to add this to the end of the day.

5:08Like I live with chronic fatigue and for me, putting meetings from six to eight in the evening is the time you're not going to see me at my best or even me be able to absorb.

5:21So I'm I I'll just admit that I'm not going to put as a priority meetings between six and eight PM in the evening because I just can't manage it for accessibility reasons.

5:38Thank you. We've noted that.

5:42Thanks Deborah. Anyone else?

5:45Just wait one second. So we have Chris online and Mike in the room that both have questions or comments.

5:52Perfect. We'll go with Chris and then Mike. Yeah, go ahead.

5:55Thank you. How many do we need for quorum?

6:00Oh, sorry. We need eight for quorum.

6:03Okay. And how many members do we have at this moment?

6:06Nine, I believe. Oh, sorry. No, we've got a couple who have joined in. So I think we're at 11.

6:12Okay, I'm just trying to figure out whether Deborah's absence would mean that we'd have to remove that or whether we could go forward with it, given the fact that one of our members is removed.

6:21Because this has been trying to be launched twice before, I believe.

6:25Just just one other time. Yeah.

6:27Yeah, just trying to figure out what the numbers are for quorum. Thank you.

6:31No problem. So yes, a quorum of the AC, we need at least a minimum of eight members.

6:37And yes, so we will do our best to get quorum for this next workshop date.

6:45And I will be following up tomorrow with those dates as well. So don't feel like you have to necessarily write them down right away.

6:52I will certainly be following up tomorrow in an email.

6:56And then my question is, I kind of was Deborah, like, it would be great to have this a little earlier in the day, if that's possible.

7:05Like, I'm kind of in the same boat, I get a little tired of a little bit late in the day just to the medication and so on.

7:13So I wouldn't be opposed to doing it. I mean, I'll show up, you know, of course, but I would love to go earlier if that's an option.

7:22There were concerns with the through sorry through you reach a chair route.

7:29There were concerns with the vendor facilitator may not be available and is only available like 530 to 730 or 6 to 8 and we were trying to, you know, troubleshoot was it because it was 530 to 730 before did that cause an issue with people's dinner hour that type of thing.

7:51So just trying to try to accommodate Jen poppy. I think thanks. Yeah, Jen, go ahead. Thank you.

8:01I looking, I think you said the first and 14th. I already have a work commitment on the first so say if I'm not able to join in that's the day that goes forward as long as we have enough people on the committee to attend.

8:15Is that what we're looking for?

8:18Yes. Yeah, okay. Okay.

8:22All right, awesome. Thank you.

8:26I don't see any other hands. So I'll just quickly say to that.

8:31It's sorry Laura line. Sorry to interrupt.

8:34Ted has his hand up as well.

8:37Oh, sorry, I didn't see you there Ted. I was looking at the raised hand icons.

8:42Your microphone is muted though Ted.

8:44Ted, your microphone is muted so we can't hear you right now.

8:51What's that that we're unmuted?

8:53The unmute button is just next to two over from the red leave button at the top of your screen.

9:07Or you can use control shift and the letter M on your keyboard to also unmute control shift M.

9:26I can't unmute him. You should.

9:28He doesn't have his hand up.

9:32We're still muted here Ted for the meantime. I apologize.

9:43You should see the like button to to the left of the big red leave button on your screen at the top of the screen.

10:17Have you tried using the keyboard shortcut?

10:21I think you have to push them all at the same time. So control shift M.

10:30The control is CTRL. I make him a presenter.

10:57I didn't even mute you.

11:01I'm sorry.

11:03Can you hear me?

11:04Yes.

11:11Oh, we lost the button.

11:13So you just muted again like you're in mute again.

11:17So whatever you did just before you said, can you hear me? That's what you need to do again.

11:23We heard you.

11:25Yeah, we can hear you go for it.

11:27Awesome.

11:29Well, it's just a simple question. I was just wondering why do we have to have a full quorum like eight people.

11:36I know that we had five before and we had to cancel.

11:40To me, that was kind of ridiculous because I know that the chair and myself have been involved at some point with with the voting and it to me, it just seemed kind of ridiculous.

11:58Yeah, yeah, we, you know, we, we can see that for sure, but we have to follow the municipal act and when we have a public meeting of the committee at any type, even if it's a workshop, we have to have quorum.

12:12Yeah, we hear you.

12:14Okay, thank you.

12:16Awesome. I don't see any other hands.

12:24So I'm going to go ahead quickly and just say the one thing that I will say is I would really like if it could also be communicated to clerks one thing that I noticed when we showed up for that meeting, and we were discussing whether or not it could be rescheduled.

12:39The facilitator said something about well I could maybe do it as an online meeting instead, but just to let you know, some of the members wouldn't be able to, like you won't get as full of an experience because it won't be in person.

12:52So people who show up here, it won't be in person. And I was like, well I'm hoping that they're going to design it in a way that even those of us who have to, because I don't have an immune system I can't show up in person.

13:04So if we could also communicate to clerks that we'd like it communicated to the facilitator that the full experience of this workshop should be available to people who are participating online as well as in person, because a lot of us can't come in person.

13:18And I was a little concerned about that comment but we were already over time and we had to, like, we had to stop that meeting so that's one thing I'd like added to the recommendation maybe that we recommend that you send an email to

13:32DAAC with but also that you communicate to clerks that we would like the full experience for both in person and online attendees.

13:42Sarah has her hand up in the room.

13:44Well ahead Sarah.

13:45I just to respond to you there to give a little bit more context. The facilitator was, I think, more trying to communicate that them themselves would either be online or in person.

13:57It does not, and it will not change the experience or the interaction and facilitated session in any way. It's just a matter of commuting and being physically in the meeting room and or she can run it virtually through the meeting platform that we'll go with.

14:14Sorry, Sarah. I think there's a misunderstanding. She did specifically say, if I come back, I could maybe do it virtually for less money but if I do that you need to understand that the people would not have the same experience who attend in person because they wouldn't be able to be here and interact with me.

14:30And I'm just saying like if virtual is going to change the experience for people, whether it's her being virtual or us, you know what I mean? She did definitely say I can do it virtually.

14:40It wouldn't cost as much but people would not get the same experience because we'd be interacting virtually rather than in person so they can't interact in the... I don't know what she has planned.

14:50If she has like interactive things planned that are going to be easier to do in person, that's what it sounded like. So I just want to make sure that we communicate to her that some people will be virtual and it's important that those people have full access to everything.

15:04Definitely. Yeah, we've definitely been doing that from the beginning with this workshop that it was pretty much most of our members do join online with the exception of Mike who generally comes in person.

15:15So yes, that has certainly been on the radar from the get go and that is our top priority to make sure that everybody, whether you're virtual or in person, has that same experience and opportunity.

15:26Okay, thank you. I was just concerned with the facilitators wording.

15:32So, if there are no more comments on that, if we could get... Would anybody like to create a motion? There's a recommended motion there.

15:44And then if anyone would like to add anything or edit anything, I can't because I'm the chair.

15:50Mike, would you mind if I move to the room?

15:52I guess I'd like to create the motion. I think I'm doing the trade to maybe find out a little bit more information as to what the workshop will include if the experience is going to change a little bit.

16:03I'd like to address Lorela's concerns and get that information as back before Monday would be great because I know that's when you want us to know by.

16:12So it'd be easier. So yeah, I guess just to request more information to the AAC by Monday so people can address. Is that proper wording?

16:20Is this about the experience?

16:22Yeah.

16:23It's focused on the experience. Is that right?

16:26Yeah, like I just want to make sure like if people have to come down, we know and people can adjust schedules or whatnot.

16:32Okay.

16:33Yeah, so just more information is what I'd like for the motion, I guess.

16:37Sorry if I didn't get the wording, right?

16:40And then do you want to continue with the motion that's up on the screen?

16:45Yes.

16:46About the timing for us letting you know the dates?

16:48Yes.

16:49For letting us know better.

16:51Yes.

16:52Okay, so do you mind Mike just putting that at the beginning?

16:56Okay.

16:57You could start with and then kind of.

16:58I would like to request more information be provided to the AAC regarding the in-person experience versus virtual by Monday, October 23rd.

17:07And follow up via email by October 23rd as well regarding availability of matters.

17:21Okay.

17:22So my second motion guys, I'm trying.

17:25We're just looking for second or there bar by.

17:30Yeah, would anyone like to second that motion?

17:33No.

17:34Sue, we have Sue Ferguson.

17:40Okay.

17:41Just check if there's any opposed there.

17:45And is anyone opposed?

17:50I see in here none.

17:51All right.

17:52That motion passes.

17:53And we can now move on to the next item on the agenda.

17:56Thanks everyone.

17:58So the next item we have is the annual play equipment lifecycle project.

18:05And we have Stefan here again.

18:07Hey, Stefan.

18:08The floor is all yours.

18:09We have a five minute staff presentation and then we have 20 minutes to discuss as the AAC.

18:14Perfect.

18:16Thank you, Lorelei.

18:20I'm going to share my screen here.

18:22All right.

18:42So thanks again everyone for having me.

18:44It's another year of playground replacements.

18:48So we're going to talk about where we're at.

18:50For those of you that don't know me, my name is Stefan.

18:53I'm a project manager with Park Development Park and Trail.

18:58Development with the city.

19:00And we're going to, I'm here to talk about playgrounds.

19:05So this is the agenda for the meeting right now.

19:11So we're going to do an update on where we're at with this particular project.

19:18Touch on the community engagement and AAC opportunity to inform the design process.

19:25Which has been, which has gone a long way to inform where we are and how we've come up with these designs, especially with University Village Park, but I'll get into that later.

19:35So we're going to get into the play equipment designs for Dovercliffe and Howa Parks.

19:41We'll provide an update with where we're at with regards to University Village Park.

19:48And I'll give you another update on where we're at overall in the city with Rubri's Surfaces.

19:55And then we can get into the questions period after the presentation and any recommendations and motions.

20:07So where we're at right now.

20:09The last time we met was pretty much a year ago on this particular project where we were just,

20:19entering phase one community engagement, which ran November 29th to December 15th, 2022.

20:31And in that meeting, what you told us really has helped us to gather the appropriate information at the beginning of the project to inform the design process.

20:43We would like to carry that process forward where we meet with you before we start design and then circle back to this point in time in the project where we discuss the designs with you after they've gone through community engagement.

20:56We're going to try and keep that going.

20:59So as I mentioned, phase two community engagement for this particular project concluded October 8th.

21:08So we have final designs for Dovercliffe Park and Howa Park based on community engagement.

21:16And then phase two community engagement for University Village Park will occur in November.

21:24And I'll be back at the December 19th meeting to discuss those details with you.

21:32Deppin, are you able to just kind of hit the high notes because the AAC members have already reviewed your presentation?

21:39Yeah, sorry, Leanne. I'll get right to it.

21:43I won't spend too much time on this slide because we've already gone through this. These are the sites that we'll be up for replacement.

21:53They currently don't have any accessible trail routes, seating.

21:58They don't have any accessible ramping into the play surface. There is no accessible play surface and very little ground play or sensory panels at any of these locations.

22:12But we'll get right into the design for Dovercliffe Park.

22:19So this one is ranked highest by the community and it is done by Play Power.

22:28The highlights include five different slides at various deck heights, a combination of junior and senior play structure with shade panels, an independent toddler playhouse structure,

22:44and a pretty significant climbing apparatus that has a lot of climbing features to promote challenging opportunities.

22:58There are two senior swings. So this is the playhouse, sorry. And onto the left side is the climber you can see.

23:10This is a top view of the playground, give you a better idea of everything that's in there.

23:18And there is a total of eight interactive sensory play panels that do a pretty good job to promote imaginative and inclusive play.

23:28And over here, there's a separate swing area. There's two tot seats, two senior swings, and two accessible seats.

23:41So we'll skip onto the next one. Just ignore this slide here. We'll get to this at the end.

23:50So this one is Howett Park. This is a smaller park. This is a neighborhood park.

23:57This was the number one design chosen by the community done by New World.

24:03And the highlights for this one include independent senior and junior structure and also an independent climbing structure.

24:14The senior structure includes two unique slides at different deck heights.

24:20It also includes shape panels, a rock climbing wall, and a wildwood climber.

24:28You can see the rock climbing wall on this one in the middle structure and the wildwood climber there as well.

24:36And the shade components that it has and the two slides here.

24:43The junior structure has one shade element as well on the deck.

24:50It also has a rock climber, a slide, and it also has sensory panels below it.

24:56The senior structure also has sensory panels below it as well.

25:01And there are a couple on the deck as well.

25:04There is a pretty significant independent climber.

25:11It has a lot of rope climbing components to it.

25:16And it does well to promote a bit of challenging play for some of the senior kids.

25:26And over on the swing side of it, we have two senior seats, a taut seat, and an accessible seat.

25:36And that is basically it for these two.

25:41That brings us to an update on University Village Park.

25:44So real quick, since we met last time...

25:46I'm just going to remind you, you're a few minutes over, you're five minutes.

25:49So if you could do this in a quick time, that'd be great.

25:53Sure. Sorry, guys.

25:55Okay.

25:57So this is the one you're going to be most excited about, and I'm most excited to share with you.

26:02Like I said, we'll be back in December to bring you these details.

26:07But the Park and Rec Master Plan has identified University Village Park to have fully accessible play equipment and rubber safety surfacing.

26:15So it will have wheelchair accessibility all the way through it, 100%.

26:21And it'll be fully rubberized as well.

26:26And there are the reasons why it was chosen.

26:30Yeah, real quick, centrally located.

26:33Contains parking and is on a trail route as well.

26:38And the Park and Rec Master Plan also just what I didn't include in this presentation, but it also identified Margaret Green Park in life cycling to have rubberized surfacing as well when it's up for replacement.

26:54And so Herb Markle Park and Haddon Crescent Park will be added to that inventory of rubberized surfaces this year.

27:03Herb Markle Park will be open very soon.

27:06Haddon Crescent Park will be open later this year, and next year we'll be doing University Village Park.

27:11And that brings us to question period and discussion.

27:18Awesome. Thank you so much.

27:21Yeah, so we have 20 minutes for AAC discussion now, Ish.

27:25So we've got Chris first. Go ahead, Chris.

27:29Thank you.

27:31That was a good presentation. Thank you very much for that.

27:34I'm just wondering, is there a path of travel that leads to the park?

27:38Because I noticed there was some, like a little bit of a barrier between park and the grass.

27:44And I just want to make sure that was accessible from the path of travel. That's all.

27:48Yes. Each of these parks will include a fully accessible pathway leading to the play equipment and seating areas as well.

27:57Great. Thank you.

28:03I don't know if there are any hints in the room, but I've got Deborah and then Elizabeth.

28:08There are no hints in the room right now.

28:10Perfect. Go ahead, Deborah.

28:13Thanks, Stefan, for this. My question was about both of the designs.

28:20It doesn't appear the designs that there are any wheelchair accessible.

28:26There's no wheelchair access to any of the structures.

28:31Is that true or just could I not see them? And if so, could you show me where they are?

28:37Yes, great question. So there are no wheel, there's no wheelchair accessibility in terms of ramps at these structures.

28:46But what they do have are transfer stations.

28:51So I'll see if I can pull one up here. So you can see on this one here.

28:58The middle structure where that child is with the yellow shirt and the red shorts, that is considered a transfer station.

29:09But the child couldn't go, like a child in a wheelchair or an adult in a wheelchair could not go on any of those structures.

29:17It could just be in the middle. So what's the play value there?

29:22You could do that on a parking lot.

29:27Sorry. What's your question about the transfer platform here?

29:38So the idea would be that someone at Caregiver would be able to assist that child up that transfer platform.

29:47There's another one I can show you in this design as well.

29:53Here it is. If you look to the top, there's a purple tube over here.

30:04This transfer platform here, it'll allow a caregiver to assist someone with that disability.

30:13Those are transfer platforms.

30:22Can you clarify for us what a transfer platform is, Stefan? Because I've never heard of that either and I'm a wheelchair user.

30:28I don't know what that is. It looks like steps to me too.

30:31So right here, these are essentially, so you transfer from the ground surface onto this platform.

30:41And right here, this is a step up to another deck to get them up onto the platform, which will bring them through the play structure.

30:54This structure does not have any steps.

31:00I can show you, it has a transfer platform without any steps.

31:06Sorry. This is the best angle here, I think.

31:11Go ahead.

31:12The transfer platform, do they need to be removed from their wheelchair or do their wheelchairs fit on these platforms?

31:21Yeah, no. You would have to exit the wheelchair.

31:24And you would require somebody else to do the lifting of them, their wheelchair onto this?

31:29Sorry, Stefan, can you repeat what you said?

31:33Yeah.

31:35Sorry, can you hear me?

31:37Yeah.

31:38Yeah, the individual would have to exit the wheelchair.

31:42Okay.

31:48That, yeah, that makes a lot of assumptions about people's mobility and thanks for that information.

31:59All right, Elizabeth, go ahead.

32:02Yeah, my question is about the fact that most of the children coming to the park will not be unattended.

32:13They'll be with parents or caregivers.

32:17And so in terms of shade, has that been in the plan too?

32:22Is there shaded areas for people that accompany the children to the Plague Park?

32:29And have we thought about accessibility for the caregivers themselves?

32:35Yes, great question.

32:39So for Dovercliffe Park, which is this playground here, the design doesn't show this because it's not part of the play equipment design.

32:47But we've designed the site to have a pathway leading into the play area as well as some seating area.

32:56But it will also contain a shade structure like a pavilion style shade structure off to the side.

33:04That will be pretty significant in this park.

33:08Howard Park will have seating areas, but it won't have a shade structure.

33:13But there is lots of shade in the form of trees at that site.

33:19And University Village Park will also have shade structure as well.

33:26Laura Lye, we have Shannon and then Mike in the room and then Andrew.

33:31Thank you, Chris, go ahead and then Shannon, you're up next.

33:36Thanks. Thanks for this.

33:38I was just wondering, has anyone ever seen a precedent setting play area that is fully wheelchair accessible?

33:44I'm just wondering if this information has been provided to staff beforehand or whether these questions are sort of based on first sight.

33:51Because my knowledge is that the reasonable application of accommodations has to apply.

33:56And I'm also thinking that if there is a fully accessible play structure out there, that maybe we should see that as well to get our cue straight.

34:05So are you asking that there are existing examples of fully accessible play equipment in terms of wheelchair mobility?

34:16I need to cover the two comments here just around wheelchair accessibility.

34:21Are there any examples out there of fully accessible play structures?

34:26Are you asking the people who asked the question, Chris, or are you asking Stefan?

34:29I'm asking everybody on the board if there's anybody here who has seen that.

34:34Because we've provided those examples. There's one in Guelph.

34:39Riverside Park has a play structure that's fully wheelchair accessible and also has some like ASL stuff showing.

34:45Are you talking about the one that's near the carousel and so on?

34:48Yeah, yeah, that one.

34:50That's not fully wheelchair accessible though. The slide isn't. There's a lot of amenities that aren't accessible.

34:55I thought you meant the structure.

35:00And then we've also provided other ones as well at other meetings.

35:04Yeah, sorry, one second. We have provided a lot of this, Chris, to the city other times that they've been here.

35:11There are quite a few examples in other cities as well.

35:14So my question to Stefan is, if this has been provided, then why hasn't that been assessed in this presentation?

35:20Right. So it really hinges on the Park and Rec Master Plan.

35:28This city has over 100 playgrounds and parks across the city.

35:31And the intention of the Park and Rec Master Plan is to have key locations that will be fully wheelchair accessible.

35:41So not every single playground in the city.

35:45So University Village Park, you're going to see an example coming up in December that has a play structure that is fully wheelchair accessible.

35:53There are other ones out there, not currently in Guelph.

35:58Riverside Park was a good example, but it's not 100% wheelchair accessible.

36:03University Village Park will and there will be more to come as part of the Park and Rec Master Plan that will be adopted by the city shortly.

36:14So that answers my question. There's probably more conversation needs to go on after that, but thank you very much for infilling that gap for me.

36:20No problem.

36:21We need to move on because we've got a lot of hands here. So Shannon, you're next. And then we've got Mike real quick.

36:27And then Andrew.

36:30Hello, thank you.

36:32I just want to jump back to, I believe it was Deborah was talking about the platforms and stuff and such.

36:38I'm a caregiver. I'm here as a parent rep.

36:43So this that spike perspective is this one.

36:48The transfer platforms. That's not even close to accessible.

36:53That's fantastic that there's stairs there, but there are children that yes they can maybe transfer out of their wheelchair but guess what most of the kids that transfer out of wheelchairs will still need some sort of device whether or not it's canes or

37:08a gate trainer or a frame walker, any of those things.

37:12So the transfer onto steps basically means that okay, fine, that child can go and crawl up the place structure.

37:21That's not very accessible or clean or respectful.

37:28So I just have those not having a direct consideration that all of these parks instead of them being steps that all of them have the ramps instead so they truly are accessible to all children and caregivers.

37:43I think that needs to start being a little bit more of a consideration into the city planning.

37:49Yes, these are here. I heard there's talk about, you know, picking certain city parks in the city and stuff like that.

37:57That's not always the best way either. I can tell you for a fact we the park area that we live in.

38:05The new park that's just gone in, it went from being a park that my son could somewhat manage on his own to being one that he cannot manage the trails through there are awesome, but the park itself is almost

38:16unusable to him now.

38:18Dovercliffe will be a park that is also accessible to us that will probably be more problematic than anything else.

38:28I'm not going to drive and go take all the way to the other side of the city to go to these accessible parts. So going forward maybe more ramps can be considered instead of steps that that's an automatic thing off the bat.

38:43And key locations, key locations sometimes are not actually key locations.

38:49I'm in West End. So junction onward willow.

38:54None of the parks around here are accessible really at this point. And we've had, I think we're going on our fourth one that's going to be coming into this area.

39:04So I've offered it before I am more than happy to meet with city staff and bring out a wheelchair and Walker and and Kane so you guys can get an idea about what devices some of the children in this community are using.

39:19That offer is forever open if anybody would like to take me up on it.

39:24Yeah, just some considerations for my caregiver point of view. Okay, thank you.

39:29Thanks Shannon.

39:31Alright, we have Andrew or no sorry we have Mike and then Andrew and then Donna and then myself and we have five minutes left so if we can try and be as fast as we can. I'm sorry everyone.

39:43Okay, so for me. Yeah, I've got a problem with the transfer steps like how much independence is an individual child going to have on their own and anytime you transfer that's all risk.

39:56I'm also not I'm with kind of Shannon in the.

40:00regards that like there's just, I don't think enough

40:03consideration was taken in for different mobility devices.

40:08And yeah, there needs to be a lot more things in the city

40:11than just quote key locations.

40:13Like why can't like some of these places,

40:17they just don't look very friendly to a wheelchair user

40:20at all.

40:21Like I just, I'm not seeing a lot of point here,

40:24like for like kind of some of these.

40:25And I just feel like accessibility is kind of an

40:28afterthought, like here's a transfer thing.

40:30Like what, why can't you pop in a ramp?

40:33So I'm not happy with this personally,

40:36but that's just my perspective as a wheelchair user.

40:39Yeah, I don't see any independence.

40:42If I want to go out and play,

40:44yeah, I get to sit there.

40:46So that's my two cents on it.

40:50Thank you, Mike.

40:52All right, Andrew, go ahead.

40:57Yeah, so I understand that like not everything

41:02can be made accessible and that there are budget

41:04restrictions in that, but I'm just, I'm looking here

41:07and I'm not seeing much of anything that's accessible

41:12if you have a mobility aid and rely on that.

41:18That I don't know if there's a way to add ramps

41:23or some more amenities on the ground level.

41:27So that those with mobility aids can still be involved

41:32in some way.

41:34The park at Castlebury, far from perfect,

41:40but at least has a bridge to get someone

41:42to at least some of the amenities.

41:47Because as someone who was a disabled child

41:52and had moments where they were abandoned by friends

41:56who wanted to go and do an activity

41:57that I physically could not do,

42:00it's not a great experience.

42:06Thanks for that, and Andrew, that's great.

42:09Donna, go ahead.

42:13Yes, I know that budget restraints and so forth

42:17on the rubber matting, I wanna speak to the ground level here.

42:22I'm assuming it's some kind of mulch or what, I'm not sure.

42:29Yes, that is the intent for this one.

42:32But my question is about the little block mats

42:36or in front of each slide and so forth.

42:40Are those going to be recessed?

42:42Are they made of rubber?

42:44Are they, will they move?

42:46Are they permanently installed?

42:49Just wondering how useful they would be.

42:53Those are rubber wear mats and they're recessed.

42:55They're just to make sure that as children exit

43:02high movement areas, such as the ends of slides

43:04and swings that the material doesn't move around as much.

43:10So they wouldn't be easier to walk on or wheel on

43:13or and they might move?

43:18They won't move.

43:19But the material on top will move,

43:21it just lessens the amount of movement.

43:24Okay, thank you.

43:27Thanks, Donna.

43:29I very quickly wanna echo what people have said

43:32about wheelchair accessibility as a wheelchair user myself.

43:35For me, the word transfer is usually used for,

43:39like there's a transfer bench in my shower.

43:40I have a transfer aid at my bed,

43:43but transferring out of a wheelchair,

43:45many of us can't move after that.

43:47So it transfers us to a place where we can be stationary

43:50and get something done.

43:51So my transfer bench in my shower transfers me

43:53to a seated position in my shower where I can shower.

43:56It looks like this transfer bench transfers you

43:58to a bottom step where you can do nothing more

44:01than you could already do in your chair.

44:03Additionally, not everyone can lift someone out of a wheelchair.

44:06The people who are with disabled children

44:09might also have disabilities,

44:11things like Ehlers-Danlos syndrome run in families, right?

44:14Someone who has a child in a wheelchair

44:16may not be any more able to lift that child

44:19than that child be able to lift them.

44:21There are also people who will wanna use the play structures

44:23who aren't children and aren't child sized.

44:26So it's just, it's really not,

44:29I don't see those transfer benches as being accessibility.

44:32And I think the city of Guelph joined

44:34the Canadian coalition of inclusive municipalities in,

44:39I wanna say 2021, like January or December of 2020,

44:43and kind of made a statement that we as Guelph care

44:47about equity.

44:48And I think that saying only some of our playgrounds

44:52are gonna be able to be used by disabled kids

44:54who use wheelchairs,

44:57like our commitment as a city to equity

44:59isn't shining through there,

45:01because that's not equity.

45:02A lot of us have a lot less ability to like transit ability

45:07to get across the city, things like that.

45:10So I would really like to encourage the AAC

45:13to pass a motion that recommends that these designs

45:17be reconsidered with more specifically mobility accessibility.

45:22I realized that there's a little section in one of them

45:24where someone can pull up in a wheelchair

45:27and play with the sensory boards,

45:28but that's kind of segregated from the rest of the play area.

45:31It's not inclusive, it's not equity, in my opinion.

45:35So, and Jen, if you can keep it really brief, go ahead.

45:41Absolutely, 30 seconds or less.

45:44What I'm hearing from a lot of the members is independence

45:48and independent play for a variety of age groups.

45:52So a transfer station area, whatever you wanna call it,

45:56that implies somebody can carry someone else

45:59and then there is a lack of independence

46:02and independent play.

46:03So if there could be perhaps part of the conversation,

46:07talk about a review so that wealth residents

46:12with who have mobility needs

46:13or looking for an accessible experience

46:15can participate on more than the swings independently.

46:22Awesome.

46:23So now we really need to use our last couple of minutes

46:25here to craft a motion

46:27because the city's asking for our opinion on this.

46:30They've put forward a recommended motion

46:32that staff have crafted, but we can edit that,

46:35however we'd like.

46:36I'm hoping that someone will put something in there

46:38saying that we don't approve of the designs as they are

46:41and that we recommend some of the changes

46:44that have been brought forward.

46:45But if anybody would like to start crafting a motion.

46:50I'll give that.

46:50I'll give that.

46:51I'll give that.

46:52Okay, that was your one.

46:54Yeah, no problem.

46:55I'm still learning.

46:57Although Chris, you're handing up to.

46:59I would say that the AACE.

47:00Yeah.

47:01Oh, did, am I?

47:01Sorry.

47:02I don't know if Chris had a motion to craft

47:03or another question,

47:04because we don't really have time

47:05for more questions and discussion now.

47:08Yeah, thanks for your question, Lyle.

47:10Yeah, I'd like to say,

47:11I'd like to create a motion saying that

47:12when the city staff review their use of space

47:18and their use of activity spaces within a arc

47:22that they review the AAC's recommendation

47:25and use that down the road.

47:27Because what I've heard is that

47:29this precedent has already been shown,

47:31but it hasn't been shown within this presentation

47:33and that's concerning me.

47:34So what I'd like to see is this go forward as a motion.

47:37I'm sorry if that's overly wordy.

47:42It almost sounds like two separate motions,

47:44like Chris's motion and then a motion that Deborah was.

47:48So Chris, do you want to craft a motion?

47:50We can do more than one motion, right Sarah and Leanne?

47:53Absolutely.

47:54Okay.

47:55So motion to review AAC's recommendations

48:00and use those within the city's play plan.

48:09Then we just need a seconder and any opposed

48:11and then you can also do another motion after that.

48:15We have Deborah seconding.

48:17Thank you, Deborah.

48:19And is anyone opposed to that?

48:25I see no one opposed, so that motion carries.

48:27Thank you so much, Chris.

48:28That's great.

48:29No worries.

48:30And Deborah, go ahead with your motion

48:32that you were going to craft.

48:35I'm going to follow the wording here

48:38that the AAC reviewed the selected designs

48:41for new playgrounds at Dovercliffe Park and Howett Park

48:45and found them lacking in inclusion,

48:50especially for those with mobility impairments

48:58and recommend that the designs be recreated

49:10to ensure the inclusion,

49:12the greatest possible inclusion of people.

49:19I don't know if that's okay.

49:23That sounded awesome to me.

49:25Do we have a seconder for that motion?

49:28All sex like that.

49:30Oh, perfect.

49:31We'll go with Mike.

49:32I heard you first.

49:33And then is anyone opposed?

49:38Oh, I see Jen's hand up.

49:40Are you opposed?

49:41Sorry, it's Jen.

49:42I just have a question about it to make sure

49:46that our intent is clearly understood by city staff.

49:52Are we actually asking for every piece of equipment

49:56to be fully accessible or that there are more accessible

50:03options for the playground equipment overall?

50:07Because it could be interpreted potentially either way,

50:11depending on the current wording that we have.

50:15Sorry to jump in here.

50:16I understand from the federal and the provincial level

50:19that if there's no way to make a structure accessible,

50:23then there should be a proper and appropriate rationale

50:26as to why.

50:27But I believe that the precedent we're setting

50:28is that all new structures that are going into play areas

50:32be reviewed and be made as accessible as possible.

50:35And that's where I'm coming from.

50:37I'm thinking of the accessible as possible piece

50:40because I'm trying to, I absolutely want this to be inclusive.

50:46I'm wondering if somebody from city staff

50:49or park designers who would come in with recommendations

50:53are basically saying, okay, no slides for anybody.

50:57And it could be, I'm wondering if a designer

51:04who isn't terribly creative hears it that way,

51:08that you can't have any slides whatsoever,

51:11no climbing structures for anybody, whatever.

51:15So that's what I'm getting at.

51:17Jen, I hate to cut you off, but just in the interest of time,

51:20I hear you, do you have an amendment to the motion

51:25that you'd like to put forward?

51:25Like if Sarah or Leanne, can you, sorry to cut you off

51:29and because I'm just being mindful of time too,

51:31do you mind reading back the piece?

51:34Liz, do you have?

51:36I think I can do that.

51:37Sure.

51:38I'll grab it here.

51:43Okay, so that the AAC reviewed these selected designs

51:46for the new playgrounds at Dovercliff Park in Howard Park

51:49and found them to be lacking in inclusion.

51:52Sorry, I'm just using the closed captions here

51:55to try and grab it.

51:56Yep, we have lost it here.

52:05Did you grab it there, Liz?

52:07And recommend.

52:09And then we went into to ensure the recommended.

52:16Yeah, much better.

52:17Okay, yeah, sometimes the thing here, Jen,

52:19is it's really, it can be hard for us to grab the motion

52:21on the spot.

52:22And so we staff tend to rewatch the recording

52:26back to grab the specific wording of every motion.

52:31But I have stuff in here and I don't know,

52:36maybe, Stephen, if you wanna let us know

52:39if you are gonna take that motion as accessible as possible

52:42or that everything should be accessible.

52:44I think it's the latter.

52:48Yeah, I mean, so as per the CSA guidelines and regulations,

52:54they do meet NXA and it's H for accessibility.

52:58So, are we talking about accessibility

53:02in terms of mobility?

53:05Because we have to take into account

53:08a lot of different users with a lot of different

53:11mobilities or abilities.

53:15So can we look at adding a ramp?

53:19Possibly.

53:21You know, these designs aren't particularly designed

53:26that way, so it could change a lot of things.

53:31Sorry, exactly.

53:32So I agree with you, I think it's the latter.

53:34Yes, okay.

53:35Okay, so I wonder if people would feel comfortable with us.

53:39This motion did, I think, pass.

53:42If Stephen is coming back at the December meeting,

53:45why don't we see what he brings to that meeting?

53:48And then if we need to amend

53:49and make a more specific motion,

53:51if we come up against a roadblock of him coming

53:53and saying now no slides for anybody,

53:54then we can maybe pass a new motion.

53:57Is that okay?

53:58That's fine, it's pop in here.

54:01Sorry, can I just pop in?

54:03Who's asking to pop in?

54:05Yeah, we really are very over time, so 30 seconds

54:08and then we have to go.

54:09Okay, just really, really quick.

54:10So could it not be to make it more narrow

54:13so you don't have to worry about something

54:14like slides disappearing is that there's always,

54:17most of these plans seem to show

54:19that there's always a climbing straight up part

54:23and then there's steps.

54:24What about each one of those steps needs to be adjusted

54:26to a ramp?

54:27There's no reason that I can't pull it back up right now

54:29because I actually enclosed it, but that other one,

54:32there's no reason that some huge design plan would change

54:36by those steps being made into a straight ramp

54:39as opposed to them being steps.

54:40That's a pretty minor adjustment to be made.

54:44So maybe going forward, that's the thing is that

54:46there needs to be one rampway up where accessible

54:50that it meets everybody's needs,

54:51not just for people with the millability devices,

54:54there are kids that are unstable, there are little kids.

54:57Tell me that a little kid is not gonna be better off

54:59walking up that ramp than on a sharp edge stairs.

55:02So perhaps that could be amended into the motion

55:07so we don't have to worry about the slides disappearing.

55:09I'm so sorry, I hear more people chime in.

55:12We really have to table this now.

55:14Everyone, we have a right, all the members have a right

55:17to like an efficient meeting

55:19and unfortunately we are 15 minutes over now.

55:21So I have to keep us moving,

55:23but if anyone has any further thoughts,

55:26both of those motions passed, correct Sarah?

55:28Yes, they did, but you can follow up with me.

55:30We can email, yeah, we can follow up with Sarah and Leanne

55:33and they can probably even loop in Stefan, I don't know.

55:37But we've gotta move on to the next item

55:39and thank you everyone for the engagement.

55:41I love all the comments.

55:42I hate to have to shut them down, but moving on to the next.

55:46Thank you so much for being here too, Stefan.

55:48But moving on to the next item.

55:51We have the complete streets design guide

55:53and Daniel, I believe is here to present.

55:57And we have a five minute presentation.

55:59Due to how tight we are on time,

56:01I'll probably give you a warning at four minutes

56:03if that's okay, Daniel.

56:09You are muted, Daniel.

56:16Daniel, you're muted.

56:18You're a student, I'm mute.

56:26Hello, sorry, my computer,

56:28when I went to share screen froze for at least 30 seconds.

56:31I heard everything, but I don't think you guys could hear me.

56:33You're good now.

56:34Thanks, you're good now.

56:36Great, so yeah, four minutes,

56:38I'll try to do it in four minutes, five minutes for sure.

56:41So hi everyone, my name is Daniel DiPietro.

56:43I'm a project manager in the transportation planning group.

56:47I'm here to talk about an aspect

56:49of my complete streets design guide project with you

56:52and to recommend a motion from the AAC.

56:57The complete streets design guide

56:58was first presented to the AAC in June of 2023

57:01by my manager, Jennifer Juist.

57:04So just a quick look at the agenda.

57:06We're gonna go over quickly of the AAC engagement

57:12to date on the project.

57:13So from the previous meeting,

57:15then the main reason why I'm here to speak to you about,

57:17which is the proposed pedestrian and cyclist crossing

57:20at a local road.

57:21This is a very specific intersection

57:24that our consultants looking to design.

57:26And so I just wanna get the AAC's input.

57:29It's very high level preliminary design at this moment in time.

57:32And that's why we're here to talk to you.

57:34And then after that, we'll get to project next steps

57:37and a recommended motion.

57:41So AAC engagement to date.

57:45Again, it was brought to you guys in June.

57:49The AAC was presented with the vision, objectives

57:51and recommendations of the complete streets design guide.

57:54What we heard from you,

57:56you're happy to see the design for preferred speed included

57:58in general strong support for the direction

58:00the guide is going in.

58:02Missing from the draft recommendations,

58:04you noted that there was language.

58:07So we're missing language,

58:09acknowledging those who need a car for accessibility purposes

58:12or as mobility advice.

58:14There were questions about any considerations for noise

58:18or sound included for those who are blind

58:21and for the potential of echolocations particularly

58:24particularly as it pertains to the absence of sound

58:28with electric devices.

58:29So that would be at intersections.

58:31So we have taken that into consideration

58:33going forward with the project.

58:35And then at the end of the presentation last time,

58:38you amended the recommended motion as follows.

58:42The AAC supports the draft vision, objectives

58:45and recommendations of the complete streets design guide

58:48with the addition of the prioritization of needs

58:51of people who use cars for accessibility.

58:53So that's where we left off last with you.

58:57Today I'm here to talk about again,

58:59the proposed cyclist and pedestrian crossing

59:01at a local road.

59:03This is a fairly, like I said,

59:06it's a very specific intersection.

59:08It would be implemented at a T

59:10where we have a higher order roads intersecting

59:14with a local road.

59:15So an example would be along say Edinburgh

59:19or Gordon Street.

59:22So we have, we'll start with the design features.

59:26The main reason to propose this design is sidewalk

59:30and cycle track are remain elevated across the street.

59:35So they're at the same elevation which

59:41so it's similar to a driveway which removes the mobility

59:43impacts of ramps at crossings, providing traffic calming

59:47and minimizing risk of ponding in the path of travel.

59:52The intersection on the local side of the road

59:54is stop controlled.

59:56And on the other side where the arterial is,

59:58there's actually a proposed concrete ramp

1:00:01that will designate this like it is a road still,

1:00:04but it is different.

1:00:05They have to be aware when they're

1:00:08trying to make a left turn or a right turn onto the roadway.

1:00:12Ramp, there's ramps leading up from this side

1:00:15to the sidewalk and cycle track on either side.

1:00:17They will be at a max proposed 10% grade,

1:00:21minimum 1.5 meters, they could vary up to five meters

1:00:25depending on the location and the right of way width.

1:00:32Between the cycle track and the sidewalk,

1:00:36there would be a band of tactile pavers

1:00:37to provide delineation between facilities.

1:00:40These also should be color contrasting.

1:00:44And then there's the grade break from the ramp edge

1:00:47along the sidewalk provides a guide for people

1:00:49who are blind to shoreline across the intersection.

1:00:52So this is a general overview of the design we're proposing.

1:00:56Again, it would allow cyclists to,

1:00:59it gives cyclists, pedestrians,

1:01:02people using mobility device the right of way on the road

1:01:06where anyone approaching from the local

1:01:09or from their material will have to be aware

1:01:12of everyone in that situation.

1:01:15And people on the local will have to stop.

1:01:18You have one minute left, sorry about that.

1:01:20Yeah, no problem.

1:01:21So again, this slide is just reiterating

1:01:24what I said talking over the last slide,

1:01:26but just one thing I wanted to note,

1:01:28the proposed design has been shared

1:01:30with CNIB prior to this meeting.

1:01:32We were hoping to have their input

1:01:33before the presentation to the AAC.

1:01:35Due to time constraints,

1:01:36we were unable to finish our consultation with them.

1:01:39We'll provide a memo to the AAC

1:01:40after we've seen CNIB's input into design

1:01:43and I'll distribute it.

1:01:46So next steps, I'll skip ahead.

1:01:51We're in the specific engagement now

1:01:53with the AAC specific engagement October 2023.

1:01:56We're looking to complete this guide by January 2024.

1:02:00It may get pushed a little further

1:02:01than that depending on comments received from AAC

1:02:04from other stakeholders.

1:02:08And then there's a complete streets design guide

1:02:10to council estimated date is Q1 right now,

1:02:12but again, that could be pushed.

1:02:15I hope recommended motion we're looking for

1:02:17is that the AAC supports the intersection crossing design

1:02:20presented on October 17th

1:02:21and or the AAC recommends anything

1:02:26for consideration by staff.

1:02:29Thank you.

1:02:31You did that in exactly five minutes.

1:02:34That was very impressive.

1:02:34Thank you.

1:02:35I hope I wasn't mumbling.

1:02:37That was perfect.

1:02:38No, you were great.

1:02:39And we've mostly looked over the presentation beforehand

1:02:43as well, so that helps.

1:02:44Chris, go ahead.

1:02:46So I just want one point of clarification.

1:02:48Those two yellow structures beside the rampway there

1:02:51beside the driveway,

1:02:52are those tactile wearing indicators?

1:02:54Yes, Chris, I missed out on that in my explanation,

1:02:57but yes, those are tactile indicator strips

1:02:59to allow people with visual impairment

1:03:02to know that they're entering right of way.

1:03:04Great, thank you very much.

1:03:06Yep.

1:03:07And again, not shown on this drawing,

1:03:09but there would be a form of similar tactile delineation

1:03:13between the sidewalk and the psychopath as well

1:03:18for someone walking up the T intersection.

1:03:22That makes sense.

1:03:23Jen, go ahead.

1:03:24Oh, thank you.

1:03:25And Jen, go ahead.

1:03:27No, I was just really appreciate the design with this.

1:03:32I love the idea that cars have to come up

1:03:34to pedestrian level because it does actually work

1:03:36as a speed bump to slow people down.

1:03:39And it also has people turn a corner at more of a 90 degrees

1:03:43to more directly see cyclists and pedestrians

1:03:49and people in mobility devices as they go.

1:03:51I was more curious about,

1:03:55is this design meant to be starting out

1:03:58as like one block looks like this

1:04:00and then the next block looks different?

1:04:01Or is that further down the road

1:04:03that you'd be having that conversation?

1:04:05If it's further down, we can skip it.

1:04:06I know we're over time.

1:04:07Yeah, so that is further down the road right now.

1:04:10It's looking at, again, we're creating a design guide.

1:04:12So this is something that we're looking to kind of start

1:04:15these conversations and have a baseline for future design.

1:04:18But in terms of implementation,

1:04:20that's down the line with different projects.

1:04:23They have to go through the EAA process and all that.

1:04:25So.

1:04:27Just to, I had the very good fortune

1:04:30for the first time to travel in a long time

1:04:32when it was in Amsterdam.

1:04:33And there are many, many of the pedestrian crosswalks

1:04:38where they, a person didn't step down or roll down

1:04:42from a curb to street.

1:04:44They were at the same level the entire time to cross a road.

1:04:47The cars had to come up and go back down

1:04:50after that pedestrian crossing and it was so much safer.

1:04:53So I love seeing this design here.

1:04:56Thank you.

1:05:00Ted, go ahead.

1:05:02I just like to say that I think everything looks really good.

1:05:06I would really be, it would really be helpful

1:05:09if the CNIB got back and said they agree.

1:05:15And after that, I would say go for it.

1:05:20That's it.

1:05:23I can't see if there are any hints in the room there.

1:05:28Okay.

1:05:28My only thought before we move on as well

1:05:31is just where the cars are going over.

1:05:36The sidewalk and the, like where there's the ramp

1:05:39and the cars go over that and go up and down.

1:05:42Is there going to be, is it fairly smooth everywhere

1:05:45or is there an area where it's going to kind of do the

1:05:47boom, boom, that a speed bump would?

1:05:49Because the AAC has been pretty vocal

1:05:52about not liking speed bumps for that reason

1:05:54because it causes pain and further injury

1:05:57and disability to people in cars.

1:05:59So that's a good question.

1:06:01And this design is meant to ease that,

1:06:05it's supposed to elongate that hump

1:06:07so that it's not the speed bump that you feel,

1:06:09not the bump that you feel, but you should be,

1:06:11the car should be driving up and over more slowly

1:06:14to make it more smooth going over.

1:06:16So that's the idea behind this section.

1:06:21Okay. Thank you.

1:06:24Would you mind putting the recommended motion back up?

1:06:26Oh, sorry, Chris, go ahead.

1:06:27I didn't see your hand there.

1:06:29So I was just going to ask if we could get a motion going.

1:06:32Yeah.

1:06:33Would you mind putting the recommended motion back up

1:06:34so we could see if anyone would like to put a motion forward?

1:06:41Would anyone like to craft a motion?

1:06:44Some things I heard were that we are looking for the input

1:06:47of the CNIB to be considered.

1:06:51And then a lot of support, I think I heard.

1:06:53Go ahead, Chris.

1:06:55Yeah. I just like to, if I could,

1:06:56I'd like to move that this plan moved forward

1:06:58with those recommendations that have been provided by the AAC.

1:07:04Can we detail those recommendations

1:07:06just so that they're included in the motion

1:07:08and it provides staff a little bit more clarity?

1:07:11Sure.

1:07:19Maybe I just add as well that Daniel will be following up with me

1:07:23when he does hear back from CNIB.

1:07:24So that is part of the plan as is already,

1:07:27and we will be providing their feedback to the AAC in a memo

1:07:31or some sort of a written document so that you can review that.

1:07:35So that is already part of what we are going to proceed with.

1:07:39So if we want to add in the details that we've heard,

1:07:43which is maybe just, I've heard that ensuring

1:07:47that is a smooth transition for vehicles

1:07:49going over the ramped areas.

1:07:52I'm not sure if a good recommended motion would be

1:07:54that the AAC supports the intersection crossing design

1:07:58presented on October 17th

1:08:00and recommends ensuring it's smooth transition

1:08:05where the ramp is imposed.

1:08:09I'd also say even though it's already part of the plan,

1:08:12it might make sense to add in the part about wanting to hear

1:08:14from CNIB just so when we're looking back at the minutes,

1:08:17months from now, it's in there and we can see it

1:08:20if that's okay, so it's in the motion.

1:08:23Sure.

1:08:24All that sounds good.

1:08:26Okay, so the AAC supports the intersection crossing design

1:08:30presented on October 17th

1:08:32and recommends ensuring a smooth transition

1:08:37where the ramp is imposed

1:08:39and that staff receive feedback from CNIB on the design

1:08:43and provided to the AAC.

1:08:47Yep, that works.

1:08:50Okay, so Chris, and then we've seen the seconder.

1:08:52All second.

1:08:53Okay, Mike's got his hand back.

1:08:54One second.

1:08:56Perfect, does anyone opposed?

1:09:00I see no hands for opposed, so that motion passes.

1:09:04Thank you so much, everyone.

1:09:09Thank you for your time, everyone.

1:09:10Thank you, Daniel.

1:09:11Yeah, thanks for coming.

1:09:12Take care.

1:09:13Awesome.

1:09:18I'm just waiting for my screen reader to catch up.

1:09:24All right, so the next item on the agenda

1:09:25is the seasonal patio program

1:09:28and we have Alex here to discuss that.

1:09:31Alex, you've got five minutes for a staff presentation.

1:09:34I'll probably do the same thing

1:09:35where I remind you at one minute.

1:09:37I apologize for the tight timelines,

1:09:39but we've reviewed the materials in advance.

1:09:42Fabulous, thanks so much.

1:09:43I'm going to try and do better than five minutes

1:09:47so that we can try and get you guys back on track.

1:09:51Let's see.

1:09:55Are you able to see my screen?

1:09:57Yes.

1:09:58Great.

1:09:58Okay, so here we go.

1:10:01You've seen us before,

1:10:02so we'll bypass the agenda.

1:10:04Just a few quick notes on the current season,

1:10:07the pilot program.

1:10:09This was the final year, as I'm sure you all know.

1:10:12We had 50 businesses that participated most

1:10:14in the downtown and October 31st of this year.

1:10:18We'll mark the final day of the pilot program

1:10:21before we transition into the future program

1:10:24that was approved at council.

1:10:26The changes that went to council in July

1:10:29include the 10-year encroachment.

1:10:32So once drawings are approved,

1:10:33those designs will stay the same year over year

1:10:36unless updated or changes are made to the building code

1:10:40for 10 years.

1:10:42A shorter season will keep more parking spaces online

1:10:45and operation staff better able to keep roads

1:10:49and sidewalks clear of snow and repaired

1:10:53in a timely manner for safety and accessibility.

1:10:56The program will now only be for public space.

1:11:00Private patios will still be able to operate.

1:11:02Of course, they'll just go through a regular process

1:11:04of building permitting.

1:11:07We saw an updated fee change to ensure that the program,

1:11:12the costs are covered so that we're not drawing

1:11:15from the tax levy as much.

1:11:18No road closures will be a part of the program

1:11:20except for special events.

1:11:21So that will move forward as this year.

1:11:26And I'll talk about the site inspections on another slide.

1:11:29Just a reminder, report a problem is still active

1:11:32so you can submit any accessibility or built issues

1:11:36through the report a problem map or by phone or email.

1:11:41Site inspections, so just reflecting on site inspections,

1:11:45so thank you to the accessibility services staff

1:11:48who attended both inspections to ensure that drawings

1:11:52and designs matched what was in reality for users.

1:11:57This will continue in the council approved program.

1:12:00So we'll have training and staff, accessibility staff

1:12:04on site for both inspections, one in early season,

1:12:07one in later season.

1:12:09And then of course, every business will receive

1:12:11the patio program accessibility checklist

1:12:14through the application process.

1:12:17Just talking about that patio program accessibility checklist,

1:12:20it is currently publicly available,

1:12:22it was included a part of the package of today's meetings.

1:12:25You folks have seen it before and provided us feedback on it

1:12:27so thank you again for that.

1:12:30They are of course the prioritized areas

1:12:32for business consideration from the building code specifically.

1:12:38But for this feedback session,

1:12:40I wanna focus a bit more on your lived experience

1:12:44and business so that we can better develop business resources

1:12:48for awareness to share with operators

1:12:51as they redesign their patios next year,

1:12:53but also to keep reminding them throughout the season

1:12:56with some reminders and education as we go forward.

1:13:01So as we wrap up to the pilot program,

1:13:05we wanna create those materials

1:13:07and we're just seeking your feedback

1:13:09and your experience about using a patio.

1:13:11If you have heard from others

1:13:13about their experience using a patio,

1:13:15main barriers to accessing seasonal patios

1:13:19or businesses who operate seasonal patios.

1:13:22And then as I said,

1:13:24that'll be incorporated into business education materials

1:13:27and also patio guideline documents as well.

1:13:31So folks always have access to that.

1:13:34And then of course, if there are any feedback

1:13:37or recommendations that the AAC would like to make as a group,

1:13:41I've included a suggested motion there

1:13:44that I'll leave up on the screen.

1:13:46So that's the presentation.

1:13:50Thank you so much.

1:13:51Oh, sorry, I just had my phone go off

1:13:53that you had four minutes.

1:13:55Go ahead, Chris, with your question.

1:13:57We have 15 minutes now for AAC discussion.

1:14:00Right, this will be really brief.

1:14:02So I noticed in the last couple of years,

1:14:04maybe this is, I mean, obviously it's changed.

1:14:07I remember there was a treatment where patios

1:14:12would be at level road grade

1:14:14and there was a ramp going to those.

1:14:16And now I've seen kind of all of them meet that level

1:14:19at the same criteria.

1:14:22All patios should be at curb level.

1:14:25So there's an easy transition.

1:14:26I really enjoy that fact.

1:14:28One thing that I have seen though

1:14:30in my own personal usage is cords

1:14:32and other things that could act as an obstruction to that.

1:14:34So if that could be noted that, you know,

1:14:37if people are putting patios next year,

1:14:39they really observed that fact

1:14:40because it could act as a barrier for someone.

1:14:45Great, thanks, Chris.

1:14:46Mike has a stand up in the room.

1:14:49One thing that I'd like to know,

1:14:52at least in my experience

1:14:53with some of the patios downtown,

1:14:55I find that it's a little hard to turn around

1:14:58if you're in a wheelchair.

1:14:59Like it feels like everything's really kind of crunched in.

1:15:03So if maybe something could be put in the guidelines

1:15:06to say make sure there's enough room

1:15:08so mobility devices have adequate room to turn

1:15:11and that surfaces are at least accessible

1:15:14because not all tables are built equal.

1:15:16So maybe there's like a uniform height sort of thing.

1:15:19I had a quick question follow up to that, Mike.

1:15:21Do you mean specifically patios

1:15:24that have a ramp down to them or platform patios?

1:15:27Yeah, cause like I find with like some of them,

1:15:30there's just, it's really hard to turn

1:15:32and they've got their tables all bunched in so

1:15:34and it's really difficult to use.

1:15:36So like I've had to go away every certain place

1:15:38cause there's just no room to turn.

1:15:40It's accessible to get in,

1:15:42but if that place is packed on a Friday night,

1:15:44I might as well just go elsewhere.

1:15:47Thank you.

1:15:49Great, thanks, Mike.

1:15:51Thank you.

1:15:52Are there any other hands up in the room?

1:15:54There's none online yet.

1:15:57All right, I'll go with my,

1:15:58I have two barriers I wanted to bring to attention.

1:16:01One is that the tables often seem spaced far enough away,

1:16:05but depending on where chair placement is,

1:16:07often I'll get into an area

1:16:08and then someone will be seated at the next table

1:16:10and the next table.

1:16:12And then their chairs are almost touching each other

1:16:14and there's maybe only a foot

1:16:15between the backs of their chairs.

1:16:17So it's not just about how far apart the tables are,

1:16:20it's also about how far apart the chairs will be

1:16:22once there are people in them.

1:16:24And I think that that's been missed.

1:16:28So more attention to that would be great

1:16:31because there are some places where I can't,

1:16:33and it's really awkward to have to ask

1:16:34a bunch of strangers to move

1:16:36so you can go to the bathroom or something.

1:16:37So, and then the other,

1:16:40one of the questions you had on your form was

1:16:42if there were any barriers we wanted staff to be aware of.

1:16:44So this is less for people building the patios

1:16:47and more for city staff.

1:16:49The main barrier that I've recently had

1:16:52with downtown patios is when there were some road closures

1:16:58during the month of September in the evenings

1:17:01on the weekends from Thursday on,

1:17:04the whole downtown area, all the traffic is closed.

1:17:07And I know we do that to try and keep students safe,

1:17:09but I personally hate it

1:17:10because I like to go out with my friends

1:17:12and all of downtown is basically on a hill.

1:17:15And if you're a manual wheelchair user,

1:17:16I can't get dropped off at the barrier of that

1:17:20and wheel to my destination.

1:17:22So there's just an entire month

1:17:23where I just don't get to go do fun things with my friends.

1:17:26And I brought that up to the city like 10 years ago.

1:17:30And back then the person that I spoke to,

1:17:33it was a city counselor, I don't remember which one,

1:17:35but the person that I spoke to was like,

1:17:36oh, well, you know, like disabled people

1:17:39aren't really going out to bars at nine at night.

1:17:41And I was like a 21 year old at the time.

1:17:43I was like, I'm going out to bar.

1:17:44So just road closures and pedestrian only areas

1:17:49are such like a difficult thing for people like me.

1:17:52They mean that I don't get to access that area

1:17:54of my city anymore.

1:17:56And so I just want to hit that point again

1:17:58that like cars are accessibility devices for a lot of us.

1:18:01And anytime you restrict car access to areas.

1:18:04So I know you mentioned there will be no road closures

1:18:06unless there are events,

1:18:08but those events mean I can no longer access downtown.

1:18:11So I would really like to urge the city

1:18:12to close the downtown roads as limited as absolutely possible

1:18:18because it's really, really hard to be excluded like that.

1:18:22Great.

1:18:23And I will pass that on to the groups

1:18:26that also run the safe semester program as well,

1:18:28which is the, that's awesome.

1:18:30That would be great because I was in university age

1:18:33when it was the biggest problem for me

1:18:34trying to meet new friends.

1:18:36It's really hard and students want to be able to go out too.

1:18:39And for some reason, all of a sudden when September ends,

1:18:42we go back to roads, cars on the roads

1:18:44and students know how to use the sidewalks just fine.

1:18:46So I don't love that program, but thank you very much.

1:18:50Andrew, go ahead.

1:18:54Just wanted to get a second voice in there

1:18:58to reiterate what you were saying about the closures

1:19:00and that my mom realized on a cane

1:19:04and has complained a number of times

1:19:06when there have been closures.

1:19:07And she physically cannot walk that far

1:19:10to get to the businesses or the sport.

1:19:13So just thought it was worth getting a second voice in there.

1:19:20Great. Thank you, Andrew.

1:19:21Thank you.

1:19:23I don't see any more hands and we have some time now.

1:19:26We have about five minutes to craft a motion.

1:19:28If anyone would like to,

1:19:30the recommended motion we've got is that the AAC recommends

1:19:33that staff consider education opportunities

1:19:36for the seasonal patio program operators

1:19:38that address things that we would like addressed

1:19:41that were already listed.

1:19:42And then also maybe we could add something in there about

1:19:45that the city remember the importance of cars

1:19:48as accessibility devices

1:19:49and that road closures negatively impact

1:19:52the disabled community or something along those lines.

1:19:55But I can't craft motions.

1:19:56But if anyone else would like to try crafting something

1:19:59feel free.

1:20:00Maybe I'll just note that what we did here in addition to what you had just said there, Laura Lye, about cars as accessibility devices and road closures can be a barrier in some cases is that the chair spacing within the patio can be a challenge or be a barrier.

1:20:18And that the turning space or maneuvering in general within a patio can be difficult or a barrier because of the spacing of tables and or the bottom of a ramp, for example.

1:20:29So I'll just throw those out there and see if there might be a member who might want to add that all into this maybe recommended motion here.

1:20:36This might be a situation where we need two separate motions again one for like these are the things we'd like you to address with operators and then one for we would like the city to remember this about road closures.

1:20:48Looks like Chris has his hand up.

1:20:51Maybe I could graph the first one just dealing with the things that we've heard from the AC, because I think that's really important for us.

1:21:01So what I would like to do.

1:21:04And if you see a motion to review.

1:21:12Art of sorry not articles but recommendations that were raised by a C on October 17 so I believe that would be radiant turning radius is in paths of travel within patios.

1:21:27And as it as another part to that, I don't know if we have to do this in the second one, but making sure that operators are aware of the importance of vehicles or access to that facility to that patio.

1:21:49Is that clear enough or do you want me to redo that.

1:21:52I think that sounds good. The only thing I would make maybe say that seems to be missing and maybe this is part two of the motion is the piece about road closures can be a potential barrier.

1:22:05For sure and as well as that so road closures need to be assessed or need to be viewed as a potential barrier for people with disabilities.

1:22:19Can you read that motion back to us when you get a chance Sarah so that people have a chance to kind of bounce some ideas around.

1:22:24Yes, so bear with me here I think I've got it all. So motion to review the recommendations voiced by the AC on October 17 which includes turning radius is radius and paths of travel within the patios.

1:22:38And making sure that operators are aware of the importance of vehicles for access to the patio spaces.

1:22:45Additionally, that road closures need to be viewed as a potential barrier for people with disabilities.

1:22:52Could we make it clearer that the second part is aimed at the city at city stat like we would like the city to be aware that road closures are because it sounds like we're talking to just operators of patios.

1:23:07So then the motion would read as motion to review the recommendations voiced by the AC on October 17, which includes turning radius and passive travel within the patios and making sure that operators are aware of the importance of vehicles for access to the patios.

1:23:23And then the motion would read as motion to review the recommendations voiced by the AC on October 17, which includes turning radius to the patios.

1:23:32Additionally, the AC would like the city to view road closures or sorry, would like the city.

1:23:41I would like to know that road closures need to be viewed as potential barriers for people with disabilities.

1:23:50That sounds good to me. Lorela, do you have anything you'd like to add?

1:23:54Oh, no, you're muted.

1:23:57I'm sorry, I thought I unmuted myself. I was going to say, yeah, I can't really add anything, but one thing I would like other people to consider maybe adding if they'd like to is not just about road closures being a barrier, but specifically about the lack of car access being a barrier.

1:24:12I know there's been a lot of discussion at the city and within council recently about changing up downtown and making it pedestrian only. And I think that this conversation should include that and that we not have the patio areas become pedestrian only or so it's not so much just about road closures but about cars being accessibility devices and that people need car access to the patio areas.

1:24:36The city needs to know that. I think.

1:24:39So not just road closures are barriers but that pedestrian only areas are barriers for some people as well.

1:24:47I guess I can try to take on that.

1:24:50Right.

1:24:51Okay, yeah, so I'd like to amend to the motion that road closures are sorry pedestrian areas need vehicle access because cars or other cars are specifically mobility devices for some and the city does need to be aware of that so that doesn't need to be

1:25:09considered.

1:25:13Here.

1:25:14Do we have secondary.

1:25:23Can you read us the whole motion now that it's done Sarah just so people know what they're seconding. But yes, I think we had a bunch of people second.

1:25:30Okay.

1:25:32I will do my best here.

1:25:34Sorry.

1:25:37Sorry to make you keep reading it I just want to make sure we understand what we're approving before we approve it.

1:25:47Yeah, I'm just sitting here. She just works with me just slightly.

1:25:52It's a long one.

1:26:03Motion to review the recommendations made by the AC on October 17, including turning turning radius and passive travel within the patios and making sure that operators and the city are aware of the importance of vehicles for access to the patio spaces.

1:26:20Additionally, the AC would like the city to know that road closures need to be viewed as potential barrier for people with disabilities and that pedestrian areas need vehicle access because cars and are specific and other sorry, because cars and other

1:26:38mobility devices.

1:26:41Other vehicles are mobility devices. Thank you. Yes, other vehicles are mobility devices for some and the city needs to be aware of that.

1:26:52Why not?

1:26:54We'll go with that.

1:26:56Who figured that out? Andrew, did you have a question or are you moving it?

1:27:02Or second again.

1:27:05Raised to second.

1:27:08Okay, so we've got Chris as the mover right Chris and Andrew to second.

1:27:14Any opposed? I see none opposed. All right. Thank you so much, Alex. It's great to see you again. Thanks for bearing with us through the all the discussion. That's great.

1:27:28No, thank you so much. You guys. I hope you have a wonderful evening.

1:27:32Thanks you too.

1:27:34All right, the next thing on the agenda is the Earl, Emma to Earl.

1:27:39I'm going to talk about the active transportation bridge and we have Jackie here to discuss that from the city. You've got five minutes Jackie, whenever you're ready.

1:27:49Thank you. I will probably do the thing where I remind you if you have one minute left if that's all right with you.

1:27:54Sure, I will talk very quickly but concisely hopefully.

1:27:59If you could just confirm you can see my screen.

1:28:03We can see it. Yeah.

1:28:05Okay, so hi everybody. I am Jackie K. I am part of the design and construction team at the city of Guelph and I'm the project manager for this project.

1:28:17I'll just give you a brief overview of sort of what's happened since the last time I visited the AC.

1:28:25I'll provide you with project status and talk about some of the next steps and what's coming up.

1:28:31And after my brief presentation, I'll be available for any questions that you may have and hoping that you'll accept a proposed motion.

1:28:41So for those of you, I know it's been a little while since I've been here. So just a bit of an overview. The Emma to Earl active transportation bridge is proposing a pedestrian cycling connection between Emma and Earl street.

1:28:54Just south of Speedvale sorry I didn't quite make it into this image here to link link sort of those two sides of the speed river.

1:29:09A rough sort of timeline events that what's happened since the last time I was at the AC.

1:29:15Well, we hired our consultant in January of this year.

1:29:18Did a brief introduction at the AC in February. And then unfortunately our project was paused while we are waiting for feedback from the Ministry of Environment Conservation and Parks.

1:29:28In late June, we received that approval to proceed so we sort of kickstarted everything back up again in July.

1:29:37So,

1:29:40early in October we opened up the have your say survey seeking input on sort of the overall bridge concepts that I'm going to bring up shortly.

1:29:51And now we're mid October and we're we're here sort of with you today.

1:29:55So the

1:29:58at this stage of the design process we've narrowed it down to two sort of sort of sort of let me try that again sort of overall look and feel for two different types of bridges one being a steel girder bridge and one being a cable staid bridge.

1:30:12So both of these bridges are being proposed to have a concrete deck with a curb on each side with four meter wide width between the curves.

1:30:22So this image here is an example of what the proposed steel girder bridge could look like our consultant has superimposed their design onto a photo of the actual river.

1:30:35This is a simple structure system it has an understated design and arcs above and below the deck.

1:30:42And it frames the river with elegant curving forms and the structure doesn't rise above the height of the handrail to provide unobstructed views of the river valley.

1:30:57This here is a rendering of what the view across the bridge would look like for the the girder bridge.

1:31:06And this is similar to what we did for the the steel girder bridge the stable cave bridge an example of it superimposed on a photo of the river.

1:31:20The bridge creates a bit more of a visual interest for pedestrians and cyclists crossing the bridge its lightweight structure would be built out of weathering steel to help it blend into the natural surroundings and the tower height would be kept within the tree canopy to not overpower things.

1:31:40And this again is another rendering of what it might look like crossing the stable the cable stayed bridge.

1:31:48So we'll be following all the provincial structural and accessible design codes along with the specific design criteria and standards set out by the city of Guelph so the FADM the LIS the tree technical manual so on and so forth.

1:32:04And certainly we are planning on coming back to the AC seeking more detailed input about the accessible elements at this stage we're just sort of at that high level look and feel of the bridge and haven't dove into the details quite yet.

1:32:21So we are planning on coming back.

1:32:24You've got one minute to go.

1:32:26Perfect I got two slides left.

1:32:29So I just wanted to provide you with a brief update of a sort of a few tweaks that we've done in our process since I presented in February.

1:32:39So we've developed two designs we had originally anticipated to present three but after evaluating many different options we brought forward designs that we truly felt were feasible and met sort of some core criteria so we ended up presenting to instead of three.

1:32:57We'd originally planned to seek input from the AC via survey prior to our detailed design however based on the project delays we've run into we've had to address our whole process and sort of compress everything.

1:33:08So that's where we are today.

1:33:12Currently we're seeking that high level input from the public our indigenous communities and obviously the AC as well for the design concept.

1:33:21Once that is all compiled we will pick a preferred option and dive deeper into the detailed design so we're planning to come back.

1:33:30Hopefully early 2024 for more detailed input and obviously a more detailed design.

1:33:39And we're hoping to have the bridge actually completed in 2025.

1:33:46And that brings me to the end of my sort of formal presentation.

1:33:51So thank you again for your time.

1:33:53There's some time set aside for questions and I guess to review the proposed motion as well.

1:34:00Thank you so much.

1:34:02I see a hand up by Chris. Go ahead.

1:34:05Thank you very much.

1:34:06That's a great looking bridge. I have no comments regarding its look or anything like that.

1:34:11I would like to see down the road though is possibly a plan for snow clearing because the fact is that snow can accumulate.

1:34:18It can melt then freeze again causing ice causing a slipping hazard.

1:34:22So that's the only thing that's on the top of my mind now.

1:34:25Also possibly the treatment of access areas with TWSIs, tactile wearing surface indicators.

1:34:32These are just sort of ideas that I had just looking at that initial picture.

1:34:37So that's it for me.

1:34:40Thank you.

1:34:41And Jackie, you're still sharing your screen.

1:34:43Okay. Thank you.

1:34:45No worries. Just letting you know.

1:34:46I moved you guys over.

1:34:47Your emails or something.

1:34:48No, no, no. I moved you guys all over to the bigger screen and I'm writing down notes and everything.

1:34:52So I wasn't even looking up my apologies for that.

1:34:59Perfect. Yeah.

1:35:00So just to quickly comment on that, I'm taking notes here and I totally agree.

1:35:07Those are the between the slipping clearing and snow hazards and tactile warning surfaces.

1:35:12We'll absolutely be incorporated into our future details and brought to the AC for review and comment.

1:35:19Great. Thank you.

1:35:20No problem.

1:35:21Awesome. Deborah, go ahead.

1:35:25Thanks. And I too really like the look of this bridge.

1:35:29But from experiences with pedestrian bridges, for example, and Frederton, the Bilthorne walking bridge,

1:35:39I have some concerns about active transportation pathways and safety, including for folks who are blind or visually impaired,

1:35:52especially with the presence of e-scooters and other electronic things that people may not hear coming up behind them.

1:36:04And I know you're linking up to the other active transportation things, but I hope you will keep in mind that the safety issues and safety and accessibility and use for all is a fairly complex thing to hold in a single line across the waterway.

1:36:27Fair point.

1:36:33But I'm making notes about the e-scooters. That was a great one that wasn't necessarily top of mind, but it's certainly becoming a more talked about topic, especially at the city and for sure within the area.

1:36:46I'll just say it's frightening to me. I bike and to have an e-scooter come behind me. I don't hear them and all of a sudden they're cutting me off. It's really kind of scary.

1:37:02We've got Mike and, yeah, sorry, I'd said that after Deborah. I didn't see his hand before, but so Mike and then Jen.

1:37:11I did. Just to hear off the, when it comes to bridges like this, what are the options for lighting and such?

1:37:20Great question. Definitely lighting will be incorporated into this design. So it's sort of 24 hour, 7 day, 365 days a year sort of use.

1:37:31There will need to be a balance between ensuring we're not over lighting the natural environment around it, but providing enough lighting and safety for those who are using the bridge in the evening.

1:37:46So definitely that will be a component that we will have flushed out a little bit more. So when we do come back, you guys will have a view to what's being proposed and we can certainly dive in deeper.

1:38:00If there are specific things that you sort of know we always tend to get wrong or whatever, by all means feel free to flush those out now and I can make notes so that we come a little bit more prepared with some of that.

1:38:15I just want to add there too, Jackie, if there are any things that you know come to mind for AC members following today's meeting or ever before a meeting in terms of the details and it doesn't feel like the right time in the meeting, please just follow up with me.

1:38:31I'm in contact with all the project managers for all of the different items and initiatives going on here.

1:38:39Awesome. And we had, yeah.

1:38:43And we also, I saw Jen's hand go up and then go down. Jen, did you have a...

1:38:47Sorry. Well, I did. It sounds like more info to follow. So I actually had the same question about lighting. And I'm guessing there's great content about the kind of handrails and forgive me if I was looking away at that when you were sharing how wide the bridge would be.

1:39:06Is it similar to what you'd find for sidewalks so two wheelchair users could pass in opposite directions or go together in tandem as they're going across this beautiful bridge?

1:39:16Right now, oh, sorry. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

1:39:19I'm getting very excited here. I love these conversations because I always learn something new. That's why.

1:39:25Right now we're proposing four meter wide traveled portion of the bridge. The bridge itself might be a little bit wider. And then in regards to handrails and stuff, we haven't decided on placement, height, any of that kind of stuff yet, but certainly we'll need to be incorporated into the design.

1:39:44Awesome.

1:39:45Along with the lighting. Thank you.

1:39:48I saw Leanne's hand and then we probably should move into motion just because we're a little past our time.

1:39:57Yeah, so really quick. So handrails, that type of thing will follow the FADM and the lighting we've already talked about ensuring there's no uplighting. And so the vendor seems to think that more lighting that's shining right on the surface of the bridge will be like the strongest

1:40:15lighting and then overhead lighting would happen as well, but wouldn't be as strong because of the environmental concerns. So some of that stuff has has been mentioned to the vendor already, but we will be following the FADM.

1:40:28Can I just ask one thing? Yeah, I was just going to say go ahead and then we'll move into motion.

1:40:34Rest areas. The little little sitting areas would be really lovely for those who may need a break.

1:40:46And is that you were hoping sort of along the bridge or sort of at the entry and exit of the bridge?

1:40:53Depends how long the bridge is, but the one in Fredericton has little outlets off the beaten trail, but still in the bridge structure.

1:41:09Perfect. We can definitely sort of the furniture for the lack of a better word sort of component hasn't been considered in great deal at this point. Right now we're proposing sort of a long straight bridge without any bump outs.

1:41:29But certainly as we look into the how you get on the bridge where you get off and stuff like that, there is is opportunity to to dive into that a little bit deeper. But right now we were proposing sort of along like one bridge over the river and it's roughly,

1:41:47I'm going to say, I think it's a roughly 100 meters.

1:41:51Okay, thank you so much. We should put a motion forward so that something can be recorded in the minutes. Would anyone like to have a crack at a motion? There's a recommended motion on the screen. You can feel free to add or subtract from it.

1:42:09Maybe I just wanted to add before the crafting of the motion just a reminder that Jackie will be back with this project likely early in 2024 with a more detailed design. And so that will include a lot of the stuff that we heard AC members mentioned like the seating areas, the handrails,

1:42:27TW size or tactile warning strips, those types of things all the detailed design aspects will come back to the AC for comment in the new year.

1:42:40So would anyone like to put forward either the motion on the screen or a motion of their own so that we can have something in the minutes?

1:42:46Yeah, I'll put forward the motion that's on the screen that the AC received the information provided regarding the two design options for the MHURL Act of Transportation Bridge to participate in the Have You Say Pog engagement that is currently available until October 24th and we'll receive more information in early

1:43:052020.

1:43:08I like that addition at the end that we want the city to return on this issue to talk to us in 2024. I think that's cool.

1:43:19Andrew, put their hand out.

1:43:21Oh, Andrew, is that a seconding hand?

1:43:24That's a second.

1:43:26Perfect. Thank you. Is anyone opposed? I see in here none so we can move on. Thank you so much for coming. That was a great presentation.

1:43:36We look forward to seeing you again.

1:43:39We'll see you in the new year.

1:43:41The next item on the agenda is the single use items bylaw update. We heard from the city about this a while back and then we spoke to council and they approved a bunch of motions.

1:43:52So today we have Nicole here to discuss this with us.

1:43:57Great. Thank you. I'm just going to do the four minute warning again for the five minute presentation. Sorry, Nicole.

1:44:04Okay, that sounds good.

1:44:06Okay, I'm sharing my screen. Can you see it?

1:44:09Yeah.

1:44:10Yes. Okay, great. So hi everyone. I'm Nicole Davidson. I'm the waste resources policy analyst for solid waste resources. I'm going to go through the city's response to the five recommendations that the AC presented to council at the September 14th, 2022 meeting regarding the single use items bylaw.

1:44:28So for recommendation one, solid waste resources will continue to engage the community and the AC as it relates to golf single use items reduction strategy and consider feedback received where necessary.

1:44:41It's important to note that this work, especially around plastic straws is being governed by the federal legislation and the city cannot supersede that legislation.

1:44:49The federal government single use plastics prohibition regulations is already enacted and comes into effect on a staggered timeline, which began on December 20th, 2022.

1:44:59For recommendation two, solid waste resources staff work with the city's accessibility staff to develop the media release following council's approval of the single use items bylaw.

1:45:13The media release included the exemptions for sub flexible straws and that a business cannot require a customer to disclose whether they have a disability or a need for a sub flexible straw.

1:45:24And we'll continue to incorporate this messaging into future communications related to the city's SUI reduction strategy where possible.

1:45:33The sub straw band is federal legislation and based on the city's communications guidelines, we don't post content from other people or organizations as though it's our own.

1:45:44If the federal government posts on any of their social media channels, then we can share or repost their message from the city's social channels.

1:45:53And solid waste resources is willing to provide some funding towards communications tactics regarding paper bags with two handles and sub flexible straws that is developed and delivered by Gwelf Barrier free and toward the AC with the assistance of the city's accessibility staff.

1:46:08So for recommendation three, we took the feedback received from the AC regarding alternative bags with two handles and the bylaw requires that reusable shopping bags have two handles and can withstand 100 uses to encourage their durability.

1:46:24We took the feedback received from the AC regarding paper bags with two handles and incorporated this into the SUI reduction strategy promotion and education tactics for businesses.

1:46:34So the text and or images on these tactics refer to paper bags with two handles, including the webpage, the suggested alternatives poster, the information poster and the postcard that was distributed to some businesses prior to the band coming into effect.

1:46:49Additionally, Sarah Cunningworth, the city's accessibility coordinator prepared a letter regarding the importance of paper bags with two handles and provided the letter to local retailers.

1:46:59In regards to recommendation number four, staff reached out to the federal government as the sub straw band is federal legislation to understand if this is possible within their regulations and staff from the federal government have confirmed that the regulations does not allow a municipal government to sell, including to provide for free or subsidize flexible

1:47:22sub flexible straws to its residents.

1:47:26And this leads me to recommendation five, the feedback received from the AC shaped the letter that city staff drafted to the federal government regarding the importance of sub flexible straws being available in restaurants for people with disabilities.

1:47:40City staff have also included advocacy for recommendation four and the letter to the federal government.

1:47:46It's important to note that the regulations is already enacted and the ban on the sale of sub straws will come into effect on December 20 2023.

1:47:56The city's letter to the federal government for recommendations for and five was shared with the AC for review prior to this meeting.

1:48:05So we could discuss that now. So thank you and we know if you have any questions or comments.

1:48:11Awesome. Thank you so much.

1:48:18Chris, go ahead.

1:48:20Yeah, thank you very much for that presentation. I noticed on one of the bullet points that there was a note that said that restaurants and facilities can't provide SCP to a person with a disability but a person with a disability can bring their own.

1:48:34Is that correct?

1:48:36Yes, that's correct.

1:48:40Okay. I just, if you know this information, that's fine. If not, that's cool as well. But I'm just wondering what the, what sort of precedent was used to make that decision?

1:48:49I can't, I couldn't speak to that. It was federal legislation. So that would be a good question for them. I'm sorry.

1:48:56Alright.

1:48:57If you know anything more.

1:48:59I don't know anybody at the federal level. I'm just wondering because accommodations are pretty tricky to get around and there's a duty to accommodate and so on.

1:49:07I just wanted to figure that out, but if you know the information, that's fine as well. So thank you very much for that.

1:49:12Yeah, sorry. I don't. They do have like a sheet on their government of Canada website.

1:49:20That's specifically what is it called. Let me just see.

1:49:24Exceptions for single use plastic flexible straws. So they think that the exemptions that they have allowed are sufficient.

1:49:36But they're not. So I don't know how they, they came to that.

1:49:39Well, I don't mean that it's not. I just want to find out what sort of decision, what sort of basis the decision was made upon. That's all. And I understand completely. You don't have that information. So that's fine.

1:49:47Okay.

1:49:48Alright.

1:49:49Thank you, Chris, for a little bit of background information as well to the members who just joined the AC this year.

1:49:56Last year we were actually working with the city on like pushing for a bylaw that actually required every business to offer single use plastic straws and not by request and we were working through that and it was going fairly well and then the federal legislation came down and completely made that

1:50:12impossible for the city to do.

1:50:14So it's really frustrating.

1:50:16But I don't see any other hands. Does anyone have any more questions or comments?

1:50:24If not, I had a quick question. I might have misheard you but at the beginning I believe you said something about the city won't be the recommendation to that was passed to city city council by the AC was that city work with subject matter experts to develop

1:50:42the city's own components, including putting out information on social media and things like that about the importance of single use plastics and that you may sometimes still see people using single use plastics, and that those are accessibility.

1:50:55Did you say that the city won't be doing that, because it conflicts with federal stuff because they don't see how an education campaign about accessibility in wealth conflicts with the federal it's not like we're saying, you know, the federal

1:51:11government is stupid and wrong and we think that you they should have to let you but that you may see people in a restaurant who brought their own plastic straw and don't harass those people was kind of the intent behind that.

1:51:22I'll let Heather jump in first.

1:51:25Hi I'm Heather Collin with the solid waste resources.

1:51:28Yeah, so it's not that we're not communicating in fact we've already communicated it through the growth barrier and get the present wrong but the goal, or your free well, we provided that the letter is there are drafted to to the business.

1:51:42It was also included in our media release, but I think kind of the point is, we're not the spokesperson on behalf of the federal government so we can incorporate into our language, but we're not.

1:51:54We're not actually banning plastic straws, right so we have included in our communication campaigns and we will going forward, but we're not necessarily creating a new campaign specifically for that.

1:52:07If that makes sense.

1:52:08So, I think that the recommendation brought before counsel that that happened and didn't counsel unanimously vote that that did need to happen. So what happens now with that.

1:52:18Is it just that solid waste is choosing to not follow through with the motion from counsel doing, does that have to go back to counsel I don't know how that works.

1:52:28So we.

1:52:30So I'm saying we have already released it. So it was already included in our media release. It was already included in the letter that we issued to businesses through the wealth barrier free so we helped draft that through Sarah's work.

1:52:45So yeah so it's not like we aren't including it and we wouldn't continue to include it in further campaigns with our single use items.

1:52:54Okay.

1:52:55Okay, thanks I might have misunderstood.

1:52:58And then my other question was about following up with one of the big concerns we had was about removing plastic bags with nice handles for people like me to hang off the back of my wheelchair when we can't carry them.

1:53:11And that a lot of places we're replacing with paper bags that have no handle and that sort of thing.

1:53:16And one of the things we requested from city council that they did pass this as well was that.

1:53:22And you mentioned it today that businesses be required to have bags that have handles that are reinforced and can be used by people with disabilities who have to carry things in different ways.

1:53:33That hasn't been happening in wealth.

1:53:35I've gone to a lot of places a lot of businesses that say you have to bring your own bag, which is not in line with this bylaw so I'm wondering who's following up with businesses and is there somewhere that people can complain about if businesses are not doing that, because

1:53:49there are a lot of businesses that currently, especially fast food restaurants like takeout restaurants have replaced their plastic bags with handles with now fold over brown paper bags.

1:54:01So there are a few stores in Stonewood Mall that have signs up saying you have to bring your own bag. We don't provide bags. There are often places who are like, I'm sorry, we have no bags right now.

1:54:11We're all sold out of them. So, yeah, just wondering about follow through with that.

1:54:16Yeah, so in terms of follow through, you're welcome to contact the city's bylaw department or you can contact and call on myself.

1:54:29And we can follow up with our bylaws to have to go out and proceed with that.

1:54:35And in regards to bags, so businesses can choose to provide alternative bags or not. That's their decision. If they do choose to provide reusable bags, they are required to have two handles. That's in the bylaw.

1:54:47For paper bags, it's strongly encouraged, but we had done engagement with businesses that are in our community, including national and international chains.

1:54:58And the feedback we received was that they have no say over the types of bags that they provide because again, they're national or international.

1:55:06So it's hard to impose a bylaw when the feedback we've received is that there's businesses in the community who can't meet that bylaw.

1:55:16So I'm not sure how we would impose appropriate consequences when we've when that's the feedback we've received. And that information was shared with council in that September 14th report and they chose to pass the SUI bylaw without any amendment.

1:55:30Okay, because yeah, what I understood at the meeting that I delegated on behalf of the AAC, they said that they were going to require everywhere to have alternative bags.

1:55:45And so that's changed now.

1:55:49So the motion that was passed by council said that council create a bylaw that requires businesses to provide alternative bags that have two reinforced handles for the accessibility reasons.

1:56:04So I'm not sure if something changed there and I just wasn't at that council meeting.

1:56:11So I can jump in here for a second. I think that from my understanding, I believe that the decision was made before the federal decision was appointed and that federal decision sort of has precedent over regions.

1:56:26So isn't that it?

1:56:27This is I'm talking about something that happened after that federal law was passed. This is a council meeting where council passed this after that. Yeah.

1:56:35So yeah, I'm not sure what we do about that because I know that council, like, we can put forth bylaws where we're finding people who don't follow our bylaws and if, for example, American Eagle is not following our bylaws, not that American Eagle actually is right now.

1:56:51That's a bad example. I just used to work there and when I used to work there, I know that if we were getting fined by the city, we could call corporate and be like we keep getting fined by the city and they would fix that problem, even though they're international and even though they're a huge,

1:57:04you know, organization. So I'm just not sure where that all ... how that all works, if council passed that motion and then now we're saying we aren't going to do it. I just want to make sure there's some kind of accountability there because this is not in line with the AAC's original recommendations for our delegation to council or what council said that night when we delegated.

1:57:23Yes, so in terms of like the background. So we did include the messaging from the AACC and that council report that came with the bylaw amendment.

1:57:33So they had the information and we did talk to the city's legal counsel about what or not we can and cannot

1:57:43Legalize I guess get the right words

1:57:45But yeah, so counsel had all that information and didn't like so if they wanted to change the wording of the bylaw

1:57:54That is the night that they needed to change the bylaw

1:57:57So they passed it without amendment, right?

1:58:00So they would have had to change the bylaw at that time

1:58:03I can't speak on behalf of counsel, but they had the information of why they would or would not choose to do that

1:58:11Okay, thank you. I not blaming anyone here

1:58:13I'm just trying to figure out where the decision was changed that from the last time I heard from counsel. Thank you

1:58:23Would anyone like to craft a motion?

1:58:27We can craft a motion to receive the information and that we

1:58:33Recommend that a letter be

1:58:36drafted by the city

1:58:38Perhaps we recommend that a letter be drafted by the city and then brought to the AAC I

1:58:43Think we already drafted the letter and presented it to the AAC

1:58:46So we're looking for you know that you've received it and then you're recommending passing it to

1:58:52So the federal government Sarah, when did you send that to us? I didn't see it

1:58:56Okay, so in the pack

1:58:59Yeah, it's included in the package

1:59:01That's with this patient as well. So there is a recommended motion on the screen there

1:59:08Another option could be that if folks have not if there are members that you know

1:59:12Haven't had a chance to review that drafted letter that

1:59:16We just change up the recommended motion that slightly that we continue with this and that the AAC

1:59:22Recommend the letter drafted by the city be distributed

1:59:26And maybe we add a date to the end so that we can have a little bit of time there for AAC members to review it for

1:59:33a couple more days

1:59:35And then provide their comment through me

1:59:38via email or phone

1:59:40Is an option

1:59:41Okay, you have one minute left for the meeting. So we need a motion to extend the meeting

1:59:47Would anyone like to move to extend the meeting?

1:59:50Uh, I see Deborah's hand. Is that a motion?

1:59:53By five minutes. I'm happy to make that motion, but I was just going to make a quick comment on we have to very quickly do this

2:00:00I'm so sorry. Can we get a seconder to extend the meeting? We've got Andrew. Okay, perfect.

2:00:07Is anyone opposed to extending the meeting by five minutes?

2:00:11No, not opposed. All right. And actually we had Chris before you, Deborah. Sorry about that.

2:00:16Chris, go ahead. And then. So I just thought that there's a, you know, there might be a line

2:00:21of communication that hadn't yet struck the federal government in terms of the importance of applying

2:00:26the lens of accommodation to this. And I think that they should really be able to review

2:00:32Canada's precedent with, in terms of accommodation when people ask for a reasonable accommodation.

2:00:39So whatever that looks like, you could add that to the motion, but I think that should be added.

2:00:47And go ahead, Deborah. We've got a couple minutes. I just had a quick comment on the letter. I did

2:00:53read it fairly carefully and it wasn't clear to me what was from the AAC and what wasn't from the AAC.

2:01:01So there are parts of it that have a quotation and the quotation, there's never a second quotation

2:01:07mark. So it's not clear to me what it, because it's really speaking on our behalf. And so I would

2:01:19like to ask that the drafters, that we understand what we're committing ourselves to and that

2:01:27this is in line with what we said previously. So there is another clarifying point just before,

2:01:35sorry. We, as the AAC, had specifically asked the city to craft this motion because we wanted

2:01:42it to go to the federal government from our municipal government, not from the AAC, because

2:01:46we thought it coming from the municipal government itself would have more weight. And also we are

2:01:52not getting paid to do this extra work and the city is able to do that. So that's a thing that we

2:01:59had specifically requested when we went before council was that this come from the city, not from

2:02:03the AAC. So there are quotations in there. There is a beginning and an end. I just want to point

2:02:12as long as we have the same version. And it is directly from Chareroot's delegation at the

2:02:19September 14th meeting. Can you tell me where the end is? Because I don't see it.

2:02:26It's after, yep, it is, there are also financial implications resulting. It's after that paragraph.

2:02:37And this is the final bullet point before the third paragraph, third last paragraph.

2:02:45Maybe I'll just say I'm never on my seat. Oh my goodness. Okay. So that's the whole thing is a

2:02:52direct quote. That's not entirely clear. I see it now, but I would never have found that. So

2:02:58without your help. So thank you. So yeah, we're happy to hear feedback and we can,

2:03:04yeah, we can make that more clear. We can indent the whole thing or something just to make the,

2:03:09but happy to hear feedback from the committee members. Right. A piece of my concern is that

2:03:14this is a direct quote and I had understood that it was going to be not simply telling them what

2:03:20we said, but having the city say something itself. But so I just want the AAC to understand

2:03:29that this is really just basically a quote of what Cherute submitted before.

2:03:37Yes. In the interest of time, since we only have two minutes left, I can provide a written copy of

2:03:44the delegation I made to City Hall on behalf of the AAC to Sarah. And she can send that out as

2:03:49well for further context to everyone from that meeting last year. But we should probably put

2:03:56a motion forward to maybe say that we are going to connect through Sarah to give

2:04:03our feedback on this letter because I think there are more people with feedback. Go ahead,

2:04:06Chris. I'll do it. I'll put the motion because you have one minute left. Thank you. Thank you, Chris.

2:04:13Okay. So what you just said, Lorelai, we can move with that. Right. That's my motion. That we

2:04:19move to receive the information presented and that we recommend that the letter be reviewed by the AAC

2:04:25and that the staff liaison will liaise with the city on our behalf. Yep. Thank you. Is there a

2:04:36seconder then? I will. Perfect. And is anyone opposed? Elizabeth has her hand up as well. Oh,

2:04:46did she put it down? We don't really have time for more conversation about it. No, I was doing that

2:04:51for a second, but okay, perfect. We can email Leigh Ann and Sarah with anything else. Unfortunately,

2:04:56we have to adjourn at 5.05, so we'll have to move to the final

2:05:02piece of the agenda to the next meeting or maybe through an email, Sarah. Could you do that?

2:05:07Yeah, I can just gather it with my same item next in December, but we just need to see if there are

2:05:12any opposed on that last one. Yeah, sorry. Any opposed? I thought we'd see none. Elizabeth's

2:05:19hand was up, but it was none opposed. Yeah. No one's opposed. Yeah. Great.

2:05:26You need a motion to adjourn. Oh, yeah, because we went over, we need a motion to adjourn. Would

2:05:31anyone like to move to adjourn? I don't mind. I should not. I'm on the way. We have a motion

2:05:36from Chris and seconded by Elizabeth. No one can oppose a motion to adjourn, right? So perfect.

2:05:43Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thanks, everyone. So much. Thank you. Have a good afternoon, guys.

2:05:49Bye-bye. Bye-bye.