Planning Advisory Committee

0:01Sorry, I lost my agenda here. Give me a moment calling the meeting order at.

0:07Alright, so I'm going to start with the indigenous territorial acknowledgement.

0:23Bear with me, please everyone. This is my first time through this one. So.

0:29As we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege.

0:33To live and work in Guelph, a city built over rich indigenous histories.

0:38We are guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land, the people who live here today.

0:44And the generations to come if our actions today can move us toward reconciliation. We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

0:53This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time.

1:00But more specifically, the Attawan, Derang and the Haudenosaunee.

1:07This land is held as the tree lands and territory within the Mississaugas of the credit First Nation.

1:13Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track and is part of a long established traditional hunting ground for the 6 nations of the Grand River.

1:21Many First Nations, Inuit and Métis people who have come from across Turtle Island called Guelph home today.

1:30Alright, moving on to the next item.

1:35Disclosure, pecuniary interest and general nature thereof.

1:39Any disclosures that the committee would like to make for today?

1:50Seeing none and hearing none.

1:55Alright, thank you.

1:59Approval of minutes.

2:01Did everyone have a chance to look at the minutes?

2:05Uh, briefly or in detail, um, any adjustments?

2:10Uh, challenges with the minutes from our last meeting.

2:15Lisa, my name is spelled incorrectly in within the text of the minutes. It's M. A. C.

2:29Okay, thank you, Lisa. Thank you.

2:40Any other challenges, concerns with the minutes?

2:44I don't see or hear any.

2:49Alright, can I get a motion from the committee to approve the minutes of our last meeting?

2:58Or that the minutes of the recommended motion here is that the minutes from the May 10th, 2023 meeting of the planning advisory committee be approved.

3:07Looking for a committee member to move that.

3:10Lisa, second, I had Justin 1st.

3:18Um, any discussion.

3:23With that motion problems with it.

3:28Seeing none, um, anyone opposed to the passage of the motion.

3:38Seeing none.

3:40Alright, motion passed moving into the committee items.

3:45Uh, so the 1st item for tonight is state of housing and golf.

3:51The summary of the housing affordability strategy. So, uh, I'm going to call Jason and to take us through the presentation.

4:03Great. Hi, everyone. Uh, I remember you all from May when I was last year. So, um, it's good to see everyone again. And yes, I'm here with my colleague, Jason.

4:14And we are just going to give you a really.

4:18Relatively brief presentation today about the state of housing reports. So thank you so much for giving up some of your time this evening. So I'm just going to spend about 2 to 4 minutes on a couple of the.

4:30Introductory slides and then I'm going to I'm going to hand it over to Jason who's done the bulk of the work on the state of housing report that provides some of the.

4:37Some of the details and some of the results.

4:39So, regarding the housing, next slide. Thanks, Jason regarding the housing affordability strategy when I was last year in May, I provided an early overview of the phases of the strategy and the general timeline.

4:54And so, since then, we formally initiated the strategy development at the September 12th council planning meeting and we've committed to having a recommended and I'm going to be calling it the has.

5:05The recommended has before council by the end of 2024.

5:09So, as a reminder, the goal of the has is to identify actions and advocacy and partnership approaches to address private market housing gaps. And I'll get to the private market market focus again in a minute.

5:24In terms of the overall goal, there are also 3 complementary goals that are included and they are enabling a greater supply and mix of housing.

5:33Maximizing and protecting the use of existing housing resulting in a greater supply of affordable housing and then that 3rd goal is enhancing capacity awareness and supports for affordable housing throughout the community.

5:45Next slide please.

5:48So, state of housing and Guelph really it's the foundational report for the development of the housing affordability strategy since it does present that statistical analysis of the demographic.

6:01And the economic and the housing trends.

6:03So, the last report that was produced for a state of housing was 2014, 15. So, a lot has changed since then, but Jason may actually indicate that.

6:15Not a lot may have actually changed as well. So, what this report does or what the work through state of housing does is it does identify the gaps in our housing needs.

6:26And the state of housing report also identifies the key issues regarding where improvements can be made to advance the city's target for affordable rental and ownership housing.

6:37Next slide please. So, before we move through the presentation anymore, I just wanted to bring back this image again of the housing continuum as a reminder of where the housing affordability strategy fits.

6:52So, the city is primarily if we primarily facilitate the right to the right of the pink line. So, we do some affordable rental. We do market rental.

7:03Affordable home ownership and then into sort of full ownership market ownership.

7:08So, this is where we have been provided the most legislative jurisdiction. So, we do provide the conditions or we facilitate the conditions for which developers can build a range in next of homes.

7:19What we can't do is for shovels to get into the ground. We don't have any say over how much homes are bought and sold for on the open market.

7:30The county as our service manager, they're primarily responsible for sort of the left of that pink line on the housing continuum. So, they are responsible for supplying either through

7:41building their own or partnering with others. The housing that's on that left side of the housing continuum.

7:49So, next slide please. So, also important to touch on before moving through the results of the state of housing report is the definition of affordable housing. And we did talk about this in May.

8:02And since then, there's been some movement, but we are still waiting on a final provincial policy statement or planning policy statement, whatever they choose to call it.

8:11Where we can really then all see how the province defines affordable housing outside of development charges collect.

8:19So, for the state of housing report, the definition that aligns with the city's official plan.

8:26And the PPS was used and so for that, that means an income based definition for ownership and a market based definition for rental.

8:34So, for ownership, that means housing is considered affordable that costs less than 30% of households before tax income for those are in the load of moderate income brackets.

8:44And then for rental and wealth, affordable is defined as a unit for which the rent is at or below the average market rent.

8:53Next slide please. So, based on that definition from the previous slide for affordable housing, we can derive benchmarks for what is considered affordable and wealth again from a home ownership and rental perspectives.

9:08So, in 2023 $429,016 is what was considered the affordable benchmark for ownership.

9:16While $1434 per month is the affordability benchmark for rental and wealth.

9:25So, with that now, I'd like to pass over the next stretch of the presentation to Jason, who will then go over some of the specific findings and and and how that what that may mean going forward in terms of the housing affordability strategy.

9:41Alright, thanks Kushla. So, through the state of housing report five key issues emerged that really impact housing affordability and golf.

9:49And I'll provide you with a brief overview of each of the key issues and then I'll dive into them in further detail on subsequent slides.

9:56So, the first issue is that golf is not meeting its affordable housing targets.

10:01Secondly, there is a shortage of bachelor and one bedroom units in golf.

10:06And there's also a lack of supply of purpose built primary rental units.

10:10And within the secondary market rental, although there are more affordable rental options, these rental units do lack stability.

10:18Now, the secondary rental market are those rentals that are not part of the purpose built rentals.

10:24Such as rent and single and semi-detached dwellings as well as rental condominium units.

10:31And supply of lastly the supply of non-market housing, which are government subsidized units are not meeting demand.

10:40So currently we target 30% of all newly constructed units to be sold or rented each year below those affordable benchmarks that Kushla gave an overview of.

10:50And this target is further broken down by ownership and rentals targeting 25% of ownership units to be affordable.

10:581% affordable primary rental units and 4% affordable secondary rental units, which does include additional dwelling units such as basement apartments as well.

11:10So last year, only 23% of all new units that were constructed in golf were sold below the affordable benchmark price.

11:17Where we target 25%. And it was the 1st year that we did not meet our affordability target for home ownership.

11:25Over within the secondary rental market last year, approximately 11% of all new units constructed were rented below the affordable benchmark within that secondary rental market.

11:34And this does exceed that target of 4%.

11:37However, the primary rental target of 1%, which we do report on every 5 years was not achieved. It was last reported on in 2020.

11:47At that time, there were no new primary rental units that were being rented below the affordable rental benchmark price.

11:54However, since 2020, several new supportive housing projects and an affordable seniors rental development have been constructed.

12:01And these developments have units that are being rented below the affordable rental bench, rental housing benchmark.

12:07And these new rental units represent approximately 5% of all the units that were constructed between 2020 and 2022.

12:16And the details of that will be included in the 2025 growth management and affordable monitoring housing report.

12:25The 2nd factor impacting housing affordability is a shortage of bachelor and 1 bedroom units within 12.

12:31And 1 person households are 1 of the fastest growing household types within 12 according to statistics Canada and comprising approximately 20% of all households.

12:42Now among renter households, 40% of those households are 1 person households and seniors age 65 years or older, comprise the largest segment of the population making up 1 person households.

12:58And according to the national occupancy standards, which is a measure of the number of bedrooms that are required to suitably house occupants.

13:05Golf has a current shortfall of 21,000 bachelor and 1 bedroom units.

13:10And this suggests that the majority of 1 bedroom households in golf are over housed.

13:14Now that means that there may be a 1 person living in a 2 or 3 bedroom unit, for example.

13:20And moving forward, the demand for smaller units will increase with the growth of 1 person households resulting from the aging population and reduced birth rates.

13:29A third issue that's emerged is the lack of supply of new premier rental housing.

13:36At 1.5%, golf has one of the lowest vacancy rates across Canada.

13:42And a healthy vacancy rate is considered to be 3% or just over 3%.

13:49And the vacancy rate in golf has remained below 3% since 2011.

13:54Now low vacancy rates are an issue because they drive competition resulting in higher rental prices.

14:01And when home ownership becomes increasing or unaffordable as it has recently, demands for rentals increase.

14:07And with an aging population and decline in birth rates, international migration is expected to be significant population driver moving forward in golf.

14:16And those newcomers to Canada are more inclined to rent their units, which will further boost that rental demand.

14:26Now, since 2015, nearly 1500 new purpose built rental units have been constructed in golf.

14:31This following a period of approximately 40 years where we didn't really build any purpose built rental units.

14:37However, the majority of those new units are being rented above the affordable rental benchmark price.

14:42Now, as mentioned earlier, we have constructed several new supportive housing units and an affordable seniors rental building,

14:49which will help with affordable issue, affordability issues for some of those of the lowest qualifying income earners.

14:56Now that said, the demand for new rental units continues to outpace the supply, especially within the short term.

15:03And new measures that were introduced recently by the provincial and federal government to ease the tax burden on the construction of the new rental buildings may actually help to increase the rent.

15:12The fourth key issue that's impacting housing, housing affordability is the secondary rental market, which does not offer the same level of stability as the primary rental market.

15:24And as I explained earlier, the secondary rental market consists of those rentals that are not purpose built, such as single and semi detached dwellings and condominium units that are rented.

15:33And this does also include those additional dwelling units such as basement apartments.

15:36Now, these types of rental units are considered temporary as they are subject to sale where the new owners may decide to occupy the unit, which would affect the current tenants.

15:47They may also, the current owners may also affect the current tenants to allow the owners immediate family to occupy the unit.

15:55Or in the case of a basement apartment, it may just be converted back into the principal dwelling, which does reduce the overall rental stock within 12.

16:04And adding to that, when tenants are forced to move into a new rental unit, they are generally subject to the higher market rates.

16:12Now, obtaining reliable data on the secondary rental market in Guelph is very challenging.

16:20A CMHC does not survey the secondary rental market like they do for the primary rental market.

16:25However, we do conduct a survey of additional dwelling units approximately every five years, which does focus on the rental rental market.

16:33And that last survey, that survey was last conducted in 2019.

16:37And the next one is expected to be conducted in early 2024.

16:41Now, in Guelph, 34% of all households are renter households and approximately 54% of those households live within a secondary rental unit.

16:53Now, Guelph has seen a recent increase in the number of additional dwelling units being created with an average of 193.

17:00Created over the last 10 years, per year over the last 10 years.

17:06And as of October, approximately 3,800 additional dwelling units have been registered within Guelph.

17:13Now, in terms of affordability, approximately 1 in 4 renter households in Guelph are spending more than 30% of their household income on shelter costs.

17:21On the case of owner households, that's only 1 in 10.

17:24The additional dwelling units are typically rented below the affordable rental benchmark, which can help to ease some of those affordability issues in Guelph.

17:36At the average rental rate when last surveyed, those additional dwelling units was approximately $1,100 in 2019, which was below the affordable rental benchmark for that year.

17:48And it is the creation of these additional dwelling units that do does help us achieve the affordable secondary rental market.

17:56And we did exceed this target last year for approximately 11% of all the units were being rented below that affordable rental benchmark.

18:04The last key issue affecting affordability in Guelph is a lack of creation of government funded housing that is not keeping pace with demand.

18:15Now, these types of units help the lowest income individuals in our community who cannot afford market rates to find shelter.

18:23These types of units include emergency shelters, transitional housing units, supportive housing units, rent gear to income units, and subsidized rental housing.

18:34The County of Wellington administers these types of units, but the city of Guelph does act as a joint funding contributor with the county.

18:41In total, the non-market housing or the government subsidized housing in Guelph represents approximately 4% of our existing housing stock.

18:51And this is broken down by the number of units as listed on this slide, which does show that the vast majority of those units or those rent gear to income units were approximately 2,100 units in Guelph or those rent gear to income.

19:01The demand for those non-market housing units is increasing quite substantially over the past few years with housing becoming increasingly unaffordable.

19:14And this is evidenced by emergency shelter usage for housing and housing.

19:18And this is evidenced by the number of units that have been subsidized over the last few years with housing becoming increasingly unaffordable.

19:26And this is evidenced by emergency shelter usage for homeless individuals, which has increased 102% since 2018.

19:34And over that same period, the average length of stay has increased from 25 days to 55 days.

19:44Now, the County of Wellington does maintain a centralized waiting list, which is a list that's for individuals and households that are waiting for a subsidized unit.

19:49And the number of households on that list that are waiting for that non-market unit has increased 60% since 2019.

19:57And according to the County of Wellington, the average current wait time for a household to be housed on that wait list is five years with some households waiting up to eight years to be put into a subsidized unit.

20:12So in summary, to begin addressing the affordable issues in Guelph through the housing affordability strategy, we will need to review our affordable housing targets and the methods for setting those benchmarks.

20:23We'll also need to look at increasing the supply of our primary rental units to meet the increased demand as housing becomes increasingly unaffordable.

20:34We'll also need to consider smaller units in Guelph to meet the increased demand as overall household sizes continue to decrease.

20:42Additional dwelling units will continue to be needed to provide that more accessible affordable housing options to lower income errors,

20:48especially those who are waiting to be housed within a subsidized unit.

20:55And lastly, more supportive and subsidized housing will be needed in Guelph to meet the needs of the lower income individuals and households within the city.

21:05Now I'll pass things back over to Kushla. We'll take us through the next steps for the housing affordability strategy and then she will lead us into a discussion.

21:13Great. Thank you, Jason. So in terms of the next steps for the overall housing affordability strategy, we will be, what I don't have on here is actually we will be going to the December 12th council planning meeting.

21:28Basically, with a very similar presentation and provide the results to our council of the state of housing report.

21:36So we would like to include any feedback or comments that you have on what we've presented here, but I'll get to that in a second.

21:44Beyond December 12th, we will also be launching a have your say page by mid January and that will include the background information, the context, the steps, the timeline for the overall housing affordability strategy.

21:58And it will also have any consultation or engagement work that we're doing, including those surveys that Jason mentioned through in his presentation in his slides.

22:11We'll also be continuing some of the gentle density work, which is under the umbrella of the housing affordability strategy.

22:18We were directed at the October 17th council meeting to prepare a draft zoning bylaw amendment regarding 4 units on low residential walks within Guelph. So we are currently working on that.

22:30And we anticipate coming forward with.

22:33Doing public engagement on that in mid Q Q 1 and then coming to council with a decision report by the end of Q 2. So June.

22:45Q 2 on that.

22:47We'll also be continuing to do some more gentle density work. So looking at not only 4 units, but then seeing what the capacity is in Guelph for looking at 5 plus units as well unload.

23:00Density residential lots in Guelph.

23:04And that work will be conducted concurrently with the housing affordability strategy coming together at the end of 2024.

23:11So we will continue to work with phases 2 through 5 of the housing affordability strategy over 2024. So that will include that information gathering.

23:20The identification of goals, targets and actions as well as drafting the actual recommended housing affordability strategy.

23:29So there will be continuous public engagement on that. We will also be setting up a housing affordability focus group.

23:37Which will be comprised of members of the public agencies stakeholders, County Wellington, for example, and that we will be setting that up.

23:47Fairly shortly. And again, having probably 6 meetings across the rest of 2024 to seek feedback as well on the housing affordability.

23:58So next slide please.

24:01So with that, again, we would really like to thank you so much for for taking the time to to listen to some of the results from the state of housing report in Guelph.

24:12And then yeah, if you do have any comments or do you have any questions about how we could advance some of the recommendations or.

24:20If you think of some recommendations that we should be really focusing in on in terms of when we continue to craft the housing affordability strategy.

24:28We would be, we would like to hear any thoughts or feedback that you have this evening that we then can include in the December 12th report that goes to council.

24:39So thanks again.

24:41Thanks. Thanks Jason.

24:46Any questions or comments from the committee.

25:02Seeing none. Maria.

25:04I'm assuming your camera doesn't work. I'm going to check in with you from time to time. Yeah, I can't. Can you hear me?

25:12Yep. Yep.

25:13Okay, I can't get it going. I've been trying so I'm sorry it's not that I want to hide.

25:21No, no, no problem at all. I just want to make sure that I keep checking in with you if you don't hear from me. Just feel free to speak out and let us know.

25:33Okay, well, thank you for checking in. I do have a question then.

25:37I was too embarrassed to actually see if you can see me or hear me. So thank you.

25:44I have a question. So, in the minutes of our last meeting, there were a number of comments made by this committee.

25:56How are those given to council like council doesn't read our minutes. Are those comments that we provided.

26:06Are they going to form part of this report that is going to council.

26:14So what happened with those comments where that they and minutes actually is in the report that.

26:23Can't remember the exact date, but in the in the report regarding the project initiation, we did include a summary of the comments that we received from this, this committee, as well as a link to the minutes for council.

26:42And the same will be done with whatever feedback we receive today. If any, we will also include those within the December 12 reports, staff report and a link to the minutes as well.

26:55Thank you.

27:02Thanks, Maria. Any other questions or comments from the committee? All right, I'm seeing none. I have a question though.

27:18The, so on the 1st slide, we're talking about the overall goal of the strategy to identify actions advocacy partnership approaches to address private market.

27:33Housing gaps.

27:37What do we have in mind in terms of solutions that we're hoping this strategy comes up with obviously there are policy oriented approaches. Some of which you've mentioned.

27:49And a 4.

27:52And 5 plus unit.

27:54Gentle density work. Any other.

27:58Oh, there's Maria. Any other ideas or early thoughts on the types of things.

28:06That we might see come up in the strategy.

28:09Well, I think a lot of that.

28:14Generally, it would be sort of any kind of financial support that we could provide it would again, policy is generally the biggest area where we have the most.

28:27Jurisdiction or where we can work best.

28:30I think a lot of it too will come from what feedback that we hear so from from our stakeholders and agencies and planning advisory committee. So any, any solutions there.

28:44We'll come from discussions over time. So, so in terms of where we can do the most is typically in policy advocacy and partnerships, but.

28:55Yeah, if it's some creative solutions come out or creative ideas that we can look into over the next little while we would be happy to do that through any of the recommendations.

29:07Thank you.

29:11Final call for questions or comments.

29:15Yep, Lisa.

29:17I guess my question sort of arose from your answer to the last question.

29:22Um, I keep seeing in various that in previous articles, and when we had a newspaper discussions about co housing and I'm just, it seems to me that out there's people who are attempting to sort of do a cooperative model of housing.

29:46Those projects seem to take a long time to get off the ground and I'm just wondering if that would be one of the solutions.

29:56That there was an easier path to, to have a co housing or cooperative housing type development.

30:07Um, with some of those seniors that are living in great big three and four bedroom houses.

30:15And it's not an income barrier. It's just a change barrier or a, a desire to not live in a traditional apartment style, but to have more of the community aspect that they get when they live in, in a neighborhood.

30:36So that's a great question and that is, those are some of the things that we would be looking into it throughout that for the housing affordability strategy in terms of, are there any barriers.

30:48To coming up with innovative new.

30:53Less traditional ways of, of housing people.

30:58And how can the city help within the parameters that we have to move that further to move that along.

31:05Yeah, those are some of the things that we could be looking at and that we are looking to try and facilitate within the scope that we have.

31:25Any other questions. If not, I have another 1.

31:30The, oh, sorry, I'm going to go to Justin 1st before me.

31:37Excuse me. Thank you.

31:40I know you showed a pretty good proportion of ownership.

31:46Newly constructed units, getting that affordable.

31:50Benchmark, I guess my question with that is what is the bedroom or unit size breakdown of that.

32:00Because again, I saw you mentioned we're looking to get more smaller rental sized units, but I wonder about ownership units.

32:10I'm guessing most of those units that were considered affordable were 1 bedrooms and and small condos and such.

32:17I don't know if there's a way to move towards or promote family sized units that can still be considered affordable.

32:29I don't know. Is there any anything that you are doing or considering to help to help households that are more than 1 or 2 people.

32:40We're looking for ownership. I'd be able to find that within the city of Guelph.

32:51Did you want to take a crack at that Jason? Yeah.

32:53I mean, I could touch on the units that that were considered affordable and just by volume. I mean, it's mostly townhouses and apartments that are being sold below that benchmark.

33:05And because there is a lack of 1 bedroom units being created in Guelph.

33:10The majority of those units that are falling below that benchmark price are 2 bedroom apartments.

33:16And there within the the attachment.

33:19There will be a table that does show the unit type and by number of bedrooms that did fall below and above the affordability benchmark.

33:29So, for example, in the last 5 years.

33:34Approximately 75% of the apartments that fell below that affordable benchmark price were 2 bedroom apartments. And that's just because the majority of apartments being created in Guelph.

33:45Are built as 2 bedrooms.

33:48But in terms of moving forward, perhaps, Kushla, maybe you, you might be able to address that.

33:55The second part of that question.

33:57Yeah, moving forward, I think the answer. Well, I know the answer is we're sort of at the beginning of that. So, so as mentioned, the work that that Jason has done through the state of housing report report is to find that baseline information.

34:11So, where are we at? Where are the housing gaps? And then where do we go from there? So we're at the part of where do we go from there? And, and, and so that's what we need to look into over the next, you know, 9 months to a year is how to,

34:24how do we, what are the things we need to do to fill in those gaps that Jason's identified in the state of housing report and gets to your question.

34:32So, so, unfortunately, it's going to take a bit of time for us to determine what those, what those recommendations may be, but.

34:40We will come back to you with what what we discover and what we find while crafting the housing affordability strategy.

34:48Thank you.

34:55Thank you. So, my question is the gentle density work that's being done.

35:02A lot of what I've heard is has been focused on the zoning bylaw. So, looking at the zoning bylaw, making sure or, or seeing if we could accommodate for or 5 or more units.

35:19So, I'm wondering if the official plan is on the table here too.

35:28Because I think the zoning bylaw is 1 issue, but the official plan is another entirely.

35:37So the.

35:39The official plans pretty restrictive in low density residential areas as far as net density. So.

35:46What are we looking to do about that? If anything.

35:51So, through the gentle density work. Yes, while it would be a zoning issue in terms of what is allowed. We are working with our consultants to look at what.

36:01Policy areas we may need to look at as well to potentially create more flexibility.

36:09Should there be enough capacity or do we need to take a look at our setbacks or urban design? So, sort of the whole suite of things that may be able to create more favorable conditions for a gentle density within our community.

36:22That's what we will be looking at through the gentle density work over the next again.

36:279 to 12 months.

36:29Sure.

36:31Sorry, within that would be the official plan. Sorry.

36:35Okay.

36:37Maria.

36:38Quick question.

36:39Should parking not be part of that discussion?

36:43The amount of parking because maybe.

36:46And I know that it was just changed recently down.

36:50It was changed recently.

36:52The percentage parking required.

36:55But what comes, what's more important? Is it a residence?

37:00We're considering that every unit has a parking space.

37:04So, you know, you can't have it all.

37:09And in, if we're, if the city is trying to get more homes and or smaller developments developed, then it's, it becomes a huge challenge as soon as you start talking about parking.

37:26Yeah, thanks, Maria. And I, and I don't disagree. So, parking is definitely one of the, the items that will be explored through the gentle density work.

37:35So again, it'll setbacks parking.

37:39We have water, wastewater capacity.

37:44A whole variety of things. And then it, yeah, we'll have to figure out what, what, what's more important.

37:52When it comes time to make a decision on potential changes to policy and zoning by law amendments as well.

38:02So, I think almost everything's on the table in terms of policy.

38:08So, I think we're just going to start with the general idea of how we can do better in terms of the zoning, just exploring and seeing what, see what, seeing what we can do better or be, how we can be more flexible.

38:15Or how we can remove barriers within the city of wealth to sort of get that type of range and mix and type of housing that we have identified in the, in the.

38:26State of housing report gaps. How can we do that better? Or how can we advance that?

38:32So, the gentle density work will be, we'll be looking at that.

38:38And I guess following that, that last question.

38:44When we look at the balance of the open space, whether we use it to park cars.

38:52Or we try to grow urban canopy.

38:56I think that there's it's, we have to really understand what the trade offs are as we intensify.

39:03Because without maintaining an urban canopy, we're not building a livable resilient city.

39:12And it's really important that we get that right.

39:20And that we recognize what it is, what is required to actually have a mature tree.

39:28Yeah, and I think that one of the driving forces behind any of the work that we do is our corporate strategic plan and sort of the overall vision for an inclusive sustainable.

39:40Liveable, livable future ready.

39:44Future.

39:45And so I think we really need to understand when we're talking about the parking, what the impact is because we need about two and a half parking spaces is required for a tree.

40:07Thank you everyone. So staff have kindly.

40:14Added 2 recommended motions 1 that the planning advisory committee received the presentation the state of housing in Guelph summary.

40:25Housing affordability strategy update and.

40:28That the comments provided by the planning advisory committee members on the state of housing in Guelph summary be provided to staff and counsel for further consideration.

40:39Unless I am corrected by our advisory in the clerk's office, I'm going to ask for a motion.

40:49On both of those recommendations together.

40:53Okay, so looking for a motion from the committee to move that or an alternative, of course.

41:03Maria a seconder.

41:07Artem, thank you. Any questions or concerns with the motions on the floor.

41:19Seeing none anyone opposed to the motions on the floor.

41:27Alright, seeing no opposition the motions pass.

41:31Thank you moving on to our 2nd committee item here. The Clive Creek.

41:39Sub watershed study update phase 1 characterization.

41:42Leah, I'm going to pass it over to you.

41:45Thanks Darren hi everyone I'm actually going to pass it over to Lucas Lucas is.

41:55Going to be starting us off this evening, but I'll introduce myself. I haven't had the pleasure of presenting.

42:01To this committee before my name is Leah Lefler. I'm an environmental planner at the city and the project manager for the Clive Creek sub watershed study.

42:10Lucas, I'll pass it to you and then.

42:14I'll take over towards the end of the presentation. Thanks.

42:18Thanks Leah just trying to find the mute button on Web X here.

42:29Thank you so good evening and thank you for having us everybody. My name is Lucas and I'm a policy planner here with the city.

42:37And as mentioned, I'm here with Leah, who's an environmental planner to present information.

42:42On the Clive Creek sub watershed study update.

42:45So, over the past few weeks, we've done some public engagement stops on this project, including a community information session.

42:53And a workshop.

42:55As a sub watershed study has several links to land use planning.

42:59We wanted to bring this to the planning advisory committee for your comments and consideration.

43:03So, we're going to start with a short presentation followed by an opportunity for some Q and a.

43:08So, first, let's start off with some high level questions, namely what is some watershed planning.

43:15So, or what is this a water shed? So, water sheds and some watersheds are land areas that drain to a common location.

43:23For example, the city of wealth is in the Grand River watershed, which is the largest watershed in southern Ontario.

43:29This watershed includes all land drained by the Grand River and its various tributaries.

43:35Sub watersheds are a useful scale for assessing.

43:38Natural heritage and water resources and for monitoring changes as they inform how water is working in a particular area.

43:46Sub watershed studies assist the city in understanding how land use changes have affected the natural heritage and water resource systems.

43:54Especially as new changes are expected within this sub watershed area boundary.

43:58So, some watershed studies are a science based approach that's supported by the province of Ontario.

44:07The province has provided direction to municipalities through a manual as well as a new draft guidance document released in 2022.

44:15Sub watershed planning is an integrative approach that is used to inform land use planning. So, typically land use planning follows plan boundaries.

44:24Whether that's a lot parcel, an urban boundary or a corporate boundary rather than environmental based boundaries or a feature based boundaries such as a sub watershed.

44:32Often this can result in a fragmented approach to planning, which can't capitalize on opportunities for collaboration or a system based approach to planning.

44:42Consider, for example, that the Clythe Creek headwaters are actually outside of the city's corporate boundary, but they still have a significant impact to how development is planned.

44:52The growth plan specifically section 3.2.6 ties watersheds and watershed planning to municipal requirements for master plans for water and wastewater.

45:03These are to be informed by watershed planning to ensure that there is not a negative impact to the quality and quantity of water.

45:11Municipalities that have an inland water source such as the city of Guelph are required to plan accordingly with their neighboring municipalities.

45:18As part of the city of Guelph included growth plan policies that require that watershed planning to inform various decisions that the city makes, including decisions on how growth is distributed.

45:33So 25 years have passed since the last sub watershed study in Clythe Creek and many land use changes have occurred in this area since then.

45:40The city of Guelph's natural heritage action plan identifies the prioritization of some watershed studies and the creation of a new sub watershed study framework.

45:51As priority actions, so these actions have now been completed and the Clythe Creek sub watershed study update was identified as the highest priority.

46:00This study will help to guide how development occurs in the sub watershed.

46:05And we'll help set the new stage for how the city undertakes some watershed studies into the future.

46:11We'll also make recommendations for an environment first approach to land use planning in the city, which will include best practices for protecting local drinking water.

46:20Managing storm water prioritizing what infrastructure gets built and when and sustaining and enhancing the local natural heritage system and the water resource system.

46:33So, finally, the scope of the study. So, this study will integrate various data sources, including the city's existing data collection points and new data collected over the course of the study to characterize the existing conditions in the study area.

46:46Leah will touch on this in the next coming slides. Next, we'll assess the impacts of future land use conditions such as development on the natural environment with considerations for climate change, which could include more frequent storm events.

47:00Finally, the study will recommend approaches and measures to protect and restore the quality and quantity of water in the sub watershed, including adaptive management approaches.

47:11So, throughout the entirety of the city, both the city, as well as our project team, recognize that the natural heritage system and the water resource system.

47:20Have a complex interrelationship that we need to be carefully considered.

47:24Now, I'll pass it to Leah to take us through the specifics about the cleat, so water should study update.

47:30Great, thanks very much, Lucas. So, just for some additional context, Lucas referenced our study team. We do have.

47:44A consultant that's assisting us with this work that's led by WSP.

47:50They're the surface water engineers that are leading the surface water component. And we also have matrix solutions who is assisting with the groundwater component.

48:02Dugan and associates, which is a local consulting company.

48:07Providing input to our natural heritage system and terrestrial ecology updates.

48:13And we also have cam port and associates who's doing the aquatics and fisheries component.

48:21And Margo Ursic, who is leading facilitation and is an advisor on natural heritage and policy related items.

48:30So, in terms of for those who may not know where Clife Creek, a sub watershed study or sub watershed is, it's located in the northeast corner of the city.

48:43So, if you've been to East view to the sports fields out there for soccer games, that's within the sub watershed.

48:53If you've traveled along York road towards Rockwood.

48:58You would have driven right alongside Clife Creek. Clife Creek flows through.

49:04The reformatory lands, which are currently owned by the province, but used by many Guelph.

49:11Folks for recreating. So those are some.

49:18Major landmarks within the sub watershed.

49:22The sub watershed of Clife Creek also includes 2 smaller tributary. So Watson.

49:30Creek and Hedaddy Creek as well.

49:33The headwaters extend into Guelph, Aramasa township. It's actually.

49:39Very close to a 50, 50 breakdown. So the headwaters.

49:45Really provide an important role and function in supporting the city's water supply.

49:51This is documented widely in her existing conditions work.

49:58And in terms of the project study team, we do have participation from Wellington County as well as Guelph, Aramasa township.

50:07On our extended project team, and so they are involved in the project and helping to inform.

50:14Various decision points in the project.

50:17I think I'll leave that there. If you could flip to the next slide, please Lucas.

50:23So, where are we at in the study and what is the study timeline? The project was actually initiated in 2022.

50:34This is a long range planning.

50:38Project that takes many years to complete. So.

50:41We're looking at a 2022 to 2025 project timeline.

50:48Sub watershed studies are typically broken down into 3 phases. We're nearing the end of phase 1.

50:56We've completed the characterization of existing conditions.

51:01And that work has really involved a deep dive into existing background information.

51:07As well as the collection of primary data sources.

51:11So, for example, for groundwater, new groundwater monitoring wells were drilled and we've been collecting monitoring data at those points.

51:19For over a year now, same with surface water. We have a number of surface water stations where we've been monitoring flows.

51:28As well as stream stage and collecting water quality samples.

51:32There, so the next phase.

51:36Is really the impact assessment where.

51:40Through the existing conditions of an integrated surface water and groundwater model is prepared.

51:47And we use that model and that model is calibrated to reflect existing conditions.

51:54And existing storm conditions that are based on that monitoring data I mentioned.

51:59And the impact assessment is based on future land use scenarios. So it could be full build out of official plan land use designations. For example.

52:12We'll have a climate change scenario and different things like that. And with those different parameters inputted into the model, we can see what the response is.

52:23That gives us really important information on.

52:26Okay, so we're going to see, you know, an increase in flood levels to this point. We need to plan accordingly or these infrastructure.

52:35Aspects will be way past capacity and these upgrades are needed before this time.

52:42Those are the types of things that the impact assessment will help us to identify.

52:47Then for the phase 3 work.

52:52That's really getting at the management plan. So we've identified what the results are from the impact assessment.

52:59And we'll be putting together a framework for going forward. So.

53:05So, what are those management initiatives that are needed? How will we implement them? What the priorities are timing and sequencing?

53:12Who's in charge of what? And then a monitoring program. So, looking to see.

53:18Going forward are the changes that we're seeing anticipated and is there any correct of action needed to pull us in the right direction.

53:27Next slide please. So.

53:33The Clife Creek sub watershed study is 1 of a few major.

53:39Projects happening in the East end of Guelph at this time.

53:42And so, because there is overlap and study area and.

53:47There may be implications or project dependencies on outcomes of.

53:52Some city projects on on this 1. I thought it would be helpful to relate this.

53:59To you in this presentation. So, there's some ongoing monitoring programs.

54:06The Ontario reformatory heritage conservation district study is ongoing.

54:13The York road phase for detailed design project is ongoing.

54:18Earlier this year, we completed the storm water management master plan, which has recommendations.

54:26Specifically directed to specific areas within the Christ, great sub watershed study area.

54:32In 2022, the planning department finished the York road and Elizabeth street land use study.

54:41And then dating back to 2014, we have the Guelph innovation district study, which overlaps with our project area.

54:47Next slide. So, what is the study approach?

54:55We're using a science based approach and multiple years of data collection will be undertaken.

55:04A key aspect of sub watershed planning is integration and taking a multi disciplinary approach.

55:12So, that's why it's really important to have a strong team.

55:17With various disciplines present who are used to thinking about things in an integrated fashion. So, when we get to results.

55:25And looking at the implications of the results and where there may be correlations or.

55:31Looking at how the results may be informed by other disciplines.

55:37That's where a lot of interesting findings come out and it tends to be quite an exciting point of the project.

55:44And then in terms of collaboration, so the city where the lead the project lead, we're also working in close partnership with the Grand River Conservation Authority.

55:56And I mentioned the county and township as well.

55:59We have a technical advisory group, you've probably picked up on the fact that this is a very technical study.

56:07Number heavy, but.

56:12So, yeah, there is a role for a technical advisory group. Most of them are a lot of them are surface water engineers. Some are.

56:20Natural assets specialists or civil engineers, there's varying degrees and.

56:28Areas of expertise that are represented on that group.

56:32We have also built in some engagement work.

56:37And so we've met with the natural heritage advisory committee a number of times for input on our terms of reference as well as our engagement strategy.

56:47We're meeting with you the planning advisory committee. We've reached out to and engaged with indigenous nations.

56:56As well as various interested parties organizations and community at large.

57:02Next slide please. So, what work has been completed to date?

57:08So, the background review has been completed. There was quite a bit of work that went into refining the sub watershed boundary.

57:16Based on catchments using a digital elevation model. So, looking at refining that boundary to make sure that we're setting our conditions as accurately as possible.

57:29There've been a lot of work. There's been a lot of work done in terms of groundwater monitoring.

57:36As well as surface water monitoring, there's been field data collection.

57:43On those disciplines as well as stream dynamics or some maybe more used to the term fluvial geomorphology.

57:50And the diagram I have up on the slide here shows some of the delineation and what.

57:58The water courses are what condition the water courses are. So, where there are existing areas of erosion impact.

58:08If we're seeing any issues related to impact from.

58:13Those small water courses being receivers of storm water management.

58:17From a primarily impervious land cover.

58:22We've also got some preliminary results from aquatic biology and terrestrial ecology.

58:30And we've begun work on preparing an initial groundwater and surface water model.

58:37So, next slide please. Okay, so what are we up to next? So.

58:44So, I mentioned that development of that existing conditions model and we're working to calibrate that based on our monitoring data.

58:54We've also worked to prepare terms of reference that's been approved by the Grand River Conservation Authority to update our regulatory floodplain mapping within the city of Guelph.

59:05We won't be updating the regulatory floodplain outside of the city of Guelph. We'll just bring it to.

59:14We'll be considering works upstream of the city boundary, but.

59:23We're spending city of wealth dollars so we're focusing our efforts within the city of both.

59:29Boundary will also be identifying erosion hazards and erosion thresholds.

59:34And we'll also be using the data that have been collected through.

59:40The aquatic surveys as well as the natural heritage surveys to refine.

59:45The natural heritage system using the criteria, the designation criteria in our official plan.

59:51So that work will have implications in terms of.

59:56The mapping on schedule for our official plan.

1:00:00As well as on the land use designation schedule too.

1:00:04And then also we're working to determine.

1:00:11For future conditions, what land cover mapping we should use for.

1:00:17Both the primary and the secondary study area. So.

1:00:21If we choose to use land use designations going forward.

1:00:25Is that the best representation of future land cover?

1:00:30In the city of Guelph, we've asked that of the county as well to find out if they have any other.

1:00:36Data sets that may be available or projections that we could consider for future conditions.

1:00:42Next slide, the key deliverables will be providing recommendations for managing groundwater.

1:00:51To sustain local drinking water needs and natural heritage features.

1:00:56So 1 thing the Clyde Creek municipal drinking water well has.

1:01:01Had a permit to take water for since the 80s, but that well has not been in operation since.

1:01:071989 or somewhere in that ballpark because of an aesthetic issue related to sulfur. The water has a stinky smell. It's not an issue in terms of.

1:01:18Drinking water, but people don't like the smell of it. So we're working on putting in a water treatment facility to remove this sulfur.

1:01:28And we will be returning that well to service that was identified through our water supply master plan.

1:01:36And so to do that, and to bring that well back into service, we need to.

1:01:42Have this watershed study in place to make sure that.

1:01:46There isn't an impact with that well operating and the interaction between groundwater surface water in this part of the city.

1:01:56That's 1 example recommendations for storm water management in the context of development and climate change.

1:02:05Much of the sub watershed in the older part.

1:02:09Does not have any storm water management for quality or for quantity.

1:02:14So we're looking for opportunities to improve that.

1:02:17We need to manage storm water. We need to manage water quality. Those are.

1:02:23Beads and must haves in terms of other key deliverables.

1:02:28Will be identifying important partnerships and approach and approaches to enhance some watershed conditions.

1:02:35And we'll also be developing a monitoring framework to track changes in the sub watershed over time.

1:02:41The image you might wonder, what are those things in that net? Those are fish. They're called modeled sculptant.

1:02:49And they're actually an indicator species of of groundwater inputs. They only survive in cold.

1:02:56Water these were actually caught in Clyde Creek on the Gulf reformatory lands.

1:03:03Which typically with urbanization, you see you see water quality related to temperature inputs.

1:03:11Warming of of creek systems surface water, but because we have such a shallow groundwater system.

1:03:19Groundwater is bubbling out of the ground. The fish are able to survive, which is a very.

1:03:25Cool and interesting finding, but also stresses the importance of of that.

1:03:34Of the ground water surface water and bottle and.

1:03:38Making sure that there isn't a negative impact to the water resource system and natural heritage system.

1:03:46Next slide. So, as we go forward data will be collected through 2024 next year.

1:03:56We'll be preparing characterization of existing conditions report.

1:04:01And then we'll be completing our phase 2 engagement, which will happen toward the end of next year or early in 2025.

1:04:10Next slide. So that's just to recap in terms of where we are in the study.

1:04:20Can skip to the next slide and that's it. We do have a have your say page open. You're welcome to check out any of the supporting documents.

1:04:32Or post any questions there or feel free to reach out to me directly.

1:04:36And I'm also interested to hear if you have any questions or comments about what you heard during this presentation.

1:04:45Thank you, Leah Lucas any questions from the committee.

1:04:59Lisa my understanding was that parts of Clyde Creek would be relocated during the York road redevelopment.

1:05:09How does this kind of a study integrate sort of those.

1:05:14Roadway considerations.

1:05:17Yeah, that's a excellent question Lisa and it's evolving because of.

1:05:24Budget discussions at this time so project details and project scope.

1:05:29Have not been confirmed until council approves our multi year budget.

1:05:36But the widening of York road and the price tag tied to.

1:05:42A very complicated road widening relocation project.

1:05:48Has caught the eye of everyone and once.

1:05:52There, there is a possibility, a strong possibility that your road will not be widened.

1:05:59And the creek will not be relocated through that your road reconstruction project.

1:06:04If that is the case.

1:06:08We have we're not at the recommendations phase, but.

1:06:13I know the study area well enough and I've had enough conversations over the years to know that there are many barriers.

1:06:19The fish passage along that stretch and inputs from.

1:06:24Various aspects that.

1:06:27I wouldn't be surprised if there are recommendations coming out of the sub watershed study to improve the creek system through there.

1:06:36But as part of the road widening.

1:06:41It, it may not be completed.

1:06:44As part of the creek might not be realized as part of that project as we initially thought.

1:06:51Okay, and I guess a follow up to that is.

1:06:55Because that's a cultured landscape at that point with all those waterfalls and and.

1:07:01How do you determine the preservation of the cold water temperature of the creek?

1:07:08With the heritage cultural heritage of the creation of those waterfalls and bridges and.

1:07:14Channelizations is is.

1:07:18Our does the study.

1:07:21Kind of indicate what the conflicts are.

1:07:25Yeah, definitely another really great question.

1:07:30Yeah, so this, you know, it's all fine and easy when.

1:07:34You've got your lane and no one else is coming to us, but when there's overlap, it can get kind of uncomfortable quite frankly, but yeah, and I guess that's like, I guess that's well, because some watershed studies are based on culture.

1:07:47Yeah, so.

1:07:49Yeah, so the actually the work that's being done through the Ontario reformatory district study.

1:07:58They're coming up with principles and.

1:08:02And things that would need to be considered and going forward with the maintenance and adaptive reuse of the of the property.

1:08:10In terms of what was approved.

1:08:14Through the environmental assessment for York road, when we thought we were going to move the creek.

1:08:19We came up with a solution that.

1:08:24Was a win win or that was.

1:08:27Kind of achieved both objectives.

1:08:30I'm not really answering your question because I don't know what is being proposed or where we want to go, but I think yeah, of course. Like yeah, I just wanted to make sure.

1:08:42That we've got natural heritage. We've also got cultural heritage and.

1:08:49They both need to be considered. Yeah. Yeah. And then we've got transportation planning. So.

1:08:55Yeah. Yeah, it's a.

1:08:58It's a tricky 1 for sure and it's all.

1:09:02Right there close to the roadway so.

1:09:06Lots to consider and it sometimes requires.

1:09:11Talking about things or problem solving in a way that.

1:09:15You have to kind of have your.

1:09:19Collaboration hat on in trying to think about, you know, how could we make this work for everyone? Yes. Yeah.

1:09:26I'm not sure that my questions are helpful for.

1:09:32Oh, they are and what impact that they would have. But.

1:09:39It is good to see that in the past, I, you know, in following the studies for the rock road widening.

1:09:49I don't think that the cultural heritage aspects of the York lands was.

1:09:56On the radar and even the.

1:10:03The zone between the edge of the basalt pavement.

1:10:08Recognizing that that tradition of pulling their large car off.

1:10:12The road surface to a parking kind of strip along a natural heritage.

1:10:18That's actually a very interesting 50s cultural heritage of how the automobile got integrated.

1:10:25Into our culture and I'm not sure anybody's considering any of that, but that notion of.

1:10:30Of pulling off and having a picnic.

1:10:34Because that's primarily what that area was for residents of Guelph.

1:10:39At that time.

1:10:43Yeah, the, the, have you followed it all the York.

1:10:48The drawing of like the reformatory.

1:10:53District study at all.

1:10:56Um, just haven't looked at it in a while. So I can't.

1:11:01Remember what I'd read, but I just generally read everything.

1:11:07Yeah, it sounds like that particular study.

1:11:14Would be of interest to you for sure.

1:11:17Any, and yep, Maria.

1:11:27Just a general question. How or who's responsible to integrate.

1:11:34All of these reports that you talked about that are.

1:11:40Have been completed are in progress like.

1:11:44Who's responsible to make sure that.

1:11:49Everyone is talking to each other that every report, you know.

1:11:54Becomes part of 1 well organized.

1:12:00Land report, especially when.

1:12:06It's not just the city of Guelph that I mean, I guess the city of Guelph is paid for this report.

1:12:13But when other municipalities, townships are involved.

1:12:18Like, how is this all done? Are the like Wellington or Mosa? Are they the partners that you talk about?

1:12:26Like, what if they do something that will affect.

1:12:30You know, this wonderful report and all these ideas within the city. That was my 1st question.

1:12:37So, there you started off and I thought I knew the question you're asking, then you went in a different direction. So I'll answer the 1, I thought you were asking at 1st.

1:12:52Which was like all of the different studies that are out there that have been completed. How.

1:12:58Do staff.

1:12:59Keep that awareness and and.

1:13:05Have that work and build upon that work in in new studies.

1:13:10Really that comes down to.

1:13:13Getting to be like, I've I've had.

1:13:18So many rich experiences as a city employee working as part of various studies. I get pulled in lots of different directions.

1:13:27But being a participant in those studies, being aware what the decision points were, what the outputs were.

1:13:35What the different policies are coming out of them. That's.

1:13:38That that's really a big part of it and then having.

1:13:43You know, the key people who are working on things to have those dialogues.

1:13:48In terms of integrating with the county and township.

1:13:54They've they've been very interested in the study, but because their development pressures are so different from Guelph and their tax base is so different and.

1:14:07They're participating for sure they have provided some.

1:14:14Forthcoming information about plan changes and the amount of growth or development that's anticipated is very minor.

1:14:21So that said, 1 thing that we are considering looking at is.

1:14:30Natural assets and the role that the protection of the natural heritage system in.

1:14:36The county place in providing basically providing a source water.

1:14:42Function for our drinking water.

1:14:44So.

1:14:49Yeah, I mean, we're we can.

1:14:52Do our best to understand what the county is doing, but ultimately they're they're their own separate municipality and we do our best to share information and understand what they're planning.

1:15:03But it all requires.

1:15:07Communication and attention to detail, I guess.

1:15:10I just, you know.

1:15:15It's just important to make sure that the left hand knows what the right hand is doing. So you've got all these reports.

1:15:23But if they're, if they don't all gel together, there could be a lot of time and money spent.

1:15:29And things missed because they haven't all been put together.

1:15:35That's that's just like my comment on that.

1:15:39The other question I have and then how do all these reports affect development in this area?

1:15:47So, you know, water, it's crucial. Like, I mean, it's it's it's crucial.

1:15:55So, does it hold up development in this area for possibly years?

1:16:03If pieces of land are affected or might be affected by.

1:16:10The recommendations from these reports, I'm just curious how that all works. How do you put all these pieces together?

1:16:18Yeah, by water, do you mean.

1:16:22Like drinking water, do you mean surface water? Do you mean?

1:16:27Like flooding, do you mean?

1:16:30All of it, like all the report, the report, you know, what you've talked about today.

1:16:36Because development happens all the time. So, so.

1:16:41What happens is just development held up in certain areas until some of this work might be done in the future.

1:16:54No, no development will continue. And then when we do have some watershed recommendations, some aspect could be.

1:17:04New storm water management criteria once.

1:17:07Once those have been approved, we would for any new development coming into a pre application.

1:17:14We would give them the new storm water management criteria and that would be implemented through.

1:17:20The development process, but until such time, we move forward with our existing requirements and.

1:17:28The existing standards that we have in place.

1:17:31Thank you.

1:17:35Other questions from the committee. I don't see any.

1:17:51Similar to the last presentation, there are recommended.

1:17:58Motions here 1 that the planning advisory committee received the staff presentation, Clive Creek, sub watershed study update. And that the comments provided by the planning advisory committee members on the client.

1:18:11Creek sub watershed study update be provided to staff and council for their consideration.

1:18:19So, I'll ask the committee to make a motion on those recommendations or an alternative recommendation.

1:18:27Should you see fit Lisa?

1:18:31A seconder from the committee.

1:18:34Thanks Morgan any questions concerns.

1:18:44Comments about the motions on the floor.

1:18:47Okay, seeing none anyone opposed to these motions passing.

1:19:01No opposition the motions pass.

1:19:06Thanks everyone. Thanks Leah. Thanks Lucas.

1:19:09For the presentation moving on to chair and staff announcements.

1:19:16I don't have any announcements staff.

1:19:19Any announcements for tonight?

1:19:24Maybe, maybe if I could just jump in Liz from the clerk's office here. I just want to let the committee know that Paul.

1:19:37Fellow committee member has resigned from the committee. So just taking a moment to thank Paul for all of his years of contribution.

1:19:46To to to pack so that's that's all for me.

1:19:51I have a question about that.

1:19:56So.

1:20:00What happens now that our chair has resigned?

1:20:07So, a chair is typically elected or should be elected yearly.

1:20:11So, at your next meeting, perhaps on the agenda, there can be a chair and vice chair election, giving other members an opportunity to step in if they wish.

1:20:23But yes, there's typically an election yearly.

1:20:27Okay, so I'll ask the committee members to.

1:20:37Consider your run for chair or vice chair. I'm happy to.

1:20:42Step aside as vice chair and in my temporary role as chair as well.

1:20:48So, consider that for next meeting.

1:20:52So, the last item is.

1:20:59Adjournment of the meeting, the recommendation, the planning advisory committee meeting be adjourned at 7.54 PM.

1:21:07Uh, can I have a motion from the committee? Lisa?

1:21:11A second.

1:21:14Thanks, Maria. Um, any, uh.

1:21:18Discussion on the motion currently on the floor.

1:21:22Seeing none, any opposition to adjournment at 7.54.

1:21:29Seeing none, uh, thank you everyone. Um, 1, uh, other issue, the, the next meeting. Um.

1:21:38If I could ask staff, do we have a rough idea of when the next meeting will be? Or is it more of a, you'll reach out to us?

1:21:47Um, over the next few months.

1:21:49Yeah, that's most likely we'll come forward with some of the gentle density work combined with the housing affordability strategies.

1:22:00Um, so possibly in February.

1:22:05Okay, start to put together your campaign materials for running for chair or vice chair for February.

1:22:14If you could.

1:22:16All right, so thank you everyone, uh, for your time this evening.

1:22:20Uh, appreciate the comments, the questions, the presentations from staff.

1:22:24Um, have a great night everyone.

1:22:28Thank you. Thanks so much.

1:22:42Thanks for, Clea.