Committee of Adjustment
July 13, 2023 · 17,846 words of debate
The whole meeting, as text
Transcribed automatically from the City’s recording. Times run from the start of the recording, which begins before the meeting is called to order.
Read the full transcript (17,846 words)
2:16Good afternoon, Guelph. I'd like to call to order the July 13th, 2023 hearing of the Guelph Committee of Adjustment.
2:24For your information, this hearing is being held in a hybrid format with intent D's appearing in person and or remotely and is being live streamed and recorded.
2:34Please be advised that public hearings form part of the public record and the words names or images of those participating shall be recorded and posted online.
2:45I've confirmed with the Secretary-Treasurer that we have quorum to proceed today.
2:49Before I outline the hearing format, if you wish to speak to an application that's listed on the agenda and have not yet submitted a request in advance of the hearing, please call the number displayed on the screen now,
3:02which is by 19-822-1260 extension 2524. That's 519-822-1260 extension 2524.
3:17And you'll receive instructions on how to participate in the meeting.
3:21A final call for delegations will be made when each application is called.
3:25The agenda for this hearing has been posted online at Guelph.ca forward slash C of A.
3:33I'll remind all committee members and staff participating at the hearing to please mute your microphones when not in use. Applicants will be unmuted when their application is called.
3:45I'd also like to share the hearing format we will be using to navigate through each application.
3:51Each application will be called by the Secretary-Treasurer and the call-in number for those wishing to speak to an application will be displayed on the screen.
4:01Afterwards, the applicant will be given an opportunity to add anything further to their application to a maximum of 10 minutes.
4:10If you're the applicant and have nothing further to add, then you can simply say so.
4:14The committee will then be able to ask questions of the applicant or of staff.
4:20After that, we will hear from the members of the public who wish to comment on the application.
4:25Please note that all comments should be addressed through myself, the chair.
4:30And please avoid repeating comments already stated by others and focus on adding new information.
4:37Comments are limited to 10 minutes or less.
4:40Any members of the public who have submitted a request to speak prior to the hearing will be the first invited to provide comments.
4:48For those watching the hearing online, if you wish to speak to an application and have not submitted a request in advance of the hearing, please call the number displayed on the screen now.
5:00For those attending the hearing in person, you will also be given a chance to come forward to the podium and address our committee.
5:08Once all comments from the public have been heard, the applicant or staff will be given an opportunity to respond to those comments.
5:18Finally, as the chair, I'll turn to my committee for a motion and deliberation, as well as a vote on the application.
5:27When the committee is making a decision on the application, I shall be asking the secretary-treasurer to conduct the vote by roll call.
5:34The secretary-treasurer will call each of the members' name and each member will respond if they are in favor or opposed to the motion, and the chair will renounce the vote.
5:46If you wish to receive a copy of the decision of an application, including information about the appeal process, you must submit a written request.
5:57A written request can be made by contacting staff using the contact information now shown on the screen.
6:05To receive a copy of the decision, please email cofa at gwellf.ca with your name, the file number you are interested in.
6:17Please note that the owners and applicants automatically receive a copy of the decision.
6:22At this point, I will ask for member Goodfellow to provide our First Nations acknowledgement.
6:32Thank you, Chair Smith.
6:34As we gather, we are reminded that Gwellf is situated on treaty land that is steeped in rich Indigenous history and home to many First Nations, Inuit and Métis people today.
6:44As a city, we have a responsibility for the stewardship of the land on which we live and work.
6:49Today, we acknowledge the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation of the Anishinaabe peoples on whose traditional territory we are meeting.
6:58Thank you, Member Goodfellow.
7:00Committee members, are there any disclosures of the Cuniery interest?
7:05And if so, Member Goodfellow.
7:07Yes, I need to disclose that an employer of mine previously completed work at the site at 105 Victoria Road North.
7:16So I will be recusing myself from that discussion.
7:20Thank you.
7:21And Member Pike, or the 105 Victoria Road within the circle.
7:30Just let me confirm, we will have a full slate otherwise so we can proceed with that.
7:43At this point, I'd like to ask members to approve the minutes of the last meeting. Do I have a motion on that?
7:59Member Spears has moved it and a seconder.
8:03Member Sayers, all those in favor?
8:08Motion is carried.
8:11I've confirmed with the Secretary of Treasure that we have received a deferral request and I will turn it over now to our Secretary of Treasure, Madam Secretary of Treasure.
8:25Thank you, Chair. It was noted on the revised agenda that we do have a deferral request for Consent File B-9-23 for 516 Imperial Road North.
8:36Staff are recommending deferral to allow the applicant time to meet with staff and provide information on how they intend to meet the uses and regulations of the applicable zoning by-laws.
8:45And also note for the committee that the agent for this application will not be in attendance tonight.
8:50Thank you.
8:54Without the applicant present, I will assume that they are in agreement with this deferral. And so I'll turn to my colleagues on the committee for a motion.
9:07Member Goodfellow.
9:12A motion to defer.
9:14We have a seconder. Member Spears, is there any comment or debate? Actually, there isn't on a deferral. So we'll move right to the vote, Madam Secretary of Treasure.
9:27Thank you, Chair. Committee members, please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion, which is to defer the application.
9:36Chair Smith.
9:37In favor.
9:39Member Klein.
9:41In favor.
9:43Member Goodfellow.
9:45In favor.
9:46Member Pike.
9:47In favor.
9:48Member Seher.
9:49In favor.
9:50And Member Spears.
9:52In favor.
9:53That's Cari.
9:54Thank you.
9:56The application to defer that request has been approved. And at this point, I am going to ask the Secretary of Treasure to announce the next application.
10:08The next application is files B-26-22, B-27-22 and B-28-22 for 105 Victoria Road North.
10:36That application was consent to create two new residential lots with one retained lot and a consent for a lot addition to 103 Victoria Road North.
10:45I'll also note for the committee members as well as those attending that there has been a number of revisions to the conditions that were recommended by staff.
10:55And I'll outline them here. So for file B-26-22, engineering conditions three, five and seven have been amended to remove a reference to the retained lands.
11:10And also condition five, that was an engineering condition has been changed. The timing has been changed to prior to building permit as well for file B-27-22.
11:21The engineering condition number one, that was a site plan approval that condition has now been removed and as well electric conditions two and three have been removed.
11:34And finally, condition four, the requirement for development agreement has also been removed. So I just wanted to note that for the committee members and that revised condition wording has been circulated to the applicant as well.
11:50I'll also note for anyone that wishes to speak to this application, you can do so by calling the number displayed on that screen. The number is 519-822-1260 extension 2524.
12:02And when you call in staff will give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely via phone.
12:09Thank you, Anne. I will note that the two members who have declared a conflict have vacated the room.
12:17At this point, I'd like to call on the applicant if they're here present or to come forward or if they're online. Okay.
12:26Good afternoon. Can you state your name for the record please? You're muted if you push your button.
12:37Good afternoon. My name is Emily Elliott. I'm an associate with MHBC planning and I am the applicant regarding these applications.
12:46Thank you. Can you tell me if the sign was posted as per the planning act?
12:49It was.
12:51Thank you. You have 10 minutes to address the committee.
12:55Thank you. And good afternoon, member chair and members of the committee.
12:59These applications relate to 103 and 105 Victoria Road North in the city of Guelph. And as the Madam Secretary Treasurer noted, there are three applications for consideration tonight.
13:11The lands are located at the northeast corner of Victoria Road North and Casino Avenue. And they're presently developed with two single detached dwellings that have frontage on both Victoria Road.
13:22Sorry, the single detached dwellings have frontage on Victoria Road. And there's also a detached garage on the site.
13:29The total area of the site is 1.4 hectares. And that includes 90 meters of frontage on Victoria Road North and 156 meters of French John Casino Avenue.
13:41The lands are designated low density residential by the city of Guelph official plan and a zoning bylaw amendment was recently approved by council in July to permit the development of the rear portion of the site with a multiple residential development.
13:56That consists of stacked townhouses and cluster townhouses. The existing two single detached dwellings on Victoria Road are proposed to be retained and a new lot at the corner of Victoria and Casino is proposed to be created.
14:11These consent applications were initially submitted in September of 2022, but they were deferred as we worked through the final details related to the zoning bylaw amendment application.
14:22The purpose of the consent applications as I mentioned is to divide the lands at Victoria 105 Victoria Road into three parts, which are identified as parts one, two and three on the consent sketch and to also permit a lot addition to the rear of 103 Victoria Road North, which is an existing lot.
14:39Thank you.
14:40The consent application is on the screen now and I'll just quickly go through each of the parts to describe them.
14:46So part one is contains the single detached dwelling I mentioned, it has a frontage of 49 meters on Victoria Road North and a depth of 48 meters. It has an area of about 2300 square meters.
15:00Part two is the lot to be created at the corner of Victorian Casino. It has a frontage of 21 meters on Victoria Road North and 48 meters on casino and an area of 1042 square meters.
15:14Part two is zoned to permit a single detached dwelling. However, plans have not been advanced related to that future development and staff have recommended a number of conditions related to the orderly development of part two.
15:27Part three is proposed to be developed as the multiple residential development that was recently approved by council and site plan approval is required for that lot and related development.
15:39This lot has an area of 0.97 hectares and a frontage of 105 meters on Victoria Road North or sorry on casino Avenue and a depth of 90 meters.
15:50And finally part four is that small, small piece in behind 103 Victoria Road, and that's a lot addition to 103 Victoria. It has a width of 21 meters and a depth of just shy of two meters and has an area of 42 square meters.
16:08The lot addition is requested to establish a regular lot line for part three and to allow for the retention of mature trees at the rear of 103 Victoria.
16:19The applications are consistent with the provincial policy statement and conform to the growth plan. They'll allow for intensification and the efficient use of residential lands in the built up area of the city.
16:31They conform to the official plan and we're subject to recently approved zoning by law amendment.
16:37The proposed consents represent the orderly division of the subject lands and will facilitate the redevelopment of part three as contemplated.
16:46And as I mentioned, site plan approval is required for part three and the associated multiple residential development.
16:53We have reviewed the staff report and the recommendations from the city, including the recommended conditions as modified and described by the secretary, Treasurer and had very productive discussions with staff and agencies regarding those conditions.
17:08So we would request that the committee approve the applications subject to the conditions as modified. And I'd be happy to answer any questions. Thank you.
17:19Thank you very much. That was concise and in doing so you answered the one question I had. So, full marks for that.
17:28Let me turn to my colleagues and see if you if pardon me, see if there is any delegations who wish to speak to that before I turn to my colleagues.
17:37Chair Smith, I can confirm we haven't received any delegations via phone.
17:43Thank you. And are there any members of the audience present who would like to speak to this application?
17:51Seeing none, I will now turn to my colleagues to see if they're, if they have any questions for you if you want to wait right there.
17:59I do not see any questions for you at this point.
18:10I think we can turn it to my colleagues to accept a motion on this application.
18:18Member Spears.
18:22I move that we accept the application with the conditions as written by staff.
18:29Thank you. Do we have a seconder member Klein? Do we have any conversation or debate on this?
18:41Seeing none, I'll turn it over to our secretary treasurer to call the vote.
18:48Thank you chair committee members please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion which is to approve all three applications with the recommended conditions also noting the changes that have been made to the conditions via staff.
19:04Chair Smith.
19:05In favor.
19:06Member Klein.
19:08In favor.
19:10Member Seher.
19:12In favor.
19:14Member Spears.
19:15In favor.
19:16That's carried chair.
19:18Your application has been accepted and approved. Thank you for your presentation today.
19:24At this point we can ask the our secretary treasurer for the next applicant please.
19:33Just for members of the audience we're waiting for our colleagues to return.
19:51The next application is filed a-18 slash 23 variances to permit increased total ground floor area and height for proposed accessory building detached garage at 12 Terry Boulevard.
20:42In order for any of the members of the public to speak to an application you can do so by calling the numbers displayed on the screen that numbers 519-822-1260 extension 2524 and when you call in staff will give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely.
20:59Is the applicant present.
21:01Please come forward to the microphone.
21:10Welcome.
21:11Could you state your name for the record and your association with the application.
21:15Yeah John Vander word I'm.
21:18Architectural technologist from Vander word drafting and design.
21:23I am speaking on behalf of the.
21:26The homeowners.
21:29At Terry Boulevard.
21:31And was the sign posted as per the planning. Yes it's still posted. Yeah.
21:38Thank you and.
21:41Have you read the staff recommendations.
21:45Yes.
21:46Are you in agreement.
21:48Yes.
21:49Yep.
21:50You have 10 minutes to address the committee. Thank you.
21:55If you recall last time we had objections from the.
21:59A couple of neighbors more about the height of the building. So we reduced the height.
22:06On.
22:07Of the overall building.
22:09And the area which is.
22:12Adjacent to the properties of the people who are objecting is now.
22:17Well under the four meter.
22:19At that.
22:20Side yard.
22:22And.
22:24So we've redesigned the building to make it more.
22:29Appealing to the neighbors, if you will.
22:31So.
22:33That's kind of my.
22:35Yeah.
22:36The.
22:37There.
22:38I'm glad you're here.
22:39Thank you.
22:40And I'll.
22:41Spill.
22:42Okay.
22:43We appreciate the brevity. Thank you.
22:48Especially in light of the unfortunate length of the last meeting you were at, I believe.
22:52At any rate at this point.
22:54I would like to see if there are any delegates who'd like to speak to this.
23:01Chair Smith.
23:02I can confirm we haven't received any online delegations.
23:04Thank you.
23:05Seeing none, I will turn to my colleagues and see if they have any questions for you, if you want to stay right there.
23:13I don't see any questions from, excuse me, jump the gun, member Sayers.
23:24Yeah, I would just like to know why the, why the ground floor area of the proposed building is.
23:3583.7 square meters is quite a bit above the permitted area of 70 square meters. So I just wanted to get an understanding of, you know, why, why it's larger than permitted.
23:52Mostly for storage area. He has two classic cars. Okay, so, and then just also storage area for lawn, lawn equipment and stuff like that.
24:04So, that's basically why we need the extra space. There's no attached garage on the house either, by the way. So, okay, thank you.
24:21Any other questions for this applicant?
24:25Member Pike.
24:27Just for clarification, you said the overall heights been reduced, but then you said on the one side.
24:35It's below the four meters.
24:38Yes, correct. The overall height is down because the raised part of the roof where he can put his hoist, okay, is a lot narrower.
24:49So that brings the pitch down. So we lowered the pitch on the roof and we also lowered the overall height of the roof as well.
24:57Thank you.
25:02Any other questions? Seeing none, I will turn to the committee for a motion.
25:11Member Spears.
25:18I move that the committee accept this proposal and application as written.
25:25I have a seconder.
25:27Member Goodfellow.
25:30Do we have any debate on the motion on the floor? Seeing none, I will turn it over to Madam Secretary Treasurer for a vote.
25:44Thank you, Chair. Committee members, please indicate your vote on the motion, which is to approve the application.
25:51Chair Smith.
25:52In favor.
25:53Member Klein.
25:55In favor.
25:56Member Goodfellow.
25:58In favor.
25:59Member Pike.
26:00In favor.
26:01Member Sayer.
26:03Not in favor.
26:04And Member Spears.
26:06In favor.
26:07That's carried, Chair.
26:09Your application has been approved. You are free to leave. Thank you.
26:18Madam Secretary Treasurer, may we have the next applicant, please?
26:21The next application is file A-40-23, variance to permit reduced side yard setback for proposed conversion of existing attached garage to living space at 3 King Street.
26:53For those that wish to speak to the application, you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen. That number is 519-822-1260 extension 2524.
27:04And when you call in, staff will give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely via phone.
27:09Is the applicant present?
27:12Good afternoon.
27:15Welcome. And please come and address the committee with your name and relationship.
27:22Good afternoon. Thanks. Lloyd Grinum from Grinum Architects.
27:26And I'm here on behalf of the owners Dave Barton, Cheryl McGowan.
27:31Thank you. And was the sign posted as per the planning act?
27:35It was.
27:37You have, I guess, 10 minutes to address the committee before I let you do that. Have you looked at staff's comments and are you in agreement?
27:46We have and we are.
27:48Well, as I say, you have 10 minutes.
27:51Well, in the competition for brevity, I think I need about one.
27:55I think the staff comments actually outlined the project very well.
28:00And it's pretty simple.
28:02It's conversion of garage space to additional living space for the house that it's attached to.
28:07And it's an existing condition where there's a one meter side yard setback that doesn't meet the current zoning.
28:13And that in itself is short of the current 1.5 meters.
28:18And we're asking for relief for an additional six inches or 0.15 meters to allow for exterior insulation and improvement of the envelope.
28:26So I think the staff comments covered it off planning, said it more eloquently than I just did.
28:31And the only other comment was from building, which was about OEC requirements when we submit for permit, which is perfectly understandable and familiar.
28:40And we'll take care of that on the next stages, hopefully.
28:44Well, thank you. And I'm going to ask if there's anyone present would like to speak to this application.
28:51Or if there's anyone online, secretary treasurer.
28:55Chair Smith, I can confirm that we didn't receive any delegation requests. I'll also note, I forgot to mention earlier that we did get some correspondence after the comment deadline.
29:05And that correspondence was from the owners of the property.
29:09And they were forwarding support from various neighbors and that correspondence has been circulated to the committee, the committee members.
29:17Thank you.
29:20And at this point, I will turn to my colleagues to see if there's any questions for the applicant.
29:28Seeing none, I will.
29:36Ask for a motion.
29:40Members, do we have a motion on the floor member pipe.
29:44And move for approval.
29:46And a seconder member sayers.
29:50And I wonder if there's any conversation about this motion.
29:55Seeing none, I will turn it over to our secretary treasurer for a vote.
30:03Thank you, chair committee members, please indicate your vote on the motion, which is to approve the application.
30:10Chair Smith, in favor.
30:12Member Klein, in favor.
30:15Member good fellow in favor.
30:18Member pike in favor.
30:20Member Sarah in favor.
30:23And members beers in favor.
30:26That's carried chair.
30:28Thank you.
30:30Your application has been approved. Thank you. And you're free to leave the meeting. Appreciate it.
30:39At this point, Madam secretary treasurer, may we have the next applicant.
30:53The next application is file a dash 41 slash 23 permission to allow additional use duplex dwelling at 83 baggett street. I'll also note for those.
31:05For those who are eligible for the application, they can do so by calling in a number displayed on the screen. That number is 5198 2212 60 extension 2524.
31:17And when you call in staff will give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely via phone.
31:23Is the applicant present.
31:25Or are they on? Oh, yeah, there we are.
31:28Mr. Good morning, my name is Sam Zalic. I am the property owner. This is Aaron Maxim the designer on the project.
31:45We're here today to speak about a minor variance at 83 Baggett street.
31:50And can you tell me if the sign was posted as per the planning and indeed it was. Okay. And have you read staff's comments?
31:58comments. We have. And I'm assuming that since staff is recommending refusal, you
32:06may have some words to say about that. So you have 10 minutes to do so.
32:10Certainly. Thank you. I'm just going to introduce myself again and talk about
32:15the product there and we'll go into the more technical details. The property is
32:21again located at 83 Bagot Street has frontage on both London and Bagot
32:25Street, a corner lot making it ideally suited for duplex classification.
32:31It does have a driveway on both Bagot Street and London. We initially submitted
32:37this application for an accessory apartment under the impression that the
32:42comprehensive zoning review would come into effect. The stars would align for
32:48us and we'd be able to have duplex under the new 2023 zoning. Unfortunately,
32:53appeals have delayed that process. So we're here today to ask for a revision
32:59of the permitted use in advance of that the appeals process.
33:05We did submit under an accessory apartment application along the way,
33:11though, checking all the boxes that would be required for a duplex, the fire
33:15separation, separate meters, separate electrical sprinklers, everything that
33:22you may need for a duplex is in place under an accessory apartment permits.
33:28I will hand it over to Aaron from here and talk to you about the other details.
33:34Yeah, thanks. Yeah, Sam mentioned we're we're stuck in this
33:40phrase zone right now between the old bylaw and the upcoming bylaw. So
33:46as staff has explained under the new upcoming bylaw, I don't think we
33:53would even be having this discussion. So that's, you know, in in in light of,
34:00you know, the provincial really demand for improved housing units across the
34:05board making this a duplex at this point. That's that's the justification for
34:13quite frankly, both units, the upper unit, which is about 1100 square feet and
34:18the lower unit, which is about 925 will have their own exterior access.
34:25So there really is no need for that interior access. Fire separations will be
34:30in place. That yeah, that's that's our argument.
34:39Okay, thank you. That was pretty concise summary. So I appreciate that.
34:46Do we have any delegations who wish to speak to this application in the
34:50audience? Seeing none, Secretary Terser, do we have any online?
34:56Chair Smith, we haven't received any delegation requests.
35:00Thank you. And I'll turn to my colleagues if you want to wait right there to see
35:04if they have any questions for you.
35:07Through you, Mr. through you, chair. Excuse me. I'm curious about the what is
35:15the advantage of duplexing this this building rather than leaving it in the
35:19condition it is, which is to still two living units.
35:23Yeah, I can do the advantages are as as follows. First and foremost, the stairs
35:33that connect the top floor to the bottom floor were built, likely when the house
35:38was built in around the 1950s. So the stairs are not to code. Unfortunately,
35:45rebuilding the stairs to allow them to adhere to code would would mean some
35:51significant structural changes, losses in always and potentially some loss to
35:58existing space. The other advantage to removing the internal connection, of
36:04course, is increasing the livability of of the two units. It allows us to use
36:12the space more efficiently. Laundry facilities in both the up floor and and
36:18the lower floor can be placed where the internal connection currently is, which
36:23means we don't have to take that space from livable space such as a bedroom,
36:27allowing us to potentially house more people in amidst housing crisis that,
36:32of course, the city of golf has acknowledged. And that's the reason for
36:38the comprehensive review in the first place.
36:42Okay. Thank you. Member Goodfellow.
36:50Through you, chair, to the applicant, I think what I heard from the technical
36:54discussion was that there was a commitment to meeting all of the Ontario
36:58Building Code requirements to have a fully duplexed unit. Can you just confirm
37:02that that I am understanding that correctly? Yes, that's correct. Okay.
37:07Thank you. Any other questions from my colleagues?
37:14I have a question for staff. If my colleagues are done and that is,
37:21if I read this correctly, correct me if I'm wrong, this does not qualify as a
37:28duplex or a duplex is not permitted under the current zoning bylaw, but the
37:34amended zoning bylaw would allow it is. Is that how I'm reading this?
37:39To you, chair, yes, that is correct. The existing old 1995 zoning bylaw does not
37:48permit a duplex. The adopted by council, but under appeal 2023 bylaw does allow
37:55multiple forms of low density development, including duplexes.
38:00So it's failing one of the tasks because it's not meeting the zoning, the
38:11the earlier bylaw zoning bylaw as opposed to the foreseen bylaw depending on
38:18the outcome of appeal. Is that correct? Correct.
38:23Okay. That answers my question. I'm sorry. I was pausing to think of another.
38:35I had another one, but it's immaterial. So I will let that go. Any more questions
38:41from my colleagues? Member Sears.
38:50Through the chair to staff, if we were to approve this application, are there any
38:55conditions you would recommend? To the member through the chair. No, staff would
39:07not recommend any conditions to this point. The situation is that the 2023
39:14zoning bylaw has been appealed in its entirety. So these regulations are any
39:20other regulations in the zoning bylaw could be before the tribunal, but they
39:25haven't been before the tribunal yet. Okay. Thank you.
39:33I have one other question that just occurred to me with as a result of
39:39member Sears question. And that is if this was an accessory considered an
39:47accessory suite, it would qualify as an accessory suite based on the fact that it
39:54is subsidiary to the main. And the...
40:00It could come to us with the condition that there is no internal stare.
40:10Is that, is that fair to the chair?
40:29There, the applicant could make a request to remove the internal connection under the zoning by law regulations from the committee of adjustment.
40:41Okay, I'm not going to ask you for a decision on the fly or a comment on the fly, but I just wanted to get that that clear that it could potentially be something that we looked at under.
40:54An accessory apartment as opposed to a duplex. Okay. Thank you.
40:59Any other questions from the.
41:02I don't see any members of the committee. May I ask for your intentions.
41:10Member Spears. Yes, through you, Mr. Chair, it seems to me, I mean, I feel sorry for the applicant getting stuck in this place, but it to me the spirit of the 2023 version certainly would permit this and it seems.
41:30Not the right decision to vote against that I would certainly vote in favor of this application.
41:37Is that emotion at this point I was looking for emotion, but you asked for intentions.
41:51Perhaps I should have been a little more clear member Klein. Sorry. I thought you had your hand up member Klein. Sorry.
42:05I didn't have my hand up, but if you're still looking for emotion, I would move approval of this application.
42:10Thank you. And seconded by member good fellow.
42:19Secretary treasurer, can we call the vote then.
42:22Thank you, chair committee members. Please indicate your vote on the motion, which is to approve the application.
42:30Chair Smith in favor. Member Klein in favor.
42:36Member good fellow in favor member pike in favor member Sarah in favor.
42:44And member Spears in favor. That's carried chair.
42:49Your application has been approved. You're free to leave. Thank you. You're welcome.
43:02Madam secretary treasurer may we have the next applicant.
43:11The next application is about a dash 42 slash 23 variance to permit reduced side yard setback for proposed second story addition to the rear of the existing dwelling at 31 suffix street west.
43:24And if you wish to speak to those watching online if you wish to speak to this application, you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen and that number is 519821260 extension 2524.
43:37Is the applicant present.
43:42Yes.
43:43Murray shorter calling in.
43:48Thank you. And are you the owner.
43:52I am.
43:54It seems we have someone else at the podium. Can you state your name for the record please.
43:59Sure. It's Lloyd Greenham from Greenham architects.
44:02Thank you. And from one of you may I know if the sign was posted as per the planning act.
44:09I'll say it was very well.
44:14Yes, it was.
44:16Have you read staff's comments and are you in agreement.
44:19We have, and we are. Yes.
44:22I know at this point you have 10 minutes to address the committee.
44:26Okay.
44:28Again.
44:29Pretty straightforward. This one existing house on Suffolk street with a rear addition.
44:35Not original to the construction.
44:38That has a deficient side yard setback by the previous zoning by law of one one 0.5 meters where it should have been one point five by the current bylaw.
44:49proposal is to construct a new second story, expansion of the second story of the original
44:55house above that rear addition sort of following the footprint so that would require really
45:00from the 1.5 meter side yard requirement to match the existing condition of the lower
45:07existing ground floor of 1.05 meters in a nutshell.
45:13Thank you.
45:14And I'm wondering if there are any delegates in the audience who wish to comment on this
45:20application seeing none.
45:24Madam Secretary Treasurer, do we have any on the line?
45:27Chair Smith, no delegations.
45:30Thank you.
45:31I'll now turn to my committee members to see if they have any questions for you if you
45:35want to stand by.
45:37Any members seeing none?
45:43I do have one question of staff.
45:48In taking a look at this property, I thought I noted that there was a building permit posted
45:57and is that normal that we could have a building permit and a question of committee at the
46:05same time?
46:10To the chair, often applicants, owners do apply for minor, sorry, building permits.
46:19And at that time when zoning was reviewed, that minor variance requirements or zoning
46:25deficiencies are checked and caught and then they do come to committee for that reason.
46:31So yes, it is normal.
46:34Thank you.
46:35Just clarification.
46:36At this point, we don't have any questions.
46:41So I'll turn it over to my colleagues to see for a motion.
46:48Member Goodfellow.
46:49I'm a motion to approve this application.
46:53And a seconder.
46:55Member Sayers.
46:58And any discussion on the motion?
47:01Seeing none, I'll turn it over to our secretary treasurer for a vote.
47:07Thank you, chair.
47:08Committee members, please indicate your vote on the motion, which is to approve the application.
47:12Member Smith.
47:13In favor.
47:14Member Klein.
47:16In favor.
47:18Member Goodfellow.
47:19In favor.
47:20Member Pike.
47:21In favor.
47:22Member Sair.
47:23In favor.
47:25And member Spears.
47:27In favor.
47:28That's carried, chair.
47:29Your application has been approved.
47:31You're free to leave the meeting.
47:32Thank you.
47:33Thank you.
47:34Madam secretary treasurer, may we have the next applicant?
47:51The next application is file a dash 43 slash 23 variance to permit reduced side yard setback
47:57for existing rear uncovered porch.
48:00Deck at 12 mollison court.
48:03I'll also note for those attending online, if you wish to speak to an application, you
48:09can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen.
48:12That number is 519-822-1260 extension 2524.
48:17And when you call in staff will give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely.
48:23And do we have the applicant online?
48:26Yes, Matt Cooker here representing the homeowners at 12 mollison court.
48:33Welcome and can you tell me if the sign was posted as per the planning act?
48:38Yes, it was.
48:40And have you read staff's comments and are you in agreement?
48:43I am.
48:44Yes.
48:45Okay.
48:46So at this point, you have 10 minutes to address the committee.
48:50Perfect.
48:51So the homeowners are looking to retain their existing deck at the rear of the home.
48:55It is a deck under 24 inches uncovered.
48:58And it was previously built encroaching within the exist the setback.
49:06So we're looking for a variance to permit that reduced setback to a zero point.
49:11So let me pull up the drawing here.
49:200.09 meters.
49:25And that is the just of our application.
49:28Okay.
49:29If you want to stand by, I'll check and see if there are any committee members who have
49:33questions for you.
49:35Committee members do have questions of this applicant seeing none.
49:43I will ask if there are any members of the audience or people at home who would like
49:49to make delegation on this application.
49:53Chair Smith, I can confirm no online delegations.
50:01Thank you.
50:02Committee members, do you wish a motion on this?
50:05And if so, may I receive your members' fears?
50:12I move to approve this application.
50:15Committee members, seconder.
50:18Member Pike.
50:21Any discussion?
50:24Seeing none, I will turn it over to our secretary treasurer.
50:30Thank you, Chair.
50:31Committee members, please indicate your vote on the motion, which is to approve the application.
50:36Chair Smith.
50:37In favor.
50:38Member Klein.
50:39In favor.
50:40Member Goodfellow.
50:42In favor.
50:43Member Pike.
50:44In favor.
50:46Member Sair.
50:47In favor.
50:48And Member Spears.
50:49In favor.
50:50That's carried, Chair.
50:52Thank you.
50:53Your application has been approved.
50:55Great.
50:56Thank you very much.
50:57You're welcome.
51:01Madam Secretary Treasurer, may we have the next applicant?
51:11The next application is file A-44-23, variances to permit reduced front yard exterior and
51:18interior side yard setbacks for proposed second story addition to the existing residential
51:23dwelling at 51 Spring Street.
51:26For those watching online, if you wish to speak to this application, you can do so by
51:30calling the number displayed on the screen.
51:32That number is 519-822-1260 extension 2524.
51:38Is the applicant present?
51:40Yes.
51:41Welcome.
51:42And please come forward and address the committee with your name.
51:45Hello.
51:47My name is Brandon Ancelmini and I'm here to talk on behalf of my brother, Ty Ancelmini.
51:53Thank you.
51:55And can you tell me if the sign was posted as per the Planning Act?
51:58It was.
52:00And have you read staff's comments and are you in agreement?
52:04Yes, I have.
52:05I do have a quick question regarding the TIPP.
52:09Is this a document that's found on your website?
52:14I will ask staff if they can comment on that to the applicant through you, Chair.
52:26It's a document prepared by a arborist.
52:32So staff can work with the applicant to organize that and make suggestions.
52:41Just in design just to protect the trees on the site now.
52:45For sure.
52:46Thank you.
52:48Okay.
52:49And you have 10 minutes to address the committee on your application.
52:52Yeah, this might be a short one too.
52:55So what I'm looking to seek relief in is we're looking to put a second story on the
53:01existing dwelling.
53:04There will be no change to the footprint as is right now.
53:08There are three setbacks that we are looking to get relief from, which are the front exterior
53:15and interior side lot.
53:18We're looking to get this done just to make the house more attainable to an average size
53:23family.
53:24And I have also read the building comment.
53:29They are requesting a survey when the building permit is going for approval.
53:36So I will provide that when needed.
53:43Thank you.
53:44That's pretty concise.
53:46Do we have any members of the audience who wish to address this application?
53:53Seeing none.
53:54Do we have any online?
53:55Chair Smith, I can confirm no online delegations.
53:58Okay.
53:59If you want to wait right there, I'll check and see if my committee members would like
54:03to ask you some questions.
54:05Committee members, do we have questions of this applicant?
54:08Member Goodfellow.
54:11Thank you, chair.
54:12And actually it's a question for city staff.
54:14So through you chair to the city staff with respect to condition number two, is there
54:22a situation that might arise where the survey may change the dimensions such that the approval
54:28we might give here tonight or this afternoon might need to be changed to adjust the dimensions
54:34that were approved for the reduced setbacks?
54:40Through the chair to member Goodfellow, I did call the applicant and we did have a discussion
54:44about that because it was a concern that our city records for this area really are nil
54:50for this property and that this drawing was based on a very up to date survey that was
54:59just completed.
55:01So we, myself and the applicant did discuss this and it is always a risk, but he was pretty
55:11confident in what was provided matches the up to date survey.
55:18Thank you.
55:19I appreciate that.
55:22Other questions for this applicant.
55:27Seeing none, I will entertain a motion.
55:37Member Sayers.
55:38I move to approve this application with the conditions recommended by staff.
55:46Thank you.
55:47And do we have a seconder?
55:49Member Spears.
55:51And is there any debate or discussion on this motion?
55:56Seeing none, I'll turn it over to secretary treasurer.
56:01Thank you, chair.
56:02Committee members, please indicate your vote on the motion, which is to approve the application
56:05with the two recommended conditions.
56:08Chair Smith.
56:09In favor.
56:10Member Klein.
56:11In favor.
56:12Member Goodfellow.
56:13In favor.
56:14Member Pike.
56:15In favor.
56:16Member Seyer.
56:17In favor.
56:18And member Spears.
56:19In favor.
56:20That's carried, chair.
56:21Your application has been approved.
56:22You're free to leave the meeting.
56:23Thank you.
56:24You're welcome.
56:25Madam secretary treasurer, do we have the next applicant, please?
56:35The next application is file A-45-23, variance to permit additional use, medical clinic with
56:46increased gross floor area at 512 Woolwood Street.
56:51For those watching online, if you wish to speak to this application, you can do so by
56:55calling the number displayed on the screen.
56:57That number is 519-822-1260, extension 2524.
57:02And when you call in staff, we'll give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely
57:06via phone.
57:07Thank you.
57:08I see the applicant is here.
57:10Can you please come forward to the podium and state your name for the record?
57:17You'll need to turn your microphone.
57:19Thank you.
57:20Good afternoon, chair.
57:23My name is Kevin Thompson.
57:24I'm a lawyer with SP law and I act for the record.
57:27I'm a lawyer with SP law and I act for the property owner for Ovia investments limited.
57:32And with me is also John Cox, the applicants land use planning consultant who I will share
57:37my 10 minutes with.
57:40Thank you.
57:41And can you tell me if the if the sign was posted as per the planning act?
57:45Yes, it was.
57:46Thank you.
57:47And have you read staff's comments?
57:49We have read staff's comments.
57:50I do have some concerns.
57:51I wish to address.
57:54Okay.
57:55You have 10 minutes to address the committee.
57:59So please feel free to do so.
58:02Thank you, chair.
58:03And I have prepared a brief PowerPoint presentation, which is now before you on the screen.
58:06We go to the next slide, please.
58:11So generally speaking, we have reviewed the staff comments.
58:14The only concern that staff noted with was with respect to conformity with the general
58:19intent and purpose of the official plan.
58:21So all three other tests staff have no concerns with.
58:24So I'm going to focus my comments on the official plan.
58:27I've got before you an aerial view of the property.
58:30And it's a very long, skinny property as a small frontage off of Woolwich Street.
58:36It extends back a significant distance and it's already developed with a 20,000 square
58:40foot commercial building at the front and a 10,000 square foot commercial building at
58:45the back.
58:46And that's been in the existing condition on the property for a significant amount of
58:49time.
58:50If we could go to the next slide, please.
58:51So just very briefly, the history of the property.
58:56And I won't bore you with too much text here, but my client who's sitting in the audience
59:00here, Mr. Dennis Weiler is the principal of Faroe V investments.
59:04He acquired the property in 1989.
59:06And almost immediately he applied for a zoning bylaw amendment to permit a number of uses
59:12under an office residential zoning designation.
59:15That OR 37 zoning has been in place since 1989.
59:19It permitted medical office and also a medical clinic under the site specific designation
59:26with a limitation of 465 square feet of square meters.
59:30I apologize.
59:31In 1989, that 20,000 square foot building at the front was constructed.
59:36And then in 1998, the second building at the back of 10,000 square feet was constructed
59:41for 35 years.
59:42This property, despite its residential designation, has operated as an office residential zone
59:49and has been developed with commercial office space to the tune of 30,000 feet.
59:55Over time, it's housed accountants, lawyers, Wellington, Dufferin, Guelph public health
1:00:00was attended for a period of time.
1:00:01If we could go to the next slide, please.
1:00:05It's very important to understand the context of the official plan designation history on
1:00:11this property.
1:00:12So in 1988, Guelph's official plan designated this property as general residential.
1:00:18And that general residential over time has morphed into what is now a low density residential
1:00:25designation on the property.
1:00:28And in that 1988 official plan, convenience commercial establishments and clinics were
1:00:35permitted as non-residential uses within that general residential designation.
1:00:42That's very important because at the time, convenience commercial establishments were
1:00:46defined in that 1988 bylaw to include medical office and medical clinic.
1:00:53So at the time the office residential zoning was put into place in 1989, it conformed with
1:00:59that official plan.
1:01:01We go to the next slide, please.
1:01:06And that's just an excerpt from that 1988 official plan, which confirms, I apologize for the
1:01:11small writing there, but it does confirm that medical office and medical clinic were both
1:01:17examples of those convenience commercial uses that were broadly under the umbrella
1:01:23of non-residential uses in a residential designation.
1:01:26Next slide, please.
1:01:27Okay, importantly, in 1994, Guelph updated its official plan.
1:01:31There's no change to the designation.
1:01:33It remained a general residential designation.
1:01:36It still permitted those convenience commercial uses in that zone or in that designation.
1:01:41But what happened here was the definition of convenience commercial was slightly tweaked
1:01:46such that the list of examples of types of uses that would fall within that commercial
1:01:51convenience commercial umbrella was modified and medical office and medical clinic were
1:01:55no longer explicitly referenced.
1:01:56But those were just some of the examples.
1:01:59And so part of the issue I take with the staff report is that the staff are of the opinion
1:02:04that this is not conformed to the official plan.
1:02:06And strictly speaking, I don't agree with that.
1:02:08The designation is low density residential.
1:02:12Low density residential permits convenience commercial uses.
1:02:16Convenience commercial uses are not defined to exclude medical office or medical clinic.
1:02:21It's an open ended list.
1:02:22So long as you meet certain compatibility criteria, Mr. Cox is going to speak to those
1:02:25compatibility criteria.
1:02:26If we go to the next slide, please.
1:02:32And then again, in the 2012 official plan, which was OP 48, which is the current official
1:02:37plan, again, the same change was brought forward into the current official plan designation.
1:02:43So the effect of all these changes is that the 1994 plan would have been the opportunity
1:02:50for my client to perhaps appeal the change in that definition of convenience commercial
1:02:56uses.
1:02:57But he had no reason to do so because he had his OR 37 zoning, which permitted medical
1:03:01office and which permitted medical clinic limited to 465 square meters.
1:03:07And so that zoning was deemed to conform with the official plan.
1:03:11And so that's a use permission that he had right up until April of 2023 when the new
1:03:162023 zoning bylaw came into force and actually removed medical office and medical clinic
1:03:21has permitted uses on this property.
1:03:23And so we're here before you today seeking a variance.
1:03:27But he's also appealed that 2023 zoning bylaws or relates to his property seeking to retain
1:03:33the existing permissions that he has on his property for both medical office and medical
1:03:37clinic.
1:03:38Granted, we are before you seeking an expansion of the square footage of the medical clinic
1:03:43designation.
1:03:44And I'm going to turn things over to Mr. Cox momentarily to speak to the merits of that.
1:03:48Next slide, please.
1:03:51And again, I've mentioned most of this, but the 1989 zoning is simply carried forward.
1:03:58Those permissions existed up until April of this year.
1:04:01Next slide, please.
1:04:04And I apologize for the small writing it again.
1:04:06Again, the overall thrust of my position is that we're here before you today to simply
1:04:12reestablish uses that were permitted up until April of this year and also expand the area
1:04:18of the uses.
1:04:19I'll turn things over to John Cox now to speak to the planning merits.
1:04:27Thank you, Kevin.
1:04:29Mr. Chair, committee members, I'm going to go into a little bit more detail about the
1:04:35relationship of this property to the official plan.
1:04:38As Kevin mentioned, the list that was provided going back into earlier versions of the official
1:04:44plan was not an exhaustive list, but it did provide some examples.
1:04:48And at one point in time, that did include medical clinic and medical office as potential
1:04:53uses on the property.
1:04:54What didn't change is the tests as to whether use is considered to fit within that is a
1:05:00non-residential use is considered to fit within the official plan designation.
1:05:07And that's in section 9.3.1.2 of the official plan.
1:05:11And the first and probably most important test is compatibility.
1:05:14Actually, it would be helpful if we could go back to the one slide of the air photo of
1:05:18the property.
1:05:19Thank you.
1:05:20First is compatibility.
1:05:22Nothing is being proposed on this property that would change the footprint of the building,
1:05:27access to the building, parking, where it's located.
1:05:30It will continue to function in the same manner as a commercial office building that
1:05:33has for a number of years.
1:05:36The immediate neighbors to the property to the north are a large apartment building.
1:05:41And if we get back to the air photo, you will see that right beside this building is the
1:05:46parking lot for that larger apartment building.
1:05:49To the rear is the city of Guelph Water Tower.
1:05:53And to the south of the subject property is the part of the rail trail that extends over
1:06:01to the main Royal recreational trail.
1:06:04So again, the use is compatible with what's in the neighborhood.
1:06:08It has coexisted in this neighborhood for, as Kevin mentioned, some 35 years.
1:06:13We did complete a parking analysis in the event that a medical clinic was going to have
1:06:17an impact that would have a prejudicial effect on the property.
1:06:22And the parking analysis confirmed that using the parking calculations provided in the new
1:06:272023 official plan, there is more than adequate parking to accommodate a medical clinic on
1:06:32the property using a couple of different approaches.
1:06:36One is to individualize the uses.
1:06:38The other is to use the plaza development type approach, given that there are different
1:06:44uses in the property and those can change over time.
1:06:48In terms of other uses, the site has direct access to an Artulio Road, which is Woodlawn,
1:06:54which is another of the criteria in the official plan.
1:06:57So in our opinion, the site is suited to what has been an historic use of the property and
1:07:04there will be no functional change to the property that results in any impact on the
1:07:07surrounding neighborhood.
1:07:10To briefly comment on the staff report, staff concluded that the property met three of the
1:07:17four tests.
1:07:18I'm just going to interrupt you and let you know you have a minute left.
1:07:22No problem.
1:07:24The three tests, the official plan we spoke to, the remaining are that the complies with
1:07:34or it meets the general intent of the zoning bylaw and staff agreed that it does and also
1:07:40that the development is minor in nature and desirable for the development of the lands
1:07:44on which the proposal is being made.
1:07:47Lastly, I want to note that there is very little likelihood that the current use of the property
1:07:52is going to change, notwithstanding the official plan designation.
1:07:56But if it should, nothing in the committee's approval of this application, should they decide
1:08:01to do so, it's going to have any impact on whether someone might in the future decide
1:08:06to redevelop the property for residential purposes.
1:08:09It would not have any impact on the ability to do that.
1:08:13Thank you.
1:08:14Thank you.
1:08:15I was just going to say your time, Seth.
1:08:17So well done.
1:08:20At this point, I'm going to see if there's any members of the audience who would like
1:08:24to address this presentation.
1:08:29Seeing none, Madam Secretary Treasurer, do we have any online?
1:08:32Chair Smith, I can confirm no online delegations.
1:08:36Thank you.
1:08:37If you want to wait right there, I'm sure our committee members may have a few questions
1:08:41for you and for staff.
1:08:43Committee members, members, speakers.
1:08:48Through you, Mr. Chair, to staff.
1:08:51It strikes me that the big hurdle here is the difference in size.
1:08:56And I'm curious if staff has an opinion on the practical impact of making this a much
1:09:02larger business space or medical space, what impact that would have on anything, the community,
1:09:09the use of the property, as opposed to sticking to the 400 and change square meters that's
1:09:15listed in the current Bible?
1:09:26To the member through the chair, staff are satisfied that the zoning regulations, such
1:09:34as parking and others are adequately addressed through with the addition or with the existing
1:09:43size of buildings on the site.
1:09:47As the applicant mentioned, the concern here is that the use itself is no longer permitted
1:09:53through the official plan and therefore no longer permitted in the 2023 zoning bylaw
1:09:59as adopted.
1:10:04Thank you.
1:10:05Member Goodfellow.
1:10:08Yes, thank you, Chair.
1:10:11So through the chair to the applicant, I appreciated the history of the site.
1:10:15I was kind of curious about, you know, how long it had been used for office space.
1:10:22My question to you is whether or not that site has previously been used for medical office
1:10:27or clinic in the history since 1989.
1:10:35The owner advises no.
1:10:37Thank you through you, Mr. Chair.
1:10:39Okay.
1:10:40Thank you.
1:10:41I have a follow up question then.
1:10:44The 1100 and something square meters.
1:10:48How many practitioners does that equal?
1:10:54How many doctors?
1:10:55I think that really depends on the nature of the practice.
1:10:59You'll have some doctors that work part-time and work full-time.
1:11:02So I can't give you an exact answer the number of full-time equivalents.
1:11:07But I would turn to Dennis to see if he has an idea of what the proposed tenant is suggesting
1:11:1515.
1:11:16But again, I would caution that's just an estimate.
1:11:19There is a proposed tenant lined up and that's sort of the urgency of bringing an application
1:11:23before you now as opposed to awaiting the outcome of the zoning bylaw amendment appeal.
1:11:29It's for this property seeking to retain those use permissions.
1:11:33And of course, I know that there is a square footage limitation of 465 square meters.
1:11:37So we'd be before this committee in any event seeking the expansion of that square footage.
1:11:43Okay.
1:11:44Thank you.
1:11:45I appreciate that answer.
1:11:46And I'm sorry.
1:11:47Finally, one, one additional question for you.
1:11:49And then I've actually got a question for staff as well.
1:11:53So the other, the other users of that building, I know that last month we approved a daycare
1:12:00usage for that building.
1:12:02But the, the rest of the space, how is that currently being used?
1:12:09As you had mentioned, a daycare center is a becoming a tenant of the property and the
1:12:13remaining space in the building is offices based currently.
1:12:19And it would be, sorry, through the chair, but would that be professional services, accountants,
1:12:25engineers, lawyers, those kinds of folks?
1:12:27Yes, I think that summarizes it.
1:12:32Accountants.
1:12:33Okay.
1:12:34Yes.
1:12:36And sorry to ask for your patience here, but I do have a couple of questions for city staff.
1:12:40Please go ahead.
1:12:43One of the questions that came to my mind as I was reading through the official plan was
1:12:48there are a couple of sections in the official plan that talk about community infrastructure
1:12:53and, you know, urban form, compact urban form.
1:12:57I noted in there that there are references to offering services in the community that
1:13:05contribute to the quality of life, future residents of all ages.
1:13:10You know, I think to me there seem to be some reason why this kind of offering of health
1:13:19services in the community might still fit within the official plan, but I'm not a planner.
1:13:25So I'm asking for your interpretation of those sections and to understand why medical
1:13:31offices and clinic might not fit within some of those, I guess, sections of the official
1:13:38plan.
1:13:44So through the chair, to member a good fellow, I think that's actually a really good question.
1:13:52However, with regards to the interpretation of convenience commercial, medical clinic
1:13:59and medical office are not permitted uses and they don't fall under that.
1:14:03It's our official plan does define convenience commercial and does specifically lists those,
1:14:10does not include those.
1:14:12And regardless, even if you were to say that they are convenience commercially do serve
1:14:17the community, the official plan does limit convenience commercial uses to a maximum growth
1:14:23floor area of 400 square meters.
1:14:28Thank you.
1:14:29That's really helpful.
1:14:30I guess it follow up question to because I do understand that it's not listed.
1:14:37But I also recognize that there is some language in the official plan about institutional uses
1:14:42in appropriate areas of the neighborhood.
1:14:46And I don't know how things are defined or where the distinction is drawn.
1:14:51So I'm curious on your thoughts on how this might fall within more of an institutional
1:14:57view.
1:15:01Through the chair to member good fellow, I wouldn't consider a medical clinic that's privately
1:15:08owned or operated to be an institutional uses.
1:15:12Institutional uses are more like schools, places of worship, hospitals, those type of
1:15:20uses are technically permitted.
1:15:22So the non residential uses in our official plan under policy 9.3 point 1.2 does permit
1:15:30a variety of the small scale resident non residential uses.
1:15:34And those would include schools, places of worship, childcare centers, parks, trails,
1:15:40recreation facilities, those are all permitted.
1:15:43There's no maximum GFA attached to schools, places of worship, those type of other uses
1:15:50that would serve the community.
1:15:51But the official plan is clear in terms of convenience commercial uses being limited
1:15:55to a maximum gross floor area of 400 square meters on a property.
1:16:01So what the applicants proposing is asking for is essentially almost three times the
1:16:07amount of even if if we were to say it was convenience commercial, which staff's position
1:16:12is it is not.
1:16:13But if you were to think it was, it would still exceed it by almost three times what
1:16:19the maximum permitted in the official plan is.
1:16:24Thank you.
1:16:25Very helpful.
1:16:27And really one final one.
1:16:30Because I also noticed too that there there were site specific convenience commercial
1:16:35zones that had been created.
1:16:37And there was medical clinic that had been added to some of those convenience
1:16:41commercial zones.
1:16:43In those cases, then would you still be limit would they still be limited to that
1:16:48400 some odd square meters?
1:16:56Through the chair to member Goodfell.
1:16:58Could I get clarity on the question?
1:17:00Are you asking about specific other specific sites in the city or?
1:17:05Yeah, just trying to get an understanding of because there are my reading is that
1:17:10there are addresses where medical clinic has been added to the convenience
1:17:17commercial zone and trying to understand if those sites would still be limited to
1:17:24the 400 and some odd square meters.
1:17:27So it's hard to say in terms of what properties we're talking about because we
1:17:32we have done recently site specific official plan and zoning bylaw amendments
1:17:37to permit medical clinics at other properties.
1:17:41If the existing zoning does already permit a medical clinic or medical office in
1:17:47the zoning.
1:17:47So in this in this case, I think for this, it's a little bit over 400 square
1:17:52meters would that's already permitted in the 1995 bylaw.
1:17:58So if it's permitted in the zoning bylaw, it wouldn't be limited to the 400 square
1:18:02meters.
1:18:03Like that's why you have the additional whatever it is, 65 square meters or
1:18:08whatever it is for this property.
1:18:10But because of the 2023 bylaw, it has to conform with the official plan.
1:18:17That's in effect at the time of passing the comprehensive zoning bylaw.
1:18:23If new sites were to be zoned and permit medical offices or medical clinics,
1:18:26they would be limited to the 400 square meters.
1:18:28But if we'd have to look at on a site specific basis, I'm not 100% sure if
1:18:33you're referring to a specific site because that could be a historical use
1:18:37that it already exists.
1:18:39And if it, for instance, if it was a different land use designation, because
1:18:45there's also different land use designations that do permit medical
1:18:49offices such as like the mixed office commercial and use designation, which is
1:18:52along Woolwich Street.
1:18:53So there's other properties right along Woolwich Street that are different in
1:18:57the official plan that would permit medical offices.
1:19:02Thank you.
1:19:03I really appreciate all of that detail.
1:19:05Very helpful.
1:19:08Thank you, Member Goodfellow.
1:19:11Colleagues, do I have any other questions?
1:19:16I do have a couple of questions.
1:19:20Staff, I'm, and this is to staff, I'm curious, this really strikes me as more of
1:19:30a rezoning application rather than a minor variance.
1:19:35Is that what I'm hearing in some of your answers?
1:19:41Tooth the chair.
1:19:44This type of use would actually require an official plan amendment and a zoning
1:19:48bylaw amendment because it's not in the list of a convenience commercial use and
1:19:54it also exceeds the maximum.
1:19:57If it was considered a convenience commercial use, it would exceed it by a
1:20:00almost three times because it is limited to the 400 square meters.
1:20:04If that's what the applicant is saying, they would consider it convenience commercial.
1:20:08So either way, it wouldn't meet the general intent and purpose of the official plan.
1:20:13That's sort of where I'm arriving.
1:20:18Even under the 465 square meters.
1:20:22That's about 5000 square feet. That's huge for a clinic.
1:20:26In my professional experience in designing such spaces.
1:20:30So I tend to think it.
1:20:34I agree with staff.
1:20:37And at this point, if we have normal questions for the applicant, I would consider a motion.
1:20:46No, I will move that we accept this application.
1:20:56Do I have a seconder member sayers.
1:21:03We have any discussion.
1:21:09Member good fellow.
1:21:12I, um, I think the medical clinic use makes sense to me.
1:21:17But I am concerned about the size of the clinic. And so.
1:21:24I would be.
1:21:27I would be opposed to the motion as stated.
1:21:31But I would be open to a motion to approve.
1:21:35With a condition to limit the square footage to the 400 some odd square meters.
1:21:44Um, any other discussion.
1:21:48I won't support this motion. I believe that it's rezoning by another means.
1:21:53I don't think it's going to be a motion to approve the test that's been.
1:21:59That's professional staff have, uh, have raised.
1:22:02So I won't be supporting this either.
1:22:07Um,
1:22:08Just the way it's been presented.
1:22:12We have any more questions or comments on the motion at hand.
1:22:18Seeing none. I will, um, we have a motion to accept.
1:22:23Uh, and I think that's a good question.
1:22:26Uh, I think that's a good question. Um,
1:22:28Uh,
1:22:29Uh,
1:22:30Secretary treasurer to call that vote.
1:22:32Thank you, chair committee members. Please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion, which is to approve the application.
1:22:40Chair Smith opposed.
1:22:42Member Klein.
1:22:44Opposed.
1:22:46Member good fellow.
1:22:48Opposed.
1:22:49Member pike.
1:22:51Chair Smith.
1:22:52Chair Smith.
1:22:53Senator Smith.
1:22:54In favor.
1:22:56That's not Carrie chair.
1:23:01Okay, that has been defeated.
1:23:04Um, at this point I'll turn for some advice to secretary treasurer.
1:23:09Can we, I know there was some discussion about an alternative.
1:23:12Um, is that something that we can entertain?
1:23:19we would be looking for the committee to put another motion on the floor.
1:23:23So I will turn to my colleagues.
1:23:25And if there was a second motion
1:23:31that substantially is different than the motion that was defeated,
1:23:36I'd entertain that member. Good fellow.
1:23:41I move to approve the application, but within a new condition,
1:23:47limiting the square footage to
1:23:50and I'm looking rapidly for the number
1:23:53four hundred and sixty five four hundred and sixty four point five meters squared.
1:24:00Do we have before I ask for a seconder on that,
1:24:03I'd like to reach out to the applicant and see if you would be acceptable of that.
1:24:15I haven't had a chance to fur with my client.
1:24:18I mean, it's it's in the committee's hands at this point in terms of what you do with that.
1:24:23And obviously, the appeal rights still remain for both whatever decision is made.
1:24:29But I think there's just some conferencing going on right now if you can bear with us for 30 seconds.
1:24:33Certainly, at that point, I will see if we have support for a seconder for that motion.
1:24:39Do I have a seconder? Member Pike has seconded that.
1:24:48Mr. Chair, Mr. Chair, the the proposal
1:24:58doesn't necessarily help us with this particular tenant, but again, we're in the committee's hands as to whether you want to move forward with this motion.
1:25:07OK, we have a motion on the floor.
1:25:10Do we have any discussion? Yeah, I have a I'm just something I want to understand.
1:25:15We're talking about a medical clinic office of a certain size.
1:25:22Where we all was talking about a single clinic, a single tenant taking up that huge space.
1:25:28Or is it a possibility that that same gross amount of space could be split into two separate
1:25:36tendencies that would fall within the context or the size that is in the plan?
1:25:45The variance as proposed would allow for multiple clinics up to that maximum size proposed.
1:25:53What we have right now is a tenant that requires that amount of space.
1:25:57But if the application is proposed, doesn't preclude future uses, I think the tenant at 8000 square feet.
1:26:10I stand corrected. There's there are actually two tenants, one with 8000 square feet and one with seeking 4000 square feet.
1:26:22Any other comment on the motion we have?
1:26:32Just member Goodfellow. Thank you. Just one comment because I just quickly googled.
1:26:37Yeah, the 464.5 square meters that we're talking about is 5000 square feet.
1:26:44So to put the applicants comments into context.
1:26:49Thank you. I'm personally still of the opinion agreeing with staff and I won't be supporting this motion.
1:27:01If there's no other conversation, I will turn it over to the secretary, treasure for a vote.
1:27:07Thank you, chair committee members, please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion, which is to approve the application with a condition limiting the
1:27:16size of the use to a maximum of 464.5 square meters.
1:27:21Chair Smith. Opposed. Member Klein.
1:27:25Opposed. Member Goodfellow. In favor.
1:27:29Member Pike. In favor.
1:27:32Member Seher. In favor.
1:27:35Member Spears. In favor.
1:27:38That's carry chair.
1:27:41Your amended application has been approved here for you to leave the meeting.
1:27:50Madam secretary, treasure. May we have the next applicant please.
1:28:06The next application is file B dash 10 slash 23 consent to create new residential lot with one retained lot.
1:28:14I'll also note for the committee members as well as those attending that conditions were revised for this file.
1:28:22The planning condition number two, the timing has been revised to be required prior to certificate and that revised wording has been provided to the committee members as well as the applicant.
1:28:37I'll also note for those attending are watching the hearing online. If you wish to speak to this application, you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen that numbers 5198201260 extension 2524.
1:28:51Welcome, please state your name for the record and your association.
1:28:58Jeff Beasman, the agent for the property owner, Mark engine.
1:29:02And Rebecca and Hatton and
1:29:06I'm here to present the presentation and James Dennis from the budan associates.
1:29:11We'll take a few minutes of this presentation as well.
1:29:14Thank you, Mr. Puse. And then can you tell me if the sign was posted as per the planning act? Yes, it was.
1:29:20And have you read staff's comments and are you in agreement? Yes, we have read the comments and we are in agreement.
1:29:27Awesome. Well, do you have your 10 minutes? Okay.
1:29:31If you could throw the sketch on.
1:29:35This is a proposal for a severance at the corner of her and Chadwick.
1:29:42You can see that the two parcels will be oriented to face her.
1:29:48And that the new lot will be the vacant space. That's going to be a corner lot.
1:29:53To the top or to the north there.
1:29:56The parcels have been designed to conform with zoning. We've provided a sample footprint of a possible dwelling to show that conforms zoning.
1:30:05That dwelling footprint would be 174 square meters for the footprint of the, of the building that includes the garage.
1:30:15After reviewing all the comments and concerns of all the neighbors, the primary issue would be that there's a black walnut tree at the corner right at the street corner.
1:30:28I can't point to it, but it's right at the street corner. So top right of the proposed severance. If you see that there.
1:30:34It's a fairly significant tree and it's a major concern for everyone, including our property owner.
1:30:42He made clear to me this, this, this afternoon that tree is going to be saved no matter what, like, I'm not, if a house can't be built.
1:30:50Then, then, then with that, it won't be built because I'm going to save that tree, but we have hired James Dennis and Arborus from a buddham associate to give us a, he's reviewed the tree and give a preliminary assessment or review of it.
1:31:04I wouldn't mind if he just speaks to it for a minute or two.
1:31:07Welcome. Can you state your name please?
1:31:14Yeah. Thank you, chair. My name is James Dennis.
1:31:18I'm a certified Arborist.
1:31:20And I'll just say that I did look at the tree yesterday and measured it at 114 centimeters diameter.
1:31:28At 1.4 meters above grade. So it's quite large. The canopy drip line is approximately 26 meters in width.
1:31:37And in terms of the proposed severance and potential development.
1:31:43My, my, my objective viewpoint is that the tree can be saved.
1:31:51Of course, it constrains the development. It will constrain how and where things go and how they're constructed.
1:32:02But in my experience, I've seen much more challenging situations be successful.
1:32:09So at this point, I think that for the severance and for the condition to be fulfilled for the deed to be issued.
1:32:20We will have to go through some fairly extensive design considerations, considering the tree as a constraint.
1:32:28And I mean, the options are, we do have options in terms of what.
1:32:37What design kind of approaches we take to.
1:32:42Putting the house like constructing the foundation.
1:32:47And to installing the driveway.
1:32:50And even the elevations. So.
1:32:55Short is it is a significant tree, significant tree. It is healthy. It's, it's quite impressive.
1:33:03And it should be and can be preserved. I think with the right design.
1:33:15Thanks, James. So that leads to the wording of questions.
1:33:19Condition to, I should say that fundamentally that the design and tree.
1:33:24The tree inventory preservation plan be prepared to the satisfaction of the, of the city staff.
1:33:31And that would be done as a condition and prior to the issuance of the deed of the property.
1:33:37The other small comment I should make is that.
1:33:40That has been a concern a bit is the drainage the property.
1:33:45Has quite significant fall on it now from north to south and we recognize that and it will be designed in accordance with city standards for drainage and.
1:33:57That it's done properly and that again, there's a condition.
1:34:01For a grading plan prior to the issuance of the deed to the satisfaction of the city.
1:34:06So, I think all the concerns that have been addressed are adequately satisfied with the conditions and seek really the, the committee's approval and be happy to answer any questions.
1:34:19Thank you very much.
1:34:22Is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak to this application.
1:34:28Yes, please come forward to the microphone.
1:34:31Hi, can you state your name for the record please.
1:34:42Yes, hello. My name is Jamie Miller.
1:34:45Welcome you have 10 minutes in which to address the committee.
1:34:49Thank you chair. Thank you committee. My name is Jamie Miller. I'm a homeowner on her and Avenue.
1:34:56I'm a very proud member of Guelph. I hold a PhD in ecological engineering and urban resilience.
1:35:01I'm also a local business owner running a sustainability consultancy that's an award winning based here in Guelph.
1:35:06And I'm also a global director of biomimicry for an international design firm.
1:35:11So I come today to speak to this particular application as a neighbor and as an experienced professional.
1:35:18As you know, there is a significant black walnut.
1:35:22We miscalculated in our early letter to the committee that it was 79 or 75 years old estimated but we've been since informed that it's about 177 years old.
1:35:34It's one of an arborist nearby said it's perhaps one of the oldest trees in our neighborhood.
1:35:38And as mentioned, the breast height is about 114 centimeters. So it's a significant tree.
1:35:48Within our community, we were quite concerned with this application.
1:35:53We have members that are urban planners. We have urban designers.
1:35:57We have landscape architects who have all kind of come to a similar conclusion that any disruption to the site would have significant enough impacts on this root system.
1:36:05And therefore this tree that it would potentially kill it most likely kill it.
1:36:09So any foundation would sever a significant portion of these roots, which would eliminate the capacity to transport nutrients, obviously, but also that severance would also impact the structural integrity of this tree.
1:36:21And I'm sure the arborist could speak more to this, but you can imagine a cantilever.
1:36:25These root systems act as a part of its foundational.
1:36:27So any severance on one side at this height and the significance of a tree would have major impacts on its structural integrity.
1:36:34Further, this is as mentioned a pretty deep depression.
1:36:37So infilling this would add significant pressure onto these roots, limiting the capacity for water to get to them if they weren't severed in the first place.
1:36:47So there's massive disruption potential happening to any construction on this site, and that's not even including any heavy machinery that would have to be put on the site.
1:36:57So also any topography changes would change the drainage of the area, which is a concern for our neighbors, and it would also lead to potential suffocating of this tree.
1:37:09I think the point to really make clear is that this tree has been spending almost two centuries refining its design to fit its current conditions.
1:37:18Any major disruption to those conditions is going to have a major impact on the life of this tree and the success of this tree.
1:37:24This is a part of our major concern.
1:37:28And so, yes, from my perspective, it seems like anything would have major impacts.
1:37:33Another part of our concern is that we recognize that the applicant is not of our neighborhood, and I'm not sure the intention of these two homes, but if the intention is to potentially sell them in the future, he does not get to, or they do not get to,
1:37:45experience the fundamental shift that would happen to this tree and therefore this community.
1:37:53So some things I want to make super clear.
1:37:55Our neighborhood is known for its tree canopy. We have an incredibly lined street with maples and Oaks that are up to 100 years old.
1:38:02With a recent infill development, we lost five of those due to a infill development.
1:38:08Losing this walnut would have significant impact on the nature of our environment, but also with this new fungus, this oak fungus that's now coming up from the United States and impacting Ontario Oaks.
1:38:20Most of our major trees are oak trees, and so if we have that natural disaster applied to this human disaster, we have a recipe for major impact to our local climate.
1:38:31So I will quickly speak to that. This is not just a tree in my perspective. This is something that has much greater implications.
1:38:37So I'll say this.
1:38:41We know that trees are a major contributor to storm dissipation. So whether it's rain or wind, these leaves acts as dissipation to help manage and protect our infrastructure in our homes.
1:38:52For rain, it dissipates that rain energy that's coming down, acting almost like a filter, which helps city infrastructure sewer systems and water management systems.
1:39:04This is like a giant straw as well. So in this infill development, this depression, this tree is absorbing incredible volumes of water, which would ultimately be lost and again put into sewer systems and pressure on the infrastructure of the city.
1:39:21With the recent forest fires, this tree is freely sequestering and filtering key pollutants such as NOX, SOX and particular matter 10, which is important for our physical health, especially in this neighborhood, which has a lot of elderly people.
1:39:35By its very nature, this tree produces oxygen, which on average, each resident in Guelph requires seven trees to produce the air for our breath.
1:39:46It also freely sequesters CO2, which in the context of climate change is obviously important. And in fact, it's a better sequestering technology than anything that we clever humans have yet to make.
1:39:57So leaving it there is more cost effective than trying to design a reengineer carbon sequestration solution to replace that.
1:40:06For its shade, the tree drastically impacts the microclimate and local temperature, which has significant impact on urban heat island effects.
1:40:14And more locally, our need for consumptive air conditioners and cooling devices.
1:40:18And as we can struggle to reduce speeds in the city, trees have been proven to provide a passive traffic calming strategy, especially something this large.
1:40:29As the city seeks to increase its urban forest canopy, this tree sits as one of your greatest allies and your giants.
1:40:35And in an attempt to approve mental health connection to nature has quantifiably been proven through research that our connection to nature reduces our stress, it reduces our heart rate and improves our concentration and provides an overall physical and psychological benefit.
1:40:53So there's something called biofilling design, which is related to this positive impact on the human brain and to the human condition.
1:41:02So overall, what I'm saying is that I estimate that this tree can provide up to 100,000 hundreds of thousands of dollars of free ecological services that would otherwise have to be replenished through engineering services, engineering design.
1:41:15And I think it's a better off left, as said.
1:41:22One thing I'll mention to that in the plan, you saw to that it was a general outline a vague outline of a tree canopy.
1:41:30And so one of my recommendations is to also improve the application process to highlight some of these ecological services in a more defined way, whether it's locating the trunk and the size of the trunk so that you as a committee and members can identify where those significant ecological assets are.
1:41:48And finally, I'll say that my proposal today is the safest thing and perhaps the most cost effective thing is to deny this application.
1:41:59And I would recommend that future infill developments hold higher standards for the natural assets that are currently on site. Thank you very much for your time.
1:42:08Thank you. And if you want to stand by, perhaps committee members may have questions.
1:42:16Committee members, do you have any questions for this delegate? I do. Yes, members here.
1:42:26Here, this is through you, Mr. Chair. This is pure curiosity, but given that the sense that it's maybe 170 years old, what what is the typical life expectancy of a tree of this size.
1:42:37It's expected to live another 200 years is what I've researched.
1:42:40I do have one question of the delegate and that is, you heard the applicants presentation, I'm sure, and their commitment that this tree will be saved, I think, is what Mr. Buseman said.
1:42:58What's your impression of that?
1:43:00I do appreciate the sentiment and I'm very hopeful that that would be the case if this application went through. However, tree canopies are a rule of thumb is traditionally the root structure follows the same drip line of the tree canopy.
1:43:16So this tree canopy, as you see on the image, meets almost that second house, the house that's being proposed to sever, which means that the root systems infiltrate that entire land and the proposed lot outline would sever.
1:43:32I don't know a percentage but a very significant portion of those roots. So, and I understand, you know, there's a desire to find a design that would appease that root system.
1:43:44But as a designer myself designing systems around the world, I feel fairly confident that a traditional foundation or anything that would require significant infillness would have enough impact on this tree to render it dead.
1:43:59Thank you. Thanks.
1:44:02Any members any other questions seeing none.
1:44:05Thank you very much for your presentation. Thank you very well done.
1:44:10Do we have any other people who would like to delegate towards this application. Good evening. Can you state your name for the record please.
1:44:25Hello there. Thanks for having me. I'm Jill Francis.
1:44:30And I might be the youngest voice to come to the committee of adjustment.
1:44:36I'm 20 years old and I just felt it was really important to speak for
1:44:45future generations that could be impacted.
1:44:51Yeah, so I just want to thank I, I'm tearing up but that's okay.
1:45:00Yeah, I want to take your time. There's no pressure. You have 10 minutes.
1:45:06Thank you. I just want to thank my neighbor I'm also really close by to this tree I'm on Chadwick Avenue.
1:45:15And I've been doing a bunch of research about black walnuts.
1:45:21And I found this article that was written by.
1:45:25Let's see.
1:45:28He's through the native plant society.
1:45:32And his name is Harold Smith. Yeah, he's the director of the North American native plant society.
1:45:44And he wrote a very informative article in praise of black walnut trees.
1:45:52And so I'll quote a little bit from there.
1:45:59Black walnuts provide an important source of protein and fats for wildlife of all kinds such as many birds and small animals such as squirrels who eat black walnuts and birds are also attracted to black walnuts.
1:46:15The Baltimore Oriole, the Blue Jay, Northern Cardinal, white crown sparrow to name a few.
1:46:21And yeah, with today's species extinction and climate change it's crucial to have native plants to attract these pollinators and stress.
1:46:30And it also states that it takes the work of 250 saplings to do the work, the same as a large tree and also having researched that black walnuts have an extremely deep tap root system.
1:46:45So of course, any development would severely impacted.
1:46:51And they also host up to 130 species of butterfly and moth larvae.
1:47:00And lastly, I thought this was also vital was that the University of Delaware's Dr. Doug Talamie who is a professor and chair for entomology which is the study of insects as well as wildlife ecology.
1:47:16And it also states that walnuts are among the leading native plants for sustaining caterpillars, which become valuable moth and butterfly pollinators, which is essential for biodiversity.
1:47:31Yeah. So I feel like you have a beautiful opportunity today to make a decision that will help life continue itself life wants to continue itself, even though we're in a really tricky time right now.
1:47:50So, yeah, I sincerely hope that that you'll vote against this application. Thank you.
1:47:56Thank you. If you want to wait for a moment.
1:48:00Some of my colleagues may have some questions for you. Yeah, no problem. Feel free to ask anything.
1:48:07We have any questions for this applicant.
1:48:10Delegate seeing none. I'll ask you the same question that I asked your predecessor. Yeah, that is.
1:48:20You heard Mr. Buceman state that.
1:48:25This tree will be saved. Does that impact any of the points you've made.
1:48:34Yeah, of course. I mean, it's very similar to if.
1:48:38If it was a person, you know, and like.
1:48:43You're going to do this thing to a person that's going to severely impact its life. Like, of course, it's going to be affected. Does that mean it's still going to be saved? Like, not really in its entirety, right?
1:48:57So, like I said, with the deep tap root system that I've researched through the native plant society of Ontario there.
1:49:07It can't be entirely saved if there's a development. So I think we both made that clear my neighbor and I.
1:49:14So yeah, thanks for your time tonight. And thank you very much for your comments. Take care.
1:49:23Do we have any other delegates who would like to speak to this application? Good evening. Good evening. Would you like to state your name for the record please.
1:49:40My name is Janie Mendoza and I'm a community member that lives just a couple of blocks away from where this application is being.
1:49:47And you have 10 minutes to address the committee. Thank you.
1:49:52I just wanted to point out two things. The first is that we began this session with a land acknowledgement. We are all living on treaty land.
1:50:02And the second point is that the application has stated.
1:50:09They will do everything in their power to ensure that this tree survives.
1:50:17So I want to pose the question, will they not be able to do that?
1:50:21I think that the applicant has stated.
1:50:25They will do everything in their power to ensure that this tree survives.
1:50:31So I want to pose the question, will they not build because it's clear to me that based on some expert opinions that we have today, which I don't believe the applicants hold.
1:50:42There will probably be a severe impact, terminal impact to the tree if building as proposed, even with the intent of wanting to save it, but as proposed a k a to build will result in.
1:50:57So those are my points. I'm opposed to this application.
1:51:01I live in the neighborhood.
1:51:04I'm also, you know, following the 2019, I believe, or the current plan to double the canopies and Guelph within the next 10 years.
1:51:16If this tree dies as five other trees have died in this in the junction area.
1:51:23It goes against that intent as well. So, thank you for your time.
1:51:29And if you want to wait, I'll see if my colleagues have any questions for you.
1:51:36Seeing none. Thank you very much for your presentation.
1:51:41We have any other members of the audience who wish to delegate.
1:51:58Welcome. Can you state your name for the record please. Yes, my name is Norma Mendoza and I'm here with me.
1:52:04My name is Leone who's nine.
1:52:07We felt compelled to come today as citizens and community members who live just a two minute walk from this tree to invite the committee to just look up above you.
1:52:18And you see this round incredible like lighting structure.
1:52:23The tree is bigger. The canopy is majestic and it is actually as large if not larger and more expensive than what's above you.
1:52:32One of the reasons we moved to that neighborhood was not just that tree, but all of the commitments of the community members.
1:52:40There's a great organization in the junction that really prioritizes community care.
1:52:46You know, engagement with nature engagement with the woodlands in our area.
1:52:51And I feel that this would have a devastating impact on the community members.
1:52:58And I think that this is a tree that my children and I walk by every single day multiple times a day. You know, we engage with that area so frequently and the thought of that tree being cut down to, you know, service a couple of buildings.
1:53:18And I think that this just doesn't align with not only the material commitment that the city has made to actually expanding forest station and expanding the tree growth in the, in not just in our neighborhood, but citywide, but also really does prioritize.
1:53:37I'm something that's material over something that's natural and majestic and wonderful and existing.
1:53:43And the only one to say a couple words. No, you're okay with that. So, so we're just here as community members also to oppose this application.
1:53:54And I think that if we are, you know, listening to the expert testimony or expert, you know, statements today that say that the root system is as expansive as the canopy, you can imagine just by, you know, a very like rough idea of what this canopy looks like above you
1:54:12and what it looks like in the ground. And so this idea of being able to, you know, safely, respectfully, expertly build in a way that doesn't disturb that is, I think, pretty much impossible.
1:54:25So thank you today for your time and for listening to us as citizens and community members of this neighborhood that we love and live in.
1:54:34Thank you.
1:54:35And if you want to wait right there, I'll see if any of my colleagues have any questions. Seeing none, I will ask you what I've asked others and that is, you have heard the proponents commitment to save this tree does that impact your statement at all.
1:54:55So I appreciate the desire to want to incorporate or, you know, some, I think the intent to save and this idea of guaranteeing to save doesn't really do much once you start to cut away at the land and you want to start to actually disturb the land.
1:55:17The best thing to do is to leave the tree alone and to leave that area alone.
1:55:24Thank you very much.
1:55:26Thank you.
1:55:28Do we have any other delegates in the auditorium who wish to speak to this motion seeing none secretary treasure do we have any online who would like to speak and delegate to this motion.
1:55:44Chair Smith, I can confirm we haven't received any online delegations.
1:55:48Thank you.
1:55:50I'm wondering if the proponent would like to answer some of the questions that have been raised.
1:55:57Mr. Chair, speaking again with Mark over here, the property owner, speaking it very clear that that he's doing it, he will ensure if the designs from our arborist and the city staffs arborist can't come up with a successful design.
1:56:16He'll walk away from the severance, not build a house and not move forward.
1:56:21He's got that very strict mandate himself to keep this tree.
1:56:26So I think one question was, will they, you know, come to the point of not even building the house. Yes, they will come to the point of, if we can't do it.
1:56:34The severance, the severance can't be a fan ish because we can't get a plan and a design that's going to save this tree.
1:56:41So I guess we're asking the committee to approve the application with the conditions and that we rely on the experts of tree protection and the design because the design is going to incorporate what kind of house where the, how high this is going to be the grading of the house.
1:57:00What kind of driveway is going to have a whole pile of different things involved in it.
1:57:05And we're saying that if we have the design at the end of the day that everybody says, yeah, this is going to work. So we're just saying the committee.
1:57:13Please, we ask secure approval and let the conditions run its course to make fulfill the severance to its, its ultimate goal of in appropriate intensification.
1:57:28You good.
1:57:34Why'd you come mark.
1:57:40Hi, can you state your name. My name is Mark ancient.
1:57:44I am the owner. I am my, my, I am in my wife.
1:57:49And I just maybe a quick background. The reason we actually ended up buying this property was because there were some other builders slash developers that wanted to buy it.
1:58:01And the owner at the time.
1:58:04When he met my wife and I, who we actually also have a black walnut that's actually older and larger than the one on her, which is one of the reasons we, we bought this property.
1:58:18So, the owner wanted us to basically take care of the older house.
1:58:26And build the house and to its original state.
1:58:30Like I had done to another home in another part of town.
1:58:34And I basically have asked Jeff and, and other experts to see if something can be done. And if, if a house can be built, that's only 800 square feet and it could be a little cottage in there.
1:58:51And if nothing can be built, then that's fine too. I just, the severance just allows me then to fix the older home and be able to then sell it and the lot would just stay there.
1:59:06I actually have a family friend who's a biologist and wanted to just, you know, work, work in the property and just and, and, and, and actually they actually this afternoon, I can even show you the text offered to just buy it and not buy it.
1:59:20And not do anything with it. So I, I have no intention of building anything at all if there would be, I mean, I built before I understand that no matter what you will always disturb land and trees and flowers and everything else.
1:59:38But if, if it can't be done and I would be, be very glad to sit down with any community members in the neighborhood. I mean, our family has been in Guelph for probably 125 years.
1:59:53So, I mean, we, you know, I'm not someone from out of town. I've lived in the neighborhood.
1:59:59I've lived in almost.
2:00:00every neighborhood in Guelph.
2:00:02And I just want the committee to know that the intention is just
2:00:08to create the severance.
2:00:09The house is a long ways away of ever being developed.
2:00:15And I would even welcome Jamie.
2:00:20Is it Jamie?
2:00:21I would love to sit down with him and get some ideas.
2:00:24I would look at even different ideas
2:00:27about putting something on the property.
2:00:30Nothing at all.
2:00:30I mean, a tiny house would probably fit there and it would be gorgeous.
2:00:36So I'm not, the severance is just to sever the lot.
2:00:41It's not to put up anything else right now.
2:00:44If something can be done and the community is in agreement with it, great.
2:00:49But I'm, my family, I hope to be here for another 125 years.
2:00:54I'm not here to make enemies.
2:00:57But I'm quite willing to engage with the community.
2:01:01And I would be happy to show them other projects that I've done in the past.
2:01:07That I think they would appreciate, you know, like taking care of not just.
2:01:14Anapes and trees and everything else, but actually making sure that, you know.
2:01:19Being a proud member of this community, I'm trying to do the same thing.
2:01:24So, anyways, I'm babbling.
2:01:26But anyways, if you did having questions about my intentions, I'm, I'm.
2:01:31Thank you. If I'm going to turn to my committee and see if there are any questions for yourself or Mr.
2:01:38Buseman or your members.
2:01:44I don't see any questions.
2:01:46So remember good fellow.
2:01:50Thanks, chair.
2:01:52And I, this question may be for city staff more than for the applicant.
2:01:57But I appreciate the applicant's commitment to the community and to the natural heritage of the community.
2:02:05I think it's really important.
2:02:08I too had my daughter with me today when we went to look at the site.
2:02:12Her comment was, wow, that's an impressive tree.
2:02:16So I really feel strongly that there is value in preserving some of these natural heritage components of our neighborhoods.
2:02:28I guess though, I, my question is really about the conditions that are currently in the application in front of us and whether any of those should be changed.
2:02:39To respond to the discussion we've had here just now about community engagement.
2:02:47Further discussion about design of a building that would eventually be constructed on the on the site or not.
2:02:54Because I, I read through the conditions and I'm not seeing anything that's kind of in there. So, um, asking for some city staff advice on whether the conditions should be adjusted to reflect the discussion we've had here tonight.
2:03:13To remember good fellow through the chair, um, the city forestry staff have reviewed this application and provided comments to planning, which we included in our comments.
2:03:25The conditions as they are written with the revision would be that these questions around all the boundary trees on the site. There are few boundary trees as well as the city tree on her and avenue that.
2:03:43For the boundary trees, there's a, there's a shared responsibility between the private owner and the city.
2:03:48So the condition would be that our start, they, the applicant has to work with city staff to come up with an appropriate protection plan in accordance with the tree protection manual.
2:03:59So that would establish the critical root zones.
2:04:03Protection fencing during construction and any sort of.
2:04:08Um, um, work on the tree itself, which then that sort of work would have to be authorized through through the, our professionals forestry staff.
2:04:22So, I believe that covers the issues of the tree itself.
2:04:30The design of the building really falls more under the building code and ensuring that they're staying outside the established tree protection zones.
2:04:40Okay, I appreciate that response. Thank you.
2:04:48Any other questions for staff or the applicant?
2:04:54Seeing none, um, committee members, what is your wish in terms of a, a motion on this severance application? Are we looking, I'm looking for emotion members member pike.
2:05:26Move for approval with conditions.
2:05:29Do we have a seconder member spheres?
2:05:35Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, I will turn it over. Oh, member say or sorry.
2:05:46Yeah, um, yeah, my only comment is I won't be supporting this motion. I'm really torn on this application because, um, you know, I can understand.
2:05:56I can understand the desire to sever the property and, uh, you know, given, given housing concerns, but, you know, I also went by and looked at that tree.
2:06:07In the last couple of days, and it's a very impressive tree and I'd really be concerned about losing it.
2:06:16Let me ask you, members, stairs under which of the four tests would you be opposed to this on?
2:06:40I'm just looking at the tests.
2:06:49I, um, I think my concern is that it's not in the best interest of the community.
2:06:58Okay. Thank you for that. Um, member Goodfell.
2:07:03I was just going to clarify that I think this is a consent. So the four tests may not apply, but maybe that's a point of clarification. I was looking at the
2:07:15List of tests for consent severances.
2:07:19Um, I think it's the suitability of the land for the purposes for which it is to be subdivided. I think there, there are some questions around that.
2:07:27Uh, conservation of natural resources and flood control also being an area of concern for me personally.
2:07:36Um, speaking for myself, um, I was struggling with this application as well. Having seen the tree, you, one can't fail to be impressed.
2:07:47Um, it's almost as old as the city itself. Um, however, I would have been very impressed with the, with the commitment of the, of the landowner and the proponent. So I will be supporting this resolution.
2:08:07Member Klein.
2:08:10Thank you through you, chair. Um, as you know, similar to my fellow committee members, I've also been torn with this application. I am.
2:08:19Generally, very in favor of infill development. Um, but.
2:08:25And I commend the, the, um, intent of the property owner and the applicant and, and the wish to, to save this tree.
2:08:36Um, and the guarantee that it will be saved, but, but that's the thing. I don't think there is a guarantee we can create a plan and we can try to, you know, build according to that plan. But things can happen. That tree could.
2:08:48Be impacted without, you know, be predicting what, what that impact would be. So, um.
2:08:55I don't think I can support this application.
2:09:01Thank you. Any other comments?
2:09:06Member Pike.
2:09:08As the, uh, the applicant stated, we're only voting on the severance, not the build.
2:09:20Okay. At this point, I'm going to call on the secretary treasurer to call the question.
2:09:25Thank you, chair committee members. Please indicate your vote on the motion, which is to approve the application with the recommended conditions, noting that the 1 revised condition, um, planning condition to that timing has been changed to prior to certificate.
2:09:41Chair Smith.
2:09:43In favor.
2:09:44Member Klein.
2:09:48Opposed.
2:09:50Member Goodfellow.
2:09:51Opposed.
2:09:53Member Pike.
2:09:54Member Pike.
2:09:56In favor.
2:09:58Member Sair.
2:10:00Opposed.
2:10:02Member Spears.
2:10:04In favor.
2:10:10That does not carry chair. I'm just going to double check here. Chair Smith, you were in favor. Correct.
2:10:17Correct.
2:10:18Okay.
2:10:19Uh, oh, that's a tie vote, I believe.
2:10:26Yeah.
2:10:27Yes, that's my, my recollection as well. So, um, that motion by virtue of a tie does not pass.
2:10:40That's correct. Chair Smith will need another motion.
2:10:47With a consent agenda item, do we consider another motion or is it just a question that it, uh, it does not pass.
2:10:57Uh, chair Smith, we will need some type of motion that carries, whether it's a refusal motion or a deferral motion.
2:11:08So we would need a motion for deferral or refusal. Is that correct? Okay. So committee members, um, what is your wish of a motion on refusal or a motion on deferral?
2:11:23Before I ask that, I'm going to ask Mr. Buseman if they would be in favor of a, uh,
2:11:32of having this, uh,
2:11:34Cable to a later motion.
2:11:36I think a deferral would be not a bad option. Then we can do more investigation. Uh, James is mine reminded me of really cool thing called an air spade.
2:11:46That they can actually, um, expose the root structure with, uh, you may be familiar with the, when they use a high, um, high pressure water. If we get the power back trucks, what's it called?
2:11:59Hydro back trucks, the badger trucks, right?
2:12:02That's with water, but they can also do with air and air is less obtrusive to the root structure.
2:12:07So what we're looking at is that we do a lot more investigation and we come up with the plan that we think that will that we
2:12:16will save the tree and the design and so on. So the deferral, uh, would give us an opportunity to convince the members that this tree will be saved.
2:12:26Uh, committee members, uh, do we want to defer this or do we want to reject it?
2:12:35Ever pipe.
2:12:37Fold for deferral.
2:12:39Do we have a seconder?
2:12:42Okay. Uh, member good fellow and, uh, there's no debate on a deferral.
2:12:48So I will turn this over to the secretary treasure for a vote.
2:12:53Thank you chair Smith committee members. Please indicate your vote on the deferral motion chair Smith in favor member Klein.
2:13:01In favor.
2:13:03Member good fellow in favor member pike in favor member sayer.
2:13:09In favor.
2:13:10And member Spears in favor.
2:13:13That's carry chair.
2:13:16Your application has been deferred.
2:13:18Thank you very much.
2:13:19Thank you.
2:13:22Secretary treasure, I believe we have one more application.
2:13:36The last application is file a dash 46 slash 23 variants to permit increased height of second story uncovered porch rooftop deck exceeding height of the main floor entry level at 261 Arthur street north.
2:13:50I'll also note for those watching, uh, the hearing remotely, if you wish to speak to this application,
2:13:56you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen that numbers 5198221260 extension 2524.
2:14:05Good afternoon. Do you want to state your name for the record? Please.
2:14:10You'll need to turn your microphone on.
2:14:12My name is Ian Chan. I'm here on behalf of Carolyn and melody link within.
2:14:17Thank you. And was the sign posted as per the planning act? Yes, it was.
2:14:23And did you receive staff's comments and are you in agreement?
2:14:26Yes, yes.
2:14:29That's great. You have 10 minutes to address the committee.
2:14:32Okay. Uh, yeah. So I'm the owner of exhibition builders. We're currently doing a project at 261 Arthur street north.
2:14:39So there's an active permit out for this project.
2:14:41It was for a second story edition with a what was called a rooftop balcony over top of the sunroom.
2:14:49So over the course of construction, just for subcontractors, you know, easy to get materials up there. We put a temporary staircase from the
2:14:58rooftop balcony to the grade
2:15:00of the exterior.
2:15:01Um, over the past couple months, homeowners love it. They think that it just makes it really functional for them. So
2:15:08um, we went to get a revision on our permit to get the stairs added and in doing so the rooftop balcony became an uncovered porch.
2:15:17So that's why we're seeking relief from
2:15:20zoning bylaw 1995 and 2023 for
2:15:25the
2:15:27uncovered porch. Um, it can't be any higher than the main floor entry level of the dwelling.
2:15:35Thank you. And um,
2:15:39I'm going to see if there's anyone in the audience. There doesn't appear to be anyone in the left in the audience.
2:15:45Do we have any delegates on the telephone?
2:15:49Chair Smith, no delegations.
2:15:51And if you want to wait right there, uh, committee members may have questions for you.
2:15:56Committee members, do we have questions without this applicant?
2:16:03Seeing none, I will turn it over to the secretary treasurer for a vote. Oh, I guess we need a motion. Don't be
2:16:19uh committee members, do we have a motion for this member good fellow?
2:16:25I move to approve the application.
2:16:28And seconded by member seyer.
2:16:33We have any discussion on this?
2:16:35Okay, we still don't have any discussion on it, but uh, at this point, I think we need a vote. So secretary treasurer, can you take that away?
2:16:45Thank you chair committee members. Please indicate your vote on the motion, which is to approve the application. Chair Smith?
2:16:52In favor.
2:16:53Member Klein?
2:16:55In favor.
2:16:56Member good fellow?
2:16:57In favor.
2:16:58Member pike?
2:16:59In favor.
2:17:00Member seyer?
2:17:01In favor.
2:17:03And member spears?
2:17:04In favor.
2:17:05That's carried chair.
2:17:07Thank you. Your application has been approved. Thank you. You're welcome.
2:17:14I believe that complete sergeant in terms of applications. Is that correct secretary treasurer?
2:17:23That's correct chair.
2:17:28Do you have any announcements?
2:17:32Chair Smith, I just wanted to make one note. We do have two, uh,
2:17:36new staff members or new to the committee, uh, staff members that are joining us tonight. Um, that's louis and jason here. They're representing engineering. So I just wanted to make note of that.
2:17:47And welcome them to the committee.
2:17:50Welcome, we didn't put you over the coals at all.
2:17:55Just wait.
2:17:57You see how involved it can be. I want to thank my, uh, my colleagues and staff very much for a rigorous meeting.
2:18:05And your attendance and your participation at that, um, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.
2:18:15Member spears?
2:18:16I move we adjourn.
2:18:18And seconded by member seyers. All those in favor.
2:18:23We stand adjourned. Thank you, gentlemen and ladies.
2:18:29Thank you. Good night.