Committee of Adjustment

0:55Good afternoon. I'd like to call to order the July 10th, 2025 hearing of the

0:59Guelph Committee of Adjustment as this is the first hearing of the new term of the

1:03committee. I'll be acting chair for the first part of the hearing until the

1:07election of the chair and vice chair positions have been completed. We do have

1:12a bit of a different schedule today as we have a staff presentation first

1:16followed by the consideration of applications starting at 4 p.m. So we

1:20will proceed with the first four housekeeping items as listed on the

1:24agenda followed by the staff presentation and any questions and then at 4 p.m.

1:29we'll proceed with the opening remarks and the consideration of applications on

1:33the agenda. So first I'll ask if member Spears can provide the indigenous

1:39territorial acknowledgement. Thank you. As we gather let us take time to reflect

1:45on our privilege to live and work in Guelph, a city built over rich indigenous

1:49histories. We are guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility

1:53to care for this land, the people who live here today and the generations to

1:57come. If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation we should take

2:02pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude. This place we

2:06call Guelph is served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many

2:09peoples over time but more specifically the Atawanda Ranc and the Haudenosaunee.

2:15This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of

2:20the Credit First Nation. Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman

2:23tract and is part of a long-established traditional hunting ground for the six

2:27nations of the Grand River. Many First Nations, Inuit and Métis people today

2:31who have come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today. Thank you member

2:39Spears. The next item on the agenda is the election of the chair and vice chair

2:45for the remainder of 2025. We conduct these elections annually at the start of

2:50each year but as this is the first hearing of the new committee this

2:53election is required. So at this time I'll invite a motion from the floor to

2:58appoint a member as chair for the remainder of 2025 effective immediately.

3:03Is there anyone that would like to put a motion on the floor nomination for

3:06chair?

3:07I move I nominate James Smith as the chair for the remainder of 2025.

3:18Thank you member Goodfellow. Is there a seconder for that? Member Spears.

3:24Thank you. Any other nominations for the position of chair? I'll ask if

3:31member Smith accepts that nomination. I do. Thank you very much.

3:37Before we go to a vote any discussion on that nomination? Seeing none. All

3:45those in favor if you could please raise your hand. All right that's carried

3:50congratulations. Thank you Madam Secretary Treasurer. I now like to

3:56invite a motion from the floor to appoint a member as vice chair for the

4:00remainder of 2025 effective immediately. I would like to nominate

4:05Janet Goodfellow. Thank you chair Smith. Is there a seconder for that?

4:14Member Mumbrainio. All right. Any other nominations? Seeing any. Okay. I'll

4:22ask if member Goodfellow do you accept that nomination? I do. Thank you. All

4:26right. Thank you. Any discussion on that before we proceed? Okay. I'll call the

4:31vote. Those in favor please raise your hand. All right that's carried.

4:37Congratulations vice chair Goodfellow. So as the election is complete I'll now

4:42hand it back to the chair to continue with the rest of the meeting. Thank you

5:06Madam Secretary Treasurer. As musical chairs have elapsed we can start at this

5:13point. I need to ask at this point in our meeting if there is any indication of

5:21pecuniary interest and seeing none we can proceed. I need a motion from the

5:32members of the committee to approve the minutes of the last meeting. Do I have a

5:39mover? Member Goodfellow. A seconder. Member Spears. Is there any discussion on

5:46that or indication on the minutes seeing none? Can we have a show of hands to

5:54accept the meeting minutes? Thank you. I believe that's past Madam Secretary

6:00Treasurer. At this point we have a staff presentation on the general roles

6:06responsibilities and procedural training. So at this point I'm going to turn it

6:12over to our secretary treasurer. Madam Secretary Treasurer if you would please

6:18indulge us and we await your words of wisdom. All right thank you chair rest

6:31of the committee and as well as those attending. We do have a brief presentation

6:37for you this afternoon. A little bit of a role reversal for me. I'm not used to

6:41sitting on this side of the horseshoe but hopefully you'll find this presentation

6:48useful. A lot of you have already done orientation sessions with us. This is

6:53really to supplement your training. Clerk staff is doing the same presentation to

7:00all the other advisory committees of council. As you know committee of

7:04adjustment is a bit of a unique committee as it is with property standards

7:09that it's quasi-judicial. So you are a decision-making body unlike our rest of our advisory

7:14committees where they're making in an advisory committee capacity advising council on certain

7:20items. So we've tweaked this presentation knowing that committee of adjustment and property standards

7:26is a little bit different than the rest of the advisory committees but just basically to give

7:30you a little bit of an overview of some of that basic training there. So a bit of the agenda and I

7:38you know I think this presentation definitely won't take an hour so we'll probably be able to

7:43take a bit of a recess after this. So we'll go over a bit about the advisory committees of council

7:48governance framework. Also legislative requirements for local boards. Code of conduct for city council

7:55and local boards. That also was covered in many of your orientation sessions. Also something that's

8:03new as of this year is the lobbyist registry. So we'll talk a bit about that. Touch upon terms

8:09of reference, the roles and responsibilities for staff, ACOC members and the chair and basic

8:15hearing procedures. So like we have on the slide advisory committees of council are a big experiment

8:24in democracy. Back in January of 2023 the clerk's office in collaboration with the Guelph lab initiated

8:32phase one of the redesigning advisory committees of council project. The goal of the project was to

8:38provide city council with recommendations to improve the effectiveness of advisory committees of

8:43council and to ensure that advisory committees serve the needs of residents, city council and the

8:50city. Phase two of the project was initiated in early 2025 and was led by city staff. So as part of

8:57this project many stakeholders were consulted including the advisory committees themselves

9:02and ultimately this is what's led to the creation of the committee of adjustment and property standards

9:08committee. Previously those were separate committee committees and as part of this framework they've

9:13now been combined sharing membership. And while that membership has been merged the mandates of

9:20each committee still remain distinct just recognizing that each of those committees property standards

9:25versus committee of adjustment you have led different legislative responsibilities. And that

9:32new combined committee will fulfill all statutory requirements and create efficiency by consolidating

9:37the city's two quasi-judicial committees. So really the purpose of that governance framework is to

9:43guide the creation design function and evaluation of advisory committees of council. So right now

9:49we're in the implementation phase. You've spent a couple of presentations from clerk staff in the

9:56past for some of the previous members that have sat on this committee that clerks have come and

10:02provided updates. We're now in that implementation phase as this is the first meeting of the new

10:08term of the committee and then there'll be a self-reflection phase where there'll be some

10:13reports to council on how those new committees are functioning. So how did we create the framework?

10:23There was lots of engagement work with the Guelph lab at the University of Guelph,

10:28work with the members of the community, members of advisory committees of council staff that was

10:32really collaborative and worked towards the framework we have today. So a bit about the

10:41framework highlights there was seven commitments as part of that that advisory committees of council

10:47are to form community engagement. They help shape the city's strategic goals. They should adopt

10:53deliberative practices. They should contribute lived and professional expertise. They should

10:58have diverse membership and there should be clear communication between advisory committees and city

11:04council. The caveat there is that's typically point number six that would be applicable for

11:10our other advisory committees of council, not for committees of adjustment and property standards

11:15as you are making decisions and there's no need to have that communication with council.

11:21And also the last point is that advisory committees should be adequately resourced.

11:30So six critical features of that framework that there's effective communication between the advisory

11:36committee members and city council. Again with that little caveat that I mentioned before that

11:41applies to CFA and property standards as well as staff liaisons have strategic level responsibilities

11:49that we have clear up to date and regularly revisited terms of reference. So there is a new

11:54terms of reference for committee of adjustment and property standards that's applicable.

12:00New recruitment efforts to engage with and recruit diverse members for advisory committees

12:06which is still waiting some funding for that and also compensation and coverage of participation

12:12related expenses. Again a little bit of a caveat here for committee of adjustment property standards

12:18committee is that there is some compensation provided. Council's looking at staffs looking at

12:23providing opportunities for compensation for other types of committees but that's currently

12:29being explored. And also that there's adequate resources to support the well the full functioning

12:37of advisory committees. A really brief summary of legislative requirements for meetings. So meetings

12:46have to be open to the public. They decisions of advisory committee must be made through resolution

12:53of the advisory committee. That notice and agendas be published in advance of the meeting

12:58and that meeting minutes must be posted publicly following meetings. I'll also note that minutes

13:05from committee of adjustment and property standards are included in information packages that go to

13:11once approved and those information packages go to council each week. So the code of conduct for

13:20city council and local boards. This committee is considered a local board so the code of

13:25conduct for city council and local board applies. There also is another supplementary code of

13:32conduct for committee of adjustment members which just supplements the main code of conduct that

13:37talks about some specific committee of adjustment references. Again that code of conduct applies

13:43to all members. Covers all behavior whether it takes place in person online or on social media

13:52and there is many parts of that code of conduct that are applicable to members of city council only.

14:00So again we won't go into details here this is just give a high level overview. There's some

14:05certain sections of the code of conduct that would be relevant. Those would be gifts and benefits,

14:09confidentiality, conduct, influence on staff, improper use of influence and conflicts of

14:16interest. Probably that last point conflicts of interest is one that you'll encounter the most.

14:26A lobbyist registry. So the lobbyist registry is new to the city of Guelph as of January this year.

14:32This is to provide a transparent way for the public to understand when members of council,

14:37city staff or members of advisory committees are having conversations that are not in a public

14:42forum that may influence financial decisions. So what you need to know is committee of adjustment

14:49members that you're not responsible for upholding the lobbyist registry by-law or keeping people

14:56accountable. The lobbyist is. So you may you might be in your instance as a committee member

15:04lobbied and in this situation and we'll go over what lobbying is. In this situation we ask that

15:09you just be advocates that if someone approaches you and lobbies you that you've that you're an

15:15advocate and ask like have you registered this conversation. So lobbyists are required to submit

15:22lobbying activity within 10 days of engaging in that activity. So we do have a section on our

15:28website that outlines registered lobbyists and as well a brief summary of who they contact and what

15:34that lobbying activity was. So basically if you're having a conversation with someone in regards to

15:40a decision or recommendation you're looking to make in an upcoming hearing and that individual is

15:47asking you to support it or not support it in a certain way because they stand to gain financially

15:53or stand to not lose financially then that is considered lobbying. Again it's up to the

15:58lobbyist to conform with that by-law. That isn't up to the the committee of adjustment members

16:07to make that determination. So if you do have questions about this about this or someone approaches

16:13you you can you're welcome to talk to clerk staff and and we'll provide some more information.

16:18There's also a handy little quiz on the questionnaire on the city's website that

16:24someone can do that to determine if they're a lobbyist or not. I know it can be a little bit

16:29nuanced there and this probably won't happen much in your capacity. Your contact information

16:36isn't publicly known things like that but you may be approached in the community and and really

16:41it's key there is if it's someone's asking you to support it or not support it because they

16:46stand to gain financially there. So it's really important to just make yourself

16:51familiar with that. Terms of reference. So the advisory committees of council framework did help

17:01guide some new terms of reference for the committee of adjustment and property standards committee.

17:07Again like I mentioned before those two committee or the committee of adjustment and property

17:12standards still have separate mandates there and really that terms of reference that we've

17:18created is to ensure compliance with the respective legislative frameworks and there is a one-year

17:25review timeline so we'll make sure that we're constantly reviewing that terms of reference

17:30to make sure it's still relevant. So role of staff liaison supporting a three committees of council

17:40against staff liaisons and I myself would be your staff liaison for committee of adjustment.

17:47We are here to advise on any high-level decision-making and bring knowledge regarding strategic

17:52goals and priorities of the city. We communicate and collaborate with the members and other staff

17:58to ensure that committee contributions are sought early in planning and policy discussions.

18:05We facilitate communications between city staff chairs vice chairs and members to make sure we

18:11maximize the value of the advisory committee of council and also provide opportunities for

18:17members to learn technical terms knowledge and skills related to the committee's mandate.

18:22And lastly we help to practice that facilitation conflict resolution and management consensus

18:29building through these deliberative approaches. So in addition to the staff liaison there is

18:40a role of city clerk staff in supporting advisory committees of council obviously you'll see

18:46clerk staff in front of you at meetings also behind the scenes hosting online meetings as well.

18:52So we make sure that members are well informed regarding meeting procedures and rules for

18:57participation. Staff liaison coordinates hearings including communicating and finalizing dates,

19:03times and locations to all the relevant parties and with the assistance of the staff liaison

19:09clerk's office staff provides secretary and technical support for that meeting whether it be

19:15the creation of meeting agendas and minutes and any other relevant policies. A brief summary of the

19:26role of advisory committee members be well prepared to attend and participate in hearings,

19:33be curious and flexible in discussions valuing and encouraging diverse viewpoints understand and

19:39respect the roles and expectations of all participants and attend any mandatory training

19:45as you've all attended orientation sessions. Basic hearing procedures again we've touched on this on

19:55in our orientation sessions but those hearings must abide by the city's procedure by-law and as

20:02well we do have a committee of adjustment hearing procedures document too that provides a few little

20:06exceptions to the city's procedural by-law. Parliamentary procedure ensures fair and equitable

20:12decision-making if things are becoming cumbersome or confusing clerk's office is here to help you

20:20be your resource in that situation and really 90 of parliamentary procedure is as simple as somebody

20:26moving emotion, seconding emotion, debate and discussion and then voting on it so again it's

20:31that 50 plus one of the members present required for that resolution to be approved so pretty simple

20:39like basic parliamentary procedure there which again we've gone over in many of those specific

20:44orientation sessions. So lastly on behalf of clerk's office staff we're really here to help so if

20:53you do have any questions about any of the items that we've mentioned today you can email us also

21:01the rest of the legislative services team is here to assist and I'm happy to take any questions

21:06that the committee might have. Thank you Madam Secretary Treasurer. Committee members do we have

21:12any questions for our secretary treasurer? Yes please go ahead. Just this one year is a calendar

21:21year when you talk about or is that rolling timelines? Through the chair to member Meir

21:30are you talking about the one year timeframe to review the terms of reference? Yeah okay so the

21:36one year that that will be from the start of committee starting now we'll start reviewing that

21:41and there'll be reports next year to council about how things are functioning. Okay thank you.

21:52I have a question excuse me and it's more for elucidation of some of the new members

22:01if a motion comes before us and it is a tie what's the result?

22:10So to the chair that our current city's procedural bylaw says a tie vote is deemed to be defeated

22:19usually in that situation you know we want to make sure that we're making decisions on applications

22:24so we would typically ask for another motion on the floor sometimes that might result in

22:29another opposite motion if that tie vote for approval failed or deferral motion.

22:39Thank you and similarly we're going to have a deferral a suggestion of deferral by city staff

22:49my understanding is that there is no debate on it once a deferral motion has been proposed.

22:55So to the chair that's an excellent question yeah substantive debate there shouldn't be

23:01happening on that type of motion there is opportunity still for clarification so if there's

23:06some clarification needed for like why it's being deferred it's not that there can't be discussion

23:11about that just really you know the nuts and bolts of the application getting into substantive

23:16discussion we really want to avoid so then if it is deferred it's really all talked about at that

23:21next hearing. But once the motion to defer is before the committee there is no debate.

23:31Yeah just that limited if like I said if it's just the clarification needed about you know

23:36why it's being deferred that type of debate is permiss permitted but again yeah nothing

23:41could nothing really be on that. Okay thank you. Any other questions?

23:50Comments? Thank you very much Tristha for informing us of all this and I'm sure we'll be

23:58making good use of your information as we go forward so thank you again. Thank you chair and

24:04committee. At this point that ends the staff presentation so I'm going to move that we

24:14take an adjournment till four o'clock and a regularly scheduled meeting. Do I have a mover?

24:24Member Fitzpatrick and a seconder? Member Spears all those in favor we stand adjourned.

58:56Good afternoon Guelph I'd like to reconvene the city of Guelph's committee of adjustment meeting

59:02for July 10th. This hearing is being held in a hybrid format with attendees appearing in person

59:08or remotely and is being live streamed and recorded. Please be advised that public hearings form part

59:14of the public record and the words names and images of those participating shall be posted online.

59:21Before I align the hearing format we'll be using today if you are watching online and wish to speak

59:26in application that's listed on the agenda and have not yet submitted a written request in advance

59:33please call the number displayed on the screen now which is 519-822-1260 that's 519-822-1260

59:47and the extension is 2524 the extension again is 2524 and you will receive instructions on how to

59:55participate. For those attending the hearing in person you'll also be given an opportunity

1:00:02to address the committee a final call for delegations will be made when each application is called.

1:00:08The agenda for this hearing has been posted online at guelph.ca

1:00:13forward slash c-o-f-a I'll remind committee members and staff participating in the hearing to please

1:00:20unmute your microphones when not in use applicants will be unmuted when their application is called.

1:00:27I'd like to share the hearing format we'll be using to navigate through the meeting today.

1:00:34Each application will be called by the secretary treasurer and the call in number for those wishing

1:00:39to speak to an application shall be displayed on the screen afterwards the applicant will be given

1:00:44the opportunity to add anything further to the application to a maximum of 10 minutes you will

1:00:51hear a chime when there are 30 seconds left and another when 10 minutes has elapsed. If you are

1:00:58the applicant and have nothing further to add then you can simply say so. Following this for

1:01:05some files staff may provide a brief presentation the committee will then be advised to ask questions

1:01:11of the applicant or staff after that we will hear from the members of the public who wish to comment

1:01:17on an application please note that all comments should be addressed through myself the chair please

1:01:25avoid repeating concerns already stated by others and focus on adding new information.

1:01:31Comments are limited to 10 minutes or less you will hear a chime when there are 30 seconds left

1:01:36and another when the 10 minutes have elapsed. For delegates that have advised staff in advance

1:01:44of the hearing that they wish to display a presentation your presentation will be displayed

1:01:50on the screen and a remote is available at the podium for you as a delegate in person to advance

1:01:57the slides. Any members of the public who have submitted a written request to speak prior to

1:02:04the hearing will be the first invited to provide comments for those watching the hearing online

1:02:09if you wish to speak to an application and have not yet submitted a request in advance of the hearing

1:02:15please call the number displayed on the screen now. For those attending the hearing in person

1:02:22you will also be given a chance to come forward to the podium and address the committee.

1:02:27Once all comments from the public have been heard the applicant or staff will be given

1:02:32an opportunity to respond to comments. Finally as chair I shall turn to the committee for

1:02:39emotion and deliberation as well a vote on the application. When the committee is making his

1:02:44decision on the application as chair I will be asking the secretary treasurer to conduct the

1:02:51pardon me to conduct the vote by roll call. The secretary treasurer will call each of the

1:02:58member's name and each member will respond if they are in favor or opposed to the motion

1:03:03and as chair I will announce the result of the motion. If you wish to receive a copy of the

1:03:09decision on an application you must submit a written request. A written request can be made by

1:03:17contacting staff using the contact information shown on the screen. To receive a copy of the

1:03:23decision please email cofa at gulf.ca with your name and the file number you're interested in.

1:03:33Please note that owners and applicants automatically receive a copy of the decision.

1:03:38And I've conferred with the secretary treasurer and we do have a deferral request from

1:03:48the city staff so I'll turn it over to the secretary treasurer to ask

1:03:55about this request. Thank you chair. The first application we have that's under the deferral

1:04:03section is file b-53 slash 25 consent to create one new residential lot with one

1:04:10tain lot at 47 and 87 Highland Road. I'll note for those wishing to speak to this application

1:04:17you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen that number is 519-822-120-0

1:04:23extension 2524 and when you call in staff we'll give you instructions on how you can delegate

1:04:28remotely. I will note that there was correspondence received after the comment deadline from Julie

1:04:34Grandin, Peggy Lucas and Leslie Byrd with concerns about the application and that correspondence

1:04:41has been circulated to the committee members staff and the applicant. From what I understand

1:04:47staff is recommending deferral of this file so the applicant can provide additional information

1:04:52from the land trust to outline the protection and management of the natural heritage system.

1:04:58The agent has not advised if they agree to the deferral request but is in attendance this evening

1:05:04and I will note for the chair that we do have some individuals that wish to speak to this

1:05:08application as well we do have a brief staff presentation after the applicant's introduction.

1:05:16Thank you Madam Secretary Treasurer is the applicant present? Yes please come forward to

1:05:22the podium. Good afternoon can you state your name and your relationship to the application please?

1:05:31Yes my name is Brianna Miller I'm here from Van Harten surveying on behalf of Threshold Supports

1:05:36and Crow Shield Lodge. Thank you and can you tell me if the sign was posted as per the planning?

1:05:42Yes it was. Thank you and have you read staff's comments? Yes and are you in agreement with the

1:05:51suggestion for deferral? We do not agree with deferral no. In that case you have 10 minutes to

1:05:58address the committee and please make as much use of that time as you would like. Fantastic.

1:06:03All right so this proposal that we're bringing forward represents an important opportunity to

1:06:07take a step forward to reconciliation and honoring First Nations. By donating this land to Crow Shield

1:06:13Lodge an Indigenous led land trust we're not only protecting the environment but also recognizing

1:06:18the importance of Indigenous stewardship and traditional knowledge in conservation. It is

1:06:24both proper and fitting that this land be returned to Indigenous hands for protection, healing and

1:06:29restoration. We understand that staff are asking for the application to be deferred however we are

1:06:35proposing instead that a production of a detailed management plan be a condition of the severance

1:06:41and a decision that is made today. To provide some background we are re-establishing a historical

1:06:46lot line from decades ago when the house was built. A recent severance this earlier this year

1:06:52allowed threshold supports to get ownership of the entire block. Now they are seeking to

1:06:58donate the proposed four hectares to Crow Shield Lodge. We understand there are also concerns about

1:07:04the proximity of the proposed lot line to wetland and woodland buffers and these are valid considerations

1:07:11that we take very seriously. It is important to note that there was an environmental study done

1:07:16in 2018 by NSRI and the letter provided by them clearly states because there is no new development

1:07:23proposed on either lot that there will be no impacts on the natural features. So this assessment

1:07:29supports our position that the severance and subsequent donation are environmentally responsible.

1:07:35Additionally the land team at Crow Shield Lodge has extensive experience in site restoration

1:07:40and ecological care using a mix of traditional practices and western science. From what I

1:07:46understand this forested area is in desperate need of ecological restoration and Crow Shield is

1:07:52well equipped to lead that work. The severed portion of the lot will only be used for

1:07:56conservation purposes and the natural features will remain protected for generations to come.

1:08:02Importantly the Grand River Conservation Authority has no objections to the severance and this

1:08:07further supports our case that this proposal aligns with environmental guidelines and stewardship

1:08:12principles. The retained portion of the lot will continue to provide supportive housing

1:08:17and meanwhile the severed lot will serve as a space for conservation, healing and indigenous

1:08:21lead land stewardship. Crow Shield Lodge currently manages three similar sites and I'm confident

1:08:27that they will bring the same care and expertise to this location. Clarence who represents Crow Shield

1:08:33Lodge has prepared a presentation which you will hear later and will speak more about how the

1:08:37organization operates, the restoration approaches and their long-term vision for the site. I did

1:08:42receive the letters of opposition today and while I can understand some of their concerns that were

1:08:48expressed to an extent we must also take a hard look at the nature of the opposition and in many

1:08:54case what's being expressed is not just about land use. This is a thoughtful balanced proposal

1:09:00that addresses environmental, historical and cultural responsibilities. It reflects a meaningful

1:09:05commitment to reconciliation and to supporting indigenous lead conservation efforts. I believe

1:09:10it is entirely appropriate and in fact overdue that this land be entrusted to those that will

1:09:14honor and protect it in accordance with both ecological science and indigenous tradition.

1:09:19Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate your brevity and your thoroughness of your presentation so

1:09:28thank you for that. If you want to stand by my colleagues may have some questions for you.

1:09:33Committee members do we have any questions of the applicant? I don't see any hands coming

1:09:53to the floor at the moment and I understand that city staff is going to have a presentation

1:10:00so if you want to wait on deck we can hear from city staff and Madam Secretary Treasurer

1:10:11am I correct in saying that city staff have a presentation? Yes.

1:10:20Mr. Rimpel would you like to proceed? Absolutely thank you Mr. Chair. The proposed application

1:10:27for 47 and 87 Highland Road is to sever the existing single detached dwelling known as 47

1:10:33Highland Road from the larger natural heritage system lands that are currently part of the same

1:10:37property. So as outlined in staff's comments official plan policy 4.1.2 prohibits development

1:10:44including the establishment of new lot lines within the natural heritage system and associated

1:10:48buffers with some limited exceptions for permitted low impact activities. As the NHS buffer extends

1:10:55into the proposed severed lands the proposed severance can only be supported by staff if staff

1:10:59are able to confirm that the proposed uses are permitted and that they will not result in negative

1:11:06impacts to the natural heritage system features or functions. Without confirmation of this staff

1:11:12will not be able to determine if the proposal complies with official plan policy. For this reason

1:11:17staff still recommend deferral of the application until land management plan and any other necessary

1:11:23additional information can be provided. In addition to development planning staff myself

1:11:29Jane Gurney our environmental planner is also in attendance to answer any questions about relevant

1:11:33policies. Thank you and I believe my member good fellow you have a question of city staff.

1:11:43I do so through the chair to city staff I'm thankful to see Ms. Gurney that you are here this

1:11:49evening with us. I think probably my question may be for you because I am curious to understand

1:11:54what would go into a land management plan that would meet the city's requirements to summarize

1:12:01how the land would be managed to address the concerns that were raised by city staff's comments.

1:12:10Thank you through you chair. At the time that we received and reviewed the application there was no

1:12:16land uses proposed specifically in the information we received in order to ensure that the proposed

1:12:24uses would comply with our official plan policies which are fairly limited in the types of activities

1:12:30that are permitted. We would want something that outlines how the land will be managed

1:12:36and utilized so that may include and it's something that we could scope with the applicant

1:12:41but it may include things like a list of activities which today we received a bit more

1:12:47information so it does look like there's some uses that we would need to have potentially scoped or

1:12:53some more information around and that would also likely trigger the need for an environmental impact

1:12:58statement. Things like if they're constructing trails or installing even temporary structures that

1:13:05wouldn't be permitted generally so we would need to provide some more information and have an impact

1:13:12assessment done in order to demonstrate that there was no impacts to the feature itself or to the

1:13:17functions of the features that make up the natural heritage system. So I'm not sure if that helps

1:13:24exactly. Again we don't have a standard format but it would be something that we would have to scope

1:13:29with the applicant to work through to make sure that we had the adequate information to assess.

1:13:36Yes thank you and if I may have I have one follow-up question because you did raise the

1:13:41point about the environmental impact statement as well and it was a question I had is that I

1:13:46understand one had been completed previously but would like what conditions or what uses might

1:13:53require or prompt the requirement for a new EIS. It sounds like there is the potential

1:14:01for the need for a future or a new EIS to cover some of the potential land uses for this

1:14:07site going forward. Have I got that right? Through the chair yes that's accurate. The previous

1:14:13assessment was more of an evaluation of the features that were on site to identify the

1:14:20buffer in particular from the wetland onto the parcel that they're proposing to sever.

1:14:26It wasn't really looking at specific land uses within there or assessing impacts of any land uses

1:14:31or management practices in the broader woodland and wetland areas. Thank you very much I really

1:14:39appreciate the detail and I'm good thank you. Committee members do we have any other questions?

1:14:45Member Spears. Yes through you Mr. Chair to staff to Mr. Rampel. The applicant suggested that

1:14:54we could impose a condition on the severance or this consent application requiring a management

1:15:00study or a management plan to be in place that satisfied city staff and then that would allow

1:15:07the consent to go forward. To me it seems sort of 50-50. How does staff feel about that approach

1:15:16and just to make it expedient? Through the chair to member Spears I think what Jane has

1:15:25outlined about the need to scope the need for this land management plan is kind of the main

1:15:30reason why we would need to see that before recommending approval of any application to ensure

1:15:37that the parameters around the permitted uses are mutually understood and agreed to and that the

1:15:42applicant understands if there are any other you know future technical studies that are required.

1:15:49Thank you I think that answers my question. Thank you member Spears any other questions

1:15:56for city staff? I do have one if this wasn't subject to a consent agenda

1:16:04um could the proponent go ahead and do what they they're proposing to do on the land?

1:16:21If they applied or asked the city no the answer would be no they couldn't do anything

1:16:26not anything but the some of the items they're proposing would require some additional study.

1:16:32The official plan policy does require an impact statement or similar study to demonstrate that

1:16:38there's no impact when you're doing things like building trails would be one thing that would

1:16:44trigger the need for an impact statement. I guess that's what I'm getting and I understand that they

1:16:49I mean it's wetland they they couldn't put up an apartment building for example it would be

1:16:53subject to official plan and zoning. I guess what I'm trying to press out is

1:17:01depending on what somebody wants to do they would have to come forward to the city and and make that

1:17:07request am I am I correct? Yes that's what should happen yes. Thanks for that clarification I appreciate

1:17:15it. Committee members any other questions? Seeing none I want to thank staff their presentation

1:17:23and their and their their focus on this at this point I'm going to turn it over to

1:17:29delegations and Madam Secretary Treasurer do we have any registered delegates?

1:17:35Yes we do chair the first is Eric Phillip and Clarence Katchaji I believe they're here in person.

1:17:51Yes welcome and we'll turn your microphone on there we go can you state your names for the record

1:17:58please. Hey everyone it's Eric Phillip I'm the CEO of Threshold Holds and Supports

1:18:03and I am Clarence Katchaji executive director of Crow Shield Lodge

1:18:09and you have 10 minutes to address the committee. All right thank you very much with the slides.

1:18:19All right thank you very much everyone it's an honor for me to be here and it's an honor for

1:18:24Eric to stand beside me. It's the first time I've been in Guelph and what I'm going to do is just

1:18:30give you an overview of what Crow Shield Lodge is. Crow Shield Lodge is a registered non-profit

1:18:35with charitable status and we've been around for five years we're going into our fifth year right now

1:18:43we were in Guelph at Eden Mills seven years ago and we were doing sweat lodges and we were doing

1:18:50we had a teaching lodge set up there at Aramosa Eden and we were there for a year and a half and then

1:18:58things weren't working out as we hoped they would so we moved the lodge back then back to Waterloo

1:19:05Region and then we were looking for a place and a space so we reached out to some individuals.

1:19:13The first people that we found that wanted to walk with Crow Shield Lodge was the Fennings

1:19:19Geneneck Fennings the biggest organic farmers in Waterloo Region and we've had a site at their

1:19:26place now for five years. It's manicured we work with an in about three acres and we work with

1:19:34the land not against the land. To back it up a bit when we came back from Guelph the first person

1:19:42that we went to talk to and invited them on this journey with us was a regional chair Karen Redmond.

1:19:52With two and a half years of conversations with the regional chair Karen Redmond and her team

1:19:58we were able to broker a deal to set up another land-based site at Ken ceiling museum

1:20:05and we have been at Ken ceiling museum for three years.

1:20:12After that we went and formed a relationship with the YMCA of Three Rivers and we set up another

1:20:21land-based site at Camp Kauai Y which is at by St. Clements. So in Waterloo Region we have three

1:20:30land-based sites and then we also have a house in downtown Kitchener where we do a lot of workout

1:20:35out of. Indigenous people are land-based people we've always been land-based people.

1:20:45The land is our most important thing that connects us to who we are because we believe

1:20:52the land is our mother, it's a gift and it's our responsibility to steward her and to take care of her.

1:21:00Not only for this generation that is sitting here right now

1:21:05and saying that it's for the seven generations that aren't here yet

1:21:12and that's our biggest concern at Crochet Lodge. Indigenous people we need the land,

1:21:18it's our mother. Everything that we do comes from the land. Our medicines, our sacred objects,

1:21:29all of our ceremonies are done on the land, all of our teachings are done on the land

1:21:34and what we want to do at Crochet Lodge is we want to be the best ancestor we can be.

1:21:42Not when we're gone but we want to be the best ancestor we can be today. So that means having

1:21:49conversations like this, giving people starting points in regards to healing, education, land

1:21:56stewardship and reconciliation and when we talk about reconciliation and those are for the pillars

1:22:04of Crochet Lodge, healing, education, land stewardship and reconciliation but we're finding,

1:22:12we're in a time where we're still in the shadow of the truth and reconciliation period and we

1:22:19should be because it's going to take seven generations of all of us to sit in that truth

1:22:26to understand what happened to the original people of this country and how that land was

1:22:32taken away from the original people of this country and how they were put onto reserves

1:22:38and how they were put into schools and they were put into scoops and I'm part of the 60s scoop.

1:22:45I'm not even from here. My reserve is 10 hours away. I'm from Shaplo. My grandmother was in

1:22:52residential schools. My dad, my uncles and my aunts and I didn't grow up with my culture, my family

1:22:58or ceremony. I was raised by New Order Mennonites. Once the time was right for me to find that pathway

1:23:06back to culture, that pathway led to a pathway back to myself and also at Crochet Lodge we want to

1:23:16help people answer three very important questions and those questions are who am I, why am I and what

1:23:25is my purpose in life. I know some adults today that cannot answer those questions

1:23:34and we want to give those individuals, indigenous and non-indigenous, the opportunity to answer

1:23:41those questions. So how do we do that? Take them out to the land because I have teachings that if

1:23:50somebody strays off that good path in life, we don't shun them, we don't judge them, we don't

1:23:58stereotype them. What we do is we surround them as friends and family and community and we take

1:24:07them back to the land. That's what we do because the land is our mother and she gives us everything

1:24:13that we need to sustain life and it's our responsibility to take care of our mother.

1:24:20All we're trying to do is create places and spaces for the people of today, the generations of today

1:24:29but we also want to take into consideration about those seven generations that aren't here yet

1:24:37and that's our responsibility too. So that's what we do at Crochet Lodge. We meet people where they're at,

1:24:47we work with organizations, we work with colleges, universities, hospitals and for the past year and

1:24:57a half people have been asking us is there a possibility that you can come to Guelph?

1:25:05When are you coming to Guelph? We're already working with Guelph General, we're already working

1:25:11with St. Joe's, we're already working with CMHA, we're already working with thresholds,

1:25:18so we're already starting to service the individuals in this community and why? Because

1:25:25we're feeding them in a way that they've never been fed before. We're feeding them with their mind,

1:25:31their body, their spirit and emotions and we're meeting them where they're at and there's no

1:25:36mandate to experience Crochet Lodge. We've created pathways in Waterloo Region and the only barrier

1:25:48for individuals going down that pathway or those pathways is themselves. What we do at Crochet Lodge

1:25:56is we want to model how Indigenous and non-Indigenous people, organizations, communities can come

1:26:07together to enhance a community. That's what we've been doing in Waterloo Region. We've been enhancing

1:26:16it. We have partners with the police, we have partners with the House of Friendship, we have

1:26:22partners and partners and partners, we have six pages of things that we did last year.

1:26:28And those six things aren't about Crochet Lodge. It's about giving the community what it needs

1:26:34and giving them an alternative that has never been here before. So what we do is just ask for

1:26:44people's time and that's what this is all about. It's all about time. It's all about the past,

1:26:54it's all about the present and it's about the future. And what the time is that I want to know

1:27:00is this the right time to take something like this forward and go off? Because it's working down the

1:27:07road in Waterloo Region and it's having a big impact. Also at Crochet Lodge, we do sweats,

1:27:19we have community breakfasts for frontline workers, we have men's sharing circles, we have women's

1:27:25sharing circles, we have full moon ceremonies and this is all to feed the indigenous people and

1:27:33non-indigenous people in ways they've never been fed before. We don't exclude anyone.

1:27:41Doesn't matter what color your skin is, what faith you follow. Everyone is welcome at Crochet Lodge

1:27:51so we're trying to take down the barriers. We're trying to model how we can do this in a good way.

1:27:56So with that, I want to thank everybody for their time because we believe the best gift anybody can

1:28:03give is their time. Why is that? Because it's a piece of your life that you're never going to get back.

1:28:11So I appreciate being here. It's an honor. I appreciate this time and I guess we're going to see,

1:28:20we'll see if we can move this forward because we look at this as an opportunity to enhance

1:28:28wealth and then we can model and show other communities how they can do it as well.

1:28:40Thank you very much for your very heartfelt presentation. I appreciate your commitment

1:28:49and your coming before us today. I have one question. My colleagues may have questions so let me ask them.

1:28:57First, committee members, do we have any questions of this delegate? Seeing none,

1:29:05I will ask my question and that is, you did mention time and whether or not this is the right time.

1:29:15City staff have suggested that perhaps we need a little more, they need a little more time

1:29:22to work with you to consider what you're proposing and I'm wondering how you feel about

1:29:31a deferral motion that would give you and city staff some more time to go further into detail of

1:29:41of this severance application. Yes, that was my question. Either way, it's what it would be.

1:29:58I would encourage the city to reach out to Karen Redmond and talk to her team, the regional chair

1:30:07and ask how Crochet Lodge manages their sites on a museum property on regional land.

1:30:18Okay, thank you very much for that and your presentation.

1:30:23At this point, I'm going to ask our secretary treasurer if there are any other registered

1:30:29delegates. Mr. Chair, there are some other delegates then. Sorry, I'm getting

1:30:39with apologies. Yes, but actually the through the chair to the applicant, your last comment

1:30:46actually raised a question for me and if you would be so kind as to to provide a response.

1:30:53You did mention the work that you've done in Waterloo Region. Sounds very impressive.

1:30:58I am curious though, when you were working on some of those properties you mentioned,

1:31:04did you work with the region to develop land management plans similar to what was discussed

1:31:09here a few minutes ago and is that something that you would be willing to do to develop this land

1:31:15in well? Thanks for asking that question and we when we started working with the region, there was no

1:31:23mandate to work on a management plan. They just trusted us to work with the land

1:31:33and they would come in and assess what our sites look like. We'd work with our arborists,

1:31:39we'd look at the risks, we take trees down, we'd look at the invasive species, but there was no

1:31:49push for a plan. I think that answers my question, so thank you. I appreciate it.

1:31:55Thank you. Member Goodfellow and I'm sorry I missed your...

1:32:02Are there any other questions of this delegate? Seeing none, again my sincere thank you.

1:32:10Madam Secretary Treasurer, do we have any other registered delegates?

1:32:14Yes, Mr. Chair, we do. The next is Peggy Lucas.

1:32:17This is Ms. Lucas here in the auditorium and I'm going to ask a second time if Ms. Lucas is here

1:32:40and a third time. Seeing none, she's not online by any chance is she? No? Okay. We will come back

1:32:49to that delegate if they do show up during the course of this portion of the hearing. Do we have

1:32:59any other registered delegates? Yes, Mr. Chair, we do. The next is Adam Wright. Please come forward.

1:33:26Good afternoon. Can you state your name for the record please? Yeah, my name is Adam Wright.

1:33:30And you have 10 minutes to address the committee and you can make as much or as little use of that

1:33:35time as you'd like. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Steem members of the Committee of Adjustment

1:33:41and fellow citizens of Guelph, thank you for the opportunity to speak today. As mentioned,

1:33:46my name is Adam Wright. I'm the owner and resident of Forty Highland Road and the

1:33:50father of two beautiful young girls aged 9 and 12. I stand before you today to strongly urge

1:33:56this committee to not approve the severance or development of the land at 87 Highland Road in

1:34:01Guelph. This land is not only environmentally sensitive, it is ecologically vital. Severing

1:34:08and developing it would do irreversible damage to our natural heritage and the vulnerable species

1:34:14that depend on it. The land at 87 Highland Road is directly connected to the Clithe Creek and

1:34:21Euromasa watershed, part of a sensitive ecological corridor that supports water filtration and recharge

1:34:27to our aquifers, wildlife migration routes and nesting grounds, climate resiliency through canopy

1:34:35cover and biodiversity. This area contains a mix of wetlands, woodlands and meadowedge habitat.

1:34:42The very ecosystems prioritized in Guelph's natural heritage system and the city's official plan.

1:34:49There are many at risk and endangered species and Ontario currently has 270 species of plants

1:34:55and animals that are at risk according to the province of Ontario. Multiple federally and

1:35:00provincially listed species at risk are known to either inhabit or rely on this land. These include

1:35:06amphibians and reptiles such as the Jefferson salamander, the Blanding's turtle, the eastern

1:35:12ribbon snake, also birds including the eastern wood peewee, the woods rush, the barn swallow,

1:35:20the boba link. All the listed species that rely on mature forest or meadow transition zones.

1:35:26There are also pollinators and plants at risk such as the monarch butterfly, a species of concern

1:35:32which uses milkweed found in open meadows here, rusty patched bumblebee which is an endangered

1:35:39species reliant on uninterrupted foraging corridors. We also have rare native flora like the gold

1:35:46thread polypottie fern and maiden hair spleenwort which thrive in moist shaded areas that would be

1:35:52compromised. The risk to this patch of land is going to be compounded and adding to the ecological

1:36:03concern is the ongoing issue of the inadequate septic infrastructure at 47 Highland Road immediately

1:36:10adjacent to the parcel in question and compounding the potential harm to the ecosystem. The septic

1:36:18system at that address is inadequate for the number of proposed residents. Thresholds, homes and

1:36:23supports is planning for eight full-time residents at 47 Highland Road plus visitors to the site as

1:36:29well as medical personnel that will necessarily be visiting. According to the Building Code of Ontario,

1:36:37the minimum working capacity of a septic tank shall be the greater of 3,600 liters and a in

1:36:45residential occupancies twice the daily design sanitary sewage flow. The estimated sanitary

1:36:52outflow according to the province of Ontario for a five-bedroom house is listed at 2,500 liters per

1:36:57day. The proposed use of 47 Highland Road is estimated to be approximately 4,000 liters per day

1:37:04imposing on threatened land at 87 Highland Road causing contamination of surface and ground water

1:37:12that feeds directly into the Clife Creek and Aramasa River, elevated nitrate and bacterial levels,

1:37:18harming amphibians, fish and invertebrates, soil destabilization and vegetation die-off

1:37:25around the leaching field, risk of bioaccumulation of toxins in species already under stress.

1:37:33To approve the development at 87 Highland Road without first addressing the septic risks at

1:37:3847 Highland Road would be negligent. These sites are hydrologically connected and pollution from

1:37:44one easily impacts the health of the other. There are irreversible impacts of this development.

1:37:52If severance is granted the consequences would include loss of habitat for endangered species,

1:37:58fragmentation of wildlife corridors, increased runoff, erosion and pollution, greater human

1:38:05wildlife conflict, as well as a loss of green carbon sinks and increased urban heat. Even if

1:38:12only a single dwelling is proposed the initial clearing, grading, infrastructure work and winter

1:38:17salt salting would undermine the ecological balance of this sensitive area. I ask of this committee

1:38:25to deny not defer the severance request for 87 Highland Road. Number two, mandate a comprehensive

1:38:33environmental impact study including hydrological mapping of septic flows in the area. Number three,

1:38:40work towards designating this land as protected open space or incorporating it into the Guelph

1:38:46Conservation Land Inventory. Number four, require urgent assessment and upgrade of the septic system

1:38:54at 47 Highland Road to prevent further leaching and runoff. As a final thought, in Guelph we pride

1:39:01ourselves on being stewards of the land, on making decisions grounded in science, sustainability and

1:39:07foresight. Approving the severance would not only violate that ethos, it would put rare species,

1:39:14precious water and future resilience at risk. Let us protect what cannot be replaced.

1:39:21Thank you for your time and for your leadership on this critical issue.

1:39:26Thank you for your presentation. If you want to wait right there, my colleagues may have some

1:39:30questions for you. Committee members, do we have any questions of this delegate?

1:39:33Seeing none, while you're there I'd like to ask city staff about the issue raised about septic.

1:39:45Were this to be further developed? I would understand that the building code

1:39:50application would have to go forward and that septic evaluation would be part of that. Am I

1:39:55correct in that? To the chair, that is correct but I will note that I don't believe a septic system

1:40:09is a permitted use in the NHS. That would be development, it would definitely be something

1:40:17we would look at. But there's an existing residence on the location, is there not? Yes, and

1:40:25yep. So there is a program for existing septic properties where they are

1:40:37I'm sorry, evaluated and they have to submit reports to the city. Okay, thank you very much,

1:40:48Ms. Patzer. Any other questions? Yes, we're good. Yes, so through the chair to Ms. Patzer,

1:40:56I just have a follow-up question. So you mentioned a process for evaluating the septic systems on

1:41:04existing residences. How is that process triggered? Through the chair, the city does have record of

1:41:12all the properties in this gulf with septic system. Okay, sorry, through the chair, that's helpful.

1:41:24But is it on transaction of the property or is it as part of the building code review on like

1:41:32changes to the rest of the structure? I'm just trying to get at like if there is a process and

1:41:39you have a list kind of how do you identify which properties on that list are going to go through

1:41:44the process at any given time. Through the chair, if additional development is proposed on a property

1:41:51where there is an existing septic, it's evaluated through the building code if the existing septic

1:41:59has the capacity for the any addition. Okay, that answers the question. I appreciate it. Thank you.

1:42:09Thank you. Any other questions of the applicant or pardon me the delegate? Seeing none, let me

1:42:16thank you again for your presentation this afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1:42:21Madam Secretary Tersher, do we have another delegate?

1:42:26Yes, Mr. Chair. The final registered delegate was Julie Lobb Singer.

1:42:47Welcome. Can you state your name for the record please? Sure. My name is Julie Lobb Singer and

1:42:53I live at 31 Highland Road. And you have like your other delegates 10 minutes to address the committee

1:43:00and you can make as much use of that time as you'd like. Okay. Well, thank you for the opportunity

1:43:06to speak regarding the proposed severance of 47 and 87 Highland Road and the possible donation

1:43:13of 87 Highland Road to Crow Shield Lodge through a land trust. It came as quite a shock to us last

1:43:20week when we happened to notice the committee of adjustment sign posted at 47 Highland.

1:43:26Honestly, we weren't even sure what it meant. As members of the public, it's very difficult to

1:43:32orient ourselves and fully understand what is actually being proposed. So for instance, the

1:43:38maps provided were unclear and the language used in the proposal was complex and details about

1:43:44environmental buffers were confusing. But to help us understand better, to understand the situation,

1:43:50we began gathering information to make an informed response. Our first call was to the city and the

1:43:58committee of adjustment. I had the pleasure of speaking with Jordan McDonald, Council and

1:44:04committee assistant, who was extremely helpful in clarifying the details of the application.

1:44:10I also contacted Van Harten, the land surveyors and agents for the application, who responded

1:44:17promptly and healthfully. Additionally, I reached out to thresholds. Unfortunately, it took several

1:44:23attempts before I received a response. When I finally did hear back, the explanation regarding

1:44:29the donation of the forest and how it would be managed was vague. It seemed that even thresholds

1:44:35was unclear about how the land would be overseen. Needless to say, the information we gathered

1:44:42from these various sources raised significant concerns for us and our neighbors. I lived at

1:44:4831 Highland Road with my partner for 34 years. Just to paint a picture, our street and the

1:44:54surrounding neighborhoods are full of people who care for one another. We support each other with

1:45:00gardening, grass cutting, watering, snow shoveling, grocery runs. Simply put, we are good neighbors

1:45:08who look after and look out for each other. We have many children in the neighborhood,

1:45:14ranging from toddlers to teenagers. It brings us great joy to see them outside playing basketball

1:45:20in the boulevard, biking, rollerblading, scootering, playing disc golf, building snow forts, playing tag,

1:45:28or jumping in the large puddle that formed outside our house after heavy rain. Ours is a very

1:45:33child-active neighborhood. Please keep that in mind as I highlight some of our concerns.

1:45:40As you know, children are very impressionable. As a former principal of various JK-degree 8

1:45:47schools for 15 years, I've seen that firsthand. We also have elderly neighbors, one in particular,

1:45:55who won't tell me her age, but is close to my mother's. She regularly walks up the hill past

1:46:0047 and 87 Highland to catch the bus or do her shopping. She does this because she feels safe

1:46:07in our community. I wanted to share this background information so you understand the character of

1:46:13our neighborhood before I continue. We first learned about Threshold's extraordinary needs

1:46:20program moving into our neighborhood in early June when we were invited to an open house.

1:46:26Initially, and frankly, still we have concerns about Threshold's presence at 47 Highland,

1:46:33as it represents a significant change and will impact the current fabric of our community.

1:46:40There's nothing we can do about that now, except the hope that our new neighbors will

1:46:44enhance and contribute positively to our neighborhood. However, today we're here to speak specifically

1:46:53about Threshold's proposed severance and its intentions to donate the natural heritage system,

1:47:00wetland, to Crow Shield Lodge. The first question that came to mind was why is the

1:47:07severance necessary? The current setup has protected 87 Highland Road for many decades.

1:47:14How will the proposed severance and donation offer more protection than what already exists?

1:47:21It's important to note that Crow Shield's Lodge's website references the use of land for healing

1:47:27practice and reconciliation, which we've heard, and mentions various structures they erect on the

1:47:32property, including tepees, wall tents, teaching lodges, and sweat lodges. While their mission is

1:47:39noble, the opportunities they provide to both Indigenous and non-Indigenous people will

1:47:44inevitably increase foot traffic. This raises concerns that stewardship of the land may lead

1:47:50to more structures and human presence in an area that is currently untouched and teeming with wildlife.

1:47:59At present, 87 Highland Road is home to deer, blue herons, wild turkeys, coyotes, foxes, rabbits,

1:48:07various species of birds, and other animals. These are the true stewards of the land.

1:48:13Increased human activity will necessitate infrastructure for waste management, traffic,

1:48:20and parking, which will disturb the entire ecosystem. It would be a great shame to disrupt

1:48:27such a serene, undisturbed property. Other questions continue to weigh in our mind.

1:48:34Why did Thresholds Purchase 87 Highland Road, a 4.3-hectare parcel, only to donate it for

1:48:42conservation purposes? It doesn't make sense. Why would a non-profit organization focus on providing

1:48:49housing for those in need spend money on more than 10 acres of already protected natural heritage

1:48:56system land instead of investing those funds into additional housing? Additionally, and I want to be

1:49:04open and honest here, another concern is whether Thresholds and Crow Shield Lodge intend to allow

1:49:11and encourage or welcome encampments or overnight camping. Such use would not align with the goals

1:49:18of land conservation and wetland preservation. Our community is deeply concerned. We are extremely

1:49:27worried about the impact on the wetlands and the character and safety of our neighborhood.

1:49:33We support City staff's recommendation to defer the application. We respectfully ask the Committee

1:49:39to conduct an in-depth investigation and analysis of this application and to consider the potential

1:49:46harm it may cause to the wetland, the forest, and our neighborhood if it is approved. Thank you.

1:49:55Thank you very much for your presentation. And if you want to write right there,

1:50:00committee members may have some questions for you. Do we have any questions of this

1:50:05delegate committee members? Member Goodfellow. Yes, with apologies for taking up so much time today,

1:50:15but I think I've gone deep into this application and I do have a question, but I think it's for

1:50:21City staff. So through the chair to City staff, the delegate mentioned parking and that wasn't

1:50:30something that I had considered when I was initially looking at this, but it is a good question. Is

1:50:35there space nearby or on the property at 87 Highland for parking for participants who might be

1:50:47visiting the site for programming? Through the chair to Member Goodfellow,

1:50:54based on the drawings we've provided, it looks like there is not adequate and available space for

1:50:59parking areas on the land as the entirety of the severed lands is zoned as natural heritage

1:51:06system, which would not permit parking areas. Thank you. That's helpful.

1:51:13Thank you. Any other questions for the delegate or staff based on the presentation? Seeing none,

1:51:20again, let me sincerely thank you for your presentation. Thank you. At this point,

1:51:27Madam Secretary Treasurer, the first delegate, have they appeared? No? Okay. At this point,

1:51:35then I will turn it over to people who are here in the Chamber. If there's anyone who wishes to

1:51:43speak to this application, would you like to come forward? Yes, please come forward.

1:52:28Good afternoon. Can you state your name for the record, please? Yes. My name is Ron Asseltein

1:52:33and I live at 107 Glenburni Drive. And you have 10 minutes to address the committee. You can make

1:52:39as much use of that time as you'd like. Thank you, Mr. Chair. It won't take 10 minutes, but

1:52:45when Threshold first came to our neighborhood, they held an open house. I forget the date now,

1:52:51but it was in June and it was a very cordial open house. A lot of the neighbors and people from

1:52:57Glenburni Drive and Highland went over and we met the executive director and the people that were

1:53:04running it. And when I spoke to the counselors that were there that are going to be working there,

1:53:12they were quite frankly surprised at how welcoming our neighbors were and how we

1:53:20treated them with respect, asked them questions, and they answered our questions. And it was very

1:53:27cordial and we understand that everybody needs a second chance. So Threshold is there

1:53:34and we understand that. But the paint is not even drier on the Threshold and now all of a sudden

1:53:43they want to sever land and add more structures to that very sensitive environmental area.

1:53:53I'm just saying what's the end game here? That's what I'm asking because when I spoke with the

1:53:58executive director, he was very cordial and he said that he had purchased or they had purchased

1:54:04between 9 and 11 acres back into the wetlands and I said what are you going to do with that?

1:54:12And he said we're going to have a nature trail back there. Not once did he mention that there was

1:54:17going to be a sweat lodge or I don't know structures back there. He never mentioned that. He said a

1:54:25nature trail and I said well that seems fair. If people want to go for a walk in the forest they

1:54:30can do that. And all of a sudden here we are now. So I'm asking the question that a lot of our

1:54:36neighbors are asking. Where does this end? Where does this stop? Where do we start looking after

1:54:45our natural environment back there and we have all kinds of animals, birds, flowers, etc. behind

1:54:53there and it's a forest. It's a living, breathing forest back there. And I just want to know,

1:54:59you know, where this came up because he never mentioned it to me when he spoke to me on the

1:55:04front porch of Threshold. He never said anything about this. So I just want to know, maybe I should

1:55:10ask him what his plans are because he certainly didn't give them to me that day. And that's

1:55:16how they think upsets a lot of people. Threshold came, we accepted it, it's a done deal. We're trying

1:55:24to be good neighbors here. And then all of a sudden this shows up. So I'm just I'm just want to ask

1:55:31a pointed question to him as to what's the end game here? What's the next step? Where do we go from

1:55:37here? Thank you, sir. I appreciate you. Thank you very much for your wait right there. My colleagues

1:55:46may have some questions for you. Okay, please. Committee members, do we have any questions

1:55:50of this delegate? Seeing none, thank you again for your comments. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Appreciate it.

1:56:01Do we have any other members of the gallery who would like to speak to this application?

1:56:13Yes, please come forward. Good afternoon. Can you speak, state your name for the record? It's

1:56:39Paul Zego. I live at 26 Elm, Neacor. And like your neighbors, you have 10 minutes to address the

1:56:46committee. Okay, I won't take too much time here. I guess the one question is, can I ask him directly?

1:56:52Unfortunately, that's not the nature of the hearing. However, we will take note of what you've said if

1:57:00and likely the applicant will address some of your other neighbors' concerns. Okay, I've just

1:57:08heard about this a day ago. Understood. And I'm back from holidays. So I'm sorry I'm not totally

1:57:14prepared here, but my question, my understanding is that there is going to be another structure and

1:57:19there's going to be up to 12 other individuals that are going to be who have,

1:57:28that we're going to be housing in this,

1:57:32in this property. There's going to be another structure. You know, we're going to have like

1:57:39up to 16 people in this whole, in this area who have a number of different problems and whatever.

1:57:47Is that correct? That doesn't appear to be in the application, but I'm sure as I said,

1:57:54the applicant will likely address that in their closing comments. Okay, so

1:58:00can I address this to the city staff? Where's the, why did I hear this? Essentially, as a

1:58:09delegate, sir, your role is to express your opinion on the application. Well, I need to write

1:58:16information. It's not a debate. It's not a question and answer. Unfortunately, this is the rules of

1:58:23engagement that we have in this particular form. Okay, so who would get back to me and tell me that?

1:58:29As I said, sir, this is not a debate. You can make your statement, but we're not here to have a

1:58:38question and answer period. Okay, where do I get this information? If you have nothing else to

1:58:44add, sir, I'm going to thank you for your delegation. Okay, am I wasting my time here? Thank you.

1:58:56Are there any other members of the gallery who would like to speak to this application?

1:59:06And I'll ask once again, are there any members of the gallery who would like to speak to this

1:59:11application? And I'll ask a third and final time if there's any other members of the gallery who

1:59:17would like to speak to this. Seeing none, Madam Secretary Treasurer, do we have anyone online

1:59:22who would like to speak to this? Mr. Chair, we don't have any other individuals on the line than

1:59:29I'm aware of. Okay, at this point, I would ask for the applicant to approach the podium and

1:59:40perhaps answer some of the questions that have been raised by the various delegates.

1:59:48Yes, good afternoon again. Thank you. And I appreciate the delegates and their honesty and

1:59:53directness. It's always appreciated. I will try to remember as many of the comments as I can. If I

1:59:58forget them, please feel free to re-ask questions if that's possible. I'll start with the septic

2:00:03question. So the threshold is going through a proper building permit process. That includes

2:00:07replacement of the existing septic tank to accommodate the proposed use of the building.

2:00:11We currently do not have occupancy. occupancy is conditional upon installing the septic tank that

2:00:16has been approved by the building department. That permit was issued today in accordance to

2:00:20building code at which we will follow through with that work. I'm not sure where that information

2:00:25came from. I may jump around a little bit so that I try to remember everything. Thresholds does not

2:00:31support encampments. We will not be encouraging any type of tending encampments or people living

2:00:35on the land. That is untrue. I will paint a little bit of a picture of the existing

2:00:40condition of the land. It may be slightly different than what you have heard. There are

2:00:44existing walking trails on the land. There is an existing teepee on the land. There's an existing

2:00:48fire pit on the land. There is garbage on the land as you would see in any land where people have

2:00:54been hanging out for a long period of time. People use the space all the time. That is excellent.

2:00:59People are allowed to use the spaces. Asking in Kosher Lodge to take care of land is like asking

2:01:05the world's best doctor to take care of your children. This is not about challenging or putting

2:01:12at risk species. It's about giving your land the best opportunity it's ever had to be successful

2:01:18and thrive. It means cleaning up the garbage. It means taking care of the trees. It means taking

2:01:24care of the wildlife and the water for the rest of its existence. You cannot ask for a better care

2:01:30taker of the land. Kosher Lodge, as much as I'm sure residents have been doing a good job,

2:01:38Kosher Lodge would do a better job. What else can I miss? We are not building another building for

2:01:4412 people at risk. I'm not sure where that came from. I apologize if you heard that. Parking. I'm

2:01:50very happy to allocate parking space. Currently at 47 Highland that is available to people who are

2:01:55visiting age to 7 Highland as long as that is within permitted use. We will make arrangements

2:02:00for that if that is a risk to the project. We will do whatever it takes to make this project happen.

2:02:06Reconciliation is one of the most important things we can do with our lives and our privilege and our

2:02:11power. That is an obligation of all people, not just nonprofits. It does not matter if you're a

2:02:17housing organization, insurance company, a firefighter, postman. We are all obligated to

2:02:23follow through with reconciliation our own way. I happen to be coming from position of power and

2:02:27privilege where I'm very lucky to be able to allocate the resources and thresholds and supports

2:02:31to do something that we are incredibly proud of as a part of our organizational mandate,

2:02:36has the ability to help people for generations in Guelph. That is what we do. We help people.

2:02:42Clarence helps people. That is as much as we can expect to do with our lives and we are so proud

2:02:48of that work. It's not just about the land. It's about all the people who will visit there and

2:02:53understand that land going forward. I was lucky enough to walk with one of Clarence's land stewards

2:02:58two weeks ago and learn about caretaker caretaking for us, retracting the environment, understanding

2:03:05the environment. The wealth of that knowledge of that person had in like one ounce of their

2:03:10brain is so much more than I could ever expect to have in my life. I was so jealous that they

2:03:14have this information and be able to spend time with them and participate in that. It was just

2:03:19incredible and I hope that through this process we can give that gift to other residents of Guelph

2:03:23to participate in that as well and understand not only this land but all the land that they come

2:03:28from and its history and their ability to take care of land going forward is a gift to this community,

2:03:35not just the transfer of the land trust to Clarence. I think I got

2:03:42both of the questions but I'm happy if we do a question answer again to answer further questions.

2:03:47Thank you. Committee members, any questions of the applicant?

2:03:54I have I guess one question that's been raised a couple of times by some of the delegates

2:03:59and that is they refer to new construction and I know that you've addressed it a little bit. However

2:04:07I'll ask you and I'll ask city staff to opine on this as well. A sweat lodge or a TP

2:04:14is a temporary structure. Am I correct in that assumption? That it's correct. Okay and I just

2:04:21wanted to make that clear that a sweat lodge isn't a concrete block structure somewhere or

2:04:27or a restaurant or something. I'll speak on behalf of the team when I say the indigenous

2:04:31populations use the resources of the land that are available to build structures that are in

2:04:38a harmonious relationship with the land and not working and contributing to it. I will say

2:04:43I love the city of Guelph. We see them as partners in this process. We look forward to working together

2:04:48to bring this to fruition. So if that means land management plan that means conversations going

2:04:52forward like we will figure it out to get to a place where we can benefit the community which

2:04:58we believe this project does. But I would love to see it be awarded today. Just to make it clear.

2:05:07Thank you. I think at this point we're going to go and committee and consider

2:05:15what's been said both by the applicant and by the many delegates. So committee members

2:05:22what is your wish? Do we want to proceed with staff's recommendation to defer this or

2:05:30do you want to entertain another motion? Member Spears. I'm very happy to accept staff's

2:05:41suggestion and move that we defer this application. Is that a motion? That's a motion. Do we have a

2:05:49seconder? Member Goodfellow. There is no debate on a deferral. At this point I will ask the

2:05:57secretary treasurer to call the vote. Thank you chair. Committee members please indicate your

2:06:03vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion which is to defer the application. In favor.

2:06:10Thank you chair Smith. Member Fitzpatrick. In favor. Member Goodfellow. In favor.

2:06:17Member Membranio. In favor. Member Meir. In favor. Member Ross. In favor. And member Spears. In

2:06:25favor. That's carried Mr. Chair. Your application has been deferred. Madam Secretary Treasurer may

2:06:39we have the next applicant please? I've had a little bit of advice and I'd just like to address the

2:07:08elephant in the room of the last application. What a deferral means is that city staff have

2:07:15recommended that this isn't defeated but it can come back at a later date based on

2:07:24conversations with the city staff or if nothing has been done over a time period it will elapse.

2:07:34So there will be there may be another hearing on this in the near future. So

2:07:40Madam Secretary Treasurer may we have the next application please? The next application is file

2:07:53B-43-24 consent to create new law with one retained lot at 2162 Gordon Street. I'll note for those

2:08:02attending remotely if you wish to speak to this application you can do so by calling the number

2:08:08displayed on the screen that number is 519-822-1260 extension 2524 and when you call in staff will

2:08:17give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely. I'll also note that staff has a brief

2:08:23presentation after the applicant has provided their presentation. Is the applicant present?

2:08:34Yes Mr. Chair. There we are. Good afternoon. Can you state your name and your relationship to the

2:08:39application please? Good afternoon Mr. Chair and members of the committee. My name is Dana Anderson.

2:08:45I'm a partner and planner with MHBC planning and I am the authorized agent for the application.

2:08:53Thank you and can you tell me if the sign was posted to us per the planning act?

2:08:58Yes it was Mr. Chairman. Thank you and you have 10 minutes to address the committee so

2:09:06please make use of as much of that time as you'd like. Thank you Mr. Chairman. We did submit

2:09:12a brief set of slides. Thank you so much and I will ask to advance the slides as I go through my

2:09:19presentation. So once again my name is Dana Anderson. I'm here on behalf of our client

2:09:28Hall's Pond Cooperative Development Corporation and I am joined today by Mr. Jeffrey McGrath from

2:09:34Options for Homes who are part of the Hall's Pond Cooperative. Also Mr. Matthew Schumann with

2:09:40McCarthy-Tatro and just to note Mr. Chairman they've both registered to speak but really only for the

2:09:45purpose of questions if needed. So our client is seeking a consent today on the lands located at

2:09:522162 Gordon Street and this is for a very specific purpose with a very unique context which I will

2:10:01address further in my presentation. So this application was deferred from our original submission

2:10:06to the committee in 2024 for an opportunity to meet with staff to discuss their comments and the

2:10:12report and we have done that. We met with staff in October of 2024 and more recently in June of 2025

2:10:22and staff's position on this application as is set out in their staff report continues to be that

2:10:27the application is premature and does not conform to the official plan. I would note that we do have

2:10:34comments from the Grand River Conservation Authority conveying that they have no objections to the

2:10:39application. And while Mr. Chair we understand staff's position we respectfully disagree

2:10:47and appreciate the opportunity today to present our justification to the committee with the hopes

2:10:53that the committee will consider the approval of this consent again given the unique context that

2:10:58we find ourselves within. Next slide please. Firstly in terms of the consent itself the land

2:11:06subject to the consent are approximately 42 hectares in size with approximately 383 meters of

2:11:14frontage along Gordon Street. The subject lands are currently owned by the foundation for the support

2:11:20of international medical training. The portion of the subject lands to be purchased or severed are

2:11:26shown in the tan color on the slide and comprise of approximately 15.85 hectares with 127 meters of

2:11:34frontage along Gordon Street. The retained lands are shown in the purple and they will have 256 meters

2:11:42of frontage on Gordon Street and are approximately 26 hectares in size. While the application does

2:11:49reflect development as is expressed through the definition for development and that includes the

2:11:55creation of a lot it's my opinion that one cannot equate the creation of this parcel with the physical

2:12:02development of the land which requires further processes in terms of draft plans, site plans,

2:12:07and rezoning as well as a host of supportive studies and plans. The physical development of the

2:12:16land is contemplated by the secondary plan would require and actually none of that can happen

2:12:22with first creating this parcel in again this specific context. So to put it bluntly without

2:12:29this consent the implementation of the secondary plan objectives from the city cannot occur by

2:12:36options for homes who are focused on delivering attainable home ownership units. The retained

2:12:42lands which will continue to be owned by the foundation also need and seek the benefit from

2:12:48this consent as it allows those lands to implement the conservation of the lands in accordance again

2:12:54with the secondary plan for Claremont B. Next slide please. So as noted I did stress there is a

2:13:02unique and nuanced background and context for these lands which also result results in the

2:13:07severance not creating a precedent for other lands. These lands have been the subject of a

2:13:14purchase and sale agreement between Hall's Pond and the foundation since 2014 and when Hall's Pond

2:13:23first entered into that agreement of purchase and sale the city had just commenced the Claremont B

2:13:28secondary plan process and the lands were within the study area for the secondary plan and we

2:13:36initially identified to staff our intent to apply for a consent in 2014 to enable the parcel sale.

2:13:43However staff at that time advised us that based on the official plan policies at the time we needed

2:13:49to wait for the secondary plan process to be completed in order to apply for and obtain a

2:13:55severance and this would ensure in staff's opinion at that time that land use designations

2:14:00were in place and approved by council in the secondary plan. So we waited and we invested

2:14:07or options invested significant time and resources through the city's Claremont B secondary plan

2:14:13process with an expectation to proceed with the severance once that process had been completed.

2:14:20Options for homes were fully engaged and involved throughout the Claremont B secondary plan process

2:14:26over the many years including the Ontario Land Tribunal hearing and the resolution of appeals

2:14:33through a settlement with the city. The severed lands to be purchased were always noted as a

2:14:39separate parcel through the Claremont B secondary plan process through the OLT hearing and identified

2:14:46through the minutes of settlement. Next slide please. So in relation to the Claremont B secondary

2:14:53plan you'll see on the slide the severed parcel is shown here in the red outline in the hatching

2:14:58and this was referenced as I mentioned throughout the process as well as at the OLT hearing and in

2:15:04the minutes of settlement. The consent enables options to undertake all of the required studies,

2:15:11support city-led initiatives, work with the city and other landowners and eventually submit

2:15:17subdivision zoning and other applications to facilitate development on the severed lands

2:15:22in accordance with the secondary plan schedules and policies. Mr. Chairman one of the issues that

2:15:29staff raises is conformity with the official plan and I would note that the policy context and

2:15:35evaluation of the requested consent is set out in great detail in our planning justification report

2:15:41which form part of the consent application and submission and that justification addresses all

2:15:47of the Planning Act requirements for the consent as well as the requirements under the city's

2:15:52official plan in terms of policies related to consent applications. It should be noted that

2:15:59section 51-24 of the Planning Act states and I say this expressly in considering a draft plan

2:16:08consent regard shall be had as to whether the plan conforms to the official plan. It's very important

2:16:16to note that the plan in this case is the boundary line for a parcel that was clearly identified

2:16:22as a separate parcel through the secondary plan process and in the secondary plan. The difference

2:16:28between to have regard to conformity with an official plan and to conform to an official plan

2:16:35lies in the degree of obligation and interpretive flexibility in decision making and decision

2:16:40making in this case by the committee must consider whether a proposal in its context

2:16:47generally aligns with the official plan but not strictly bound to or or rejected on the basis

2:16:54that it does not fully conform. The committee as any approval body in this case has discretion

2:17:02and can look and weigh factors in this case such as the broader public interest, unique site context,

2:17:09evolving policies and the specific history related to these lands. And in my opinion regard

2:17:16has been had to conformity with the official plan. The creation of the parcel I would stress does not

2:17:22sorry result in any physical development or change to the lands. There are no changes to

2:17:30any aspect to the land, its use or functions. This consent application would impact nothing.

2:17:38There are no new buildings or structures. There's no new access. There's no servicing.

2:17:42There's no site alteration. There's no grading. There's no change to land use and there are no

2:17:47changes to the NHS. No changes to the intent or the purpose of the Claremont B secondary plan

2:17:54or any of the requirements in the Claremont B secondary plan. This application does not

2:18:00preclude or impact further studies or work that would be required. But what is in fact in place

2:18:09is that it provides more certainty and more coordination to actually ensure the secondary

2:18:15plan can be implemented. The creation of this boundary facilitates the sale of the lands that

2:18:20in fact is needed to move to the next steps in the process through which the lands will be subject

2:18:26to again significant study, additional approvals and through which the actual physical development

2:18:33and implementation of the secondary plan will occur and will allow the provision of new housing

2:18:39to take place. All of which I would surmise is within the public interest. So our request for

2:18:45this consent is a unique context in that it is needed to facilitate options participation in

2:18:51the next steps in the development process to achieve the required approvals. Without this consent

2:18:57options given its structure cannot and does not have the certainty it needs to proceed with the

2:19:03level of commitment and the financial investment in the development approvals and process necessary

2:19:10to implement development through the secondary plan. And so while staff note that the consent is

2:19:16premature. Thank you that is your time. I hate to interrupt but that is your time. If you want to

2:19:24stand by my colleagues may have some questions for you. Committee members do we have any questions

2:19:30of the applicant? Seeing none I do have a question. In your cover letter you note under

2:19:48subsection E, small letter E that it would maintain the grade and elevation of highways.

2:19:56Similarly with F and M that these would be made these various items would be maintained. I'm curious

2:20:03if in your opinion the severance would then allow for these changes to be made. Yes through you Mr

2:20:14Chair. The intent of this is to create a boundary for the sole purpose of

2:20:20conveyance to options for homes. Once that is completed the next steps in the process

2:20:28which are set out in detail in the secondary plan would require extensive studies coordination

2:20:34with other landowners. There's a landowners agreement, cost sharing agreements, various

2:20:40broader studies for area servicing. There's the participation actually in the environmental

2:20:45assessment work along Gordon Street and all of that in order for it to be facilitated with options

2:20:53requires that this consent be granted. And to your question it cannot happen beforehand.

2:20:59Okay thank you. Committee members any questions of the applicant?

2:21:07Seeing none I under again thank you and if you want to wait

2:21:14city staff is going to have a presentation and we may have members of the public who delegate.

2:21:19So if you want to stay on the line we'll be right back with you. So at this point I'm going to ask

2:21:27city staff for their presentation. Good afternoon committee members and Mr Chair. So I'm Lindsay

2:21:35with the planning department. I'm a senior planner. I haven't met some of the committee members yet so

2:21:41nice to be here. So I'm not going to go through any of the land use designations. I think the

2:21:46applicant did a good job outlining what is what was approved in the Claire Meltby secondary plan

2:21:53in terms of land use designations but in terms of our staff position. Staff are not in support

2:21:59of the severance. We do feel the application is premature. As outlined in staff comments

2:22:04development is defined in the official plan as the creation of a new lot. A change in land use or

2:22:10the construction of buildings and structures requiring approval under the planning act and all

2:22:15development applications within the Claire Meltby secondary plan are subject to planning act

2:22:18requirements and must be evaluated against the enforce and effect policies of the secondary plan

2:22:24and official plan subject to final approval by city council or the committee of adjustment

2:22:29so a private land sale does not determine the appropriateness of a consent application and

2:22:33staff are required to review and evaluate a severance application under the planning act and

2:22:37official policies. The identification of the proposed severed lands through the throughout the

2:22:43Claire Meltby secondary plan process as a defined parcel does not pre-approve the land severance.

2:22:48The schedules of the secondary plan do not define parcels or land ownership and there are no site

2:22:52specific policies in the secondary plan that would allow the proposed severance of this parcel

2:22:57in advance of the Claire Meltby secondary plan policies being satisfied. Development in Claire

2:23:03Meltby is subject to phasing and financing policies of the secondary plan and development is to be

2:23:09implemented in general accordance with the phasing plans in the master environmental

2:23:13servicing plan. The subject lands are located within phase two and phase four according to the

2:23:18MESP and there are a number of infrastructure projects that will have to be completed before

2:23:22development can proceed including a future environmental assessment for Gordon Street.

2:23:28Policy in the secondary plan states that individual developments in the secondary plan area

2:23:33shall not shall generally not be approved until the subject land owner has become a party to a

2:23:39large larger cost sharing agreement to make sure that costs for infrastructure are distributed

2:23:44fairly and equitably. Without these infrastructure projects advancing and alone being completed

2:23:49the ultimate layout and limits of the land are unknown and could cause future constraints to

2:23:53development. In addition to the above the front and rear portions of the subject lands are designated

2:24:00as significant natural areas and natural areas in the official in the secondary plan and subject

2:24:06to natural heritage system policies of the official plan. So severance the severance is proposed

2:24:12through the natural heritage system in the front and rear portions of the lands and we have specific

2:24:17official plan policies in section four that states that development shall not be permitted within

2:24:22the significant natural areas including their established or minimum areas. The proposed severance

2:24:28does not conform to the natural heritage system policies of the official plan nor have the necessary

2:24:33studies to confirm the boundaries of the natural heritage system been completed such as an environmental

2:24:39impact study. The subject lands are zoned urban reserve and the purpose of this zone is to protect

2:24:45the natural heritage features and limit development until such time as further studies are completed.

2:24:50The Claremelby secondary plan establishes land use designations for the secondary plan area

2:24:54however zoning on these lands is to be completed through site specific zoning by law amendment

2:24:58applications and for this reason the lands remain zoned urban reserve. So staff have reviewed the

2:25:05subdivision criteria outlined in section 51-24 of the planning act and do not believe this

2:25:10criterion have been met. The consent does not conform with the phasing policies of the secondary

2:25:15plan and proposes development within the natural heritage system. The dimensions and shape of the

2:25:21proposed law cannot be confirmed in advance of detailed studies including an environmental impact

2:25:25study and development cannot be located within the NHS. That concludes my presentation right now.

2:25:33Thank you Ms. LaTicchi. I appreciate your thoroughness as always.

2:25:38Commitment members do we have any questions of city staff member? Good fellow. Yes so through the

2:25:44chair to city staff I do appreciate the additional detail. I have to say I'm finding this one very

2:25:49confusing and I've been looking for a more straightforward way to wrap my head around

2:25:54what this application is trying to get at. I think though your comments about the servicing of the

2:26:00sites or of this property was very helpful so in my own words I would like to ask you a question

2:26:08and make sure that I am understanding what the limitation is here. So is it the case that if this

2:26:15site is severed prematurely that there would not be, there may be limitations on how it could be

2:26:24serviced going forward because there is not a larger community engagement or developer engagement

2:26:31with how this area of the city will be developed in the future. Am I kind of understanding that

2:26:37correctly? Through the chair to member good fellow there's a number of infrastructure enabling

2:26:46projects that have just started such as the Gordon Street EA and as part of that project

2:26:51the preliminary design for underground utilities such as water mains and sanitary services will

2:26:57also be completed. The purpose of the Gordon Street EA is to implement the recommendations

2:27:04identified in the master environmental servicing plan and the city's transportation plan. In addition

2:27:11the proposed severance lines go right through the natural heritage system which is not supported

2:27:16in our official plan so even if this application was elsewhere in the city not within the

2:27:21clear multi-secondary plan we would still not be recommending approval because you cannot have

2:27:25development within our natural heritage system. And so the purpose of why we're saying this is

2:27:31premature is because there are enabling projects such as the Gordon Street EA and future draft plan

2:27:38of subdivision applications that would detail like the width location of roads so all that stuff

2:27:43coming together could essentially change the ultimate layout of of the parcel to be severed in

2:27:50the future so there may be a future severance in the future once all of those studies have been

2:27:55completed in the draft plan of subdivision process is more underway in terms of like the layout of

2:28:01the roads the environmental impact study has been submitted and reviewed. We can't recommend deferral

2:28:07of this application it was deferred last year at the applicant's request but deferral would not

2:28:13allow enough time for these other projects to be completed within the year so there it's a much

2:28:19longer time frame for the Gordon Street EA and to complete the required development application

2:28:26and studies and as this is in phase two and phase four there's specific phasing policies that have

2:28:31to follow through so like development is would be the first phase would be phase one which

2:28:37doesn't apply to this property so there there's specific phasing for infrastructure

2:28:44so we do feel this is premature at this time and I don't know if I answered your question or not.

2:28:53Yes you did and I appreciate it I do have a follow-up question because I did hear the applicant

2:29:00say that some of these studies that they believe are going to be required for the site

2:29:07will require require them to have this consent approved and so it feels like we're in a chicken

2:29:15and egg situation at least that's my impression but perhaps I'm just not understanding kind of how

2:29:22what the order of operations would be and and maybe you can help clarify that for me thank you.

2:29:30Yeah through the chair to member good fellow the applicant can proceed in

2:29:35doing some of these background studies I believe it's more of a financial decision of

2:29:43the applicant and potential purchaser and seller but the current owner of the property can

2:29:49authorize a potential purchaser to submit at this time it would be considered premature to submit

2:29:55a planning act application just because there are phasing policies and we are not accepting

2:30:01applications in phase two and phase four at this time but that doesn't preclude potential purchaser

2:30:08from doing some background work and studies in advance of submission of an application and

2:30:14there is a lot of work to be done in terms of coming to our development review committee and

2:30:18getting comments back and doing all that stuff that would come normally through a planning act

2:30:23application. Okay yeah this has been very helpful I do appreciate the additional detail I think

2:30:30that's good for now thank you. Thank you member good fellow yes member Roth.

2:30:38I have a question to planning through you Mr. Chair through to planning staff a

2:30:44background question about the Claire Maltby secondary plan just in terms of developer

2:30:50initiated activity that's taken place to date for example whether there's a cost sharing group

2:30:57that's being formed whether or not a significant land assembly has taken place by developers.

2:31:08Through the chair to member Ross I believe we haven't seen any cost sharing agreements taken

2:31:14place like we've had some pre-consultation discussions with some applicants and landowners on

2:31:21the left side of Gordon Street in phase one and there is the EA process has started for

2:31:32Street A which is on the left side of Gordon Street as well but cost sharing agreements are

2:31:37really amongst different landowners to work out themselves and then they would be coming into the

2:31:43city and we would be reviewing it at that time we haven't seen any at this stage and seeing how

2:31:49this is in phase two and phase four it would be a little bit I believe premature for us to

2:31:53be looking at that right now. Yes good. Through you Mr. Chair just a follow-up question then

2:32:02so I understand then phase could you describe where phase one is relative to the applicant's

2:32:11proposal? I would have to pull that up on our master environmental servicing plan because it's not

2:32:19it's not a clean boundary. Is it which side of Gordon Street is it predominantly on?

2:32:29I'd have to double check that I think a lot of it is in a lot of phase one is on the west side of

2:32:34Gordon Street just south of Poppy Drive where the future Street A is where the future south end rec

2:32:42center is going to be but there is also some some properties in phase one located on the east side

2:32:48of Gordon Street but these this particular property is in phase two and phase four.

2:32:55And presumably the timing of those phases is all predicated upon submission of the necessary

2:33:03studies is that how it would work? It has to deal more with infrastructure financing infrastructure

2:33:09there's specific phasing policies the EA is being completed so it could be several years out before

2:33:16phase two and phase four can actually be developed. And how quickly will do you have a time frame for

2:33:21phase one how imminent is do you expect to see draft plans a subdivision coming forward?

2:33:29I don't know at this time like the Gordon Street or sorry not the Gordon Street the

2:33:34EA for Street A I believe has just commenced so that's going to be a couple years out

2:33:39don't have any specific timings timing for when actual development applications will be submitted

2:33:45in phase one. Thank you. Thank you member Ross member Speer. Yeah through you Mr. Chair to city staff again.

2:33:58I'm really struggling with this idea that an owner will have to pay for studies

2:34:05it makes sense to me but the current owner it doesn't make sense that they would pay for these

2:34:11studies they want to sell this land and the future owner would no doubt want to pay for those things

2:34:17but not if they don't own it and the only way they can own it is if it's severed.

2:34:22This is really what I'm struggling with and I know there's I don't if you have an answer that

2:34:27I'd be great I suspect it's way more complicated than that and I have a little follow-up in there

2:34:33which is you're talking about you can't develop on an NHS a natural heritage system I understand that

2:34:43if the severance was changed if the shape of the boundaries

2:34:48recluded the the heritage system would a whole lot of this problem go away or is it still the same problem?

2:34:57So through the chair to member Speer's so it would be outside of the natural heritage system

2:35:04if the law lines were changed and we did have a discussion with the applicant about that however

2:35:09it still would be considered premature because it is still in phase two and phase four of the

2:35:13clear meltby secondary plan and there are specific policies in our secondary plan that deal with

2:35:18phasing and financing and everything else so we would still have the same recommendation.

2:35:24Through you Mr. Chair I have just have a follow-up just as more of a procedural thing if we refuse this

2:35:31at what point could this applicant come back and make a future sensible request or a timely

2:35:37request for consent or is that done if we refuse it? So if the application is refused there's a

2:35:46couple options for the applicant they can appeal the decision to the Ontario land tribunal the other

2:35:52option would be for the current owner to authorize the potential purchaser to proceed with coming to

2:36:05the development review committee however the submission of applications would actually still

2:36:11be considered premature because of our phasing policies but that doesn't preclude

2:36:17a potential purchaser from paying for the studies and going ahead and doing some background work in

2:36:22the meantime but in terms of when a future application could come in I can't answer that

2:36:27for you it could still be years out I don't have a specific date there's a lot of work to be completed

2:36:33such as the Gordon Street EA and I don't have a specific timeline for that that I believe has

2:36:37commenced recently but in terms of actual specific timelines of when they can actually come in

2:36:45it's it's I don't know it could be way far out I think my question was simpler

2:36:52if if a consent is refused can that consent ever come back and be applied for again?

2:37:03Yes they can come back and apply for it again but I at a later date a year two years how what's the

2:37:11timeline I don't know I don't have the exact timeline it would be when it's not considered

2:37:15premature and when they follow through with when when development proceeds in in the order

2:37:21envisioned through the clear multi-secondary plan policies in terms of phasing and financing and

2:37:27the Gordon Street EA is completed. Okay thanks. Thank you members Spears. Member Ross.

2:37:37Through you Mr. Chair to staff so just so that I understand the staff report

2:37:46um the severance would compromise the natural natural heritage features on the site is that

2:37:55do I understand that properly? So the creation of a law is considered to be development and

2:38:01development is not permitted within the natural heritage system as per official plan policies.

2:38:12May I ask a follow-up? So the applicant has made statements saying that no development is intended

2:38:22and I understand what you're saying that as far as the planning act is concerned it is constitutes

2:38:27development and the applicant also recognized that. Could you review again so that I'm absolutely clear

2:38:35um how uh staff view that um that statement by the consultant for the applicant?

2:38:47So I believe the applicant is saying that there's no you won't see any physical development like

2:38:52you're not going to be seeing the severance is just going to allow the sale of the property from one

2:38:57owner to another um it's going to allow um no physical development in terms of no buildings

2:39:05or roads or anything like that. However we have to review it in terms of um the actual definition

2:39:12of development which is the creation of a law so that's where staff are coming from as well. It's

2:39:18the creation of a law is considered to be the development and development is not permitted

2:39:23within the natural heritage system and it is only permitted within certain um if the policies of the

2:39:30clear multi-secondary plan in terms of phasing and financing. Thank you Mr. Barass. Any other

2:39:40questions of city staff? Unfortunately I do and bear with me here. In their cover letter the

2:39:53proponents says and I'm going to quote from it in November of 2019 um MHBC met with city planning

2:40:01staff to discuss the severance of the subject lands and the submission of a consent application.

2:40:08At that time staff recommended that severance be deferred until the clear multi-secondary plan

2:40:15had been approved so that the land use designation of the secondary plan could be defined. City

2:40:22planning staff informed that following the approval of the clear multi-secondary plan the consent

2:40:28application would be appropriate to proceed allowing for the long anticipated sale of the severed

2:40:35lands. So with that lengthy preamble I'd like to ask city staff it sounds like there's a conflicting

2:40:47view of whether or not this is this is the appropriate time for this to transpire. Am I getting

2:40:57staff's feeling that that's the case? Yes to the chairs so we feel that this application is

2:41:03premature without um some of the necessary infrastructure projects such as the Gordon

2:41:09Street EA and Environmental Impact Study and anything else that would come along with

2:41:14complete application or requirements in terms of um discussions that were um had with staff back in

2:41:202019. I was not involved directly however it was I believe it was with some of our former staff

2:41:25however it's my understanding that um there is no indication of support for the applications at

2:41:32that time. It was there previously was a policy in our official plan that said because these lands

2:41:38were previously designated as reserve lands that specifically said you cannot submit an application

2:41:43so there's a difference between um submitting an application and saying that staff will support it.

2:41:48So the policy said you can't submit it until the secondary plan was completed back in 2019 the

2:41:53secondary plan was still in the early stages so there was no site specific policies or land

2:41:59use designation so in 2019 staff it was my understanding didn't say we would we would support

2:42:05it it would say we would it would still have to be evaluated um at the time of um submission against

2:42:11the policies of the secondary plan so there are policies in the secondary plan now that are in

2:42:16fact that deal with phasing and financing um and we have evaluated the application and do feel that

2:42:23it's premature and I also want to note that there is no site specific policy that came out of the

2:42:29Ontario land tribunal settlement so there's no site specific policy in the secondary plan that

2:42:33would allow this specific severance to proceed in advance of our phasing policies. Thank you that's

2:42:41that's quite clear so I I assume too that um someone in the past can't speak for an application

2:42:51years in the future so um I also appreciate that so thank you for that information that's all the

2:42:57questions I have uh committee members do we have any more questions of city staff seeing none um I'm

2:43:05going to now turn to the secretary treasurer to tell us if there are any delegations in the wings.

2:43:14Mr. Chair I can confirm no delegation requests but there may be some in the audience.

2:43:22Can I ask if there's anyone in the chamber who would like to speak to this application

2:43:28and I don't see anyone rushing forward so I'm going to take that as a no and is there anyone

2:43:35online madam secretary treasurer? Okay at this point then we will um go back to the applicant and

2:43:44see if they have any um answers or um would like to respond to some of the questions and answers

2:43:53that have gone forward is the uh there applicant is there please join in. Thank you Mr. Chairman and

2:44:02thank you for the opportunity just just to provide a few brief responses um I know that staff indicated

2:44:09that um there is a process that's required to ensure that the infrastructure the phasing is

2:44:16coordinated in such a way that the I guess the um the lauding fabric or the division of land is not

2:44:24impacted but I would only suggest to you that the clarinwaltby secondary plant has multiple

2:44:29parcels of land um no different than if this consent application was or where it was not approved

2:44:37all of those things cross boundaries of parcels including our own development of our site needs

2:44:42to be coordinated with other landowners and the key point there and I think this was raised by one

2:44:47of the committee members is that in order for this landowner to deliver housing they need to be a

2:44:54landowner they need to own the lands and that cannot occur without this consent. The other thing I

2:45:02would note is that the landowner agreements the cost sharing agreements require land ownership by

2:45:09the individual landowners and again options in this position would not be able to participate and

2:45:15facilitate in that process with respect to staff identifying that they would just need the approval

2:45:22or authorization of the existing owner that is not how it works they would need to be the registered

2:45:28landowners in order to participate in a cost sharing or landowner agreement that's managed by a trustee

2:45:36the other aspect I would just add is that the assumption is that the existing landowner which

2:45:41simply convey or authorize this uh a potential purchaser to proceed we've been doing that since

2:45:482014 options and Mr McGrath can speak is not in a position to continue to operate without the certainty

2:45:59of the process that's ahead of them and I would only just reiterate that with respect to staff's

2:46:05position that this does not conform to the official plan that is not the test that is not the criteria

2:46:11under the planning act it's to have regard for conformity with the official plan and this context

2:46:17is such that it requires us to have this boundary line so that we can proceed with the sale to then

2:46:23fully participate and implement all of the requirements for phasing infrastructure

2:46:29studies and future development applications so I would again reiterate my points about the

2:46:35importance and the nuance of this and it is chicken and egg and it does require sort of

2:46:42this consent application to be able to proceed in regular course thank you very much and we will

2:46:52consider your point of view when we go into committee and at this point that's what I'm going to

2:46:59turn to my colleagues oh sorry mr chairman I see mr. McGrath is here and I I'm sorry just for order

2:47:07I didn't know if he had had a chance to to respond or not yes by all means go ahead thank you um I

2:47:16I didn't necessarily need to need to respond but I just thought I'd turn my camera so sorry sorry

2:47:22I'm just going to interrupt and can you state your name for the record please absolutely my name

2:47:27is Jeffrey McGrath I'm the director of development and options for homes sorry about that I don't mean

2:47:32to cut your grass please go ahead no no problem and I don't want to waste your time either so so

2:47:40really I just thought I would I would turn on my camera so at least there's a there's a face of

2:47:44the organization here as as you folks render your decision I would say that you know that Dana has

2:47:53has hit on the the key points for us we have been participating for for quite some time through the

2:47:59thermal b secondary plan process I think we've acted in in in good faith we had been through

2:48:07you know a an OLT hearing we've resolved that with staff and and we'd really like the opportunity

2:48:13to move forward and as a non for not for profit housing provider all all we want to do is build

2:48:19housing but we recognize that we're going to have to wait here there's lots to do there'll be lots of

2:48:27rezoning subdivisions and site plans and all sorts of other opportunities to work with staff to

2:48:32figure out what we do on this land and really fine tune it but for right now we're asking of you to

2:48:39let us move forward by allowing this severance to move forward so that we can close on the land

2:48:44and continue to participate it really is you know what I've what I've heard in other jurisdictions

2:48:51referred to as a technical severance for financing purposes you know we want to be able to sever this

2:48:57land and do nothing with it other than change title and continue to participate so I'll stop there

2:49:04but I thank the committee for its time thank you mr. McGrath I do appreciate your point of view and

2:49:11your time and focus on this at this point I will now turn to my colleagues and ask for

2:49:20their will what to do wish committee members members fears I'm going out of my usual then

2:49:33and I would like to make a motion that we actually accept this application with unfortunately a no

2:49:41recommendation for conditions because in a normal consent the city gives a whole long list of

2:49:47conditions but in this case because they're recommending refusal there are no conditions

2:49:52so I'm really stuck I want us to get a second on this motion so we can discuss it and that's

2:49:59really my point of making this motion member Ross you're seconding this so we have a motion in front

2:50:06of us ladies and gentlemen to accept this application for severance and I'll entertain

2:50:16debate and discussion mr. Fitzgerald through you mr. chairman so I'm where I'm trying to wrap my head

2:50:26around we've got an applicant that wants to participate wants to contribute to the development

2:50:33of this site when it's time and really what we're looking to do is change who owns the land

2:50:41so I'm struggling to understand where the staff and the city is going to have an issue with this if

2:50:49if they're not looking to change the use of it they're not looking to create something out of

2:50:56it other than they just want to be at the table when everything has to be dealt with yes remember

2:51:07good fellow yes I am having similar thoughts to my colleague here to the right and I I wonder

2:51:16I really liked the language that was suggested about and I'm not going to get it right but

2:51:23but severance or consent for financial purposes for the purposes of you know

2:51:29receiving financial support for future development and so I wondered if that could be turned into a

2:51:35condition that maybe we could then support I also wondered about a condition that you know

2:51:44in some way appropriate language to be TBD but something that limited or restricted the this

2:51:52approval just to the sale and no physical development would be permitted so again I

2:51:59think there's some words missing that would need to be done there but those were my two thoughts

2:52:04coming out of the discussion we've had because I I do agree that this does seem to be a chicken

2:52:09and egg scenario where we want this development ultimately to go ahead on the right timeline

2:52:15and something here to allow the sale would support that does seem a little chicken in the egg does it

2:52:23not yes any other comments on this member Spears I I think that I heard two comments in support I

2:52:35encourage the other members to to perhaps weigh in this and when we get there I'm very happy to

2:52:43change my motion to include a few conditions that would be well you know well in the sensible thing

2:52:50to do I'm not seeing any other discussion I'm going to add my two cents and that is that

2:53:00I'm I'm a little conflicted about this I I accept city staff's position that maybe this is not the

2:53:06correct time that more needs to be done prior to the severance but I am sympathetic to as you're

2:53:15saying the the sort of check in an egg nature of of this to allow it to go forward I'm just

2:53:22wondering if in order to um wordsmith any sort of um additional criteria that perhaps we take a

2:53:32five minute pause and allow that to be crafted is that um is that acceptable to the committee

2:53:41um okay we stand adjourned or not a yes we stand adjourned for five minutes for a brief

2:53:48recess okay I'm going to call the meeting back to order at this point um member good fella did

3:00:37you have an amendment you wanted to propose um yes so I guess I am interested to I understand that

3:00:48um our secretary treasurer had a conversation with city staff about a potential additional

3:00:54condition that would um limit development or that this consent would only be for financing purposes

3:01:03but I think I guess I gather that city staff has some comments and some thoughts on why that may

3:01:09not be appropriate or very difficult to enforce so I would be interested through the chair to

3:01:15city staff to hear their thoughts on that through the chair to member good fellow so any conditions

3:01:25that you impose for a consent application have to be able to be satisfied within the two-year period

3:01:30prior to the issuance of the certificate of officials so and once the certificate of official

3:01:35is issued the conditions would essentially be deemed to have been satisfied so um that condition

3:01:41would essentially not be enforced anymore um but I do note that the lands are zoned as urban

3:01:49reserves so it's not like the applicant can get a building permit or build anything on the lands

3:01:56anyway it's just because the zoning does restrict the use of the land at this time

3:02:04so through the chair thank you I appreciate that clarification and um maybe just a follow-up question

3:02:10so I'm clear there are other processes am I understanding it correctly that there are other

3:02:15processes in place then that would also restrict physical development of that site if we were

3:02:22to approve the application this evening through the chair to member good fellow yeah so part of

3:02:29the reason we didn't recommend any conditions in the event that the committee would approve it it

3:02:35would be because any of the conditions that we recommended well one couldn't be satisfied within

3:02:39the two-year period and even if you were to put something in a development agreement it wouldn't

3:02:43it wouldn't really matter it'd be kind of like a belts and suspenders thing because essentially

3:02:48the land is zoned urban reserve you can't do anything with it there are future planning

3:02:54applications that are required such as a site specific zoning amendment future draft plan of

3:02:59subdivision application prior to any of submission of any of the those applications they do need to

3:03:05come in for pre consultation with the city as well so um there would be no um chance for them to

3:03:13go out and get a building permit and start building what they wanted now anyways so again thank you

3:03:22and so I think then um I am supportive of the motion that is on the floor because I believe it is

3:03:28just to approve the application with no conditions if I'm understanding correctly where we are

3:03:35okay um member spears um madam secretary uh treasurer is that is that in fact correct or are

3:03:44we talk still talking about using that you the normal list of of conditions for for uh severance

3:03:52or is it the situation where they'll never get satisfied because it's too long through the

3:03:59chair to member spears so if the committee is um wishing to approve the application we would still

3:04:04recommend and I was going to mention this shortly um our standard administrative conditions um so those

3:04:09would be um the four conditions we usually apply um for each severance application a reference plan

3:04:16be deposited um that staff would be provided a copy of the draft transfer we'd get an undertaking

3:04:22from the solicitor and the administration fee be paid so we would still recommend those four

3:04:29conditions um if the committee was um desiring to approve the application okay then um I would

3:04:38like to amend my or change my motion to approve this application with the conditions as described by

3:04:46the secretary treasurer okay and the secretary okay with that okay um is there any further

3:04:53discussion at this point um I will turn it over to the secretary treasurer to call the vote please

3:05:02thank you chair committee members please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the

3:05:07motion which is to approve the application um with the four conditions that were mentioned chair

3:05:12smith in favor member fits patrick in favor member good fellow in favor member membrane you in

3:05:20favor member mir in favor member ross in favor and member spears in favor that's carried mr chair

3:05:29your application has been approved um and you're free to leave the meeting if you wish

3:05:36thank you very much mr chair members of the committee and staff you're welcome thank you

3:05:41so much for your time madam secretary treasurer may we have the next applicant please the next

3:05:50application is file a dash 67 slash 25 variance to permit reduced side yard setback for existing pool

3:05:58at 14 penny place note for those attending remotely if you wish to speak to this application

3:06:04you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen the number's 519 822 1260 extension 2524

3:06:12and when you call in staff will give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely

3:06:17is the applicant present yes please come forward can you state your name and your

3:06:42relationships the application please yes sir i'm the applicant my name is john miers

3:06:47my wife and i diane on the property of 14 penny place thank you and can you tell me if the sign

3:06:53was posted as per the planning act yes sir it was and you have 10 minutes to address the committee

3:06:59i have nothing to answer to our to our application okay that's concise and to the point um if you

3:07:10want to wait right there my colleagues may have some questions for you committee members

3:07:15do we have any questions of this applicant um i have one and that concerns um i believe there are

3:07:28two that we're looking at one is for an existing shed and one is for proposed is that correct

3:07:34uh no sir there this is for a pool right as part of the application process there was a

3:07:46um i'm not sure how this fits in but there was a shed on the other side of the lot right

3:07:52that we've since learned is off by a foot or so uh in an email with staff last week i said i will

3:08:00move the shed i didn't realize it was going to become part of the formal process okay and uh

3:08:08that's pretty straightforward and to the point thank you for that um at this point i'm going to

3:08:16ask if city staff have any comments about this application

3:08:21see none oh yes go ahead to you mr chair uh city staff don't have any further comments with

3:08:28respect to this application thank you um are there any members of the public either in the gallery

3:08:34or online who would like to speak to this application mr sherry can confirm we've received no other

3:08:43delegation requests thank you uh committee members what is your wish

3:08:49member remember enough i i moved to approve the application as recommended by staff and do we

3:08:55have a second member mir any discussion on this application seeing none madame secretary treasurer

3:09:05would you call the roll please thank you chair committee members please indicate your vote by

3:09:10responding in favor or opposed to the motion which is to approve the application chair smith

3:09:15in favor member fits patrick in favor member good fellow in favor member membranio in favor

3:09:22member mir in favor member ross in favor and member spears in favor it's carried mr chair

3:09:30your application has been approved chairman members of the committee thank you um at this point um

3:09:41i believe it is uh 10 after 6 um we have quite a large agenda ahead of us um and i'm going to call

3:09:51for a 20 minute recess um so uh we can have a bit of a break and get our feet back under our

3:10:00chairs here in 20 minutes so um do i need a motion for that no i'm going to declare it then

3:10:09so we're in recess for 20 minutes thank you we'll return it to 6 30 it's just not very fast

3:10:33you

3:10:35so actually we made it through three

3:14:22so

3:15:28maybe you just

3:20:49Now I'm going to say something.

3:21:00Yeah.

3:21:01Let's see this sign.

3:21:17It's right here.

3:21:25It's not yet sitting.

3:21:34Check it out.

3:21:35This is not yet.

3:21:48It works here.

3:22:13So city.

3:23:00Go on.

3:23:03You're right.

3:23:04Here.

3:23:07Well, it's.

3:23:09It's all this.

3:23:31Yeah.

3:23:34Yeah.

3:23:40Well, that's.

3:24:00Obviously.

3:24:02Yeah.

3:24:04Sports.

3:24:06Yeah.

3:24:10Yeah.

3:24:12So.

3:24:21Any.

3:24:24Yeah.

3:24:26No.

3:24:28So.

3:24:30Yeah.

3:24:32Just a case.

3:24:34Super.

3:24:36Yeah.

3:24:53Yes.

3:24:55Oh yeah.

3:25:49I just know.

3:25:51Well, that's.

3:25:58So.

3:26:00What's the.

3:26:02I was like.

3:26:17Oh, but.

3:26:19Just like.

3:26:21Yeah.

3:26:58Yep.

3:27:02Yeah.

3:27:20Yeah.

3:27:22Either.

3:27:24Yeah.

3:27:26Yeah.

3:27:35Yeah.

3:27:38That's ready.

3:29:53Good evening and welcome back to the resumed July 10th committee of adjustment meeting.

3:33:37At this point, I would like to ask the secretary treasurer to call the next applicant please.

3:33:44The next application is file a dash 68 slash 25 variants to permit reduced exterior side

3:33:50yard sat back for proposed addition to existing dwelling at 14 gram street.

3:33:56Also note for those attending remotely if you wish to speak to this application you

3:34:00can call 519-822-1260 extension 2524 and when you call in staff will give you instructions

3:34:08on how you can delegate remotely.

3:34:11Is the applicant present?

3:34:13Yes, please come forward.

3:34:20Good evening.

3:34:21Do you want to state your name and your relationship to the application?

3:34:24Catherine Reginotto and my husband and I are the owners of the home.

3:34:28Thank you and can you tell me if the sign was posted as per the planning act?

3:34:33And have you read staff comments and are you in agreement?

3:34:37Myself?

3:34:38Yes.

3:34:39Yes.

3:34:40You have 10 minutes and you can make as much use of that time as you'd wish.

3:34:44I also have nothing to add.

3:34:48Okay.

3:34:49Thank you very much for being for the brevity.

3:34:53At this point let me see if my colleagues have any questions for you.

3:34:57Committee members do have any questions of this applicant?

3:35:01Seeing none.

3:35:03I'm going to turn to city staff.

3:35:05City staff are there any comments regarding this applicant other than application other

3:35:09than what's already been posted?

3:35:12I'm seeing no.

3:35:14Anyone jumping to the microphone so I'll assume that is a no.

3:35:19Are there any members of the public in the gallery who wish to speak to this application?

3:35:24I don't see anyone.

3:35:25Is there anyone who's registered online?

3:35:29Madam Secretary Treasurer.

3:35:31Mr. Chair I can confirm no registered delegates.

3:35:33Okay.

3:35:34Committee members what is your wish?

3:35:40Member Fitzpatrick.

3:35:41Through you Mr. Chairman I would motion that we accept the proposal.

3:35:50Do we have a seconder?

3:35:51Member Mambrenno.

3:35:54Is there any discussion on the motion before us?

3:35:57Seeing none.

3:35:58Madam Secretary Treasurer would you call the roll please?

3:36:02Thank you chair.

3:36:03Committee members please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion

3:36:07which is to approve the application.

3:36:09Chair Smith.

3:36:10In favor.

3:36:11Member Fitzpatrick.

3:36:12In favor.

3:36:13Member Goodfellow.

3:36:14In favor.

3:36:15Member Mambrenno.

3:36:16In favor.

3:36:17Member Meir.

3:36:18In favor.

3:36:20In favor.

3:36:21Member Spears.

3:36:22In favor.

3:36:23That's carried Mr. Chair.

3:36:24Their application has been approved.

3:36:27You're welcome.

3:36:31Madam Secretary Treasurer may we have the next applicant please.

3:36:40The next applications are files B-48-25, B-49-25 and B-50-25 consent to create three new residential

3:36:51lots with one retained residential lot at 486 College Avenue West.

3:36:57Again for those attending remotely if you wish to speak to this application you can

3:37:01do so by calling the number displayed on the screen and when you call in staff will give

3:37:05you instructions on how you can delegate remotely.

3:37:09Is the applicant present?

3:37:10Yes please come forward.

3:37:19Good afternoon can you state your name and your relationship to this application please?

3:37:25Just a second.

3:37:26Are there rear?

3:37:27Beat the mic.

3:37:28My name is Colin Vanderit.

3:37:30I'm here from Van Hart and surveying representing the owner.

3:37:34Thank you and can you tell me if the sign was posted as per the planning act?

3:37:37It was yes.

3:37:39And have you read staff's comments and are you in agreement?

3:37:43Yes and yes.

3:37:45Thank you.

3:37:46You have 10 minutes that you can address the committee.

3:37:48Thank you Chair Smith.

3:37:53So we are applying I don't know sketches up.

3:37:56Excellent thank you.

3:37:58So we're requesting three severances for an existing 30.5 meter wide lot in order to

3:38:04create two new semi-detached dwellings for units.

3:38:11Each lot has space for three parking spots, legal parking spots.

3:38:16It complies with the zoning of RL1 and the official plan.

3:38:22I recommend approval with conditions and we believe this is a great opportunity for

3:38:30gentle intensification where there's existing utilities and existing neighborhood.

3:38:37And so I just want to keep this brief.

3:38:40If you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them.

3:38:44Thank you.

3:38:45Committee members do we have any questions of this applicant?

3:38:54We not reviewed this application in the past.

3:38:57Is that a question for me?

3:39:02Yeah.

3:39:03So actually there was a severance previously approved for this split it in half before the

3:39:08new zoning ball that owner actually just abandoned the severance and it lapsed and expired.

3:39:13And now it's a new owner.

3:39:14Okay.

3:39:15Past and answer.

3:39:16Good break.

3:39:17Thank you very much.

3:39:19And so I'm going to ask if city staff have anything to add.

3:39:24I don't see anyone jumping.

3:39:25Yes.

3:39:26City staff nothing further to add.

3:39:28Mr. Chair.

3:39:29Thank you very much.

3:39:30Do we have any registered delegates, Madam Secretary Treasurer?

3:39:35Mr. Chair, I can confirm no registered delegates.

3:39:37Okay.

3:39:38And I'm going to ask if there are any in the gallery who would like to speak to this application.

3:39:45Seeing none.

3:39:47I'm going to go into committee and ask my colleagues for a motion.

3:39:53I move the motion for approval with condition.

3:40:02Okay.

3:40:03And do we have a seconder?

3:40:05Member Goodfellow, is there any discussion?

3:40:11Seeing none.

3:40:12Madam Secretary Treasurer, would you mind calling the vote?

3:40:16Thank you, Chair.

3:40:17Committee members, please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion,

3:40:20which is to approve the application with the applications with the recommended conditions.

3:40:25Chair Smith.

3:40:26In favor.

3:40:27Member Fitzpatrick.

3:40:29In favor.

3:40:30Member Goodfellow.

3:40:31In favor.

3:40:32Member Mambrenio.

3:40:33In favor.

3:40:34Member Meir.

3:40:35In favor.

3:40:36Member Ross.

3:40:37In favor.

3:40:38And Member Spears.

3:40:39In favor.

3:40:40That's carried, Mr. Chair.

3:40:41Thank you.

3:40:42Your application has been approved.

3:40:49Madam Secretary Treasurer, may we have the next applicant, please?

3:40:53The next file is B-51-25, consent to create one new residential lot with one retained residential

3:41:01lot at 17 Emsley Street.

3:41:03I'll note for those attending remotely, if you do wish to speak to this application,

3:41:07you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen.

3:41:11And when you call in staff, we'll give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely.

3:41:15I'll also note that staff do have a brief presentation for this file after the applicant's

3:41:20presentation.

3:41:22And as well, we did want to make note that there was two conditions that MetroLinks were

3:41:29recommending in their comments that they had provided to the committee.

3:41:35Those weren't initially included as conditions in the staff comments, and staff is recommending

3:41:39that those two conditions for an environmental easement and warning clause be included should

3:41:45the committee wish to approve these applications.

3:41:49Is the applicant present?

3:42:00Welcome back.

3:42:01Can you state your name for the record, please?

3:42:04Again, my name is Colin Van Der Wood from Van Hart and Surveying and representing the

3:42:08property owner.

3:42:09Thank you.

3:42:10And can you tell me if the sign was posted as of the Planning Act?

3:42:13It was.

3:42:14Okay.

3:42:15And similar to your other experiences here, you have 10 minutes to address the committee.

3:42:21Excellent.

3:42:22Thank you.

3:42:24Yes, so we are requesting one severance to split a 16.4 meter wide lot in half to allow

3:42:31a new semi-detached dwelling to replace the existing single detached dwelling.

3:42:37Interestingly, this is like, this is the same configuration as the semi-detached on

3:42:40the two properties behind.

3:42:43So if you see behind the new proposed severance line matches the property line behind for

3:42:50the properties fronting on Waterloo Avenue.

3:42:55Just as a note too, we also support the additional conditions from MetroLinks.

3:43:03Adding those in, we support that as well.

3:43:06This proposal complies with the low density RL1 zoning on the official plan.

3:43:14And again, staff have, planning staff have recommended approval with conditions.

3:43:20We believe this proposal fits in well with the neighborhood.

3:43:23There's some mixed zoning in the neighborhood, some RL4 and RH identity apartments are one

3:43:29street over on Bristol Street.

3:43:31So we think this is an excellent gentle intensification.

3:43:37The RL1 zoning recognizes semi-detached and single detached homes that they can coexist

3:43:48together.

3:43:50And that is part of the bylaw approved by council and is supported by the official plan

3:43:56and other planning policy.

3:44:01I also believe it's a great location for some more, for potential intensification.

3:44:05It's a 13 minute walk from where we are today.

3:44:07Eight minute walk down to the river.

3:44:11Bus routes are five minutes walk, two bus routes are five minute walk away.

3:44:15And there's bike routes on Waterloo and Yorkshire Street.

3:44:18So there's great alternative options for transportation from driving as well.

3:44:23We did see the comments.

3:44:25We did see one point about the comments is that there was three comments from the public.

3:44:32And one of those comments was actually for a different application that's being heard

3:44:34tonight.

3:44:35It was for application that's B52 for June Avenue.

3:44:41So there's actually two comments that were received.

3:44:43Just like to clarify that.

3:44:47Some of the concerns were about the narrow street and parking.

3:44:50And we fully are aware that we will not be parking on the street.

3:44:55Just like everybody else.

3:44:57City engineering staff haven't flagged any concerns with vehicle traffic or parking either.

3:45:08Also someone mentioned just servicing if there was enough servicing for this.

3:45:15Just like any other building permit, this is going to go through all the reports that

3:45:18you need.

3:45:19Stormwater management report, grading and drainage plan, servicing plan, just to make

3:45:23sure that this doesn't impact the other properties negatively.

3:45:28City engineers haven't flagged any issues with existing servicing on the street.

3:45:33And our civil engineers also done a preliminary review of the existing servicing plans and

3:45:38the Guelph master servicing plan and don't see any issues.

3:45:43So in conclusion, informed with zoning supported by planning or sorry by the city staff.

3:45:50I think it's great development in a great location.

3:45:54I'd be happy to answer any questions.

3:45:57Thank you.

3:45:58If I want to wait right there, my colleagues may have some questions regarding this committee

3:46:02members.

3:46:03Do you have any questions of this applicant?

3:46:05Member Spears.

3:46:06Through you, Mr. Chair, to the applicant.

3:46:11Given the comments, I want to ask you to be a little more specific about the parking

3:46:15issue.

3:46:16Okay.

3:46:17There's no parking on M's Lee.

3:46:18Yeah.

3:46:20It's clear you can't do it.

3:46:21And I suspect that the letter writer was right in saying that the streets on either end,

3:46:28Yorkshire, and I don't know the name of the other one, McGee, perhaps, just don't really

3:46:34have the, there's just not enough parking.

3:46:37Is there any thought to figuring out how to get another space or two in that property?

3:46:44Well, we are meeting the minimum requirement for what's required.

3:46:54I mean, generally, I think the zoning bylaw wants to ensure that there's enough parking,

3:46:59but not that the whole lot is pavement.

3:47:01So we're trying to strike a balance in that.

3:47:04And you know, the proposal proposes parking spaces that will be usable for the people

3:47:10and not intending to rely on off street parking.

3:47:15Because off street parking is just available to everyone.

3:47:21Like it's not a expected resource.

3:47:26Okay.

3:47:27Thank you.

3:47:31Any other questions for this applicant?

3:47:36Seeing none, I understand city staff have a brief presentation.

3:47:39Yes, Mr. Chair.

3:47:43Good evening, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

3:47:46The application before you today is for proposed severance at 17 M's Lee Street.

3:47:51The applicants proposing to sever the property to create one new residential lot with one

3:47:55retain lot, as the applicant mentioned.

3:47:58A new semi-detached dwelling is proposed to be constructed on the proposed severed and

3:48:03retained lands.

3:48:05Each dwelling will contain two additional dwelling units or ADUs for a total of six

3:48:10dwelling units on the subject lands.

3:48:13Now the zoning bylaw requires a minimum lot frontage of 7.5 meters and a minimum lot area

3:48:19of 230 square meters per semi-detached dwelling unit.

3:48:24And the proposed lots and semi-detached dwelling can form with these regulations.

3:48:29Additionally, as the applicant mentioned, two legal parking spaces are being provided,

3:48:35which meets the zoning bylaw requirement based on the proposed number of ADUs.

3:48:40With regard to infrastructure, the applicant will need to submit a functional servicing

3:48:45report and a servicing plan as there are servicing and infrastructure works within

3:48:49the right-of-way.

3:48:51And these requirements are included as part of engineering's conditions.

3:48:55And the impending of staff, the proposed dwellings and lots conform with the low density residential

3:49:00designation and will maintain the existing character of the neighborhood while allowing

3:49:05for dental intensification.

3:49:07If recommend approval of consent application B-51-25 subject to the recommended conditions.

3:49:17Thank you very much.

3:49:18Committee members, do we have any questions for city staff?

3:49:22Yes, Member Rump.

3:49:24Through you, Mr. Chair, to staff.

3:49:30Does the zoning bylaw, is it based or does it have the assumption that there's going

3:49:35to be some on-street parking or is it more generic or a blanket requirement that is for

3:49:47certain types of units, here's the required parking?

3:49:51Is there a context, I guess, for the zoning bylaw?

3:49:56From my understanding, the parking requirements in the zoning bylaw are more of a general

3:50:03purpose in terms of kind of the understanding that not every individual will own a vehicle.

3:50:10And there are other forms of transit available from this location.

3:50:16There is a bus route route along Waterloo Avenue and on Edinburgh Street, sorry, Edinburgh Road.

3:50:24So there are other modal options for prospective residents at this development.

3:50:32Yes, good.

3:50:33Just one follow-up, just so I'm clear.

3:50:36So a total of six residential units are being proposed and there are two parking spaces per lot, so that's four.

3:50:47Yes, that's correct.

3:50:47Four parking spaces are being proposed.

3:50:50Thank you.

3:50:53Any other questions of staff?

3:50:56Members, peers?

3:50:57Yeah, through you, Mr. Chair, to staff.

3:50:59I just want to make sure that what you just said is correct.

3:51:02My impression is that there is, well, you need one parking space per unit and there are three units in each building, each side.

3:51:13So there has to be six spaces.

3:51:15Am I gathering that there's two side by side and one in the garage?

3:51:18Through the chair, to members, peers, there was an amendment to the zoning bylaw passed in December of last year,

3:51:29which changed the parking requirements for ADUs, our additional dwelling units.

3:51:34So the first additional dwelling unit on each property no longer requires parking space.

3:51:39So for a property with a main dwelling unit and two ADUs, only two parking spaces is required as per the zoning requirements.

3:51:46Thank you for that update.

3:51:47Appreciate it.

3:51:50Any other questions?

3:51:51Member Fitzpatrick?

3:51:54Through you, Mr. Chairman.

3:51:55So if I've heard you correctly, then they've met all the requirements under the zoning and under the provincial guidelines for the creation of these lots.

3:52:06Yes, that's correct.

3:52:08Thank you.

3:52:11Any other questions of staff?

3:52:14I'm going to ask one that I ask often in these circumstances.

3:52:18If we were not here for a consent agenda, by right, the owner could build a foreplex.

3:52:27Am I understanding correctly?

3:52:31To the chair, that's correct.

3:52:33They would be permitted to construct a foreplex.

3:52:38Subject to building code requirements, et cetera, but in general, they would be allowed to build a foreplex as of right.

3:52:48Yes, that's correct.

3:52:53Okay, thank you.

3:52:54Okay, we've heard from staff and the proponent. I'm going to ask the secretary treasurer if we have anyone registered as a delegate.

3:53:06Mr. Chair, yes, we do. We have one delegate that's registered.

3:53:11Bruno, please come forward.

3:53:24Good evening and thank you for your patience. Can you state your name for the record, please?

3:53:30I can.

3:53:30Bruno is my first name.

3:53:32And you have 10 minutes to address the committee and you can make as much use of that time as you'd like.

3:53:40Great. Thank you.

3:53:41And thank you for the opportunity.

3:53:44I haven't done this before.

3:53:45I didn't realise it was such a big thing and I'm looking at myself on a big screen.

3:53:49And I wish to thank the gentleman from Van Harten.

3:53:53I did indeed walk from Emcee Street. It is a lovely location to here.

3:53:58But I'd say I live beside, if you have, the map that came out to everybody, just the footprint.

3:54:08I live in 15 Emcee Street, so I flank, my family flank.

3:54:13This is our home. We flank this proposed development.

3:54:16So that's where I'm situated.

3:54:19But I do take exception to a couple of things that were said there about the street and the...

3:54:27I'm thankful that this isn't an automated process where boxes can be ticked and it complies

3:54:32in terms of the reality of living on this street in terms of how this would really radically alter

3:54:37Emcee Street.

3:54:39Councillor Spears seems to have a sense of Emcee Street in terms of the...

3:54:42You know, we select it as a quiet side street to raise a family.

3:54:48Well aware that there's a housing crisis and that there's pressure to build.

3:54:53So I'll get to the chase. In terms of parking, the reality is dire.

3:54:58For absolutely justified reasons, parking was removed from the street seven or eight years ago.

3:55:02I was present on the street when emergency vehicles couldn't enter the street to give assistance to

3:55:07the house opposite us.

3:55:08And so they removed parking from one side of the street.

3:55:11I'm not a tall person. It takes me eight normal steps to get across Emcee Street from 15 Emcee

3:55:18Street to across to where this development is. The corner of this development is going to occur.

3:55:23So it is a narrow street and there's a reason because there's no parking.

3:55:26It's on... I'm trying to speak quickly the 10 minutes. Yorkshire and McGee, very well remembered,

3:55:31is like coming down towards the river. So that's what gets utterly crowded.

3:55:36So it's almost a danger really to come out onto Emcee Street because Yorkshire and McGee

3:55:41are so packed at different stages of the year, of the evening, in the morning.

3:55:46So people kind of inch off Emcee Street and McGee Street and could easily get hit

3:55:50as people kind of come down off Waterloo, kind of gain speed towards the bottom of Bristol.

3:55:54So there are real logistical safety issues. It's the pathway up for the John McRae kids.

3:56:00They come up and go down there and I hope it never happens.

3:56:04But I suspect the children coming up and down to school from John McRae,

3:56:07crossing at Emcee where it's so crowded now and the proposal is to introduce even more cars

3:56:13onto the street in any capacity and where they're going to park.

3:56:16Six residents, are people really not going to have cars?

3:56:19There are so many in that residence going to have cars. I would love to know the developer.

3:56:25What's the general headcount for six residents?

3:56:28New residents on a street that has really 13 and a half residence addresses.

3:56:33It's not a gentle, it's not a moderate, it's not a mild.

3:56:37I didn't realise documents were put up. I didn't realise what this meeting was to be frank.

3:56:42So when I was sitting looking at the agenda at the beginning,

3:56:44that was the first time I realised that the committee had made a tentative agreement,

3:56:50a decision already. But the point is in terms of the infrastructure parking is a serious issue.

3:56:57You can't park because of snow plowing on Yorkshire and McGee at night time in the winter.

3:57:01All of those parking space is going to go to any which way for the people on McGee in Yorkshire.

3:57:06I don't have a Canadian driving licence, my husband does. I'm the one who keeps an eye out

3:57:11for kids and for trying to, as we edge out onto Yorkshire from the crowded generally trucks,

3:57:16parked on Yorkshire, coming off Emcee any which way.

3:57:19So that is a, I expected some stage there will be unfortunately some accident and tragedy at

3:57:25that junction even prior to more development. In relation to, so I'm well aware of not having

3:57:32Canadian driving licence yet, the bus system. Yes, how lovely it is to be able to walk down to

3:57:37Central. People will not do that if this is going to be a rental turnover, student development in

3:57:43any capacity to triplexes. I am an absolute supporter. I'll say the university, it is my employer.

3:57:51I slept down to Gordon to get the 99 up. I know the bus routes very well. Students don't,

3:57:58they generally don't. They're not going to give an hour and a half to get up to the university

3:58:01from Emcee Street to go down to Central to transfer and to go up. Certainly not at five degrees or

3:58:06minus five degrees. So I have an issue with the infrastructure in a matter of the snow, the plowing,

3:58:11where a small side street, you don't get plowed that often. With that freaked, but it's not going to

3:58:16happen more often with the snow plowing. There's so many issues, the bins, the snow plows, the small

3:58:21streets. That's only, so infrastructure is a big point. But if people, and I hope you do have the,

3:58:27if you do have it, could you please look at this kind of blank plan that of the shapes of the streets,

3:58:32my equal concern and on this community's concern in 151 Bristol Street, which has got a Bristol

3:58:39Street address, but it very much impacts Emcee, which again is that eight to nine feet, literally

3:58:44my feet across to it. We, for years as a community, it was one bungalow. If you're looking at this big

3:58:52plot on 151 Bristol Street, it was supposed to be five townhouses onto Emcee and the whole community

3:59:00got together and the two councillors, Karen and Downer came and it was great and councillor Rodrigo

3:59:05Gullard, it wasn't even an award came and it was rejected and the planner was told to go back,

3:59:09you know, butchering up Emcee and Bristol. So the five townhouses fronting onto Emcee was supposed

3:59:15to become, to our knowledge and the community's knowledge, four single family semi-detached

3:59:20from one bungalow. So we're not against development. This one bungalow, 151 Bristol,

3:59:26has, it was supposed to be in our, to our knowledge, four semi-detached single family houses.

3:59:34And in the last number of months, what has gone up in 151, which backs onto Emcee Street, seems to

3:59:38be a 52 bed development of triplexes. Again, to the community's knowledge, 151 Bristol was to be sat

3:59:47facing Bristol on Bristol level. And in the last couple of, I don't know, five months, six months,

3:59:51I'm losing time, the back of Emcee Street has been raised. The back third of 151 Bristol has been

3:59:57raised up. Trees have disappeared. So it's now quite an open development. The community have no idea

4:00:05what's going on in 151 Bristol, which is opposite my house. This development and the person who

4:00:11purchased the property company, who buys, buys property from people, you know, for cash, who

4:00:18bought this said to me directly that the developer opposite has already offered to purchase this

4:00:24plot from them. So the community's very, as, as the councillor's spirit, we're slightly uncertain

4:00:31what's going on this, really what's going on this. I thought this was just a severance. I don't know.

4:00:36When I walked in here, I didn't know, are people agreeing to actually six residents now on, on,

4:00:43was one bungalow with three people, a family in it, and it will revocably change the, you know,

4:00:49it's not gentle, it's not gentle intensification in the small side street. It is, you know,

4:00:54of 13 give or take houses on Emcee, you're putting six new residents on it. There is no parking.

4:01:00You know, I could keep, I could keep going. The community really got together and for years

4:01:05fought the five townhouses on Emcee and was a great committee. And, and the mayor then said to the

4:01:10developer, you need to go back to the drawing board and from the development onto Bristol.

4:01:14And what has appeared in the last five to six months has totally surprised our community.

4:01:18And we never got, we never got any correspondence of an update of plans in that development.

4:01:24But from word on the street, from talking to the builders, not the owners, but the people who

4:01:28are actually physically building 151 Bristol, it seems to be a 52 bed split across six,

4:01:35targeted at students from the word on the street. And they are, I don't know where they're going

4:01:40to park. But if, if you have the moment to drive home via Emcee Street tonight, it has raised up.

4:01:46That was a 1015 drop, fronting, foliage has gone, the back third of the lot is raised up onto Emcee

4:01:52Street. So I don't know what I'm arguing here in the sense of the field, the tenor of this side

4:01:57street, 151 Bristol should really be looked at before a decision is made about this plot.

4:02:03If the same developer has indeed either purchased it or has actually, somebody said, even three

4:02:08neighbours were here, they had to go, they didn't realise where we were in the ordering, said that

4:02:12the letter from Van Harten, or the, the owner number is the owner of the developer across the

4:02:19road. So we don't really know what's going on with this plot. But parking is a serious issue,

4:02:23infrastructure is a serious issue. You're suddenly putting six residents on a street that

4:02:27only has 13. You know, that's not gentle modification from the language here. I wish I'd read the

4:02:32documents before I didn't realise they were posted. That's my ignorance. I didn't realise

4:02:36all that stuff was up there before I, before I came to the meeting today. I thought this was,

4:02:40you know, it was fact finding, get a feel from the locality. I know some neighbours wrote in,

4:02:44some neighbours away on holiday. They don't even know that this is happening. It happened so quickly.

4:02:48We only got this letter early last week. The notes went up in the garden, but I didn't get the

4:02:55actual letter. You know, so there will be people surprised coming off holiday that this has gone

4:03:02on. But parking is a serious issue. It will be problematic. There are real reasons why there's

4:03:07no parking. There's no parking in the facility. Public transport is great on paper. I use it.

4:03:12It's not great in reality in terms of what's, what I'm assuming, the 50, question mark 52 bed

4:03:19opposite and the question mark 6 residence. So roughly 20 to 30 more people, you know,

4:03:25oh, just let them take the bus. Let them walk 15 minutes down the river. That's pie in the sky

4:03:28for the reality of our community. And I'm delighted that there are human people. This isn't a tick

4:03:33box. You know, here's your search and go build for those reasons. So it may comply, but it certainly

4:03:39will alter. It'll alter our area. Thank you very much for your presentation. If you want to

4:03:46lay right there, my colleagues may have some questions for you. Committee members,

4:03:51do we have any questions of this? Yes, member Goodfellow. Yes, through the chair, but I think

4:03:56this question is for city staff. The delegate mentioned the development of 151 Bristol. I also

4:04:04had a question about that and where the entrance and exit for that development was going to be.

4:04:10Like, is the driveway for that development on Bristol or is it on Emsley? I did read somewhere

4:04:16that maybe the access to Emsley was to support construction, but I would appreciate city staff

4:04:22comments on what the intent is long term. Through the chair to member Goodfellow, my understanding

4:04:29is the entrances for those semi-detached dwellings on 151 Bristol will front onto Bristol Street.

4:04:37Great. Thank you. So that means then that there will be no traffic coming from Bristol

4:04:45from that development, fronting onto Bristol onto Emsley. Like that access that's there currently

4:04:51will be closed off or otherwise kind of buttoned up so that the traffic will have to go forward to

4:04:59Bristol. Through the chair, I would think so. Yes, looking at the approved building permit drawings

4:05:04right now and there is no access off of Emsley on those approved drawings.

4:05:10Great. Thank you. Appreciate that.

4:05:14Any other questions, committee members? I have one for staff and the delegate mentioned snow

4:05:20removal. I know that's an issue in the older part of the city, but is there any concern that

4:05:31this development might add unduly to snow removal on Emsley? Through you, Mr. Chair, there are maximum

4:05:42driveway widths that are permitted on newly created lots and this proposal conforms with those maximum

4:05:48widths. So, you know, the intent is that the snow from those driveways would then be pushed to the

4:05:53side and remain on the property in which it originated. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Thank you very

4:06:03much for your presentation. Is there anyone else who's been registered, Madam Secretary Treasurer?

4:06:11Mr. Chair, I can confirm no other registered delegates, but there may be some in the audience.

4:06:18Are there any members of the gallery who would like to speak to this application? Yes, please come

4:06:25forward. Can you state your name for the record? Cheryl Jackson. All I wanted to say is Emsley Street

4:06:47is a very, very different street and I would have everybody come and look at the street to see exactly

4:06:53what the people on the street are talking about. Unfortunately, a lot of my neighbors away, so

4:06:58they couldn't be here today. I know everything they're doing is within the law and within regulations,

4:07:04but I think we know also sometimes exceptions have to be made to the rule. So, we only have 13

4:07:10houses on Emsley Street by putting six more units in. You're actually tripling it. So, I just wanted

4:07:17to let you know that. Okay. Thank you. Just wait a second. We may have some questions. Committee

4:07:23members, do we have any questions of this delegate? I just may add one comment that I and I assume all

4:07:31of our delegate, our members of the Committee of Adjustment, do make greatest effort to take a

4:07:38look at every property that comes before us. And I do that pretty religiously and I know

4:07:45my colleagues do as well. So, I just wanted to ensure you that we do take very seriously our

4:07:52responsibility and review the context of every location. Thank you. Are there any members of the

4:08:01gallery who would like to speak to this application? I don't see any and I will ask the applicant

4:08:11to approach the podium and answer any of the issues that have been raised by the delegates.

4:08:16Thank you, Mr. Chair. First, I think just address the question about 151 Bristol. There will be no

4:08:35entrances onto Emsley. The city requested a reserve. So, technically the city owns a foot of land

4:08:43and so along Emsley where that property is. So, they'll be putting up a privacy fence and they're

4:08:51planning on doing some sort of cedar row or plantings of some type there.

4:08:56In regards to the other comments, we appreciate the comments about parking and

4:09:09the developers aware of concerns like this. They have built this with the intent to have

4:09:22enough parking to serve them and I hear the comments about the parking on the other streets. I also

4:09:29visited it. I wonder if the city could consider a speed bump if cars are going too fast when you're

4:09:37exiting Emsley Street. But I don't have too much else to add. I believe this is a good proposal

4:09:48and a good location and there are some growing pains but I think it's a great proposal.

4:09:55Committee members, do we have any other questions or comments for this? I have one.

4:10:02I assume at least the ADRU's would be rentals. Is this planned as a rental

4:10:11situation or is this purchasers? I believe it's rental as well. Yeah.

4:10:21Okay. Thank you. I would assume that with an ADRU that when the potential renter was looking

4:10:32to rent, they would be made aware that there is no parking. I think that is as read. Yeah.

4:10:41Yeah. I think that's very normal. When I moved into my place, I was told there's one parking spot.

4:10:47If that didn't suit us, we wouldn't have moved there. Okay. Thank you.

4:10:54Yes. Number three. Through you, Mr. Chairman and to staff. So the comment from the applicant

4:11:02about traffic calming, is that something that can be addressed within the application? Through the

4:11:14chair to member Patrick, typically that's typically traffic calming wouldn't be

4:11:22considered a mechanism through these types of applications. Thank you. Any other questions?

4:11:35Seeing none. Committee members, what is your wish? Do I have a motion that we can consider?

4:11:45Members of the speaker, I move that we accept this application as proposed with the conditions

4:11:51recommended by city staff. And we have a seconder. Member Ross, is there any debate on this?

4:12:03Seeing none. I just want to add my comment that

4:12:11in viewing this location, the context is real important. And I struggled with whether or not

4:12:20be supporting it or not based on the context. But I believe that since parking seems to be the

4:12:28biggest issue and an ADRU, when someone rents that, they're going to be told there's no parking.

4:12:40And I suspect that most of the renters would be either community college or university students.

4:12:47So with that in mind, I will be supporting the motion. Is there any other comment or debate on the

4:12:54issue? Yes, Member Meir. I would take a different way. Our assumption that they will not have cars

4:13:04or not, they will go by bus is a wrong assumption. We should take everyone, the worst case scenario

4:13:10where everyone will have a car. And that is the business on which we should be deciding.

4:13:16Because it's a very, already the roads and the narrow road of the city size. I don't know what

4:13:23staff can tell you. What is the width of this street? Because, and if in that street there are

4:13:31car parked, how the traffic will move? Because I think there has to be some empathy. Because in

4:13:41old buildings, we can accept that there were no parking. But in new times, when we are not

4:13:48building anything, these things, the critical path of any housing is the parking. Everybody has a

4:13:56convince and not factoring that, I think will not be a right direction to approve in that way. So

4:14:10unless staff can put more light to it on the width, on parking, on the winter, you can't park,

4:14:16then where they will park? Assuming that all they have the park. So in winter, you're not allowed

4:14:22to park on the street. So I don't know where those cars will go. So there is a question raised

4:14:28very valid that this should be addressed in some way. I'm not sure how, but I leave it to the

4:14:37staff to answer beyond the width and the parking in the winter, etc. I'll not speak for staff,

4:14:44but to speak to the motion before us. This does comply with the City's new zoning bylaw.

4:14:56And I'm sure that City Council has considered a number of these situations when they decided that

4:15:05in this kind of situation that it would be skeptical to have two parking units

4:15:13or a three, a possible three unit development. So I hope that answers your question. Okay,

4:15:25any more debate? Seeing none, Madam Secretary Treasurer, may we call the vote please?

4:15:31Thank you, Chair. Committee members, please indicate your vote by responding in favor or

4:15:35opposed to the motion, which is to approve the application with the recommended conditions.

4:15:43Chair Smith? In favor. Member Fitzpatrick? In favor. Member Goodfellow? In favor.

4:15:51Member Mbrenno? In favor. Member Meir? In favor. Member Ross? In favor. And Member Spears? In favor.

4:15:59It's carried, Mr. Chair. Your application has been approved. Madam Secretary Treasurer,

4:16:13may we have the next application, please? The next application is file B-52-25, consent to create one

4:16:21new residential lot with one retained residential lot at 4 June Avenue. I'll note for those attending

4:16:27remotely, if you wish to speak to this application, you can call the number displayed on the screen.

4:16:31That number is 519-822-1260, extension 2524. And when you call in, staff will give you instructions

4:16:38on how you can delegate remotely. I'll also note for the committee members as well as those

4:16:43attending that there will be a brief staff presentation after the applicant provides their

4:16:48presentation and a few administrative items to note. There was additional comments provided by

4:16:56Laura McClure and those comments have been provided and circulated to the committee members of staff.

4:17:02And finally, we staff did want to make note that the public notice did indicate that each of the

4:17:07proposed semi-detached dwelling units is proposed to have one internal additional dwelling unit

4:17:12or ADU. However, it's since been confirmed with the applicant that each of the proposed semi-detached

4:17:18dwelling units is proposed to have two internal ADUs for a total of six residential units between

4:17:23the severed and retained parcels. And according to the 2023 Zoning By-law, a semi-detached

4:17:29dwelling unit is permitted to have a maximum of two internal ADUs. So just wanted to note

4:17:35that correction from the public notice. Thank you. As the applicant is online,

4:17:42can you state your name for the record, please? Good evening, John Crummer. I am the agent

4:17:49representing the owner. Thank you. And can you tell me if the sign was posted as per the Planning

4:17:56Act? It was. And have you read staff comment and are you in agreement? Yeah, we have read it and we

4:18:04are in agreement. Okay, with that you have 10 minutes that you can address the committee.

4:18:11Perfect. Thank you for having me. Our application is similar to the one before us. We are proposing

4:18:19a new semi-detached dwelling and the end goal is three units per side. I know there was some

4:18:26confusion on how many units there are. It wasn't our intent to hide how many units. It's just in

4:18:33terms of the building permit application. It just makes it a little smoother in terms of navigating

4:18:37their regulations. But our end goal is to have three units per side, which follows the Zoning

4:18:44By-law and Official Plan. This application is very common. I've done these in Kitchener, London,

4:18:55Stratford. The government is pushing for homes and housing affordability, which everyone knows

4:19:03about. And land is tough to come by. So the only way you're going to meet these requirements or

4:19:11targets is infill builds like this. So this is what we are doing. We have a design that we

4:19:19met the Official Plan and the Zoning By-law. We have no variances. So we're not stretching the

4:19:24boundary. This is the city's intent. It's my understanding because we comply. And there was

4:19:33some comments about parking. We looked into additional parking, but the city does have

4:19:41requirements on landscaping. They do not want the whole front yard to be a driveway. So we met the

4:19:49minimum requirements of parking spots. There was also some comments about the building heights and

4:19:56setbacks. And we comply with all those. There was comments about waste storage and removal. And

4:20:04the owner currently has a project management company that handles this. So any complaints get

4:20:11funneled through them and get handled accordingly in a professional manner. So we feel we check all

4:20:18the boxes and this is kind of the direction that the government is going. So I'll leave it with that.

4:20:26Any questions? I'm here. Thank you. If you want to wait right there online,

4:20:33my colleagues may have some questions for you. Committee members, do we have any questions?

4:20:38Member Fitzpatrick. Through you, Mr. Chairman. So your comment at the beginning

4:20:44where you said you didn't hide the number of units, but it was not like the other applications

4:20:50where they were up front about, they wanted the two additional ADUs there. So I'm curious to understand

4:20:58why you chose to present it that way. So in terms of building code requirements, there's

4:21:08different requirements, whether it's two units or three units per application. So

4:21:16similar to projects I've done in Kitchener, we proposed two units. So that was why the original

4:21:23application showed two units per side. And then we realized the drawings didn't update and reflect

4:21:30that. So again, it wasn't to hide or do anything. Our intentions have always been clear that we

4:21:37want three units per side, but we just accidentally mixed building and planning

4:21:45together and kind of confused it a bit. But at the end of the day, the severance, to my understanding,

4:21:51is not dictated by the number of units as long as our end goal complies with the zoning requirements.

4:21:57For number of units, my understanding, we're good.

4:22:07Any other questions for the applicant? Member Spears.

4:22:11Through you, Mr. Chairman of the applicant, I'm curious about the basement. And I have to say,

4:22:17I was, I'm not clear about the way all the stairways work. Can you just help me understand?

4:22:24I have a concern that the basement will end up being an apartment. It has a wet bar.

4:22:31That looks like a kitchen to me. It's certainly big enough. It's the biggest, it's the biggest

4:22:36space in the entire house. What precludes the basement then for not becoming a fourth and

4:22:42illegal unit? Thank you for the question. So when you build these buildings, as you know,

4:22:52in the basement, when you pour that slab, it is easier to have plumbing roughen,

4:22:56you know, before you pour the slab. Once you pour the slab, it is a lot difficult to

4:23:02change things down the road. So because the zoning bylaw allows a building this size,

4:23:08we put roughens in the basement and allowed the main floor unit, you know, a larger unit.

4:23:15You never know down the road rules might change, but the owner and myself are aware that we are

4:23:21not allowed to have another unit down there. So it really is not the intention. It's not really on

4:23:27our radar. Rules would have to change for that to happen. And like I'm a building inspector myself,

4:23:33I know it happens, but that wasn't our intention with this. It's just purely extra storage space,

4:23:41which, you know, falls under the zoning bylaw that we're allowed to do. So that was really the

4:23:46intention. Thank you very much. Thank you. Any other questions for the applicant?

4:23:56Seeing none, I do have a couple and I want to thank Member Spears because

4:24:01he brought out one of them. But the drawings seem very confusing to me, just a little unconventional.

4:24:08And if there are four entrances that, especially with an area way, I mean, we're not,

4:24:20we're not evaluating the architecture. But when I see a plan that has four entrances in an area

4:24:26way into the basement, that says to me, as Member Spears has pointed out, that this is planned to

4:24:31be a foreplex on each side. Am I missing something? In terms of the exits, no.

4:24:42But we're not permitted to have four plex. So if the owner... Excuse me, but why have an entrance

4:24:50from the outside into the basement? It was purely to provide flexibility down the road.

4:24:57Like rules could change down the road, as in Toronto, they're allowing five units or potentially

4:25:02allowing five units. So this is just potential. It's easier to put stairs in now than later.

4:25:08It's, you know, once this building goes up, we do meet the setbacks, but it will be tight. So

4:25:13it's purely because now is the time to do it versus later. If the rules don't change, then we have,

4:25:19you know, extra exits for the basement. So we're not hiding anything. We're well aware of the rules.

4:25:26I know it might look funny on your end, but how it works, if they decide to put a unit down there,

4:25:32the building department, fire department, they get sent out, orders and fines happen. So

4:25:37we are well aware that we can't have another unit down there. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions

4:25:45for the applicant? We'll pause here at this point. Please stand by. You may have some

4:25:53comments from the public or other discussions that you'd like to answer. So if you'd like to stand by,

4:26:01I understand that City staff has a presentation that they'd like to make. Yes, thank you. Through

4:26:12you, Mr. Chair and to the committee. It's just really confirming remarks on the additional

4:26:16dwelling units, many of which are similar points that were already raised. But per the Zoning By-law

4:26:22Amendment Pass by City Council December 2024, assuming you meet all other zoning provisions,

4:26:28you are permitted a maximum of two ADUs per semi-detached dwelling unit. Therefore, the six

4:26:33unit proposed is in line with the maximum number of units. Now the intent of the Zoning By-law

4:26:40regulations are to in part limit impacts to neighboring lands, ensure that proposed uses

4:26:45will function properly on the lot and to limit over development. Now in this case, no variances

4:26:52from the Zoning By-law regulations are requested. As currently presented, the development conforms

4:26:58to the requirements of the RL1 zone. So this includes but is not limited to having met the

4:27:03requirements for a permitted maximum height of three stories. They meet the minimum front,

4:27:08rear and side yard setbacks, minimum number of parking spaces for the units, add two spaces for

4:27:13each lot, as well as the minimum lot area and frontages. So, you know, this is a severance

4:27:19application and just looking at the severance criteria, staff are recommending an approval

4:27:25based on that along with a number of conditions just to address potential concerns

4:27:30and staff are available for any fallen questions. Thank you.

4:27:34Thank you. Committee members, do we have any questions for city staff? Yes, member Goodfell.

4:27:42Yes, through the chair to city staff. I did note that there was no tree preservation plan

4:27:50recommended for this application. I do see that there are a few trees on the site. So I was curious

4:27:59to understand why, you know, some of the previous applications had included in this one that did not.

4:28:10Through you, chair, to member Goodfell. There are conditions requiring a tree

4:28:16and a tree preservation plan. That's the only condition we have included right now from the

4:28:20planning side. My apologies. I missed it. Okay. I'll go and take another look just to confirm,

4:28:28but thank you for that. Asked and answered. Any other questions of staff? Yes, member member.

4:28:40Through the chair to staff, a similar question. Why was this application

4:28:46not evaluated against the objectives for the residential designations and as well as

4:28:55not evaluated against the 11 criteria for intensification?

4:29:04Through you, chair, to member, member, so those 11 or 10 intensification criteria are more preserved for

4:29:15larger in scale development proposals. So, you know, this is kind of on the smaller side of where we see

4:29:21a single lot being divided into two. If it was to say like one in the past where we had

4:29:28two lots being divided into like four, somebody touched lots, then we would definitely go through

4:29:32the criteria. But given the scale of what's being proposed, we wouldn't go through the full

4:29:38intensification criteria for this. Thank you. Any other questions of staff? Member Ross.

4:29:47Through you, Mr. Chair, to staff. I'm wondering if staff have any

4:29:54comment on the issue raised by member Spears regarding the basement attributes.

4:30:07Through you, chair, to member Ross, I'd just to clarify the concern was

4:30:13that it could have been converted down the line to a fourth unit. Was that the concern?

4:30:20Okay, one second. Right, so the staff comments are to review what's there right now. We're not

4:30:42going to provide comments on what a scenario is down the line. If there was a fourth unit,

4:30:52would you want to comment on that? Through the chair, at building permit stage, we do often see

4:31:01rough ends being done in anticipation of what not what we have planned, but any possibility for

4:31:11more units to be permitted one day on a property. It's not something as long as they don't use it,

4:31:20develop it as a unit. And we do have bylaw staff who proactively do

4:31:29look for instances where there have been conversions done without permits. But at

4:31:36the building permit stage, there's nothing. They're not creating a dwelling unit, but there's

4:31:41nothing to prevent a rough end to be completed for bathrooms or and also like an entrance to a

4:31:49basement is also permitted as well. So in terms of the level of detail that an applicant brings

4:32:02to the committee, in this instance, there are floor plans accompanying their application.

4:32:09In the previous application, we dealt with there were no floor plans. So do you

4:32:18you do you not require floor plans as part of the application process? Or is that

4:32:26is it just depend on on what the application the applicant brings when they come to the

4:32:31committee of adjustment and any floor plans are part of another process? Yeah, through the chair

4:32:37to member Ross. Floor plans are not required for a severance application and even a zoning bylaw

4:32:49application. And something that I have run into when I follow up with residents after the fact is

4:32:57that it doesn't look like how it was proposed at committee. And sometimes when they do detailed

4:33:06design, they run into some issues, height has to be changed. But as long as the building permit

4:33:14stage, if it meets the required setbacks, height, all the requirements of the zoning bylaw for that

4:33:24property, then they can build it within those parameters. And often the finished product

4:33:32doesn't look exactly like what we see at committee or council. Any other questions?

4:33:45I do have a couple of questions for staff. I was under the impression and maybe I'm out to

4:33:52launch on this, but I was under the impression with a in a severance situation like this where

4:34:00the applicant will be going for a semi-detached that the ADRU would have to be in a separate

4:34:11location. Am I off mark when I, in my understanding of that or can the three units or the main unit

4:34:21and the two ADRUs be in the same building? To the chair. Yes, the main plus the two units in a semi

4:34:33can be with all in the semi building. There doesn't need to be a detached one. You can have

4:34:42the main with an ADU in the main building plus one detached. That is an option, but they could do

4:34:49either or. Okay, so it's just a question that most of what we see coming to us is, if you will,

4:35:00on one side of each semi two units and an additional ADRU in the back. And so I guess the answer to my

4:35:10own question is that I am off the mark. Thank you for that clarification. The other question I have

4:35:19is in terms of height. I understand by right a building, a residential building can be four

4:35:27stories. Is that, pardon me, three stories. Is that correct? Yes, to the chair. That is correct.

4:35:33And is there any qualification of whether or not that can be like a pitched roof or a flat roof?

4:35:42In this case, it's usually we don't see a flat roof as a proposal. Usually that a

4:35:50proponent is making something that wants to fit into the neighborhood rather than appear as an

4:35:56apartment building, but there's nothing to prevent a flat roof in a three-story configuration. Am I

4:36:03correct? To the chair. Yes, that is correct. Okay. Thanks very much. That's my questions. Any other

4:36:10questions for staff? Seeing none. Madam Secretary Treasurer, do we have any registered delegates?

4:36:21Mr. Chair, we do. The first is Leanne Curry. Good evening. Can you state your name for the record,

4:36:44please? My name is Leanne Curry. Thank you for your patience this evening. And you have 10 minutes

4:36:51to address the committee. Well, I'd like to thank the committee because you addressed a lot of

4:36:56questions that I have noted to address tonight. So my name is Leanne Curry. I am an owner of

4:37:046th June Avenue, which abuts 4th June Avenue, the property subject to this application,

4:37:10which I understand is to sever this lot into two, demolish what exists, and construct a semi-detached

4:37:17dwelling. Beyond this, I am unclear as what is being proposed. The application initially said,

4:37:26two units, the plans attached showed eight units. Then we were told it was three units,

4:37:32and we really don't know what exactly is going on. So that's the reason I've been requesting

4:37:38deferrals. I do understand the application is for severance, but it's also my understanding,

4:37:46and I'd like somebody to correct me if I'm mistaken. If the applicant does not make any future

4:37:52applications for a minor variance, for example, public notice is not required to be circulated.

4:38:00So this is our only opportunity to provide any input. So I hope you can appreciate that without

4:38:10us really knowing what is going in there, it's hard for us to provide comment. We don't know the

4:38:17square footage of the proposed units. We don't know for sure how many they are. I have to say that

4:38:26a three-story building with a flat roof is completely out of scale with this neighborhood,

4:38:34which is primarily 1000 square foot bungalows built in the 1950s and 60s. It's not compatible.

4:38:44It infringes on neighboring privacy. I mentioned there's two trees in the backyard that provide

4:38:51both privacy and shade, and we do not know what the plan is for those trees. The original

4:38:59submission itself to me looks like it's a stacked townhouse block, or a small apartment building

4:39:08rather than a semi-detached dwelling sort of designed to be cohesive and fit in with the

4:39:13existing neighborhood. The owner of that property now has maximized his rental potential, and I

4:39:23think he's looking at this proposition to maximize whatever he can get. I'll be honest and say I

4:39:32am not convinced that there will be only six units. I am fully convinced that there will be

4:39:38eight units. It has been said that units in the basement will be renting for a thousand dollars

4:39:45a month each. Parking, as in previous applications, parking is a big issue. Frequently our street is

4:39:57lined with cars on both sides as it is now. It's home to our beloved June Avenue public school.

4:40:04This creates even more parking and safety issues just due to the volume of cars and school bus

4:40:10traffic during drop-off and pickup times. Garbage waste management at this property has always been

4:40:17an issue, and I think it will continue to be an issue if there is six units, as they say there

4:40:24will be, and each unit has two garbage carts to put out. That's 12 garbage carts. Where do they even go

4:40:32to be picked up? And secondly, where is there even room for them to be stored?

4:40:40Density is another big issue. We do not know what is being proposed for these units. Are they one

4:40:47bedroom, two bedroom, three bedroom units? There could potentially be quite a few people

4:40:53if there were six three-bedroom units in occupying this property.

4:41:00And lastly, I'd just like to say I am sympathetic to the pressure that the province is putting on the

4:41:06city to provide much needed affordable housing units, hence the passing of the gentle zoning bylaw.

4:41:13However, I fail to see how developers, by maxing out the yield to their advantage under this

4:41:21zoning bylaw, is actually fulfilling this need. Case in point, a developer of a property in the

4:41:28south end was permitted to construct two semi-detached units with four separate dwelling units

4:41:36in the back rear yards. These units are now becoming available for rent September 1st,

4:41:43three bedrooms in 754 square feet and the rental asking is $2,997 a month. In my view,

4:41:53that is not affordable and not in the spirit and intent of the city when they created or passed

4:42:01the gentle zoning bylaw. I do thank you for your time and I request a deferral so that we can have

4:42:10proper clarification as to what is being proposed there and I'm sure we can come to a compromise

4:42:18where everybody is happy. Thank you. Thank you. If you want to wait right there, my colleagues may

4:42:24have some questions for you committee members. Do we have any questions for this delegate? I don't

4:42:31see any but I'm sure that some of your questions may be answered by the respond by the applicant

4:42:40at the end of this. Thank you again very much for your time. Do we have any other registered

4:42:45delegates, Madam Secretary Treasurer? Mr. Chair, we do. The next is Laura McClure.

4:42:57Hi, I'm Laura McClure and I live on June Avenue as well and thank you for taking the time to listen

4:43:04to me. I don't- I'm just going to interrupt briefly and you have 10 minutes. You've already addressed

4:43:11the question of who you are so please take my case of your 10 minutes. Okay, great. Thank you.

4:43:16I won't take up much of your time. Leanne has done a wonderful job in expressing

4:43:23the concerns that we have on the street and I don't really have much to add to that. What I will say is

4:43:31through my research in trying to put something together to come and talk to you folks tonight,

4:43:35I did a dive into what a gentle density approach is and how that would be applied in our city

4:43:43because I trust the city that when they say they're going to do something they do it.

4:43:48I'm disappointed and I may be wrong to hear the applicant statements which I don't think are

4:43:58incorrect but there is significant pressure on communities to build housing and I support that.

4:44:07What I have an issue with is that it doesn't seem- the rush to build doesn't seem to be in

4:44:14compliance with the principles that are presented in terms of a gentle density approach. So to build

4:44:23a semi-detached with six units and in my opinion it will be four or eight units. That basement will

4:44:31be used. If not now it will be used as soon as possible. I don't think that that's in keeping

4:44:40with the streetscape in any capacity. I think that developers are using this to

4:44:50side-set that bylaws that are put in place to prevent overbuilding which is what I trust would

4:44:59happen but I don't see that happening. If this unit goes in we have concerns about parking now

4:45:04with six units going in. Leanne talked about it being- having June Avenue school on the streets.

4:45:13In the morning because there's so many cars parked and parents are picking up and dropping off,

4:45:19they're pulling in and trying to park and get their kids to school. School buses are coming up.

4:45:24The congestion is significant at those times picking up and dropping off. If it is not unreasonable

4:45:31to think that a dwelling is going to need more than four parking spaces for six units, I think

4:45:41it's unrealistic to think that that's going to be sufficient. Particularly if there's going to be

4:45:47another unit in the basement at some point, what happens then with the parking? Right? What are

4:45:54the requirements then and how is that going to be implemented? I think that there's a whole host

4:46:00of problems with this unit. Particularly we talked about garbage and I was thinking before I came

4:46:07here if we have the 12 bins on the boulevard for pickup they have to be one meter apart

4:46:12to ensure collection but what happens with the cars that are parked on the street because that's

4:46:17going to increase if there's cars blocking the city they're not able to collect right so then

4:46:24so then those bins stay there and roll over to the next week so that that becomes problematic.

4:46:28I take your point member Mir I believe about snow removal where are those cars going to go?

4:46:36Right? They can't go on Kathleen that's already full pretty much. Both sides of the street are full

4:46:43on June Avenue so where where are those cars going to go? I think that

4:46:50there is a real urgency for accessible housing and I get that and I support that wholeheartedly.

4:46:58However the system has to work for everybody and and if we're going to say that we're applying a

4:47:06gentle density approach then I think that we should adhere to those principles and if we're not going

4:47:11to that's fine let me know upfront that you know this is a necessity this is what it's going to

4:47:16look like we're sorry it's going to change the streetscape we're sorry it's going to impact you

4:47:21negatively be upfront with us about that but that's not how this is presented that's not

4:47:27what the city is presenting to us. I take issue with the fact as well the information that was

4:47:35circulated in our community did say for a total of four units right that was incorrect but at no

4:47:42point was that information updated to anybody in our community on the part of the applicant or

4:47:48anybody else so the people who live on the street don't have all of the the information they they

4:47:55don't know what's coming down the pipe so they're not here to speak to it because four units is

4:48:00reasonable who would who you know so I'm not comfortable with the the way the process has

4:48:10been handled I know that the applicant says that there was nothing shady about it but it just doesn't

4:48:17sit well the the basement apartment potential the lack of transparent information coming in the notice

4:48:26I just really think that a deferral would be in everybody's best interest so that the community

4:48:30at the very least can have complete and accurate information to formulate comments or or opinions

4:48:38about what's coming down so anyways that's all I have to say in addition to what Leigh Ann's already

4:48:43presented appreciate your time thank you very much if you want to wait right there my colleagues may

4:48:49have some questions committee members we have any questions of this delegate seeing none let me thank

4:48:56you sincerely for your time and your perspective thank you madam secretary treasurer do we have

4:49:02any other registered delegates mr chair we do the next is Emily Tishinko

4:49:22welcome can you state your name for the record please Emily Tishinko

4:49:26you have 10 minutes to address the committee thank you thank you mr chair and committee members

4:49:31I appreciate all the questions you've been asking you were clearly very thoughtful people

4:49:35and that gives me and I think my neighbors a lot of comfort I would echo a lot of the same

4:49:40concerns that my neighbors shared but first I'll read you what I wrote here I want to be clear

4:49:47that I am in favor of affordable housing so this is a personal attack against my neighbor it's not

4:49:51meant to be opposed to higher density housing but I do believe that skirts that that gentle

4:49:57intense intensification that we've been talking about a lot today and it feels very aggressive

4:50:01very fast very obscured and very confusing and to me that doesn't seem like a clear

4:50:07democratic process that that alarms me and I still want to address that it appears there are eight

4:50:15units there the roughen isn't just roughen it's a plan so I just question why would there be floor

4:50:22plans why would there be walls built in internally why would there be a sink indicated in a basement

4:50:28if it's not going to be used and then if that's the case if there are four units if that's ever

4:50:34a possibility as some as Laura said there would need to be probably more than two parking spaces so

4:50:41realistically how will that be addressed will it adhere to the bylaws in the future and I do

4:50:48also want to to state that it was I was told that that basement apartment would be rented by my

4:50:54neighbor I wasn't I didn't think it was an issue to bring up and and and I just can't not not mention

4:51:01that today I was told by him I have it in in text format so me that that that to me is is not the

4:51:12full truth either either end so my biggest concern is just how the information is being presented

4:51:20and what will actually be built there and will we be told will we have a say in that process

4:51:27and that's all I have to say today thank you for listening thank you very much if you want to

4:51:32just pause for a second there may be some questions from the committee committee members do we have

4:51:38questions of this applicant our delegate seeing none let me thank you again

4:51:45um madam secretary treasurer do we have another delegate we do mr chair the next is ruben solano

4:51:53and that individual's appearing via video hello hello can you state your name for the record please

4:52:04yes my name is Ruben Solano and um you have 10 minutes to address the committee so make as much

4:52:11use of that time as you'd like thank you very much I don't think I'll take too much time here

4:52:17I just wanted to come on and obviously express how I feel with the developments around the community

4:52:26me being a recent graduate from the University of Guelph personally I always had a really hard

4:52:32time finding rental properties so to me I know obviously I don't want to say anything that goes

4:52:40against the neighbors and and the individuals living in that like near term community but

4:52:47just for the broad term it does seem like this could be a a really good thing and I know there's

4:52:53a lot of concern about the parking but there there also is a very high demand for individuals I

4:53:00don't need parking and that would justify a good discount on units and that's how I've always shop

4:53:08since I don't have a vehicle so anytime there's a good amount of units that are a little bit bigger

4:53:14that don't have parking it's nice for ones that you wouldn't necessarily be punished for paying for

4:53:21a spot that you're never really going to use but that's really all I wanted to come on and say

4:53:29it just it seems like maybe for Guelph you know getting a lot more expensive for a lot of younger

4:53:35individuals that this this could be a good thing as well okay thank you very much and

4:53:48wait wait there I'll see if any questions are forthcoming committee members do you have any

4:53:54questions member good fellow I just wanted to through the chair to the applicant I just

4:54:03wanted to ask and confirm whether or not you had a relationship with the property that we're

4:54:08discussing here um sorry and I apologize if this may be a bit blunt but it does feel like maybe you

4:54:16have an interest in this and I think I would like to understand that so I can put your comments in

4:54:20context yeah the the landlord used to be one of my landlords so when I was here for school he was a

4:54:29landlord at a different property um and he was always very nice and intrigued me with respect so

4:54:35obviously I'd like to voice that I think he's one of the good ones and I'd love to see you know a

4:54:40project come through because nowadays with how the LTB is structured and and how things are it seems

4:54:47like oftentimes you're you're going toe to toe against landlords so it's it's nice to see that

4:54:55you know it wouldn't have to be that way but yeah that I so to be fair yeah I do do have a

4:55:01relationship with the landlord thank you I thank you for being so forthcoming about that I I

4:55:09appreciate it and and just maybe I'll probe a little deeper is that a financial relationship or is it

4:55:14more as a friendship that has extended um after you know the landlord-tenant relationship ended

4:55:21yeah I think it's a it's a strong friendship now like I I do see fairly often so we we are good

4:55:30friends now so and he's he's very generous with all sorts of things so yeah it's hey thank you

4:55:41any other questions seeing none let me thank you again for your delegation

4:55:49Madam Secretary Treasurer do we have any other registered delegates

4:55:54Mr. Chair the last um delegate we have is Clinton Chan I believe that individuals on

4:56:01appearing via video is the delegate there you said sorry it's video is it yeah it's the

4:56:12delegate there right um yes go ahead can you state your name for the record please

4:56:27yeah my name is Clinton Chan and Mr. Chan you have 10 minutes that you can address the committee

4:56:37um amazing thank you um my name is Clinton Chan I am the landlord and owner of Guelph um

4:56:47been a long-term resident here when I was 10 years old um hopefully can't say I'm okay I know I'm

4:56:53a bit soft-spoken I'm in every state in Guelph um University of Guelph um that exact property

4:57:00um I actually didn't realize I thought I was just registering just to be a listener but um

4:57:06the only thing two things I'd like to address is I did email a copy of the text conversation

4:57:13to the committee of adjustment email um the conversation friend I was very clear that

4:57:20they now actually I'll read it very quickly the text message from Emily was hey Clinton I hope

4:57:25you're doing well smiley face I have a question for you one of my co-workers is looking for an

4:57:30apartment for herself has been in the child I was wondering if you think your rental will be

4:57:33available in the near future and if they'd be great tenants I said hey when are you hoping to move in

4:57:39and you replied they're looking um at the moment by fall September but are flexible and I replied so

4:57:47for June I was getting redeveloped dot dot how large an apartment would they hoping for I have a

4:57:51two-bedroom on Woolwich that just got recently renovated it's a duplex or stacked townhouse

4:57:56style unit for about about 600 ish square feet and I have them get in touch with my property

4:58:01manager otherwise we can have four bedrooms um and so I did not in any way promise that basement

4:58:10unit um there is um concern with um the committee um regarding the wet bar the basement staircase

4:58:20we have no problem with um a condition of the severance to remove that wet bar and the basement

4:58:27staircase it's pretty these these development projects are ultimately expensive when not a

4:58:34I'm not a big developer like Akiva on it's narrow or a fusion homes this would be a first development

4:58:41project um the development projects are very expensive and with the machine and financing being

4:58:49the biggest piece it is more cost effective structure the financing from a four unit development

4:58:55into a six-tinger development from like a development charge point of view on carrying

4:58:59costs that's the reason why we present um permits that way um and we have no issue with making a

4:59:10condition of the sevens removing those steps and the wet bar if necessary um where really just

4:59:18trying to look forward frankly these development buildings are meant to last 30 50s 70 years

4:59:24ultimately like the duke triplex that built in the 70s that are slowly getting redeveloped

4:59:29over the next now in decade and um if what wallfish can continue to grow for the current

4:59:34trajectory you know it's not unreasonable to expect um zoning um to catch up to places like

4:59:42Toronto where they're permitting six units as of right in the um uh Scarborough um this pilot

4:59:48zoning area so yeah I hope that answers some questions um that's all

4:59:56really give up the rest of my time dear chairman okay thank you um committee members do we have

5:00:04any questions of this delegate um seeing none oh sorry members fears has a question for you yes

5:00:12I through you mr chair to the uh to the owner yeah you I just want to make sure I really

5:00:19heard what I thought you said yeah you said we wanted to present it as two units per side

5:00:25because it reduced the development charges is that what you said correct so when you get developing

5:00:31these things most of us don't have a couple million bucks lying around they don't know about you

5:00:35members fears um there's a loan facility you have to get from the construction um loan from like um

5:00:41you know a c m h c or a private loan or construction lender and they want to the loan

5:00:47to represent the whole ultimate and size the project and if you're getting a loan for a four

5:00:54unit building that you take out and the development charges are two units less and obviously there's

5:01:00less kitchens and less initial material and so then when you close that um permit with a semi

5:01:08semi-detached duplex so a four unit building that building would be deemed substantially

5:01:15uh completed and you actually get more favorable terms on the second loan you would take

5:01:21um at lower interest rates and such like that better firms better financing conditions

5:01:26study would take as a second permit that would add that third unit and on each side does I answer

5:01:32the question and obviously be a smaller loan loan facility a smaller total loan size too as well

5:01:39well yeah I guess it does answer the question and fascinating I'm I'm glad to learn that

5:01:44most people think of it this way um like I'm a numbers guy studying math so the way I think of it

5:01:49is and I it's not placed judgment um in land development roughly a good role from heuristics

5:01:57you want your land to be about 25 to 30 percent of the project value in places like Toronto and

5:02:03Vancouver there's a nominees where it's up to 50 percent and um financing charges is what we call

5:02:08like the cost of the interest on the whole loan so if you take a two million dollar loan at 10

5:02:12interest there's a 200 000 dollar interest that has to be paid are you following me so far

5:02:19sorry I was sure yes yes yes so go ahead yeah so if we can lower that loan by 500 000 dollars by

5:02:27having two units of the only charges less less building costs for example and we shorten that

5:02:34loan from a 12-month period to an eight month period because we're building four units versus

5:02:38six um obviously the whole project is now cheaper and we can make those rents a little bit cheaper

5:02:44and then when you close that building because it's a substantially completed building and CMHC

5:02:49sees the most risky part as the demolishing the servicing the building of the foundation

5:02:54the framing once they see a completed building uh like a first national bank will give me like

5:03:00prime plus half a percent so now the second portion of that building construction loan is going to be

5:03:05like a um I hate to interrupt but um I think we're straying a little off the topic here and I do

5:03:14appreciate your your interest and and and your forthrightness but um I think we've we've gone a

5:03:25little too far into the weeds um with your answer so um unless we have another question

5:03:33um I'm going to thank you very much for your presentation no problem the the

5:03:39the devils in the details I will say okay uh Madam Secretary Treasurer do we have another

5:03:48registered delegate Mr Chair that's the end of the registered delegates I'm not sure if there's

5:03:53some in the audience um is there any on else online no one else online um is there anyone in

5:04:01the gallery who would like to speak to this application yes please come forward good evening

5:04:25can you state your name for the record please yeah my name is Peter Vanderpreet and you can

5:04:31speak to us with your delegation for 10 minutes okay um I've been listening to the comments

5:04:40by the developer and his statements along the lines of it's what we've done in Kitchener it's

5:04:46what we've done in London but this is Guelph and so therefore I would think that the committee would

5:04:51be more representative if they're going to treat Guelph as Guelph and therefore the application

5:04:58that's in front of us seeing how it's so muddled as to what the intent of the property is going to be

5:05:05that it be deferred the other things I wanted to bring up I'm having a con uh an issue trying to

5:05:13understand what an adu is and an ad are you is I'm hearing additional rental unit and additional

5:05:22dwelling units does that mean that the proposed property is going to have four dwelling units

5:05:32and four additional rental units or these additional dwelling units um the concept that

5:05:43somebody is going to rent an apartment and not have parking is an opportunity for them to get an

5:05:52apartment at a cheaper rent and park their car around the corner so to think that a person is

5:05:59going to arbitrarily say oh I don't need a car parking spot is I think something that the committee

5:06:06needs to really consider on top of everything else the two parking spots are inside a garage

5:06:15and then there's two parking spots that are outside the garage so if a person wants to get their car

5:06:20out from inside the garage he now needs to find the person that owns the car that's sitting blocking

5:06:25the garage to move it out onto the street so he can back out onto the street and take off at this car

5:06:31I think that logic would dictate that that doesn't work for people um the other thing I wanted to

5:06:42point out was um the fact that it's going to be a three-unit dwelling unit it currently faces it's

5:06:53right around the corner from Kathleen on June Avenue so that anybody looking out the right

5:06:59hand side of the building is going to be able to look into the backyards and into the bedrooms

5:07:05of 334 and 336 Kathleen on top of that on the other side is June is number six June Avenue

5:07:14and now you're going to take a single-story residential building and put up a 29 and a

5:07:19half foot high wall that's going to be about eight feet away from her prop was actually five feet from

5:07:26her property line so that all the sunshine in the morning coming up is going to be blocked out until

5:07:32the sun is almost right above and then carry on I understand that this may not be something the city

5:07:39is looking at but there is more and more talk about the right to sunlight and I don't know where the

5:07:46city stands as far as any bylaws concerning that I'm sure that they consider it when they build

5:07:51five-story apartment buildings but not necessarily a three-story residential unit to the next door

5:07:57neighbor um we've already discussed about the garbage but the gentleman up above the uh the

5:08:09applicant um stated that currently their commercial truck is coming in to pick up the garbage um

5:08:18this is again a residential street and now we've already got a commercial outfit working on the

5:08:24street um I think those are the comments that I wanted to make at this meeting

5:08:33thank you if you want to wait right there um my colleagues may have some questions committee

5:08:38members any questions um I will offer one clarification then I have used the term ADRU

5:08:46which is an older term because my older adult brain still clutches onto it so forgive me that

5:08:53that is that is my fault for using that incorrect term it is an ADU okay so by ADU does that mean

5:09:02they are rental units then um that that is up that's something that will come up in the discussion

5:09:07I'm sure with the uh applicant so uh generally speaking though to answer your question um

5:09:15in a three-plex situation like this there would likely be a couple of rental units on each side

5:09:22okay thank you again for your comments we do legitimately appreciate them thank you

5:09:28is there anyone else in the gallery who would like to speak to this application

5:09:34anyone else who would like to speak to this application and I'll ask a third time is there

5:09:39anyone else who would like to speak to this application seeing none um I would like to know

5:09:47yes the applicant is still online I see um oh yes Madam Ross um before we proceed with the

5:09:56applicant through you Mr. Chair I have a question about the notice period um or the notice of public

5:10:04hearing so the notice as I see it in in my files is dated uh June 23rd and the notice uh indicates

5:10:14that there are four residential units proposed now the applicant applicant has explained to us

5:10:21that this was inadvertent and that six units was always uh intended um so at some point in the last

5:10:29two weeks the community has become aware that it has that is not four units but six units and I'm

5:10:38I'm just wondering from staff was that information available on the city's website

5:10:48how was the the shift from the understanding by the community from four to six over the last

5:10:54two weeks how how did how did that all unfold through the chair to member Ross I can answer some

5:11:04of your questions after the notice was sent out um it came to staff's attention from members of the

5:11:11public um that they believed that there was more uh ADUs proposed we did follow up with the applicant

5:11:19at the time that we wrote the notice we confirmed with the applicant how many units they were proposing

5:11:24that's why the the public notice was written in that in that fashion um after we followed up with them

5:11:31we did confirm that they were ultimately proposing those three units we did confirm with the

5:11:39individuals that had reached out to us from the public and informed them of that

5:11:44unfortunately there wasn't enough time to recirculate a notice within the

5:11:48required notice period we did indicate on the staff comments about the particular mistake

5:11:55one of the reasons in terms of staff when we looked at this is that this is an application for

5:12:00consent it's not a minor variance to require you know additional ADUs or or that it really isn't

5:12:09like crux of the application here for the severance I understand it's a it's an issue there but

5:12:14staff didn't feel that there was another notice that needed to be sent out we are not required

5:12:18legislatively to indicate how many units are proposed as long as they're meeting the zoning

5:12:23bylaw there so that's a little bit of the background there member Ross thank you for that um

5:12:32thank you madam secretary treasurer for that point of order um at this point um I see the

5:12:38applicant is still online so if there are any issues that have been raised that you'd like to

5:12:47answer um you have the floor perfect thank you and thank you for all the concerns and

5:12:55comments and questions um we do we are listening um in terms of the number of units uh that you

5:13:04know my understanding as the committee said that the severance is not dictated on number of units so

5:13:14we might not have paid too much attention to it for that reason we apologize for it but at the

5:13:18end of the day the severance shouldn't be dictated on the number of units uh there is a lot of concern

5:13:25comments on parking this is too big of a building um and and so forth but um you know that we're

5:13:32rushing this build and this is not slow intensification but we're meeting the zoning bylaw so

5:13:40if we were applying for variances and other planning approvals I would agree that you know we're

5:13:46stretching the limits but we're following the zoning bylaw that's approved by the city um we're

5:13:52not going you know above and beyond so we we feel like we're following the the city's direction

5:13:57on on where they're going and uh and yeah and that's about it thank you thank you um committee

5:14:07members any follow-up questions of the for the applicant yes member yeah through you chair and

5:14:15to uh staff city the the question I've got because the the owner had indicated are we able to

5:14:27put conditions or restrictions in there that would require the removal of those basement stairs

5:14:34um I'll let city staff answer that to the chair um through the chair sorry it's not something we

5:14:51would recommend dictating how an internal building is designed um early we have zoning staff who look

5:15:00at building permits plans examiners they're signed off by management um that confirm that the design

5:15:09does meet the requirements of the building code and also zoning and sorry actually let me just add

5:15:18to this um even just cutting off the stairs to the basement that then removes an interconnection

5:15:24between the main floor and the basement unit which can be then just used as one unit and then

5:15:32allows it to be its own entity if there's no stairs down to the basement um

5:15:41it doesn't remove the potential for it being used in a residential way it just removes the staircase

5:15:53thank you member good fella um I appreciate the member uh the member's question because um

5:16:01I was actually wondering the same thing so I'll ask the staff through the chair

5:16:06about the external staircase to the basement because I think there's both an internal and

5:16:12an external and is the answer different if we're talking explicitly about the external staircase

5:16:20again through the chair um it external stairs are permitted um could could you put on a condition

5:16:38I don't know if there's anything to stop that but um um again like sorry I'm struggling with this one

5:16:55anyone want to jump in here save me I have to do the share to member good fellow generally we wouldn't

5:17:04advise including conditions to that effect um considering that it does meet zoning requirements

5:17:10and you know safe access is also something that's important from a from a building code perspective

5:17:15so I don't think it's something that we you know that you're prohibited from including

5:17:20as a condition if you'd like but it's not something that staff would advise yes thank you to city staff

5:17:26both of you I appreciate that clarification any other questions of staff or the applicant

5:17:37um seeing none what is your wish committee members uh do we have um a motion before us

5:17:44member Fitzpatrick through you uh mr chairman it's with a lot of reluctance that I would motion

5:18:01to accept this application and I'm going to preface it by saying the application came to us

5:18:09with less than full integrity and but I realize that given the rules that we're dealing with

5:18:17our hands are tied but I'm I'm not impressed thank you and do we have a seconder under those

5:18:25circumstances member mir what discussion do we have on this motion if any member wrong

5:18:35member wrong um I'm struggling a bit here with regards to um the clarity of information

5:18:47that was communicated to the public uh so the notice period for um applications is already

5:18:59can I say very tight I mean it's a two-week period if I'm correct uh and

5:19:07when uh and part of I mean the whole whole idea is for the community to be aware of and to understand

5:19:14development that is in the vicinity of their homes and if the information uh is not clear or

5:19:22there was material inadvertently left out I think that's an important piece for um addressing

5:19:31uh our obligation around what constitutes notice to the community I appreciate and

5:19:39understand that the application is not based on the number of units however uh notice of what is

5:19:46happening is part of the public process and it is embedded in the rules that uh we follow

5:19:54so from that perspective I have real reservations about supporting the motion

5:20:01as it's been made and seconded yes member Spears I would pretty much echo that feeling

5:20:15although I will support this motion I think that it's a it's a very interesting example of how

5:20:20this stuff goes and uh I'm I'm with uh with you uh Matt Fitzpatrick I'm not impressed either

5:20:28but I don't think they blur I don't believe they really broke any rules there is no requirement

5:20:33to to and we know this from from our own experience some people tell you what they're

5:20:37going to do some people don't tell you what they're going to do and you know you just don't

5:20:41get the you don't have the the choice to know they don't have to tell you

5:20:46um so yeah I don't like it and and with respect to something like the stairs I just like to say

5:20:54if I had an outdoor access to my basement I would really like it so I would not mix that I just think

5:21:02you know yes and in the future it could turn into something else but that's not a bad thing

5:21:08if the if the if the the rules change and all of a sudden like literally they make a decision

5:21:13overnight that now there can be four units instead of three fine good on you for forward

5:21:19thinking I I don't think we should fault that designer for for looking into the future the

5:21:24way things are going today I I would not fault that decision one bit I'll be supporting this

5:21:31thank you member good yes I've uh I've also been really struggling with this one um I initially

5:21:38on paper looked at this application and um you know felt that it may not be appropriate for

5:21:46the neighborhood but I have to say that I spent a fair bit of time driving around the neighborhood

5:21:52and um although I I agree with my colleagues here that the applicant and the application was not

5:22:00impressive um and lacked clarity uh what I learned when I drove around the neighborhood was the

5:22:08that there are quite a number of semi-detached homes already in that neighborhood you know

5:22:13across Kathleen there are a couple of high density developments it does seem like those different

5:22:20density developments are coexisting in that neighborhood right now the streets are wider

5:22:27than some of the other applications I think we've reviewed even this evening so for all of those

5:22:32reasons I will be supporting this application although somewhat reluctantly thank you um

5:22:39member remember some do you have any contribution I will be supported the application

5:22:49I'm uh I guess in the same boat I'm reluctantly going to support this um

5:22:55um one of the things I I think I've mentioned in the past um as a designer I and a drafting coach

5:23:03I struggle with not imposing my personal opinion on some of these things and the lack of clarity

5:23:11professionally bothers me a great deal um and uh I I side with the neighbors when I looked at this

5:23:22and it and appears to be a foreplex I mean an eight plex or whatever it is um it it isn't clear

5:23:30having said that um we wouldn't be here um unless there was a minor variance um this is this is a

5:23:40consent agenda and so um unless there was by right the the owner could develop a foreplex

5:23:50and it could be look very much like uh what's been presented so again reluctantly I'm going

5:23:57to be supporting this um if there's no more oh yes member Spears I just want to make I think we

5:24:05the motion said uh approve and I just want to say we should modify it slightly with the addition

5:24:11of the conditions as recommended by city staff I just want to make sure that that that gets in there

5:24:17through you Mr Chairman I yes okay awesome um with that um I I think we've had a good

5:24:26discussion on this so I appreciate all the points of view and uh I I do appreciate um that members

5:24:34of the public have um stayed up late to um to give us their perspective and so I wanted to thank them

5:24:42sincerely for coming out and speaking to this application with that I'm going to ask uh

5:24:50that our Madam Secretary Treasurer take over thank you chair committee members please indicate

5:24:57your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion which is to approve the application

5:25:02with the recommended conditions chair Smith in favor member Fitzpatrick in favor member good

5:25:09fellow in favor member Membranio in favor member Mir in favor member Ross opposed and member Spears

5:25:20in favor that's carried Mr Chair your application has been approved thank you uh Madam Secretary

5:25:33Treasurer may we have the next application the next application is file a-69-25 variances to permit

5:25:43reduced rear and side yard setbacks for proposed and existing sheds at 279 Kathleen street I'll

5:25:50note for those attending remotely if you wish to speak to this application you can do so by calling

5:25:55the number displayed on the screen um is the applicant present good evening can you state

5:26:14your name for the record please and yes my name is Farzadeh Kampur and I'm living in 279

5:26:26Kathleen state with my wife Mahbub and we are both owner thank you and can you tell me if the sign

5:26:36was posted as per the planning act it was and can you tell me if you've read staff's comments and are

5:26:42you in agreement yes um as you may have seen through the course of the evening you have 10 minutes to

5:26:49address the committee to be honest with you I don't have anything to say everything was clear

5:26:56um that's concise so thank you um at this point um does city staff have any uh

5:27:06addition to their uh comments no okay committee members do we have any questions of the applicant

5:27:18at I guess at this point I need to ask if there's anyone in the audience who would like to speak

5:27:24to this application or if we have a delegation chair Smith I can confirm that we do have a

5:27:30delegate um the name is Dan pitch I believe that individual is going to be joining a joining us via

5:27:36phone good evening can you state your name for the record please you are muted at this point

5:27:46and we're not hearing um perhaps if you press star six to unmute yourself hello my name is Dan pitch

5:28:20ah awesome thank you welcome you have 10 minutes that you can address the committee

5:28:26okay it won't take that long um um I'm I live at 31 robertson so I am the property rest behind

5:28:36279 cathleen uh so I have a couple comments um I am okay with the existing building that is there

5:28:44at the back of the property at uh 0.41 meters setback I understand that this was built um

5:28:52without knowledge of the existing building code um I would be in favor of any additional buildings

5:29:00to be at the um proper setback of 0.6 meters as stated by the building code and if a building

5:29:10could be finished that's there the uh blue tarp is um it'd be nice to be if it was properly finished

5:29:16those are my only comments okay thank you uh committee members do we have any questions of

5:29:23this delegate um seeing none let me take some of your comments and put them to the proponent um

5:29:33first of all let me ask about the comment about um compliance with the the zoning bylaw on the

5:29:42setback for the new shed um or accessory unit um is there a reason that it can't comply with the

5:29:52existing setbacks it's follow up the existing we follow up the existing it was 0.41 and the

5:30:02I understand about the existing I'm talking about the new one the new the new one is the same

5:30:07both of them is the same okay and uh let me ask about the tarp um is is that something that can be

5:30:17addressed in the fullness of time no we wanted to finish it the ceiling but it was like cold

5:30:23times and we we're gonna be finish it soon this uh in the summer yeah okay so essentially you're

5:30:32waiting on the on the variance okay um member good fellow I believe has a question for I I do so

5:30:41through the chair to the applicant um I did did I notice that there is also a yurt that's in the

5:30:48backyard like I I when I looked at it I thought I was seeing that there was another structure

5:30:56um beyond maybe what's on the drawings was I am I correct in that yeah there is two

5:31:03shed one of them is existing and one of them is proposed new one okay so yeah because I I

5:31:10thought I was seeing a yurt that was kind of closer up towards the front of the house

5:31:15no it's on the backyard it is in the backyard it is on the backyard yeah that's right yeah

5:31:21okay thank you yeah member spirit yep through you mr chair of the applicant I'm looking at the sketch

5:31:30the drawing that's with the the uh the requests and it says proposed storage shed yeah but it's not

5:31:39proposed it's there it's there yeah so what's proposed about it I don't know I asked the

5:31:45uh committee of adjustment staff and they told me I should write it down as a proposed one

5:31:53I change it well if it's proposed that suggests that it's not built yet and if it's not built

5:31:59that yet then you could put it the correct distance yeah but if it's already built I think you're

5:32:06asking for an existing shed and yeah um I just want to be clear that you're you're trying to finish

5:32:12something that's already there did you build that one did you build that shed uh it was a year ago yes

5:32:18then you want yeah be real dope a year ago okay yeah so no building permit no building permit yeah

5:32:30thank you um any other questions committee members um seeing none what is your wish member

5:32:47spears I I actually moved to uh to uh refuse this application on on the basis that we're talking

5:32:55about an existing shed that's really not existing it's not finished and it was only built a year ago

5:32:59without a building permit I just don't think this should be a no okay we have a seconder for a refusal

5:33:13I don't see a seconder for that position so I will look for another motion um committee members

5:33:20do we have another motion to put before us member Fitzpatrick well question first through you

5:33:27through you mr chairman yeah two two staff so we we've got a proper a shed that's been built without

5:33:36a permit part of this process here is they're going to issue a permit with this minor variance

5:33:48is that yes um and I'm going to ask a follow-up question is that um included in staff's recommendations

5:34:08through chair to member uh Fitzpatrick sorry are you clarifying it's uh the building permit

5:34:16through you mr chairman well I'm looking at the recommended conditions and it's saying prior to the

5:34:21issue um prior to the issuance of a building permit um have you received a drainage plan or a

5:34:31grading report uh through the chair to member Fitzpatrick uh so the idea with that uh condition

5:34:44is that before the building permit is issued um the applicant will have to provide a grading and

5:34:49drainage plan to uh engineering staff to clear and then considering all the other parts of the

5:34:56building permit are done uh the permit would be issued after that thank you and through you mr

5:35:04chairman I'm maybe it's I'm being a little obtuse here but I'm trying to understand the process here

5:35:11we're asking for a variance on the setbacks for a structure that's been built without a permit

5:35:18and I'm trying to understand what how what does staff want us to approve uh through you chair to

5:35:29member Fitzpatrick um even if we're looking at it if it's a proposed or it's existing and they

5:35:36didn't have the permit and now they're coming for a variance I don't think it could really change

5:35:40our opinion of the minor variance that it's minor in nature um even if you were to approve it tonight

5:35:47they'd still need to clear the conditions before the minor variance is uh fully in effect thank you

5:35:54member good fellow uh yeah so this has raised another question for me as well so through the

5:36:05chair to city staff has the building as it is currently constructed been reviewed to understand

5:36:11if it meets all other building code requirements and is um it will be possible to get a building

5:36:18permit in its current configuration and the reason I'm asking is is it possible that the

5:36:24existing structure can't get a building permit in which case it may need to be adjusted reconstructed

5:36:33and then it should meet the zoning bylaw requirement of 0.6 meters through the chair to member

5:36:47good fellow um the application has not been submitted for a building permit yet it's been

5:36:56noted that it exists and that's why the applicant is here today to legalize the setback but then

5:37:05going through the building permit process then any structural changes would need to be done but

5:37:11there hasn't been a building permit submitted yet okay thank you okay um again this seems a little

5:37:28muddy but I'm wondering if we have enough information to formulate a uh a motion member

5:37:41mayor well I will move a motion for approval with the conditions the reason being the variances and

5:37:49all that has to be vetted by him before he will achieve anything so it covers when we approve

5:37:56that once we say with the conditions so he cannot have permits unless he goes through the processes

5:38:02he has to meet the variance I see all are uh documented so to me uh I will propose the motion

5:38:11for approval with conditions okay and so do we have a seconder for that member Fitzpatrick

5:38:23okay is there any further discussion on the uh motion before us sadly yes I just go ahead

5:38:30members I gotta make sure I understand and this is really to city staff it's a hypothetical really

5:38:37and um um member of a good fellow brought up an interesting point so a building permit is sought

5:38:46it turns out that can't get a building permit because the existing building does not does not

5:38:51meet code whatsoever and then needs to be demolished and rebuilt if we give the variance now

5:38:58does that mean that variance sticks with the the the new one that's going to get built

5:39:06or is that just a condition we need to put in there to the chair I think we would need to craft a

5:39:14condition that um the variance would apply to this existing building and if any if you're talking

5:39:26tearing it down or majoral major structural changes that would affect the setback it wouldn't

5:39:32apply to that it can be conditioned for this accessory structure only therefore if a new

5:39:42one needed to be built then the variance wouldn't apply for that I I think that would be a great

5:39:52condition to add if that's okay with the so essentially your can your additional condition

5:39:58would be that this variance would only apply to the existing structure

5:40:04existing proposed shed yes yeah that one okay is has that that is clear is that acceptable

5:40:18oh sorry yes yeah okay um the mover has accepted that condition

5:40:25um and so if there's no further discussion I'm going to call the question and ask our secretary

5:40:33treasurer to call the vote please thank you chair and just to make sure that we're wording that

5:40:42proposed additional condition correctly um something that wording could be the variance only

5:40:50applied to the existing accessory buildings as shown on the proposed notice sketch is that

5:40:57kind of in line what you were thinking yes I get sure like I'm just I'm just I want to be really

5:41:04cautious that I mean I looked at that thing I walked inside and I wouldn't surprise me if

5:41:10can't stay like that look pretty if you uh yeah I do have one request for a modification to that

5:41:20language um that because on the drawing it says that it's a proposed storage shed which implies

5:41:27that it doesn't exist and so I think we just want to adjust the language to make it clear that it is

5:41:34the the yes the the storage sheds as existing on the property currently rather than referencing

5:41:44the drawing because I do think there's a lack of clarity if we reference the drawing okay thank you

5:41:54member good fellow that does help um I think a lot of the struggles here are relating to the

5:42:00sketch as it says proposed storage shed and we have understood now that it is existing um

5:42:10so if we propose some wording that the variance only applied to the accessory buildings that currently

5:42:19exist on the property or something to that effect okay all right thank you

5:42:26so committee members please indicate your vote uh by responding in favor opposed to the motion

5:42:32which is to approve the application with the recommended conditions as well as the additional

5:42:36condition um about the existing sheds chair smith in favor member fits batrick in favor

5:42:45member good fellow in favor member rambrain yo in favor member mir in favor member ross in favor

5:42:52and member spears in favor let's carry mr chair your application has been approved thank you

5:43:00um member madam secretary treasurer i almost promoted you um

5:43:07may we have the next applicant please the next application is file a dash 70 slash 25

5:43:16variance to permit reduced rear yard setback for proposed water booster pumping station at 36

5:43:21verney street for those attending remotely um if you wish to speak to the application you can

5:43:26call 519-822-1260 extension 2524 to uh call in and delegate i'll also note the correspondence

5:43:34was received after the comment deadline from alexis wagner with concerns about the application

5:43:39and that correspondence has been circulated to the committee members um staff and the applicant

5:43:48good evening good evening can i uh get your name for the record please in your relationship to the

5:43:54application i'm andrea reid i'm a project engineer at gei consultants and we're the design engineers

5:44:00for this project and i'm nathe morris representative of the owner city of wealth thank you can you

5:44:07tell me if the sign was um installed as per the planning act yes it was and have you read staff's

5:44:15comments and are you in agreement we are yes um as you may have seen will you have 10 minutes to

5:44:21address the committee uh we have nothing else to say we agree with the comments um yep i'm happy

5:44:29to answer any questions or thank you um committee members do we have any questions of these yes

5:44:36member fitzpatrick um through you mr chairman uh to the applicant have and are you able to address

5:44:45the concerns about noise and vibration uh that have been raised by the neighbors uh yeah of course

5:44:52through the chair to member fitzpatrick um i think the first thing that was brought up by

5:44:58the resident of i believe it's 52 verney um she was under the uh impression that the 4.72 meter setback

5:45:06was from her property line and it isn't um the building is in the southwest corner of the properties

5:45:12there's actually about a 38 meter setback from her property line to the new building so that's

5:45:18one of the concerns addressed um city water services manager did i believe uh did you know about that

5:45:26yeah chair uh through you uh matt bender manager of water operations emailed the alexis wagner to

5:45:36respond to her concerns and then with regards to noise specifically we are undertaking a noise

5:45:44study right now as part of the site plan application um in general pumping stations are not noisy

5:45:50buildings they're situated throughout the city and residential neighborhoods often very close to the

5:45:55adjacent residences they're built in such a way and the pumps are designed in such a way that they

5:46:00generally aren't noisy so it is our hope that through this process we can have a conversation

5:46:04whether and hopefully alleviate those concerns thank you thank you any other questions for the

5:46:12applicant um seeing none madam secretary treasurer do we have any registered delegates

5:46:19mr chair we do not um let me ask if uh they're city staff did you have any comments to make on

5:46:29this proposal um they're looking at each other but uh go for the comments mr chair just in the

5:46:37comments okay thank you and i should have said additional comments is there anyone in the gallery

5:46:42who would like to speak to this application seeing no one rushing forward i am going to turn it over

5:46:51to committee members of committee what is your wish member member i know i move to approve the

5:47:01application was recommended by city staff and we have a seconder member good fellow is there any

5:47:07discussion seeing none madam secretary treasurer would you call the roll please committee members

5:47:15please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion which is to approve the

5:47:19application chair smith in favor member fits patrick in favor member good fellow in favor

5:47:26member membrane y'all in favor member mir remember ross in favor and member spears in favor

5:47:33that's carried mr chair your application has been approved thank you madam secretary treasurer may

5:47:42we have the next application please the next and final application is file a dash 71 slash 25

5:47:53varying system permit reduced setbacks for proposed interior stairway addition and ramp

5:47:58reduced buffer strip and for stairs ramp and concrete path to be located within buffer strip

5:48:03at 107 to 109 waterloo avenue although i'll note for those still attending remotely you can still

5:48:09speak to this application if you wish by calling the phone number 5198221260 extension 2524 and

5:48:18finally i will note for the committee's note that we have discussed with the applicant that the sign

5:48:25the notice sign was posted late on the property it was posted on july 2nd and the deadline

5:48:32was for it to be posted was june 30th we've had those discussions with the applicant and if the

5:48:39committee feels that adequate notice wasn't provided they are welcome to defer the application but

5:48:46i will leave that in the committee's hands yes welcome i'm sorry you drew the short straw in

5:48:56the schedule this evening but can you state your name for the record for sure it's uh Lloyd

5:49:01Grinham Grinham architects welcome mr. Grinham and can you tell me the sign was posted for the planning

5:49:09act as from what the secretary treasurer has said it was posted but but yes we did but it was a bit

5:49:16tardy i understand it there was there was quite honestly there was just a bit of the ball dropping

5:49:22between myself the contractor and everyone that thought they were picking it up friday

5:49:28didn't pick it up on monday and then tuesday was the holiday so it went up very early wednesday morning

5:49:34right after they picked it up at city hall so yes full disclosure it didn't go up on monday when okay

5:49:40and can you tell me if you've read staff's comments and are you in agreement yes uh yes the comments

5:49:48all made sense with the with the exception if i can say this i'm a little confused by the metro

5:49:54links comments but i'm not sure if that's for the committee to enlighten me or it's just a staff

5:49:59discussion later um what i would suggest is if you make your presentation we'll draw out from

5:50:05staff's comments about that okay metro links qualification okay well the presentation will

5:50:13be mercifully brief for all of us um just the sign we wanted to make kind of mention of that that

5:50:19we didn't quite get it up in time uh the variances there was a comment that they were missed in the

5:50:24previous thing and if anyone's wondering why they were missed in our previous visit to the committee

5:50:29about this project back in i think november of last year um they really came out of that that

5:50:37visit the committee of adjustment for the first variances had more to do with building zoning

5:50:42kind of approval and things and we didn't really have a chance to get into the property internally

5:50:48until windham house had acquired the property very near the end of december and so really what's

5:50:55driving this request for a variance is an internal configuration that when we went through and the

5:51:02intent was always to retain one of the existing internal staircase and had a new one with the

5:51:08addition but as we got into the building and were able to do more extensive investigations we

5:51:13determined that the existing staircase out of the basement portion of it wouldn't meet building code

5:51:20in terms of clearance and head headroom that sort of thing which long story short requires us to kind

5:51:26of change the current door out of the basement stair location which is in line with the building

5:51:33to bring it out to be in line with the landings of the stairs above that and it was just it was

5:51:40kind of a zoning thing that the because the building foundation was discussed at the original one

5:51:47and it was a variance from the the current zoning because it's an old building but the so-called

5:51:53bump out above that where the second and third floor standing or landings occur didn't go to the

5:51:59ground currently previously but to make the building actually work according to building code

5:52:05requirements today we need a little more space out of the building and so we're asking to bring

5:52:09that line to the ground hence the encroachment on the three meter buffer strip and then the other

5:52:15piece that came out of that which is the second requested piece is that in the development and

5:52:22sort of more detailed grading review of the site that we were able to do and working out how to do

5:52:27a wheelchair ramp to make the whole ground floor accessible we got it all to work at the back and

5:52:32we said it's it's great but it would make sense to have two steps down from the landing at the top

5:52:37of the ramp rather than make everybody go an extra 20 30 feet around and come back up the ramp so

5:52:43it's kind of a request just for kind of practicality and hopefully a little sensible little sensible

5:52:48design that someone will look at me later and go why'd you miss that so that's that's the genesis

5:52:53of the two requests the the conditions I should mention too we had through this process as we went

5:53:02from the previous minor variance approvals through building permits we went through sort of an

5:53:08interesting pseudo site plan approval process because now you don't do site plan approval

5:53:13for this many units so we had lots of discussions with various departments throughout the city

5:53:19engineering parks zoning planning building lots of planning and building but the the mention of

5:53:27the tree protection plan I think which was one of the comments from planning and from the landscape

5:53:33that tree protection plan has been done actually I just received it yesterday and it will be going

5:53:38to the city staff for review tomorrow hopefully so we had site visits with city staff prior to

5:53:46putting that together and now we've got that plan and that will be in as one of the items that was

5:53:50mentioned in here as well engineering as well there have been ongoing discussions with our

5:53:56engineers one of whom just left and city staff about how to service the building because as you

5:54:03probably know it's it's kind of two buildings connected and just through the course of the

5:54:09second piece being built some 40 50 years ago it has two services it has two hydro services has all

5:54:15kinds of duplication and as part of a kind of housekeeping exercise with the city we have to

5:54:21bring everything into single services now so we're taking out two sanitary services and putting in

5:54:26one new one we're doing the same with the water we're doing the same with the hydro so all of that

5:54:30has recently been captured on updated site servicing drawings which are I think with engineering now

5:54:36and will be part of a whole permit resubmission that we have to do we do have building permits now

5:54:42but we're doing our housekeeping to kind of bring all these last pieces

5:54:47in line with that and then the final round of all the other departments for the site related

5:54:52works to be part of that next permit reissuements for us so construction won't start for another

5:54:58few weeks I think we're looking at sometime in August now so I think apart from my Metrolinx

5:55:06comment confusion I think that's the extent of what I had to to present thank you very much

5:55:14for the thoroughness of your application or presentation rather and

5:55:20many members do we have any questions for the applicant seeing none I wonder if city staff can

5:55:32speak to the question about the Metrolinx qualification through you Mr. Chair those are

5:55:42our standard Metrolinx comments for all properties within 300 meters of the Metrolinx rail corridor

5:55:49personally given the scope of the variance requested I don't think that those conditions

5:55:54are necessary to demonstrate good planning on the part of this application but I'll leave it up to

5:56:00the committee to decide whether whether or not to include those conditions so staff would not

5:56:07be opposed to leaving that qualification that off the the request is that from again

5:56:18in this case yes that's correct thank you um okay I'll uh question if there are any registered

5:56:27delegates for this application Mr. Chair I can confirm no registered delegates okay and is there

5:56:34anyone in the gallery who'd like to speak to this application um seeing none um committee members

5:56:45what is your wish member good fellow I move we approve the application with the condition as

5:56:53recommended by city staff are you going to accept the Metrolinx condition without the

5:57:01Metrolinx condition okay and do we have a seconder member Spears is there any question debate

5:57:11none okay Madam Secretary Treasurer would you do the honors please

5:57:17may members please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion which is to

5:57:22approve the application with the recommended condition chair Smith in favor member Fitzpatrick

5:57:29in favor member good fellow in favor member Mambrenio in favor member Mir

5:57:36member Ross in favor and member Spears in favor that's carried Mr. Chair thank you your application

5:57:42has been approved and again thank you for your patience this has been a bit of a

5:57:48a long meeting so we do appreciate you hanging around to the bitter end well that's okay thanks

5:57:55very much for for waiting around for us too so thanks very much um I believe that it

5:58:04is the end of our agenda Madam Secretary Treasurer do you have any announcements Mr. Chair I just

5:58:13do have one brief announcement and that's regarding an update on an older OLT or an older

5:58:20minor variance file that had an OLT appeal so minor variance file a-19-23 for 201 Elmira Road South

5:58:28that was regarding variances for angular plane and finish grade definition it was refused by the

5:58:35committee at the April 13th 2023 hearing and subsequently appealed by the applicant and that

5:58:42appeal has now been withdrawn so the original decision to refuse is now final and binding so

5:58:48just a quick update for the committee on that and that's all the announcements I have Mr. Chair

5:58:55thank you very much and first let me thank staff for hanging around for this late hour I do

5:59:02appreciate your diligence and your attendance here this evening and I also want to welcome

5:59:07the new members of the committee and thank you for for your contribution tonight and I look forward

5:59:15to working with you in the future and touch wood not all meetings will be this lengthy but

5:59:24it's an interesting baptism I I'm sure so thank you and with that I'd like to ask for a motion to adjourn

5:59:34member good fellow seconded by member mirror all in favor we stand adjourned thank you ladies and

5:59:42gentlemen