Committee of Adjustment

0:22Good afternoon, Guelph. I'd like to call to order the June 8th hearing of the Committee of Adjustment.

0:28This hearing is being held in a hybrid format with attendees appearing in person or remotely and is being live streamed and recorded.

0:38Please be advised that public hearings form part of the public record and the words, names or images of those participating shall be recorded and posted online.

0:49I have confirmed with the Secretary of Treasury that we have forum to proceed this afternoon.

0:54Before I outline the hearing format, if you wish to speak to an application that's listed on the agenda and have not submitted a request in advance of the hearing,

1:04please call the number displayed on the screen now, which is 519-822-1260.

1:13That's 519-822-1260 and the extension is 2524.

1:20You will receive instructions at that time how to participate.

1:24A final call for delegations will be made when each application is called.

1:29The agenda for this hearing has been posted online at guelph.ca forward slash c of a.

1:38I will remind all committee members and staff participating in the hearing to please mute your microphones when not in use.

1:45Applicants will be unmuted when their application is called.

1:49I'd also like to share the hearing format we will be using to navigate through each form application.

1:56Each application will be called by the Secretary of Treasury and the call in number for those wishing to speak to an application will be displayed on the screen.

2:04Afterwards, the applicant will be given an opportunity to add anything further to their application to a maximum of 10 minutes.

2:12And I will add at this point that we have a very full agenda today and I am going to be strict with the 10-minute rule.

2:19I will give you a heads up one minute prior to that.

2:24If you are an applicant and have nothing further to add, then you can simply say so.

2:29The committee will then be able to ask questions of the applicant or staff.

2:35After that, we'll hear from members of the public who wished to comment on the application.

2:39Please note that all comments should be addressed through myself the chair.

2:44Please avoid repeating concerns already stated by others and focus on adding new information.

2:51Comments are limited to 10 minutes or less.

2:55Any members of the public who have submitted a request to speak prior to the hearing will be first invited to provide comments.

3:01For those watching the hearing online, if you wish to speak to an application and have not submitted a request in advance of the hearing, please call the number displayed on the screen now.

3:14For those attending the hearing in person, you will also be given a chance to come forward to the podium and address the committee.

3:20Once all comments from the public have been heard, the applicant or staff will be given the opportunity to respond to comments.

3:28Finally, as the chair, I will turn to the committee for a motion and deliberate deliberation as well as a vote on the application.

3:40When the committee is making a decision on an application, the chair will be asking the secretary-treasurer to conduct a vote by roll call.

3:50The secretary-treasurer will call each of the members' name and each member shall respond if they are in favor or opposed to the motion, and the chair will announce the result of the motion.

4:05If you wish to receive a copy of the decision of an application, including information about the appeal process, you must submit a written request.

4:16A request can be made by contacting staff using the contact information shown on the screen.

4:23If you receive a copy of the decision, please email cofa at gulf.ca with your name and the file number you're interested in.

4:33Please note that owners and applicants automatically receive a copy of the decision.

4:41At this point, it is time for our First Nations Acknowledgement, and I will ask Member Spears to provide our First Nations Acknowledgement.

4:52As we gather, we are reminded that Guelph is situated on treaty land that is steeped in rich indigenous history and home to many First Nations Inuit and Métis people today.

5:02As a city, we have a responsibility for the stewardship of the land on which we live and work.

5:07Today, we acknowledge the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation of the Adnishnababak peoples on whose traditional territory we are meeting.

5:18Thank you, Member Spears.

5:21Are there any disclosures of pecuniary interest?

5:25I recognize Member Klein.

5:30Thank you. Through you, Mr. Chair, I have to disclose an interest on item 2.1 application A69-2022 and 111 Watson Road South as my spouse is a, he's an employee and shareholder of Tacoma Engineers who is the agent acting on behalf of the applicant.

5:53Thank you. I appreciate that, Member Klein.

5:58And as you have declared a pecuniary interest, I will ask that you turn your video on mic off for this particular hearing.

6:09At this point, I'll ask for a member to move the approval of the minutes of the last meeting.

6:22Do I have a mover?

6:24Member Hamilton, seconded by Member Seyer, was it? Sorry.

6:33All those in favor?

6:37I've confirmed with the Secretary of Treasury that we've received a deferral request and I will pass over to Madam Secretary Treasurer to handle that.

6:49Thank you, Chair. It was noted on the revised agenda that we do have a deferral request for minor variance file A-37-23 for 5 Nicholas Way.

7:01Planning staff are of the opinion that this minor variance application is premature and recommend deferral of the application until outstanding items have been addressed and reviewed through a formal site plan application.

7:13The applicant has also indicated that they are in agreement with the deferral request and I don't believe that they're in attendance this evening.

7:21Thank you, Madam Secretary Treasurer. Just to confirm, is the applicant either here or not here but remotely accessible?

7:37Chair Smith, I can confirm that they're not in attendance virtually.

7:41Okay, I'll ask at this point if there are any members of the public who would like to address this application.

7:51I see none in the gallery. Are there any online?

7:55Chair Smith, we hadn't received any delegation requests.

7:59At that point, I will ask my colleagues for a motion deferral. Sorry, member Goodfellow, I didn't see you. I looked over from maturely. So I have a motion. Do I have a seconder?

8:22I have a seconder and I will call the vote.

8:30And please go ahead, Madam Secretary Treasurer.

8:37Thank you, Chair Committee members. Please indicate if you're in favor or opposed to the motion, which is to defer the application.

8:46Chair Smith.

8:48In favor.

8:52And Chair Smith, just before I go ahead, I just wanted to confirm the seconder that you had chosen. I just wanted to confirm that you had a seconder there.

9:03It was a member, sorry, member Sayers was it?

9:09Member Pike.

9:11Member Pike, sorry.

9:15Thank you, Chair. Okay.

9:19Member Goodfellow.

9:22In favor.

9:23Member Hamilton.

9:25In favor.

9:27Member Pike.

9:30In favor.

9:31Member Seher.

9:33In favor.

9:34And member Spears.

9:36In favor.

9:37That's carried, Chair.

9:41And the seconder, please go ahead.

9:44The second motion has been deferred.

9:47At this point, I will ask the Secretary Treasurer to call on the next applicant.

10:03The next application is file a dash 69 slash 22,

10:08variants to permit partially visible off street loading space at 111 Watson Road south.

10:15The next application is to permit the application.

10:19You can do so by calling the number shown on the screen. That number is 519-822-1260 extension 2524.

10:28Is the applicant in attendance?

10:31Here we are.

10:34Good afternoon. Can you state your name for the record, please?

10:37Hi, my name is Connor parent.

10:39And your relationship, Mr.

10:41I'm the agent that's working through this process from Tacoma engineers.

10:46Thank you. And can you tell me was the sign posted as per the planning act?

10:51Yes, it was.

10:53Thank you. You have 10 minutes in which to address the committee.

10:57Right. Hello, everybody.

11:03So this was a deferral from a previous meeting held in November.

11:08At which time we had a preliminary site plan that showed some landscaping as well as a potential.

11:17A public facility that was able to access the site with a

11:23fence across the front to visually screen the loading dock.

11:27We now come with a revised plan that includes additional landscaping.

11:33We don't have the gate as it does not comply with the zoning bylaw.

11:38But we do have additional vehicle tracking showing how the trucks would enter and exit the site as well.

11:55the justification information that we have the same documents that we submitted last time showing

12:02multiple and various dot loading docs at properties around Watson Road.

12:08And we also have an updated landscaping plan in terms of anything else. That's that's all I have

12:17right now. Thank you. That's concise. I'll turn to my colleagues to see if there are any questions

12:24for you if you want to wait right there please. Members of committee do you wish to address this?

12:31Gentlemen, seeing none I'll entertain a motion. Do I have a motion?

12:43Sorry I'm wondering if there's anyone in the audience who would care to comment on this.

12:50And seeing none do we have any online? Chair Smith I can confirm we don't have any delegation requests.

12:58Thank you. And I'll now turn to my colleagues for a member Sayer.

13:05Yeah I'll make a motion to have the application approved with the conditions recommended by staff.

13:12And do we have a seconder? Remember good fellow. Do we have any discussion on the motion? Seeing none

13:21I'll turn it over to Madam Secretary Treasurer to call the vote. Thank you Chair. Committee

13:29members please indicate if you're in favor or opposed to the motion which is to approve the

13:34application with the one recommended condition. Chair Smith in favor.

13:41Member Goodfellow in favor. Member Hamilton in favor. Member Pike in favor. Member Sayer in

13:50favor. And member Spears in favor. That's carried chair. Thank you. Your application has been approved.

13:58You're free to leave if you wish. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Madam Secretary Treasurer can you

14:09allow member Klein to come back in? There she is. At this point we can ask for the next applicant

14:18Secretary Treasurer. The next application is file A-10-23 permission to change the existing

14:35legal non-conforming use and prevent medical office, medical clinic, office and rental outlet

14:41at 265 Enverle Road South. I'll note for those attending or watching online if you wish to speak

14:48to the application you can do so by calling the number on the screen right now. That number is

14:52519-822-1260 extension 2524. Do we have the applicant present? Please come to the microphone

15:05and state your name for the record please. Good afternoon. My name is Patrick Casey.

15:11I am an agent acting on behalf of the applicant planner for GSP Group. And can you tell me if

15:18the sign was posted as per the planning? Yes it was. Thank you. And have you read staff's comments?

15:30Yes I have. Great. And you have 10 minutes to address the committee for your application.

15:50Thank you very much. I will endeavor to make this brief. I would like to start by clarifying the

15:59intent of the application. I believe there may have been some confusion about the fact that there

16:06were multiple potential uses listed. The applicant's intent is not for the subject property to be

16:13used for all of those uses. The intent was to identify land uses that met the criterion of

16:21being similar to the existing legal non-conforming use at the time the application was made or that

16:26were more compatible with uses permitted by the zoning of the property. And the intent is not to

16:33use the subject property for all of those uses but simply to identify that it may be used for

16:39one of those uses. The applicant refers to the term medical office which I know is not

16:47a separate definition in the city's new zoning bylaw. I have to lean down. We've continued to use

16:56the term medical office simply because it more accurately reflects the applicant's intent.

17:01The previous zoning bylaw, 1995, 14864 defined medical office as having a maximum of two practitioners.

17:10That is more in line with the applicant's intent. A medical clinic as defined in the new zoning

17:15bylaw does not stipulate a number of practitioners. The definition of medical clinic also includes

17:24accessory uses such as laboratory dispensary that the applicant does not intend to have as

17:30accessory uses should a medical office be permitted on the subject property.

17:35I understand that staff have recommended a refusal based on the basis that

17:43the proposed medical office or medical clinic use would intensify the site beyond what it can

17:49accommodate and that the proposed use is not similar to the existing legal non-conforming use

17:56or and is not more compatible with uses permitted by zoning.

18:03Staff's comments appear to fault the applicant for focusing on traffic and parking.

18:10I can say that the justification for the minor variance focused on those aspects because those

18:16seemed like the likeliest impacts in terms of the intensity of the use of the site. By traffic we

18:22mean sort of the comings and goings of employees or customers and parking is self-explanatory.

18:34I understand that some of the impacts that neighbors are concerned about include screening of the

18:39parking area from the neighboring residents as well as snow storage and I would like to say the

18:46applicant is open to discussing the placement of a fence or some sort of screening to address

18:52those neighbor concerns. On the matter of whether the proposed use is more compatible with permitted

18:59uses I would simply call attention to the fact that the permitted uses include a personal service

19:07use or service establishment which would involve the comings and goings of clients or customers

19:16similar to the level of comings and goings that one could expect for patients attending

19:21a medical office. The permitted uses also include a takeout restaurant which is a very high parking

19:29requirement and would also involve the comings and goings of customers possibly at hours outside

19:37of normal business hours whereas a medical office would tend to be restricted or not restricted

19:44but tend to be limited to more normal business hours. I'm up the opinion that a medical office in

19:54terms of the comings and goings to the site and the traffic associated with that would be more

20:00compatible with the permitted use like a takeout restaurant or a personal service establishment.

20:08While I respect planning staff's objections I feel like they and then I'm certainly sympathetic

20:16to some of the concerns that have been raised by neighboring property owners. I feel that

20:24planning staff's comments are I would say overly cautious regarding anticipated impacts

20:31and I respectfully submit that a medical office is similar enough or is similar to the permitted

20:38uses by the existing zoning both under the previous and the new zoning bylaw. Thank you very much.

20:47Thank you very much for your brevity and your information. I'm going to ask at this point

20:54if there are any questions. Yes, Member Goodvillain. Thank you Chair. So through the Chair to

21:07the applicant I'm interested to kind of understand what type of professionals the applicant is

21:13considering would be part of the practice that would be in place at the establishment.

21:20My comment or my question relates to the difference between a medical office and a medical clinic

21:27and whether or not both are necessary to include as uses for that site.

21:39So through you Mr. Chair first of all the reason both of those are included is because the new

21:44zoning bylaw does not consider them to be separate uses therefore medical clinic simply

21:49reflects the wording used in the new zoning bylaw. For a medical office I would imagine

21:57but from experience a medical office with one or two practitioners would involve the practitioners

22:04themselves a registered nurse or a registered nurse practitioner as well as somebody to do

22:11file management and reception activities. So for possibly five employees

22:20sort of two practitioners a nurse practitioner and one likely admin staff

22:30that is the level of use that we're talking about for a property this size and for a building this

22:34size. Okay through the Chair thank you to the applicant. I have a follow-up question I think

22:45though through the Chair to City staff. The difference in the language between the 1995

22:54and the 2023 bylaw I understand that the 2023 has not been formally approved at this point but

23:01we should still be considering that language. Could City staff comment on the distinction

23:07in the language between the 1995 version and the current version related to medical office

23:15medical clinic? I read the comments and I did appreciate the level of detail in there but I

23:21think I was still not entirely clear whether both or one or the other should be approved in this

23:29circumstance. So through the Chair to Member Goodfellow the 1995 zoning bylaw has defines

23:39both a medical office and a medical clinic so the medical office in the 95 bylaw allows two or

23:45fewer practitioners and a medical clinic would be three or more practitioners

23:50and looking at it in terms of the 1995 zoning bylaw a medical office in terms of parking

23:58requirements which would be two or fewer would be seven per practitioner but when you're looking at

24:02a medical clinic under the 95 bylaw it would be six per practitioner so essentially a medical

24:09clinic doesn't limit the number of practitioners so you could essentially have like three or more

24:15which automatically would require 18 as per the old zoning bylaw and then our new zoning bylaw the

24:232023 bylaw which is currently under appeal combines doesn't distinguish between clinic and office it

24:30just calls it a medical clinic and it has a new parking rate however it also doesn't cap the number

24:35of medical professionals in the clinic so there could be a number of them with a number of

24:43a number of patients coming in and out of the property, admin staff, nurses, everything like

24:51that that's why staff are concerned with the office you sorry the medical both the medical

24:56office and medical clinic uses because they have a broad range of medical professionals that could

25:02be could go in there with a varying number of clients. Thank you I appreciate that clarification

25:13I guess a follow-up question then on the if the current bylaw has a more broad definition

25:22that could allow a larger number of practitioners is there an opportunity to cap the number of

25:28practitioners that would be appropriate at a site of this size under the new bylaw?

25:38Through the chair to member good fellow committee could cap the number of practitioners if

25:43they wanted to I think from my professional and use opinion a medical whether it's a medical

25:50office or a medical clinic or medical clinic in the new bylaw I think that type of use is not

25:57suitable for a property that I don't think it meets the test of being more similar or compatible

26:03and I understand that is somewhat objective but looking at the permitted uses and existing

26:10legal non-conforming uses I think a medical office slash clinic as a different type of

26:16use to the property that's not really what's intended for the property and it's it's hard to

26:21say whether or not the existing parking spaces could accommodate the extra uses.

26:29Okay thank you again I think I am looking at this to understand

26:35um

26:37you know looking at this as an extension of the current use and considering

26:43whether the request for a minor variance is an extension of what would be approved under the

26:50new bylaw so yeah thank you that clarification is very helpful I appreciate that thank you.

27:00We have any other questions at this point?

27:03Member Spears. Through you to City staff would a condition about the fence at the back it seemed

27:11to me that in the in the comments from neighbors having that boundary and protection from snow

27:16plowing and stuff would make a very big difference locally would it would it make any difference if

27:22that condition were added to the to the proposal in terms of accepting it. Through the chair to

27:30members Spears if committee wants to add that condition they they can I think it would help

27:37in terms of addressing the neighbors comments however I still think that the uses that are

27:41requested are really intensifying the property beyond what is under 40 section 452 of the planning

27:48act I don't I don't think in my professional opinion it's the uses requested are similar or

27:53more compatible I don't think it meets that test but if if committee feels that adding some conditions

27:58would satisfy that and meet the test then you you can add whatever conditions you do you appropriate.

28:06Thank you. Any other questions? Yes Ambassador Spears. Yes through the chair to City staff I noted

28:22in the applicants cover letter there's a you know quite a discussion on on the parking

28:30requirements and there's a note that under the new zoning bylaw medical clinic would be

28:35required to provide five parking spaces for each hundred square meters gross floor area

28:40gross floor area is 290 meters squared so they'd be able to provide 15 spaces so would you would

28:48you agree with that? So through the chair to members there I would agree the requirement would be 15

28:5815 parking spaces the applicant did provide a revised concept plan that shows parking

29:09whether the existing parking lot has legal non-compliant status so whether or not all the

29:14parking spaces would meet today's standards in terms of like buffers and landscaping and everything

29:20else it's it's not clear and in terms of like meeting our development engineering manual in

29:28terms of like ingress and egress but the requirement would be 15 spaces for a medical clinic under

29:36the new zoning bylaw based on the size of the building so I still think adding a medical clinic

29:43use is really intensifying the property and that doesn't it's not clear whether a medical clinic

29:50would be any of the it's not clear if any of the legal non-conforming uses would remain or if it

29:56would be for only a portion of the building or if the applicant would come forward and and actually

30:01want to introduce any of the permitted uses on the property in combination with the medical clinic so

30:09but like I said I still think that the medical clinic use intensifies the property beyond what's

30:16reasonable just to follow up through the chair to staff so if if you know hypothetically we were

30:30to approve the application that medical clinic be added and then the subsequently the applicant

30:42did want to put a medical clinic in there I assume they'd still be required to come back to us for a

30:48minor variance to to address any concerns with parking at that point through the chair to member

31:01say no if the committee approves the use to date then you would essentially be approving it saying

31:07that you feel that there's sufficient parking on the on the site thank you member good fellow

31:17yes through the chair to the applicant I guess how married is the applicant to the idea of having

31:25specifically a use specific to medical office medical clinic added through this minor variance

31:32application so if I understand correctly the question is simply how essential is it to the

31:41applicant that medical office medical clinic be included on that on that list of potential uses

31:53um through you mr. chair is it all right if I ask the applicant to to speak to that particular point

32:00yes that that would be appropriate certainly thank you welcome can you state your name for the record

32:13please in a mkrary speaking it's working great um the challenge we've had with this property is

32:24being able to find the suitable tenant under the current zoning the property has been vacant for

32:29almost a year because the current zoning is really very limiting to potential terms we have

32:35all it's a high-profile property it's in a major route it's not a very big building but it's

32:40a suitable it's a perfect size building for certain kind of business such as medical applications

32:45we've actually had multiple consults with the city staff at least a couple where we discussed

32:49what are their recommendation to the best potential variety of options that we can have that we can

32:56actually have a suitable tenant for this property we are now paying taxes we cannot

33:01rent the space and it's also in a wonderful neighborhood I think having the right kind

33:06of tenant will really bring more positivity than having a vacant building when we discussed with the

33:12staff it was sort of a back and forth conversation decide what are the options we came down to

33:17options that we recommended today based on meeting most of the requirement of city staff

33:23and also expanding the possibility of tenants that we could potentially have

33:26that would fit the size of the building when I think about what's currently approved and possible

33:32the impact on the neighborhood is actually much worse than the options we're asking for

33:37can I just interrupt for a moment that's okay I'd like to have you focus on member good

33:45fellows question which is uh is medical use one of the options that we feel is the most suitable

33:55for the property because of the size of the building and because of the fact that in our

34:01opinion apart from certain parking parameters that are in the new requirements and the concern of the

34:07city staff is it's really the most um the most comprehensive better use of a building of that

34:14size and also we looked at potential tenants that have asked us for leasing the property there's a

34:21lot of tenants that would fall within that category that's why we kind of chose it in that in the

34:25multiple options that we have and thank you I appreciate that clarification thank you very much

34:35are there any other questions from my colleagues and we seem to have lost member Klein

34:47I don't see her on the screen no okay just wanted to make sure that you didn't have any

34:58questions member Klein I do have a question and that is concerning if my colleagues are done

35:09and that is the number of parking spaces that are provided at the present time

35:16can you answer that for me please um the the number of parking spaces at the present time I

35:24I was there today I remember correctly off the top of my head it's around 18 or 19

35:30however the configuration of those parking spaces

35:36extend beyond the technical boundaries of the property and therefore

35:40can't be counted as parking spaces for the purposes of zoning which is why on the minor

35:46variance sketch as revised we have shown angled parking spaces just because of the placement

35:50of the building with respect to the Oriole Crescent street line doesn't allow enough space for

35:5690 degree parking spaces as are currently on site and this question is a follow-up to staff

36:07it it sounds to me that your professional opinion earlier was that given some of the

36:18perspective uses medical being one of them that this wouldn't meet the the parking requirements

36:26am I am I clear on that so to the chair it wouldn't meet the parking requirements under

36:33our current bylaw the 1995 bylaw so the way they applied for one a medical office and two a medical

36:39clinic if they were doing a medical clinic with three or more practitioners under the 95 bylaw

36:45it's six per practitioner so if they were taking up if they if they had even three it would require

36:5118 spaces the new bylaw looks at parking a little bit differently but under the the way the variance

37:00had to be applied to both the 95 and the 2023 bylaw so they wouldn't meet the requirements for parking

37:07if it was a medical clinic and a follow-up on use I'm wondering if it's within our ability to cap

37:17the number of medical professionals in a particular business regardless if it's under the old

37:24zoning bylaw or the new could we cap it at a number that would both respect the parking

37:32requirements and allow for medical use to the chair you you could do that if you feel it was

37:42appropriate if you think that's an appropriate condition to add to both the to the variance for

37:50the 95 and the 2023 I think you just would need to be specific in terms of number practitioners

37:59and I guess I'm looking for a little bit of professional guidance here

38:04is that something that staff in their professional capacity could support if we were to cap this

38:10it's a two medical professionals to the chair I think my my professional opinion hasn't changed I

38:18think a medical whether it's a medical office or a medical clinic I evaluated it under both the 95

38:23bylaw and 2023 bylaw and knowing that the medical office is two or fewer practitioners I think it

38:30still really is intensifying the property beyond what is really contemplated under the convenience

38:37commercial zone I understand that the property owner may want feels that the uses are limited but

38:44if the property owner feels their uses are limited it would most likely be more appropriately

38:49addressed through an official plan amendment and zoning bylaw amendment to expand the number of uses

38:56thank you very much I do appreciate that advice turn to my colleagues if there's any more questions

39:03seeing none I'm going to ask if there's anyone present who would like to address this issue

39:11seeing no one secretary treasure do we have anyone online chair Smith we haven't received any

39:18delegation requests thank you very much at this point I'll turn to my colleagues looking for

39:25advice on how we wish to proceed do we wish to have a vote at this or pardon me and a motion at

39:34this point through you to to mr. through you mr. chair I'd like to propose that we accept the

39:42application with the condition that a back fence be built and and I'm I'm I'm really leery about

39:48adding a condition on the number of practitioners because I can think of so many cases where it

39:53wouldn't make any sense I mean if it was two massage therapists who would be considered practitioners

39:57who would see two patients an hour it just

40:00wouldn't make any sense. So I would prefer to leave that out. And in fact, having seen

40:05the site and seen the number of parking spaces, I feel very comfortable for this, the use

40:09that's being requested. And I just think if we just add the back fence to satisfy the

40:14neighbor, I would propose that we accept this, this application.

40:19Okay, I'm going to take that as a motion. I see Ms. Panser raising her hand furiously.

40:32May I ask for her comment? Yeah, through the chair and to the members, I just want to clarify

40:38just something that Member Spears just said, that a registered massage therapist is actually

40:44in the service establishment use and it is permitted on the site. That that is the one

40:52type of practitioner that maybe would got mixed in with the rest of the medical uses.

40:57And also, if there is a fence condition, I would just like it to be insured that's outside.

41:03The bylaw requires this, it doesn't need to be added to the condition, but just for everyone

41:07to be aware, it just needs to be outside of the sight line triangle as the neighbor on

41:12Oriole Crescent, their driveway is just adjacent to that property in parking lot.

41:16Thank you. Thank you for the clarification. So we do have a motion that's put forward with

41:24an additional condition. Do I have a seconder? I do see a seconder. Member Spears. At this point,

41:36I'll entertain comment on the motion in front of us from my colleagues.

41:45Do I have any discussion? Member Goodfellow. I'm very thoughtful about through the chair,

41:53but I'm very thoughtful about the idea of the permitted uses already allowing for other types

42:00of medical practitioners, perhaps not medical in the sense of a licensed MD,

42:09but other types of practitioners and being able to use that property.

42:16I do also though hear what the staff is saying around the intensification of the property

42:24and wanting to be careful about over intensifying the site. And so for that reason, I would vote to

42:32oppose to the current motion as it's presented and would instead prefer to see a cap on the medical

42:39practitioners at the site instead. Thank you. Do we have any more discussion?

42:48Through you, Mr. Chair, to Member Goodfellow. I could go either way. I would like to see this approved.

42:55And if the condition is about capping the number of practitioners fine, if we can come up with a number,

43:02if we said the number three, I think that we then it's maybe too many. I don't know if it is or not,

43:08but if we did say capped at three or less, if that covers our concerns, I suggest we could

43:15change the condition. I'd actually like to leave the fence condition in because I think it's important

43:19to the neighborhood, but I'm fine with adding it for the condition. So go ahead. Through the chair,

43:27to Member Spears. Yes, I think that's more what I was contemplating was that leaving the fence condition

43:34and then there is already a permitted use allowing for other types of practitioners and then just

43:42capping the medical practitioners to two or more. I think the number, I would be comfortable with three

43:50as well. So two or three. Yeah, I just, oh, sorry. I'd agree with a cap of three. Yeah.

44:02So I think at this point, what we're doing is we're changing the definition of the motion in front

44:09of us. So I would turn to the mover and say, do you want to withdraw and reformat that motion?

44:16I'm happy to withdraw my motion. Could you rephrase that, Member Goodfellow? You seem quite good at that.

44:22Thanks. Certainly, I will give it a shot. So I move to approve the application with two

44:30additional conditions. One being the addition of a fence on the property line to improve privacy,

44:36and the second to cap the number of medical practitioners to three.

44:45Do I have a seconder? Member Spears. Okay, at this point, we can enter into more discussion.

44:52If that's appropriate, do I have any additional comment? Seeing none, I am going to weigh in and

45:01say I have tried to wrap my head around this a little bit, and I'm afraid that I will not be

45:11supporting this. I tend to agree with professional staff. This is over intensification, and I won't

45:17be supporting it, but as I don't think it's minor in nature, it's, and that's how I'm going to vote.

45:25At this point, I'll call the question and turn it over to our Secretary Tresher.

45:33Thank you, Chair. Committee members, please indicate your vote by responding in favor or

45:38opposed to the motion, and the motion is to approve the application subject to

45:44two conditions recommended by Member Goodfellow, that a fence be constructed along the rear property

45:49line as well as capping the number of medical practitioners at three. Chair Smith. Opposed.

46:00Member Klein. In favor. Thank you, Member Goodfellow. In favor. Member Hamilton. In favor.

46:11Member Pike. Opposed. Member Seher. In favor. And Member Spears. In favor. That's Carried-Cher.

46:23Your application has been approved. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. You're welcome. You're free

46:28to leave the hearing. Madam Secretary Tresher, may we have the next applicant? And Chair Smith,

46:42just a point of clarification before we go on to the next application. I did want to give an

46:47opportunity for Member Klein. I think we may have missed her voting, and I just wanted to confirm

46:53for 5 Nicholas, that was the application that was deferred. I just wanted to confirm if she was

47:02in favor of that deferral or not. Yes, I'm in favor of that. Okay. Thank you, Member Klein.

47:09I apologize if we missed you in that voting. Thank you. The next application is file A-31-23,

47:27Variants to Permit Additional Use, Agriculture Vegetation Based at 80 Regal Road. I'll note

47:34for those attending online, if you wish to speak to this application, you can do so by calling

47:38the number on the screen. That number is 519-822-1260, extension 2524. And I see an applicant at the

47:51microphone. Can you state your name and your relationship to the application? Good afternoon.

47:58My name is Jacob Goldfarb. I'm the owner of Goldfarb Canada. We recently leased the subject

48:04property. Thank you. And can you tell me if the sign was posted as per the planning act?

48:12Yes, the sign was posted. Well, thank you. You have 10 minutes to address the committee.

48:20Thank you. I see in the notes for the meeting that it was conditionally approved, so I would

48:26turn it over to the committee if anybody had any questions or anything for me based on the drawings

48:33or any other concerns. Thank you. Well, that's concise. Thank you. And I'll turn to my colleagues

48:41if they have any questions. Yes, Member Spears. Through you, Mr. Chair, I visited the property and

48:49I drove behind and I noted very strong smells of solvents. And I saw a lot of machine shops and

48:57people doing painting. And I'm not sure if it's in the sphere of this. Honestly, if it's in the

49:03sphere of the committee or not. But I wonder if food production is really compatible with the other

49:08uses in that place. And how, if so, how you'd make sure that your food doesn't get contaminated?

49:16Through the chair, to Member Spears. Thank you for your question.

49:19Having environmental control within the building is crucial for us. So once our systems are built

49:31and up and running, there's essentially very minimal in and out from the building other than

49:39through the front of the building. I know there's a large, I'm not exactly sure what they are

49:45directly behind the building. But that access will be very minimal. And we also are taking a lot of

49:56steps to ensure there's excellent ventilation in the space. We're installing HVAC and exhaust fans

50:04along with oscillating wall mounted fans. So air movement is really crucial to ensure there's

50:11no mold or contaminants on the products. So those are the steps that we're going to be taking.

50:16Thank you. Thanks for that answer to my question. I do have a question for staff.

50:28Does, and perhaps it's more curiosity than the application, but does this increase the

50:36hazard index of the building? And would that be something that would be addressed at?

50:43Building permit. Yep, to the chair. That would be addressed at the building permit stage.

50:50Thank you. At this point, I'm going to ask if there are any members of the audience who wish

50:59to address this issue. Seeing none, are there any online? Chair Smith, I can confirm no delegation

51:07requests. Thank you. At this point, we'll entertain a motion. Member Sayers.

51:18I'd move to approve the application. And we have a seconder. Member Hamilton.

51:26Any discussion? Seeing none, I'll call the question. Member, secretary treasurer,

51:34if you could conduct the vote, please. Thank you, chair committee members. Please indicate

51:41your vote on the motion, which is to approve the application. Chair Smith. In favor. Member Klein.

51:50In favor. Member Goodfellow. In favor. Member Hamilton. In favor. Member Pike. In favor.

51:59Member Seher. In favor. And member Spears. In favor. That's carried, chair.

52:06Thank you. Your application has been approved. You're free to leave. Thank you very much. You're

52:10welcome. Madam secretary treasurer, may we have the next application? The next application is file

52:26A-32 slash 23, variances to permit additional use, license establishment with outdoor patio,

52:34and reduced setbacks, increased capacity and permit location for proposed outdoor patio

52:39at 60 Ontario Street. I'll also note for the committee, as well as those attending,

52:45that we did receive multiple pieces of correspondence in regards to this application

52:49after the correspondence deadline. And those pieces of correspondence have been circulated

52:54to the committee members and the applicant. And if you are wishing to speak to this application

53:00and you're watching the hearing online, you can do so by calling the number shown on the screen.

53:04That number is 519-822-1260, extension 2524. Is the applicant present? Welcome.

53:20If you can state your name and your relationship to the application for the record, please.

53:27Hey, Mr. Chair. My name is Hugh Handy and I'm Vice President of GSP Group,

53:34and I'm here on behalf of the applicant, what are your holdings? I also have Mike Watt with me,

53:40Mr. Chair, with your indulgence. I would say we could make a joint

53:44delegation before the committee, if that's, and then be able to answer questions.

53:50That would be appropriate. Certainly, can I ask you before we move on, if the sign was posted as

53:56for the planning? Yes, Mr. Chair, it was posted. Thank you. You have 10 minutes to address the committee.

54:02Thank you very much. Again, my name is Hugh Handy and I'm a registered professional planner here on

54:08behalf of the applicant, what are your holdings? The application before you this evening is about

54:14a shared patio space for three users at the property. Mr. Handy, can I just ask you to

54:22adjust your microphone a little bit? That's awesome. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. I'll get a little bit closer.

54:28Again, we're here this evening, Mike and I, to address the committee, to talk about really a

54:35shared patio space for three users on the property. We believe it's a reasonable land use request that

54:43for this seasonal patio space and we'll support these three small businesses, the art gallery,

54:52the rainbow cafe and standing room only, which is the bar on the property. You have a positive

54:59staff report with conditions before you today that we've reviewed. We recognize that there is a

55:05considerable number of letters, both in opposition and in support. Any land use decision is about

55:12balancing and considering all aspects of the development. Change is never easy and that is

55:20that's what the public process is for, to understand those impacts and as well review those impacts.

55:26We believe that this is an overall positive change and provides a dynamic that will increase

55:35and support those uses on the property. With that, I'd ask Mike Watt to come forward

55:43as well to make some comments. Welcome. Can you state your name for the record?

55:54Michael Watt. Go ahead, please. Thank you. I just made, I add that this is part of your 10-minute

56:01presentation. Sure. Ladies and gentlemen of the committee, my name is Michael Watt. I'm the owner

56:06of Wattier Holdings and the building at 60 Ontario Street and I'm the landlord of the three micro

56:11businesses at this location. When I acquired this building during the pandemic lockdown in October

56:172020 from Thomas Bradburns estate, I was uncertain about its future purpose. However,

56:24as I began cleaning and updating the space, I was approached by several entrepreneurs with

56:29various ideas. One such individual was Kim England, who now operates the Double Rainbow Cafe.

56:36Kim's commitment to the community is exemplary. She has not only created a special place for

56:41residents but has also given back through initiatives like her pay what you can Wednesdays

56:47where individuals of varying means can enjoy a wholesome meal. Additionally, Kim is actively

56:54involved in supporting local events such as the Ward Night Market and is helping James Gordon

56:59organize a one-day music festival. She also supports Laza Foods, a local small business on

57:04Ontario Street by selling their all-natural beverages and ice pops. Kim represents the

57:08essence of a micro business that punches above its weight and brings positive change to our community.

57:15When I asked her the other day how a patio would help her business,

57:18her response was, it would be life-changing. That really struck a chord with me. Granting her the

57:24opportunity to have a beautiful patio will not only enhance her business but also allow her to

57:29serve and uplift the community. I'd like to share with you my experience in dealing with other

57:35entrepreneurs who expressed an interest in the space. While I initially obtained approval

57:40from the Committee of Adjustments for a convenience store and a barber shop,

57:43circumstances changed and those plans fell through. The convenience store opened down the

57:49road at York and Ontario and is thriving today and one of the barbers took a space downtown and the

57:54other one stayed where he was. Although leasing the space to a garage for an auto body shop would

57:59have been the easiest choice, I felt I could do something better that would benefit the community,

58:04something that would truly make a difference. When Ross and Sheena Lalani Jennings proposed

58:10opening an art gallery where the convenience store was to go, I thought it was an excellent idea.

58:16Ross and Sheena embarked on this venture just prior to having their first child

58:20and they've poured their hearts into this business. Not only did we receive approval for the art gallery

58:26and the bar but our next door neighbor who initially opposed the convenience store expressed

58:31satisfaction that this was a quieter and more upscale use. The art gallery presents a rotating

58:38exhibition every four to six weeks featuring different artists. They have expressed to me

58:43that they would welcome the opportunity to host their openings on the patio during summer months.

58:48They have also said that they would consider extending their gallery hours

58:52on certain evenings with the increased traffic. The little bar that goes by the name of standing

58:57room only is Canada's smallest bar. I applied for a change of use concurrently with the art gallery

59:03after I lost the convenience store and two barbers for tenants. As a small financial

59:07partner in the little bar I can confidently say that it is a true work of art meticulously built

59:13by Doug Todd the bar's owner operator. The bar has gained a loyal following of locals and visitors

59:19alike and its unique charm has garnered praise from customers and neighbors. Doug is the visionary

59:25enshroman for this little space and he has one other employee. It is truly an experience. Doug

59:31has built a great relationship with the Sleeman family's spring mill distillery just up the road

59:36supporting their products and selling them in the bar. The staff at spring mill have also

59:40been very supportive of standing room only. We have always prioritized being a good neighbor

59:45and as such we proposed limited operating hours when applying for the liquor license.

59:49The intention behind this patio proposal extends beyond benefiting the three micro businesses

59:55involved. It's about creating a shared space that fosters unity and a sense of belonging for all

1:00:01residents. Our neighborhood has experienced many recent developments including metal works,

1:00:07Alice block, Biltmore towns, the tri-car buildings and lens mill next door and as a result we've

1:00:13experienced increased foot traffic with people out for walks walking their dogs riding their bikes.

1:00:19This influx of new residents has now become an important part of the fabric of this community.

1:00:26Yet there are very limited options for residents to walk to where they can stop and enjoy a coffee

1:00:31or a drink or meet up with friends. The central location of this property and the proposed patio

1:00:38would serve as a gathering place, a hub where neighbors can meet, socialize and enjoy the

1:00:43beauty of the neighborhood together. I feel confident that the three business owners will

1:00:48work tirelessly together to ensure that the patio and activities will not only compliment each other's

1:00:54businesses but will also compliment the existing character and aesthetic of the neighborhood.

1:01:00The character of the neighborhood is a valid consideration. I understand that residents

1:01:04cherish the unique charm and atmosphere that our community possesses. The intention is not to change

1:01:11the character but rather to enhance it by creating a small space that fosters connection and camaraderie.

1:01:18I would like to summarize by commending city staff on supporting this proposal.

1:01:23The city often gets criticized for not embracing change or supporting small business but in this

1:01:28case I can say that their support has been overwhelming. I would like to ask the committee

1:01:34to follow the staff recommendations and vote in favor of this neighborhood patio. Thank you.

1:01:42Thank you. You have a little over a minute to go so well done.

1:01:45If you want to pause for a moment I'll ask my colleagues if they have any questions.

1:01:59Member Goodfellow. I didn't want to be first every time tonight but anyway here we are.

1:02:06I didn't say a word. Thank you. Through the chair to the applicant. I noted some of the

1:02:14neighbors' concerns around parking and I have to say I was there earlier today and I did note that

1:02:20someone pulled up and parked right into that triangle. Can you talk to me a little bit about

1:02:26how that is going to work in terms of the neighborhood? They're relatively small streets.

1:02:32There isn't a nearby parking lot. You commented that people would be walking there but you are

1:02:38drawing from other areas of the city so could you talk a bit just about the parking in general and

1:02:43your perspective on that? We'll wrestle for the microphone. Thank you through you Mr. Chair to

1:02:52the member. There is on-street parking available. We recognize to your point it's smaller streets

1:03:02but the intent is to obviously draw in the neighborhood as well. I was there this morning.

1:03:08I live in the south end so I did drive but I noticed people walking to the coffee shop this

1:03:14morning and really enjoying that space. I think there hopefully would be a good balance of all

1:03:21of that in relation to the site. It was approved with no on-site parking requirement because it was

1:03:31I think there's not a lot of overlap between and these are micro businesses like 150 square feet,

1:03:37300 square feet and in our gallery does not have more than typically one or two people at a time.

1:03:43So the parking requirements are really quite small and it was approved with no on-site parking

1:03:52requirement which doesn't mean on-site parking is not allowed and with a patio there would certainly

1:03:59be no on-site parking. So through the chair thank you for those clarifications it's really helpful

1:04:06and I think one of the questions I was trying to think through was so in the summertime there

1:04:12would be no opportunity for people to park in that area but in the winter is the intent to

1:04:18remove the patio entirely or keep some of the infrastructure there? No it would stay as a

1:04:24permanent structure. Okay that's very helpful thank you. Any more questions? Member Sayer?

1:04:35Yeah through the chair to the applicant I just wanted to get clarification kind of around numbers so

1:04:42the I understand the art gallery and of course the SRO bar are licensed so is there a

1:04:50licensed capacity for each of those businesses and if so what's the capacity? And the capacity for

1:04:58each of them is 10 and the limiting factor is washrooms. Right yeah I saw in some of the comments

1:05:06so the overall limiting factor is maximum of 30 people based on the building code.

1:05:13That's yeah that's correct okay thank you. And just follow up question through the chair to

1:05:22to the applicant. Yeah just just kind of getting to I guess just questions I had and you know

1:05:31Mr. Handy at the outset you know you mentioned there was you know your cognizant of concerns from

1:05:37some people in the neighborhood around you know potential for increased noise or traffic so

1:05:46you know are you you know are you amenable to limitations for example on the number of people

1:05:54on the patio or how late the patio was open until? Yes definitely I think the the city has

1:06:03recommended a maximum of 20 which would be four or five tables which is far more than enough

1:06:11that's that's that's plenty and I'm happy with that limitation and I think the three businesses

1:06:16would be quite fine with that as well. Okay and and the hours as well yes okay I think the city

1:06:22has recommended 11 p.m. which coincides with the city's noise by-law and I'm amenable to that as well.

1:06:31Okay would you would you be amenable to like 10 or 10 p.m.? Yeah we talked about that and

1:06:40certainly I think 10 p.m. would be acceptable certainly on a Sunday to a Thursday but I would

1:06:49I would ask that perhaps 11 might be considered for a Friday and a Saturday. Okay

1:07:00just one last question through the chair and in turn would there be any intention to like have

1:07:07like live music on the patio or taped music or would people essentially just be bringing out

1:07:14their beverages out to have a chat? Yes mainly that I would think there might be some small

1:07:24speakers okay for some some background music but certainly nothing that would contravene a noise

1:07:30by-law or be loud or go later than 10 or 11 o'clock okay and live bands they're I I could

1:07:39certainly probably guarantee that there would not be any amplified rock bands or anything like that

1:07:45playing there. Yeah I don't think there'd be much room anyway. No it's small. Okay thank you. Remember

1:07:53good fellow. Through the chair I have a follow-up question for the applicant. The number of washrooms

1:08:00I think you said supported 30 maximum if we add to 20 more spaces on the patio that is 50 if I'm

1:08:09understanding the numbers correctly do you have washroom capacity for 50 in your establishment?

1:08:16No there would be it would be a maximum of 30 of for the total building on the patio and inside.

1:08:24Okay wonderful thank you that helps me out. Any other questions? Thank you very much for your

1:08:33presentation. As I see there are many people who may wish to speak to this so please make yourself

1:08:40available if that opportunity arises thank you very much. Absolutely thank you. At this point I

1:08:48will turn to the audience and see if there is anyone who would like to address it is there are

1:08:55there any members of the audience who would like to address this issue. Please come forward. Good

1:09:22afternoon can you state your name for the record please? Yes my name is Ron. Can you move to the

1:09:26microphone? Thank you. This is all strange. It isn't intimidating and we'll try and be as gentle as

1:09:34possible. Okay my name is Ron Rambo. I own the property at 61 Ontario Street okay right across

1:09:43the road okay. Now unfortunately I sent a letter in but I didn't get it there in time this was

1:09:50I think yesterday morning but somebody from the city did acknowledge my letter okay. Now

1:09:58I lived in this house since 1992. I have seen Tom Bradburn was a wonderful guy

1:10:07but it wasn't the nicest way of looking at the property okay. I guess getting down to the

1:10:16nitty-gritty I have supported this project from the beginning. I think it's a great addition to

1:10:23the neighborhood. I don't have any issues with what's going on right now as long as they're not

1:10:31going to run this thing all night I have no objections. My bedroom is a matter of fact

1:10:37faces the patio in that spot so I haven't heard anything about excess noise I haven't heard any

1:10:46noise coming that isn't you know normal from whatever is taking place so I would just like to

1:10:54say I would like to support the application for the patio. Has anybody got any questions of me or

1:11:04thank you. If you want to wait right there yeah I'll see if my colleagues would like to ask you

1:11:08any questions. Members I see no questions thank you very much for coming by that didn't hurt a bit.

1:11:16Thank you I'll ask if there is anyone else in the audience that would like to speak please come

1:11:23forward. Did you want to come forward and address the committee? Good evening do you want to state

1:11:53your name for the record please. My name is Cassie Jennings. You have 10 minutes.

1:12:01Good afternoon chair and committee of adjustment members. I have never stood before you but today

1:12:08I implore you to listen to those of us who live in the immediate vicinity of standing room only

1:12:14at 60 Ontario street. I fundamentally disagree with this application and although it now looks as if

1:12:22staff have presented this application in a way that it is all about bylaws and variances this is

1:12:29really about power and steamrolling the neighbors. When this business opened and double rainbow and

1:12:37Lelani Jennings art gallery opened I was looking at the change positively but with some skepticism.

1:12:45I knew the owners got caught starting this redo of the building without a building permit

1:12:51but after living on the street for over 35 years I welcomed the change of paint and new coach lights

1:12:59on the building. The cafe has been good for the neighborhood. I have seen families with children

1:13:06seniors young people all getting coffee and breakfast and using it as a place to meet.

1:13:12This is what it was meant for however the art gallery seems to be closed with empty beer cans

1:13:19sitting on the front desk and no sign of business taking place. The bar has parked customer and owner

1:13:27cars on the lot and they are not zoned to do so. They had previously asked for a license patio last

1:13:36year and they were told no. They are now being offered a self-monitoring of the number of patrons

1:13:42on the patio due to washroom restrictions however neighbors have seen customers urinating outside

1:13:50of the establishment. My next concern along with many others is that the owners of what's

1:13:56here holdings will take over the entire building turning it into a larger bar. This is my gut feeling

1:14:04but I'm not alone in this concern. There have been 12 letters sent to you asking you to deny this

1:14:12application. The two letters in favor of this application before last night let's say are from

1:14:20someone who wants to be able to have a concert there and the other is from someone who does not

1:14:25live in the neighborhood. I am very impressed with all the neighbors who took the time to write letters

1:14:32to you with exact details of why this application should be denied. My own letter asking for a

1:14:39denial suggests that this application and its variants should be a zoning change. Their ask

1:14:47is not minor in nature and it is certainly not fair to those of us who live within a stone's

1:14:53throw of the building. Please consider keeping the bar the size it is and let the owner find

1:15:01other ways to conduct business. I do not want a license patio near me and certainly not by these

1:15:08owners. Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you. Do you want to wait there and see if

1:15:15there are any questions from my colleagues? Seeing none I do have a couple of questions

1:15:24and therefore some of the issues you've raised to city staff. First of all the question of on-site

1:15:33parking has been raised and my understanding is that this was a and I voted for it. This was approved

1:15:43without on-site parking but that did not preclude people parking in the in the triangle. Is that

1:15:51my understanding staff? To the chair a previous minor variance did permit

1:16:06the site to have a zero parking requirement. That is because a parking space meeting the

1:16:14bylaw requirements can't legally meet all the requirements. That being said there is no parking

1:16:24permitted under the zoning bylaw in the site line triangle. So there have been complaints for that

1:16:31and the owner has been made aware to please remove any parking from the site line triangle.

1:16:37Thank you for that clarification and I do recall when this came before us before that there were

1:16:46planters that I see in place that have prevented people from driving through the triangle but

1:16:55I wasn't clear and this neighbor has raised the same issue if it was allowable that people park

1:17:04there and from what you're saying they're not supposed to be parking there at the present time.

1:17:11To the chair there was nothing to restrict parking within the property limits as long as it was not

1:17:18within the site line triangle. The planters were placed to ensure that the drive-through cut through

1:17:24traffic would not happen and that was also the side of the street with the sidewalk on it. So

1:17:30the planters were placed along there as a safety concern for the pedestrian pathway.

1:17:37And I just will note that they're also under the height the 1 0.8 meter height of the site line

1:17:46triangle requirement as well. You can have structures fences hedges up to 0.8 meters within

1:17:53the site line triangle. Now this property is a triangle so I don't want that to be confused. The

1:17:59site line triangle is a measurement taken from the tip of the triangle back to form a site line

1:18:05at an intersection and which is partially on the property and part of the property is also

1:18:13out of the parking lot is outside of the site line triangle. Thank you. I'm going to ask the

1:18:21delegate if they understand what city staff is explaining at this point that there's nothing

1:18:30to preclude someone from parking but within the site line triangle you're not allowed to park and

1:18:38that is up to bylaw. Yes I do understand that and there are multiple parking issues

1:18:49for these businesses. I can certainly address them. Thank you. This again is to staff

1:18:58based on the comments and it was questioned whether or not staff could or pardon me the

1:19:05proponent at some time in the future could take over the full unit as a bar. Would that have to

1:19:14come back to us if that were the case? To the chair so the previous approval that was done in 2022

1:19:26committee imposed a condition that the licensed establishment be restricted to a maximum of

1:19:3120 square meters. Since through this variance application they are essentially reapplying for

1:19:39the use because you can't vary a condition and one of the previous conditions was that an outdoor

1:19:44patio would not be permitted for the licensed establishment so I would maybe recommend that

1:19:53you include that one condition again just to be clear that the licensed establishment be

1:20:00restricted to a maximum of 20 square meters.

1:20:02I didn't actually, we didn't include that in our staff comments,

1:20:05but I think that might be an appropriate condition to add

1:20:07the previous condition from 2022,

1:20:09but the 20 square meters.

1:20:12Thank you, that's very helpful.

1:20:14Do we have any other questions of this delegate seeing none?

1:20:19I want to thank you very much for coming and speaking to us,

1:20:23appreciate your brevity and your interest.

1:20:28Do we have any other members?

1:20:30Please approach the microphone.

1:20:39Mr. Chair, thank you.

1:20:42Good afternoon.

1:20:42Can you state your name for the record please?

1:20:44Yes, first name Nick, second name Crane.

1:20:47Mr. Crane, can you go ahead and speak and you have 10 minutes.

1:20:52Thank you.

1:20:53So first, just want to say thanks.

1:20:56I really appreciate this process.

1:20:59I've lived in my neighborhood at 68 Toronto Street

1:21:03for about 28 years.

1:21:04I've seen a lot of change come and go.

1:21:08I've been in the position where public is consulted.

1:21:12I recall the skyline development,

1:21:16when that happened on York Road,

1:21:18I think it was 142 York Road,

1:21:22and it was approved for three stories

1:21:25and everything seemed to be okay.

1:21:27And then the building went up and the developers,

1:21:30they actually added the basement story was so far above ground

1:21:34that technically from my standpoint as a neighbor,

1:21:37it's actually four stories.

1:21:43These sorts of things, they have a way of squeaking through

1:21:46and people say one thing and they do another.

1:21:50But I deeply care about this neighborhood.

1:21:53There was a period where when my son was in the fourth grade,

1:21:56we would want to take him to the school bus

1:21:59and we would go past the building

1:22:01that used to be Hannah's appliances that you all know.

1:22:05And it was so overgrown with vines.

1:22:07It was being swallowed up with this weed vine.

1:22:11And I just kept shaking my head.

1:22:13My kids asked me, why is it like this?

1:22:15Well, I didn't really have an answer.

1:22:17So I got to the bottom of it.

1:22:19I found the owner and I concocted a plan.

1:22:23And I said, I can get a bunch of volunteers,

1:22:26I can get a bunch of free paint

1:22:28and let's put a mural on this thing.

1:22:30And all my neighbors, they believe that I put a mural on it

1:22:34because I'm an artist or I want to beautify something.

1:22:38But the actual truth of the matter was

1:22:40that was my only way to beautify this building

1:22:43and get permission from the owner.

1:22:45Is if I put my time into convincing this person,

1:22:50I can get free labor, we can clear the vines,

1:22:52we can paint a mural on this building.

1:22:54And that was my way, my small way

1:22:56of trying to beautify this neighborhood.

1:23:01I think what the applicant is doing is wonderful.

1:23:10And I also think it's imperfect.

1:23:14And I think that what I've seen as someone who lives

1:23:18in the neighborhood is, since they've opened,

1:23:25I think this is an opportunity.

1:23:26This is like, you know, this is the perfect venue.

1:23:29We're seeing actual community involvement.

1:23:33We're seeing upset neighbors for expressing themselves.

1:23:37And I kind of believe that the applicant

1:23:43and the collaborating owners have really good intentions

1:23:48and are taking in these notes

1:23:50and are going to behave accordingly.

1:23:53Because I think what's actually at the heart of it

1:23:55is that it's a social experiment.

1:23:57I think if Mike Watt was your typical business owner,

1:24:04he would have put a vaping shop or a weed dispensary.

1:24:08And we all like, we see so many of these in this town.

1:24:11I mean, if you ask me, I think the silliest idea

1:24:15for a business is a bar that's gonna hold eight people.

1:24:18Like how is this going to make money?

1:24:19Yet, here we are.

1:24:22So it is a social experiment.

1:24:24I've lived for many years beside a drug-addicted family.

1:24:31And it's been really, really hard.

1:24:33And this kind of activity happens

1:24:39when the community is not functioning,

1:24:41when people are not speaking to one another.

1:24:45So I view what's going on in this little hub

1:24:48is like a, it's a beautiful little desert island

1:24:52of activity that keeps people talking

1:24:56and bumping into each other.

1:24:57And I know sometimes people are gonna behave inappropriately

1:25:01because when you add alcohol, it's inevitable.

1:25:05But I also think that the developers

1:25:08have good intentions to try

1:25:11and do the things that they say they're gonna do.

1:25:14And I wouldn't say that lightly

1:25:16because I understand how much trouble went into

1:25:20changing the opening or something

1:25:21from the washroom.

1:25:23They had to like at the 11th hour

1:25:26reconfigure the washroom by an inch and a half

1:25:29or something, I can't remember the detail.

1:25:31And they went ahead and it was a big pain in the butt

1:25:34and it was a very expensive thing to do,

1:25:35but they went ahead and they did it

1:25:36because they want to try and do the right thing.

1:25:39And at the end of the day, if they do the wrong thing,

1:25:43the same voices that are supporting this type of activity

1:25:47will also boycott it.

1:25:49If they behave badly in my neighborhood,

1:25:53as many of my other neighbors will just stop attending

1:25:57and patronizing the business.

1:26:00And it will self-organize and it will go out of business.

1:26:05Anyway, I really appreciate the opportunity to address you.

1:26:11And I trust that there's wonderful imagination at work

1:26:15at this project.

1:26:16And I view it as something that

1:26:20when this committee is gone

1:26:25and when Mike Watt and his buddies age out,

1:26:29the actual thing that's left is going to be

1:26:33the network of community.

1:26:35So if that's what's being planted here,

1:26:38then I'm all for it.

1:26:39I just wanted to say that.

1:26:41Thank you very much.

1:26:43Thank you.

1:26:44If you want to wait there for a moment,

1:26:45I'll see if my colleagues have any questions for you.

1:26:48Sure.

1:26:53Seeing no questions,

1:26:56I want to thank you very much for your time and your insight.

1:26:59I appreciate it.

1:27:00Likewise, thank you.

1:27:03Do we have any other members present

1:27:06who would like to address?

1:27:07Yes, please come forward to the microphone

1:27:10and state your name for the record, please.

1:27:13Thank you.

1:27:14My name is Fred Tonan.

1:27:17Fred, you have 10 minutes to address the committee.

1:27:20Thank you.

1:27:21Chair Smith and committee members.

1:27:23My name is Fred Tonan

1:27:24and I live at 155 Ontario Street since 1993, almost 30 years.

1:27:30I understand the time limit for delegates is 10 minutes,

1:27:33but I would like to request a minor variance

1:27:36and be allowed 30.

1:27:38I think this is completely reasonable

1:27:39given that this is less of a variance

1:27:41than this applicant seeks,

1:27:44and it's only for one variance.

1:27:46How can anyone think permitting a 365 day a year

1:27:50outdoor nighttime party on a front yard

1:27:54in the middle of a residential neighborhood

1:27:57is anywhere close to a good idea?

1:27:59Even 11 o'clock has passed my bedtime

1:28:02as it is for a lot of families and people nearby.

1:28:05Who's going to voluntarily leave at 11,

1:28:08even if their drink is finished,

1:28:10but their conversation isn't?

1:28:13Golf's official plan has been made and revised

1:28:16with years of public input, I was there,

1:28:18to protect the residents

1:28:20and allow for compatible businesses

1:28:22to operate within residential neighborhoods.

1:28:26This application has drawn support

1:28:28for the official plan to be upheld

1:28:30and not allow for a destination attraction

1:28:33to spill over onto the streets

1:28:34of our low density residential neighborhood,

1:28:37a mixture of family structures and individual work patterns.

1:28:43Zoning requirements are in place

1:28:44for safety and compatibility reasons.

1:28:47I feel this application makes a mockery of these concerns

1:28:50because like the property owners

1:28:52and those same business owners,

1:28:54they don't value how they are impacting

1:28:56the other owners in the area.

1:28:58Namely, the residents that were here before they came

1:29:01and will persevere long after they leave.

1:29:06Unfortunately, businesses are temporary,

1:29:09but zoning changes never get reduced,

1:29:11so we have no idea what will follow on this site.

1:29:14Minor, if the requirement is for a three meter setback

1:29:20and someone wants to put planters and a patio

1:29:22right to the lot line,

1:29:24essentially requesting zero setback,

1:29:27I question their ability to do math

1:29:30because the answer is infinity,

1:29:32which is not minor by any measure.

1:29:3550% of indoor capacity is allowed

1:29:38and they are asking for double that

1:29:40under the guise of applying as two businesses.

1:29:43The gallery hours say Friday, 11 a.m. to 5 p.m.

1:29:48and Saturday noon to five.

1:29:50So really, the bar wants 200% for their one business

1:29:54that is open beyond these hours.

1:29:56So the answer here is four times the allowed limit,

1:29:59which again is not minor,

1:30:01even on this small scale lot like this.

1:30:06I would argue the impact is greater

1:30:08when you consider the total number of people

1:30:10on this small lot and the lack of any buffering walls

1:30:14so the impact increases even more

1:30:16on a small outdoor venue.

1:30:20The applicant has come back three times now

1:30:22with minor variances and as they say,

1:30:25each one taking a few inches ends up taking a mile.

1:30:29I think the outcome of all these requests

1:30:31are a mile from what should have been allowed

1:30:33on this property.

1:30:35Compatibility, allowing a bar in the middle

1:30:38of a neighborhood to serve local residents

1:30:40sounds like a great idea, but that's not what we got.

1:30:44We got a drive to destination bar.

1:30:48Patrons of the gallery would need to walk down

1:30:50the public sidewalk with their drinks,

1:30:53with no partitioning from the roadway

1:30:55to get from the gallery to the proposed patio.

1:30:59Where would they go if the patio is full?

1:31:01Would they just wander the sidewalk with their open drinks?

1:31:05Would the new safety barriers

1:31:07that the building services are recommending

1:31:09extend down the boulevard to the gallery door

1:31:12to separate the road?

1:31:14That would not enhance the look of the neighborhood.

1:31:17Along with this, the noise and lighting around the site

1:31:21and the general late night scurrying of people

1:31:23coming and going from their cars,

1:31:25beeping those stupid car lock doors

1:31:28and is not compatible with our quiet residential neighborhood.

1:31:34This does not meet the definition

1:31:36of small scale non-residential uses

1:31:38that are complementary to and serve the needs

1:31:41of the residential neighborhood.

1:31:44Desirable?

1:31:46Look at the letters that you received by June 1st

1:31:48and think of it sounds desirable to the residents

1:31:50that live closest to the building.

1:31:5312 people living within a few meters don't want it,

1:31:56but someone out in Wellington County

1:31:58thinks it's a great idea.

1:32:00I doubt they walk the 12 kilometers

1:32:02for a drink a couple of times a week,

1:32:04not local as per the OP.

1:32:07I was surprised to see other comments

1:32:09about public urination on the site.

1:32:11I thought or hoped what I had witnessed

1:32:14was a one-off emergency,

1:32:15but it sounds like more of a

1:32:17nobody here will care type situation.

1:32:21This emphasizes a concern I have

1:32:22about the capacity of an access to washrooms.

1:32:27Can the current facilities,

1:32:30if only one business is open at a time,

1:32:33after 5 p.m., handle more than 20 alcohol consuming patrons

1:32:38on the patio?

1:32:40How will someone from the patio be accommodated

1:32:42under the indoor capacity?

1:32:44Do you have to ask someone to wait outside until you're done

1:32:48or do fire code and zoning not apply if you have to go?

1:32:53I'm sure the applicants saw how the neighbors feel

1:32:55and they rallied their supporters

1:32:57from around the province to add comments.

1:33:00As for the building itself,

1:33:02this is something everyone has a personal opinion of

1:33:04and the owner and others have shared, so I'll add mine too.

1:33:08I like the bright cherry look of the highlight yellow building

1:33:11with the red trim and find the current look

1:33:14uncharacteristically dark and dingy for the neighborhood.

1:33:19The safety and quality of life of their own neighbor

1:33:21seems irrelevant when it means a little more publicity,

1:33:25another blog, tweet, or Instagram moment,

1:33:28or a few more dollars.

1:33:30Neither the bar nor the gallery are walkable businesses

1:33:33for the capacity they expect to fill.

1:33:36Increasing capacity by allowing a patio

1:33:38only makes this 200% less compatible with the neighborhood.

1:33:43I do not want to spend my evenings down at the corner,

1:33:46policing their patrons to only consume their drinks

1:33:49on the patio, remain seated at all times

1:33:52so they're not obscuring sight lines for vehicle drivers,

1:33:56not making louder excessive noises,

1:33:59not sneaking behind the building to do their business

1:34:03and not entering the building if it exceeds capacity.

1:34:07I'm sure all of these will happen

1:34:09and nobody else will police it either.

1:34:12I'm sure bylaw doesn't want to field that many more calls

1:34:15from neighbors every night either.

1:34:17The only outcome will be a lot of really angry neighbors

1:34:21and a corner that smells in the morning,

1:34:24lovely for the cafe goers that arrive early.

1:34:27If the owner really wanted a large bar

1:34:29with a big outdoor patio,

1:34:31then why did they purchase the least suitable property

1:34:35to accommodate that and force it

1:34:37into a nice residential neighborhood

1:34:39where it is not suitable as evidenced

1:34:41by the number of variances it's taking to get this done.

1:34:47I'm not sure if losing their title

1:34:48as Canada's smallest bar with a capacity of 30

1:34:52will help in making it less of a destination bar,

1:34:56but that may be the one upside

1:34:57if this outdoor expansion has the misfortune

1:35:00of being supported.

1:35:03If your immediate reaction to my opening request

1:35:06was that it was ludicrous,

1:35:08then appreciate that I have conformed

1:35:10to the 10 minute requirement.

1:35:12If the applicant cannot do the same,

1:35:14conform to the requirements of three meter setbacks,

1:35:16including planters, no encroachment on sightline triangles

1:35:20and a maximum of five guests on the patio,

1:35:23then I urge you to stand behind the city's official plan

1:35:25and zoning regulations of no outdoor patio

1:35:29and more importantly,

1:35:30stand with the residents of the ward

1:35:33and refuse this application in its entirety.

1:35:36Thank you for listening.

1:35:39Thank you for your presentation

1:35:40and you were under your 10 minutes, so kudos.

1:35:45At this point, I'll ask you to stay and buy

1:35:47and see if there are any of my colleagues

1:35:49who would like to ask you any questions.

1:35:55I do have a question for city staff

1:35:57based on a point that was raised and that was setbacks.

1:36:02It seems there's a question about whether or not

1:36:06the required setbacks would be honored

1:36:10for this proposal for the patio.

1:36:15Is there any comment from staff on that?

1:36:21To the chair, the applicant has applied

1:36:25for a number of variants is with regards to the setbacks.

1:36:32So I think if you look at the public notice,

1:36:35variants to both the 95 bylaw and 2023 bylaw,

1:36:40they've applied for a number of,

1:36:44so variants is D, E and F are dealing with location.

1:36:50I guess my question is that there is a minor,

1:36:53my understanding is that there is a minor variance

1:37:19for these setbacks.

1:37:21Yes, that's correct.

1:37:22That's part of the application, yes.

1:37:26And that is something that we will consider

1:37:29in our discussions on this once a motion comes forward.

1:37:35So I wanna thank you once again for your attention

1:37:38and your understanding of the application.

1:37:43And your commitment to your neighborhood.

1:37:44Thank you very much.

1:37:45Thank you.

1:37:48We have any other, yes, please come forward

1:37:51and state your name for the record, please.

1:37:53Stella Mott.

1:37:57You have 10 minutes to address committee.

1:38:00Thank you, chair and members of the committee.

1:38:03I live at 79 Ontario Street,

1:38:06indirect site of the property in question.

1:38:09I appreciate the opportunity to stand before you,

1:38:12speak to my concerns about the property

1:38:15and I hope persuade you to reject the application

1:38:18for a licensed patio.

1:38:21Letters and some of the presentations will

1:38:23or have covered some practical issues

1:38:25that would negatively impact the residents directly concerned

1:38:29if the bar goes outside its building,

1:38:32such as noise parking, unruly patrons and so forth,

1:38:37as well as the neighborhood in general

1:38:39with impeded sight lines.

1:38:42Speaking of sight lines, I was surprised

1:38:44that no one from planning mentioned patio umbrellas,

1:38:47sunscreens, lighting or signage in their comments.

1:38:53For my contribution to this meeting,

1:38:55I would like to focus on some of the ideological concerns

1:38:59this application has raised.

1:39:02The committee should not consider this application

1:39:04in isolation.

1:39:06Reviewing the pertinent applications,

1:39:08there appears to be a trend that seemed innocuous

1:39:11or even welcomed at first the barber shop,

1:39:15convenience store and cafe,

1:39:17but expanded to different businesses, a pub

1:39:21and an extended liquor license.

1:39:24Can you extrapolate the trend?

1:39:27It is easy for the neighbors to see that saying no

1:39:30to a patio in August of 2022,

1:39:33become saying yes to a patio this year,

1:39:37to an expanded license space in the cafe

1:39:41to later closing times and so on.

1:39:44Everything they've asked for, they've been granted.

1:39:47Yes, staff through the neighborhood of Smallbone

1:39:50by amending the closing time to 11 p.m. instead of midnight,

1:39:56but who's to say that recommendation will not be reversed

1:40:00as was the 2022 recommendation about the patio.

1:40:06Not to mention, does closing time equate

1:40:09to when people are leaving the patio

1:40:12or will the consumption of purchased drinks continue

1:40:16further delaying quiet time?

1:40:19Would you say that this trend is an example

1:40:21of procedural integrity?

1:40:24There is no block or radiant street change

1:40:27to suggest why staff reversed their recommendation

1:40:31other than increased parking pressure

1:40:33from high density housing developments

1:40:35and that what here reapplied

1:40:37for what they had been refused before.

1:40:40At what point will you draw the line

1:40:42for variance applications to this property?

1:40:46The applicants are not neo-fights jumping

1:40:49on an entrepreneurial idea, they are seasoned business persons.

1:40:53We as neighbors could easily assume from the above trends,

1:40:57recommendations and decisions

1:40:59that we are being taken advantage of,

1:41:02that the implied intent of a daytime hub

1:41:05of convenience businesses for the residences,

1:41:09hence zero parking, was a cover for intended advertised

1:41:14and blog gathering place for non-residents.

1:41:18Is today's meeting about continuing

1:41:20the disingenuous approach of what you're holding

1:41:24who started a project knowing what the rules are,

1:41:27went ahead and broke them, an hour asking for more?

1:41:32Or is it about respecting the people who live

1:41:34in this immediate area of R1 zoning?

1:41:39It is our understanding that people surveyed

1:41:41and those immediately outside the surveyed area

1:41:44must carry more weight in planning decisions.

1:41:48The opinions and monetary interests

1:41:51of those living farther afield are much less relevant.

1:41:57It is my experience that some of the residents

1:41:59in the immediate neighborhood who are silent

1:42:02or support the application have not fully considered

1:42:05the impact on themselves or their neighbors.

1:42:09They may be far enough away or attracted to the idea

1:42:12of the patio without being aware of all the implications

1:42:16like not being able to enjoy one's front porch or yard.

1:42:20To quote from planning services comments,

1:42:24having guests outside will provide more activation

1:42:27of the street and contribute to an attractive street block.

1:42:32For whom does this refer?

1:42:34Residents, visitors or potential upscale

1:42:39or high density housing creeping into an older R1 zone.

1:42:43People who want activation currently have downtown

1:42:46and easy walk away, less than 10 minutes.

1:42:51This statement from planning is an example

1:42:53of top down governance by unelected staff

1:42:57that presumes upon property owners and residents.

1:43:00I have never been surveyed by planning services

1:43:03about what I would recommend

1:43:05to increase the attractiveness of my street block.

1:43:09It certainly would be enhanced by more timely response

1:43:12to complaints about couches and garbages left

1:43:14on the boulevard or vehicles strewn

1:43:16in an unauthorized parking area.

1:43:19I am curious, would the committing members

1:43:23or planning staff be prepared

1:43:24to have their streets activated in this way?

1:43:28Would a bar and patio contribute

1:43:30to the attractiveness of their street blocks?

1:43:34My street is mainly R1 residential,

1:43:38why should it be activated?

1:43:41As resources permit, individual owners like me

1:43:45and tenants like our old friend Warren

1:43:48often desire to make their residences more attractive,

1:43:51sometimes with more success than others.

1:43:54As we walk the neighborhood, we can comment,

1:43:56oh my goodness, how lovely,

1:43:59or sometimes what were they thinking?

1:44:02All the while recognizing that each person has the freedom

1:44:05within by law structure to create what appeals to them

1:44:10because they choose to live there.

1:44:13We love our eclectic neighborhood.

1:44:15It is not a cookie cutter subdivision that needs activation.

1:44:19Please let it continue to develop

1:44:21within the established framework it currently has.

1:44:25My family has lived, worked, and worshiped

1:44:28in this immediate neighborhood for more than 30 years.

1:44:31A day doesn't go by that one of us does not pass

1:44:34through this intersection.

1:44:36As such, we protest planning services recommendations

1:44:40as we believe they do not have the wellbeing

1:44:43of the immediate residents in mind.

1:44:46Our 138 year old home is built on huge foundations.

1:44:51City governance should also rest

1:44:53on dependable foundations, bylaws,

1:44:57not changeable recommendations.

1:45:00We understand it is unusual for committee

1:45:02to reject staff recommendations.

1:45:05Let this be one of the times that you do.

1:45:08Let this be one of the times

1:45:10that the people directly and negatively impacted

1:45:14by granting this additional variance are taken seriously

1:45:18and justice towards them is done.

1:45:20Thank you.

1:45:23Thank you very much for your comments.

1:45:25And if you want to wait there,

1:45:26I will ask the committee if there are any questions for you.

1:45:35Seeing none, I want to thank you very much

1:45:38for your presentation.

1:45:40Thank you.

1:45:41Are there any other members of the audience

1:45:43who'd like to address the issue?

1:45:45Please come on down.

1:46:10Good afternoon.

1:46:11Do you want to state your name for the record, please?

1:46:14Yes.

1:46:15My name is Lorraine Pagnan.

1:46:18I live at 155 Ontario Street

1:46:20and I've been a resident in my neighborhood for 35 years.

1:46:24Welcome.

1:46:25You have 10 minutes to address the committee.

1:46:26Okay, thank you.

1:46:29All right, I have two things I want to say, first of all,

1:46:32is just to clarify that music is not allowed at all

1:46:39into the noise bylaw for the city of Guelph

1:46:42in residential areas, just the downtown.

1:46:44So I want that to be noted.

1:46:49Second of all, the zoning bylaw for the property

1:46:53is that there is no parking allowed on the site.

1:46:56So all the cars that have been parking there

1:46:58since they opened have been in contravention

1:47:01of the zoning bylaw, which is why I sent

1:47:03that lovely set of fixtures in earlier.

1:47:07I just get frustrated when I keep hearing inaccuracies

1:47:10by staff and by some of the delegates.

1:47:14Thank you.

1:47:17The uses of an outdoor licensed patio contravenes

1:47:20with the convenience commercial C1 zone

1:47:22and the specialized convenience commercial zone.

1:47:25I have the new zoning and the old zoning bylaws here

1:47:29that I have photocopied that talk about what is allowed

1:47:31and what is not allowed in the zone

1:47:33that we are talking about right now.

1:47:36This is the third time in two years

1:47:38that variances have been requested.

1:47:40The first variance we requested in May, 2021,

1:47:46after the applicant was basically had to do a stop

1:47:54to work order because they were started working

1:47:56on the building, et cetera, before they had permits.

1:48:01They requested a relief from the off-street parking

1:48:04to be zero.

1:48:05The justification by staff back then was

1:48:07that the three uses were to be served

1:48:09a local neighborhood, therefore more walkability

1:48:12and cycling with less reliance on cars,

1:48:15therefore a low impact for their surrounding neighborhood.

1:48:19The uses requested and granted were a coffee shop,

1:48:22a barber shop, a convenience store

1:48:24to serve the local neighborhood.

1:48:27Two variants of requests later,

1:48:28we now have a bar and a gallery.

1:48:30They were approved in August, 2022.

1:48:34They have more patrons than the other uses would generate,

1:48:36but no allowance was made for parking, impact of noise,

1:48:40cars or people hanging outside the bar to get in, sorry.

1:48:46The bar was allowed a capacity of 10

1:48:48and the gallery we weren't sure of.

1:48:51Again, the applicant said these uses were to service

1:48:53the local residents to meet the residential

1:48:55commercial zone specifications,

1:48:57but this is not what happened.

1:48:59The bar has been promoted as a destination bar

1:49:01with people driving from Toronto and elsewhere,

1:49:03and the gallery is being promoted as a venue to rent out

1:49:06and a destination gallery, not a local gallery.

1:49:10We have more issues with parking on the street as well

1:49:12as currently the property is being used as a parking lot.

1:49:17Sorry about that.

1:49:18Remember, there is no parking on site

1:49:19and they are now in contravention of this bylaw.

1:49:23I'm sorry about that, I repeated myself.

1:49:24I'm a little nervous here.

1:49:26The applicant is adjacent and across the street

1:49:29from all residential homes.

1:49:31There is a reason why the two zones is CC one zone

1:49:35and the current zone, the C one zone,

1:49:37and the zone that this is, which is a C one dash 15 zone,

1:49:41doesn't allow for outdoor licensed patios

1:49:43in a residential area.

1:49:44Why should this applicant be treated any differently?

1:49:48There hasn't even been anything mentioned

1:49:49about the lighting that will be required,

1:49:51umbrellas, smoking, the noise that will be generated,

1:49:54et cetera, on this site.

1:49:57And what about music?

1:49:58There's a noise bylaw on Guelph

1:49:59that does not allow any music at any time.

1:50:01Will this be their next request for variance relief

1:50:04from the noise bylaw and a relief

1:50:06from any lighting regulations?

1:50:08Will there then be a request for a food truck

1:50:09or outhouses to facilitate patrons?

1:50:12The development on this property has not been minor,

1:50:16nor truly transparent to the neighborhoods

1:50:18and staff and committee of adjustment

1:50:21and is frankly doing a good job

1:50:22of making a joke of the system.

1:50:27The site has gone from what will be just for the neighborhood

1:50:29to a regional destination,

1:50:31not what the zone and official plan intended.

1:50:34The most disappointing and confusing

1:50:37is some of the comments from staff

1:50:41and their justifications,

1:50:42planning that liquor not be offered for sale

1:50:45or sold beyond 12 a.m.

1:50:47And that the hours of operations,

1:50:48the outdoor patio should end at 11.

1:50:51How does that work?

1:50:52How can you sell alcohol till 12

1:50:53and close the patio at 11?

1:50:57Building services that no parking be permitted

1:50:59on the property other than temporary loading.

1:51:01How can you trust that they will follow that condition

1:51:03when they have not been following the other conditions

1:51:06about of having parking on site?

1:51:10In August, 2022, as part of the committee of adjustments

1:51:13approved for minor variance,

1:51:16for the license established on our gallery

1:51:18and as an additional use,

1:51:19it was approved with a condition

1:51:21that staff report recommended

1:51:23that an outdoor patio shall not be permitted

1:51:26for the license establishment.

1:51:27Now staff is in support of a license outdoor patio.

1:51:30Why would they support something they previously made

1:51:33as part of a condition to allow the gallery and bar?

1:51:36And my next question, why would this committee

1:51:38now allow a licensed patio bar

1:51:40when the condition in August 2022

1:51:44to allow for the present use was made by the committee?

1:51:49The idea of a shared patio is just a way around

1:51:51getting booths sold outside

1:51:52in order to increase capacity for the bar.

1:51:55A small patio adjacent to the cafe is a different story

1:51:58and a more compatible with the residential component.

1:52:01No late evenings, less cars

1:52:03and parking issues, no alcohol,

1:52:05and it supports the local neighborhood.

1:52:08The current zoning bylaw and the new 2023 zoning bylaws

1:52:11both permit limited commercial uses

1:52:13that can coincide and have compatibility

1:52:16with the residential components surrounding them.

1:52:20But no license establishment gallery or outdoor patio bar.

1:52:24We have a gallery and a bar, let's stop the patio bar.

1:52:29Building services, the number of variances required

1:52:31permit the location of the patio

1:52:33are due to the limited triangular shape of the property,

1:52:36together with the existing building location.

1:52:38That's quote from the report.

1:52:41I don't feel this is a minor,

1:52:43I don't feel this justification to allow their patio,

1:52:45especially when it's a great ask and not minor.

1:52:51It goes on to say that the total capacity

1:52:54of the building code of three properties

1:52:59has a limit of 30 people.

1:53:01That is tied into the washroom facilities.

1:53:03And that the owner operators will need to manage the property

1:53:06to maintain the total maximum of 30 persons.

1:53:10How can we as neighbors have faith

1:53:12that they can manage this when they have chosen

1:53:14to allow parking on the property which is not zoned for

1:53:17in a condition of the last two variances?

1:53:21Okay, why this is not a minor variance.

1:53:24The variances are not minor in nature.

1:53:26The cumulative and piecemeal approach

1:53:28for a total of 12 variances since 2021

1:53:31has taken the proposal so far from the intended use

1:53:34and purpose of the C1-15 zone and the 2023 CC zones.

1:53:40The allowed the use is no longer compatible

1:53:42with the adjacent residential neighborhood.

1:53:45Adding a patio bar exceeds this even further.

1:53:49Remember the barbershop convenience during coffee shop?

1:53:51No parking walkable neighborhood.

1:53:54Are the proposed variances desirable

1:53:56for the appropriate development of the lands?

1:53:58No, I will refer back to the building services comments.

1:54:00The number of variances required to permit the location

1:54:03of the patio are due to the limited triangular shape

1:54:06of the property together with the existing building location.

1:54:10The negative impact that this will have for residents

1:54:12adjacent to a neighboring site cannot be underestimated.

1:54:15Building services have basically indicated

1:54:17that major variances are needed in order to achieve

1:54:20the said patio bar.

1:54:23Does the proposed variance maintain the general intent

1:54:26and purpose of the official plan?

1:54:27No, the site is designated low density residential,

1:54:30encourages local convenience commercial,

1:54:32but this does not include a licensed patio bar

1:54:35as in both of the zoning bylaws

1:54:39that are currently confused with each other.

1:54:43Do the proposed variance maintain the general intent

1:54:45and purpose of the zoning bylaw?

1:54:47No, they do not.

1:54:48The intent of the zoning bylaw is to provide

1:54:50for small convenience type uses within a neighborhood.

1:54:53The type of use being proposed

1:54:55out of a licensed patio bar is not allowed under the C1 zone

1:54:58that serves low density residential neighborhoods.

1:55:01With the inclusion of all other variances requested

1:55:03to have the patio that will impede site likes, et cetera,

1:55:08it is definitely does not maintain the intent.

1:55:14The owners have proven to be unpredictable

1:55:16and irresponsible with regards to following responsibilities

1:55:19and conditions.

1:55:20I hate to interrupt, but you have one minute left.

1:55:21Okay, I'm gonna go really fast now.

1:55:25The unpredictable of how they have developed the site

1:55:28does not give a pace of mind to the area residents

1:55:31and everything else that has evolved so far in the site.

1:55:34A zoning change should have done in the site

1:55:37and as a negative impact of unpredictability,

1:55:40which is why we have an official plan in zoning bylaws

1:55:42in order to give stability.

1:55:46A zoning change should have been required right from 2021

1:55:50and should never gone so far.

1:55:51Now they want a licensed patio bar

1:55:53with six more variances.

1:55:55Please refuse this applicant and uphold our zoning bylaw

1:55:58and official plan for the benefit of the residents.

1:56:01Thank you.

1:56:02Sorry if I took too long.

1:56:04No, you're right under the wire.

1:56:05Thank you very much for your presentation.

1:56:07Okay.

1:56:08If you want to stand by, I'll ask the committee

1:56:10if they have any questions for you.

1:56:15Seeing none, thank you again for addressing.

1:56:18Oh, excuse me, a member sayers.

1:56:21Yeah, the delegates comments just want,

1:56:28I just want to ask through you to staff.

1:56:30Can you comment on the delegates comments

1:56:34that music isn't allowed in residential areas

1:56:36under the noise bylaw?

1:56:37Yeah, there's a noise, the noise bylaw in Guelph

1:56:39does not allow me.

1:56:40Madam, that's for the city staff.

1:56:43Thank you.

1:56:44You're looking at me so I'm sorry.

1:56:45Sorry.

1:56:50Through the chair to member, sorry, was it Sarah?

1:56:54Not in the bylaw department, the enforcement bylaw.

1:56:58I looked up the bylaw, it says the operation

1:57:00of a radio television stereo, other electronic device,

1:57:03including any amplification device

1:57:05or any musical or other sound producing instrument.

1:57:08Is it all times of the day under the noise bylaw?

1:57:12Doesn't say prohibited.

1:57:15What I think, how they interpret that is,

1:57:19I would expect in your backyard,

1:57:20you are allowed to listen to a radio.

1:57:23It's not prohibited.

1:57:25So it would have to be something that is quiet

1:57:27and not obstructive, offensive,

1:57:35annoying to neighbors.

1:57:37So reasonable.

1:57:39Thank you.

1:57:41Hey, thank you.

1:57:41And thanks for bringing that up.

1:57:43Well, I disagree with her.

1:57:46I've made enough noise complaints to know that

1:57:48the music's not allowed.

1:57:50Thank you.

1:57:52Do we have any other members of the audience

1:57:56who would like to address the committee?

1:57:58Yes, please come on up.

1:58:01Sir, you have addressed the committee already once.

1:58:06I'm sorry, they are out of order.

1:58:08I'm going to recognize the next person to delegate.

1:58:11Thank you.

1:58:15Good afternoon, or I guess it's good evening now.

1:58:18And please state your name for the record.

1:58:21Hi, I'm Kim England.

1:58:23I'm the owner of the Double Rainbow Cafe

1:58:25at 60 Ontario Street.

1:58:28Welcome.

1:58:29And I'm a little conflicted at this point.

1:58:36Are you here as a resident of Guelph,

1:58:41or are you here as part of the proposed applicant?

1:58:46I live in the ward,

1:58:47and I was hoping I could just speak on behalf of

1:58:51my intentions with the patio, I guess.

1:58:55I'm going to allow it.

1:58:57I'm going to look for my colleagues for advice,

1:59:02and they're all nodding, so I will allow it.

1:59:04You have 10 minutes, please.

1:59:06Okay, thank you so much.

1:59:09I love to work in the service industry,

1:59:11and I love to work in the community.

1:59:14I love to try to create community

1:59:16and bring people together.

1:59:18I moved to the ward five years ago,

1:59:21but I already had close ties to Guelph.

1:59:23My partner grew up here, and his parents still live here,

1:59:26and we moved here to be closer to all of that.

1:59:30If we are granted this patio,

1:59:32I really believe it would help bring the community together.

1:59:36My space is small, but I have really dedicated regulars

1:59:40who are wonderful, and they range from young families

1:59:43and students to quite elderly people

1:59:47who actually have started to rely on a daily place to come

1:59:53and sit and talk to myself and my employees

1:59:58and other people in the neighborhood.

2:00:00so many connections be made between different generations, you know, and it's my favorite thing.

2:00:08And I think that if the patio were there and it would increase my ability to continue programs

2:00:13like supporting community food, which is a food equity program, and create more opportunity for

2:00:20people to buy local products, which I focus on. Mike mentioned LASA and there's also quite a few

2:00:29others. I support Fleet Streets and I support a lot of local crafts people and the art that I put

2:00:34up in my cafe is all young student arts. I would love to have small openings and with the patio

2:00:44it would it would give me the space to do that. It's it's been interesting for me to hear other

2:00:53perspectives on it and I'm kind of speaking last minute because the division surprises me, I guess.

2:01:04And I hope you'll grant this patio. Thank you and I appreciate your candor and your approaching us.

2:01:14Do we have any questions of this delegate? Seeing none, thank you again. Thank you.

2:01:23Yes, please come forward. Good evening. Can you speak your name for the record please?

2:01:39My name is James Walk. I live at 50 Ontario Street, tour doors up from the proposed application.

2:01:46I've lived in the ward for I can't believe it 35 years now.

2:01:49You have 10 minutes, James. Go ahead. I'm not going to use them, I promise.

2:01:54Generally speaking, I'm against the patio. I don't want a licensed patio two doors down from me

2:02:01that's going to be open till 10, 11, 12 o'clock midnight. I appreciate the quiet neighborhood that

2:02:07we have. Mike Watt assured us that if there was outdoor music they'd be small speakers.

2:02:13I can tell you I own a couple of small Bose speakers and they're they're better than the 300 watt

2:02:18speakers that stand this high. So big technology comes in small speakers so that's not much of a

2:02:23guarantee that we're not going to be impacted by the noise. So far to date I've noticed

2:02:30irregular parking as early as Sunday morning there was a car parked on Ontario Street over the

2:02:37sidewalk right at the corner by the stop sign. I can see this kind of thing continuing. On my walks

2:02:44with my dogs I have on one occasion witnessed two gentlemen come out of the standing room only bar

2:02:50come around the back and urinate between the building and my neighbour's fence. I've heard the

2:02:57same from other residents who are against this and I see 30 people on a bar with one wash and that's

2:03:04open at the standing room only. I see public urination on the street becoming an issue. I also

2:03:11see noise, light pollution and the sight lines with as people mentioned umbrellas, people standing

2:03:18and talking, waitresses or waiters standing at the table taking orders. This is all going to have to

2:03:24be factored in to the sight lines. My main concern and I brought this up over and over and over from

2:03:31the very beginning of this, that this property is allowed to be developed with the old gasoline tanks

2:03:39still in the ground from the pre-50s, from 1950s perhaps even before that. I personally witnessed

2:03:46the previous owner Tom Bradburn pouring lacquers, thinners, paints, anything that he had left over

2:03:53but didn't want to take the time to go to the hazardous waste depot. I saw him pour down the

2:03:59ports into those what I can only imagine are rotted steel tanks. On other occasions I saw him

2:04:06come back from the United States with his camper and he parked his camper in there and put the sewage

2:04:12hose from his camper down into the ports underneath this parking lot. I don't know how this part,

2:04:19this property can be allowed to be developed as it is without soil remediation. That's my main

2:04:25concern but my other concerns are public urination, light, noise, sight lines and generally speaking

2:04:33that the time that it's going to be open to at night. I enjoy the privacy and the quietness

2:04:38of my front porch and I'd like that to continue as being a neighbor and being a resident for 35 years.

2:04:47And that's pretty much all I'm going to use of my time unless you want me to tell you a story.

2:04:53Given the number of people in the rest of our agenda I'm going to decline on your story but

2:05:01thank you very much for your presentation. If you want to wait right there I'll see if my

2:05:07colleagues have any questions for you. We do have one please go ahead. Through the chair to the

2:05:13delegate. So I'm hearing that there is an interesting community and there's a general

2:05:22recognition that in kind of trying to improve the community atmosphere and work towards that

2:05:32is valuable, valuable to the residents of the neighborhood. Can I ask you to comment on whether

2:05:39it is the issue of a patio that you have a concern with or is it the issue of a licensed patio that

2:05:45you have a concern with? Most definitely the licensed patio aspect of it yes. Okay thank you very helpful.

2:05:55Thank you Menembourg Goodfellow. Any other colleagues wish to reply? Question thank you very

2:06:01much again for your insight and you're free to attend the rest of the meeting thank you. Thank you.

2:06:08Okay. Do we have any other delegates who'd like to address this issue?

2:06:15Yes please come to the microphone. Good afternoon. Good evening. State your and welcome thank you

2:06:38and state your name for the record please. My name is John Leacock. I'm a real estate agent. I was the

2:06:44real estate agent that was involved with the purchase of this property by what they are limited back.

2:06:51Welcome and you have 10 minutes to address the committee. So I'm just talking about

2:06:56I'm not going to be here for long. I just think that this patio extends the community.

2:07:02When I got in contact with Mr. Mike what about purchasing this property the idea was to make it

2:07:09a community hub, a destination for food security and everything that's in the plan that we have

2:07:18right now is to bring the community to this destination. I know I have been to stand the

2:07:24room only. It's a unique experience. It's not a typical downtown bar. You go there for a unique

2:07:32experience and that's how it's going to be for the next 10 owners. It's not cheap to be there.

2:07:38It's a short event that you go to and in terms of the patio being used by the other tenancies that is

2:07:46the other tenancies could change their operational times of business to allow for a multiplicity

2:07:53of different types of activities that could bring the community together. There's a lot of

2:07:58condo developments taking place in the neighborhood that makes this place a focal point for good

2:08:05times and I think by allowing the patio I know that these folks or any future because it's like

2:08:12Mr. Crane said it's a social experiment. Anybody that only is allowed less than 10 people inside

2:08:21especially in the winter months is not going to mess up on the patio space and how it's going to

2:08:25affect this fiscal responsibility on the part of the the licensee to make this place safe

2:08:32for the community to enjoy and I also am very excited as a Guelphite I've been in Guelph since

2:08:381987 about other spin-off activities that could happen throughout the day and throughout the year

2:08:46by having this patio patio space for the other tenancies that the woman that was just allowed

2:08:52that runs the the business next door. All right and that's that's my take I think that

2:09:00every community needs to have a place like this a small destination where people could go it's safer

2:09:06than having to go driving to to it and I think as more and more people move into the community

2:09:13it's going to be a destination that people walk through rather than drive by extending the patio

2:09:19it's going to have less drivers and more people walking and utilizing the patio space.

2:09:25That's my general feeling about it thank you. Thank you very much if you'd like to wait right

2:09:30there and see if the committee has any questions for you. Any members? Yes members Spears.

2:09:36Through you Mr. Chair I have a question for staff actually and I realize it's out of our purview but

2:09:42there's been a lot of talk about washrooms and capacity and do we have any sense that if this

2:09:49application was granted that it could possibly be licensed because it sounds to me like it's going

2:09:56to break all the the the liquor license rules and it can't happen anyway so and if it can't be

2:10:03licensed are we really talking about a patio for the cafe which might be a great thing but do we

2:10:08have any sense of that? Through the chair to member Spears I am really hoping that this is an answer

2:10:16that the applicant or owner could answer if they have been in contact with the AGCO. I am not familiar

2:10:23with their rules and regulations. If we could invite them to come up if they do have an answer.

2:10:32Yeah if through you if we could get that answer I think it would change the tenor of the entire

2:10:37discussion if it isn't true that they can get it. We will have an opportunity for the applicant

2:10:46to answer some of the questions and issues that have been raised so perhaps we could postpone that.

2:10:53Thank you very much for your presentation. Do we have any other members of the audience who wish to

2:11:01address this application? Yes please come forward and state your name if you come to the microphone.

2:11:12State your name for the record and I notice the mic is turned off so you'll have to push the button.

2:11:20Yes Mr. Chair and members my name is Tony Winston. I'm at 35 Ontario Street.

2:11:29I don't want to repeat the arguments that have been made by those who are opposing this application.

2:11:35I think they've been very articulate. I do want to say that I have been very supportive of the

2:11:42cafe and I'm sympathetic that they have some outdoor space so they could expand and they have

2:11:50served the the neighborhood very well in terms of bringing the the local people in the neighborhood

2:11:56together. That's not my impression of what the bar is done. There's a lot of people

2:12:01my impression is driving to the destination parking on the triangle on site and so on.

2:12:08So I guess I feel I'd like you to consider if you are in favor of patio that you approve a

2:12:19non-licensed patio and leave it at that and hopefully that would not change in the future

2:12:24and I have to ask each of the members here would you approve of having a licensed patio of this

2:12:31nature within 50 meters of your house? I mean would you really? Because it's within 50 meters of my

2:12:38house. So I'll leave it at that. Thank you. Thank you. Can I ask you to just stand by for a second

2:12:47and see if there are any questions? Members do you have any questions? Seeing none thank you again

2:12:53for your insight. Do we have any more members of the gallery and the public who wish to speak?

2:13:01I don't see anyone else in the audience but I understand that there are members of the public

2:13:08who are online who wish to address the committee. Is that true Ms. Secretary Treasurer?

2:13:17Thank you chair. We did have some other registered delegates just confirming we did have Doug Todd I

2:13:23believe that individual is not present. We did have an in-person delegate Ross Phillips.

2:13:34That individual doesn't seem to be in person. We did and the final delegate is Russell Morton and

2:13:42that individual will be appearing via video. Welcome can you hear us? He's coming in. Okay thank you.

2:14:02Can you hear me? We can hear you. Can you state your name for the record please?

2:14:08Yep my name is Russell Morton. Welcome Russell you have 10 minutes to address the committee.

2:14:15Thank you Mr. Chair. I apologize I'm losing my voice today so hopefully I will keep it under 10

2:14:21minutes. I'm the owner of the directly neighbouring property 56 on Terrace Street. We share a property

2:14:30line. I'd like to start by voicing my strongest and absolute opposition to this variance

2:14:39and respectfully request that the application be denied. I spoke to an opposition of the

2:14:45original adjustment on May 2021 and again we're considerable concerned about the second adjustment

2:14:53in August 2022. Question at what point the sum of these minor variances is a variance that is no

2:15:03longer minor in nature and a question of these incremental and continued adjustments are actually

2:15:10an appropriate and honest use of this process. I'd like to be clear I've never seen how these

2:15:19adjustments are minor and as a neighbouring resident the effects of these changes are

2:15:25anything but minor. This is a third application by this property development corporation in two

2:15:33years. Each of these hearings brings about stress and uncertainty for the future of this residential

2:15:39family neighbourhood. A large outdoor curbside drinking patio is entirely inappropriate and

2:15:47incompatible with our neighbourhood and community. Patio drinking is well accommodated

2:15:53nearby in the downtown core and it should have no place on this property. I believe the local

2:15:59community has already been accommodating enough of these new businesses on our doorstep. Surely

2:16:05there must come a point where this property developer is accommodating and respectful

2:16:10of their neighbours and stops this incremental rezoning of this property into something that

2:16:15would likely not be supported or approved if requested as a whole. With each new application

2:16:28this property developer has presented attractive and appealing stories about the use of this building

2:16:36to do with community and engagement. Most of these are just stories. There is one point I

2:16:42agree with Mr Watt on and that's Kim England in Double Rainbow Cafe. It's a fantastic business and

2:16:51they're good community members. I think unfortunately these tactics do a disservice

2:16:57to Kim at Double Rainbow and I can see the way this hearing might be going is to

2:17:06start looking at approving a patio for a non-licensed patio for Double Rainbow but not for the bar.

2:17:15We've been here three times already. We'll be here a fourth time

2:17:19for a licensed bar on the patio. If it's approved now we will just be doing this again.

2:17:26With all these stories I'd like to speak to some of the reality of the impact

2:17:36and I do acknowledge there are positive impacts of some of these business. I've always said I'm

2:17:41largely in favour of redevelopment of these properties. I think I am against the way it's

2:17:48been gone about. The reality, parking. I think the parking issue can get dwelled on too much.

2:17:56I don't want to but in a previous adjustment the required parking spaces were reduced from 14 to 0.

2:18:03I'm unaware of adding an additional 20 person capacity to this bar has any effect on that

2:18:08but it certainly will have further effects on the neighbourhood who already bears the

2:18:13parking issue. Whilst I do absolutely support the idea of walkable communities and businesses

2:18:22it has always been a fantasy that the owners and patrons of these businesses will walk and

2:18:27cycle to this property enough for parking not to be an issue. Patients of these businesses fill

2:18:33our streets with cars. On returning home from a trip recently I had to park three streets over

2:18:38and walk with my luggage to my home. There are also multiple vehicles parked on the property every

2:18:45day during business hours. The business owners themselves drive and park at the property daily.

2:18:54Many of these cars are also and I understand that parking is permitted even though there is

2:18:59zero requirement for parking spaces but many of these cars are parked on the proposed area of

2:19:04this drinking patio. With the addition of this patio filling the entire remaining lot the burden of

2:19:10these cars the owners of these businesses is going to be on us residents of the street again.

2:19:18I'd also like to talk to the reality of having a bar on a residential street and the disruption

2:19:24this causes. It's clear that the bar has been popular from outside and outside of our local

2:19:33neighbourhood. The bar's Instagram page shows many celebrity visitors even a mere three days ago

2:19:39they had a visit from Mayor Cam Goughry himself. With this popularity comes disruption.

2:19:48People now stand outside my house having loud drunken conversations at night. Cigarette

2:19:52butts litter a stream across the front of my property. Drunken patrons of Stanny Ramoni

2:19:57have been urinating on and around my property. I did notice there was talk of the limited

2:20:03washrooms and perhaps this is why it will continue. This is all with just the advertised

2:20:11nine-person capacity that they currently have. Adding an additional 20 outdoor drinkers to this

2:20:19residential location will surely increase these issues dramatically. This drinking patio entirely

2:20:27changes the concept that people were presented in a previous variance into something that's far

2:20:32less tolerable and much more disruptive. The type of activity and disruption should have no place in

2:20:39this neighbourhood. Also I want to highlight a few other things in this to do with the property's

2:20:48maintenance and upkeep. Unlike all local residents who take care of their section of the neighbourhood

2:20:55this property developer did not once clear their portion of the sidewalk of snow during the winter

2:21:01months. They did not cut the grass in the summer and it grew tall and unsightly. I am however pleased

2:21:07to see that before this hearing they have finally cut it. Garbage bins are left overflowing and the

2:21:14smell dress onto my property. On top of that these bins have attracted rodents. Rodents are now digging

2:21:19up the vegetable garden in my garden. This has never been an issue in the past. Also without

2:21:26consultation with us the building owner strung up an internet cable that travels from their building

2:21:30directly over my backyard about 10 feet from the ground. We haven't spoke to them at all about that.

2:21:38I understand that the correct response to some of these issues I just highlighted is to

2:21:43complain to bylaw. However I bring them up to you today for two reasons. Firstly character.

2:21:50I believe these issues speak to the character of the development and the care and concern that this

2:21:55property development corporation has for the local community that surrounds these businesses.

2:22:00Secondly I shouldn't have to be filing constant bylaw complaints or faced with the possibility of

2:22:05having to file more. This neighbor should be upholding the standards that we all hold ourselves to.

2:22:11These issues did not exist before the redevelopment of the property. There were no rodents in the

2:22:18garden. There were no drunk men, you were on my property. And again I'd like to speak about

2:22:24process. We've been here three times in two years. This creates a great deal of uncertainty for

2:22:33residents and since this building began being redeveloped there has to come a point where

2:22:41enough is enough and these businesses are left as is. This is so far from what was proposed

2:22:51and gained support two years ago when all of this began. It's my strong belief that the request for

2:22:59the patio should have been included in the original request to allow a bar less than a year ago.

2:23:03I think there would have been a fair honest and upfront way of presenting and gaining approval

2:23:08for this development. It wasn't done that way. I think many of us residents expected it coming

2:23:13at some point as we would expect more in the future. I'm going to just give you a one minute

2:23:21warning there. Okay, right. The property developer has my contact information that's never contacted

2:23:31me. I really wish you would. I still welcome it. On a personal note I've worked really hard for this

2:23:35house. It's the house I plan to bring my family in and these changes affect people living in the

2:23:40ward. I'd like to ask that you apply appropriate weight and feedback to the residents of the actual

2:23:47area on their feedback. You may receive supportive comments from upscale

2:23:52condo developments like the metalworks or even from Mr. Watts personal realtor.

2:23:57But we are the people who are actually affected by these changes. I ask that you please deny this

2:24:03request. Thank you very much. If you want to stand by and I'll see if the committee has any

2:24:11questions for you just a moment. Committee members, any questions for this delegate?

2:24:17Seeing none, I'm going to say thank you very much for your information and your presentation.

2:24:24I'm informed we have another delegate on the line. Please state your name for the record. You have...

2:24:40Please go ahead. Chair Smith, we do have another delegate on the phone. The name is Doug Todd.

2:24:50Welcome. Can you hear me, Mr. Todd? Do we have Mr. Todd on the line?

2:25:16Hello. Can you hear me? I can. Welcome and please state your name for the record.

2:25:24Sure. My name is Doug Todd and I want to thank you for the opportunity to just briefly speak.

2:25:31I am the owner of the said Spaniard Monely. If you can just stand by. I just want to warn you that

2:25:41you have 10 minutes to address the committee and go ahead, please.

2:25:46Understood. Understood. I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak. I have been listening

2:25:52and watching from my phone. I'm currently operating the bar and I have a small window here where I

2:25:57actually have a chance to kind of address my things that I want to say. I'm very pleased and happy to

2:26:06be able to operate in Guelph. And the response I'm getting is Guelph is very happy and pleased that

2:26:15we're here. We've always been very, very respectful of our neighbors. That's always been a big piece

2:26:24for us and maintaining order. From the very beginning, I have always stated, if you're looking

2:26:30to get drunk, go downtown. This is not the place for that. The majority of our clientele that are in

2:26:37here are 50 plus. The majority of the clientele that come in are walkable clients from the

2:26:45Nubilwerks building. Listen, maintaining order has always been a top priority and it's not just

2:26:53from me. It has been from the Lonnie Jennings and from Double Rangle Cafe. The three companies

2:27:00or the three businesses that are here are working together to maintain that and that's

2:27:04important to us. We've developed a beautiful little hub that I'm seeing the community embracing

2:27:12and we want to just make this place special. We have a landlord that has made this suggestion

2:27:23to put in a patio and yes, it will change our lives. It's something that you don't hear of

2:27:31as far as a landlord looking out for his tenants and going out of his way to make

2:27:40the people that rent from him successful. This is very special to us. It's special to me

2:27:46and I'm grateful and I love this opportunity to be part of this and I'm just

2:27:53wanting to voice my I guess I am in favor. I love the opportunity to be able to have

2:28:02a patio that of course we could take advantage of and just make this place all that more

2:28:07special. I have seen the community grow. I have seen more people come down. One of the most

2:28:12common questions I get is are you going to have a patio and it's like this isn't a decision for me

2:28:17to make. This is that's for other people to discuss. So this is in your hands. We do want to

2:28:25maintain order. We do not want to be serving alcohol outside at an unreasonable hour that's

2:28:33going to make neighbors upset. We've never had bylaw call here. We've had people come and say I

2:28:39can't believe there's a bar here. It's a pipe. That's what we want to maintain and that's important

2:28:44to us. So outside of that I think what I need to say has been said. Well thank you very much.

2:28:53If you want to stand by I'll see if members of the committee would like to ask any questions.

2:28:59Committee members do you have any questions of this delegation? Seeing none I'll thank you very much.

2:29:09Sorry. Thank you. Just a moment. We do have a question for you member good fellow.

2:29:16Yes thank you. So through the chair one question for you. I have not been to standing room only.

2:29:23It sounds like a very interesting place. I would love to walk there. I am curious though about

2:29:30what you serve. Is it more beer and wine? Is it more cocktails? Can you kind of put it

2:29:36into perspective for me on the range of products that you serve?

2:29:41Listen ultimately it is a cocktail bar. It is a establishment that's designed to

2:29:51become an experience. Drinks are on a higher quality. They're a higher end. We do carry beer.

2:29:59It is a limited selection. We do carry some local beer. Our bar rail is local liquor.

2:30:08So it is it's a cocktail bar that does serve wine, that does serve beer.

2:30:13And like I said it's designed to be an experience. It's something special. It's something where people

2:30:18can enjoy on their way out to dinner or maybe coming back to the movies. It's listening. The space

2:30:26isn't big. It's designed to be intimate and fun where everybody gets to know everybody and it just

2:30:33organically grows on its own. Thank you. Very helpful. I think that was the end of the questions.

2:30:45Thank you very much for your presentation and you're free to continue watching but leave the

2:30:54meeting. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Madam Secretary Treasurer do we have any other delegates?

2:31:03Chair Smith I can confirm no other delegates.

2:31:07Thank you and I want to thank the committee for their attention so far. This has been

2:31:15particularly interesting and long reason set of presentations. At this point I'd like to ask if the

2:31:25applicant would like to address some of the issues that have been raised by the various members of

2:31:31the public. Hi there. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity. I don't know where to start. This

2:31:52has been a lot to address. Light is the first thing for some reason that I have at the top of my page.

2:32:01Light pollution I think was mentioned. I'm not sure where that's coming from. We have some goose

2:32:06neck lights that are LED that point down at the building just to sort of create a glow.

2:32:11I don't see how that's an issue. I heard urinating mentioned a number of times.

2:32:20The letters are the last few days is the first I've ever heard of that.

2:32:24We do have cameras on the outside of the building. I've never seen it.

2:32:29We can certainly add more cameras if that would be something that would

2:32:34sort of maybe address that. I don't know how else to address it.

2:32:37I don't understand why someone would leave the barn immediately go to the back of the building

2:32:43when there's a washroom in the building. There's never been a lineup for the washroom in the

2:32:47building. We only can hold 10 people. Parking I think has been addressed by staff in terms of

2:32:58it was approved with no on-site parking requirements which doesn't mean that

2:33:06parking is prohibited. We are allowed to park there but there's certainly enough

2:33:11on-street parking and off-site parking to accommodate these three

2:33:16literally tiny businesses that don't really overlap in terms of time anyway. There's more

2:33:24than adequate on-street parking for a bar that's licensed for 10 people and a coffee shop that's

2:33:32open in the morning in the afternoon and an art gallery that typically doesn't have more than

2:33:38one or two people in it at any given time. Trying to think what else.

2:33:47By the way, I see John here and thanks for speaking. John sold the building and when I

2:33:54purchased it I was told that the zoning by the city and by John and by the listing agent was

2:34:02C1 zoning which allowed for all these current uses takeout food, coffee shop, personal use for

2:34:11barbershop convenience store. It allowed for all these uses. That was the original zoning on the

2:34:18property and then Thomas Bradburn I suspect asked for site specific zoning which was C-15

2:34:27which allowed him to have a garage and a body shop which he ran for his entire life.

2:34:37When I approached it was Astrid previously about the zoning she confirmed that it was C1

2:34:46but then it turned out that the specialized C-15 zoning actually lost the C-1 zoning for some

2:34:54reason which didn't seem to make sense to anybody but that was the case and I was told that if I

2:35:00want to do a convenience store a barbershop or a coffee shop the best way to do that is to

2:35:06take it to committee of adjustments and get a minor variance to allow that a site specific

2:35:11minor variance. Unfortunately during the pandemic things changed barbers didn't do that well.

2:35:18The two different barbers that I had unfortunately their plans changed which affected my plans

2:35:25which is also the same for the convenience store that ended up opening his location down the road.

2:35:32I mean I feel I don't want to be here every year. This is not the intention. I'm not trying to

2:35:39you know I'm calling me a developer and I'm trying not to take this personally it's a little tricky but

2:35:45I'm not intentionally coming to the committee to try to eventually achieve

2:35:56something you know and pull a fast one or pull the wool over anyone's eyes. That's not really

2:36:01the intent. The intent is to create a special place at this corner if you see where it is you'll

2:36:07understand that it's much better as a coffee shop a 10 person bar and an art gallery than it is

2:36:15as a body shop and that was what I was told would be the easiest route to take just stick a body

2:36:22shop back in. I had two different people approach me who wanted to do oil changes and different

2:36:29things and and and that would have been the simplest thing to do rather than feeling you know

2:36:35what I'm doing is is horrible for the community. I mean for 25 years Tom got a blessing he you know

2:36:42he had two 53 foot transport truck trailers parked on the site. One of them was parked on the city's

2:36:52right of way beside the building not his property the other one was parked right on the triangle

2:36:58right in the site triangle which for the last 25 or 30 years no one seemed to have a problem with

2:37:03but anyway

2:37:11I'm just trying to think what else maintenance I mean someone I think was the previous caller

2:37:17who doesn't live there he leases it out to I believe his brother

2:37:22and he lives in another part of Canada and I don't have his contact information and I have

2:37:26never met him and I would call him and I did text Elise and I didn't get a response she's

2:37:33his tenant but I did reach out to her he mentioned about grass there's there's basically a little

2:37:39bit of grass on the the city's boulevard that was you know I went down with a weed whip and cut it but

2:37:46it's the maintenance on the property is I would have to say a hundred times better than it's

2:37:54ever been it's been completely redone with new windows new electrical new plumbing new heating

2:38:00new door new everything it's it's literally a new building inside the shell of the existing building

2:38:08it's it's been a lot of work it's been a you know I have to hand it to well to Doug and to Kim

2:38:17and to Ross and Sheena for putting themselves out there and you know investing their time investing

2:38:25their money and taking a chance on this neighborhood we have been well embraced

2:38:33Kim is doing well Lord knows she would do a lot better with a patio if people could actually

2:38:38sit there outside and enjoy the coffee or you know the the different things that she sells and

2:38:45same with Doug he would do better and talking to Ross and Sheena they would love to be able to

2:38:52do you know do their their openings like to be able to have Ross mentioned he would like to have

2:39:01perhaps have some speakers or to do presentations in the afternoon it would not be at 11 o'clock

2:39:11at night it would be you know an early evening or dinner time thing but there's so many different

2:39:16ideas that they've all had and and these three micro business entrepreneurs have been working

2:39:24together to help each other and support each other and support I mean spring mill distillery has

2:39:33been extremely supportive of us Kim has supported lasso foods everyone has just

2:39:39really worked together and tried hard to support each other

2:39:43um anyway the uh Nick who spoke earlier read to leave uh talked about walking past the building

2:39:52that's I'm not sure if you're aware of it directly across the road that's in complete

2:39:56disrepair the one that had the the vines growing up this side

2:40:00that he walked past with his son and talked about organizing free labor and free paint and doing a mural.

2:40:08It's now all overgrown with vines again. You can barely see the mural. So it's

2:40:16and I didn't realize I was up on the roof of our building. I put a new roof onto

2:40:20and I could see the roof on the other building and it has completely collapsed.

2:40:24But that building is an utter and complete disrepair. I've tried contacting the owner

2:40:31Her name is Lisa Dufresne. Lisa, if you're watching, I'd love you to call me.

2:40:37I haven't been able to contact her. Nobody seems to know where she is, but that building has been vacant for 20, 25 years.

2:40:45And I don't I I I appreciate your your passion, but really this format is for you to address

2:40:53the issues that have been raised. So if you don't have any more of those issues, I we have

2:41:00pretty full agenda to go on. So I I I'd like you to sum up, please.

2:41:05I think the one final thing that is about the AGCO and a liquor license. And yes, there is no reason

2:41:12that a liquor license can't be on a patio. They certainly exist all over downtown.

2:41:18And a lot of the patios downtown seem actually larger than the

2:41:23the inside capacities of some of the some of the buildings. So

2:41:28anyway, I hope that

2:41:30Thank you. I appreciate

2:41:36the the time that everyone has taken on this. And at this point, I am going to

2:41:43bring this into the committee and we're going to consider a motion and vote on a resolution. So thank you very much.

2:41:52Committee members, I'll entertain

2:41:55a motion at this point. Sorry, member pipe.

2:42:06I would move for a motion for an unlicensed 10 person patio, maintaining the sightline triangle.

2:42:16Do we have a seconder for that that that changes the motion that was originally put forward. So

2:42:25member pipe, let me ask if you are voting in in favor of all the other proposed

2:42:32amendments that have come forward

2:42:35that are proposed by city staff or approved by city staff.

2:42:42It would be changing the application to a smaller patio to maintain the sightline

2:42:52to have the capacity of the interior.

2:42:55I guess my question is, are you also moving

2:43:00all the other requirements?

2:43:02There is a requirement for the setbacks to be

2:43:07perhaps if we had the

2:43:43the original motion read out.

2:43:46Chair Smith, I can definitely read out what the applicant has requested just so we're all on the same page.

2:43:55So the applicant is seeking relief from the by law requirements to permit.

2:43:59A, this is the first one, a licensed establishment with an associated outdoor patio in the C.1 slash 15 zone and in the CC zone.

2:44:10Second, they're asking for the proposed outdoor patio to be partially located within the sightline triangle of the lot.

2:44:17Third, they're asking for a maximum capacity

2:44:21of 100% of the indoor capacity,

2:44:24which is 20 persons, for the proposed outdoor patio associated with the licensed establishment.

2:44:30Fourth, they're asking that the proposed outdoor patio to be located in the front yard, an exterior side yard, a minimum of one meter from the street line.

2:44:40Fifth, that the proposed outdoor patio be located outside the building envelope and the required setbacks on the site.

2:44:47And finally, they're asking for the

2:44:50an accessory building or structure being the outdoor patio to be located in the front yards.

2:44:58Thank you, Secretary Treasurer. That is very helpful.

2:45:02Member Prig, do you want to

2:45:05state your motion based on that helpful information?

2:45:13I would move for the unlicensed patio

2:45:17with a 10 person patio

2:45:20with approval

2:45:23of the setbacks.

2:45:29I'm going to ask

2:45:32for a little advice here.

2:45:35Does that meet the requirements, Secretary Treasurer?

2:45:39Through you, Chair Smith, just as we've read out those requirements, so what the applicant's asking for is a licensed establishment with an

2:45:47associated outdoor patio. They're not requesting an unlicensed

2:45:51establishment. If that's what Member Pike would like, then it sounds

2:45:56as if he's recommending refusal of variance A, which is a licensed establishment with an associated outdoor patio.

2:46:03Perhaps we can get some clarification on that. The third variance they're asking for is about

2:46:09the

2:46:11maximum capacity. So they're asking for a maximum capacity of 100% of the indoor capacity being 20 persons for the outdoor patio.

2:46:20It sounds like through that motion, you're recommending that be changed to 10.

2:46:26What the committee's here to to vote on is what the applicants

2:46:31really requesting. It's

2:46:33not essentially for the committee to suggest what the applicant should be

2:46:37asking for there. So

2:46:39there's some ways we could attack that in terms of maybe a condition about the capacity, but really what they're asking for is 20 persons.

2:46:46If the committee doesn't feel that's

2:46:48maybe appropriate, you know, not

2:46:52And a process question. Can we refuse

2:46:56certain

2:46:58requests and then add certain conditions?

2:47:03Certainly the committee can choose which variances. We've got them obviously lettered on the list, but they can choose to

2:47:10approve certain variances and refuse other ones and add conditions as they feel necessary.

2:47:15In light of this discussion and

2:47:19I know we have a motion that hasn't been seconded yet on the floor, but

2:47:24I'm wondering if at this point it would be appropriate to ask the applicant

2:47:30if they would be in favor

2:47:32of

2:47:34these

2:47:35amendments

2:47:37in terms of process. Would that be the appropriate position at this point?

2:47:41Chair Smith, I'd recommend that we get a seconder perhaps first just to make sure that the committee's in

2:47:47context.

2:47:48So I'm going to ask for a seconder on this motion if there is one.

2:47:58I do not see a seconder for that motion.

2:48:03So at this point

2:48:06that motion has failed to come before us and I'm looking for a motion

2:48:13based on the application.

2:48:19Member Spears. I'd like to move that we

2:48:22accept

2:48:23everything but

2:48:25variance A.

2:48:27Leave the numbers the same. It still means the coffee shop can operate and that's

2:48:32well I think that's important, but I don't see any any

2:48:36need for a licensed establishment.

2:48:39So if we can deny one and allow the others, I think that would be a way to move forward.

2:48:44I believe that that would be in order and we would like to have a seconder for that if there is one.

2:48:52I have a seconder.

2:48:54Member Hamilton.

2:48:56We have a motion at this point. I'd like to ask

2:49:00the

2:49:01the applicant if they would

2:49:04how

2:49:05they react to that proposed motion. Thank you.

2:49:26Essentially what would happen is

2:49:29we're committed to approve this motion. Is your

2:49:33application would be approved with the exception of a licensed patio? And so my question to you is

2:49:40would that be acceptable as far as you're concerned?

2:49:45When I spoke with all three tenants about

2:49:50about the patio, it was it was for all all for one.

2:49:54One for all. I mean it was for everybody. It was to be shared between all three tenants and so I I'm not sure that

2:50:04it would get built. That's all.

2:50:08I'd also like to

2:50:10survey staff if they have any comment on

2:50:15on this proposed motion.

2:50:20To the chair

2:50:23staff did recommend approval of all the variances which included the licensed establishment.

2:50:29If committee feels like they only want to

2:50:34or if they want to refuse the first variance that's in the committee's preview, but

2:50:39I believe the applicant has provided a response. I

2:50:42staff don't have any further comment with regards to

2:50:46what the committee wishes to do. It's it's the it's the committee's final decision.

2:50:52Thank you very much. Yeah, go ahead.

2:50:55I guess I'm trying to

2:50:56you know oftentimes as I'm in front of committee or council

2:51:01to try and understand if there is any kind of middle ground and that would be

2:51:05trying to determine if a deferral

2:51:08of this would resolve anything and

2:51:11and I'm not I'm not sure whether it would

2:51:14from a standpoint of is it a capacity thing or is it a straight out license thing

2:51:19of the of the patio

2:51:22and so I I'd look to you know to determine whether that

2:51:27provides the released valve to

2:51:30look at something different or something else. I think the importance

2:51:34that Michael has said is that

2:51:37one for all on this thing

2:51:39to ensure that the businesses are all served.

2:51:43And being respectful of obviously the public

2:51:46this evening. Sorry.

2:51:50Thank you for that

2:51:51insight. So with that in mind, we do have a motion on the floor

2:51:56and it has also been raised that perhaps deferral would help

2:52:04manage this whole thing a little bit better

2:52:10in terms of the public, in terms of the applicant and the way forward.

2:52:16But we do have a motion on the floor.

2:52:18Personally, I would support deferral. I do have issues

2:52:27with the the the proposal as presented.

2:52:35And some of the issues that have been raised by the public I find important.

2:52:41But I also find the answers by the proponent to have answered many of those questions.

2:52:47So speaking as my my own role as a committee member,

2:52:55I would vote against this motion and I would support a further motion for deferral. But I'll

2:53:02defer to the committee for their opinions.

2:53:08Yeah, I just I'd like to speak with respect to the motion and you know maybe this will help narrow

2:53:15the issues somewhat, you know, if ultimately is a deferral. But I would still support a licensed patio.

2:53:25I can see that if it's not licensed, it may not get built.

2:53:30So I would I don't know, I'd try and suggest some sort of middle ground where we support a licensed

2:53:36patio, but trying to address some of the concerns that people have with with licensed patio. Like so,

2:53:44for example, a condition that that the maximum capacity is 20 persons. If it's,

2:53:56you know, if that's with respect to the coffee shop or unlicensed use, but a maximum of, you know,

2:54:02maybe 10 people on the patio. If it's licensed. And open till as I think it was discussed at the

2:54:17earlier in the hearing, you know, open till 10pm on weeknights, maybe open till 11pm on Fridays

2:54:23and Saturdays. No live music performances outside. Just try and introduce some conditions like that.

2:54:34I think we have a motion and so we have to deal with that first. So,

2:54:42so I wouldn't support the current motion. Yeah, fair enough. Member Goodfellow.

2:54:49Yeah, just one comment on the motion. I, you know, I intend to support it. I think where I

2:54:56have concerns is around the intensification in a predominantly residential neighborhood.

2:55:01And to me, you know, a licensed establishment is kind of an additional step beyond

2:55:09kind of what I think is appropriate or I feel that the is appropriate in a neighborhood like that,

2:55:13you know, it's the intensification for me. It's not really the capacity per se. Although I think

2:55:21if we were to come back, if this one, if this motion were to fail and we were come back to come

2:55:26back with another one, I would be amenable to some conditions around, you know, making sure there

2:55:35is adequate washroom space because that to me really is an issue in a lot of communities

2:55:42where there is a licensed establishment. And I think that is a real concern. So,

2:55:48I guess I'm what I'm trying to say is that I would, I think it's the intensification for me

2:55:54and kind of a lack of some of the capacity in terms of the services required to support

2:56:01a licensed establishment of this type. Thank you, Member Goodfellow. Any other comments on the motion

2:56:10before us? Before we go to vote, the secretary treasurer has two clarifications.

2:56:36Thank you, Chair. And through the chair, I just wanted to clarify. So I know the motion that we

2:56:42that is on the floor is approval without variance A. So that's approval without the

2:56:48licensed establishment with an outsourced associated outdoor patio.

2:56:55And I just want to ensure, and this might be more of a question for staff, is that

2:57:01the way that the request is worded is a licensed establishment with an out associated outdoor

2:57:06patio. I'm not sure if refusal of that or if that will cause any issues with the licensed

2:57:13establishment. I just want to make sure that everyone's on the clarification about that.

2:57:20So it sounds to me like there wouldn't be a licensed patio or pardon me, a patio as part,

2:57:26were this to go forward that there wouldn't be a patio? Chair Smith, that's exactly kind of what

2:57:38I'm looking for clarification. I'm not sure if planning or other staff can maybe clarify that.

2:57:44Can I ask staff for some advice? So to the chair, I think we were just, I'll just wait

2:58:03maybe for my colleague to look into something further. But I just wanted to note that the

2:58:082022 approval, the conditions were that an outdoor patio shall not be permitted for the

2:58:16licensed establishment. So it didn't speak to not permitting an outdoor patio for

2:58:25the like essentially the art gallery use and the cafe. So then there was conditions imposed with

2:58:34regards to the licensed establishment. So if variance A is refused, they could technically

2:58:41still have the indoor licensed establishment with the other conditions that were imposed in 2022.

2:58:48And then this current application, so if say for instance, the applicant were to have come back

2:58:59with just an outdoor patio for the other two users, they could have, they would have still

2:59:07had to apply for a variance because the outdoor patio would have been located in the front yard,

2:59:14all the other variances would still apply. So they would have had to come back either away,

2:59:18but it was just specific. One of the requested variances was the outdoor patio

2:59:25with the licensed establishment. But if you want to refuse the first one,

2:59:29like they still have their permission from 2022 and you could still approve the variances in terms

2:59:35of location, I'll just look at my calling to make sure she agrees with my interpretation.

2:59:47I agree based on the wording of the request because this is ties the licensed establishment

2:59:54to the outdoor patio as well. Okay, we have some go ahead, sorry, give us a moment here to confirm.

3:00:13I'm wondering, and this is a process issue. So I'm looking to our secretary treasurers for some

3:00:20advice. This meeting has gone on for several hours so far. And before we call the vote, and as there

3:00:28is some consultation going on, I'm wondering if this would be an appropriate time or possible that

3:00:34we could take a five or 10 minute break. Okay, I'm going to make that ruling and we will come back

3:00:42at 12 minutes after seven. I'd like to call back in session the Guelph Committee of Adjustment

3:10:53for Thursday, May 11th. And pardon me, June 8th. I'm looking at an old script. So I'm calling the

3:11:04meeting back to order. And I know that city staff were taking a few minutes to answer an important

3:11:12question about the efficacy of whether or not a patio would be allowed given the motion that's on

3:11:20the floor. So I'm going to ask city staff if they've got any resolution to that. Okay, through the chair

3:11:31to everyone. What we think is that the first request A, or absolutely no alcohol to be permitted

3:11:40on the patio, would need to be refused. I mean, sorry, A request A that a licensed establishment

3:11:48with an associated outdoor patio on the C1 zone and the CZ zone, that would be need to be

3:11:55to allow zero drinking on the patio would need to be refused. And then introduce

3:12:04an additional decision that condition that no liquor license be permitted on the outdoor patio.

3:12:17Add a third condition that the indoor license establishment is restricted to a maximum of

3:12:3020 square meters. We just want to get that in there. That was a decision from the 2022

3:12:36minor variance to ensure that that indoor license establishment use with the size is there.

3:12:50I believe there could be an additional request from the applicant. Sorry, could you repeat that? I missed it.

3:13:03All three of them? Or that there could be that last point you made. Yeah, there could be an

3:13:09additional request from the applicant. If that could be entertained. First, I'm going to ask the

3:13:17mover if those conditions represent his direction in the motion. Yeah, through the chair. Yes,

3:13:26I think that that's on set up. Awesome. And so now I will turn to the applicant. Mr. Chair,

3:13:37we're trying to understand based on the previous variance, which was obviously granted in place

3:13:44without a patio. My my assumption is Mr. Chair, based on the previous variances, those variances

3:13:51would still be in place. We're not. Or are we amending this through this application? And maybe

3:14:03I would what is the 20 meters? I think that's specifically for the little bar where

3:14:11whereas the which is not the applicant, right? Yeah, I just had a point of clarification. So the

3:14:232022 variance application imposed three conditions. The first one was that an outdoor patio not be

3:14:33permitted for the license establishment. That liquor shall not be offered for a sale or sold

3:14:38beyond 12.01 and that the license establishment is restricted to a maximum of 20 square meters.

3:14:44So if you were, yeah, if you were to still if you were to refuse variance a from this current

3:14:52application, the previous approval and conditions would still apply. So the size would be limited,

3:14:57liquor couldn't be sold beyond 12.01 in the license establishment, could not have an outdoor

3:15:02patio. So essentially, just refuse the first one here. And then I believe there is another

3:15:10condition added with regards to having no liquor license be permitted on the outdoor patio, because

3:15:18the art gallery technically could use the outdoor patio for, you know, display of their paintings

3:15:25or show opening or something like that. But as part of the the art gallery still has a license,

3:15:33is technically a licensed, has liquor license. Like things such as like openings and stuff like

3:15:40that, right, they technically but it's it's not considered the main use of being a license

3:15:45establishment, their main uses and our gallery so their liquor license is more accessory. So if

3:15:51you wanted if if the intent of the committee is to have no liquor sold on the outdoor or not sold,

3:15:57but permitted on the outdoor patio, you should add a condition that no liquor something to that effect,

3:16:02no liquor license be permitted or nor liquor be allowed on the outdoor patio. And then that way

3:16:07the art gallery and the cafe could technically use the outdoor patio. So as clarification, I would

3:16:19assume then that where we to vote for this, that there would be a patio allowed, but it would be

3:16:27an alcohol free patio. And the conditions regarding the pardon me the variances required for that

3:16:38patio would be approved under this proposed amendment. Yes, so through the chair. So if you're

3:16:48referring to the conditions that staff recommended with regards that like conditions with regards

3:16:56to the patio like the first condition recommended by planning was with regards to liquor shall not

3:17:01be offered for sale or sold beyond 12 or 1 a.m. Like that would be not that condition would no

3:17:05longer be required. That would still be enforced from the 2022 decision. But we would need to include

3:17:13the hours of operation for the outdoor patio. Michelle ended 11 and I don't know if I think

3:17:19I heard maybe committee members were thinking of adjusting the hours. And then I think the conditions

3:17:27from building services would still apply. Okay, thank you. At this point, before I call the question,

3:17:38I would if permitted, I'd like to ask the proponent if I know that they mentioned deferral

3:17:46earlier. Is that something that you'd like to consider? I hate making decisions on the fly.

3:17:56We're trying to on the spot on the spot and and I respect all of the staff in here because I work

3:18:04with them a lot. And what I'm hearing is sort of, you know, tweaking things and and maybe not

3:18:12because I look at C as well, which talks about a licensed establishment.

3:18:16Like, are we offending 1 and not dealing with the other? Like, I'm coming to a point where

3:18:25respectfully is a deferral so that we can all decide what decision we're making or I guess

3:18:33I'm not making the decision. I'm trying to advise you and that's I think with Mike's okay.

3:18:40Yeah, I mean, if that's your recommendation, it sounds like it. Yeah.

3:18:43Yeah. Committee members, do I have your permission for a deferral on this? Do I have a seconder?

3:18:58Member Sayers, there is no debate on a deferral. I'm going to ask the secretary treasurer to call

3:19:13Thank you, Chair Smith, and I just wanted to confirm the mover for that deferral. You could

3:19:18confirm that for me. That was myself. Okay. All right, committee members, please indicate your

3:19:26vote by responding in favor or opposed to to the motion to defer the application. Chair Smith.

3:19:34In favor. Member Klein. In favor. Member Goodfellow. In favor. Member Hamilton.

3:19:42In favor. Member Pikes. In favor. Member Seher. In favor. And member Spears. In favor. That's

3:19:48Kerry Chair. After much deliberation, that has been deferred. I want to thank you and all the members

3:19:57of public for

3:20:00bearing with us in this long ordeal.

3:20:05I know that deferral under these circumstances

3:20:09is not always welcome,

3:20:11but sometimes it's in the best interest of arriving

3:20:14at a mutually agreed upon solution.

3:20:16So thank you again.

3:20:17Thank you.

3:20:18Thank you.

3:20:24Madam Secretary Treasurer,

3:20:26may we have the next applicant?

3:20:36The next application is file A-33-23,

3:20:40a variance to permit reduced rear yard setback

3:20:42for proposed second story addition at 59 Division Street.

3:20:47And I'll also note for those attending remotely,

3:20:49if you wish to speak to this application,

3:20:51you could do so by calling the number displayed on the screen.

3:20:53That number is 519-822-1260 extension 2524.

3:21:00Is the applicant president.

3:21:02Please come forward and state your name

3:21:05at the microphone for the record.

3:21:11Hello, good evening.

3:21:12Arfan Shafiq, the owner.

3:21:16I'm sorry, the microphone was not quite there

3:21:18when you spoke.

3:21:19Can you state your name please?

3:21:20Yeah, Arfan Shafiq, the owner.

3:21:22Thank you.

3:21:23And was the sign posted as per the planning act?

3:21:26Yes.

3:21:27Thank you.

3:21:28You have 10 minutes and before you start,

3:21:30I want to thank you for your patience.

3:21:31No problem.

3:21:33I'll be quick.

3:21:34Just on the owner at the 59 Division Street in Guelph.

3:21:40If you look at it, it's a convenience store

3:21:43and there's a house on the top of it.

3:21:46And as of now, there's my wife, my two year old son,

3:21:54my father-in-law and I am living there.

3:21:58So basically, we just want to make that living space

3:22:01a little bit bigger.

3:22:02Currently, we have very small full bath.

3:22:06So basically, we just want to make the living space

3:22:09a little bit more bigger.

3:22:10So we have additional spaces on the right side

3:22:14and the left side of the property.

3:22:16So we just want to make that garage

3:22:20and living space bigger on the top of the house.

3:22:24Thank you.

3:22:25And one question I did not ask you

3:22:29and that was had you read the response from staff

3:22:32to your application?

3:22:34It says approval, so I don't know what that means.

3:22:37So I take it you're in agreement.

3:22:39Okay, thank you.

3:22:40If you want to wait right there, committee members,

3:22:42do you have any questions of this applicant?

3:22:45Seeing none, thank you very much.

3:22:47If you want to wait right there,

3:22:48I will ask if there are any members of the public

3:22:53who wish to address this.

3:22:55Seeing none in the gallery, are there any online?

3:22:59Chair Smith, I can confirm we do have a doubt.

3:23:02Delegate via phone and the name is Christine Robinson.

3:23:07Can you hear me?

3:23:09Hello, can you hear me?

3:23:10I can.

3:23:11Can you state your name for the record please?

3:23:28Certainly Christine Robinson.

3:23:31Christine, welcome.

3:23:32You have 10 minutes to address the committee.

3:23:36Thank you.

3:23:36I won't need 10.

3:23:37I just was hoping to ask a few questions.

3:23:43I'm an interested neighbor who's off the pathway

3:23:48next to where the construction is being proposed.

3:23:51And just right off the top,

3:23:54I'm not opposed to the idea of the extension.

3:23:59I'm just curious about timing and approach

3:24:03and how noise and construction materials

3:24:07and debris are being used to address this.

3:24:12And I understand that there might not be a zoning issue

3:24:18yet at this point, but that would be my major concern

3:24:22because there's multiple neighbors that would be impacted.

3:24:28Well, thank you for being brief.

3:24:30I will ask that question of city staff.

3:24:34City staff, is there something that you can help elucidate

3:24:39this neighbor's query?

3:24:42Through the chair, we, to the chair,

3:24:45we are looking at the noise by-law again,

3:24:50which does regulate construction hours.

3:24:55So the operation of construction equipment

3:24:58is restricted from 7 p.m. to 7 a.m. Monday to Friday.

3:25:04And that's 7 p.m. to 9 a.m. on Saturdays

3:25:07and then all times on Sundays and holidays.

3:25:11There shall be no construction then.

3:25:13And in terms of construction debris,

3:25:17they would need to maintain that on their property.

3:25:20Thank you.

3:25:21Thank you.

3:25:23Committee members, do you have any questions of the delegate?

3:25:31Seeing none, thank you very much for your question

3:25:35and your support.

3:25:38If, I hope that's answered your question.

3:25:42It has.

3:25:44If I could just elaborate,

3:25:46there's probably no elaboration required

3:25:49for many committee members on this.

3:25:52Part of the reason why I decided to join tonight

3:25:55is that it just so happens that there are two different

3:26:01zoning by-law changes being proposed tonight

3:26:04by two different parties,

3:26:06one that would be to the left of us

3:26:08and one that would be directly behind us.

3:26:11And because we operate two home-based businesses,

3:26:14one of them that is a backyard office

3:26:20that operates during those construction hours,

3:26:24our big concern is that we may be surrounded by construction

3:26:28and that we would be unable to operate our home-based businesses.

3:26:32So I understand the by-law restrictions

3:26:36and it's of particular importance to us

3:26:40to be able to know that if the zoning change is approved,

3:26:45that it will be a livable situation for us

3:26:49that would allow us to continue to earn a living

3:26:51as we do at the moment.

3:26:55Well, just as a point of clarification,

3:26:59ma'am, as a point of clarification,

3:27:01this is not a zoning change, this is a minor variance.

3:27:04And so the existing structure, in my understanding,

3:27:08is just-

3:27:09I'm using the wrong language, yes, thank you.

3:27:11Yep.

3:27:14Thank you for your participation.

3:27:16At this point, I'll entertain a motion from my colleagues.

3:27:22Do I have a motion?

3:27:24Member Goodfellow.

3:27:27I motion to approve this application with no conditions.

3:27:31Do I have a seconder?

3:27:33Member Pike.

3:27:35Any discussion on the motion?

3:27:39Seeing none, I'll turn this over to Madam Secretary Treasurer.

3:27:44Thank you, Chair, Committee members,

3:27:46please indicate your vote on the application or the motion,

3:27:50which is to approve the application.

3:27:52Chair Smith.

3:27:53In favor.

3:27:55Member Klein.

3:27:56In favor.

3:27:57Member Goodfellow.

3:27:59In favor.

3:28:00Member Hamilton.

3:28:01In favor.

3:28:02Member Pike.

3:28:04In favor.

3:28:05Member Sair.

3:28:06In favor.

3:28:07And Member Spears.

3:28:08In favor.

3:28:08That's carried, Chair.

3:28:10Your application has been approved.

3:28:12You may leave the meeting.

3:28:13Thank you.

3:28:14Thank you for your attention.

3:28:20Madam Secretary Treasurer,

3:28:21may we have the next application?

3:28:29The next application is file A-34 slash 23,

3:28:32variances to permit reduced side yard setback

3:28:34and increased height for proposed

3:28:36additional residential dwelling unit

3:28:38within a separate building at 204 Alma Street North.

3:28:42I'll note for those watching remotely,

3:28:43if you wish to speak to this application,

3:28:45you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen.

3:28:48That number is 519-822-1260, extension 2524.

3:28:57Is the applicant present?

3:28:58Ah, yes.

3:29:00Please approach the microphone

3:29:01and seek your name for the record, please.

3:29:09If you push the button there.

3:29:13My name is Malcolm Carter.

3:29:15And the relationship to the-

3:29:18I'm an owner of the building, the property.

3:29:21And was the sign posted as per the planning?

3:29:23Yes.

3:29:24Thank you.

3:29:2510 minutes to address the committee.

3:29:28I read on the comments here,

3:29:32and I'd like to address some of the issues.

3:29:35I'm looking at variance A,

3:29:40which was the biggest part of the variance issue here

3:29:44is the side yard setback, the garage,

3:29:46the neighboring property.

3:29:48And the existing structure is concrete block.

3:29:55And there's no windows or doors or anything

3:30:02facing the neighbor's yard.

3:30:04There is no, or there currently is a garage door

3:30:09that is within the 1.2 meters,

3:30:11but that will be blocked up on any conversion.

3:30:16So there would be no opening going less than,

3:30:21suggested 1.2 meters from the property line.

3:30:25And then as to saying the variance here,

3:30:34we, there was a question about the,

3:30:38there was no drawing showing

3:30:40if I was going to change the height and or add

3:30:44in addition to the garage,

3:30:45we're not changing the footprint at all.

3:30:47The existing footprint will stay.

3:30:50The garage may go up to, I'd ask for a variance

3:30:54on the height of two five meters,

3:30:56but I will not exceed the existing

3:31:00height of the main dwelling unit,

3:31:04which is, I think I measured it at 4.77 meters.

3:31:08And the garage is currently at 3.69.

3:31:11So it might go up a couple of layers of concrete blocks.

3:31:22It was a question here about maintenance to the,

3:31:30doing maintenance on one side of the building,

3:31:33the garage concrete block.

3:31:35I'm not really going to do a whole lot of maintenance to it.

3:31:38There was a comment from building services

3:31:41that it might have to be clad with a fire,

3:31:44a fire, a fire rated material, steel siding.

3:31:50I'm more than willing to do that if that,

3:31:52and that might even make a look a little prettier

3:31:53to the neighbor.

3:31:57And there was a comment that there was enough space

3:32:10on the property to relocate the building.

3:32:14That would be a considerable extra cost

3:32:18and certainly increase my carbon footprint.

3:32:22So if the committee here has any questions,

3:32:28I'm here to answer them.

3:32:32Thank you.

3:32:33And I take it from your response and the,

3:32:36may I say very good answer to the questions presented

3:32:42it's very thorough.

3:32:44I assume that you have read staff's comments

3:32:47and you're in agreement.

3:32:50Are you in agreement?

3:32:51I understand their comments.

3:32:55I'm not necessarily in an agreement to decline the request

3:33:01for a reduction in the setback.

3:33:04I'm sorry, could you repeat that?

3:33:05I'm not in agreement to the side yard setback

3:33:10to decline that variance adjustment.

3:33:16Okay, thank you.

3:33:18Do we have any members of the audience

3:33:20who would like to address this issue?

3:33:24Seeing none, I'm going to ask if there were any,

3:33:28if there are any who are online.

3:33:32Chair Smith, I can confirm no delegation requests.

3:33:36Thank you.

3:33:36At this point, if you'd like to stand by,

3:33:40perhaps members of our committee

3:33:42would like to ask you some further questions.

3:33:45Sure.

3:33:46Many members, are there any questions for this applicant?

3:33:54Seeing none, I do have a question.

3:33:57I note that on the existing building

3:34:00is set quite a distance back from the main street.

3:34:05And I noticed that the buildings to the,

3:34:10say right and left are quite a bit forward.

3:34:14I wonder if you would accept a condition

3:34:16that would impose the setbacks to whatever,

3:34:23well, no, that can't, I'm answering my own question.

3:34:27So I withdraw my comment.

3:34:29This is a severance issue.

3:34:31So I'm not even going to raise it, forgive me.

3:34:35Any other questions?

3:34:40At this point, I will entertain a motion on this,

3:34:46and I will move to the second one.

3:34:50Member Spears.

3:34:52I'd like to move that we accept the proposal

3:34:55with the condition that the height of the ARDU

3:34:59does not exceed the height of the main building.

3:35:03Thank you.

3:35:04And do I have a seconder?

3:35:09Member Klein, do we have any discussion on this?

3:35:17Member Goodfellow.

3:35:19Yes, I did visit the site earlier today

3:35:24and spent some time looking at the orientation of the site

3:35:27and the distances between some of the buildings.

3:35:31Although it is a large lot,

3:35:34the orientation is such that I have concerns

3:35:36about allowing for optimum privacy

3:35:40for both the occupants of the new

3:35:42additional residential dwelling unit

3:35:45and the primary dwelling and the neighbors.

3:35:48And so for that reason, I intend to,

3:35:51I tend to be opposed to this motion.

3:35:55Thank you.

3:35:56Do I have any other comments on the motion?

3:36:00Member Klein.

3:36:04Yes, I seconded the motion because I'm in favor of it.

3:36:10This application is very similar to the application

3:36:13that came forward a couple of months ago

3:36:14on Speedville Avenue with the ARDU

3:36:17within the detached garage.

3:36:19And I was in favor of that application too.

3:36:22Again, it comes down to the need for housing

3:36:25within our community.

3:36:28I understand that council approved regulations for ARDUs

3:36:33back in 2020, including the setback requirement,

3:36:36but I think since 2020, a lot has changed

3:36:42in terms of the need for housing.

3:36:47And as recent as I think February or March of 2020,

3:36:53this year, council approved a housing pledge

3:36:56to build 16,000 units within our community.

3:37:01So I am definitely in favor of this.

3:37:03I think we need more of these.

3:37:05And I think there are other ways to address

3:37:08the privacy issue like fencing, vegetation, no windows

3:37:15on that side of the garage.

3:37:19So again, I'm in favor of this application.

3:37:26Thank you.

3:37:27Any other comments?

3:37:33Seeing none.

3:37:34Oh, sorry.

3:37:36Yeah, thanks.

3:37:38I would just like to echo member clients comments.

3:37:41I'd be in favor of this also, I wouldn't refuse it.

3:37:46Member Goodfellow.

3:37:47And just to follow up comment to that as well,

3:37:50because in the prior application, I was in favor of that

3:37:56and I actually spent some time kind of looking

3:37:59to understand the difference in the orientation

3:38:02I think where I am coming down is that this one is just,

3:38:06it's actually about four meters closer.

3:38:09And so that is the distinction that I have drawn.

3:38:12So I wanted to make that clarification.

3:38:16Thank you.

3:38:17That's good information.

3:38:19And with that, I'm going to turn it over

3:38:23to the secretary treasurer for our vote.

3:38:27Thank you, chairsman.

3:38:28And before I get into the voting,

3:38:30I just wanted to note that member Hamilton

3:38:32has left the meeting.

3:38:33So he won't be voting.

3:38:34Thank you.

3:38:35So we still have corn.

3:38:36Yes.

3:38:38Many members, please indicate your vote

3:38:40by responding in favor or opposed to the motion,

3:38:42which is to approve the application with the condition

3:38:46that the height of the ARDU does not exceed

3:38:49the height of the main building.

3:38:51Chair Smith.

3:38:53Opposed.

3:38:55Member Klein.

3:38:56In favor.

3:38:58Member Goodfellow.

3:38:59Opposed.

3:39:01Member Pike.

3:39:03Opposed.

3:39:05Member Seher.

3:39:07In favor.

3:39:09Member Spears.

3:39:10In favor.

3:39:15That's tied, chair.

3:39:18I'm looking for some advice.

3:39:19My understanding of Robert's rules of order

3:39:22is that that fails.

3:39:25Chair Smith, that's correct.

3:39:26That motion's defeated.

3:39:29Your motion has been defeated.

3:39:36And you're free to leave the,

3:39:39oh, sorry.

3:39:42Go ahead, secretary treasurer.

3:39:44Chair Smith, we will need another,

3:39:46the committee can decide to put another motion on the floor

3:39:49or they wish to defer the application.

3:39:51We will need some sort of decision.

3:39:55That's correct.

3:39:56We either need another motion or we need to defer.

3:40:02I'll entertain either.

3:40:11I'll make a motion to defer.

3:40:13A motion to defer.

3:40:15Can I have a seconder?

3:40:21Sorry, member Pike.

3:40:25There is no debate on that.

3:40:28However, I will ask the applicant

3:40:31if they approve, if they would be in favor of a deferral.

3:40:37Sorry, I understand a deferral would put it over

3:40:39to the following month.

3:40:43That would depend on you coming back to the committee.

3:40:48I believe you have one year in order

3:40:50to come back to the committee.

3:40:52All right, so I noticed that on the comments here,

3:40:55they were looking for some additional drawings.

3:40:58And when I submitted my application to the committee,

3:41:02I only provided the site plan

3:41:03because that's all that they asked for.

3:41:06But a deferral will give me time

3:41:08to do some additional drawings

3:41:10and get some better sketches

3:41:12and better information for the committee.

3:41:15So that's fine with me.

3:41:18Okay, I'll turn it over to Secretary Tresher for a vote.

3:41:24Thank you, Chair.

3:41:24Committee members, please indicate your vote

3:41:26by responding in favor or opposed to the motion to defer.

3:41:29Chair Smith.

3:41:30In favor.

3:41:31Member Klein.

3:41:33In favor.

3:41:34Member Goodfellow.

3:41:35In favor.

3:41:36Member Pike.

3:41:37In favor.

3:41:38Member Seher.

3:41:40In favor.

3:41:40And member Spears.

3:41:41In favor.

3:41:42That's carried, Chair.

3:41:43Your motion has been deferred

3:41:45and you can come back and see us again sometime.

3:41:49Thank you for your time and your patience.

3:41:54Secretary Tresher, do we have another applicant?

3:42:04The next application is file B-8-23,

3:42:07consent to create one new residential lot

3:42:09and one retained residential lot at 51 Hazel Wood Drive.

3:42:14I will note for the committee,

3:42:15as well as those attending that correspondence

3:42:17was received after the comment deadline

3:42:19from Bob and Katie Nichols

3:42:20with concerns about the application,

3:42:22as well correspondence from the owner,

3:42:26acknowledging staff and public comments

3:42:28has also been received and forwarded

3:42:31to the committee members as well.

3:42:33If you're attending this hearing remotely

3:42:35and wish to speak to this application,

3:42:37you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen,

3:42:39that phone number is 519-822-1260, extension 2524.

3:42:49Is the applicant present?

3:42:52Yes, so please come forward

3:42:54and state your name for the record, please.

3:43:03My name is Dr. Bahar-Esm.

3:43:06Welcome, and as I've been saying to most people

3:43:09since our break, thank you for your patience.

3:43:11And can you tell me if you posted the sign

3:43:15as per the planning?

3:43:16Yes, I did.

3:43:17Thank you.

3:43:18And have you read staff's comments

3:43:19and are you in agreement?

3:43:21Yes, I have gone through the comments.

3:43:23Awesome.

3:43:24You have 10 minutes in which to make your case,

3:43:28so please go ahead.

3:43:29Thank you, Chair and the members of the committee.

3:43:32And I'd like to thank you all

3:43:33for giving me the opportunity to present my case.

3:43:38So we have some, I have submitted this application

3:43:41because I'm the owner of this property.

3:43:44I would like to build a new home for my family.

3:43:47My family is bigger now.

3:43:50My son is got married

3:43:51and my daughter will be getting married soon.

3:43:54That's why this is a beautiful neighborhood.

3:43:56I live in Guelph for the last 16, 17 years.

3:44:00And most importantly, I'm a professional engineer.

3:44:03Experiencing over 35 years.

3:44:06And I'd like to give thank you to the city staff

3:44:08as given valuable comments.

3:44:10Mostly most of the comments I agree.

3:44:12And I'd like to follow those comments

3:44:15so that the new lot can be developed

3:44:17because in Ontario we have a housing shortage.

3:44:20And if you can have a beautiful home built

3:44:23within the following the law.

3:44:25This lot follows the existing by law, R1B

3:44:29and also follows the RL1.

3:44:32And it will be following the city bylaws,

3:44:36tree removal, inventories and whatever it requires.

3:44:38And as required by the city building

3:44:41we'll be following that one to build a home.

3:44:43I just have a one comment

3:44:44because I'm a professional engineer.

3:44:46I do have a lot of experience

3:44:48with working with the construction as well.

3:44:50So I requested my written comment

3:44:52that we can retain a contractor

3:44:55with the city approved contractor

3:44:57so that we can do the servicing of all the work.

3:45:00We'll be providing the SOAM water management,

3:45:02drainage, additional sediment control

3:45:05including our whatever environment of the request required

3:45:08we'll be following the law of the land

3:45:10and then build a new home here.

3:45:12Thank you so much.

3:45:15Thank you very much.

3:45:17Committee members, no, sorry.

3:45:19Are there any people in the audience

3:45:22who wish to speak to this motion?

3:45:25Seeing,

3:45:27we do have one.

3:45:33If you want to wait right there,

3:45:35one of your fellow citizens would like to speak to this.

3:45:47Can you state your name for the record please?

3:45:51Bob Nichols.

3:45:53You have 10 minutes to address the committee.

3:45:56I'll be brief.

3:45:57I know it's a slam dunk.

3:45:58I just want to have my peace.

3:46:00My wife and I built our home at 47 Hazelwood Drive

3:46:02in June, 1989.

3:46:04We're the home directly adjacent to the proposed severed

3:46:06lots and hence we'll be affected most by the proposed changes.

3:46:10Our enjoyment of our property will likely be negatively

3:46:12impacted by the severance of construction.

3:46:15In search of a new house in mature neighborhood

3:46:18can negatively affect the character of the neighborhood

3:46:20due to its appearance, size and position on the property.

3:46:25It may look starkly new and not blend in

3:46:27with the character of Hazelwood neighborhood.

3:46:30We hope that the owner will consult with his neighbors

3:46:32before any work begins.

3:46:35In a written submission, we commented on the loss

3:46:38of many mature trees.

3:46:40In order to build in this severed lot,

3:46:41it will likely be necessary to clear cut trees

3:46:44to at least the depth of our lot and perhaps beyond.

3:46:48It's a significant loss of bird habitat,

3:46:51shade, privacy and environmental benefits.

3:46:54In a city characterized as tree huggers,

3:46:56it's hard to imagine that this can happen.

3:46:59We recently came aware that the original survey plan

3:47:02is to demolish the house and create three lots.

3:47:04Owners can change their minds.

3:47:07However, giving the existing house at Fisker and Hazelwood

3:47:11such much higher above the street level than neighboring homes,

3:47:14there was significant grade difference to our house.

3:47:17Although the city has indicated that this can be handled,

3:47:19perhaps a better, more gradual grading

3:47:21could have been accomplished if three lots were dealt with at once.

3:47:25This might have been better land use planning.

3:47:28In order to preserve the character of the neighborhood

3:47:30in the future, I wonder if the community

3:47:33can attach a condition of approval in its decision

3:47:36requiring that the remaining 51 Hazelwood lot,

3:47:40if ever, can be subdivided into only two

3:47:43of equal frontage on Hazelwood.

3:47:46This would ensure that the lots have consistent frontage

3:47:51with most homes on Hazelwood

3:47:53and perhaps help to preserve the character of the neighborhood.

3:47:57We acknowledge that any owner has the right

3:47:58to develop their properties they choose

3:48:00within the city's bylaws and plans.

3:48:02We hope that the owner will consult with his neighbors

3:48:06in an effort to minimize any adverse effects

3:48:09to the character of Hazelwood Drive

3:48:11and its enjoyment by all residents.

3:48:13Thank you for this opportunity to address the committee.

3:48:18Thank you. If you want to wait right there,

3:48:19I'll see if my colleagues have any questions.

3:48:25Seeing none, thank you again for your time and your patience.

3:48:29I neglected to ask the proponent

3:48:32if there were any questions of him

3:48:36and I'm gonna ask my colleagues if they have any questions.

3:48:42No, they don't.

3:48:43So, sorry, false alarm.

3:48:48At this point, I'm going to see if there was any,

3:48:52oh, there are, there's one delegate online,

3:48:55so please state your name for the record.

3:49:00Chair Smith, we do have another delegate,

3:49:02Mark Willis O'Connor over the phone.

3:49:06Thank you. If the delegate can hear me,

3:49:08state your name for the record, please.

3:49:48Chair Smith, if you'll just give us a moment

3:49:50where we are trying to get the delegate back in here.

3:49:54Thank you.

3:50:07Hello, can you hear us? Yes.

3:50:13Hi, Chair, hi, committee.

3:50:15Can you state your name for the record, please?

3:50:18Yes, it's Mark Willis O'Connor.

3:50:20Thank you for giving me the time to speak today.

3:50:23You have 10 minutes to address the committee.

3:50:27Thank you.

3:50:29Thank you, Chair.

3:50:30Our family owns four Pintel Court,

3:50:32which backs directly onto 51 Hazelwood Drive.

3:50:3651 Hazelwood includes large 100 foot plus

3:50:39mature spruce trees,

3:50:40located between neighboring properties, including ours.

3:50:44We submitted comments which attach photos of the trees

3:50:46from our backyard and an aerial photo,

3:50:49which is dated from approximately 60 years ago.

3:50:52The trees were mature then,

3:50:54so you can imagine that their age is even older still.

3:50:5851 Hazelwood fronts directly across from Hazelwood Trail.

3:51:03If you look at the current footprint

3:51:04of the proposed dwelling that was included

3:51:06on the survey or sketch,

3:51:07this would result in the removal of all

3:51:09or almost all of the trees from the property.

3:51:12I would hope that the applicant could confirm if possible,

3:51:16if that is actually the intended footprint of the dwelling.

3:51:18I know the letters that were submitted in the comments

3:51:21ask this very question.

3:51:24But if that is indeed gonna be the size

3:51:26of the proposed dwelling,

3:51:28the effect on the neighborhood,

3:51:29both for the surrounding properties

3:51:30and the many residents who use Hazelwood Trail every day

3:51:33would be quite striking.

3:51:36And this proposed development would take place

3:51:37in a mature neighborhood.

3:51:39This is different than a development in a remote

3:51:41or newer area of the city

3:51:43that isn't as mature and developed.

3:51:45This development should therefore be compatible

3:51:47with the existing neighborhood

3:51:49with the homes that people have lived in for 30 plus years.

3:51:54The tree bylaw includes protections

3:51:55given the size of the property.

3:51:57And we're certainly hopeful that staff

3:51:59will prioritize the preservation

3:52:01of as many trees as possible.

3:52:03But unfortunately, that process will not be open

3:52:04to the public.

3:52:06And the alternatives in the bylaw to tree preservation,

3:52:09such as planting replacement trees

3:52:11or cashing new thereof,

3:52:13would be inadequate to the residents of the neighborhood.

3:52:15These trees are irreplaceable given their size and age.

3:52:18They would literally take multiple generations

3:52:22in order to reach that size

3:52:24and provide the privacy and shade

3:52:26and character to the neighborhood

3:52:28that they currently provide.

3:52:30The committee has the authority to have conditions

3:52:32that would help strike a reasonable balance

3:52:34so that the severance would remain

3:52:36in the best interest of the community.

3:52:38This is in fact, one of the conditions

3:52:40that the committee is to consider in granting a severance.

3:52:44Sorry, one of the criteria to consider.

3:52:46Section 6J of the tree bylaw includes a catch-off criterion

3:52:50that an inspector shall consider

3:52:52when deciding whether or not to issue a permit.

3:52:54This includes the consideration of any approvals

3:52:57that may be required.

3:52:59Based on my reading of the other criteria

3:53:01in that section six,

3:53:03none of them consider the best interest of the community

3:53:05or the integration into the existing neighborhood.

3:53:09Based on that, in order to bolster the potential

3:53:12to preserve these trees,

3:53:13I believe it would be reasonable to add as a condition

3:53:16that the proposed dwelling be required

3:53:18to reasonably integrate the existing trees

3:53:20adjacent to the boundary of the severed lands.

3:53:23So these are the ones closest to the boundary.

3:53:25It shouldn't affect being able to build

3:53:28a large home on the land.

3:53:30So that they integrate the existing trees

3:53:32adjacent to the boundary of the severed land

3:53:34to the approval planning services

3:53:36or other appropriate city staff.

3:53:38Thanks very much for your time.

3:53:42Thank you very much.

3:53:43I'm going to ask you to stand by for a moment

3:53:45and see if any of the members of the committee

3:53:47would have any questions for you.

3:53:50Committee members?

3:53:53Seeing none.

3:53:56I'm gonna use this opportunity to ask a question of staff.

3:54:01On the severed lot,

3:54:04I do note that the existing house is set pretty far back.

3:54:10Would it be possible to have a maximum setback

3:54:17required for the new building on the severed lot

3:54:21so that it was more in keeping with the rest

3:54:23of the neighborhood?

3:54:24Is that a condition that could be entertained?

3:54:31Through the chair.

3:54:34I personally don't think that's an appropriate condition,

3:54:37but I know that there has been conditions like that

3:54:41in the past imposed to future dwellings,

3:54:45but I think that there are bylaw requirements

3:54:49as per the zoning bylaw that would limit

3:54:52or require certain front yard setbacks,

3:54:54side yard setbacks and rear yard setbacks

3:54:57in accordance with the R1B zone.

3:55:01And it would really be no different than another property

3:55:06being able to build an addition or something like that

3:55:10to the maximum zoning setback.

3:55:11So if committee feels that's an appropriate condition

3:55:14and they wanna impose it, I think that's fine.

3:55:17Like I have seen in the past,

3:55:18but I personally don't think it's an appropriate condition.

3:55:21I guess my question is based on the trees,

3:55:27quite mature and substantial trees that are on the lot

3:55:30and how the existing retained dwelling sits quite a distance

3:55:36back, it's not in keeping with the rest of the neighborhood.

3:55:40And so in addition, pardon me, a new build on the severed lot,

3:55:47in my opinion, should come out to the street

3:55:52at a remote equal to the adjacent properties.

3:55:55And the other part of that is the tree bylaw,

3:56:01that are pardon me, the mature trees,

3:56:03that it would tend to lessen the impact

3:56:06on the trees that would have to come down.

3:56:09I'd like to hear staff opine on that.

3:56:12I know you've already given your opinion,

3:56:15but I wonder if there's, based on my comments,

3:56:19if there's any other opinions.

3:56:25So to the chair, I was just looking at an air photo

3:56:30provided by my colleague.

3:56:31And it looks like the neighboring property,

3:56:37if you're looking at it from the street to the right,

3:56:39it looks like their front yard setback is quite

3:56:42further ahead of the existing house at number 51.

3:56:48So a lot of neighborhoods have varying front yard setbacks,

3:56:53lot frontages.

3:56:55I don't think a front yard setback is what

3:57:00defines the character of a neighborhood.

3:57:02There's other things.

3:57:04With respect to the tree bylaw,

3:57:07we have included a condition with regards

3:57:10to the tree inventory and preservation plan.

3:57:13And through that review, our landscape architect

3:57:17does review the plans.

3:57:19And if there's like specific trees

3:57:21that we want to superserve,

3:57:22he has asked in the past for some building location

3:57:26to be modified.

3:57:27However, I don't think it's really an appropriate condition

3:57:30for the committee to impose.

3:57:31I think it's more of a staff level review.

3:57:34And knowing that they still have to meet

3:57:37the requirements of the zoning bylaw.

3:57:38And there are, looking at the air photo,

3:57:41it does look like there are other

3:57:43existing single detached houses with setbacks

3:57:48that are in front of number 51.

3:57:52Thank you for that.

3:57:53I do appreciate your expert opinion on that.

3:57:58I know that from the correspondence we've heard

3:58:02and from the delegate,

3:58:05are both delegations that preserving the mature trees

3:58:09are our front of mind for many of the neighbors.

3:58:13And I know that the applicant has mentioned

3:58:16that they want to consider the trees on any future build.

3:58:21So thank you for that.

3:58:23Sorry, I've been a little more long-winded

3:58:25than I intended to be.

3:58:27Committee members, do we have any other questions?

3:58:34Seeing none, I'm going to entertain a motion.

3:58:38Do I have a mover?

3:58:45All right, member good fellow.

3:58:50So I motion to approve this application

3:58:53with the conditions as outlined by city staff.

3:58:56Thank you.

3:58:57Do I have a seconder?

3:59:00Member Klein, any discussion on the motion?

3:59:07Seeing none, I will turn it over

3:59:09to Madam Secretary Treasurer for a vote.

3:59:12Thank you, Chair.

3:59:13Committee members, please indicate your vote

3:59:15by responding in favor or opposed to the motion,

3:59:17which is to approve the application

3:59:20with the recommended conditions.

3:59:22Chair Smith.

3:59:23In favor.

3:59:24Member Klein.

3:59:25In favor.

3:59:27Member Goodfellow.

3:59:28In favor.

3:59:29Member Hamilton, or member Hamilton is absent.

3:59:32Member Pike.

3:59:33In favor.

3:59:34Member Seher.

3:59:40Opposed.

3:59:42And member Spears.

3:59:43In favor.

3:59:44That's carried, Chair.

3:59:47Thank you.

3:59:47Your application has been approved.

3:59:50You're free to leave the meeting

3:59:52and thank you for your patience.

3:59:59Madam Secretary Treasurer.

4:00:00May we have the next application?

4:00:02The next application is file 8-35-23,

4:00:10variance to permit reduced side yard setback for proposed two-story addition at the rear of the existing dwelling at 92 Heron Street.

4:00:17For those attending remotely, if you wish to speak to this application, you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen.

4:00:24That is 519-822-1260 extension 2524.

4:00:30Is the applicant present?

4:00:32Ah, yes, please come forward to the microphone.

4:00:41Thank you. Please state your name for the record.

4:00:44Ann Marie McGarregal.

4:00:46Welcome and thank you for your patience on this evening.

4:00:51And can you tell me if the sign was posted as per the planning act?

4:00:56Yes, sir.

4:00:57Thank you. You have 10 minutes in which to address the committee.

4:01:00Thank you.

4:01:01Probably the quickest one of the evening.

4:01:04I've lived in my home since 2006 and I'm just hoping to replace the back portion of my house with the two-story addition to make it

4:01:13just a better home for us to live in.

4:01:15I'm requesting a variance to allow for the reduced side yard setback.

4:01:19My current footprint for my house wouldn't change.

4:01:25But right now it is too close to the property line for the bylaws.

4:01:29And I've read it sounds like everybody wants to approve.

4:01:36So you have read the comments from staff and you are in agreement.

4:01:39Awesome. At this point, I will turn to my committee colleagues and see if there are any questions for you.

4:01:46If you'd want to wait there, please do committee members. Do we have any questions of this applicant?

4:01:52I see shaking heads at this point. Are there any delegations either online or in the gallery?

4:02:03Chair Smith, I can confirm that we haven't received any delegation requests.

4:02:07Thank you very much. At this point now we turn to the committee and I will entertain a motion.

4:02:17Member Sayers.

4:02:19Move to approve.

4:02:21We have a seconder.

4:02:26Member Pike.

4:02:30Madam Secretary Treasurer, please call the vote.

4:02:36Thank you, Chair. Committee members, please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion, which is to approve the application.

4:02:42Chair Smith.

4:02:44In favor.

4:02:44Member Klein.

4:02:46In favor.

4:02:47Member Goodfellow.

4:02:48In favor.

4:02:49Member Pike.

4:02:51In favor.

4:02:51Member Sayer.

4:02:53In favor.

4:02:53And Member Spears.

4:02:55In favor.

4:02:55That's carried, Chair.

4:02:57Your application has been approved. You're free to leave the meeting. Thank you.

4:03:02Madam Secretary Treasurer, may we have the next application?

4:03:22The next application is file A-36-23.

4:03:27Variances to permit location of garbage and refuse storage, outdoor storage, loading spaces and principal entrance,

4:03:34increased building height, decreased parking aisle width, and increased front yard setback for proposed cold storage and manufacturing facility at 384 Carly Road.

4:03:44I'll also note for those attending remotely, if you wish to speak to this application, you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen.

4:03:51That number is 519-822-1260.

4:03:56Extension 2524.

4:03:59Thank you, Liz. The applicant present.

4:04:02Good evening, and please approach the microphone and seek your name for the record.

4:04:10Thank you, Chair and members of committee. My name is David Folletta, and I'm a registered professional planner with Bells Fields. We're the planning agent on the file.

4:04:19Thank you, and was the sign posted for the, as per the Planning Act?

4:04:23It was.

4:04:25Thank you. You have, um,

4:04:28my condolences for waiting this long, but I appreciate your patience and you have 10 minutes to address the committee.

4:04:35On no condolences necessary. I'll be brief. I will note that,

4:04:39um, in attendance with me is Evan Sugden, who's a senior planner with our firm, as well as there's a number of,

4:04:48members from the ownership group, as well as the consulting team here to answer any of your questions.

4:04:53It's a very exciting project that we're here for, and we're very happy and supportive of staff's recommendations. So I'll be brief.

4:05:00Thank you for posting the,

4:05:03the presentation on the screen.

4:05:06If you can flip to the next slide, please, in terms of an agenda, I just want to briefly go over the site's location.

4:05:15Who the operator is, what the proposed development is made up of, the requested variances, which you heard a bit about today,

4:05:22as well as the tests and then, uh, a brief conclusion.

4:05:26Again, I think staff did a fantastic job. We're fully supportive of its recommendation as well as,

4:05:32um, as well as the proposed conditions associated with the approval.

4:05:37Um, we know where the site is, so I'll briefly outline it. It's on the east side of, uh, Hanlon Parkway north of Maltby Road.

4:05:45And it represents, uh, the extension.

4:05:47Uh, um, excuse me here.

4:05:52Using my, uh, my place in my presentation here.

4:06:00Of Southgate Drive, sorry.

4:06:02Next slide, please. So it's located within the Southgate Drive, uh, business park, which we know is, uh, an area for employment uses such as the proposed use.

4:06:11You know, brief overview in terms of what, um, who knew cold is, um, and what they do.

4:06:18As you heard in, uh, in the application materials, uh, which are very fulsome, um, they provide innovative cold storage and logistic solutions for the food industry.

4:06:29They have an automated storage and retrieval system, so it's very innovative. It's very advanced.

4:06:35And it provides energy efficient facilities with, uh, specific, uh, sustainable building elements. So they've got a very, uh, important, uh, task of building very with, with, uh,

4:06:47building in a unique, uh, environment as well as building in a sustainable way.

4:06:52Uh, they operate 15 facilities in 3 continents across the world. And this is their 1st project in Canada.

4:06:58And they've chosen Ontario and Guelph specifically because of all of the agricultural and food related activity that's happening in the, in the city.

4:07:07Um,

4:07:09Next slide, please.

4:07:10Just wanted to highlight the locations, which again, you've probably seen in the package materials.

4:07:15Again, where they're located across the world. Next slide, please.

4:07:19There's a brief video that we've included with this package.

4:07:22Should you wish to learn a little bit more about how the operation works? But again, it's very unique.

4:07:27It uses a lot of technology. It uses very advanced, um, uh,

4:07:33tools to operate and make sure that all of the food is secure. All of the food is temperature controlled air controlled.

4:07:42And all of these elements are intended to not only lower the efficiency of the building,

4:07:48but also make sure that the quality of the products that are being stored and, um,

4:07:53circulated around the area, um, are done so in a very sustainable way.

4:07:59Next slide, please.

4:08:01In terms of the proposed development, uh, the intention is to build a campus, uh, of, uh,

4:08:07A campus for new coal that will accommodate all of its logistical and operations,

4:08:13As well as its office and manufacturing facilities to, uh, to package this.

4:08:18And that's exactly what's intended by the official plan and the zoning bylaw.

4:08:21This is the type of use that's permitted on this site. I just wanted to highlight some of the key, um,

4:08:29Development elements in terms of how much space and those are the elements that are on on the screen for you today.

4:08:34We know that there's a 14,000 square meter or 150 square, 1,000 square feet, uh, of warehousing.

4:08:40There's a dispatch warehouse office space, which is about 10,000 square feet, uh, a new municipal stormwater, uh,

4:08:48management facility, as well as the extension of Stonegate drive. Uh, next slide, please.

4:08:54Um, we've also included in the package the full plan and we know that over, uh, over the long term,

4:09:00It's going to build out over five phases. They're different colors. The first phase is in green.

4:09:04The reason we've highlighted, uh, the phasing plan for you today is because of the phasing,

4:09:10It's, it's requiring some of the variances, uh, for setbacks. Um, I won't go in through it all,

4:09:16But, uh, I think the highlights are that there will be multiple buildings,

4:09:20servicing, uh, a really important business as well as protecting the natural heritage systems.

4:09:25You see everything to the east. And if you visited the site, you know that there are natural heritage elements

4:09:29on site. We've heard from the Grand River Conservation Authority that they're supportive of the

4:09:34application, uh, specifically as it relates to the protection of the wetlands. And we know that

4:09:39that's, uh, another process that will ensure its protection through the site plan application process.

4:09:44Next slide, please.

4:09:47Just wanted to highlight for you the, uh, the first phase of development, which you see here,

4:09:51and that again shows the extension of Southgate drive, which will turn and connect, uh, to the west,

4:09:58as well as the, uh, the proposal to add the new warehouse building, the dispatch warehouse,

4:10:03office space, and the, uh, and the parking and loading associated with it. So that's the gray

4:10:09building in the center. The green areas are obviously the proposed landscape areas. Uh,

4:10:13and I'll get to that in a minute when we go through the variances. Next slide, please.

4:10:19Just some key statistics about, uh, about the development. Uh, we know that, uh, the size of

4:10:24the buildings, uh, amount to 32,000, uh, just over 32,000, uh, square, square meters of gross

4:10:33floor area, building height of a 46 meters, which is a significant increase from the bylaw, but we'll

4:10:38get into that in a moment. And that's because the way it operates, it's a fully automated system,

4:10:43and it has mechanical equipment. Uh, and they found, uh, a system that is the most efficient

4:10:49based on that module. And that's why the building height is required. And that's part of the rationale

4:10:54that we provided for you. Uh, we also acknowledge that phase one includes 163, uh, vehicle parking

4:11:00spaces, 123, uh, truck parking spaces, as well as electrical, uh, uh, vehicle parking, again,

4:11:07maintaining that and continuing on with the sustainable, uh, building elements that, uh,

4:11:12are associated with this operation. Next slide, please. I'm speaking very quickly because it's

4:11:1710 minutes and I'm trying to be quick. Uh, we wanted to highlight for you the, uh, the increase

4:11:22in height. We know those are the first two variances. Um, we've created some views to

4:11:27identify what the, the view impacts would be. We also acknowledge as part of our rationale

4:11:32that it is, uh, found already within the official plan in terms of, uh, being permitted. So OPA 80

4:11:38was recently approved. We all know this and it establishes the site specific regulation or policy

4:11:44for this site to allow for buildings up to 46 meters. So we're aligned with that vision. Um,

4:11:49and then we just wanted to illustrate what sort of visual impacts it would look like.

4:11:53And we, uh, thought it would be important to compare it in terms of height and it's very

4:11:57similar to the, uh, Tim Horton's distribution center, which had a similar, uh, building height

4:12:03increase. And that's just to the northeast of this site. Uh, next slide, please.

4:12:08I'm going to interrupt you there. You have a minute left. Um, do you have much more?

4:12:14I can zoom through them. If you can give me an extra minute, I would be very appreciative.

4:12:20I'll tell you what, I will, um, survey my colleagues and see if they, um, would permit

4:12:25another two minutes. Colleagues, I'm getting the heads up. So, uh, yes, proceed. You've got three

4:12:32more minutes. Thank you. I'll be even quicker. Uh, just wanted to highlight some of the other

4:12:36variances. It's specifically related to the garbage, uh, enclosure and where the, um, uh,

4:12:43the snow maintenance facilities or, uh, equipment's going to be stored. Uh, we've spoken to staff,

4:12:48they've identified some conditions about landscaping and screening and we're fully supportive of that.

4:12:52And we think we can do it in a way that really doesn't create impact. Uh, next slide, please.

4:12:59Similarly to the loading, it's because of that first phase of development. It's

4:13:02pulled away from the street. It's just that once that second building gets built,

4:13:07it'll cover it and there will be in compliance with the bylaws. So again, it's just

4:13:10related to that first phase. Next slide, please. Um, similarly with the setback, uh, the minimum,

4:13:19maximum front yard setback again, it's because that first phase building, uh, it doesn't occur

4:13:25as the first one closest to the street, uh, as well as the maintenance or the main entrance to

4:13:29the building where it's located closest to where the parking area is and just the way it's situated

4:13:34on the site. Finally, the last, uh, variance is related to the six meter setback. We know staff

4:13:40have acknowledged that, you know, six and a half are for trucks and we recognize that six meters

4:13:45will be just for the vehicle parking. Uh, again, just looking for efficiency to reduce as much of

4:13:50the paved area as possible. Uh, next slide, please. Uh, I will go through the, the, the four

4:13:55tests. I think staff did a really good job. We're very supportive of, uh, their analysis

4:14:00and their recommendation. Uh, next slide, please. Uh, we just went through the four tests for you.

4:14:07If you've read our submission materials, it's very clear. We think meets the four tests. Uh,

4:14:13next slide, please. And the next slide as well. We could probably continue. I'll just summarize

4:14:20in our opinion. It meets the four tests, the minor variants. We did want to highlight some of the

4:14:24public benefits associated with the development. Uh, we think it implements OPA 80, which permits

4:14:29this type of use permits this building height. Um, it meets the four tests, the planning act,

4:14:35which we've gone through in detail in our submission. And then, uh, in our opinion,

4:14:38it contributes to the continued expansion of the, uh, business, uh, business park. Uh, it's a, it's,

4:14:46it meets the, the policy intent of the city to develop in a sustainable way. It will create

4:14:53jobs and employment growth for the city. It invests in an agri-innovation as well as the food

4:14:58industry, which, uh, the city has done. And finally, it'll increase the tax gates. So for all these

4:15:03reasons and more, uh, we're here to recommend or, uh, request that this committee, uh, approve the

4:15:09application. Uh, I'll note one final thing because I know I'm really short on time. Uh, there was a

4:15:15letter from the town of Puzzle, Puzzle, Lynch. We've, we've received it on Monday. We responded

4:15:20to it on Tuesday. Um, a lot of their concerns are related to the site plan process and they

4:15:24haven't been involved to date. We have now engaged with them. We've provided that response and we,

4:15:30we want to work with them through the site plan process to address their concerns,

4:15:33which in our opinion, aren't really related to these variances. So I don't know, it was quick

4:15:38and I apologize. Yeah. Well, thank you. It was very thorough and I do appreciate your, um,

4:15:44your, um, your information. It's, it's very thorough. Thank you. Uh, committee members,

4:15:48do you have any questions of the applicant member? Good fellow. Yes. And I know it's late. So I have

4:15:58many questions, but I will keep it brief. So, uh, through the chair to the applicant. Um,

4:16:04I was looking at the noise feasibility study. Uh, I guess I understand now that you will be engaging

4:16:09with the town, township of Puslench on noise issues. Um, but I was curious why the, um,

4:16:18the refrigeration compressors and other equipment wasn't included in the noise feasibility or the

4:16:22noise assessment. I think I saw that truck traffic was certainly included, but, um, yeah, I was, I,

4:16:29I would, I would be interested to understand why some of the other, uh, mechanized equipment that

4:16:34would be sitting on roofs might not have been included. Uh, through you, uh, Mr. Chairman,

4:16:41that's because it's fully enclosed within the top of the building and, uh, we can, we can double

4:16:49check that with our noise consultant, but my understanding is, um, the loudest noise sources,

4:16:56again, that's my, based on my review of the, of the noise study, that, uh, the noise, uh,

4:17:02the biggest noise impactors or creators are the, the truck traffic. Um, but again, it's,

4:17:09you know, it's through the site plan application process where those details will get flushed out,

4:17:13make sure that, that any noises don't, uh, create impact to the surrounding lands, especially the

4:17:19lands further west. And I guess the one final note that we noted in our letter back to the town,

4:17:25uh, to the township of Puslench was specifically the distance. It's, you know, the closest

4:17:30residential building to, uh, to the site is more than 109 meters away and it's across the

4:17:37Hanlon Parkway. Uh, and I, you know, in our opinion, the Hanlon Parkway will, will likely

4:17:43create much more noise than any of the facilities on our site. Yes. And thank you for that clarification.

4:17:52That's helpful. Uh, I will say that having been involved in similar projects, um, near a highway,

4:17:58it wasn't actually the case. So that's why I was asking the question and wanting to make sure that

4:18:03it was being fully considered. Um, and then I think I also had a question too about the, um,

4:18:09the groundwater, uh, study that was completed, uh, the township of Puslench, I believe,

4:18:14asked a good question about the, um, whether or not the wells on the other side of the

4:18:19Ham, Hanlon had been considered because I believe they're downgradient. Um, so if you could comment

4:18:24to that and then I will, uh, that will be my last question. Uh, through you, Mr. Chair, to, uh,

4:18:31member a good fellow. Um, absolutely. It's, it's, it's an, you know, appropriate concern in, in our

4:18:37opinion, it's not related to the variance before us. This use is permitted. Um, uh, even, you know,

4:18:44most of the variances are technicality. Uh, but we know it's an important concern. Uh, and it

4:18:51will be appropriately dealt with through the site plan process. We've done, uh, uh, we've done the

4:18:56related studies, the hydrogeological studies, um, uh, related to that. Those are with staff. We have

4:19:03yet to file our site plan application and we know through that process that we'll be ensuring the,

4:19:09that there are no impacts to groundwater because we know the importance of that.

4:19:15Yes. Thank you. Appreciate it.

4:19:19Any other questions from my colleagues? Um, I want to thank you for your thoroughness and your time

4:19:26and, um, you have answered, uh, one of my questions, which was, um, that these, uh, most of these

4:19:33variances are technical in nature based on the staging. And so I, I appreciate the illustration.

4:19:39That's very helpful. I do have a question for staff and, um, it relates to the height and, um,

4:19:47the justification of more than doubling, allowing more than doubling of the allowed height. And I

4:19:55wonder if staff can opine on that. That is vis-a-vis that it's considered a minor variance, um, by

4:20:04doubling my height, allowing for double height. Thanks for that question, Mr. Chair. And directly

4:20:11to you, I just want to remind the committee that, uh, minor is not numeric in nature. So when staff,

4:20:17planning staff were reviewing this variance, we considered the site as a whole and its impacts,

4:20:21as well as the surrounding context. And as the applicant mentioned, there are other similar

4:20:25buildings in the vicinity that do have an increased height and have gotten similar variances for an

4:20:29increase in height. So considering the scale and the abnormality of the configuration of the site,

4:20:34we did feel in our professional opinion that the height variance was minor in nature.

4:20:38Thank you for that. And, uh, I also want to thank the applicant for the illustrations. I think that

4:20:44was also helpful in, in, uh, laying some of my fear about allowing a variance that more than

4:20:52doubles the height. So thank you. And thank you staff for that answer. At this point, I'm going to

4:20:59ask if there are any, uh, delegations, uh, from the audience. Seeing none, are there any, uh,

4:21:07online, Madam Secretary, Chair Smith, we do have some delegates, but they are related to the

4:21:16agent. Um, and perhaps through you, Mr. Chair, I can ask if you can ask the applicant if they

4:21:21would like us to bring them in there. They are in, um, the meeting via video. It's math, you,

4:21:26midgley, John, Ash and Brenner and Rob Spanner. Um, I'm not sure if they're just here to ask

4:21:32questions or answer questions. Yeah, go ahead. Uh, through you, Mr. Chair, they're here to

4:21:38observe and answer any questions of, uh, of this committee. Should you need any, uh, clarification?

4:21:45That's awesome. Um, at this point, um, I believe that it's appropriate that we ask for a motion on

4:21:53this particular issue. So committee members, do I have a motion? Member Spears? I move that we, uh,

4:22:03accept as the application as proposed with the conditions the city proposes as well.

4:22:10Thank you. Do I have a seconder? And we're good fellow. Any debate on the issue? Seeing none,

4:22:22I'll turn it over to our secretary, treasurer. Thank you, chair. Committee members, please indicate

4:22:29your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion, which is to approve the application

4:22:33with the six recommended conditions. Chair Smith in favor, member Klein in favor,

4:22:41member good fellow in favor, member Pike in favor, member Seher in favor and member Spears

4:22:48in favor. That's carried chair. Thank you. Your application has been approved

4:22:54and you're free to leave. Thank you again for your patience. Madam secretary, treasurer,

4:23:02I think we have one more application. We do have one more application and that is file a-38

4:23:13slash 23 variants to permit additional use. Daycare center at 512 Woolwich. I'll note for

4:23:20those attending remotely, if you wish to speak to this application, you can do so by calling the

4:23:24number displayed on the screen. That is 519-822-1260 extension 2524. Is the applicant present?

4:23:34Yes. Please come forward to the microphone and state your name for the record.

4:23:43Hi. Hello, everyone. My name is Hitesh Panchal and we have made the application for an additional

4:23:49use of 512 Woolwich Street as a daycare center. Thank you. Can you tell me if the sign was posted

4:23:59as per the planning act? Yes, it was. Thank you. Have you read staff's comments and

4:24:05do you have any questions or are you in agreement? Yes, we have read the staff comments and we are

4:24:09in agreement. That's wonderful. You have 10 minutes to address the committee. Yeah, we don't want to

4:24:17add too much. It's just we have made the application to have an additional use as a child care center

4:24:26and the staff has made all the comments. So if there was any questions, we are happy to answer

4:24:33those. Well, thank you. That was concise and I will ask my colleagues if they have any questions

4:24:40of this applicant. I see shaking of heads. Madam Secretary Treasurer, do we have any

4:24:47delegation? Well, first, are there any delegations to speak to this in the auditorium? Seeing none.

4:24:55Madam Secretary Treasurer, are there any online? Chair Smith, I can confirm we have some delegation

4:25:01requests. The first is Dennis Weiler. He's present via video. Thank you very much. Welcome. Can

4:25:11you state your name for the record, please? My name is Dennis Weiler. I'm one of the stakeholders

4:25:17in the building and I'm just here to answer any questions that the committee might have concerning

4:25:24this proposal. Well, you have 10 minutes to address the committee. Please go ahead.

4:25:30As I said, I don't have anything to add. I agree with all the staff comments

4:25:37and look forward to hearing the results. Okay. Committee members, any questions?

4:25:45Well, thank you for your comments. You don't have any questions, so you're free to listen, but

4:25:51you're also free to leave the meeting. Did you say there was another? Chair Smith, we do have

4:26:00one final delegate via phone and that is Christine Robinson.

4:26:05Can we hear Christine? Hello, can you state your name for the record, please?

4:26:17Yes, Christine Robinson. Welcome, Christine. You can have 10 minutes to address the committee.

4:26:26Thank you for your time. So in the case of this particular application, I am a neighbor that

4:26:33backs on to the proposed variance change for the current office space. And I did speak to a kind

4:26:45gentleman at the city today and I understand that there were more details provided, but that have

4:26:52not yet been shared with the public from the map that I have before me. It is not clear which of

4:27:02the two buildings, the one that is closer to Willowich Street or the one that backs on to a

4:27:08number of residential homes closer to exhibition, which of the buildings is being proposed for

4:27:15daycare use. And again, I'd like to state that I am in big support of more daycare spaces

4:27:26everywhere, but certainly in Guelph. They are much needed. The concern here for us would be that

4:27:32if it in fact is the building that is closer to Exhibition Park, that currently that office space,

4:27:43that low-rise office space, codes this very nicely with backyard neighbors, it is very quiet.

4:27:50The proposed daycare use, as I understand it, would require outdoor space to be created. And

4:28:00depending on what plans are being proposed for that, in some cases that might require tree removal.

4:28:08In other cases, it would be directly behind residential backyard fence lines and would

4:28:15significantly increase the noise level during daytime. And while daycare spaces are a really

4:28:22important part of our community, so too is the backyard office that our home has is a psychotherapy

4:28:32counseling clinic. And it would be very difficult to operate during the day, providing psychotherapy

4:28:39services if the outdoor daycare space was to happen directly behind the fence line,

4:28:45which is one of the most conceivable places for it to be. So my hope would be twofold,

4:28:54that before a variance is considered that the additional details be provided to the public

4:29:03for questions and commentary. And the second would be that the owners of the building and or

4:29:15interested parties, stakeholders in the property, that they would consult with neighbors about

4:29:20placement of any outdoor spaces that could impact use of backyards. That's all from me. Thank you.

4:29:30Thank you. Committee members, do you have any questions for this delegate? I don't see any.

4:29:40I will ask city staff. It seemed, can you offer any advice to this delegate on what building

4:29:50is being planned for the daycare?

4:29:55Sure. Through you, Mr. Chair. The drawings provided indicate that it would be located on the office

4:30:01building closest to Woolwich Street in the unit that would be, I guess, the furthest from Woolwich

4:30:08Street, but it would be in that building closer to Woolwich Street rather than Exhibition Park.

4:30:14That was my understanding as well on where the sign was placed, quite frankly. So I hope that

4:30:19answers your question. Are there any other questions for this delegate? Seeing none, I will go into

4:30:28committee and seek the advice of my colleagues. Do we wish a motion? Members Sayer? A motion to approve.

4:30:45Okay. And do I have a seconder? Member Klein? Any conversation or discussion on the

4:30:53motion before us? Seeing none, I will turn it over to Madam Secretary Treasurer. Thank you, Chair.

4:31:01Committee members, please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion,

4:31:05which is to approve the application. Chair Smith? In favor. Member Klein? In favor.

4:31:13Member Goodfellow? In favor. Member Pike? In favor. Member Sayer? In favor. And Member Spears?

4:31:21In favor. That's carried, Chair. Thank you. Your application has been approved. Thank you.

4:31:34I take it this is the last application. Is that correct?

4:31:39Chair Smith, that's correct.

4:31:43Does staff have any announcements?

4:31:46Chair Smith, I can confirm we don't have any staff announcements this evening.

4:31:50Okay. I do have one announcement. It's more a comment and two issues have brought me to

4:31:59bring this forward. One was Member Klein recusing herself at the beginning of this and an article

4:32:07recently about a neighboring jurisdiction and their committee of adjustment and the actions of

4:32:16pecuniary interest. And I think what was positively demonstrated today by Member Klein

4:32:24is something that we should all take to heart, that pecuniary interest is vital that we declare.

4:32:31And our governance is based on approval of the public. And if public don't have faith in our

4:32:40operation to make our decisions without fear of favor, then that undermines our authority. So I

4:32:51just wanted to remind all of my colleagues that from time to time there are going to be issues

4:32:59of pecuniary interest. I've declared it in the past and does the same Member Klein has.

4:33:04And so I hope that we will go forward with that. So in that, that is the end of my rant.

4:33:13And I am going to entertain a motion to adjourn. Member Goodfellow, Member Seyer,

4:33:27all in favor? We stand adjourned. Thank you very much for a very long meeting and your diligence.

4:33:36Thanks to staff for saying so late.