Accessibility Advisory Committee

0:02I'm still counting seven. Who am I missing? That's fine. You guys got eight now. Okay. Oh, there we go. Brian's here. Okay, perfect

0:11Hello, everyone. We have enough to start so I'm gonna go ahead and get started

0:17Welcome everybody to the June 18th accessibility advisory committee meeting

0:24We're going to start with the indigenous territorial acknowledgement

0:28As we gather let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in Guelph a city built over rich indigenous histories

0:35We are guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land

0:40The people who live here today and the generations to come if our actions today can move us toward reconciliation

0:47We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude

0:51This place that we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time

0:57But more specifically the Atta Wanderang and the Haudenosaunee

1:02This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation

1:07Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Hadamann tract and is part of a long-established traditional hunting ground for the six nations of the Grand River

1:15Many First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples who have come from across Turtle Island called Guelph home today

1:22There's a link in the

1:24Agenda where you can learn more about the indigenous territorial acknowledgement

1:28So we'll start today

1:32Off with the disclosure of conflict of interest in general nature thereof

1:36Would anyone like to disclose a conflict of interest about anything on the agenda today? I see in here none

1:45So moving along we need someone to move to approve the agenda for the June 18th

1:52Accessibility Advisory Committee meeting that we're looking at now

1:56Would anyone like to move and second that?

2:00I see Brian

2:05Do we have a seconder Deborah? Perfect and is anyone opposed?

2:10See in here none so we can move along to the approval of the minutes from the last meeting

2:19If you had a chance to look over the minutes from the last meeting would anybody mind

2:25Moving to approve those and we need a second or two a Nortel and Sue. Thank you so much

2:33And is anyone opposed? I don't see or hear any

2:40So we can move along to the first item on the agenda today

2:45It's a consent agenda. We have the consent agenda first

2:49There's some info about the consent agendas there's a link in the agenda if you'd like to see it

2:57Am I just kind of putting this forward then I guess there's no staff presentation or anything right Leanne or right

3:05So you'll there is a recommendation there

3:08So to move I didn't know if that was mine or if somebody else needed to do it

3:13Yeah, so you can we'll need a member to move and then second and then you'll do your any opposed

3:20Yeah, somebody wants to pull something right exactly okay, so the consent agenda today

3:27There are a couple items on it for the just an update on the taxi script program and the site plan internal review report

3:33Which are both just kind of boilerplate same thing that we've been looking at

3:37And the recommendation is that the June 18th, 2024 a AC consent agenda be received

3:44Would anybody like to move that I?

3:46See in Nortel in order was that a question or a or are you saying you'd like to move?

3:55That was raised to move. Okay, perfect. And can we get a seconder for that?

4:00Yes, okay, perfect. Thank you Chris and is anyone opposed to that

4:07Consent agenda going through all right. I don't see or hear any

4:14So now we're moving into the committee items

4:18The first item we have is Leanne is going to talk to us about the addition of an

4:23Intersectionality approach in the multi-year accessibility plan. This is something that we'd asked for so

4:29We'll have ten minutes to discuss at the end, but

4:31Should be pretty straightforward

4:33So it's all you Leanne. Awesome. Thank you very much. Okay, so just really quick

4:39This is an addition that was requested by the AC and great idea

4:45To add this into the multi-year accessibility plan and this is the plan for 2024 to 2026 that this will go into

4:53And the addition is finally and this is like at the end of the intro type of thing

4:59so finally applying an intersectionality lens through

5:03engagement opportunities to these guiding principles and the work identified in this plan reveals a commitment to equity at its core

5:14The intersectionality of disability and other social identities such as race gender age and socioeconomic

5:21Status aimed to eliminate barriers and create equal opportunities for all members of the community

5:27And then we get into this statement underscores the importance of accessibility

5:32emphasizing that it is not just about physical access but about ensuring equitable benefit for all

5:39the plan historically sorry the plans historical context

5:44Dating back to the 1990s shows a progressive evolution in addressing accessibility with a proactive

5:52Stance that is not only that not only meets but strives to surpass the AODA standards

5:59and

6:00then just one more paragraph here the

6:03Incorporation of universal design principles further highlights a forward-thinking strategy aiming at

6:10aiming to create an

6:12Environment that is inherently accessible to everyone thereby recognizing the individuality of each person

6:19This holistic view aligns with the city's vision to foster an inclusive and equitable community

6:25Divusity is not just recognized but celebrated as a strength. So there are two proposed motions there. I

6:36Can read them out and then I'll turn it back to you maybe Lorelai

6:42So the first one is the AC recommend a proposed addition to the multi-year accessibility plan and just leave it at that type of thing or

6:50The AAC recommend the proposed addition to the multi-year accessibility plan with the following additions

6:58Okay, thank you so much, Leanne

7:03We've got some time now to just kind of discuss and if anybody wants to put forward a motion

7:07But I see Deborah's hand up so go ahead

7:11Great. Thank you, and I'm so glad to see this. I I

7:17Yeah, I'm really glad to see this. I

7:20I'm a little concerned about some of the wording in the

7:25description in the addition and it's because it really focuses on individuals and

7:32While that's true for many of us we perceive ourselves as unique discrete individuals many of us are in relationship

7:41Either because of cultural context and therefore

7:44We're not simply adding a bunch of individuals together to create a community or because

7:51The ways in which our impairments and disabilities shape our lives is that we rely on other people

7:57And so what I think is missing is a notion of relationships

8:04That's also essential in

8:08In in addressing intersectionality like

8:12Individ intersectionality has two parts. It is

8:16individual intersecting identities and

8:19structures and systems that reflect the power relation reflect and maintain power relationships

8:26so I'm trying to get at a little bit of this by

8:30Talking a bit about this individuality of each person line

8:35in the third paragraph and I guess

8:40my my

8:42My my preference would be to just strike that out

8:47We could also figure out language that might reflect more of a relational approach

8:55both based in culture and in different experiences of disability

9:06Crosses hand up in the room there lower life Chris go ahead

9:10Yeah, thank you very much. I just started thinking about how this is going to be operationalized within the

9:17Multi-accessibility plan on other plans that worked on have included some sort of metric

9:23To say that

9:25You know a certain percentage of people have an onboard to represent an intersectional identity

9:30Or it could be used as a lens with which we view the accessibility plan as a whole

9:35but I just wonder what sort of

9:37Metrics or plan there was to onboard this and install it within the accessibility plan because I think it is worth discussing

9:45So yeah, that's over to me. Yeah, okay

9:52sorry

9:54so

9:56This approach is I would say fairly new for the city and so this the idea of this would be

10:04Part of it would be an education component

10:07at this point and then

10:10This is only

10:122024 to 2026 plan

10:15It's not clear yet when the next AOD will come out which may impact the

10:23Dates on this plan as it is

10:26It may be a shorter plan than what it's stating here

10:29So that that was the thinking behind this is that it was you know, it's an opportunity to do some education

10:38in how we're thinking about

10:41Working through this and thinking about

10:44Incorporating this in as we do our work type of thing

10:48Can I be clean the floor here for a bit?

10:50I guess yes. Yes. I all means go ahead. Thank you very much. Thank you much for that. I was just thinking so this would be sort of a learning curve

10:59So what I'm thinking would be impactful would be to go underneath

11:03Comment number two and say that in the interim the city will look at developing

11:09A scope with which they can observe the level of intersectionality that they encounter within

11:15Their operations and so on with the ACA in in conjunction with

11:20And then they can start to figure out where those individuals are left out

11:27Who represent that intersectional focus?

11:29We could pair that down a lot, but I think it is useful to say, okay

11:32We can we can incorporate this terminology into the accessibility plan

11:36But then we have to take a look at how we're going to operationalize that and make sure that we're addressing everybody's concerns and not just those of

11:42Typical white men physical disability so on so

11:46I don't know how you want to parse that out, but I think it might be useful. So that's up for discussion as well

11:52Um, does anyone else have any questions or want to talk?

12:01Uh chat about anything I had a thought but I'll wait till the end to make sure everyone has time

12:07I'm not seeing or hearing any so I'll just quickly hop in. Um, I wanted to

12:16Say to I think when we first brought this out, I think it was Deborah who first brought this up

12:21and Jeanette and a few other people and I think the the goal was less

12:26Just speaking to what you were saying there Chris. I think the goal is less about us worrying about the city having a metric to make sure they're

12:33It's really hard to apply a metric to human rights. You know what I mean? So I think this was more

12:39Intended as a foothold for marginalized communities to be able to have one more tool in our tool belt

12:46and people with, um

12:48Uh intersecting

12:51Uh, you know identities and experiences to have one more tool in our tool belt to be able to come back and hold the city accountable

12:58And say you have it in writing that you are going to try to do this and

13:02Right now in this specific example, it doesn't feel like that's being done. So I I kind of am okay with if we can't figure out a metric

13:11Uh moving forward with this for now because I don't know what kind of metric we could find that the city would be

13:17Comfortable saying they could definitely apply and that we wouldn't be erasing somebody's identities or experiences by the people in this room

13:24Trying to figure that metric out

13:26um

13:27But that that's just my thought is uh that as it stands it is

13:32supposed to uh

13:34Kind of just give us another tool

13:37And is not necessarily a foolproof way to make sure that intersectionality will always 100 percent be met, which I wish it would

13:43Um, and then also I just wanted to say I agree with what Debra said about uh the line about thereby recognizing the

13:51Individuality of each person. I think that is an important part for some people

13:54But it also is conflicting to what intersectionality means for some people. So striking that line would make sense and adding more relational

14:04Uh context would also make sense, but I'm not sure what that context would look like. I don't know how to add that so I won't try

14:10But those are my thoughts

14:13Well, I have to respectfully disagree there. It is possible to install a metric with which you can view human rights through

14:20But I'm just suggesting that maybe the city wants to put on that lens of saying, okay

14:24Well, we we're gonna install this tool

14:25But we have to know how it operates now it works

14:27And if we don't have any way to calibrate that or any way to think around it then what use is that actual tool aside from paying

14:33Mention to the fact they're intersectional and we're going to run up against this

14:38Um possibly again where people are talking about disabilities, but people start thinking about okay

14:41Well, what kind of disabilities are we talking about? We have a good concept of what that means in terms of cross-disability and so on

14:47Representing intersectionality from the disability focus

14:49But we really have to be able to educate ourselves on what intersectionality actually is for this to give golf

14:55So to do that

14:56We have to get a sense of what kind of people are out there and so on and what kind of people are interacting with the city and the ac

15:01So i'm just saying that potentially down the road

15:04We could use comment number two as saying we will install this terminology because I think it's really useful to have that

15:11in the aac

15:12Or the accessible multi-year plan, but then the city is responsible for developing that lens

15:18In conjunction with the aac just to figure out what sort of level of interaction they're having

15:28um

15:29I

15:30Yeah, go ahead debba

15:31And I also want to say if we can try to stay away from the I almost hopped back in just to respond

15:36But if we can stay away from the popcorn it gets out of hand really quickly if everyone just raises their hands

15:40We'll we'll get to everyone, but go ahead debba

15:44Great, um, I actually do a lot on intersectionality in

15:49Policy and I can tell you it's really really complicated. Um, there's not a single metric

15:55We work on impact assessment with the impact assessment agency of canada

15:59And we give trainings on lots of different things, but there are three areas that we may want to

16:06highlight not as metrics, but as indicators of where

16:11intersectionality could be brought into

16:14um

16:16city of gulf's

16:18Plans and practices the first is data collection

16:24The second is engagement

16:28And the third is

16:32Policy and development and analysis

16:36So again those three are data collection

16:41engagement

16:42practices

16:44um and processes and then um

16:47policy development and analysis and to use an intersectional focus in each of those areas takes different ways of doing things

16:56But they give some indication of what we're trying to

17:00um

17:01Illustrate as is the scope of what's necessary

17:09So I think that what we got mixed up there is metric and data collection because I was looking at that's the same sort of thing

17:15I think it would behoove anyone who wants to view intersectionality as being focused that they collect data on the on the on the subject

17:26Go ahead debba

17:28Maybe maybe I can just be a little bit clear. I I'm actually suggesting not collect data on intersectionality

17:36But use an intersectional framework when

17:39gulf

17:40collects data

17:42So it's a different focus, right? So what focus is

17:47So go ahead

17:48Yeah, Chris, can you just wait and raise your hand and then we'll I'll call on you when it's if that's all right. Thank you

17:54The focus is on what is gulf doing already and how could it use an intersectional analysis framework to

18:04um make what it's doing

18:06more inclusive

18:09Okay, I think they were discussing the same things because I've been different vocabulary

18:14I'm I'm I'm clear with that that's that makes me that's a very good suggestion

18:26Okay, um, does anyone else have any thoughts on this before we maybe move toward crafting a motion?

18:40Okay, all right. Um, so it sounds like what we've got is we have some thoughts on

18:46Two separate ideas here. Chris is feeling like

18:50Implementing some talk about metrics. Uh, I debba had some points about

18:57Data collection

18:58Applying an intersectional framework to data collection about engagement and about policy development and analysis all

19:05Maybe being included and then also debba brought up some points about striking the thereby recognizing the individuality of each person

19:13So it sounds like we probably want to go with the second proposed motion

19:16That we recommend the addition to the multi-year accessibility plan with these following additions

19:22So I don't know if um anybody would like to take a crack at that

19:27But that now would be the time to do it and I do want to say again

19:30If like any time that anyone's speaking if we can just raise our hands first and wait for me to say

19:34Okay, it's your turn to talk because I want to make sure no one's getting cut off or that everybody has ample time to

19:40To finish their thoughts before the next person speaks

19:43So just being mindful that that's the procedure for the aac

19:47Thank you so much

19:52Go ahead Shannon. I i'm just curious can somebody kind of um expand more about what this um

20:05The recognizing the individual

20:08Sorry

20:09Recognizing the individuality of each person. Um

20:13I'm I think

20:16What's being said here? I personally think regardless of there's always individuality

20:22um

20:23So I'm just wondering somebody can kind of expand

20:26their viewpoint on on um understand people have

20:30rely on

20:32lots of different resources in terms of people or characters or that

20:37But um, I still don't see how that would remove the individuality of a person

20:42I apologize for my froggy voice sometimes getting over cold but um, if somebody was willing to kind of

20:48Stand up that's just a little bit

21:09Before I go on Brian, I wanted to know if anybody would like to take a crack at responding to that

21:16Because I think Brian probably has another point

21:18Um, but if not, we'll move on to Brian and then we can always circle back

21:22And then Chris has his hand up in the room, but not to us not to that point. So just making sure that's understood

21:29Okay, so we'll go Deborah, Brian Chris. Uh, go ahead Deborah

21:34Yeah, um good question, uh, it's um

21:40So I don't want to speak for all indigenous people or any indigenous people but when we've done, um,

21:47gatherings with indigenous people with disabilities

21:50um

21:51They have found the language of individuality

21:56To be one that was culturally inappropriate

21:59um, because they understand themselves as the ones we've talked to and again, I I'm not making a generic comment here

22:08But I'm I'm trying to locate it in a specific instance

22:12um where uh

22:15people

22:17Find that focusing on the individual excludes the communities

22:21Of which they're a part cultural

22:24Supports and communities. So that's one of the instances. I've also heard from

22:31folks who um, don't use verbal communications

22:36um, or for whom they've been labeled intellectually disabled that um, they

22:43Not all of them identify

22:46Simply as an individual that doesn't capture all of who they are because they're very understanding

22:53The understanding of who they are is mediated by somebody else. So that's really complicated. I'm sorry. I don't have an easy answer

23:02But yeah, that's the best I can do

23:08I wanted to add also there are people with uh, certain disabilities that don't

23:12identify as an individual person as well

23:16There's a lot of people in the dissociative identity disorder community who

23:20Lots of people do identify as individuals and lots of people don't identify as individuals. So even when within the disability community as well

23:28It's important not to focus on individuality too much. I think

23:34But uh, we've got uh, brian and then chris and then we'll circle back to shannon

23:39Go ahead brian

23:41Thank you

23:43Just to I guess continue on the thought about communities

23:49And some of the variables that are presented here with social identity race gender age

23:56and uh, the final one socioeconomic status

24:00And with in-growth there are communities based on socioeconomic status

24:06And this is something that potentially could

24:11uh

24:13I guess there could be an overlay of socioeconomic status that data is available

24:20for the most part

24:23and

24:26disability and

24:29and uh, how to improve

24:32uh equity within a community

24:36So I I I don't know

24:38how to

24:40Put this all together, but I think there's opportunity for uh, overlaying

24:45some data with

24:48uh with community and how to improve

24:52Within that community. Okay. Thank you. Um

25:00And we have chris and then shannon go ahead chris

25:04Thank you. So at the university we're looking at intersectionality as a as a

25:08Reciprocal of the human rights code based in ontario. So what we were looking at it was

25:14In terms of the matrices of identities that people could have those matrices of identities could be impacted by

25:19Uh, another identity being a disability and that just meant that wherever people were at in their lives

25:27um, we could get sort of a a discussion going around that the sort of impact on the individual

25:33Based on where they're from what they're doing their family status and so on but also having disability as being the variable

25:41That would sort of indicate

25:44their sort of outreach for

25:46um

25:47The equality and so on so looking at you that the human rights lens is useful in that regard

25:53I don't think it's useful at all with this discussion

25:56But I do think that looking at disability is a variable that impact people's

26:00identity

26:01Is is a useful way to look at it and that is an inherently individualized

26:07view at it because the human rights code talks about applying a combination to the lens of

26:11Individuality but also with the lens of equality

26:15Um, I had a second point related to the motion. So I don't know if that's coming up next but uh, I can discuss that later if you want

26:22Yeah, why don't we circle through to shannon quickly and then make sure we get through everyone again and then we'll get to motion crafting

26:29Um, just because it sounds like there's more discussion now. So shannon go ahead and then brian and then we'll go back to chris

26:36Thank you. Sorry if I've bothered you with the hands up mic

26:40Was it wash? Oh, you're I appreciate everybody kind of giving um the reviews on that and I understand the intersectionality of it

26:47um, my concern was that that was

26:50um addressed for the rapid but then the specifics was is that it was

26:54Inherently accessible to everyone therefore recognized an individuality of each person. It was just that

27:02My concern I'm

27:05So I understand I that's my experience with disability. So I just experienced

27:10For my son is that I let people view that because he has a disability realize a lot of care

27:16Is that somehow he is not worthy of being treated as

27:20An individual person if people will look to even though he is more than capable people look to others as

27:29Can't answer for somebody with a disability therefore just kind of not acknowledging them as a person as an individual. So I just

27:36Um, wanted some clarity on that section in there. So I appreciate everybody getting the feedback again

27:44Thank you

27:47Awesome. Thanks Shannon. Yeah, that's really important. I think that everybody's I think aligned on that

27:52It's not that anybody doesn't think that disabled people's individuality is important

27:56But it's only two people who it is important to and since this is about the intersections of many different types of

28:03Experiences and things it might not have that line might not have a place in this particular

28:09document

28:11but um, we'll go brian and then and also it sounds like there's also a lot of

28:17opportunity for us to give feedback to other areas of the city on how they handle

28:22Uh intersectionality but specifically for the aac's motion that we wanted to add this to the multi-year accessibility plan

28:30This might be a good starting point and then further conversation can happen with clerks or with lienne and sarah to

28:37facilitate more in-depth conversation down the line

28:39So it's important to remember that too. But brian your hand is no longer up. Did you still want to speak? If so go ahead

28:47No, it was uh left out for me before sorry. Okay

28:52All right, uh, so I think we can move into crafting the motion then and chris you said you had a thought on that

28:58Yeah, so I I agree and debra. Correct me if i'm wrong with this

29:01But you would you suggest just removing that last little line saying thereby recognizing the individuality of each person

29:07I think it's impactful just saying accessible to everyone full stop

29:11Um in that second piece

29:14Uh, we can discuss this more so but I do think it would be a

29:18a responsible move to say install a piece of

29:23terminology that says the city will be responsible for um

29:27Finding out, you know, what sort of level of intersectionality is that is um

29:32applicable to the city and so I don't know if I'm wording this correctly

29:35Excuse me if I am but I do think that some sort of data collection some sort of

29:39um

29:40Knowledge building has to occur in the city in order to be able to understand what intersectionality actually is

29:47Um rather than just having it as a term and it sort of just be left up there to float in the ocean

29:51That that's it for me. Sorry. Oh go ahead. Um

30:00Uh tebra you go ahead first

30:02Um shan and actually is your hand still uh, you hadn't lowered your hand yet. I'm not sure if you had wanted to speak again

30:07No, okay. Perfect. Go ahead debra

30:10Great, uh, thanks. So yes, I would um

30:14Do the follow the motion number two and rather than saying with the following

30:19um additions say the following changes and then delete that that last clause

30:25Rec, thereby recognizing the individuality of the person just delete that and put it full stop after

30:31accessible to everyone and then I agree with chris that it would be helpful to perhaps actually end with um,

30:40um

30:42A line that

30:44It takes it a little bit further from aspiration to practice

30:47And maybe we could just say on that last line

30:51Let me just read it this holistic view aligns with the city's vision to foster

30:56an inclusive and equitable community where diversity

31:00Um is not just recognized but celebrated as strength and then add a comma and say something like and encourage this

31:09Is and encourages the city and its data collection engagement policy analysis development and analysis

31:17to make this

31:21Living breathing vision right or something like that

31:32Chris has his hand up in the room

31:34I agree debra

31:36Go ahead chris

31:38What she said is great

31:40Um, we can just add a little bit on the end of that sentence there the last paragraph that would stipulate

31:44You know the city's responsibility and we can always come back to that later on and review it and make adjustments here

31:50In but it is a responsibility to see to understand what it means. So I think it's a good good way to go

31:56The reason I went quiet there is because I was having my uh speech to text software type what debra was saying

32:03So I have that motion if if uh city staff would find that helpful

32:08Yeah through you chair root. I tried my best to capture but um words were just flying too quick for me

32:14so um if we can uh, we're all work together to get that language in I can

32:20Display the motion once I have that and we can take a vote

32:26the first piece was um

32:29Can we get that back up on the screen? Please sorry. What was just up?

32:33For a lie. I think I got it actually here. I just sense it. Okay, perfect

32:39That's great that you're a fast typer because even my screen of my speech to text it like scrambles to catch up with people speaking

32:47Thanks, Sarah

33:08Oops now I left my hand up

33:23Just while we're pulling that together

33:24I want to give us all like a a moment of wow

33:27we've come a long way on crafting motions and

33:29Having discussions that loop around on top of each other and we're getting really good at this

33:34I'm really happy to see how much everybody's

33:37It's it's a lot of effort on everyone's part and I appreciate it. Thank you

33:43It is very much appreciated by the way. Thank you

33:46I

33:48agree

33:52Okay, I think I've added it. Um, if Joey you can share the motion

33:58Um, again, we can if there's any edits that are required then

34:02Just let us know and we can I can make that

34:19The only word that is missing is practices after engagement from what Deborah had said

34:24She said engagement practices but other than that and I don't know whether that's important, but

34:28Okay, perfect. I will add that just want to make sure we get the motion

34:36um, and through you chair root to a member debora

34:41And member little is this uh, is this language okay does it capture? Okay, perfect. So bring me some

34:47I'm sorry

34:49Okay

34:52We made that change we can bring up the motion one more time and then um

34:56Uh through you chair root you can call the vote

34:59We made the time to model

35:06I guess first I have to ask debora. Are you uh, moving this and chris. Are you seconding it? Is yes from debora

35:14Yes, okay, and this version still doesn't have the practices on it, but I'm

35:19Implicitly seeing the word practices after engagement. Yes. Sorry. It is included. I just refreshed so hopefully that captures it

35:28Joey if you just want to refresh your screen and then

35:33Yep, no that looks great and thank you. I couldn't have repeated what I said. So I'm really appreciative that you all caught it

35:49And then once we've got that back up on the screen, I will call the vote and we can move along

35:55This has been good

36:01Here Joey I can share

36:07Okay, I added engagement practices

36:11So we've got a mover and a seconder now. I just need to know if anyone is opposed

36:15Sorry chair root. Can you confirm the mover was?

36:19Yeah, uh member steen uh steinstra. Is it steinstra or steinstra?

36:24It's steinstra.

36:25Steinstra member steinstra and member ladle. Okay, perfect. Thank you

36:31And um, is anyone opposed?

36:36I see and hear none. So that passes. Thank you so much everyone

36:40Um, thank you leon for presenting on that in the interest of time. I'm going to move pretty swiftly on to the gulf transit follow-up

36:47uh, we have

36:50Uh, staff member laura catalano bragas uh here to talk about that

36:55Sorry laura line. Um, we don't we actually have lindsay here to speak to this item

37:00There was just a last minute change for staff presenting. Well, that's fine. It's great to have you here lindsay go ahead

37:05It's all you

37:07The floor is yours

37:09Uh five minute presentation by lindsay and then we'll we'll have a little discussion

37:13All right

37:15Thank you, uh, if everyone can hear me

37:17I'm not sure. Yes. Okay, great. Uh, yeah, so good afternoon everybody. Uh, I'm here to speak about a transit priority chimes

37:25And hopefully confirm a choice that best suits our passengers

37:28Um transit supply to report to the committee back in april

37:32And I'm hopeful everyone had a chance to read that report but for those that might have not

37:37Uh, the report discussed our intentions to introduce priority chimes

37:41Um for when we have to share a priority message for our passengers

37:45Uh, what is a priority message?

37:47Uh, priority message is a message played by the operator on board

37:51To provide information to customers or request an action from customers

37:55These amount sorry these announcements do not play regularly at each stop and are only used when an operator chooses to play them

38:03I have a couple here. I'm going to share my screen too. Um

38:07Just so you can all see

38:09Um

38:10A report from last time

38:22Can everyone see that?

38:24You can just see your desktop. No, we just see a desktop. Okay. Let me try this then. Is that better?

38:29Yeah

38:30Ready?

38:31Yeah

38:32Perfect. Um, yeah, I'm trying. Yeah, I'm trying here. It's it's not giving me what I want here. There we go

38:39Uh, perfect. There we go. Yeah

38:42Um, okay, now I'm gonna play a couple sounds for you the these are the chimes that we have created um since the last

38:48Meeting back in april. Um, so I'm going to play an option number one

38:52Um, and then I can play option number two

38:55Um, if anybody wants to hear the option again, please just ask I have no problem. I can play them again

39:00Um, and then I'll allow you guys to discuss

39:04So here's here's option number one

39:18Did everyone hear option number one?

39:20Yeah

39:21Perfect. Uh, here is option number two

39:35Sorry, it's not loading as fast as I'd like

39:50I had this same problem this morning. We'll see if I can't fix it here

39:56Uh, here it comes

40:04Perfect. Would you like to hear them again or?

40:08Or would anyone like to hear them again?

40:11Yes, maybe one more time

40:13Sure, no problem. Thank you

40:15Uh, so here's option number one

40:26And here's option number two

40:37So those are the two chimes, uh

40:40I will say that nothing else changes within our system. So our next stop announcements will not change

40:45Um, the written information displayed on our screens will not change

40:48These are just strictly for when an operator needs to send a message to our passengers or our customers

40:53Um, I just want to make sure everyone's understanding of that

40:56Um, and then I'll leave it to you guys to discuss

40:59And if you have any questions, let me know

41:04Thank you so much. Uh, I appreciate that. Um, before we hop into questions

41:08I just have a quick clarification to ask of lianne because I think in our meeting

41:13um

41:13Planning the executive planning meeting you mentioned that you were involved in making sure that members

41:20uh with uh hearing related disabilities kind of

41:24You got some feedback from people on whether or not because that was one of our big concerns was

41:29Uh around people with different levels of hearing loss. So am I correct in that that there was some consultation on these sounds?

41:37Yeah, and it was the range of tones that was

41:42commented that it was ideal because

41:45Uh, it was the lower tones actually that were appreciated

41:50But the higher tones, you know, it gave it gave it gives both of them give a good range put it that way

41:57Um, so it's a little bit more inclusive

42:00Yes, okay. Thank you. I I knew that already but I wanted to make sure everyone knows that that had happened because I think it'll help us

42:06Move along quickly. Does anyone have any?

42:10Um

42:11Thoughts on either of these or would anyone like to take a crack at a motion saying that we would approve the use of either of these tones

42:19Or that we would it's cat. Yeah, go ahead. Kathy right. I didn't raise my hand. I just thought of that now

42:25Okay, that's okay. Go ahead. There was no hands up

42:27So I've noticed in the first one

42:30Um, that option it had less time to hear the sound

42:35However, it did have um deeper sounds

42:38I'm wondering if we um, if there's an option to add

42:42another chime

42:44to each

42:45Piece of it because there's there's two pieces. It's like dot dot and then dot dot could we do three with that lower option?

42:52Higher pitch sounds aren't we always heard compared to the the lower pitch

42:57And my piece is the time for cognitive

43:01load and understanding that this is going to be

43:05Recognized as you know a piece of communication. So there's two things that I'm wondering and and that's uh

43:12I like the first one

43:15But could there be an extra chime put on the two bars?

43:19In order to give somebody enough time because I did like the amount of times in the second piece

43:27I can maybe respond to that just uh, if that's something that the ac would want to recommend in their motion

43:34That they you know recommend we go with option number one, but to add

43:40Almost essentially a repeat of the first part of the chime to make that a three-part chime instead of kind of a two-part chime

43:47That's certainly something that you're more than welcome to motion for

43:51um, that would be a recommendation that transit could take back and

43:55Uh consider accordingly

44:06Are there any hands up in the room there? I don't see any

44:09No, no

44:11I just wanted to say that both of these tones for me addressed the parts that I couldn't hear in the other tones

44:17um

44:18So I am happy with the changes personally, uh, and I

44:23Do worry a little bit about us, uh sending it back for more and more

44:29Changes if we can avoid it at all, uh, if we do recommend any changes

44:34I would think we probably are not going to see these again because

44:38Um, they would have to come back in another two months to another aac meeting and then so because they've already come to us

44:44Twice with these chime options

44:45We might have to leave it to transit to do what they can if they're going to change them at all

44:51Because we we have to be fair to staff to make sure they have enough time

44:54So I it might make sense for us to make a motion saying we we approve these tones

45:00We would like to see transit do what they can to extend the time

45:04Um of them because I agree. That's a good point

45:07But just knowing that we will probably not see these again

45:10And we have to just trust that transit will work with lienne and sarah to make sure that that

45:14And I think we can definitely trust that staff will work well together to make sure that it works out well

45:19So that would be my thought if someone wanted to make a motion that that might be a good way to put it

45:24We have any end up in the room with chris. Chris go ahead

45:28I just want to say I agree with you fully on that. I don't think that um

45:31looking at this in terms of

45:33Pity pointing exactly the tone that we would prefer versus what the tone is most useful for for

45:40For people living in the city

45:41Just remembering the fact that the city terminal has three

45:44separate tones

45:46That have worked over years and so

45:49Mind you we're listening to this on a in a meeting. It's a lot different in a vehicle where it's louder and and there's different sorts of

45:55Meeting factors applied to it, but I do think that we should make a motion on this and we can move forward

46:18Or am I with us? Oh

46:22My mic was muted. I was talking that whole time

46:26I said

46:27Sorry, I was just saying yes. Um, that's that's great

46:30I think we should move into crafting a motion now if possible because we don't have a lot more time to discuss this now

46:36but um, I was proposing that uh, we craft a motion that says something along the lines of the aac

46:42recommends that transit work with

46:46Leanne and Sarah or the liaisons or whatever the proper wording is

46:51to

46:54Select from these two tones

46:56and

46:58you know amend them to add extra time if

47:02They see fit

47:04Because I know Leanne's done a lot of work with the communities involved and could could reach out and make sure that our concerns about cognitive load

47:10are addressed and that

47:12you know transit can

47:14See what is doable and what isn't?

47:18That wasn't really a great motion. I'm sorry

47:22Lindsay go ahead. Sorry. I just saw your hand up there

47:26Yeah, I just wanted to let the committee know on a grand scheme of things the percentage of the amount of times that we would be using

47:33a

47:34driver to passenger message is rare

47:38So it's not a high amount of times where this would occur

47:41Um, I just wanted you guys to have that mindset if you're if you're talking about

47:46tones and what you would like to do

47:48I just want to make sure everybody's understanding that it doesn't happen that often

47:53but we are very uh

47:55Open to any suggestions that you guys have and and I would like to say that our staff would be have no problem going back

48:01if we had to

48:06I can only make maybe add as well that if it is just going to be applied on staff take a path

48:12It probably would be something that would just go into the consent agenda and have for information

48:17This has been applied

48:19as recommended

48:20Um, so they would actually have to kind of return and engage the aac again

48:25Yeah, I just wanted to make sure we set that expectation that we're not going to have them come back again

48:29We're not expecting the city to come back again and ask us again, you know

48:34um

48:36Sarah or or or I don't know who but can somebody put something on the screen?

48:41I think we have a kind of recommended motion maybe to get us started

48:47About us approving these tones and just wanting transit and

48:51Leanne and Sarah to and uh

48:55The accessibility services staff to work together to

48:59That we approve these tones and I don't know how to word that

49:03Is there um one over the other sorry just had to stop but I remember a moment but no there is it one so we want to

49:10The only uh, the only comment was about um, if possible extending the length of the tones to make sure that people

49:17Have enough time to process it cognitively that there's a tone happening

49:21But I think that we could leave that with you to work with transit to see whether that's possible

49:26And we don't need to necessarily see this back again in the next meeting

49:29Okay, I thought that comment was towards this tone number or time number one. That's that's why I'm just asking

49:35So if it's towards both of them, that's fine. We certainly recommend that

49:39Oh

49:41And then that transit can engage with us and we can go ahead with that

49:46Kathy can maybe clarify it. I thought it was both but she might have just been talking about tone number one

49:53It's Kathy and I was just talking about the tone number one, but if the group

49:58took my comment and

50:00Decided that it would fit for both. I I'm okay with that too

50:10So Kathy, are you looking to then maybe make a motion to recommend chime number one, but with the expansion?

50:19Yeah, um, I'm terrible at this. I I have to admit

50:22If someone could support me in articulating that in that motion, that would be most helpful

50:28Okay

50:36And just to clarify was it that you preferred chime number one

50:40And wanted it extended or that if we extended chime number one both

50:45Were acceptable options and you could leave it up to staff to choose

50:49I think the second

50:51Okay, so sarah. It's not so much that it's tone number one being recommended. It's that

50:56It's recommended to extend the length of tone number one and then they're both great

51:28I'm just going to send this over to clerk so they can update it and put it off the screen here

51:34In the interest of time since we're running kind of late. Can you just read it out and we can decide whether we want to move and second it?

51:40Rather than us waiting for it to get sent over and put on the screen

51:44Sure

51:45So I have here that the aac recommend extending the length of chime number one and recommend both chime options as acceptable

51:58Is that something that you would want to move kathy?

52:06Yes

52:08Awesome. Can we get a seconder for that and then we can vote on it? We have a little

52:13Through you chair root. There's also another

52:16Recommended motion that transit brought forward and that's just receiving

52:21the report

52:22so if the committee would like to move that as well as

52:26That second amended motion

52:29So that we receive the report and

52:32That do those have to be separate motions or can kathy choose to add that to

52:37Yep, they can both be moved and seconded at the same time all good

52:41Kathy, would you also like to move that we receive the report which is basically just we heard you?

52:46Like we heard the report

52:48Yep, yep

52:49Okay, awesome. So we'll add that language in too and then in order. Do you still want a second with that amendment to the motion?

52:57Uh, yes

52:59Perfect

53:00Thank you so much lis for pointing that out and does any is anyone opposed to that?

53:08Right, it looks like that one carries. Thank you so much everyone and thank you lindsay for coming today on short notice

53:13We appreciate it

53:16Uh, no problem. Thanks for having me everyone

53:21Right moving along the next item. Um, we have a staff presentation

53:25We have maybe we have tiffani henna here. I don't know

53:31Hey tiffani, oh, I see you there. It's good to see you. Yeah, I'm right here. Sorry

53:35Do I need to have lorya?

53:38Are you okay? We're in sitting loralee. No, no, you're great. Yeah. Cool. Um, so good afternoon a c

53:46I'm here today to talk about the gulf junction railway multi-use trail

53:51Order

53:52Sorry, order. Oh, please my apologies. Um

53:58Uh

53:59So we're planning a new multi-use trail. Um, that is going to connect woolwich street right now. There are existing

54:07um multi-use trail and like pedestrian or

54:11Cycling cross rides at the woolwich speed speed veil intersection

54:15So we're going to connect into that and run along the railway up to woodland road

54:23And the

54:27So it'll be within the gulf junction railway corridor

54:31Um, it's going to be three meters wide and it's going to be about a one kilometer in length

54:36Um, it meets the city's fadm requirements for outdoor recreation facilities

54:42Specifically being three meters wide and an asphalt surface

54:46It'll have a long to two to little slope less than four percent in the report that

54:52Was submitted with this piece

54:55Um, I've described in detail what the slopes are going to look like. I'm also happy to do that now if that's something you'd like to hear

55:01Um, it will also have a two percent cross slope or maximum two percent cross slope

55:06We are going to have rush stations every 150 meters plus or minus 50 meters, which is in line with the

55:13Um motion that we received from the AAC several years ago

55:17With one exception in the middle there are some retaining walls

55:21So we're working with the cemetery to locate a bench in that one section that will be on their property

55:28They seem to be generally agreeable with that. So I don't think that that will be an issue from our perspective

55:34We're also in have detect detectable warning plates. Um, where the trail crosses an existing

55:42Crossing from the cemetery's

55:44East side and west side

55:46So there'll be detectable warning plates there and then we'll also have spaces for signs

55:50But we aren't doing that as part of this couple work right now until we finish the city's wayfinding strategy for active transportation

55:58um

56:00I have

56:01a design

56:03On the next slide, which I've described in detail

56:06um

56:07So the first image shows the design from woodland road to

56:12260 meters away from woodland road the trail runs basically along the property line along the cemetery at the top of the slope

56:20um

56:21So that if you if a train was going by

56:23The eye line of the person on the trail would be the same as the eye line or the

56:28The conductor in the train

56:31And then from 260 meters to

56:33450 meters from woodland road again, it'll be right along the property line. The slope

56:39Goes down a little bit

56:41Um, and this is where you start to get like more of like the train being higher than the person

56:46And then that will continue on until you hit with uh, Woolwich street

56:51Again property the trail will be along the property line. So if you want to flip to the next slide Joey

56:57Um, so that's also described on that or that I also described that in the last slide and then I have a recommended motion

57:04But feel free to recommend your own motion

57:08um

57:09That you support our preliminary design

57:12um for the project

57:15You have any questions

57:19Deborah go ahead

57:22Thanks, I'm kind of excited about this

57:25um, but I I am

57:27um, I because I've used the bike trail there, but I am a little um

57:33Concerned about it being so close to a rail

57:37line a train line

57:39How often do the trains come by and how fast do they come by because I think there might be some barriers

57:47related to that

57:49um, so there's two currently two trains a day that go on there and the trail will be located

57:57Uh 17 feet off of the edge of the rail line

58:01Um, and we also have a real safety audit that describes that it's safe as well

58:09Does that help answer your question?

58:12Um in part, but it's actually thinking through

58:15So if somebody's using this on a scooter or who's hearing impaired

58:21And they're you know talking on their phone on an emergency call and a train comes by

58:27um

58:28You know is it close enough to shut down?

58:31That sort of access that's the the way I was thinking like if someone's talking on a phone

58:38next to the train

58:41On the path

58:43Yeah

58:45like a train is

58:47Like as loud as a train is when you're standing

58:51So yes, like there is but there are examples and are these super long trains

58:56Or are these these are wealth junction railway trains. So it's mostly used for shunting

59:02Um, so they drive fairly slowly through the city

59:05um, I can get more details on the

59:09Like how fast they're moving through the city. Um, if that's something that you wanted more details on

59:15um

59:16We have examples of where the trails run beside the railway. So like the alf

59:22Hales trail down by the river here behind the river run center

59:26And that trail is only located a couple meters off of the train tracks

59:31and then the the downtown trail that runs from

59:36Aramosa all the way up to riverside park and that one is located even closer to the trail

59:42So we're following all the transport canada guidelines

59:46That are required for a trail and we've moved this trail significantly further away

59:52It's as far as it possibly could be without

59:56um

59:57Like being on other properties

1:00:01Great, thank you that answers my question

1:00:08Awesome, ryan go ahead you're next

1:00:13Okay, thank you

1:00:15Have a couple well the the first question I have is uh, you said

1:00:21A person would be eye level with uh, the

1:00:26train driver, uh, which is I I guess

1:00:31My first question would be is how high is how tall is that person?

1:00:36um, because there are people that could be in

1:00:40uh mobility devices in the recombinant bike

1:00:44uh, so

1:00:46um

1:00:47And that makes them quite low can make them quite low to the ground. So

1:00:52uh, would that still

1:00:54Would there still be eye contact there?

1:00:58uh, yeah when I described it as being eye contact

1:01:01It was just that the elevation and where the person would be is significantly higher than the bottom of the train. So

1:01:08um

1:01:12Yeah, so and I can I have some sections

1:01:15That I didn't include in the report that I can share with the ac

1:01:19after the fact

1:01:20Like what that cross section looks like. Um, but I would say it's a couple meters

1:01:25Yes

1:01:26okay, and the other uh

1:01:29comment I would have is

1:01:32uh, would there be a way to

1:01:35notify someone that might be on the trail that

1:01:39a train is

1:01:41approaching like some kind of sound or

1:01:45like a flashing light or something where

1:01:49uh, that might be

1:01:51an addition to

1:01:54I just

1:01:55just

1:01:56observing

1:01:58the environment

1:01:59So I know that when the trains drive through the city, they're required to blow their horn as they go through crossings

1:02:06so because the crossings are

1:02:09um

1:02:10to

1:02:12um

1:02:13Because the crossings are like a kilometer apart

1:02:16I would imagine that someone in the middle of the trail will be able to hear the horns at the Woolwich crossing and the horns at the

1:02:23of woodline

1:02:25crossing, but um, I'm not aware of any

1:02:29technology where they're using this when trails are located close to but that

1:02:34close to railways, but I can look into that further if that's something that we feel is important to look into

1:02:40Thank you

1:02:44Chris had a stand-up in the room

1:02:46Yeah, I first oh sorry hold on Chris first. I see um, we've got somebody whose name I don't recognize in the online who raised their hand before Chris did

1:02:55um, Sarah

1:02:59That's a consultant that goes with staff and unfortunately Sarah sorry we can't have you speak

1:03:04Sorry about that

1:03:07All right

1:03:12That's what I thought might be happening. Um, go ahead Chris. Sorry. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't someone logged in on their spouse's account or something

1:03:19No worries. Thank you. Uh, I just want to ask a quick question to me. Um

1:03:23So is it 17 feet from the the trail is 17 feet from the actual active railroad?

1:03:28Is there any deviation that is it closer to?

1:03:32Or further away from or is that just the median?

1:03:35Distance from the track to the actual trail that's the minimum distance is 17 feet

1:03:39There's some spaces where it's a little bit wider. Okay

1:03:43Because reading here horns and whistles a cane rear wheel railway is responsible for sounding

1:03:50As prescribed by that rule. Um, but there's also a

1:03:56Um, well

1:03:58cessation

1:04:00They applied to it's a bylaw

1:04:03Um, I'm not sure if they can sound the the horn at trail crossings

1:04:08But they do sounded at the at intersections where there's vehicular traffic

1:04:12And those aren't very distant away from trails themselves

1:04:16Uh, I don't think so if there was someone to be crossing in a trail path and the train was coming

1:04:22That would be eventually crossing a vehicular traffic

1:04:25Route then it would sound that horn anyway

1:04:28Um, I think that all of these sort of out of these in my sense it adds up to making it a pretty um safe

1:04:36Uh trail to put in

1:04:38I'd be willing to vote on that. I just want to make sure that um

1:04:42That there is the use of the horn

1:04:46And that it's not completely blocked under the cessation bylaw

1:04:51I don't know that's that's I can confirm with left one that

1:04:56Yeah, I vote if like the like the horns um at willage

1:05:00The other thing to mention that I I didn't mention in my person presentation is that there's going to be a railing

1:05:06between the railway and the trail all the way along it

1:05:11And then we're removing the fence between the trail and the cemetery

1:05:16So then someone doesn't feel tunneled in like in those sections in long corridors

1:05:21So that will also be like another safety precaution and people have concerns about not being able to stay down the trail

1:05:28Like safety with the railway that also

1:05:31Helps as well

1:05:35All right, um, I've got one thought and then we should probably put forward a motion because we've run to the end of our time here

1:05:41Um for me, I probably will never use this trail. Which is fine. It's not for people like me because as a wheelchair user

1:05:48Um, I have a really hard time entering a trail that's going to go for like

1:05:53560 meters without an accessible exit on that trail

1:05:56And it's not really possible to put an accessible exit on this trail and that's fine

1:06:00But I would love to see something in the motion about adding some signage that lets people know as they're entering the trail on either side

1:06:07You are entering 560 meters where there will be no accessible exit to this trail

1:06:13Because if I go down a trail where there's like a coyote or a person

1:06:17I don't feel safe around or something like that

1:06:19I I don't want to commit to staying on a trail that long without having a way to get away or get off of it

1:06:25So that's information that I think disabled users are going to need access to too often

1:06:31We find ourselves halfway into something without realizing how big of a thing we've committed to

1:06:36Um, so I'd love to see a motion saying that we support the preliminary design of the gulf junction railway multi-use trail

1:06:43um

1:06:44with the addition of

1:06:46Perhaps some signage

1:06:48Making people aware of the length of the trail until the nest accessible exit from the trail

1:06:54I can't craft motions or put those forward, but if somebody else would like to move it they I can craft them. I can't move them. So

1:07:00um

1:07:02But yeah, and I think everything else that I heard that would be added to a motion was kind of a staff needs to go away and see like about

1:07:10Uh cessation sound guidelines and things like that. So

1:07:15If anyone is comfortable putting that motion forward or would like to have

1:07:18Uh, take an opportunity to craft something themselves. We have about two minutes here to do that

1:07:23Um, did you have anything to add to that?

1:07:26um, so there will be

1:07:30accessible

1:07:31exits through like

1:07:34There in the middle of the trail, there's a driveway entrance and it's shared pedestrian vehicles

1:07:42For the cemetery, which is a public space. Um, so that'll be in the middle of the trail

1:07:47and there will also be an accessible

1:07:49entrance into

1:07:51the cemetery at the north end your wood line, but like maybe

1:07:56You want to see it's like 50 meters

1:07:58um

1:07:59Into the trail there. So there are kind of two spots in between

1:08:04um, and hopefully there'll be

1:08:06connections into like the tim morton and like the other private but those have

1:08:12those are not at the

1:08:14preliminary stage yet

1:08:17Okay

1:08:18All right. Well, maybe that maybe I can hold that uh piece of feedback for the next time that we discuss this then because we'll have more information

1:08:24But regardless of where the accessible exits to the trail are because it will be a pretty locked in

1:08:30trail, I'd love to see

1:08:32information for people going into the trail about like how long it will be before they can get out and also whether or not it's actually an accessible

1:08:39exit like driveway entrances

1:08:41Often are not easy to get up and down with a manual wheelchair and things like that. So making sure it's actually like an fadm accessible

1:08:49exit and letting people know where those will be along the trail or how far they're committing to

1:08:54We have Chris's hand up in the room

1:08:57So I'd be willing to support the motion as written because of the fact that it stipulates a preliminary design

1:09:03And with that I'm believing that we'll be able to come back to this and put some finishing touches on it

1:09:08But we uh, we accept the design of the trail as as shown

1:09:13In that we don't have to put any curves or any other elevations in there

1:09:17Um, I'd be comfortable with with um, with voting for this motion

1:09:21Okay, would you like to move it and add a caveat about like you would support the preliminary design

1:09:29with the uh caveat that they are going to come back to us or staff are you just I'm not sure um

1:09:37Tiffany whether staff is planning on coming back to us because I would hate to see that we say we support this design and then it never comes back to us, you know

1:09:44Um, we can like I don't know what the process would be

1:09:49Sarah or you could be coming back to engage a c or would it be I don't think I'm done. This is what's happening

1:09:56Yeah, I think that's what the process that we would follow like I'm happy to report back

1:10:01Um, and I'm happy to also include the things that you asked questions about in the motion that you'd like feedback on

1:10:07um, I don't know if there's a process for me to just

1:10:10Do like a short memo or a letter or yeah, you'd be in the consent agenda. Yeah, so maybe that's just to fill us in though

1:10:17That's not so I just want to make sure that like it seems like Chris is saying like this is just our first time talking about it

1:10:22And we'll have a chance to give more feedback down the line

1:10:25But it sounds like this is our one and only opportunity to give feedback on this project

1:10:29So I would like to see something added into the motion about the things we'd like to see added to the design

1:10:35Um, if anybody feels comfortable moving that because we won't get a chance to add things later

1:10:39They might come back and report to us and tell us what they did, but it's not like uh, we're going to get to have another say

1:10:46I send but you said Laura lie there the addition

1:10:49If you wanted to motion that and perks and maybe put it up on the screen to have a look at it. Sure. Yeah, that'd be great

1:10:57um, so always the motion comes up and then I'll

1:11:00I'll go for it from there

1:11:18We could just change it to say the next accessible exit from the trail not the next exit

1:11:23um

1:11:25Because that's the main like it's not just about being able to get off the trail

1:11:29Being able to get off the trail in a wheelchair or if you're a if you have assistive devices and things

1:11:36Other than that that captured my thoughts. I'm not sure

1:11:40I have my hand up and it's liana. Oh, sorry liana. Go ahead. It's okay

1:11:44So I think that tiffany. I just want to confirm is the word preliminary meaning that

1:11:52You are coming back to have a discussion again

1:11:56But your intention is to not because you need to get the design done and and underway

1:12:04Uh

1:12:06I don't know the comments that I heard from the az or deal like we can proceed with design

1:12:12um, my

1:12:14Concern is about adding the accessible signage. So right now the city is working on the active transportation

1:12:21signage pro

1:12:23So the scope of work if that is done at the same time, then I will include the signs

1:12:30But if not, it might be a year like I'm not

1:12:34Installing signs that are going to change the year doesn't make sense

1:12:37So we will have all the accessible signage anything that's agreed upon through that other study

1:12:46Does that but we can still

1:12:48Sorry just in the interest of time. I want to make sure we're not

1:12:51But we can still go ahead with this motion

1:12:53We can still recommend it and then staff can decide whether or not they are able to implement it in a timely manner

1:12:58But if this is like what the aac would like to see that's what our emotions are supposed to reflect

1:13:03That's whether or not. Yeah, sorry. I just I don't know if we need to go back and forth about whether or not

1:13:08Staff are going to implement the signs. This is just like the aac asking for this thing. No, that's fair understood

1:13:14Yeah, sorry. No, no, and I'm not criticizing anyone. I'm just like I don't know if we need to have this

1:13:19Back and forth we can probably go ahead with the motion that chris has moved. So if if we have a seconder

1:13:26Okay, that's fine

1:13:30Brian would like to second is anyone opposed. I'm sorry just in the interest of time. We're taking a little longer on the motions than

1:13:37We have time for

1:13:43I don't see anyone opposed to that motion. All right, so

1:13:48that one passes

1:13:49And yeah, thank you so much, Tiffany. We appreciate having oh wait. I see elizabeth's hand elizabeth. Was that a you are opposed?

1:13:56Just so that we can get uh, no, no, but I have a comment to make after the process of moving is over

1:14:03Because I think you raised a really good point about the idea of having

1:14:07signage saying when the next accessible exit is

1:14:12For generally in trails so that people know going in, you know, how far they have to travel before they can exit

1:14:20Okay, thanks. Thanks for pointing that out elizabeth. I think that's reflected in the motion which has now passed

1:14:26So I think we're good to move on to the next item and I appreciate everyone's uh

1:14:31Engagement on that. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure you weren't opposed

1:14:36No, but I mean it's the the uh, the point is made in this

1:14:41Motion, but there's no action item or statement in the minutes about generally in other trails in guelph

1:14:49Whether this should be something to be considered going forward

1:14:52to be the

1:14:54By the

1:14:56I was just gonna really quickly say lienne

1:14:59That in the procedural bylaw because that's not on the agenda right now

1:15:02We can't really discuss that so I don't want to get us too deep into talking with this

1:15:05But maybe you could email lienne about it later

1:15:08But lienne go ahead, but if we could keep it really brief. I do want to keep us moving lienne

1:15:12I just wanted to say that

1:15:14Like we are hearing you

1:15:17Yeah, and yeah, we've got as tiffy said

1:15:20There's another plan about to happen for the signage. Yeah

1:15:26Awesome, I just didn't want us to open up a whole conversation. That's not on the agenda because the procedural bylaw doesn't let us do that

1:15:33I don't make the rules

1:15:34Um, but thank you so much tiffani for coming. Thank you everyone for your engagement on that

1:15:39And we can move now to once again discussing on the ms street to earl street active transportation bridge

1:15:46We've seen a lot of engagement on this already over the past couple of years

1:15:50And we have jackie k here to do a presentation for five minutes

1:15:56Yeah

1:15:58So there you go go ahead jackie. It's all you so much

1:16:02Thanks for having me again. I'm jackie k with our design and construction team

1:16:06I am the city's project manager

1:16:09For this project and I believe the last time I came

1:16:13To the aac. I gave you guys a very brief update about the emitter oil active transportation bridge project

1:16:19And I think the only design element I was able to share with you at that time was that we were going to build a bridge that

1:16:24Had a four meter wide deck

1:16:26four meter wide concrete deck

1:16:28So now that our project is uh progressing we've been able to determine

1:16:34Um a few um additional are you guys hearing me? Okay

1:16:39Yes, okay. Good. Just making sure I I have trouble sometimes with my headset

1:16:45um

1:16:46So now that we're we're moving things forward. Um

1:16:50We have chosen a bridge design, which is the steel girder bridge

1:16:55We wanted to share some of the additional design elements that we've developed

1:16:59So the report provided outlines a little bit more about the project status and provides you with the those additional details

1:17:06That include, uh, you know the curb handrail and guard heights the location of the lighting is going to be in the handrails

1:17:14So it'll be down lighting

1:17:16in the bridge, uh, and the access slopes

1:17:20So, um, I also have with me today

1:17:23Is our consultant project manager from bt engineering steve taylor who's on the on the call with us as well

1:17:31Um, and then he I brought him because he's he's the design guy. He's the guru. So, um

1:17:37I wanted to to have him here to make sure that we can answer any of your questions and and hopefully

1:17:42provide you with um, sort of on-demand answers

1:17:46So I'm sure we can get more out of this meeting than just hearing me talk. So I thought, um, this might be a good time to open the floor and and, uh

1:17:54receive your feedback

1:17:58all right, um, does anyone have any

1:18:01Uh questions for staff about this we've um, the report was attached to the agenda and we've also seen

1:18:08Quite a bit of engagement on this in the past while so might not need too much discussion. Go ahead, brian

1:18:16uh, yes, I I'm just curious about the

1:18:19uh

1:18:21where

1:18:23Um, if you go back to that slide where I showed the red line

1:18:29So on thank you, uh, so on other

1:18:34end of this connection

1:18:36I'm just wondering about the elevation change is

1:18:40where it connects to

1:18:42the road

1:18:43say on Earl

1:18:46On both sides of the river. I wonder if there's any is there any kind of elevation change?

1:18:54So our our plan is to to have the bridge slope down to grade

1:19:00So we won't we won't have any slopes steeper than 2 so it'll be a gradual decline off the bridge and

1:19:07um

1:19:09To I guess the the sort of entrance area to the bridge on sort of the Earl side and then we'll come to

1:19:15essentially the same grade on the Emma street side. There's an existing sidewalk there that will

1:19:21um

1:19:22Will extend to connect to to the entrance to the bridge on the east side

1:19:28Okay, I

1:19:29Just I was curious about that because I do think there's a bit of an elevation change between Edinburgh

1:19:35and where the bridge

1:19:37or sorry not in bro. Uh, what road is that?

1:19:42Earl

1:19:44uh

1:19:45No, the the one that runs perpendicular to it

1:19:51those Earl

1:19:53Um, I think it's Dufferin. Maybe

1:19:57Yes, you're right Dufferin street sort of um, it starts sloping down towards towards the river. Yeah, you are you are correct there

1:20:06Yeah, so yeah, we'll have it meet

1:20:09Right. Okay. So you'll have it meet to grade

1:20:14on that side

1:20:16Uh, so there won't be any elevation change as soon as a person

1:20:20comes off that road

1:20:22Like off the trail. I i'm just thinking if I'm uh, this gets back to what we're talking about the other trail

1:20:31If I'm a user of a trail, I want to make sure that

1:20:35Uh, I can continue using the trail

1:20:39So if there's a large elevation change or something like that, then it's

1:20:45It's it becomes a challenge or a barrier. So I

1:20:50It doesn't really show in the report

1:20:53outside of the bridge what that elevation change or what the grade might be

1:20:58So, uh, that I guess that would be my only concern

1:21:02Sure, maybe I'll see if uh, Steve can provide a little bit of extra detail on that

1:21:06I know he's been diving into that that sort of connection piece lately

1:21:11Yeah, it's generally flat right between Emma and the railway trail

1:21:16When it connects into the the road, uh, just to the east of the railway trail

1:21:20It connects to the road and we'll have a multi-use path

1:21:23That will continue along the outside of the road to the railway

1:21:30Awesome. Thank you so much

1:21:33Um, does anyone else have any questions for staff about this?

1:21:38Uh, man up

1:21:40Yeah, I'm just wondering I

1:21:42I and and thank thank you for, um, accommodating my ignorance here

1:21:45I'm just wondering what kind of surface covering you're going to be using when constructing this bridge

1:21:50Uh, is it going to be pavement or or is it going to be another surface?

1:21:56It's going to be pavement on the approaches to the bridge and then there'll be a concrete deck on the bridge

1:22:01Okay, and and how about weather abatement? Do you have anything in there in terms of uh, ice?

1:22:07uh, pavement and

1:22:10Things like that for for multiple seasons or is that still in the works to be planned out?

1:22:18It uh, it will be an all season trail, but it will be just a the

1:22:23standard asphalt

1:22:25Multi-use paths on the two sides and the concrete on the on the bridge deck

1:22:29Okay

1:22:31Thank you. That's all

1:22:36I don't see any other hands up at this time. Brian your hand is still up, but I'm assuming that's legacy. Yeah

1:22:42Uh, I was just going to say I looked over the report and it's very detailed and uh, I really appreciate the lengths that have been gone to

1:22:51to hear our engagement and feedback on this in the past and also

1:22:55to uh, make sure that it's meeting the fadm and exceeding a lot of other

1:23:00accessibility

1:23:01Guidelines and things like that. So I'm really comfortable with this and I just wanted to thank staff for

1:23:06Uh, providing that report to us because that's really helpful

1:23:09It's really nice to see something that it's like I don't have any

1:23:13feedback

1:23:15So thank you for that

1:23:16Um, would anyone like to craft a motion saying that we either receive the report?

1:23:22Uh for the for the bridge or that we receive it and would like to make some changes

1:23:30Uh, christina, I I think this might just be me

1:23:33But I think I'd be ready to vote on that without any changes giving the fact that they've been able to accord everything that they've done to the fadm

1:23:40Uh, which is really nice to see. Um, it's been reviewed a whole bunch of times and they've developed a really distinct and well

1:23:49In-depth report here. So I'd be comfortable with voting on that motion as is

1:23:57Perfect. So would anyone like so you're saying you would like to move that we receive the report?

1:24:02Yeah, and not recommend any changes. Okay. Yeah, and in order are you seconding that?

1:24:07I will second

1:24:09All right, is anyone opposed to that motion? All right, that was quick and easy. Thank you all so much for coming

1:24:19to the staff who came today

1:24:20and yeah, thank you again for hearing us and

1:24:23Taking us into consideration. That's great

1:24:26um, just before we uh

1:24:29Adjourned here. I just

1:24:31Mentioned that we do have a couple items in the announcement section just to quickly go. Oh, yeah, I wasn't I wasn't gonna adjourn

1:24:37Yeah, I wasn't adjourning. I was just I was just saying thank you to staff for that

1:24:42I was saying thank you to the staff who came to that

1:24:45Yeah, okay

1:24:48I'm just getting my screen reader back to the right screen

1:24:52Thanks Jackie

1:24:54And I've forgotten the name of the other person who's here, but thank you also

1:24:58Thanks. See you later

1:25:01Hi

1:25:04Okay, everyone bear with me a second while I get my screen reader back to the right screen

1:25:10Oh, so we are just now going into oh, yeah, okay

1:25:12So now the the final thing is that we have quite a few announcements. So that's why we have so much time at the end

1:25:18Here for those announcements. So I think they're all from sarah. Are they all you sarah or?

1:25:24They vary, but I'll start

1:25:26Yeah, go for it

1:25:28So there's just the first announcement here is really just a notification to the committee

1:25:33That the design of public spaces standards development committee

1:25:38Has put forward their recommendations and they are now posted

1:25:42For public feedback. There's a link as well. Um in the agenda for uh,

1:25:48For these recommendations. There's an additional link here for a c members to

1:25:55log on or anyone who was maybe listening from the public who might also have feedback

1:26:00To share their feedback on the initial recommendations to help make the design of public spaces

1:26:06Essentially section or standards of the aod a more accessible

1:26:11um, I've also got the deadline for the feedback posted which is august 29

1:26:16um, and then I also wanted to just offer that leon and I are here to support you in

1:26:22providing your feedback if you're looking to you know bounce some ideas off of us or

1:26:28Have a little bit more of a discussion before you submit your feedback. We are here. So just get on and touch with us and

1:26:34We happy we're happy to help you

1:26:37with that before you submit your

1:26:40formal feedback on the link

1:26:47Right awesome, and I guess there's not really any discussion or

1:26:51Questions for that

1:26:52Yeah, no discussion on the announcement section just kind of like uh, this is happening

1:26:57All right, we have quite a bit of extra time then all right. They didn't realize

1:27:01Uh, there are a couple more here. So I'll just

1:27:05Maybe introduce keely you might as well just tell yeah, you might as well just take over the whole announcement section

1:27:10Because I don't know who's doing which part sarah. I'm sorry about that

1:27:13That's okay. I'm just gonna pass pass it over to keely who's in the room with us here um to introduce herself

1:27:19She is the new additional accessibility coordinator

1:27:24Great. Thank you sarah. So I'm keely

1:27:26This is my fifth year working in accessibility, but I just joined wealth in april

1:27:32So previously I was accessibility and inclusion services. So that would be inclusive rec

1:27:37So I had that recreation background is what I was doing prior to coming to wealth

1:27:41And I'm got lots of background on site plans working with aac in the past

1:27:46and going forward I will be doing the

1:27:49Aac site plan review meeting. So we are meeting after this

1:27:52And again, if you would like to join us

1:27:54I send out the invites and just let me know and we can get you trained up and ready for that

1:27:59And additionally I'll be working on accessible documents and then leigh and nye are starting our pdf remediation for our website

1:28:05So I'm really looking forward to getting that project started

1:28:11Welcome. That's awesome. Thank you. Welcome. Yeah, it's really good to uh, it's good to have you here. We're excited to have you

1:28:19um, and then the next one here on the list was um a clerk's office

1:28:25announcement from lis barber, but she just lost internet. So i'm just gonna maybe

1:28:30Push her to the end here. I'll speak to number four and we'll kind of come back to announcement number three

1:28:36um, so announcement number four is

1:28:39uh to we received some feedback from the

1:28:43from chair route

1:28:45That members were interested in having calendar holds or calendar invites sent out ahead of time

1:28:52In a in a bunch for example or in bulk

1:28:55For the remainder of the year or for example for six months at a time

1:28:59So that we can get the aac meeting dates in your calendar

1:29:03sooner than just the week before

1:29:06um, we think also this may help with um

1:29:10Some of the e quorum calls or emails you may have gotten from me

1:29:14uh in the day before or day of a leading up to an aac meeting asking if you are attending if I haven't maybe heard from you

1:29:22um

1:29:23And certainly in the summer months when we're a little bit more busy

1:29:26So I just wanted to kind of put it out there to please watch

1:29:30Uh for these calendar holds that will be coming out

1:29:34likely by the end of this week for their remaining

1:29:37aac meetings for 2024

1:29:40And maybe even up to february 2025 so that we can get those into your calendars

1:29:46And you can hold the time for us

1:29:51And Liz is back. So I'll pass it over to Liz for her announcement

1:29:57Yeah, hi. Sorry everyone. I lost connection there

1:30:00Um, so Liz from the clerk's office just a quick announcement on our end as many of you

1:30:07may have noticed or know already

1:30:09um

1:30:10clerk's office has um been supporting the aac for the last year and a half

1:30:16So just meeting support

1:30:17Being there to answer any procedural questions help with the motion crafting

1:30:22Joey in the room there is helping with um the hybrid meeting format

1:30:28So displaying all the presentations and making sure we maintain quorum

1:30:32Um, so with that the support will remain but you may see some new clerk faces in the room

1:30:40Because I will be going on maternity leave starting next week

1:30:44So I will be gone for about a year. Um, I look forward to my return

1:30:49But I just wanted to let the committee know that that support still remains

1:30:52We are always here. If ever you want to send us an email or work together on drafting motions

1:31:00um

1:31:01I think the committee has come very far over the last year and a half

1:31:05um, just today we were working together to draft some motions and um,

1:31:11I think our conversations are are valuable and I think staff appreciate

1:31:16um all the contributions and conversations that we've had at the meetings so

1:31:21Continue the great work and I will miss uh being part of the meeting

1:31:26But I'm sure I will just watch in the background if I have time and um, yeah

1:31:30That's just to say that you'll see some some new clerk faces in the room and um, we're always here to support. So thank you

1:31:41Congratulations Liz. I think all of us are happy to hear that you're

1:31:46Expecting and having a maternity leave. That's great

1:31:49Thanks for li

1:31:53And yeah, thank you for the support you've offered us. That's been great as well

1:31:59That concludes the announcement section. So I'll just pass it back to you chair root

1:32:04All right. Oh, that didn't take very long at all all of the announcements took like 10 minutes great

1:32:08So we are adjourning early. We have to actually have a

1:32:11Motion to adjourn early would anybody like to move to adjourn early and then we can vote on it

1:32:19I see a Nordle and a seconder is elizabeth

1:32:23Is anyone opposed to us adjourning early?

1:32:29I see brian's hand up brian. Is that that you're opposed or that you are we're still adjourning early, but it'll be noted if you want

1:32:37I I just have a question. I see that the way finding is

1:32:42uh, well likely beyond the future agenda

1:32:47uh

1:32:48wonder

1:32:49Is there a public engagement component to the way finding?

1:32:54So we aren't actually allowed to discuss that today because it's not on this agenda, but

1:33:00Um, I that's a really good point and I hope you'll email lianne and sarah and discuss with them and ask them that

1:33:06Brian, I'll follow up with that email to you. Okay. Thank you. Sarah. Thank you

1:33:10I'm sorry. I don't mean to crack the whip on that

1:33:13I've just been going through some training with clerks of what we're allowed to be doing and not allow so I appreciate everyone

1:33:19Going on that journey with me, but it looks like we've we've had the

1:33:23It's it's passed that we can adjourn early. So thank you everyone

1:33:28Appreciate you all. Have a good day. Thank you.