Council Orientation and Education Workshop

7:31All right, good evening everyone.

7:33It's just after six o'clock.

7:34It's October the 11th, 2023.

7:37We are meeting here in council chambers

7:39for a council orientation and education workshop meeting.

7:44And before we get into it, as we normally do,

7:47please rise if you can and join us

7:51for the singing of our national anthem.

9:53Great, thank you.

9:54And as we continue,

9:54we'll just have a moment of silent reflection.

10:10Great, thank you.

10:12In our Indigenous Territory Acknowledgment,

10:15excuse me, as we gather,

10:16let us take time to reflect on our privilege

10:18to live and work in Guelph,

10:20a city built over rich Indigenous histories.

10:23We are guests here,

10:24and we should reflect upon the responsibility

10:26to care for this land,

10:28the people who live here today,

10:29and the generations to come.

10:31If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation,

10:35we should take pause

10:36and make these decisions with intention and gratitude.

10:40This place we call Guelph

10:42has served as traditional lands

10:44and a place of refuge for many peoples over time,

10:47but more specifically,

10:49the Anoanric and the Haudenosaunee.

10:52And this land is held as the treaty lands and territory

10:56with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation.

10:59Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman Track

11:02and is part of the long-established traditional hunting ground

11:04for the six nations of the Grand River.

11:07Many First Nations Inuit Métis peoples

11:10who have come from across Turtle Island

11:12call Guelph home today.

11:19Is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest

11:20or any general nature thereof?

11:24By any member, I don't hear, I don't see any.

11:27So official regrets, we do have a few.

11:30Councillor Gowler, Councillor Chu, I think that's it.

11:36Pretty sure that's it.

11:37I think Councillor Rourke is on her way.

11:40Welcome, especially to our five new colleagues, welcome.

11:46Dun, dun, dun.

11:48The Budget 101 workshop, Building Our City Budget.

11:55And so this is gonna be what it says on the agenda,

11:59Budget 101 Refresh.

12:02But the refresh might only really be,

12:04for some of us has been here a little bit longer,

12:07but I can guarantee you,

12:08even those of some of us that have been here longer

12:10are still gonna need some refresh

12:11and still need to learn a lot anyways.

12:14So with that, it does give me pleasure,

12:21a lot of pleasure to go to our Deputy CAO Trevor Lee

12:27to open us up.

12:28And then we're gonna have presentations

12:31from many staff to walk us through.

12:35May I just ask off the top,

12:37are you wanting, is there gonna be breaks

12:40for like questions after every presentation?

12:42Or do you want us just to have the entirety

12:45of the presentation by all staff members

12:47and then just ask questions at the end?

12:48That might be the easiest.

12:50With your indulgence, we prefer questions at the end.

12:52Yeah, perfect.

12:53Okay, just so everyone knows then, so that's good.

12:55And I will turn it over to you, Trevor, go ahead.

13:00Just coming up on screen, thank you.

13:02So good evening and welcome to members of Council

13:04and to members of the public that are tuning in virtually

13:07for our building our city budget education session.

13:10Guelph is an amazing city and it's important

13:13that we move through this multi-year budget process

13:16to consider the critical questions.

13:18How do we build a community?

13:20And as a follow-up, what does it take to make that happen?

13:23As you know, we've got a lot on our plates right now

13:25and I say that as not only administration,

13:27but also council.

13:28We've pledged 18,000 homes by 2031,

13:32but that just doesn't happen overnight

13:34and that doesn't just mean more homes.

13:36It's more people.

13:37It's updating water, sewer and storm water pipes,

13:40it's roads, it's cycling lanes and it's more transit.

13:45It also means more green space

13:46and recreational facilities for people to use.

13:49And it means more city staff to make all of this happen.

13:52The provinces reduce the amount of money

13:54we collect from developers to build more houses

13:57and inflation rates are rising.

13:59And our colleagues at the County of Wellington

14:01need a larger contribution from us

14:02to support social housing.

14:05How are we going to pay for all of this?

14:07If we're going to build what's needed

14:09to support 18,000 homes

14:11and continue to contribute financially to social housing,

14:14we may have to consider increases to property taxes,

14:17service reductions or project deferrals.

14:21We also have to take care of what we already have,

14:23including an infrastructure backlog and aging facilities.

14:28We all have several tough decisions ahead of us

14:31as we work to adopt the 2024 to 2027 multi-year budget.

14:35Something has to give and council,

14:38it will be your job to help us as city staff

14:42find the best path forward

14:43and determine what Guelph answers to this question is,

14:46how do we build community?

14:48We're looking forward to spending this time with you

14:50to help you learn about the budget process.

14:52And we certainly hope that this evening results

14:54in your feeling more prepared and more confident

14:57in your budget knowledge

14:59as you await the release of the budget documents

15:01November the 3rd.

15:05The agenda for this evening will kick off

15:07with a refresh of the budget basics.

15:09Then staff will take you on a deep dive

15:11into the important capital concepts

15:12related to Guelph's multi-year budget.

15:15These include asset management and infrastructure renewal,

15:18growth and service enhancement.

15:21Finally, we'll go over the key influences impacting

15:24the 2024 to 2027 budget cycle,

15:27including inflation, housing,

15:29federal and provincial pressures,

15:32reserve reversals and facilities,

15:34both aged and also growing needs.

15:37We'll wrap up the evening by sharing some next steps

15:39before welcoming questions from council.

15:41Now I'd like to turn it over to Mr. Vo

15:43to introduce key elements of the budget structure.

15:50Thank you, Mr. Lee.

15:52For city staff and council,

15:53a key element of building community

15:55is allocating the money to execute

15:57the programs and services we deliver daily.

16:00New this year, finance has worked

16:02to prepare a budget manual.

16:04This resource is meant to provide detailed information

16:06on key foundational elements that the city uses

16:10to build Guelph's budget.

16:12A link to the manual was distributed

16:15with the revised agenda.

16:16This foundational resource will serve as a guide

16:19for council throughout your term.

16:21It explains legislation that guides the budget,

16:24the internal policies and procedures at the city of Guelph,

16:26as well as an organizational structure

16:28that highlights both internal department

16:30and local boards and shared services work,

16:32value and funding sources.

16:35The budget structure highlights the basics

16:37of municipal budgeting,

16:39which are detailed in greater length in the manual.

16:41We strongly encourage you to use this resource often

16:44as you prepare for the budget

16:46and while reviewing budget documents

16:48once released on November 3rd.

16:51So let's begin with Arifa, fresh of the basics

16:53to start us off on the right path.

16:58Municipalities must create and adopt a balanced budget

17:01according to the municipal act.

17:03The budget should include estimates for all necessary funds.

17:06It sets out the estimated revenues or amount of money

17:10to be raised through property taxes.

17:12To make a balanced budget,

17:13revenues must cover all expenses and reserve transfers.

17:18Regardless of the legislation handed down to municipalities

17:22from higher levels of government,

17:24such as bill 109 and bill 23,

17:26which restrict municipal revenue.

17:29The act requires all municipalities

17:31to maintain a balanced budget.

17:33There are no exceptions.

17:38The multi-year budget is not a set it and forget it approach.

17:41It's more like a reliable vehicle,

17:43which can help you get to your strategic goals.

17:46Last year, Guelph completed its first budget confirmation

17:49and this council's first budget approval.

17:52Since then, you've approved the future Guelph strategic plan

17:56and we're now preparing for Guelph's first four-year

17:58multi-year budget adoption.

18:00Although strong mayor legislation

18:02may have changed the process,

18:04our multi-year cycle remains the same.

18:11On July 1st, 2023,

18:12the province expanded strong mayor powers

18:14to include the city of Guelph.

18:16Legislation states that the budget will be deemed adopted

18:19within 55 days of presentation.

18:22In Guelph, the 55-day period starts on November 3rd

18:26when documents are publicly released.

18:29As mayor and council,

18:30he may decide to shorten this period.

18:33As part of this new legislation,

18:35staff received mayoral direction on July 26th

18:37to prepare a proposed multi-year operating and capital budget

18:41inclusive of the years 2024 to 2027.

18:45This represents the same period

18:46of the approved future Guelph strategic plan for the city.

18:50The mayoral direction asked staff to prepare a budget

18:53that maintains current service levels and minimizes risk,

18:57delivers service levels in accordance

18:59with legislative changes,

19:01keep service levels aligned with the pace of growth

19:04and improve and enhance service levels

19:06from what is currently being delivered.

19:09Staff have prepared the proposed budget as directed

19:12and all budget materials will be provided to council

19:15for consideration on budget launch day.

19:18Although the steps to the budget process have changed,

19:20the goal remains the same.

19:22We want a budget that lets the city provide good public service

19:26to our growing community while staying affordable to taxpayers.

19:33Earlier this year, council,

19:34you approved the future Guelph strategic plan

19:36spanning 2024 to 2027.

19:39The budget is the affordability tool

19:41that dictates the pace of implementing

19:43the future Guelph initiatives.

19:45It links the strategic and operational plans and processes

19:48into a structured long-term framework.

19:51Just last week on October 6th,

19:53staff shared an information report

19:55outlining the future Guelph strategic plan,

19:57key performance indicators or KPIs

20:00that will help measure the success

20:02of the implementation of the strategic plan.

20:05These KPIs will set targets to measure the success of the plan

20:10and form the basis of the reporting process.

20:16To keep the city financially healthy,

20:18we have a long-term financial framework in place.

20:21This framework is based on three foundational principles,

20:24sustainability, vulnerability, and flexibility.

20:28Sustainability is the ability to maintain services

20:31over an extended period providing continuous service

20:34at the expected level to all customers.

20:37This includes investing in infrastructure renewal

20:39and asset management planning.

20:42Vulnerability is the level of resilience

20:44within the organization to handle unexpected negative factors

20:48while still meeting financial and service commitments.

20:51For example, relying on federal and provincial grants

20:54can be risky if funding decreases or stops.

20:57And flexibility is the ability of the city

20:59to adapt to changing opportunities in environments

21:02and avoid threats.

21:04An example of this would be how,

21:05after months of high inflation impacting our ability

21:08to deliver capital projects within approved budgets,

21:12council temporarily gave staff delegated authority

21:15to prioritize as necessary

21:16within the approved capital budget until 2024.

21:21Strategic use of reserves and reserve funds

21:23is key to all three of these principles.

21:26Contributing the right amount over the long-term

21:29to infrastructure renewal and other capital reserve funds

21:32keep city assets in good condition

21:35as our community grows.

21:37Having enough money set aside in contingency reserves

21:41helps protect the city when unexpected events or legislation

21:44such as bill 109 or bill 23 negatively impact

21:48our revenues or expenses.

21:50Reserves also provide flexibility to phase in

21:53and smooth tax levy impacts

21:55when new opportunities or threats emerge.

22:03The city exists to provide services to our community.

22:06This is achieved through investments in programs

22:08and services offered directly through the city

22:10and through funding for local boards and shared services.

22:13The city budget is made up of both operating

22:16and capital components.

22:18The operating budget provides a realistic financial plan

22:21that directs how much money the city will raise

22:23and spend in a year and covers daily spending

22:26for services like emergency response, snow removal,

22:30public transportation, recreation programs,

22:32delivery of safe drinking water and so much more.

22:36The operating budget is made up of both a tax-supported budget

22:39which covers services that are either partially

22:41or fully funded through taxation

22:44and the non-tax-supported budget, which is 100% paid for

22:47by user fees, rates and other revenue sources

22:49that do not include property taxes.

22:53To build community, we must provide infrastructure

22:56and services such as water pipes, sewers, roads,

22:59fire trucks and ambulances, playground equipment and more.

23:03Once purchased or built,

23:05the infrastructure must be maintained and replaced over time

23:09to maintain service levels to the community.

23:12All of these investments are made through the capital budget.

23:17All of the cities, local boards and shared services

23:19are presented on the slide and make up 34.4%

23:23of the total budget.

23:26The city portion of funding for local boards

23:28and shared services is funded primarily

23:30through the property tax levy

23:31with the exception of the Grand River Conservation Authority

23:34which is funded through the water and wastewater rates.

23:38These budgets are reported separately

23:40from the city's traditional tax-supported operating budget

23:42as council does not have direct oversight

23:45of these boards and agency

23:47and has limited control over these costs.

23:50Further details on the city budget structure

23:52are provided in the manual.

23:57The operating and capital budgets are not silos.

24:00The capital budget is funded through transfers

24:02to reserve funds from the operating budget.

24:05This process will be explained in greater detail

24:08in the next segment of this presentation.

24:11The capital budget also impacts the operating

24:13due to ongoing requirement of maintaining

24:15or staffing an asset.

24:17These are known as operating impacts from capital.

24:20This results in an increase in the operating costs

24:22for the lifecycle of the capital asset.

24:25Now I'm going to turn the floor over to Ms. O'Dwyer.

24:38Thank you, Ms. DeVoe.

24:40Let's dig more into this connection

24:42through our capital concepts.

24:46The city has five funding strategies

24:48that are used to fund capital projects.

24:50These strategies are integral

24:52to how we build community in Guelph.

24:54We need to plan for how we grow

24:56and what municipal services the people of our community

24:59will need once they arrive.

25:01Additionally, we need to maintain service levels

25:03by keeping existing assets in a state of good repair

25:07and make progress toward enhanced service levels

25:09as outlined in our strategic plan

25:11and service delivery master plans.

25:13These long-term funding strategies

25:15appear in the operating budget

25:16as transfers to capital reserve funds.

25:19Annual transfers are determined

25:21by taking a long-term perspective

25:23to provide sufficient funds

25:25to cover the long-term capital needs.

25:28Each of the five funding strategies

25:30aims to move forward Guelph's foundational objectives

25:33and are explained in detail in the budget manual.

25:36It's important to understand

25:38that the annual capital transfer is not dependent

25:40on the size of the annual capital budget.

25:43The annual capital budget can fluctuate substantially

25:46from year to year.

25:48By smoothing out contributions to reserve funds,

25:50we create stability in the tax levy and user rates.

25:57The annual capital budget is funded

25:59through the reserve funds

26:00and capital projects are classified

26:02into one of three categories.

26:05Infrastructure renewal is the repair and replacement

26:07of existing assets.

26:09Growth is the investment in assets

26:11for a growing population

26:13and service enhancement is new services

26:16for the population

26:17and formerly was referred to as city building.

26:21Both the infrastructure renewal and growth categories

26:24highlight investments that maintain service levels

26:26to current or future populations

26:28while service enhancement provides

26:30an increased level of service.

26:32Many capital projects encompass all three categories.

26:36Take an example of a road reconstruction.

26:39The existing road may be replaced,

26:42that's infrastructure renewal,

26:44with a widened road or larger water pipes beneath it

26:47to accommodate growth.

26:48And it may also have separated cycling lanes,

26:51which would be considered a service enhancement.

26:54Understanding the differences between these three categories

26:57and why they exist is foundationally important

26:59to understanding capital budget concepts.

27:02We'll explore each one of these categories in just a moment.

27:09But first, one popular analogy

27:11that you've all seen before is the bathtub,

27:14which explains how the capital budget is funded

27:16and the reliance on the operating budget to do so.

27:19The faucet represents the annual operating budget.

27:23The rate of flow from the faucet

27:25represents the annual transfer to reserves

27:27determined by the capital funding strategies.

27:30The annual capital transfers from the operating budget

27:33determine how full the bathtub is,

27:35which represents our capital reserve funds.

27:38The purple bucket represents the money

27:40being taken out of the reserve funds

27:41to fund the approved annual capital budget.

27:45Slowing the faucet or reducing the annual capital transfers

27:48from the reserve funds means the city

27:51must defer capital project investments.

27:54This causes a substantial risk to our city assets

27:56as we look at our aging infrastructure,

27:59which we'll talk more about later in this session.

28:06The largest capital investment category

28:08is infrastructure renewal.

28:10The infrastructure renewal strategy helps in several ways.

28:14Helps us plan for the long-term cost

28:16of maintaining and replacing city-owned assets.

28:19In alignment with the city's asset management plan,

28:22it helps us to determine what needs to be replaced and when

28:25and calculate long-term sustainable funding targets.

28:28And it helps us plan for the renewal of assets

28:30that have a relatively consistent annual expenditure,

28:34such as roadwork, pipe, and sewer replacements,

28:37as well as assets that cause large spikes in expenditure

28:40when they're replaced like facilities.

28:43And then it also helps us to smooth the impact

28:45of these spikes using reserve funds and debt.

28:49The image you see on this slide is an example

28:51of real-aging infrastructure and Guelph.

28:54York Road, which has received the designation

28:56of Western Ontario's Worst Road

28:58and CAA's annual Ontario Worst Road Campaign.

29:03While it is important to focus on growth

29:05during a housing crisis,

29:06we want to bring you back to the question,

29:09how do we build community?

29:11Part of the answer is by investing in

29:13and taking care of the infrastructure,

29:15where our community already relies on daily.

29:17Infrastructure renewal funding is how we pay

29:20to replace and fix this road.

29:26We have a gap between the annual operating transfers

29:29for infrastructure renewal

29:30and the annual sustainable transfer,

29:32as calculated through the asset management plan.

29:36Over the next several slides,

29:37we'll explain how asset management factors

29:39into these calculations,

29:41the impacts outside of council's control

29:44and the levers within council's control

29:46that influence this gap,

29:47and we'll outline the strategy that's in place

29:49to close this gap over time.

29:52We will refer back to this slide

29:53as we provide additional detail.

29:56With a continued commitment to reducing this gap

29:58and increasing annual transfers,

30:01at this time we're forecasting

30:02to meet sustainable infrastructure renewal funding levels

30:05by 2035.

30:07What's important to remember though,

30:08is that this is a dynamic forecast

30:10which will be impacted by both external factors

30:13and council decisions in the coming years.

30:16In the next section of this presentation,

30:18we'll focus on the importance of asset management planning

30:21and we'll kick off that section with a video

30:24after which Ms. Baker will share more details.

30:41The city of Guelph takes pride in providing

30:43and maintaining the many services Guelph residents depend on

30:46every day, like transportation, clean drinking water,

30:50recreation, garbage collection and recycling.

30:53The city has approximately $4.4 billion

30:56in municipal infrastructure assets

30:58that are critical to delivering these services.

31:01These include roads, bridges, sewer and water systems,

31:07recreation facilities and parks.

31:10Guelph is similar to many municipalities.

31:13We are facing challenges

31:14because of our aging infrastructure.

31:16Many of our assets are reaching the end of their lifecycle

31:20and there's a need for new infrastructure to service growth.

31:24This is where asset management planning comes in.

31:27Asset management planning is the process used

31:29to help make the best possible decisions

31:31regarding the building, operating, maintaining, renewing,

31:35replacing and disposing of infrastructure assets.

31:38Simply put, it's all about making the right decision

31:41at the right time for the right amount.

31:44The city focuses on four fundamental goals.

31:47One, providing levels of service that meet expectations

31:50and ensure a high quality of life for the community.

31:53Two, demonstrating sustainable full life cycle planning.

31:57Three, ensuring accountability, transparency and engagement.

32:02And four, managing risks to service delivery.

32:05We take a proactive approach

32:07and initially developed a corporate asset management plan

32:10in 2017.

32:11In 2020, the city developed a new policy

32:14and updated its plan

32:15to meet the new provincial regulation requirements.

32:18In 2021, the city developed a detailed core asset management

32:22plan which included roads and related assets, bridges, water,

32:26wastewater and stormwater management.

32:29These core assets comprise more than 80%

32:32of the total asset base.

32:34Future updates to the asset management plan

32:36will include all remaining city assets.

32:39The planning and policy development process

32:41provides a clear detailed picture of our assets,

32:43needs and priorities,

32:45which plays an important role

32:46in the development of Guelph's multi-year budget.

32:51Based on asset management principles,

32:53a target amount of funding is required

32:55to manage current and future asset risks.

32:58The difference between the target amount and available budget

33:01is what we call the infrastructure gap.

33:06If the infrastructure gap increases,

33:08it will result in assets that will be inaccessible

33:10before their end of life

33:12or assets that are not in optimal condition

33:14and in need of repair.

33:16So we need to balance growth,

33:19catch up on overdue maintenance of existing assets,

33:22finance the replacement of old assets

33:26and modernize our infrastructure

33:28to be better prepared for tomorrow's challenges

33:32while striving to keep property taxes,

33:35water, wastewater and stormwater rates

33:38reasonable for residents.

33:40The city's corporate wide asset management plan

33:44is how we prioritize our infrastructure needs

33:47to achieve the greatest benefit to our community

33:49and to ensure Guelph is a great place to live now

33:52and well into the future.

33:54For more information on the city of Guelph's

33:56asset management plan, visit guelph.ca

33:59forward slash plans and strategies

34:01forward slash asset management program.

34:20Okay, great.

34:21So since 2016, Guelph has been a leader in asset management.

34:25We've been recognized for innovative work

34:27through Ontario Public Works Association, OPWA

34:30and staff regularly speak at conferences and events

34:33to share Guelph's great work.

34:34We're poised to meet the regulatory requirements

34:37under the Infrastructure for Jobs and Prosperity Act

34:39of 2015 over the next two years.

34:42The official regulations identify that each municipality

34:46is required to do or provide

34:47regarding asset management policies and plans.

34:51And we must deliver a corporate wide asset management plan

34:53by July 2024.

34:56The regulations also require council to complete

34:59an annual review of our asset management

35:01related progress and efforts.

35:03As part of this work, we may need to adjust

35:05the city's strategy to meet the goals outlined

35:08in the asset management plan.

35:11On this slide, we show you how asset management

35:13fits into the big picture at the city.

35:16While we are ahead of the trend

35:17when it comes to asset management,

35:19we are still actively working towards

35:20the ideal state shown on the screen.

35:23Across the organization, the corporate asset management team

35:27provides overall guidance and support

35:30for the asset management function

35:32as well as leading data management and analysis efforts.

35:36The team strives to understand the financial needs

35:38for operating, maintaining and repairing of an asset.

35:42Combining that information

35:43with the future replacement costs of an asset is critical

35:46as is knowing what financial resources are available.

35:50For example, if we don't know when we need to replace

35:53a recreation facility roof

35:55and in a situation that it collapses,

35:59we find ourselves in a reactive emergency response scenario

36:03that has potentially put our community members

36:05in harm's way.

36:06And this is also a more costly approach

36:10than to taking care of that proactively.

36:14That's an extreme example,

36:15but one that maybe is easy to understand.

36:19Understanding the life cycle of our assets

36:21and budgeting for their replacement at appropriate time

36:24mitigates these risks, enables us to provide safe

36:27and responsible public services to our community.

36:29We know that there will likely never be enough money

36:32to fix or replace everything that should be done.

36:35And this is why it's critical to understand what can

36:38and should be done in priority within available funds.

36:45The outcome of asset management work will help

36:47by providing quantitative information to aid departments

36:51and informed decision-making, managing and mitigating risks

36:54and meeting department objectives,

36:56providing context that helps departments

36:58provide the desired levels of service,

37:00providing recommendations that will support departments

37:02and optimizing budgets and setting sustainable funding targets

37:06and supporting departments

37:08and identifying future required capital

37:10and operating budgets.

37:13This picture displays how different services

37:16and their assets are connected in a typical city or town.

37:19It also shows each individual service

37:21as it relates to one another.

37:23In the needs of a single asset should not be considered

37:26without understanding how it relates to others.

37:29Balancing the needs of all different asset types

37:31will help to determine the optimal time to replace

37:34and repair them.

37:35A really good current example of this

37:37is the Emmett to Earl pedestrian bridge

37:40that was identified in our trails master plan

37:42to provide an alternative pedestrian and cycling route

37:47for those looking to cross the Speed River,

37:49particularly during the planned reconstruction

37:51of nearby Speedvale bridge.

37:53Staff have conducted a structural engineering analysis

37:56on the Speedvale bridge and have determined

37:59that it is expected to perform without load restrictions

38:02needed for the next five years.

38:06This finding created the opportunity for staff

38:08to reconsider the priority sequence

38:11of other capital works along Speedvale,

38:14resulting in the replacement of the four lane Speedvale bridge

38:17with construction expected to begin in 2026.

38:27The asset management plant integrates information

38:29from multiple sources

38:30and across multiple service delivery areas.

38:34The plan is important for understanding

38:36the current state of assets and the impact on services.

38:39It also helps determine future service levels

38:42and how to get there.

38:43The asset management plan work includes coordination

38:47with service areas and staff to assess their asset condition,

38:50review completed and ongoing approved projects

38:53and the assets affected by them,

38:55establish current and future levels of service,

38:58incorporate the recommendations

39:00from the climate adaptation plan

39:02into this asset management plan work.

39:04And then moving forward, asset management work,

39:09then has met great strides in breaking silos,

39:12improving communications between asset management

39:15and the core services and with engineering

39:20and to discuss assets and any new information about them.

39:23Our asset management planning was helpful

39:25as the city reprioritized infrastructure renewal projects

39:28to determine which projects to move forward

39:30and which should have fur out

39:31due to the fiscal constraints that we were seeing

39:34in the past two years.

39:38The entire asset management body of work

39:41is a process of continuous improvement

39:45and it requires involvement across all levels

39:47of the organization for it to be successful.

39:49The continuous improvement work

39:51matures our asset management services

39:53and increases the accuracy and confidence

39:55in our data and findings.

39:57The completion of a natural asset inventory last year

40:00is an example of the continuous improvement approach to asset management at the city.

40:05The inventory assigns a dollar value to the natural assets in Guelph. So for example, if

40:12we were, if someone wanted to build houses on a wetland or a pond, it would cost the city

40:18a certain amount of money to build a stormwater management pond that would do the same thing

40:23as that wetland pond would do naturally. And now we have the value to be able to apply to that

40:27type of a situation. What's next, um, sorry, what's next for asset management at Guelph during this

40:36term of council? In Q1 of 24, the city will engage the community and members of your wards to determine

40:43current levels of city services. This will inform the 2025 update to the asset management plan,

40:49where we are required to identify the levels of service that the city wants to deliver and

40:54the difference in costs to reach those targets. Enterprise resource planning is a major initiative

40:59involving all departments across the city. Historically, this project was referred to a

41:05CMMS, the corporate maintenance management system. However, it's really more encompassing than this.

41:10It was, it will rely on accurate asset data to provide improved ability to manage our assets

41:16through new software tools and work orders. The asset management team is actively involved in

41:22the foundational work to establish the standards for this program. There'll be more information on

41:28the ERP program in the upcoming session or section. In 2023, the city delivered its first climate

41:35adaptation plan, identifying the risks of climate change to the city. Through the development of

41:41the plan, it became evident that the city's assets may be at risk due to climate change events.

41:47However, we can also play a key role in mitigating those risks as we replace assets.

41:53Finally, because asset management planning relies on quantitative data, it's essential that we have

41:58the right tools to assess the data. With over 100,000 individual assets, this is best accomplished by

42:05using advanced decision priority tools to help identify what should be done first based on a

42:10combination of conditioned data, level of service information, climate risks, and available budget

42:16resources. A key to the success of asset management is having good reliable data to accurately forecast

42:23our infrastructure needs. Strong data warehousing and integration platforms are required to enable

42:28the ability to collect quality data based on common standards and definitions and to continue to

42:34advance cost maturity in asset management overall. So now I'm going to turn things back over to Ms.

42:40Sojourner to talk more about infrastructure renewal. Thank you, Ms. Baker. Now that we know a little bit

42:55more about asset management and its importance to the capital funding strategies, let's return to

43:00those strategies and dive deeper into infrastructure renewal. Recalling the last slide that was

43:05presented before the asset management section, the chart showed the gap between current annual

43:11funding and the sustainable annual capital transfer for infrastructure renewal. We wanted to provide

43:16a bit of history on how the city is working to close that gap. The infrastructure renewal strategy

43:23also referred to as the dedicated infrastructure levy was introduced in 2017 to increase funding

43:29to a sustainable level over a proposed 10-year period. This strategy builds infrastructure

43:35renewal funding by 1% of the tax levy annually until a sustainable level of funding is reached,

43:41in addition to inflationary adjustments. Annual increases are also calculated for utility and

43:48user rate supported reserve funds like water, wastewater, storm water, and parking. As we head

43:55into year seven of this proposed timeline, we know that this plan will take longer than 10 years to

43:59achieve. A sustainable funding for infrastructure renewal is a moving target. How soon we reach that

44:05target largely depends on three factors. First, the level of annual transfers from operating into

44:12reserve funds for infrastructure renewal. Second, the cost of renewing assets which is heavily

44:18influenced by inflation levels. And third, the desired levels of service. While inflation and the

44:25cost of renewing the city's assets are largely outside of council's control, decisions to consistently

44:30prioritize and fund the infrastructure renewal strategy and setting service levels for assets

44:36through the 2025 asset management plan update are the levers that council can influence.

44:42Going back to that earlier slide showing the infrastructure gap, to reach sustainable funding

44:47for infrastructure renewal by 2035, we must continue to invest annually in infrastructure renewal to

44:53ensure there is enough money available to service and maintain our aging infrastructure.

44:58Building a community is not just about building new homes, roads, and services.

45:03It's also about caring for what we already have. We want to turn your attention now to

45:13enterprise resource planning or ERP which Ms. Baker touched on earlier in the asset management section.

45:19An ERP helps organizations automate and manage core business processes and enable real-time

45:25data analysis for decision making. There are two ways to create an ERP. Traditionally, ERP solutions

45:32are achieved through a single system that's heavily focused on finance and human resources.

45:37However, ERP can also be achieved with an ecosystem of multiple best-in-class business

45:42management software tools for different core business processes. The ecosystem approach is

45:48what Guelph will leverage to communicate among all core business processes. Once implemented,

45:54the ERP will support more efficient planning across the organization by providing better data

45:59which leads to improved forecasting and budgeting. The city has established an enterprise resource

46:09planning program as a solution to reduce risks and improve processes, data availability, and accuracy.

46:16This program helps improve asset data collection and analysis. It will also optimize core business

46:22processes like procurement, asset management, recorder management, and inventory management.

46:28A solid data governance framework will be crucial to managing the reliability of the data

46:33maintained in the new system. The result should be better service for the community and better

46:38decision-making capabilities based on improved access to information. Improving the information

46:46about city assets and modernizing the core business processes around all stages of asset

46:51life cycles can create significant efficiencies. It will also improve and simplify the city's

46:58ability to report on the cost of maintaining infrastructure and help predict future needs.

47:03The high-level scope of work for the ERP program includes change management, helping the organization

47:09to adapt to and successfully adopt new processes and technology, standardization of workflows and

47:15processes to collect, store, and use data, including an effective data governance framework,

47:22implementing the software solutions that will make up the city's ERP ecosystem, ensuring the

47:27software solutions are integrated to properly communicate with one another, and ongoing support

47:32to continually improve processes and the technology that supports them. So moving on from

47:41infrastructure renewal, another key funding strategy for the city is growth. The growth

47:47strategy supports infrastructure investments required to grow wealth to 208,000 population

47:52and 116,000 jobs by 2051. When we return to the question, how do we build community,

47:59growth is perhaps the most obvious piece of the puzzle. The city has many tools that guide growth

48:05including our official plan and municipal comprehensive review and service delivery master

48:11plans which guide capital and operating budget investments. Guelph has several funding sources

48:17to support growth. On the operating side, the city leverages property tax assessment and utility

48:23rate growth, user fee growth, building permit fees, and planning and development application fees.

48:30On the capital side, Guelph uses development charges, parkland dedication, community benefit

48:35charges, and property tax assessment and utility rate growth. Development charges are the most

48:43significant source of funding for growth capital. More information about the budget challenges we

48:48are facing as we seek to grow our community and meet Guelph's housing pledge will be provided later

48:54in this presentation. The city's service enhancement funding strategy supports strategic investments to

49:02advance council's strategic plan and approve service delivery master plans to enhance service

49:07levels for the community. It's important to remember that growth investments help expand

49:12services to new residents and businesses at the same level provided to the existing community.

49:18For example, providing transit to a new subdivision within the same hours as those provided to the

49:24rest of the city. Service enhancement, however, increases the service level for all residents

49:29in Guelph. For example, increasing the number of transit routes or increasing the frequency of

49:34transit service. Both service expansion and service enhancement are key aspects of building

49:40community. Finally, to fully understand the connection between operating the operating and

49:49capital budgets, we must also consider the operating impacts from capital. Capital projects can impact

49:56the cost of operations and the operations themselves. Operating costs associated with capital

50:02expenditures include examples such as hiring a bus driver for a new bus or staffing a new

50:07facility once it's built. Ensuring that operating impacts from capital are factored in when capital

50:13expenditure decisions are made is a fundamental piece of the overall budget development process.

50:19When a capital project is approved, the future operating costs are also approved. This may lead

50:24to an increase in the future tax levy. A new ambulance, for example, doesn't uphold community

50:30well-being sitting in a parking lot. It also needs to be staffed with a team of skilled paramedics to

50:35attend to community member needs. And with that, I will turn it over to Ms. Newland for the next

50:41section of our session. Thank you, Ms. O'Dwyer. So far this evening, you have had a refresh of

50:54municipal budget foundations as well as a deeper dive into the capital concept and strategies

51:00that we build upon here in Guelph. Now I want to shift our attention to some of the key influences

51:06impacting our 2024 to 2027 multi-year budget. When we think about how we build community,

51:16the 10-year capital plan is a critical planning document to help the city achieve

51:21what is set out in the future Guelph strategic plan. To begin developing a 10-year plan,

51:27we must consider the city's official plan and secondary plans, master plans, strategies, and

51:34action plans. We also need to bring in the impacts of our existing aging infrastructure

51:40and the backlog that has been building at a time of higher than average inflation.

51:45If you take a moment and think back to all that council has approved in the past three years,

51:51from the updated official plan and Claremolpe secondary plan, to the water, wastewater, and

51:58solid waste master plans, the parks and rec mass parks and recreation, and parking master plans

52:06just in the last two months, let alone the future ready transit action plan, the cultural plan,

52:14urban forest management, natural heritage, and climate adaptation. The amount of service planning,

52:25maturity that need to be combined into our capital plan has been immense.

52:31We have dedicated years to getting the foundational service plans in order

52:35so we can deliver the services to our growing community. Now is the start of really looking

52:42at the combined financial impacts of what this means. Not only are we trying to build a 10-year

52:50affordable capital plan with all the complexity of all the planning documents we just spoke about,

52:56but we're contending with numerous funding sources that are changing and complex like

53:02development charges, community benefit charges, and municipal accommodation tax,

53:07and ICIP grant funding to name a few. Every week it feels like new grants and funding

53:14opportunities get announced. We welcome these opportunities, but being able to take advantage

53:20of them means diverting staff capacity. This is because we need to assess impacts, what would

53:28qualify, and figure out what that means in terms of budget funding sources and support the preparation

53:36of application documents. Needless to say, our capital plan needs to be dynamic while tabling

53:44the capital budget is a point of time. We need to find a better way to manage these changing

53:50influences within the appropriate governance structure for council. As we pulled all these

53:56plans together, simply put, our current funding and staffing levels are not sufficient to execute

54:03the vision. Given the fiscal constraints we're facing and trying to balance affordability,

54:10staff have revised the capital plan multiple times. We are now only focusing on the next four

54:16years. We don't have enough time to review the entire tenure plan right now. What you will see

54:23in November are several project referrals, as well as new funding requests, trying to bring

54:29council's visions into reality, but over a longer time frame. None of us wanted this to be the answer.

54:37These have been and will continue to be tough conversations followed by difficult decision

54:43making. We look forward to having this be the starting point of the capital budget and planning

54:49conversation will extend into the budget confirmation year as well. As we move through the key concepts

54:59that have informed the development of the multi-year budget, it's important to note that the pressures

55:05that the city of Guelph is feeling are not unique. All comparator cities near and far have the same

55:13challenges. In September 2023, Standard and Poor stated that for Canadian municipalities,

55:20we expect that higher than typical tax increases will likely continue in the next two years in

55:26response to the impact of elevated inflation on both operating and capital costs. As you read,

55:34as a result, Guelph is focused on investments that support our core work and meeting community need.

55:41We are trying to mitigate the tax impacts, but also ensuring we keep delivering services as

55:47expected. Our first key budget influence to discuss is inflation. As of July 2023,

55:58common commodities typically used in capital construction are 20 to 50 percent higher than

56:03in January 2020. The non-residential construction price index for Toronto increased by 20.6%

56:12from the third quarter of 2021 to the first quarter of 2023. The rate of inflation continues to remain

56:20above target so far in 2023, despite nine hikes to the Bank of Canada's key policy interest rate

56:27since April 2022, totaling 4.5%. As you can imagine, this has put significant pressure

56:38on our ability to afford infrastructure projects with the current capital funding levels.

56:44Transfers to pay for capital projects have not kept pace with inflation because of tax and rate

56:50affordability, and this is leading to the reality of capital project deferrals more than we expected

56:58or want. If you recall, through the capital prioritization work that was undertaken in 2022

57:07as a way to respond to the significant inflation over the past two years, we have deferred several

57:13capital projects from 2022 and 2023 to be re-budgeted in future years at a higher future cost

57:20due to inflation. Translating these market conditions to the capital funding levels

57:29that pay for infrastructure projects, staff calculated the historical adjustment that would

57:35be needed to at least maintain our funding to deliver the same level of capital projects.

57:42In addition, we estimated the forward-looking 2024 adjustment for future inflation.

57:49In an ideal scenario, this would mean adjusting capital funding for infrastructure renewal

57:54up for 2024 to address inflation by 8 million in property taxes plus another 11 million in rates,

58:03just to maintain our current project delivery. And this is before the 1% infrastructure renewal

58:10strategy to reduce the gap between the current and sustainable funding levels for infrastructure

58:15renewal. The inflation figures presented translate to a tax levy impact of over 2.5%

58:23and a rate impact ranging from 8.5 to 22% in 2024, which to be blunt, we don't feel is something that

58:33council nor the community can absorb. In this multi-year budget, staff have recommended increases

58:42to capital funding smoothed over the four-year period but not nearly to the level that is needed.

58:49The capital plan at this point has been balanced to a 2% tax levy impact all in, including inflation,

58:58historical backlog increase, and historical approvals of capital increases for RACE to Zero

59:05and the Baker District Library. The key takeaway message here is really to emphasize that staff

59:12have had to make project deferrals to balance the capital budget to match the capital funding

59:17levels available. If council chooses to lower the capital funding, there will absolutely need to

59:24be further capital plan deferrals and cuts to balance the budget. Shifting over to the operating

59:34budget, inflation is still a reality here too. There are many services and goods the city depends

59:41on annually that are seeing higher costs due to inflation. Compensation and benefits accounts for

59:48just over 50% of the total expenditure budget. Inflation factors for economic increases based

59:55on provincial legislation and collective agreements range from 1.75 to 6.77% with the average increase

1:00:03being closer to 3%. In addition, changes to statutory remittances also impact our cost to

1:00:11deliver services. In 2024, CPP is moving to a two-tier deduction which has increased city costs

1:00:19by approximately 400,000. Various contractual agreements are in place with our benefit providers

1:00:26which have increased anywhere from 3% to 13% over the forecast. Other areas where the city has seen

1:00:34increasing costs that have been shared with council through variance reporting and 2023 budget

1:00:39confirmation are fuel, chemicals, utilities, medical equipment and parts and materials.

1:00:48None of these cost increases should take you by surprise. The insurance market has also hardened

1:00:55and insurance costs are increasing as well. We all know it costs more today to buy groceries

1:01:02or fill your tank than it did last year. The city experiences this too with products we must

1:01:08purchase to provide city services. Staff have worked to smooth these impacts over the four years

1:01:14by using a salary gaping and basin strategy. The second influence in the budget that we would

1:01:24like to discuss is the funding of one-time expenses from reserves. We wanted to bring

1:01:31attention to the reality that we aren't starting 2024 from a place of zero tax impact.

1:01:37We have used reserves in past years to smooth the impacts of significant investments in accordance

1:01:43with our multi-year budgeting approach and policy. Many of the items on the list were recommended

1:01:50by staff due to the budget confirmation process but also because multi-year budgeting enables

1:01:56long-term thinking and a slow build of the budget over time. We were able to do this because we had

1:02:04a good solid operating contingency reserve position. We have depleted this position by using

1:02:12reserves in 2022 and 2023. Between the use of the reserves recommended by staff plus the additional

1:02:20usage approved by council during the budget confirmation process, our tax contingency reserve

1:02:26position is projected to be sitting at approximately 76 percent of target at the end of 2023.

1:02:33We used the rainy day funds in 2022-23 as we were coming out of the pandemic and because of that we

1:02:39are starting 2024 with pressures from the past. The ability to use our reserves to smooth out

1:02:47impacts is declining. We need to be careful with how much we are deferring each year without making

1:02:54actual base service reductions to lower costs. Staff have continued to use basin strategies

1:03:01for 2024-2027 but we wanted to ensure we had this conversation to communicate that our flexibility

1:03:09is diminishing. With the proposed use of reserves through 24-27 to phase in impacts, contingency

1:03:17reserves are projected to decline to approximately 36 percent of the target balance by 2027. This

1:03:26is without additional deposits during this time frame from year-end surpluses if they materialize.

1:03:33In short, staff have exhausted the use of tax contingency reserves through the planning process

1:03:39and do not recommend that council use contingency reserves any further. I'm going to pass things

1:03:45back over to Ms Baker now to discuss bill 23 challenges. Okay, so bill 23 and making us whole.

1:03:58So the third budget influence that we want to discuss, sorry, the third budget influence that

1:04:06we want to discuss now are the impacts of bill 23 and meeting our housing pledge. The cause of

1:04:11enabling growth is about more than just building houses. It brings us back once again to the question

1:04:17on how do we build community. Before houses, apartments, offices, and industrial parks, the

1:04:23city must build water, wastewater, stormwater, and road infrastructure. Once built, the additional

1:04:28population and businesses need emergency services, transit, parks and recreation, library, and other

1:04:35services to grow to serve this larger population and support our high quality of life. Development

1:04:41charges are the largest revenue tool we have to support capital costs expanding these services

1:04:46for our community. The development background development charge background study calculates the

1:04:51DC rates required to fund the specific capital projects needed to provide city services to

1:04:58this community. Charging lower rates than allowable under the DC act is an option for council,

1:05:05but it means that other sources of funding are then needed to make up that gap in addition to

1:05:09funding needed to make up the legislative required gaps created by exemptions, discounts, and phasins.

1:05:19Over several meetings, we've talked about making us whole and calling on the government to replace

1:05:24lost DCs from bill 23. Tax and utility rate payers are subsidizing the capital costs of growth,

1:05:30which are were not fully covered through the development charges and other growth revenue

1:05:34sources before 23. And now it's significantly worse. Prior fiscal models had demonstrated that

1:05:41by build out with assessment growth and rates factored in that growth might pay for growth

1:05:46in over 30 years time, but that was before we got the 23 changes. Now the change to

1:05:53development charge exemptions and the discounts and phasins that have been introduced, the city

1:05:59is left with an additional cost of estimated to be 227 million over 10 years. The fiscal models

1:06:06have not been updated, but what is clear now is that we're all paying for growth assessment growth

1:06:13and rate growth rate growth will not cover these additional costs plus the operating service costs

1:06:19required to service that growth when it occurs. If we consider making the city whole being the

1:06:26act of getting us back to be to pre bill 23 DC revenues that 227 million is our gap. So these

1:06:36are not budget figures. These are the total estimates based on the consultants work as part

1:06:42of the DC study. Some of these costs are very front ended specifically the first 38 million

1:06:47that you see on the screen. Those are phasing costs and this lost revenue will we will experience in

1:06:53the next four years only. The 134 million, the 34 million and the 12 million quoted on the screen

1:07:01are referenced. They are purely dependent on development that occurs in the city. We have no

1:07:08control when affordable housing or purpose built rental development or accessory dwelling units

1:07:13will occur. But when they do, those are the lost DCs that we will have to make up with taxes and

1:07:20rates. We don't have a choice legislatively. Finally, the nine million dollar figure, the last

1:07:26one on the slide at the bottom is more within our control. We can decide as a city to do fewer

1:07:32studies and lower that cost. As we have been working through our DC study, we have found

1:07:39that that nine million dollar figure may grow to as large as 15 million because of making up the

1:07:45current deficit in the reserve fund from historical studies and administrative spending. And we'll be

1:07:51working through more understanding of this with the consultants before the final DC study is

1:07:56presented in January. So like I just mentioned, development charge legislation requires the cost

1:08:06of these exemptions, discounts and fees and revenues to be funded from other revenue sources

1:08:13to keep the DCs whole. And these other sources are basically property taxes, water, wastewater,

1:08:19and stormwater rates. Budgeting for exemptions is tricky because there are many variables that

1:08:25impact the fully realized cost of these exemptions. And these can include the level of building

1:08:32activity, the type of building activity, and then off till the timing. But we don't have a choice,

1:08:38as I mentioned, when the development happens, these are costs that we have to bear.

1:08:43Staff have taken the 10 year cost estimates you just saw and will propose a way to budget for

1:08:48these impacts, taking into consideration that we're advocating to the province to make us whole.

1:08:53We need them to fix this gap in our financials as they have, rather than forcing this cost on the

1:08:59tax and rate payers. The budget therefore is proposed at a fairly aggressive phase in and I

1:09:10probably would frame it as under budgeting, the real impact that's going to hit us as we look for

1:09:17help from our upper levels of government. What you see before you on the slide in the first column

1:09:23is the estimated cost of the loss revenue in each year of the four year budget, which totals

1:09:29approximately 84 million. This is our best estimate taking into consideration all the variables we

1:09:34just talked about. This estimate could also be low because we did not factor in the cost of the

1:09:41exemption for affordable and attainable housing. At the time of preparing the materials, the province

1:09:48had not yet released the definition on affordable housing. And as a result, we assumed that it was

1:09:53not going to be a factor for us to manage in the very short term. As you may be aware on September

1:09:5828, the province has now tabled a new definition for affordable housing as it relates to the DC Act.

1:10:05And so all indicators are now pointing that this will be enacted in the shorter term, likely in 2024.

1:10:13So sliding over the next two columns are what staff are proposing. We actually budget for this cost,

1:10:19phasing in the impacts to try to use future assessment growth where possible to offset these

1:10:24loss revenues. You can see we're being very aggressive at not budgeting the full potential

1:10:30cost over the four years. This may or may not turn out to be the right strategy, but it's where we

1:10:36are recommending based on our professional assessment and the balance of our reserves.

1:10:43I would like to note that the cumulative row at the bottom is not reflective just the straight

1:10:49sum. It's the cumulative over the four years. And so really you're looking at the 84 to the 33

1:10:56is really at the end of the four years, the differential. Working within this new legislative

1:11:01environment, we feel it's important for you to fully understand the challenges that we face.

1:11:07The city's tax support of growth reserve fund balance will be projected to be negative for the

1:11:12next 11 years or until 2035 because of the information before you. Our water, wastewater,

1:11:20and storm capital reserve fund capacity is significantly impacted by the requirement to

1:11:25fund these exemptions, phasings, and discounts. To provide added context, this means that the

1:11:30city's water capital reserve fund projected exemptions equal up to 29% of the transfer

1:11:38in 2024. Just to put some context to how significant this is compared to our actual transfers

1:11:44previously. We cannot meet the housing targets if we don't build growth enabling infrastructure,

1:11:49but we cannot build the infrastructure if we don't have these capital revenues.

1:11:56It's a pretty, it's a vicious cycle with no good answer. We need the province to come to the

1:12:03table to fill this financial gap and we want, we want to build the infrastructure needed to

1:12:08help our housing crisis. We need a better deal. We will be monitoring DC collections and exemptions

1:12:17very closely and if we don't have enough budget, the city will need to pause growth enabling

1:12:23capital projects mid-year given the uncertainty that remains in terms of government support as well

1:12:30as the budget as presented or the budget estimates as presented. It's important to note that the

1:12:36mechanism to slow growth is not at the time of the development charge bylaw approval.

1:12:44The development charges are a revenue tool that the city desperately needs. If council wishes to

1:12:50slow the pace of growth and the mechanism and the time to do that is in the funding choices that

1:12:55you make as part of the budget. The budget is where you as council decide whether the capital

1:13:04budget and program is affordable and with the growth infrastructure that's needed to meet the

1:13:11housing pledge. So our housing challenges extend then from enabling infrastructure into our most

1:13:22vulnerable population. As you heard and learned more about in the July special council workshop on

1:13:31housing, the county of Wellington is our consolidated municipal service manager. They're

1:13:35responsible for delivering social housing services and they set the budget and the city

1:13:40then funds our share which sits at for social housing approximately 90% of that total. Historically,

1:13:47the city has found that there has been surpluses on an annual basis and as a result had started

1:13:55taking approach to slightly under budgeting the city's contribution to social services

1:14:02and it's served us well over time and however just with the crisis before us we are seeing for the

1:14:09first time in many years that we are projecting an over budget variance on that line in 2023.

1:14:17So in the 2023 budget confirmation process, the timing of the final county budgets

1:14:25was conflicted with the city process and there was an increase that was deferred by the city and

1:14:31communicated to council at the time and so right now as we sit the 23 budget as approved for the

1:14:38city is $2.1 million short of what the county had budgeted and so if you forecast that into 2024

1:14:51then we're behind kind of as the starting point that amount plus then the increase that would get

1:14:57us to 2024 to match their budget and in total that equals the 5.6 million on the left-hand side of

1:15:04your screen and so this would be a significant adjustment to take in one year and so staff

1:15:11are recommending we phase that in over the four years and so you will see that in the in the

1:15:17tabled budget. This plan would get us back to where we should be understanding that 2023 is only one

1:15:24year in recent history and so we can monitor that catch up over time. In addition to this,

1:15:34county staff have presented preliminary budget requirements at the September 12th special

1:15:38council meeting that would be in addition to the above projections. This would be to implement the

1:15:44updated housing and homelessness plan in 2024 and 2025. The county had projected significant

1:15:51increase in the costs which the city share would be approximately 4.6 million in 2024 and 1.2 and

1:15:5825. The additional budget will address homelessness prevention, investment and emergency services

1:16:04emergency shelters, transitional and supportive housing units, enhanced funding in the rents

1:16:10supplement program and increased maintenance costs to support current housing stock. So you can see

1:16:16then in the final column after we add in the new investment that the impact from social housing alone

1:16:24in terms of the tax levy impact works out to up to just over two percent just in 2024. We will get

1:16:35more detailed projections from the county this month as they work to finalize their budget.

1:16:41So with that I will now hand it over to Mr. Vilkel to speak more to you about our last

1:16:47budget influence this evening. Thank you Ms. Baker. Another area that greatly influences the

1:17:00budget is the aging city facilities that staff operate from. As part of ongoing asset management

1:17:06we rely on facility needs assessments and master plans to evaluate the infrastructure condition,

1:17:11consider growth projections and how to maintain levels of service, recognize efficiencies and

1:17:16ultimately develop recommendations. In 2019 the city conducted a facility needs assessment for

1:17:22operational facilities. You may recall that the spring the fire and paramedics facility needs

1:17:27assessments was also completed following earlier master plan completions for water and wastewater.

1:17:34As we look to implement the recommendations from these plans in the capital budget some of the

1:17:38challenges we face are first off financial. These are generally large facilities of high dollar value

1:17:45and are required in a condensed and concurrent time frame. As you know there's also base budget

1:17:50pressure, inflationary pressure, debt capacity to consider and competing priorities to navigate.

1:17:57Regarding the infrastructure itself many of these facilities are end-of-life assets primarily with

1:18:02insufficient space creating operational inefficiency. In some cases there's limited electrical

1:18:08capacity, deficient conditions or limited renovation options. Service delivery impacts to a growing

1:18:13city are a significant risk if recommendations are not implemented. We recognize the importance of

1:18:24reconciling the need for the renewal of aging facilities with balancing affordability for

1:18:30taxpayers. Our approach has been to defer project implementation based on affordability.

1:18:37Continue detailed design processes in advance allowing capital cost estimates to be refined.

1:18:45Maximize funding opportunities with grant funding strategies, sequence work based on opportunity

1:18:51and priority, repurpose facilities internally or feasible and leverage strategic real estate

1:18:57considerations. The plan and timeline to tackle the city's aging facilities is indicated on the

1:19:07slide. The capital budget for each of these projects is broken into two groups, costs in the period

1:19:132024 to 2027 and then the following six years in 2028 to 2033. It's important to note that the values

1:19:22listed are considered placeholders. Design phases will confirm the scope of work thereby

1:19:27refining and validating the cost estimates. Cost saving considerations are a key component and

1:19:33integral to the design development process. The table illustrates the cost impact associated

1:19:40with a broader range of facilities as growth requirements for water and wastewater projects

1:19:45are layered in with the operational facilities and the emergency services facilities. The transit

1:19:51facility and fleet facility are eligible for grant funding and are vital for electrification of

1:19:56buses which brings us closer to achieving the city.

1:20:00strategic environmental goals. The Clithe water treatment plant, the biosolids facility upgrade

1:20:07and the tertiary treatment facility are based on master plans to support growth. A key paramedic

1:20:13station within the state limits requires replacement. As such, these facilities are identified in the

1:20:202024 to 2027 timeframe. Although the need to replace the balance of the facilities is still

1:20:27very high, the remaining projects have been deferred to the next budget cycle.

1:20:31The fire headquarters replacement and additional paramedic stations have been deferred even further

1:20:36beyond the 2033 timeframe. The total cost impact associated with facility replacement is

1:20:44significant. However, using strategies that include maximizing grant funding, supporting growth,

1:20:49deferring implementation and allowing design work to validate and refine costs are all being

1:20:56implemented. This is in an effort to balance the difficult equation of operational needs,

1:21:01efficiency and service delivery with affordability for the community. I'll hand it back to Ms. Baker

1:21:08to close off the presentation. Okay, so really, I just really wanted to thank you for the time

1:21:21tonight. It hasn't been maybe the easiest information to share, but before we close with

1:21:30questions, we did want to share some of the important next steps for you as counselors.

1:21:35So on November 3rd, we will be launching the budget and at that time the budget board will go

1:21:40live and this starts the clock then also on the 30-day period, the new legislative period for

1:21:48strong mayor legislation in our budget process. The budget board is a public forum which allows

1:21:54you as counselors to ask questions to staff in advance of the budget amendment night and have

1:22:00answers to your questions posted publicly. The budget board will remain open until November 26th,

1:22:06at which point it will be closed to new postings to allow staff enough time to respond.

1:22:12On November 7th, we will present the golf budget followed by then public delegation night on

1:22:18the 15th. Following the presentation, we welcome you to host a town hall in your ward. These town

1:22:26halls will be council led, however, staff will be available to support as you need. We will work

1:22:35to provide you with the toolkit to support your community discussion. A special council budget

1:22:41amendment meeting is planned for the 29th. Council, this is your opportunity to bring forward

1:22:48amendments to the table budget. Following tonight's meeting, clerks will be sending out a quorum

1:22:53check for a tentative hold for a meeting in the afternoon on December the 13th for the potential

1:22:59date needed if there is to be an override to the mayoral budget veto. We all know how busy

1:23:05that month of December can be and therefore just a practical approach to this will result in better

1:23:10preparedness for this new process. The meeting will not become firm until there's been the

1:23:16appropriate process followed to override any potential veos as part of the new legislation.

1:23:24Finally, as in years past, council will be provided a staff appointed budget buddy.

1:23:29Your budget buddy will initiate a connection with you following the session,

1:23:34likely more the end of the week. This resource will be your direct contact with finance and will

1:23:41be your liaison with you as you navigate the for your multi-year budget.

1:23:49So we can't do everything and balance affordability for the community. We need to collectively

1:23:56consider this the question of how we build community and what it's going to take to get there.

1:24:00To bring this evening full circle, we've pledged 18,000 homes by 2031 and we're going to also balance

1:24:07this pledge with with our service proper services once people arrive and with our current infrastructure

1:24:14backlog. We have many tough decisions ahead of us and we look forward to working with you

1:24:19throughout the budget process. Together we can find a solution that does balance affordability

1:24:24with our progress while continuing to provide public services that our community expects.

1:24:29So thanks and Mr. Mayor. That ends our presentation. Okay. Well, thank you.

1:24:38Um, I just want to get maybe this eyeball some of my colleagues here. Do you want,

1:24:44does anyone want to take like a five minute break and then come back just to kind of collect ourselves?

1:24:50I'm seeing lots of heads. No, I, yeah, even for staff. Let's just take five minutes. Okay.

1:24:56And, and then we'll come back just because we've just, you know,

1:24:59digest all that stuff that we just heard. So it's 720. Let's try to get back here at 725.

1:25:06Okay. Thank you. Okay. Well, we're back. Sorry for the actual little bit of time there.

1:40:23So I'm sure there's questions of clarity and sort of where we're going here from my colleagues.

1:40:31And I would just, I would just ask that we try to try to remember, including me,

1:40:39that it's not like completely like, what do you think line item 4002 is? And like that,

1:40:46that stuff comes later when an actual budget is tied to actual reports and or business cases or

1:40:53the details are actually released. This is more of a workshop setting where, you know, it was,

1:41:02it's, it's walking us through all the elements of what the budget is going to be. And it's,

1:41:09it's a workshop here to kind of help us understand that. There's obviously some

1:41:18huge pressures, obviously, that we're hearing from staff as they build those elements within to the

1:41:24budget. I mean, I, we all know it. So, but I just don't want us getting like micromanaging right

1:41:32down to stuff that isn't yet presented. Okay. I think that this makes sense. So with that kind of caveat,

1:41:41like, I mean, I have, I have a few questions, maybe you guys will get to it before me. Lucky

1:41:45me, I get to go last. But I see Carly, I'm sorry, Councillor Klassen, I see Councillor Alts.

1:41:52And then Richardson, I'll start with those three. And then I did see a couple other hands on screen

1:41:56there, Erin, Dan. And it's a workshop. You don't have to do the whole through the mayor thing. Okay.

1:42:02We'll just keep it casual as we're talking with staff about where we're going. Okay. Thanks a lot.

1:42:08Okay. Thank you. So I was just, you know, reflecting as we were receiving the presentation,

1:42:15and we talked quite a bit about affordability. And then we spoke specifically about the growth

1:42:21infrastructure required to hit the housing pledge. And I'm sure I'm not alone in, in wanting to ask

1:42:28this question. So we are not whole, we know that we're not whole, but we haven't received that,

1:42:35that update from the government prior to putting this budget together. So we can't grow to hit

1:42:41the 18,000 homes before 2031. And so my understanding is that that pledge is built into our strategy,

1:42:49but we don't have the province like the, when we set that pledge, we set, send back a bunch of

1:42:55caveats of why and how we would hit that pledge. So if we don't have those items in place from the

1:43:00province, how can we budget for something that we can't do? And do we have an alternative budget

1:43:10that doesn't factor in such an aggressive growth strategy, knowing that the province isn't, isn't

1:43:17making us whole? Hope that makes sense. So through you, Mr. Mayor, I would say that staff have used

1:43:32their professional opinion and understanding, especially with the master plans and every,

1:43:40all the studies that we've done to build this budget, and that those studies have been integral

1:43:47to us understanding what needs to be done to meet those housing targets. And so that is how

1:43:52the capital budget was built. It was based from those studies and those plans and the professional

1:43:59advice of our staff. We do not have multiple capital plans or capital budgets. We have one.

1:44:10And our ability to have multiple versions, like we just don't have that ability to have multiple

1:44:14versions and multiple scenarios at this point in time. And so that's why in the presentation,

1:44:20we said, you know, we developed the plan and then we've had multiple revisions to start deferring

1:44:25and shifting out. And so through that process, we've, you know, and we continue to do that at

1:44:30this point. This workshop was really meant to kind of bring you into the process as council and to

1:44:36kind of, you know, provide this opportunity to discuss those challenges. But yeah, so there's

1:44:42really only, there's one, there's one budget and we're doing our best to budget within kind of that

1:44:47in certain environment. Okay, thank you. I think, I think that makes sense. So, so and maybe this is

1:44:59a question to discuss, you know, over the next month or so. But, but since we aren't whole and

1:45:05are like, is the, I guess I'm having a hard time understanding if the principle is, you know,

1:45:12have we built the budget to grow? Is that, is that, you know, and it's not about, you know,

1:45:17questioning the professional positions of staff at all. I realized that this is a really hard

1:45:23thing to have done and I appreciate that. But I'm concerned that have we built a budget to grow

1:45:31and we don't have what we need to grow. And so we're, you know, the tone of this meeting has

1:45:36been already quite strained. So are we reaching towards a goal or a target that's unattainable

1:45:42and does that need, do we need to not build our, our budget around that unattainable goal at this

1:45:48time? So through you, Mr. Mayor, why don't I jump in and let our financial folks think about that

1:46:01from a dollars and cents perspective. You know, what my add on here is, you know, we have got to

1:46:07find that balance with you as well. And this is where this begins this workshop. So Councillor

1:46:11Class of Night, you know, that's a fair, fair question to ask out loud. You know, what can you

1:46:17do and what can't you do from a legislative perspective? So there is some complications

1:46:21that come from things like the house and pledge. There is some ripple to that, what won't be funded.

1:46:27And so, you know, I think the next little while we're going to have to try to, well, we will,

1:46:32not going to have to try, we will work with council on, is there scenarios, not a thousand of them,

1:46:38but is there scenarios we could get to? What if we didn't? And what does that mean in a high order?

1:46:43And you might have to be okay with a bit of discomfort around a high order, because we don't,

1:46:48as Tara mentioned or Ms. Baker mentioned, we don't have the capacities to do lots and lots of

1:46:55machinations through this. But what we do know is those big, large numbers. So what would it look

1:46:59like if we said, no, we're not going to do the 18,000 homes, which nobody wants to say that out loud.

1:47:05You know, I'm saying it out loud now, but what if we didn't? What does that mean? And there's

1:47:09complications for you as council, legislation-wise. There's complications for you and us as staff on,

1:47:16well, what does that mean in terms of money flows from the province here?

1:47:20But I think it also can be addressed. Next week, you'll see a resolution on the 17th,

1:47:25on the housing file about we have, and FCM is correct, and I, it's too bad,

1:47:31Marigold Therese left. I think he said this lots before, we need a better deal and a different

1:47:36deal. We are, we no longer should be sitting at the children's table. We belong at the adult table

1:47:42so that we can get taxes in the right way. So we're struggling with the conflation of all these issues.

1:47:48We cannot fix inflation. We cannot, you know, you heard that loud and clear in a lot of the

1:47:53construction projects. What we can fix is, well, what if we didn't do that one? But I wish it was

1:47:58just constrained to something like concrete, and then you could really turn our minds to it. Well,

1:48:02what are the projects that have got concrete in them? But inflation, as you know, has hit an awful

1:48:07lot of sectors. And so we're struggling with that. But maybe we're interested in, well,

1:48:15you know, your mechanism is what you approve or don't approve for infrastructure. And we want to

1:48:19make sure you do that with eyes wide open, especially they don't approve. So we'll have to

1:48:23walk you through what's not in this budget, which we haven't presented tonight, but what might not

1:48:28be in this budget that you can live with. And from a good conscience perspective, with all of the

1:48:33factors now, you've heard, there's a lot of, you know, I forget how you just described it, but

1:48:39there's a lot of tension in the air, not because everybody's angry. It's just this going to be a

1:48:43tough one, because things have conflated in an unusual way. And then we're stuck with things

1:48:48that are coming from the province where everybody is now paying for development. And that has changed

1:48:55the game significantly. It's unfair to municipalities. So that's soapbox, Scott. It's not, you don't

1:49:01have to take that as gospel. And we're going to try to work with you. What if you didn't fund

1:49:06all of the development areas? What does that look like? And that might be choices we can get to with

1:49:12you. If you're open enough to be able to live with a bit of high level numbers and not get it down to

1:49:18the end degree of dollars, I think we can do that together with Council. And we'll do that through

1:49:23the budget boards as well, because we'll do it in that transparent way. So it's clear on why this

1:49:27showed up or why it didn't. And then what does it look like in terms of year eight and nine and 10?

1:49:34You know, so some of us might be around for years eight, nine and 10. So we've got to be aware of

1:49:39deferrals and what that might look like to future councils. You know, depends when you show up in

1:49:44a council, sometimes it's great. And sometimes it's like, what did the previous councils do?

1:49:48And that gets lost a little bit as well. So it can't just be defer it. We've got to have a conversation

1:49:54of, well, what does that mean? What does that look like? And are we able to flatline some of these

1:49:59spikes that were shown up? So that was a bit long-winded. I'm not sure Finance wants to add

1:50:04anything to it, but I think there's work to try to do creatively with Council on this along the way.

1:50:11But I don't know that we'll be able to do every scenario for you. That would be my takeaway

1:50:15if you hear that loud and clear. But we can do a few for sure on the what if or what if not

1:50:20scenario through Madam Mayor. Thank you. Councillor Orl.

1:50:32Madam Chair, I didn't notice that you were there. First of all, I do want to thank staff for a

1:50:40rather dark prognostication. And actually DCA Stewart, you're quite correct about the attention,

1:50:49but I have to be perfectly honest. There is a fair bit of anger in me from what Bill 23 has done.

1:50:55I don't think that we can get away with stating that this is not a significant problem, both for

1:51:01councils within Ontario, but for essentially homeowners and ratepayers. Because we are

1:51:09essentially in a situation where we don't know what we're going to be able to assure people at

1:51:16this point. But we know that it's likely going to be significantly larger than last year.

1:51:22And that's a concern. So I hear you talking about we need a better deal. And I was sort of hoping

1:51:27you'd be Franklin Roosevelt, but clearly you're not. There is a question related to those 18,000

1:51:34homes that I think is really important. And it relates to what Ms Baker said. And that's the

1:51:41growth enabling projects that potentially we could have. It's not about if we don't want to build

1:51:48them. What about if we can't build them because we can't put the infrastructure in the ground?

1:51:54We have admitted that we are willing to do the 18,000, but we said very clearly that we need

1:52:00an agreement from both the province and from developers. Realistically, I don't see those 18,000

1:52:06homes being built anyway. There are far too many variables outstanding that are standing in the

1:52:12way of that kind of construction. So what about if we just can't do them because our budget doesn't

1:52:18give us the money to put that infrastructure in the ground? Through you, Madam Chair.

1:52:24Councillor Ault, yes, you should be annoyed at that or angry at that, of course. And I haven't

1:52:30got it verbatim in my head. You know that by now. But in April, I think part of that house and pledge

1:52:35that this council signed was and the province, you have to make us whole. Now, maybe hindsight on

1:52:44that, you have to make us whole before December of 2023. Maybe that, you know, maybe somehow they're

1:52:49surprised, but I can't imagine that. They know how municipalities work. They know how municipalities

1:52:54budget. It's quite clear that our budget year is at the end of December. It's not March. So that

1:53:01there's no confusion there. And you were clear if we do 18,000 homes, if we build the infrastructure,

1:53:07because we don't build the homes, you were clear that night too. You're the approval process to get

1:53:13there and you've done some things to get us there. But you need the province to pay up to, you cannot

1:53:20take out $237 million of one municipalities budget and expect it to be an easy right for that

1:53:27municipality. And I would imagine that all councils are having some sort of discussion like this in

1:53:32the next days and weeks. And they're all seeing these numbers come to fruition. So we should be

1:53:37annoyed with the province because they know this and they know better. This isn't their first year

1:53:43being involved with municipalities and how we budget. But you were clear. You have to make us whole.

1:53:48And that was a stipulation to the house and pledge you signed off on. You know, whether or not that's

1:53:54completely accepted by the province. So some legislative things that we would have to check

1:53:58on that, Councillor Ault. But it certainly was a stipulation of this council and that's the one I

1:54:02report to. So that's the one that I'll honour, you know, all the way. And we'll see what that brings.

1:54:08But they're making us whole still is we're in the dark. We don't have answers for you. I don't think

1:54:13any of staff, I'll look to Trevor and his staff. I don't think any of us have received. No, we have

1:54:18not. I'm just making sure I wasn't on the loop in the last couple of weeks. We haven't got anything

1:54:22that suggests here is a check that's coming your way to make you whole, which make the discussion

1:54:28a heck of a lot easier. They have not made it easy for this council or any other in my mind.

1:54:34Any council? I would appear that it's more like a big black hole right now. But

1:54:39with relationship to that, I do have a concern and I did raise it with staff earlier today.

1:54:44The question of making us whole, what have we heard? And perhaps it's to you, Mr. Stewart,

1:54:50what do we know about what that phrase actually means? I've heard all sorts of different statements.

1:54:56We will be made whole over 30 years of taxes that we collect as a consequence of these 18,000

1:55:03homes that are going to be built. What does it mean? Do we have any idea at all?

1:55:08Well, from a through you, Mr. Mayor, from a staff perspective, and I certainly look to the mayor,

1:55:13if he's heard anything, you know, his interactions on sort of the more political side of the ledger.

1:55:19But I haven't got anything that I could share with you that would give us the definition of

1:55:23here's what it means, here's what we've excluded, and you can get right down to our dollars and cents.

1:55:29We are clear on the 237 million. In fact, you heard Ms. Baker say

1:55:33a component of it at 9 million might actually be 15 million. You know, so we're quite comfortable

1:55:38in that range of discussion with them. But that's to make it whole. We are 237 million dollars short.

1:55:45So that says give us 237 million dollars and then we're whole. That's a very simplistic look.

1:55:51Now it might be tagged to while you have to build the houses and there's things like that that we

1:55:55have heard and seen a little bit as you have to hit the target of 1800 homes per year. But there's

1:56:02clawbacks here and other incentives for affordable housing and get all wonderful things that we all

1:56:07want. But somebody has to pay that bill. It used to be the developer from a bottom line perspective

1:56:13from the pro forma. And now it's from a property tax base. And that seems unreasonable to me.

1:56:19But if they were making us whole and they filled in the gap completely, that would be the answer I

1:56:23would give you. So the short answer is I have no answer to give you because I don't have one from

1:56:28the province. Staff to staff. I'm not sure. I would think that the answer is the same if I put

1:56:33the mayor on the spot a little bit. But I would think the answer might be the same through the mayor's

1:56:38office. Okay. So yeah, I've heard nothing. But to give a little bit of context, I mean, really,

1:56:51this issue has only been brought up twice. And I'm just trying to remember. But it was like a one

1:56:56liner in like a letter last November. After the election, all the cities were immediately starting

1:57:04and staff were starting to say this might make this might be a problem. And then there was this

1:57:09letter that came out that sort of said, Oh, we'll make you whole. It was like a one sentence thing

1:57:14that was caught. But then everyone was like, Well, what does that mean? How does it work?

1:57:19When's it going to happen? And it was constant advocacy, not only from us, but from AMO from

1:57:26OBCM, like constant and nothing. And then if you fast forward to August to the AMO conference in

1:57:36London, then there was that surprise announcement for the building homes faster. Was that what

1:57:46it's called or something? Something that the premier said about building homes faster. But it was

1:57:54that municipalities, if they met their target and or exceeded it, would get like some kind of bonus

1:58:00money. And for Guelph, that would still like nothing to shy away from. It's 14 point,

1:58:06some odd millions of dollars. Great. But that certainly doesn't help with $227 million that we

1:58:14just saw. And since that date, still nothing. In fact, still nothing in regards to the

1:58:23building homes faster thing, like the regulations around that too. So sorry, I got on my soapbox

1:58:29as well. But it's so the answer is we've heard nothing. And I know that I have and many mayors

1:58:37have stated our budgets are now our budgets are now we need to know and no response. Sorry,

1:58:48but there's there's the answer. Thank you very much. We can only hope they'll love us in the morning.

1:58:53The next question that I have relates to contingency reserves. I was wondering if you

1:58:58could just unpack unpack the the point that was made earlier, not to use them. It's my belief

1:59:07that in many respects that bill 23 is intended on bringing down the reserves of municipalities that

1:59:14have them. And I'm very concerned that what we're looking at is contingency reserves,

1:59:18essentially being used up or exhausted through bill 23. So through the mayor to Councillor Ault.

1:59:29So through the presentation, we did talk about the use of reserves, the contingency reserves,

1:59:34we tried to be really, we want to talk about those in a different capacity than our capital

1:59:40reserve funds. So the operating contingency reserves we have been using over the last two years,

1:59:46and I think completely within the right way. And we we utilize them coming out of a pandemic.

1:59:54And we've been able to phase in significant impacts over the last two years.

2:00:00and so that's there's nothing wrong with that so I do want to say that right off

2:00:04like that is really on the intended purpose of them and we are in and we were at the time

2:00:11the reserves were you know at target and they were ready for that so coming as we get into the end

2:00:19of 23 we're sitting now at about 75 percent of target starting 2024 we still have through our

2:00:29work in building the budget we're still going to recommend utilizing those contingency reserves

2:00:35in the same capacity in terms of smoothing impacts of significant kind of more spikes in the inflation

2:00:42that we talked about and that was really really the message that we wanted to deliver is that we

2:00:47still have that capacity but we are going to um it's going the the the level of contingency reserves

2:00:56is going to decline and so we'll need to watch that and we'll need to be aware of that and and as

2:01:01we go down to year end and you know if we do have a surplus at year end like those would be those

2:01:07moments where we replenish those contingency reserves and we try to keep them you know building

2:01:13back up so they are available again when we need them so that was really what I was what I was trying

2:01:18to uh what we were trying to convey in terms of the use of the reserves um the comment then to

2:01:24caution against using them further is that you know staff are going to utilize them in term

2:01:29it and recommend an approach to utilize them in the right way um and and so we would just really

2:01:35caution the further use of them just given the other pressures that we've got going on we have

2:01:41looked at the reserve portfolio as an entirety and so where we've got pressures with bill 23

2:01:47that are happening on our capital side um we we can look at the totality of all the reserves

2:01:52together to try and help us phase in those impacts until the assessment growth starts to to occur so

2:02:00so yeah it was a caution to um to not defer more uh because we are looking at that totality in

2:02:09totality and we'll be bringing that forward as part of um the the presentation thank you very much

2:02:15okay thanks Phil uh let's go to oh Michelle and then after that Erin thanks um this is might be an

2:02:24odd question but it we do not get to receive the budget until November the third the same day as

2:02:29the public does so I'm confused is there a reason that that how that we receive it on the same day

2:02:34and that council doesn't get an advanced look because I'm concerned it's going to go public I'm

2:02:38going to get questions that I'm not going to be able to answer because I think there's going to be a

2:02:42lot of people watching for this budget so uh through the mayor um historical practice is that

2:02:53we would release the budget in that that um capacity and then the the November third date is

2:03:01before the actual staff presentation on the seventh and so typically after the seventh or that that

2:03:06presentation point would really be kind of where we would recommend um and and have council more

2:03:14engaged in terms of the community and and responding to questions 100 but I hear you and

2:03:21it's something we can take away as a question from this meeting in terms of responding back

2:03:26but that historically like we are following historical practice uh in terms of the process on

2:03:32that front no thank you and I appreciate that it's just especially that's it's a it's a big thing to

2:03:37get your head wrapped around off your first budget process at any time let alone with uh a complicated

2:03:43budget like this and I was just concerned that I was you know November 3rd and 4th and 5th I was

2:03:49going to get you know a number of messages and I'm like I don't know I'm I can't answer that yet so

2:03:53just a concern of mine so if you can take that away I'd appreciate that thank you uh Erin then Dan

2:04:03thanks um so it kind of really seems like we don't have any ability to do any of the things we

2:04:09really want to do in terms of enhancing services like accelerating transit or building a lot more

2:04:15low income housing if we want to keep property taxes affordable for people who are already just

2:04:20hanging on their homes based on the bill 23 situation because I know that um Mr. Stewart said that we

2:04:30are basically we can play whack-a-mole with budget spikes but there's that giant bill 23 size spike

2:04:38right there and I'm just trying to wrap my head around what are our options

2:04:46if we want to do the services over the infrastructure which we don't have the budget to do

2:05:05so um through you Mr. Mayor I just sorry could you maybe just rephrase it a little bit um or

2:05:11just repeat the question one more time so if we want to focus on service enhancements

2:05:19instead of the infrastructure is that something that we can actually do because I know that we've

2:05:25said that we're going to do this pledge but just like uh counselors Klassen and Alts said we

2:05:33don't have the things in place that we asked for to say that we can do the pledge so what is our

2:05:40ability to just not do those pieces and focus on the things that we can actually afford to do

2:05:56so uh through you Mr. Mayor I would say that council ultimately has the authority and the

2:06:02the decision-making ability through the budget to decide which projects um get done staff will

2:06:08provide advice in terms of the risk if you don't move forward with certain infrastructure projects

2:06:13will provide advice in terms of um the impact if we didn't move forward with certain growth projects

2:06:20and so um staff have really taken the approach of trying to balance all of uh the pressures

2:06:26and to to deliver a package that balances all three so um maybe I'll just look to my my left

2:06:35to see if there's anybody else that wants to to add anything further so through you Mr. Mayor

2:06:41and to councillor directly we will go through the budget with you and you will you will have

2:06:46choices now not everything is take that out put this in the capital budget's got restrictions on

2:06:52what is in the capital budget but it does give you choices in terms of local services if I could

2:06:58put it in announcements that way versus the bigger infrastructure which is still local

2:07:03so I think our dilemma will probably be what's the unintended consequences of saying no and so that

2:07:10will be the difficulty we'll have answering it so you know for for example I I don't want to know

2:07:16I won't give you an example because I don't want you to think well that's where he's headed with it

2:07:20it's just there might be things in the budget that we might say no to or we might want to put off

2:07:25but it's tied to federal funding and now you've got the discussion to have are you willing to return

2:07:32the federal money to not do that local thing the electrification of a fleet yet that was one of

2:07:40your targets to do it as well so we're stuck here with just the way some of this provincial

2:07:45legislation has come forward and we're going to have to bring some of that to you councillor

2:07:49Caton we'll do that for sure now operating is as you know operating is different there isn't we

2:07:54can't mix and match those two things but there's certainly impacts from capital to operating and

2:08:00and then some of it is tagged to growth so you might see things like in the appropriate year

2:08:05there'll be an expansion to pick a service parks that's because of growth or that's because of

2:08:11growth that's behind us already so that's part of the issue that we have as well is that growth

2:08:17was paying for growth you know there's no point in arguing that today but then that money is to

2:08:23then establish the the new park that was to be put in place to that new or subdivision

2:08:28that might not be new anymore so that's the dilemma we've got is we're we're seeing this stuff live

2:08:34we haven't got all the answers for you i'm glad you've got lots of questions

2:08:37that will help us get answers but yeah there might be some choices that get made

2:08:42that this is a thing for us but but i want to make sure and as do all of staff that you do it with

2:08:48eyes wide open so that you don't say next spring i didn't know that and you're disappointed that we

2:08:55didn't have that answer for you so there might be times that will probably feel like we're incredibly

2:09:00slow we're not there's a bunch of folks in finance and other places that's the folks you see here the

2:09:07finance folks at the table that will be busting their tails to get answers and all of this as we go

2:09:11on choices that you might want to make as individuals but then have to come together as a council to

2:09:17maybe authorize that amendment to the budget process and we'll work with you as much as we can

2:09:23and give you as much advice as we know it today what does that mean for us

2:09:27and then come back to it at the end of the day how are you going to balance whatever the tax rate

2:09:32increases are um with also services that our customers constituents residents businesses

2:09:40are all asking for and that's the balance enact that you've gotten i think collectively i think

2:09:45you've been put in a rather difficult position um and you know that anyhow you have been put in a

2:09:53rather difficult position um and we'll work through that together so that we can give you as many

2:09:58choices as you can and then at the end of the day we do have to make some decisions and move forward

2:10:02this is a budget that we'd like to see get dealt with as we hit the the end of the year so that

2:10:10typically any of the capital work we try to get out early so that we're in front of our competition

2:10:14the other municipalities so sometimes you'll see municipalities you saw it last year with the election

2:10:19we go into the new year but it puts us behind so there's no good news in terms of well can we go a

2:10:25little longer there's always a cause and effect and we want to make sure your collective eyes are

2:10:30open on those decisions and you'll rely on each other because some of you have been through it

2:10:35more than just one cycle some of you have been through a few of these and you've certainly got

2:10:39lots of staff that will will help with that experience so Councillor Keaton the budget

2:10:44board will be a really good place especially if you've got sort of thoughts on things then we

2:10:49can do that prep work in advance of some of the budget meetings that will be helpful for us

2:10:53to help you help us help you and also your council colleagues because they shouldn't be caught flat

2:10:58footed either with what we might have originally called intentions over the years so that we can

2:11:05stay in front of us this will be a tough one to get through and the timing is tight and I keep

2:11:10coming back to we won't have all the answers because we just haven't got them from the folks

2:11:16that own them at Queen's Park thanks I want to clarify I think that you are also in a hard spot

2:11:24this is a hard budget to get together and I'm sure you know giving news like this is also not fun

2:11:32so I'm I appreciate the work that staff has put into this and I'm mainly concerned that

2:11:40there might be service cuts and or staff cuts in order to meet these targets so

2:11:46is that something that is likely so so through you Mr. Mayor there are certainly things that we

2:11:56have that is in this budget in terms of service levels that we'll want to talk to you about

2:12:02and so maybe I'll sort of leave that there there's always a labor relations piece there isn't

2:12:07anything hidden in these budgets anyway for I don't want anybody watching at home especially staff

2:12:12looking at these things but there is things that might have normally been coming through the budget

2:12:16process to you that we've said we can't do that right now that we just cannot bring that forward

2:12:21and and present it you know there's a limit to how much we can put in front fairly put in front of

2:12:27council so you'll maybe see things in there that I councillor thought I thought that was coming forward

2:12:32and it's not now it can be put in of course but it's not in and you should hear that because that

2:12:37does have service level impacts when we haven't got anything in here that's about cutting services

2:12:43so let me say that loud and clear too if that's the discussion that we have to get to we can go

2:12:48there for you know not in this venue perhaps there might be some in-camera pieces to it

2:12:53but we'd have to then contemplate what that might look like but we've gone through some of that

2:12:59exercise and what's not in and we've got to walk you through that too that'll be our chore

2:13:04I don't know if chores the right word but that'll be our exercise in the coming weeks

2:13:08that we've got to get you through that as well so that you've got a complete understanding of

2:13:12what's not arriving where has it been put that's important to you as well you know we can't just

2:13:17put this off forever where has it been put so you should hear that and I looked at DCO lead

2:13:24in case I'm missing something on that through I sure I got through to you councillor Kate and I just

2:13:29wanted to also use a bit of factual grounding for us the direction that the mayor gave to us

2:13:33I think it was in late July was formative on four principles maintain current service levels

2:13:40and minimize risk deliver service levels in accordance with legislative changes keep service

2:13:45levels aligned with the pace of growth and improve and enhance service levels from what is

2:13:49currently being delivered the budget that we are preparing and the workshop that we are surrounding

2:13:54that with this evening is based on those principles so when we enter into conversations about what

2:14:00shifts may be occurring we've not contemplated that because that wasn't the direction that we were

2:14:04given to go forward and to to prepare the material that's going to be coming forward on November

2:14:093rd I don't mean that to be an abrupt statement I just want to give context as to how we've prepared

2:14:14it it's been risk-based approach it's been very very detailed in how we can manage going forward

2:14:21and I'll just follow up on our treasurer Ms Baker's comments about the use of reserves reserves have

2:14:27been there to support what I would term we use the language one-time expenditures blips in the

2:14:32conditions as soon as there's a reliance on reserves to fund ongoing and reoccurring expenses

2:14:38that's a very dangerous slope for any municipality to get into and if we're all if we're watching

2:14:43municipal world and the amount of material that's being distributed on other pressures that other

2:14:48municipalities are facing there's a lot of awareness on those municipalities who have been

2:14:52relying on reserves that are no longer there for them to face the pressures that they're currently

2:14:57experiencing so we're very fortunate we're not in that spot but I also want to give caution that we

2:15:01want to make sure that we stay out of that spot going forward thank you thank you very much

2:15:09okay thanks Aaron did Dan and Dominique

2:15:14questions and comments or just questions

2:15:18up sure to go ahead with uh once you got the mic just if you have okay if you have some commentary

2:15:24after you're done your question just just finish off then yeah sure no problem so there's been a

2:15:28fair bit of framing of this budget amongst my council colleagues and I think that's wise and I

2:15:32think it's a good conversation to have so I'll I'll ask my question but I'm going to frame the

2:15:36budget as well if you don't mind the the question of asset management and asset management renewal

2:15:44we initiated this program I think back in 2016 2017 I think Ms. Bickers mentioned that

2:15:51and at the time we did a what was largely a desktop exercise based on the infrastructure we had

2:15:56under our care and how we had to renew it but a huge part of that program was infrastructure

2:16:06assessments so state age of state of assessments um investigatory assessments to look at the state

2:16:13of the infrastructure in in every case so every pipe every every storm drain every culvert every

2:16:20road crossing every bridge to really get a good firm understanding or assessment of the asset

2:16:26and whether or not it was on its projected life renewal path or if it could be extended

2:16:32and I guess my question is are there large themes coming out of those inspections where are we at

2:16:38in those inspections and has that resulted in or could it possibly maybe do a shift in terms of our

2:16:44asset management maybe a direction from council where we look at asset extension rather than

2:16:50simply asset renewal I can use an example in my home we just kind of furnace inspections today our

2:16:55furnace isn't working I have to replace a blower motor and a condenser bin and I have to make the

2:17:01decision do I replace those two pieces or do I replace the whole furnace and the decision is

2:17:05we're going to replace those two pieces and try and get 10 more years out of this furnace so I guess

2:17:10it's just a practical application of what those inspections have resulted in can I get an answer

2:17:16for that um so uh through the mayor I'll I'll start and uh there's a lot to impact there so I think

2:17:26that probably the you know the more detailed response to that I think we can we'll take that

2:17:32away and come back in terms of the trends and kind of the the uh you know the the extension that

2:17:39you're discussing discussing there I will say no um just to just for some background and and we did

2:17:47try to portray this in the presentation is that those condition assessments and that data and

2:17:53that understanding is growing over time and so we are maturing in that process and so things are

2:17:59changing um in terms of what we know and the condition and so we continue to focus on that

2:18:06and update what we know and we we bring that into our budget process uh every cycle so but at the

2:18:12same time um counselor I we will take that away for a more wholesome response I what I'd like to

2:18:19know is that um you know the investment that we made against an asset management was a requirement

2:18:24by the by the province to to do that being said there was a promise of reducing impacts on budget

2:18:30reducing impact long term on asset renewal and the ability to project um so we expect that culvert

2:18:37to last 25 years we go and expect it oh it's in great condition it could last another 25 years

2:18:41and be able to offset budget impacts that way I I guess I'm just looking for I'm looking for ways

2:18:46to help with the budget rather than just simply point a why we're at the stage we're at but I'm

2:18:51trying to find sort of solutions um so that's just the first thing that came off my mind as a

2:18:58potential for savings somewhere in the budget if if those condition assessments are proving

2:19:04to bear good fruit um maybe some framing though um so the budget is um staggering uh to say the least

2:19:15inflation is the primary driver bill 23 is projecting deficits for basic abilities for the

2:19:20next 10 years I understand that argument but it hasn't created a deficit yet inflation is driving

2:19:26deficits and inflation is driving big holes uh hearing reports um every week now of of people

2:19:34renewing their mortgage and not being able to qualify to remortgage their own home so they

2:19:39they took a mortgage out they're coming back to the bank after a five-year paying down their mortgage

2:19:43in the bank and saying you no longer qualify so the house is going for sale um eight percent interest

2:19:49rates on on housing and the federal government and the bank of Canada seem to be playing footsies

2:19:53with each other one is pouring gas on the inflationary fire the other one's trying to tamp out

2:19:57inflation and the only people that are getting hurt are the lower class and the middle class people

2:20:01in this country if you drive around the city there is an exorbitant amount of homes up for sale

2:20:08for this for Christmas closing um September to October traditionally not good markets for people

2:20:15selling homes and yet there is a house for sale on every street these are people who are closing

2:20:19at Christmas time because they can no longer afford to stay in their house inflation is absolutely

2:20:25a root cause of the the primary driver i'm not saying it's the only driver there's other

2:20:29disruptions in our economy but when we went through the when we went through the recession of 2008

2:20:35and the government decided they needed to spend a lot of money to stimulate the economy

2:20:39they did they spent a ton of money and coming in through 2009 and 2010 all of us who own homes

2:20:44we can all acknowledge that our homes took a hundred thousand dollar jump

2:20:48in value in a year because of inflation everyone understood when you spend when the government

2:20:53spends a ton of money inflation follows we all knew we were going to have to pay for covid

2:20:58we all knew the pain was going to come but i don't see anybody talking about getting the federal

2:21:04spending under control to control inflation at a federal level bringing value back to our dollar

2:21:09our federal government is spending 40.1 billion dollars of deficit spending this year

2:21:13every every economist understands that that is driving inflation and the bank of Canada is having

2:21:19to counterbalance that with interest rates that is having real long lasting effects not only on

2:21:25the middle class of our country but specifically on the vulnerable who are going through rent eviction

2:21:30after rent eviction after rent eviction so that being said framing this budget we have to look at

2:21:38ways to blend these costs over a long time i was promised that the multi-year budget was going to

2:21:42bring stability to our budgeting it sounds like it's going to bring stability of 10 percent a year

2:21:46for four years we have to do we can't accept that as a council we can't accept that as staff and i

2:21:53know staff are with us in partnership and trying to get this budget down but um these are this and

2:21:59other ideas around the asset management i'm not talking about cutting infrastructure funding

2:22:05i'm talking about how do we tackle the asset management plan and help to maybe take a longer

2:22:09view look at asset renewal perhaps our assets are doing better than we originally intended

2:22:15and we can take a longer gaze on it um i'll i'll ask more questions to staff over time but thanks

2:22:20for the floor okay thank you uh dominique and then linda uh thank you mayor guthrie i have a

2:22:27bunch of questions but i just want to say when i was at amoe i ended a breakfast with a cibc economist

2:22:34and this inflation is a global phenomenon and canada is actually doing better than a lot of places now

2:22:41that's neither here nor there on the inflationary pressures that we're feeling but i think it is

2:22:48i think it's worth clarifying that um our dilemma here is not born solely by what is happening at the

2:22:57federal government level so and it's exacerbated clearly by provincial government legislation

2:23:03okay i did have questions regular questions um counselor class and asked a courageous question

2:23:12what if we don't build all the housing and then we don't have to build all the infrastructure

2:23:16what's the impact i will ask you a different courageous question is there any benefit given

2:23:21the uncertainty that counselor Gibson alluded to right there's global supply chain there's war

2:23:29there's inflation there's all kinds of stuff is there any benefit of looking at a two or three year

2:23:36multi-year budget as opposed to a four so uh through the mayor so thanks for the question

2:23:49i would like to say that this multi-year budget processes had so much value in terms of us being

2:23:57able to look for full four years and be able to communicate what's coming and our pressures and

2:24:03have real conversations to be able to phase those in over time

2:24:08every year there is a confirmation process and so council will be able to revisit those decisions

2:24:16and so in my opinion a three or four year i would i believe that the right approach personally is

2:24:24that we're matching to our strategic plan and that we stay that course understanding that there's

2:24:30always moments for council in every year to revisit that through the confirmation budget

2:24:37okay thanks um similar question to one the counselor Gibson raised in terms of the timeline

2:24:46to to renew the infrastructure so we have hundred year old pipes in the ground downtown

2:24:52clearly previous councils were not you know hell bent on a 10-year asset management revitalization

2:24:58campaign um the original you know 1% over 10 years was going to get us at a sustainable

2:25:08infrastructure renewal model by 2035 given covid given the economic context can we extend that right

2:25:19so to councillor Gibson's good point we could do the park renewal at a slower pace there are

2:25:27things we could do we could do with the master plans over a longer period of time so are we trying

2:25:34to close that infrastructure gap too quickly and maybe this made sense in 2017 um but maybe the

2:25:44assumptions are different now so three mr mayor it's uh let me let me start off i i think some

2:25:51of the assumptions it's safe to say they are different now um staff have been asked as we've

2:25:57looked at this budget for the last little while to get it here is there risk here that that we could

2:26:03live could you live with more risk and you know that's such a simple question and the answer isn't

2:26:09yes or no it's but you got to do the policy work beside it so that it is very clear so you would

2:26:16never sort of risk well you know it looks like the bridge will collapse in a year so let's just

2:26:21extend it for five and i know you're not suggesting that i just want to use that example

2:26:26um to get us somewhere so we're going through all that work and that asset management work is

2:26:30starting to sort of pay some dividends of that project could be put off because we're seeing it

2:26:37is not a replacement i think as councillor Gibson raised it but it might be that there's things to

2:26:42do on that bridge that does get you an extended period of time but what does it mean if you don't

2:26:47replace the bridge and that's that's what we're going through now and we want to make sure is the

2:26:51policy setters that we bring that to you and you can see that and it could be that there is some

2:26:57maybe some projects in there and you will all have thoughts on the capital budget i'm sure

2:27:01of what projects are in there that what if it went slower what if we didn't do without undoing all of

2:27:08the work and that's a dilemma that you've got collectively you know you you saw in there 100

2:27:14renewal or re i'm not against that so i'm about to say something but i'm not against that but it

2:27:19but that is put pressure on the capital budget so has built in parks so has canopy cover so there's

2:27:25lots of wonderful things that we're trying to get to but maybe we can't do it by the years that

2:27:29have been targeted and maybe that's a discussion with council that there may be then it's not a

2:27:36put it off forever but put it off or extend it and again do that with your eyes wide open that

2:27:42you know what gifts are being left behind for future councils to come along and and operate

2:27:47under so i think we'll do some of that in this budget process that we can get at things i mean

2:27:51you obviously can't open up every master plan or or we'll be doing a multi-year budget over multi

2:27:57years and never getting to it but there might be things that we could tackle here that that we you'll

2:28:03see that we've got some things in this budget that's not in there because there's good risk

2:28:08assessment to it and i think you'd want to be comfortable as the board of governors have you

2:28:12done the risk assessment and are you comfortable with the risk assessment we give you so that you

2:28:17can say yay or nay to those things and you might have some suggestions yourself as you go through

2:28:22the budget or you've you've seen the budget some of you've seen the budget over years you'll know

2:28:26that some of that stuff in the later years maybe it does move off and certainly you would never do

2:28:32this as a council we would never present it as staff whether safety risk will never walk away

2:28:37from that so i i would want to just say that out loud and thank you for nodding with me on that

2:28:42councillor we'll always present that and that's not something that we would tackle it would just be

2:28:47is there ability to do this over three years instead of two over five years instead of two

2:28:52i think we're on for that discussion i hope you are too um and maybe to get us somewhere

2:28:58you know we'll never get i don't think we're going to make up all the ground by that but there's

2:29:03you know there's bits and pieces that can get us to maybe a budget that might feel

2:29:09if satisfactory is still a positive word we might feel satisfactory when we get through it

2:29:14but we know what we've done and that's got to be clear too or we know what we've put off

2:29:19and there'll be clear projects a couple of years from now people might be disappointed it's not in

2:29:23a couple of years but i think then you can answer all your constituents with well we had tough choices

2:29:29and this is a council that wants to make them and you've made them however you get there

2:29:36thank you uh through you marigot three just a couple more that sort of narrowed down so

2:29:40i went through the package and apparently was not getting the impacts of the last couple of slides

2:29:45so my questions are more about the front end um just with respect to uh it's called eam i think

2:29:55in the slide deck and my uh things gone to sleep there the asset management planning ep

2:30:01so there were two documents that were attached with the agenda and the last page of the the

2:30:11enterprise asset management it refers to a cms right which we had budgeted for right so

2:30:20in 2021 we set aside 1.6 million and then in 2022 it was going to be 3.6 million so

2:30:27i'm not understanding i understand that we do the asset management i understand that we led the

2:30:32province in it i get that i understand we want a new system i think to drive efficiencies but

2:30:41did we did we put in that cms cmm mss my goodness um and now we want a new thing like i'm not

2:30:51understanding what those two blocks were what the ask is and what they're going to do in terms of

2:30:59roi so i'm clearly not afraid to ask questions that make me look like i don't understand i don't

2:31:05understand this piece uh so through through the mayor so i'll start um so cmm s is the um computerized

2:31:16maintenance management system uh that is in the past budget what you would have seen it labeled as

2:31:22in terms of that project there's no change to that we're not asking for additional funding um

2:31:28we're more uh incorporating there were other budget lines related to also the jd edwards um

2:31:35procurement implementation uh and and bringing together a couple of those projects into what

2:31:41we're uh and what we've labeled or what we we um define as our ERP program or enterprise resource

2:31:51program and it's really a suite of technology and our procurement system is at its end of life

2:31:57and so that's really uh the primary one of the primary drivers of the project was was integrating

2:32:04our financial system with maximal which was going to be this which is the cmm s piece of that and so

2:32:12when we talk about ERP we're talking about many pieces including also gis there's a lot of our

2:32:20lot of our operations and asset mapping is all done through gis and so it's really the

2:32:26integration of those three systems how do we utilize them how do they integrate how do we

2:32:30leverage the data coming out of those systems in a consistent way and the data maturity and the

2:32:37common definitions of all that data so that we can utilize it so that's really the the the primary

2:32:44kind of outcome of that project it's not new it's more trying to communicate it in a way

2:32:51that would kind of more drive or support the the outcomes that the city's driving towards

2:32:59we can follow up all with more of that and we'll we'll incorporate a little bit more about in terms

2:33:03of the our ROI comments and questions when we come back great thanks and on slide 46 of your

2:33:12staff presentation it said we're moving out the Guelph Central Station upgrades and the electric

2:33:17bus charging both of those I think had ICIP funding attached to them so do we still retain that funding

2:33:25so through the mayor yes so the province has extended the number of years in which that funding

2:33:32is available for us and so all projects now have until 2033 I believe is the year and so

2:33:41yes it still is funded through that stream and part of our assessment and the work we've done

2:33:48as a team is trying to utilize that capacity in terms of number of years to still get those projects

2:33:54done but at the same time manage kind of the impact of that to our taxes over that time period

2:34:02thanks and just a last one mayor Guthrie it doesn't have to be tonight but when we look at the

2:34:08budget process there was a reference in the slide deck that talked about a biosolids facility

2:34:14and the tertiary treatment facility I'm guessing they would have been in the

2:34:18in the wastewater master plans but I haven't we haven't seen those right so when we were talking

2:34:23about operations campus like we saw what those dollars were going to be I wasn't familiar with

2:34:31these two so when you come back with the budget can we get an understanding like the blue box

2:34:36program is ending in the same time period which should create savings in solid waste so will you

2:34:45be able to come back and explain to us what the moving parts are in terms of these capital projects

2:34:50where we'll save money what are new projects and what those projects look like because the the dollar

2:34:55amounts are pretty high in this chart so through you mr. mayor I you know the simple answer at

2:35:01the stage is yes council we'll bring that back you need to have a good on you've mentioned the

2:35:06blue box moving over to the producers in 2025 so that's got some impacts and so we all have to

2:35:13be careful on maybe how we use that maybe we'll all spend it five ways but maybe there's one way

2:35:19as a council that we do it and then of course you should never be surprised about any of the biosolids

2:35:25work or the tertiary treatment and and without a tagged into so how does how does growth also

2:35:32drive that because that that is some of the factor it's existing as well you know how these these

2:35:36work it's existing as well but you know I I sit here tonight I can't remember the number I think

2:35:42it's 60 62 million I think we need to walk you through that so that you know what is that thing

2:35:49that we are going to upgrade to and have comfort with it and then have a sense of what that looks

2:35:55like in terms of the rfp in the works that will come from that but I think there's still work to

2:35:59explain the the class EA to council council Iraq I don't think that's happened but we'll bring the

2:36:07answers maybe that's a better answer and me just giving you half answers here this evening it will

2:36:12come back to you in the budget process there should be nothing in there that that you are

2:36:16uncomfortable with or don't understand that's that's our job to make sure that you feel

2:36:20comfort and you understand perhaps not the comfort part but you'll at least understand them

2:36:24on what you're being asked to approve and just a comment margaret three because I know you don't

2:36:30want to come back around um CAO steward said you know the municipalities need a new deal and we

2:36:39can't stay at the kids table just coming out of Thanksgiving I'm thinking not only are the

2:36:44municipalities at the children's table we're then stuck with the bill and asked to clean up the mess

2:36:51left behind by downloading for the last 30 years and bill 23 and it should be clear to people that

2:36:58we are the worst level of government to redistribute income because when we bring in our property

2:37:06taxes it's based on the assessed value of the home and not on people's incomes and so the other

2:37:13levels of government are the right places to redistribute income and this council needs to

2:37:19be conscious of that and the pace in which we implement our master plans thank you very much

2:37:28can I just just kind of quick look around the room other than Linda who's going to go next is there

2:37:32anybody else then we'll go to go to Leanne then me I guess okay oh okay I'm going to circle back

2:37:40to Dan I guess one more time so I'll go Linda Leanne Christine Dan me okay thank you very much

2:37:47and through the mayor um so this is my first city multi-year budget my first mayor's budget um and

2:37:54so I have a question I tried to capture it during the presentation and thank you DCAO Lee I'm used

2:38:00to guiding principles and budgets and I'm going to ask DCO DCAO Lee please to please give me those

2:38:08four principles again because I got one out of the four I wasn't writing fast enough and I guess

2:38:14my question will come in it's a takeaway perhaps for the clerks in governance and perhaps the mayor

2:38:20is I'm used to a budget process that is the first conversation with a council or board

2:38:26to build consensus around the lens that staff are building the budget so it's a little bit odd to me

2:38:32that it's kind of you know mentioned in passing for me it's always the upfront first thing that we

2:38:38all say yes we're all on board with this and perhaps that's something for the mayor and and

2:38:44governance and clerks to take away and say we all want to be on the same page and we are we are a

2:38:49council I think that's cohesive and are on the same page but for future perhaps that's a process

2:38:57so I'm just going to interrupt you councillor because I want you to restate everything you just said

2:39:01there one more time for me because I'm actually trying to listen and understand what you're trying

2:39:06to ask and I can't follow you okay so just dumb it down for the mayor so so my experience with

2:39:13with budgets is that we always start with the guiding principles of a budget so your direction

2:39:18to the staff I'm used to this is the first time in the presentation and DCO Lee brought it out of

2:39:26the presentation originally it was my question around the guiding principles I heard one two

2:39:31three four I got one maintained current service levels and I'm used to a governance that says okay

2:39:37are we all in agreement yes go away and do that and so I don't have any problem with them I don't

2:39:43I don't think but is that something for you to take back in building the budget building process

2:39:52of the guiding principles so that there is it's about consensus building for a group

2:40:07Through chair got through to Councillor Bousetil. I've just asked our city clerk to put it up on screen

2:40:14So you can see it and it is also

2:40:17Available on the link and certainly make that available to you. Thank you and so

2:40:29So just the second piece to that around the the approval the consensus process part of that

2:40:35I had two clarifying questions the first one was around on the last page the paramedic facility in the

2:40:43Asset I can't sorry page number if someone can refresh my memory. I remember the paramedic

2:40:50presentation on

2:40:52The facility replacement, but I can't remember if this means it is all including the county

2:40:59Facilities or is this is this I don't remember the dollar amount

2:41:03Through the mayor to Councillor Bousetil the figure on that slide was referencing just a single

2:41:12Paramedic facility within the city limits

2:41:17Thank you, and then the second question another clarification was during the presentation

2:41:21I heard that I think it was during Q1 there would be some kind of 2024 that there would be some kind of a community consultation on

2:41:31Passet renewal growth service enhancement strategy. I think I missed

2:41:36Part of that so I'm not clear if we are engaging the community in discussions of renewal growth

2:41:42You know service enhancements one more less the other and I think that's similar to a Councillor

2:41:48Katon's question around the community and that so if you could just clarify that for me

2:41:54Sure, so in Q1 of 2024 through the asset management plan

2:41:59update

2:42:00there's a requirement to look at level of service and

2:42:04set our

2:42:05policies in terms of council's expectation for the level of service as it as it relates to assets and

2:42:13Supporting service delivery and so that is the reference that was mentioned in the presentation as it's a requirement of the asset management

2:42:22legislation

2:42:23Thank you. And just to clarify that was Q1

2:42:28Yes, Q1 2024

2:42:31Thank you. This is just gonna pop up here just because you brought it up cancer. I

2:42:40Mean if you just as a reminder, I think it's also important to note that

2:42:50Because it's been since July just as a reminder. I didn't even put this together

2:42:58Staffed it and staff can confirm that I didn't add I didn't delete and touch it

2:43:05Signed it because I agreed with it, but they could not even pick up a pen to start the budget

2:43:12Without direction from me because that's what the legislation requires

2:43:17so

2:43:19But I I appreciate I wrote it down

2:43:22down right here guiding principles, so I I actually

2:43:28you know what we often do so we do a budget debrief and

2:43:34What we I mean if there's ever an important time for a budget debrief

2:43:37It would certainly be after this one because of all these new legislative requirements strong mayor all this other stuff

2:43:43To get everyone's feedback

2:43:46Okay, what worked what didn't work?

2:43:48You know and and maybe you know this is this is when I could go to you I could start a list for that probably now

2:43:54I could go to you first right after after this budget and then I could be one of the things as a takeaway

2:43:59Then staff could stuff could consider not just your idea

2:44:03but others as well and

2:44:06Ultimately some of it may

2:44:08Fall to me to consider

2:44:10But I'm not I'm not I'm not throwing this out. I wrote it down

2:44:13So I appreciate that but yeah wait for the budget debrief time to to come up with some ideas

2:44:19Okay, thank you for putting that up on the screen quick

2:44:24Okay, we're gonna keep going here and was just you know just being aware of time

2:44:27But everyone gets their time. I'm not trying to rush anyone just because I'm saying it now

2:44:31Everyone gets their time

2:44:32But just so everyone knows we got Leanne Christine Dan than me and if anyone has to hurry up, it's me

2:44:39So the end though you're next

2:44:42Okay, thank you

2:44:43we've had a couple of mentions of ROI and

2:44:47We've talked in our master plans about how the money that we put into some forms of infrastructure

2:44:56Actually save us money

2:44:59in the long term

2:45:02And I would imagine that much of the savings are after the four-year budget cycle

2:45:08So for example investing in urban forestry saves us money in stormwater infrastructure, which is really hard to

2:45:15Quantify within a four-year period

2:45:18Saving money, you know with councillor Gibson had a good analogy about you know replacing furnace sometimes

2:45:25Replacing the furnace costs a lot more money

2:45:28Upfront but there's energy savings and there's long-term gain

2:45:33Who is doing those calculations?

2:45:35Are you miss Baker doing those calculations? How are you damp? How are you recording the the savings?

2:45:45Beyond the four-year period or or are those just things that we're gonna worry about

2:45:50We're just gonna get through the four years and worry about the long-term savings when we do future budgets

2:46:00So through the mayor, I would say that that every

2:46:05Department leader as they're putting together their budget and they're assessing and validating the projects

2:46:12those are pieces of

2:46:15the justification that in terms of why that project is a priority and why it's made

2:46:23Why why it's being presented as a priority in the budget and so I would say in terms of how we capture that on a global level

2:46:33the work that we do annually or at least at the

2:46:39Especially right now in terms of the four year to dig deep and show and demonstrate

2:46:45Those investments and the impact to the to the operating budget is done

2:46:50as departments are building their budgets and so we've really looked internally this year at the trends and

2:46:59Unfortunately when you think about all that's been said about inflation some of those times like the impacts and the

2:47:08investment in the value and the efficiency that we've been driving comes sometimes maybe gets covered up or

2:47:14You know it doesn't maybe shine through but but it absolutely is part of that base budget review and the justification of the projects that come forward

2:47:25Thank you, I really appreciate that the team leaders are are are using that as a key part of the the matrix of prioritizing

2:47:36Counselor or work touched upon something I think is really key and that is that not only we do we need a new deal for cities in terms of housing and

2:47:44Infrastructure, but we need a new deal for cities in the form of taxation

2:47:49That property taxes a regressive form of taxation that really does not adequately reflect the services that that that

2:48:00Property owner is receiving from property from their property. I mean, you know, you put out a garbage bag

2:48:07You want it collected your roads plowed those kind of things. I

2:48:12Understandably are related to property

2:48:14But there's a lot in the budget that is not related to property at all parks recreation

2:48:21again infrastructure and

2:48:24growth

2:48:26That that aren't directly related

2:48:28So where I'm going with this question is

2:48:31when it comes to taxation and

2:48:35How we recover money one of the I mean

2:48:39There's there are other other than property tax. There's there's a few other things

2:48:44Property tax in lieu or pills or the heads and beds levy is something we've talked about that is woefully

2:48:53Inadequate we spent a lot of time talking about being made whole

2:48:58Out of the impacts of bill 23, but I'd like to ask whether or not

2:49:03we as a city

2:49:06as

2:49:07well as our colleagues at Amo as well as

2:49:10Amtco with the your your own association municipal clerk and Treasures of Ontario

2:49:17Should we be doing more? I mean, maybe this is a political question not a budget question, but

2:49:24We've got a real gap in where where our funding comes from and and payment and lieu of taxes is one of one of those big gaps

2:49:31That the amount hasn't changed the per head bed levy hasn't changed since 1985 and it's worth millions and millions of dollars

2:49:38Is there is there a role for council to be playing in in in that?

2:49:45forum

2:49:48so through through you mr. Mayor a

2:49:52Couple of things to that council Quran and I I want to I want to just jump on quickly because KPIs is an important piece that

2:49:58I'm sure miss Baker was going to mention as well

2:50:01So I want to make sure that our department has been asked about key performance indicators for the long haul

2:50:06So if you think about canopy cover, what does that mean for the long haul and that's more than then gene

2:50:11Just coming from a park's perspective. So I'm glad that got raised

2:50:15I think there's maybe a discussion to be had perhaps not this evening

2:50:21Do we need to tackle advocacy slightly differently?

2:50:24so advocacy can be seen as we send lots of letters to the province and

2:50:29That's in form of it

2:50:31But if you actually wanted to get down to but we want to get some action in some change

2:50:35Maybe there's a bit of a discussion maybe through the chairs vice chairs group meeting first and then council on could we do?

2:50:43Advocacy differently as a council because that's a great example the heads and beds

2:50:46There isn't a university town that would would argue against it should be increased

2:50:50And it's not a negative reflection of of any university, especially our first-class university the university at Guelph

2:50:57It's just reflection of I forget what year councillor you might be no

2:51:0275 or 95

2:51:04That's also ridiculous. Why hasn't that just been kept up with inflation and be current like everything else

2:51:11So I think that's a maybe a good example of what would advocacy advocacy look like how do we join with the other university?

2:51:19Cities across this province and link up through AMO or some association

2:51:24So I'm on for that discussion. I and I think we could do things slightly differently

2:51:29I'm not saying we're doing them all wrong now

2:51:31But maybe there's more than just pointing the obvious out to the province

2:51:34Maybe we have to lead them to the water so that it's clear that that would be something that is reasonable

2:51:40To change and of course we'd want to involve then a partner in that so that might be where the university

2:51:47Joins us at a table at Queens Park

2:51:50That could be the place to do that sort of thing so that we're in unison so that or you know

2:51:55Or the colleges too for that matter, but so that we're collectively they're here in the voice of team Guelph

2:52:00So I like what you're you're thinking

2:52:03I think that needs a little bit more work and there might be some clear advocacy things that pop out of this budget

2:52:09That maybe as council that's a good discussion with us

2:52:11It may be a governance table on as could we do it should we do it slightly differently and maybe look at the outcome base versus

2:52:20We've just inundated them with

2:52:22Paperwork and I'm diminishing and I don't mean to but I think maybe there's something else that you're getting at here as well

2:52:28Councillor Caron that I think we could we could work on something together. I think staff and council. Yeah, I think you

2:52:35Mr. Stewart, you you've nailed it

2:52:37And I think it's outside of the budget process

2:52:39But I just wanted to raise it as a question in the workshop because it's it's a pressure point for us

2:52:45We can take the advocacy, you know after the budget has passed

2:52:50my final question has to do with

2:52:54The staff comment about you strongly. I believe the word were very emphatic

2:53:01with

2:53:03No words parsed. I've we got it all don't use the reserves. That was very very clear

2:53:10But I not having seen the entire budget yet. Are we also adding to the reserves are like our

2:53:19Are our reserves

2:53:22Healthy do we need to be adding more and not touching as well as not touching what we have

2:53:33so

2:53:34to the Councillor we at this point are

2:53:39Looking at our reserves in totality and so

2:53:43We'll bring back more information on that

2:53:46we

2:53:48historically do not

2:53:50contribute or budget for transfers into the contingency reserves we kind of

2:53:55rely on

2:53:57one-time

2:53:58funding for those transfers that being said though

2:54:02We in the last few years have been at target and so we we didn't require those transfers

2:54:08And so those are the types of assessments and the questions that we're looking at

2:54:12Internally as we get through these last stages of the budget development

2:54:18Okay, thank you and looking forward to the the big reveal

2:54:25Thank you. Christine and then Dan

2:54:30You can mr. Mayor, so I just wanted to ask I want to go back to

2:54:35page 42 and that's the

2:54:40Making us whole again

2:54:43so

2:54:44In July when we had the DC meeting I asked her about how can we

2:54:50Structure the capital budget so that we could whether you know slow pause growth whatever

2:54:56How could we do it what levers to pull and so at the beginning of the questions this evening

2:55:02Councillor class and basically ask the same question and then so I listen to the response also from

2:55:10our CIO

2:55:13So I'm still not clear with respect to is it possible

2:55:18To see say if we

2:55:21Not paused it, but slowed the growth by half

2:55:26Could we see then?

2:55:28The budget impact and how it would decrease

2:55:32So for example when I look at this

2:55:37227 million shortfall DC shortfall and I go to page 42

2:55:43We're looking at an estimated cost over four years of over 84 mil. However, what's in the budget as

2:55:52Far as total funding base increase. It's only 33 mil

2:55:57So we're even short. We're 50 million short of the of the estimated cost

2:56:03So I guess what I'm trying to say

2:56:06I know there's other costs besides the DC shortfall if we were to slow the pace of growth

2:56:11But is it possible? Is it easy enough just to show us as far as the budget is concerned?

2:56:18If we were to only grow at say half the way

2:56:22That's my first question. So through the mayor to Councillor Billings. I think

2:56:34the best thing that we can do right now is to take that away and

2:56:38And see what's possible in terms of how we present that type of information in the budget and what options are are

2:56:46Available so short answer. Yes

2:56:50We will do our best in order to present the scenario

2:56:54Or the scenario options that council can consider

2:56:58Yeah, and I do mean high level so that we could get the thrust so again back to 42

2:57:05So my concern is even if we don't slow growth

2:57:10but we're short 50 50 million in

2:57:14In the DC shortfall and it's nice to have the hope bubble that the province will make us whole I

2:57:21Don't have that whole bubble. So then what do we do Tara? Do we do like we're attacking reserves?

2:57:30Because we're short 50 million. Are we just gonna issue debt? How do we pick up that?

2:57:37shortfall

2:57:38Because if we keep going at this pace over the next 10 years and

2:57:45Say for you know 2028 2029 and so forth to the 10 years

2:57:51Say I added the same amount is in 2024

2:57:55Which is the 2 million and the $2 for the for the rate increase and I added all up to 10 and did the cumulative total

2:58:03I'm still not at 200 million dollars

2:58:07so

2:58:09Hence that was my question about you know, can we slow the the pace of growth?

2:58:13But if we don't just in the next four years if we support these budgets

2:58:18We're short 50 million. So what if the province doesn't come through for us?

2:58:24What do we do Tara?

2:58:29so through the Bayer to Councillor Billings that that really is where the monitoring and the close monitoring of the

2:58:37Capital spending compared to the DC collections comes into play

2:58:41So these are estimates we all these estimate what the DC collections are going to be and those are

2:58:49Those are monitored very closely compared to capital spending

2:58:56They

2:58:57the comments earlier and where I feel really strongly about is that that monitoring is

2:59:03going to be critical because

2:59:06We may need to pause and we've had these these conversations as we may need to pause and we were gonna and we will be

2:59:13Have will be in close conversation with council about that if that situation occurred

2:59:20and so this is

2:59:22budgeting an uncertainty a budgeting in an environment of uncertainty means that we need to be closely in

2:59:29communication with you on the current situation as it unfolds and that will be responsive

2:59:35to the to the conditions and

2:59:38And be reporting back. And so that's that's really the best. I think response that I can provide right now. We have

2:59:46We don't want to over

2:59:49estimate the cost or we don't want to over budget for the cost because they are

2:59:56estimates just like I said the the timing of the development the type of development and all of those things factor into what that total

3:00:05cost is going to be and so we have

3:00:09Done our best to

3:00:11phase in that cost over time

3:00:14That does create risk in terms of our reserve fund capacity and that will be monitored and managed

3:00:21So then how often will you be reporting back to is just at budget times so yearly?

3:00:27Because it wouldn't take much for us to becoming like again millions and millions

3:00:32Short because of the DC shortfall. So is it just something you're thinking once a year or?

3:00:40What are you thinking?

3:00:42So through through the mayor quarterly is what I'm thinking we do quarterly variance reporting

3:00:48We are going to increase the reporting on the DC and on the capital side through those variance reports

3:00:55Right so I'm used to seeing the variance reports, but as long as this is highlighted in bold and it's pointed out to us

3:01:03I'm okay with that. I

3:01:06Have a I have another question because I'm just really not sure how this works. So this is the federal program

3:01:11It's the housing accelerator funds

3:01:13So it's been announced. So there's like, you know London and Hamilton and there's another municipality that received or are receiving funds

3:01:22And when you take a look at how many units they're saying they're going to build versus how many millions they're receiving

3:01:29from the

3:01:31from from the federal government

3:01:33it's

3:01:35It's surprising to me as as to but this is all the units

3:01:40They're going to build for this for this amount of funds. They're receiving so is the housing accelerator

3:01:46Just used for quote red tape or can it be put towards?

3:01:51the DC

3:01:53shortfall and the cost of growth and

3:01:57Where are we in Guelph at in this process with respect to?

3:02:02to these funds

3:02:08so through the mayor to councillor Billings the

3:02:12The terms around the eligibility of how we can use the funding is actually quite complex

3:02:19And and I think that it would probably be best in terms of reporting back on that separately

3:02:26We do have flexibility in terms of utilizing it on infrastructure

3:02:31but I don't

3:02:33I don't feel like I can speak to in terms of the gap in terms of DC exemptions

3:02:40So so you can't comment right now whether or not this could lower the budget for 2024

3:02:49So through you mr. Mayor, perhaps I can jump in

3:02:53so counselor I

3:02:55The the municipalities that you reference are in the first tranche

3:02:59We're not we're not in that group in so we're not even in that group of

3:03:03consideration the London's all of the ones you mentioned

3:03:07our submission goes in on Monday and

3:03:10There's 74

3:03:12Categories that they list and we have to sort of pick five that we think will best serve golf

3:03:17You know, so we we're going to go through that. I think it has an opportunity to perhaps

3:03:24Because some of it is action. It's not all sort of

3:03:28You know how you describe that it's just not all sort of paperwork and those sort of things

3:03:31There is things in there that we think are actionable

3:03:34But there also has to be partners that build these things and that council Billins

3:03:38That's the rub for us what a lot of these pieces we can make the submission and

3:03:43There's things that we are doing, you know, I think one of them is limits in exclusionary zoning

3:03:49through providing

3:03:50binding provincial

3:03:52Action so that as a right you're already there with that

3:03:55But that doesn't do anything for our budget process

3:03:58But it does something for the housing pledge and by stretch you might get funding from the province because they've said we'll fund you as

3:04:05As the homes go in so that's my way of saying I wouldn't count on it for this budget cycle

3:04:12and I think we can have more of that information on the half on

3:04:17October for October 17th because that would be that would be the right night to talk about it

3:04:22So let's make that happen so that you can at least see it and you're not just listening to me because I cannot if you said

3:04:28Well, what are the 74 75? I don't know. I just I knew the number

3:04:32But I didn't I don't know all the details and maybe we can get that in your hands and it might be part of the discussion on the

3:04:39The 17th on the housing component both both sides of the continuum and

3:04:44But I wouldn't count on it this year for the money council bill and so I think we should look at that as a gift if it comes through

3:04:51And then it's a plus. I just I would not bet that we'll hear about it

3:04:55It's taken those municipalities quite a number of months to hear back that we're in that first trance from the spring and here

3:05:02They're getting it in the fall. So if that's any indication, we might not be hearing anything until the new year

3:05:08So it doesn't mean we can't hope I just I wouldn't count on it yet

3:05:12Once we get it then that's a different discussion as well

3:05:17Okay, and then

3:05:19It's okay if you want to wait until I guess November 3rd, but I just wanted to ask

3:05:24You know the the proposed draft budget for the local boards and

3:05:29shared services

3:05:31Is it coming in?

3:05:34Is it coming in higher than our own city increase like is their increase ask

3:05:39Higher than our own city increase ask

3:05:42I'll go high level on that one because like if you don't want to disclose too much before the third I

3:05:49Understand

3:05:50Through mr. Mayor. I'm gonna go first. I'm getting a glare from our treasure

3:05:56So I think part of the they're all going to be higher

3:05:59Let me say that so that you can hear that loud and clear part of the rub that we've got right now

3:06:04Is they're dealing with their very their own boards? So some of their discussions are being verified

3:06:11Here this month some of them they haven't been approved by the board so they're hesitant to

3:06:16Submit it to us officially yet

3:06:18So what we're seeing a lot of we will have that to you by October 27th or October 22nd

3:06:24And some of them have some staff and impacts so they want to make sure their local boards whatever they may be

3:06:30Members have seen it and I've endorsed it so that when it comes here your question is you know insert the the board

3:06:38Has the board seen it the answer would be yes

3:06:40They have doesn't mean you have to love it

3:06:42It just means their board have seen it and some have got them in because they're just their time in was right for them

3:06:48So we haven't seen them all yet councillor Billings, but I am not here and anybody say that they won't be high

3:06:54They're all saying this is a tough year as we've explained to they're seeing the same

3:06:59Stressor so it wouldn't shock me to see any of them. It would shock me if they're low

3:07:04I think the law will be in a higher category than normal

3:07:09Okay, thank you

3:07:12All right, we're down to the last two here Dan you said you had an extra question and yeah, thanks

3:07:19Thanks cam the I guess what my first question just came to my head was the conversation with the outside boards

3:07:25I know that as council we vote up or down on those boards

3:07:28We don't get involved in those discussions, but I will ask in years past this council has

3:07:35Floated the idea of putting out sort of mandate letters to outside boards asking them to bring in budgets of a certain percentage

3:07:41In order to align with our budget so

3:07:45Mr. Stewart is it is what is the timing or what if if council was to entertain that idea?

3:07:51Say listen at that boards or four or five percent, please

3:07:54That's like we're trying to hold the line here is is what is the timing for issuing such a statement and does is there any policy or legislative?

3:08:03Limitations to this council doing it. I mean ultimately we are the ones who say yes or no to it on budget night

3:08:09Could I could I just ask for your opinion on that or thoughts?

3:08:13So sure three mr. Mayor my thoughts are you know, you're the board that all the boards submit to yeah, so yeah, you're the

3:08:21Supreme board yes, it's up and down you don't get involved if I said police and you don't get involved in how they police you get involved in the budget ask

3:08:30That's always your prong never give that away now when to do that. I was just looking to miss Baker around

3:08:38Do we have the the board's presenting and I don't know that we do so councillor Gibson?

3:08:42I wouldn't mind a bit of can I get back to you on that because I don't want to

3:08:47Set the Apple cart too much with some of the discussions back and forth with the various

3:08:52Boards, but I would think an outside board might say to you if you just present them with a number

3:08:58Well, what is that based on and you know then that becomes the back-and-forth challenge sure of course

3:09:04Yeah, so I think that's worth noodle in a little bit more

3:09:08They use a technical term so that we can sort of work through that to see

3:09:13Maybe there's better direction than all of them at the same time

3:09:17Because I haven't seen for example the the conservation authority there might be things in there that have come out of legislation

3:09:24That's driving and ask that you can't do anything with yet

3:09:27So it might be better to receive it and we build in time for we need you to go back and reduce this

3:09:36That's my question right there. I know it's a hard question and I'm not asking about blank statements here tonight

3:09:41I'm simply asking if if we are to give any direction to outside boards

3:09:47What is the timing of that direction and I'm hearing from you? It's after we receive the budget

3:09:53After we receive their budgets the first time or the budget and then we've got we're in that window of trying to produce or

3:10:00Trying to create better value for for the citizens

3:10:04So through you mr. Mayor, and then I'll stop

3:10:07I think the slides that we had up earlier also set direction for the budget now certainly things have evolved over the fall

3:10:14but you know to be fair to

3:10:16Insert all of those folks that were on this list of the ABC's

3:10:21You know they were following direction given so far and you know from a

3:10:26Respect component. They've they've got to present that to you to you for to you to react to it

3:10:32You may change your what were we calling them guiding principles

3:10:37But this the mayoralty direction if that happens fair enough, but it hasn't happened

3:10:42So they've submitted they are doing the work on a current pace that we've delegated to them to do

3:10:48I think let's let's let them come back in and see where they are and see where everything is collectively

3:10:54Okay question. Have you seen a double digit budget increase in any in any of these outside boards so far?

3:11:02So there I got three mr. Mayor

3:11:05No, I I but I haven't seen them all in detail so let let me not say no and then somebody presents one and then you're shocked

3:11:12I haven't seen them all I I don't know what for example. I don't know what the county of Wellington are going to present to you

3:11:19So there's a great example of I'm hearing things. I haven't seen it. I

3:11:24They've reacted to what they think they've heard from city council

3:11:27So I think you're going to get a lot of their large suggestion

3:11:31from the county of Wellington around the

3:11:33the left side of the the Contalzen continuum and

3:11:37It's then you have to say yes or no to that thing

3:11:40So that's that's not my way of tap dancing and not answering you

3:11:43I'm just saying I think they're all going to be large and there's at least one of them that I haven't seen that

3:11:49It might be in that neighborhood

3:11:51Given all of the discussion about affordable housing

3:11:54Okay, last question

3:11:56And it's on more of a trying to reduce the budget in advance of seeing the budget

3:12:01We have two major major sort of Greenfield master planning

3:12:06Developments in the works Claire Malpy GID in both instances. I'm assuming that if they were to all come in with

3:12:14draft plan or

3:12:17Submissions as staff would just be overwhelmed. I mean we're talking about hundreds of hundreds of hectares here

3:12:21So is there a policy or a legislative limitation to staff?

3:12:27Utilizing so if these developers or this consortium of developers wanted to bring along a planning department

3:12:33To support our planning department pay for it and push it help push it through all of our guidance principles up against our official plan

3:12:39our staff open to those types of I

3:12:42Don't want to call them bureaucratic or red tape reductions

3:12:45Our staff open to those types of partnerships to help accelerate these developments get them online faster and also

3:12:51free up sort of staff time and

3:12:54perhaps not have to

3:12:57Completely staff up ourselves, but utilize these resources that the development community are sometimes prepared to bring

3:13:05So three mr. Mayor, let me say if the development community could get

3:13:11If they could get organized in a way that they can bring things forward to us that would help us would make the reviews faster

3:13:17We're all on for that discussion, and I thank you for miss walkie and miss Holmes say that over time

3:13:22I haven't seen that yet

3:13:23You've got you will have decisions on the budget if they all come at once

3:13:28You can't do it all and so even if even if you had beyond the normal consultants that are used today

3:13:35Capacity is still a regulator if you do not have the capacity in the system

3:13:40It doesn't matter if we got to the approvals of yes because you can't get there because we're stuck

3:13:45So if we don't have the capacity at the plant to treat the you know

3:13:49There was a bit of a discussion tonight on on the biosolids if you can't treat it

3:13:53You can't approve the buildings anyway, so it doesn't matter if they showed up with a hundred folks here

3:13:59It's the building of the infrastructure. That's going to be the rub for us

3:14:03It might be the sequencing of the infrastructure you listed a couple of developments GID

3:14:09Claire Malpy downtown

3:14:11Maybe at some point

3:14:13Public dollars have got to be spent on one of them first

3:14:16That might be how we get there and I would say I'm always interested now GID is an interest one because it's one developer

3:14:24But if you have locations that they could upfront the infrastructure

3:14:28That's halten region is a great example of that. They do it well others do it well as well

3:14:33But halten region does it really well in terms of a front developer pays and it's not all on the low

3:14:40The the in that case the upper tier municipality to fund it all there is something to be said about that

3:14:46We would be a very interested in that it needs some thoughtfulness. We cannot just see that that sounds great

3:14:52Our teams have to go through that. That's the kind of creativity if a developer showed up with I think from staff perspective

3:15:00We should be on for review in it and presenting that to you as a council

3:15:04In a way that you could say yes to that if it was appropriate

3:15:07So councillor Gibson the answer the short answer is yes if they're creative we can be too, okay

3:15:14That's great. Thank you. Okay. I will go as fast as I can. Thank you so much everyone for for first of all the staff and

3:15:25To my colleagues for kind of going around the horseshoe here and the virtual horseshoe to

3:15:30To ask some questions

3:15:32Probably I'm hoping staff are at least hearing some good conversation around the workshop now to take away

3:15:38I mean this is good to save a couple hours of another meeting. So that's good

3:15:44My first question to you is do you and if you have to get back to us, that's fine, but in I guess it was

3:15:51When did we do our budget for this year? Was it January or February?

3:15:56January yeah, so in January you put a placeholder amount in

3:16:02For bill 23 bill 109 type of impacts more. I think waited on bill 23

3:16:08If I recall I am totally going by memory. I think it was like two million dollars. I think that was the placeholder amount

3:16:16and

3:16:17Then council did some things with that to try to soften the amount, but I think the amount stayed

3:16:24What has transpired so far this year for real life

3:16:33Consequences of that legislation

3:16:35Compared to the placeholder amount you put in the budget

3:16:42Like you put in two million did we have six million dollars in waived development charges or you put in two million and we only had

3:16:49300,000

3:16:51So to you mr. Mayor we didn't come prepared

3:16:54Yeah, that's fine. So I think it'd be best if I could take that away

3:16:57Yeah, okay gets a little bit to it

3:17:00I think councillor Billings was asking about like what is the real world on the ground compared to the

3:17:06Monitoring

3:17:07perspective that you have

3:17:09Moving forward with those development charge shortfalls and you would know alongside our develop our

3:17:16Building department. What's in the queue?

3:17:19Like we we don't know and we don't know until we actually see an application come forward

3:17:24That's deemed complete, but you might have a list of ten developments in the queue that council is not aware of yet

3:17:31and so you can you can sort of

3:17:34Project out over the year. Oh, we're gonna have we're gonna have 20 applications

3:17:39And it's going to be X amount and we're gonna actually figure it out

3:17:42So just wondering if you could look into that a little bit more and then my my actual last question is last year I

3:17:50floated

3:17:52What was called the pill?

3:17:54Provincial impacts local levy and

3:17:57and

3:17:59There was actually some uptake on it about part

3:18:03Parceling it out to show to the taxpayers exactly what the provincial impacts are actually costing people

3:18:11We actually had a delegation come to our delegation night a bunch of time

3:18:15Saying that there was some you know validity in that and I think staff

3:18:20I don't want to put words in their mouth said that there's some validity to that again last year

3:18:24Well last year we didn't or I didn't move ahead with that because I

3:18:31Said well, let's give the

3:18:33Province a little bit of time here because they're saying they're gonna make us whole well

3:18:37That's coming up to a year ago now and we're not made whole

3:18:40So is it time for us to actually parse out?

3:18:45for taxpayers to see

3:18:48What the province is actually costing and make it transparent

3:18:57So through you mr. Mayor I so let me answer from my perspective and I think I certainly think some of it is a political piece to it as well

3:19:05I have you can hear tonight. I've got some strong thoughts on what the how the province could improve

3:19:10And I think there's nothing wrong with transparency. I think it's a darn good idea if it was on our tax bill

3:19:16Now I wouldn't want to go on so far as to name it after a particular premier or any of those things

3:19:22That's the more political piece, but to have no I'm just I'm just reacting

3:19:27So I just if it was called as you said the prevent what for the pill that makes some sense

3:19:33It will allow citizens to see there isn't something has changed and there is an impact to you as a renter or a homeowner

3:19:40And however taxes get distributed this

3:19:44Distributed inside the community. So I like the idea from a transparency perspective

3:19:48Doesn't change the number, but it also allows you to explain

3:19:52This is what's changed and we're we are identifying it just like you have with the infrastructure levy just like you have with a hospital

3:20:00little levy you've done things why why is this gone up by ax amount well here's

3:20:04why there's a significant change so mr. Mayor I like it from an administrative

3:20:09perspective and then there is the relationship part that we have with the

3:20:13province so there's that fine line on how we frame it as well perhaps and maybe

3:20:18I'm overstepping there but I think that's an important piece to remember too

3:20:21but the province have made these changes that's who should be responsible and

3:20:26accountable for them and you just happen to be the flow through if I can put it

3:20:31crossly like that to collect these taxes for these changes that they've made

3:20:36okay well I mean I can talk to my colleagues about it see if there's any

3:20:42validity about it but with them but I I don't know like it's we gave them a year

3:20:50we gave them a year so you know I I feel like the relationship is is two ways

3:21:00here I'm sorry I'm not trying to argue with my CEO like I'm trying to make him

3:21:03understand but it's I know we were pretty graceful to extend some grace and

3:21:11some time it's been a year there's nothing so mr. Mayor I concur with that I

3:21:16think it is reasonable this is a long time for big changes that they have

3:21:20made and they knew they should have known what they were doing if they didn't so

3:21:25I'm gonna conclude that I think they do know what they're doing and they should

3:21:28have it resolved by now for heaven's sakes we are in a tough spot like probably

3:21:32443 other municipalities in this province so I think you're right there was lots of

3:21:37grace Kevin you know you you and others did articulate that well it's new maybe

3:21:41they will and maybe some counselors mentioned that they were never in that

3:21:45place but here we are now and you're right how much longer do we wait we're on

3:21:50that cusp of having to approve a budget with not a peep you know so you're not

3:21:55hearing it I'm not hearing it is that on the staff site or we're about to announce

3:21:59something those days seem to be gone when we get heads up from the provincial

3:22:04staff we're about to announce something that you'll like or not like to I suppose

3:22:09so mr. mayor I think it is enough time and I concur with where you're headed

3:22:15okay thank you I mean I might yeah okay I might get a long guy but a certain

3:22:23point you know like okay well then okay I guess that's just a takeaway for staff

3:22:30to consider then I would certainly like to just be very transparent about it this

3:22:35is the reality of what we're looking at and this is what's going to cost you and

3:22:38if all of a sudden they make us whole thing actually comes to fruition then

3:22:43we can take it off right but until that time then at least it's there okay well

3:22:52good luck I think that the mood in the room as we all understand it's a tough

3:22:57go so I'm wishing you all the best and so I wanted to say one thing to my

3:23:05colleagues here because look there there are a few mayors that I know in the

3:23:15province right now that are using the strong mayor powers for the budget okay

3:23:24and you know I made a commitment to not do that and so I really liked I just

3:23:36want to share with you I really liked what Andrea Horvath said in Hamilton

3:23:41just a little while ago they had their budget released and I think it was around

3:23:48four or it was some kind of a draft it was like 14. something percent and then

3:23:55you know the paper is the journalists are interviewing her and counselors you

3:23:59know what it would what are you gonna do fair questions right and they they asked

3:24:06her well are you gonna use strong mayor powers you know because it's coming in

3:24:10so high I really liked what she said and I guess I just want to share it with you

3:24:14because I I embrace brace it as well and it was and I'm paraphrasing because I

3:24:20can't quite remember but it was like you know it's better to have in our case

3:24:2513 heads in the room trying to figure something out than just one and so you

3:24:32know I would just ask that we try to pull together as a team with all our all of

3:24:40our heads together to to really try to figure out alongside staff to try to

3:24:48figure out how we can make this you know a doable affordable reasonable value

3:24:55based budget at the end of the day while being truthful about some of the

3:25:01realities that have been imposed upon us as well and so I just I just I share

3:25:06that with you because you know it's it's gonna be easy politically when I sign

3:25:14off on the budget it may very well not be a budget that even I I personally

3:25:21like but I've made a commitment to sign off on the budget under the guiding

3:25:26principles that have been established through staff because I have chosen not

3:25:32to use the strong mayor powers to to to direct a budget at some random number and

3:25:40so when it comes forward I I need I need you guys like I need all 12 of you with

3:25:46me to try our best to figure out how we're going to you know present a final

3:25:53number whatever that final number is at the end of the day I I I actually like

3:25:58really plead with you please be with me did as a team to try to figure it out so

3:26:04that you know the budget comes forward as a team trying to tackle it and not

3:26:12just one guys perspective of what it is and to recognize that you know I'm

3:26:19certainly hoping that none of you my colleagues around here you know be like

3:26:24oh well it's come in at whatever the number is and it's your budget you know

3:26:30I would certainly hope that we leave that politics stuff behind because this is a

3:26:36tough time and a tough time requires all of us to try to work together to figure

3:26:40it out so I just I lean on you I lean on all of you sincerely to try to figure it

3:26:45out okay there I wasn't that one that wasn't I didn't have that planned but

3:26:51there you go okay that's it thank you to staff again and yeah we'll just work on

3:27:01it we'll just work on it and we'll just do the best we can and thank you I guess

3:27:06I'm just looking for a motion to adjourn that would be Linda and Kathy

3:27:11anyone against that nobody that's it have a great night everyone and we'll see

3:27:18you soon bye bye