Arts and Culture Advisory Committee

0:02Oh

0:04Yeah, yeah, yeah, I rule the gossip. Yeah. Yeah, it's like Italian. I guess was he

0:11This place in New Orleans, but yeah, like in New York accent. Yeah. Yeah

0:26Ben you just so you know we are recording and I'm live

0:30Oh everyone else, but don't say anything you don't want

0:40Nobody's your nor is much

0:44I hear everything or I want to join

0:50I saw you and I saw you very briefly during the glove jazz festival my kid was running around your feet

0:58Just trying to keep dancing in like the square boy. Yeah, and stuff on in square. Oh man. I didn't know was that long

1:05Somebody keeps around

1:07It was very tight. Oh, yeah, the big three

1:1623rd

1:19Yeah, I believe that I know

1:25Yeah

1:36Or ladies are not sure who's running the tech

1:39Little bit above. Okay. I was just gonna ask when the family found me. Yeah

1:44Item comes up. Did you want to run the slides up to you? We can do it. Okay. You want. Yeah, sure

1:52Thank you

1:55They call have them on my screen too

1:59You want to do it what you're gonna come in and out to me, but when we get there

2:05Sure

2:07It is 459, but we do need one more person for corn before we can start just

2:18Yes, we got my answer

2:21Hi, Andy, can you hear us? I see you muted there if you're trying to talk

3:03Try again Andy if you can hear us. Can you let us know? Oh, there you go. Hi. How are you? Thank you for the thumbs up

3:23So you do have corn and it is five o'clock if you like it

3:32All right, I'm now calling the meeting to order at five o'clock. Yeah

3:40I just want to remind everyone that this is an open meeting meaning that the public has access and they may be able to join us virtually

3:48It's also being recorded and that recording will be accessible online after the meeting

3:53We've had regrets provided by members air fat today

3:59And yeah, so I'll move on to the indigenous territorial acknowledgement

4:04so as

4:06We gather let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in Guelph a city built over rich indigenous histories

4:14We are guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land

4:19The people who live here today and the generations to come

4:23If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation

4:26We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude

4:31This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands in a place of refuge for many peoples over time

4:38But more specifically to add a wanderer and the Haudenosaunee

4:43This land is held as the treating lands and territory with the Mississauga's of the credit first nation

4:50Well flies directly adjacent to the Haudenosaun tract and is part of a long established traditional hunting grounds for the six nations of the Grand River

4:58Many first nations and you and in Métis people who have come from across Turtle Island called Guelph home today

5:04All right, so I've not been provided with any

5:10Pcunary interests in general nature thereof

5:12I will ask if anybody would like to disclose any not seeing any so we'll move on to the approval of minutes

5:21So you've all been provided with minutes from the last meeting would anyone like to move to approve the minutes

5:27Might able to add something to it before

5:30the approval

5:31We can yeah, what did you have? I mean, I just thought about this after the meeting in regards the

5:39Public art and inclusion for the people in the city

5:42I thought that is important also maybe because I feel like this is the stage where

5:48Exclusion actually starts

5:50so if we're able to really put in minds to

5:55Reach out and go beyond the normal way we do about it like to include the people

6:01It's a lot. Okay, so let me start this so I feel like the means of communication itself

6:08Has a way of excluding people

6:11the channel

6:13excludes people

6:15so

6:16It's a lot but just having that at the back of the minds would

6:20Start something because that is really where people either

6:25See the things or they don't even see it at all

6:27So it's important that we just have the bug on minds that we want to reach out to the people

6:32That normally don't get reached out to or don't know about these things

6:36So that's just a thought I had after the meeting and I thought to add that to it

6:41So what I will say is the meeting captures the actions of the committee without no comment

6:46That's the language and we miss what to do that. So what you're talking about

6:50I think it's perfect for staff and it looks like staff captured that in terms of the minutes that were captured and what was moved and

6:56Secondated and voted on I don't think that changes with regard to what you were doing. Are you comfortable with that? Oh sure

7:02Oh, so I think what you were trying to do was capture which is great

7:06And then the formalization of the minutes we can still go with you in a second

7:11Yes, would anyone like to note for the minutes and anyone would like to second it

7:24All in favor

7:26Eddie against

7:28Okay, all right

7:34So I'll say we have a lot on the agenda for today in the first the second item that we're moving into is

7:41Authority to move it close. So the committee has the opportunity to discuss portions of this item in close

7:50So the open meeting exemption that allows the committee to have a confidential conversation is section

7:57239 to be of the municipal act

8:00Regarding personal matters about an identifiable individual including municipal or local board employees

8:06So before we have the chance to move into a confidential

8:10Conversation the committee needs the past motion to

8:18Facilitate that we will get that motion up on the screen here

8:23And

8:25It will also give you the opportunity questions before we go into close

8:30It's there is any certification that is required

8:37So there's that motion it reads that the arts and culture advisory committee now hold a meeting that is close to the public pursuant to

8:44Section 239 to be the municipal act we're getting personal matters about an identifiable individual including this board

8:51So if there is any question happy to help facilitate that otherwise we can take the vote and proceed

9:03I have a question. I was wondering maybe if you could just clarify what exactly the purpose of going into close versus having this in

9:11Yeah, so the municipal act allows for open meeting exemptions to discuss

9:18very specific items within a closed session the one that we're contemplating today is is

9:24239 to be which is regarding personal matters about identifiable individuals including

9:29Municipal and local board employees. So it allows the committee and staff to have a conversation

9:36Strictly related to that. So I know on the agenda. It's update on the 2025 artists and resident program

9:43We are not going in there to have a policy discussion. We are not going in there to discuss

9:48Items related to the program or how the program is activated or any of those types of things

9:53We're strictly going in there to discuss what is allowed under the open meeting exception

10:00I can say as well that there there is just a received information

10:04That will take place. The the committee is not allowed to provide direction enclosed. So that won't happen

10:19So the motion that keeps

10:23Some information confidential

10:25This is the motion that allows the committee to have a confidential conversation

10:29Then when you have that confidential conversation, you are bound by the code of conduct

10:35Which keeps that information

10:39So right now you're deciding whether or not you want to have a confidential conversation

10:44And that is up to the committee through majority

10:50So wait, sorry, would this mean that we're having like a confidential conversation about

10:56The things that have went down with the artists and residents and we're closing that and making that confidential

11:01over discussion. We are only we are only having a

11:06conversation about the specific items related to the closed meeting or the open meeting exemption, sorry

11:13so

11:14there could be our

11:16staff have identified that there is

11:19information related to an identifiable person that they wish to share and that

11:25Can facilitate a closed conversation

11:28or confidential conversation

11:30It is not the entirety of the program or the entirety of

11:37The artists and residents in the program the policies anything like that

11:41And what you are doing right now is deciding whether or not you want to have that conversation

11:58Yes, we would ask for a mover and a seconder and then a vote

12:02And as long as you had a majority we could then facilitate that conversation

12:09Anyone like to move?

12:11In a second

12:13So is everybody in favor?

12:19Is anyone against?

12:22No, okay, so I think we're all in favor

12:24So then we will be moving to closed session and that means I think people online have to join a separate meeting like

12:30Yeah, so to help facilitate this

12:33with a hybrid meeting style

12:35Annie and Hitty you group provided a separate meeting link

12:39So we would ask that you leave this meeting which is open to the public during the entirety of our closed session

12:45Connect to that additional meeting link and our physical presence in this room will move to another room

12:50Just so it is private in that sense as well. Okay

12:54So andy katie we'll see you in the other room. But if you have any issues just send us an email and we'll connect with you

12:58Okay

13:00Great. Thank you. Julia is just outside. I saw her on my way in. Oh, she's well. She's on phone

13:06Okay, she's told me to say that she's coming

13:08Yeah, I don't know on this end. Is she able to get in? Yeah, I was able to get in

13:13Okay, yeah

1:05:13Okay, andy katie we see online just a thumbs up that you can hear us again. Make sure you're connected. Okay

1:05:19Thank you. Appreciate it

1:05:23Oh, you want to know Steve?

1:05:28Okay, so we're now moving on to item three which is items for discussion

1:05:33The first item we have is update on the 2025 artisan residence program

1:05:38Um, so we'll get Tammy and to speak to this item

1:05:42Yep. Okay. So, uh, my report was included in the meeting package. Um, just to summarize the

1:05:522025 artisan residence

1:05:55uh initiative, uh, which uh was entered into with

1:05:59Open minds open hearts in great anticipation

1:06:03Unfortunately, uh, did not unfold. Um in

1:06:08The way that uh that we had hoped and and that the artist had hoped there was a disagreement in the end about their final

1:06:15cumulative

1:06:17initiative and

1:06:19And so regretfully

1:06:22um, we were unable to

1:06:26To conclude that residency in the positive way

1:06:30um, we are

1:06:32I'm happy to answer any questions about the report that was included and we are

1:06:38Intent on learning this experience and applying those learnings as we move forward with future

1:06:44Residencies and artist engagements and so I invite your questions and look forward to your

1:06:52recommendations and advice

1:06:56Maybe try to help us. Okay the conversation one of the staff recommendations is that

1:07:01uh, the committee provide

1:07:03Comments for staff consideration regarding policy and practice updates for future artists engagement

1:07:09Um, so while we have this discussion if you have any of those comments, we will be capturing them

1:07:14We'll show them up on screen to make sure we captured everything but just be aware

1:07:17That's part of what is being requested from you. So if you have anything direct feel free to to share

1:07:27They don't start

1:07:30They're been in all that right it's the time for that right okay. Um

1:07:35still in the middle of the

1:07:37I feel like there is a need for

1:07:40the museum the city to

1:07:44reach a gap between the city

1:07:47And the real grasp of people

1:07:50Because I feel if this is established a lot of things like

1:07:56Things like this

1:07:58Probably wouldn't happen the way it happened

1:08:01And I just feel that has been missing and that also impacts on what the city gives the people and what the city people are actually really looking for

1:08:12So, um, I always liken this to a lot of language

1:08:17When someone wants you to love her a certain way I like it

1:08:21She likes nice words

1:08:24I'm trying to buy colognes right them trying to love you my way

1:08:28Or it's interpreted differently

1:08:30So I feel that's something that I see play out here a lot of times

1:08:35When the city is trying to include people

1:08:40Trying to connect with the people and they are very disconnected with how that's interpreted

1:08:46of people

1:08:48So that rage I think it's really important that

1:08:51The city works towards bridging that gap

1:08:55That's a thought

1:08:56If I can just throw out what I have at once

1:09:00And the other one is a lot of question

1:09:05um

1:09:07There is a perception already

1:09:09Like you saw in the comments

1:09:13I have

1:09:14Buildings do like how I feel about certain things and I'm always with a grass root people on the streets with all the people

1:09:21You know, and I feel like this has happened and it's up there

1:09:27Are we trying to

1:09:31I know it's hard. It's are we trying to communicate to the people are we really open to people really charming in from this community?

1:09:40With regards to things like this because they all have positions

1:09:44And I say that if the city has 25%

1:09:48population of visible minority

1:09:51And a lot of people feel the way they feel it's important

1:09:54It's just addressed at some point or their place is where those things are talked about

1:09:59To help at least straighten out things a little bit

1:10:03But far

1:10:13Another hard copy of

1:10:16my

1:10:17Oh

1:10:19This report

1:10:28I was going to say I guess

1:10:31Is it just like recommendation recommendation? I guess I have a recommendation that I don't

1:10:37I don't know that there needs to be a policy that says we can't obstruct public artworks as long as they're not maybe

1:10:44Damage necessarily like obviously the city's not going to

1:10:49Allow someone to destroy a public artwork, but I don't really understand the policy behind

1:10:55Not being able to cover at least temporarily

1:10:58Or if there's a way to create a more relaxed policy around something like that or like an application process. I mean again

1:11:05Oh policy

1:11:07disruptions is never gonna work, but

1:11:10In especially in this case like to me that was the thing that struck me is like really

1:11:16Really like three hours versus a week. I don't really know

1:11:19I understand the whole like setting precedent thing, but if it's clear that there's like a damage aspect

1:11:26versus like a covering aspect

1:11:29I don't because you could do that for like so many different reasons that have nothing to do

1:11:35With politics also to cut to want to cover a piece of public art for aesthetic purposes or what having so that I don't know

1:11:43That's me

1:11:45There could be an adjustment to that

1:11:47policy

1:11:49And they set in the precedent

1:11:51And usually the the art the callouts are asking for a drill ideas and interventions like even

1:12:00you know a covering of a statue

1:12:03You know we cover it again, you know with sort of fallout of the

1:12:07Yeah

1:12:09So I think for someone to

1:12:11Yeah, I guess I'm now thinking that the purpose behind it is that it prevents the public access to the piece

1:12:17And if it's like a public art then it should be owned

1:12:20But but if it's like something that's

1:12:22I don't know a sheet

1:12:25They could disrupt that policy

1:12:28I don't know to me. I don't that's my

1:12:31feeling

1:12:32Yeah, in my experience with this kind of stuff

1:12:35um

1:12:37the

1:12:40There's a lot of anger on the other side

1:12:42Like I just feel like in this room, right? We're all much more open minded like

1:12:46I typically people in the arts and in these industries just are

1:12:50We maybe I shouldn't generalize so much but embraced diversity at Korean inclusion makes the culture richer

1:12:56It makes you feel like there's just a lot of that. I think

1:12:59In people who've come from a liberal arts background

1:13:02when you try to

1:13:05Work

1:13:07In other rooms with other people

1:13:10The temperature is very very different in my experience and the

1:13:15It's

1:13:16It's ugly, right? So what we might think here's

1:13:19Then you go there and you're like, oh my god

1:13:21So I think there needs to be personally a lot of strategy behind those things

1:13:26And maybe that stuff that we discuss when we choose an artist or work with an artist or

1:13:30What's going to work in the city at this time in the temperature that it is now because we've got what's happening down in the U.S

1:13:36And there's a lot of people that like it like I I've encountered that in different circles just talking and getting the pulse on things so

1:13:43What I find upsetting about this is

1:13:47It feeds right into what they want

1:13:49It feeds right into what the haters want a black artist and residents to do right look

1:13:55They're extremist right so sometimes we just have to be very careful about the effect it will have

1:14:00Because I think we all want the same

1:14:02I think I want to see diversity equity inclusion

1:14:06I would like to see certain colonial structures soften and it'll be the best thing for society. However

1:14:11This is the society with a lot of really strong opinions on either side so

1:14:17Um, it's anyway, I'm going on

1:14:19But I do think that those are the things that come into my mind when we try to pick an artist or residence when we think of what the

1:14:24best steps forward are

1:14:26There needs to be some

1:14:28Agreed upon strategy for the best outcome

1:14:31Rather than assuming it's going to be great and then you deal with this absolute bloody mess that takes you 10 steps

1:14:36That's what I've encountered. I don't we're on open sessions. So I don't want to share but

1:14:44I've encountered a lot of horrible backlash when you try to do something that seems really good

1:14:49And then I realized wow on another planet compared to some other people in that

1:14:53On that road and it's just it's shocking. So

1:14:56Andy you have your hand up

1:15:01Yeah, just talking about the covering of public art

1:15:07Um, if I think that it needs to be more of a discussion of like

1:15:14If a bunch of people are calling for this work of art to be covered

1:15:18I feel like it is very important that we consider that more

1:15:23Or taking down the piece or reassessing it as a part of public art that we have on display that is

1:15:30glorifying colonization

1:15:32Um, genocide really awful things that have happened on this land

1:15:37Um, if we're claiming to care about that

1:15:39um as a city, I think taking down those structures is

1:15:43vital

1:15:44um, and I think

1:15:46artists

1:15:47That are calling to have these covered should be listened to in that

1:15:52um

1:15:57I also

1:15:59Well, I think what's interesting is that because I understand the john galt bus like that was created by an artist who recently passed

1:16:08I think

1:16:09I don't know. I was googling him. Maybe he's still alive

1:16:13But like he's an artist in his own right like and I know that there was a lot of work in terms of

1:16:18um

1:16:19Of that and like there was a committee behind

1:16:22That artwork being created and then where it was displayed and I know

1:16:29I know there's a lot of discussion around colonization. I will say like john galt. I think they

1:16:34I

1:16:35One of the profs said well if he was saying he's a different kind of uh, colonizer. He had a different approach

1:16:42um

1:16:44But I it just seems that

1:16:47I don't know the word but like that

1:16:50There was concerned about

1:16:51The this sign being taken out but not as much concerned about another person's piece of artwork being covered

1:16:59And I think we should consider that and I do I have been recently I had a discussion with an individual who

1:17:06Works a lot with artists. She has an art gallery and she knows that there's a lot of concerns around

1:17:13Around their their art being disturbed in some way. So I think like that's what I've been really kind of thinking about

1:17:20um

1:17:21Considering in the last few weeks since we've gotten this information is what is the process in place?

1:17:27like is there a goal so like what is the process in place when it comes to

1:17:31um

1:17:32When it comes to interfering with the artwork

1:17:36What where is the line around artistic

1:17:40expressions and freedom and when it's within the public domain when does the city have the authority to

1:17:49um

1:17:50disturb for any reason without

1:17:53Getting consent from the artists

1:17:56I I think that needs to be clarified because I can understand

1:18:00That I know that there was a text message that was sent but that it was still

1:18:04And I'm not speaking on whether or not it should or should not have gone out that way

1:18:08But the fact that there wasn't like I I think I would have liked to be told if I was the artist that

1:18:14This is what's going to happen if we don't get back from like now time like this

1:18:19It since it was improved this version it's going to go out this version

1:18:24Um, I just think maybe like font figuring out what what are the hard lines could be helpful for in the future

1:18:31Or any time that any public art has to be moved for whatever reason if it's

1:18:37Constructed or for any other future artists in residency that there's a clear

1:18:42understanding of when it

1:18:44It's required and when there is consent that is needed and when the city can step in

1:18:50for specific

1:18:52you know circumstances

1:18:55It's a good point

1:18:57There's comparison there

1:19:00So it's probably I was like

1:19:04Um

1:19:07And he has your hand up him

1:19:14I feel like if there's like a sculpture that the city owns

1:19:19that

1:19:20Is a glorifying sculpture of someone that committed mass acts of violence are advocated for that. Um

1:19:27Was a colonizer which is obviously extremely violent

1:19:30Um destructive that if we have a piece that idolizes and glorifies that person in the way that it is composed and presented

1:19:38and bronze large scale

1:19:41um

1:19:42Then that is displaying a hate symbol directly. Um

1:19:46So in that way I would think that that's not within the city's

1:19:56What it wants to represent

1:19:59Anyway, yeah

1:20:01If I could just answer to that I think

1:20:05The second you you bring up the removal

1:20:08You're going to invite a lot of opposition and you're going to have people telling you you're also erasing history

1:20:14So I will say

1:20:16In my experience

1:20:18The the proper solution is maybe you leave the thing in place, but you write something underneath that explains

1:20:28The history how we feel about it today

1:20:30So it's it's something we learn from perhaps because the second you decide to absolutely remove it

1:20:36you're going to get an enormous amount of controversy about that

1:20:39And you know, I know people who are indigenous who don't agree with doing that either

1:20:44They're like, I that's not the solution. So who needs to decide that that's going to be a massive debate

1:20:50Um

1:20:51Some things I wish yeah, I wish they could be removed some things. I think we need to learn from I think we need to leave them there

1:20:56But address them

1:20:58So that if some young child comes across it doesn't read this heroic

1:21:02Thing about this individual reads the complexity of that individual what they did and and that the relationship we have with them today

1:21:09Is complex because of that history. I think we

1:21:11Personally get a lot more out of that. I don't know if that's on

1:21:15Point with what we need to be discussing today. We're talking about public art removal and all kinds of things, but um

1:21:21I think it's a really big topic. It's come up in a lot of rooms around these discussions and

1:21:26strong feelings on either side. So for me, the the middle is

1:21:31Explain it because

1:21:33You don't want to disappear it completely because then it's just that's that's what trump's doing

1:21:37He's removing all the pictures of slaves out of the museum and I don't think that's a good solution

1:21:42Right, it could be the tool of an oppressor as well to remove history

1:21:45So we got to be careful how much of it we get rid of

1:21:50And I can see that that really bothered you. So I don't know

1:21:54Yeah, I have a hard time controlling my facial expressions. Um, that's okay, but

1:21:59I think that this is a very different thing. There's a distinct visual language that

1:22:04a plaque

1:22:06saying information

1:22:08would not

1:22:09Take away from the strong visual language of a glorified

1:22:14sculpture of a colonizer

1:22:16That is the direct hate symbol, right?

1:22:18So taking that out of the public

1:22:22Is a huge statement of something that we claim that we are advocates for and we advocate for as a city and we stand by

1:22:29um

1:22:31Decolonization we just like gave like a land acknowledgement, right? And then we have this on display

1:22:37It's contradictory and it's not

1:22:39okay

1:22:40um, and I think that it's

1:22:45Not the same as what trump is doing of removing

1:22:49a variety of opinions if this is a matter of

1:22:53Glorifying a colonizer and taking that out of the public that is very different that

1:23:00We're advocating for the removal of hate

1:23:03Not the removal of information the information is still there

1:23:07um, but the glorification of this person is something that can like is so contradictory to everything that we claim to

1:23:14um advocate for even in this meeting we're like ready to like raise to the challenge and be challenged

1:23:20um and reach the occasion

1:23:22But I feel like

1:23:23That is

1:23:25An essential part of that um claim

1:23:30Yeah, I think it's important. I don't know how essential that I think that there are a lot of objectives that are massive

1:23:36that we all want to get to

1:23:37And that can somehow personally my opinion it can become a block that people just sit argue about forever and ever ever

1:23:43And avoid the work that you really want to get to which is

1:23:46The changing of how we live in society the improvement of things disgusting really difficult topics we get get stuck on the statues for a really long time

1:23:52so

1:23:53um, I've just seen that happen all the time and it becomes this thing people obsessively fight over

1:23:59I don't really care about the head of john galt. I don't even notice it. I don't even know where the heck it is in the city

1:24:05If I came across it, I and I read a bunch of stuff about it might be like, all right good. Whatever like I he's not my hero and and

1:24:13But I you know, that's my thought on that. I want to get past it to the other stuff and not just

1:24:20stuck on it

1:24:21Anyway, that's my thought

1:24:23Um, Katie I see your hand up

1:24:28um, yeah, I just on the same topic um

1:24:33the

1:24:36What is sort of the policy um around

1:24:41um, sort of moving public art, I imagine there's there's public art that's being stored and sometimes it's brought up

1:24:48out and sometimes it's put it's put back away

1:24:53um

1:24:54And I'm just curious in the context of this particular situation

1:24:59Why there was resistance to

1:25:03In effect, I mean you can't take the statue away very easily for the for the duration of this this

1:25:11art piece

1:25:13being there and so um

1:25:16what

1:25:17What was the problem with covering it up

1:25:21for the duration of of this installation

1:25:25um, so I can you say that the public art policy is silent on

1:25:30Whether or not people can cover or disrupt

1:25:34pieces in our public art collection and and katie just to clarify

1:25:39We do have a number of

1:25:42sculptures sculptures in our collection that are fixed and you'll be hearing about one of them

1:25:46That's later in the meeting that has been removed for some instruction

1:25:50We do also have pieces of what has been known as public art, but um

1:25:56We think it's more like a civic art collection. And so we are going to be working through

1:26:02Better defining the art that the city holds in its collection

1:26:07the

1:26:08the reason that it was determined that we could not have the

1:26:15Jongal bus covered for the duration is because we do have precedent that people have

1:26:22um in one case

1:26:25went ahead and

1:26:27uh

1:26:28interfered with public art and installed things in it was the family fountain

1:26:33um and installed things in and around the fountain

1:26:36um, we told them they couldn't do that

1:26:39um, and since we have a practice now when people are renting city spaces close

1:26:45Improximity to the city's public art

1:26:47um that they need to report that

1:26:50And the activities that they're doing around public art. So we as a team can make sure that the artwork is safe

1:26:56So there was a precedent that we didn't allow

1:26:59public art to be interfered with

1:27:01And so when it'd be fair in this case to allow it

1:27:06We are happy if you give the direction to go back to the public art policy

1:27:12um and give some consideration to

1:27:15um what that looks like and maybe look at some best practices in other communities

1:27:20In terms of safeguarding our public art collection what we do allow or not

1:27:25I would expect that it would there would be different scenarios for different pieces of public art

1:27:32But just know that any policy that we put in place needs to apply to everyone. So I think you know in this case around this table

1:27:41We are all

1:27:43We um respect the message that was being um sent in this case

1:27:49But then the policy will need to apply to people who want to cover it

1:27:54Sometimes for reasons that we don't agree or cover a particular public art for reasons that we don't

1:28:00Want so so just know that when we're talking about policy we need to consider

1:28:06Does that answer your question, Kate?

1:28:08It does it does but um

1:28:12Uh an artist in residence sanctioned by the city is different from

1:28:18um a citizen who decides that they want don't want the

1:28:23family

1:28:24statue naked or something so

1:28:27exactly

1:28:29the direction

1:28:31The direction katie was that we wanted allow anybody from the public to do it

1:28:36So we shouldn't be doing it with a city sanctioned event

1:28:40We shouldn't be setting an example that we want to allow

1:28:45Others in the community to do

1:28:48You always think and that's a good point

1:28:52Okay, thank you

1:28:55My recommendation is maybe to think about the or to do some of that research on the best practices of other

1:29:01how other municipalities

1:29:04policies because I think the entire point of public art is for the public to interact with it and obviously there are

1:29:10Some ways that's gonna happen regardless

1:29:13like in the example you stated and

1:29:17Sure, it as

1:29:20Many points as well

1:29:21It could go in a very horrible way in place that nobody in this room would be comfortable with

1:29:26And there's a safety element to that no violence element to that as well

1:29:30But I'm I think in the context of this specific project

1:29:36like there's a

1:29:38Desire to respect the attention behind

1:29:42Covering the statue and it was going to be covered for a short amount of time anyways, so it's already kind of

1:29:50Against the precedent

1:29:51So maybe it's like I understand you don't want to set a bad example

1:29:54But maybe if there's an application process or something that's open to anybody so that I could be like

1:30:00I want to do this and then there could be a policy around it. That's like if it's if it promotes hatred racism

1:30:06Systems of violence etc then your application won't be approved and then if they're gonna do it. They're gonna do it anyway

1:30:13like if that could

1:30:16And again, I think maybe the recommendation that is not an actual recommendation right now, but a recommendation to

1:30:22explore that more

1:30:25Yes, um

1:30:26I'm thinking of a piece of art that the

1:30:29City recently

1:30:31Absorbed into its collection and I was the this um soapbox. Yeah. Yeah

1:30:37Was it the soapbox? No, it was something else

1:30:39Oh, it was another one. It was outside. It was where are you sleeping tight? Oh, yes. Yeah, which started off as sort of like a

1:30:48ad hoc improvised a intervention

1:30:51Um, was it uh, it was attached to the floor. Is that right? It was sort of yeah, so I mean technically

1:30:59Isn't that sort of like damage to

1:31:01City property and then if the city then absorbs that then into its collection and then

1:31:07Decides that it's worthy of something could asset a present look like I'm just gonna

1:31:13be a quote unquote

1:31:15Bandol

1:31:17Which will lead me to having a piece of artwork in

1:31:20a

1:31:22Look at look look at that by look look that looked after by the city that hasn't happened

1:31:27No, that doesn't happen

1:31:28But that also went through a process right like the public art advisory committee had to

1:31:32Approve the application to for the city to absorb that piece. Yeah, but I had to drill something in the middle first

1:31:39Yeah, but I mean if someone else like did it. Yeah

1:31:43Their point still being made by doing the piece it just then that would be disproven again later

1:31:48Yeah, but then it's very sort of I mean obviously

1:31:54But I mean like that that's the weeds of it. I think you mentioned before was like at what point is that so

1:32:00A what level is the decision being made on the appropriate and that's all

1:32:04anything

1:32:06um

1:32:07Yeah, and I think part of I mean

1:32:09This discussion there's a really nice quote about the public iron is supposed to make or break public space

1:32:15and I forget who says it but like

1:32:17Having contradictory

1:32:19Messages so part of

1:32:21Being a public like a public is contradictory. It's like a group of people who

1:32:26might not agree that things who might have

1:32:29Disbrided but are somehow able to negotiate

1:32:33You know or less smooth running of everyday life and I think

1:32:40Yeah, that's all it so the rest of the senses like this is sort of yeah

1:32:45I'm passing on it including the sort of negative disruption that I was

1:32:50Yeah

1:32:53Okay, just um briefly. I think I support the

1:32:57investigation of a policy that looks at in what conditions we were shrouded art

1:33:03Um in the context of other art

1:33:06But I would support when we look at this like artists in residence. I think for

1:33:13Next years, I think it would be really good to have if there are clear

1:33:18rules about the presentation spaces

1:33:21That we maybe just have that like

1:33:24A really front and center so that that becomes clear

1:33:28And I do think we need to like reiterate that we do want

1:33:33To as the public are the arts and culture group and or the artists in residence

1:33:42Work within support artists to present

1:33:46challenging material

1:33:49and that if there's as we review the

1:33:52The contract maybe as well as the call

1:33:56Maybe we can be a little more. Um, we can add some more language around like how would we do that?

1:34:02And then when we're presenting challenging work

1:34:05Occasionally there will be challenges

1:34:08And this one I think one of the things. Um, so I think we just want to be like really there on that

1:34:14um, and then to the point around the the john galt

1:34:18I do think in the context of this isn't related to public

1:34:22um artists in residence

1:34:24But I do think I've heard enough

1:34:27But I think I want us to look at the relevance of john galt's in current context

1:34:33And so that feels like it's separate from this

1:34:37And in a way, maybe the role of echoes of liberation was to ask that question

1:34:43um, so I

1:34:44That might need to go on to like a future work plan that we can do because I know we

1:34:50when we uh,

1:34:51Majudicated the art um alongside the side of the building

1:34:57That has the the deer and all the things. Um

1:35:01I would have had an entirely different opinion of that

1:35:06If we were doing that today

1:35:08So I think I want us to like look through the collection with that new context

1:35:14But that's this feels like this got like put into another uh theme that we

1:35:20Should also look at as well. I also want to raise

1:35:27Um

1:35:28In terms of the artists in residency program and maybe something because I know we had described from some

1:35:33discussions about

1:35:35Whether or not having a list of what is or is not appropriate

1:35:38I think that that kind of like works as into a box because then somebody's or it's going to have to be

1:35:42Updating and like looking over that list and making sure that it just seems like a lot of work. That's not really

1:35:48Necessary

1:35:49But maybe it's like and I think that this was probably done

1:35:52But like discussions on what is or is not appropriate

1:35:55In different spaces whether it's this city hall space or if it's park in terms of the language that's going to be

1:36:02You know, so I think there was probably those discussions, but

1:36:06I think just ensuring that everybody is on the same page of like what is the purpose of having a display page in the city hall where

1:36:13You have to adhere to a certain

1:36:17Code of conduct

1:36:19Because it is a space that's accessible for everyone versus a park where yes, it is accessible for everyone

1:36:24but there's not that same expectation around the type of language that would be included in

1:36:30In a piece and I think maybe something around in terms of

1:36:35When you're building out the residency

1:36:38What are the touch points to ensure that everybody is on the same page and it does sound like that was done?

1:36:43But I felt there's more that could have been done on that end

1:36:47I also just want to say about the john gulf bus

1:36:53Just because I did google this and I it was um, it was for the

1:36:59the

1:37:00What was it by centennial of his birth?

1:37:04um

1:37:04And there was a committee that was formed and there was a jury to chose the sculptor and he did pass away in 2021

1:37:12um, and he sounds like he was a renowned uh,

1:37:15Canadian sculptor and it is quite a beautiful bus

1:37:18I will say that and I do know I do think there's a book about john gulf that's coming out in a few years and

1:37:23I have heard a lot about how his approach to how wealth was founded was a little bit different than certain other

1:37:30cities that were founded but I would urge everybody to read up on jill stelter's opinion

1:37:36john gulf it's uh, I think he has a really um robust understanding of that man

1:37:44I'll try to quick because I know we're like it's taking a long time. Um

1:37:49similar to what you're saying about the context of places and kind of

1:37:53Something that tammy said earlier about context

1:37:56Maybe there's something there about like in within the specifics of the artist in residence program when art is presented through that

1:38:04term like

1:38:05Maybe there's an expectation of context

1:38:09within the certain

1:38:10areas so like

1:38:12a museum being a place

1:38:15where

1:38:15Context and this is also like this protects people in

1:38:19Flutter of ways right whether it's protecting a child from a word

1:38:23or protecting someone from

1:38:26really troubling content that might

1:38:29Make them extremely uncomfortable like when you enter a space like a museum

1:38:34You're preparing for that often and a space like sitting hall. You're not always preparing for that

1:38:40and obviously

1:38:41I don't know how to make that short anyways. I understand maybe there's something there in the policy writing of like

1:38:47context

1:38:49Being made available around any artwork that's presented by the artist in residence program and

1:38:56What those expectations are depending on

1:38:58where it is

1:39:01So I guess it's like it's written in lots of different places, but maybe specifically to add it to the artist in residence

1:39:09I don't think I walk into any public space involved. We don't expect to hear profane language

1:39:14so like that I mean like

1:39:17It is the idea of like

1:39:19yeah expectation and

1:39:21But then I mean a piece of work can use those expectations

1:39:26In a different way. Yeah, and I should draw attention to them

1:39:29Yeah, because there's a difference between like profanity being used against an individual versus a concept that is like

1:39:37universally

1:39:38Well, but should be universally

1:39:40renounced

1:39:42And yeah, I'm just thinking in the context of like so many museums you go into and there will be content warnings about whatever's happening

1:39:48We have one at the video

1:39:51um

1:39:52presentation of the jury art show video pieces right now like

1:39:55Tackle some really intense racial themes. And so there's the content warning about that in the space and

1:40:02I don't think you it would be irresponsible of us to just

1:40:06display that work and not have

1:40:08context there for people who are coming into it and not expecting to be confronted with some of the

1:40:15content

1:40:19I can just again see that as a

1:40:21You know, sometimes that the shock of something is the

1:40:24In a place is the context right and the content. That's what I mean. It's like

1:40:28inseparable and

1:40:30Yeah, it's a tricky thing to navigate which I don't

1:40:34I don't envy. Yeah

1:40:36Yeah

1:40:37And I knew the staff and that job but yeah

1:40:41Yeah, we worry so much about all of it. I just think of like museums in Europe like

1:40:45Community warnings all over the place. I mean, there's all kinds of stuff you encounter, right?

1:40:50You're gonna see things that show racism and misogyny in in older museums

1:40:55um

1:40:56So I guess my my background in it with my kids was always like, yeah, that's what art is go

1:41:01You're gonna be confronted by stuff

1:41:03You're gonna see nude women's boobs when they were like five and it was like that's okay. That's what art is

1:41:07It's this space of like

1:41:09Everything opens up

1:41:11Um, so yes for certain issues absolutely the context one each right like for certain sensitive topics

1:41:16But for most of it, I think people

1:41:19Come at your own risk to some extent, right like a little bit

1:41:22Yeah, I mean, yeah, just I was gonna ask after like

1:41:27Your grouping connection if you had any but you just confirmed it

1:41:30But yeah, Greek my parents are from reason so I've gone back and forth there my whole life. Yeah, right cause I

1:41:36Usually can feel

1:41:38the vibes across the continent

1:41:40when I do people

1:41:42So I sat here and I've always felt like there is that level of connection with Africans and how

1:41:50Oldly Europeans are the things like that

1:41:53So I feel like a lot of these things we're talking about here also doesn't really matter to

1:42:00Africans

1:42:02John

1:42:03he doesn't matter

1:42:05honestly

1:42:06and I would like to speak for

1:42:08it you're already not all

1:42:10so

1:42:12I've thought about it. Yeah, so whatever we're talking about here just as much as possible

1:42:19Just hold on the back of your mind that

1:42:22Africans don't care

1:42:25Sorry, I don't really care so

1:42:30You will war for them

1:42:32You know what I that's I think we're you know, people say Canadians are really polite. We apologize a lot

1:42:37That's it. That there's a truth to that. It's this worry of offending

1:42:42And it can be off the charts a little bit a little bit off the charts and I think at some point it makes us fragile

1:42:49um and

1:42:52Anyway, I appreciate your comment

1:42:54Because I've always that's what I've always loved about it. I was always like let me spray

1:42:59Like free to anything free to offend why I love comment comedians like thank god someone just

1:43:05You just put it out there and if you don't like it, you don't like right?

1:43:08I don't know that's a very common opinion of me

1:43:10And I think it makes me sound like a real old freaking outdated person in certain circles

1:43:14But I do think

1:43:16For some of us that's what's been attractive about our it's like freedom

1:43:20Um and when we start to take that away just a little like a little bit of time out of good intention

1:43:25It can be a little bit suffocating to the original

1:43:29thing

1:43:31I'm a dinosaur. I'm sorry. I'm a good dinosaur. It's lovely

1:43:35A little bit so I think we feel a really great conversation. I'm seeing why there's a lot of um

1:43:41recommendations and also

1:43:44Seeing the time too if there's anything else people want to add if I think maybe we can move to

1:43:49um the motion. Yeah, so what I'll do is I'll get something up on screen and um

1:43:55I can appreciate that. I've just tried to capture what is about an hours worth of conversation

1:43:59Yeah, it's in words. So if I've gotten it wrong, please tell me, okay?

1:44:03Then I'm I do not want to drive what the committee wants to pass. Okay, but

1:44:08What I have up here is the first clause is just that we received the staff reports of the report that was in the agenda

1:44:13That you've all had access to you received that

1:44:16clause two was one of the staff recommendations around receiving comments related to

1:44:22um policies and practices

1:44:24For future artist engagement. So really strictly related to the artist and residency program

1:44:29So I put a couple things in there if it's not correct if the language is incorrect

1:44:34If I've used the wrong words, please highlight that for me and then clause three

1:44:38I think we started to hear comments about the public art policy how it interacts with the artist and residency program

1:44:44And how that public art is just kind of managed in general. So I've tried to capture that in a different

1:44:50Uh clause here because I think that is separate from the artist and residency program information that we're looking for feedback

1:44:57Uh, happy to read it out if you guys didn't like otherwise happy to to help facilitate some edits or anything like that

1:45:04See a hand. Yes. Thanks. Eric. Can I just ask for maybe a possible edit bullet number one?

1:45:09Or says citizens through the policy supporting the program could say through

1:45:14um

1:45:17reviewing and possibly changing the policy supporting the program

1:45:21Because sometimes I think we're going to come up against the policy

1:45:25be like, oh

1:45:27Maybe that policy needs to change

1:45:30So your edit is consider how the city can bridge the gap between artisans artists artists and citizens through

1:45:38a reviewing reviewing and possibly

1:45:42recommending changes to

1:45:44policies supporting

1:45:46How's reviewing and updating? There you go

1:45:50The policy is supporting the program that works for me. Okay

1:45:56Do you mean in consultation with artists and citizens? It might it might just mean in consultation with looking at the policy

1:46:04It might just happen as part of the artist's residence

1:46:07Like there's a policy and then there's a bit of a question, but there isn't like always an entire

1:46:14Any consultation around like policy number like one of six

1:46:19See what I would say to that is it's usually better to be less descriptive in those scenarios because then it allows staff

1:46:25Who are hearing these comments to say do we have to do a whole review?

1:46:29Do we need to engage with these people? I can't be really narrow, right?

1:46:32So we if we don't do that it gives staff some of this

1:46:35Yes, a movement there if you want to be prescriptive you can

1:46:39But if you're looking to have a more generalized approach and give them latitude

1:46:42I think someone like this helps

1:46:45Yeah, and if the one came from my idea

1:46:49I'm feeling more also like

1:46:52ridging the gap between

1:46:54the city and the citizens

1:46:57right

1:46:58So, yeah, it's more a totally different point. Yeah. Yeah

1:47:08To that point I did write that like city bridging versus artists bridging because like I feel like that as well as the program

1:47:15Is an opportunity for the city to

1:47:18engage in an artist

1:47:20To maybe do that work on behalf of the city, but it feels like

1:47:24there is work for the city to be doing

1:47:27behind the

1:47:28System as doing program before any artist is actually engaged. Is that what you mean?

1:47:33Um, I would say that that okay with the background to that thought will come from

1:47:41I feel behind

1:47:43all that has happened

1:47:45There is this I've always had there is the part where

1:47:51A lot of things can be avoided if the city

1:47:55And that in this scenario will be

1:47:58The people that work in the city

1:48:02Have a closer relationship with the people in the community

1:48:06So that now is another example if I don't work with me

1:48:11Right, you would currently have no people that know me enough to be like

1:48:15Hey, stay with the guy

1:48:19Just if that makes sense

1:48:21So I feel like there is a need for and this impacts on lots of areas

1:48:26So that's just that connection. So there's not a detached kind of relationship way just throwing stuff

1:48:33I think it's okay. They're like

1:48:36Fuck

1:48:37If that makes sense

1:48:39that's

1:48:40You help me sorry clarifying while I try and catch your point

1:48:43I hear consider how the city can develop on consultation methods to support. Is it the artist? Is it the citizens? Is it?

1:48:53I'm african. I'll remind you guys. Okay. So I feel like culturally we don't speak directly to I'm learning a lot of stuff

1:49:00So I'll try to be as direct as possible

1:49:02just a relationship in between

1:49:05You people

1:49:07and the people of wealth

1:49:11Which means the world wealth will include people from different backgrounds

1:49:15Just the young if that's simple or directly not

1:49:20You know

1:49:25Yeah, I caught you messing with it

1:49:35Yeah

1:49:39What's wrong with using the words build relationships?

1:49:43Yeah, consider how the city can build relationships

1:49:47And then what I'm hearing is staff and and the public. Yeah, correct. So I think that is the new two line

1:50:02And I think that goes right into number three

1:50:05consider how we are allowing participation. I think that

1:50:09Yeah, sure allowing may not be the right word

1:50:12Inviting yeah, we are engaging maybe and we then combine two and three

1:50:18To do something like this. Yeah, yeah

1:50:33So consider how the city can build relationships between staff and members of the public and invite

1:50:38Participations

1:50:42Yeah, true

1:50:44I don't know if it's I've mentioned it in the closed session

1:50:48but maybe should we mention here the idea of

1:50:51Like for example, when you're saying this now about going into engaging in community members if we're picking

1:50:56People from particular community groups to be artists or residents with the hope that they're representing the community

1:51:01A check within the community about how that community feels is probably a good idea

1:51:05So that idea of some sort of like a reference check looking back at their reputation within the community name and saying they represent

1:51:13is important, I think

1:51:36Um as it does for a job application that the artists themselves would provide. Yeah

1:51:42Now what that looks like, I don't know. I don't know maybe like that would be the easiest thing for city, right?

1:51:47To be able to go. Okay, your reference checks. Um, I guess

1:51:51I'm not sure exactly how it looks. I I get that it's really prickly and tricky because who do you even show to?

1:51:57Yeah, um, I don't know

1:51:59um

1:52:00Yeah, the artists I think absolutely would have to provide my who they'd like to

1:52:05But like give like me what's a past residency they did or like, you know

1:52:09People who have worked with them in the same way that we're going to be engaging with them

1:52:13So that's we know that that was a positive experience where they really

1:52:16What if you back to they get from the community here, you know, all that kind of stuff, I think would be important

1:52:20so behind that in as

1:52:220.7 here consider a reference checking method for artists who apply to participate in the artist and residents

1:52:32And I think that would carry forward to the police

1:52:35Um thing as well, right? Like it's really any community engaged

1:52:40Art we really should have reference checking. Can I make a suggestion of

1:52:47Um where we say in a positive way?

1:52:50Um, like not everything is going to be a positive thing that's presented

1:52:56So maybe we can say thoughtful and gendered in for or just even thoughtful

1:53:04I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but are you suggesting that we cross track?

1:53:09um

1:53:10references of artists with the police to

1:53:12No, no, no

1:53:15Yeah, zero

1:53:19But for the facility like we call for public art at the police station we will

1:53:24I understand. Yeah, okay

1:53:28Uh, that would have me panicking too

1:53:34Sorry, just yeah, I used to

1:53:36Bring up the point again. I mean

1:53:38Iced and to you know, they have people that they work with who shared their politics who share their

1:53:43fits of working

1:53:44a reference checks might it's not going to be a

1:53:48No perfect method of doing that, but you know, yeah

1:53:51I'll help but yeah, let's me gonna say this because there's nothing that's 100% right

1:53:56It might but at least just a little bit here and there just so that you don't feel overwhelmed with how

1:54:01What do I have to do go everywhere? Just to leave me here

1:54:05even googling like I mean just

1:54:07Doing a bit of research on the person right like we're about to have them 10 grand for a project maybe a little bit of thwarting

1:54:14Um, which I can you know, I haven't done that. I don't know if you guys have I just read the proposal

1:54:18I have never gone on and seen what else is out there about these people, but

1:54:22Yeah, they've been bit more embedding

1:54:24So what what this does here the way you've written it is allow staff to consider multiple methods or

1:54:29Absences that they want to do and what you're providing is great feedback for them

1:54:33I think to understand where you're expecting it and allow them to work on a finalization of that

1:54:40Are there any other changes edits additions?

1:54:44Deletions to this before we move forward

1:54:51I'm not seeing chair. If you want to help so take a vote on that

1:54:55um, so we're moving to approve

1:54:58Is it this yeah, so we just need a mover or seconder on the the

1:55:03We're going to do it all together. So one two and three with all the sub points that we provide it

1:55:07We're going to move and second that entire thing that's on the screen. Okay, so the recommendation is that the arts and culture advisory committee

1:55:14Received staff report. Do I have a mover for them? Sorry cherry. I'm gonna jump in. It's not just number one

1:55:20It's everything on the screen. Okay, everyone doing all at once

1:55:24That's people for unless anyone wants it read. I don't think we need to read it. Just move her second or four. Okay, or yet

1:55:31I'll just move it

1:55:34Do we have a seconder?

1:55:36Okay, um all in favor

1:55:40Yep

1:55:43Great, great. Thank you everyone. That's a great discussion. Um, so now we're moving on to

1:55:50Second item for discussion and that's the update on the public art and st. George's square and again, I believe that's Tammy

1:55:57That's speaking to that. I'm sorry. Maybe Tammy if I jump in here just in terms of timing

1:56:03Normally we try and hold two hour meetings. We are almost at that time

1:56:07Item 3.3 has a timeline to it

1:56:10If you would like to participate in that and provide comment or feedback as a

1:56:16Committee, we should address that item now. Tammy. I don't know what item 3.2 could be bumped if our discussion ran well

1:56:23And we didn't weren't able to finalize it

1:56:25My recommendation would be chair of a switch them do 3.3 first

1:56:29I'll facilitate any of that feedback because there won't be an opportunity before budget is finalized if you don't mind

1:56:35Yeah, that makes sense

1:56:37Um, yes, we'll move to the third item. Um, and that has to do with the mayor's

1:56:452026 draft budget

1:56:47Um, so I asked for this to be added to the agenda because I was made aware last week

1:56:53That the draft budget

1:56:56Came out and it had some notable reductions that would impact the operations for culture and recreation for the city

1:57:04And tammy can speak more to the specifics of that

1:57:06But basically what I'd go up from it is that it would mean reductions for museum and cultural

1:57:12Programming so that is market square and civic events programming

1:57:16Um, it can impact movies in the park the doors open

1:57:20culture day programs as well as the artists and residency

1:57:24And I think it's important for us to discuss because there we do have the the option to delegate

1:57:32The budget will happen before the next time that we meet

1:57:36So if we do want to if this committee decides that it does want to speak to the proposed budget

1:57:43Regarding public art and culture then we'd have to kind of make that decision and determination

1:57:49Now we kind of we can decide we can just discuss it here

1:57:53But we can also elect someone to speak

1:57:56To delegate to a council

1:57:58Or we can also apparently pass motion

1:58:02that will

1:58:05Reflect the the discussion that we have here today and that council is made aware of

1:58:10But I think I'll let tammy speak a bit more to the specifics of the budget

1:58:15Okay, that's this is more her

1:58:19I think I think you described it. Wow

1:58:21So just so everybody knows within the mayor's draft budget and it is a draft budget

1:58:26The impact of reductions to museums and cultures total that 205 thousand dollars

1:58:33There are two notes on it a hundred and forty thousand dollar reduction in museum and culture programming

1:58:39And then a sixty five thousand dollar reduction

1:58:42In market square and civic events programming and that very specifically outlines including the removal of

1:58:50Movies in the park the city's doors open and culture days programming and the artist residents programming

1:58:57So 205 thousand dollars our budget sits across a couple of lines. There's museums of culture. There's culturally

1:59:05Development and market square and civic events

1:59:08So that 205 thousand dollars represents a 15 percent reduction in kind of that total overall budget

1:59:17Yeah, so we say no

1:59:20Yeah, is there any way that this committee can just be like

1:59:24What exactly did you think about when you passed the culture plan?

1:59:28Can we give can we

1:59:31Recommend that we do the culture plan that we approved or no, we're not allowed to

1:59:36Maybe the whole thing that's I can help you with the committee's options

1:59:41So uh

1:59:43I wanted to really well the committee has kind of two or three options here

1:59:48The first one would similar to what we've just done

1:59:51We'll pass a recommendation with comments regarding the budget

1:59:55Those recommendations will be captured or those comments are will be captured in the minutes

1:59:58Those minutes will then be forwarded to counsel through a weekly information items

2:00:02That's how we normally forward that and they'll have access to the comments that you've provided

2:00:07The other option is that the committee can appoint one member

2:00:11To go and speak on behalf of the committee at budget delegation night, which is november 18th

2:00:17And provide comments from the committee the committee could

2:00:22In that motion

2:00:23Provide specific comments that they want addressed or just give general delegated authority for that member to go and speak on behalf of the committee

2:00:31So kind of multiple ways to to manage it

2:00:34I recognize that you all probably have feelings about it, but to help facilitate

2:00:40You know the next step forward you should kind of focus on what we want to do and then we can we can draft together

2:00:45The specifics of what that is

2:00:54I think earlier to some

2:00:57Yeah, not a big fan of the proposed budget are people interested in

2:01:02um

2:01:05electing someone to speak to counsel to delegate on this

2:01:10Or do we just want to have a discussion is anyone interested in delegating to

2:01:16I guess I

2:01:19Yeah, oh my god, I'm sorry. I'm really not going to use any language

2:01:25Be emotional labor of this

2:01:29But on artists and citizens is absolutely inappropriate

2:01:35It really is

2:01:37Having to like so I think it is really inappropriate

2:01:41We went and delegated and so I have a couple technical questions

2:01:45Maybe we went and delegated last year for there was like these amendments of cutting the 200th celebration and

2:01:55um

2:01:56Cutting out the culture plan

2:01:58But then at the end of the day they ended up adding more funds back in

2:02:03And now we're just taking different different plentifuls out, right?

2:02:08And to clarify the wealth 200 budget is intact in the budget

2:02:14That really as well as the capital fund

2:02:17So yeah, so it's almost like

2:02:20We we gave that

2:02:22But now we're just going to take something else which is isn't an equivalent value

2:02:26But take something else that's actually pretty substantial like the artists and residents piece is one of our only

2:02:33community engagement programs

2:02:35that this

2:02:37Corporation has related to arts and culture

2:02:41I'm not okay with I know it's like 10 grand plus like all the stuff

2:02:45But not okay with that just going on

2:02:49Unusaid so someone has to do it. It's not going to be me. I'm going to wait in the middle of

2:02:55November and

2:02:59And that's it. I think someone

2:03:01yeah

2:03:03Maybe I can help with the the process piece because I think you had a question on that

2:03:07What we have in front of us today is the mayor's 2026 draft budget. This is not a finalized budget

2:03:13The mayor releases a draft budget prior to releasing. What is their budget?

2:03:19It allows for comments feedback from the public the mayor will then release. What is their budget?

2:03:25There is strong mayor powers which are in effect in the city of guelph which requires that council deal with that budget within 30 days

2:03:33Julie what you were noting was

2:03:36In that process there is what we call an amendment night where council has the ability to amend the budget through motion

2:03:43We saw that some of those items were added back in during that amendment period

2:03:48There is also a veto period where the mayor could veto those amendments that never happened last year

2:03:53So they were ultimately adopted. So we're in the infancy stages of the budget now

2:03:58again

2:03:59Looking for somebody to to delegate at that november 18th of the budget delegation night

2:04:04Following that would be an additional amendment night many changes that happened after that. So

2:04:09Just a little bit of like a process

2:04:11I asked the two people that delegated last time so

2:04:14of

2:04:15Could you tell me so that we spoke didn't people ask you questions? Did you

2:04:21I don't think we got asked any questions yet. You have five minutes

2:04:25Yeah, right here. You just redo that like redo it replace some things like you have a five minute solid man time

2:04:34They council can at their request ask you questions. So otherwise they just take it as well

2:04:39Because you're with you try to do I won't I don't know how much I will say but I'll be I can be happy to know

2:04:46Just the press of the

2:04:48Yeah, and I'll send you this one. Yeah, we decided that that's what we wanted

2:04:52You don't have to do the same one but cutting my fingers. There's core the core theme is the same

2:04:58It's a tiny drop of money to be pulled from

2:05:03program that actually impacts

2:05:06Humans like citizens. So what I will say on on that piece here is you can appoint

2:05:16Members to support or to speak

2:05:20You can do it without direct

2:05:24consideration for specific items and just allow them the opportunity to create

2:05:28What is there's their speech or if you wanted specifics including we could include that in a motion and then you would take that

2:05:34Essentially direction to include in whatever you decide to say

2:05:43It sounds like we have two people where will you

2:05:46Need to make

2:05:48Okay, we'll support you

2:05:51Yeah

2:05:53And we want

2:05:55Are the people have any comments that they we would like to see included in the delegation or

2:06:02I think there are some cases been running for my political week

2:06:07And is this quote that says that culture eats strategy very fast

2:06:12I feel very strongly that around here people don't really really

2:06:20sorry

2:06:22understand

2:06:23the part that it plays

2:06:26so

2:06:27I attended climate

2:06:29Change climate action events somewhere and go out some time ago

2:06:33And it's the same thing that culture pulls everything together. So it's it's just about drums and

2:06:42Public arts is beyond that it's about the people. It's about whatever policy program you want to drive in the city

2:06:52Is hinge on the culture

2:06:54The people can mobilize through culture. So whatever it is. So if you feel like

2:07:00People coming together as a waste of time everything honestly

2:07:06Is built on culture

2:07:08So if you feel you want to defund it

2:07:10Then you must well just defund every other thing

2:07:13What is so powerful what people don't really seem to understand the part that it plays in the bigger picture

2:07:20I just thought that I'll drop that out

2:07:23And it's very very true

2:07:24But how do we make them understand because most of the time they just think it's pretty pictures, right? Like art is just pretty beautiful things

2:07:31um

2:07:33I would love for you to go and say exactly that. You can't say they're a little bit

2:07:36I think it's really really important. I but I but I do think that

2:07:41Yeah, it's an upheld that was a good one to understand that how you get them to understand and appreciate that in many places around the world

2:07:47Culture that's why they silence artists, right? Because they say they speak truth to power

2:07:52They do these things

2:07:53But I don't know in guaj that is really what if you ask the average citizen?

2:07:57What is art what is art that that I don't know that they would think that

2:08:00Was to be very honest when I met Tammy that was like two years ago

2:08:05And at the time I asked the same question

2:08:08And I'm like and when I asked the question

2:08:11It was not because I was trying to be funny

2:08:14But I wanted to hear the people and I found that it took me some years to even really understand

2:08:21more of the Canadian culture

2:08:23but a lot of people even the Canadians because it plays into

2:08:28Canadian identity

2:08:29It plays into

2:08:31integration of immigrants everything the tension everywhere right now is all connected to this

2:08:37So if we don't know how this contributes to the bigger picture

2:08:42We'll continue to think it's just about the drums the jmb drums. It's beyond that right?

2:08:48Well, like you did say a lot of people don't really

2:08:52Get it. No, they don't really get it. They really don't get it

2:08:56So we have to make them get it that

2:08:59One angle that could maybe help

2:09:03To kind of get people to get it is tourism

2:09:05I know that there are a lot of discussions around getting tourism up and running and art does play a big role at

2:09:11Like doors open is a big tourism piece. I do

2:09:16Volunteer and like most the people that come are from out of town. They're not really locals

2:09:20There are people visiting and they get to see these amazing buildings

2:09:24And I think everybody who lives here should go to it too. But like it's hard to get to every building but like

2:09:30To be like we want to engage with tourism, but we're just going to cut this program

2:09:34That actually can really support tourism and the fact that

2:09:38They like that you had to delegate last year

2:09:41For the 200 and then they were like, okay, we'll put it back in but we're going to cut all of these other things

2:09:46That will support the 200 and just kind of make it

2:09:50I think it will be it'll have detriment to the the work that

2:09:56The city and that the individuals are doing to make the

2:10:00Byzantine a big

2:10:02celebration

2:10:05I

2:10:07Just in response. I think I

2:10:09Agreed that that's one strategy to try and get people to listen

2:10:13But as a person who lives in Guelph and has lived here for for almost 15 years now working in the arts

2:10:20I'm so sick of having to say

2:10:22That I want more people to come here and enjoy a city that I can't even enjoy

2:10:26Because living here is getting

2:10:28Visible because there's nothing to do and nobody goes outside anymore

2:10:33And I run a venue where we're we're doing

2:10:36Accessible programming like seven days a week and we get three people to come because there's no

2:10:41concept of like supporting a vibrant downtown in the in the context of of

2:10:47Like consuming culture and engage because I don't like the term consuming culture but

2:10:52Engaging with culture and participating in culture and like I I know that's not your point

2:10:56I know your point is to say like this is the strategy because this is an economic

2:11:01an economically focused

2:11:04place that we're speaking to but

2:11:06It's really frustrating that we have to keep saying like

2:11:09Tourism and economic development when it's just like do you want people to live in your city and be here at all?

2:11:17I own a house here and I'm considering leaving

2:11:23Anyways, sorry, that's not the right today you I hope

2:11:26We think so I think

2:11:29If you're taking the money out of the arts and all the things we care about to make this a little bit city

2:11:33Where are they just with buying putting in instead?

2:11:36If they're cutting from us, what are they prioritizing so please?

2:11:39I think it's just this is to keep the tax increase to 2.5. I think everybody's getting I everyone's getting

2:11:47Like it's we're between a rock and a hard place like and I think that it's hard to forget

2:11:54It's hard to remember to take our emotions down a bit, but I think as a as an advisory committee

2:11:59We have a responsibility to

2:12:02make a scrimp don't worry

2:12:10I think emotions do play a part but yeah, Julia. Yeah, just a process thing

2:12:14I think I'm very happy if there was a co-writing and people wanted to

2:12:18Yeah, all right. Yeah, this group could co-write. I think the big one of the big narratives is

2:12:23We don't need to get into to delegating. I mean to writing the delegation right now

2:12:27But the big narrative is we approved last year the culture plan in 2030 like we approved it with funding

2:12:34And now this is actually defunding an an actual

2:12:38A plan

2:12:40So I think there's like that is like a core piece that we we need kind of written in Benji

2:12:46I love everything you said about what this means as far as culture in community

2:12:52Um, and it's not okay

2:12:55It's not okay

2:12:55And one of the strategies might be tying it into the mental health of our freaking youth

2:13:00Which when there isn't arts when there is when there is this stuff for them to do like music

2:13:04You can go see visual arts and have conversations. They just do this

2:13:08They just get the same crap and there's a mental health epidemic among young kids and teenagers

2:13:14The arts needs to be our arguments need to get tied into that that greater picture

2:13:18Yes, they'll always want to talk about money and tourism and all those things

2:13:21But it's the health of the citizens that are defects

2:13:24And I don't know how you get into the head of those kinds of people and not kind of meeting but

2:13:30I think we need to be less nice and a little bit more firm and maybe just build connections with those other

2:13:36those other people

2:13:38Um regarding the culture plan because I don't know if I misread this

2:13:42But was there something about them delaying it?

2:13:45Oh, yeah

2:13:46So I wonder if that and I'm just raising it as something maybe to

2:13:50Look out when you're drafting just to make sure that like because I think also like

2:13:54that like

2:13:56Just because we like I think everything is being delayed because they are trying to keep tax as well

2:14:02I am all for that in many ways, but

2:14:06It does it has negative impact here and now and we're just delaying the Navajo

2:14:11Which is that potentially we will have to you have to anyways. I just wanted to raise that so you're aware

2:14:16Just because I I'm not very reading that

2:14:20No, yeah, you're right. I know I think it will be in the minutes of our first meeting together

2:14:27When I did the report on the update on the culture plan, you need that

2:14:33Some questions just of the delay. What does that mean tanny?

2:14:37um that when they projected

2:14:41When we projected the culture plan it was culture plan 2030

2:14:45and now when we look at

2:14:47The amount of investment needed into the culture plan it was delayed out. I think 15

2:14:54years

2:14:55Okay, so I need to get that in the

2:14:582045 and and that was prior to this draft budget

2:15:03Oh, right. So it's 2060 now

2:15:06Well, I'm just being it was 2037 at the meeting that we yeah, is that was when Nathan was like

2:15:12Broke down because he was like you just to wait 13 years. We know now though that it's a minimum 2045

2:15:20If there was 15 now adding that case. Yes. Okay. So yes, let's can we just do a delegation?

2:15:27Yeah, maybe and then it's

2:15:30We've got a lot of um a google doc that people think

2:15:34So I'm gonna I'm gonna

2:15:36advise

2:15:37Okay

2:15:38That that is inappropriate. Oh

2:15:40Because you cannot have more than five of you working on a piece of

2:15:45Work that this committee should be doing together

2:15:48In not in a public link. So if you guys get together and it it ends up being more than five

2:15:55Online or not. Yes, that's your form

2:15:59And then your meeting over okay, so that's why I'm suggesting let's capture as much now

2:16:03But as well give delegated authority to those who are going to represent you

2:16:07I think you've heard comments and you can take it from there, but I don't want you to run into a situation where

2:16:13You're in trouble for meeting

2:16:16Without, you know, public process. So we could have the three like three people

2:16:21Yeah, right and do that alligates. Yeah

2:16:24Or whoever wants to volunteer

2:16:26So if you allow me the opportunity here

2:16:30I think we've indicated

2:16:33Scarlett and Zeven want to delegate

2:16:36Uh, Julie, I think what I've heard from

2:16:39You don't want me to drop it

2:16:41What I think I've heard is that you would be involved in the

2:16:46Development of that delegation. Is that correct?

2:16:50I'm happy to if it's needed

2:16:52And that's for you to decide. Yeah

2:16:55I think if there's anyone else who wants to co-write with Scarlett and Steve you will. Yeah

2:17:02Okay, so maybe maybe the best way to do this is

2:17:06We'll appoint the members who are going to speak. I think that's appropriate because you'll you'll want to

2:17:11Uh, when you're addressing council notify them that you're not only there for yourselves, but you're there on behalf of the committee. Okay?

2:17:18If you utilize people within the committee that is under form

2:17:22You don't need to really

2:17:25Like you're allowed to do that. You're allowed to meet two or three to do that work

2:17:29But what I think we've done here is we've captured

2:17:33What has been discussed and I like that on the screen for you to see

2:17:38And again go through the same process of if you have any edits comments questions deletions. Please let me know

2:17:50All the store

2:17:52Sorry, yeah, this is why we do this writing as fast as I can

2:17:56all this thing

2:18:07Not comfortable with the bicentennial

2:18:10Sure recognition in that

2:18:12I think this we need to

2:18:16You know point five is the one for me

2:18:20You you want number three removed?

2:18:23This these programs will support other areas of service

2:18:29But the bicentennial program is being supported by like nine hundred thousand dollars, isn't it?

2:18:34Yeah, but what are we celebrating in a bicentennial program?

2:18:38What why are we spending nine hundred thousand dollars to celebrate?

2:18:41dying city

2:18:55I think I'm hearing point three be removed

2:18:58Okay

2:19:00should point four be a problem. It is the last time we would have delegated to the

2:19:07The honest uh start where we

2:19:10Yeah, and the order of this this one that's to no no this is just this is yeah order doesn't matter

2:19:15These are just all points to consider when you're creating your

2:19:19Yeah, just a launching off point just right like a soothing. Yeah, this is not the end of you. Yeah, it doesn't happen

2:19:26question

2:19:27If I know you said

2:19:29Hey, so google doc thing is inappropriate, but does that mean that like if we go back now the three of us write this together

2:19:37We don't have to have it approved by the rest of the committee before we delegate. This is just what you're getting here is

2:19:44Appointment to do it. So they're

2:19:47Nice, yeah, and I'm happy to

2:19:50I'm happy to jump in into document, but not delegated. Yeah, no one wants to hear what I want to say

2:19:59Um for the two the I'm thinking

2:20:02Just thinking how about more like help people

2:20:06Bring people and hold the community together

2:20:10I remember you like you have to hold

2:20:13Bringing seems to me a little just trivial just coming together

2:20:16But what actually holds it together? Yes, it's like it's falling apart. Yeah, it's like creating

2:20:22Cohesion yeah between humans and

2:20:28Yeah

2:20:30We're just cutting units in the park, but it's like

2:20:34That's not

2:20:36They just hear you want to do things where they live and then see people and I just asked

2:20:42to staff have

2:20:45data on

2:20:47Doors open means it's gone

2:20:49artists and residents gone with the whole program

2:20:54And culture days what what the whole not just a 15 cut like a cut of the whole thing

2:21:00The mayor's draft budget specifies those not like that your days artists and residents

2:21:06I'll say well no, no that that that means a freaking revolution. That's ridiculous. Yeah

2:21:12I thought you said 15 percent cut this thing and that included with those that took that

2:21:19The totality of the reductions is equivalent to 15 percent. That is disgusting

2:21:26And who approved that it's like

2:21:31It's just

2:21:32Anything the process is the mayor gets to make his budget though and this is now the call and response

2:21:38Um, but I would love to have some concrete data of the impact on citizens of the work

2:21:44In those four things so the little movies in the park

2:21:46The thing the thing the thing and then that can help inform

2:21:50Um, the very rapid five minutes that we have wow do you want Garrett?

2:21:55But what things you want and then well some of them

2:21:59Jump in a little bit there. You can't direct staff. No bring back work. Got it. Okay, so um, and

2:22:06We're

2:22:08Going the line here of appropriateness. Okay, so um

2:22:13What you can do is you can connect with staff and are there any public documents that provide this type of information

2:22:19You're more than welcome to reach out and do that

2:22:21But we cannot capture an emotion that stuff come back and give us this info

2:22:25Yeah, yeah, so we can we can look for the reports

2:22:28For those because I think my voice is I don't want this to be very

2:22:32Clear and programmed the line too when you cut this it means this this this and this and the impacts on citizens

2:22:39Are quantified like in that way

2:22:41So I think what you're referencing is data that's already available in other reports

2:22:44I mean if you turn the staff and say hey, can you remind me when that went to council or when that was public and I like

2:22:50Access for sure

2:22:52Thanks. Yeah, any other feedback on what's on the screen or are we good to

2:23:06And just the last thing for me then clarity for process

2:23:10People on this side of the table are writing

2:23:13Do we need to register as the delegates or whoever's speaking?

2:23:17So what I would recommend now is that whoever is going to speak

2:23:22Individually submit request the delegate on that night

2:23:27There's an online portal if you need help with that just email clerks or is there I we can get you that information

2:23:32Um, and then indicate that in that application that you're speaking on behalf of the committee

2:23:38Okay, that's here there. We're presenting this this specific question. You're representing any groups or anything like that

2:23:42So you can indicate that's on the night

2:23:44That's how it's on the 18th of November. Yeah

2:23:47What is open on that night the portal was always open to register

2:23:52But you have to register by the Friday prior

2:23:56You'll have to register that is correct by an a.m

2:24:00Uh the 18th so November 14th by 10 a.m. Quite honestly, I recommend you do it. Yeah

2:24:06Yeah, I find this

2:24:09Incredibly expensive to all of our time over the last several years

2:24:15being asked to come up with ideas and wording

2:24:19Born the artist or resident support program for all of these things and they have engaged

2:24:24People from culture and to put their feet back in to just do this

2:24:28Like that is insulting to our time a waste of our time

2:24:32Here's our effort in time even tonight

2:24:35Why like why are we here if anything we ever do and anything we ever contribute intellectually to these conversations

2:24:41It's just scrapped because holding onto taxes to be a certain way. Yeah

2:24:45Like that is just so beyond rude and offensive to every single person participating in these things

2:24:52For years now in good faith

2:25:02Think I've tried to capture this

2:25:06I'm a political today, so I'm trying to support you. I think in point six is what you're trying to say. I'm again

2:25:13I'm trying to do this as efficiently as possible. Please tell me to edit change update

2:25:17Impacts the work people have done it may it it renders a completely irrelevant and a waste of our time

2:25:25That's what it does

2:25:26Because there's one thing to cut like I thought initially from 10 gram or maybe about seven or something

2:25:31I thought if there's a cut this is not a cut

2:25:35This is a gone so that renders our work a waste of time. It is very insulting

2:25:42So I don't feel like being that subtle with it to be honest like I think well

2:25:45So the other thing I will say what we're writing here is not the word

2:25:49Yeah, so I think so you guys are also hearing the context in which these

2:25:53Hands are being made so they can run with that. Yeah, but I do want to make sure that I've at least captured

2:25:59The general nature of what you're trying to say so they can yeah, that's fine

2:26:02Okay, and I don't mind showing up to say that particular line

2:26:06Go with that

2:26:09Yeah, exactly. Just let me go

2:26:13So again, I'll ask if there's any other changes to that if not, Cheryl will be for a mover and a seconder in the phone, please

2:26:20um, so

2:26:22Does anybody I would like to learn for a waiting screen Julia and a seconder?

2:26:33Um, all in favor very so that's D. Sorry. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Um

2:26:39Anybody who's

2:26:41Okay, thank you everyone

2:26:45Um, do we want to go back to I am 3.2

2:26:48So, charlotte to you and the rest of the committee if we want to continue there's nothing stopping us from continuing going

2:26:55It would just be a matter of quorum, which is five. We currently have six

2:27:00So we could continue this as long as people are available. It's st. George's square, right? Yeah

2:27:07And to talk about it

2:27:10I should be a little bit of clarification

2:27:13Anybody over here could answer

2:27:16The counts is it will be council meeting or committee of the whole and we get those can be

2:27:20Special council budget if that's in there

2:27:23You know what I could I could come over and help you in a second

2:27:26If anybody opposed to the spelling the public

2:27:31Yeah, I was just trying to

2:27:33Yeah

2:27:36They still

2:27:38We've lost that they left but we still have six which is more than

2:27:45So from brevity I

2:27:47The packet said my report was in your package about the relocation of the family fountain and sculpture

2:27:54And don is going to

2:27:56Deliver the presentation

2:27:58I'll be short

2:28:01Yeah, don't mind that'd be great

2:28:04So, um as Tammy says, uh

2:28:07Just a report to committee on

2:28:09the removal of the family fountain

2:28:11The slides will come up in a minute

2:28:14There they are

2:28:17Um, so as you're aware, there is work. There has been work

2:28:23Underway and now work on the ground that is leading toward the complete revitalization of windom street or toward the St. George's square

2:28:31um museums and culture was invited into

2:28:35The process in the hair of the family fountain

2:28:38What that meant is that they're in the proposal of the redesign of St. George's square the fountain will be moved

2:28:45um

2:28:46You'll find in the public record for that process already that um

2:28:52The reason for the uh removal of the family fountain is because there are public works that need to happen below the

2:28:59Fountains so the fountain needs to be removed in order for that work to be done

2:29:03um, we uh our role in terms of management

2:29:08and recommendation, um

2:29:10around the removal was to first understand the

2:29:14uh, you know how the

2:29:17The family fountain was created in the first place the community involvement in the creation of it

2:29:23um the

2:29:25Responsibilities of the city to it as part of the public art program

2:29:29for public art collections, excuse me

2:29:31um

2:29:32And then also present day community consultation those uh many stakeholders who are invested in um in its return

2:29:40To its continued care, I should say and returned to to st. George's square

2:29:45um, so we have undertaken uh the process around the the initial process, which is the removal

2:29:52So if you could go to the second slide that'd be great

2:30:00um, so you can see here this is a photograph of the family fountain just after um

2:30:07The last major conservation work that was done

2:30:11Uh in 2024 so that conservation work addressed, uh the the bronzes in particular that included the the family

2:30:20figures as well as the uh frog

2:30:23waterspout

2:30:24And also the um, there's a plaque that acknowledges

2:30:28The history of the piece and the community contribution

2:30:31Um, we did this work in 2024. I should say also although not fully pictured

2:30:36There was a lot of work done to the concrete basins, which at that point had

2:30:41quite a bit of graffiti and other things modifications to them. So all of that was returned to um a clean state

2:30:48Uh, so everything the sculpture itself is is

2:30:52As stable as it could be

2:30:54We'll go to the next slide as part of the removal process. Um, we were tasked with uh finding a firm who could do the work of

2:31:06removing the sculpture safely

2:31:09transporting it to a storage location where it would have the appropriate care and conservation work done

2:31:14We contracted Toronto Art Restoration Inc. Uh, Toronto based company

2:31:19That has done a lot of work with municipalities across Ontario in particular, but also outside of Ontario

2:31:25on public artworks as well as uh fountains actually specifically. So, um

2:31:32We were able to work with them and also with our casting which is based in Georgetown

2:31:36There are bronze foundry. I understand a lot of work in this community

2:31:40In particular in the sculpture park at the art gallery of wealth. And so I had some history of relationship with that firm

2:31:47um

2:31:49What uh the process that we're in now is the sculptures have been removed

2:31:53They have been transported to our cast our cast is storing the sculptures

2:31:58For the duration of the construction work on windows 3 and st. George's square

2:32:02Um while they're in storage the sculptures are going to be um fully

2:32:08The condition assessment is going to be fully done. Um, they have to uh, there are bits of the

2:32:14Concrete that you can see on the underside the attachment piece to the bronzes itself

2:32:18They have to remove that remnant of concrete. Um, they have to um assess whether or not the

2:32:25Uh rebar threading uh that is the stability structure. Um internally of the sculptures is uh sound

2:32:32Stable if it's not then that would have to be replaced. Um, there was a

2:32:37A fracture in one of the legs of one of the figures that occurred very soon after it was originally installed in the 1980s

2:32:44That was repaired on site and has been stable since then

2:32:47Uh, there our cast is going to assess if the removal of the sculpture has destabilized that repair in any way

2:32:54So that's something we're looking at

2:32:56um

2:32:57Through this process they will provide us a treatment report

2:33:01And we will assess that ask any questions that we need and

2:33:05authorize conservation of the piece. Um

2:33:09To whatever degree after that assessment

2:33:12They will also so they'll be doing that conservation work while the piece is in storage because we can go on to the next slide. There's another

2:33:20So we're images of the piece actually being removed. Um

2:33:26I'll let you pause on that for just a brief moment that we can go to the next slide

2:33:32And this is as many of you will have noticed. Um, just a still from the

2:33:37design

2:33:38Concepts that have been shared by the city

2:33:41The idea or the the intention is to move the sculpture. Um to

2:33:47This location in the square

2:33:49um

2:33:50What you see here is a

2:33:55A broad

2:33:57Regulation of the redesign plan

2:33:59one of the things that we're considering um is

2:34:04Because we have to re um recreate the basins

2:34:08When they come out the concrete gets fully destroyed

2:34:11We can't remove it and piece it back together again like a puzzle

2:34:15The opportunity um in that is that we can use new composite material

2:34:21material that's

2:34:22Arguably more robust than the original concrete that was used to make uh the basins in the first place

2:34:28um, we have an opportunity to bring into better

2:34:32Cohesion and alignment the bronzes which are quite classical in aesthetic

2:34:38together with the new basins which um in its original concept work are quite brutalist in their

2:34:46aesthetic um to have a more integrated design between the basins and the figures itself

2:34:53We also have applied a bit of a calculation around

2:34:57sort of classical proportions using the golden ratio

2:35:01um

2:35:01framework or formula and that has allowed us to consider a slightly smaller

2:35:08Lower basin so it will be reduced in size by about four feet

2:35:12overall

2:35:13um, and so other things that we're thinking about are

2:35:16um, you know how to soften

2:35:20Some of those brutalist harder edges that were present in the original make it a little bit more inviting

2:35:25and sure that the

2:35:27relationship between the bronzes and the concrete basins is more um

2:35:33integrated

2:35:34Uh that the weight of the over the visual weight of the overall basin structure doesn't work the figures

2:35:42So it's a better proportion better balance

2:35:45We're also looking at water feature and lighting

2:35:49and we're also considering how to um

2:35:53Redesign it in such a way that the fountain is um

2:35:58An engagement a site of engagement for the community in all seasons so right now it

2:36:03Looks great when it's running in the middle of the summer and it's you know lively with the water feature and people are really appreciating that

2:36:11um, and it looks um a little bit bare

2:36:14and

2:36:15not very engaging uh through the winter months

2:36:18so we're looking at in the redesign a better integration of um

2:36:24Of how to how do we invite people to continue to engage with the sculpture in off seasons?

2:36:29So all of that work is to come

2:36:31there will be uh

2:36:34You know another design presented and shared publicly. Um, that is not the work of museums and culture

2:36:40We're just like making recommendations on steps for design and caring for the sculptures while they're in storage

2:36:49Just two additional points dad and and those who are on the public art advisory committee have seen

2:36:54this initiative

2:36:56Dawn and team have been involved in consulting consulting with

2:37:02The donors and community committee that raised funds and gifted the sculpture to the city

2:37:09So that consultation has happened in a song going and I think it's important to know that this is the only

2:37:18Peace within the city's public art collection that is in st. George's square and at this time

2:37:23affected by the changes that will be happening

2:37:38That was great. Same thing. We need to

2:37:41We found out

2:37:44There were uh two

2:37:46Staff recommendations here and I'll just give them up on the screen for consideration

2:37:55So the first recommendation is that you receive the staff plan for conservation and repositioning of the family

2:38:02Sculpture and fountain. Um, and then if there's an opportunity for comment if you had any

2:38:11personally

2:38:12Happy that we can change the basin

2:38:16I'm not sure we could do that for so

2:38:20That's better than it was

2:38:25Yeah, I feel like because I think it was

2:38:29Um originally brought in when we were kind of in that brutalism time

2:38:34Which is not my favorite art

2:38:37Fine, I know it's not funny, but there are you know benefits to it and I think it's

2:38:42Kind of nice that we're moving into maybe different

2:38:45Part of practical with the basin. I was wondering like the frogs

2:38:49Because I didn't see it in the photo and I think this is a bit of like, you know

2:38:53That kind of rendering but I wonder what is the are the frogs going to be in the same place or what they think

2:38:58So they might be in a different location around the lower basin that one piece we're looking at two pieces

2:39:03we're looking at is um

2:39:05The recommendation that the water that it be a water fountain a drinking fountain and to ensure that that is

2:39:12Done safely in the code

2:39:15And then the other piece is the accessibility

2:39:18Uh component so making sure that when it is resituated

2:39:23With the fountain that it be fully accessible

2:39:25So what does that mean? It could probably mean a lot of things we haven't actually exercised out with that process yet

2:39:31But it might mean that it's like for example can't a levered so that somebody in a chair or with mobility advice can

2:39:38Easily access the water fountain so to basically to move it to make it more accessible

2:39:45The other thing we're going to do is um the right now the acknowledgement plaque is inside the

2:39:50The basin and we have very hard water as we all know in wealth and it just creates

2:39:56All kinds of crystallization on the sign itself which makes it inaccessible to most people

2:40:01Anyway, so we're looking at moving that place again in more appropriate location

2:40:06Did you say

2:40:08With the original group who fundraised and yeah

2:40:12those consultations things that

2:40:15the um that's a

2:40:17yeah

2:40:17by stability

2:40:20Um would be those be reported to us or is it what's that so for the nature of those consultation?

2:40:28I mean donkins they

2:40:30have been positive conversations um

2:40:35And don if you want to share any more sure me to have they appreciate being kept in informed

2:40:40yeah, and um one of the things that we did initially is um

2:40:45There are two collections two fonts um that exist in two archives here in wealth one of the

2:40:50Well-summed museum, which was very handy for me to be able to access those

2:40:55And the second set of fonts from the creation of the fountain are placed currently at the uh wealth public library

2:41:02The fonts at the at the library are currently closed until the death of the donor

2:41:08Donor is still living. Um, so we were able to

2:41:11Connect with them. They gave us permission to access those fonts completely

2:41:16Without edit and we were able to do full review of all of the records of the original

2:41:22process and then I was able to have a

2:41:25Number of follow-up conversations with the two individuals who placed the fonts within both collections feeling

2:41:33Positive about it. They were very concerned

2:41:36That the a sculpture or excuse me the fountain would not be returned to st. George's Square. We're very happy to hear that it would be

2:41:42And their biggest concern from a design perspective is proportionality

2:41:46So making sure that the elements are proportional and that there is fluid integration with the rest of the design

2:41:53In the in the new square

2:42:00So it's kind of sounding like they don't have any comments

2:42:03Provide so it actually sounds like

2:42:06Rather than just to receive motion. I think the committee is in support of the plan

2:42:10So I think that we just made one small edit remove the the comment section and that just supported with the staff plan

2:42:17So we look for

2:42:23Um and a seconder

2:42:29I don't think that's sculpture

2:42:31I got a good stance for different things than I wanted to stay in for and that's okay

2:42:37But I'm in favor of that moving forward, but I do not also

2:42:42Second then all right are all in favor

2:42:46Okay, um, okay

2:42:53I'm getting uh three hours here. Um

2:42:57So moving on to item four cherry husbands. I don't have anything. Um, I don't know if there's any staff announcements

2:43:04I don't think I see any. Okay. So I think those are good school turns. So would anyone like to move to adjourn the meeting?

2:43:13Oh

2:43:18I think we're all in favor

2:43:22So the next vehicle me on November lisa

2:43:25at

2:43:28Right here