Council Orientation and Education Workshop

12:14All right everybody it is Wednesday May the 14th 2025 it's just after six o'clock

12:20and we are here for our council orientation and education workshop meeting and this is

12:27a workshop that's going to focus a lot around water wastewater systems and master planning

12:36and I appreciate all the work that staff have done to to pull this together for us and in a good

12:43a good record and archive of for anyone in the public that wishes to to see what's going on

12:49here as well as we move forward on these issues I do have regrets from well obviously council or work

12:58councillor alt councillor clausen and potentially councillor richardson so with that I know that

13:06we have quorum but we we just have quorum so to my friends that are online I would really

13:14appreciate it if you could leave your cameras on as much as you can please because if one of you

13:20drops off then it's like kind of a question of do we have enough people to keep going so

13:26councillor Caron I don't know if you just joined but just asking if we could you're good at this

13:29anyways keeping the camera on just so uh just so we can see that we have quorum and we can continue

13:35to move forward that would be great so welcome and uh is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest

13:41any general nature thereof of the items on our workshop nobody okay great I am going to turn

13:49it right on over to staff vector are you kicking this off on this yeah you're standing up so it's

13:55it's by default it's you so please go ahead thank you thank you very much mayor guthrie so good

14:02evening mayor guthrie city councilors the executive team and my colleagues at id back there

14:17all right so we're going to be kicking off our water wastewater capacity workshop

14:22my colleagues mr. Wayne galler and tim robertson will be presenting for water operations and

14:27wastewater operations there are some key takeaways and some areas of focus that we would like council to

14:35to have by the end of this presentation the first one is the link between supporting new housing

14:40supply and capacity there's a direct link between the two and capacity does have to come ahead of

14:47any housing or growth next is aligning approvals to available servicing capacity and ensuring that

14:55necessary rigor and managing servicing capacity allocation to manage service reputational risks

15:00as well as to maintain levels of existing service to customers third key takeaways to

15:06define the current servicing capacity bring awareness to servicing master plan capital

15:12projects being implemented by staff to develop new servicing capacity needs for community growth

15:17and here what we're really going to look at is the runway for us to build out our facilities to

15:22meet growth and development for terry and his team to build the linear infrastructure needed ahead

15:27of growth and development there is quite a runway required we can't just kind of flip a switch and

15:31build items it will take several years and the staff will be speaking to that we would also like to

15:38talk about sharing servicing policy work under development to harness new authority introduced

15:42under bill 185 for servicing allocation reallocation as appropriate again we have all of our ES leaders

15:51here because when we're looking at building out capacity for growth each one has key involvement

15:58in this whether it's building the linear infrastructure whether it's working with the

16:02business community and obviously on the development side with miss walkie so as far as the workshop

16:09agenda i'll go through this quickly and we'll pass it off to mr galler first we'll be talking about

16:14water wastewater systems background the history and i learned some of this going through this with

16:19tim and wane it's quite interesting the forebears at gwell they were they really had a lot of foresight

16:26the systems that they put in place the infrastructure they put in place i mean it still impacts the city

16:30today so i think just from a even just from a learning perspective it was something that i thought was

16:38quite interesting and it really showed a lot of excuse me foresight on their part

16:44we'll be talking about water servicing wastewater treatment master planning

16:48new supply and wastewater treatment project life cycles and again that'll include both

16:53facilities and linear inter municipal servicing commitments there are a couple of commitments

16:58that gwell currently has and we'll talk to our need or ability to look at servicing commitments

17:03going forward bill 185 capacity allocation process and what we're called the use it or

17:08lose it bylaw i'll give some brief closing remarks and then we'll open it up to questions and

17:14answers so with that i'll pass it off to mr galler great thank you very much nectar and good

17:28evening mr mayor members of council great to be here and thank you for joining us this evening

17:34momentarily i will start the presentation but doing so i just wanted before doing so i just

17:38want to share a brief note regarding format with the agenda topics having both a water and wastewater

17:43component tim and myself will be switching back and forth as we speak to our areas of responsibility

17:49so um hoping to do this seamlessly but just letting you know in advance

17:54all right so getting started with some background on water services and where our water comes from

18:00the city's communal water system was first established in 1879 for the purpose of water

18:04needs for firefighting this was later explained expanded part of me to include drinking water

18:10for various customers in confronting waterborne illness essentially confronted in private wells

18:15at the time our system today is comprised of 25 municipally owned production wells which we rely on

18:22for all our drinking water needs with locations shown here in black dots on the the graphic provided

18:29between those black dots we essentially see 560 kilometers of water main which brings water from

18:34its source to residents and businesses across our community the capacities of the wells are

18:39individually approved and permitted for operation by the ontario ministry of conservation or ministry

18:44of the environment conservation of parks and possess a total permitted capacity of 79,422

18:50liters per day although permitted at this rate actual re yield or the firm capacity of the system

18:57has found to be 69 that or 69,7,000,000 liters per day when taking into account mutual interference

19:06between wells and wells that may be offline at this time due to water quality challenges

19:11and speaking to currently existing offline wells there are a couple that I just draw your attention

19:23to here that have importance with respect to our future water supply the Clithe well currently

19:29offline due to natural current iron manganese and sulfides in the source water and small field

19:35and saco wells currently offline due to contamination from neighboring property these wells form part

19:40of our water supply mix in the future and I'll speak to more of what we're doing to implement

19:44new water supplies to support growth in our community beyond this other wells that I just

19:50draw your attention to our test wells these are common sources of new water supply as far as

19:56assessing the feasibility in many cases locations derived through our detailed hydrogeologic models

20:05specifically in digging a little deeper four wells of significance through the water supply

20:10plan include ironwood and steffler located near the dole I'm quarry

20:14Guelph south located in phase three of the Hanlon business park on city own land on forestel road

20:20and lastly the Logan test well located in Guelph area most of township on east of your road

20:24extended I'll discuss these sources later in the presentation but first I'd hand things over to Tim

20:30to provide an overview of the wastewater system great thanks Wayne and good evening Mayor Guthrie

20:39members of council I'm pleased to have the opportunity to take you on a quick journey

20:47through the city's background background regarding wastewater in the early 1900s the city of Guelph

20:53began the daunting task of constructing sanitary and storm sewer infrastructure by 1903 two covered

21:02septic tanks a stone toolhouse and an implement channel were built at the current location of

21:08the water resource recovery center if we fast forward 122 years there are now 525 kilometers

21:16of sanitary pipe five sewage pumping stations and a single source of wastewater treatment at the

21:21water resource recovery center the center is recognized as a leader in wastewater treatment

21:27within the Grand River watershed and has been annually recognized by the GRCA since 2017 with

21:32either a gold silver or bronze award for efforts in reducing pollutant loads to the Grand River

21:37and its tributaries in 2022 at our open house we formally changed the name from the wastewater

21:44treatment plant to water resource recovery center to emphasize the focus on wastewater as a resource

21:50rather than a waste this map this map provides a visual representation of the wastewater collecting

22:02system while the majority of the wastewater flow is by gravity the city owns and operates five

22:09sewage pumping stations dictated depicted by the yellow triangles on the map there

22:15additionally to the lower left of the map shows the location of the water resource recovery center

22:27the wastewater systems including collection and treatment are owned and operated by the city

22:32the wastewater comprises domestic institutional commercial and industrial sources within the

22:37city boundaries as shared on the previous slide additionally approximately two percent of the

22:43total flow comes from the village of Rockwood and the gaze of Mooney subdivision the current

22:49capacity of the water resource recovery center is 64,000 cubic meters per day with a current

22:55average daily flow of about 55,000 cubic meters per day just to put that into context it's about

23:02the equivalent of treating 1.2 times the center of Rogers center every day the wastewater treatment

23:09process generates residuals with nutrient and energy value both of which are recovered

23:16with current practices our biogas is captured and used as a fuel to generate electricity and

23:22heat through cogeneration all of the biosolids generated receive enhanced treatment making the

23:28biosolids management process 100% landfill divergent this enhanced treatment results in

23:34a product called LISTEC this is an approved Canadian food inspection agency fertilizer

23:39that is beneficially reused through land application my last slide in this section provides a snapshot

23:50of the current processes at the water resource recovery center the center is located at 530

23:56Wellington street west and occupies 20 hectares 49 acres or the equivalent of 26 soccer fields

24:03later in the presentation i was shared major capital events happening at the

24:06this wastewater resource recovery center to meet the required capacity of 72,500

24:13megalusas per day by the end of 2028 lastly i'm proud to share that optimization is part of the

24:21culture and with the support of our talented team i can confidently confidently state that all

24:27infrastructure is optimized to its full potential before any new construction is considered i'll

24:36turn it over to Wayne now great thank you very much tim i'm moving to our next agenda topic i now

24:46like to transition to discuss master planning of these important services for water services

24:52specifically the water supply master plan as our business case guidance document and roadmap in

24:56establishing new water supply to meet the needs of our 2051 provincial growth targets this master

25:02plan was last updated and approved by council in 2022 and defines a 29 year 164 million dollar

25:09capital implementation plan to support new water supply development to meet the 2051 target

25:15completed under a class ea process outcomes of this plan are structured from what are most

25:21direct and affordable to what is most complex and expensive as far as the ranking of recommendations

25:27further the master plan will be reopened again in 2028 to investigate new information coming from

25:32field work since the current master plan was completed and confirm the recommended path forward

25:37in servicing projects for growth lastly this master plan will come to inform or came to inform

25:44part of me the city's linear servicing master plan which we'll speak to a little bit later in the

25:48presentation okay the water supply master plan is a detailed study which assesses drinking water

25:55needs of projected community growth versus what is the current capacity of the existing water

26:00treatment system to ensure security of supply for existing customers and future customers

26:06the water master plan process comes to model and evaluate the future water demands of projected

26:11growth as well as a number of considerations that may practically happen through provision of water

26:16service these include studying trends and current production needs to meet individual sector demands

26:23assessing average day production needs versus what are peak day production needs

26:27and coming to understand what are driving the peak demands which again are the basis for staging

26:32capital infrastructure coming to ensure regular regulatory design standards are met assessing

26:38the adequacy of water supply during seasonal droughts and other threats of climate change

26:43assessing adequacy of adequacy pardon me of supply in cases where the largest state of service may

26:49be out of order due to unplanned maintenance so all of these inputs of the water supply master

26:55plan are shown on the slide for reference specifically the table on the right side shares

26:59outcomes of assessment in looking to 2038 servicing versus what was the 2013 beginning point

27:08under this robust master plan taking these unknowns and uncertainties into account the most recent

27:142022 water supply master plan recommends future servicing allocations also look to include a

27:2015% buffer as a safety factor to best manage level of risks to customers in the future should

27:26a drought or significant infrastructure failure occur in assessing trends in water demand it is

27:34also important to recognize the great job that water conservation and demand management has

27:40played to date as well as into the future the following slide shows population growth the green

27:46line versus average day build water use dark blue line average day production the light blue line

27:53and the highest peak day of each year reflected in pink from 2014 to 2023 wealth's population

28:00increased by 15.1% while annual average consumption increased only by 2.7% over the period this

28:09decoupling of water demand versus population growth is significant and reducing water demand

28:14through education and programming allows us to facilitate more growth within our existing

28:18approvals and buys time to investigate permit and construct and commission new water infrastructure

28:24to meet our growth needs conservation and demand management are long-standing values of our community

28:30and remain important to the future as we ensure the best management and protection of our local

28:34resources to this end our water supply master plans are unique in the industry and the fact

28:39that they evaluate the opportunity of reclaiming demand through conservation and efficiency

28:44and set time-based targets for this work to that end coming from the 2022 water supply master plan

28:51the current water blueprint initiative is working to identify future-facing program and resource

28:56requirements we need to meet these targets this initiative is being led by our environmental

29:01services compliance performance and programming team and is set to come before council later this

29:06year I do apologize that I know this graph is quite complicated but it is a key reference point under

29:16the water supply master plan essentially what this slide shares is the future demand forecast

29:22coming from projected population growth versus the years when new water supply projects need to be

29:28implemented to support the growth plan to help and provide some context you can see a number of

29:34lines on the left hand side at approximately 75 000 that breach out into three separate projections

29:41essentially these come to mirror what is population growth as anticipated on a per capita basis

29:47over the period and the separate essentially slopes of those lines include what is a 5 10 and 15

29:54percent safety factor in evaluating the timing of infrastructure needs the black line which crosses

30:01the graph at 79 422 meters cube per day equals our current system capacity and lastly as you see the

30:08dotted lines position positioned above that it represents both the new water sources that need

30:13to be on onboarded in order as well as how much capacity each of those represents this graph is

30:21an important reference point to understand the timing of when new sources are needed based off

30:25of trends and demand by example the graph tells us that next water supply alternatives are offline

30:30wells specifically clithe well based on planning being on peak demand as the limiting variable the

30:3715 safety factor slope shows that well is being required in 2024 however as we come to normalize

30:44this versus our current peak day water demands which was only 56 000 in 2024 reductions through

30:52demand reductions through demand management we're seeing that again that source can be delayed from

30:562024 to 2027 this deferral investments has real value and essentially gives us that much needed

31:04buffer to onboard what are challenging and time intensive projects although we've enjoyed the

31:11benefit of being more conservative of this than this forecast date it's important to note that

31:16should approvals come to outpace the forecast conversely this could mean that water supplies

31:22would need to be onboarded quicker and if we're unable to essentially service development proposals

31:28at the time we may see a freeze until the time in which we can onboard new sources for reference

31:37the following slide shares key projects by short medium and long term in accordance with recommendations

31:42of the water supply master plan at this time works continue on short terms zero to 10 year

31:47initiatives which i'll highlight as part of these next points the next step that the other water

31:53supply master plan is scheduled for 2029 at which time we will confirm both the medium and long

31:59term projects through update of the study and integration of most recent information for council's

32:06awareness i would note that a great likes pipeline is not part of the servicing master plan for

32:10our community and is not considered in the plan based off of councils past direction from 2007

32:16that growth be managed within the context of local resource availability based on council

32:21direction we have plotted a path for additional water resources needed to meet the 2051 target

32:27however as we look at outcomes of that plan we don't anticipate many more local groundwater

32:36resources beyond the 2051 timeline to that end as we seek seek to revisit the study in 2028 staff

32:43will come back to council to in turn confirm if this direction stands or if council would like us

32:48to undertake a different scope through the next water supply master plan to briefly highlight

32:57some key projects currently underway to increase servicing capacity community for our community

33:02i would start with the cli th well this is an already permitted city well source with an approved

33:07volume of just over 5.2 million liters of water per day currently offline due to natural occurring

33:13aesthetic issues with sulfide iron and meganese a class EA for construction of a treatment plant

33:19was completed in 2019 and detailed design is ongoing at this time and anticipated to be

33:25completed in q1 of next year at which point we'll be seeking to advance a construction tender for

33:30this project based off of this volume this equals the equivalent of about 24,800 people bringing

33:37this source online the next project is the gwell south supply environmental assessment this EA is

33:47being formed on a test well on city-owned land within phase three of the handland business park

33:52an initial 72 hour pump test completed in 2019 had showed a great potential for sustainable

33:57groundwater takings at the site of just over 4.5 million liters of water per day or the equivalent

34:03of 21,300 additional people the 30 day pump test under the EA is planned for june of this year and

34:11we've been actively working with our municipal neighbors to ensure that there's adequate monitoring

34:15and they're well aware of this project and abilities to participate through this EA we're seeking to

34:21attain a permit to take water for this new well source once a permit to take water is secured next

34:26steps would be to initiate a secondary EA for a treatment plant and pump station followed by

34:31formal design and construction lastly another promising project is the gwell northeast water

34:40supply EA at Logan test well this program process comes to focus on Logan test well which is located

34:45in gwell fair amasa township on eastville road extended this well has undergone both a 72 hour

34:52and 30 day pump test and has shown suitable takings of over 6.4 million liters of water per day and

34:59limited impact to neighboring wells again the equivalent of just over 30,000 people this EA

35:05was initiated in january of this year and we've just completed a p.i.c. this week in uh gwell

35:11fair amasa township uh through this EA we are again seeking provincial approval for a permit to take

35:17water thereafter separate ea's would need to be completed for both the treatment and pumping

35:22station as well as linear infrastructure needed to bring this source into the city and now turn

35:27things over to tim to discuss the wastewater treatment and biosolids master plan thanks rain

35:34possibly the longest name for master plan okay the city was wastewater treatment and biosolids

35:43master plan was completed in 2022 it outlines the capital expenditures at the water resource

35:49recovery center to support growth until 1051 the scope of the master plan was expanded to a schedule

35:56c class schedule c class environmental assessment and corporate interfaces three and four the class

36:01EA process uh the reason for the suspended scope is that we're able to develop an environmental

36:07study report which facilitated the immediate progression of capital projects to pre-design

36:12this chart shows the anticipated expansion requirements for the wastewater for wastewater

36:24treatment up to the planning horizon of 1051 keep in mind that wastewater flow can fluctuate

36:31a five-year running averages are used to ensure the projected flow rate versus actual flows to

36:35not place the city in jeopardy capacity planning is based on the provided growth projections and

36:41ensures that capacity is in place ahead of when it's actually required currently the water resource

36:47recovery center is at 85 percent of its rated capacity this is a typical time for initiating

36:52expansion plans the phase one expansion is underway and this will be to increase capacity

36:58to the 72,500 cubic meters per day mark current projections estimate phase two expansion to

37:05increase capacity to 79,200 cubic meters per day to be required around 2038 just to note that after

37:13completion of any ea capital projects uh require about a three to five-year runway from pre-designed

37:19to commissioning and we will have a slide later on to look at that in more detail okay this chart

37:28outlines the level of investment plan for the water resource recovery center over two phases

37:33in order to stay ahead of growth and address the end of life equipment as mentioned before the phase

37:40one expansion is underway this is a hundred and forty million dollar investment and this will

37:44increase the flow capacity by 8,500 cubic meters per day to the 72,500 cubic meters per day or 72.5

37:53ml d per day and is fully funded in the 10-year capital program we'll take a closer look into

37:59these projects on my next slides the phase two expansion is outside of the 10-year capital

38:06planning window and will be further defined through the next master plan update it's currently

38:12projected though that another 6,700 cubic meters per day will be required by around the 2038 mark

38:19and which will take this capacity up to 79.2 ml d part of that phase two expansion will also

38:26include some pilot testing of new technologies on in the existing infrastructure as this will

38:32inform the decision whether a new plant five is required or not it'll also look into the study

38:37and the feasibility of co-digestion okay as referenced previously there was a significant

38:48investment happening at the facility over the next five years there are four key capital projects

38:54that I would like to share with you today the first is the tertiary treatment and UV disinfection

38:59project you look a bit closely you'll see a yellow star that's kind of the location and where we're

39:04going to build this this project has a budget of 50.3 million dollars the project is underway and

39:10is approaching the 30 design phase the construction contract is scheduled to be awarded in q4 this

39:16year this investment will address the life cycle replacement of 50-year-old sand filters

39:22transition disinfection from chemical addition to UV and most importantly supports growth and

39:28firm capacity in this area of the process as required by the mecp okay next up is the largest

39:40investment at 70 million dollars is the biosolids expansion this project is also underway and is

39:47approaching the 30 design phase this construction contract is scheduled to defer q3 of 2026

39:54and this investment will result in an all-in-one biosolids facility it'll support growth

40:00replaces end-of-life equipment and provides for a very efficient way of managing biosolids

40:07from a biosolids perspective this is a pretty cool building to build this is going to be a

40:11generational kind of build and having everything under one roof is really a great thing to do

40:17moving cake and sludge around is not very efficient this will be really really neat when it's done

40:29and the third of the four projects is our plan to clarify our expansion

40:34this project has a budget of 14 million dollars and is set to kick off later this year

40:39the construction contract is scheduled to be awarded in q4 2026 this investment is a very good

40:45example of how existing infrastructure is being optimized before building new so we're just adding

40:50on to the end of a plan two here as opposed to building anything that comes ahead of the process

40:55so optimization current infrastructure before building this project is critical in supporting

41:01the facility's capacity increase application to the ministry later in the year and the fourth

41:12and final project like to share with you tonight is the preliminary treatment expansion this project

41:17has a budget of eight million dollars and is set to get started early in 2026 2026 the construction

41:24contract is scheduled to be awarded in 2027 this project is critical in supporting the facility's

41:29capacity increase application to the mcp by providing firm capacity at the front end of the

41:35process so with that i'll turn it back over to wane to talk us through some project lifecycle

41:50thank you tim with all master plan based projects it's important to know that there's a significant

41:55project lifecycle in years of concurrent work to essentially move from what is a concept in a master

42:00plan to what is a permitted constructed and commissioned new water supply or wastewater

42:05treatment process as such as nectar had mentioned in our introduction it's it's very hard to start

42:12and stop this work specifically for new water supply this slide comes to identify the process

42:18and assessing the feasibility of a potential water source conducting an environmental assessment to

42:22gain approval of a permit to take water from the province interior before design and construction

42:27can be initiated with any certainty furthermore as we come to pursue sources outside the city

42:32and other jurisdictions environmental assessments can become very contentious when looking at

42:37competition for available water in the natural environment for growth and impacts to landowners

42:42who may find themselves in wellhead protection areas and subject to land use restrictions in the

42:46clean water act should a new municipal drinking water source be approved these factors contribute

42:52to the overall range of time with increased investments needed should there be a public

42:59discern against the proposal and additional time to essentially study and evaluate issues identified

43:08in the city's own history essentially we've seen this at arco spring grounds in the early 2000s

43:13where it took over 10 years of ongoing well pardon me 10 years of infrastructure investment as well

43:20as ongoing monitoring under an adaptive management plan format before we had a expansion of our arco

43:26wellfield permit approved taking all these factors into account in the complete project timeline

43:34new water supply can range from just over 10 years to just over 20 years to bring forward

43:38a new permitted source further to information shared on both the water supply master plan and

43:49wastewater treatment and biosolids master plan there is a third master plan which is also important

43:53to to discuss tonight that being our linear servicing master plan this master plan is led

43:59by engineering and transportation services and is informed by both the water master plan and

44:04wastewater master plan to define how we convey water to the place where growth is taking place in

44:10the city and ultimately convey those wastewater volumes back to the plant again over the same

44:16planning period of 2022 to 2051 although these linear systems do not create capacity the master

44:23plan works to identify increases needed in pipe sizing and hydraulic needs as well as storage

44:29and firefighting checks to ensure that growth in nodes can be supported safely and maintain levels

44:35of service to existing customers looking specifically to major water projects coming from this master

44:45plan specifically to renewal and sizing increases and key arteries in our water distribution system

44:51to meet projected growth on York road pump station construction at verney tower and linear upgrades in

44:57this area of the system to support growth in the north of the city renewal and upsizing within

45:02the downtown to reflect increased future growth and upgrades to aged infrastructures within the

45:08old university neighborhood next tim will speak to the wastewater projects right there thank you

45:19is that changed sorry yeah okay yeah so the major wastewater services and projects that our

45:25colleagues on engineering and managing include that competing the final stage of the york trying

45:30replacement out to the city limits replacement of the trunk servers on wellington pistol street

45:36waddlew in order to address capacity challenges and to provide resiliency uh no this also includes

45:43a trunk sewer to be tunneled under the hand when connecting to the water resource recovery center

45:48detailed design underway with 1027 and likely construction start the downtown renewal continues

45:54with replacement of upsizing of age sanitary lines on windham wellington and kibbeck street

46:01and in order to accommodate growth on speedball avenue and senate and address sanitary capacity

46:06concerns the sanitary service in the exhibition area will be replaced and rerouted in order to

46:12avoid the baseball fields and diamonds quick for me at that time back over to wing further to our

46:27own servicing interests city staff commonly receive requests for servicing for properties outside of

46:32the minnesot boundary with interest to develop their land lands in the surrounding townships of

46:36guelph-aramasa and pusslinch respectively to address the high volume of these requests and

46:41associated lobbying received in the past city staff developed and gained city councils approval of a

46:46servicing policy for properties outside the municipal boundary in late 2019 to define the

46:51city's process in these circumstances in accordance with the municipal act as policy comes to reinforce

46:57the requirement for landowners to approach the host municipality with within which their land resides

47:02for servicing should the host municipality not have servicing capacity uh capacity available

47:09but are supportive of the proposal the policy would see a council to council based resolution

47:13seeking servicing of the lands within their municipality thereafter should city council

47:18have interest in this proposal it would be directed to staff for review and report back to council for

47:23further deliberations rationale for this approach is twofold uh first the official plan seeks to

47:29discourage fringe developments along the municipal boundary which cross boundary servicing would come

47:33to promote and secondly at this time we are still working to establish servicing to reach our 2051

47:39growth targets and do not have access capacity to share at this time i would note however that we do

47:50have two uh municipal to municipal servicing based agreements that are long-standing with the township

47:56of guelph-aramasa uh the first is a water servicing agreement which pertains to supply and operation

48:03annual maintenance of the gazermony subdivision an area within guelph-aramasa township of approximately

48:0870 homes and seven kilometers of water main physically connected to the northeast of our

48:12distribution system this agreement is fixed at its current servicing level and sees the

48:17city capture all water weight revenues for work performed on the system the second agreement is

48:23a wastewater servicing agreement encompassing operation of the gazermony subdivision as well

48:28as collection and treatment of wastewater volumes from the town of rockwood historically flows coming

48:34from this agreement represent about two percent of our current wastewater treatment plant loading

48:39for which we receive revenues from guelph-aramasa township on a volumetric basis this agreement

48:44is currently under review by both parties for renewal with the revised agreement anticipated

48:49to come before council in four of this year the following slide shares what is understood to be

48:59current unallocated servicing capacity within the city's water and wastewater systems as of

49:04december 31st 2024 staff understand it to be approximately uh 3.7 million liters of water

49:11per day of water capacity and uh 8.08 million liters of water per day of wastewater servicing

49:18capacity still remaining to be committed to growth this equals water resources for 17,800

49:26and 22,400 persons respectively with reference to these numbers again staff continue to execute

49:33capital projects to establish new servicing capacity for forecast forecasted growth in

49:42looking a little bit on how we currently allocate servicing capacity in looking to allocation

49:48currently this is done on a first come first serve basis the time of formal allocation of

49:54servicing to property comes at the time of development agreement and issuance of a building

49:59permit development agreements have a three-year term but are currently extended to support the

50:04construction plans of the proponent the process sees proponents identify their servicing needs

50:10through pre-consultation or site plan submission and this is then assessed by engineering and

50:14transportation services through a detailed water and wastewater hydraulic model to ensure servicing

50:20at the location can be supported further the process would see environmental services water

50:29services and wastewater services respectively engaged through site plan or other means should

50:34there be water demands of significance such as a new business or business expansion it's important

50:41to note that through the allocation process we are looking at the allocation of one volume for

50:46our various objectives as such approval of a significant business proposal could come to

50:51consume available capacity for housing and vice versa speaking to challenges with this current

51:02process first a challenge that we are seeing is one of legacy property owners who hold capacity

51:10approvals which do not have plans to construct or have no formal timeline associated with development

51:18again this capacity at this time remains with these developments even though there may be other

51:23shovel ready projects that may be able to move ahead with our approved zoning we anticipate

51:29population densities by land use type and it is common that site plan applications seek to

51:34drastically increase density requiring greater water use per parcel and coming to consume more

51:39service and capacity than anticipated if approved lastly as discussed earlier it takes time to

51:45permit and construct new servicing capacity and there exists potential for significant

51:49application requests to come and utilize significant portions of available capacity

51:54of approved as such supporting these requests is not even possible even though we understand the

51:58great benefits of the various alternatives providing municipalities with further tools

52:07to manage growth bill 185 came to implement changes to the municipal act so to allow municipalities

52:12to introduce servicing bylaws by council approval which would allow municipalities revoke reclaim

52:18and reallocate servicing capacity if development of new housing does not proceed under a defined

52:23period following planning approvals since the fall of last year a staff working group has been

52:29hard at work in development of a new internal process to increase the rigor of our servicing

52:34capacity management this process is set to roll out in q3 and aims to engage applicants

52:39early in the process to understand their servicing needs and limit any wasted investment or effort

52:45should we not be in a place to support in building upon this new process staff will be launching

52:54formally this month a new process or a new project pardon me to form a water and wastewater

53:00servicing allocation policy and bylaw for council's approval including the user lose

53:05its servicing provision brought forward through bill 185 the formal announcement is planned

53:11later this month and will include two rounds of have your say engagement to solicit stakeholder

53:16input on what a policy should entail and other considerations as well as what is planned to

53:21be a 30-day review period of a draft policy before coming to council in q4 of this year

53:28we'll certainly share information with council when launched for your awareness and i would ask

53:32you please direct these on to any interested constituents you may have that brings me to

53:37the end of my portion hand things back to nectar thank you very much wean and tim so we're going

53:46to go into our question and answer session of the presentation again through the presentation

53:54i'm hoping that what really stuck through to council is that link again between capacity and

53:59development i've probably said it three or four times but it is so key the link between any

54:06increases to developments today that we're not planned for and the impact that may have down the

54:11road it doesn't mean that the capacity isn't there but there could be an impact down the road so

54:16we're front loading at times and it may impact us five ten years out and i think what else i hope

54:23comes through that staff have worked hard together with council through budget to ensure that we're

54:28meeting our capacity needs over the next 10 15 years going forward and the plan that they have in

54:34place as tim mentioned there will be a bylaw coming through to council again it's to kind of have

54:39something in place where we can document a process that speaks to how we allot capacity today from

54:45our unallocated and how we're going to move to ensure that that capacity remains as we move forward

54:51for growth and development with the work that the staff do so on that i will open it up to

54:57questions and hopefully you have quite a few thank you what time does the leaf scheme start

55:05just kidding that's our first question right now that's great thank you very much

55:13i learned a lot there that was that was really good uh councillor Gibson i think i saw your hand

55:19go up yes yeah just to get started thanks for the presentation it was great it's great to hear some of

55:23the history again sometimes being around for a little while really benefits your ability to

55:28sort of see the the forest that we've sort of built here about 10 years ago we talked a lot about

55:33the effectiveness of conservation in the city and the ability to put off or defer investments

55:40needed in wastewater it sounds like those investments are now needed can i just ask staff to sort of

55:46bring that context to the conversation i remember i remember 10 years ago we touted you know

55:5130 40 million dollars of deferred expenses at our wastewater treatment plant because of conservation

55:56is this is this the byproduct now the the investments that we're making

56:01is this the the benefit and product of all the deferral from conservation efforts

56:11through mr mayor to councillor to the councillor pardon me um yes certainly um if you'd look to

56:20the water supply master plan and our 2022 water supply master plan we continue from an economic

56:25perspective to speak to the benefit that conservation provides to the deferral and timing of

56:33investments in infrastructure certainly the community has done a significant amount of work

56:40in water conservation and to your point i think we're seeing many of the benefits of that now

56:47the water footprint which again is an ongoing study which will come to council later this year

56:52we'll really speak to where we feel the best opportunity is from a conservation perspective

56:57moving forward and will include a like analysis to talk of value to the community as far as

57:04deferring the timing of infrastructure investment thank you last question for me there was lots of

57:11talk about the year and a half ago when we were discussing provincial ministerial orders along

57:18vittoria road and and council voted to increase density there allow a little bit more height

57:23and little bit more density and there was questions at the time about servicing and water supply

57:28can staff just elaborate on what they've done since then on ensuring that all the projects that

57:33are approved now have the have the capacity and have the sourced water to support them

57:41and is more work needed as a result of council's decisions uh christa walkie's just coming down

58:02everybody online if you're just wondering what's going on i apologize by branched into development

58:07too much there mr. mayor i heard a lot about water supply so no christa christa is here to answer

58:14no thanks uh council gives in so um i think the purpose of tonight is really to set the stage

58:20that we're we know changes coming a lot of changes have happened in our policy framework they're

58:24going to continue to um happen as there's an increased emphasis to build housing now and build

58:30things quicker so what we're doing is we're we're monitoring our water usage um to ensure that we're

58:37tracking as we increase these uses what it means um and then the user to lose a policy is is kind of

58:43key so although the the province or council may say yes to a zoning amendment for higher density

58:52it really reflects the timing you come in so it is that user to lose it so we don't have sites

58:58sitting since 1987 with approvals that haven't bill yet um so just because the you may have

59:05increased density through zoning it does not mean that it's guaranteed for life you have to

59:11come in you have to build and that's the whole user to lose that capacity process so that we're

59:16working to get houses built and that will continue to monitor and as we have to do the you know

59:20investments in the long long term we'll see where we're at it may come forward a year or not but

59:26that is the intent to monitor closely but there is a lot of changes that have occurred

59:31that's great thank you i guess the benefit of what you just said the user to lose it is

59:35that we're not investing in our own water wastewater for the approved sites um because if those approved

59:42sites don't get built you know there's never it's a it's a really vague picture of what we need and

59:47what we are needing to invest in so i appreciate that context thank you yeah just a follow-up from

59:55councillor uh denner christa might want to stick the um thanks i just want to follow up to that one

1:00:03but the the user to lose it well we can't make it retroactive to those 5500 units that haven't

1:00:14been developed can you yeah the truth of the matter the councillor we can oh again so um i like that

1:00:19the zoning bylaw for example has a policy that says you know prior to building permit you have to

1:00:24demonstrate that services are adequate and available um it's a section which um we and

1:00:29terry's group and engineering services rely on every time we review a site plan um

1:00:34so we will be taking a look at that we will have transition policies to ensure that it's you know

1:00:39it's fair um but it is it is appropriate to to take a look at that and the province also came out

1:00:45with legislation that a draft plan a subdivision is good for three years a site plan is good for

1:00:50three years so um i think the timing is applicable and we'll ensure that those who are ready to go

1:00:56have the adequate services that we can we can move forward with that's good news okay well i look

1:01:01forward to seeing these policies come forward can i add on just a comment i i think it was a really

1:01:08great presentation so i thought i don't don't have any questions for for follow-up but it's you

1:01:14know i just want to you know kudos around the water conservation that you know guelph has been a

1:01:19leader in and for a long long long long time before it was even you know a sexy idea to conserve water

1:01:28but it was you know and i really um guelph has been very committed to that and you can see those

1:01:33charts where you know 15 growth and 2 increase in water supply that's pretty phenomenal um

1:01:40so so that's great and i love the innovative work that's going out on the wastewater side as well

1:01:47that's that's all really interesting and and going to uv is that's an interesting and i look forward

1:01:53to the next tour out there we seem to do them every every couple of years so um when some of the

1:02:00work is done it'd be great to have some more tours out there and uh also haven't been out to the water

1:02:06for a long time either so look forward to some trips out there so that was a great a great update

1:02:13on where we are and the plans of where we're going to able to manage and and the risks that we have

1:02:20as well moving forward if we we don't make it's important infrastructure decisions

1:02:28so oh there was a question that did come to mind um while i was watching the presentation and it's

1:02:34around the DCs so are we compromised in any way because of there's just been a myriad of decisions

1:02:43around development charges and this and that and up you know coming and going on on with the province

1:02:51are we compromised in any way financially due to development charge decisions that have been

1:02:58made at the provincial level with creating further capacity in our water and wastewater

1:03:12through mr mayor to councillor downer from a water and wastewater servicing perspective

1:03:17um there were some initial changes under the DC act for things like property and feasibility

1:03:23studies but those were later added back as applicable costs so um we are still whole from

1:03:28that perspective and uh there aren't issues associated with uh with development charges the

1:03:34rates that we've were the budgets and the collections that we've put in the current period at this time

1:03:44thank you uh boost it till then i'll call right back to you gibson and then uh kate and by the way

1:03:49we're in a workshop so you don't have to do the whole through through you mr mayor okay it's we're

1:03:54just casually talking away so through you mr mayor um i just had a question thank you the

1:04:01presentation was great i i think i have a good understanding of capacity development uh changing

1:04:08all the time and and i'm really struggling with when i think of development i think of

1:04:15uh this kind of development on the ground generates this number of residents so

1:04:22when you're thinking about the draw on our capacity it's by our types of development my question is

1:04:30are you seeing or is there a mechanism to see a mismatch and i'll give an example um a one bedroom

1:04:38apartment you might have on the ground estimate of two people maybe three people that are in

1:04:45that unit but the reality might be six and so is there a mechanism to capture that or do you

1:04:52notice through your gis that oh this development actually on the ground is is consuming more capacity

1:05:02because i i'm concerned that it seems as though development the assumptions of this development

1:05:08generates this number of residents is uncoupled in this current housing market and i'm concerned

1:05:15about the risk on our our capacity and our water supply and i guess that's a planning question

1:05:28in answer to your question part of the allocation process the increase rigor process that we're

1:05:34looking to bring into place will essentially implement that check information collected

1:05:40through our planning staff at pre-consultation or site plan comes to identify the number of units

1:05:47from there we are dependent on planning information for population densities and looking to again from

1:05:53a per capita standpoint what we're seeing as consumption in various built forms within the city

1:06:01um so to date i think um again we've been planning um there may be changes in population density

1:06:09there's been a lot of study i know in the water efficiency world talking about how there's actually

1:06:13more people than anticipated in certain uh built types looking at student housing and things of

1:06:19that nature so um the exact assessment that you're speaking of will be something that we're doing

1:06:23moving forward as an advanced as a result of the new capacity allocation tracking process

1:06:30thank you that's helpful thanks gipson then kate

1:06:35through you worship i'm kidding um the uh i have a question question comment it's not a question

1:06:41it's a comment bill five um the new bill coming from the provincial government something i'm tracking

1:06:47in my professional position is the idea of an economic zone and the economic zone um if you

1:06:54look at how it will function may largely replace ministerial orders so which is you know a nice way

1:07:01of kind of hiding the ball on on a ministerial order but an economic zone will be an area where

1:07:07the provincial government has decided that the the local planning approvals the local um master

1:07:15plans the local provincial plans uh may be set aside for the benefit of the province so

1:07:21i'm thinking about energy generation at my world line of work but also um large-scale manufacturing

1:07:28and industrial processes so i again maybe just something for staff to be aware of the economic

1:07:35zone i believe will be a tool that the provincial government intends to use i think it's probably

1:07:40most related to the ring of fire uh and large energy production sites across the province but

1:07:45an economic zone is broadly defined as as an opportunity to create so um maybe something

1:07:52for staff to be tracking and seeing and looking at the lands within our city within the hand

1:07:57and business park and within the general area of um of where there's unknowns associated with the

1:08:03economic zone and if a large industrial manufacturer decides to come and they need a ton of water

1:08:09i'm trusting that the province will be there to support us and help us meet those demands

1:08:13because they're very hard to foresee imagine we will not have a lot of say if uh an economic

1:08:20zone is determined to be in our region so just to just as an FYI you're good with that staff

1:08:28yeah lots of thumbs up and heads nodding in agreement with what you're saying so uh kateen please

1:08:36thank you um i was just wondering if this is a mechanism with all the information that we have

1:08:42to potentially push the province for uh a change in build standards for areas that have

1:08:51restrictions on water like we do that have been asked to do growth like for example like rainwater

1:08:56systems make sure that those have to be included with all new builds more efficient water use

1:09:01systems within residences and things like that through the mayor to the counselor i mean what

1:09:13we're really looking at here is our existing capacity and how we allocate that going forward

1:09:19it would be great if the province was able to kind of look at what we were doing we were able

1:09:25to impact there and there's mechanisms for that however right now a real focus is just on that

1:09:31capacity current unallocated capacity growth and i think there is good work that's going to happen

1:09:38like i said mechanisms to to the province and look at whether it's gray water or are there

1:09:44other items through the blueprint wealth uh wealth strategy i think we'll see

1:09:52some feedback from the consultants that speak to some of that so i think that could also help

1:09:56drive some of that impact that you're looking for great thank you thanks and i think goer did

1:10:04you have your hand up okay go ahead thank you um thank you for the presentation i've really

1:10:11i've really uh appreciated learned a lot today i wanted to go back to the reserve capacity

1:10:17conversation i think there was a mention that we've had some um capacity that's been held

1:10:22projects approved back in 87 can you let me know what is that total amount of capacity that is being

1:10:29held by by those projects that have been approved are holding on to water capacity but have not

1:10:35been built in response to councillor goller's question um as part of the capacity allocation

1:10:45model that we're developing our planning staff are doing some detailed work now to quantify

1:10:51what those commitments are that work is ongoing perhaps we could promise to get back to council

1:10:56and writing with that information once it's ready anticipated in late june okay yeah that would be

1:11:02great thank you and with regards to the use it or lose it are other ontario municipalities or

1:11:08other canadian municipalities have they implemented that type of legislation already um yeah in

1:11:18response to your question um we as staff are part of the regional public works commissioners of

1:11:23ontario water and wastewater subcommittee um through that i know the regions of water loo and

1:11:30regions appeal have taken a leadership spot and will be interface have started interfacing with

1:11:35their communities around this policy certainly a regional approach what would versus what would

1:11:41be a single tier but we are in communication with those groups both through that group in the

1:11:46canadian water network um with all being tasked with this new task of designing a policy and

1:11:52ensuring that we're bringing forward a thorough tool so we are in communication but quite new

1:11:57to all parties based on the timing of release of bill 185 and what engagement could be done thus far

1:12:03okay okay so so at the moment no one in Canada has that that ability um and it hasn't been done

1:12:10in other provinces that's what i'm hearing okay pardon me so there are existing allocation policies

1:12:16both within water bylaws and other legislative tools on a municipal level in the province of

1:12:22ontario bill 185 had specifically noted that those past bylaws would not be seen to be able to

1:12:31effectively enable use it or lose it that municipal councils would need to pass a new bylaw so

1:12:37even those again who are looking to have well documented policies and processes

1:12:43are required to essentially revamp their policy if they have an interest to utilize the tools of bill

1:12:48185 okay okay i i really really appreciate that and i look forward to getting more information

1:12:54i think it's it's very exciting to be able to put a little bit of pressure on on on developers

1:13:00to to get things done on uh um you know on on a time frame thank you thank you worship

1:13:07thanks councillor Chew thank you i know you you're probably going to speak more to this when we

1:13:13have it in front of us for the capacity allocation tracking process but i'm wondering what kind of

1:13:20if there's going to be any merit based evaluation that can be outright articulated

1:13:28in the new policy framework uh just speaking on like geographic areas that cities heavily

1:13:36prioritizing for upfront infrastructure um infill affordable housing can you kind of speak to that

1:13:44and if there's well if there will be any mention of that uh of that sorts uh yes um no certainly

1:13:55here you councillor Chew i think we're going to take that one back just based on where the policy

1:13:59stands currently but um yeah we understand your interest and and we'll highlight that i guess when

1:14:04we come to develop our policy and bring it to council later this year yeah and i i just say that

1:14:10so when we have this policy in front of us it doesn't become a convoluted exercise for people

1:14:16trying to discern how this this is going to how they can incentivize their projects in line with

1:14:25uh how we are going to prioritize them when through this policy um yeah so that's kind of

1:14:34where i'm coming from thanks um with that i think i'll just ask my oh okay councillor billings

1:14:48i wanted to understand it's on page 12 of the slide deck and it's the existing capacity

1:14:54with loss of supply is that just the leakage uh no in this example it would deal with

1:15:09essentially what would be a infrastructure failure at our largest pump station and what

1:15:14essentially would be the remaining capacity available to service customers that would be

1:15:19the scenario that was evaluated under the water supply master plan okay so then how much how much

1:15:25are we leaking within the system as far as capacity uh at this time due to past investments in

1:15:35in water conservation and maintaining our system we maintain an industry best position it's a

1:15:43essentially there's a background factor based off of the pressure that you operate at the number of

1:15:48servicing connections which is a essentially comes to define a level of unavoidable loss

1:15:54from there we compare what is the current measured loss so ideally it's a factor of one

1:16:00your background loss is all you're losing the city of gulf our system is approximately at

1:16:07a factor of 1.3 we reduce that from a factor of over three um in the mid thousand so

1:16:16certainly part of servicing is ensuring that we're through the treatment process and delivery

1:16:21ensuring the efficient use of water um and we continue to do that um I'd say it's to the

1:16:26point now within our operations that if we see uh an increased um daily taking that's persisting

1:16:33that we have crews hitting the field and seeking to define where that leak is um that's quite a

1:16:39journey from essentially where we started in a significant amount of background leakage within

1:16:43our system okay so with the new infrastructure like when we put new pipes down and we're replacing

1:16:52very very old pipes does that not help yes certainly reconstruction is is a part of tackling the

1:17:01water loss challenge um as we look to infrastructure in the downtown I'm certainly very interested

1:17:06that as we come to renew that infrastructure what that means as far as a net water taking before and

1:17:11after okay and then I was just curious about another one on page 15 and I know it's under the

1:17:21long-term water supply but you've got noted in here Guelph Lake surface water yeah so

1:17:31we we know what the Guelph Lake is for so how can how can you use use that water so under the

1:17:40water supply master plan one of the alternatives that was evaluated was local surface water and

1:17:44Guelph Lake being the source um again under the the the process of staging what is most

1:17:53straightforward and affordable to what is more complex and more expensive in the plan

1:17:58the Guelph Lake supply falls outside of our recommendation for servicing beyond 2051

1:18:07certainly we'd have in looking at that source coming you know agricultural runoff and things

1:18:13of that nature would have some robust treatment processes um you know chemical investments

1:18:20energy investments and beyond that we're seeing it as to what would be a seasonal source that we

1:18:25would then come to bank and utilize in high demand time so at this point it's not part of our plan

1:18:32based off of the cost per cubic meter and um some of the challenges of only having a seasonal water

1:18:38source uh again through future iterations the water supply master plan and a heightened target

1:18:45this may become part of our mix but I think speaks to the challenge of

1:18:49what our local water resources within 10 kilometers of the city and you know the

1:18:54planning directions of council provided to this time okay and then so when always when I think of

1:19:02water you know water quality water quantity this is about quantity capacity so I want to switch to

1:19:08quality with respect to the new wells coming on that will be coming on and all the testing that

1:19:14you've done are we finding the quality of the water um to be just as good like and I'm talking

1:19:20phosphorus chloride so on and so forth and you know the contaminants so I was just wondering

1:19:24is the quality of water going to remain yes um so some of the test wells that I had

1:19:33highlighted through my presentation Guelph South uh Logan test well um and I guess Clive we know

1:19:42there isn't an existing natural occurring aesthetic issue with sulfides iron and manganese but

1:19:47both Logan and Guelph South thus far from a quality perspective have shown very good water quality

1:19:54and treatment in line with what we're doing with other other municipal wells at this time so

1:19:59promising from that side of things as we get it later into the water supply master plan

1:20:04um you know we do have offline wells that are uh offline due to uh contamination from

1:20:12neighboring properties we have approached the province and seeking their support in

1:20:18helping to clean up these sources um the province at that time had said it wasn't in their immediate

1:20:24horizon to do that work um so that'll be something that we continue to follow up in the fact that

1:20:29we believe that there is a need for provincial intervention here and um essentially these costs

1:20:34aren't meeting our right pairs at the end of the day to clean up um some of the challenges we're

1:20:38seeing so are we looking and asking the province for 100 percent then uh through the water supply

1:20:46master plan we had identified again that um you know we have challenges in meeting the growth target

1:20:54and we wanted provincial help the province had said it was you know over 10 years until they were

1:20:58going to look at the system so we had faith looked at this solution so again we had phased the

1:21:03recommendations of the water supply master plan accordingly um again we'll continue to follow up

1:21:08through those iterations with hopes that they're stepping to the plate and addressing the source

1:21:11of contamination in this instance okay and then last question again quality it's the wastewater plant

1:21:18and the amount of money that we're putting in um which it sounds like this is a good thing however

1:21:24again quality output phosphorus nitrogen like is it going to be reducing what we're putting into the

1:21:30river thanks for the question cal sir billings uh yes in short um we we have to uh build and expand

1:21:43in order to we keep uh continue to meet and exceed the the limits that the ministry requires us

1:21:49to discharge into speed river as we know it's a sensitive small receiving stream um as you see

1:21:55in the wastewater field we don't solution is not dilution for guelph so we have to have uh incredible

1:22:00treatment upstream before discharging and the investment we're placing is going to have an

1:22:05influence to do that so we might get back to the the gold star instead of the bronze it's a fine

1:22:13line between gold and bronze but we always aim for gold okay thanks you wish you okay well thanks

1:22:23my questions i hope are very quick just to close us off here um i mean i think you mentioned like a

1:22:30couple of our wells are offline one of them was due to iron and things like that and then i thought i

1:22:39thought i heard you say and there's a second one that might have contamination from surrounding

1:22:45like neighboring problems so like are the taxpayers responsible to clean that up or is like is there

1:22:54an ongoing discussion with the source of that contamination i just just curious like what's

1:23:02what's happening there uh yeah in response to your question um again through the water supply

1:23:09master plan we'd engage the province um there are ongoing meetings from a um brownfields management

1:23:16perspective with the province where again we continue to raise these uh challenges um at this

1:23:23point again our pursuit of provincial support has been around um you know again seeking provincial

1:23:31dollars and and capacity to move these things ahead and the fact that it's challenging as a

1:23:36neighboring landowner to motivate the actions that we need and again um concern over as you're

1:23:42talking about equity and in dealing with this solution okay well maybe this is an advocacy piece

1:23:51maybe i need to pick up the phone or something right or or collectively us not just me so

1:23:57okay maybe you could talk me about that a bit more okay um and then my last question was

1:24:06just one second get a coffee excuse me um short term versus long term infrastructure that we're

1:24:17putting in the ground um i thought i heard you say something uh one of you sorry about like

1:24:24speed like you're doing a little bit of an upgrade on speed veil to sort of unlock some more capacity

1:24:29there um and that's fine with me like no no i'm not trying to push back on any of that at all

1:24:34but is there is there like a like a business case that you guys and the planning staff always look

1:24:40through that's like well we could do these two short term projects but it will only gain us

1:24:48x amount of homes versus doing a larger long term project that might equal three

1:24:56short term costs but this longer term one is going to open up 2000 homes or something like that like

1:25:03how do you how do you address how do you filter that and address that issue um so

1:25:16to you mr mayor so when we're looking at all of our capital projects and when we're trying to

1:25:20prioritize our infrastructure um where we're going to put the infrastructure to enable growth

1:25:27that it changes all the time so when you have legislation that comes in when developers want

1:25:33to move a little bit quicker um so when we go through our prioritization for our budget every

1:25:38year we're always looking to make sure as we're looking through in the 10 years that what we are

1:25:43spending our money on is going to give us our biggest bang for our buck in terms of of um

1:25:49where the growth is going to be so um there's only there's only so much money to spend um there is

1:25:57only so much work you can do in a certain amount of time so we're always trying to balance that

1:26:01with where we put the infrastructure um with when the developers are going to be ready there's no use

1:26:08in us putting for instance big pipes down the road if the developers along those areas are not

1:26:13going to be ready so we're always talking to the developers to figure out what what is best to

1:26:18prioritize in terms of what we put forward in the budget and then also our our ability to be able

1:26:24to deliver that as well from a capacity point of view yeah for sure so i guess there's a comment

1:26:30and you can nod if you if you agree i know that you've been doing that and you've been helping me

1:26:37in council with that for that budget allocation issue every year so we we appreciate that but

1:26:42with this use it or lose it i would almost feel like that is going to be a huge tool for determining

1:26:49what we actually put in the budget and so is there and then this is maybe a takeaway for when

1:26:56this policy comes back but is there some sort of like an agreement that we could have with developers

1:27:03that's always lined up prior to the budget approval right so it's like yeah you are going to build

1:27:10okay then we will we will put the the money here um so it's like a chicken and egg sort of thing

1:27:19right i want i want the confirmation from the developer that they're actually going to go ahead

1:27:23with something before we actually spend the money so is that something you're is that maybe how it

1:27:29might work when this policy comes back because i see it's so aligned to budget now um to you mr

1:27:35mayor so yes so we we we do that informally now anyway um as we're talking to you know where the

1:27:42growth is going to be but certainly what this tool allows us to do is to formalize that a little bit

1:27:48more and get some agreement from the various developers on on when the timing is going to be

1:27:55the struggle is is as you see in the last couple of years things change so three years ago you may

1:28:01have had a developer who says i'm going to be building in in 2025 for sure and then here we are

1:28:08and things don't make sense anymore from a financial point of view from a tariff point of view

1:28:13there's all kinds of things that can that can change the economic environment where that

1:28:18doesn't make sense anymore so as we go through making this policy we do have to keep that in mind

1:28:23too if a deadline's coming up and it just i can't build i can't afford it um but i'm i'm going to be

1:28:30there when um when things turn around that those are all the things we're going to have to take

1:28:34into account when we make our decisions on um you know where we allocate the when we do the water

1:28:40allocation and when we keep it when we extend it all that kind of thing okay oh that makes sense

1:28:45and that probably relates to what you said christ about making it fair so yeah that's fair okay

1:28:52so my last comment is just to say this um i remember when i was a counselor

1:29:00really trying to get my head around the whole conservation uh piece with the water

1:29:05and uh i probably asked way too many questions then um but uh you know it had started you know

1:29:12and i want to give credit where credit's always do like with the previous administration that that

1:29:17conservation you know focused started even before i was a counselor and uh like it's been consistently

1:29:28from data and showing how how it's worked like exactly what counselor downer said um so

1:29:36i think that's an important takeaway for budget as well for myself and for counsel that

1:29:42the continuation of some of the programs education conservation like it's obviously

1:29:49shown over many many years that it works i think we need to continue to have that discussion at

1:29:54budget time that we're not um it meant there might be new ways of doing it cheaper i like that but

1:30:00uh but but we we have to maintain that um and the final thing i would just say is i've just always

1:30:07been like so impressed i feel like look i you know we adore all staff here of course but

1:30:16personally i've been just beyond impressed with any everyone in water everyone whether it's

1:30:22people going uh two in the morning to fix a broken main on a street like the ones that do customer

1:30:28service to you guys have done the the the work here um today uh uh peter basato basato yeah

1:30:40peter basato i learned like when he came up to the microphone and spoke like i mean counsel was

1:30:46just silent and counsel would just be like whatever peter says you know like because there's this

1:30:52authenticity and authority that comes from all of you when you step up to the microphone

1:30:58and you say what you're doing and you say what you need and what you're working on like it's just

1:31:04i have such comfort in everything that that you do uh and uh i just yeah so just thank you very

1:31:12much i've always i've always learned a lot over the years and i just continue to learn and uh

1:31:18we're very fortunate in the city to have like literally the experts here that are that are

1:31:22managing and and helping us uh wade through these waters i just made a joke there there you go

1:31:29thank you linda for laughing i appreciate that so uh uh yeah so i just want to say say that very

1:31:35publicly thank you very much for what you and everyone behind the scenes does uh we it doesn't

1:31:40go unnoticed by anybody so thank you okay well um there's nothing further so can i have a motion

1:31:48just to receive the uh yeah do you mind if i just do that uh steven yep

1:31:55motion to receive the the workshop presentation linda and uh ken will move in second that and

1:32:02i'll call the vote for that is anyone against that nobody and how about uh was you wanted to

1:32:10say something christa no okay sorry uh i don't have my glasses on so i couldn't see uh motion to

1:32:16adjourn i'm gonna go uh uh karan tonight and uh galler for seconding that okay is anyone against

1:32:25adjournment okay nobody have a good night go leave scope