Committee of the Whole

1:37All right, I'd like to call the committee meeting for November to order, please. It is November the 5th 2024. It's 1 30 in the afternoon. Thank you for joining us

1:48Right off the top our agenda does state that we're looking to move into a closed session. It's titled municipal franchise agreement with Enbridge gas Inc.

1:59And that's under section 2392 F of the municipal act regarding advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege, including communications necessary for that purpose.

2:11Before I look to call a vote to go in camera on that item. Is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof for the closed item?

2:20I don't hear or see anybody so would someone be willing to move that for me to move into close? Okay billings and alts and anything further on that item?

2:34Not hearing anything I'll call the vote to go into close is anyone against that?

2:39No one is against that so that is unanimous so we will be moving into a closed session after that is done. I as usual I'll come back out give a high level summary.

2:51Just to let everyone know if there was any direction or anything else done in camera and then we will get going on our open part of the agenda.

3:01I do see a lot of people have arrived already.

3:06And I just want to make sure that you're all aware that the open part of the agenda does not start till two o'clock.

3:14Okay, so I just wanted to make sure if you wanted to like go grab a coffee or or whatever that you are in the know now that you didn't like to sit here for almost an hour. Okay.

3:24Did you have a quick question? Sure.

3:25Sure. No, because the good question because the agenda states publicly it's two o'clock we have to start at two so even if we came back out 10 minutes later we still have to start at that too.

3:42Okay, thank you. You can ask me a question in a second over here. Okay.

3:46All right, everyone. Thank you so much for waiting as was discussed earlier a council went into a closed session and it was under the title on the open agenda municipal franchise agreement with Enbridge Enbridge gas Inc.

36:03And there was no decisions made at all in camera just so everyone knows it was just receiving information for council in regards to legal advice that was solicitor client privilege including communications necessary for that purpose.

36:19No decisions as I said were made at all we just received information and that's why we're back out here ready to start now with the with the open session.

36:27So to call the open session to order let's start if we can by standing and recognizing our national anthem.

36:36Thank you. And as we continue just a moment of a silent reflection.

38:25Great. Thank you. And now our territorial acknowledgement as we gather let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work here in Guelph a city that's built over rich indigenous histories.

38:35We're guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for the land the people who live here today and the generations to come.

38:43If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation we should take pause and we should make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

38:52This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time but more specifically the Aniwanderok and the Hone Shone.

39:01This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation and Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track which is part of a long established traditional hunting grounds for the six nations of the Grand River.

39:16Many First Nations Inuit and Métis peoples who have come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today.

39:23Thank you so much. With that we are now into disclosure of any pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof for the items on the agenda today.

39:36I'm hearing and seeing none so consider that matter closed.

39:40Jumping right now into several staff recognitions we're always very happy to be able to let the city know the good stuff that's happening here with our staff and they should be acknowledged we have several of them.

39:55I'm going to turn it over to Councillor Klassen who's actually going to be reading and acknowledging our staff today in this section of the agenda and then actually we'll be taking over as chair in the upcoming items after that.

40:11So over to you Councillor Klassen.

40:14Yes thank you Mr Mayor. On behalf of Council it's my pleasure to recognize city staff on their recent awards and achievements.

40:23So I've got four here and I just want to pause and say that you know it's nice to take a minute to recognize staff and to hear some of the great things that are being done.

40:34So the first one the city received the prestigious energy management inside award by the clean energy ministerial for being the first Canadian municipality to certify the global best of class ISO 50,001 energy management system standard.

40:50By establishing this framework and continuing to improve the way it uses and conserves energy, the city has achieved a significant reduction in energy consumption, energy cost and greenhouse gas emissions from municipal operations.

41:06So a few of those highlights are energy performance improved with an 8% reduction in total energy consumption in 2023 versus 2022 with a 16% reduction in total energy consumption in 2023 versus 2018 which was the baseline period.

41:25There was a total cost savings of nearly $235,000 which was realized for the period of 2023 versus 2022 with cumulative energy cost savings of more than 4.2 million over the period from 2019 to 2023 with each year compared against the 2018 baseline year.

41:47There was also a total energy savings of 12,064 megawatt hours which is enough energy to power 480 homes a year in 2023 versus 2022.

41:58Cumulative energy savings of 84,219 megawatt hours was realized over the period from 2019 to 2023 with each year compared to the 2018 baseline year.

42:11Our total CO2 emission reductions were 702 metric tons in 2023 versus 2022, a cumulative reduction of 6,164 metric tons in 2019 to 2023 versus that baseline year of 2018.

42:29So in 2023, the city became the first municipality in Canada to be certified under the ISO 5001 standard for its corporate wide energy management system.

42:40So congratulations to Brian Hoyen, Tio Joseph, Phil Kekel, Robert Page, Deepa Uthren, Karlyn Sweeney, Ante Vilco and Elisa Wieb in our facilities and energy management department as well as DCAO Jane Holmes who is our DCAO of infrastructure development and environment for your contributions in this tremendous achievement.

43:07Let's give them a round of applause.

43:15All right, I got a few more here.

43:16So next up is the recognition of Amber Breyer who's up there on the screen, the Guelph Junction Railways which is the GJR safety officer for completing the Canadian Rail Operating Rules Certification and Track Inspection Guidelines Certification.

43:33All employees in Canada participating in activities related to the operation of trains, main track switches and track maintenance must obtain certification in the Canadian Rail Operating Rules.

43:43It offers fundamental knowledge and comprehension of rail terms, regulations and specific guidelines.

43:49Safety and the readiness to comply with the regulations are crucial when carrying out rail responsibilities.

43:56The certification for track inspection guidelines covers regulations for inspecting track in accordance with the Transport Canada Railway Track Safety Rules.

44:04It recognizes the components of track geometry, processes for examining track and necessary steps for any track irregularities.

44:13Congratulations to Amber for her ongoing achievements in enhancing the safety and expansion of GJR.

44:20GJR has experienced tremendous growth in the past 10 years.

44:24Amber's strong emphasis on the safety positions, GJR and the city favorably for both current and future increases in freight and population.

44:34Congratulations Amber.

44:36Next I'm pleased to recognize Lucas Malamy, Planner 2 Policy and Ri Tong, Planner 2 Site Plan, who both completed their exams and received their designation as registered professional planners

44:55with the Ontario Professional Planners Institute and the Canadian Institute Planners.

44:59Congratulations Lucas and Ri.

45:02And finally, it's my pleasure to recognize Sheema Alani, Traffic Signal Technologist 2 on completing the requirements to earn the Certified Engineering Technologist Exignation from the Ontario Association of Certified Engineering Technicians and Technologists.

45:23This designation requires a high level of competence and professionalism in the engineering technology field and the demonstration of a strong commitment to upholding the highest standards of practice and expertise in your industry.

45:36Congratulations on this achievement and continuing your professional development Sheema.

45:45And we'll just step down to the screen there and take a couple photos.

49:31Okay, good afternoon everybody. My name is Carly Claussen. I'm the vice chair of Infrastructure Development and Environment.

49:37And we've got two items for discussion this afternoon. We're going to start off with the municipal franchise agreement with Enbridge Gas. We have nine delegations.

49:47And then we're going to get a blue box update from staff.

49:51So to get things started, I'm just going to invite the, got my list.

49:58The first delegate to the podium, who's here with us in person, Samantha Hicks.

50:04You're Michael. We muted at five minutes.

50:16Oh, I'm sorry.

50:17Yeah, that was nice.

50:34Thank you, Samantha. Just a reminder, you've got five minutes and you'll get a reminder of the 30s when you have 30 seconds left. You'll hear a chime and then you'll be muted at five.

50:44Yep. Okay.

50:45Awesome. All right. Thanks.

50:46Over to you.

50:47Okay.

50:48Hi, everyone. I'm Samantha Hicks. And I first want to thank this land and this earth.

50:55And I want to thank you all for your service. And thank you, Councillor Kerron, for the motion that you have put forth. And I want to say that I fully support your motion. And I ask that everyone that all of you supports the motion that you had put forth.

51:14I just want to thank all the delegates. And I ask that you to ask for all of you to listen and to listen deeply to all of our delegations.

51:24What a wonderful opportunity that is before us, before you, our decision makers, a wonderful opportunity to stand up for justice, to stand up for what is fair, to stand up for the interests of the people of Guelph and this land.

51:42I am a mom of two young children and I am deeply concerned about their futures. I am also a social worker and work with folks of all ages, many of whom are carrying a profound concern and grief about the climate and about their future.

52:00We are facing a climate emergency. Fossil fuels cause climate change. It's a fact, the truth. And we all need to be saying and hearing fossil fuels cause climate change regularly so that folks can be lifted out of denial, so that our feelings of grief can be heard.

52:26So that fossil fuel elites can be held accountable and so that change can happen. Who benefits from resigning this franchise agreement? Ultimately, it is the fossil fuel industry elites who benefit.

52:47In the last quarter alone, Enbridge's profits were over $1 billion. In the last quarter alone, double the amount from the previous year of that same quarter. Just oppose that with the cost of living crisis that people are facing.

53:08If you were to re-sign this franchise agreement, you would be locking the city of Guelph into a bad deal for Guelph residents for 20 years. You would be choosing to continue to allow Enbridge to pay very little for the vast benefit they get.

53:28And you would be hurting yourself, your families, us, our families, our community, this land, and future generations.

53:41I recognize that negotiating with this private fossil fuel giant creates more work for counselors and staff, but it will be worth it. It is the right thing to do, given the climate emergency and cost of living crisis that we are facing.

54:06You have a choice and can support Councillor Kerron's motion and put the best interest of the people of Guelph and this land first. Be a leader. Challenge the status quo. Be an example to other municipalities.

54:23Imagine the possibilities. Think about the positive ripple effects for all of us, one of which could be a new revenue stream that can go to our critical programs and services.

54:38Enbridge elites can take a little bit of their billions of dollars in profit and share their wealth.

54:45It's not right that we hardworking Ontarians are giving Enbridge elites a free ride in this province and I am outraged about this.

54:56What is your plan to deal with the most polluting sector in this country, the oil and gas sector?

55:05The most polluting sector in the country is subject to the fewest climate policies in Canada. Hold the elites of this industry accountable.

55:16The time is now to accelerate the transition away from fossil fuels.

55:21And this is a step. You have power. You have the opportunity to speak up to fossil fuel giants and to the province of Ontario.

55:31Act in the best interest of Ontarians and this land. Support Councillor Kerron's motion. We can be like other provinces where the oil and gas companies pay the municipality for the land that they are using. Take a stand and do the next right thing.

55:47Thank you for your delegation. Very timely.

55:52Are there any questions from my council colleagues here? Is there any questions?

55:59Anyone on the screen? No. No one. But thank you.

56:03Okay. Morgan Dandy, you are up and then on deck is David Douglas.

56:09Good afternoon, Committee of the Whole.

56:30I would not have chosen to stand here and ask that today's Enbridge question is either deferred or hope that there are some motions pending for Guelph to be able to follow Toronto and Ottawa in asking the province to move into the 21st century.

56:51I hope this committee will oppose locking this municipality in for another 20 years of mandated property taxpayer funded subsidies to fossil gas giant Enbridge.

57:04And let's be clear. Renters are property taxpayers too.

57:0820 years ago, I would have supported the contract renewal. I just started using my newly installed natural gas barbecue.

57:2020 years ago, my dad was still alive and his pension was being paid by Petra Canada.

57:28He'd started working for the British Petroleum Refinery in Oakville when I was five years old and he retired from there with a full pension at age 65.

57:39Heck, I might have even supported this contract renewal 10 years ago when my mother was living in Fort McMurray working for Suncor.

57:49But I'm not the same person I was 20 years ago or even 10 years ago.

57:54And this isn't the same council from back then either. We all know better. Let's do better.

58:02Imagine, just imagine what could be achieved for affordability for transit, including being able to pay our transit workers what they're worth for housing, arts and culture, tourism, parks and retrofitting our municipal buildings to be able to meet our 100 RE and race to zero targets.

58:30Way sooner than we can right now.

58:34If only Enbridge were to pay their actual costs instead of the property taxpayer.

58:42I hope this committee will at the very least defer this question until the proposed no free ride for fossil fuels act introduced by introduced to the legislature yesterday by our MPP Mike Schreiner has at least past second reading.

58:59I believe that this council owes it to every property taxpayer in Guelph to work to remove our subsidy, which contributed to the 2.3 billion in profit that Enbridge amassed in the last quarter alone.

59:16Staff has come to committee of the whole with the only recommendation that current rules will allow them to present.

59:25Council has demonstrated they will rewrite staff recommendations and I truly hope this will be another council rewrite.

59:34The power to start a change for affordability for the property taxpayer is in your hands today. Thank you.

59:45Thank you, Morgan. Any questions for the delegate? No, okay. Thank you. David Douglas, you're you're next. And after David is Indigo Moran and Abigail Walton. Thank you, David. I think you know the drill, right?

1:00:09Thank you. Thank you, members of council for this opportunity.

1:00:14I think one of the most vexatious aspects of this matter is that Guelph residents through our duly elective representatives are in effect subsidizing a fossil fuel company.

1:00:26That alone must elicit a level of disgust from city council and everyone in the community. In some respects, it has to be a no brainer.

1:00:38What we do about this, but it gets worse. City council is being directed by the province to record a free pass to Enbridge for privileged almost cost free commercial activities in our community.

1:00:52This for a major rich fossil fuel corporation. And as you've just heard, one that's hardly had a tough year.

1:01:03Further, the Guelph taxpayer is being asked to continue picking up the tab directly for some of Enbridge's infrastructure projects in the community.

1:01:15And yet there's more beyond the issue of the franchise. City council is at risk of facilitating activities in this community that are contrary to our country's commitments under the Paris agreement of 2015.

1:01:32And we just witnessed the national anthem.

1:01:36And I might say contrary to our community's growing concerns with their and their children's safety in this climate crisis.

1:01:47And there's still more. Continuing association with this corporation is contrary to the city's collaborative commitment under the Guelph community plan.

1:01:57I can speak to this because through the Guelph climate action network or G-CAN, I am intimately involved in the refinement of this plan.

1:02:08Our collective community plan states that in Guelph, quote, development occurs in harmony with the natural environment, unquote, hardly the way with Enbridge.

1:02:22Your own public consultations and outreach on this matter have indicated that 97% of people in our community feel that environment, water and waste was the most important focus for the next 10 years for future generations in this community.

1:02:41One of our collective goals states, quote, climate change infrastructure is in place to create a resilient city with Enbridge as company. We're going in the opposite direction.

1:02:59In effect, installing soon-to-be stranded assets for a mid-20th century economy, which will contribute to deadly outcomes in a soon-to-be tomorrow, is hardly the way to go.

1:03:18For my community, for our community, and for the city. You, we are in a very bad deal with an unsavory and unhealthy interloper in our community.

1:03:32I would therefore strongly encourage Council to work with their colleagues in AMO and elsewhere and get this dreadful arrangement with Enbridge out of the way.

1:03:43And then work with our community to get them and other fossil fuel interests out of our community. Thank you.

1:03:52Thank you, David. Any questions for the delegate? No? Okay. Thank you.

1:04:00Thank you.

1:04:01We're looking to go to Indigo Moran and Abigail Walton. And next up will be Gina Lamel.

1:04:09Gina, you're here.

1:04:11Thanks.

1:04:12Thank you. Go ahead.

1:04:40Good day, Mr. Mayor, City Councilors and fellow delegates. My name is Abigail Walton and my name is Indigo Moran.

1:04:47Thank you very much for having us here today.

1:04:51The opportunity that this motion presents to the City of Guelph is one that we won't get for another 20 years.

1:04:57Right now, we are both 17. In 20 years, we will be 37.

1:05:03By the time we are 37, if we don't do anything, natural disasters and storms will intensify and we will be facing ecological collapse.

1:05:12It will also be impossible to afford basic necessities such as housing and food.

1:05:17These will be the problems at the forefront of our minds when we should be focusing on things like raising a family and positively contributing to our community.

1:05:26Maintaining our current franchise agreement with Enbridge is both unsustainable and unjust.

1:05:34Currently, Guelph is very far off track from meeting our 2050 emissions targets.

1:05:39And with funding being cut from many environmental projects next year, we are getting farther away from these targets by the minute.

1:05:46If we continue to subsidize Enbridge, we will have to work overtime to compensate for greenhouse gas emissions that we could have prevented by ending our endorsement of this company that made 1.3 billion in their third quarter alone.

1:06:01Since these costs of the subsidy are on the city and its taxpayers, instead of being on Enbridge, we are losing revenue.

1:06:10That money could be used for environmental infrastructure or local projects that could fight climate change or anything that benefits our community rather than benefiting a natural gas company with an amount monopoly on home energy.

1:06:24The revenue could also be used to benefit our locals by lowering property taxes.

1:06:29As someone who will soon be transitioning to living on my own, I, along with many other teenagers, could really use that reduction when trying to pay for basic utilities as housing costs are continuing to increase.

1:06:43This would also encourage homeowners to pursue greener alternatives for energy like heat pumps if we refuse to endorse this methane giant.

1:06:53When the Guelph and Greater Wellington community found out how little Nestle pays to use local groundwater, there was an outrage.

1:07:01How do you think these same sedisons would feel if they knew that Enbridge is virtually operating in much the same way?

1:07:09How would they feel knowing that all of you had an opportunity to change that and you ignored it for convenience's sake?

1:07:17Land is a precious thing. Don't give it to a natural gas company for free.

1:07:22Support Councillor Caron's motion, amend section 9. By doing so, you'll show those of us who are worried about the climate crisis where you stand.

1:07:30Supporting this motion and working now to ensure billion-dollar companies such as Enbridge don't get a free ride is going to be worth the effort in the long run, as Indigo said.

1:07:42This is not something any councillor should be tossing to the side. Making this effort now will take us as a city another step in the right direction by saving millions of dollars to go towards building a greener and more affordable place to live.

1:07:56It might feel like we won't get anywhere with Enbridge, but that's only true because no one does nothing to act.

1:08:03This motion would bring about change in the legislature that would bring money out of the multi-billion dollar company's pockets and into our municipality by charging Enbridge for the public land that their infrastructure utilizes.

1:08:18The $8 million could be put towards lowering property taxes, helping to fix the housing crisis, and city services such as sustainable infrastructure and transport.

1:08:29This $8 million could be put towards the city's $15 million in budget cuts, mainly to the environmental sector.

1:08:38Instead of giving Enbridge a free ride on taxpayer dollars for another 20 years, we can hold them accountable instead.

1:08:47I am worried about my future and the future of those in the next generations.

1:08:52Every decision we make in our world today should be reflective of what they will have to live through and what I will have to live through.

1:09:00Those decisions start right here. The alarm bells of the climate emergency are sounding, and as a society, we need to stop tuning them out.

1:09:09The consequences of corporate greed and resulting climate change are becoming even more apparent in our daily lives.

1:09:16We need to focus as a community on living as stewards of the land. This land is a gift to us, and we should be living in harmony with it.

1:09:25Polluting it with gas pipelines and greenhouse gas emissions is not the answer.

1:09:32The least we can do is hold the corporations responsible for this accountable, and not give them a free ride on taxpayers via subsidies.

1:09:41By supporting this motion, we can ensure that Enbridge paves their own way while simultaneously investing in future generations.

1:09:50Thank you for your delegation.

1:09:53I want to say thank you for coming out.

1:09:57It is inspirational to see the next generation at the podium.

1:10:01I can speak for my council colleagues and myself when we say thanks for coming out and bringing your words forward.

1:10:08I will look at my council colleagues for questions.

1:10:11Thank you very much.

1:10:14Next up is Gina Lamel.

1:10:19After that, we will be via video.

1:10:26Thank you, Gina.

1:10:29Mr. Mayor, members of council and city staff, good afternoon.

1:10:34My name is Gina Lamel and I am a lifelong resident of Guelph and chair of the Guelph chapter of seniors for climate action now.

1:10:43We are a Canadian group of older adults acting to address the climate emergency and protect the planet for future generations.

1:10:51Our Guelph chapter organized the rally of 150 people here at City Hall on October 1.

1:10:58Over 6,300 people attended over 76 events organized across the country that day.

1:11:06Several members of our local group are in the audience.

1:11:09We would like to congratulate the city on its recognition for leadership and climate action that we understand has been awarded by the global covenant of mayors for climate and energy or GCOM.

1:11:21But we are here to point out that this climate and energy covenant will be directly undermined by the city's planned renewal of its franchise agreement with Enbridge.

1:11:31An agreement that will see the citizens of Guelph continue to shoulder Enbridge's infrastructure costs and sacrifice the investments that are so desperately needed to address and harness the catastrophic effects of the climate emergency.

1:11:47Specifically, GCOM cities have a goal of providing increased access to renewable clean energy.

1:11:55Subsidizing Enbridge is subsidizing oil and gas.

1:11:59These fuels are neither renewable nor clean and they are the primary cause of climate change, devastating climate events and premature deaths.

1:12:09GCOM cities have committed to promoting initiatives and best practices that accelerate the fight against climate change.

1:12:17Subsidizing Enbridge is not a best climate change practice.

1:12:23GCOM cities have also committed to ensuring communities live in healthy environments.

1:12:29Subsidizing Enbridge while proposing significant cuts to environmental investments as our proposed in Guelph's 2025 budget are not consistent with building healthy environments.

1:12:42GCOM confirms that lower income cities, citizens rather, are disproportionately impacted by spiraling fuel costs.

1:12:51The 20-year revenue horizon of the Enbridge agreement will do just that.

1:12:57As higher income consumers shift to clean technologies, lower income Guelph's citizens unable to make the transition will end up paying more and more to fund Enbridge's fossil gas system.

1:13:11Those left to pay will be those who are at least able to pay.

1:13:16Guelph's community greenhouse gas emissions are up 8% compared to 2021.

1:13:22This is clear evidence that we need to urgently change our relationship with oil and gas and transition to clean energy.

1:13:30Admittedly, Enbridge needs to be a part of the transition plan, but our continued subsidization of their use of and liberal access to our city's property does not.

1:13:40For these reasons, we're asking the city to stop subsidizing Enbridge, to start charging them user fees and avoid locking us into an extended relationship with them,

1:13:51especially for the next critical 20-year period where transitioning to clean renewable energy is so urgent.

1:13:58The city says fiscal balancing of the 2025 proposed budget has led to many tough decisions balancing affordability of taxes and user fees with addressing the challenges the community is facing.

1:14:11We say that this balancing must include the balancing of user fees with Enbridge.

1:14:16To not charge them flies in the face of the city's shared climate covenant and in the face of what is fair and equitable.

1:14:25The biggest challenge this community, our country, and our planet is facing is the climate emergency. It is the defining issue of our time.

1:14:35Economics, budgets, housing, and politics will all fall to the wayside if we don't have a healthy planet on which to live.

1:14:43It makes no sense that those contributing to the climate crisis get a free pass or free access to city services or property.

1:14:52Finally, GCOM municipal governments accelerate ambitious, measurable climate and energy initiatives that lead to low emission and climate resilient future.

1:15:04The city should make a tough decision to hold itself accountable to this GCOM commitment and use it to guide its decision making.

1:15:12If it did, the agreement with Enbridge would look very different.

1:15:16The citizens of Guelph or any city for that matter should not be expected to subsidize Enbridge, one of the largest dealers of fossil oil and gas, the burning of which is the most significant cause of the climate emergency.

1:15:30Thank you, Gina. I've got a question for you from Councillor Orr work.

1:15:37Thank you, Chair Colson.

1:15:39Through you to Ms. Lamelle, thanks so much for your delegation and the work that Scand does in the community.

1:15:45Just so that we're all on the same page in terms of the ask today and the expectations, right?

1:15:51I just want to be clear that I'm wondering, are you aware that under Section 9 of the Municipal Act, the city cannot currently charge those user fees?

1:16:02That's right. We have that understanding, but we're also aware that Mike Schreiner has proposed a bill that would perhaps open that conversation and change that agreement.

1:16:12Absolutely. I just want to make sure that there isn't an expectation that the city can do this without a number of regulatory changes at the province.

1:16:22So I just want to get on the same page. It's not lack of intent or willingness, but currently we don't have any sort of legislative authority to do that.

1:16:30Well, fingers crossed, things might change in that area.

1:16:32Okay. Just want to validate that everybody's understanding. Thanks.

1:16:38Thank you, and thank you, Gina.

1:16:41We don't have our next delegate, Chuck Castillo, so I'm going to ask John Lawson, who I believe is in here in person. Hello, John. Thanks for coming down.

1:16:53And then next up will be Jiris Valeriat. Did I get that right? Jiris. Jiris. Okay. Thank you.

1:17:02All right. Over to you, John.

1:17:05Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor and city councillors. It's great to be here today.

1:17:10Okay. Wearing our green scan t-shirts just up from my colleague, Gina. I'm following up. I'm also part of seniors for climate action now.

1:17:23The name says everything that we are seniors, but we want action.

1:17:29And we want action on a very vital, as you know, important subject of climate change.

1:17:36And our message is really, really simple. It's burning fossil fuels is driving this climate crisis.

1:17:44And we need to quit that fossil fuel addiction.

1:17:50And sadly, this agreement that you as a city looks like it's forced to sign is fueling, continuing to fuel that addiction, not just for a little while.

1:18:05But for 20 years. And this.

1:18:12It's we need to quit the, this addiction now.

1:18:17And it seems that this.

1:18:20Enbridge contract is at the very time when there are new.

1:18:28Sorry, I'm getting mixed up here where I am.

1:18:31This council knows that.

1:18:36That the most that the Ontario energy board recognized that transitions were coming in the energy field in regards to Enbridge.

1:18:46And it spoke of trying to protect consumers with the changes that that they saw coming with alternatives.

1:18:55Unfortunately, the Ford government shut that down.

1:18:59And and we're stuck with Enbridge.

1:19:04But now you as a city have some decisions to make.

1:19:10And we're saying that.

1:19:13We can't sign away our future for the next 20 years.

1:19:18There's got to be a different way. Some of us who are seniors won't live.

1:19:24Or another 20 years, we won't see this, but our children certainly will.

1:19:29And they'll be asking us, or they'll be asking whoever you are still standing then.

1:19:36What were you thinking about when you signed on for 20 years?

1:19:42It seems to me that you need to find some creative ways to push back.

1:19:48And yes, you counsel need not go gentle into that good night.

1:19:54You have to signal somehow your resistance.

1:19:57And I'm not a lawyer and I don't know how you're going to do that or how what the options are of doing that.

1:20:03But 20 years way too long, maybe 10 years.

1:20:07No, even better, maybe five years.

1:20:10Send a signal to Enbridge and send a signal to others that this has to change.

1:20:17And we will not lock in our kids into 20 years of problems and an unhealthy environment.

1:20:27And as we've already heard, working with our MPP, Mike Shreiner,

1:20:33working with all other municipalities who I already believe are starting to push back on this.

1:20:39That seems to me the way forward to stop the fossil fuel subsidy.

1:20:46Our children and grandchildren will thank you and breathe easier if we do.

1:20:54Thank you very much.

1:20:56Thank you very much for your delegation, John.

1:20:59Do we have any questions?

1:21:01And I don't see any hands up, but thank you very much for coming out and preparing your delegation.

1:21:06We have gyrus.

1:21:10Gyrus, correct.

1:21:13Sorry, my apologies.

1:21:15Gyrus Valeriat, you're up next.

1:21:20And then on deck we have Evan Ferrari.

1:21:22Go ahead. Thank you.

1:21:41Good afternoon, everyone.

1:21:43Thank you for having me here and letting me speak.

1:21:48My name is Gyrus Valeriat.

1:21:50I'm in grade 12 right now.

1:21:53And, okay, dealing with Ambridge has been described as being more painful than passing a kidney stone.

1:22:07So if a company that's been kind of hard to deal with, we shouldn't let them push us around just because they're the only one around.

1:22:23That should be more reason for us to give them a harder set of guidelines to follow and keep them from having as much as they do for paying as little as they do.

1:22:48In the last quarter, they made 3.1 billion, which is double the amount of last year.

1:23:00We should, they are more than able to take a hit in terms of how much it costs to have land here or use the land with the amount that they made even in just a quarter, which is an absurd amount.

1:23:38And they should be able to, or we should be able to charge them more without the prices going up for their customers.

1:23:49We should be trying to create a sustainable, affordable and liveable future for everyone, whether it be your kids, my kids, me, anyone.

1:24:03Everyone should have an equal chance to live and be comfortable living.

1:24:13When thinking of this, I looked at it in terms of a landlord and tenant.

1:24:29Well, Guelph being the landlord and Enbridge being the tenant, since with how little they pay and how much area and land that they use,

1:24:43it doesn't equal out to be the right amount that they should have for how much they pay.

1:25:03It's a landlord's job to build a community that supports everyone and make sure that everyone's paying the proper amount for how much space or land that they have.

1:25:25I think that's all. Thank you.

1:25:29Thank you very much, Darius. Appreciate your delegation. Do we have any questions?

1:25:35Yes, Councillor Goucetel.

1:25:38Thank you. Not a question. Just to thank you. I know we can look pretty intimidating here behind, you know, this podium.

1:25:44Just thank you for coming and sharing your thoughts and your reflections and your hopes for the future.

1:25:52Thank you.

1:25:54All right. Our last delegate is Evan Ferrari. We weren't able to connect with Justin Castillo. So Evan, you'll be our last delegate for this afternoon.

1:26:18Whenever you're ready.

1:26:19Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair and to Mr. Mayor and members of council.

1:26:26I'm supportive and in all of the other delegations and like Councillor Boussetteel, I just wanted to reiterate that this is this is a really intimidating thing for probably 75% of the population to do and to think that young people would would actually come to some place like this and put their

1:26:43issues forward. I'm truly in awe of them.

1:26:50In conjunction with our lawyer, Emerge's Fingerprints can be found in the private members bill that our MPP introduced yesterday in the Ontario Legislature and that the original motion that was before you and I'm assuming there may be edits at this point that the original that was motion of the motion that was before you by Councillor Caron.

1:27:10This is about holding a large company accountable for unfair practices. This is about climate change. It's about future generations.

1:27:19You've heard many of the many of the reasons why council should support Councillor Caron's motion and not the staff motion.

1:27:27But first, I'd like to thank staff for doing their job really well.

1:27:32Their job is to be risk averse and in many cases this is the best approach, but not always. It appears that they perceive anything other than agreeing to Enbridge's franchise agreement would be risky.

1:27:48Their job is not to, pardon me, their job is not to recommend bold action. The community comes up with bold ideas and it's up to council to take them and decide whether to turn them into action.

1:28:01These actions eventually become mainstream and then staff receive the awards for doing their jobs, fighting climate change as they received today.

1:28:14But let's look back at where staff were and even going back to the 1980s where staff were risk averse when it came to really radical things like the blue box, habitat restoration and naturalization, wetland and green space preservation,

1:28:30wet dry waste management, water conservation and efficiency, bike lanes, energy and climate change, 100% renewable energy for the corporation of the city of Guelph and acknowledging a climate emergency.

1:28:43But council took bold action because the community wanted all of this because it was good public policy.

1:28:52And here we are today asking you to take bold action on climate change, stand up for Guelph and against injustice.

1:29:02What does that look like? Tell staff to negotiate with Enbridge for a better deal enabling Guelph to charge a fair price and once enabling legislation is completed. It's a placeholder.

1:29:14Ensure that Enbridge stops charging the city to move their pipes whenever the city asks and tell the OEB that any additional costs that Enbridge incurs is not the responsibility of existing gas or future gas customers in the city, but comes from the city's,

1:29:32the company from Enbridge's profits. So what's the opportunity? Well, as you already know, if successful there's a possibility of $8.8 million of revenue per year, then what's the risk?

1:29:46If Enbridge refuses to negotiate, the current agreement remains in place until such time as an agreement can be reached between the two parties or the OEB imposes an agreement.

1:29:58So what does that mean as far as risk is concerned? It's that the status quo continues. It doesn't sound like much of a risk to me. That's not an ending. That's a beginning.

1:30:11Well then what? Well shares its experience with attempting to fight Enbridge with the 339 other municipalities, so not all the municipalities in Ontario, but 340 including Guelph, that have gas infrastructure on their public rights of way.

1:30:28What if every one of those municipalities do the same that Guelph has done and challenge Enbridge? The province will get a very clear message that is unfair and sometimes and something needs to be done.

1:30:40And then maybe we get our $8.8 million per year. The city is not meeting our climate goals right now. The merge fully expects emissions to be higher in the next year report.

1:30:51And this is before the cuts before the budget cuts that are being proposed for all environmental programs. I'd argue that there is a much bigger risk for city council here.

1:31:00You may want to take a look at the ruling in a court case in which youth from across Ontario have taken the provincial government to court. This occurred after the province cut environmental budgets and targets.

1:31:11The ruling states and I'm paraphrasing the province is risking the lives and well being of Ontarians and by doing so could be held accountable.

1:31:21Sorry to interrupt you miss Evan. That's five. I'm just wondering if we have any questions from.

1:31:28Council for Evan.

1:31:32Thank you. Sorry to get to finish your thought there, but appreciate your delegation very much.

1:31:40I hate to say this, but we don't clap or snap in council chambers and for those of you who don't know why it's just so that everybody stays neutral in this room.

1:31:50So appreciate no claps or snaps, even though that's difficult to say. So I did just get update from the clerks that we do have delegate Chuck Castillo who's calling in online.

1:32:01So we'll go to Chuck via video.

1:32:13We do have the delegate in. Oh, there we go. Chuck. Excellent.

1:32:16Sorry, just a context switching from work.

1:32:21Yeah, this is a counselor class and you have your, are you if you're ready to go, your five minutes can start when you're ready.

1:32:29Sure. Yep, you can start.

1:32:32Yeah, I don't have any particular background on this. I unfortunately miss a lot of the other delegates so I may be repeating some of their sentiments.

1:32:42But just kind of my layman's take on this is

1:32:47here we are in the middle of an affordability crisis and five years into a council recognized climate crisis.

1:32:55And we're looking at continuing to let a private entity use city of a well for resources at no cost.

1:33:03When, as I understand it, this is not common practice other promises don't do this.

1:33:08And, you know, this is a fossil fuel company, no less.

1:33:15And also, this is in the context of us right now looking at cutting some projects and some long term plans, essentially due to lack of funds right we're trying to keep income tax, municipal taxes down.

1:33:31So we're going through the whole process of cutting things and letting this private entity use our resources for free when it could be a revenue stream to help fund these things.

1:33:41I mean, it just it doesn't make any sense to me. A common complaint is we should run the city like a business, which has its merits. I mean, no businesses would let their their resources be used for free when they could, you know, charge for them, which is what we should be doing.

1:33:59I know we're, we're not exactly allowed to do this by the province I understand the motion put forward by Councillor Karen.

1:34:10I think it involves writing a letter to request this from the province.

1:34:15I don't think that's, you know, it should be any hindrance we should, for sure be asking for the tools we need to make our city livable and charge, you know, go to kind of more maybe a user fee based system instead of subsidizing these things so it just seems like it's the sensible

1:34:39thing to do. So that's that's all I wanted to say. Thank you.

1:34:44Thank you, Chuck, for your delegation. And thank you to all of the delegates who took the time today.

1:34:51Oh, sorry. Oh, my apologies. I forgot to go to questions.

1:34:55Councillor Billings I see now. Thank you.

1:34:59Quick, through you, Madam chair, I just wanted to ask the comment about using the city resources for free.

1:35:07I was just wondering if you were aware that Enbridge does pay property tax.

1:35:17I can see that they pay property tax. I don't know if they have headquarters there I'm more.

1:35:25It's my understanding that a lot of the stuff they'll do to lay down this infrastructure will involve maybe closing city streets or sidewalks or something doing road work.

1:35:34And that's what they wouldn't be charged for when normally I think companies would be charged for that maybe maybe not but that's probably something that could change.

1:35:46Sure. Yeah. Sure, I just want to make sure that you you understood with the pipelines like they do pay property tax.

1:35:54Sure, but I mean that also opens up a whole lot of like a whole bunch of questions I pay property taxes but I can't go in there and start closing down the streets.

1:36:03Thank you. Yeah.

1:36:06Thank you for the question.

1:36:09And thanks to the delegate that and thanks again to all the delegations sorry to read myself there. Okay, so we've we've completed the delegation component of the meeting and we're going to go on to deliberations.

1:36:23I'm going to start by asking if we could get the staff recommendations put on the floor and I also know that we have some proposed motions from Councillor Caron.

1:36:35And oh, okay, so we've got Billings and Gibson who are willing to put the motions on the floor. Okay, so that means the motions are on the floor. Can we get them put up on the screen as well.

1:36:52Okay, great. And does it make sense for me to read through them. Okay, I'm just going to read through the staff recommendations. And then we'll go to questions.

1:37:06One, that the report entitled municipal franchise agreement with Enbridge gas ink dated November 5 2024 be received. So that was just for receipt to that Council approve the form of franchise agreement and draft by law attached to this report and

1:37:22that the Council request the Ontario Energy Board make an order declaring and directing that the ascent of the municipal electors to this form of franchise agreement and the draft by law attached to this report is not

1:37:43necessary pursuant to the provisions of section 94 of the municipal franchises act. And finally for that staff be authorized and directed to do all things necessary to give effect to the foregoing resolutions.

1:37:57Okay, questions. I've got mayor.

1:38:01I would separate.

1:38:08Okay.

1:38:11I did have mayor Guthrie with his hand up first beside me. I was so I will go to mayor Guthrie. Thank you. It's okay. We're a team. I was just going to ask for them to be split as well. So if you could just go if we could just kind of look to vote on each one, I would appreciate that.

1:38:27Okay, clerks. Can we have them split one through four and then questions. I just had a comment and an amendment. I know that in order for me to be able to put motions on the floor procedureally just for the sake of the public watching or in the gallery.

1:38:42We have to fail these motions. However, number clause number one is the same as my clause number one with one difference. I have the words by for information.

1:38:52So I'd like to make an amendment that for information be added to clause one and if I can get a seconder counselor caller and the reason for that is just we know what received means but often the public doesn't.

1:39:03And I think it's important to make sure that we're only receiving the report for information and that so that that's understood and then it would be identical to the clause one that I am. I'm hoping to be able to propose if the if the remaining clauses fail.

1:39:17Okay, so we have an amendment on the floor for motion number one proposed by counselor Kerron seconded by counselor caller to adjust the wording for two for information. Could we get that up on the screen clerks please so we can see it before we vote on it.

1:39:50Just a quick point for chair chair Colson. Will there be opportunities for questions.

1:39:55Do you have a question related to number motion number one.

1:40:01I have a hand up originally just to just ask the staff but now since we're voting on amendments already.

1:40:10Okay, let's call the vote on this one and I think there'll be lots of time for questions as we go through two to four.

1:40:16Does that it's okay.

1:40:18Okay, I'm going to call the vote on motion number one on the amended motion. Thank you.

1:40:24Mayor Guthrie.

1:40:27I just want to be careful. You don't mind with the language. We're not voting on amended motion one. We're voting on the amendment just to add the word for information.

1:40:35Okay, appreciate the clarification. We're voting on the amendment to the motion.

1:40:40All in favor.

1:40:43Oh, sorry. I'll okay we'll do for this one. Okay.

1:40:49And that's unanimous. Okay. Thank you. Even though I'm doing things a little bit backwards to America three.

1:41:00Okay.

1:41:02Thank you. Moving on to.

1:41:09This is my first rodeo on this guys. Thanks for your patience with me.

1:41:13Now I'm going to call the vote on the motion on the amended motion.

1:41:18And let's go all opposed on this one. Okay, that's unanimous and the motion passes.

1:41:31Let's move on to recommendation number two.

1:41:36And I'm going to ask for questions and then comments. So I'm going to start a list of questions.

1:41:44Anyone. Oh, Councillor Gibson.

1:41:48I just wanted to bring some clarity through staff on the Ontario energy board's role in regulating this business.

1:41:59It's my understanding that it regulates multiple businesses, including energy, all forms of energy. And that's primarily for the benefit of the rate payer.

1:42:09The rates that Enbridge are currently paying or the rates that people are currently paying are inclusive of.

1:42:20Enbridge is cost to deliver that energy.

1:42:25Along with a set margin of revenue or quote, quote, profit. Is that is that correct? Is that currently how the Ontario energy board sort of regulates this industry across.

1:42:38Through the chair to Councillor Gibson and staff's research with respect to the broader energy regulatory sector.

1:42:45Perhaps doesn't go into that level of detail as you've heard during your question, but absolutely the Ontario energy board has a broad mandate to govern the sector, including gas distributors and electricity transmitters as well.

1:42:58Right. And part of the man is protecting that.

1:43:01Would it be a similar process then that energy distribution companies go through where they go in and they do a rate review every 3 to 5 years with the Ontario board to sort of account for their costs and sort of allow for that sort of revenue stream or

1:43:18or quote, quote, profit margin.

1:43:21Through the chair to Councillor Gibson. I can't speak to that process that wasn't part of our research informing these recommendations.

1:43:29Okay.

1:43:30I guess I've just got comments.

1:43:34Thank you.

1:43:37Thank you, Councillor Gibson. We've got Councillor all to has a question.

1:43:44Thank you.

1:43:48So, I'm going to go to Councillor Watson through you to stuff, just the question of clarification. I understand that because this essentially is something that does affect rate payers.

1:44:04That's all taxpayers that those who do not have gas as a utility would be underwriting and bridge somewhat for those who use gas within the community of Guelph.

1:44:18I may have missed the net of your question there,

1:44:22but I think it was similar to what Councillor Gibson was asking in terms of

1:44:25the passing on of expenses to ratepayers.

1:44:28Would you?

1:44:29No. No.

1:44:31If I have only electricity in my house,

1:44:35I believe I am still paying for Enbridge.

1:44:38So in other words,

1:44:39I'm providing a direct subsidy to gas users.

1:44:42Is that correct?

1:44:44Through the chair to Councillor Allt,

1:44:46subsidy implies that there is some kind of cost or value that is not being

1:44:50recouped or fully charged.

1:44:52I can't speak to every level of detail in terms of what the potential

1:44:57value of a land-based fee might be.

1:45:00However, as was detailed in the report, Enbridge pays property taxes on their

1:45:06assessed pipeline.

1:45:08We can also charge them permitting and inspection fees for

1:45:11the work they do in the municipal right of way.

1:45:14So in terms of subsidy, I respectfully,

1:45:17I think that's sort of a loaded term.

1:45:19And if you are not a gas user, then I can't speak to what the specifics of

1:45:28what costs you might be bearing as a resident in Guelph.

1:45:31I hope I addressed your question at least in part.

1:45:34I'll leave it at that. Thank you.

1:45:37All right. Thank you to staff and Councillor Allt.

1:45:40I have Councillor Boussatel and then Gibson and Billings and O'Rourke.

1:45:47Thank you. And through you, Madam Chair,

1:45:49just this is a clarification perhaps that clerks can answer because the staff

1:45:53motion is on the floor.

1:45:55My understanding procedurally is that motion needs to fail if there is an

1:46:00alternate motion. Can you just articulate that?

1:46:06Through you, Madam Chair, I think that is generally correct.

1:46:09Although as we've seen, these are on the floor and open to amendment just like

1:46:12number one was.

1:46:15Thank you. Gibson.

1:46:19Thank you, through you, Chair Klassen.

1:46:20I'm happy to go at the end because these are just comments now, not questions.

1:46:23So if there's other questions, I can wait my turn. Thank you.

1:46:26OK, we'll finish with questions, then I'll go back to you for comment.

1:46:30Billings, please.

1:46:33Through you, Madam Chair.

1:46:34So given clause two, that it's a 20 year agreement.

1:46:39So again, just for clarity,

1:46:44if indeed the act were to change, then would we not follow them?

1:46:51The changes to the act instead of the 20 year agreement that's on the table right now?

1:47:02Through the chair to councillor Billings, if I'm understanding your question correctly,

1:47:05you're referring to the proposed amendment to the regulation under the Municipal Act,

1:47:09which restricts the municipal ability to charge land based fees.

1:47:13If that regulation were amended, we would therefore not be restricted from charging

1:47:19those types of fees.

1:47:20However, it would not automatically change the terms of a franchise agreement.

1:47:24There are other regulatory frameworks in place.

1:47:27We would be either be subject to a new franchise agreement or continuing

1:47:31under the terms of the existing one.

1:47:34And while the form of agreement, the model form that's approved by the OEB

1:47:38does include a provision that would incorporate amendments to that model.

1:47:43Should it be changed?

1:47:44That would be the time at which any any changes to the terms based on changes

1:47:49in applicable law would apply to the agreement.

1:47:52OK, thanks for that.

1:47:53And then also through you, Madam Chair,

1:47:59it's it's from brought up many times were subsidizing and bridge.

1:48:03I was just wondering, sir, a line item in our budget

1:48:06that showing that we're subsidizing and bridge in the past or now.

1:48:14Through the chair to councillor Billings,

1:48:16and there is no specific budget line item that pays a fee to Enbridge.

1:48:21OK, thank you.

1:48:24Thank you or work, please.

1:48:26Thank you, Chair Colassen.

1:48:28So through you to staff, I'm going to ask a question

1:48:32that I just think should be out in the public for people's expectations.

1:48:35So sometimes people think there's a vote and then they'll be an immediate impact.

1:48:40So if we vote against this motion to approve the franchise agreement,

1:48:45can you give us a sense of what happens next?

1:48:51Through the chair to councillor O'Rourke,

1:48:53should council not approve the staff recommendation to approve the form of agreement

1:48:58per applicable legislation?

1:49:00Sir, firstly, per the existing agreement, the current terms would continue.

1:49:04And under the applicable legislation, either the city or Enbridge have the ability

1:49:08to bring an application to the OEB for an order to renew the franchise agreement.

1:49:14So that is a logical next step.

1:49:19OK, thanks.

1:49:21Thank you, councillor O'Rourke and staff.

1:49:23Do we have any other questions, questions only at this moment?

1:49:27OK, no, let's go to comments.

1:49:29I had Gibson. Is there anyone else for comments at this point?

1:49:35Kate, Councillor Kate, you're after Gibson.

1:49:38Go ahead, Councillor Gibson.

1:49:40Thank you. Through you, Chair Colassen, I think it's I think it's important

1:49:44that I speak to why I'm supportive of the staff recommendation,

1:49:49just because I'm going to hold my comments if it fails.

1:49:52Moving forward, the my understanding of the Ontario Energy Board

1:49:58is that they have to protect consumers.

1:50:00The profits are set at a percentage.

1:50:03The way these energy companies grow their revenue streams

1:50:07is largely by growing their customer base.

1:50:09So as the population grows, their revenues will increase.

1:50:12And so that's that's my understanding of the landscape.

1:50:15Now, Enbridge has, as many people noted today, Enbridge,

1:50:18their revenues have gone through.

1:50:20They have skyrocketed.

1:50:21They've increased dramatically in recent years,

1:50:24but they've got a breakdown of their of their fees on their website

1:50:28and their websites very clearly.

1:50:29The first hundred cubic meters of gas is delivered to your houses

1:50:33at 13 cents a cubic meter.

1:50:36The federal carbon charge is 15 cents per cubic meter.

1:50:39So when they're when you're seeing their revenue streams grow by 40 percent,

1:50:43you're not accounting for the fact that they're collecting the carbon charge

1:50:46for the federal government on the bill.

1:50:48And that money is full of strength.

1:50:50That's a revenue to give us to the government.

1:50:51And they make that specifically clear on their website that, yes,

1:50:54the revenues have gone up significantly,

1:50:58but the carbon charge on your rate on your bill now is 15 cents per cubic meter

1:51:02of energy. That's more expensive than the first hundred meters,

1:51:06hundred cubic meters of energy your houses consume.

1:51:09That's all being said, I'm not I'm not saying that's right or wrong.

1:51:12I'm just saying there is there is a tie to revenue increases

1:51:15for this energy company and some other government policies that are going on.

1:51:20The rate review that these companies go through every three to five years

1:51:23is inclusive of their costs.

1:51:25And so when a material impact to their business,

1:51:30like this private members bill that's been introduced in the provincial legislature,

1:51:33if it was to pass, which it very well may,

1:51:37that would create a material impact on a regulated business

1:51:40and our regulated industry.

1:51:42That material impact, it's a legal term.

1:51:45It creates what is known as a deferral account with the Ontario Energy Board.

1:51:49And that company then creates a deferral account, sets aside the costs

1:51:53that are associated with that legislative change.

1:51:55And at the next regulated rate review of that company's practices,

1:52:00the Ontario Energy Board listens to and accounts for those new costs

1:52:04associated with new legislation.

1:52:06And so there's the way the system is set up, the way the system works

1:52:11for these regulated industries, protecting the consumer,

1:52:14is that when there's new legislative impacts on that industry,

1:52:17it is then accounted for at the next rate review.

1:52:20So that I'm not at the level of Queens Park.

1:52:24I do not have the ability to make these changes.

1:52:26I'm making the ability at the municipal level.

1:52:30This will directly impact rate payers in our city, not today,

1:52:34but when the next rate review happens and there's hundreds of millions of dollars

1:52:37sitting under a referral account that Enbridge is now paying to municipalities,

1:52:41we believe we're making new revenue streams at the municipality.

1:52:44Really, we're passing those fees onto the rate payers.

1:52:47That's how it works, how it works with all forms of energy.

1:52:51And that's how it works in Ontario and other provinces

1:52:53where there's monopoly ownership of energy, gas, utilities, everything.

1:52:56That's how it works as well.

1:52:58Municipalities are allowed to participate, but in Ontario, this is how it works.

1:53:02So I'm supportive of the staff recommendation on that basis.

1:53:07And we are not in the position at the municipal level

1:53:10to make those changes structurally to the entire system.

1:53:13I will leave that to Queens Park and whichever government is making decisions.

1:53:17Thank you.

1:53:19Thank you for your comments, Councillor Gibson.

1:53:22I'm going to go to Councillor Caiten for comments.

1:53:24And they're the last one on my list.

1:53:26So I'm just looking around the room.

1:53:28I've got Councillor O'Rourke.

1:53:29Anyone else for comments at this moment?

1:53:31OK, so O'Rourke will be our last.

1:53:34OK, and then back and then Kehran after that.

1:53:38OK, over to you, Caiten.

1:53:42Through you, Madam Chair.

1:53:46We tax all sorts of things that come back to us

1:53:50in terms of our health, because we also provide all the infrastructure

1:53:55that deals with our health.

1:53:56We have extra taxes on cigarettes.

1:53:59Having extra taxes on carbon and pollution seems directly in line

1:54:04with the fact that we have to fund resources that break down into poor health

1:54:11for ourselves and our environment.

1:54:14We have a lot of money that could be made

1:54:18that is currently not being charged due to the provincial legislation.

1:54:23Should that change?

1:54:24I think it's completely fair that we should start charging for this

1:54:28just like other provinces have been doing.

1:54:31It is something that we pay for currently in property taxes and in services

1:54:36by not having this extra income.

1:54:39And so either way, we're going to be paying for something

1:54:43and I would be rather paying for something that protects the future

1:54:48of our planet and our kids.

1:54:52So I'll be voting down the staff recommendation

1:54:54so that we can bring forward Councillor Caron's motion.

1:54:58Thank you.

1:55:00Thank you, Councillor Caitlin or Art.

1:55:03Thank you, Chair Klassen.

1:55:05So I understand the benefits of coordinating regulation

1:55:09across four hundred and forty four municipalities for utility

1:55:11that needs to, you know, manage land across that that space.

1:55:18But I think things are changing so quickly in our environment,

1:55:22with technology, with municipal revenues that I can't support

1:55:27a twenty year contract.

1:55:28And at a minimum, I think that we need to at least flag that for the province.

1:55:33We charge user fees on a number of things

1:55:36and a number of land uses, including park pavilions.

1:55:39And so I think this is a signal to the province

1:55:42that they need to take a closer look.

1:55:45So I do not believe that by voting against the motion,

1:55:49we are going to affect significant change in this agreement.

1:55:53We're not going to be able to start charging user fees tomorrow.

1:55:56That will be up to the province to negotiate something that is coordinated,

1:56:00but perhaps fairer.

1:56:03But I do think this sends important signal to Queens Park.

1:56:07And so I will vote against the motion.

1:56:11Thank you, Councillor Awerk.

1:56:12And lastly, Councillor Caron.

1:56:14Great, I'm going to save most of my comments if this fails.

1:56:17But I just want to address Councillor Gibson's assessment of the situation

1:56:21that gas customers may be impacted

1:56:25through their rates at a later date.

1:56:27And I want to acknowledge that that may be the case,

1:56:30but it is a more transparent way of showing the energy economy transition

1:56:36because we are supposed to be incentivizing cleaner fuel alternatives

1:56:40and disincentivizing fossil fuels.

1:56:42So it's a translation of costs,

1:56:45but the municipality will benefit from that transfer of costs

1:56:50as we disincentivize the dying fossil fuel industry.

1:56:57Thank you.

1:56:57Oh, Councillor Caron, now we've got two more.

1:57:02I saw Alt first and then Billings.

1:57:06Thank you very much, Chair Carter, Chair Klassen.

1:57:12Following up on what was stated by Councillor Caron,

1:57:19I think it's very important that we do recognize

1:57:21that there are environmental considerations here, and we do have within well

1:57:25an active community that is engaged in solar electric power.

1:57:30And I think we also need to look at this as a cost to people who quite often

1:57:36are in apartments and are in other units

1:57:39where electricity is being used to heat their particular units.

1:57:45And they are subsidizing all of the gas within the community,

1:57:48despite the fact that we believe in renewable energy and wealth.

1:57:51I would suggest that we are doing it to service to

1:57:54everything that we stand for in terms of energy conservation and the environment

1:58:00by not making a stand on this.

1:58:02And I would agree with Councillor O'Rourke as well.

1:58:04There are certain things that are up to the promise,

1:58:06but we and wealth can send a signal that fossil fuels have had their time

1:58:13and that, in fact, we are moving toward clean energy in this community.

1:58:20Thank you, Councillor Allt. Billings, please.

1:58:25Councillor Gibson, I mean, he's just being realistic.

1:58:30If the if the act changes, utility costs will go up, utility rates will go up,

1:58:36and therefore costs of living will go up.

1:58:39And Council speaks constantly about affordability,

1:58:42but would also like to see utility rates go up.

1:58:46And if we don't pass clause two,

1:58:49Enbridge will just make their application to the OEB,

1:58:53and the franchise agreement will be approved anyway.

1:59:00Thank you, Councillor Billings.

1:59:02Councillor Boussatel and then Bethry.

1:59:06Thank you, and through you, Madam Chair,

1:59:08I too will be voting against the staff recommendation.

1:59:13I think it's more than performatory, and I think it's the delegation.

1:59:17Mr. Lawson was talking about pushing back,

1:59:20and I think we as Council need to push back.

1:59:22In a formal way, and so I will not be supporting the staff recommendation.

1:59:29Thank you, Councillor Boussatel, Mayor Guthrie, and then Chiu.

1:59:35Okay, Cam is fine.

1:59:38I've been called worse. Thank you so much, and through you, Chair.

1:59:42I just do have one very quick question,

1:59:44then maybe a comment based on the answer.

1:59:46The contract through you, the contract comes due in May of next year.

1:59:52Do we have any idea sort of how long legislation might take to go through

1:59:59at the province based on the fact that the private members bill was only introduced yesterday?

2:00:05Is there any type of normal tracking of an average time for these types of legislative

2:00:13bills to move through? I'm sure if it's not to the degree of what the government wants,

2:00:18it could delay and delay, but does anyone have any idea?

2:00:22Through the through the chairs, Mayor Guthrie, we don't have any insight on to that.

2:00:26Okay, thank you. And so my follow-up question then is, is there any

2:00:35is there any risk to us not making a decision today, but based on a deferral

2:00:41to wait until May, or does our contractual obligations with Enbridge require us to make

2:00:48a decision today? Through the chair to Mayor Guthrie, there's no contractual obligation to

2:01:00make a decision today. And I don't wish to speak to risks in open. Certainly we've had a conversation

2:01:07enclosed. If there are specific risks that you are inquiring about, perhaps other members of staff

2:01:12will be able to address that. It's okay. Through you, Chair, I didn't even need to use the word

2:01:17risk. That just meant is there is an obligation of timing, I guess is the better word I wanted to use.

2:01:22Okay. I will be voting in favor of the staff recommendation, but I also am equally passionate

2:01:32about the performative part that my colleague to the right here just mentioned. I don't think that

2:01:37there is anything that we can do here under the regulatory framework that is upon us. But I mean,

2:01:45I don't like it at all, especially the 20 year horizon. But I believe that it is a waste of resources

2:01:53and time for the city, for the taxpayer actually right now. And for our staff from work plan perspective

2:02:03to be working on this issue when if this motion fails, there can be some obligation now upon our

2:02:10own staff to have to try to do even more work in regards to this issue, which we already know what

2:02:15the outcome will be. So I may not appreciate the outcome or like the outcome, but because I already

2:02:22know in advance what the outcome is, I'm not going to push and agree to put us into the position

2:02:29like that. So I have since day one, Councillor Caron can attest I have been in favor of

2:02:36her motions that are coming forward here in regards to the advocacy portion of this 100%.

2:02:44But I also am basing my decision to support the motion Madam Chair based on reality of the situation

2:02:52that we're in today. And I feel that that's the position that I'm in right now. So I'll be supporting

2:02:57it. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. Councillor Chew. Thank you through you, Madam Chair.

2:03:06Like I just want to address the fact that this is a very complicated matter.

2:03:11There are legal frameworks in place that places accountability on Aembridge to work with us from

2:03:18a customer service perspective. So I just reject that notion that they're getting away scotch free.

2:03:24I understand as well the environment that we're in in terms of energy in Ontario and that there may

2:03:31be inequities that people see optically with Aembridge. However, like just the notion that they

2:03:39are getting away and we are subsidizing fossil fuels, I don't think that's the entire truth,

2:03:46the how this environment has played out the way it is. However, I do appreciate the merits of the

2:03:53private members bill that came forward by our MPP. And just given the nature of this being

2:03:59committee of the whole, like I am curious just for conversation sake to further the discussion.

2:04:08And I appreciate Councillor Caron's back and forth with staff as well to give us more information

2:04:16on what the municipal whole franchise agreements look like and how maybe there's opportunities to

2:04:22create some changes. So just on the merit of that alone, I welcome a conversation, but not

2:04:29withstanding that I do want to say that my decision could change at the end of the month just to be

2:04:33completely transparent with everybody. So I will vote against this for now, but I welcome a conversation

2:04:41and I'll see how that plays out at the end of the month. Thank you, Councillor Chew. I think that is

2:04:49all for comments. And I will say a very quick thing. I just wanted to say thank you to staff for

2:04:56all of the work in the back and forth. There were a lot of questions asked as part of this one.

2:05:02And I really appreciated all of the engagement. It was challenging to wrap, I think, my head

2:05:08around it. So it was good to be able to communicate with you. My own comment as an aside, I think

2:05:15sometimes a change can start as a ripple. It doesn't have to be a tidal wave. And I think that there is

2:05:21an opportunity here to send a small message, even if it is really, really small. So with that,

2:05:29I'm going to call the vote on recommendations two to four. I've conferred with clerks three and four

2:05:36are connected. So I believe if, and staff can confirm here, I think that if two fails, then

2:05:44three and four would be moot. So I think we'll call two to four with this vote. And with that,

2:05:53I'm going to ask for all those who are against the staff recommendations two through four that are

2:06:00now on the screen, please raise your hand. Okay. So against, against, I do that right, clerks?

2:06:10Against motions two to four. I've got O'Rourke, I've got Richardson, I've got Koran, Downer,

2:06:17Klassen, Busatil, Gawler, and Chu, and on the screen, Alt and, uh, Katen. So that is, and if I'm

2:06:27quickly doing the math, that is three, that carries, uh, 10 to three. Thank you. Okay.

2:06:34Madam Chair, that motion is defeated. That motion is defeated. Thank you for letting,

2:06:38I am learning as I go here. I am so grateful for the support. So, recommendations two through four

2:06:47are defeated. And so I've got Councillor Caron, who I know has additional motions that she would

2:06:55like to table. So I'm going to ask clerks to put up the motions that were supplementary and provided

2:07:04earlier today through email. And then I'll, we'll let Koran speak to it. And then we can go to

2:07:09questions. Does that make sense? Okay. Thank you. Just need a minute to get those motions up on the

2:07:17screen. And they might need to be edited a little bit because, right, the first one we've already

2:07:23got. Yeah. First one's carried. Okay. All right. So, Councillor, hey, Koran, would you like to

2:07:36speak to you, these new motions that we've got before us? This motion is seconded by Councillor

2:07:40Gowler. Um, and I just wanted to give a brief introduction. I first became aware of this issue

2:07:45in June. And I reached out to staff then and to ask when our municipal franchise agreement was

2:07:50coming due and found out that it was within the year. And it led to a whole series of questions

2:07:55and, and conversations. And I want to thank staff for, for all of that because there's been a lot

2:07:59of research that they've done behind the scenes as well to be able to compare to other municipalities,

2:08:04the City of Toronto motion, the City of Ottawa motion, motion. And so thank you for that. We're

2:08:10on the leading edge of change here. City of Toronto and Ottawa have already passed similar motions.

2:08:17Bill 219 is on the floor. The Ontario Big City Mayor's municipalities across Ontario

2:08:23are talking about this in the same way that we're talking about things like the heads and

2:08:28beds levy. The bottom line is that obsolete regulations for an obsolete way of thinking

2:08:33need to change. And I have no, you know, confidence that Enbridge will voluntarily renegotiate a

2:08:39signed agreement because there's no benefit to them unless they're ordered to do so. So let's

2:08:44face it, a 20 year locked in agreement is great for some kinds of agreements, but not for a rapidly

2:08:51changing energy landscape where fossil gas is waning and alternative heat pump installations

2:08:56are being encouraged and incentivized. If I had entered into a 20 year agreement, unbreakable

2:09:02agreement for my Nokia flip phone in 2012, I'd still have eight years left on my contract. I mean,

2:09:09it is, it is a changing environment and we're here. It's our job description under the municipal act

2:09:15and under our governance process. We're here to act in the best interests of our citizens and the

2:09:21best interests of the corporation of the City of Guelph. And I'm fully cognizant that we currently

2:09:29cannot charge and that Enbridge does not support amendments potentially to our franchise agreement

2:09:35and that if we don't ratify an agreement that that agreement will be imposed upon us. But the end

2:09:41result is the same. The end result is we end up with the same franchise agreement. The difference is

2:09:48whether we are doing so willingly and voluntarily or whether we're taking a stand. And I believe

2:09:55that the franchise agreement is antiquated. It was something that was first developed in the year

2:10:002000 and it is no longer relevant. And so for me, these motions represent three guiding principles.

2:10:10The first is fairness. Other provinces have amended their agreements. Ontario is laggard in that regard.

2:10:16Our underground real estate has value. And I really like the analogy. I think it was Jairus who said

2:10:24the analogy of the landlord and tenant relationship. We charge right of way easements for private

2:10:30citizens and private businesses for use of things like patios. If we are and we recognize that our

2:10:36land and our real estate underground has value, then we have to be fair about how we charge for

2:10:41use of that underground infrastructure. The second principle that guides me is climate action. We must

2:10:47disincentivize fossil gas expansion and use of our public land and transition to the new energy

2:10:55options. And we can't do that unless the real cost of fossil gas is paid by the rate payer. So this

2:11:02is a transparency issue on climate action in that actual costs will be paid for in whatever a new

2:11:09franchise agreement looks like. And then the third is just revenue. But this motion, these motions

2:11:15are not all about money or raising rates of gas customers. It's about rebalancing and redistributing

2:11:21revenue from a for-profit fuel giant back into our community priorities. So when we talk about

2:11:28affordability, we often talk about housing, but the cost of monthly operating costs to heat and

2:11:34cool homes, those are real affordability issues as well. So this is about putting those revenues

2:11:40back into into our community priorities as we grapple with a very, very difficult budget year.

2:11:46So I'm going to leave it there. I am hoping that we will demonstrate leadership on this historic

2:11:51policy shift in fossil fuel funding. This is a long game. And I think one of our delegations said we

2:11:57will be judged by our grandchildren. I believe that to be so. If we do nothing now, we get nothing.

2:12:03We won't get anything for another 20 years potentially. So this is our opportunity. Let's do something.

2:12:10Thank you, Councillor. Are there any questions?

2:12:15Point of order. Chair Klassen. Yes. The public wouldn't have had the motions that are on the

2:12:21floor now. And so they need to be read. Right. So anybody using the screen reader wouldn't know what

2:12:26motions had just appeared. Sure. Let's get those motions. Thank you, Councillor Awerk.

2:12:32So for the benefit of the public who have not had these before them for very long,

2:12:37we'll read out these four motions from Councillor Caron. That I'll go for it. So one, that council

2:12:45request that the province of Ontario amend section nine of the regulation 584.06 under the municipal

2:12:52act 2001 to permit municipalities to charge fair fees to for-profit gas utilities for their use

2:12:59of public property as municipalities do in most other provinces. Number two, that's council direct

2:13:06staff to negotiate a franchise agreement with the gas distribution company that a will allow the

2:13:11city of Guelph to charge fees for the use of public property if and when Ontario regulation 584.06 is

2:13:17amended to allow such changes. B will ensure that the city of Guelph is not liable to pay for any

2:13:23gas infrastructure relocations needed due to conflicts with municipal infrastructure. And C

2:13:29will ensure future charges for the use of municipal property are not passed on to Guelph customers

2:13:36of the gas distribution company. I said that one a little funny. Sorry about that. Number three,

2:13:40that the city of Guelph supports the bill 219 no free ride for fossil fuels act 2024 tabled

2:13:48yesterday November 4th 2024 by Guelph MPP Mike Shreiner. And number four, that the above referenced

2:13:55motions and a letter of support for bill 219 be circulated to MPP Mike Shreiner, Premier Doug

2:14:01Ford, Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing Paul Calandra, Steven Leche, Minister of Elect

2:14:07Energy and Electrification and the Ontario big city mayors OBCM the Association of Municipalities

2:14:14Amo and its member municipalities. So all right, they have been read. Thank you. And now I'm

2:14:22taking questions. I've got Mayor Guthrie with a question. Councillor Gibson with a question. Over

2:14:29to you, Mayor Guthrie. Thank you, chair. Just because it's kind of a first drop in the room of

2:14:35this publicly just wanted to know if staff have any concerns or need any clarity on any of the

2:14:42of the motions just before we move forward. That's all. Thank you. Thank you through the chair to

2:14:48the mover actually. Just the word negotiate that you have in there. We're just wondering about

2:14:54some clarity on that. I think we've had some discussions about the difficulties in terms of

2:15:00trying to negotiate with a with an energy board that's something that's regulated. So

2:15:05just some clarity on what the expectation is in terms of negotiations, particularly with some of

2:15:10the some of the items that are in the in some of the other motions. Did you want me to address that

2:15:16as I think yeah, over to you, Councillor. I want to be careful that it's not a closed direction on

2:15:22a legal matter when you're in when we're entering into a an agreement negotiation. Is it do you want

2:15:29me to um should we go in closed on that through the chair to Councillor Caron we can if you have a

2:15:36specific questions but Jane um with the intention of their the request from staff is really clarity on

2:15:43not the sort of the substance of negotiations but the you know kind of the frequency the timing

2:15:50that kind of expectation because you know in the abstraction negotiations could continue

2:15:54indefinitely. So just clarity on process. Yes, so my understanding is negotiations are already

2:16:00underway because our our franchise agreement expires in April. So during those conversations

2:16:08I would like to see a clause in an amended franchise agreement

2:16:13that has these three points embedded in the agreement and so negotiate would be the traditional

2:16:21sense of the word and that you would be trying to reach an agreement with Enbridge to allow these

2:16:26clauses to be embedded in our amended franchise agreement and that in the event that the negotiation

2:16:37is unsuccessful um that um the negotiation fails as would any normal um legal process

2:16:46and we end up without a signed agreement and the signed and the status quo agreement

2:16:54continues as is until such time as we may be ordered by the OEB uh into an involuntary

2:17:02uh agreement. Does that help? If you could just give us a moment please. Yeah.

2:17:14Okay we're just going to take a minute for staff to confer and then they'll respond back to

2:17:18Councillor Caron and then the floor will be yours again. I'm going to go through you. Thank you for

2:17:50that time. I'm through the chair to Councillor Caron um sort of rephrasing my question so we

2:17:55understand the objective of the negotiations they're very clearly set out in your motion

2:18:00what would be helpful to staff is understanding either the expectation in terms of level of effort

2:18:06time to be spent in those negotiations or if if staff say WCAO homes has discretion to determine

2:18:14when the negotiations have been unsuccessful. I would like to give DCIO homes the discretion to

2:18:20determine when that's been unsuccessful. If you enter into a conversation and the conversation is

2:18:25no it's a non-negotiable then that is I'd like to give DCIO that discretion and then we would

2:18:32not proceed with entering into an agreement. Okay all right thank you Councillor Caron and staff.

2:18:41Mayor Guthrie the floor is back to you. Thank you chair um and through you would you would you

2:18:47feel more comfortable if I made an amendment that just um to staff that gave that gave in in real

2:18:54clear terms direction for that delegated authority to our deputy CAO because if so I'd be happy to

2:19:02just move an amendment um on number three that council directs staff um then with a comma um

2:19:11with a delegated authority given to the deputy CAO of IDE the ability to negotiate a franchise.

2:19:19So if I if I can kind of shove in the middle of that first line the delegated authority to

2:19:24our deputy CAO would that would that help with the clarity then that you're you're looking for?

2:19:30We're getting a thumbs up from DCIO. Okay I'm happy to move that amendment and email it to the clerks.

2:19:37Councillor Poussatil was also willing to uh second that amendment so I'll do that right now.

2:19:43Okay thank you thank you and clerks will send we'll be receiving a copy of the amended motion

2:19:52and then we'll put that up on the screen for review. Okay so we have the amended motion the

2:20:50amendment to motion number two so we'll call the vote to the on the amended amended motion no the

2:20:57amendment um all those against the amendment raise your hand and uh that carries um unanimously.

2:21:11Thank you um and back to you Councillor Miragat. No I have I have I have uh I have no more

2:21:19questions chair uh maybe just very quick comments would you like me to do those now or would you

2:21:23like me to do them later? Oh sure go go for it make your comments. Okay thank you and through you

2:21:29just as I said earlier just kind of want to repeat a little bit but just to say that um

2:21:35my position has been I understand that the um regulatory framework that we're in that we could

2:21:40not change anything and that would be opposed on us anyways which is why I voted differently at the

2:21:44first part but I've always been in favor of this part which is the advocacy role to change everything

2:21:50that is here in fact I contacted the mover to add the Ontario Big City Mayor's portion

2:21:57to the motion because I want to actually bring this issue to the Ontario Big City Mayor's coalition so

2:22:04I feel it's very important as I said earlier as well I mean the regulatory framework to lock us in

2:22:11for 20 years is ridiculous absolutely ridiculous and it should be a no-brainer for you know the

2:22:18government and the regulatory framework those in regulatory departments of the province to

2:22:24understand that I mean it's just common sense so I really appreciate Councillor Caron bringing this up

2:22:31as you have rightly said since sort of summertime and it's um it this just this does make a lot

2:22:39of sense and the timing is good around a almost call them councillor council Shrinor MPP Shrinor

2:22:47doing doing his work at the legislature as well so yeah from an advocacy point of view I really

2:22:55feel that this is the direction we we should go and to send that message so thank you very much

2:23:01okay thank you Mayor Guthrie I had Gibson then or Rourke then Alt and Kateen

2:23:08thank you through short class and I thought I wouldn't make any comments but you know I just

2:23:12feel like I just weigh in a little bit more here thanks for the conversation all three three points

2:23:17I'd like to make that there's an irony here this evening I remember last week there were a lot of

2:23:21angry councillors who expressed me personally that how dare we vote against a staff recommendation

2:23:26and here we are a week later many of the same council so we're expressing anger voting against

2:23:31a staff motion so teaching moment for us council it happens the second point is you know we've

2:23:39and thanks to councillor Caron it's a political it's a political statement this this is going to

2:23:43impact this is going to impact fees and and energy bills for those in our community that's

2:23:48that's a known fact gas bills have already doubled in the last 10 years in our province there is

2:23:55already push against allowing for affordable energy through fossil fuels in the country

2:24:03I think I've already said it a cubic meter of natural gas is 13 cents delivered to your house

2:24:08and there's a four and there's a 15 cent carbon charge on that on that cubic meter so that that's

2:24:13where the costs have already doubled so we're acknowledging that costs have increased we're

2:24:18already experiencing energy poverty throughout our community those who are experiencing housing

2:24:22insecurity or marginal housing who are unfortunately getting gas bills still we're telling them your

2:24:29gas bills need to go up your behavior needs to change that's too much we can't continue to push

2:24:34down trying to exert change at the rate I think the federal government's already hearing loud and

2:24:38clear across the country that the rate which we are changing is causing a lot of hurt and a lot of

2:24:44impoverishness across the country so I'm just I'm speaking to affordability and how the system

2:24:50works I think there's already a lot of pressure on the on to reduce and to conserve and to eliminate

2:24:54the use of fossil fuels and home eating I think this just adds more pressure to it the last comment

2:25:00I'm going to make is the 20 the thought about the 20 years being ridiculous we we're still paying

2:25:0780 80 cents a kilowatt hour for the energy bills that were signed in 2008 when the Green Energy

2:25:13Act came in so the windmills and the solar farms they're all still getting the same rate even though

2:25:18you know cost of energy has gone down significantly in the last five ten years we're still paying

2:25:23an outsized subsidy to those energy rates and we still will until 2028 until those contracts

2:25:28are out so the 20 year window on contracts that's a that's a bit of a red airing that's just that's

2:25:34just what they are energy energy contracts are always signed like that so I appreciate the

2:25:39conversation I think it's important that we can we we understand the roles of the OEP in protecting

2:25:45the rate payer and I'm just going to respectfully decline my vote on this one which will be obviously

2:25:51against thank you thank you councillor Gibson or Rourke please thank you chair class and I

2:25:58actually have an amendment to propose and then a comment to make afterwards but the amendment I'd

2:26:03like to propose is on the clause I think it's clause four in terms of support for bill 219

2:26:11so it's just a really simple amendment I would like to add the words in principle so the private

2:26:18members bill came out yesterday as I read it and you know I haven't had a whole lot of time

2:26:24to digest it or ask any questions about it I do have a concern that if every municipality in the

2:26:29province could start to negotiate its rates with whatever utility it could become very cumbersome

2:26:37and and potentially you know extremely problematic in terms of who negotiates the rates is it

2:26:43the municipality is it the region and so I don't know how that plays out with this legislation if

2:26:49you just have a blanket provision that every municipality can set its rates so what I support

2:26:54is likely a broad coalition right so I love the principle of it it's exactly what we're saying

2:27:00today about making sure that there's a user fee that is more reflective but I would like to add

2:27:06the words in principle because many folks here potentially have not read this bill yet we don't

2:27:12know what the impacts of it are it has not been debated so I would like to add those words in principle

2:27:19thank you do you have a seconder okay mayor guthrie will second that so we have an amendment to

2:27:26clause four that the city of golf supports the bill 219 no free ride for fossil fuels act 2024

2:27:33this legislation was tabled yesterday and could we get that amendment via email to the clerks

2:27:41or can we just get clerks to adjust to add in principle okay thank you so I'd like to call

2:27:52the vote on the amendment or if there's any quick questions corano coran yeah I just want to thank

2:28:01the mover and just frame why I'm not supporting in principle it is a it is a one-page bill that's

2:28:07currently publicly available and I did read it so I support the full bill as it's written so

2:28:13that's the only reason why I'm not supporting it but I understand why you're putting in principle

2:28:17for those who who may have not had that opportunity because it's been less than 24 hours thank you

2:28:24for that is there any other very quick questions before I call the vote okay I'm not seeing any

2:28:31so I'd like to call the vote on the amendment to add

2:28:36as the words in principle thank you all those against raise your hands please

2:28:46I've got alt herot caron downer and gogallar and katin against so the the amendment passes

2:28:58um eight two five thank you all right um so going back to the discussion or work you still have the

2:29:08floor uh thank you chair class and so I think this is a great conversation um and so I'll just

2:29:16close with the comments that we obviously have an environmental responsibility

2:29:21but we also have a fiscal responsibility to the corporation of the city of gulf and I think that

2:29:27these motions and the motion that we just passed I think they send they they it's us assuming that

2:29:34responsibility as stewards of the corporation in terms of the length of contracts into which we

2:29:39will enter our ability to negotiate that our ability to charge user fees I think that's a critical

2:29:45piece um and it is fully in assuming um that a number of changes will take place in the environmental

2:29:52landscape in the years to come so thank you councillor Caron for bringing this forward I'm

2:29:56quite confident that a large coalition across Ontario will pick up the banner and we'll start

2:30:02to amplify the voices of citizens um across across the province thank you councillor orak

2:30:11councillor Allt please and then uh katin thank you very much chair Klassen um uh thank you for

2:30:18giving me the opportunity to speak to this I love teachable moments I think they're very important

2:30:23having been a teacher and uh I want to thank uh emerge for teaching me a lot about um the climate

2:30:30and about uh renewable energy I certainly want to thank councillor Caron for bringing up the motion

2:30:36that has been really passionately considered by many residents of gulf the delegates many of

2:30:42them for seniors climate acts for climate action now have been teaching their children very well

2:30:47and what I think is even more important is the youth delegates if they even know the

2:30:51reference to the song uh you are teaching your parents well too just like crossby stills of

2:30:57nash said 20 years is a long time in 20 years my grandkids will hopefully be uh voting for the

2:31:04second or third time they're two years of age and uh this is actually three months of age

2:31:10I'm looking forward to them having a world where we have a cleaner climate where we are dealing

2:31:15with renewables better and where we understand that fossil fuels had their time but like many

2:31:23things like coal sometimes the time passes and sometimes we realize we can do things better

2:31:30thank you to all the delegates for great teachable moments thank you councillor Allt and kateen who's

2:31:38oh and karon after that fair um our contract is up now so now's the time for change voluntarily

2:31:47locking in for another 20 years without pushing for change feels pretty irresponsible to me

2:31:53we don't have public feedback on this staff recommendation like we did on our past uh vote

2:31:58but it clears it feels clear to me that based on the email response from the community that

2:32:04gulf really stands behind this motion and I really like to thank councillor Caron for bringing it

2:32:08forward and I'll be supporting it thank you thank you councillor kateen and last but not least

2:32:16councillor karon thanks I didn't think I'd have anything left of my five minute time but I I wanted

2:32:23to echo the thanks of staff I know they probably didn't need the extra work and I really appreciate

2:32:27the time spent answering so many questions because this is a complex issue um emerge um and

2:32:34environmental defense for your advocacy on this issue on the climate caucus in Ontario we have a

2:32:39number of councillors and mayors from all over Ontario who talk climate issues who've been talking

2:32:43about this for months as well youth climate anxiety and climate action and seniors for climate action

2:32:49now keep up the great work um spreading the word in our community because I'm not sure a lot of our

2:32:55citizens knew about this issue and and word of mouth has been really important um thank you

2:33:00as well to our MPP Mike Shreiner for bringing forward bill 219 it's timely when I think I always

2:33:05throw in a historical fact in because I know how much mayor uh gathry loves um a little bit of

2:33:12history but you know 100 years ago um we all had wood uh fireplace and wood parlor stoves and we

2:33:20were heated by wood major energy transition to coal um and then in the 1930s major energy

2:33:28transition to coal gas and coal gas was piped underneath our streets and we owned our energy

2:33:33utility and we made a large scale complete municipal wide large scale transition to coal gas

2:33:41and then oil oil in the 1950s through the 1980s everyone had an oil tank in their basement

2:33:47then we went back to fossil gas or you know for marketing purposes natural gas and we went back to

2:33:52infrastructure we're on the cusp of a major shift in our energy systems uh in in our history

2:33:59and when I say history I'm only talking about 100 years when we were all heating with wood

2:34:05so heat pumps electrification um the energy transition has begun and we have to be uh

2:34:12riding that wave and on that road or we will be left behind and I think that these motions get us

2:34:19um um on that road and we'll be sending a message to other levels of government

2:34:24uh that quelf is leading the way on that energy transition so thank you to my colleagues for

2:34:28your support and to the community I really appreciate it thank you counselor karan um

2:34:36I would like to add a little piece of history for my own on my own 20 years ago I was 17 um and

2:34:44I think that maybe hopefully in another 20 years from now when my my babies are bigger

2:34:51that there will be lots of little changes like like the ones that are being proposed today

2:34:55so with that I'd like to call the vote on the motions proposed by counselor karan

2:35:01there were four of them could we get them back on the screen the motions as amended

2:35:08so I'd like to call the motions as amended um and I can call all four or do we have to go one by one

2:35:15so you madam chair you can call all four at once okay I'd like to call all four at once

2:35:21and I'd like to um ask who all those who are against to please raise their hands gibson

2:35:30billings uh against so that uh these motions these motions as amended carry 11 to 2 thank you

2:35:38very much um and um now I guess that's it thank you this is my very first time chairing this

2:35:48meeting so I just want to say thank you to everyone for your patience as I navigated this uh thank

2:35:54you to staff uh and thank you to all the delegates for making the time to come here today and and

2:35:59speak with us um and hopefully we can send a message and create a ripple effect and maybe our

2:36:07colleagues at AMO um will be will be putting together a committee on this in the near future

2:36:13so thank you um and um I'd like to move on to our second item for discussion which is uh yes

2:36:23yes um mayor cam gretory uh has proposed a five minute break and I I will second that um and uh

2:36:31so we'll be back here um five minutes from now which is 410 uh for the blue box status update

2:36:38presentation thank you okay welcome back everybody um we're now going to discuss the second part of

2:43:10our um agenda which is the blue box transition status update to start we have a presentation from

2:43:20our staff nector tampak okay I'm gonna do it I'm gonna say it correctly it's going I'm gonna

2:43:27say it correctly because I can't help me out with this one so it's tampocopolis yes nector tampocopolis

2:43:35and Cameron Walsh who will give us um a presentation um and then we do have a delegate um reg

2:43:44d'orval you'll you'll we'll we'll he'll come up after that okay all right over to you guys thank you

2:43:56good afternoon madam chair mayor guthrie and city counselors uh today we're going to be speaking

2:44:01on the blue box transition program and we'll be talking about the six uh elements associated with

2:44:06it uh presently and as it rolls into 2025 and 2026 so the provincial blue box regulation aims to

2:44:15enhance the performance of recycling systems by making producers of recyclable materials

2:44:20responsible for fully funding and operating the system wealth will transition on january the first

2:44:262025 we are in the final months of transition preparation focusing on communicating the changes

2:44:32to residents we announced via media release on october the 21st the waste management corporation

2:44:38of canada is circular materials preferred proponent to collect recycling and wealth the city will

2:44:44continue to provide recycling collection at the waste resource innovation center through arrangements

2:44:49with circular materials come january circular materials will handle processing of the material

2:44:54that collects and wealth so that our materials recovery facility is ceasing processing operations

2:45:01over 2025 the city will also study how to continue recycling and facilities that are not served under

2:45:06the province's regulation such as churches non-profits and downtown businesses in alignment

2:45:12with the downtown infrastructure renewal program looking ahead to 2026 the blue box regulation

2:45:19will become fully implemented which means enterians will all be recycling the same materials from an

2:45:24expanded list free recycling through circular materials will expand to schools non-profit

2:45:30long-term care and retirement homes and multi-residential buildings that the city does not currently

2:45:34collect and we will no longer be uh permitted to co-mingle commercial and residential recyclables

2:45:41anywhere within the system including the downtown i'll now pass it over to mr welch who will discuss

2:45:47the six elements of the program uh thank you very much nectar uh chair class and and council

2:45:57i will quickly go over the six key elements of our transition plan and the highlights and then

2:46:02we'll uh close it with some next steps in terms of service transition as mentioned earlier we've

2:46:10notified the community that waste management is cmo's preferred contractor for providing

2:46:18blue box service moving forward and that customer service require calls and so forth will go through

2:46:24waste management moving forward as of january 1st 2025 um the city will still be collecting uh as

2:46:32mentioned by nectar um recycles at the pdo under contract with circular material materials and uh

2:46:39there are no changes to organics waste or yard waste collections those services will still be

2:46:46provided by city forces um and in terms of the downtown as mentioned by nectar we're we are uh

2:46:54currently uh working to provide services in the interim in the interim the downtown relative to

2:47:00commercial and business um non-eligible sources while we work through a value from um sorry a

2:47:06user fee study as a result of the value for money audit that was presented in september

2:47:14in terms of the communication and community engagement um element uh communications are

2:47:21underway as mentioned we have some out currently including social media uh web ads and streaming

2:47:27ads as well we'll be putting up materials on transit shelters and so forth the communication

2:47:33will run through the new year through january and february specifically for the transit shelters

2:47:40and um our key messages of course our sorting is still as important as it ever was uh so uh

2:47:45for qualifights to continue to sort and do their best with respect to that and then again that

2:47:50garbage organics and yard waste remains city uh city run and um provided leading up to 2026 you'll

2:47:58see uh renewed communications uh with respect to um the expanded blue box so in in terms of full

2:48:06implementation the province will have additional materials added to the blue box that's significant

2:48:11in that that could mean as much as 25 percent of materials currently in our gray stream migrating

2:48:17into recycle stream which could lead to cost savings for the city further down the road

2:48:25in terms of the next element a staff transition and business continuity we've worked continue to

2:48:31work and have worked in consultation with hr and qp to develop our transition strategy for staff

2:48:38we successfully aligned attrition retirement and vacancies as appropriate to mitigate uh

2:48:43bumping for the collective agreement by about one-third um we're free to working to retain

2:48:48this talented staff obviously within our within our uh city services and of course maintain

2:48:54business performance and to date we've successfully maintained both financial and environmental

2:48:58performance uh through that process in terms of asset transition there are many assets associated

2:49:05with the blue box program currently we're building stationary equipment etc so um you may recall

2:49:13recent discussions around the mirf we're looking to repurpose the material recovery facility to house

2:49:18other planned needs uh and and create some synergies there uh stationary equipment will

2:49:26be decommissioned that's things like belts and so on and so forth in the machines t-tex things like

2:49:30that mobile equipment such as the trucks we're looking to transition those to the new service

2:49:35provider or to auction and then the new service provider waste management will be assuming the

2:49:41carts which is a sale of assets which we're working with waste management on currently

2:49:50in terms of the customer service transition lots of work has gone in in advance with both service

2:49:55wealth and environmental services business services division and customer facing teams

2:50:01and essentially there's a no wrong door approach so we will get folks to the right place as

2:50:05efficiently as possible to have their their customer service concerns addressed and then

2:50:12finally moving forward we'll be monitoring and evaluating the the effects of the change so for

2:50:19instance we mentioned the 25 percent that will potentially migrate out of the gray bin we'll

2:50:25continue through auditing to see how that works through customer service calls you know obviously

2:50:31the data at the at the waste resource innovation center the scale data customer service metrics and

2:50:37then of course financial reporting through variance monitoring and trend analysis

2:50:43and with that then next steps are to continue with our transition plan to continue to monitor and

2:50:49participate in the transition rollout it's been an iterative process and council's been with us

2:50:54through that support staff through the transition finalize the sale of assets as mentioned previously

2:51:00and then continue with our communications and supports to the community and as we work towards

2:51:05the janny refers to a transition date so that concludes our presentation thank you very much

2:51:12thank you for the presentation mr. walsh and mr. tampa tampa coplas i'm gonna get it before we go

2:51:20to questions and comments i'd like to go to greg dorval he is our delegate uh is he in the room

2:51:27nope there's no greg dorval all right so we have no delegates uh for um this item so i with that i

2:51:35will go i will ask um to put the recommendation on the floor can i have a mover and a seconder i have

2:51:42or work and um alt um so that puts the report on the floor entitled blue box transition status

2:51:50update dated november 5th 2024 be received um and i'll go to questions or work and or work for now

2:52:01okay thank you chair class and um through you to our staff i'm a communications person right

2:52:08so you know a ton about this you've been seeing it coming for five years we've seen it we've

2:52:15discussed it in every budget um i know that the staff report says announced upcoming transition

2:52:22changes and then more communication in january but i'm wondering how robust is the communication

2:52:29strategy is it more than the digital ads that we're seeing our it's a fractured communication

2:52:36market in wealth so what's our tactic to make sure that everyone understands how the changes

2:52:41affect them and also the benefits of you know you'll be able to put more in your recycling etc

2:52:46so what what does the rest of the comm strategy look like because i've been putting it in my newsletter

2:52:51for years people are still surprised when i say we're getting out of the blue blocks business

2:52:57um so so what does it look like what can citizens of wealth residents of wealth expect to see in

2:53:03terms of communication so that they understand what's happening through you chair class and

2:53:10do councillor or work um we have a multi prong communication strategy uh that uh takes us up

2:53:16to january first and then re-engages with the community as we get closer to 2026 um it's essentially

2:53:23several uh forward-facing um proactive communications through multiple media outlets

2:53:29um we do know that that um uh you know getting saturation is difficult as you've mentioned

2:53:37so there it's backed up by continued customer service um and uh and uh integrated customer

2:53:45service with the new service provider um so for any folks who miss the communications we have it

2:53:51backed up with our customer service support the intent of this is to be seamless so so really the

2:53:56first part of the transition um we're not going to see any change in collection day so it'll be

2:54:02minor changes like um for instance the blue box may be collected a little later so we can anticipate

2:54:08calls around things like why wasn't my blue box collected we'll we anticipate a bit of a spike

2:54:13there councillor orc and those types of questions based on our experience and then that will taper

2:54:17off um uh we will continue our messaging around um you know keeping your materials in your blue box

2:54:25um setting it at 6 30 a.m um the waste management truck again maybe a little bit later those sorts

2:54:32of things um and so others who have who've transitioned before us have seen a spike and then

2:54:37a decline in similar communication tactics so so it's really a multiple prompt approach and then

2:54:43and then we'll monitor and and then also um if there's a need we'll continue to target communications

2:54:49as well um so through you chair class and to uh mr. walsh so um that's helpful in terms of understanding

2:54:58who's now you know picking up your recycling um one thing that's exciting about this transition though

2:55:05tell me if i get the number wrong we'll be able to put about 30 more things in the blue box right

2:55:10that's great we anticipate about 25 yes okay so so is that a different strategy in terms of what you

2:55:16can put in your blue box uh what's the plan to get people excited about that actually because it

2:55:21could mean a lot more diversion again the in 20 as we move towards 2026 getting closer to that that's

2:55:28when the communication plan um uh comes to life uh in terms of the tactics um i would need to uh

2:55:37actually go provide the communication plan to i don't have it handy but it would it's multiple

2:55:41prong to councillor or work and i don't have uh in front of me other than the tactics we have here

2:55:50the the specific tactics okay thanks yep thank you councillor or councillor Allt please

2:56:02how's our hearing chair class um i'm actually following up on a very similar line to what

2:56:08councillor or work was uh raising i was going to ask about the 25 percent and the items that

2:56:14might be constituted and sure we don't have a complete list uh the comment about seamlessness

2:56:21is is really important and i think that this too is another teachable moment um uh are we going to

2:56:27be seeing within the community more fewer or about the same uh community members with blue boxes

2:56:38in other words we'll expand will we reduce it uh where are we going with it through you chair class

2:56:46and to councillor Allt we will see the same amount of blue boxes in the community so waste management

2:56:52plans to purchase our existing complement of blue boxes and then moving forward at the

2:56:58the established service levels the blue box program will expand uh with with growth so it will expand

2:57:05and continue uh within the regime so we won't see say condominium corporations that notice any

2:57:11difference in in uh they're perhaps a private service um that's that's really all that i was

2:57:17getting at um is there any prediction on the percentage diversion that we might experience

2:57:22because i expect with 25 percent increase in items that we would see diversion going up i think it's

2:57:29for about 60 percent right now uh do we have any any understanding of where new capacity will be

2:57:38through you councillor through chair class and to councillor Allt that's a 25 percent uh that would

2:57:42be a 25 percent increase so that's 25 less waste uh that would then be diverted into the recycling

2:57:50system based on our data so what do we see about 85 percent recycled and wealth because that's

2:57:55that's a great number more like 75 percent i think would be yep yep that's a great number too thanks a

2:58:02lot potentially yep thanks great thank you councillor Allt um are there any more questions

2:58:08just questions at this point no okay i have a couple of questions um mine are some simple

2:58:14questions for the end users so um i am uh i'm a i get my waste collected every week like everyone

2:58:23else in this room and i just want to know for example if um you know i need a new blue

2:58:28cart gets you know damaged or destroyed how do i go about doing that and then for other

2:58:34changes to the program maybe you can just give me a heads up on like those day to day things that

2:58:39might change for me thank you uh chair class and uh so you would call um the service provider

2:58:48which would be waste management if if the count if the resident happens to call the city we would

2:58:55seamlessly transition that that call to the right folks on uh who are responsible accountable then

2:59:00for the blue box program um and then any changes moving forward uh would would be communicated

2:59:07through waste management and and actually circular materials ontario would be the folks who would

2:59:14would communicate anything related to blue box we would support those uh we envision supporting

2:59:18those types of communications uh because it is a somewhat integrated uh my customer perspective

2:59:25okay thank you and so and that information about how to contact

2:59:30wm that will be available on the website absolutely yes okay perfect thank you um and then i just have

2:59:35one more um i just wanted to ask about the downtown i said on the dgba and i know that the rules are

2:59:41a little bit different for them and maybe some other institutions so i just wonder if you could

2:59:45just quickly speak to that will they continue to receive collection um and and what those changes

2:59:50might be in the future with council support for 2025 uh collections in the downtown will remain

2:59:58as they are now while we work through the uh the user fee uh study and bring recommendations

3:00:04recommendations forward um probably in q3 of of 2025 with respect to potential options for the

3:00:11downtown potentially uh things could change but could potentially see more bins things like that

3:00:16down the road however we're working to to understand that better and to make that as seamless uh and

3:00:23painless as possible okay great thank you um and we'll council hear hear back about about that next

3:00:30year okay great thank you um that's it for me so i'm just going to go to comments and just see if

3:00:37there's anybody who has a comment before we go to the vote i'm not seeing anything so thank you for

3:00:43the presentation and and the and the time here um so i'd like to just put the recommendation

3:00:49on the screen please before i call the vote i've already read it once so it's it's up there um i'd

3:00:56like to um call the vote so all those who are against please raise your hand i see no hands

3:01:05raised so that passes unanimously uh so the recommendation carries um thank you staff and

3:01:13thank you colleagues for bearing with me as i chair my very first meeting and it is no longer my first

3:01:19rodeo thank you um and then finally uh i just wanted to ask if there's any uh servant i don't

3:01:27have any announcements but i believe cam cam mayor cam guthary does over to you thank you chair

3:01:36carly cawson uh tomorrow night i am joining wards is it three and four yes three and four at the

3:01:47west end center at six thirty for uh another town hall in regards to the budget so hopefully everyone

3:01:53can come out and tonight i know there might be some competing interest with other kind of

3:02:00politics but tonight if you really want to have a good time come and hang out on my facebook page

3:02:07so mayor cam guthary on facebook i will be having a virtual town hall and you i've been told you

3:02:13don't need to own or have a facebook account to get on i did not know that till today uh but uh so

3:02:19you can it's mayor cam guthary uh and uh that's at six thirty as well um and with that thank you

3:02:27chair that's all the announcements i have thank you thank you mayor guthary um and i think that's

3:02:33all for announcements so i would like to call for a chairman uh mayor guthary and uh councillor

3:02:40galler um so all those against and that's no one um have a good night everyone and thank you very much