Heritage Advisory Committee

0:02Chair, I'll turn it over to you to begin the meeting when you're ready.

0:07Perfect, thank you.

0:08And I think our all committee members online and I don't think there's any committee members,

0:12no one staff members I'll say, in the City Hall meeting room.

0:16So, makes it easy for me.

0:19All right, well, welcome everyone.

0:21I'd like to call to order the July 16, 2026 meeting of the Heritage Advisory Committee.

0:26Welcome to all committee members, staff, and invited guests who are attending this meeting today.

0:32I'll move us into our Indigenous territorial acknowledgement.

0:36As we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in Guelph,

0:41a city built over rich Indigenous histories.

0:44We are guests here and we should reflect upon responsibility to care for this land,

0:49the people who live here today, and the generations to come.

0:53If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation,

0:56we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

1:00This place to call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time,

1:06but more specifically, the Atta Wanderang and the Haudenosaunee.

1:10This land is held as treaty lids and territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation.

1:15Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman Tract

1:18and is part of a long-established traditional hunting ground for the six nations of the Grand River.

1:23Many First Nations Inuit and Métis peoples who have come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today.

1:29We'll move into item 2.2 and I'll just ask at this time if there is anyone that has a

1:37pecuniary interest in any items on the agenda and to disclose it now, please.

1:42We are good to move along and then we'll get into the approval of the minutes from the June 4th meeting.

1:55So is there someone that will move the recommendation for the minutes?

2:00Thank you, Piper, a seconder.

2:05Thank you, Justin. All those in favor?

2:11Thanks, everyone.

2:18Next, we have the Consent Agenda.

2:20So there are quite a few items in there and I'll just ask if there are any comments or questions on any of the items that are in the Consent Agenda?

2:28No, there are quite a bunch this morning.

2:35All right, then.

2:36Is there someone that will move the recommended motion for the Consent Agenda?

2:42David, is that your hand up?

2:43Sorry, yep. Justin, I'll take you as a seconder if that's okay.

2:45And then all those in favor?

2:47Oh, yeah, I don't see you on screen.

2:53Sorry, I see everybody, but Kelly's cameras just stopped. That's all. Thank you.

2:58Sorry to interrupt. I know I get it. It's lunchtime.

3:01All right. Thanks, everyone.

3:05So we'll move right along then into the committee items.

3:08So our first is item 4.1, which we will turn to Jack on.

3:13Thank you, Chair.

3:16I hope you've all had an opportunity to review the draft or Heritage Conservation District Plan.

3:26The statutory meeting to place on Tuesday where we heard feedback from both the public and council on the draft plan.

3:35So this is now the committee's opportunity to provide feedback on the plan.

3:40We are aiming to have it finalized by early August so that we can bring it to council for final approval and passing of the bylaw at their September 9th council planning meeting.

3:56So from the get go, we envision this plan to be something that was really shaped by the community members that live within the proposed Heritage District.

4:05Something we heard loud and clear at all of the open houses from residents was that they really wanted something that would protect the heritage within the district without placing too much restriction on a property owner's ability to make alterations to their property.

4:24So the plan that we present is different than other Heritage Conservation District Plans.

4:31It's really not a cookie cutter plan. It doesn't have very rigorous restrictions on what you can and can't do to your property.

4:40What its primary goal is is to preserve the heritage buildings that are there, prevent demolition of those buildings.

4:50But leave a high degree of latitude for property owners to make changes to those buildings, which we actually saw that as almost a heritage attribute of the district in itself because people have historically been doing kind of wacky things with their properties in the district for decades.

5:10And we didn't want to kind of infringe on that creativity.

5:16So we have streamlined the permit process significantly.

5:23So things like minor permits, major permits, demolition and new construction will all be approvable at the staff level with consultation from the Heritage Committee.

5:41So we're not bypassing the committee at all.

5:45In an instance where either staff refuse an application or the committee recommends refusal of an application, then it would go to council for a decision.

5:58But in the circumstance where both staff and the committee are of a mind on a heritage permit, then it can be approved by the general manager of planning and building.

6:08So we did this mainly to streamline the permit process that would cut approval times in half by 50% if it is approved by staff and the committee rather than having to go all the way to a council meeting.

6:26We've also exempt a number of alterations from heritage permits altogether.

6:34Things like rear yard additions are exempt, dormers are exempt.

6:42Many aesthetic changes to property exteriors are exempt.

6:49Something we heard from council on Tuesday.

6:53We had stated that side yard additions and ADUs would require a minor permit, but council wanted full exemption for accessory dwelling units so that there were less impediments in the way of increasing housing in the district.

7:11So that's something we're going to look at as we finalize the draft plan for September.

7:21So that's as broad a summary as I can provide.

7:26I'm happy to answer any specific questions if folks have questions about specific policy or objectives in the plan.

7:38Thanks, Jack. I'll turn it to the committee. Are there questions, comments, thoughts?

7:49Just go ahead.

7:51Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is we're going to have heritage permits for alterations within the district. Will all of them come to the committee or just some of them? And what kinds of stuff can we expect to give advice about?

8:10Thank you, Justin. So right now in our heritage permit guidelines, like the way they function within the city is that minor permits are approvable just at the staff level.

8:23And these are usually things that either can't be seen from the right way or generally like a pool in someone's backyard or a deck that is invisible from the sidewalk.

8:38So we expanded the scope on that for the ward just to, again, increase approval timelines.

8:48So it's major permits, new construction and demolition would all come through the committee. So that's things like an addition that would add a story to a property or conceal the facade in some way.

9:07A demolition of a contributing property would come to the committee. So that's any of the properties identified as contributing to the cultural heritage value of the district as well as any new construction.

9:22So in terms of what the committee can provide guidance on, obviously, any member can choose to provide whatever guidance they so wish.

9:34So the plan, again, not being too resourced and relatively broadly. Anyway, we did this.

9:52So that can be a way of how the property may be compared to the district. So whether that's through form or materiality or functionality.

10:04We wanted to leave a lot of room for essentially good design and creative design.

10:13But also the committee has an opinion on what is compatible in the district as well as that. So I envision heritage permits in the ward being more of a discussion instead of kind of a black and white checking the boxes as to whether certain prescribing criteria or a matter or not.

10:37I hope that answers your question. I know it's relatively vague, but that was kind of the difficulty with this plan was making something that's flexible, but also like clear and easy to understand.

10:51There's some gray area in there, but I hope that in practice that generates more creativity and interesting design and flexibility for property owners to be able to.

11:05Yeah.

11:07Make some wacky weird decisions with your properties, which is in keeping with the history of the neighborhood.

11:13Back our wacky and weird defined in the plan.

11:19We.

11:21I want you don't you don't have to answer. Don't worry.

11:25I'm going to comment on this. I say weird because that's that was something that residents said to us.

11:32One of the open houses when we're talking about the objectives of the district, they said keep the word weird. And I thought that was such a good.

11:43And concise kind of description of what the objective of the plan is is to kind of.

11:49Maintain this unique character in this neighborhood that is.

11:53Oh, very people kept saying keep the vibe the same too.

11:58So I found those kinds of directives very helpful from the community.

12:04Thank you. Sorry, but you're on the spot with that paper.

12:09Yeah, this might have been answered in that, but I was curious about the language around encouraging and discouraging.

12:15So is that something just to highlight like in this text where that would come up in your conversations with people on permits?

12:21Is that how that sort of translates?

12:25Yeah, that's that's a good question.

12:27So within the plan, there are policies which are enforceable.

12:32And those identifiable by.

12:37Shout there are guidelines which are not enforceable. It's meant to be a suggestion.

12:42And property owners as they're considering all the regions of properties. So those are the types of things that I would have a conversation with property owners about those guidelines and encourage them, but that they would not be.

12:54They would not be grounds for refusing a permit if somebody chose not to abide by those guidelines specifically.

13:01Any other questions, comments?

13:12Maybe I can't tell if your hand is up. Is that you had a thought or no?

13:29I'm looking for every subtle gesture right now apparently. Kelly.

13:35I was just a comment that I really appreciate the plan isn't sort of just trying to preserve a moment in time, you know, and it the theme that runs through it is just, you know, I love the weird.

13:47I'm all about weird.

13:49But the theme that runs through it is just that the word has always adapted and changed and, you know, the goal here is just to try to guide some of that evolution while retaining this distinctive kind of feel to it so I think you guys.

14:05That was not an easy task.

14:07That's a that's a toughie but I think you did a great job with it.

14:12Thank you Kelly.

14:21I think we're going to go back to the last one.

14:23I'll take this over then to the recommended motions I guess and note that there's an opportunity to present a commutation at the September 9th Council planning meeting.

14:37Jack, for clarity, is that during the day or is that at night that meeting?

14:43It's going to be a marathon meeting.

14:47It's the last the last council meeting prior to the municipal election so I understand there's a lot of items I don't know that a start time has been determined nor when this item would be in the agenda.

15:01So all I can say is September 9th, most likely in the afternoon.

15:09Okay.

15:11So I'll look to the committee then is there anyone available on the 9th to attend. We have orientation in my program that day before we start back on campus so I mean it turns into the evening, which hopefully it doesn't for folks I could absolutely try to get to that but is there anyone that's available and would like to go and represent the committee.

15:39I may be able to go I'll be back in Guelph for my work and I just might have to file, depending on the time I might have to file ahead of time to be from training if it's going to be in the middle of the day, but I should be able to attend.

15:56If it does push a time later I'm happy to also go with paper but it'll depend on the timing of course of things because mandatory orientation for better or worse.

16:06So for okay we'll put pipe or as long as that that does work for your schedule will put paper in there and then I can confirm as well later.

16:15So is there someone that will move the recommendations. Thank you paper a seconder Justin all those in favor.

16:27Excellent.

16:29Thanks everyone.

16:33We're sticking with Jack though so 4.2 Jack let's talk heritage financial incentives.

16:39Thank you very much chair.

16:43So this has I think been a long time coming for Guelph.

16:50In the cultural heritage action plan one of the recommendations was development of a conservation grant program for designated properties.

17:02So I have created a background report that was also shared with council on Tuesday just to provide kind of a jurisdictional scan to see what other municipalities are doing and what other types of financial incentives are offered by other municipalities.

17:22So my intention is to seek direction from council at the September 9th council planning meeting. The same one the board is going to for direction on developing a grant program.

17:39So for the next month I'm going to be working on a kind of a proposal for such a program.

17:50So what most restoration grant programs take is that the city will have a certain amount of money budgeted and either have often it takes the form of like 5 to 10,000 dollar matching grant for restoration projects.

18:10So that's likely what will be proposed to council and we'll do this through creation of a community improvement plan for designated properties.

18:20Now, receiving direction to begin working on that does not mean that we'll have a grant program immediately that has to be approved through budget.

18:33The next multi-year budget cycle will be approved in 2028. So that's the time when working forward. But again, I'm happy to get some traction on this because as you can imagine as a heritage planner, my job would be infinitely easier if I was able to point towards any form of financial incentive,

18:55especially when it comes to discussing designation with property owners who may have some reservations about designation and any perceived financial impact.

19:08So I'm happy to take any comments or suggestions or answer any questions on this. Thank you.

19:17I'm going to comment that I think is fantastic. I agree. It'll absolutely help. And in a previous municipal planning experience, where I worked, we had these and I know they're well used mostly through CIPs.

19:34I don't know of any straight up grants for it, but they were absolutely depleted every year because it was a very popular program for sure. So happy to see that. Kelly?

19:48Just I am. Can I just confirm? It doesn't look from this that tax relief is one of the things that is being considered. Can you confirm that that's not part of this or is there a desire to encourage council to go further at some point and explore that as well as grants?

20:10So at this point, the cultural heritage action plan just recommends a grant program. There is a provincial tax relief program that enables municipalities to provide a 10 to 40% tax rebate for property taxes.

20:29And the province will cover the portion of taxes lost for sort through that rebate.

20:42However, so in considering all of these different incentives, I think the tax rebate program incentivizes designation. Whereas what I think is most appealing about a restoration grant is that it actions specific restoration projects.

21:08And also, because it's a matching grant, it generates private investment in cultural heritage resources as well. So I really see the value in a tax rebate program.

21:25But I think because the goal is conservation necessarily not incentivizing designation. At this moment, we're just focused on a grant program.

21:45Thank you, Madam Chair. I am glad to hear that overview, Jack. You detail a number of instruments in the report, the different ways you could offset the costs that owners have to maintain heritage properties or commence restorations works.

22:04My question, though, is basically, is there a benefit or what's the rationale, I suppose, to to awarding grants through CIP, like to my mind, if it's through CIP, it has extra rules because it's a planning act thing.

22:21And why couldn't we just establish a grant program that's more tailored to our own set of criteria and so on.

22:30Thank you, Justin.

22:35I may have to take that one away and get back to you. I'm planning is mostly familiar with using CIPs for grants and loans. Like we we've established one for accessory dwelling units that has been quite successful.

22:55So I think mechanistically, it's something that the city is more familiar with. We have a blueprint for this and finances familiar with using CIPs for grants and loans.

23:10But that is something that I will come back to you with more information on why specifically CIP is being used.

23:19Justin, did you have something else to add to or?

23:29Yeah, that's okay, Sarah. I will just brief this follow up. That's that's great, Jack. That's totally fine. I don't I don't know if there's a benefit to pursuing it one way or the other.

23:37I'm sure CIP is a totally appropriate model for awarding these grants. I just know that CIP is prescribed and the way CIP is delivered is prescribed.

23:47So I just would put it out there that I wonder if there's more flexibility to be gained from establishing a grant program just on its own that doesn't rely on the Planning Act rules about CIP.

24:01The only other thing I was going to say in terms of a comment, I think that pursuing a grant program that's tailored to projects is better than a blanket tax relief program.

24:14I also would just put it out there that I'm curious to know if there's a role for the committee in providing advice about awards as the city receives applications.

24:24I don't know if that's been contemplated yet or more to come on that, but that's my last question.

24:28Thank you. That is something that I have envisioned is that either the committee will provide input on the grant applications or perhaps like a subcommittee could be appointed to assist staff in reviewing the grant applications.

24:50But that's something that will provide more detail on through the proposal that's brought forward in September.

25:09Kelly and then Piper.

25:13Thanks. I know it's, I don't believe it's in there right now in terms of thresholds and that kind of thing, but just was thought I would mention and I don't know if it's something that can be baked into that report.

25:27But as a program like this, you know, sort of develops over time, I wonder if accessibility could be, you know, considered in there because I know there's a lot of sort of grant programs and the like and unintentionally kind of favor property owners that frankly already have the capacity financially to undertake significant restoration projects and that kind of thing.

25:52You know, so sometimes it's really just the case of a window, you know, it doesn't necessarily need to be a $50,000, you know, big project so it's, it's kind of an unintended unintended consequence but I just wonder if there's any desire to sort of make this more accessible to those that don't have the means for the larger stuff.

26:18Thank you, Kelly. I, this is a really good comment and one that I hope we can capture in the minutes because I'm not aware of any grant programs that are geared towards income or finances in any way but that's definitely something we'll consider when putting this together.

26:40And this is mostly just a comment but I would think that with the 2027 deadline coming up and needing in in pretty immediate future to have more people volunteering their properties be put on the register I would think this is a really good way to make that happen and it comes at a time that would be good for it.

27:05So I would just support that.

27:07Thank you. And Justin.

27:16Yeah, thanks Madam Chair. I think that my, it was supposed to be my last comment. This is actually my last comment, which is that one is it's a question when we ultimately roll out this program, would it be, would we prioritize some kinds of buildings or uses or projects over others, as in like a public benefit, like a public or nonprofit kind of use or property seeking to do

27:45a restoration project versus a private use or property where the public wouldn't otherwise won't actually have access to the property, even though it's restoration is still important. It's, it's a different kind.

27:55So that's a question which I will park for a second and also make a comment, which is that I would just put it out there if it hasn't already been contemplated, which is a nice way to showcase designations and the city could absorb the cost of this is to absorb

28:14the cost of plaques for properties. It's a very small financial incentive I don't know if it even is a financial incentive per se, but a different one way we could offset costs is to say like you get a plaque you get this to showcase and educate about the

28:31property, especially for folks of pride and ownership of owning the heritage home or property. If that could somehow be incorporated into this like part of a facade improvement is that you add a commemorative kind of plaque to the facade and it

28:44should talk to us the story the heritage story so those are my two things.

28:50Thank you just and I'll answer those in reverse order if that's okay.

28:55So we we have historically provided plaques to all property owners of designated properties.

29:05The provision of those is budget dependent, obviously, and we are now looking at the most designations in the city's history so

29:17rolling those plaques out may occur over several years but it is our intention to give all the designated properties of property.

29:29As to the first question so I actually administered the heritage grant program at the city of Ottawa during my time there and one of the criteria that was considered was whether the heritage attribute that was proposed for restoration was public facing in some

29:49ways so was it you know on the facade of the house or like near public right away and also what was it for a public space of some sort so like a space that is if it's an interior feature isn't accessible to the public.

30:09And that was definitely a criteria that was applied to the grant applications was yeah accessibility and visibility for the public.

30:23Yeah this is somewhat jumping ahead of it in the schedule but would the grant program in any way interact with item 4.3 that's the use of salvaged materials if say a property owner were to make use of materials from the city with that subtract from any dollar amount of a grant.

30:47I don't think it would necessarily subtract from a dollar amount so generally how the matching grants work is a property owners are required to provide two to three quotes on a project and then provisional matching grant amount is approved and then a property owner brings the city the total receipt that it costs and the city will pay.

31:17Up to the amount that was initially approved.

31:20If that makes sense so if if the city were providing stone.

31:27Free of cost that may just lower the overall project.

31:33I see.

31:35I hope that that answers the question.

31:38I think so.

31:39Jack as this moves forward and so once you sort of have here's the programs that we're hopefully going to go out with and we this is like a draft of criteria as an example of that I'll come back to the committee to review and provide comment on.

31:55Yeah so I think the the intention is to bring a proposal to council in September.

32:04And then as staff are developing the terms of reference for the grant program and the CIP.

32:13We the committee would be consulted during that process.

32:20Thank you.

32:23I dropped into the chat three bullets that I captured and apologies if I've missed something so any of the additional discussion can also be added if someone wants to have an additional item for the second part of the recommendation.

32:38Not always easy to transcribe live and try to collect as things are being discussed but if there is one if something's missing from those three bullets Justin yet.

32:48Yeah thanks Sarah it's very minor it looks great just the comment that Jack made if we could record it in the motion about public versus a public facing attributes and if it's an interior attribute that the public have access to it I should give you better language than that but like maybe

33:06Jack has a suggestion but I think it's already being contemplated but it could be part of our advice.

33:11So something about like criteria for the grants should consider whether the public can you or have access to the feature or something along those something along those lines Jack totally open to alternative language there if you like.

33:28I'll pay something into the chat and then read it out.

33:36Well Jack's doing that did you want to add it was there another bullet to be added.

33:41Yeah I'm just wondering if since from what I understand we're mostly in support of this if adding just a line saying that we we encourage this be passed and that this be supported would be helpful.

33:57Yes, sorry.

34:04Oh come on screen for us soon.

34:22What I proposed that that public use and visibility of heritage action foods be prioritized for restoration.

34:36I want to share a comment does the first part of the recommendation that we are in support of this achieve what you're hoping for would you like an extra bullet added that just we know you're totally right sorry.

34:47It's okay I love hitting over the head you know many times let's just show our support everywhere but if you're okay with that first part then we can leave it there.

34:57And I think Jordan will probably get it on screen for all of us.

35:05Sorry just with that last point I agree that public use is important but I'm also wondering how putting that forward would impact things like you know if someone's in the middle of winter and they need a window for stored do we want to prioritize that over the facade of a public building.

35:21I would maybe consider more like nuance in that just with the fact that there are like more base needs that might need to be taken into consideration.

35:31Could it be just simply adding as appropriate at the end of that bullet so public use and visibility of heritage attributes be prioritized for be prioritized for restoration as appropriate.

35:45Did that given a flexibility I see a mystery thumbs up note there okay thank you.

35:49Just popped up on screen for us and you know I do was from.

35:54Yeah I will note there may be circumstances for example if.

35:59If there is a slain roof identified as a heritage attribute that is is leaking but that is at the rear of the building that jeopardizes the entire building so in a circumstance like that even though it's not necessarily visible I think there are definitely.

36:19A certain projects that would take.

36:23They may threaten you the entire building.

36:38So folks a second to read through the bullets there.

36:43Yeah thanks sir I wonder maybe just to give more clarity or context for that first bullet to financially should be considered we could say like financial and functional needs should be considered like if it threatens the function of the use or of the structure.

37:02There could be some good reason to kick them up the queue.

37:07It's a good point.

37:17Stephen.

37:20Yeah, Sarah I just thought I would suggest that in.

37:25In the first, first point that the program for the conservation of designated heritage properties.

37:34Just assist the term designation is sometimes used in other contexts.

37:39You could even consider saying designate properties designated under.

37:44I've got to re-reject that might be a bit wordy, but I just wanted to make sure that the public understands that.

37:52You don't mind where do you think.

37:59That would be part part is capitalized and four and five are Roman numerals.

38:26And it would be the Ontario heritage act.

38:29Sorry, just in the interest of clarity.

38:32Yeah, there are comments from anyone.

38:53Not all ask if someone would like to move it because I can't really see very many folks if you just want to unmute and share that you'd be happy.

39:06Kelly as a mover and a second will take fiber.

39:08All those in favor.

39:10Excellent.

39:11Thanks everyone.

39:12Stephen really quick anecdote.

39:14I was in England for a conference and some of the new rules in one of the buildings and there was tons of them.

39:18So we're trying to figure out what it was.

39:20It was very impressive.

39:21It was established in 1996, but it just made it look fancy in a very old district to have the Roman numerals.

39:27It caught us all trying to figure out the math.

39:31With that, we will go back to Stephen now for item 4.3.

39:36Great.

39:37Thanks chair chair, Sarah.

39:40And I'd like to share my screen. So I'll do that first.

39:45And what I'm sharing is the PowerPoint presentation images that that I'm sure you've all had an opportunity to review my comment.

39:54My presentation today will will serve as a bit of an update for some of the information that's in that was initially published through the agenda.

40:04Just give me one second here to get my notes in front of me.

40:08So item 4.3 is its title. It's heritage limestone donation policy. It's not just about limestone.

40:19It's just really refers to all stone that's been stored historically by the city.

40:29So before going in this, I wanted to introduce Brittany Manley is one of our policy planners and Emily Irvine, who's our manager of policy planning.

40:40They're both here in attendance at the meeting.

40:42And I'm working with Brittany and Emily to develop a formal donation policy and process for salvaged heritage stone materials currently held by the city.

40:53They are to be used for approved repairs to city owned designated properties and for dedications, art installations, or other features in public spaces or parks.

41:06It's important to understand that we're also exploring the possibility of this program to become a non financial incentive for privately owned designated heritage properties.

41:24So a bit of background.

41:28Just getting caught up with my notes here. So over many years, the city of Guelph has accumulated a large quantity of stone materials.

41:36There were salvaged from the demolition of built heritage resources within the city.

41:44As you can see, there's, as you saw, there are examples.

41:47Sorry, I'm just trying to get my slides to work.

41:57I'm not really here. And these examples, one, a good one, then more recent is the demolition of what's known or was known as the short read firm hosts.

42:07It was a property that was a house that was built in the north end of the city in about 1840.

42:14So the image on the left shows the property occupied when it was occupied by a tenant in the summer of 2015.

42:22And on the right, the building was vacant by 2021 and had been secured by boarding.

42:32Then the picture at the middle in the bottom shows the demolition taking place in October of 2021 with the contractor placing the stones on skids that were to be delivered to the city.

42:44Other examples of demolition and in some cases, just partial demolition, that would be the rectory offices at the, beside the Basilica of Our Lady on Catholic Hill.

43:04The, what was the partial demolition was the removal of the 1920s edition. It was demolished for new offices to be built in the summer of 2019.

43:16On the right is an image of the Wilson farmhouse, which was built in 1892.

43:21Following a conservation review board hearing in 2012, the council's notice of intention to designate was withdrawn and the building was allowed to be demolished in the summer of 2014.

43:37Some of the brick salvaged from and stone from that house was stored at the city facility.

43:46Some of you may be quite familiar with one of the older examples of demolition. That's the Mitchell farmhouse that you that did stand on Paisley Road, just west of where Costco was built.

44:00Eventually, the Mitchell farmhouse was built in 1912 and council approved its demolition in September of 2005, following with a at the same time as an Ontario municipal board hearing.

44:14At that time, since before 2009, when I started as the first full time heritage planner at the city salvaged heritage stone materials have been requested to repair or restore protected heritage attributes.

44:36And some of the stone being stored and you can see the photo of the stone in the storage area on the right.

44:46Some of the stones already identified for future use. The stone from the Mitchell farmhouse is located in the in the top area of this image in the site.

44:59And the city agreed reached an agreement with the developer that the stone salvaged from the farmhouse the Mitchell farmhouse would be used by the developer to construct a commemorative structure near where the Mitchell farm site was.

45:13So heritage planning has coordinated the reuse of salvage stone for repairs.

45:24There's a city owned as a need of properties. And this includes work done for on old city hall and the buildings behind the annex building which you see in the picture on the image on the right and the small gatehouse building.

45:42The stones for these works were selected and certified for use by the project architect and contractor.

45:52So, as mentioned in the introduction, we're developing a formal donation process for these salvaged heritage stone materials.

46:05The program might eventually support privately owned designated heritage properties.

46:11The program will continue to support public art and commemorative heritage installations in public spaces or restoration of city owned heritage assets.

46:24And the program in implementation involves updating the inventory of salvaged heritage stone materials.

46:34Creating a policy and procedure for the donation of the materials for for publicly owned designated properties and possibly designated designated private properties, as well as projects, as I mentioned for public art or commemorative installations.

46:52We'll be creating a monitoring and communication program to go with as well.

46:58So the process involved for when requests are made is that online information and application forms for stone materials would be made available.

47:12Heritage planning staff would review the any applications and conduct an initial eligibility confirmation.

47:23The approval would need to be achieved for the materials application and agreements would or an agreement for the use of the heritage stone materials would need to be created and signed.

47:38Heritage planning staff would arrange for applicants to retrieve the material from the storage site.

47:48Now, supporting designated properties, so pending direction from city leadership.

47:54Heritage planning staff will be presenting a policy and procedure for the disposition of the stone materials.

48:02And which would support public and heritage commemorative installations and will continue to explore the project's potential to serve privately owned designated properties.

48:18Sharing stone materials with privately owned properties requires additional consideration regarding safe handling and transportation, as well as the use of heritage stone materials.

48:29So city staff is continuing to work on resolving these matters.

48:35The use of salvage stone materials is planned to be included in a report on potential heritage incentives to council planning in September, which is something Jack's already referred to.

48:47And again, this is pending direction from staff or from city leadership.

48:53And as far as next steps go, I've indicated here today's contact or touch base with the Heritage Advisory Committee and I'm hopeful that the committee would see fit to endorse what's proposed so far in not so much July but likely more in August there'll be a leadership review would be conducted.

49:17And as I mentioned in September that we have potential attendance at city planning or council planning's meeting on this item.

49:27By September and we hope to have information online that would describe the program and what's available.

49:35So I'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have all stop sharing so that everyone can see everyone else.

49:48David go ahead.

49:50Stephen.

49:52Was there anything that caused this to come to light.

49:55Now, and do we have any big supplies of heritage stone that we need to address right now.

50:04Through you chair.

50:08David, I just want to make sure I understand your question what, what has come to light to bring on this particular program.

50:15Yeah, is there anything in particular there are any specific events that have brought it on or it's it's what do you for the timing you certainly are doing developments or province wide initiatives that have brought this to the light right now.

50:36There, there aren't any initiatives that I'm aware of. But what I will say David is that that city, as I've mentioned in the presentation the city for some time now and well before I would became to came to the city, even we're told that even as early as the

50:53late 1960s, 1970s, when St. George's Square was having a lot of demolition happen and materials were actually salvaged from that part of town.

51:07Some of those materials were taken to storage. And although we're not really aware of the location of all of those salvage stones. It's likely that they that we will find them in the update of the inventory of our of our site.

51:27So it's this is a, these are materials that have been stored for some time. They come in as demolitions become approved or demolitions occur.

51:39But what city has, I think the impetus made the major impetus is that the city sees that there is a physical resource here that could be made available that should be made available at the very least to public public facing projects that involve heritage buildings and restoration.

51:59And that's appropriate limestone or granite isn't always easily procured. It's something that that could be a real equal quite a value as something that could be donate like an approved donation to a project.

52:18And that's something that we've been collecting for some time. We now need to formalize the manner in which we can dispose of and and donate to the highest and best use, you know, as much or even all of this material as we can.

52:33Okay, great. Thank you.

52:40Okay.

52:42Yeah, I think Stephen you kind of addressed a bit of my question, but I'm guessing since some of this material has been stored since the 60s the city obviously isn't drawing down the inventory at any appreciable rate.

52:55Has there been a lot of inquiries from private landowners to make use of the material or anticipating opening it up to private entities, you know, being a major draw on the inventory.

53:09We, what we want to do now is, as I've said several times is to formalize the process and have a policy that will guide how this is done.

53:21We are becoming aware of issues, you know, through discussion with our legal services. And that's that's guiding how the discussion at the moment so we're continuing to explore how the, the, how privately owned designated properties might be able to make applications to

53:41access materials.

53:44So, it's, it's a, I hesitate to say this program, because it's not actually a formal program yet. It is a res there are resources that have been known to exist by by the previous Heritage Advisory Committee members and and some of our longer, longer serving

54:05counselors. But one of the, one of the outcomes here is to make the public more aware of this. And, as I said, create a policies but also like a plan to seek out or to invite the best applications or use of these stones in different ways.

54:31It's, I mean, they could be used in in small projects, you know, like replacing a stone windowsill on old city hall, or that or large amounts of stone could be made available or approved for the creation, or the reconstruction, let's say, of, of a missing

54:52stone wall, like just just a hypothetical example if we wanted to re to rebuild one of the walls that are no longer at the Goldie mill site that ruin, there could be stone used for that or stone that might be used to recreate some of the gate posts, let's say at the

55:12interior reformatory. These are just hypothetical examples but but examples of projects that might benefit from the availability of of appropriate stone for public use.

55:30Yeah, I'm just curious about the inventory mentioned the updated inventory. And you mentioned in the presentation several properties that exist and I'm curious to what extent previously or going forward we're keeping track of the properties that are contributing it through their demolition to the

55:48repurposing of the stone. So would there be or is there already an inventory of all the properties that are donating this stone, and what that exchange looks like I mean if someone's rebuilding their property with some limestone do they know where that could

56:01potentially come from.

56:07Just to to help in my answer by Pearl just reshare my screen here just for the one slide.

56:18What what I'm in the process of doing is, do you see the image of the the stone yard here.

56:26I'd mentioned earlier that in this area here, the upper area, almost all of this stone comes from the Mitchell farmhouse demolition.

56:38Almost all the stone that you see in this sort of rectangular area here of stone sitting on pallets. That's from the short read farmhouse. And there are single stones there are groups of stones within this area and over here from several spots not just from the rectory reconstruction

56:57or the rectory demolition on Catholic Hill, but others there I'll be honest with you there are some stones that it's difficult or it may be impossible to know its source, but what we're documenting right now for the inventory is to to create the

57:12inventory in a way that documents everything that we do know about it.

57:17Let's give you one quick example.

57:19I don't think I can zoom in but if you can see my cursor here.

57:24There are two huge pieces of stone that are sort of long and almost rectangular we know those were lentils over top of two of the windows in the short read farmhouse. So when you see the picture.

57:40Here, the huge stone that's overtop that was over top of this window is lying right here waiting for a new use an appropriate new use.

57:53But don't get me talking because I'll talk for the rest of the day about salvage stone and how we could be reusing it.

58:02My questions or comments from anyone.

58:14Seeing none.

58:15No, I'm right there.

58:17Sorry, one more one more question.

58:20Um, to what extent is the stone going to be used to repair existing properties and would that allow opportunities for people to build new properties, because I'm worried or not worried but I'm curious about how we prioritize or how you would prioritize, you know, a window

58:37needing a new lintel versus someone wanting to construct an entire you know, living history museum out of the existing limestone and how that might be handled.

58:48That's a really good question paper and essentially the approach.

58:53The intention of the use of the stone is to be used to restore repair existing heritage attributes of protected heritage property, whether it's an individual property designation or a property within that contributes to a heritage conservation

59:10districts significance.

59:12Now, there may be situations where an application comes in that a project that in the public realm that proposes to create to build something new that commemorates that could be seen as being appropriate as well that but I believe that the main focus of this as an informal project or

59:41or the concept was was always to have the stone used to repair heritage attributes.

59:49Any other questions, comments.

1:00:02No, alright, well then I will ask if there's someone who will move the record.

1:00:10I'm going to go to the motion.

1:00:12Sarah I just had one.

1:00:14I'm clarification for the motion.

1:00:17I may ask that the word limestone be just replaced with heritage stone.

1:00:24Like two, two separate words.

1:00:57The committee supports the development of a heritage to talk today.

1:01:01Heritage stone disposition policy as a non financial incentive for designated properties.

1:01:08Is there someone who will move that motion.

1:01:13Just noting again thank you Kelly I saw your hand up secondary Liam all those in favor.

1:01:20We have those sorry take it off the screen I don't think I can see David or.

1:01:25I feel like everyone is probably trying to eat lunch and I'm just picking on all of you.

1:01:40Thank you everyone.

1:01:42Did you have a question?

1:01:44No, okay.

1:01:46Just you're making sure I see your hand and I appreciate that.

1:01:48Thank you.

1:01:50Before we get into item 4.4, I have one point of clarification for that item.

1:01:54Kay does have a presentation that you'll give the actual PowerPoint presentation.

1:02:00Not sure if it is PowerPoint, but I'll just say it.

1:02:02That wasn't submitted in time for posting the agenda.

1:02:06I will leave it to the committee to vote if you would like to have the presentation that Kay had prepared on screen.

1:02:14I believe Jordan can deliver it.

1:02:16I'll leave it to the committee to vote for that.

1:02:18If you are in favour of the PowerPoint presentation going on screen as Kay is presenting, I'll ask you to put your hand up if you are in favour.

1:02:30If we're through you, do you mind calling for a mover and the seconder?

1:02:41Sure.

1:02:43So to allow Kay's presentation to be on screen during the item 4.4 of the agendas, there's someone who will move that motion.

1:02:55Thank you, Kim.

1:03:04Someone to say something about the presentation or would Kay sharing it?

1:03:06Yes, I will share it.

1:03:13Okay, well thank you very much for the opportunity to speak to you today and to also show my slides, which I really regret.

1:03:19I did not send a long time ago.

1:03:23I wanted to talk to you about Architectural Conservancy Ontario's Heritage Helping Housing Building Grant and seek the City of Gwelf's endorsement.

1:03:33My name is Kay LG, I live in Waterloo.

1:03:37Next slide please.

1:03:41A budget proposal that ACO submitted when there was a call for them last fall.

1:03:45And then subsequently ACO leadership was called in to meet with Ministry of Finance staff and also with staff from the Ministry of Citizenship and Multiculturalism, which is the ministry currently responsible for heritage conservation.

1:04:01And staff suggested we gather support from municipalities for this proposal. So that's why I'm here today.

1:04:09Next slide please.

1:04:11I know that housing is really important concern. It's the Legepul found that housing affordability is still in place.

1:04:21So we realize we can't do much about inflation, but we certainly can do something about increasing the supply of affordable housing.

1:04:33Next slide please.

1:04:35Because there are over 9000 individual properties and over 30,000 part 4 designated properties that are available.

1:04:46And we have a proposal on how to turn these into housing. Go to the next slide.

1:04:52We found our research has shown that the repair and reuse of existing buildings can offer a faster, cheaper and more sustainable path to affordable housing.

1:05:03And here's one example of it from Kitchener. I'm sure you have many in Guelph, but this was a former church that was worthy of heritage designation.

1:05:12That's now 43 supportive housing users.

1:05:16Next slide please.

1:05:18So what are the reasons we feel that this is a good path to create our supply of affordable housing?

1:05:26Well, we found that depending on the scope of the project, adaptive reuse can be much faster than new builds.

1:05:34For one thing, the zoning and infrastructure is already in place.

1:05:38And that can be a big cost saving for municipalities too because they don't have to build sewer lines and water lines out to greenfield developments.

1:05:47Also, adaptive reuse can reduce project costs by as much as 16%, partly by avoiding spending on demolition and also on hauling waste to our rapidly filling landfills and often by reusing a substantial part of the building.

1:06:06And we're particularly stressing the fact that these buildings can be more sustainable because we realize, and we all realize today, climate change are all indoors, you know, and we feel that making buildings more sustainable reduces their carbon footprint and helps prevent more climate disasters and therefore climate mitigation costs that municipalities will end up picking up.

1:06:35But one of the most compelling arguments is the fact that adaptive reuse projects use local labor and they create local jobs.

1:06:44Typically, new builds are 25 to 30% labor while adaptive reuse projects can be as high as 65 to 70%.

1:06:54And these will be Ontario jobs too.

1:06:57So next slide please.

1:07:00So back in 2014, the National Trust for Canada surveyed developers to find out what it would take to get them to add more housing units to heritage buildings.

1:07:12And they said the single best thing would be an incentive program provided that it was simple to apply for an administer and that they would have a one in three chance of getting funds.

1:07:26Next slide.

1:07:28That's why ACO came up with this proposal.

1:07:32We came up with a suggestion that there be a grant fund of at least a million dollars a year that would have simple application and administration.

1:07:42It would encourage owners and developers to retain and renovate heritage buildings.

1:07:47And it would pay 50% of the costs to building owners to renovate heritage buildings to create new housing units.

1:07:55And 50% would be paid on approval to address the cost of borrowing because we've seen that inflation and costs were major concern.

1:08:05Next slide please.

1:08:08So this is a proposal to the government.

1:08:11We realize they may change it, but we hope this is what we're starting with them to consider that it would be for designated properties, either properties designated under part four or part five.

1:08:24That it would create new housing units.

1:08:26We're thinking a matching grant capped at $100,000 per housing unit.

1:08:32The work would adhere to the federal standards and guidelines for the conservation of historic places in Canada.

1:08:39And like the Alberta program, 50% of the approved funding would be provided at the start of construction and the remainder upon completion.

1:08:48So just finish up the next slide please with three examples of projects that if this grant had been in place could have benefited from it.

1:08:58And I'll give you an example of the scope of it. So this is a former Mitchell button factory and Kitchener the working center has now created 44 support of housing units on this using this building.

1:09:11Next one.

1:09:13This is shows this very common scene across Ontario uptowns with with property with units above the main street stores that can be converted in this case this one was created three rental units.

1:09:30So this is one of the buildings that we love this one story shop in the St. Mary's Heritage Conservation District. And the last one is a art deco building in 1930, which is now having two bedroom condos on the upper floors.

1:09:46So that's a very quick overview and again I'm sorry you didn't have the slides ahead of time but I'm interested to read any answer any questions you have and particularly is this a spirit any ideas about building something else that you think could be possible candidates for this program.

1:10:05So that's, that's all I have for now.

1:10:09So take any questions or comments.

1:10:13Okay, Jordan maybe we can stop sharing. Thank you.

1:10:18Questions or comments from committee members.

1:10:26I didn't capture didn't remember the name of the property but the one that had the black sort of modern structure inside the red brick.

1:10:35It sort of looked to me, I might be completely wrong like that it was just the facade of the building. And facade is a really big concern in a lot of places so I'm wondering to what extent this would fund, you know, buildings being reused in the original structure and to what extent it would fund buildings having the facade

1:10:54preserved but then a modern building constructed primarily inside.

1:10:59Well, as I said, this is a proposal we're trying to get a provincial grant fund established that's the real thing we want to do because you know Ontario is the only province that does not have a provincial heritage conservation fund.

1:11:15We had one up till about the 1970s Stephen may remember the days.

1:11:20You know, so so we want to do this government week.

1:11:24But our concern here is to create housing.

1:11:28It's not a conservation a grant but it's to encourage the adaptive reuse.

1:11:34So facade is often means it's demolished except for the facade. So we're encouraging not that kind of approach so much as actually using the existing building and and adding the units to the existing building.

1:11:51I mean there could be some demolition, you know, but but that's that's what we hope this grant will do.

1:12:06Kelly, sorry, with your hand up.

1:12:08I think she's muted. I think you might be muted Kelly.

1:12:12Thank you.

1:12:15Sorry. I think this is great.

1:12:19I just want to comment that you know I think that some ways, one of the best ways to make sure heritage building survives is to make it useful.

1:12:30So, it really is a combination of

1:12:36it's sort of helping into really important areas. We will obviously want to preserve history but

1:12:42people need options and sort of adaptive reuse is just a way to recognize that conservation isn't just about freezing something in time, you know, it really does need to evolve so

1:12:56I just wanted to, you know, let you know that I'm very in support of it. I think

1:13:02I would love to see this come to fruition.

1:13:05Yes. Yes, I we totally agree with you. I mean we we did we are suggesting the criteria would be designated buildings because we want to encourage people to see that as a value.

1:13:17You know, but but again, we are most most encouraging of the adaptive use as you say Kelly, you know, because I mean, I'm primarily a climate activist so that's my big push, you know, I just think it's better for

1:13:34the environment and it's better for the local economy. I mean we gave we give all those reasons.

1:13:45Are there other questions or comments for Kay?

1:13:50I will just say that we have been taking this around to a number of municipalities and meeting with with MPPs and we have been invited to

1:14:02make a present to the Association of Municipalities of Ontario conference in August about this. So if you are meeting your local MPP or city officials who are going to AMO,

1:14:14well actually the presentation is to the Cabinet Caucus, I mean the conservative caucus, not the Cabinet Caucus, the conservative caucus.

1:14:22So any conservative MPPs you are running into in the next little while, please put in a word.

1:14:31Okay, so are you putting the motion on the screen or would you think something flashed earlier I just think it might have been the last motion though.

1:14:49Perfect, thank you. So the motion is that the Heritage Advisory Committee advises City Council to endorse the architectural conservancy Ontario's proposal for $10 million per year heritage helping housing grant program

1:15:03to support the adaptive reuse of heritage buildings to create new housing units. Is there someone that would like to move that motion?

1:15:11Thank you Kelly, a seconder. If you're putting your problems in favour. Thanks everyone and thanks again Kay for the presentation.

1:15:23Well thanks for letting me come it was really interesting meeting and you're doing really great things in growth I learned a lot so it's really fun to come. So thanks.

1:15:33Thank you. All right, last ish item on the agenda is chair announcements I have none but I will look over to Jack Imogen and Steven and see if anyone has any announcements on their side.

1:15:47I will just remind the committee that there will not be an August Heritage Advisory Committee meeting as we take a break that month alongside council.

1:16:03Yeah, I think aside from the ward HCD plan going to council September 9th as well as the heritage incentives proposal. Those are the main things to look out for going to council.

1:16:17Additionally, at our next meeting we we've been so focused on heritage districts and voluntary properties that we have not brought forward any of your designation priorities yet.

1:16:29So, or actually I think we had one on the consent agenda.

1:16:36So we're hoping to start bringing forward more of those during the remaining meetings of the year. So thank you all for today we really appreciate all the comments.

1:16:51I think we're going to have a meeting and our image and to add.

1:16:55Through you chair, I have one or no.

1:16:59Yes, go ahead, Imogen.

1:17:03Oh, I was going to say sorry, it was me but oh, sorry, but go ahead Jordan.

1:17:09Thank you. Sorry about that chair.

1:17:12I just wanted to note that the term for all.

1:17:19I'm sorry I would ask that all members that are re interested to please reapply to the committee.

1:17:25We will be accepting applications in September and we will set you a link with the application form to you once it goes live.

1:17:35Sorry for you chair. Just on that note just a selfish plug election wise on the applications to work.

1:17:43Good municipal election are open if folks are interested. So if you are interested, wealth.ca, we're accepting applications that we could use the clerk's office to use all the help they can get for this year's election.

1:17:57I will also add one more one more thing.

1:18:04I wanted to note that.

1:18:07Imogen's contract is coming to an end in August. So this will be her last heritage advisory committee meeting and I'd like to kind of publicly express my incredible gratitude.

1:18:22For starting downtown HCD through to approval as well as numerous individual bylaws.

1:18:30If I could jump in there too. I really appreciate the background research that Imogen's been doing with some some modernist architecture in Guelph that will likely be appearing at a heritage advisory committee near you sometime soon.

1:18:47So thanks to Imogen for that.

1:18:49And I thought I could duck out quietly but thank you to the Heritage Advisory Committee. It's been such a fantastic group.

1:19:01I've really appreciated these meetings and the thoughtful input and all the work that you guys have put into projects even outside of this committee.

1:19:10Yeah, so it's been a great group to work with and yeah, I'm going to keep saying yeah, apparently sorry to sorry to sorry to see me go but thank you. Thank you very much.

1:19:28Even folks.

1:19:30Last, last agenda item is there someone who will move adjournment of our meeting today.

1:19:36Justin thank you.

1:19:38Okay, and then all those in favor.

1:19:41All right, we'll see you all in September enjoy the rest of July and August everyone.

1:19:47Bye everyone.