Accessibility Advisory Committee

0:02I'm working on a different laptop today, so that's interesting.

0:09Touch screen, I'm just getting used to that.

0:18I don't have a mouse set up yet.

0:22All right, perfect.

0:24I'm going to pull it up on my phone.

0:33I'm on the screen there too.

0:44Yeah, I use a screen reader, so I got to have it open.

0:55I had it open, I just must have accidentally closed it.

0:59There we go, there it is.

1:00I still have it open.

1:01I'm ridiculous.

1:02Okay, hi everyone.

1:03Welcome to the AAC meeting.

1:08It's the April 18th AAC meeting.

1:10I had to actually read that to know.

1:13So just a reminder to everyone that this meeting is being recorded.

1:19So just be aware of that.

1:22We're going to start with the territorial acknowledgement.

1:25As we gather, we're reminded that Guelph is situated on treaty land that is steeped

1:29in rich indigenous history and home to many...

1:32Oh, did I lose everyone?

1:35No, okay.

1:37And sorry, as we gather, we're reminded that Guelph is situated on treaty land that's

1:41steeped in rich indigenous history and home to many First Nations Inuit and Métis people

1:46today.

1:47As a city, we have a responsibility for the stewardship of the land on which we live and

1:51work.

1:52Today, we acknowledge the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation of the Anishinaabe

1:55peoples on whose traditional territory we are meeting.

1:59There's a link in the agenda to learn more about that land acknowledgement.

2:04So the first item is a disclosure of conflict of interest.

2:08Anybody have any conflict of interest they'd like to disclose for today?

2:12You don't see any or hear any.

2:21So moving on to approval of the agenda.

2:25So someone who read over the agenda, can we get an approval motion?

2:32Deborah?

2:33And we have Mike as well.

2:36And Mike.

2:37Okay, perfect.

2:38Thanks.

2:39Oh yeah, I can't really see who's in the room there.

2:41It's too small for me.

2:42So can you let me know if there are hands up in the room, Sarah?

2:45Yep, no problem.

2:47Awesome.

2:48And then approval of the minutes from someone who is at the February 21st meeting and has

2:53looked at the minutes.

2:55I just want to make one little correction here, Lorelai.

2:58And for the committee as well, after checking in with the clerks, you did not have to be

3:03at the previous meeting to approve the minutes.

3:06Oh, okay.

3:07Well, that's good to know.

3:08And Deborah has a point too, I think, maybe.

3:12Go ahead, Deborah.

3:14I was just going to ask that my name be consistently spelled correctly.

3:19It's misspelled once and spelled right once.

3:23So we'll look at that for sure.

3:26Thanks, Deborah.

3:27Thank you.

3:28And I'm happy to approve it with that change.

3:31Or to move to approve it.

3:33Perfect.

3:35Thanks for pointing that out, Deborah.

3:38So Lorelai.

3:39Yeah.

3:40Yes?

3:41We have a motion to approve the minutes with the amendment on the spelling of Deborah

3:50Stevesdread's name.

3:53Yeah, I think that's what Deborah just said, that she would move for that.

3:56Yeah.

3:57Okay.

3:58So we just need a second on that.

4:00Or do we need a seconder?

4:01Okay.

4:02Perfect.

4:03Okay, so Ted put his hand up there.

4:07Yes, it was me.

4:10Awesome.

4:11Thank you.

4:14All right.

4:15So now we're moving on to the first item of the agenda, which is AAC engagement on research

4:20for voting methods and accessible voting service enhancements.

4:24Oh, sorry.

4:26Am I missing?

4:27Sorry.

4:28One little step on that first, approving the minutes with the amendment is we just

4:32needed to get if any are opposed so that we can make sure that it's carried.

4:37Oh, right.

4:38And I forgot we were changing how we vote too.

4:41Okay.

4:42Yes.

4:43Okay.

4:44Is anyone opposed to it?

4:45We usually vote on things by who approves it, but it's a little more time efficient

4:50to find out if anyone's opposed.

4:52So is anyone opposed to approving the minutes?

4:54I don't see you here.

4:59Okay.

5:00Thanks for reminding me of that, Sarah.

5:01Yes, so it's fine.

5:02Did we do the agenda?

5:03Yes, we did the agenda.

5:04Great.

5:05Yeah.

5:06Sorry.

5:07Did we have to ask if anyone was opposed to the agenda?

5:13Do we usually vote on those two things?

5:16So every time we're doing a motion, we should get an emotional, a seconder, and then see

5:21if there are any opposed.

5:24So we didn't then do that for the agenda.

5:26So is anyone opposed to the approval of the agenda for today?

5:30Nope.

5:35So we're here now.

5:37Awesome.

5:38Oh, I'm getting feedback from somewhere.

5:41No, I'm not.

5:42Never mind.

5:43Okay.

5:44Sorry, everyone.

5:47All right.

5:48Perfect.

5:49So now we move on to the first item, which is AAC engagement on research for voting methods

5:54for the upcoming elections.

5:59So that's the first item on the agenda.

6:00And before we hand that off to staff, staff are going to speak on this.

6:03But, and unfortunately, this wasn't able to be added to the final copy of the agenda

6:07that we're looking at.

6:08But I promise this changes with a full endorsement of staff and everybody involved in planning

6:13the meeting.

6:14But we're actually going to take a quick few minutes at the beginning for me to kind of

6:17give a very brief timeline of what's gone on over the past 10 years with accessible voting

6:21in Guelph.

6:23Originally, this was planned as part of a meeting for later this year, maybe the next

6:28one or the one after that.

6:29But in the interest of equity and making sure that the conversation were that in this conversation

6:35we're really centering kind of the voices of the marginalized people who are being disenfranchised.

6:40The people like me who still don't have access to an independent vote right now.

6:44I really felt like it was important for us to not even start this discussion without

6:48bringing new members up to speed from the perspective of the AAC and not just kind of

6:52starting the conversation with only a city staff perspective.

6:56So a very brief timeline of where we've been over the past decade with voting in Guelph.

7:00In 2014, we joined the hundreds of municipalities in Ontario who use online voting in order

7:07to increase accessibility.

7:09That was a hit.

7:11Staff followed it up with a number of studies and engagement that I believe showed the majority

7:14of voters use this option and also preferred it.

7:17But I didn't have time to look that up before this meeting.

7:22Then in 2017, the AAC once again recommended online voting for the 2018 election.

7:30And the clerk's office supported that recommendation to the city.

7:34But unfortunately, the council struck this down over concerns of potential elections

7:40fraud and hacking.

7:41And unfortunately, the decision was made too late to implement any other accessible alternative

7:46voting methods.

7:47In the 2018 election, we didn't actually have any alternative voting methods at all.

7:51And then in early 2020, members of the AAC, including myself, began working with staff

7:56to try to work on voting accessibility for the 2022 election as far in advance as we

8:00could.

8:01And again, the AAC recommended online voting.

8:05An unfortunate change this time is that this time around the clerk's office unfortunately

8:08didn't back that recommendation to council.

8:11Once again, online voting was denied.

8:14But through independent research by members of the AAC, a new method called electronic

8:20ballot marking or remote accessible vote by mail was found where basically people will

8:25use their own computers at home to mark their ballot, but then they'll print off a real

8:30paper ballot that can't be hacked because it's a piece of paper and that will get mailed

8:34in as a mail-in ballot.

8:39We presented that option to council more than a year in advance of the election.

8:43And initially the clerk's office reported to council that that would be doable within

8:47the timeline provided.

8:48But unfortunately, later that month came back and said, actually, we don't have enough time,

8:53but we promise to look into it for the next election cycle.

8:58So that brings us to a couple of months ago, I think the end of last year.

9:02The municipal election subcommittee had another meeting with the clerk's office where we were

9:07informed by the clerks that in this next election, they plan on recommending even fewer accessible

9:13alternative voting methods than we did in the 2022 election.

9:17So I really wanted to highlight this unfortunate downward trend in voting accessibility over

9:21the past decade before we start this conversation.

9:24And I'm not blaming anyone.

9:25It's not like us versus staff.

9:27It's not the fault of the clerks or council or anyone group of people or person, in my

9:33opinion.

9:34It's just that we've been really unable to kind of find a solution and make all the

9:38moving pieces fit.

9:39So especially considering we have new members here today, I just wanted to add this context

9:45to the beginning of this discussion.

9:48And unfortunately, there isn't actually any time on the agenda today for further discussion

9:52about anything that I just told you.

9:55I have been assured that we will find time for that in a meeting very soon.

9:59I'm hoping the next day AC meeting will get that on the agenda.

10:02But the rest of the time for this item today is going to be for staff to do a presentation

10:07on their plan for engaging with us over the next year.

10:10And then they have some very specific questions.

10:12So let's make sure not to take up their question time with questions about anything I just

10:16said.

10:17We will get to this.

10:18I just really wanted this to be kind of foundational to the discussion.

10:21Thank you, Lover Lee.

10:24That's great.

10:25Thanks.

10:26So with that, I have to pass it over now to Jennifer Slater.

10:30I'm happy to pass it over to Jennifer Slater to give us kind of an overview on the clerks

10:36very, very thorough engagement that they plan on doing with us now on this, which is

10:41great.

10:42Wonderful.

10:43Thank you so much, Chair Root.

10:44I appreciate it for the context and kind of the additional starting point for 2022.

10:50I appreciate there is a lot of context from previous elections.

10:54You know, we're here to help answer questions, but in the interest of time, as Chair Root

10:59mentioned, our focus today really is to kind of branch from the 2022 lessons learned that

11:05we discussed with the committee December, January of this year actually, kind of following

11:10our accessibility report to council.

11:14So wrapping up 2022, we're now heading into 2026 and we're really excited to, you know,

11:20plan really what is going to be five engagement touch points.

11:22So we're happy to talk about, you know, really the memo that was provided as part of the

11:26agenda materials is kind of the context and outline of that plan.

11:30And this is the first of those touch points.

11:32So, you know, really appreciate your feedback and thought process as we kind of go through

11:39this new engagement process and approach so early in the voting or election planning process.

11:44And I think this is going to give us a lot of time for discussion, a lot of time for

11:48feedback and to work through, you know, a range of accessibility considerations and

11:53ways that we can enhance accessible voting and elections for folks.

11:58So really maybe just to highlight each of the touch points with the committee this year

12:02will build on what we've heard before.

12:04So it is going to be really important to use each individual engagement touch point on

12:10that topic to get as much feedback on that item as we can.

12:14And we're certainly happy to have, you know, additional touch points, one-on-one conversations

12:18if people are looking for more information broadly about elections, aside from those touch

12:22points, because we really want to maximize that feedback time within those windows so

12:27that we can continue to build on what we're hearing and kind of outline, you know, whether

12:33it's staffing capacity costs.

12:34These are all things that we can kind of start to research and scope.

12:39Today is really about voting methods and, you know, service enhancements and really this

12:45is kind of our kickoff for the research process.

12:47So Cher Root mentioned, you know, once we get so far down a planning path, it can be

12:53a little bit difficult to just add new things.

12:55So our intention really is to say, you know, we did learn about a new method in 2022 beforehand.

13:01And so why don't we have this as a really fulsome conversation.

13:05See from the beginning, you know, what are all the options?

13:07What are all the methods we should be researching before we even engage in that process?

13:13Because there might be things we haven't included yet and we're kind of asking the committee

13:16members to help us as part of that research process so that we can be doing everything

13:21up front and building on that with you.

13:25So with that, I will hand it over to Carrie.

13:27Carrie is going to give our presentation today and kind of what we're really asking for feedback

13:30on and where that five touch point plan will take us this year.

13:35And certainly happy to discuss anything more in the discussion time we have.

13:39Thanks, off to you, Carrie.

13:41Thanks Jen.

13:42And thanks, Cher Root and members for having us today.

13:46We're just going to ask that you hold off any questions until the end of this presentation

13:50and then we will happily answer them for you.

13:54So if you can move on to the next slide, please, Sarah.

13:57So our touch points, as Jen mentioned, we have five engagement opportunities for you

14:02guys this year.

14:05So today, which we're just kind of starting looking into the research process on voting

14:10methods and accessible voting service enhancement options that we should be including in our

14:16research.

14:17And then in August, we will meet with you guys and share what information we've come,

14:23what has come out of that research, what findings we had and kind of engage with you on what

14:30our decision making criteria will be.

14:33And that's things like cost and staffing requirements and that sort of thing.

14:38In September, we are planning a workshop with all of you to kind of engage and receive feedback

14:45on those voting methods and accessible voting service enhancement options.

14:50And then in October, we will present all of the findings and all of the feedback that

14:54we've received from you and following that workshop.

14:59And at this point, we're requesting the committee have a resolution with a recommendation for

15:04staff or to staff and council.

15:07And then in December, we will meet with you to present the final recommendation.

15:12If you can move to the next slide.

15:17So over the next few months, we will be engaging with, as said, you guys, the AAC, but we will

15:24also be meeting with other municipalities that are a similar size to us.

15:30Additional municipalities that are in leading in the area of municipal elections.

15:35So we're hoping to touch base with the City of Ottawa or the City of Toronto.

15:39They're both big leaders, particularly in accessibility options.

15:44We're looking to touch base with the Ontario Network of Accessibility Professionals, ONAP,

15:51Community Support Agencies, including the Canadian National Institution for the Blind,

15:56sorry, Institute for the Blind, CNIB, and the Canadian Council for the Blind and Community

16:01Living.

16:03There may also be election subject matter experts that we can touch base with.

16:07And once we start kind of finding voting methods or accessible service enhancement options,

16:12we will start researching into the vendors that offer those things as applicable.

16:19We, sorry, we, unless we identify a drastically new voting method, we won't be engaging with

16:28the general public as we did a lot of general public feedback in past community engagements.

16:35But if something drastically new arises, then we have the potential to reach out to the

16:41general community.

16:43So at this point, the methods that we have identified and are going to research, so the

16:50ones that are already on our list, is internet voting, voting from home, vote by mail, vote

16:56by phone, and remote accessible vote by mail, which Cher Root actually mentioned in her

17:04preamble there.

17:07So and then slide, the next slide, please, sorry.

17:10Thank you.

17:13As far as the voting service enhancements, these are options that support a voter with

17:19a disability to mark and cast their ballot as independently as possible at an in-person

17:23location.

17:25So the accessible voting enhancements that we already have identified and will be researching

17:30are your accessible voting equipment, which is your SIP and PUF devices, paddles, audio,

17:37et cetera.

17:40Most likely familiar, these are the standard equipment that we often have.

17:45We're also looking at Braille sleeves, a masked and sent-free location, ASL translation,

17:52magnifying sheets, and providing a central habit city hall for these accessible enhancements

17:58so that it's perhaps easier to navigate to or navigate which location to get to and kind

18:05of have a whole lot of things all in one place instead of trying to spread out amongst

18:10many locations.

18:11If you can move to the next slide, please.

18:16What we are asking of you today is, are there additional alternative voting methods that

18:23we should be including as part of the research?

18:26So not things that we've listed here already, but anything that you know of that would be

18:32great to research.

18:34And are there any additional accessible voting service enhancements that we should be included

18:39as part of this research?

18:41So again, not something that we've already listed, something that would be new for us.

18:47So if you can move to the next one, thanks, Sarah.

18:51So we sent out a survey with the other staff resources to obtain any alternative voting

18:55methods or accessible voting service enhancement options that you feel that we have missed

19:00and are worth investigating.

19:03Only one submission is allowed per member of the committee just based on the way that

19:07the survey set up.

19:09And we ask that you complete this before May 1st so that we can start our research.

19:16And with what we hear from you and the other groups who we engage with, the options we

19:19have outlined today, we will take all of these options and research the feasibility of us

19:25offering these options for the 2026 election.

19:29We are looking to kind of do this research through May and from May through till July

19:34of this year, and we will let you know in August how that goes.

19:40And if you can move to the last one, I think, yes.

19:44So we appreciate the feedback that we have already received from you about the 2022 election

19:50and previous elections.

19:51Today we are looking forward to the 2026 election, particularly any alternative voting methods

19:56or accessible voting service enhancement options that you feel we have missed.

20:01If you know some off the top of your head, please let us know now.

20:05Or if you have questions, please feel free.

20:08Or if you would like more time, that's why the survey has been sent to you.

20:11So you can think about it, maybe do a little research on your own, and let us know.

20:17But with respect of the limited time for today's meeting, we can now field any questions that

20:22you have.

20:23But please do keep these questions within the scope of today's objective.

20:30Thank you so much.

20:31All right.

20:32Yes.

20:33So now we have 10 minutes for some engagement on this.

20:35And Chris, go ahead.

20:36Sorry, I was just talking to the camera.

20:39Thank you very much.

20:40I was talking to the camera.

20:41I was talking about it in preparation for the long-term approach because the professional

20:42is more convenient than the interior.

20:43Okay.

20:44I am not a journalist too, but I think that's a good point.

20:45Sorry, Chris.

20:46There's something up with the audio coming.

20:47The output of the audio?

21:00You sound like a chipmunk.

21:12We understood that.

21:13But if you speak slowly.

21:14Yeah.

21:15Slowly.

21:16Sorry.

21:17So I am from the presentation that you are going to be approaching accessibility professionals

21:24in Ontario.

21:25Is that correct?

21:26Somebody in Ontario.

21:27Slower.

21:28That's a professional.

21:29A professional.

21:30Accessibility professionals.

21:31Accessibility professionals.

21:32Yes.

21:33And community in Ontario.

21:34To set out.

21:35Yeah.

21:36Yes.

21:37And you can put that in your feedback as well.

21:42I want to say that having been involved with both of them, I just want to remind you that

21:54you might not be speaking of people with lived experience when you approach both of them.

22:10Yeah.

22:11I just want to be absolutely certain that there are people with disabilities who are speaking

22:14affordably on their subject and not just people who represent people with disabilities.

22:19Okay.

22:20Yes.

22:21I'm not sure if everybody understood that.

22:23But Chris is wanting to make sure that people with disabilities are actually speaking to

22:30the suggestions for the research and not just people who represent people with disabilities.

22:37Awesome.

22:38Can I mute you now, Chris?

22:43Thanks.

22:44Awesome.

22:45Thank you.

22:48Okay.

22:49My comment was actually very similar to that as well.

22:53I wanted to just, so I'm just going to tack on and support what Chris was saying, that

22:58in the past, I've also been involved as Chris was saying, they've been involved in this

23:03in the past in these discussions.

23:05And there's been a lot of focus and weight put behind the recommendations of one in particular

23:13person who's not really a part of the Guelph community, who has no experience of lived

23:17experience of disability.

23:19And that ends up being often the loudest voice that's heard and the most questions are asked

23:23by council and things like that.

23:25So I wanted to know more about the selection process for the accessibility specialists.

23:30There are many out there who do have lived experience of disability and aren't kind of

23:37publicly known naysayers to accessible technology stuff.

23:41You know what I mean?

23:42It just, I've often wondered what the selection process is that this one person keeps getting

23:46invited back as a subject matter expert.

23:49So I'd be interested to know how that selection process works as well and making sure that

23:53it's a little more equitable than it's been in previous years.

23:56Jen, do you want to fill that one?

24:01Yeah.

24:02Yeah, I can get started and feel free if you want to add in, Carrie.

24:06Really the selection process is we're trying to have individuals with different, different

24:10contexts or different backgrounds or kind of experiences and specializations.

24:14And I think it's important.

24:15And Laura, I really appreciate, I should say chair root.

24:19Apologies.

24:20You know, when we try to have discussions, sometimes it can seem like we have the IT

24:25expert who has one perspective.

24:26We have a social scientist who has one perspective.

24:28We have someone with lived experience from an accessibility and disability perspective.

24:33And those don't always align.

24:36And I think really our goal is simply to say we want to have as many perspectives at the

24:41table as possible.

24:42But I think your point about, you know, particularly for individuals being aware, you know, maybe

24:49it's something we can even include as part of questioning just, you know, do you have

24:54lived experience?

24:55And it's something that we never want to make an assumption on.

24:57It's not necessarily what we specifically engage with different people who have different

25:02specializations regarding.

25:04But that would be maybe good context for us to even have in terms of scoping.

25:09What is the ratio of individuals that we've engaged with who do have lived experience?

25:14Or appreciating that's a wide range there.

25:18So, you know, maybe particularly individuals, something I can take away with Sarah and

25:22Leanne, we can look at specifically for the accessibility groups that we are going to

25:26be engaging with, are these just individuals who represent or help provide services to

25:32individuals with accessibility considerations?

25:35Or is this a group that also has, you know, what weight is it that they may have some

25:39lived experience or not?

25:41And maybe the first step isn't that we have everybody have that equal playing field, but

25:45I think maybe an understanding of that would be very helpful.

25:48And if there's any kind of thoughts on that, certainly welcome.

25:51Yeah, I think the person that I'm referring to is someone who has the exact same credentials

25:58as some other people who are involved in the same focus groups and the same panels and

26:03are also full stack engineers and have that background as well.

26:07But he's just also a person who's not have any lived experience of disability and doesn't

26:12live in Guelph and never has lived in Guelph.

26:14And it just seems like a real reach outside of the subject to like pull in people that

26:19are that far when there are people out there with the exact same credentials.

26:23So if your idea is to have like some voting accessibility specialists and some, let's

26:28try and get as many of them with disability experience as possible.

26:34But Deborah, go ahead.

26:37Thanks.

26:38And at first, can I just say thank you City Clerk's office for coming and being so careful

26:45and thoughtful in your engagement with us and and being with us every step of the way.

26:49So thank you for that.

26:51I really, really appreciate that.

26:55So I wanted to ask a question and give a suggestion.

27:00So let me give the suggestion first, which is I think an intersectional look at who among

27:08the community accessibility leaders you're thinking about or the organizations you're

27:15thinking about needs to be broadened.

27:19And let me give you a couple of examples.

27:21For example, you talked about CNIB, you talked about inclusion or community living Ontario.

27:28Those are populations for folks with visual impairments who are blind or people with intellectual

27:33disabilities.

27:34But inclusion is actually not for people with disabilities.

27:37It's for families and people with disabilities.

27:39So you're not going to people first Ontario, which is an organization of people who've been

27:47labeled intellectually disabled.

27:49So it's an important distinction.

27:51Inclusion gets a lot more lead time, but they really are a family organization.

27:56They're not an organization of people with disabilities.

27:59I didn't hear you talk about organizations of people who are deaf.

28:05And that's another access, people with neurodiversity, people who live with chronic fatigue or, you

28:14know, chemical sensitivity.

28:16So there are lots of different.

28:18But those are just on the disability spectrum.

28:20And then like the diverse, I would also encourage you to think about people and organizations

28:27that have already begun to explore how voting and elections get shaped by intersecting oppressions.

28:37So for example, disability justice network of Ontario, DJNO is based in Hamilton.

28:46And our former executive director, Sarah Jamma, was just elected as the first black woman with

28:53disabilities to the Ontario legislation.

28:56Like that's a huge source of knowledge, not just Sarah, but the organization that she

29:02comes from because they work on meeting people with those intersecting oppressions at play.

29:13So I'd say they'd be a really, and I'd say the same around Indigenous disability Canada,

29:21where it's, I know they're based in BC, but they really think about the experiences of

29:28Indigenous people with disabilities.

29:29So trying to get us to think about using an intersectional analysis in your research,

29:36I think would be really helpful.

29:38So then my question is about how you're thinking about Internet voting.

29:47This has been such a hot button issue in Guelph.

29:51And I mean, it's just out there as a voting method, but are you thinking of Internet voting

29:55generally or Internet voting only as it is related to accessible voting or is it Internet

30:02voting in a different way?

30:04Like how are you thinking about Internet voting?

30:07So I'd welcome your comments on either of those.

30:10Thanks.

30:13Yeah, happy to answer the question.

30:15First of all, maybe it's a big thank you.

30:17We're trying to do better and kind of engage.

30:22And there's so many groups and there's so many different perspectives, but ensuring

30:27that we're kind of thinking of that range is very helpful.

30:29So I will kind of go away and take a look at some of those organizations and groups, much

30:33appreciated for mentioning those.

30:34And feel free to reach out by email, include some in that survey, whatever works.

30:40It's always best for you.

30:41Always have to take feedback there too.

30:44On the Internet voting piece, I think really our intention coming into this process is to

30:49have no thoughts.

30:52Maybe is the best way to say it.

30:53We're being very neutral.

30:55We're just saying, before we go into research, let's put everything on the table, which is

31:00why we're kind of going through this process with the committee members.

31:05Our intention isn't necessarily to say one method or another method, but I think our

31:12message to counsel and helpful for this committee to understand is that sometimes the thought

31:20process is we just offer as much as possible.

31:25And certainly if a lot of recommendations and a lot of different options are identified

31:29by the committee, that's something that's helpful for us to know upfront and take away

31:32from a capacity and a timing and a resources perspective.

31:37And the intention really is to present all of those to counsel.

31:42But either way, I think we're kind of trying to say, think of each individual method or

31:46each individual voting service enhancement as a bit of their own silo in the sense that

31:53I mean, staff can recommend any combination of things to counsel, but they can take or

32:00leave that.

32:01So what we're really trying to do is say, don't think of things in combination of packages.

32:07Think of them as individual silos.

32:09And if there's things that you would think would go really well together once we get

32:12to kind of the conversation and prioritization workshop, that's really helpful for us to

32:18know and take away.

32:19But really we're trying to maximize how many methods can we get that really maximize the

32:26most access for people?

32:27Because there's always going to be some things that work for a large group of people.

32:32Some might have very particular individual request or needs like the home vote program.

32:36It's a very unique subset and perspective of individuals who might not have access to

32:41other things, for example.

32:42We're never going to say that's going to be the best approach for many people.

32:47So kind of siloing thoughts on individual options is very helpful for us because then

32:52it gives us really full some feedback on each of them.

32:55And it tells us if we're getting into discussion with council from a decision making perspective,

33:01that they're thinking combinations will work, that we've already clearly worked with you

33:05when identified, hey, that's not really the best accessible combination of things.

33:09We can probably more fulsome convey that.

33:12But right now we're pretty neutral and open to any thoughts and feedback throughout this

33:16process.

33:17Thanks.

33:22Does anyone have any other questions before we move on?

33:27All right.

33:28I don't see any.

33:29I wanted to just briefly add that I have a couple of possible kind of enhancements, accessible

33:38voting service enhancements.

33:39You kind of classified them as.

33:41But unfortunately they aren't.

33:43I'm hesitant to bring them forward because they're not.

33:47Sorry, I'm having trouble wording this.

33:49So for myself, for example, I can't currently independently vote.

33:53I really just want to be able to vote on my own and not have someone else mark my ballot

33:56for me.

33:57And I just have to trust them that they marked it correctly.

34:00However, if we end up in a situation again for the next election where that's what I

34:03have to do, there are enhancements that I think could make that process a little more secure,

34:09still not independent, still not accessible.

34:11So I'm hesitant to bring them forward and have them considered good alternatives to an

34:16accessible independent voting method.

34:19You know what I mean?

34:20I also don't want to be left again in another election where I can't vote.

34:25So and although even with these considerations, I don't believe I would really be able to ever

34:32be confident that my vote was marked the way I wanted it to because I can't double check

34:36it, right?

34:37Like, but there are a few things that could be improved about the current.

34:40So I'm not sure how to add those into this process.

34:42If we should wait until later, if I can add those into the survey with some caveats, just

34:48wanted your input on when I should bring those forward knowing that they're not accessible

34:52enough.

34:54Yeah, I really appreciate kind of that thought and question, chair, root.

34:59Really I would say include them up front.

35:00You know, if you want to include notes or thoughts with them, that's really helpful for

35:03us to see.

35:04But I think in the interest of kind of my previous comment, let's put everything on the

35:09table for this research stage because, you know, as we work through that workshop is really

35:14going to be we're going to be presenting findings to you once we get to the August committee

35:20meeting.

35:21And then that September workshop is going to have lots of time.

35:24Like it's that's going to be the point of prioritization.

35:26This works for this context, not this context and appreciating, you know, every individual

35:33is different.

35:34So the more options we can put on the table, I should just mention for context, so the

35:38voting methods is legislated to go for council for decision making accessible voting.

35:44Service enhancements are a little bit more flexible.

35:47Council has asked us to report back to them on it, but it's not necessarily a legislative

35:53council decision.

35:54So clerks has a lot more flexibility in terms of looking at different options and you just

35:59offering, I think, a wider palette of things, depending on what would be entailed and kind

36:03of operationalizing and making it available.

36:05But that's much more flexible for us to do that.

36:07So appreciate, you know, any and all, please include everything.

36:11And if you have notes there, we can always take that away as well.

36:14Thank you.

36:15Thank you so much.

36:17Awesome.

36:17Thanks, everyone, for such thorough engagement on that.

36:20That's great.

36:21And thank you to staff again for this great outline of really thorough.

36:25This is the most thorough engagement we've had on this so far.

36:27And I'm excited about that.

36:28Thank you.

36:31So the next item is layground rubber surface strategy strategy in the parks and recreation

36:37master plan.

36:39It's a four engagement item.

36:41And we have Mallory Lemon, Park Planner and Luke Jefferson here to present some

36:49information for us on this.

36:51So yeah, there we go.

36:53You're here.

36:53So I'll just pass it over.

36:54Can you hear me?

36:55I just want to make sure I'm I don't need to.

36:57OK, perfect.

36:58Yes.

36:59Yeah.

36:59So thank you for the introduction.

37:00I'll just mention some I'm Mallory Lemon.

37:02I'm a park planner with the city.

37:04I think we have Luke Jefferson on the agenda for today as well.

37:07He's actually moved on to a different position with the city.

37:09So he's not here today just for your awareness, but happy to take all your feedback.

37:16Back to our department.

37:17So I am the project manager for the Parks and Rec master plan.

37:21It's a project that's been going on for a couple of years now.

37:25And today we're doing our final engagement with the AAC on a very specific portion of

37:32the Parks and Rec master plan because we know it's an issue that's important to the AAC.

37:36So that is the playground rubber surface strategy.

37:39And how we're addressing that through the Parks and Rec master plan.

37:44So today I'll be talking about the purpose of the Parks and Rec master plan, what we've

37:48heard from the AAC to date.

37:50Some of the challenges that we face with implementing playgrounds with.

37:56Current our current approach to playgrounds with rubber surfaces, what other municipalities

38:00are doing for playground surfaces, our current rubber surface distribution city wide and

38:06the draft master plan recommendation that we have drafted currently.

38:10And then we'll take questions from the AAC and then let you know about our next steps for the project.

38:17OK, so the Parks and Rec master plan.

38:20So what is the purpose of the Parks and Rec master plan?

38:22So basically it's a document that sets direction for parkland, recreation, facilities and

38:27programs in wealth over the next 10 years and beyond.

38:30And it identifies needs and guides, investment and priorities.

38:33So this will range from anything from sports fields to rec facilities in this plan.

38:39It's very high level document.

38:41And so why address playground rubber surface strategy in the master plan?

38:45Well, the reason for that is to provide transparency of service level between the city and the

38:51community so people know what to expect.

38:53It sets a standardized approach and it ensures long term equitable distribution of facilities

38:58across the city.

39:02So we just wanted to kind of summarize what we've heard from the AAC in the last couple of years.

39:08So these are the themes that we've heard from the AAC.

39:12So the city's typical playground surface level, sorry, service level is not accessible enough.

39:18Individuals who use mobility devices and other wheeled devices have reported that engineered

39:22wood fiber that we use on some playgrounds is difficult to navigate.

39:26Parkland staff need to consult with the AAC earlier in playground projects.

39:31We received a publication from the AAC called Creating Inclusive Playgrounds, a playbook

39:35of considerations and strategies.

39:37And the AAC noted that this is an excellent framework for inclusive playground design.

39:43And then we've been given lots of suggestions from the AAC of really good accessible

39:48playgrounds and those include Cates Place in Elmira, Southridge Park in Elora, State Park

39:53in Fergus and Sashes Park in Laurigenal.

39:58Next slide please.

40:01So we love rubber playgrounds.

40:05I love them. I think they're great.

40:06There are some challenges though.

40:08So this slide is basically just to

40:09kind of identify the challenges that we face

40:11when we're implementing rubber surfaces.

40:15So when we do playground replacements,

40:18for our playground replacement program,

40:21we try to stay within the existing playground footprint

40:24and use existing curves.

40:26However, when we're installing rubber,

40:28the curves often need to be replaced.

40:30So it sort of expands beyond the replacement project.

40:34Rubber tends to deteriorate much faster than

40:36engineered wood fiber and requires replacement more often.

40:39This is usually about twice as often as engineered wood fiber.

40:43Rubber is more expensive.

40:45The height of play equipment can be

40:47restricted when you're using rubber surface.

40:50Rubber surface absorbs and it holds heat.

40:53The project is sculpted because

40:57rubber surface playgrounds tend to be

40:59sort of a destination style feature.

41:02It draws people to the site longer and that can

41:04often lead to increased scope.

41:07So this could include additional parking,

41:09additional pedestrian connections,

41:10more furnishings and shade structures.

41:13So our current approach to playground surface.

41:19So City of Guelph playgrounds as a base service level

41:23typically include engineered wood fiber under the play equipment.

41:26Some playgrounds have rubber surface under the play equipment.

41:30In the past, we've implemented playgrounds with

41:33rubber surfaces based on

41:34park type hierarchy and on a case-by-case basis.

41:37So basically that means we have

41:39different levels of parks in the city.

41:42So neighborhood parks are sort of local walkable parks.

41:44They're smaller.

41:46Then we have community parks and regional parks which are larger.

41:49They usually have sports fields, more amenities.

41:52They're not necessarily walkable.

41:55So what we've done in the past is we've

41:59implemented rubber in our regional parks.

42:02Then on a case-by-case basis as we've been asked by

42:06the AAC or through community engagement.

42:09So currently the locations with rubber surface include Royal City Park,

42:13Riverside Park, Eastview Community Park,

42:16South End Community Park,

42:17Spurline Park and then we have three parks in 2023 that will get rubber surface.

42:22So Park Park, Howdy Crescent Park and University Village Park.

42:26I'll just say the AAC can give themselves a pat on the back for helping us get to

42:30this point where we are now with your advocacy on rubber surface playground.

42:36So thank you for that.

42:38So just to highlight what other municipalities are doing for playground surfaces.

42:42So through the Parks and Work Master Plan,

42:45we're basically benchmarking ourselves against

42:47other compared municipalities for all of our playground amenities.

42:52So sports fields and dog parks and playgrounds.

42:57So what we found that there's no established industry standard for

43:02the quantity or location of rubber surface playgrounds.

43:05Every single municipal comparator offers

43:08engineered wood fiber as a typical playground surface and then rubber surfaces in key locations.

43:14Key locations is undefined at this point.

43:18Some municipalities do it again by park type hierarchy,

43:24some just saying key locations or important parks.

43:27So that's just one thing to note is that there's not

43:31a typical standard among Ontario municipalities.

43:35So what we're proposing through the Parks and Work Master Plan is

43:38a geographic distribution of playgrounds with rubber surfaces within

43:422.5 kilometers of residential areas.

43:44So this would be a five minute drive or a 30 minute walk.

43:47So the geographic distribution model will ensure that

43:50playgrounds with rubber surfaces are located within

43:52reasonable distance to residential areas,

43:54and playgrounds with rubber surfaces will be more evenly distributed throughout the city.

43:59So we mapped all of our playgrounds and identified

44:06the parks with rubber surfaces.

44:08In this map, it's a little difficult to see,

44:09it's small, I apologize for that.

44:11All the playgrounds are the yellow dots that you see on that map there,

44:15and anything with a red dot is a playground with a rubber surface.

44:18So then we took that and we drew a 2.5 kilometer service radius around

44:23those rubber playgrounds and we identified a couple of gaps,

44:28areas that are not being served by rubber playgrounds right now.

44:31So there are two gaps, one in the central area of the city and one in the northwest.

44:36So to fill these gaps,

44:39we're proposing one rubber playground at

44:41University Village Park in the central area.

44:44So you, the AAC has been presented with

44:47this proposal previously by my co-worker, Stefan.

44:50We weren't sure who was going to get to AAC first,

44:54but Stefan made it before me.

44:55So you should be aware of that.

44:56University Village Park is getting

44:58rubber and it will fill that distribution gap in

45:01the central area of the city and then we're also

45:03proposing one more in the northwest area of the city.

45:06We haven't determined an exact location yet,

45:09that just needs a little bit more study and more internal discussion,

45:12but we do plan to implement one in

45:14the northwest city to fill that gap.

45:18So our recommendation in the Draft Master Plan is,

45:23in the next 10 years, construct

45:25two new rubber service playgrounds to fill distribution gaps.

45:28One at University Village Park and one in

45:30the northwest end of the city,

45:31the location to be determined.

45:34Just for your awareness actions that are already captured by

45:37legislation in the park plan,

45:38all parks will have accessible paths and will continue to consult with

45:42the AAC on park design and construction projects as per legislation.

45:46Also for your awareness,

45:49we will make a recommendation to update

45:54the master plan five years after adoption and then

45:56a full overhaul of the master plan after 10 years,

45:59which is pretty typical for master plans in the city.

46:02Next slide, please.

46:04So that was a lot of information.

46:07I apologize for a lot of text and a lot of talking,

46:10but we're happy to take any questions you might have

46:13within the scope of rubber surface playgrounds.

46:19Thank you so much.

46:20Yeah, we have 15 minutes for AAC discussion and questions now.

46:25So Brian, I see you've got your hand up. Go ahead.

46:32So thank you for that presentation.

46:35I'm just curious why you are

46:39to identify gaps.

46:42You used a measurement,

46:47say, what was it, 2.5 kilometers?

46:51Why use a distance measurement instead of,

47:00say, demographics to identify where to put the park,

47:06or put the rubber.

47:10So distribution is a typical metric when looking at

47:16citing park features.

47:18So typically, we're looking at a five to 10 minute walk,

47:23which is 500 to 800 meters,

47:25or a destination style feature,

47:26which is about 2.5 kilometers.

47:30I was most curious,

47:33is there a cost difference between

47:35the engineered wood fiber and the rubber surfaces?

47:41I was just wondering how much is that cost difference?

47:46So it's about three times the cost for rubber,

47:49and it needs to be replaced twice as often.

47:52So it ends up being quite a bit more expensive.

47:54However, I don't want that to be perceived as

47:58the only reason that the only challenge with rubber.

48:02So you said it costs twice as much or three times?

48:06Costs three times as much.

48:07It needs to be replaced twice as often.

48:09Okay.

48:11And how often is that typically?

48:15Would it be a couple of years?

48:18I think the last one we did,

48:20the So-Thang Community Power Class,

48:22did about eight to 10 years.

48:24I'm going to say somewhere in that range.

48:27Okay, so it's quite a bit long.

48:30And just sorry, if I may add to that,

48:33our playground replacements,

48:34so when we do all the features,

48:36those are on about an 18 to 20 year schedule.

48:39So basically, it means that we're replacing

48:41the surface twice in twice the amount of time

48:47for each playground.

48:48Okay, thank you.

48:49This is curious. Thank you.

48:51What?

48:53We have a question in the room, Loreline.

48:55Just to carry on to this,

48:56so you said you have to replace things twice as often.

48:59How long does that process take?

49:01To replace. Yeah.

49:03That's a good question, I guess.

49:07Design may take maybe a few months.

49:12So I'd say within a year, we can get it replaced.

49:14Once it's reached the end of its service life

49:15and it's causing a hazard,

49:16or it's getting to the point where it's causing a hazard,

49:19it'll take about a year for replacement.

49:21When would you start that at the beginning of the year,

49:25or as the fall kind of goes in, basically,

49:28when there's less people using the facility?

49:32That's an interesting one.

49:33So construction season, unfortunately, is summer.

49:37So usually, that's when people want to use the facilities.

49:39Unfortunately, we have to try and time that as best we can.

49:42It doesn't always work out perfectly.

49:44So basically, we rely on our operations,

49:46our parks operations team, to identify when

49:49any of our park features are reaching the end

49:51of their service life.

49:52And then we start to forecast that.

49:54Like, this looks like it's only going to be

49:55another couple of years of service.

49:57It's starting to deteriorate.

49:58So then we start to forecast that in our budget.

50:01So we do our best to try not to impact use,

50:03but occasionally we have to.

50:05OK.

50:12Any other questions?

50:13I don't see any hands.

50:15Is there anyone in the room with questions?

50:21All right.

50:22Awesome.

50:22Well, thank you so much.

50:23And I would just like to comment

50:25that this has been such really great and thorough engagement

50:28on the surfaces and such a quick turnaround from the time

50:32the AAC kind of started talking about this with the city

50:35and seeing a lot of measurable changes being implemented.

50:39So that's really nice to see.

50:41So thank you to you and also Stefan and everybody else

50:44involved at the park planning part of the city.

50:47This has been really encouraging.

50:49Thanks.

50:50Thanks, Lorelai.

50:51Sorry, I just wanted to mention one thing there before we

50:53let Mallory, though, is there is a recommended motion.

50:57Mallory's kind of drafted for us.

50:59And I'm not too sure if the AAC is in support of it

51:03and would like to go ahead with the recommended motion.

51:05If we are, we'll need a motion or a seconder,

51:08and then we'll have to see if any are opposed.

51:11But it is up on the screen right now.

51:13It's just at the bottom of the slides.

51:15It's available right now.

51:17I'll go to read it.

51:19I can read it out loud if you'd like.

51:20And then if someone wants to.

51:22Can I just ask if is that a permanent forever?

51:27We're recommending that this is just only these two

51:30new gaps be filled in?

51:32Or is it like this is a starting point

51:34and we're moving?

51:36We're writing a motion that this is a starting point

51:39and that it's not we recommend this is good enough

51:41for the city forever kind of thing.

51:43So there's two parts to the motion.

51:45So the first part of the motion that I've recommended

51:47is that we adogged a 2.5 kilometer radius for rubber

51:52surface pli-grain.

51:52So that means when the Guelph Innovation District comes

51:55online and Claremont becomes online,

51:57we'll be applying that to growth.

52:01And then the second part of that is implement now basically

52:06or during the life of this plan, two more rubber

52:08surface playgrounds.

52:09So the idea is to adopt this metric and then that'll apply

52:15to the growth as well.

52:17Thank you.

52:18I've been in five years.

52:20Yes, sorry.

52:21So yes, five years will be basically a minor update

52:23to the plan.

52:24It'll basically be a report back and calibrating

52:27like how are we doing to develop the recommendations

52:29of the plan.

52:30And then in 10 years, everything sort of we take a new look

52:33on everything, do all the engagement again.

52:35So yeah, the five year mark will have an opportunity

52:38to revisit it and then again have a 10 year mark.

52:41Thank you so much for that context.

52:43I can't put forward motions because I'm the chair.

52:46But if anyone would like to amend those or discuss them

52:49or put them forward, go ahead and raise your hand.

52:55Can Sarah read the motion and then someone

52:58say whether they're.

52:58Yeah, that sounds good.

53:00Yeah.

53:01So the motion as it is written right now

53:03is that the AC supports the adoption of a geographic

53:06distribution of playgrounds with rubber surface

53:10within 2.5 kilometers of residential areas.

53:14And the second part of that is further the AC supports

53:18the implementation of two new rubber surface playgrounds

53:22to fill distribution gaps in the central and northwest areas

53:26of the city.

53:27So we're looking for a motion.

53:30So Mike's a motioner and then a seconder.

53:34Chris.

53:36OK, and then go forward Lorelai.

53:39OK, perfect.

53:40I didn't know if any of those hands were people wanting

53:42to amend stuff before it got motioned,

53:44but it looks like the hands disappeared.

53:46So I think they were all just seconding, which is great.

53:50OK, so are there any opposed?

53:53Yes, are there any opposed to this?

54:00OK, I don't see any on my end.

54:03All good here?

54:04OK, perfect.

54:05Well, thank you so much.

54:07That's great.

54:09And just just before I wrap up, I just

54:11wanted to say that we'll be putting out the draft master

54:14plan in Q3 of this year and it'll go to cancel in Q4.

54:18So if you want to read through the master plan,

54:19this big document, feel free.

54:22We'd love to have your comments that that will be for engagement,

54:24probably summer.

54:28Thank you, Mallory.

54:29Thank you very much.

54:33All right, so the next thing on the agenda

54:36is Guelph seasonal patio program.

54:38The staff is going to present on this for 10 minutes,

54:40and then we'll have 10 minutes to discuss.

54:43It's a for engagement item, so we have Nicole.

54:47If you could let me know how to pronounce your last name.

54:50My screen reader just did not probably pronounce it properly.

54:55But we have Nicole here.

54:58Hi, everyone.

54:59My name is Nicole Kupferschmitt.

55:01It's a long one.

55:03Nicole works perfect, and I'm the tourism programs officer

55:07with the city, and I'm with Alex Jaworski here today

55:10as well, and she is the manager of tourism and destination

55:13development for the city.

55:15Today, as Laura mentioned, we will

55:17be speaking to the seasonal patio program.

55:20So if we could jump to the next slide.

55:21Thanks, Sarah.

55:24Some high level overview of what we're

55:26going to be chatting about today.

55:27So the 2022 seasonal patio summary,

55:31what that looked like last year, an overview of what

55:33to expect for this year, as well as some information

55:37on the digital report of problem platform,

55:39some key dates, our community engagement survey

55:42that we ran, our accessibility inspection checklist.

55:46We then have a couple of questions for the AAC,

55:49and then some information on how to contact Alex and myself

55:53for any patio related questions or concerns.

55:56So last year, we had 50 businesses

56:00participate citywide in the seasonal patio program.

56:03It's important to note that the seasonal patio program,

56:06while we see most of it downtown,

56:08it is a citywide led program.

56:11So there are a few private property patio operators as well.

56:15So 50 businesses citywide participated in the program.

56:20Council motioned an April 1 to October 31 start and end date

56:24for the three year duration of the program.

56:27And then for downtown specifically

56:29to support the parking concerns, staff initiated a stop

56:33circling and park campaign, which, if anyone saw

56:37those educational pedestrian signs downtown

56:40or the driver signage kind of educating folks

56:43where to park downtown, directing to our parkade.

56:46And then accessibility services was included

56:48in the workflow for that campaign.

56:50And part of that campaign also opened the MacDennell lot

56:54to be two hour complimentary parking as well,

56:56similar to on street parking, in addition

56:59to accessible parking spaces as well,

57:01providing about 60 plus parking spaces back to our downtown.

57:05And then diving into the 2023 overview for this year,

57:10road closures are not being recommended by staff

57:14for the 2023 seasonal patio program.

57:17However, it's also important to note

57:19that road closures could happen,

57:21but they would have to follow the same process

57:23as any special event.

57:25So if a special event application were to come in,

57:27the appropriate staff would be circulated on that application

57:31and reviewing that, but staff are not recommending

57:34any road closures as part of the program specifically.

57:37Patea program dates remain unchanged from the past two years

57:40with an April one start date weather permitting

57:42and an October 31st end date weather permitting.

57:46There is a parking stall fee this year

57:48for any patio operators occupying those public parking spaces

57:52of a $3 per square meter annual parking fee

57:55for the final year of the program.

58:00Last year staff worked really hard

58:02to get the seasonal patio program

58:04on the digital report a problem platform.

58:07And this year will be the first year

58:08that it is officially live and active.

58:11So we're really excited about that.

58:13So anyone is welcome to report a problem digitally

58:16through that platform.

58:17And in addition, there is an accessibility checkbox.

58:21If you see any concerns on a patio,

58:23it will direct you to,

58:24is this an accessibility related concern?

58:27If that is selected, accessibility services and myself

58:30will both be flagged on the concern.

58:32And then staff will decide how to go about solving

58:36that non-compliance.

58:39And as always, if you don't wanna go through the digital

58:41report a problem platform, you can always contact staff.

58:44Our email is there, our phone number is there

58:47and our TTY is there.

58:51And now speaking to some key dates.

58:53So we ran a community engagement survey last year

58:56from December 12th to January 13th

58:59to get a better understanding of what folks think

59:01about the program as a whole.

59:04We also led an internal staff survey for the first time

59:07to better understand staff recommendations

59:09from each expert in their fields

59:12and see how the program could be improved

59:14and also better understand what impacts the program

59:16has on their workflow.

59:18March 1st of this year, applications opened for businesses

59:21to renew or apply.

59:24Those applications are now closed.

59:26However, there is the exception of any new business

59:28coming to our city.

59:30We'll always accept an application from them at any time

59:32throughout the duration of the program.

59:35patio season has started.

59:36If anyone has been downtown, you'd see that there's

59:39water barriers being placed and operators are working

59:42hard to get those decking installed if needed

59:48and having that all functional.

59:49And then this weekend, we're having our water barriers

59:53filled to have more of a safe space for folks dining.

59:58Staff are planning on going to council this summer

1:00:02to propose a future program and delegation opportunity

1:00:06is always there.

1:00:07You can register for that through the clerk's office,

1:00:10but that is planned for July of this year as of now.

1:00:13And then November one, we'll wrap up the last day

1:00:16of the last year of the approved three-year pilot program.

1:00:22Now we're gonna speak to our community engagement survey.

1:00:24So as I mentioned, it ran from December 12th

1:00:26to January 13th.

1:00:28We had about 900 responses, which is pretty amazing.

1:00:3288% of those responses were from folks

1:00:35actually visiting those patios.

1:00:377% of the responses were from people

1:00:39who did not visit a patio.

1:00:412% of the responses were from patio operators

1:00:45downtown specifically.

1:00:46And then the last 2% were businesses without a patio.

1:00:51One of the questions we asked in the survey was,

1:00:53would you like to see the patio program

1:00:55continue past 2023?

1:00:5771% of folks said yes.

1:01:0019% said yes, but with modifications.

1:01:03And 10% said no.

1:01:07So what did people like

1:01:08and what did people not like about the program?

1:01:10Some of the likes were the increased vibrancy

1:01:12that had offered to our downtown core,

1:01:14the European feel through activation downtown.

1:01:18Guests felt it was a safer option,

1:01:21especially when COVID was at its peak

1:01:23as an outdoor dining option.

1:01:25A lot of people enjoyed the length of the program

1:01:28and some people commented

1:01:30that they were more likely to stay downtown.

1:01:32Some of the dislikes were the lack of parking,

1:01:36litter within patio spaces,

1:01:38some patios being too large,

1:01:39some patios being too small.

1:01:45Staff recommendations for the future program.

1:01:47So as I mentioned earlier,

1:01:48staff are planning to go to council in July

1:01:51to propose a future program for 2024 and beyond.

1:01:56Inspections upon installation is something

1:01:58that the last app would be recommending.

1:01:59Accessibility would be included

1:02:01in the first round of inspections

1:02:03as they will be for this year of the final year as well.

1:02:06Limitations on patio size,

1:02:08maybe a recommendation that we give to council as well.

1:02:11The continued use of the report a problem digital platform

1:02:15and then additional parking options.

1:02:17So maybe some additional short-term parking spaces

1:02:20for a wide variety of reasons,

1:02:23as well as potentially the changed use

1:02:27of the MacDonell lot to continue

1:02:29as that two hour complimentary parking

1:02:31to help mitigate some of the parking concerns downtown

1:02:34with patios specifically.

1:02:38Here we have our accessibility inspection checklist

1:02:41that we provide to staff that are actually boots

1:02:44on the ground doing the site visits

1:02:45and looking at patios to make sure

1:02:47that they are where we need them to be.

1:02:50So from an accessibility side of things,

1:02:52these are high level,

1:02:53the main things we are looking for

1:02:56and just to break it down accessible routes,

1:02:59accessible parking, accessible seating,

1:03:02fencing and ramps.

1:03:04The FADM was used to determine the requirements

1:03:06of each section,

1:03:08but that is something that we do provide

1:03:10to staff upon inspection.

1:03:15And then we have a couple of questions for the AAC.

1:03:19Did we miss something

1:03:20on the accessibility inspection checklist?

1:03:22And also that doesn't need to be answered right now.

1:03:25If there's time and you have a chance to look

1:03:29at that checklist and you think there's something else,

1:03:31you can always reach out to us on that.

1:03:34And then second,

1:03:35does it make sense to engage the AAC

1:03:37when accessible parking is impacted on a patio application?

1:03:40So more so, especially around next year,

1:03:42if council were to approve this program,

1:03:44if there is an accessible parking space

1:03:47where a patio is being,

1:03:48a patio operator is applying to have a patio,

1:03:51how could we best communicate that to folks

1:03:54on would that be during an AAC meeting, AAC meeting,

1:03:58or would that be through email anytime

1:04:01that an application comes in?

1:04:02It's important to note right now,

1:04:04we do have a five day turnaround period.

1:04:07So next year we'll probably follow a 10 day turnaround

1:04:10period similar to our 10 year encroachment agreements.

1:04:13And we could notify during each application

1:04:17or we could present all of the ones that were impacted

1:04:20in an AAC meeting.

1:04:23And other than that,

1:04:24we just have some contact information for you folks,

1:04:27if you have any questions on how to get in touch with us,

1:04:29but we can go back to the questions.

1:04:31Thanks, Sarah.

1:04:35Thanks so much.

1:04:36All right, so I saw Chris has a hand up first.

1:04:40So go ahead, Chris.

1:04:42Thank you.

1:04:48Issued to say a business that had signed on,

1:04:52but you had failed to follow the rules correctly,

1:04:55or is there a warden given first,

1:04:57and just trying to figure out

1:04:58whether there's an equal part stick

1:05:00that goes along with the carrot?

1:05:02I'm so sorry, Chris.

1:05:03I missed the beginning part, it just broke up a bit.

1:05:07Yeah, sorry.

1:05:09I just wanted to find out if there was a monetary fine

1:05:12that could be given to a business

1:05:14that doesn't say follow the FADM correctly.

1:05:20If there is, what does that look like?

1:05:23I'm not expecting a fine to be given right off the bat,

1:05:25but if there is just to explain what that is,

1:05:28because as I said, it's a great program,

1:05:32but I think there should be a little bit

1:05:34of stick along with the carrot.

1:05:35Absolutely, no, that's a great question

1:05:38and something that staff are definitely looking into

1:05:42at all times.

1:05:43Right now, there isn't a fee that is given.

1:05:46We do have additional resources

1:05:47that we gave to patio operators last year

1:05:50to really put an emphasis

1:05:52on accessibility-related concerns as well,

1:05:54and one of the actual documents that was given

1:05:57to all businesses city-wide was a document

1:06:01around why accessibility is good for business,

1:06:04and it's things like that

1:06:06that we're really trying to educate our businesses around.

1:06:10As of right now, there is not a fee,

1:06:12but that is definitely something that we can look into

1:06:14around any non-compliances in any respect.

1:06:19Right, because it's sort of putting a cartbook

1:06:23for the horse, but financial penalties

1:06:26can be used as a tool, if used correctly,

1:06:29to ensure that level of accessibility is there,

1:06:31because we're not only concerned

1:06:32about making sure the business is fluid,

1:06:34but making sure that people have access

1:06:35to social networks as they feel free to.

1:06:40So that's just the background of that question there.

1:06:43So thank you much for your answer.

1:06:45Yeah, and something else I'll just add to that as well.

1:06:48There is no fee or fine in place as of now.

1:06:51However, we do have guidelines

1:06:52that patio operators must follow,

1:06:55and if, let's say, a patio operator were to be non-compliant

1:06:59and we went and we were able to educate

1:07:01and tell them how they can solve this issue

1:07:04and they continue to be non-compliant,

1:07:06the city does have the right of way

1:07:07if they are not compliant to pull their patio at any point.

1:07:11That's great.

1:07:11Thank you very much.

1:07:12That clarifies it for me.

1:07:13No worries.

1:07:17Okay, thank you so much, Chris.

1:07:19I can't see if there are any hands in the room,

1:07:20but I have Elizabeth next,

1:07:22and then Sarah and Leanne, is there anyone in the room?

1:07:25There's no one in the room right now.

1:07:27Yeah, okay.

1:07:28Yeah, yeah, just yet.

1:07:29I'm just trying to make sure I have a good running tally.

1:07:32Go ahead, Elizabeth.

1:07:34Great, thank you.

1:07:36My question's more about the checklist

1:07:39and assessing, you know, adherence to accessibility.

1:07:43How we take it into consideration the needs of employees

1:07:49or if they have disabilities,

1:07:51the accessibility issue of moving from, say,

1:07:54the storefront to the patio surface,

1:07:57has that been looked at

1:07:58and making sure that we meet their needs as well?

1:08:02It's a really great question.

1:08:03I think that there's an opportunity to check in

1:08:05with businesses specifically

1:08:07to see how they're approaching that,

1:08:08but on behalf of the city, no, not at this time.

1:08:13Okay, thank you so much.

1:08:22I'm not sure if there are any other questions right now.

1:08:26I have one, so I might jump in now.

1:08:28I'm trying to save mine for the end.

1:08:31So one, it's sort of a comment as well.

1:08:36One thing that I've had difficulty with,

1:08:38I'm a wheelchair and assistive device user myself,

1:08:41and I've had a really difficult time accessing downtown

1:08:44since the patio program started,

1:08:46mainly from the decrease in parking.

1:08:50And then I can't get all the way from like the MacDenell lot

1:08:53to most of the businesses.

1:08:54That's still too far for someone like me.

1:08:56It's too far for a lot of blind and low vision folks.

1:08:59It's too far for a lot of us.

1:09:01So the thing that I'm concerned about

1:09:03is when accessible spots are being taken up,

1:09:07are they being displaced to the nearest closeable space?

1:09:11Because I've definitely noticed a really big unfortunate

1:09:14increase in people without passes parking

1:09:17in those spots downtown because the parking is so limited

1:09:20and because I think there's an idea of like,

1:09:23I'm only gonna be here for a few minutes.

1:09:26I've often like noticed delivery drivers

1:09:30for like skip the dishes and stuff like that

1:09:32seem to park in the accessible spots

1:09:34because they're the only open ones now

1:09:36with decreased parking.

1:09:38So lessening those spots at all is really tricky

1:09:43for people like me.

1:09:45Yeah, I just wanted to ask about what the plan is for that.

1:09:49I've noticed in Guelph there's kind of a push toward

1:09:51the idea of a pedestrian only downtown by some groups.

1:09:54And I think people forget that cars are an accessibility

1:09:56device and some of us can't do a walking only downtown

1:09:59because some of us can't walk.

1:10:01So yeah, just keeping that in mind.

1:10:04Absolutely, I have a few things that I can answer to that.

1:10:08So one, we would never remove accessible parking spaces

1:10:13anywhere in the city and any accessible parking spaces

1:10:16that would have been in a spot prior to a patio

1:10:18being there are being relocated to the nearest place

1:10:21possible.

1:10:22Earlier in my presentation, I spoke to adding some

1:10:25additional 15 minute parking spaces

1:10:27or just additional parking spaces in general

1:10:31for accessibility purposes, for skip and Uber purposes

1:10:34for a lot of reasons.

1:10:35So that's something staff are looking into as well.

1:10:38We're also looking to chat with other municipalities

1:10:41to see if they have anything for even shorter term parking

1:10:45rather than 15 minutes.

1:10:46If that's something that we can look into.

1:10:49And then in terms of a pedestrianized downtown,

1:10:53city staff again, won't be recommending a closed

1:10:57patio program this year.

1:10:58So if I forgot anything, I apologize.

1:11:01Feel free to remind me.

1:11:03No, that's super helpful.

1:11:04Thank you so much.

1:11:05No problem.

1:11:06I did promise.

1:11:07Yeah, go ahead.

1:11:09Go ahead, Mike.

1:11:10So with this, like kind of a follow up on like a kind

1:11:14of localized thing, like having those delivery drivers

1:11:17park in those accessible spaces, will there be increased

1:11:20bylaw enforcement during this kind of patio program

1:11:23just to make sure this doesn't happen?

1:11:26Absolutely.

1:11:27So last year, that was some feedback that we received

1:11:29around with the fewer parking spaces downtown,

1:11:32some increased bylaw presence in terms of monitoring

1:11:38those 15 minute parking spaces a lot thoroughly.

1:11:41And part of the stop circling and park campaign

1:11:43that I failed to mention was we're really trying

1:11:46to shift that behavior.

1:11:49And part of the program is if you get 10 parking tickets

1:11:53downtown, you will get towed.

1:11:55And we have had a lot of folks actually,

1:11:57not a lot of folks, we have had some repeat offenders

1:12:01and their vehicles have gotten towed

1:12:03and we've really seen a shift in that now.

1:12:05And business owners aren't as inclined to park

1:12:09in front of their business now.

1:12:10They want it to be for customers.

1:12:11They want it to be for people who want to actually visit

1:12:14the downtown.

1:12:16So that's a great question.

1:12:17And to answer that, yes, there will be an increased

1:12:20bylaw presence again for the patio program season.

1:12:22And just to just have an idea,

1:12:25just gonna spitball onto that too.

1:12:28Is it possible during the length of the patio program

1:12:32to as an increased disincentive, like if you park,

1:12:36you will suffer an increased fine from this time

1:12:38to this time, because then it would further incentivize

1:12:41people to, hey, don't park down here.

1:12:43No, that's a great idea, Mike.

1:12:45No, that hasn't been something that staff have looked into.

1:12:48And I think that would, I'm not bylaw,

1:12:51so I don't know for certain, but I do believe

1:12:53that's something that we would have to go

1:12:55to change an hour in our bylaw for those parking spaces.

1:13:03Thank you so much.

1:13:05Brian, I saw your hand go up and then it disappeared,

1:13:08but we do still have a good five minutes to discuss this

1:13:11if you have anything to add or if anyone else does,

1:13:14otherwise we'll move on.

1:13:16Thank you, but my question was answered.

1:13:18So thank you.

1:13:23Perfect.

1:13:25Doesn't look like there are any other hands.

1:13:26So thank you so much for coming today.

1:13:29We really appreciate the engagement.

1:13:32Thank you for having us.

1:13:33We appreciate it as well.

1:13:35Thanks.

1:13:36Enjoy your day.

1:13:37Thanks you too.

1:13:48Sorry, I had to shift to my phone's screen reader.

1:13:51So we have the promise and design principles

1:13:53of the community engagement framework presentation now.

1:13:59We have a staff presentation from Glenn Lombard.

1:14:02Welcome back, Glenn.

1:14:03It's always a pleasure to have you.

1:14:05You can go ahead and begin.

1:14:09Thanks so much, Cherute.

1:14:10And good afternoon, everyone.

1:14:12Thanks for having me and excited to spend

1:14:15the next sort of 15 minutes chatting through

1:14:18our community engagement framework

1:14:20and some of the work that we've been tackling

1:14:23over the last number of months.

1:14:26So maybe, Sarah, I'll get you to advance to the next slide.

1:14:30So just a bit of an agenda here for the next 15 minutes.

1:14:32I'll provide a little bit of background on the project,

1:14:34the project being the review

1:14:36of our community engagement framework and practices,

1:14:39a little bit about who we spoke with.

1:14:41And I'll spend a fair bit of time talking about

1:14:44what we heard because agenda item number two,

1:14:48which we'll be asking for some discussion on

1:14:52from the AAC this afternoon,

1:14:54is really a response to what we heard

1:14:56during community engagement.

1:14:58So there's sort of two parts to that.

1:15:00One is our draft community engagement promise

1:15:03from the city to the community.

1:15:05And then our draft community engagement design principles,

1:15:08the principles with which we'll design

1:15:10and implement community engagement

1:15:13over the next number of years.

1:15:15And so those are in draft format

1:15:17and we're looking for some feedback and validation

1:15:18before moving those through

1:15:21sort of the approval timelines through the city.

1:15:24And so then we'll have a bit of discussion

1:15:26and we'll chat about next steps in the project.

1:15:30So a bit of background.

1:15:31And maybe what I'll do is ask to hold questions to the end

1:15:34and then Cher Root, I'll throw back to you.

1:15:37So the city has a community engagement framework and policy

1:15:41which were established initially in 2013.

1:15:44They were both revised in 2015

1:15:46and the framework specifically was among the first

1:15:49of its kind in Canadian municipalities.

1:15:51And if you sort of Google community engagement framework

1:15:55and then insert your favorite city name there,

1:15:57you'll see that many of them,

1:15:59the genesis of many of them began

1:16:01with the city of Guelph's community engagement framework.

1:16:03We were a real pioneer in this space

1:16:05and our framework served as inspiration

1:16:08to a lot of communities.

1:16:10And so we're looking back at almost 10 years

1:16:14of having that framework out in the world.

1:16:16And we've learned a lot through having that framework

1:16:20out in the world and having that standard

1:16:22instead of principles that guided how we work.

1:16:25And so we knew that it was time to revisit that framework.

1:16:28And we also know that the world has changed a lot.

1:16:31I think there's much greater recognition now

1:16:33than there probably was 10 years ago

1:16:36about equity, diversity, inclusion and accessibility.

1:16:41We know that coming out of the pandemic,

1:16:43there are all kinds of additional pressures

1:16:44related to community engagement.

1:16:46And so we need, again, the sort of time was right for us

1:16:49to evolve our practice.

1:16:50And so in early November, we went out to the community.

1:16:54We did broad community engagement to better understand

1:16:58really how could we evolve our framework

1:17:00and our community engagement practices

1:17:01to better meet community expectations.

1:17:06So who we spoke with,

1:17:08we spoke with a diversity of community members,

1:17:12a number of individuals from equity-denied groups,

1:17:15including those from the disability community,

1:17:18from the broader public

1:17:19and people who frequently engage with the city.

1:17:21So we really cast a very wide net

1:17:23and tapped into our networks

1:17:25and predominantly had small group

1:17:28or one-on-one conversations with people

1:17:30to really try to understand from their perspective

1:17:33how it was we could evolve our engagement practices

1:17:37and be more inclusive.

1:17:40We also talked to community partners

1:17:41and organizations, groups and cultural associations.

1:17:45Sometimes for us, those are ways to get to certain populations

1:17:51that may otherwise be challenging for us to reach

1:17:53or don't feel safe connecting with us directly.

1:17:56We talked with numerous business owners and operators,

1:18:00city staff, including accessibility services,

1:18:03public participation, consultants, academics and experts

1:18:06and current city counselors to understand

1:18:08from their perspective as counselors

1:18:10what kinds of community engagement data and information

1:18:14was helpful when it got down to making decisions for them.

1:18:20So the next two slides are about what we heard.

1:18:21And this is where I'll spend the bulk of my time

1:18:23and I'll go through these.

1:18:25I'll try to go as quickly as possible

1:18:26but give a little bit of detail.

1:18:28These are at a very high level

1:18:29but there's about 10 or 11 of these key themes

1:18:32that we heard when we went out and did engagement.

1:18:36And the first is that we need to improve the accessibility

1:18:38of engagement across various spectrums of diversity.

1:18:42So sometimes accessibility inclusion

1:18:44as it relates to our community engagement

1:18:47feel like afterthoughts for the community

1:18:49and that we need to do a better job of eliminating,

1:18:51identifying and eliminating barriers to participation.

1:18:53Everything from timing and location of meetings,

1:18:57plain language, the language we use to communicate,

1:19:00barriers related to technology,

1:19:02sensory and physical environments.

1:19:05There's a desire for us to better understand

1:19:07cultural nuances, to translate more of our work,

1:19:11to really do a better job of reaching a greater diversity

1:19:14of community members.

1:19:16We also heard as part of this theme that not all avenues

1:19:18that we provide for community engagement

1:19:20feel safe for people.

1:19:22For a whole host of reasons,

1:19:24many of which I won't go into now,

1:19:26people don't necessarily feel comfortable

1:19:29engaging with city processes.

1:19:31And so we know that that's a major barrier for us

1:19:34in increasing the diversity of people in our community

1:19:36that want to participate in city decision-making

1:19:39city processes.

1:19:40So we also heard that there's a desire from the community

1:19:43for us to really focus on relationships.

1:19:45So move beyond the transactional,

1:19:48we're engaging on this topic today

1:19:49and we only want to know this piece about it.

1:19:52Yes, there's a time and a place for that.

1:19:53And also there's a desire from the community for us

1:19:56to really be out in the community, building relationships.

1:20:00and being more president of community events, festivals,

1:20:03joining other people's meetings,

1:20:05not just the ones that we host and facilitate.

1:20:08A desire for us to get out of City Hall

1:20:11and a real feeling that because of COVID,

1:20:14some of those relational components

1:20:16have really been negatively impacted.

1:20:17And so there's a desire for us to play a more intentional role

1:20:23in terms of community building

1:20:24and relationship building going forward.

1:20:27We also need to reach more diverse community.

1:20:29This is connected to that first point.

1:20:31We heard time and time and again

1:20:33in our engagement conversations

1:20:35that we are not reaching the full diversity of community.

1:20:38We're not hearing those voices.

1:20:41This is about geography,

1:20:42but it's also about all of the other facets

1:20:44and spectrums of diversity.

1:20:46And so there's a sense that we know we need to do that

1:20:50and there's effort being made to do that,

1:20:52but we're still not reaching folks

1:20:54because there are numerous barriers

1:20:58and that as we think about what the next sort of time horizon

1:21:02or next chapter of our community engagement work is,

1:21:06it really needs to involve reaching a greater diversity

1:21:10of community members,

1:21:11people from equity-denied groups.

1:21:14And we know that that has at least in part

1:21:17to do with the reach of our city communications.

1:21:20We heard a lot about this when we spoke with the community

1:21:22that we're communicating, but we're not always communicating

1:21:27on the channels and in the ways that reach people.

1:21:32And so that's a major barrier to people being aware

1:21:35that there's community engagement going on

1:21:37and that we can entice them to participate.

1:21:43So city communications was another key area

1:21:46we heard a lot about.

1:21:48Better connecting dots was another piece.

1:21:50And that's about us doing a better job of storytelling

1:21:54why we might be engaging on a specific topic today.

1:21:57And that might be connected to something

1:21:59that we engaged previously on,

1:22:01maybe 12 or 18 months prior to that.

1:22:03And that might have been connected

1:22:05to something we engaged on prior to that.

1:22:07And sometimes we don't tell that story really well.

1:22:11The sort of classic example is we might engage on a splash pad

1:22:14and we're at the point in the overall project lifecycle

1:22:17where we're sort of, you know,

1:22:18I'm being a bit tongue in cheek here,

1:22:20but we're asking, do we want a blue slide

1:22:23or do we want red swings?

1:22:24And that can sometimes feel transactional and box-checky.

1:22:28And the reality is sometimes that's because a year ago,

1:22:31we engaged more deeply on park design

1:22:33and those kinds of things.

1:22:34And a year before that, maybe we engaged

1:22:36when we were doing park master planning

1:22:38on values that should guide park planning.

1:22:40So we need to connect those dots

1:22:42and we heard that loud and clear from the community.

1:22:46We also heard, and that's connected to that

1:22:48is reporting back more consistently about what we heard.

1:22:52We collect a lot of information

1:22:53and we gather a lot of community engagement data.

1:22:56And I think sometimes, you know, staff are busy

1:22:58and they've got a lot of things on their plate

1:23:01and we don't always do a great job

1:23:02of sharing back what we heard.

1:23:05And we heard from community that that's really important

1:23:07for a whole host of reasons, but primarily

1:23:09to help them understand how the decisions took the shape

1:23:12that they did and how data informed those decisions were.

1:23:17We know there's also an opportunity

1:23:18to leverage community engagement to spark curiosity,

1:23:20joy and inspire creativity.

1:23:22We heard that, you know, that there's lots of opportunity

1:23:26for engagement to be, to support place making,

1:23:30to build community.

1:23:32Sometimes it can feel a bit clinical.

1:23:35And so we have some opportunities

1:23:38to make engagement feel more experiential

1:23:40and participatory.

1:23:42And then I'll just rattle off these last couple here

1:23:44really quickly.

1:23:44I think earlier engagement we heard is important.

1:23:48Sometimes if we wait too late,

1:23:49that can feel very transactional and box-checky.

1:23:53We heard that the community wants us to do a better job

1:23:56of that data sharing and storytelling.

1:23:59So it's sort of connected to that piece

1:24:00around connecting the dots.

1:24:04And that there's a desire for greater clarity

1:24:07in terms of the role of advisory committee's counsel

1:24:09as it relates to community engagement.

1:24:11And so that's work that I know Clarks is taking on

1:24:14in 2023 as well to better understand that part.

1:24:17So that's a very high level summary of what we heard.

1:24:21And I'll maybe go to the next slide

1:24:23to talk about the sort of so what part of that.

1:24:25So with all of that in mind,

1:24:27we started drafting new components

1:24:29of the community engagement framework.

1:24:31And there's sort of two pieces specifically

1:24:33we wanted to share and get some feedback on.

1:24:35The first is our engagement promise,

1:24:38which is this slide.

1:24:39And the second piece is our design principles.

1:24:41So as it relates to our promise,

1:24:44when we zoom out from what we heard,

1:24:46we can see the community know,

1:24:49the community has identified there are some preconditions

1:24:51that have to exist for meaningful engagement.

1:24:54And so that third bullet point,

1:24:57we have to ensure meaningful opportunities exist

1:24:59to influence city decisions.

1:25:01But before that can really happen in a meaningful way,

1:25:04we need to be nurturing relationships

1:25:06and we need to be building capacity for participation

1:25:08both with city staff who are leading engagement

1:25:12and in the community for people to understand

1:25:15how to participate, what the processes are

1:25:17for us to make those processes more inclusive

1:25:21to reduce barriers.

1:25:22So these things sort of work in lockstep

1:25:24and the pillars of our next framework

1:25:28and the things that we're gonna be investing time

1:25:29and energy into.

1:25:30And so in a moment, I'll ask folks for a sense

1:25:34of how those land and whether those feel like they capture,

1:25:40respond to some of the community sentiments

1:25:42and thoughts of this group.

1:25:43And then on the next slide,

1:25:45we have a list of community engagement design principles.

1:25:47And so these you'll notice very much mirror some of the things

1:25:52or reflect some of the things that we heard

1:25:55when we did engagement.

1:25:56And so the design principles are really there for us

1:26:00as staff to say, if we keep these things in mind,

1:26:03if we approach community engagement

1:26:06with these things in mind,

1:26:07we are more likely to design

1:26:09more inclusive meaningful engagement.

1:26:11And so we need to be in every time we're engaging

1:26:15in the community, we need to be identifying

1:26:16and addressing barriers to participation.

1:26:19We need to focus on the needs and experiences

1:26:21of equity-denied groups

1:26:22and really center those experiences because we know,

1:26:25we center those experiences and improve upon

1:26:29how we engage equity-denied groups.

1:26:30We're gonna improve engagement in a whole host of ways.

1:26:33And to do that really meaningfully,

1:26:35we need to center the experience of equity-denied groups

1:26:38of people in the community.

1:26:39We also need to engage early and evolve our approaches.

1:26:41We go again to avoid the feeling that engagement feels

1:26:45inauthentic or transactional.

1:26:47We need to see where there are opportunities

1:26:49for us to engage much earlier in the process

1:26:52so that people feel like they have more opportunity

1:26:57to influence the kinds of decisions and change

1:27:01that's taking place in the city.

1:27:03We need to connect dots like we talked about,

1:27:05tell the story better about how data informed decisions

1:27:08or recommendations help people understand

1:27:11how the decisions that we might be engaging on today

1:27:14are connected to previous decisions

1:27:16and even future decisions.

1:27:18Sometimes we're engaging on something

1:27:19that's gonna set a tone for future planning and work.

1:27:22And so we need to do a really clear job

1:27:24of communicating that to the community.

1:27:27We need to meet the community where they are.

1:27:29And this has both a sort of like physical connotation

1:27:32but also like a ephemeral connotation in terms of,

1:27:36if community aren't ready to engage with us

1:27:38because they don't have the knowledge or skills to do so,

1:27:42we need to meet that, we need to build that capacity.

1:27:44And then from a physical perspective,

1:27:46we need to be in the community.

1:27:48This is not just about inviting people into city hall.

1:27:51This is about going where people are on buses,

1:27:54in community centers, in restaurants,

1:27:59across the board, we need to meet people where they are.

1:28:03We need to deliver diverse engagement opportunities.

1:28:05So we should think about delivering online engagement

1:28:11but also in-person engagement,

1:28:13different depths and intensities engagement,

1:28:16surveys are helpful but so are conversations.

1:28:19And so we heard time and time again

1:28:20that it's important for us to have

1:28:22kind of a portfolio approach

1:28:23when we're engaging the community

1:28:25so that depending on people's preferences,

1:28:27there's something to meet them

1:28:29in terms of how they wanna connect with us.

1:28:32And two more really quickly here,

1:28:33we need to take every opportunity we can

1:28:35to spark curiosity and joy,

1:28:36to place-make, to build community,

1:28:39and then finally to report back

1:28:41like I had talked about previously

1:28:44so that folks understand what we heard

1:28:45and how that shaped decision.

1:28:48So there are sort of two discussion pieces here

1:28:50and maybe I'll throw back to you, chair, Root

1:28:54for the discussion components.

1:28:56Really we're looking for feedback about the promise

1:28:58and the engagement design principles from this group.

1:29:03Perfect, thank you so much, Glenn.

1:29:05Deborah, go ahead.

1:29:08Great, well thank you for coming back to us.

1:29:12It was nice to have the initial conversation,

1:29:14it's good to see what you heard

1:29:16and where it's taken you.

1:29:20I have two comments.

1:29:22The first is on the draft

1:29:25community engagement design principles.

1:29:27The first bullet is really a negative bullet.

1:29:32Identify and address barriers to participation

1:29:35puts the onus on equity-denied groups

1:29:38to explain why they weren't permitted,

1:29:42but they weren't permitted in the first place.

1:29:43So to me, to address this,

1:29:46you would need to make a positive statement

1:29:49which is something like,

1:29:51ensure the implementation of inclusive design practices

1:29:56and remove identified barriers

1:29:59or address identified barriers.

1:30:01So it flips it to a proactive approach

1:30:04rather than one that requires equity-denied

1:30:07to always be the ones to say,

1:30:08well, what about us?

1:30:10Like we can do that,

1:30:11but we don't really want to always be the people that do that.

1:30:14The second is, it's a point I raised earlier

1:30:17and I can see in the last time you came

1:30:19and I can see the attempt,

1:30:22but the notion of reciprocity still to me isn't here.

1:30:27So I don't see what people get out of engaging.

1:30:32I see what the city gets out of it.

1:30:34So to me, I mean, you've used the words

1:30:36that we don't want it to become transactional.

1:30:38Well, it is transactional

1:30:40because the city is trying to get something from people.

1:30:42They're not giving.

1:30:43So yeah, it may be about relationships,

1:30:46but I don't see that it's a mutual relationship.

1:30:50Relationships imply both ways

1:30:52and I don't see there's reciprocal nature of what.

1:30:55And I don't have a suggestion of what to put in,

1:30:58except that I think that this is one of the principles

1:31:01that it should be a reciprocal and respectful relationship

1:31:05that are developed.

1:31:11Thank you for those comments.

1:31:13Very helpful.

1:31:14At one stage in an earlier draft,

1:31:16we actually had the language around reciprocity

1:31:18and it was reflective of that.

1:31:20We were sort of encouraged to move away from that language

1:31:22just because of it's the sort of plain language guidelines

1:31:25and those kinds of things,

1:31:26but absolutely your point's not lost

1:31:28and certainly Merritt's another look.

1:31:37Thank you so much.

1:31:38All right, Chris, go ahead.

1:31:39It's all you.

1:31:41Thank you.

1:31:43I've been just working in the community

1:31:46for about maybe closer to 20 years now.

1:31:50And I realized that one of the things

1:31:51that really impinges upon, as Deborah said,

1:31:55the positive reciprocity is developing a good relationship

1:31:58with communities and people with disabilities.

1:32:00And when that said, traditionally,

1:32:03it's been reflected upon as being white guys

1:32:06who have a physical disability

1:32:08is the first ones who have a chance to argue

1:32:11or be argumentative or give their analysis

1:32:13of what sort of engagement should occur.

1:32:16And I really don't, I mean, obviously,

1:32:19that isn't the correct way to follow through,

1:32:21but also there needs to be a sense of positivity

1:32:24given to the people with disabilities

1:32:26who you're interviewing.

1:32:27Like, I know that the police show up at 90 Cardin a lot

1:32:31and there's no positive relationship there.

1:32:33And to turn that around and make it into a positive,

1:32:35you take a lot of work and a lot of being humble

1:32:38to the actual individuals who reside there.

1:32:40So not necessarily a question,

1:32:43not necessarily an answer to anything that occurred before,

1:32:45but I'm just sort of trying to highlight the dilemma

1:32:49involved in saying that you want to develop

1:32:52a positive relationship with a population

1:32:53that has never been shown an olive branch

1:32:57or been shown anything positive

1:33:00because traditionally people with disabilities

1:33:01have not been the masters of their own domain.

1:33:05And as a population,

1:33:08very rarely have we been consulted on for anything.

1:33:11So if you're to approach the community and ask questions

1:33:16and there's automatically gonna be sort of a barrier set up,

1:33:21one that won't allow information to flow.

1:33:23So that's something that needs to be considered,

1:33:25I think first and foremost before this occurs

1:33:27is that how are you going to then place yourself

1:33:30in that community?

1:33:30How are you gonna develop trust?

1:33:33How are you gonna ensure that,

1:33:34if it's a population of women with disabilities

1:33:37who've been abused,

1:33:38how are you gonna ensure to receive information

1:33:41from that group positively

1:33:44in a way that sort of enshrines their information?

1:33:47You know, I'm not sure how that works

1:33:48with the whole reciprocity,

1:33:50but just sort of my take on approaching the community

1:33:53as a whole.

1:33:57Chair, can I respond to that one?

1:33:59Yeah, you can respond to everything, go for it, yeah.

1:34:02Thanks for that, Chris.

1:34:03It's a really important point

1:34:04and certainly not lost on our team

1:34:09and something we heard during engagement.

1:34:11And I think there's no easy answer.

1:34:15I think there's a couple of things that come to mind for me.

1:34:17One, I think there's in the broader framework document,

1:34:20which you're not seeing today,

1:34:22but we talk about this being a journey, not a destination.

1:34:25And so we recognize that there's work to be done here

1:34:27and that some of this is going to take a great deal of time,

1:34:31not only a different approach,

1:34:35but a great deal of time.

1:34:36And I think part of what we're putting forward

1:34:38with this framework is a commitment

1:34:39to doing that differently and evolving our approach.

1:34:43The other piece that's in there

1:34:45is a recognition that historically we've engaged

1:34:49on a project by project basis.

1:34:50So we have a thing, we want feedback on the thing,

1:34:53tell us what you think.

1:34:55And there's a recognition that that is okay as a baseline,

1:34:59but we need to be building relationships

1:35:01outside of projects.

1:35:03And so I think that's part of getting to this piece is

1:35:07the piece around positive relationships and reciprocity,

1:35:10but also just being in the community,

1:35:13building those relationships

1:35:14when there isn't an ask from the city,

1:35:17so that we can begin to develop that trust.

1:35:19And then the last piece is just as we do that,

1:35:22we need to do our research

1:35:23and we need to understand what the evolving practices are

1:35:25for engaging certain populations

1:35:27and that we're doing that in the ways that are,

1:35:33evidence informed, best practice informed,

1:35:35human centered in that way.

1:35:39That's a great response.

1:35:41And I thank you very much for that

1:35:42because I'm gonna say this one thing and then it's be quiet.

1:35:45I'm gonna shut my mic off, but people out there

1:35:49are not as might not be as animated

1:35:51as the participants in the AAC.

1:35:54They might not be professionals,

1:35:56but everybody has a voice to a certain concern.

1:36:00And I'd hate to see that being sort of left aside

1:36:04or sort of looked over by the fact

1:36:07that there are intelligent people on the AAC

1:36:10who can respond to this,

1:36:11but the real goal of that is to go out into the community

1:36:13and talk to people everywhere

1:36:15who might be impacted by social systems

1:36:19that don't allow them to speak their voice.

1:36:21So anyway, I'm gonna be quiet.

1:36:22Thank you very much for that.

1:36:23That was great.

1:36:26Thanks so much, Chris.

1:36:27And just a quick note that we've been intentionally

1:36:30adding a lot more time in for AAC engagement

1:36:32into the past couple of agendas.

1:36:34And we're gonna continue to do that.

1:36:36So nobody ever feel like you have to not speak

1:36:39or like turn off your, or not speak again

1:36:41because you've spoken a lot.

1:36:43Engagement is always great.

1:36:44So anyway, go ahead, Jeanette.

1:36:48Hi, thanks.

1:36:49Just can you go back to the first slide

1:36:50that our members have been commenting on?

1:36:57Right, so yeah, what they were saying really echoed

1:37:00what I was thinking, but in regards to,

1:37:05my hope is that this is redrafted with our feedback.

1:37:09And because some of these are tactics

1:37:13and objectives and possible activities

1:37:17rather than a vision and our value statement.

1:37:23And so I take it back to what are the best practices

1:37:27for reaching out to these underrepresented communities

1:37:33for engagement period,

1:37:35whether it's in design principles or what have you.

1:37:40So just looking for next steps

1:37:42and what you're going to be doing with our feedback

1:37:45because I see a draft motion is prepared.

1:37:49And at this point, I would hope that this would be reworked

1:37:53to include our agenda or our suggestions

1:37:58and whatever other feedback you're collecting as well.

1:38:02Just wondering on next steps.

1:38:04Thank you.

1:38:06I'm happy to talk about next steps.

1:38:07Sarah, I think there's a slide around next step

1:38:09so I can touch on that really quickly.

1:38:12So we're in the process of circulating draft components

1:38:17of our next community engagement framework,

1:38:22sort of broadly in the community,

1:38:23there's a have your say page.

1:38:25We're having conversations just like this externally

1:38:28and internally to understand,

1:38:30did we hear you correctly?

1:38:31How do we still need to evolve those?

1:38:33And so that's exactly what today's about

1:38:36is getting that feedback.

1:38:37And then from there,

1:38:39we'll further evolve our promise and principles.

1:38:42Some of those other pieces you referenced,

1:38:44the sort of broader vision,

1:38:45some of those live in other parts of the document

1:38:49and we didn't have time today to engage on those,

1:38:52but we really wanted to engage on the design principles.

1:38:56Yes, they are sort of a mix of tactical things,

1:38:58but part of the feedback we got in the first round

1:39:02around the principles

1:39:03in the initial community engagement framework

1:39:05was that they were very, very high level,

1:39:09almost value-based principles

1:39:11and people wanted to better understand

1:39:13what those look like in practice.

1:39:14How do you actually animate those?

1:39:16And so we decided on,

1:39:18we made the sort of decision to go with design principles

1:39:21so that if we're designing engagement

1:39:22and we sort of do these things,

1:39:25plus or minus some language reworks,

1:39:27are we getting closer to more meaningful engagement

1:39:30that feels more authentic

1:39:32and that connects with broader community

1:39:34in a positive kind of way.

1:39:36So, and so our goal is to bring all of us to council

1:39:42in the early part of June

1:39:44and get their buy into our,

1:39:47what we're calling our community engagement charter,

1:39:49which is really just components of a broader framework.

1:39:52The framework will also consist of a policy,

1:39:54staff resources, a multi-year plan

1:39:58for how we actually work towards the vision

1:40:00that's articulated in the charter.

1:40:03And then we'll return to the AAC to reflect on,

1:40:08to sort of share how your feedback helped shaped

1:40:10those sort of council,

1:40:12hopefully council approved community engagement framework.

1:40:17Thanks, Glenn.

1:40:18Awesome, thank you so much.

1:40:21Chris, I see your hand up.

1:40:22Is that a legacy hand or did you have another comment?

1:40:26Sorry, legacy hand.

1:40:28Yeah, that's fine.

1:40:29Okay.

1:40:30Mike has a hand up.

1:40:32Yeah, I was just gonna ask, are there any in the room?

1:40:34Go ahead, Mike.

1:40:36All right, cool.

1:40:37Yeah, I just wanna say,

1:40:38I like a lot of what I'm actually seeing here

1:40:40and I can see a lot of this reflected in the conversations

1:40:43Glenn, you and I had about a month ago.

1:40:46And I really like the fact

1:40:48that you wanna create and nurture relationships.

1:40:51And as another member just mentioned,

1:40:53it's gonna take time.

1:40:54There are some vulnerable populations

1:40:56who unfortunately have a lot of bad things happen.

1:40:58But I think if I've learned anything

1:41:01by working with the city staff here in Guelph,

1:41:05conversations can happen.

1:41:08Relationships can and will develop over time.

1:41:11So I feel very positive about this.

1:41:14And I just really am looking forward to seeing

1:41:17as this develops further,

1:41:18we can develop things that make everybody happy.

1:41:21Everybody feels heard, valued,

1:41:24and this city grows stronger as a result

1:41:27of all of us working together

1:41:29rather than against each other.

1:41:31And I'm, like I said, I'm very happy with this.

1:41:34I think there might be some small tweaks here and there

1:41:36to be made, but I like what I've seen so far.

1:41:45Awesome, thank you so much.

1:41:47I don't see any other comments.

1:41:49I just kinda wanna echo what Mike just said,

1:41:51so I haven't had any conversations with you

1:41:54outside of AAC meetings, but I've heard back,

1:41:57I've heard directly from a few people in the community

1:42:00who have heard from you.

1:42:02And one of them, I actually pulled up the email

1:42:05because they specifically mentioned you

1:42:07and this framework and had some feedback and just said,

1:42:11do you know who Glenn Lombard is?

1:42:12I met with him recently and it seems like

1:42:14some changes are coming to Guelph.

1:42:16Only time will tell, but for the first time ever,

1:42:18I feel like the city is actually excited

1:42:20about true allyship that centers us.

1:42:22And that's really encouraging for me to hear.

1:42:24It's similar to other things I've heard from other people

1:42:27who've been involved in this discussion with you so far.

1:42:30It's similar to how I've felt the AAC has been heard

1:42:33and listened to, like really thoroughly listened to

1:42:36and heard when you've come here.

1:42:38And I'd love to see that continue.

1:42:39And the one thing that I would kind of wanna caution against,

1:42:44not that I've seen any sign of this,

1:42:46but I've seen it in other areas where I've tried

1:42:48to advocate for accessibility,

1:42:51is there becomes a fatigue sometimes

1:42:53on the end of the service provider

1:42:56or there becomes this kind of expectation

1:43:00that the marginalized group must be polite and palatable

1:43:04and appropriate and ask very nicely for our needs to be met.

1:43:07But I'm sure you can understand that when someone's

1:43:09entire existence revolves around them having to advocate

1:43:12all day, every day for the rights that everybody else has,

1:43:16it gets frustrating.

1:43:17So a lot of our voices end up being loud

1:43:20and abrasive and argumentative.

1:43:22And it's really encouraging when I see people

1:43:26still willing to take feedback from groups

1:43:28that are argumentative and loud

1:43:30and don't feel the need to have to kind of sugarcoat

1:43:34all of the feedback that we're giving.

1:43:36And I get that vibe here.

1:43:37And I'd like to encourage that to continue as well.

1:43:40But thank you very much.

1:43:43Thank you.

1:43:44Thank you all for your positive comments.

1:43:49Laura Lai.

1:43:50Yeah, I was just gonna,

1:43:52are you gonna bring up the motion?

1:43:54I was gonna bring up the motion,

1:43:55but I was gonna just read something out

1:43:56that I thought might be a good motion.

1:43:59And you take it from there if that's okay.

1:44:02So it is what's on the screen, but it has an addition.

1:44:06So I'm just gonna read it out.

1:44:07This could be the motion that the AAC supports

1:44:10the community engagement promise and design principles

1:44:13as proposed with consideration to the comments

1:44:17and feedback provided by the committee

1:44:19at the meeting held on April 18th.

1:44:26So we have some time for people to discuss

1:44:29and if anyone would like to put that motion forward

1:44:31or amend it and then put it forward, go ahead, Jeanette.

1:44:37I'm just wondering if it's a little too early

1:44:39in the process.

1:44:40We agree with the work in principle,

1:44:43but to consider our comments,

1:44:47we don't know how our comments and feedback

1:44:50will be utilized in the plan yet.

1:44:53So I personally would just like to see

1:44:55that we're hitting the mark in respect to

1:44:58what's valuable and important to these members.

1:45:02That's important.

1:45:03That's, I agree with you there.

1:45:05I just wanna make a note that Glenn will be returning

1:45:08as well and estimated, I think Q3 or Q4 of this year

1:45:12to the AAC to show exactly how those comments

1:45:15and feedback we did provide today

1:45:18and through the community engagement

1:45:19that will continue to go on

1:45:22and show how those shaped what will go to council

1:45:25or what is being proposed.

1:45:28All right, thank you for those comments.

1:45:37Yeah, so would anyone like to put forward a motion

1:45:42or amend the motion that Sarah made

1:45:45and then put forward a motion so we can give the city

1:45:49our official feedback that'll be on the minutes.

1:45:51Nothing is on the minutes if we don't make motion, so.

1:45:54Yes.

1:45:55I think I support what Sarah just put together.

1:45:59Okay, so we'll put you down for the motion or Ted,

1:46:01then we need a seconder.

1:46:05Deborah?

1:46:08Oh, question.

1:46:08I have a question, Nauta.

1:46:10So it's a question for Glenn,

1:46:12which is if we were to give you,

1:46:18so I understand Sarah's version encourages you

1:46:23to consider what we've said in your revisions.

1:46:28If we were to be more directive,

1:46:30would that be any more helpful

1:46:33or what is helpful in terms of making sure

1:46:39that things don't get lost or I don't know how else to say that.

1:46:49Yeah, Cherie, if I can respond to that.

1:46:51I think, I mean, I've taken notes.

1:46:53I know that there's someone in the room taking notes

1:46:55and some of those notes will get shared.

1:46:58So I think that's really important.

1:47:00I think if you, Deborah, it felt like you had some sort of

1:47:03like really specific language around that first principle.

1:47:06I'm like, nothing I heard felt like it's out of step

1:47:10with the direction that we wanna take that.

1:47:12And if we can reframe that in a positive light,

1:47:15I don't see any challenges with us doing that.

1:47:19I realized there were some other pieces around reciprocity,

1:47:22which we have to wrestle with just

1:47:24from an inclusive language perspective.

1:47:27But yes, I'm happy to sort of take suggested language

1:47:31on that first principle.

1:47:33I just wanna know too that we are being recorded.

1:47:36So what's really great is that staff can also listen

1:47:38to exactly what was said in the meeting.

1:47:41So it was a little less pressure

1:47:42on making sure that our note taking is specific.

1:47:47So if indeed the notes are going to be used

1:47:50and the notes can be specific,

1:47:52I'm happy to try and repeat it,

1:47:54but I think the notes,

1:47:55I'm not so good the second time around.

1:47:58Thinking through it,

1:47:59I think so if you catch me on the first time,

1:48:00it's pretty good.

1:48:02So I'm happy to second this motion then.

1:48:06Super.

1:48:08Laura, I'm back to you to see who may be opposed.

1:48:11Yes, so now we vote on,

1:48:13if anyone is opposed to that motion,

1:48:21no hands digitally, are there any in the room?

1:48:25Okay, it looks like that motion carries, perfect.

1:48:29Thank you, Glen.

1:48:31Thanks so much, Glen.

1:48:32Thank you everyone.

1:48:33We'll see you again soon, I'm sure.

1:48:34Sounds good, take care.

1:48:35See you later, Glen.

1:48:41Well, I almost just left the meeting by accident.

1:48:43That would have been funny.

1:48:45Okay.

1:48:46So we have the next item on the agenda

1:48:53is just a staff presentation.

1:48:55There's no real discussion needed.

1:48:57They're kind of filling us in on a policy memo

1:49:01that's been created by traffic calming.

1:49:03So we have Lerez Fridman.

1:49:07If you're here, you can go ahead,

1:49:08you've got five minutes of presentation.

1:49:12Okay, good afternoon everyone.

1:49:13It's Steve Anderson here representing

1:49:16the traffic group and this policy.

1:49:18So just a quick update,

1:49:21we've been to the AAC a handful of times over the years

1:49:26to talk about different traffic calming initiatives.

1:49:29And this memo really sort of summarizes

1:49:31some work that's been done and some next steps.

1:49:33And I think what's important to really highlight here

1:49:37is we're getting close.

1:49:39About this time in 2025, we'll be coming to the AAC

1:49:43is we'll be updating our traffic calming policy.

1:49:47And there's a lot happening in the field of road safety.

1:49:52So there's a lot of other tools in the toolbox

1:49:55that we're excited to kind of present

1:49:57and talk to you about.

1:49:59And one of the bigger things also to note

1:50:02that will be happening this summer, August 1st,

1:50:06we'll be activating our first four

1:50:08automated speed enforcement cameras,

1:50:11which will help us try to encourage drivers to slow down

1:50:15without needing to put any vertical measures

1:50:17in the roadway.

1:50:18So with that, Lorely, I'm happy to take a few questions

1:50:24if you want, but I think the rest is there on the memo.

1:50:30We allowed to do discussion and questions

1:50:32on a four information item.

1:50:33Sarah and Leanne, I don't know how that works.

1:50:36Generally, we can always ask questions, yes,

1:50:39but it has to be about what the content in the memo is.

1:50:43Okay, perfect.

1:50:44Sorry, I just wanted to clarify.

1:50:46Thank you for updating us on that memo.

1:50:48Are there any questions about that memo from anyone here?

1:50:59Not in the room.

1:51:01All right, it looks like that was very brief,

1:51:04but thank you so much for filling us in.

1:51:06That's awesome.

1:51:07Thank you for coming today.

1:51:09Thank you very much.

1:51:10I'm sorry, I had the wrong person listed.

1:51:12I didn't realize that you were here today instead.

1:51:16Thank you.

1:51:17Yeah, thank you, Steve.

1:51:18All right, so now we have the site plan internal review report

1:51:22and new legislation impacts.

1:51:24This was on the February agenda, but we deferred it

1:51:26because we didn't have enough time.

1:51:28So it's another four information.

1:51:30Sarah is gonna kind of fill us in on some of the changes.

1:51:33I believe you started and then we lost quorum.

1:51:36You're right, go ahead.

1:51:38Thank you very much.

1:51:39So we did cover almost, I would say 95% of this item

1:51:44at February, so I'm really just looking to finish it off.

1:51:49I feel like the AAC is pretty informed right now

1:51:52on this topic in that, I'm talking about site plan review

1:51:56and the AAC's position in that process

1:51:59and that internal process that we have.

1:52:01So to date, I am happy to report

1:52:03that we've had, I believe, four more members

1:52:07that went through training recently to review site plans.

1:52:10And so we're just getting them up and running.

1:52:13Some of them are definitely sitting around the table today.

1:52:16And some of those new members who have received the training

1:52:19have also attended our site plan review meetings

1:52:21that happen every other Tuesday evening at six o'clock.

1:52:25And so they've got the training

1:52:28and we're starting to practice it, which is awesome.

1:52:30I also have upcoming training next Tuesday

1:52:32with two more members to do some site plan review training

1:52:37and get some more members able to participate

1:52:39in those review meetings that we have.

1:52:43And so if, I'll put this out there again,

1:52:46if there are any members who are interested in the training

1:52:49who haven't yet received the training

1:52:51or maybe even they just want a refresher training,

1:52:53please connect with me

1:52:55and we can definitely get something scheduled.

1:52:57And we're looking to hopefully have more members attend

1:53:02the review meeting.

1:53:03So just again, another reminder

1:53:05that it is a voluntary participation.

1:53:09So it's not a requirement of you as a member

1:53:12who has training to actually come out to every meeting.

1:53:15We just hope to get as many of you for as many meetings

1:53:18as we possibly can to review those plans

1:53:22in terms of accessibility elements and requirements.

1:53:26So a very high level, there has been some new legislation.

1:53:29This has impacted our processes

1:53:32and now the comments that are submitted through staff,

1:53:36two developers or applicants

1:53:40are all following a two-stream kind of process

1:53:43in that they're either requirements

1:53:45or they're recommendations.

1:53:47If they are requirements,

1:53:49then they're in line with the AODA

1:53:51and our comprehensive zoning bylaw,

1:53:54which did just get passed actually earlier today

1:53:56with some amendments.

1:53:58And if they're recommendations,

1:54:00then generally it's above and beyond

1:54:02what the AODA requirements are.

1:54:04And we kind of look more to the FADM

1:54:06because it includes AODA and goes beyond it

1:54:11to make those recommendations.

1:54:14And then the last thing is,

1:54:15is we are continuing to have those review meetings.

1:54:21The AAC, I'm just sorry, trying to get to it here.

1:54:25The AAC currently reviews plans

1:54:27that are industrial, commercial,

1:54:29or multi-residential use plans.

1:54:32And then like I said, it's volunteer for the meetings

1:54:35and they happen every two weeks on Tuesdays.

1:54:38They can go up for up to two hours,

1:54:41but lately folks who have been attending

1:54:43can definitely would know this,

1:54:45that we only had a couple of plans to review

1:54:48in the last couple of weeks.

1:54:49So it's really only been about 30 minute meetings.

1:54:52And I've been really trying to inform the AAC members

1:54:55and I wanna send out the link for the Tuesday review meetings

1:55:00to let you know how many plans we have on the roster

1:55:03so that you can kind of have an estimate of the time

1:55:06it might take to review those plans.

1:55:11So with that, I do see a handout,

1:55:13but I'll go back to Lorelai.

1:55:16I almost called you just rude.

1:55:18Yeah, that's fine.

1:55:18I knew what you meant.

1:55:20Yeah, we only have two minutes left

1:55:22before we have to adjourn.

1:55:23So go ahead, Jeanette, but...

1:55:26Very quick.

1:55:27Okay, so I took the site planning session meeting.

1:55:30I'm new to seeing what's being done under the AODA

1:55:35is Guelph a community and our developers

1:55:37and those involved in site planning,

1:55:39do they like to and are they the types

1:55:42that will do more than the minimum requirement,

1:55:45which is the AODA?

1:55:46Just wondering to get a sense of how we're doing

1:55:49as a community.

1:55:50That is a really good question.

1:55:52I would say that's a tough one to answer.

1:55:58The thing is, is this kind of like

1:56:00they may not want to go over above the minimum

1:56:03in some cases, not all cases, but in some cases,

1:56:06but I'm happy to be able to have the knowledge

1:56:10and continue my learning in this as well,

1:56:13to be able to justify and provide context

1:56:17that no, it's not just requirement versus recommendation.

1:56:21It's actually that there may be some recommendations

1:56:24that support a requirement.

1:56:26So an example of that could be

1:56:29if there's an accessible route at the head of a parking stall

1:56:33or accessible parking stall,

1:56:34and it's less than two meters wide,

1:56:36we recommend that you put curb stops in your parking space

1:56:40so that the vehicle's not going to overhang

1:56:42and obstruct or narrow that route any more

1:56:45than it already is.

1:56:46And so that's kind of like a recommendation

1:56:48that supports a requirement.

1:56:50And I will say, I would say about nine times out of 10,

1:56:55developers and applicants are listening

1:56:56to those recommendations because there is more context

1:56:59provided and it is in line or supporting a requirement.

1:57:07Thank you so much.

1:57:09If from my personal experience,

1:57:11they've never been eager to go above and beyond

1:57:13because we're mostly dealing with developers

1:57:15who are like building projects for corporations

1:57:19and things like that.

1:57:20They're trying to come in under budget,

1:57:21but Sarah sure does give them a run for their money

1:57:26and we seem to see results.

1:57:29So that's great, whether or not they're eager.

1:57:32Anyway, that's five PM.

1:57:34So we don't need a motion to adjourn

1:57:36if we end at five, right?

1:57:38We just adjourned.

1:57:39Okay, perfect.

1:57:40Thank you everyone so much.

1:57:42I'll see you all at the next meeting.

1:57:46I'm so sorry, my computer restarted.

1:57:49It's on a big refresh.

1:57:50So I got kicked out, my apologies.

1:57:52Oh, that's okay.

1:57:53We just adjourned.

1:57:54So you're good.

1:57:57Okay.

1:57:58Bye.

1:57:59Bye.

1:58:02I'm gonna get the door there for you.

1:58:03Oh, sure.

1:58:04You're good.

1:58:05All right, can't see.