Planning, Environment and Water Advisory Committee

0:03As we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in a

0:07wealth, a city built over rich indigenous histories. We are guests here and we

0:12should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land, the people who live

0:16here today and the generations to come. For actions today can move us towards

0:21reconciliation, we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and

0:25gratitude. This place we call wealth has served us as traditional lands and

0:31a place of refuge for many people over time. More specifically, the Atawanda

0:37Runk and the Haudenosaunee. This land is held as treaty lands and territory

0:44with Mississauga's of the Credit First Nation. Wealth lies directly adjacent to

0:49the Halibut Track and it is part of the longest-established traditional hunting

0:53ground for the six nations of the Grand Arborette. Many First Nations, Inuit and

0:58Ate peoples who have come across Turtle Island called Wolf Hall today. With that,

1:06any disclosure, funerary interest and general nature thereof? Seeing none. We

1:15have a minutes from our meeting of the life or teeth. Any errors or

1:25submissions? I get a move to someone move to accept the minutes. And

1:33second. All in favour? So I guess we go with the next step is whether we can just

1:48accept the agenda as laid out. Is there any comments, questions, concerns about

1:53the agenda? We'll accept it as written. And so we have a presentation from Brian,

2:00which is the sort of last phase of our orientation, this one dealing with

2:04energy climate. And then we will get into two committee items. One is the official

2:10plan update from Lucas and another presentation from Brian on the

2:15vacation action plan. So Brian, will you like me to share your

2:24PowerPoint so I can just do it for you? Sure, whatever it is, or if you want me to

2:30sign on and can do the same. As you like. Okay, why don't we have you do it for now?

2:39And then? Yes, sir. Okay, we do. Give me a sec, sorry. The computer is extremely slow.

2:45Okay, thanks for this. I don't know how the other orientation is, but I'll see how

3:03this one goes. Yeah, so, Brian, could I just interrupt for one sec? So Winnie, do you know that

3:12Forest and Karen, Karen joined us? Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the update. Thank you.

3:24I would like to kind of stand up and walk in. So for the folks on the on the call to I'll try to

3:30explain what I'm looking at. So I managed the energy and climate change team.

3:39And I'll jump in that. So I've been doing that for about the nine, nine years or so,

3:44which is amazing. That's been that long or such a quick round of time.

3:51By the way, so next slide, please, Wayne. The energy and climate change team. Well,

3:57let me just start off with a few points. I mean, you guys don't say it well, but just kind of just

4:01context, you know, population of roughly about 150,000, one of the fastest growing

4:06cities in Ontario and continue to grow. We're single term municipality, some of you may have heard

4:13that term, but really just looking at all the things that we manage as a city. So things from,

4:21you know, recreation parks, parks, washrooms, like things that small, massive community centers,

4:28through the waste water treatment plants, solid waste management facilities. So a real,

4:36you know, wide range of facilities that the corporation in the city of Wolfe deals with.

4:43You know, different from multi tiered municipalities, say like the region of Waterloo.

4:47If the city of Waterloo that does their thing is a small subset or not a subset, but

4:53does their aspect of things and then the region takes care of other aspects.

4:57We're kind of that one stop shop kind of deal. And so it makes my colleagues job fun and that we

5:07get this diversity of things to deal with as we're doing our day to day stuff.

5:12In terms of the size of the corporation of 2000 ish full time and part time employees. So

5:20a lot of great people doing work. And again, many different aspects of work, given the diversity of

5:26things that the municipality manages. And then the energy and climate change team. So we're small

5:34but scrap the group, engineers on a team, project managers as well. It's a picture of at least the

5:43five of us plus there's another not at that time that photo that's joined in. And really,

5:50our mandate started off with the corporate side of things. I'm going to use that term quite often,

5:56corporate being what the municipal operations are anything from rolling stock to buildings to

6:04process equipment and all those things. And then have kind of this weird relationship with the

6:10community. We are the city, the municipality, we serve the public, the public serving, you guys

6:16are my bosses, right? But then how do we do things given that we're single through municipality?

6:23You know, Wayne does water and making sure that it's clean and potable, the distribution side of

6:32it going into all of our houses, all of our businesses and all those things. How does it kind

6:37of, you know, that positioning of, you know, we manage that infrastructure, we manage these

6:44community centers, we manage these buildings as a preparation, but then also how it serves and gets

6:49out to the public. And we'll talk a little bit more about that in terms of climate change.

6:54And really what we're after when we talk about climate change, at least from my aspect of

6:59energy and climate, so greenhouse gas emissions. The types of work kind of touched on that a little

7:07bit. So looking at policy from both corporate and a community side of things. So work with folks

7:15like Lucas and others on planning team two and how they're putting together some of the policies for

7:21probably like the public or even our friends bylaw and public works. But then also even

7:29internal staff and policies and how we do things as a corporation. Any processes, programs, you'll

7:35hear things on your homes program, things like that. But even just really looking at data and

7:40how we're tracking against our greenhouse gas emissions targets, and then actually doing something

7:45about it to reduce our emissions. So getting that into implementing projects. So an element of my

7:54work is working with other peers and connecting with other municipalities. We're the energy

8:00file, the climate change file is a weird one. It can reside in many different spots

8:04in a given organization for municipalities. We're told in a way that I think is, I think unique is

8:11a strong word. There are some few other municipalities that kind of work the way that we do, but

8:17we're on the fewer minority side of things where we're not just kind of at that program

8:22policy level, but we're also looking at how we get projects going, rolling up our sleeves and

8:28getting things and helping to get those results. So our projects, you know, as we get into retrofit

8:36projects or new construction projects, image from zero dollars, you know, the what changes,

8:43operational changes can we do, but also up to fairly large ones like a retrofit in a building,

8:50but even brand new construction projects. And so I put 200 million, like our largest

8:56capital project that's coming across books right now with the World Transit Fleet Services

9:00facility that's within my community. Next slide, Winnie. What was that project? The World Transit

9:10Fleet Services facility. Just quickly on climate change. Actually, I just wanted to pause real

9:18quick. There, I think there were other, there was kind of background material that way shared as well,

9:25or so with the reports of the 100 RE report, the environmental sustainability reports and all those

9:31things. So if anybody's got questions or I might make some references to some of those things as well, too.

9:40Okay, so just a quick thing on climate change, you know, I use this slide and some of the other

9:46talking things that I've done, but you know, it's affecting everybody, everywhere, the globe,

9:52but we tend to lose sight of, you know, it hitting home. And where we're seeing things,

9:58I still remember that conversation I had with Hugo back when you were the public health,

10:03like he waves being the top consideration. So I wasn't here this past summer, but I heard and

10:10saw the headlines of watching, you know, massive he waves coming through Guelph and neighboring

10:15jurisdictions as well. I was also feeling the heat. I was in China and it was constantly 30

10:21less degrees. So it was pretty well. But we're seeing it in other ways, you know, all seasons,

10:27heavy snow, ice storms, extreme winds, all those things that are happening. We're in level two for

10:32terms of drought right now. We went through the, the sponging moth stuff. I remember that a couple

10:40years ago, you know, we're seeing it in all aspects and, and how those impacts and how climate

10:47change is affecting us, you know, through, through things like biodiversity, human health,

10:52all those, all those things, infrastructure damage. I feel like I'm kind of talking to the

10:56environment, it seems to require a little bit, but just, just want to really hit that home that

10:59it's not a, it's not only a global phenomenon, it is a global phenomenon, but it is also an at-home

11:05issue. And that's something that I feel that we do have to kind of remind people in Guelph,

11:09like we're fortunate that we live in a, in a locale that we are seeing some impacts of it,

11:15but we're still able to, to get by, you know, talking to people internationally. There's a lot

11:20more impacts, or a bit more acute. I'll go, can you go to the next slide, please, Rene?

11:28Also, if there's any questions again, feel free. If I'm skipping over things, please also let me know.

11:35So I, I'll go to brother, our targets. So on the community scale, there's something that we have

11:43called the city's race to zero. So we come back, pick it up to the high, high, high level internationally.

11:52There's the Paris Aquarium point of that 1.5 degrees Celsius icon there. And that's where we're

11:57really stopping the global warming. And then, you know, many countries across the globe have

12:07signed up for this Paris Accord. Hopefully, we didn't have people opting out of it again,

12:13even though they weren't in our neighbors to the south. But internationally, that's what the world

12:20is doing. And to, to maintain that 1.5 degrees Celsius increase or limit that limit,

12:28one of the programs in its United Nations based program was called the city's race to zero.

12:34It required cities like the city of Guelph and others out at sign up to take on what was called

12:41science based immigrants. And that's where we came down to this 63% reduction by 2030.

12:4763% is such a weird, clunky number. How did we come up with 63% or what 63% comes from is

12:58factors in human development index, if actors in GTT, it's really looking at what is Guelph's

13:04contribution given the locale and the region that it is in, how it can help to

13:10the collective global reduction of 50% by 2030. And that's a 63% reduction against 2018,

13:18what we were emitting back in 2018. Because we're a more prosperous country and unfortunate country,

13:24that's why it's pushing us north of that 50% using those indexes. That's where the 63%

13:32overcame. And then so as that is an interim target for 2030, then that's going to then move

13:40on to a net zero carbon by 2050 target where all everybody should be going forward.

13:48So does that account for the growth in population too?

13:52Okay, good point Claire. Yeah, so I tend to gloss over this because it gets a little bit more

14:00GTT, but yes, this is a per capita reduction if you really get down to the heart of it.

14:07So as we grow, we started with that, you know, we're at 150,000,

14:12Lucas will probably correct me on this, but if we're even for 170 by 2050 or 200,000 by that,

14:19that would factor in. So on that, here's our at the top left with

14:29these are 2023 numbers. There's a bit of a lag in terms of that community scale data and us

14:35getting that. So we're all constantly working with our partners or utility partners, but we're

14:40at about 918,000 tons in the geographic boundaries of Wolf without getting the key. So that includes,

14:50I live in Wolf, so my home, but I work in Wolf, where is the businesses around Wolf? Even the

14:57transportation that goes through Wolf. So at 918,000 tons on a per capita basis, that puts us

15:04at about 5.98 tons per person at Wolf. And then we have these targets, a big part of it is tracking

15:13progress against that, right? So here's our 2018, I'm looking at the bar graph, the green and green

15:19bar graph. We are tracking data since our 2018 baseline, our gray bars are what the actual numbers

15:27were coming in. The green bars are saying, hey, if we wanted to get to what we project is that 63%

15:35reduction by 2030, that's what the green bars represent. You see a big X at the top, the top

15:42right of that green bar graph. And it's essentially saying we are not on track. You can see the gray

15:51bars aside from COVID dropping us down, we're climbing back up, and the green bars are going in

16:00the opposite direction where we're supposed to be. That purple line there as well is showing

16:05what the 63% reduction should be. So we should be in about five years. Ideally, we would be at that

16:12400,000 level. We also take the data and then looking at the bottom right corner, we also look

16:22at that data and we slice it in different ways, slice it by sector. So we look at what are residential

16:28buildings are contributing, what are institutional commercial buildings, university, wealths,

16:35cooperators' buildings, all those things. That applies into there. Then there's the industrial

16:41building, so our lettermars or statements breweries, all those guys. And you can see across those

16:49that the vertical infrastructure, at least the buildings, they're pretty even spread,

16:55you know, that 20 to 25%. Bumps up for transportation. We can see that there's still a lot of gas

17:02going out there, big contribution to what the total 918,000 is. And then there's also

17:11at the far rate, the 4.2%. So that's our fugitive emissions from wastewater and our waste management.

17:22So you can see that Laura's hand is up. Your question has been presentation or not.

17:29Yes, thank you. I'm just wondering, yeah, you can see that the quantity of CO2 is going up over

17:37the last two years. What are the trends like in the different sectors? Like is a lot of this

17:43coming from one particular sector? Are they all kind of growing at a similar rate? I'm just kind

17:48of curious. Yeah, I'd say no sector is doing spectacularly well. We did see, if I recall,

18:02I'll have to confirm this through the numbers again. But if I recall, the residential buildings,

18:08it's a little bit of a drop when comparing it to the previous year. COVID being so recent to

18:16really put a weird outlier to things. But yeah, I would say generally, aside from the shape of

18:27the bottom right, you know, where we're seeing the different sectors split up, it's generally kept

18:32that shape. Thank you. So I'm just thinking, so does the UN give concrete targets to Canada?

18:50And then do they get passed on to municipalities or how does it work really?

18:58I would say, I wouldn't say that is necessarily definitive. Or like the UN doesn't say Canada

19:05would not want you to get a pony up. But it's really that they signed up to say, hey, you know,

19:09amongst all these different countries, this is what we're going to do. We're going to say that

19:13we're going to do our part before we limit to 1.5 degrees. And then they're saying,

19:19you know, here is our plan. This is our reduction targets. And then so Canada has said targets

19:25that are even provincially, there are targets that are said. And then they're tracking it through

19:32our national reporting and IR national inquiry. So that does all go up to the UN in terms of

19:40track and progress. And do we have a way of comparing, say, we're like 5.98 tons per person

19:49in Guelph. Do we know what the neighboring municipalities like, in my compare, how wealth

19:55residents are doing versus, say, what a low-came-bridge-kitchener. But do we have those sort of

20:00comparisons? Yeah, just curious. One, I'm going to think, yes, we should. And there are numbers out

20:08there. It's challenging because not everybody's consistent in the way that they're reporting.

20:16You know, what are they including in their boundary? How are they, what are they calling,

20:20what are they following? What should be, now it's changing and people are starting to kind of

20:24go towards that same thing. The other side is it's not everybody does annual reporting like we do.

20:31So I've been pushing my peers to kind of do that. But we're going through an exercise and not being

20:36able to say, it's 5.98 billion or is it bad? Yeah. It's a good benchmark, right? Yeah. And I mean,

20:43that's what our target is, though. Like our target is really saying, hey, what were we doing back

20:46then and how are we reducing compared to that? The other side is, if we look at Hamilton,

20:53they've got Arsenal or middle of the fast school and US Steel or Stelgo or whatever they're called

20:58these days. Those are really intense, they're the Queen and all these other things. There are

21:05different beasts that we are. Right? So that 5.98 would probably look different. So just one last

21:15point on this, you folks on the advisory committee and at Gualfites, we are in this. This is us.

21:24Everybody's in this and I'm in this in many spots. You know, like I live in Gualf, I work in Gualf,

21:29so this is a regional commercial as well and so are industrial sites. I'd sit around Gualf,

21:34so I'm contributing to that transportation. I generate waste. I'm all over that, right? And so

21:40all of us are in that. That's kind of that message that we have to really get out there. And that

21:46would be that that ad or sorry, that other background information piece that community called

21:52climate action and the intention of that of saying, look, you know, we've gone through

22:01this thinking of climate change and looking at, you know, and it still is that point, you know,

22:05pointing at who like, well, they're going to fix it for us. And really, it's everybody's going to

22:10contribute. It's a collective and all of us have to kind of do that. So I'll be sure to come to

22:15you folks in terms of getting ideas on how we kind of activate the community and move on its targets.

22:21All right. Next slide, please, Wany. On the corporate side of things, we also do the tracking.

22:31So we're looking at the boundary of our municipal operations, just our fleet vehicles, our process

22:36equipment, our facilities. We take all that utility information and our fuel information,

22:42and we come down to this again, tracking against the 2018 baseline and looking at it on, I'll

22:48skip over the green graph, but looking at the blue first. So looking at it on an equivalent energy.

22:54So we use different types of energy, so propane, diesel, natural gas, gasoline, electricity, all

23:02of those things. And then so putting it on what we're using is our kilowatt hour equivalent.

23:09This is how we're making and we're making progress in terms of energy reduction. So hence the green

23:16check mark on the blue bar graph to the right is our translating that to what the carbon dioxide or

23:26greenhouse gas emissions equivalent is. Looking at it as a split, so close to 60% of it is coming

23:34out of our fleet vehicles or rolling stock. 41% is our facilities. We have seemed to bend the

23:42curve around 22, 23, 24 coming down a little bit. Still giving it an X because it's just not

23:49fast enough that we've got to do more. There are some pressures that come along with this.

23:55We spoke about city growth. We are public facilities and all that stuff or more water

24:04distribution, say we're more solid waste management through Heather's group and all that stuff. So as

24:09the population grows, it has impacts on what we are doing and how we're using fuel and energy.

24:16The other side of it too though is what we're seeing is the Ontario electricity grid. So as we're

24:22doing energy conservation but also moving towards electric, what's going against us is the Ontario

24:30grid is clean. Well, it's still very clean compared, but yes, it is going the other way. And we are

24:39very nervous about the next bunch of inventories because that electricity factor and I'll get

24:47into that too is growing when we talk about them. I want to go back to the green bar graph.

24:53There was another piece of information, I think it was like a 2019 report when we defined what was

24:59termed the 100 RE target or 100% renewable energy target. That kind of made it out there in

25:07headlines but there was no definition. So that was the purpose of that report was really saying,

25:11okay, well, everybody says they want wealth to be 100% renewable. What does that mean? And so

25:17really in a nutshell, it's saying how much energy do we use and what's the ratio compared to how

25:24much of that is renewable, either generated by us or sourced by others, how green our grid is,

25:30how renewable our grid is. So it factors all that in and that's where this number is coming from,

25:36the 22.4%. So I want to be very clear, although we have a renewable energy target,

25:45it's not just we're going to go and pave the streets with solar panels. What we're doing is

25:49we're taking energy conservation first approach, let's right size our shop and then we can also do

25:56things like solar panels, upgrade our digestive gas, all those things so that we're balancing that out.

26:03We don't want to lose sight of conservation. Next slide please, Winnie. Yeah, go for a go.

26:14I'm just trying to process the data in the middle of the previous slide.

26:17Back Winnie, sorry for the question. Because we're now moving, moved on to talking about corporate

26:24tracking and the middle set of data talks about the total energy consumption per person.

26:31Yes. How does the corporate is the per person population? It is still but it's corporate

26:37tracking. Okay. Yeah. And so that's what you get to be looking at corporate like emissions produced

26:43or energy used by the city as opposed to the community. Yes. Okay. That's correct. Yes. So I'll

26:49make that clear. Yes. So the community boundaries, what we're looking at is geographic boundaries,

26:55the city of wealth. That's what communities so any any shop building business, bus, ambulance,

27:03even personal vehicle, all that's wrapped up in the community inventory. Corporate is what's owned

27:09by the city, the municipality, the city of wealth, our our bylaw vehicles or our ambulances again,

27:16fire trucks, this building, all those things. When we do a per capita, there is no real clean

27:24indicator on how we do this in terms of normalizing it. That's why we've used population as that same

27:31proxy. Like I said, as the city grows, then will the demand on our community center, the demand on

27:39our thing. But you'll notice we were at 5.98, right? In terms of tons per person,

27:46point 126, because we have less total amount of tons of CO2 within the corporate boundary,

27:53but still dividing by that same population number. That's why it's a fraction of what it is.

28:03I'm kind of skeptical on the utility of that division, particularly at this level,

28:07we drop it down to the house. Like look at my own say, Jesus, I'm out of the decimal points.

28:13Oh yeah, for sure. But but see, but what we're why we're doing that is not because I care about

28:20is it 1.2 or 0.126 or 0.129? What I do care about is what was it at 2018 and what is what are we as

28:29we get to 2030 compared to 2018 number, right? So then then are we hitting that 63% reduction per

28:36capita against our 2018 baseline or started the 2030? You get what I'm saying? It's just tracking

28:44progress, really is what we're saying. If I was evaluating the corporation, you know, I want to

28:53know how many miles a road, how many, do I not be looking at your cost per unit? Most of that population.

29:01And we would do that per different department. Yeah, for sure. But I mean, what relevance is

29:07how many kilometers are you saying when it's the big moment? I just had another question.

29:15Yes, sure. Dollars hadn't been popped up here. Just so I got an idea how many how many dollars

29:19we talked in terms of what this uses. Yeah. Our utility costs are in the range of about 10,

29:2810 million gets to about 13, 14 million. What do you start without drinking in the fuels?

29:34Oh, and a year. Yes. Yeah. I'm just here saying 10 in your infrastructure and three or four in

29:46transportation. 10 million days. Yes. In for sure. I'll call it well, say our electricity, natural gas

29:53bills and water bills is about 10 million. And that's a good point. So all this isn't just, you know,

30:05for us to feel good and to be, you know, climate angels or anything. It is. But what it's also

30:12doing is it's reducing again, when we say conservation first, it's reducing our exposure

30:17to increasing rates. And it is saving taxpayer dollar. And so I don't have the numbers off the

30:23top. But like, yeah, we've, we've, we've said millions of dollars in terms of utility costs

30:27for the corporation. I can't get that number for you though, in terms of what our savings was

30:35and avoided cause. I'm just saying some people that eyes gloss over when you're talking,

30:40he's got a number of dollars or eyes don't gloss over. They smart. That's the language.

30:49Okay, we'll go to the next if the questions are okay. Okay. Next slide, please, Wendy.

30:54So just really putting, you know, energy equals emissions. So when we're using all these things,

31:02it's looting. And from how we get it, you know, even if it's making those solar panels that

31:11that's emissions released, or even how we're burning electricity or our start burning fuels or

31:16whatnot, but even through the distribution. So we're having losses in the distribution of the

31:20pipes leaks or, you know, transmission loss with voltage dropped and all that stuff. And then down

31:25to where the user is. So as, as our buildings are spewing out energy and wasting energy as well,

31:31right? So the amount that we can, the amount of energy that we reduce and energy consumption

31:37we reduce, we are reducing our emissions. Fugitive emissions are slightly different, but from say

31:47like landfill and waste, but generally speaking, we can reduce all that stuff. That's what we're

31:51next slide, please. This is what I was referring to about the kind of the dirtiness factor. You can

31:59look at this is if I said, it's going to be a little tough to say, but if I took all these different

32:06energy fuel types, so electricity, natural gas, propane, diesel, gasoline, if we said, okay, if I

32:12could kind of put it in a box and it's that same unit of energy, I'll get the same amount of work

32:18or whatever out of this energy. If I then convert it to how dirty it is, that's what this

32:24paragraph is saying. So that same unit of gasoline, of energy from that gasoline is 261

32:33funky units. And then because we're Ontario, electricity is that much cleaner because a lot

32:40of it's generated through say, clean, not GHG, nuclear is considered ish, clean, not renewable

32:49by our states, but in as hydro, wind, solar. So compared to, well, I was in China, so compared

32:59to China, there's still a fair bit of coal that's going on there. There's a lot of

33:03fossil fuel energy generation, electricity generation. So there might be a little bit

33:10worse actually talking with folks in Saskatchewan. They have this problem about, you know,

33:16since there's still a lot of coal power plants, their number would be a lot higher.

33:20This number is creeping up though, because we're putting a lot of demand on our electricity grid.

33:26We're pushing our generation to have to meet that demand and we need a fuel that can

33:33burn quickly and generate electricity quickly and control it all quickly. So that's why there's

33:37a lot more dependence on our, there is relatively more dependence on natural gas as we're moving along,

33:43as well as the generation capacity of infrastructure is aging. So that's why there's

33:48all these moves about, you know, our nuclear, solar, wind and all that stuff. But the wind

33:55doesn't always blow. The sun doesn't always shine. So there are some things that have to be managed.

34:01We have to advocate for our province going to manage that properly, so that

34:07equivalency, we're not dirtying up our electricity grid too much as we're electrified.

34:13Next slide please. Are you all okay? On the community file, so now we're going to get into

34:21some of the option things that we do within our vehicle. We have programs like the Wolf

34:27Green Homes program, sort of our flagship program right now. So we have our zero-year-old

34:38program out to both residents to do energy retrofits in their home. There's also low income

34:43households grants that we're really pushing for as well. And that's to get people to change over

34:49to heat pumps, because that's one of the quickest and deepest JCE emissions reductions that people

34:55can do in their households. There's been some really good uptake. We are currently in a pause

34:59right now. We've been paused since June 23. The purpose of that was kind of our midterm,

35:08we're saying, hey, there's a lot of applications that we want to kind of work through. We wanted

35:13to really see if people were serious or they just sit on their applications, because there have been

35:17some there since for months and years. So that's what we took this cleanup to just kind of really see

35:23what is true and work through those applications. So we have a solid sense we're looking to

35:30telling folks as we're ramping up again October 1 is when we're going to reopen the program again

35:35and accept the applications. Are you just shut the program down on the 23rd of June until the 1st of October?

35:42We've paused new applications from coming into the program. However, we were still allowing people

35:48are still doing the projects. We're still issuing money out that we're in the program already.

35:53And you did that? Why? Were you run out of money?

35:56Well, no, we're being proactive in that. Before we run out of money, we want to know how much money we actually

36:02have. So the challenge with these programs is people come in,

36:07and then, okay, well, you got to give us more information. And if you want the money, you got to

36:12tell us what your project is and silence. So they're sitting on a spot and we can't give out that spot

36:20because they're sitting there. So that's the whole purpose of that pause. Well, one of the purposes

36:25of that pause is to really clean out, give people a good deadline and say, hey, you've got time to do

36:30this. If you're serious about it, tell us. If you're not, then you can come back to the program when

36:36you are. We probably have room for about 200 more, 100 to 200 more households for the loan

36:46for the grant. That's a harder nut to crack because access to information, access to time,

36:56confidence, comfort, trust, all of those things about getting two households to understand what a

37:04HUBUF is, to understand what the program is, to understand how to write off that paperwork, all

37:09those things. So although it's in the same program, there is a different piece in that we want to

37:15make sure that we're also hearing about marketing and outreach probably.

37:18And what's the threshold on low-income households for that? Because many people who are low-income

37:24owners wouldn't have the decision to empower to put in a HUBUF. So how is that differentiated?

37:31Are you targeting any renters? Are you targeting the landlords? How is that,

37:36Bridge? Because I would say I'm a low-income household and I own, but I might not meet that

37:44threshold that's super at risk of lots of other social economic factors.

37:56What we've done, so there are program constraints. It does have to go to the property owner.

38:05We can give it to renters in terms of the income level.

38:13It's pretty hard for programmers, but we work with our community investment group who do the

38:17formal bus pass, all that stuff. So it's in line with those. It is based off of an income,

38:23so we do get the income statements and based on how many people in the household.

38:28And then there is also what's called the current value of assessment of the house.

38:37So we want to make sure that people aren't house rich and cook in the books so that their income

38:44is looking low. So there is a threshold for that and that's it about. And you guys are probably

38:50going to drop your just $350,000 current value assessment. However, that's based on the impact

38:58model and the impact is the last assessment's been back in like 2016. So it's all information

39:05that's on the property tax rule. So that's the Welfare and Homes. The purpose again,

39:15looking at that one in particular, looking at how we activate residences within wealth

39:24and help with one of those bars, etc. to kind of drop down. And things like insulation, solar

39:30panels, windows, heat pumps, all those types of things. The ICS Thought Take is one where we're

39:37engaging industry and we're engaging commercial businesses as well as institutional businesses.

39:44We had our first session last year. We're gearing up for our next one this November.

39:50We're really inviting the folks like Lerimar, Gaili and Sleiman, Owens Corny,

39:57those guys that are coming to industrial. We had the county, we had the University of Welfare,

40:03Skyline, those folks were at the commercial. We're looking to broaden that and it's really

40:09a peer-to-peer approach. It's not the city saying, I'll do this. It's really like, hey man,

40:17we've got these same problems as you guys. Let's go and work this out. You're dealing with the FDs,

40:21we're dealing with the FDs. You're dealing with the heat pump rooftop unit, we're dealing with that.

40:25What are the challenges? What are the policies? How did we organize all those things?

40:30Really to help people and get that all started sharing too. We're going through that.

40:37The Welfi Go Challenge, that's actually something that's coming in in October. Again, we had one in

40:41April for Earth Month. It's really to get everybody in the community who played work, study, live.

40:49Welf, it's an online platform where people just give ideas on how we can reduce our emissions

40:55and what we can pledge to do, get folks kind of thinking about climate change.

41:02The Youth Climate Action Fund, we've had some previous roles of that through the funder Bloomberg,

41:08Flanthobees. There is, at least currently, there is no site for Bloomberg to do further

41:15roles. So we're looking at how we can take the program, re-jig it so that it works further.

41:21There were some issues with it, terms of timing and how to get students to really get something

41:27going. I'm amazed constantly at what they have been able to do. I would not have been able to do

41:32that at my age or when I was their age. But I think there was one about a bike share program

41:39through Bishop Mac. And then also getting them to think, well, okay, so we did it that one year.

41:45What about the next? And how are you going to pass it on to the others? Be that mentor and keep the

41:50program going. I'd say for all of us, we want to aim for consistency and growth. And then something

41:58new that we're doing too is we're working with researchers through the Gulf Labs and we're looking

42:02at the energy equity. And we're trying to address things like we're just talking about what is

42:09low income, what is inequity, what is even the term energy poverty. Is this affecting your lifestyle,

42:17your living? How much are you spending on energy, usage, in addition to all the other expenses that

42:23you have? How can we support and help people to participate because everybody is affected by

42:30climate change? So that's coming up. We're going to be doing some public engagements, talking with

42:38different entities, but also working groups, public. This is kind of a smattering of some of the

42:47community stuff. It's just really to give you a sense of some of the work that we do. And that,

42:52you know, as you can see later on in success meetings, you know, we'll be coming forward with

42:58a bunch of this stuff. It was also the background information too, which was the call the community

43:04called climate action. It mentions a few of these things, but again, that whole thinking of how

43:09we bring the community in joining this fight against climate change. Next slide, please.

43:19I'm going to switch over to the corporate side of stuff again. This is when we're looking at

43:24municipal operations. The city of Guelph is the first Canadian municipality to certify to the

43:32ISO 50,001 energy management system standard. Corporal wide. There have been some cases where

43:39municipalities have kind of done a facility here and there, but we're doing it corporate wide.

43:44Really at its core, it's not about energy. I think that's kind of the it is about energy, but

43:50really at its core is about organizational culture, organizational behavior. How do we get policies

43:56cemented in at the top? How do we get them to trickle down? How do we get people to move

44:01from the bottom up as well? Making sure that resources are being assigned properly, that we're

44:07trying to do data that we're setting our targets, we're reviewing our targets, we're reviewing our

44:11actions, making sure that we are making that progress so that we're coming back to those bars

44:15and things are going down in the direction that we want it to. Do you think that made a difference?

44:21ISO 50,001? Oh, yeah. But it's hard to put your finger on it because it's so nebulous.

44:30So prior to being with the City of Walth, I did energy engineering consulting. And I would hop

44:39around to, like my clients were correctional services Canada, the Greater Toronto Airports

44:49Authority, PepsiCo, and then even small, like Dupfmeyer bakeries, so smaller to big.

44:57I can go in there and I can go and say, hey, you know, you got to do an LED language,

45:02fits going to save you energy and all this other stuff, great. Save you money, great.

45:08What about next? What about if the money dries up? Where is that continuity, where is that business

45:13case? Where are the resources that are thinking, hey, this is how we're upgrading our operations?

45:19And that's where ISO 50,001 comes along because you have that organizational behavior.

45:23Because you have the policies of mentality that's meant it into it.

45:30The equivalent ISO 50,001 is ISO 9001. You've seen that go through the likes of Toyota and that whole

45:38Kaizen mentality and how that's trickle down to single tier, second tier, all those.

45:44And then quality management of our vehicles, they come along, right. It is structured around

45:50the exact same thing, saying, hey, here is that target, energy is one of our drivers.

45:55And so then we're going to make that, factor that into the business decisions that we make.

46:00So yes, I strongly believe in it. Next slide, please.

46:16So we have a few new construction projects. So we reside within facilities and energy management.

46:23Our parallel divisions are our facilities and construction as well as our corporate building

46:30maintenance. So looking at the South End Community Center, which is getting built down in South End,

46:37we're live in 2026, the Baker Library just up the road, both of those for zero carbon building

46:43design standards are those standards. Actually, it is the first zero carbon building design library.

46:52I mentioned about the Gold Transit and Fleet Services facility. So we're in the process of

46:57wrapping up design for that, looking to start construction next year. This will be the new hub

47:03for fleet maintenance as well as our secondary bus depot that will help us electrify.

47:11What I'm getting at here though is we saw about 40 to 50% that our facilities are contributing to

47:18the greenhouse gas footprint. So looking as we're doing our design for new construction,

47:24making sure that we're factoring in from things like envelope and heat pumps,

47:29capital systems, making sure that even though we've designed those mechanical systems that

47:33we're commissioning them properly, that they're operating as intended in design,

47:37factoring things like water conservation. We do a lot of what the South End is going to have pool,

47:42it's going to have a drink, two rinks actually. So there's a lot of water in such a way. We eat

47:47that water or we cool that water. So that's a lot of energy. Heat recovery. I skipped over that.

47:54That's actually one of the novel things about South End Community Center. We have

47:58two rinks that are spewing out waste heat. We've got a pool that's hungry for heat. So

48:04how can we bring that together? And that's really what drove the decisions and the design of that

48:09South End Community Center. Trying to move heat where we can so that we're using it, then overall,

48:16then having a more efficient building. So this is going to be one of the first,

48:23if not the first in Ontario, that's going to have a CO2 refrigeration plant. The reason why we did

48:29that is not because in the South End that it was more energy efficient. It's actually equally

48:32efficient if you look at seasonally or over a year against a typical ammonia plant.

48:39But because it uses high pressures, it also has higher temperatures, meaning higher quality of heat

48:44that we can recover and then use for treating water. So ideas like that.

48:51And then also, let's not forget that reduced body carbon aspect of it. So

48:56I've been talking a lot about operational carbon, but what we do with these zero carbon

49:01building designs is we're saying, well, how much energy are we using from a day-to-day basis once

49:06this is already right? But also, what are the materials that we're using? And can we use more

49:12or less intense materials that are putting that intact on a life cycle, G and stream

49:20perspective? So working with our folks is always a circular economy aspect of things.

49:26A perfect example is there's a lot of concrete that go into these buildings. Well, can we put it

49:30in our spec that we're saying a minimum recycled content for that concrete so that we're really

49:36reducing that embodied carbon perspective of building these buildings? Next slide, please.

49:49In addition to the new buildings, we're looking at our existing buildings.

49:53So that's where we're doing commissioning, recommissioning of our facilities, understanding,

49:58hey, we got lights, let's change the LED, put a VFT on our blowers and our pumps, looking at how we

50:04can upgrade our boilers to be more efficient or recover some heat or maybe even change it to a

50:09heat pump. So we're changing, doing that field switching. Similarly, with the HVAC side of

50:14things, the other side is, say, about refrigeration controls and building automations. So we're looking

50:17at how we're operating these pieces of equipment more efficiently. So we're tracking all that too

50:23and being smarter around that, the architecture that we're building around it.

50:28And then also looking at the building envelope. Those ones are a bit tougher because really

50:32peeling things back in a building, it's harder to get at. But where we get those opportunities,

50:36we're going to take it. So this is an image of one of our facilities on the water side of things.

50:41And it was a fantastic building, stripped and right down. And here's that chance to go really

50:47build up the envelope and make it less sticky. There's also a process equipment side of things.

50:54Our waste water treatment plant, we finished off about a $10 million project, who are looking at

51:00our duration floors. So we're kind of achieving the oxygen, a good level for the bugs to eat away

51:07all the organics in the waste water. But it's typically about 60 to 70% of the energy used

51:18for a waste water treatment plant. We put in a lot more smarts so that it's getting that right

51:24level of oxygen content within the water by upgrading the equipment to have sensors.

51:31Go to the next slide, please. See some eyes, glossing over. So I'm going to keep

51:39hammering through and get this through. I'm going to take another big one.

51:44Changing water from gas or diesel is huge, as we saw with those dirty energy bar graphs, right?

51:53You're seeing a few of these kind of hop around. We're learning a lot through this.

51:59We have about 84 buses in total for a fleet, 19 of them now are long-range 40-foot buses.

52:06We were the first to have a Nova long-range battery. Here's a look at our pilot charging

52:13that's going on at 170 Watts. And we've also just commissioned the first standard for sequential

52:23pedograph. I'm talking geeky stuff right now, but helping that certify in terms of the market and

52:29the research going on in this. Really in a nutshell, the buses are our largest fleet.

52:38It is our, if you grouped all of our buses, it's the largest polluter within our portfolio.

52:44That's why we're looking at that. So how do we make that more efficient?

52:48And we have to also keep in mind, it serves the public good. It's affordable transit.

52:55It's also helping other people within the resident or in Guelph to lower their emissions.

53:01So it's almost like we're taking on their emissions for them by driving us around.

53:06So that's why we're investing in those and looking to expand. That's why there was that

53:11Guelph Transitability Services facility. It's helping not keep saying the electric buses are

53:18secondary. We need that facility because it's back of house infrastructure needed so that we

53:24can expand the public transit. So we can keep giving public transit out there. We look to go

53:29beyond 84. We're hoping to get up to 130, 170 as the city grows in terms of our fleet, our bus

53:35for the inside. We have nowhere to put them. And guess what? If we're going to go and build this so

53:41that we can store buses, we might as well be able to charge them because that's the future.

53:45Regardless of what the outlets are telling you, they're repeal or pause of electric vehicle requirements.

53:57We are also making some good headway in terms of our light and medium battery left in vehicles.

54:02We're getting the bolts or plug-in hybrids. But we're being smarter about it. So we're seeing

54:07what's there, what is a good price point. We're also being cautious about this new technology

54:15or these bigger vehicles that aren't quite there. So that's what we've learned through the buses.

54:21We weren't the first to get an electric bus. Kind of followed other municipalities to see,

54:26okay, that's what they're doing. Okay, now it's ready. There's still a lot of learning,

54:30still a lot of growth. It's not system completely, but we were in a position to go into it.

54:36So we're not going to be doing like that battery electric vehicle back hose yet. It's not quite

54:41there. But Zambonis are. So we've got quite a few Zambonis and that's the way we go.

54:49It does the electrification of that. But it also improves the air quality as you're watching your

54:54kids figure skate. So think about all those side benefits. Charging infrastructure is really tough.

55:00It is also expensive or with electric utilities to do what we can with that.

55:07It's a lot more confident than just a wire. They're actually even looking at electric vehicle

55:13level two chargers up there. What's more important is logistics of where you're going to put the

55:17vehicle. And if it's going to hog up that spot, and once it kind of go off in the micromolemetean

55:23person charge, there's all of those things that you don't really start thinking about until you

55:26get into it. But we're moving through that as best we can. Yes, we were moving towards buying

55:3584 electric buses. We currently have 84 buses in our fleet. 19 of them now are are electric.

55:46We're looking to fully electrify our fleet as on a replacement basis. So each diesel bus has

55:53a lifecycle of 12 years thereabouts. We are seeing now that we can't refurbish them a little bit

56:00or so with affordability, with making sense of how our infrastructure is trying to keep pace with

56:07that. We are starting to refurbish a few of ours that are in good condition to give us a little

56:12bit more time. And then once this indeed goes on, then we're just going to be replacing a lot of

56:18the licensing replacement basis. Next slide please. I'm almost there again.

56:29That might be it actually. Okay, no. So we're doing a lot of solar. Really, this is more of a

56:35squeeze than I know I said for conservation first. But we are doing that. We're doing kind of

56:41overlapping parallel. It's really, so there's this there's this damage. So there's this unit that is,

56:50you know, there's a row that comes in. It's out of T junction. And this house is right at that T.

56:57And right facing the street is just their roof with all these solar panels. And this is back in

57:04like, I don't know, 2013 or 2014. It is god awful at late. But I totally respect this person.

57:14They're landlord. And they're squeezing as much as they can out of their asset and their facility.

57:19And to offset that electricity costs. And I don't know what the arrangement is with their tenants,

57:24but you know, they're taking that out. And hopefully that reduces that rate. But at the end of the day,

57:29it's good business sense. I'm biased. I have a lot of bias on my roof too. But I am biased.

57:36But the way that we see it within our facilities is, Hey, we've got these things. Let's utilize them

57:40as best as possible. We have done the scan of a lot of our facilities. We are growing quite a bit.

57:47When I started in 2016, we were leasing, but I'd say if we own them, we had about 90 kilowatts

57:56of solar capacity. Today we have 500 over close 498 kilowatts of solar generation.

58:06We just turned on the river run, expand that one to about 156 kilowatts. The larger

58:11arcades got on the road and so on. So we're looking at where we can on where it makes sense

58:19and it really is the office that our utility rates as well.

58:23And help the grid because things are left to find.

58:26Real volatial gas is another place we're looking at. And we're already almost doing this. So

58:31with wastewater, what we do is we take that sludge, go to mid digesters. We actually take

58:37that methane, bio methane, and we put it into a cogent unit. We use that energy to

58:44generate electricity and we recover that to keep those digesters warm.

58:48What renewable natural gas is taking that digester gas, scrubbing it even further to a grid

58:53level quality and then re-inject it to a grid or either using it as natural gas.

58:59In our organic waste, we crump the compost right now. There is potential, you know,

59:04that can also be digested. So we're exploring options for that as well.

59:10Next slide please.

59:16Other tactics. So yeah, I'm just saying about the data, looking at ways that we can motivate our

59:21staff as well doing the onboarding and communications all the way through. We're looking to work at that.

59:28But even the way that we do our projects, making sure that we're keeping that climate lens,

59:32well, so non-arrived project manager's things energy, I hope he did.

59:36But this is a way that we can touch base with them ahead of time and I'll give some of our

59:40expertise with other project managers. Next slide please. That's it in terms of what we do.

59:49I hope that gives a sense of what the energy and climate change team is.

59:57Did that work? I don't know. Is that like the other orientation?

1:00:00Oh, this is similar.

1:00:02Laura, look for it.

1:00:03You're covering a lot of detail. I appreciate it. A little bit of information over the look.

1:00:10Sorry. That's really great. Thank you. Any questions?

1:00:15Yeah, sorry. I had a question. I think you had given us a statistic earlier about like the

1:00:21emissions from, I can't remember it was all the facilities are just like the wastewater facilities.

1:00:27Is there currently, like I know there's kind of been talking the wastewater treatment industry

1:00:34as of late around nitrous oxide monitoring, which is like a pretty strong greenhouse gas,

1:00:41like more potent than like CO2. Is that something the city is currently monitoring or

1:00:49intends to monitor? Just so I'm wondering if like the full GHG emissions are being captured

1:00:54in the current like reporting? So when it comes to the fuels that we use, say the gasoline, diesel,

1:01:04or natural gas, we are factoring in and even for that sake electricity, we are factoring in things

1:01:11like socks and dogs. And so it's not just CO2. And we are applying this global warming potential

1:01:17factors on that, of course. When you say wastewater, I'm wondering if you're suggesting maybe the

1:01:27fugitive emissions from say an open peration basin. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Some of the nitrification

1:01:33processes that release some of that gas. Yeah. So we do not monitor that. And it is a very difficult

1:01:41thing to model. We do know, I mean, through whatever I think is the water, water,

1:01:50and consortia, and all that, I know that there's had been a few talks about that. We've been involved

1:01:54in some of these conversations to look at how we do move the sector towards that. We are currently

1:02:02not doing that. Okay. Yeah, just from other municipalities, I've heard that like, once they

1:02:07start looking at that and getting some data, I mean, it takes time and effort and money to get

1:02:12that data. But it's showing that it's contributing a lot more than anyone ever thought. So it's just

1:02:16something to think about. And so I do want to add a small comment too. So we are like, we're

1:02:23applying a textbook model on how we are calculating those fugitive emissions. So it would

1:02:32again, factor in a textbook number for things that would not, since it's not in addition to

1:02:37whatever, you know, methane emissions or something that are coming out of that. But again, yes, as you

1:02:41start getting into, you know, are we using LiDAR to go and measure that or, you know, whatever

1:02:47they use, we haven't caught that in the form. Thank you. Any other questions for Brad?

1:02:59So, thank you, Fred. Yeah, no, I said, thank you.

1:03:05So, now we're on to the committee items. And the first item is official plan update phase one.

1:03:12We're going to get a presentation from Lucas. Take it away, Lucas.

1:03:17Thanks very much. So good evening, everybody. So tonight, I'll just be presenting on Guelph's

1:03:23official plan update phase one. So for those of you who were here in July, you heard from Will

1:03:30a little bit on what an official plan is, but I'll just be giving a kind of a brief refresher

1:03:35on what an official plan is and the planning framework that's in place in Ontario,

1:03:39and dive in a little bit deeper to the specifics of this update that we're, that we'll be proposing.

1:03:46So for more information on the project or to follow updates, you can scan the QR code

1:03:52on the screen or what was included in the agenda package, or you can use the link

1:03:57there to follow the Have Your Say page. But we will be coming back to committee probably in

1:04:03November when we have the draft available. So this won't be the only time that this committee

1:04:08will have the opportunity to speak about this specific project. Next slide, please, Winnie.

1:04:16So yeah, just to start, a few planning 101 reminders. So an official plan is an important

1:04:22land use document. It is also a legal document as well. It has the effect of law, its municipal law.

1:04:29It provides a vision for growth and development within the city. So specifically, an official

1:04:35plan describes how land in a community can be used. It lays out where we live, work, and play,

1:04:41and how we move around and access things we need in our city. An official plan is prepared with the

1:04:46community to ensure that future planning and development will meet the specific needs and

1:04:51vision of the community. So an official plan must be prepared through a public process.

1:04:56This, these needs include things like housing, jobs, parks, the environment, infrastructure,

1:05:01and much more. And an official plan determines when, where, how, and in what order the city will grow.

1:05:08So we need an official plan for a few reasons. An official plan helps ensure that we can meet the

1:05:13needs of people's and businesses as wealth grows. This includes the planning of municipal services,

1:05:18transportation and community services. So as Brian mentioned, our current planning targets,

1:05:23a population target to 2051 is about 208,000 people. Our jobs target is about 116,000 people.

1:05:34An official plan also helps to communicate how land may be used now and in the future.

1:05:38An official plan also protects important features like our natural environment or our cultural

1:05:42heritage buildings and spaces. And finally, an official plan also helps inform our zoning bylaw.

1:05:48So our zoning bylaw sets more specific rules and standards for, for buildings and development in

1:05:53the city. This can include things like sizes of lots, types of permitted buildings, or even parking

1:05:59requirements. Next slide, please. So we're making changes to the official plan for, for a few reasons.

1:06:09If you're familiar with the planning world, I think I'm not second, I'm not sugarcoating it by

1:06:15saying that there's been a lot of changes recently, both to municipal planning work as well as

1:06:22rule changes from the province as well. A lot of the most significant focus of those changes have been

1:06:29housing related or housing enabling. We've also made changes as well. So starting back in 2022,

1:06:37City Council approved two important master plan documents, which are the 2022 transportation

1:06:43master plan update and the 2022 parks plan. So we want to integrate these plans into our official

1:06:50plan to reflect that new direction for transportation and parks policy in the city. Next, Official

1:06:56Plan Amendment 80, also known as OPA 80, was the city's growth management strategy to the year

1:07:022051. This was adopted by council back in July of 2022 and then was subsequently approved by the

1:07:09province with modifications on April 11th, 2023. Since that approval, some of those modifications

1:07:17were made, but then they were reversed and then they were partially approved again. I can provide

1:07:22a little bit more detail on that if folks are curious, but right now we're just looking to

1:07:27clarify and implement the policies that have been modified and are in force and effect as of today.

1:07:34There have also been several provincial legislative changes during the last number of years,

1:07:39so you may have heard of Bill 23, which made changes to the Ontario Heritage Act as well as

1:07:44a slew of other acts. The Ontario Heritage Act in particular governs municipal cultural heritage

1:07:51planning and municipal cultural heritage protection. In addition, on October 20th, 2024,

1:07:57so almost a year ago, a new provincial planning statement or what is often shortened to a PPS

1:08:03came into full force and effect. The provincial planning statement 2024 is a consolidation of

1:08:09the previous PPS 2020 as well as the growth plan for the greater Golden Horseshoe, sometimes just

1:08:15referred to as the growth plan. Decisions made by planning authorities must be consistent with this

1:08:21new provincial planning statement 2024 and so our official plan must be updated to reflect this new

1:08:27provincial planning document. So with all of these changes at different levels of government,

1:08:33really what we're looking for as part of this official plan update is to provide some certainty

1:08:39and clarity to the community on what policies are in place, what policies have been removed,

1:08:44and what policies are changing. The official plan update aims to align our official plan policies

1:08:51with aspects of the city's master plan documents as well as to ensure consistency with legislation

1:08:57and the new PPS. Next slide please Winnie. So to understand kind of the planning system,

1:09:09just giving a brief overview again here. So land use planning policy in Ontario is governed

1:09:16through a hierarchical system. So at the top of our planning system is provincial law. So the

1:09:21planning act in particular is one that some folks may be familiar with and that's set by the provincial

1:09:28government through legislation, so through bills that are passed. Legislation then informs the kind

1:09:34of the next tier, which is the now provincial planning statement. The provincial planning

1:09:39statement is a policy document issued under the authority of the planning act which guides land

1:09:44use planning in Ontario and gives you municipality specific policy direction for official plans.

1:09:51If you're ever comparing the difference between the planning act and the provincial planning

1:09:56statement, you can really see it in the way that it is written and the writing of the planning act

1:10:01in particular as you can expect is written like a legal document or like a law whereas the provincial

1:10:08planning statement is written much more like a policy document. Municipal official plans must

1:10:15have regard for both the provincial law and to be consistent with the provincial planning statement

1:10:20and those those two phrases regard for and consistent with are important. They are they have legal

1:10:28meaning behind them and they are tests in and of themselves so having regard for something is a

1:10:34lower test than being consistent with something just as in official plan policy we require

1:10:41development to conform to which is the highest test. Official plans may also be informed and

1:10:48include policy from municipal master plans or reference municipal master plans for further

1:10:53guiding policies on specific topics so things like transportation or parks. The official plan

1:10:59then helps shape those regulations with the zoning bylaw. The provisions in his zoning bylaw determine

1:11:04exactly what can and cannot be built on a property. Next slide please. So overall it's expected that

1:11:15our OP update will be done in multiple phases so this first phase here which we're calling laying the

1:11:21groundwork will take place over the remainder of 2025. This phase will include amendments to

1:11:27reflect changes to the planning act, the Ontario Heritage Act, the provincial planning statement

1:11:33and it will also include those amendments to correspond with the transportation and parks

1:11:37master plans and we'll look to improve some of our cultural heritage policies in particular.

1:11:43Phase two which will take place in 2026 that that will include further amendments for our

1:11:50employment policies specifically around permitted uses and how that is consistent with the provincial

1:11:57definition. I'll talk about that in particular a little bit later as well as some further

1:12:02recommendations from our transportation master plan update that we just we need a little bit of

1:12:06more time to to understand and to implement. Beyond that though future phases will commence in years

1:12:13to come and we may include some of the topics listed on the on the screen here but really in

1:12:18these kind of future phases the 2027 plus some of these are still being workshopped so don't hold

1:12:25us to any of any of these in particular some of them some of them may come off or some of them may

1:12:30move forward. Next slide please. So in our phase one we will be implementing some of the new provincial

1:12:42planning statement 2024 and aligning with recent changes to the planning act so this will include

1:12:48changes to policy and our definitions in our official plan as well. We'll also be including

1:12:54those updates from the transportation and parks master plan that enable specifically short term

1:12:59growth specifically for our transportation plan we'll talk about this in a little bit but really

1:13:05what we're looking for here is to update some of our road widening widths to align with the

1:13:11environmental assessments that are ongoing or seem to take place. I mentioned our cultural

1:13:17heritage policies we're taking a look at those as well in regards to changes to the Ontario Heritage

1:13:22Act and the provincial planning statement and really just to improve the clarity and

1:13:27readability of the cultural heritage section it's it's been a little bit of time since we've taken

1:13:31a deeper dive into this specific chapter so we want to take that opportunity to now.

1:13:38As well it'll also lay the groundwork for those future phases that I talked about and provide that

1:13:43really that base for identifying those areas that we may want to zero in on a little bit further

1:13:49into the future. So what's what we're not looking at in phase one is really large changes to where,

1:13:56how, or when, wealth grows. As I mentioned we just completed our growth management strategy

1:14:03through through official plan amendment 80 so we want to give that a little bit of opportunity to

1:14:08breathe and and to to be implemented before we look to kind of revisit those those growth projections

1:14:16in in like a serious manner. As well we're also not looking at changes that require some forms

1:14:23of additional study or may or may need to be supported by by some specific studies that either

1:14:28the city initiates or is initiated by a consultant. So this even includes changes from our master

1:14:35plans that may require more targeted community engagement and and are not needed to facilitate

1:14:40that short-term growth. We're also not looking to remove any of our cultural heritage protections,

1:14:46really it's just alignment with where the Ontario Heritage Act is going and we're also not looking at

1:14:52really creating a brand new official plan. We're we're happy right now with the one that we have,

1:14:57we're just looking to update it to to to the new reality that we're facing. So overall what that

1:15:03leaves us is phase one of our official plan update is fairly administrative in nature and again it's

1:15:09just that focus on alignment with provincial direction. Next slide please Winnie. So our timeline

1:15:19for phase one. So phase one has been ongoing for some time this kind of started way back in the

1:15:26spring but we've had two information sessions in July and upcoming in October I think actually the

1:15:33day after our October meeting we'll have a statutory public meeting to present the draft

1:15:39official plan amendment. In November that that draft will be made public and available on the

1:15:45city's have your say page for specific comments from the public. As I mentioned we'll also be coming

1:15:50back to this committee as well to to present that draft and to probably have more of a discussion as

1:15:56opposed to a presentation on the specific changes. In December staff will be preparing a comment and

1:16:02response matrix which will then be also included for council and in January we'll be hopefully having

1:16:09the decision meeting of council to decide on the official the final official plan amendment.

1:16:17Next slide Winnie. So I've kind of touched on a few of the theme areas already but really to

1:16:25to make some of these changes a little bit more digestible and understandable we've kind of come

1:16:28up with these these theme areas. So these are our cultural heritage, employment, environment,

1:16:34complete community, supporting growth, transportation, and parks. So we're spending the rest of the

1:16:39presentation just going through each of these themes one by one and just providing some specific

1:16:43examples of policies definitions or mapping that is proposed to change. Next slide. So we're updating

1:16:54our cultural heritage policies for a number of reasons so we're updating to conform to the

1:16:59Ontario Heritage Act specifically some of the recent changes introduced through Bill 23 and Bill

1:17:05200. The second is to be consistent with the new provincial planning statement especially related

1:17:10to any specifically defined terms and the usage of specific terminology related to cultural heritage

1:17:17and finally as I mentioned kind of taking that opportunity to revitalize and refresh some of

1:17:22the policies related to cultural heritage. Next slide please. So really you can kind of think

1:17:32of the changes to the Ontario Heritage Act through two different frameworks so we had the

1:17:37what I've called here on this slide is the current framework which is really the previous

1:17:41framework as well as the new framework. So under that previous framework there were kind of two

1:17:48tiers of protection for properties under the Ontario Heritage Act and specifically using the

1:17:55heritage register the municipal heritage register. So the heritage register is a record listing

1:18:02culturally or historically significant properties within a municipality. The first tier of properties

1:18:09in that heritage register were designated heritage properties and these are properties that are

1:18:14designated under a specific part of the Ontario Heritage Act typically either part four or part

1:18:20five. This designation confirms almost all of the protections available under the Ontario Heritage

1:18:26Act and would prevent things like demolition or significant alteration without a heritage permit.

1:18:32The second tier of heritage protections are listed but not designated properties. So unlike a

1:18:39designated property a 60-day notice period is required prior to demolition or development

1:18:46for a listed property so that council has the opportunity to move to designate that property

1:18:52if they wish. So under kind of that previous framework what we would do as municipalities

1:18:59is we'd maintain a large list of listed but not yet designated properties and then as specific

1:19:07development or demolition applications came up we would then move to designate as appropriate. So

1:19:14for example if staff determined that a listed property did contain cultural heritage value

1:19:20and there's specific criteria for determining that then we would move at that point in time. So

1:19:25it was a little bit more of a reactive approach. However what we're changing to now is properties

1:19:32that are not designated but just listed must be removed from the heritage register after two years

1:19:38and in addition if a property is removed from the heritage register it cannot be

1:19:42relisted for the following five years. Lastly if there's a development or demolition application

1:19:49for a property it may only be designated if it was already listed on the heritage register.

1:19:55So what this is kind of leading to is that we have to take a little bit more of a proactive

1:20:00approach and kind of face the reality that we may lose some of these properties especially through

1:20:07kind of this initial period of time where you know we've maintained this large list and coming

1:20:12up on January 1st 2027 we're going to lose all the properties that we have not designated in the

1:20:17next little bit in terms of the heritage protections. It's not a guarantee that those properties will

1:20:22be demolished or developed in that five-year period but it is kind of a reality that that we're

1:20:29facing especially our cultural heritage team in particular. So we're kind of in a little bit of

1:20:35a mad rush right now to designate as many properties as possible and get those before

1:20:40council. I think we've hit many records our cultural heritage team has in terms of the

1:20:45amount of properties that are being designated and being brought before council.

1:20:52So but it is a reality that we're kind of facing up against so we want to make sure that our official

1:20:56plan policy reflects this new framework. Next slide please Winnie. So to reflect

1:21:06kind of this change in framework we're looking to remove some of the policies that would now be

1:21:10out of date repeated or may no longer be relevant under the Ontario Heritage Act.

1:21:16We're also going to be updating the glossary which is a significant area of focus as well

1:21:20to reflect and implement not only the Ontario Heritage Act but also the PPS as well.

1:21:25And finally we're also updating policies to clarify when properties are listed and designated

1:21:31and the protections that those two different tiers confer to a property. Next slide please.

1:21:41So the next couple slides will go over a few of the examples. One of the areas in particular

1:21:46is that we're looking to clarify when our Heritage Advisory Committee which is another committee of

1:21:50council very similar to PWAC sometimes they're known as Heritage 12 when they need to be consulted.

1:21:57So different from the planning act the Ontario Heritage Act actually sets out specific legislative

1:22:03requirements for when the Heritage Advisory Committee must be consulted on a variety of

1:22:08heritage related topics. Currently in our official plan those engagement requirements

1:22:13are kind of spread throughout the chapter which can make tracking them down a little bit difficult.

1:22:18So on the left hand side of the slide is the current section that's kind of just related

1:22:23to Heritage 12 and as you can see it's fairly brief. So what we're proposing to do is to consolidate

1:22:29all of those engagement requirements into one larger policy section that will match not only

1:22:35the requirements in the Ontario Heritage Act but also the terms of reference for the Heritage

1:22:40Advisory Committee as well. Next slide please Winnie. So here's an example of one of the definitions

1:22:50that we're proposing to change. Words for removal have been bolded on the slide between the existing

1:22:57definition on the top and the proposed definition on the bottom. So the proposed definition is the

1:23:02same as the one used in the provincial planning statement. So this isn't this isn't a large change

1:23:08from the perspective of staff because it was kind of already like you already had the awareness that

1:23:16when a property may be designated under parts four or five but it's important that we get these

1:23:21technical definitions correct and most importantly that we're consistent with the the PPS 2024 and

1:23:28that and that we kind of understand the ramifications of these changes as well. Next slide please Winnie.

1:23:41So we're also proposing some new terms again to reflect those changes to the Ontario Heritage Act.

1:23:46So our current official plan doesn't have a term to describe those properties that are listed but

1:23:52not yet designated on the Heritage Register. So we are proposing a new term to kind of cover that

1:23:57off that would be candidate heritage property. So this term reflects the intent of the Ontario

1:24:03Heritage Act that if a property is listed the intent is for it to be designated in the next two

1:24:07years. So again just kind of reflecting that that new framework that we're under. Next slide Winnie.

1:24:21Employment. So as I mentioned the city of Guelph is planning towards achieving 116,000 jobs by the

1:24:27year 2051. To achieve this we need to ensure we have enough land for employment uses and employment

1:24:34areas in particular are defined by the province through the PPS. So the map on the right hand side

1:24:40of the screen identifies Guelph's current employment land in purple. So it includes areas like the

1:24:45northwest industrial area of the city, the Hanlon Creek Business Park, research land located along

1:24:51Stone Road, industrial land located close to York Road. So we are making changes to our employment

1:24:57policies and most importantly to definitions to be consistent with the new provincial planning

1:25:02statement. One of these policy changes that will have some effect for Guelph is to allow

1:25:09land to convert from employment uses to non-employment uses at any time provided a number of criteria

1:25:16are met. Previously this would not be allowed it would only be allowed during a municipal

1:25:22comprehensive review process which is basically an official plan review process but now this can

1:25:27happen at any time. These changes will have impacts on achieving our jobs target so we are

1:25:34making some changes to policy now but employment is one area that we will be studying further

1:25:40especially in phase two and potentially there will be more changes to come. Next slide Winnie.

1:25:49So as I mentioned here's that definition of employment area so on the left hand side is

1:25:55the current definition on the right hand side is the proposed so a few things to highlight

1:25:59with this change. So number one office uses which were previously permitted as a standalone use in

1:26:06an employment area would no longer be permitted as a standalone use. Number two institutional

1:26:12areas which can include things like places of worship are now explicitly not permitted in

1:26:18employment areas. Number three research and development in connection with manufacturing

1:26:24is now permitted use in all employment areas and ancillary uses are still permitted but they

1:26:31have to be in conjunction with a primary use. So in particular for Guelph the really the big one

1:26:37it seems like a small one but really the big one is office uses not being permitted. So if you can

1:26:42think of an area like the Hanlon Creek Business Park for example and there are lots of new offices

1:26:47that have just opened up there cooperators for example just opened up a new office there.

1:26:53Under this new definition provided by the province if we wanted that Hanlon Creek Business Park area

1:27:00to remain as an employment area we would not permit cooperators to open. They already have so

1:27:09they can still continue to operate so I know that there's someone here who works for cooperators

1:27:14so I'm not telling you guys you have to close. I'm not that's not what I'm saying but I'm just

1:27:21saying if you guys wanted to build that new office building under this new definition we wouldn't

1:27:26have been able to permit you now. Luckily you did so you guys got got in under but again so you

1:27:33can think of kind of that that's one example to kind of understand kind of the ramifications of

1:27:38the change being proposed here. Next slide please Winnie. Environment so for our environmental

1:27:48policies we're making some targeted changes to not only policies but definitions and objectives

1:27:53to be consistent with the new PPS. So this includes some administrative updates to storm water

1:27:58management policies federal and provincial ministry names and updating references to

1:28:04certain regulatory documents. One specific change that Brian's group actually helped he mentioned

1:28:09the kind of climate change lens and project chargers so this was one that Brian and I had a

1:28:13conversation with maybe six months ago or so is introducing new language on climate change

1:28:20considerations which we'll show in the next slide. Can you go to that Winnie? Yeah so the first

1:28:31example is a new policy and this is this would direct the city to incorporate climate change

1:28:36considerations when planning for and developing infrastructure which can include storm water

1:28:41management systems in public service facilities. The second change is to give examples of what

1:28:47impacts of a changing climate might be and we're specifically listing erosion and changes in water

1:28:52balance which are two important considerations for the city of Guelph. Much of this work as as Brian

1:28:59has went through is kind of already happening already where we're doing those that climate

1:29:03change consideration piece but now we have the opportunity to really formalize it in official

1:29:08plan policy with support with provincial policy language as well. Next slide please Winnie.

1:29:20Complete community so this is our catchall theme number of different changes being proposed here

1:29:25this includes recognizing and implementing all of the all of the components that make up a complete

1:29:29community including components that might be actually outside of the city's limits such as

1:29:34agricultural lands. Changes also look to better serve members that make up our larger community

1:29:40by including more inclusive language and including language that commits to early engagement with

1:29:45indigenous communities so just a brief summary of changes changing language to be consistent with

1:29:51the PPS on complete communities to be more inclusive of people of different ages and abilities

1:29:57including new policy references to the agri food network and the agricultural system as a whole

1:30:04and including a commitment to engage early with indigenous governments which aligns with the vision

1:30:09statement and the provincial planning statement as well as direction in the city's own indigenous

1:30:13engagement framework. Next slide please Winnie. So here's that definition of complete community

1:30:24which is which is actually a defined term so in our new definition we're adding language

1:30:29specifically around equitable access which you can see in the bold there and include references

1:30:34to complete communities as as inclusive changes proposed have been bolded as I mentioned. Next

1:30:41slide please. So next we have supporting growth so it is important that growth in our city is

1:30:49planned through an appropriate planning framework to establish this framework we use a variety of

1:30:55concepts terms to describe different areas of the city and what policies apply to those areas

1:31:01we have established that framework through official plan amendment 80 which as I mentioned

1:31:05was the city's growth management strategy to 2051 through this specific project so we're not proposing

1:31:11significant changes to official plan amendment 80 we are though removing concepts that are no

1:31:17longer used in provincial policy like urban growth center a term a term you might be familiar with

1:31:23which was a term previously used to describe the city of Guelphs downtown it's typically used to

1:31:27describe downtowns and other municipalities as well another term where we're moving is

1:31:32provincially significant employment zones so this for Guelphs described the Hanlon Creek business

1:31:38park area but was a term previously used by the province and designated by the province which has

1:31:43now been removed and another term we're removing is municipal comprehensive review which I mentioned

1:31:49earlier but that was a process to review our official plan against the growth plan which is a

1:31:55policy document that is no longer in force and effect so our our downtown shown in the map on

1:32:01the right hand side of the screen will continue to be identified as the city's protected major

1:32:06transit station area another term you you may be familiar with and that that term major transit

1:32:12station area still confers basically this the same policy designation as as urban growth center so

1:32:19that that's why we're broadly supportive of that change next slide Winnie so here here's another

1:32:28one of those definitions that we're proposing to update so for intensification in particular

1:32:34we're specifically proposing to include wording on underutilized shopping malls and plazas as

1:32:40areas for future intensification through op80 we already identified many of our shopping malls and

1:32:47plazas as areas for intensification and to allow for higher density of uses so this proposed definition

1:32:53is already consistent with what we were planning anyways so so we're happy to make the change here

1:32:58as well next slide Winnie transportation so the transportation master plan update completed in

1:33:082022 provided a future vision for what transportation would look like in the city and provide specific

1:33:14direction and recommendations to support growth and maintenance to meet this vision to integrate

1:33:20our TMP or transportation master plan into our official plan we're proposing some changes that

1:33:26will include new right-of-way widths for our two arterial roads like Gordon street Victoria road

1:33:31and Claire road to support future travel demand through environmental assessment studies or ea's

1:33:38arterial roads in the city are the large roads that function as the main spines and support

1:33:44substantial traffic unlike our local roads or collector roads which sustain smaller volumes

1:33:49of traffic as the city grows widening these roads may be required specifically to implement more

1:33:55multimodal forms of travel whether that's bikes or or wider sidewalks for pedestrians

1:34:02updating the right-of-way widths doesn't kickstart the that widening process right now

1:34:06but it does give the city the option to do so as needed and supported by that environmental

1:34:11assessment study particular in particular I do want to mention that we would only be able to

1:34:18take land for a road widening at the time that a neighboring property is developed so if that

1:34:24doesn't occur then the city doesn't have the means to to take that property outside of an

1:34:31expropriation process the city is also proposing to add a number of new locations for recommended

1:34:38intersection improvements as identified in the transportation master plan these will be included

1:34:44within existing table 5.1 of our official plan intersection improvements may be required to

1:34:50facilitate wider sidewalks street lights and more to support future travel demand and support

1:34:56protected intersection design transportation changes will also include updating the targets

1:35:02in our official plan to be consistent with the targets set in our transportation master plan

1:35:07as the city grows we're targeting more of our transportation needs to be made outside of a

1:35:11private vehicle and through active transportation or public transportation as well next slide Winnie

1:35:24so here's an example of one of those right-of-way widths to be adjusted in particular for Gordon

1:35:28Street from from a specific section of it currently there are a number of roads within the city that

1:35:34have certain sections as needing to be widened as I mentioned these are typically required as a

1:35:40condition for development application approval the proposed changes increase the number of meters

1:35:45that may be required to be included with the road widening dedication for selection of roads

1:35:51locations with proposed increases to road widening dedication include those sections of Gordon

1:35:55Street Victoria Road and Claire Road these roads have been identified in particular because of

1:36:01their proximity to strategic growth areas in the city of Guelph like the Guelph Innovation District

1:36:07or the Claremont B secondary plan areas which are at the east end and south end of the city

1:36:12respectively next slide Winnie so transportation is one where we're doing some some mapping

1:36:24related changes specifically to schedule five our road and rail network map changes include

1:36:31updates to identify what roads in Guelph are what such as what roads are our materials collectors

1:36:36are local roads so policies associated with that classification apply appropriately and changes also

1:36:42include updating roads that were previously only proposed but have now completed construction

1:36:47next slide so our last theme area is parks we have a number of master plans related to parks

1:36:58they includes our parks and recreation master plan the parks plan and the Guelph trails master plan

1:37:04so the recommendations within these master plans provide really that basis for some of the policy

1:37:09changes and mapping changes that we're proposing there are proposed changes to some of the park

1:37:14policies and descriptions of parks to align with these master plans some of these changes

1:37:20include updating park type descriptions to match the 2022 park plan in Guelph we have a number of

1:37:26different park types these include neighborhood parks community parks regional parks and urban

1:37:31squares and all of them have different descriptions and criteria that apply to them we want to provide

1:37:38better certainty on what land can also be accepted as parkland and when parkland dedication is

1:37:43required as part of a development application land that is not acceptable as parkland dedication

1:37:48has also been included again just to provide that level of clarity we're also updating that mapping

1:37:54to present a more accurate picture of the current parks and trails within the city next slide please

1:37:59Winnie so here's that that current description of a neighborhood park as well as what we're

1:38:10proposing to change it to so our new our new description would include more language to emphasize

1:38:16the intent of these parks and what they provide for the local community in particular we're

1:38:22including language on the service radius of these parks and updating those from 500 meters to 500 to

1:38:28800 meters this change is also included in the required criteria for neighborhood parks as well

1:38:35next slide please so parks also is getting some mapping updates as well specifically to schedule

1:38:47six the trail network so we're here we're updating trails that were previously proposed that have

1:38:52been constructed so some of those new trails are in eastview park or pollinator park if you're

1:38:57familiar with that area of the city some trail mapping has also been removed specifically trails

1:39:03that are located on city sidewalks we do we want to make we want to clarify where what counts as a

1:39:10trail and so if there isn't confusion sometimes what is a city sidewalk versus what is a trail so

1:39:15we're hoping to clarify that through this mapping update in the previous version of the schedule

1:39:21as well trails and parks were shown within the area of the clear multi-secondary plan

1:39:25trail and park mapping in this area has been removed because it's already included in the

1:39:29secondary plan mapping as well in the current schedule there are a number of symbols that show

1:39:35where trail related structures are needed such as staging areas canoe launches and nodes and trail

1:39:40gateways these have been removed as they're not they're not terms referenced within the official

1:39:45plan so they don't actually carry any specific policy intent and last slide please with me

1:39:57yeah so that's that's it for me concludes my presentation if you'd like more information

1:40:01happy to answer questions now as you have them or you can contact me really at any time just some

1:40:07key dates to kind of keep in mind for the future so that that presentation of the draft of the

1:40:11official plan amendment will be october 15 2025 after that the public including yourselves will

1:40:19be invited to provide additional comments and again we'll be probably coming back to this

1:40:23committee for that november committee meeting to to have more of a discussion on the draft OPA

1:40:29itself and then going to council for a final decision in january so yeah that that's it for

1:40:34me happy happy to discuss thank you lucas um did you have a question i had a really quick question

1:40:44from earlier on and then i had a really big picture question that i don't know if it's for you or for

1:40:49winnie well i might okay we'll start with the unherio heritage act question sure hesitate to

1:40:57ask because the number you're going to give me i don't have any frame of reference to interpret

1:41:01what it means but i'm still curious the list of properties uh i know i forget the

1:41:08fifth classification name um that are on the list that are not yet designated um how many is it

1:41:16roughly good good question i'd love me to pull up the and i can't help with the experience because

1:41:22it sounds like a very impactful change um essentially it's right here was it in the

1:41:29presentation i missed it no i i i didn't give an exact of course if you can't or is on any

1:41:35fingertips that's that's fine so our current municipal register i can't give you an exact

1:41:41number of properties but it is 86 pages long and each page has one two three four maybe i'd say about

1:41:4915 properties on each page so well well into the hundreds and well we're at it do you have any idea

1:41:59you said that they've kind of made record numbers of designations kind of going up to this deadline

1:42:04do you have any idea about kind of even a rough idea of how many designations uh yeah so i think

1:42:12last year i'd like to say they did something like 50 or or so um i heritage designations

1:42:22take a long time because basically you need to with specific criteria provided by the province

1:42:28you need to prove that a property is worthy of designation so you have to do a lot of history

1:42:36or a lot of research into the history of a specific property which includes a lot of archival research

1:42:41which as you can imagine takes a long a long time to do so they they are trying to find

1:42:47efficiencies where they can but this is a it's a long process to to put these together so

1:42:53yes it i i know when i say something like you know we probably have hundreds and then we're

1:42:58doing like 50 a year it seems like we're making a drop in the bucket but it's as impactful a drop

1:43:04as as we can right thank you you do yeah the big picture question i have specific questions

1:43:17don't know if now is the right time to ask this but given that you've noted that around

1:43:22november you may be coming back to us for feedback on the official plan amendment up

1:43:29updates the wrong language but i'm curious more from a perspective of the committee being a new

1:43:36committee member and a new committee um and not having participated in a committee like this before

1:43:41but in my old job commenting on plans like this routinely and working in a completely different

1:43:48space where we had criteria to define what was in the scope and outside scope of what we were

1:43:52aiming to achieve because of my former role and thinking about this committee is there a framework

1:43:58that is used within these committees typically to collect that feedback from us because just the

1:44:04range of updates you shared today are so broad and sweeping i'm just trying to understand if there's

1:44:09a way that we collect that feedback so it's effective and impactful and targeted i'm just

1:44:15thinking about how long that meeting could be and i'm not sure if this is a question for for

1:44:20someone to specific role of this committee for the comments into the

1:44:24yeah is there yeah i'm i'm trying to remember the training we had on the first meeting and like if

1:44:29there's a framework that we follow to or is the input just a conversation uh well there's no specific

1:44:36framework but we're giving an opportunity here to comment on a presentation there's also the

1:44:41documentation that's available on the website where we can get into the the meat of it details of it

1:44:48and then we will be getting a follow up presentation for Lucas when they're getting a little bit

1:44:52closer to the final version of the draft official plan amendment and that will be another opportunity

1:44:57to provide comments but and and you also are a member of the public so if you have other vehicles

1:45:04whereby you could provide provide your info um winning i don't know if you wanted to comment on that

1:45:09as well yeah thank you chair uh i just want to say it's like uh we are very open to uh just make

1:45:16your comment for our feedback here because we do not have a very i do not say there is a kind of

1:45:21like very standardized feedback framework for each committee because that they are doing not the same

1:45:27thing so we want some kind of flexibilities for each committee so uh you guys are very feel free to

1:45:34provide any feedback on any kind of presentations or even that you can just directly contact uh the

1:45:40staff liaison about what kind of um for some some are the kind of project or like the kind of like

1:45:48areas that you you guys would like to provide some feedback this is also this is also very

1:45:53very common for for example like transportation committees or like or heritage advisory committees

1:46:00because that they because their all time is very limited i would say so if you guys have any extra

1:46:06comments or feedback you're very welcome to contact the staff liaison for example brian for the

1:46:11climate change and also angie or lucas for planning so um yeah this is the our intention for advisory

1:46:18committees yeah no the the not looking for like a framework to be in place i was just checking that

1:46:25it's sort of the process is very organic but full and we'll just be a learning experience for being

1:46:30good yeah i think it's it's worthwhile noting though that you know the presentations we've covered

1:46:37a lot of material but the presentation there's still really just a snapshot so each of those

1:46:43keys sort of policy areas uh transportation heritage so on lucas provided examples you'll be

1:46:50sure that there's other changes that are being proposed that we have been presented with so

1:46:54it's important that we take the opportunity to get into sort of the full breath of of the changes

1:47:01at least to give an um have an opportunity to review them and if there's something that lucas

1:47:05didn't bring up that we think is important for this committee given our mandate and you know i

1:47:11think it should be put on the table so we have to make sure that we get the opportunity to see the

1:47:16full staff report and all the changes are being proposed in a draft so that we can you know get

1:47:23the full total picture and be able to address it if you feel that's necessary does that sound is that

1:47:29is that the process you were envisioning anyway or is this a little outside of what you might

1:47:34envision no i think i think you have it exact really like my goal for this particular presentation

1:47:42in in september here is to really provide you with like the scope of what we're what we're doing

1:47:47in this in this official plan update give you some of those examples again in terms of again

1:47:52just to give you a better idea of really what what we're looking at here and then you'll have that

1:47:57opportunity uh in in october when when we have the statutory public meeting as a member of the public

1:48:02and then as a member of this committee in november we'll have an opportunity to really sit sit through

1:48:07them and have have a discussion on all of the changes as as mike said these are just examples i

1:48:13think at last count the official plan amendment was something like 150 pages so it'll be it'll be

1:48:20quite a bit to to to dig through but again the the purpose of really what i wanted to bring today

1:48:27was just give give the committee some awareness that this project is going on but what the flavor

1:48:32of the update is really what's what's driving some of the changes that we're making just to help

1:48:38that those discussions in the future and to help the committee provide provide the comments where

1:48:44where they want to

1:48:46yeah i think we're you know today tonight we're simply in a position to receive the report

1:48:51get a sense of what's going on but i think the next go around um we should have specific resolution

1:48:56or motion put forward and and make some recommendations that feel that's necessary to do so

1:49:05any other questions or lucas i also just want to mention to like i know i just dropped like the

1:49:14150 page bomb but there will be like even before like the the agenda is released like that draft

1:49:22official plan amendment will be made public to to be quite honest with you it'll probably be made

1:49:26public at the end of september so before i come back to this committee formally in november you'll

1:49:32have more than a month to to really sink your teeth into it to review it in detail um it's presented

1:49:39in a table format so very similar to what you saw in the presentation with what the current policy

1:49:44is what we're proposing to change it as well as one of the last columns is a staff comment so you

1:49:49can get a little bit of a sense of what our explanation or reasoning for the changes or

1:49:54or why we're proposing the change so again it'll really give you something to to review and to

1:50:00and to have an opportunity to comment on as well not not just in the next you know a week time for

1:50:07for example you really have some more time to to review it and to look into it see no more ends

1:50:19thank you very much from your presentation lucas i'm looking forward to seeing you again thanks

1:50:24everyone plan back out center stage interesting segue so i am obviously not in planning and

1:50:40it's a bit of a planner as my colleague lucas so i'm going to be presenting something to you folks

1:50:46that's going to council in november and we don't have the subject or the material given to you prior

1:50:51to to kind of give you a sense of things i literally am giving you a preview of something i just received

1:50:57of three hours ago um i'm sensitive of time i don't know if there's something that we had to do

1:51:07or whatever i also felt i'm just kind of blathering on to like i know that this is about

1:51:12the safety and we can jump in here but at last time we met uh in person uh at least when i was here

1:51:20that came up and so we don't need a motion to go beyond eight o'clock we can continue on although

1:51:27you know i think we should be time sensitive in terms of the fact that we've been here a couple

1:51:31hours already almost so but not to put an extra pressure on your bride but uh we do before two

1:51:39presentation we need to serve the way you want to go it's like yeah i just want to add i just want

1:51:44to add that as long as we have column that we can carry on the meeting good point thank you thank you

1:51:52okay so i'm gonna i'm gonna pop something up on the screen um keep in mind like this is so

1:51:58and during the orientation and thank you for reading all the the subject matter stuff

1:52:05prior but just give me one second here what you're gonna tell us now you never saw before

1:52:15sorry see you over time what you're gonna present to us now we've never seen before no

1:52:21however there was something that uh so you guys would receive the uh community call the climate

1:52:27action so just kind of send the the context here i forget what it was i guess it was June

1:52:37or maybe even the orangey role i don't know earlier this year we presented a community call the climate

1:52:43action community the whole and to council again looking at probably what our boundaries are the

1:52:49Guelph community as a whole um but the corporation was upset about the number of sectors that we

1:52:55showed about business and residents and so the corporation being there's been a number that's

1:53:02been thrown out through previous information reports the municipal operations the corporate

1:53:09admissions make up like three percent of the the community stuff however there's a role for the city

1:53:16and the corporation to be accountable to the taxpayer and the public and to contribute and to

1:53:25be a leader in climate action that's the internet quote street teaching plan and that's the purpose

1:53:30of this corporate climate action plan it's one it's legislated by uh on ontario reg the

1:53:40keep changing the number 25 23 i think it is now it used to be the green energy act um

1:53:46then the electricity act and now it's something else but it really says that all broader public

1:53:50services i noticed the mush centers of municipal municipalities university schools hospitals have

1:53:56to report annually what their emissions are but also have to update their plans seven five years

1:54:02as to what they're doing for climate change so that's what this is it's meeting that update

1:54:08to what our plan is so what i have on the screen just giving you a sense of

1:54:15how we're going about this um is we want to publish a a public document or a digestible

1:54:23easily digestible document similar in the name of that community called the climate action

1:54:29that's spelling out what a corporate plan is this is kind of the example of the storyboard that i

1:54:35put together for our communications team and really just the co-intent of what it is this is

1:54:41the sneak preview this is the exact same thing um but in a prettier version however don't take it

1:54:48for final because this is like i'm seriously like literally just talking to heather about this prior

1:54:55to end of business day and i didn't even have this over at the conversation so um lots of

1:55:03some change is going to be happening from now until when this gets presented

1:55:08what i'm hoping to is really just wanted to share with you folks um give you a sense

1:55:14part of this organic conversation because it's corporate focused i don't know

1:55:21what the nature of the feedback is going to be it's a little different when it's kind of

1:55:25broad public but really like what are the questions that is triggering for you

1:55:30some of the things that help prepare where people's heads are at one more point

1:55:37a lot of the conversation that we had in the orientation really comes out

1:55:41in through this as well so as you're seeing kind of it it reminds the reader of you know

1:55:49what our targets are that are here's a link to our corporate strategic plan here's our goals

1:55:54we are a climate leader not yet enough it's also talking about what those impacts of climate

1:55:59change are but i am again skimming through this and it's not intentional like it's not intended

1:56:07to just kind of put the the blinders over your eyes there's a lot of text here and just want to be

1:56:11reshaped so um giving me just a kind of what the corporate climate action plan is you know how it's

1:56:20kind of investing in our assets and all those things but really giving the gist you'll see

1:56:24similar graphs that we were showing before kind of where we were on a community scale

1:56:30and then how that fits into what our corporate targets are and corporately what we're doing

1:56:35before we get into that it's kind of reminding folks this was something that was presented

1:56:40at that community called the climate action and staff reporting not necessarily in those glossy

1:56:44documents that we shared but a reminder to the reader of you know what what the role of

1:56:50the municipality is and where we have levels of direct control like our operations sorry

1:56:56buses or public transit all that stuff and we started having more indirect and limited control

1:57:02we get out into public owned carbon winners so to speak and and really the purpose of that though

1:57:13is and i always i kind of have to swap between hats you know when i'm talking about community

1:57:17climate changes you know what are the levers that we can pull that motivate people to reduce

1:57:21their emissions at their homes and at their businesses then i put my corporate hat on and say

1:57:25i have our leather i've got money that i put into this project where i can speak to these people

1:57:30or i can ask the CAO to slide never down on these folks to make that change right so it's again

1:57:36that relationship as to how we actually reduce emissions for those two different audiences

1:57:42it reminds folks of what our energy boundary is um i was saying you know it's looking at our

1:57:47buildings it's looking at our rolling stock our fleet vehicles it's looking at our process

1:57:51equipment waste water treatment plants salt waste or water distribution and then it's looking at how

1:57:57we our relationship is with the Ontario grid when it comes down to that hundred rv target

1:58:05these graphs again familiar um you know tracking progress finding the reader as to how we come along

1:58:12through our 2018 through to 2024 and how we're progressing or not progressing um and we'll let

1:58:18them take that away and then how we're taking that data and focusing in on these key focus areas

1:58:26so looking at policy items spoke about ISO 5001 and you know policies standards things like that

1:58:33how we're looking at our buildings will do construction and existing our process equipment

1:58:37so we store treatment plants and such our fleet vehicles and then also energy generation

1:58:46um and then as we come from the point this is where the the big part is

1:58:50so as we get from this focus areas that we start thinking about what will happen what are our

1:58:55actual measures to get down to where we have to get to in sets at 2030 that's 63 percent production

1:59:03emissions so as we were talking um about per capita and that you know that 0.126 or whatever

1:59:125.98 or whatever really what it boils down to from the corporation is by 2030 we need to

1:59:19lob off about 10 000 tons of carbon dioxide to hit that 2030 target that's 63 percent reduction

1:59:26in 2018 factoring in projections of relative wind up so 10 000 10 000 is our magic number okay

1:59:35so this is where we're saying you know looking at those focus areas let's start thinking about

1:59:40what we can do zoom in on this little bit more and well it seems to be and flying through this

1:59:50and honestly winging this because um so they're the different policies you know things like you

1:59:58know maintaining ISO 5001 it doesn't just run itself there are there are things that we have to

2:00:03keep maintaining management reviews policy or even stuff continuous improvement even things

2:00:09is like building temperature standards so we don't have that you know corporation so what are

2:00:15our set targets let's look at actually 55 which is a standard design standard for looking at temperatures

2:00:21how do we you know look at that conservation first and then even as I mentioned about you know the

2:00:27south end and bigger we're doing zero carbon building well there's no policy that's supporting that

2:00:32if it's decisions that were made so how do we get that into our organization to kind of forward on

2:00:36things like that um we're saying that we have to really get into building energy retrofits

2:00:43oh and I apologize sorry this table is really is really a grid of what the measures are in terms of

2:00:50what focus area lies into going across the columns the initiative specific initiative of it what the

2:00:57estimated capital investment is over the next 10 years and then the estimated annual greenhouse

2:01:04associated greenhouse gas emissions reduction within 25 to 2029 and 2030 to 2034 I would have

2:01:11started to say 2030 to 2034 there's a reason for that we're going to get to that um and so that's

2:01:19that's what the headers are in this table so looking at the standards you can see that we are

2:01:24you know achieving some some are just not they're just so hard to quantify so we're not putting anything

2:01:29in there but it's the right thing to do I have forest buildings you know we're really looking at

2:01:34as I mentioned about the stuff we do normally change order heat bumps slowly deleting retrofits

2:01:39that's all kind of rubed up into here and there is a capital line that's there so that's where

2:01:43that number comes from over the next 10 years and then the associated estimates of where we can get

2:01:49emissions it's it's not something to laugh at you know it's close to a thousand times over the next 10

2:01:54years we're getting into process equipment so we're looking at you know that potential of

2:02:01generating renewable natural gas with our organic waste and we're looking at our wastewater treatment

2:02:07plan how we can upgrade that's that cogent unit it's it's coming to the end of life and how we can

2:02:13bump it up to renewable natural gas hefty capital investment a lot of variables that can change things

2:02:23in terms of constructability where the market is feedstock availability

2:02:28legislate provincial legislation so again a roadmap that can change over time

2:02:35but looking at where the potential is in that 2030 to 2035 time frame so big chunks here

2:02:433 000 tons of carbon dioxide reduction there comparing that to that 10 000 that we have filled

2:02:49up off 2000 from our wastewater treatment and their size will chunk that's half uh oh together

2:02:59I just looked at that's half yeah it is and the short list perhaps and so that's that's the

2:03:05intention for this to go to council let's just say hey we are in the realm of possibility

2:03:10however it takes a lot of investment it takes a lot of effort takes a lot of work design and all

2:03:15these things in time well I look at that what I'm missing is the dollars saved I'll take that as

2:03:22feedback um it's tough to say uh you've got tons of it's not tough to say you got tons of carbon

2:03:31because you've radiated back the energy you're radiated back to dollars or you can't have the

2:03:38tons because the tons got to come from something you got to come from the energy yeah and some of

2:03:45these some of these there is a kind of an either or um so in particular so say if I if I

2:03:53hone in on this wastewater one so we do start generating natural gas and this those ones are

2:03:57totally different because it's not you may take some energy to do it but it's not energy you're

2:04:03saving because you're doing something different than you were doing before yeah yeah and also in

2:04:10particular with this too is whether or not we hold on to that credit or we're selling it

2:04:15anything that gets into some and even when I look at it that's something in it yeah it's just

2:04:20said to me well for you're going to pay for itself oh that that's tough when you come to process

2:04:29equipment it was two pieces yeah I like what's the ROI you don't know that um I'll be point blank

2:04:45because because in particular these ones well we do have an idea of these wastewater one but

2:04:52especially with your organic waste you know the market is changing so much and you know how that

2:04:57offsets tipping fees or do we do other options or you know things like that that gets really

2:05:03challenging in terms of ROI though your commentary is well placed because that's

2:05:12the natural reactions but that's how the council is going to react right yes it was present in the

2:05:19business case then I think it's really logical to tie it down too you know that's the dollar saved

2:05:24this is how we plan to do it yeah yeah and the intention though I I'll have to do it again

2:05:34it's like look you guys told the fact there's a crisis he told us that there's a target he pulled

2:05:41us and wanted me to climb over well here's our response and out yes he's going down to the finance

2:05:49department we will help them and we'll start thinking you know when we get to those points

2:05:53that I need to start sussing out in this case but we're answering I think that first question of

2:05:59can like here is that real impossibility to get to there can and and through at least our draft

2:06:05recommendations are to you know allow us to do that for their investigation and separation

2:06:11and again to that was I don't know that's all it feels like I'm dodging your questions and comments

2:06:19don't put that yeah it's kind of like that that kind of because it's such big scale and far out

2:06:25that we're forecasting I don't know if we're at that thing so I don't know why it's staged quite yet

2:06:31we're like a screenings of visibility to say like these are things we could explore

2:06:38or let's select the view to figure out what the business cases are instead boy down the avenue

2:06:46of all of them yeah so and sorry I'm just thinking as you're talking to Claire um

2:06:55I think so what's also happening oh sorry what's also being presented parallel with this so this

2:07:00is that kind of publicy type sound white type classic document the staff report is also going

2:07:06to help me with this and maybe that's what the conversation are at those measured levels where

2:07:11it's like a whole it's tough like I like I can't I can't be any more sharper than that to kind of

2:07:22say oh you know you reinvest a million bucks into doing building retrofits what's the ROI on that

2:07:30and and again I came from a place when I was doing consulting where I was doing them

2:07:35as this case it's for the likes of Pepsi go or what not right um but when you're at this kind of

2:07:41strategy planning you're like looking at hey you know you're just spattering a key pops and you're

2:07:45just spattering lighting all that stuff will keep bringing all together this is what it can do

2:07:51what are the rates going to be how much that capital cost going to be are the content like

2:07:56are we going to tear open a wall we have structural reinforcement which we are seeing those things and

2:08:01so that's where it is the confidence level in some of that it's it's not quite there at this point

2:08:08I'll be honest well then the confidence level on what you're projecting to save and

2:08:14bringing those gasses is also blackened confidence I disagree with that because you don't

2:08:20how do you remember the number well depending on what those things are in so in particular well

2:08:25let's take the high performance building 12 12.1 million 350 500 yeah okay so that one's that one's

2:08:33that one is that one's well it isn't straightforward so that's the thing like we're looking at

2:08:38we literally have about 150 sites that's right some of them being things like like I said like a

2:08:45park washroom where you know it's going to be lights maybe an exhaust band and then to a community

2:08:51center where we're looking at a whole light plan each different measure is going to likely have a

2:08:59different R01 and when you compare the same measure say an exhibition refrigeration outbreak versus a

2:09:06West End Community Center refrigeration outbreak they're going to be different based on age based

2:09:11on building condition all those things so yes you know as I'm saying you know what is the confidence

2:09:17in the greenhouse gas emissions reduction for that high performance building line because it's a

2:09:22it is a basket of goods and a very big basket of goods there is probably a plus minus on that

2:09:30but when we get to something like those big chunky ones like I said hey that's half through

2:09:34those two measures those ones are very defined preliminary reviews have gone through that

2:09:40point blank that's based off of and they're conservative numbers point blank that's well

2:09:44those aren't targeted to reduce energy those are just targeted to reduce greenhouse gases so they're

2:09:50it's not like you're going to reduce your bill if I don't you're reducing your output

2:09:55you're going to have to put input to make it work you're not going to so I can see that you have

2:10:01the difficulty there because there's no cost associated with buying energy you know you're

2:10:08generating greenhouse gases in a process otherwise I'm just saying for the rest of my

2:10:17case I can see why you could do it but those those are very difficult for the most

2:10:23simple moments yeah the process is good it's okay sorry but yeah they saw the wastewater

2:10:31you recovery yeah same thing sure well maybe I don't know I haven't seen what you're trying to

2:10:42look for home space yeah yeah and by any way so you know deep study has gone into a very large

2:10:49project a large measure like that and you know estimates of what capital costs are going to be

2:10:56in terms of operating costs and all the savings from that there is we haven't we have had that

2:11:03included in the preliminary study it isn't included in the study but again because it is a very focused

2:11:09and single measure that we can come with some confidence and what the say what the ROI is on

2:11:17something like that but when it gets to a bigger basket of goods then it gets very complicated I guess

2:11:22that's what I'm saying I don't know if that answers or helps the thing like I see that the gears turn

2:11:29in when they're worse they're seven I mean you can do what you're rich I just give you my feedback

2:11:34okay and and and I take that so in terms of where I'm where I'm kind of going with this you know the

2:11:39staff report as we're putting that together honing in on particular measures where we can

2:11:45provide tomorrow why business casey type information we'll look to go ahead and do that

2:11:50I might not even be returned on the fast because you know there's all kinds of

2:11:55just a simple payback yeah that's kind of double-edged sort too but yeah I mean people kind of hang

2:12:02their hats on numbers don't look at the broader context in the story behind them and if a simple

2:12:08payback is if we just look at money and you know it's 50 years to payback doesn't mean it's

2:12:12that's not bad if we're only focusing on money we start thinking about things like climate change

2:12:17or public service or investments and all of that so you're saving money public service climate change

2:12:27you know building community better service

2:12:31think advantage of everything have all the positives yeah yeah I just say it's a bit of a struggle to

2:12:37get that down to a number and so maybe it's it presents itself in commentary

2:12:43careful range of numbers okay I'll I'll I'll think about that but that you know it's good that we're

2:12:50thinking you know there are many levels or many perspectives as to how we value value I think

2:12:57this is what we're agreeing on okay um sorry I'll keep going down on this so we talked about

2:13:05transit electrification even looking at those mobility things but really then again that take

2:13:10away you know capital investment over time looking at what our replacement schedules are and where

2:13:16those emissions will hit again another sizable one through our transit electrification um the

2:13:23mobility bus it's something um but it's something that we have to do and should do um looking at

2:13:29our late duty vehicles as well as our waste packers which is another big vehicle something that we're

2:13:35kind of keeping an eye on um and then looking at the renewable energy generation so our facility

2:13:42solar I mentioned about that you know looking at some projections of where we can grow um

2:13:47but then also looking at a ratio landfill um and portion of that it's unusable land how we can

2:13:55integrate that into say some of the products work that's all another um we get to more than 10 000

2:14:07when we start bringing all that collectively um there is a dollar value not to scoff at as well

2:14:16that's associated with that um the other thing to keep in mind or as a reminder this column is from

2:14:222025 to 2029 maybe wrong by a year or so but gets us to that this line is essentially that 2030

2:14:30numbers so we're not hitting that 10 000 by 2030 um but there is a path to getting to that number by 2035

2:14:40and over just are these two numbers cumulative like is the 10 000 including the 1900 or okay so

2:14:49we are we are going well above like well above like keeping in mind that we get to zero yeah by 2050

2:14:57so it doesn't just stop at 2030 or 2035 should I'm living um yeah um it's like you're asking for an

2:15:08extension when you go to council and in a few months if you've got a homework assignment due by 2030

2:15:16you need to vibe your extension to meet your target and it's a laid out plan it's a strong plan

2:15:22and there's room for you to change and react to the volatility of the world around us

2:15:29so it's a good plan in the few minutes that you've had to look at it few minutes that we've had to look

2:15:35at it I think it's a strong plan yeah

2:15:43I know I and and and yes like it we're it's not the word but I mean like yes we do have a path to it

2:15:52and not many people or organizations over again say that um so I think that's good um also would

2:16:01flag with them yeah you know you can be hasty and screw things up too so we do want to take that time

2:16:08to kind of make meaningful change so that's also kind of the approach that I want an extension on

2:16:15the homework assignment I don't know if I'm gonna be able to make decisions about what's like a low

2:16:22angle fruit versus a more complicated pathway for some of the tools that you're going to do in

2:16:28terms of the purchase and to be honest the intention though too is to be to be transparent about that

2:16:35and that we are missing our 2030 target however one can just kind of be paralyzed you know not do

2:16:44anything or it's okay well how do we get to a solution base even though it's late let's still

2:16:49carry on the progress that's the the spirit of of this uh report right give me the fact that this

2:16:57eventually is you know public to council of such and you're not going to meet your target are you

2:17:02going to explain uh what it would cost what the implication would be can push hard on meeting

2:17:10the original target sorry just had to do this because I can't do it I apologize so what would

2:17:21the cost be if we yeah what would it take to get to the original target are you going to explain

2:17:28or touch on that at some point you know 2030 right oh I don't think we can I'll I'll be point blank

2:17:36you have to explain why yeah yeah no so yes there would be explanations as to why uh and points

2:17:43referrals to be point blank the other is you know technical limitations that can

2:17:51we have a lot of construction work that's going on that are going down with emissions

2:17:58that are gone but it has to do I mean we have to keep the city running so and we can't just have

2:18:05contractors climbing over each other doing things working in the same space necessarily so there are

2:18:10those things and and there is even market forces so we're seeing you with the buses right

2:18:16there were in delays after delay in terms of the single buses that's a charging infrastructure

2:18:20these things take time so we just those things would be more in the staff report maybe touched

2:18:25on a little bit in the glossy but would be definitely included thanks for further winning

2:18:34this is this is not the first time you've got a council

2:18:41so that's one one comment I have for my comments this looks too much like a community called the

2:18:46climate action I want to make some slight distinction let's show some linkages this is the first time

2:18:50that we're going with this version or this recognition of the corporate climate action

2:18:55that though so sorry that was a very long-winded way

2:19:02yes this is the first time that we are going with this with this target of how we're going

2:19:08to get 2030 in a very definitive sorry that's 63% reduction in a very definitive way

2:19:17roadmap definitive though maybe I think what just when I said there may be a time to buy full of

2:19:27keep the community plan out of it just go spray it on corporate and present these are the facts

2:19:34we we missed the vote but we have a plan it's just going to take five years longer

2:19:40yeah so sorry and if I'm sorry if I was saying you know first

2:19:46the community plan is done the community one is there it's already been endorsed by council

2:19:50all that stuff now it's saying here now we're switching hives council you guys are now the

2:19:55board of directors for the corporation this is where our corporate plan is to do it so

2:20:01so your point your designation with five thousand with the standard that they have this plan do you

2:20:08know what the score is yes so 50,001 sets the targets and I would say is kind of the the engine

2:20:17that keeps running on this but this is this is part of it and saying yes yeah we need to redefine

2:20:24that roadmap and that project so how are we getting to those those 2030 20 30 20 30

2:20:34okay um how's that through time

2:20:45you told us you were going to tell us what the significance of the 2034

2:20:49oh really it's just that yeah that we're going to ask okay that that's the date at which we could

2:20:55meet that 10,000 percent yeah okay yeah sorry look to hang in there um okay any additional

2:21:08questions for Brian if you have any similar to how we're saying another comment that when you show the

2:21:16the blue charts for the corporate there's no green line there's no indication of

2:21:24what the target is for fun and I'll definitely put that in so I mean so you don't have any idea

2:21:31but you're not going to get it you put that in the corporate or in the community one but not

2:21:39in the corporate yeah sorry and sorry I didn't show you the last little bit we're still messing

2:21:45around with these graphs but yeah this is taking those ambitions that's where we are

2:21:49looking at where we would be with those measures and then where we have to get to for

2:21:59that will make it clear um clearer than this definitely because this is still a great progress

2:22:04but to indicate where are you guys looking to get to yes we're aligned here yeah

2:22:10even if there's a line that what's 2030 and then aligned

2:22:14thank you thank you thank you oh thank you guys okay um I guess that draws to an end the

2:22:31presentations um I don't have any announcements are there any staff announcements um can we have a

2:22:41motion for adjournment motion to adjourn thanks for us is anyone else want a second then

2:22:48thank you I don't know we're gonna be able to find our way out like you're up

2:22:56let's take a chance let's take a stage please uh sorry uh sorry Mike uh can you can you uh let

2:23:05me know who is the seconder uh for the German oh clear clear oh clear okay thank you very much

2:23:12guys thank you I am terrible with names that's why we need names you're probably in places now

2:23:18yeah a little flat let's can't keep going thank you thank you very much thank you thank you that was

2:23:27really exciting to see actually it's very very inspiring right now you probably are gonna do