Natural Heritage Advisory Committee

0:19Okay, so as we have quorum, let's call us being ordered.

0:32Begin with the indigenous territorial acknowledgement. As we gather, let us take time to reflect on

0:40our privilege to live and work in wealth, the city built over rich indigenous histories.

0:45We are guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility and care for this land,

0:50people who live here today and the generations to come. Our actions today can move us towards

0:56reconciliation. We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

1:02This place we call wealth has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many people over

1:07time. But more specifically, the Atawanda Rock and the Hadrana Shani, this land is held as a treaty

1:16lands territory with Mississauga's the Credit First Nation. Both lives directly adjacent to the

1:23Holman track and is part of a long-established traditional hunting ground for the six nations

1:29of the Grand River. Many First Nations, many of it, many people who have come from across Turtle

1:36Island called wealth today. And on the next item is the disclosure of pecuniary interests and general

1:47nature thereof. Anybody have anything to declare? Seeing none, I want to approve a

1:59minutes from meeting of April 30th. Any errors, emissions or corrections to be addressed? Seeing

2:11none, can I get a motion to approve the minutes from last meeting? Polly. Polly. And second,

2:19Justine. All in favor? All right, great. Thank you. It's getting, we're getting screens coming in

2:35and out and we'll do our best to keep track of everyone. Hello there. Yeah, so who, so we have

2:46member, which members are here? So if I can maybe do a little roll call. See Justine, the others?

2:53Natasha, I'm here. Natasha. I'm Hart. I'm here.

3:02Hey, sorry you don't have your mic on and I didn't go to Kish. I believe it's Jamie, but I don't know

3:24for sure. Okay. Okay, so onto the formal part of the meeting then. First item is Guelph's One

3:35Water Plan and Josh, going to give us a presentation. Yes, good evening everyone. Can you hear me okay?

3:44Pretty good. Yep. All right, fantastic. Yes, my name is Josh McDonald. I am the project and

3:51performance specialist for the Environmental Services Compliance Programs and Performance Team.

3:58And I am representing working on the blueprint as we've named it, Guelph's One Water Plan.

4:07It is an integrated water management strategy and I am going to just bring up presentation here.

4:17Everybody see that okay? No, we're supposed to see it on the other screen. Hang on.

4:31Moment here. Thank you. Pardon. I'm walking in also over here on my laptop and it's not shared

4:44right now. Just give me one quick moment. Apologies. All right, there we are. Yes.

5:16Okay. Wonderful. Okay, as I said, this project is called the Blueprint, Guelph's One Water Plan.

5:24It is an integrated water management strategy. A little bit of background about

5:34the project. So as everybody I'm sure in this meeting knows that Guelph is the largest groundwater

5:41based community in Canada. Residents and city employees are very proud of this, proud of this.

5:47But our reliance on groundwater is and has been a limiting factor to our growth capabilities.

5:53Well, water conservation and efficiency are built into our approvals for our permits to take water.

5:58Other factors are at play right now, particularly recent population growth targets set out by

6:03the province of Ontario and the mayor and councilors directives to drive growth and meet those targets.

6:08So we need to find water capacity somewhere. Also water conservation and efficiency is just

6:14the right thing to do. It is the most cost effective and practically effective area to do so for water

6:22conservation. The city of Guelph is committed to optimizing the use of its existing water resources

6:30and infrastructure while ensuring water resilience, meaning deliverable of the corporate strategic plan.

6:37And to achieve this the city has begun the development of this integrated water management

6:43strategy which aims to guide the city in managing its water resources in a holistic manner.

6:49Considering various water sources, stakeholders and factors such as climate change, population

6:54growth and urbanization. So a little bit of background on the project. This iteration is the

7:02successor report to the 2016 water efficiency strategy. So that is the strategy that we're

7:08currently working off of and has been in effect for eight years by that count. And that was

7:16preceded by the 2009 water conservation efficiency strategy before. Strategies and master plans

7:22are typically on a five year cycle. However, it was delayed due to COVID and this strategy

7:29typically falls in occasions after the water supply master plan to align those targets and

7:36ensure that the goals of that water supply master plan are spoken to, addressed through this strategy.

7:46So this iteration we are adopting a one water approach. Trying to take

7:53various areas of city water departments, storm water, wastewater water and see where

8:05those areas, those departments can further integrate. There is already integration between

8:13the departments and a lot of interplay. But seeing where those programs where

8:17capital funding, that sort of thing can be allocated to best serve all of the needs.

8:28So taking an inclusive vision and values, engaging a lot of different stakeholders

8:34in the community from public to city staff to indigenous groups as well as PACS such as this

8:42one, industry leaders or interest groups I should say. And rebuilding strong partnerships for

8:52long term impact, engaging the business community, IC&I sectors as well to make sure we have a

9:01fulsome view of all the water users in our town. So I mentioned strategic alignment.

9:13This was proposed in the 2019 to 2023 strategic plan, sustaining our future and environment that

9:21sustains this building our future and working together for our future. And it was spelled out as

9:25a specific strategic item under environment, be a leader in climate action. And the specific item

9:33was to develop an integrated water management strategy. So going to get into a little bit about

9:44the trajectory of Guelph's water consumption. And I think that this is a probably a pretty water

9:53literate group. I think that's a safe assumption. So I won't dwell too too much on the explanation

10:00of the details. But on this slide, we have a leaders per capita per day

10:09chart for the years of 2006 to 2014. This was embedded in the 2016 water efficiency strategy.

10:19So what we're working off now, we do get updates. So when we're looking at water consumption,

10:27we're looking at kind of two different metrics. This that we're looking at now is leaders per

10:32capita per day. So this is how many leaders are is the average Guelph resident using every day

10:41for just what's their water use for the day. And the other one is meters cubed, which is the

10:50total volume of volumetric water supply that's needed to supply the city of Guelph and its

11:01residents with all these water needs on a daily basis. So here we see the trajectory

11:09and it looks great. So back in 2006, we had a combined leaders per capita per day of 224.

11:19And then less than 10 years later, that was down to 174 leaders per capita per day. So that means

11:27that we had people using on average 50 less leaders per water per day in a less than 10-year

11:37period, which is just a mathematical victory for the programming. And then we go to the next

11:49the next time period. So we see here that this this measures 2013 to 2022. And we see that that

12:02decrease really taper off. We are doing well compared to the rest of Canada, well also compared

12:11to the rest of Ontario. But we have somewhat plateaued just for a bit of a comparing contrast

12:18to the previous period. There is on average for a seven-year period, I think a five to seven

12:24leaders per capita per day reduction. And then from 2013 to 2022, we get a total of nine

12:36leaders per capita per day over a nine-year stretch. So it really it really plateaus.

12:43And over this period of time, there's a couple of world events that have taken place, 2019,

12:50looking pretty good still on the downward trajectory, and then jumps back up and kind of stays up there

12:55a little bit through that COVID period. I did get an update, sorry, this chart is from the

13:042023 Water Efficiency Strategy Report update. So we do have a shorter document that updates that

13:15on an annual basis. The next one is our similar pattern. This is our water production values,

13:26and that's that meters, meters cube per day. We can see in 2006, we have a population of

13:34roughly 115,000. And we need to produce about 51,000 per meters cube per day, beg your pardon.

13:43And then by 2014, we jump up to 100 and almost 130,000. And actually our average

13:50production per day has dropped. So we've increased by nearly 15,000 people and decreased our production

13:58by about 6,000 meters cube per day. So that, again, another mathematical victory for water

14:06conservation efficiency. It's just it's laid out pretty well there. So population growth of 8 to 9

14:11percent and then average consumption reduced by more than 11 percent. So in peak day, more than a

14:1714 percent reduction. And those peak days are really what we look for when we're talking water

14:25supply, because we need to make sure that every resident of Guelph, every business of Guelph,

14:32every user of our water system has water 365 and 247, right? Like that's it's non it's non-negotiable.

14:40And so we need to we need to make sure that that that peak day use is is able to keep up with our

14:48water production capabilities. So again, just a visual of our trending. The bottom the actual

14:59the blue line there at the bottom are actual average daily production, fairly,

15:06fairly stable across that board. You see kind of some of the ups and downs. Again,

15:10they're the influence of the COVID pandemic in 2020, but fairly stable across the board. And this is a

15:18projection that's an you know, an estimate of what our production would have needed to be

15:28without any without any water and efficiency. Program strategies, you know, education, that

15:38sort of thing in place. It's an estimate. It's not perfect, but but it would continue to increase

15:45if there was a do nothing without without our programming. So our current system,

15:52total sustainable capacity is assessed at just shy of 80,000 meters cube per day under normal

16:00conditions. And so we do have room, but we want to keep on keep on working at it. I did mention

16:12at the top, of course, we have population growth targets that are laid out for us. So

16:17we need to make sure that we have water capacity for all those all those new homes, all those new

16:23businesses that are going to come in with that growth. And we continue to be able to

16:30service our community with strong water production. So here we have some trends

16:40sharing some of the results of our water programs. Some of the

16:49more popular ones, a lot of uptake, little flush programs, let's toilet rebate.

16:54Blue build homes, that's blue built homes, I should say, that's constructing homes to a

17:02water efficiency standard, conservation efficiency standard, home visits and audits. Our staff visit

17:08folks at their home and show them ways that they could save water, you know, changing out fixtures,

17:13fixing a leak, that sort of thing. Multi residential audits, going into going into

17:20multi residential facilities or residences, I should say, and showing them where they could

17:28do some metering, where they could save some money, same thing with changing out fixtures,

17:33fixing leaks, that sort of thing. Residential sub water meeting, metering, metering type of

17:39paperwork. Water smart business, this is a big opportunity area where we incentivize businesses

17:46to implement water efficient practices, whether it's a procedural cooling tower, that sort of thing.

17:56Municipal facility upgrades, we want to make sure that we're walking the walk and doing upgrades on

18:01our own facilities and our own buildings, so their savings to be had there. And then the biggest

18:09saving opportunity or biggest realized savings over the 2017 to 2023 period was water loss

18:17management. That is water loss management equates to, you know, non revenue water, the water that is

18:26just lost to the system, whether it's from leaks, unmetered water, you know, unintentionally so,

18:33that sort of thing. And there's a natural amount of hydrant flushing, that type of stuff.

18:41There's a natural amount of water loss that happens in the system. And there's a ratio

18:52that's used where one is considered a perfect system with no water loss, I forget what the

19:00ratio is called. And 1.5 is considered the golden number between economy and water loss.

19:10And I believe back in 2017, we were closer to with three. So we had had a good amount of work to do.

19:16And as you can see, the water achieved average daily water savings over that period was about

19:251,755 meters cube per day. So that's actually where we saw the most savings. And on a recent update,

19:35that is holding strong and it's right in that optimal place. So these programs, some of them are

19:46a little bit more involved. Some of them are a little bit, keep coming back to the metaphor of

19:51just low hanging fruit. We have programs like the Royal Flush that is for a rebate for toilet

20:01change, changing a toilet, I should say. It's great incentivizes people to change from a,

20:08you know, 13 liter per flush toilet down to, you know, a four to five liter per flush toilet,

20:16which is huge savings. However, at this point in time, you have to really go out of your way to

20:24find a non low flush toilet. So while it's good that we incentivize these things, sometimes,

20:30you know, people think of it as maybe a foot in the door type of thing to try to stack other

20:36incentives, other savings on top of it. Part of this is just an example of perhaps a

20:44program that might be sunlit through this, through this strategy update.

20:53So yeah, that's just a bit of a review of them. So the other aspect that will tie to the toilet

21:01changes changeouts is low, or sorry, high efficiency appliances. Whereas there were,

21:11again, you have to go out of your way to find a low efficiency appliance at this point in time.

21:17So there are natural savings built into the, built into the market that we're taking into

21:23consideration for the future of what we incentivize and how we incentivize it.

21:32I should have mentioned at the top that we are working with Matrix Solutions.

21:36Now Montrose, I think, they are the primary consultants on the project.

21:41And we really have things moving with them now. So project goals, pretty simple, right off the top.

21:49Like I mentioned, it kind of already is to ensure safe, reliable water supply for

21:54well-scoring population every day, you know, all the time. People expect to turn on the tap

21:59and water comes out, right, has to be there. So another project goal is to help the city

22:05achieve its water reduction target of 3,683 meters per day, as stated in the Water Supply Master

22:12Plan, and in action of the 2024 to 2027 Corporate Strategic Plan. So that is the

22:19target that's been laid out. You know, the government has been thrown down, and those

22:25savings are what we're setting out to try to realize through this update in programming.

22:32So a key project goal is to establish a strategy to reduce water consumption as per the Water

22:37Supply Master Plan. And one water, for anyone who's unfamiliar with the term, with the concept,

22:45is defined by the Water Research Foundation as an integrated planning and implementation

22:51approach to manage finite water resources for long-term resilience and reliability,

22:57meeting both community and ecosystem. So we want to make sure that we're there for the community

23:07and there for the natural environment. So here is a chart from the Water Supply Master Plan

23:30scenarios. They've laid out a few options that we could potentially take with this strategy.

23:42So scenario one would be no further reductions, so ceasing non-provincially mandated water

23:49efficiency measures, a baseline scenario. It's not really anything that is ever going to be

23:55considered and there would be no savings associated with it, of course. Scenario two is a potential

24:01reduction through maintaining a level of programming similar to the current water

24:05conservation efficiency and demand manager program, so it would be keeping pat with what we're doing

24:12now. And you do see a fair bit of savings projected there, but the cost rising a little bit higher

24:21per meter cubed. Scenario three is a potential reduction through a focus on high water use

24:28customers. This is an interesting one. You see a significant amount of water savings for what's

24:36considered high water use. I don't know what the definition is exactly in this, as pertains to this,

24:45but there are programs already where we reach out to the 500 or so highest water users,

24:56which I have heard referred to as impossibly high levels of water users. So if we can help get some

25:06of those folks down with their water levels, there's a lot of savings to be had, even if it's just at

25:13that highest, highest tippy top, you know, 0.1 percent, take the thing, 0.5 percent of that

25:21high water user section. Scenario four is a potential reduction through a focus on the

25:27current level of programming and water reuse initiatives. The City of Wealth Find No Water

25:33Supply Master Plan update, a summary of potential reclaimed water supply capacity and cost associated

25:40with each scenario is included in table. And so scenario five is a blend of two to four. So really

25:54not taking a single one and looking at all of them together and coming up with a blended strategy

26:02to consider modifications of programming through the planning period of 2021 to 2025

26:08in response to successfully achieving the demand reductions under the different scenarios.

26:18So back to a little bit more of the project goals. Those are the ones I spoke to earlier,

26:24a little bit more of the hard, hard numbers of the meters cube that we want to reduce. We got some

26:32friends on the call I see. So we want to improve the resilience and reliability of water systems,

26:38as well as the health and well-being of people and ecosystems. We want to reduce the dependence on

26:44piped water systems, lower the expenses of water management, enhance the natural environment,

26:49and create a more living and sustainable community. We want to enhance the resilience,

26:56reliability of water systems to ensure a sustainable and secure water supply for the community,

27:03and coordinate water planning and implementation across different sectors and stakeholders

27:07promoting cooperation and alignment of efforts. Excuse me, sorry, one moment. So it involves the

27:15development of a comprehensive integrated water management system that encompasses all aspects

27:20of water management in the city of Guelph. It will address the interconnectivity of different water

27:25sources such as drinking water, rain water, surface water, storm water, groundwater, industrial water,

27:32agricultural water, and water reuse. So the spectrum comprehensive, we're trying to look

27:41both practical, continuing the effective programs that we have and want to continue.

27:48We'll also looking for bigger picture, a pie in the sky, some ideas that might seem a little bit

27:59lofty right now, but perhaps something that we can reach towards in the future by pulling

28:04our resources together. So it'll also consider the impacts of climate change, population growth,

28:11and urbanization on the water supply and demand, and will be developed through a process that includes

28:16a situational analysis, review of existing initiatives, stakeholder engagement, strategic

28:25direction, strategy development, and an implementation plan, as well as a stakeholder

28:31engagement summary. So the first aspect is our situational analysis, we're somewhere in the

28:41gooey middle between situational analysis and review of initiatives right now. They kind of

28:49blended into one another. So technical memo one is comprehensive assessment of the current

28:55states of water resources and management of the city, identifying gaps and opportunities, and water

29:01reduction. The review of initiatives is a thorough review of local, regional, provincial, national,

29:08and international initiatives and best practices in integrated water management. So this is kind

29:14of where we get into some interesting case study stuff, evaluation of the feasibility,

29:18effectiveness, and applicability of each initiative to the city. Memo three will be the strategic

29:26direction, the development of a clear vision, goals, objectives, and targets for the blueprint,

29:34aligned with the city's strategic priorities and water reduction targets, integration of DEI

29:39considerations at this phase as well. The implementation plans will be a detailed plan

29:44outlining the tasks, activities, and deliverables for each recommended action, along with roles,

29:49responsibilities, timelines, risks, and co-benefits. It includes a monitoring and evaluation framework.

29:59The engagement summary, this is a kind of a bit of an out of order one. We have this developed

30:04already, so this is a report summarizing the stakeholder engagement process, feedback received,

30:10and insights gained. It includes methods, tools, timelines, and outcomes of engagement activities.

30:16And in that, excuse me, in that engagement summary is outlined the different sorts of events that

30:22we're going to do, pop-up events for the community, staff engagement workshops, got a couple planned

30:29and innovation community, so ICNI, academics, that sort of thing, people that we're going to bring

30:38to the table for some big ideas, as well as some Indigenous inclusion efforts. We're hosting a

30:47waterlock where people will be having a waterlock hosted for us by a knowledge keeper towards the

30:54end of the project, as well as project notices that are going out shortly to our treaty partners,

31:01and project notices to anybody who's just interested in the project.

31:05And of course, the final deliverable will be a comprehensive report summarizing all of the

31:11deliverables in a clear and concise manner, which will include a second part in, an executive summary,

31:22detailed findings, recommendations, appendices, the works. Just outline some of the stuff in our

31:32engagement plan. So there it is sort of laid out there. On the left, we have engagement events

31:39and actions that we're planning to take. We've already had two staff workshops, one on October 31st,

31:48another on November 26th, so just last week, I believe, yes. And I think went well and a very

31:56engaged group of individuals and a lot to take away from that. And we will be launching shortly

32:03our project webpage, project notices, and communications campaigns, soliciting distribution

32:10lists, informing interested members of the community. I apologize.

32:28And online engagement with the social media aspect as well. Sorry about that, folks.

32:51Moving on to our situational analysis that we're running a little bit long here, apologize for that.

32:58So water supply alternatives. For water supply alternatives, we're looking at water efficiency,

33:04conservation, and demand management, which is what we're working on. There are groundwater sources

33:09inside and outside of the city that preexisting in new contaminated wells, other opportunities for

33:17groundwater wells that are being explored. Local surface water sources, such as Guelph Lake,

33:26that is a consideration that has to come into play as the groundwater within the city confines

33:32is coming to its maximum that we're able to take. And to limit community growth,

33:40like these are some options that could be put into place. Limit community growth,

33:45that's not really an option that we're being told. So that one's out and then do nothing. So

33:53some blend of these is what's going to happen. And it's most likely be at least the top two,

34:01if not the top three. So looking at some, these are some things that are taken into consideration

34:15for the project or by the consultants studying the project. So for our relationship to water

34:23supply, overall cost considerations, this is for wastewater specifically, I should say,

34:29constraints on water assimilation, includes the overall water supply capacity and planning,

34:34opportunities for reuse, you know, simple stuff to start off with. I believe that we're starting

34:40to do some some sewer flushing with wastewater, process wastewater, which is makes a lot more

34:48sense than doing it with with fresh clean drinking water. So so things like that, integrating that.

34:54Historical studies. So looking back on what is existed. So key studies guiding the frame

35:02key studies to guide the infrastructure upgrades and system performances.

35:06We are guided by the water and wastewater master plan. So upgrades to meet the growth and targets

35:11up to 2051. Biosolids master plan from 2020. So focusing on resource recovery,

35:19inflow and infiltration study. So that's been taken into consideration, sanitary flow monitoring

35:25that revealed significant rain derived in flow in older downtown sewers. So there's recalibration

35:32efforts underway. So you can see it's really a really an all hands on deck. And not a single silver

35:43bullet type of approach that needs to be taken to meet the water water demands, water conservation

35:50efficiency demands that we're setting out to achieve. Next, we have the stormwater management

35:59plan. So there are key recommendations from that. So new developments must retain run off from a

36:04five millimeter storm on site. Retrofits and 15 new stormwater management facilities are planned

36:13for existing infrastructure, water course restoration at 25 locations, sewer upgrades

36:19to prevent surcharge, innovations like infiltration and led policies, urban flood management,

36:26innovation strategies, monitoring and future actions. So established sub watershed based

36:32monitoring system for water quality and quantity. So impact of stormwater management on the drinking

36:42water supply, taking into into account water quality and pollution prevention. So road

36:48salts, chemicals, etc. low impact development. So trying to enhance stormwater infiltration

36:53groundwater recharge will reduce the contamination risks through volume control and filtration

37:00and source protection plan integration. So pulling in all that

37:06pulling in all that good work that aligns with the Grand River source protection to

37:09safeguard drinking water quality and reduce contamination risks.

37:15The influences of other studies on integrated water management strategy, we have the natural

37:20heritage action plan. So taking into account the focus of this group focuses on wealth natural

37:27wealth natural heritage system, including rivers, wetlands and woodlands, and promotes the policies

37:33for protecting water quality and biodiversity. So the past three slides, sorry, excuse me,

37:41natural assets inventory as well and the climate adaptation plan. So energy and and and and that

37:50sort of thing that we're taking into account impact on city infrastructure assets services.

37:56How do we manage climate change? So it's a whole whole bunch of stuff. The past three slides are

38:04all just areas that are being looked at to explore integration and consideration in the blueprint.

38:10As you can see, the scope can be very broad with the holistic one water approach.

38:16We're we're real keeners and we're real passionate people when it comes to these

38:21sorts of initiatives and programs. So we started off with these we started off the strategy saying,

38:27you know, one water is going to be all of these things in this strategy, like we're going to,

38:31you know, we're shooting for the moon, it's going to be everything, fire sale, like it's all of these

38:35things. You know, we're going to integrate everything. However, as we're getting into some

38:40of the work and then doing some of the research and the studying, we're understanding it, it can't

38:45be everything all at once. It's just not going to be feasible. We don't have the resources, we don't

38:51have the time, we don't have the money, that sort of thing. So this iteration is going to be first

38:56step and successive iterations will use the same approach and apply the lens and continue to expand

39:02what the strategy has started. And I shouldn't even say what the strategy has started. You know,

39:07the one water spirit has been applied to water conservation efficiency internally at

39:15at the city and in the community for quite some time. There's there's a lot of crossover between

39:22the programming and and the, you know, just the way that well thinks about water already.

39:29So there's there's always knock on effects other areas whenever whenever you're producing

39:34producing savings when it comes to water efficiency.

39:39Thank you pardon, I'm a little over time. I just wanted to thank you all for

39:47for giving me the time to speak about it. It's been a super interesting project to be a part of.

39:53And I'm really looking forward to to the final product and some of the the innovative things

40:00that we we get to pull out of it. I guess the ask for for this group would be

40:13would be how do you see this one one water plan integrating with something like natural heritage?

40:26Right. Well, thanks for that leading question, Josh. And appreciate the presentation very detailed.

40:35So we can sort of respond to your question, but there may be some points of clarification that

40:40some of them. Sure. Yeah, yeah. We'll get into into that. So any any questions for Josh at this time?

40:48Okay, well, I'm just interested in a little bit of clarification, I guess, myself.

41:01The relationship between production and consumption. Yes. So how do you

41:08how does one influence the other? Like, how do you control production based on demand? I guess,

41:14is that how it works? I'm not in in the weeds very much on on how production is is controlled,

41:27per se. I just I know our capacity right now is is in the we produce something like 60.

41:38I think it's 65,000 liters, or we have the capability to produce 65,000 liters per day.

41:45As far as the actual production and how that's controlled, that's done more on an operational

41:52level. There are peaks and valleys, you know, there's a there's a fairly strong correlation

41:59over the course of the year between, you know, summer months and winter months,

42:03summer months, use goes up with with sprinklers and that sort of thing.

42:09But as to the specific calibrations of I'm sorry, I can actually speak to that.

42:16In terms of the the users in the programs that are directed to them, so the the water smart

42:24business, for instance, is that sort of the biggest draw on the system?

42:28As in the like like IC and I are like industrial uses.

42:37They are definitely the higher individual users, you know, they're they're they're using,

42:44you know, multiple hundreds of meters cube per day, some of them.

42:49I will share that I was I was recently at a at an event, sort of a little forum that was put on

42:57by our energy and climate change team. And they hosted a whole bunch of folks from from the

43:05industrial sector. And it was it was super interesting. There are a lot of highly engaged

43:12folks for sure. But very much realizing that that their their opportunities are a lot of like.

43:23And for every energy and climate, sorry, for every energy opportunity, whether it was not

43:28everyone but darn near darn near everyone that they had knocked off, there was some sort of water

43:33element tied into it too. So for those industrial folks, there's there's obviously a

43:42there's a strong need to tie the dollars and cents of it all to implementing these changes, right?

43:49Most of them want to see something like a two year return on their investment.

43:55And it was interesting that a table with some folks where they kind of been looking at energy

44:02savings or water savings a little bit independently of each other, they hadn't quite tied them together

44:07yet in some ways, and they had a light bulb go off. And they kind of said, I think with these,

44:14like pulling these different components together, I can probably I can probably make the case that

44:22this is this is something that we should be doing can be doing, not just because it's, you know,

44:27the right thing to do from a responsible business perspective, but also from a from a dollars and

44:32cents of it all perspective. So there's there's a lot of opportunity in that in that area.

44:37Our programming team has seen a lot of success with the businesses that they engage and with the

44:45ones that get highly engaged. The sometimes the issue is just kind of getting our foot in the

44:53door with those folks, right? We can we can only push so hard. And there's a lot of opportunity

45:01there. But I think that's going to be a big next frontier to to this strategy. It's it's been a

45:07real eye opener the past few weeks, for sure. Yeah, that's good. And yeah, looking at table,

45:13I guess table one, there seems to be a lot of room for growth there in terms of increasing

45:18water efficiency within the ice. Yeah, definitely, definitely. It seems it seems like the late late

45:29there's a shift happening and people are being able to make more of a compelling argument to their

45:35to their leadership. And, you know, there's there's also some shifts in in leadership where,

45:44you know, it just is more more of a focus, right? And and people are seeing that

45:51that is good business. People want to do business with, you know, with people who are putting

45:56sustainability at the forefront of their, you know, their mission statements and that sort of thing.

46:02So it's it's it's a big frontier and it's a big opportunity and it's also going to be a big growth

46:07area, you know, into the future for actual use, right? So we need to we need to have them

46:16offsetting one another, you know, drive drive the use down while the

46:20the supply, you know, there's more more jobs and more facilities that are going to be coming online.

46:33I guess, oh, just go ahead, please.

46:41Um, yeah, hi, thank you for your presentation. Lots of lots of detail, as Mike said, so

46:50so that's great. I can see your enthusiasm for the project. So so that's that's always really great to see.

46:56Um, I have a couple of different questions.

47:01One is I didn't hear, but there was one point towards the end when you mentioned about

47:06solid and pollution and and coming into the water. But I'm curious, like how,

47:12given that you're taking a really big picture, like broad approach, how and whether you're engaging with,

47:19like, you know, the street, you know, salts, the the planning and roads department and how that

47:29integrates into the work you're doing, because it has a significant effect, of course, on the on the water.

47:37Yeah, for sure. So surface water. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the tie in for for that is is we do have

47:45it is managed through our source water protection plan and folks. And we do have a strong before I

47:54started on this project and in this role, I was working in a compliance role and actually did a

48:01little bit of work on on saltwater management for our for our solid waste facility, because there's

48:08a lot of asphalt out there. So our levels really spike and and got to speak with our operations

48:17manager at Public Works, who has they've come up with with a lot of great salt management,

48:25salt management tools and practices. They're doing a lot of training, a lot of a lot of good work to

48:32try to to minimize their salt use. But that's that's operationally, as far as

48:42water conservation efficiency from a strategic strategic direction. I don't know how much we've

48:50considered it yet. I mean, we do have source water protection plan, we're consulting it and

48:58having it in mind. But what maybe a question back at you, like, what would you

49:05like to see out of a strategy like this when it comes to to saltwater management?

49:15I don't know exactly what the answers or targets would be, but because you are bringing a big

49:20approach, I was curious whether you're integrating those other some of those other operational

49:24units into the into the thinking and planning into the conversation. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

49:31Yeah, it's for me personally, I'm actually talking about this earlier today, when I'm on a call

49:38with some of our stormwater program staff. And I have I have a request out with with some folks

49:46to learn a little bit more about that specific aspect, because it's it's a little bit

49:54underrepresented so far in our in our research and study on the on the strategy, for sure.

50:02What I know of it is more from institutional knowledge and operational

50:09than than actual, you know, nuts and bolts and in this strategy specifically.

50:16So your your first question was how do you how do we think this relates to the

50:21natural heritage action plan? And and I have a so in my in my work life, I'm director at the

50:29Arboretum and have have some very specific concerns and things that I'm bringing from

50:36from my from my work perspective. But we have the heritage forest, which is right along Victoria

50:45Road. And we've done a number of different different studies around that area. Most recently,

50:51some geography students have done whole lighter analysis of the whole area this semester looking at

50:57at the direction of water from the hill from across Victoria Road and down, you know,

51:04through across our whole site. So it was really interesting and insightful. We have some anecdotal

51:10evidence, not a clear evidence that when Victoria Road went in, that's one pond and then a wet ish

51:18areas in some of our forests have really dried up. And and that road is going to be expanded.

51:27So we are, you know, thinking about water and salt and various things coming off that road. How

51:32does the water? How does the road expansion affect the water table in that area? And we really have

51:38a spot where it absolutely has. And then there's a big development going

51:46it across Victoria Road, innovation, there's going to be some big stormwater management

51:51areas there. So we we're curious, and and the students were trying to model

51:59how much controlling the water that's running off there will affect nearby properties,

52:05specifically in our case, this had this heritage forest, but other other areas. So that's,

52:12I don't want to take up the time of the committee, but I would be glad to share with you some of

52:15the things that we've been thinking about, perhaps at another time, specifically there.

52:21But one of the questions I had in addition to stormwater management for new developments,

52:25is there any suggestion or idea that permeable surfaces might become a policy mandate in new

52:33developments, which would also help limit having to channel that water in other directions? I mean,

52:41because we have a huge area there that's natural earth and it is going to be developed. And and

52:47whether there's any policy ideas that have been done on a neighborhood scale.

52:54Right. I think I understand what you're saying. So I do know that in our road development, we

53:01do have a goal of of road permeability water permeability on the road.

53:10But the question would be for new development. Is it part of like the building standards,

53:14essentially, that they have to have these these permeable roads roadways? I can't answer that

53:22for you right off off the top of my head. That would be something I'd have to consult

53:28with our building folks. I would I would like to say that, you know, we're

53:36standardized across the board with our policies. But I can't I can't speak to it directly. I would

53:43love to take that away and get back to you on that one. Yeah, I mean, as as innovations around

53:48how we treat water that could be an interesting new innovation and how a new neighborhood

54:00is developed in relation to how the the water it's going to affect the water that's coming through

54:06there. Right. And like the not continuing not the right word, but just the alignment across

54:14across the across the organization for sure that our policies are reading the same because we

54:21presumably will will assume those roads at some point. And, you know, in 20 years when they need

54:26to be resurfaced, we'll put our own in but it should be that right from the get go. And and

54:32and building blue and building green is is the the best way to try to maintain what we have. Right.

54:38It's it's a lot harder to go go back and change things out than it is to to build it right the

54:45first time so to speak. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for your question. And I will take that a moment

54:54to say I welcome any feedback after this meeting as well. I'm sure that Ryan can share

55:05share my email with the group if anybody has any interest in being a part of the distribution list

55:11or interested in potentially participating in some of our some of our events we would love to

55:17have that's why I'm coming to these types of committee meetings is there's a lot of

55:24really strong brain trust in these these these meetings right so would love to have have input

55:29beyond just beyond just this presentation and takeaway. Another question. Has there been any

55:40discussion about geo again integrating about the city's approach to geothermal? So I know it's been

55:49very much precautionary principle to protect the groundwater but on the climate change adaptation

55:55it's another so I'm curious if there's any discussion in the committee or in other areas

56:00that you're from about that that balance whether that still is going to be a pretty hard line from

56:04the city. Yeah, so I I'm going to go back to that that climate workshop that I was at the other

56:12the other day I was sitting at a table one of the days with someone who is from the university of

56:16wealth and they want to look at some geothermal installations for for some of their facilities

56:27and where it was a hard no at one point they are they're not being told no flat out right out of

56:39the gate so I do I do understand that it is a tricky area when you're when you're balancing those two

56:48but I think that we're trying to maybe maybe be a little more open and find a balance I think it's

56:56probably still an uphill battle to to get that here in Guelph but maybe maybe headed in a in an

57:05exploratory type of direction between the between the parties. Thanks. Thank you. Question here

57:18Thank you. So I just had a question going back to the water reduction targets themselves.

57:24What was that number you would like in 3000 something?

57:32Is that based on like where did where did that come from is that based on looking at population

57:39growth and water quantity as is and you know like continuing to rely on groundwater quality

57:44quality or groundwater sources because you know you also mentioned sort of looking at alternative

57:51is that playing to that that target? Right so that I can't remember which year it is off of I

57:59think it's 2021 but that is a that is a reduction off of our off of our average day production that

58:11is that is the target so it's a fairly it's a fairly aggressive target and it is it's it's

58:22going to be it's going to be a challenge to reach yes 300 3683 meters per capita per day

58:31so it is a updated and modernized that by 20 sorry it's by 2051 we want to see a reduction of 3683

58:45meters cubed off of the average day produced in 2021. And is that so that you can

58:52paint like that existing groundwater quantity is that based on the fact that you're assuming that

58:58that's the reduction we need to be able to continue to 2051 with adequate quantity of groundwater?

59:06It's maintaining the the the room that we need for for growth and for and for water supply yes.

59:27Thank you. Just you don't take any of that very well. Sorry continue. Okay.

59:42Um yeah just a couple more points one just to follow up actually one is

59:48comment that just being made about salt management. It certainly is a concern and I

59:54I'm thinking back to my other life in our previous life I guess I should say

59:59where we were monitoring water quality and streams nearby parking lots and salt content

1:00:07some of these streams was higher than the ocean and when you think about ecosystem impacts that's

1:00:14fairly significant and you know aside from the city's operations and I mean roads primarily

1:00:22places like transit stations large commercial industrial parking lots

1:00:30there's a lot of salt use and one of the approaches that we took back back in the

1:00:37day was to try to reach out to the contractors who are the ones who are applying this salt here

1:00:44there and everywhere primarily concerned about their liability and not too concerned about the

1:00:49offsite impact and so you know there's a need for outreach education with these contractors

1:00:57to perhaps get them to modify their practices and do more on-site monitoring to try to reduce the

1:01:04quantity of salt that gets applied sometimes unnecessarily but it's an ongoing issue across

1:01:12across the landscape there's no question. Just the comment that you were the question you posed I

1:01:19guess right at the beginning Josh drew me right really quickly to the recommendations coming out

1:01:26of the stormwater management plan where we're talking about restoring 20 streams and 25 different

1:01:34locations and for me that's where we get really good integration it's almost a no-brainer in terms

1:01:41of the natural heritage strategy action plan and it's called for protection and restoration

1:01:48and doing some stream rehab work and from a hydrologic hydraulic point of view I assume

1:01:55it's going to be a primary focus on minimizing erosion reducing localized flooding and that type

1:02:01of thing but each and every one of these probably presents an opportunity for habitat restoration

1:02:07and ecosystem enhancements and I just wondered you know will you be considering the integration

1:02:14of those things as those projects move forward? Absolutely the stormwater management master

1:02:22plan is being taken into consideration as for that specific point I can't say that it's specifically

1:02:33come up in any of our research or you know overview but I can absolutely take that away as a

1:02:46piece that this committee would like to see considered. Well I just wondered so we have

1:03:04before us a recommended motion I don't know if all the members had an opportunity to read that

1:03:12says that the natural heritage advisory committee received the one water presentation

1:03:17that the feedback provided by natural advisory committee members be considered by staff

1:03:23terms of some key sort of take-homes if you will one I guess would be

1:03:32having a close look at the salt management within the city both private and public

1:03:41making sure that as projects take place on the ground that there's an integration between

1:03:47the water management strategy and the natural heritage action plan

1:03:53I don't know if there's any other key points that people think need to be addressed I don't

1:04:07know staff you probably picked up on those things anyway but do you move to like to go?

1:04:14Yeah maybe we can come together on some wording another the salt and then the kind of integration

1:04:22with the natural environment I think where there's some themes that shouldn't that's the way you come

1:04:26together on a little bit of wording for that we can add it to the motion if that's what the committee

1:04:30wanted yeah yeah so any other key points people will like to have addressed? Jesse?

1:04:40I don't know how to frame it exactly but my broader question is within you know just the

1:04:47development and the storm water management keeping them on site but having development projects

1:04:56having a broader look at the surface water flows beyond the specifics of the site and the

1:05:05storm water management the immediate storm water management of that site.

1:05:10So the green standards for surface water management and new developments is that green

1:05:17slash blue I guess in this case? I would say two things one is green slash blue immediately within

1:05:23the scope and then to a broader impact study beyond the immediate area I know there are

1:05:34standards about the buffers that have to get analyzed but water goes beyond those buffers too

1:05:41and so an awareness of that in on the broader regional or sub watershed almost scale.

1:05:50So just to clarify that just see you were looking at offsite impacts from

1:05:57new development on surface water and groundwater?

1:06:02Surface water specifically primarily okay and I missed maybe I didn't quite catch the first

1:06:09point that you made related to that was what Josh reiterated green blue standards pushing the

1:06:18batters and green blue standards within development policies around new development design standards.

1:06:30Okay any other sort of final comments recommendations? Okay Brian would you

1:06:39do you think you captured that? At least two of the three I kind of just the middle one on

1:06:46natural systems how that weren't in one but do you want me to take a stab at a couple here we

1:06:52can see if they if you capture three different ones but yeah so this would be that the committee

1:06:59considers or sorry the committee recommends considering salt management within public and

1:07:06private areas as a component of the one water strategy that you ensure integration between

1:07:14the blueprint one water strategy and the natural heritage action plan and storm water management

1:07:21master plan as programs and projects are undertaken. Consider offsite impacts of new

1:07:28developments related to surface water flows beyond the site specific requirements potentially at

1:07:34sub watershed scale and then you also mentioned the increase or I think the word used justine

1:07:43was push the or maximize maybe the blue green standards for a new development.

1:07:52Are the last two the same or the green blue build standards different than the

1:07:58larger water context? Is that two different? Okay one tends to be a bit more site specific the other

1:08:04one is sort of looking at Alaska you know or sub watershed scale. Yeah that's fun to confirm.

1:08:09Okay so do you want me to share the with you to share on the screen? Sure okay actually I have

1:08:19one more on my notes I would like to read it out if this is not the things that you want to put it

1:08:26as a motion just let us know okay so I heard that there is a need for average education with the

1:08:32contractor to get to modify to get to more the practices and do more try to reduce the

1:08:39quantity of resource against applied sometimes unnecessarily so is it the something that you

1:08:45wanted also wanted to put it in the motion just let us know. I don't think it has to be part of

1:08:51the motion. Oh yes sure. I do Jane address the salt management on private public lands which I

1:08:57think encapsulates that but I think that's the good background piece to explain when that's

1:09:02going to be to press. Okay so we're going to try to put that up on the screen. Is the easiest way

1:09:16for me to share with you. Okay okay I'll try to see the chat. Just give me a sec to make it

1:10:00full I think I spend the one for the second one you yeah stormwater management master plan should

1:11:03also be added so between the blueprint one water strategy comma east stormwater stormwater management

1:11:18master plan and I guess do we need to have spell though as well it's the natural

1:11:30heritage function plan. Yeah I think the program's a spell problem there sorry for some habit. I guess

1:11:51the first one refers to the city that probably doesn't need to be there because we have private

1:11:56oh yes thank you. Maybe just sort of before these four bullets just sort of more specifically

1:12:09golden. There should be salt management on private and public properties or lands. Yes right.

1:12:30It's open. Okay what does everybody think of that? Do you further edit from the card?

1:12:39No friend. I'm sorry the third bullet. Consider offsite impacts of new development surface water

1:12:51flows beyond site specific requirements and then be common potentially or such as out of

1:12:57subwater chance. Great yeah that's a good point. It could be such as might be better.

1:13:04Okay good such as yeah yeah sorry. It's much easier to watch someone else edit it thank you.

1:13:10And then for the last one I don't know I could use the terminology green blue and

1:13:16blue green I don't think I'm not sure if there's actual program that we're referencing.

1:13:20Is it blue or green is the correct order? No it should be it's blue and green so there are two

1:13:25separate ones and they probably capitalize. Yeah sure. And I think it's blue build I think

1:13:33technically right blue build and green design. Green. Blue. Blue. Build is the name of the program.

1:13:44Build. Yeah just like that. And green design. I think green design standards. I think just all

1:13:50we have in the right card not yet. No. It's blue build and green design standards for new

1:14:01developments right okay. Okay all right is everybody generally happy with the wording before we

1:14:08ask for a motion? Looks good. Okay so would somebody like to move the amended recommended

1:14:15motion? Please. All the way and seconded justine. All in favor? Jamie Gabriel. Can you hear me now?

1:14:31Yep. No okay oh yay. Gabriel's good and Jamie all right thumbs up. Okay.

1:14:45Okay. Oh Natasha sorry Natasha are you there?

1:14:55The path didn't tell me ahead of time that

1:14:59she had a kid at home that was sick so she might be late no no no so she might not be present at this moment.

1:15:06All right so I guess the motion, the amended motion passes. Thank you very much Josh for your

1:15:13detailed informative presentation and all the best moving forward with this massive integrated project.

1:15:21Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to present the two and thank you

1:15:25very much for your feedback and we'll take this back to the consultant and have it for consideration

1:15:33for the project. Thank you. Thanks Josh. Take care folks. Okay the next item on our agenda

1:15:41is something that's near and dear to all of us. That is the advisory committee's

1:15:48committees of council framework update and Dylan? Yes please. Thank you so much for having me. My

1:15:56name is Dylan McMahon. I'm the acting city clerk at the City of Guelph and this is the third time now

1:16:03that we've presented to the Natural Heritage Advisory Committee and all of our advisory committees

1:16:08on this project. It's also the last time that we'll be presenting so there's an opportunity here to

1:16:12discuss the proposal that we're bringing to council in March of next year. I do have a fairly brief

1:16:18presentation so I'll share my screen not nearly as detailed as Josh's was so I'll beg for your

1:16:23forgiveness but I'll have lots of time to be able to answer questions afterward.

1:16:30So just as a quick reminder we are nearing the end of this project when we report to council in March of

1:16:37next year. It will have been just over two years that we've been working on this project. This is

1:16:42phase two phase one culminated last year with council's approval of a governance framework for

1:16:47advisory committees. So that's for the first time a document at the city that says why we have advisory

1:16:53committees, how they should function, how they're evaluated, how they connect to the strategic plan,

1:16:59what type of topics make sense for an advisory committee, what type of topics might make sense

1:17:03for another form of community engagement. So once council approved that framework last year the next

1:17:09step for us was to review our current advisory committees against that framework and the resources

1:17:14that council has allocated to support our committees. We came earlier in the year to talk about a

1:17:20high level about the idea of changing mandates, expanding, merging, all of that kind of stuff.

1:17:26We got some feedback and now we're here to actually present to you that proposal. This is just an

1:17:32outline of the engagement that has gone into this project. On top of all the work that we've done

1:17:37with the committees and chairs and vice chairs, we did also hold small group sessions with members

1:17:42of council. Obviously these are advisory committees of council so we want to make sure we're giving

1:17:46them advice on topics where they're interested in receiving the advice and willing to generally

1:17:51consider it. That's an important piece. But without further ado, this is the list of proposed advisory

1:17:58committees of council that we will be pending feedback that we're collecting this fall,

1:18:03presenting to city council in March. So there is a shift from 14 committees that we have right now

1:18:09down to the seven committees that we've got displayed on screen. But I will note a couple of

1:18:14important things when we think about what is effectively a 50% reduction in the number of

1:18:19committees. The first is that right now we have a lot of committees, this one included that meets a

1:18:26small handful of times a year, two, three, and four times a year. Whereas the new framework

1:18:31envisions all of these committees meeting roughly monthly. We're never getting together if there are

1:18:35no agenda items. We're not doing it for the sake of it. But we anticipate at least eight to 10 meetings

1:18:40per year for all of these committees. So we don't think the number of committee meetings is likely

1:18:45to go down by nearly 50%. And then there is some nuance. So committee adjustment and property standards,

1:18:50for example, while they're being merged as far as the membership of the committee, or that's our

1:18:54proposal, they will still continue to meet separately to resolve the different issues that go before

1:18:59property standards and committee of adjustment. So there is some nuance throughout the list.

1:19:04But really, we're here today to talk about number three, and that's the proposed planning,

1:19:08environment, and water advisory committee. So our recommendation, and what we're looking for feedback

1:19:15from the committee on today, is to merge the planning, the water conservation and efficiency,

1:19:20the waste resource advisory committee and national heritage to form one committee, again,

1:19:25meeting roughly monthly 10 or so times a year. There's a few reasons we want to do this.

1:19:31The first is that there is a whole pillar in the city's strategic plan related to the environment,

1:19:36but it's not clearly addressed in a single committee. It's mandated to sort of spread

1:19:40between a couple of different committees. And that has a couple of impacts. One of the things I was

1:19:45reflecting on today as I've been going to all of these meetings this fall, I've seen Josh a number

1:19:50of times. So there is some efficiency to be gained by instead of having committees that are just

1:19:56meeting two or three times a year, we can bring those same people together and make it a little

1:20:01bit easier for someone like Josh to not give that presentation three or four times to get the natural

1:20:06heritage feedback, to get the water feedback, and so on. So we think it's important and it's

1:20:11definitely important to counsel to have that environmental focus included in at least one of

1:20:15the advisory committees. And perhaps even more importantly than that, all four of those committees

1:20:21when we came and talked in the spring were very open to the idea of expanding their mandate or

1:20:26merging their mandate with other committees. There was a general feeling that on the part of members,

1:20:32you had more to give and were interested in broadening the topic, but within the sort of confines

1:20:38of the narrower scope that you had right now, that wasn't necessarily possible. So we think this is a

1:20:43good way of giving the folks who are ultimately going to serve on this committee a good medium

1:20:50amount of subject matter that you can dig into because really what we want advisory committees

1:20:54to do, much like you just did, is to provide upstream policy advice to council and staff on

1:21:01issues of strategic importance. So it's moving away from the operational to where the strategic

1:21:07and upstream policy decisions connected to the STRAB plan, some of the different master plans,

1:21:11and that kind of thing that relate to these different topic areas. And we think planning,

1:21:15environment, and water is broad enough that we can combine all those mandates, keep the volume

1:21:20reasonable, so we're still looking for meetings to be in that two hour range, maybe a little bit

1:21:24longer, a little bit shorter sometimes. So it's not like you're going to have agendas with each of

1:21:29those items every single time, but throughout the course of the year, you will be able to touch on

1:21:33all aspects of those four committees as they exist right now, plus a little bit more when it

1:21:38comes to the environmental piece that's reflected in the STRAB plan. That's effectively the end

1:21:44of the presentation, but I'll just speak very quickly on what we are recommending to the committee,

1:21:49and that is that you recommend to council the creation of a planning, environment, and water

1:21:53advisory committee. Of course, any other advice or feedback you want to give us on the composition

1:21:59or terms of reference for that committee, you're more than welcome to. And then as far as next steps,

1:22:04we are bringing these recommendations to council in March of next year. This is committee, what you

1:22:09would know, maybe the seven or eight of the 14 that we've gone to. So we've got another month,

1:22:14there, month and a half to get through meetings with all of the committees. So there'll be a

1:22:18little bit of quiet after this. And then certainly once we get closer to that council date, you'll

1:22:22be receiving emails from us, sharing reports, talking to chairs and vice-chairs to see if they

1:22:27want to present to city council and that kind of thing. But today what we're looking to do is know,

1:22:33is this a recommendation that the natural heritage advisory committee supports? And if not, that's

1:22:38okay, no problem. What alternative or what suggestions would you have for a different

1:22:44recommendation to council? Thank you very much, Delvin. Any questions, comments, concerns from

1:22:55the committee members? Just, yeah, just high level. I think that this really does encapsulate

1:23:04everything that we said at the last meeting in terms of the topics that we've got natural heritage

1:23:09should have more of a, more of a say in it. I think we saw that too with the water efficiency

1:23:15planning. You know, there's so much that goes on to a beyond just the natural heritage. I think it'll

1:23:21be a good blend of disciplines in that committee. Anyone else have any comments?

1:23:36I have a couple of questions. One is climate change matters, whether they be issues, programs,

1:23:44policies. Do you see those coming to this integrated committee? I think the short answer is yes,

1:23:54when I consider how the budget meeting went at council last week. So this is a new,

1:24:01is a new budget process now, new legislation governing the creation of the budget by the

1:24:06mayor versus city council. But at the end of the day, although it wasn't in the proposed budget,

1:24:11council did add in a significant amount of funding related to the city's 100% renewable energy goals.

1:24:17So I think given that council has made that priority, there's room in these terms of reference to,

1:24:22to include that. Now that was just last week. So exactly what that looks like and how we get it

1:24:27in. I'm not sure. But I see those climate change goals, hundred re and that kind of thing from

1:24:32council as that's strategic directions and it would make sense that those goals are included in

1:24:36these terms of reference to as long as they're being prioritized by council. Just for insight,

1:24:43as far as how we're drafting these terms of reference, what we're really trying to make

1:24:46sure is that we're giving committees mandates that they can reasonably affect change in. So where

1:24:51there are topics where council has said, you know, that's not a priority for us, then that's not the

1:24:55type of thing we look to land in the terms of reference, but where they've gone out of their way

1:24:58to add money into a budget on a topic. I think that sends the opposite signal and we've looked

1:25:03to include it. Very good. Question about sort of what I see is procedural challenges with this

1:25:12committee. So the planning aspects are statutory requirement for the city and the others are

1:25:19as referred to as discretionary, I think. How do you see that playing out sort of in an agenda?

1:25:27We're going to have maybe a variety of different reports, some statutory, some discretionary,

1:25:33having a motion to handle the approval and recommended changes or input to each or both of

1:25:40them. How do you see that playing out? Yeah. So the planning advisory committee is an interesting one.

1:25:49I'm going to be careful because I've got planners in the room and I hope I can get this right, but

1:25:54effectively it is statutory that we have a planning advisory committee. So the planning

1:25:58act says we have to have one. It's the only statutory committee where the province hasn't

1:26:04given us any indication as to what ought to go with that planning advisory committee. So if I

1:26:09look at the other statutory committees, like accessibility, for example, there's a very specific

1:26:13list. You must have an accessibility advisory committee and it must do the following four or

1:26:18five things. I'm sure if you wanted to do more, go ahead, but at a minimum, these things. Planning

1:26:24doesn't have that. So they've left it up to the municipality. So in reality, it is statutory

1:26:30because we put it in the terms of reference, but I don't think on a day-to-day meeting-to-meeting

1:26:35basis, you would recognize much difference between the items. They're very similar in nature and I

1:26:41don't think there'd be a conflict between the discretionary versus the statutory components

1:26:48because in effect City Council has sent all of them as statutory when they've really

1:26:52termed the reference for the whole committee. That's making sense. Just a follow-up on that.

1:26:59Would you be able to, like, just once does the planning committee look like right now at the

1:27:04City of Guelph? Because I've, like, if I look at a scan of other municipalities, it is different

1:27:10everywhere you go. So, like, when I went to the City of Brantford, for example, our planning committee

1:27:14was, that was our statutory meeting, right? The committee was there for the, you know, the official

1:27:21statutory. Like the statutory public meeting, you know. Exactly. So they were one and the same.

1:27:26Yeah, so that's quite different than us. We do our statutory public meetings, which would be like

1:27:31if someone applies for a rezoning, you have that statutory public meeting. We do those at

1:27:34council and council chambers. Just pulling up the terms of reference for the planning advisory

1:27:39committee. The mandate right now is to provide City Council with advice and assistance on major

1:27:44policy planning initiatives within the City of Guelph, specifically provincial plan and policy

1:27:49conformity, official plan reviews, updates, community plans, studies, and city-initiated

1:27:54official plan amendments and zoning bylaw amendments with city-wide impacts. So that would be the

1:28:00starting place for that planning mandate in the proposed new committee as well. Okay. But I think

1:28:07largely many of those are the types of things that are going to impact environment and natural

1:28:13heritage at the same time. And that's why we think that there is that sort of nice interplay.

1:28:19But it will be broader. Like there's no doubt there's going to be different types of stuff

1:28:23coming forward to these committees. The mandates are all broader. You're going to see staff from

1:28:27more departments supporting the committees. I think in the case of this committee, obviously folks

1:28:32from planning, but also from environmental services, also potentially facilities because

1:28:37they're the ones who largely handle the climate change portfolio as it relates to city facilities,

1:28:42at least. So yeah, it will be broader and it will be more work for staff and the committee

1:28:50as we get into the new system to make sure that we're striking the right balance, that we've got

1:28:54the right volume of reports that the committee's meeting regularly, but not that we're meeting for

1:28:59hours every month. It's going to take a little bit of time, I think, for us to figure that out.

1:29:04But I think there will definitely be efficiency in the number of times that we're bringing the

1:29:11same plan to multiple committees and hopefully a chance to bring together really good diverse groups

1:29:16to provide feedback that is broader than what we're getting right now.

1:29:27If there have been any assessment of the types of people who would be able to commit

1:29:38to volunteering for a more demanding, time-wise, more frequent and more demanding committee,

1:29:45have you thought about what that would look like? Who would be the members of your committee?

1:29:52Would that change? And what sort of time of day, I know some of the committees maybe meet during

1:29:56the day and some in the evening, have you talked about that? Another, it's kind of a structural

1:30:01procedural question that might come. Yes, so yeah, we've thought about it a lot. So the idea of meeting

1:30:07roughly monthly was put in the governance framework that council approved last year,

1:30:14in part that was developed collaboratively with a working group of advisory committee members that

1:30:20met six to eight times, Mike, you were on the committee, but six to eight times something in

1:30:25that range. And then surveys and meetings with the committees themselves. And there was two things

1:30:30we really saw and you can feel free to chime in. But generally, the folks who were on committees that

1:30:36met less indicated that they wanted to give more, that they felt a little bit underutilized or that

1:30:42the mandate was, you know, these are folks who are looking to volunteer and help out. And I think

1:30:46the simplest thing is they didn't feel like they were actually being asked to do much.

1:30:50So there was the thought is that by meeting more regularly with broader mandates,

1:30:54or reduce the number of people who feel like they volunteered but aren't actually getting to have an

1:30:58impact. There's a lot of barriers to entry for an advisory committee period. I think, you know,

1:31:05whether it's during the day or in the evening, it is a high barrier form of community engagement.

1:31:12And the other thing that the framework makes really clear is that we ought to be aware of that,

1:31:17because there's no way to change that, whether you meet monthly or every other month, it's still

1:31:21going to be a high barrier. And we've got to remember that advisory committees are one form of

1:31:26engagement. And they're a high barrier and resource intensive form of engagement, which is why we

1:31:31want to bring those upstream strategic policy type items to the committee, because it's the type of

1:31:36thing that requires folks to do what you guys do, read reports in advance, pass resolutions,

1:31:42ask sometimes questions of a technical nature, etc. And there's lots of topics where

1:31:49that is just not the best form of engagement. You know, the easy example with transit is we

1:31:54don't want to go to a transit advisory committee to ask at Route 99 to turn left or right on Gordon

1:31:58Street. We have professional route planners for that. And honestly, if I want to know what routes

1:32:03work for people, I can go stand on the bus and survey a thousand people in a day. It doesn't make

1:32:07sense to go to a six or seven member advisory committee, right? So it's trying to balance that.

1:32:15What impact will it actually have? To some extent, we're going to find out. And I'd like to think of

1:32:20this work, because we haven't reviewed our advisory committees holistically in, I don't know, 30 or 40

1:32:26years, a long time. There's a work in progress nature, I think, to these recommendations where

1:32:32we're kind of want to go to council and say, we want to try some new things here. And if they

1:32:37don't work, we will happily come back and find, figure out why they didn't work and recommend

1:32:42and recommend changes. As part, and then you saw, you did ask also about specific for five a day.

1:32:50So where we've got existing committees, we'll likely try to mimic the times that those committees

1:32:56are currently meeting. So Heritage Gual, for example, which is largely recommended to continue

1:33:01as is, will I think keep meeting at the same schedule at time they do right now. This committee

1:33:06will have to look at the four that were merging. I believe they're all in the evening right now,

1:33:12and would likely be kept that way. But there's always room for staff and committees to change

1:33:17that schedule. So if there was a committee brought together to meet Mondays at seven,

1:33:22but the committee members said, well, you know, I don't know, Thursday morning at nine,

1:33:25we really work better for us. And that also works for staff. And we can always make those changes

1:33:30to it's not it's not sense. Don't worry. More question, maybe then if it's going to council in March,

1:33:44let's make the assumption that council endorses the proposal from staff. Yeah,

1:33:51we'll be in the next steps. Right. So we'll go to committee the whole in early March,

1:33:56with council's approval at the end of March, it means we can recruit. So for the non statutory

1:34:02committees, of which this is one, the committee would be dissolved at that March meeting.

1:34:08And we'd no longer meet. We would then spend April recruiting for the new committee. We would

1:34:14bring forward recommendations to council on who to appoint in May. And then we'd like the new

1:34:19committees to be meeting for the first time in June, July. Okay, so language you suggest that

1:34:29the planning committee will continue to function. But the water efficiency and natural heritage

1:34:35committees will no longer exist. So any statutory committee, because it's statutory needs to

1:34:42continue to be able to meet. But from a resourcing perspective, while we manage the recruitment,

1:34:49our preference will be to pause, dissolve, merge, we'll pre-order the right language, but

1:34:54effectively to stop the discretionary committees from meeting. But if you think that's not a good

1:35:00idea, there's an opportunity to have that conversation. Yeah, well, I mean, I can't speak

1:35:05for the planning committee. Yeah, yeah, I'm just curious, because you know, if they have

1:35:10OPAs or whatever that they need to provide comment on, you don't want to hold that back for three

1:35:15or four months until the statutory ones will continue. So the planning aspects then of this

1:35:20episode going forward will continue. And so there's no statutory components of, so if you say this

1:35:27committee, well, I mean, natural heritage or that in water advisory, yes, planning component of it

1:35:32is statutory. Yes, the current planning advisory committee and any other statutory committee will

1:35:38continue to meet to fulfill those statutory requirements for as long as need be. But we hope

1:35:43to not, we hope to get it down to two months from City Council making these decisions and getting

1:35:49appointment reports to them. So that's our OPAs a two month turnaround, which is

1:35:54tighter than it sounds when council agendas go up two weeks in advance and that kind of thing,

1:35:58but we're hoping to make that gap as narrow as possible. And how many positions do you think

1:36:03you'd be looking for then to fulfill the committee as far as the number of people? Yeah.

1:36:1055 to 65. Well, it works. So committees generally will have seven, nine or 11 members avoiding

1:36:20even numbers to avoid tie votes. So with seven committees, a minimum of 49, but some of our

1:36:28committees will have more than seven members. So I'll go from there. We do hope to have a good

1:36:36number of returning committee members. So obviously the number of total seats will be going down and

1:36:42we do hope to get some new folks into the mix too. But by no means do we want a clean slate with no

1:36:48returning members. I think we want a good mix of returning and new members in the fold.

1:36:54Sorry, wait, did you have something to add there? I think it's good. Yeah, we'll cover it.

1:36:59Thanks for that. Any other comments? Yes, Steve. Yeah, so yeah, so in that gap,

1:37:16so my concern with it is that the planning committees mandate OPAs, all those things that

1:37:23Mike was just mentioning and the fact that it'll have to continue will dominate the concerns of

1:37:34environment water within the committee. So I'm curious how the scoping of committees mandate

1:37:44will ensure. I mean, at its most narrow, this committee is the outcome of the natural herd

1:37:52action plan and the committee's mandate is to ensure that the city is pursuing the objectives

1:38:00of the natural heritage action plan. So how will the plan be brought up to the, in importance,

1:38:13to this new committee, particularly if you're keeping the planning committee and then

1:38:17moving environment committee members into, I see it because it's not completely a brand new

1:38:23committee. It's kind of merging with this other committee. Have you thought about that,

1:38:27that integration and yeah, and ensuring that the concerns are on par with the other concerns

1:38:37that are coming to that committee? Yes, absolutely. So right now the planning advisory committee,

1:38:43the statutory planning advisory committee, also meets relatively infrequently. I think three times

1:38:50this year when they've had a little bit of trouble with quorum as well. So there is not a volume of

1:38:55items in that area that I think is going to be sort of overwhelming to the environment or the water

1:39:01focused items because we do have that water component from water efficiency and conservation as

1:39:05well. So I really see them as complementary. I think most of the items that go to the planning

1:39:10advisory committee, there is an environmental and often a water angle to those items as well.

1:39:15So I don't think the volume is going to be a problem and we will make sure when we're talking,

1:39:21when we're drafting the terms of reference and bringing them to council, that they are written

1:39:25in such a way that there is no priority items for these committees. So it's not like, you know,

1:39:30planning environment and water in that order should we get too many items. That is not the

1:39:35intention. And we will very clearly in the terms of reference for each committee, link them back

1:39:40specifically to the strategic plan goals that council has set and tie them to the various master

1:39:46plans and strategies that exist at the city. So there will be explicit reference in this

1:39:51terms of reference to the natural heritage action plan to other master plans and strategies that

1:39:57are relevant to make sure that we don't lose sight of those connections. And there might be a

1:40:01period of time that's quieter on one front than another. But generally speaking, I think

1:40:06if I look at the number of times that these four committees meet in a year, you could reasonably

1:40:11take that and have a nine or 10 meeting a year committee and handle the same number of topics

1:40:18or items at least. Okay, we do have a recommended motion. The natural heritage advisory committee

1:40:31recommends to see council the creation of a planning environment and water advisory committee.

1:40:36Now, someone who want to move that recommendation.

1:40:42All in. And I'll second it. All in favor. Jamie, Justine, Gabriel, and Natasha, we don't think

1:40:57this. Yes, I am. I don't know how to put on the hands up. I'm sorry, I didn't catch what you said

1:41:06there actually. Are you in support? Yes, sorry, I just I can't figure out how to put the hands up.

1:41:14Great. Thank you. Okay, so it carries. Thank you.

1:41:20Next item is chair and staff announcements. I don't think we have any.

1:41:26So a motion to adjourn. And I should say before we do that, thank you everybody on the committee.

1:41:32This is our last official meeting as a natural heritage advisory committee.

1:41:37I've enjoyed it. I hope everybody else has. I think we've we've heard some great presentations.

1:41:42That's some some great staff and hopefully provided some valuable input to them. So

1:41:49thanks to everyone here. Thanks to all the committee members. And who knows, we might see you in the

1:41:55new year sometime in the spring. And you'll certainly still be hearing from me about next steps as we

1:42:00get closer to that March council meeting. And then even after that decision is made, once

1:42:04applications open, we'll be communicating with all of the committee members. And I hope that many

1:42:09of you will be willing to apply if we're able to serve in this new committee structure, whether

1:42:13it's planning environment and water or perhaps one of the other six or seven that we've got.

1:42:20Thank you. A motion to adjourn. Somebody want to move a motion to adjourn. Gabriel. Seconder.

1:42:32Oh, I.

1:42:33Thank you. All in favor. Oh, we have Jamie. Well, let's get Jamie on the docket.

1:42:39Thank you. All in favor. Thanks, everyone. Thanks to staff.

1:42:46Thank you, Mike. And thank you, everyone. Thanks, everyone. Thanks.