Special Council Meeting - Budget

9:03All right, good morning everybody.

9:05I'll call the meeting to order.

9:07It's Wednesday, November 27th, 2024.

9:10It's 9am.

9:12And welcome to our special council meeting.

9:15It's in regards to the budget.

9:18With that, let's stand if you're able please as we recognize our national anthem.

9:23Great. Thank you. And now for a moment of silent reflection.

11:03Great. And our territorial acknowledgement.

11:05As we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in Guelph,

11:09a city built over rich indigenous histories.

11:11We're guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for the land,

11:16the people who live here today and the generations to come.

11:19For actions to date can move us towards reconciliation.

11:22We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

11:26This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time,

11:32but more specifically the Aniwaterok and the Hohenoshone.

11:36This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation.

11:40And Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldemann Track,

11:43and is part of a long established traditional hunting grounds for the six nations of the Grand River.

11:48Many First Nations, Inuit and Métis people who have come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today.

11:54And with that, is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest, any general nature thereof from many of my colleagues?

12:00Hearing and seeing none, here we go.

12:07We are here for the budget amendment day or hour.

12:14Trying to bring some levity already into the meeting here. Thank you everyone. Everyone awake?

12:19Is this on?

12:21So we're going to just hear me say something verbally here because we just have a little bit of a change

12:27on some of the numbers that were on the agenda.

12:32And I think clerks might have some of that ready, but the budget is actually, the correct number is 10,426,643.

12:50And that's under A. And under, what was that?

12:57Number seven, the city's proportionate share of assessment growth revenue is actually 2,925,563.

13:08That's just different than what's on the agenda. They are technically rounding errors, but I need to say it out loud.

13:15Okay, just so that everyone can hear and see that.

13:18Thank you very much for working with staff in regards to the potential amendments.

13:25And thank you to staff so much for all of your work. I cannot thank you enough on behalf of council.

13:31Just a big huge thank you. So appreciative of you and waiting through all this.

13:39So we have all of the amendments and what I'm going to try to do for the first time ever is there's not a lot that are here.

13:50I'm going to ask the clerks to throw them up on the screen one by one. And all I'm going to ask is, does council need to discuss or hold this item?

14:02If I don't hear that, then it means we're all in agreement with what's on the screen. And we're kind of just go one by one by one to see if there's like a kind of a, like a consent on maybe some of them that we don't have any disagreements on at all.

14:19So I will start with number one, which is Councillor Gibson's. And this is in regards to increasing the 2025 operating budget by 100 K.

14:32For looking to start the work on the capital project of the Beaumont Park design work.

14:41So, so is there.

14:45So, so this is the design and public consultation. Yeah. And does anyone need to pull that at all?

14:52Okay, then I need to, I need to pull it for a question.

14:57And Councillor Caton's motion is combined with this one, like they kind of attached because of the actual construction of the park. So I'm going to immediately make sure that that one is pulled as well.

15:07Okay.

15:09And if we continue on, there's another one here about increasing the budget by 56,700 for the board and committee coordinator role, moving it for 2026 into 2025.

15:25And then an offset is the second part. Does anyone need to pull that one?

15:30Okay, Dominique. I mean, Councillor Oroch, sorry.

15:35And then the third one is again from Kate, Kate, that council respects, respectfully requested the mayor consider increasing in 2026, the operating budget by 50,000 reducing 2027 operating budget by 50,000.

15:52Again, that's to advance the request for the advisory committee's reimbursement and training from the future years a little bit earlier. Does anyone need to pull that one.

16:02All right, Dan.

16:05I give Councillor Hippson question of you on process if that's okay.

16:08I'm just not completely clear. Are we pulling these individually to ask questions and then voting on them separately or we just can be trying to consent consent.

16:17We all of them, we will. Well, if, if I went through all of these.

16:21And let's say four or five of them were not I just sent an email about this everybody. Yeah, I saw it. Okay. And so if, if, if, if, if, if I hear on four of them that nobody says anything.

16:31We're going to vote on them when we're done. And then we'll go back to the ones that are being pulled. Okay. Okay.

16:37So Galler is the next one on number four that council respectfully request the mayor consider increasing the 2026 operating budget by 400 K for the transfer to the affordable housing reserve funded by the tax levy.

16:52Does anyone want to pull that one.

16:54Okay, Gibson.

16:56Councillor Goller's next one was in regards to the 100 are E and there's kind of a two options here and kind of I call them an A and B but it's technically 5.1 and 5.2.

17:09So 5.2 is basically a 50% realization than, than, than the first one does anyone want to pull pull that one at all.

17:20Or I'm just talking about the first one Gibson.

17:24Yep. Okay. Thank you.

17:26Yep. No problem.

17:28So that will automatically bypass us by 5.2 clerks. Okay.

17:33What about Councillor Quastin's one, which is the 2025 budget update by increasing the operating budget by 167 for to increase the base budget for the community grants to now total 500 K funded from the tax levy. Does anyone want to pull that.

17:49Okay.

17:54Okay, I got buildings on that one.

17:57And the 7th one again, Councillor Klassen is to amend the 2025 budget by increasing the operating by budget by 100 K to transfer to the public art reserve funded by the tax levy.

18:10Okay, O'Rourke.

18:13Thank you.

18:14Okay. Back to Clawson on number 8 is again to amend the 2025 budget by increasing the operating budget by 100 K funded by the tax levy to provide resources seem to expand the sponsorship and to identify potential corporate partnerships.

18:31And that Council direct staff to provide information report that outlines the progress on this investment by the end of next year. Okay, I'll go I'll go Richardson on that one just to just to spread the love a little bit.

18:44So, Ron has one of respectfully requesting that we look at the 2026 operating budget for the 300 K for the Gwell spy Centennial again funded by the tax levy.

18:57And then into 2027 200,000.

19:00And then into 2028 the 500 K does anyone again that doesn't impact 2025.

19:07But does anyone want to pull that one or be in agreement with that one.

19:11Councillor Caron first line. You want.

19:14Oh, go all or go or want to. Oh, sorry. I jumped to too soon.

19:20And what about buildings the last one which is the transfer of 750 from the operating.

19:27I'm sorry for the tax rate operating contingency reserve to cover the levy of the Guelph General Hospital.

19:35No one wants to pull that so that one looks like that one's ago.

19:40Okay, that was it. So, out of all of that, there's 1 that that we is technically on a what are you ready to go. So that is Councillor Billings.

19:52So we'll do that 1 right away.

19:55That council amend the 2025 operating budgets moved by Councillor Billings seconded by.

20:01Let's say, okay.

20:04And I'm going to call the vote on that 1 is anyone against that motion.

20:10Just you. Okay.

20:12To Councillor Downer. Okay, that 1 passes.

20:16I'm sorry, moving clerks back to the top.

20:23Councillor Downer had a question or clarity around the 1st 1, which was the public engagement and design work under Councillor Gibson's.

20:33Motion for Beaumont Park. Go ahead.

20:35Yeah, thank you through you, Mr. Mayor. I just want to check with staff.

20:39Does this move any other parks further out? Like, I know this if this was done and to be done in 2028 instead.

20:48What is being moved out? Or was it originally in 2025?

20:56Through the mayor to Councillor Downer. So this would not move anything else out. This would add funding for to move this forward earlier. Okay.

21:04And we have the capacity to do that. I'm assuming with the other ones.

21:10Through the mayor. Yes, we have the capacity. Good.

21:15All right. So just be aware, everyone, there is a connection here.

21:19So if this passes, the next 1 is about the actual park. So we should have a discussion about that just as a heads up like on the timing of that.

21:27So we also don't want to do the design and engagement work and then stale date that for not, you know, I mean, like we have to just be careful on that. Okay.

21:35So, Councillor Gibson, you want to move this. Would you at least do that for me? At least for yes.

21:40And can you comment question question of staff first? I would imagine Councillor Katelyn would love to second that. Okay. I thank you, Councillor. All right. And then Gibson, it's over to you.

21:50Yeah, thank you. I'll ask my questions on development charges and how that might help support the construction of the park on the next motion. But I just for comments on this 1.

21:58This is a, it's an under serviced area of our city. We know that it's acknowledged, but we're working on it. And I thank staff for turning their attention to this.

22:07And thank you in the years past putting this into a park, a future park plan and the changes that we did through the York, Elizabeth land use study.

22:16I think it was originally planned to do the consultation and design work in 2025 for respectfully understand priorities are what they are.

22:23But I would like to keep the momentum going for this for this neighborhood.

22:28I believe that there are some development charge supports that may come in the future for the construction of the park, which I think we'll talk about next, but just keeping this on track.

22:37I've said this, I've said this privately, I'll share this publicly like the, the, the Supreme Court of Ontario's rulings on where people can camp and that kind of kind of put this neighborhood.

22:50And we're going to get into a little bit of a delicate balance and we need to, we need to program this area because of, you know, there's history here of, of, you know, we had talked years ago about putting some container homes out here.

23:02I think it's important that we acknowledge that this is a programmed area. There's a lot of children living in the area. They get picked up by the school bus right at the corner.

23:09So, I think that's a really great stories in that neighborhood that I think it's important to program this park. So thanks to staff and I hope I can have the support of council on this one again, not for the construction, but to continue planning for it. Thank you.

23:24Okay, with that, is there anything further before I call the vote? Councillor Keaton.

23:29Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor. I just wanted to talk about my support for the park as well. I think that councillor Gibson is right on the neighborhood has been.

23:39There's no sidewalks. They're kind of landlocked in there. They don't really have the opportunity even to cross over with pedestrian crosswalks over to the York lands area.

23:49So, of all the areas in WALF that needs a park, this is it.

23:54We've got a lot of habitat for humanity homes that have gone up in the area. It's an economically marginalized population.

24:04And there's a lot of folks in the neighborhood who are disabled or have kids with disabilities. So I think that putting it back on to the schedule that they had been aware of is kind of our hope for this neighborhood.

24:22Great. Thank you. I'll call the vote then on this one. Is there anyone against that design work for Beaumont Park to move forward?

24:32Nobody that's unanimous. That's great. Thank you.

24:36So the next one, as I said, is linked. Okay.

24:40Actually, councillor Downer, I put you down for this one to ask a question first.

24:45So it's councillor Caton's motion though. So at least let's get it on the floor. So councillor Caton will move it. I would imagine I'll just switch it up here.

24:53Councillor Gibson, do you want to second it? Because it's also your word. Okay, good. Okay. So, councillor Downer, this is about actually increasing the 2026 operating budget by 815,000 for the capital financing transfers to the growth reserve fund by the tax levy.

25:12So the 2026 budget update in advancing capital projects for Beaumont Park instead of 2029 to 2026 in the amount of 665 and including an additional 150,000 for the rubber surfacing bringing the total construction to 815,000 with the operating impacts of $14,700 moving from 2030 to 2027 also funded by the tax levy.

25:37And to respectfully request that the mayor decreases the transfer to the growth reserve by 815 through 815 K through the 2027 budget update reducing the tax levy. So councillor Downer over to you.

25:50Yeah, so this is sort of the same question because this is advancing the project forward like there's other playgrounds in the city. So I just want to that are planned. So does this motion bump any of the other ones that we have going on in the city.

26:05From a financial perspective bumping this forward through the mayor to counselor Downer know it doesn't because the funding is being specifically added to advance this one rather than deferring something else out.

26:18Thanks.

26:20Thank you.

26:21And then councillor Gibson.

26:23Yeah, thank you through Mr. I just wanted to ask staff about.

26:26I've heard of development charges supporting the development of this park just to be clear. This doesn't impact the 2025 budget. It's more allocating money into the 2026 budget is there.

26:37We call them DC still other DCs coming that would help.

26:41It would help the capital side of this park through the mayor to counselor Gibson. So this is a little bit of a complicated response.

26:51But this is a DC funded project.

26:55However, the, the capital budget and forecast has relied heavily on inter reserve fund borrowing and the specific balance in that DC is also not supporting it at this time in that DC reserve fund.

27:11Based on the projections. And so we have taken a long term approach to phasing and funding for the DC exemptions and discounts that leaves the growth, the tax supported growth reserve fund in a deficit throughout the duration.

27:25Of the budget and forecast period. So.

27:28So to make any change to the capital budget because of the inter reliance with the inter reserve fund borrowing.

27:36Additional funding has to go into those tax supported reserve funds to offset that impact.

27:42Does that.

27:44Is that clear?

27:48You're increasing taxes. Yes, that is the simple way to say it. You're increasing taxes to support to reduce the deficit in the tax supported reserve funds.

27:58To make space for a project that will be funded by development charges.

28:04So, I guess I understand your logic on the backside is the reserve fund eventually.

28:12Paid back, like, it's a reserve fund of the DC reserve fund is eventually paid back the, the tax rate.

28:18Like the, the tax supported part of the budget. Like, will we be collecting that we'll be collecting the DCs for this park eventually.

28:25We're doing it in advance. So at some point, when do, when do the DCs kick in and sort of pay back that.

28:31That transfer of that increase in taxation through the mayor. So the.

28:37Yes, that it will pay back. It's not.

28:40Managed that specific way the reserve fund, the DC reserve fund will go into a negative balance to move this forward earlier.

28:50And it will get charged interest from the other reserve funds that have a positive balance that it's borrowing against.

28:57And then once it goes into a positive balance, it will no longer pay interest.

29:04Thank you very much.

29:07All work.

29:08Thank you, Marguerite. Through you to staff was the intent for the development of this park to align with work on York road.

29:16Like, was there, was there a logic around the timing? I don't begrudge any.

29:22Community in the city, it's park, but was there a plan to align this with the York road work.

29:28So the man of this park was originally in under these timelines. It was moved as part of our capital reprioritization work that we did.

29:35And so from a park's perspective, we can accommodate this new timing.

29:39It was simply reprioritized because of that, that exercise that we underwent. I will say that we will, if this motion passes, we will of course work with our partners in engineering to make sure that we do mitigate for any impacts that the that the real York road project has, but we don't have concerns.

30:00Right. And then through you, Marguerite, to our finance staff, this is a respectfully requests motion.

30:06To consider increasing in 2026. So is there's no budget impact in.

30:13In 2025 through the mayor, that's correct. Yeah, okay.

30:19Okay, thanks.

30:22Yeah, only the design work that we did just approved has the impact for 2025.

30:28Okay, so I'm going to call the vote. I would just, I would just say, you know, before we even voted on the last one.

30:36I told you how, how linked it was. So in a way, I feel like, hey, if we all agreed on the design work and the engagement work, we should.

30:44It's linked to this. So we should keep keep going. Right. So, so I, I, I, you know, I look forward to 2026 for trying to figure stuff out.

30:56But it is, again, I don't want to have the whole park stale dated on a design program that just, yeah, that just sits on a shelf. Right. So, okay, I'll call the vote.

31:06Is anyone against that one that.

31:09Okay, that's good. That's in that's unanimous. Let's keep that going.

31:16And then the next one, Councillor Gibson, you put your hand up on this one. Now this is another one from Councillor, Kate.

31:22It's written in regards to the 2025 budget update being increased for 2025 impact by 56,700 to advance budget requests for the board and committee coordinator.

31:37And then that council respectfully request the mayor consider moving 50% phase in at this position in the operating budget of 53, 6 from 2027 to 2026 also funded by the tax levy.

31:51So, at least let's put it on the floor. Kate and I'm sure you're good because it's your name on it. You're good to put it on the floor. Okay. Does someone want to second this one.

32:01Okay, Klosson.

32:04And Gibson, you had a question on it. Just for the purposes of voting, but also the board and committee quarter. Could staff expand on the work plan that this coordinator would have.

32:19Through you, Mr. Mayor to Councillor Gibson. So staff will be reporting to council in March of next year with the results of the redesigning advisory committee.

32:26The results of that to some extent are already public because we've been going to all of our advisory committees this fall.

32:32That work and the implementation of the advisory committee of council governance framework that council approved more generally requires an additional staff resource in the clerk's office.

32:41So if this excuse me if this position is approved, it means our ability to implement the governance framework and the redesign system for advisory committees will be quicker.

32:50So if this is not approved for 2025, it means that when we come and report in March, there will need to be a more staggered implementation, which would mean things like we've got seven new advisory committees.

33:01We want the clerk's office to be able to support all of them. We would not have the resources to support all of them. So we would pick. I'm not sure if it's three or four of the statutory committees and support those and the other committees will continue to be run by staff.

33:13There's another motion on the floor about reimbursement and training for advisory committee members to set up reimbursement programs for members of the public will also require staff time and resources to manage that type of work could also be delayed if this position is not included in 2025.

33:32Thank you. So just the follow up question was this in the original budget, maybe to the mayor and staff was this originally in the budget or is this a service enhancer that we're looking to add.

33:42Now, through you, Mr. Mayor to counselor Gibson, this was in the original council approved 2025 budget, not in the mayor's proposed 2025 budget.

33:59My last question when I could just add to that. However, some, you know, I would say reasoning was exactly what the clerk just said, the report isn't coming to us until Q one of next year. So until we receive that report, understand what the impact impacts are.

34:18That's that's why it wasn't going to be in for 2025 because the report wasn't done. So there was some reasoning behind it.

34:27Last, last question, I'm assuming that I think I pulled the compensation for the advisory groups or someone did anywhere. We're going to talk about that next but is that a decision point of council this coming next year as well.

34:38Like we haven't made that decision to compensate advisory committees.

34:42Through you, Mr. Mayor to counselor Gibson to point. So the next motion is about reimbursement and training. So it's not compensation in the form of like an honorarium. It's covering mileage, childcare.

34:53Transit fare that kind of thing just to be clear and then additional training for advisory committee members.

34:58The advisory committee of council governance framework that council approved in 2023 does indicate that we ought to provide honorarium stipends to all advisory committee members, but that was never included in the multi year budget and that was anticipated to be implemented.

35:13In the next multi year budget. So it doesn't approve piece that we want to get to, but it was not included in the multi year budget approved by council last year.

35:22Okay, thank you.

35:24Councillor Orrack, please.

35:28Thank you through you, Marga 3 to Mr. McMahon.

35:30We expect there will be probably to elections in 2025. And so I'm wondering what the staffing capacity is. I know.

35:38You support provincial and federal elections.

35:41What's the staffing capacity to support those elections and to implement the advisory committee recommendations.

35:48Through you, Mr Mayor to Councillor work regarding the 2026 regular municipal election. I think our staffing situation is very good. We plan for that. We're prepared.

35:58Should there be a by election in between that will absolutely have a large impact on the entire city clerk's office work plan and it could require moving a variety of reports around based on the timing of that by election.

36:10So, through my guthrie just for clarity, do you not also support the federal and provincial elections when they occur?

36:17Through you, Mr. Mayor. No, not directly. We have lots of staff who also work for those elections and support them, but it's not something run through the city clerk's office and it doesn't impact our work plans. Okay, great. Thanks.

36:27So just a question of clarity because I really appreciate your answer Dylan to to to Councillor Gibson. So we get this report in like March, let's say, and we agree to it and the historically I would say.

36:40Council has unanimously agreed on like every single thing that we've been doing in regards to this topic.

36:45So we agree in March, let's say that on, yep, this is the way we want to move forward without this funding. It's kind of like.

36:53Okay, great that you agreed, but it's not coming for another like 8 months, 9 months because we got to wait for the budget for 2026.

37:00That's what you're basically saying. You're saying like if council agrees to move forward as we have unanimously every step of the way.

37:07It's nice that we would vote for it maybe in March, but you just won't have the resources to actually implement anything.

37:14That is correct. There would be there would be portions which we could implement with existing resources and there would be portions which we could not.

37:23And then it would also have a subsequent delay. We're going to talk about reimbursement and training in a minute.

37:27It would have a subsequent sort of domino effect on the implementation schedule for other components of the governance framework that comes over.

37:34Okay. So with the simplistic answer for me, based on what Dylan just said, I think we should support it.

37:42Yeah, it makes sense to me.

37:45And look at similar to the last one.

37:48It's linked, right? So if we do this one, then the next one, which is in the training and reimbursement.

37:54I mean, we can't sort of, in my opinion, we can't do one and not the other. They're linked.

37:59So, um, counselor, Kate, you want to just wrap it up for us? Go ahead.

38:03Thank you. Three. Mr. Mayor. So basically exactly that. My intent is to increase the, the equity component for folks who are in our ACO sees by bringing the transit and daycare reimbursements up further so that we can have a larger

38:23variety of people who are able to volunteer on our committees. So we need the coordinator to do that. And I just want to kind of make sure that that's moving forward at the fastest pace.

38:36It can be. Thank you.

38:38Okay, great.

38:41I'll call the vote then. Is anyone against?

38:44Okay, just billings. So that passes.

38:51I will just say, last night, I happened to come across an article that the city of Hamilton today is voting to eliminate all of their citizen appointment committees.

39:02Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, wealth is taking a 180 on a completely different stance. It's just amazing what we just did there compared to what Hamilton's looking to do today. So, yeah, yeah.

39:15Anyways, anyways, just saying, okay, let's go to number three for Councillor Caton as well. And this is the linked one that I was just talking about. So it's $50,000.

39:28And now that is for 2026.

39:35Can I just ask Councillor Caton or to staff at either one? Why, why 2026? Should it not be an impact into 2025? Can someone help me with that?

39:49Okay, go ahead.

39:51Through you, Mr. Mayor, I can start and then perhaps the mover can chime in. It's simply about our capacity to implement. So we've got the additional resource added at 50% for next year. So that's roughly a July.

40:03We've got a new group of committees to onboard and orient. And if this is moved into 2025, we wouldn't realistically even with that resource have the capacity to start using that money in 2025, which is why I believe the mover has put it in 2026 to give us time in 2025 to set the system up.

40:21And I bet you that's what Councillor Caton was going to say. All of that. Exactly.

40:26Taking staff advice and making sure that things are turned out properly.

40:30Awesome. And you're going to move it. I know that much. And then all does good to second it.

40:36Anything more on that one then.

40:39Okay, I'm going to call the vote anyone against.

40:41No, nobody that's unanimous.

40:46Thank you.

40:48All right, the next one is Councillor Goller. And this one does not have an impact in 2025, but it is a strong nod, if I could call it that to 400,000 as a transfer to the affordable housing reserve funded through the tax levy moving into 2026.

41:08Councillor Goller, you're going to obviously move that to someone want to second that one.

41:13Sorry, boost it up. Yeah. Okay. Boost it up.

41:16And any questions on this? Okay. Gibson and then a work.

41:22Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor to staff. I know that we had a good conversation about this last budget.

41:29And it was about whether or not the city continually puts money into the affordable housing reserve when the province has discounted affordable housing starts so deeply.

41:40And whether or not we need to continue funding it from our side when the province has forced us to fund it through development charges and HST and things like that.

41:49Could I just a question to staff is the $400,000.

41:55Would that be similar or equal to what we believe we are already contributing in terms of reduced development charges or like.

42:04What is the context that the $400,000 means we are being forced to discount those developments through the provincial legislation.

42:14So what would the extra $400,000 really mean?

42:17Maybe I'm making a comment.

42:20Hold on. It's okay.

42:25The only question I heard there was, maybe I'm making a comment.

42:29So is it is it a is it a comment or is it a question?

42:35What is the projected discount that we're going to be providing developments in 2025 through the reductions of the provincial legislation that reduces the sort of the hurdles for affordable housing to come on board.

42:47Yep. Perfect.

42:48Go ahead.

42:49Thank you through the mayor. So I don't have the specific projection for 25 or 26 in my head, but I have the 10 year estimate for affordable housing exemptions.

43:00Being about 49 and a half million dollars over 10 years.

43:05That is based on the average of the past five years actual affordable housing.

43:12Achieved and so.

43:16So yeah, so that's not based on the target in the housing affordable ability strategy that's based on the actual average of the last five years.

43:24And so that.

43:26Does that answer your question? Yeah, I guess, I guess.

43:30An imprinciple motion then could read that wealth council prepare themselves for almost 50 million dollars of investment in affordable housing.

43:39Out of our budgets in the next over the next 10 years. I mean, that would be a better. That would probably be a better motion.

43:46From a public perception perspective, like understanding where the dollars are going.

43:52Would there be a, could there be an in spirit motion that council prepare themselves for this type of, for this type of investment.

44:01I'm not asking you to make it on that's not a staff response that'd be more of a political response of council, but.

44:09But yeah, I mean, I know where you're going, councillor Gibson, and I would just throw out there that you're forgetting the 21.4 million dollars.

44:15We also got from the half funding as well. So there's a lot of, there's millions and millions and millions of affordable support of transitional type of housing supports that have come through either legislation.

44:29Or through grants and funding from upper levels of government.

44:32Okay, so comment and then I'll go to councillor or work.

44:35So just looking at the, the, the short term, the next 10 year window, I think a more important message to the public should be that, you know, wealth council is preparing themselves for a near $50 million investment in affordable housing that we will be.

44:50Subsidizing through the provincial legislation.

44:53That is an important message, whether this motion passes or not that $50 million is still going to be supporting affordable housing through development charge and HST exemptions.

45:04So, I don't want the optics of this vote to outweigh that investment that the city is going to be making over the next little while.

45:11I won't be supporting this one, not because I don't believe in affordable housing, but because I understand the broader picture of.

45:16We are supporting affordable housing through the development charge reductions and HST exemptions. Thank you.

45:23Okay, thank you or work and then alt.

45:27Thank you, mayor Guthrie through through you to staff.

45:30What is the mechanism for us to have a conversation around the policy for the affordable housing reserve and I asked the question because the joint social services and land ambulance committee is having conversations about.

45:45Affordable housing or socially, you know, social housing. There are lots of conversations and with this particular reserve fund.

45:55We've heard from the community that they wanted to serve as seed funding for their projects when there's a requirement to match.

46:01But I'm also hearing around the table quite frequently a desire for the city to acquire or build its own social housing that could then be administered.

46:09So we seem to have competing goals. We repeatedly drain this reserve every time there's any substantial funds in it. We've done it a number of times now.

46:19So what's the mechanism to have the conversation about the intent of this fund? Is it to accumulate so that we can.

46:27Build or buy or is it to serve as seed money? Because I think that.

46:31Determination needs to happen. So I'm just curious. I have no.

46:35Concerns about the motion, although I fully understand what councillor Gibson is saying.

46:41But I think it's a conversation we need to have.

46:44Sure, through the mayor to councillor work, I will start and then a CEO Baker may want to add.

46:49So when the housing affordability strategy comes to council in December, it will identify some of these gaps and we'll take council direction from there as we work forward.

46:58One of the gaps that you've identified is a seed program and that work is underway right now, assuming that the housing affordability strategy that it remains in the housing affordability strategy after council adoption.

47:10And then we intend to bring that work back to council in Q1 as part of a larger collection of housing related items that will be before you.

47:20So that's work that we have certainly noticed the gap and want to be able to step into. I think there are broader questions about the housing.

47:29The affordable housing reserve as well. This is probably 1 of several ways that the reserve can be leveraged, including how it's been leveraged in the past.

47:37And so I think it'll also see us bring some policy work related to that the affordable housing reserve back at the same time to give council some options and make us most able to respond to how the community wants to make investments in affordable housing.

47:52And so with that, I don't know if CEO Baker wants to add.

47:57So, through the mayor, no, I think that really summed it up. We plan on bringing back policy conversations in 2025 with council and those will continue to develop as we get through the approval of the housing affordability strategy.

48:14Okay, so through you, Marga, through to staff. This is another respectfully request motion that we could revisit when the affordable housing plan comes to council in terms of whether it's too much or, or, or too little.

48:29We could have that conversation then right. And there's no impact today. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.

48:37And then I'll let it wrap up with the mover caller.

48:40Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. It is a comment.

48:43And actually it falls very closely on both counselors Gibson and council or work.

48:49I think my struggle on this one is the issue of transparency in terms of reference that clearly outline where money is going to be earmarked.

48:58I think that we as a council need to consider that we should freeze any considerations of requests until we have terms of reference that clearly outline what our actual principles are for providing support.

49:13And I think it fits very well in with what has been stated by staff.

49:17I will support this, but I will likely not consider any requests until such time as we have the report back in Q3 that outlines how we address request.

49:29I think councillor works got a really good point. We constantly are putting money out. We're never ever building a reserve that has any significance and consequently we're spinning our wheels.

49:44And then so, yeah, over to you, caller. Yes, the mover. Go ahead.

49:48Thank you 3, 3, your worship.

49:50We're in the middle of a housing crisis and I think we, we have acknowledged this the province has acknowledged this and that's what they have given the discounts they have given.

49:59Unfortunately, the approach of letting the.

50:03The market build housing has not been working. For example, last year in 2023, there were a thousand, 320 units built in the city of golf.

50:13To date this year, we're at 585 units built. I think just letting other people developers step up and build affordable housing. It doesn't seem to be working. So this is where I think that we do need that seed money.

50:28We had a Wyndham house here telling us that they're about to want a project. They could really use 500,000.

50:35And then the mayor actually already increased the allocation for this year so that January 1st, there will be 500,000 in the affordable housing reserve. So a project like that could be become a reality and we could end youth homelessness here in the city of golf with the support of this funding for in 2025.

50:54Looking forward, I want the same amount of funding to be available so that other projects and other community members are incentivized.

51:00We've heard about this having to create a sandwich of funding with a little bit of here, a little bit of there having $500,000 or so from the city of 12 does create a real incentive for those projects to get started and then leverage those funds.

51:14So we do have a full year ahead of us on December.

51:18Coming up, we have the affordable strategy coming up so we can always change this, but I would like it to at least be earmarked so that that is their starting position for 2026.

51:28So that's the first thing that we're going to do is we're going to start with the affordable housing reserve.

51:32Thank you. Thank you.

51:34So again, just to recap everyone, there's no impact into 2025 with this at all. We're already sitting at 500,000 already.

51:41And Councillor Goller is just trying to basically make a nod here that, hey, as we move into 2026, we'd like to at least start the conversation in that budget at the same amount $500,000.

51:53And Councillor is bringing stuff to us, including in December and next year we can we can amend, adjust, not support whatever as we move forward through 2025.

52:04But this is not an impact for 2025 exactly okay it's sending a signal I guess is what I would how I would would would would state it.

52:12Okay, so I'll call I'll call the vote is anyone against this one, the 400,000.

52:20Nobody. Okay. Thank you, Councillor Goller.

52:24So, Councillor Goller, this one has to do with the 100 RE reserve.

52:29Now, in a way these two are linked as well the next two to two. So this one is sort of the one and no pun intended the 100% in.

52:38And then, and then if this one were to fail as Councillor Goller is outlined for us, there is a secondary emotion at 50% of what this is.

52:48So, Councillor, you are moving this obviously, and Karan I think you wanted to second it am I right. Okay, so Karan is seconding it.

52:56And the first part is that we're amending the 2025 operating budget by increasing the transfer to the 100 RE reserve fund by 996,133 and restoring operating investment and climate change initiatives,

53:10and the amount of 153867 funded through the property tax levy for the total of 1,150,000 in the operating budget and increasing the 2025 capital budget by 996,133 for capital project to 0261 100 RE initiatives funded by the 100 RE reserve.

53:31And the second part is that we respectfully request the mayor consider in 2026 operating impacts of 153867 and including capital of 1,150,000 also funded by the 100 RE reserve.

53:45And the third part is that council respectfully request the mayor consider increasing the 2028 budget by about 500 that not about I added the word about I'm sorry everyone by 500,000 for a transfer to the 100 RE reserve fund,

54:00and through the property tax levy including capital of 1,650,000 for 100 RE initiatives each year 28 to 2034 funded by the 100 RE reserve fund.

54:13So I'm not going to have to read the whole thing on the next one if this one fails because it's 50% of that but Councillor Goller, you have moved Karan is seconded Gibson you're the one that pulled this one so go ahead questions, comments.

54:27I'm going to play everybody, you can do questions and comments if you want okay.

54:32Thank you through Mr. I guess the in the reason why I asked to pull it was simply.

54:37Do we separate the three, because I think it's impacting three different budgets, rather than just the one.

54:43I was, I'd like to ask the questions about 2025. Yeah, so for the purpose of separating them. I'd like it pulled.

54:51Maybe a question to staff, the, I think close to $1,000,000 looking to go back into the 2025 budget. What was removed from the work plan and what is proposed to go back in with this funding. I'd like to know what the funding would be earmarked for.

55:09Through the mayor to Councillor Gibson so what we had removed from the budget was the entire line item for 100 RE.

55:18In those hundred RE projects those are usually not always but smaller projects associated with retrofits, sometimes additions to bigger projects where they didn't have the funding to do some of those energy efficient changes so all of that was taken out in the 10 year budget so we would put that all back.

55:41I don't have a list of projects. I probably could get one for 2025 it gets fuzzier as you get up further out because we are adjusting accordingly based on what comes up for replacement.

55:51So, just for clarity.

55:54When we approve large capital projects we already we already aim and attribute 100 RE to that capital build or redevelopment build or reconstruction.

56:03The million dollar a year RE budget is for sort of O and M like operations and maintenance of our of our facilities to upgrade them when they come up for renewal.

56:14Through the mayor to council Gibson it is I would say primarily state of good repair replacements that we do but there's also opportunities if for some reason.

56:25A large project had not included additional budget and as a new technology or there's a new opportunity that came out that wasn't necessarily considered when the original budget was contemplated.

56:36There's an opportunity to there to provide some top up funding.

56:39Okay, we're getting to the point that's great so when we have like for like replacement, the infrastructure renewal levy primarily covers that but the 100% renewal.

56:49Sorry renewable energy goal. That's the top up budget if if there's exceeding costs through the mayor if it's required. Yes.

56:58Okay, thank you.

57:00It's to Mr. Mayor I think for for the purposes of this one I'm going to pass on supporting this one this year I think that it's.

57:07It's a discretionary budget that is used as needed, and I'd like to see if there's an impact in 2026 if we had a shortfall somewhere. I'd like to go a year without without funding it and we can revisit in 2026.

57:23Okay, I've also had a request to split them each one. So, oh, I see a half a hand now full hand counselor or work.

57:34Thank you.

57:35I'll go through you through you to staff.

57:39On some of these projects would we not be seeking grant funding if there was a project that we felt strongly needed to occur I'm thinking of $13.5 million I went to the library for energy efficiency.

57:53Are there not opportunities to continuously be seeking grants so that we can move some of the stuff forward.

57:57We are through the mayor to council or work we were always looking for money.

58:01that come our way, we're always asking and looking into opportunities to get additional funding.

58:07I do want to correct its, in terms of discretionary funding, these are, when we do like for like

58:13replacements, I just want to make sure that we're clear in terms of, we have a boiler,

58:19for instance, we have one chance to replace that boiler in the moment, and that's what

58:24this funding would be used for. So I just want to make sure that that's clear in there.

58:30Once that opportunity is gone, you're stuck now with an energy inefficient boiler possibly

58:35for the rest of its life cycle. So I just want to make that clear, but to your point, Councillor

58:41O'Rourke, yes, I'm always looking for money, and I do spend it when I get it.

58:47Okay, and through the AmeriGat 3D staff, there have been lots of moving parts on this budget.

58:53So we've got the transit investments that are significant over the course of the next 10 years.

58:58We've put back in tree canopy, water, wastewater. So are we just putting absolutely everything

59:07back into the budget in terms of 100% RE at this point?

59:15Through the through the Merit to Councillor O'Rourke, so we would put the funding back in as we had

59:21originally requested it. I would say there is, there has been and continues to be an interest

59:28also in community energy initiative as well. You've heard me say a few times that as we look to our

59:34100 RE goals and also our Race to Zero goals to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions,

59:40we are only a part of the community. 3% is a whole 97% of the community out there that

59:46we'd like to engage. So I think with some of the discussions that have been happening recently,

59:52we're hearing there's a concentrated interest in making that a bit more of a focus. So

1:00:00I understand in some of the discussions that happened yesterday that perhaps there might be

1:00:05an opportunity to apply some of this funding to that community energy initiative. We do have a

1:00:11community plan. We've had an environmental table, but I think there is probably, this is probably

1:00:18the time to add some committed resources to that in order to be able to help the community

1:00:24reduce their greenhouse gas emissions as well. Okay, thanks. With that, I will call the vote then on

1:00:36number one on its own. Okay, I want to support this, but I just, I'm just, I'm not there for the full

1:00:46amount everybody. That's just where I'm at. I think I probably would support the 50%, but

1:00:52not for the full. So I can't support this one. Did you want to say something? I'm so sorry. I did

1:00:57forget to come back to you. It's your motion. You can wrap it up. Go ahead. Thank you. And through

1:01:02you, Mayor Guthrie, I will make an appeal to my fellow councillors to please support this motion.

1:01:08We recognize that we're in a climate crisis. It is a very serious concern for our community,

1:01:15for the world. And we have to play a leadership role. We have put a lot of energy and time into

1:01:23the wealth cleaner homes program. And we're asking our community members to do energy efficiency

1:01:28retrofits. This funding would focus on doing the same at the City of Guelph. So I think, I feel that

1:01:35it's a little disingenuous if we're providing support for the community to switch over to heat

1:01:40pumps, but then we may not be taking the opportunity to do the same thing in-house.

1:01:45The focus of this money based on the budget board is to do that greenhouse gas reductions

1:01:51within the City of Guelph. I think it's very important that something that was mentioned

1:01:56by Ms. Holmes, this funding is not just municipal infrastructure. There's a portion of this funding

1:02:02that would also help us potentially support community work in this front. We put a lot of

1:02:09time and energy as a municipality into trying to get that started with our energy wealth.

1:02:15Unfortunately, that didn't realize, but I think now we have another opportunity to take a look and

1:02:20see how the City can play that convener role and that leadership role in our community to help them

1:02:27work on that 97% of the emissions that the City creates. So with this, we're supporting both the

1:02:333% of emissions that the City is responsible for, but also the wider community. Please,

1:02:39support this motion. Thanks. And then a comment from Karan, please.

1:02:44Yeah, so, seconder, I just want to add on to that from an economic point of view. Dollar for dollar,

1:02:49we have evidence locally and nationally and internationally that those investments pay back

1:02:55more than we invest in terms of ROI on efficiency. Later down, and we're in a long game here,

1:03:03the budget isn't a one-year process. The more we invest in energy efficiency in 2025,

1:03:10it will help stabilize our budget in future years. On top of that, what we also know is that a climate

1:03:18storms, wind storms, flooding are getting worse. We're seeing that across the globe and we're not

1:03:25immune to that. Energy sustainability investments now are actually part of our resilience plan

1:03:35for stormwater and for the impact of climate locally. So we're going to save money later

1:03:43down the line in things like one canopy and water conservation have other long-term, those are

1:03:48different goals, but they're all part of our climate resiliency action plan. So I think that the dollar

1:03:55for dollar, this is really, it's the best bang for our buck. Okay, thank you. So, Clarks, I'm going

1:04:04to do one each one, okay? So I'll call the vote on number one. So who is against number one for the

1:04:14full $1,150,000? Okay, so it looks like that's going to pass because it's only Billings, Guthrie,

1:04:25Chu, and I saw one with a hand. Gibson, sorry. Arden, nine four. That passes. Okay, and then let's go

1:04:35to number two, which is respectfully requesting the same into 2026. Is anyone against that? Okay,

1:04:47and is anyone against that? That's unanimous, everyone. And then number three, for into 2028,

1:04:53the budget for the $500,000 to transfer to, and then into $1,650,000 from 2028 to 2034.

1:05:04I'm going to call the vote on that. Is anyone against that? Okay, good job, Counselor Gowler.

1:05:10Thank you. I can skip the next one. Klassen, over to you. This one is in regards to increasing,

1:05:23so this is an impact into 2025, and it's by 167,400. It's increasing the base budget of the

1:05:32community grants line item to now a total of 500,000 funded by the tax levy. So Klassen, I know that

1:05:39you are moving this. Who wants to second it? You're award me. Gowler will second it. And is there

1:05:45any questions on this one? I did put down Billings as the one you asked a question on, wanted to

1:05:50ask question on this one. Well, actually, through your worship, I wanted to ask staff, given that

1:05:56Counselor Gowler's motion just passed, where are we sitting at now with respect to including what we

1:06:02know about where the outside boards are sitting? Are we over a 5.5% tax increase? Where are we

1:06:10sitting right now? Through the mayor, can we have a few minutes to get that response? Yeah. Thank you.

1:06:18So as staff do the math, want to go to the mover, maybe you could just talk to Counsel,

1:06:25your colleagues about the why and make your pitch before. Sure. Thanks, Mr. Mayor.

1:06:32We heard a lot from the community regarding funding for the community grants, and I just want to make

1:06:39one point clear. This is not the CBA. This is not the community benefit agreement. We'll be looking

1:06:44at that as part of the base budget in 2026. This is for the community grants. We

1:06:50administer over 65 community grants. I think that maybe somebody can correct me on that one. I did

1:06:55a quick count just a few minutes ago. And this granting program benefits not just, well, benefits

1:07:02everyone. There's the social sector, we've got arts culture. There's many opportunities. And I think

1:07:10that it hasn't been looked at. The numbers haven't been looked at in a long time. So there has been a

1:07:152% increase year over year for the last three years. But the funding requests have also gone up quite

1:07:21exponentially. And I would say that particularly since the pandemic, I think that there is a need to

1:07:25increase this. I think that we have great community partners who do a lot of important work in our

1:07:32community. And I think this granting program just gives them increased opportunity to continue their

1:07:37work and also address some of the changes in the economy. Great. Thank you very much.

1:07:45Was that enough time for the calculator? No. No. Okay. How about a question right now from

1:07:51Councillor O'Rourke? Through you, Mayor Guthrie to staff. So was there a staff recommendation

1:07:57to increase the amount for the community grants? Through the mayor to Councillor O'Rourke, staff

1:08:05didn't include an increase to the community grants in the original budget proposal that was reviewed

1:08:10by the mayor. However, to Councillor Clausson's comments, I can confirm that approximately 65

1:08:16community organizations being funded through the community grants is correct. There can be multi-year

1:08:21community grants and it makes the math a little bit more complicated year to year. So approximately

1:08:2565 is correct. And to Councillor Clausson's comments, as we've discussed this motion in the

1:08:32recent weeks, we have certainly seen an increase in demand for community grants over the past three

1:08:37years. So in 2022, we received about $606,000 worth of requests for an envelope of about $320,000.

1:08:462023 requests $721,000 and 2024 $848,000 worth of requests. The envelope for this for last year

1:08:56was $332,600. So we are certainly seeing an increase in demand and that's the information

1:09:02that we provided to Councillor Clausson. So through you, Marga, to staff, my understanding is that

1:09:08original pool of funds came from either a dividend or a one-time payment for the hydro merger.

1:09:16And so the original pot of funds for community grants didn't come from the tax base. So there's

1:09:23no question that there's a lot of need. I think United Way would also see lots of folks coming

1:09:28to them and them not being able to keep up. I don't think there's any keeping up. My concern is the

1:09:36motion landing this way without a conversation around ongoing funding. This is in the base where

1:09:41is the original funding was not. So I'm just wondering again, what's the mechanism to have

1:09:46a conversation around here in terms of the policy for the community grants? There's no question

1:09:53that all these organizations provide valuable services, but I'm also concerned about

1:09:5816,500 manufacturing jobs in Guelph where households could be a little insecure over the

1:10:05next period of time. So I'm just concerned about an addition of this size at this time without

1:10:13any policy around it. Sure. Through the Meredith Councillor work, I think DCAO, Clackbush, will

1:10:19have to help me with the history of where the funds originated. But I can tell you that in 2025,

1:10:26it's our intention on the work plan to do a full review of the community benefit agreements.

1:10:30And we expect that to be a significant amount of work. And so in 2026, we want to take the

1:10:36learnings from that work and apply it to a review of the community grant program as a whole. So if

1:10:40you're looking for, we've heard from groups who would like to see us have, for example, separate

1:10:47pots of money for different types of investments. That work right now is on the 2026 work plan for

1:10:53us. And as for the history of where the grant money originates, through the mayor, just because

1:10:59I had the history on this before it was transferred over to mid-sales. And so the original, the

1:11:03community grant program has always been tax supported in the base operating budget and has

1:11:07been since the community investments tragedy was done over 10 years ago. I think what you're

1:11:12thinking about through the hydro dividend was some other, we had some emergency funding and some

1:11:15micro grant, so a sort of different stream that was piloted using that hydro dividend and that's

1:11:21separate from this. The community grant funding has always historically been in the tax supported

1:11:27operating budget. Okay, that's helpful. Thanks. I just, okay, I have a quick question, but Gibson,

1:11:35you go first and then maybe just an update from staff on the number. And then I have a

1:11:40the calculator. I have a clerk. The calculator is completed. So we are at 3.61% for city services

1:11:48and the estimate for the local boards based on the updates that we've received so far is 2.42%.

1:11:54So that is a total of 6.03% levy impact. And there's that includes the zero for the hospital

1:12:04since it is now reserve funded. So 6.03. Yeah. Thank you. So comment. It's easy to get focused

1:12:14on the trees instead of the forest. I'm getting uncomfortable with the number getting up to up

1:12:18to where it's going to be. There are just like we talk about all the different crises that we're

1:12:24dealing with. We're also dealing with an affordability crisis. We've heard about the food bank. We've

1:12:29heard about the increased need for people's basic needs and hanging onto their homes. So

1:12:36just not to play devil's advocate on this one. But if there was no community grant benefit,

1:12:40there was no community grant program. We'd have zero applications for community grants. So the fact

1:12:44that the program exists and it's oversubscribed by 100% or it's there's 100% more applications.

1:12:50That's that's a factor of the fact that the program exists. What we're doing here essentially is we're

1:12:55telling the homeowners and business owners of the city we're going to take a little bit more

1:12:59off you so that we can we can hand it out through grants to other people who are doing good work

1:13:03in the city. But that's a balance that we are getting into and hearing that number 6%. I

1:13:09am out of my comfort zone now knowing what the what it means to the affordability piece for

1:13:14residents of our city. So I'm happy with the 300 and some thousand dollars that is already in the

1:13:19program. I don't believe this is the year to increase that to half a million dollars. Again,

1:13:24I'm the Scrooge but this is just where I'm feeling in terms of my comfort level.

1:13:30Great. Thank you. So just before I call the vote, I just have a quick question.

1:13:34Let's pretend that council agrees to do this 167,000 increases to 500.

1:13:40That would be in the base budget. Is that was at your intention to the mover first forever and

1:13:46ever and ever? It will now be 500,000. Yeah. Okay. And that's the way you would treat it

1:13:51staff. Yes. Okay. And so I just want to know if there is there any learnings that could be

1:13:58expressed back to council before 2026 if this funding was to be improved,

1:14:05sort of increased about sort of even if it's an information item or something,

1:14:10just about the like, where did it go? What kind of more uptake did you have? What were the type

1:14:14of organizations that it went to? I know we get the, I know we get the breakout of just everyone

1:14:19that wins everyone that gets it. I understand that. But is there a little bit more of a deeper

1:14:23dive of the who the what like just to show the impact of what that 167 actually did?

1:14:33Yeah, to you, Mr. Mayor. Certainly every year we provide an update on the benefits of the

1:14:37community grant program and we would be sure to take a deeper dive and provide council with more

1:14:43information about how the additional dollars were able to be leveraged in the community.

1:14:47Okay. And then my final question is this. We just had the applications open for the community grant

1:14:55proposal. It just closed, I think on Friday last week, right?

1:15:00Through the mayor. I think I might have my weeks confused, but yes, I believe last Friday the

1:15:05community grants closed. So it closed last week for 2025. That's correct. But nobody in the community

1:15:13would have known that now there's $500,000 in there. So there could have been a lot of community

1:15:19people that were, you know, I'm not going to apply because I know it's over subscribed all the time.

1:15:25So if this were to pass, is there a process thing here where we could

1:15:34reopen it back up for another month or because the envelope is now.

1:15:40When we're ordering it wasn't my intention to reopen it. Sorry. Or is that just a

1:15:46sorry. I just my intention was that it would it would apply to the next round of grants.

1:15:53Okay. So you want, you want the impact then to be for 2026?

1:15:58Yes, but my understanding through you, Mr. Marriott is that it would need to be in the

1:16:0325 budget to be applied through the mayor to counselor class and the applications that are

1:16:10open now are funded in 2025. And does that help you? So the applications that are open now are

1:16:20for 2025 expenditures. It was our understanding that you were looking to increase the grants that

1:16:26we would, we would deliver to the community in 2025. And that would be the applicant pool that

1:16:31just closed last Friday. So if I could just finish the question before I was interrupted,

1:16:36and it's okay, I understand why you did that. But if I could just finish the question,

1:16:39because we historically, this is what I was in the middle of, because we are historically

1:16:44seeing an oversubscribed amount, we don't need to reopen the applications. It just means that

1:16:55we're going to probably just, we just have more money in 2025 instead of 320, 500,000 for more

1:17:01community members to be successful. Is that the best way of continuing to move forward on this?

1:17:09To you, that's our understanding of the movers intention.

1:17:12So just one second, councillor. So I just want to go to the mover and just make sure

1:17:16eyeballing you because I want to, I want to try to understand. Are you following what's happening?

1:17:21I just want to make sure, like, basically, we know that for 2025, even though the applications

1:17:26just closed last week, there was $320,000 in that envelope. If your motion passes, there's not 500,000.

1:17:32And so if the staff got a ton of applications, let's say 500,000 worth of applications, and they

1:17:39met the criteria, you know, they met the, the, the reasonability of reasonable application criteria,

1:17:45then there would just be more money in that pot for 2025 for the announcements for those community

1:17:50people, community grants to be allocated instead of 320. It's not into 2026. I just want to make

1:17:55sure you understand that. I appreciate, I do appreciate that clarity. Thank you. Yeah.

1:18:01Alt and then Karan. No, you're good. Okay. Karan. I'm definitely supporting the motion.

1:18:11We have not kept pace with demand. We saw the last three years of incremental growth

1:18:16were in a period where households are desperately struggling. These grants go to the, the most,

1:18:23the lowest income, the families in need, marginalized populations for things like food

1:18:28security, afterschool programs, ability to participate in sports and arts. That, that,

1:18:36one of the roles of taxation that I keep reminding myself of today is that we use taxation to level

1:18:43the playing field for all members of the community. And we have not kept pace with demand. We haven't

1:18:48kept pace with the need in the community. And this is just bringing us up to a level that we

1:18:52should have been at years ago at an incremental, at an, in an incremental way. So I'm wholeheartedly

1:18:58supporting it. Thank you. O'Rourke. Thanks, Meg. I'll go through, through you to staff or,

1:19:05or to the mover. Like, is the intent to reopen a whole process? Like, to me, that feels cumbersome.

1:19:11No. Then, then if we amend the date to 2026, does that not put the money in the pot for

1:19:19the next year's allocation? So the next time they do the grant allocation,

1:19:23the money is there for the subsequent year. Like you've given out, you've announced the 2025 money,

1:19:29or you're in the process of the 2025.

1:19:33Through the mayor, the applications for the community grant program for 2025 have just

1:19:38closed on Friday. We understand they are significant, but I don't have a number for you today. I see.

1:19:42Those, the, the, the, the successful applicants will be informed in early 2025, January, February to

1:19:51fly. Okay. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Gibson. Thank you. Uh, through Mr. Mayor to question to staff,

1:20:02that I hear in one of the responses that you are going to be bringing forward or bring to council

1:20:08a review of this grant program in 2025. Through the mayor and counselor Gibson,

1:20:15there's been a request to review the community grant program, but our work plan will not allow us to

1:20:20accommodate it until 2026. So that work will be back before council in 2026. Okay. I'd like to move

1:20:30an amendment, Mr. Mayor, to this motion. I don't know if it's, it's a very subtle one. It's, it's

1:20:36taking the 2025 and replacing the 2026. So that we're talking about this increase in funding

1:20:42for the 2026 budget, not the 2025 budget. Okay. Just email, well, don't email it if you don't have

1:20:49a seconder. Is there a seconder for that? So in other words, we would be increasing the envelope

1:20:53size, but it would actually turn the motion into a respectfully request. The mayor respectfully

1:20:59request the mayor to consider. Um, and is, is wanting who is, did you see Ken? Okay. I'm sorry,

1:21:06councillor Chew. Okay. Um, so you'd have to email quickly to the clerks that don't know what the

1:21:14language is. That council respectfully requests the mayor to consider increasing the 2026,

1:21:22um, operating budget. I'm sure clerks have found it there. Yep. And then I'll call the vote on,

1:21:33on that. Okay. Is anyone against that? Okay. So, um, Guller, Klassen, Alt, uh, Boussatil,

1:21:44uh, Richardson, uh, Downer, uh, Caron, and Katen. That is seven. So that amendment fails. Okay.

1:21:55Um, and, um, now we're back to the original motion. Okay. So I'm gonna. Can I just make a very

1:22:04quick comment? Of course it's your motion. Thank you. I just wanted to say thank you to my fellow

1:22:08councillor, uh, Caron for, uh, speaking to some of the work that is done through the community grants

1:22:13program. Um, there are a number of, of, of organizations who receive grant money who do

1:22:19make life much more affordable for people, especially, uh, low income folks. Um, we fund

1:22:26different housing corporations. We fund the seed who feeds, who, who feed a lot of people

1:22:31in within the city. Um, I, there, if you, if you, I would really recommend looking at the full list.

1:22:37Um, so thanks for that. I just wanted to appreciate your comment. Thanks. Okay. Thank you.

1:22:45All right. Uh, Boussatil, did you want to say something? Go ahead.

1:22:50Thank you. Um, uh, through the mayor and thank you to the mover and seconder for this. Um, exactly

1:22:56that. And I think we saw the delegation from the Guelph Food Bank that talked about the Hubbitt Spoke.

1:23:02Well, the spokes are those little organizations that are,

1:23:06our front line have zero funding that are addressing the food insecurity. And at the same

1:23:11time, community groups are living with higher wage, minimum wage, living wage, food costs,

1:23:18utility costs, and so on, and no capacity to do fundraising. So I think this, this is a good,

1:23:25a good thing as, as the whole public, you know, support is changing that, that array.

1:23:31So I'll be supporting this. Great. Um, I'm going to go to Kate and then downer. If I could just

1:23:39also just a little cautious here. Our role is to find an envelope. That's it. We are not to

1:23:47politicize any community group at all. So in our comments, as we move forward, please, I'd like us

1:23:53to be very conscious of that so that we are not speaking about certain groups or certain people.

1:23:59You can talk about themes of arts and culture or food insecurity. I get it, but I'd like us to

1:24:05stay away from actually naming groups and stuff like that. That is delegated to staff. Our role

1:24:10is funding. And that's it. Okay. So Kate and then downer. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. That actually

1:24:17ties into what I was going to say is that this is our process that we have to make it equitable

1:24:24for groups in the community to basically fund the heart of their work. And so funding this envelope

1:24:32and making sure that we've got enough space in there so that all the groups who qualify can apply,

1:24:40I think is where we should be focusing. And I am going to be supporting this because I think that

1:24:44there is such a big need that we should be having an increased envelope every year. Thanks.

1:24:54Thank you. Downer, all to that. I'm circling now back to work.

1:24:58Thank you. So I just want to thank you for bringing forward this motion and the points around

1:25:05how this helps people in the community because this is the issue I raised that when the budget

1:25:10was first presented, you have the affordability issue of the number, either it be two or three

1:25:16or 4%. But there's other affordability issues in the community around budgeting that that are not

1:25:23to do with that number. And this is one of them how these groups, a lot of them, I won't name them,

1:25:29but a lot of them help people in the community that aren't as privileged as some of us or other

1:25:36people in the community. And I think that's important. And that's also an affordability issue.

1:25:43So that's sort of taking it back to what my first comment was on the first day that the budget was

1:25:48presented. Thank you. Alt O'Rourke. Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie. I will be supporting this

1:25:56motion and I'm very happy that it is sticking in 2025. We heard many, many delegates just a week ago

1:26:04very heartfelt concerned about culture and concerned about poverty within the community

1:26:09who were asking for greater support. What was ironic and interesting is, unlike past years,

1:26:15we only heard from one delegate concerned about the tax rate. This was a significant change from

1:26:21past years. There is a real concern within the community that many, many groups, regardless

1:26:28whether they are from the arts and culture or from poverty alleviation, are feeling the pinch as a

1:26:35consequence of inflation and costs that they just cannot afford. I do urge my colleagues to support

1:26:41this because it's very clear that as was stated by one person, there's a belief that the community

1:26:48is working hard, but the city is not backing it up. And I think we need to show that that is not

1:26:55true. Okay. Almost doing a point of personal privilege there, but just be quiet. O'Rourke.

1:27:10Thanks, Margarit. I just have a question actually. And I would disagree with Councillor

1:27:17Ault's last point. The city is doing millions upon millions upon millions for affordable housing,

1:27:24basic needs where I sit on that task force. And the affordability of property taxes also is felt

1:27:32by these organizations through their rent or if they own their building. So I would just point

1:27:38that out and that the city in fact has done quite a lot. My question to staff, I actually thought

1:27:44when we heard the groups they were saying the arts funding was still being conflated in the overall

1:27:51pot, I thought there had been direction given previously to identify a stream where arts and

1:27:57culture was not competing with say, you know, food security or that kind of thing. Are we going to see

1:28:05that differentiation in this round or is that part of the work that's coming in 2026?

1:28:14Through the Merit Council of O'Rourke, it's my understanding of the history that previously

1:28:18community grants were separated into streams where for example, arts and culture had a stream. And

1:28:23then there was a review that took place perhaps four or five years ago where it was determined

1:28:29that the most flexible and most responsive approach to community need in any given year was

1:28:34for there to be one pot. And so those streams within the pot or the envelope were eliminated.

1:28:41And that's why we've certainly heard the feedback from the arts and culture community recently. But

1:28:47that is that's why we want to undertake a review in 2026 to better understand was the move to have

1:28:55just one envelope and be more responsive to community need in any given year from any given

1:29:00sector. The right thing to do and is it working or do we need to return to the previous approach?

1:29:07Okay. I thought that was happening already. So, okay, thanks.

1:29:18Councillor Gibson.

1:29:22Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just a comment just in defense of the work we are doing as a city.

1:29:27We could spend the better part of this day bringing up and talking about all of the

1:29:35grants, all of the funding, all of the community work that the city is doing.

1:29:41I don't think a comment like we're not doing enough should stand. So, I just want to make that

1:29:46personal opinion that I don't believe that is accurate. There has been a debate ongoing,

1:29:52probably in this city for the last 35 years and it continues. It's an ideological debate.

1:29:58I'm happy to be part of it and I'm happy to counter. Western civilizations have had governments pop up

1:30:06everywhere for the last 100 years insisting that if we could just increase taxation,

1:30:11we can eliminate poverty. It just makes the bread lines longer. And when you tip over the

1:30:17affordability crisis, you just create longer lines for charity and for support. That's true.

1:30:23You have to allow people to afford the lifestyle that they're given, that they're working towards.

1:30:29You cannot tax your way to prosperity. That's the platitude, but we're entering into that world now

1:30:34around this horseshoe where we are just, these are ideological platitudes that are coming out.

1:30:39And I'm just happy to counter that comment. Okay. I am going to

1:30:46do a call the vote on this. Now, I did in listening to some of my colleagues,

1:30:56I did come up with an amendment that I thought might be worthwhile, but I can't move it because

1:31:02I'm the chair. I did send it to Councillor Cawson to consider moving it, but let's just do this one

1:31:12first and then it's up to you. If you want to move the other thing, then I can... Pardon?

1:31:19Yeah, it's not applicable to this. It's tied to it, but it doesn't apply to it right now.

1:31:26Okay. Is anyone against? Choo Gibson Billings. Okay. Would you like to move it? Okay.

1:31:38Lerks, if you could put it up. I wrote it on the fly, but I kind of harnessed

1:31:48Downer and Caron a little bit.

1:31:51No, because it's reflective of this. We're still on the same topic, right?

1:32:08Does someone want to second this one? Okay, Gawler. Okay. I'm going to call the vote on that.

1:32:18I'm going to call the vote on that. Does anyone disagree with that?

1:32:23Aroarke, Gibson Billings. Okay, that passes. We're moving on. Okay, Cawson, it's still you. You're in

1:32:36the hot seat. This one is raising the 2025 budget. So this is an impact by increasing the operating

1:32:44budget by 100K to transfer to the Public Art Reserve funded by the tax levy.

1:32:52Can I say something quickly? Of course. I just need to put on the floor first. Okay. So you are

1:32:59moving it. Who wants to second this one? Okay. No one wants to second this. Okay. Alt will second

1:33:08this one. Now it's over to you. You can introduce it. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. For this one,

1:33:17this was originally in our 2025 budget. It was removed as part of the amendments made by the

1:33:24mayor and it's putting it back in. And the reason I wanted to put it back in is because last year,

1:33:29we discussed both the art policy and the culture plan. And I think these are important things for

1:33:37the community. And if we don't, I think it's part of the art public art policy. One of the things

1:33:43that we say is that council will be an advocate for public art. I think that's in the policy itself.

1:33:50And so we had folks write to us. And I also have the opportunity to attend a conference this year

1:33:58that was focused on public art and culture. And if the city does not invest in these types of things,

1:34:04they just simply won't happen. So pulling them out and pushing them forward, nothing happens. And

1:34:09we invested in a public art strategy as a council. We have approved that this is a priority.

1:34:16And I realize that this is certainly a challenging year. But this is for 2025. And I hope that it

1:34:24will be supported. Okay, O'Rourke and then Koran. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. So Councillor

1:34:32Fassin pointed out it is it is a hard year. So I've supported some of these budget amendments

1:34:40to do the 100% RE correctly the first time to support some basic needs. But I think we,

1:34:47as a city, as a country might be coming into some pretty turbulent uncertain waters, there's a lot

1:34:52of cities where it's private money that does the public art, places like Calgary and Montreal.

1:34:58I think there are opportunities through the downtown rebuilding to see at that time,

1:35:05if there's a great year and we have funds for public art to do it. And in all our major

1:35:12capital projects, there are allocations built in for public art. And so I'm just not comfortable

1:35:18supporting this this year. So I'll be voting against. Thank you and Koran, please. And then after

1:35:24Koran, Kate. Thanks. And thank you, Councillor Fassin, for bringing this up because I didn't

1:35:29realize how that it it was one of those things that was in the in the budget that had been taken

1:35:35out. And I think when we whenever we go to outside of Guelph, and I see places that have public art

1:35:42in their parks and in different locations all throughout the city, I realize how far we've

1:35:47fallen behind. And I think for me, this one is because we are opening the new library and

1:35:55public art is not included in the new library in the public space. And so I can actually see that

1:36:00this is earmarked for specific purpose. We are creating all this new space in and around our

1:36:06library that is public space. And we don't have a budget to animate that space. And when you animate

1:36:12space, people gather, people interact, you develop community. Again, it goes back to there's a return

1:36:17on investment, economic, tourism, civic pride. It's not just a piece of public art, it's what

1:36:24that art does to the community and for the community. Thank you. And then downer, oh sorry,

1:36:31Kate and then downer. Thank you through you, Mr. Mayor. Art is equity. Like we got our Rainbow

1:36:38Crosswalk funded through public art. We can have indigenous art. We can celebrate the

1:36:45increasing number of cultures that we have in our community through art. I think that art is not

1:36:51just something pretty to look at, it's something that makes you feel something. And we need more of

1:36:56it in the city to include all of the population that lives here. Thank you downer and then

1:37:05Bousatil please. Thank you through you, Mr. Mayor. So you may not be,

1:37:09staff may not be able to answer this today, but do we have a policy that requires those building in

1:37:16certain parts of the city, like main entrance ways or downtown that they have to

1:37:24provide funding for public art or engage in public art? I know some cities do that. I think

1:37:31Vancouver is one of them, wherever you build you have to provide some public art. So I just

1:37:37wondered if we have that policy. So through the mayor to Councillor Downer, our public art policy

1:37:43speaks only to city owned facilities and assets. And so we do have that public art policy. It was

1:37:48originally approved in 2011 and then updated, I believe in 2023. So last year, but it speaks to

1:37:55city owned facilities and properties. We don't have a requirement for privately owned

1:38:02developments to include public art. We certainly are always happy to work with anyone in the

1:38:10private sector who wants to look at including public art. But our policy simply speaks to

1:38:16city facilities, but that's writ large. So it includes, for example, police headquarters,

1:38:20the library that is all covered under our public art policy. Yeah, I recall that. But this is,

1:38:25we've had this discussion once before around developers providing public art. And I think

1:38:31it was through the official plan that those types of things, policies are implemented. So I'm going

1:38:37to take this offline and I may bring something back at a future time because it would be great if we

1:38:42could have that as part of developments. Thank you. Thank you. And you're wrapping it up.

1:38:56Thank you. Thank you. This item is really hard for me. I won't be supporting it at this time. I

1:39:03agree with Councillor O'Rourke. We're heading into some stormy time and I feel the need to kind of

1:39:10focus. As a former Art Gallery of Guelph board member, public art, we raise that and the need

1:39:17for more public art, especially in the periphery, not just downtown, the West End, which is a wasteland.

1:39:24There's not any piece of art at all. And I'd like to see more integration as playgrounds are being

1:39:34developed, thinking about city, not only city buildings, but also city developments, including

1:39:43more. So I can't support this right now. If I have this money, I'd prefer to put it somewhere else.

1:39:48Thank you. Thank you. All right. I'll call the vote then on this one. So this is actually impacting

1:39:57the 2025 budget by $100,000 for the public art reserve. Okay. And so I'll call the vote. Is

1:40:05anyone against that one? Please raise your hand. So Richardson, O'Rourke and Guthrie and Busatil

1:40:12and Guller and Gibson and Chu and Billing. So that one does fail. Okay. All right. We'll move on

1:40:22to Klassen. You're still up to bat. This one is also amending and impacting the 2025 budget

1:40:30by increasing the operating budget by another $100,000. It's to provide resources to expand the

1:40:37sponsorship and identify potential corporate sponsorships across the city. And that council

1:40:42is directing staff to provide information reports and outline the progress from this investment,

1:40:47the $100,000 investment by the end of next year. Now Klassen, you are moving it. Guller will second

1:40:54it. And do you want to talk about it before we go to questions? I did have Michelle, I'm sorry,

1:41:00council, sorry, everyone. I keep saying your first name. I am so sorry. Council Richardson,

1:41:04I had you down as a question first. Go ahead. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I think this is

1:41:10timely after the loss of the last one. I think there's a good opportunity to look at how,

1:41:18and again, I should preface by saying that I know that we are doing sponsorship and I know

1:41:23that the city has somebody working through the Riverrun Center who is working on sponsorships,

1:41:29primarily around sponsorship. And so this is expanding a bit beyond that and looking at some

1:41:35of the other opportunities that we might have. This is stemming. I've done a bit of research.

1:41:41You can look at different cities like locally, we've got Hamilton. Hamilton had their rainbow

1:41:48walkway funded by sponsorship. If you want to go bigger, City of Vancouver has a lot of really

1:41:52big sponsorship opportunities. Toronto as well. That includes things like naming rights, parks,

1:42:02different recreation and culture opportunities. And I do recognize that we have one person in place.

1:42:10I worked with staff on the wording for this one, so it's not identifying a full-time person,

1:42:15but rather a resource to potentially work with an external resource person to develop sponsorship.

1:42:22And I think that in this climate, if we want to invest in culture and recreation and tourism,

1:42:31and we keep pulling money away from it, I think it would be wise to try to expand our offerings

1:42:38and attract some of the private sector dollars to be able to offer the community some of the

1:42:45things that are getting pulled out. So thank you. Thank you, Councillor Cousin. I'm going to go to

1:42:50Richardson and then Guller. Okay. Thank you, and through you, Mayor Guthrie to staff. And I certainly

1:42:58agree that there's a benefit in resource seeing sponsorship dollars as a source of revenue.

1:43:03But I was wondering if you believe that this is like the $100,000 does apply to me, certainly a

1:43:09full-time role or certainly a significant number of hours. So could this not be absorbed in the

1:43:14current work that we're doing? Or could we be realigning some priorities in order to make this a

1:43:19priority? So through the Mayor to Councillor Richardson, as Councillor Cousin said, we do

1:43:24have a sponsorship individual on staff already. She just recently worked on and provided support

1:43:31in the development of our corporate sponsorship policy, which was approved by ET, I think about

1:43:35two months ago, and has been rolled out across the corporation. And she does a fantastic job for us,

1:43:42as Councillor Cousin says, though predominantly focused on Riverrun Centre, because that has been

1:43:46the city asset that has the biggest potential to bring in sponsorship revenue.

1:43:50We do have small other pockets through the museum, through transit. Obviously,

1:43:54the Sleiman Centre sponsorship is in place. But what we don't have is the sort of, I would say,

1:44:01staff resources to go beyond her plate is full. And we also want to be careful that we don't pull

1:44:08her away and therefore cannibalize the existing sponsorship and development revenue that she's

1:44:12bringing into Riverrun, because it's about $300,000 a year with grants and sponsorship and fundraising.

1:44:18And so I think in talking to Councillor Cousin, we would see this as one time funding,

1:44:23and our intention would be to use it to bring in somebody on contract or work with an outside

1:44:30sponsorship firm. We would need to wrap our heads around that. And it would really be two things.

1:44:35Are there other programs within the city where we could be developing sponsorship opportunities

1:44:40that we aren't tapping into right now? But the other big one that I will say for me,

1:44:44and I think Councillor Cousin is supportive of this, is naming rights opportunities for

1:44:48the South End Community Centre. We know the library has both a sponsorship person and they're

1:44:53working with a firm specifically on naming rights. We're not actively pursuing that right now.

1:44:59It was going to be a side of the desk activity for Ms. Evans and likely myself. And so this would

1:45:06this would give us the resources to go out and put the program together

1:45:09so that we can then potentially go out and pitch. So I would not support putting it in base. I think

1:45:15one time funding is appropriate. Goller, then Busetil. Thank you, through your worship to staff.

1:45:27One of the items that we have coming up after this is the bicentennial. Would a position like this

1:45:33have an opportunity to do sponsorship and look for money to support the bicentennial celebrations?

1:45:42Through the mayor to Councillor Goller. Yes, dependent on the scope of what we are directed

1:45:48to do for the bicentennial. So I don't mean to sound like chicken and egg, but we need to see how

1:45:54what the scope of the bicentennial celebrations are going to be so that we could then determine

1:45:57what sponsorship opportunities there might be. But I would say that that would be included in the

1:46:03in the look at all available opportunities that we may not be currently tapping into.

1:46:07Okay, thank you. Thank you, worship. Thank you, Busetil. And then I'm finishing off with the work.

1:46:15Thank you. And through the mayor, I think most of my questions have been answered by staff, but

1:46:19I'm trying to understand the work of this consulting company or individual. Is it informed

1:46:25by any plans like the culture plan? You mentioned naming rights bicentennial, you know, I think

1:46:31thinking of Victoria Day, things like that. So whose plan is this individual or firm? Is it the

1:46:39city as a whole culture specifically? If you can just help me understand. Through the mayor,

1:46:45it would be corporate wide. Our corporate sponsorship policy is exactly that it in corporate,

1:46:49it encompasses the entire corporation. It has just been that historically, we have found the most

1:46:55success in tapping into sponsorship opportunities specifically through our culture assets like

1:46:59River Run museums and Sleiman Center. But I do think on the recreation side of things,

1:47:04there are opportunities. And as I said, transit does do a small amount each year. But I would,

1:47:11I would envision that this would sit under the responsibility of Ms. Evans as our general manager

1:47:15of culture and recreation. As she led the development of the corporate sponsorship policy,

1:47:20but it would not be narrowed just to her department. There could be the opportunity to look at other

1:47:25cities like transit to see if there is untapped potential with the caveat that we want to make

1:47:32sure we don't erode our existing sponsorship. So that really is where the focus would be

1:47:37and having somebody come in and evaluate that for us and suggest where we could focus our efforts.

1:47:44Thank you. Okay. O'Rourke, you were finishing on you. Thank you, Margot. Three through you to

1:47:56DCO, Cleckbush. I heard you say this does not need to be in addition to the operating budget.

1:48:03And this can be done as a contract or outsourced. So what I'm thinking of is can we do an $100,000

1:48:14allocation from the tax operating contingency reserve so that the work can take place this year,

1:48:20but without adding an FTE and benefits and pension obligations and all of those things that come

1:48:26and then we could see whether there is it's possible to refocus

1:48:30or redeploy work within existing budgets. Through the matter, Councillor O'Rourke,

1:48:36yes, I would certainly support that because I think from a principal point of view,

1:48:40we would not want to bring another full-time staff person on until we could be guaranteed that

1:48:44they're what they could bring in would cover their salary. So I would say in future years,

1:48:48once this plan was in place and we looked at the opportunities, then you might see us coming back

1:48:53and saying we believe there are untapped opportunities out there, but I would never

1:48:57suggest we hire an additional resource. It would be pointless to hire somebody if by

1:49:02bringing them on staff, we can't increase our development sponsorship activities by greater

1:49:07than the value of their salary. So I see this as one time. I don't want to speak for the mover.

1:49:11I see this as one time and that then once we evaluated the opportunities, we might come back

1:49:16to you, but I would hope it would be in a way that it would be revenue neutral to the tax supported

1:49:21operating budget. Okay. And actually, I'm sorry to interrupt. I just got two staff members that

1:49:26want to jump in, either Shanna or Tara. So through the Mayor to Councillor O'Rourke,

1:49:36I just wanted to say that and given the use of the operating contingency reserve already,

1:49:43today for the 750,000, right now we're sitting at about 19 to 28% over the 2025 to 2028 in that

1:49:52reserve compared to Target. So it's quite low. Just wanted to say that out loud as you consider

1:49:59that discussion. Thank you. Is that what you're going to say as well, Shanna?

1:50:05Yeah. Yes, it is. Thanks. Okay. Anybody else want to say the same thing?

1:50:09So. Okay. You still have the floor. So through you, Mayor Gaffings. Want to move the motion?

1:50:13The amendment? Yeah. Although I'm going to modify it to say in up to 100,000 as opposed to full

1:50:20100,000. Okay. And Richardson is willing to second that amendment. So it's up to 100,000 coming out

1:50:26of the contingency as a one time for that. We'll just wait for that to come up on the screen.

1:50:39I had a question just in the interim. Okay, go right ahead. Through you, Mayor Gaffings.

1:50:42Do staff have a recommendation on a more appropriate way to fund it? Like I'm hearing

1:50:48Deputy CO-Clock Bush say this would be useful. It's actually revenue generating. I asked at the

1:50:53very first budget meeting whether we were going to be seeking sponsorship, whether we were going

1:50:58to be seeking revenue generation. I was told yes. I didn't realize there was no resource attached

1:51:04to that. So what is staff's recommendation on funding that? Through the Mayor, I would say

1:51:12an option is to fund it through the tax levy and have that reverse in 2026

1:51:18as opposed to funding it through the tax operating contingency. Okay. So I'm going to call the vote

1:51:30then okay on the amendment. So if I could just make a quick comment. I will support the amendment,

1:51:41but I do want to say out loud that I really do believe that we are in a city that could have

1:51:48this as a position. So I would appreciate over if this passes. I'd appreciate it over next year

1:51:55that staff take a good look at informing council prior to the 2026 budget to say like wow,

1:52:02this is really working. We can really actually get a lot of corporate sponsorship here and really

1:52:07offset a lot of capital and other things that are happening within the community.

1:52:13I do look at other cities that are bigger. Of course, I fully recognize they're bigger,

1:52:18but they've got like teams that are bringing in millions of dollars to their community.

1:52:24And we either have to continue to look at either cuts or pausing or deferring or we need to try

1:52:34to find to get new revenue. That's not always on the back of property taxes. So this is an

1:52:39opportunity to create more revenue. And I just think that throughout 2025, I would appreciate

1:52:46some kind of that information report that's going to come back that's already embedded in the motion

1:52:51that speaks to is their validity to keep this going and let's make it a full-time FTE that

1:52:56basically pays for itself. And then we've had in the past, everybody, we've added like bylaw

1:53:01officers at zero impact because we know the bylaw officers get to pay for themselves because they're

1:53:06writing tickets. So we've done that before in the past. So this is something that we could even look

1:53:10for, you know, as almost a zero impact if we know that they're going to be actually getting enough

1:53:14corporate sponsorship to start paying for their position plus some to help with the revenue

1:53:20side of the ledger to try to increase revenue without having to increase property taxes all the

1:53:24time. I think everybody would be down for that. So yes, one-year trial I guess is the way to say it,

1:53:30but yeah, I'd love to get feedback to see how it goes to see if the opportunity presents itself to

1:53:34make it permanent. And I got Councillor Allt now and then after you, Councillor Allt, I'm going to

1:53:39call the vote. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. I won't support the amendment. I've been concerned about

1:53:44operating reserves for a while. And I think that Mayor Guthrie's points are quite correct.

1:53:50And as our Councillor Plasen's points as well, I think that we have one simple choice. Do we support

1:53:58it in 2025 or do we support it in 2026 with a report back from staff on the viability of this?

1:54:06And I think to take it out of the tax reserves, in my opinion, is a perilous use of those reserves

1:54:13which might be needed for other things. And I know it's only a minor amount, but we have gone to

1:54:20these reserves at Infinitum and we were warned this year that we have gone into them significantly.

1:54:26Consequently, I don't see any reason to not support this, but I understand if people want to put it

1:54:32off to 2026. All right, well, I'll call the vote then on the amendment, which is to take the funding

1:54:40out of that. Okay. I think we just wanted up on the screen one more time.

1:54:44So, Donna, did you want to say something? Kathy? Councillor Downer, quiet.

1:54:49I'm not going to support this because that's the reason why I didn't support the 750,000 from

1:54:54the General Hospital coming out of the reserves. I mean, and the rest of council voted for that.

1:54:59And I know now arguing against the 100,000. So I'm just sort of, I just wanted to make that

1:55:04point. I mean, that's, we were told this right at the beginning that the contingency reserves were

1:55:09very low. Okay. So I will call the vote against whoever is against this amendment. Please,

1:55:19it's actually technically an amendment to an amendment. Please raise your hand. So Guller

1:55:24and Alts and Busatil and Downer and Billings and Katen. Okay, so that fails.

1:55:33And so we're back to the original motion. Okay. It's actually just to put it in the budget.

1:55:39Through me, Mr. Mayor, I had six votes noted against that, which would be carried. So perhaps

1:55:46a recount on that vote result to make sure it's captured correctly.

1:55:50What did I do? I'm sorry. What did I say? I said it. Oh, I'm sorry. I was saying it

1:55:56by it failed. In other words, the ones that tried to say no, faith fails. I didn't mean it that way.

1:56:01But I'll just raise the hands one more time and say it out loud just so we can capture it one more

1:56:05time. My apologies, everyone. So those against the motion, please raise your hand. So I think I had

1:56:11Katen and Billings. Yep. Guller and Alt and Busatil and Downer. Yeah, it was still the same six.

1:56:19It passes. Yeah, my apologies. Thanks Dylan. Okay, so now we are back to the regular

1:56:28the regular amendment as amended now. Okay. So I'll call the vote on that. Is anyone against that?

1:56:36Alt and Busatil and that's it. Okay, so that passes. Okay. Hey, everybody, we're doing so good.

1:56:47So high fives are around. We only have one more and it's not an impact 2025.

1:56:56So this one is Koran. Councillor Goller, you had asked for this one to be pulled, but I'm going to

1:57:02ask Councillor Caron to at least table it, which is the vote with the bicentennial. So it's just

1:57:08going to table it. Yes, moved by Councillor Caron, seconded by, okay, Gibson. And this one is that

1:57:17Council respectfully request the mayor to consider the 2026 operating budget by an increase of 300K

1:57:23for the Gulls bicentennial and into 2027 200K and for 2028 500K. And why don't you go ahead and

1:57:35speak to it. Councillor Caron. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This is really about economic development

1:57:39and tourism. We know from past civic celebrations of this nature 150 175. This brings in incredible

1:57:47leverage and dollars to our community through an entire year. This is also an opportunity for us

1:57:54to do really meaningful reconciliation work, something that we've been looking for an opportunity

1:57:58to do in this community. And what we're asking the community to do is to partner with us in bringing

1:58:07activities and programs. And we need to provide some seed money, some grant money.

1:58:12They can't be doing it alone. Most of the organizations that we'll be asking to create

1:58:17events and activities are also nonprofits and struggling as well. So this just reinstates what

1:58:24we had previously committed. This is a really low amount to be honest with you. There are other

1:58:29bicentenials Ottawa in 2026 and I'm looking at their budgets for these kind of things. And I

1:58:36believe we're woefully inadequate, but this just reinstates what our previous commitment was in

1:58:41future. So thanks for your support. Thank you for bringing it forward. Kate Gibson?

1:58:47Yeah, just a quick comment on this because I seconded the motion. I remember the night that

1:58:51we had delegates come forward. I don't always agree with this delegate, but she did make a

1:58:55compelling case for taking pride in our hometown. And you know, the fact that the hats are still

1:59:00hanging around. Well, the asterisks and you posted a picture of our hat. The fact that that

1:59:07memorabilia is still hanging around. It is a moment in time in history that we should really,

1:59:12we should put on a big show. And so it's a good natured. Let's try and find the money.

1:59:18Let's try and find the resources and let's work towards a big party for the bicentennial. So

1:59:24I'm all supporting that in principle, trying to make some room in the budget for those funds next

1:59:29year. Thank you. I saw another hand go up. I was Guller and then O'Rourke. Thank you through your

1:59:36worship. And the reason I pulled this, I wanted to ask through staff if there would be opportunities.

1:59:42We just talked about getting sponsorships. Will this money as it is being planned to be spent,

1:59:50would some of it be allocated to looking for sponsorship to leverage outside dollars or

1:59:54is the city going to be the sole funder of the celebration?

1:59:59Through the mayor to Councillor Goller, the original plan that staff brought forward through

2:00:02an info report on the bicentennial mapped out sort of how we would work in the next step is

2:00:07the establishment of that community working group to look to see what opportunities there are for

2:00:12city to host and fund celebrations, but also to activate community interest. And I would consider

2:00:20that sponsorship would be a part of that, especially given the previous motion that passed.

2:00:25And so we will certainly try to both leverage the city celebrating it, but also to see what

2:00:31community groups are interested and how we can find financial support from within the community.

2:00:39Thank you for that. Thank you, Worship.

2:00:42Thank you, O'Rourke.

2:00:45Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. Through you to the mover or maybe to the mayor, my questions around

2:00:51clause three. Should that read that the mayor decreases the operating budget in 2028 by 500,000

2:00:59as opposed to the tax level? Are they the same? So clause one and clause two talk about the operating

2:01:06budget. And I've said many times, I think there's stuff in the operating budget that are projects

2:01:11that we're no longer working on. And I know we're doing audits and all that kind of stuff.

2:01:15But my concern is clause three, should clause three say decrease the operating budget by that

2:01:22commensurate amount. So we are certain that that does not just add to the base and perpetuity.

2:01:29Through the mayor, yes, that that would be a appropriate correction to make.

2:01:33Okay, so I will take that.

2:01:38Okay, it's seconded by Councillor Caron. I think I heard a whisper over there. Yeah.

2:01:42Okay, hold on. We're just going to get that up on the screen. Okay, everybody, I don't need this

2:02:28up on the screen to change one word, one phrase. It's going to come up, but I'm going to slowly

2:02:36talk and then call the vote. So it comes up on the screen. Anyone against the amendment? No.

2:02:48So I will still wait for it to go up on the screen. Okay, there we go. That has been approved.

2:03:12Okay, as that amendment. And now before we go and call the vote on everything,

2:03:17we have another question from Councillor O'Rourke.

2:03:19Yeah, thanks, Mayor Guthrie. Through you to staff, are there opportunities to offset some of these

2:03:25funds by use of the MAT tax as they are driving tourism? I know the MAT tax is not a huge amount.

2:03:34Through the Mayor to Councillor O'Rourke, I believe when I'm just looking around,

2:03:38we had looked at this previously, but because the bicentennial is really intended,

2:03:42well, there may be some economic benefit, it really is intended as a community celebration.

2:03:47And so we didn't feel that it met the criteria of the MAT. Even if we had a big homecoming day?

2:03:55I think that once we are underway with the community working group, if there was anything

2:03:59that was planned that we felt could be considered under the MAT tax, we would look at that.

2:04:03But I would be hesitant to commit to that at this point until the planning is done.

2:04:07Okay, thanks. Wait till everyone finds out. We've booked you two to come and play a concert

2:04:14downtown Guelph. That will drive a lot of hotel stays. Okay, yes. I'm going to call the vote now

2:04:25as amended on those three. Okay, again, no impact into 2025. So is anyone against that?

2:04:31Okay, perfect. Guess what, everyone? We're done. We're getting there. But we are going to,

2:04:46we're going to take a five minute break. Our clerks have asked for that and other staff,

2:04:52and there's nodding around the room. We're just doing a five minute break. And then we're going

2:04:56to come back and we're going to look to approve all of the administrative type of motions that

2:05:01are attached. Okay. And other sort of directional stuff that are non impacts to the budget.

2:05:07During this time, Shana, do you happen to have a number already or do you want to just say it

2:05:14when you come back? No, I have a number. Okay. So for 2025 for city services. Just for the city

2:05:19side. It's 3.66. 3.66. So a move from 3.21 to 3.66. And then a rough, do you have a rough total

2:05:30based on what we think the outside boards and everything will be in? Six point something.

2:05:34Rough total is 6.08 to be confirmed in January. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. So thank you,

2:05:42everyone. Let's just take that five minute break. It's 1057. Let's come back here at 1105. So a

2:05:47little bit more than a five minute break. Okay. 1105 and we'll wrap it up. Thank you. Okay, everyone.

2:13:46This is your 30 second warning. Okay, everyone. I'd like to call the meeting back to order.

2:15:45So the next motion that's going to come up on the screen is the shortening of the 30 day budget

2:15:51amendment period. So we are getting into more sort of administrative things. Now before we move

2:16:00this, the reason why this is up and ready on the screen is because I am not vetoing anything.

2:16:07I wanted, I very publicly have stated this over and over and over again that I wanted to get to

2:16:14this moment and say that this, you know, this is the amendment night for council. I respect that

2:16:21fully and I am not vetoing anything. So where we've landed is where we've landed. I need this to be

2:16:28passed though, so that I can sign the paperwork I have to sign to say we're done. Okay. So

2:16:35would someone be willing to move this for me? Okay, Gibson and Olt. Is there anything on that?

2:16:41Nope. Okay, I'll call the vote. Is anyone against that?

2:16:45Nobody. So clerks, if you could please send me the document to sign, I would appreciate it.

2:16:52Okay. Now here we go with all, this is quite normal everybody. This is all the staff recommendations

2:16:59attached. You want to do those first? Okay. I'll go to the end then. Sorry, I thought it was in order.

2:17:10So this can all go away, right? Good. Okay. Before we get to the administrative stuff,

2:17:25there is a couple of directional motions. Again, no impacts on budget from council or downer.

2:17:31There's two of them and then I'll get to the administrative stuff. Okay. So the first one

2:17:35is that staff be directed to report back on the progress of the culture plan and the implementation

2:17:41funding through an information report in September of 2025. So I know councillor downer is obviously

2:17:49moving that seconded by councillor Caron. Do you want to say anything? Yeah, I just want to say

2:17:54and to thank the mayor for putting the 75,000 into the budget for the culture plan, which was

2:18:01what had been suggested in the report when we approved the plan. And this part of this

2:18:09funding was to help us fully cost the plan so that we could implement it. So because the mayor

2:18:15put it back in, we're not going to do it in 2037 as was originally brought to us. We're going to

2:18:21do it now. So it'd be great to get some costing before the end of next year before the budget

2:18:25so we can look at what might need to be added at that time. Clearly stated. Thank you. I'll call

2:18:32the vote then on that. Is anyone against that information report? Nobody. Perfect. The second

2:18:38one is again, councillor downer and it's that staff be directed to report back through an

2:18:42information report on what the outcomes are expected to be achieved in the 10 year capital

2:18:48budget and forecast period for each of the council approved master plans and strategies

2:18:53that are based on today's budget on the 2025 budget. So moved by downer seconded by a goller.

2:19:00And then did you want to speak to that one? Yeah, so I so yes, we so we, you know, commend staff on

2:19:06having the fully funded capital budget. But in doing that, we've significantly altered a number of

2:19:12our plans. So the trails master plan, the waste master plan, the parks and rec transit has been

2:19:18rejigged around and the urban forest management plan. And there's others as well. So all these

2:19:27plans came with implementation strategies and timelines that will be greatly altered.

2:19:33And some may not be implemented even before they're ready to be updated again. And all these

2:19:38plans went through robust public engagement when people were excited and we had committees and

2:19:44things helping us resources were utilized. So, so this motion basically says like, okay, so now we

2:19:51need to alter the expectations in our community, because that's every time. Sometimes I refer to

2:19:57those plans implementations myself, I think, Oh, this is supposed to be done like in my ward,

2:20:02when somebody asked about it at a certain time. But that's all changing through this budget and

2:20:07probably subsequent budgets now. So in order to keep the fully funded capital in the 10. So

2:20:13I just would like to see those realistic implementation plans impacts coming back to

2:20:21council at some point this next year. All right. So I have all to then. Oh,

2:20:28thank you, Mayor Guthrie through you to CEO Baker. Are there any cautions,

2:20:33caveats or outright statements that you would like to make on this?

2:20:38Through the mayor to cancel or no, I'm not concerned and we're happy to report back.

2:20:48You're good. Okay. You might have been on the same wavelength. That's good. Okay.

2:20:53I'm going to call the vote then on this one. Anyone against that information report?

2:20:58Nobody. That's great. That passes unanimously. Okay, so now we are to

2:21:03the kind of the administrative ones that we have to do every year. So there are a lot of them.

2:21:13There's 10 of them. And so maybe we'll just throw them up on the screen. You'll move the

2:21:20councillor Gibson at least. Okay. Sure. Yep. Sure. Councillor Gibson, you'll move councillor

2:21:26Colassen will second. And so this is again, this is very administrative everybody, but it's

2:21:32it's the rates and fees. It's all about the reserve fund policies, one time transfers or in

2:21:38regards to the library, lots more in regards to reserve funds. Yeah. Again, more about reserve

2:21:52funds that we're acknowledging updates to the contingency reserves to punish those and a first

2:21:57priority of allocation of year and surplus to try to reach that minimum 75% target over the

2:22:03multi-year budget period. Number seven is that council acknowledges that the 10-year capital

2:22:11budget included will significantly draw on capital reserves and inter-reserve funding.

2:22:19The council acknowledged that the 10-year capital budget of forecasts included with debt financing

2:22:26and that the debt levels may have been maybe in excess of the credit rating,

2:22:31which we actually kind of knew even going into this year. Now it's just really putting it out

2:22:36there. But anyways, and given the sustained increase in the size of the capital budget forecast,

2:22:42the drawdown of reserves and that staff be directed to assess the long-term capital needs of the

2:22:48water and wastewater and impact on customers of the utility rates to achieve, to achieve,

2:22:56I'm sorry, a balanced capital reserve fund forecast as presented as part of the 2026

2:23:01budget confirmation process. And okay, so are there any questions on any of that? Nope. Okay,

2:23:11I'll call the vote. Is anyone against? Nobody? Okay. And then I have one more, right, clerk? I think

2:23:20we're lost. The budget impacts per Ontario regulation 28409 and budget public sector

2:23:26accounting standards reconciliation for the 25 budget be approved. Oh, I think that's all your

2:23:31hand go up. Would you move that for me? Yeah. And then caller, I see you looking at me. Okay,

2:23:36seconded by caller. Again, this is just administrative. I'm just going to call the

2:23:42vote. Does anyone against that one? Nobody? Okay. Thank you. That's unanimous.

2:23:51Sorry, Councillor Gibson, you said you wanted to have a quick comment and then I'll alt as well.

2:23:56Thank you. Through you, Mayor Guthrie, as I say, almost every year it's never personal at budget

2:23:59time. And I appreciate everyone's opinions and voices around the horseshoe. I wanted to just

2:24:05start with acknowledgement. We started at 10% respectfully, which was unpalatable for a lot

2:24:12of us. And I know it was the mayor too. So I just want to thank the mayor for the work that you've

2:24:16done on the budget, but also as well to staff, Tara, new CAO and the fresh eyes that you brought to

2:24:22the budget and to all of your all of your team. I really appreciate the work that's been done to

2:24:27sort of bring some relief through this budget process. I think 3.66%. I think I heard that

2:24:33right from the city is despite the number for some, it is an achievement based on the pressures that

2:24:38we're facing and the inflationary pressures that we're facing across the board. I think I heard

2:24:43outside boards are coming in at 2.4, which sounds again, is very reasonable in the climate that

2:24:50we're living in. Again, I always look at the budget from an achievement perspective,

2:24:56a 10 year fully funded capital budget where we have no disclaimer that says we have a ton of

2:25:02projects that are unfunded. They're in the budget, but they're not funded. I never liked that. And I

2:25:06really appreciate that that's not in there anymore. This is a realistic budget. We're speaking honestly

2:25:10to the community about what's coming and what's going to be built. We continue to plan and build

2:25:16a reserve fund for our future hospital expansion, which I think is again, an achievement. It's good

2:25:20foresight. We're ready when the part when the province is ready. And then lastly, just as a little

2:25:25kicker today, this we're planning properly for the bison tennis celebration. So I just wanted to

2:25:30leave that those are my take home messages from this budget. Again, never personal around the

2:25:35horseshoe. I know we've agreed and disagreed today, but thanks to council for the collaboration.

2:25:41Okay, thank you and alts, please. Thank you, America 3. Just a couple of comments.

2:25:46Comments are I appreciate council Gibson's comments, but mine are slightly different,

2:25:50quite a bit different. As I stated before, I am concerned for our reserves. And I think it's

2:25:57very important that we recognize that our reserves are much like a family line of credit. And at some

2:26:02point, we're going to have to pay them back. I understand we are significantly below our

2:26:07recommended threshold. And that's that's a concern. And the concern is based upon any potential

2:26:12surprises that might come up from the provincial government again, much like we had surprises

2:26:18on our development charges that have had a significant impact on our budget, not just last

2:26:23year, but this year as well. And next year too, I think we need to be aware of that and need to

2:26:29recognize that our reserves are there for those rainy days, which regrettably might be rainy days

2:26:36created by another level of government. Thank you to staff. Thank you to council for the concern

2:26:42for making certain that Guelph remains a livable city. Okay, I'm going to now just say my comments,

2:26:55which are nothing but thank you. Thank you very much to staff. This has been probably a record

2:27:00in regards to how fast we've gone through a budget on on a day. I mean, some of us have been here

2:27:06a while, remember sometimes two full days coming back. The honing of the process has been much

2:27:14better year over year. And that's a lot to do with staff. So I just want to say thank you to staff.

2:27:21Thank you to our leadership of our CAO and the executive team, especially the transition, the

2:27:27fact that our new CAO came from really, you know, looking over this budget. But in the passing of

2:27:33the torch with you, moving into CAO, Tara, Shanna, and to your team, Karen, Stephanie,

2:27:39Jody, I could go on. Everyone that's listening, just want to say thank you.

2:27:44And then finally, I just want to say thank you to the public. It was good to hear not only on

2:27:51delegation night, but in correspondence or town halls or things like that of what was important

2:27:57to bring value to the community. It is a little bit higher than I would have originally wanted.

2:28:03But if you look at the value that's been included in the budget, there's nothing to scoff at in

2:28:08my opinion at all. And those impacts are going to be felt. That value will be felt in 2025.

2:28:15And so that's an important thing. And so I think we've, I think we struck a very good balance here

2:28:23of not having an unaffordable property tax increase at almost 10% or actually even more.

2:28:30Because some of the things that were actually added were brand new things and they could have even

2:28:34higher, could have even been higher than 10%. But we've touched on transit like housing,

2:28:40community groups, culture, arts, bicentennial, safety issues in the community for trails.

2:28:51I mean, kind of everything's been sort of touched. And I think that's important as well.

2:28:56And so I just, I think we've landed in a balanced, good place. And I think the community that uses

2:29:05the value that we've all added into the budget, we'll appreciate it when they learn about it

2:29:11and when they use the things that they might be able to now use moving into next year.

2:29:17So thank you to council as well. I really appreciate, you know, everybody did reach out

2:29:23in one way or another. Like I really do appreciate you reaching out to me. And I hope that that was,

2:29:31you know, 90% of that was sort of shown, I believe, in the draft budget. I think we would have probably

2:29:37been here a lot longer today if a lot of that wasn't in the budget. So that, you know, I think that

2:29:43recognizes that I was listening and putting it in there for you. And you are a conduit to the

2:29:47community too, right? So it's through you, through to your residents that you represent,

2:29:51which I fully respect as well. So thank you very much to council too. With that, I guess I'm just

2:29:58looking for a motion to adjourn. I'll go to my favorite adjourn counselor. That would be Billings.

2:30:04Yeah. And your award, mate, Bousatil, is going to second that. Is anyone against adjournment?

2:30:13Okay, that's also unanimous. So thank you, everyone. Have a great rest of the day. Take care.