Accessibility Advisory Committee

1:01Just keep it down to the door again.

1:04Sure, nobody's waiting inside.

1:15It's really a bit bad, Sherwin.

1:16So we have four and nine as well.

1:18We have nine more.

1:21Okay, well, security said that they were watching,

1:23so we'll keep the door open.

1:50So welcome everybody, Leigh Ann Warren and Aaron.

1:55So we have someone else joining us, great.

2:00I just want to find out,

2:03Laura, can I just ask you a really quick question?

2:06Should I be using your work email

2:08or the other email that you have with us?

2:14For what purpose?

2:15What are you sending out questions for people to answer

2:20during as part of the facilitation of the workshop?

2:23Yeah, my work email.

2:25Yeah, me too.

2:26Yes.

2:58Hi Sherwin, this is Joey from the City Clerk's Office.

3:01I just want to inform you that we do have quorum

3:03and you can call the meeting to order

3:05whenever you're ready.

3:09Sorry, I'm not clear.

3:10Am I supposed to be doing that?

3:13I thought there was a...

3:17So you can see the agenda up on this screen.

3:22Sorry, I should have communicated that with you

3:24before the meeting.

3:26So we still need to open the meeting

3:29and officially close the meeting as well.

3:31So we still need a few things of business to happen here.

3:37So we have the territorial acknowledgement

3:44as well as the agenda needs to be approved

3:47and we can approve the minutes of October 17th as well.

3:51And then the workshop kind of hand over

3:53and then you will close the meeting.

3:55Okay, I just need a minute to pull it up on my screen.

3:59No worries.

4:12Sorry, just pulling it up.

4:16Okay.

4:19Can you make that a bit bigger please?

4:22Sorry, me?

4:23What was that again?

4:24Whoever's sharing their screen

4:26if they could make the text larger please.

4:31Oh, that's not me, I'm not sure.

4:33It's me and I will have to see how I can do that

4:37because I'm not sure.

4:49It says it's Leanne on the screen.

4:52I'm not sure Leanne if you're sharing your screen

4:54but if you could make that just a bit bigger

4:56that would be really helpful.

4:58I'm trying to figure it out, sorry.

5:00That was me that center was trying to figure it out.

5:03This one here.

5:04Okay, maybe the three dots on the side there.

5:12Oh, there we go.

5:14Great, thank you.

5:17Yeah, can you go with that?

5:19I think I was on the wrong screen.

5:21Thank you.

5:22All right, I might as well

5:23while we're figuring that out

5:25call the meeting to order.

5:27So welcome everyone.

5:28Thank you so much for coming.

5:29Just a reminder for everyone

5:31that this meeting is being recorded today.

5:34We'll start things with the

5:36Indigenous Territorial Acknowledgment.

5:38As we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege

5:42to live and work in Guelph,

5:43a city built over rich Indigenous histories.

5:46We are guests here and we should reflect upon

5:48the responsibility to care for this land,

5:50the people who live here today

5:51and the generations to come.

5:53If our actions today can move us toward reconciliation

5:56we should take pause and make those decisions

5:59with intention and gratitude.

6:01This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands

6:04and a place of refuge for many peoples over time,

6:07but more specifically the Atta Wanderak

6:09and the Haudenosaunee.

6:12This land is held as the treaty lands and territory

6:15with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation.

6:18Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Hallamond Tract

6:21and is part of a long established traditional hunting ground

6:24for the six nations of the Grand River.

6:27Many First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples

6:29who have come from across Turtle Island

6:31call Guelph home today.

6:33There's a link in our agenda where you can learn more

6:37about the Indigenous territorial acknowledgement.

6:40So are there anything?

6:42Do other people hear anything?

6:47Oh, yes.

6:48Yes, oh, yes.

7:05Elizabeth, can you hear us now?

7:08I don't know if we have quorum

7:09without Elizabeth being able to hear,

7:11so should I just pause for now, Leanne?

7:14I believe we do have quorum.

7:18To the chair, we have 10 members right now.

7:20So if member Elizabeth is not present,

7:23we still have nine members.

7:25So we do have quorum at nine members of the AAC.

7:29Okay, so I can go ahead and ask about

7:31Disclosures of Conflict of Interest.

7:33Yeah, yeah.

7:34Okay, okay, perfect.

7:35Sorry, procedurally I'm not totally sure.

7:38Thank you for your clarification.

7:41So Conflict of Interest,

7:42does anyone want to disclose a conflict of interest

7:45for today?

7:47I see and hear none.

7:49So moving on, oh gosh.

7:55To approval of the agenda.

8:00Could I see someone?

8:01Okay, we've got Ted approved and can we have a seconder?

8:06Chris Lytle is the seconder.

8:09And do we have to vote on that, Leanne?

8:12Yes, yeah.

8:13Yes, so if anyone is opposed to the approval of the agenda,

8:17if he could raise your hand on camera

8:19or using the hand raise function.

8:23And I see and hear none.

8:24So that passes.

8:25Thank you so much.

8:30And now we need approval of the minutes as well.

8:32Would anyone like to move to approve the minutes?

8:35Chris Lytle has a hand raised and Ted to second.

8:38Thank you so much.

8:39Is anyone opposed to the approval of the minutes?

8:45I see and hear no one.

8:47So that passes as well.

8:49And now we can move into the workshop.

8:51Thank you so much.

8:56Wonderful.

8:56Thank you, Chair Root.

8:58And hello everyone.

8:59My name is Sarah Nicole Martin.

9:02I am from Waterloo Region

9:04and I've been asked to come

9:06and to facilitate our workshop today.

9:10My background is in social work

9:12and organizational development

9:14as well as in the developmental services sector.

9:17And as a professional facilitator,

9:20I really am passionate about helping groups

9:23to have great discussions, collaborate well.

9:28And I really do approach all of my work

9:32from the belief that we are better together

9:34when we bring our many minds together.

9:38And so I'm really excited to facilitate

9:43our discussion this afternoon or this evening.

9:46Thanks for joining me.

9:50I'll start by just reiterating the agenda

9:54and how we'll be dividing up our time today.

10:02So we've done our welcome and opening remarks.

10:07I have a few sort of collaborative principles

10:10I'd like to suggest that I'm gonna share with you.

10:13And then we're gonna have an opening activity

10:16that will help to connect us on our purpose

10:19for this meeting and the purpose and importance of the AAC.

10:25We're gonna have a brief context setting presentation

10:29from Jen.

10:33And then we're gonna move into our discussion

10:36about voting methods, voting and voting methods

10:40prioritization.

10:42And really our main goal and objective

10:45for this conversation is to hear all of your different

10:49voices and perspectives on this topic.

10:53We really want to make sure that we're capturing

10:56everybody's thoughts.

11:02How does that sound for a plan?

11:07All right.

11:10These are a few collaborative principles

11:13that I love to bring to every session that I facilitate.

11:17And I'll just explain them a little bit.

11:19So the first one is I'd invite us to hold the belief

11:24that everyone has important contributions to make.

11:28I certainly believe that of each of you.

11:31The next is that nobody knows everything

11:35but together we know a lot.

11:37And so our goal here is really to be able to put

11:40all of our brains together to have a nice,

11:43wholesome discussion.

11:45The next one, I'd encourage each of us to be curious

11:49and see what we can learn from each other,

11:51from perspectives that are similar or different

11:54from our own.

11:56And then this next one, I think is important.

11:59You don't have to be articulate all the time.

12:02We're here to have a discussion and if we stumble

12:06over our words or need to help each other

12:09express an idea, there's space for that.

12:11This is really meant to be a discussion, as I said.

12:17And then the last one I like to put forward

12:20is this concept of move up, move up.

12:24And what I mean by that is if you are the type of person

12:28who is very comfortable jumping in

12:31to share your thoughts right away,

12:33find some opportunities to move up into a listening role.

12:38And if you're someone who tends to hold back

12:41and not wanna share your ideas,

12:44then find opportunities to move up into a speaking role.

12:49And so if we are all just creating space for each other,

12:54the goal is that we can then make sure we're hearing

12:56as equitably as possible from everybody.

13:01So those are some of the principles I like to put forward,

13:05but I'll invite you to jump in.

13:08Is there anything else that you would want to add

13:11in order for this to be a productive conversation today?

13:16And if you wanna use the raise hand function,

13:18that's a great way for me to see who's speaking.

13:34I'll always give a little bit of time.

13:35I like to use silence as a way to make sure

13:40people have time to think about what you want to add.

13:44So I'll always try to leave a little bit of time

13:48for you to see if you have anything else to say.

13:54Okay.

13:55And if there's nothing else,

13:57just a few other comments about

14:01how I'll facilitate our time together.

14:04I'm going to use my screen share as I am now

14:07as sort of a whiteboard or a flip chart for our discussion.

14:12And so you'll see me, I'll take notes in here real time,

14:17but I'll always say what I'm typing out loud as well.

14:21So anything that's written on this document

14:23will also be spoken by me out loud.

14:27I wanted to provide a few different options

14:31for the way that you can contribute to this conversation.

14:35So we're gonna be doing something

14:37that's a little different from what you've done before.

14:41We'll add a few key moments during our workshop.

14:45Leanne will send you an email

14:47that will have a link to a Google form.

14:50And there'll be a question that you can respond to in there

14:54so that if you'd like to contribute your thoughts

14:57by text and anonymously,

14:59then that's a great option for you.

15:02If you're not too worried about that,

15:04then of course there's also the option to unmute yourself

15:07and share your thoughts directly in the meeting here as well.

15:12So those are the kind of two ways that you can contribute.

15:16You can choose one or you can use both.

15:22Okay.

15:24Can I get a thumbs up if everyone's following along so far?

15:28And if that sounds okay.

15:32Sorry to interrupt.

15:33Leanne, you just sent me something

15:35and I don't know whether it was for this workshop,

15:38but I'm being told it's being held by my,

15:40so I need you to send it to the other email.

15:43Okay, no problem.

15:44Sorry, is it for today?

15:45Do I need to go get it right now?

15:47Is it for this?

15:48Yeah, it's for this, yeah.

15:49Okay, I will figure that out.

15:51Sorry, everyone, I just got a message

15:53that my work is holding it.

15:57No problem, Chair Root.

15:59And yeah, so now is our first test of this additional way

16:04that you can contribute to the conversation.

16:07If it's difficult to navigate over to your email

16:11to open up that link, then please no pressure.

16:14You don't have to, but you can if you'd like.

16:18And so now would be a great time to check your inbox.

16:22And there's going to be the question that I have for you

16:27for this opening activity.

16:31In one to two sentences, I would invite you

16:34to describe an experience with voting that you're aware of

16:39and why accessible voting methods matter to you.

16:43So just in a short one to two sentences,

16:46and this could be you sharing from your own experience,

16:51or you could be sharing an experience

16:55of somebody else that you know.

16:56So it's anonymous in that way.

16:59We won't assume that what you share is your own experience.

17:02It's just an experience with voting that you're aware of.

17:07So I'll give us a few moments right now just with silence.

17:11You can either go to your email and answer this question

17:15in the Google form link that you've been sent,

17:18or you can just take some time to think about your response.

17:22And in a couple of minutes, I'll invite you to share.

18:34Okay, I see a couple of hands up.

18:36We'll just wait a few more seconds

18:38while people collect their thoughts.

18:53Okay, so you'll see that I also, for transparency,

18:57have the Google forms open on my screen share.

19:01So in a minute, I'll grab the responses from there

19:04and I'll add them to our conversation.

19:08But let's start with the hands that we've raised first.

19:12So Jeanette, in a couple of sentences,

19:15could you share, describe an experience?

19:19Yeah, I just wanted to, before we get into this,

19:21just mention that I have not received that email

19:26with the title opening activity.

19:30So I don't know if others are in the same position,

19:33but in regards to my, it's more of a personal opinion

19:38rather than something that happened to me,

19:40but something that I witness is become increasingly apparent

19:49that we have issues around accessibility

19:52when it comes to voting.

19:54And it needs to be a priority in how we will remove barriers

20:03and fill the gaps so that everybody's voice is heard

20:10Thank you.

20:13Thanks, Jeanette, appreciate you sharing your comments.

20:15And as people share, you'll see that I'll also add note

20:20to our document.

20:21And so if you ever need me to change something,

20:26I'll just do my best to capture in short form

20:28what people share.

20:29So I've added issues around accessibility,

20:32it needs to be a priority.

20:36Laura Lai.

20:40I'm one of many people in Guelph

20:41who can't currently independently vote.

20:45There's no accessible voting option

20:47for blind low vision screen reader users,

20:49people who can't hold a pen.

20:52We can't independently mark our ballots.

20:54So for me, voting is hoping that a stranger

20:56marks my ballot the way I've asked them to

20:59with no way to double check it.

21:02This is understandably frustrating for me

21:04because I've been involved in discussions with the city

21:07about accessible voting since 2014,

21:10fighting for my right to vote.

21:12And every year, I still have had no way to vote.

21:17Well, in 2014, they gave us online voting,

21:19but they've taken it away again.

21:20So it's just really frustrating that a decade later,

21:24I'm still having this conversation.

21:26Thanks.

21:28Thank you for sharing that, Laura Lai.

21:30I've wrote down that there's no option

21:32for some people to vote independently

21:34and it's frustrating.

21:39Chris.

21:42Hey, thank you.

21:44I was thinking it through and I have no real

21:48personal experiences, but having worked

21:50in the field for a number of years,

21:52I understand that as Laura Lai had said,

21:55it's a real degradation of your autonomy

21:59when you have to ask someone,

22:00whether it be staff member, volunteer,

22:03or a stranger who will put your vote down.

22:08Nobody else has to encounter that,

22:10aside from people with disabilities.

22:13And that is baked into a larger conversation

22:16that is more directly along human rights

22:19and what those rights are.

22:21And so you're looking at services,

22:23goods and services and so on,

22:24and how we access them.

22:27And also just basic rights in terms of being Ontario citizens,

22:31in terms of being Canadian citizens,

22:33this trumps all that.

22:36So my main concern is that people will keep voting

22:40along those lines and that degrades the autonomy

22:43that everybody should have.

22:47Absolutely, thanks for sharing that, Chris.

22:50And certainly it is a human rights issue.

22:58Donna, would you like to share next?

23:01Yeah, I would just like to say

23:02that I did not get an email either.

23:06Okay.

23:07Thanks for letting us know.

23:09So I'll just note for Leanne,

23:12if there's a way for us to correct that.

23:16And if not, we will still have this space

23:19for everyone to share vocally.

23:27Donna, did you want to share an experience with the group

23:30that you're aware of?

23:32The only experience I've had personally is that

23:36physically I have some mobility issues

23:39that's physically difficult to sometimes I can get there,

23:43but it's a long way, for example, from the parking lot

23:46to into the building or an auditorium or somewhere.

23:51And in the past, I also asked people when they've told me

23:55to leave by the back door, whatever,

23:57and it ends up being a lot farther away,

24:00asking to meet, asking to leave differently,

24:04like by the entrance, for example.

24:07I don't think it's as if people are not aware of that,

24:11those conditions.

24:16Thanks, Donna.

24:17Yeah, I can see how that would be difficult as well

24:20when you're being asked to use a door different from everyone else.

24:24It might not feel the same or not be the same experience.

24:29I think did, is it Kathleen in the room?

24:32Did you have your hand up?

24:34Is it Kathy or Kathleen?

24:36It's either.

24:37It's just the same.

24:39So, Kathy.

24:41Okay, great.

24:43Just going off and what Laura was talking about,

24:45I'm in the same position.

24:47Does it take a rain or add to the first and most

24:50stressively experience?

24:52It's not efficient to the entire program

24:55or the entire methodology of voting.

24:58It backs things up for others as well.

25:01But then it also becomes a spectacle and it perpetuates

25:04stigmas and stereotypes that we're trying to erase.

25:07And it's then left with an individual feeling uncomfortable

25:10within their own community because it's a code based.

25:13So the individual, like myself and my experience leaves

25:16not only stressed out by the experience,

25:19but also insecure about the relationships or spectacle

25:22that they have made that others did see to be able to put

25:26those stigmas and stereotypes on that specific individual

25:29and if they only need to from your community.

25:32Thanks for sharing that, Kathy.

25:34I think we've heard, I think I'm hearing that theme

25:39from others as well as around that kind of lack of

25:42dignity and the way that we can perpetuate

25:45stigma in these situations.

25:48I'm going to just pop over to our responses here.

25:52I'm going to copy them in the chat.

25:54I'm going to copy them in the chat.

25:56I'm going to copy them in the chat.

25:58I'm going to copy them in the chat.

26:00I'm going to copy them in the chat.

26:02I'm going to copy them in the chat.

26:05I'm going to copy them in and then I'll read them out.

26:15I have limited mobility, and last municipal election,

26:18I had a hard time walking from the lot in the cold

26:21to the gym and to the polling booth.

26:24I've had issues with voting being inaccessible

26:27because of perfumes worn by participants and facilitators.

26:30I have only once or twice been able to vote

26:33completely independently, and that was online.

26:36and that was online. Every other method has had issues that have caused me to compromise my independence.

26:45Really appreciate you sharing these stories and I wanted to open this way to just help to ground

26:51us in you know why this conversation is so important and why the thoughts, perspectives

27:01of the AAC and determining the accessible voting methods why we're doing this which I think we're

27:10all probably quite aligned on it sounds like this is something that is really needed.

27:17Before we move on was did I miss anyone or was there anything else you wanted to add here?

27:30Sorry you're going to be moving to the attendees I see Donna's name and then mine.

27:34Oh yeah sorry I'm I wondered I should have clarified I wondered if the hands were just

27:40still up from before please do jump in Jeanette. I guess my question to you is the documents that

27:48you're generating here from the workshop are they going to be provided to the city verbatim or is

27:54it going to be part of a report? I might have to ask one of the staff to respond to that question

28:07and yeah go ahead Jean. Yeah I can respond to that everything will be provided verbatim from the

28:15facilitator and we'll take that back and bring that for the motion consideration as part of the

28:23December 9th meeting so we're receiving everything as is written today. Thank you for clarifying

28:30that I just wanted to add one one observation I think in your capture of some of the notes there is

28:38a mention of stripping individuals of their human rights that hasn't been captured

28:46and I don't see the loss of dignity which is something that is sort of foremost in in any

28:56sort of disability accommodations or accessibility so I just want to make sure that's captured

29:03because that was mentioned earlier. Thank you very much I appreciate that and I've added those

29:11pieces in and please you know also as we go through the rest of this workshop if there are other

29:16things we'll make sure we add them in. The meeting's also being recorded so that's recording of the

29:24verbatim responses accompanied some of these notes I'm taking I just really want the notes to help

29:31provide a secondary way to consume the information and so I've added those two pieces in thanks.

29:41Lorelai. Yeah my thought was along those lines but I wanted to just express and it's no no

29:48you know it's not meant to be an insult to you by any means as a facilitator or anything but just

29:55our our words and our thoughts and opinions on this matter are so crucial and important that they

30:01be directly what we're saying that I want to make sure that the city is leaning not on these notes

30:08because I don't think that these notes that are being taken like these are a facilitator who's coming

30:14into the space who's never met any of us and hasn't been a part of the many many many conversations

30:19we've had about this kind of trying to very quickly capture our thoughts and my thoughts I don't feel

30:26like we're exactly I would so much I would be so much more comfortable with the city leading on the

30:30recording of our verbatim responses as members rather than point form notes being taken by someone

30:36who's never met us and not been involved in this conversation with us yet and it's really no offense

30:42to you at all but like when I'm going on about I've been having this conversation for 10 years and

30:46it's about autonomy but also whether or not I can verify and double check my vote and then

30:52the the note that gets taken is some people can't vote independently and that's frustrating

30:56like that's not actually exactly what I was saying and it's not your fault but I just

31:01I don't think these notes should be the resource for the city I think our words should be the resource

31:07Thanks Lorela I appreciate you sharing that and and I caught a little glimmer

31:13in your eye from when I took that note and I you know I thought I I know I didn't get exactly what

31:20you were saying there's so much experience wrapped up in these brief kind of point form notes that

31:27I'm added and that's not loss on me let's try to use these as bullet point to make sure you know

31:36we've captured some highlights but I've noted here that we've asked that the staff please

31:43lean on the recording and not on these notes for some of the the next steps and thank you

31:53sorry just to interrupt I think we need to be explicit here because I think many of us feel

31:58the way that chair Root had just mentioned I would not put the words lean on but actually

32:04explicitly say use the recording verbatim to guide sorry to be so nitpicky but it's important

32:15yeah no and I believe I believe at the end of the meeting Leanne correct me if I'm wrong but

32:19will there be time for us because this is a real AAC meeting can we make motions because I can't

32:25put forward a motion but that would be something that someone could perhaps put forward a motion

32:29saying we move that the city not use these notes and rather lean on the recording from this discussion

32:36so because of the nature of the workshop we're not permitted to make a motion at the end of

32:45this workshop however you'll see and you you did see in the information that was sent out before

32:53a couple of different versions of what could be the motion with blanks to be filled in

33:00and then so what staff will do is they will generate that draft motion as they always do for

33:07the December meeting and then the AAC will go ahead and have a discussion in December and

33:14you know make the motion that they that they see wants to make at that point

33:19okay so no motions today motions in December fine gotcha thank you great that's a really great

33:27segue then for me to pass things over to Jennifer for a moment just to share a bit of a context

33:35setting presentation kind of recap where you've come in the last year as a committee and where

33:41we're going with this work here today and once after she's presented we'll take some time to

33:48discuss you know what you heard and how you feel about it and any questions that have surfaced

33:58all right thank you sarah and cool i heard he's getting some feedback from my audio

34:03can you hear me okay or i can change my headset is any weird feedback just let me know and i'm

34:12happy to change that sorry i'm getting a little bit of it here's my apologies and hear a little bit

34:18of it the room might as well pick you up okay that's that's that's that's that's

34:39you know that's worse one second yeah you're good yeah okay can everyone hear me okay

34:50well yeah my apologies off off of the presentation now i'll speak up a little bit louder okay okay

35:09thank you everyone for joining us today um as sarah and nicole mentioned earlier today is really

35:15about listening learning and hearing from all views so i don't want to take up too much time

35:20we just wanted to take a moment to provide a little bit of context as to where we are at

35:25in the engagement process and next steps just to to guide and give you a sense of where we're

35:30going after today so after going through the 2022 election process we learned a few things and we

35:40certainly learned a lot about how we can work with this committee to better engage and have a bit

35:45of a different process certainly one of the first things we learned is that we need more time for

35:50engagement and we need more time to consider options before going to council and that's really

35:55the nature of why we're meeting so early in this process in 2023 before 2026 we also learned that

36:03members of the aac don't always feel heard um we want to make sure that there's a good opportunity

36:10to build trust and ensure that every voice is heard and that we're including all of that

36:14transparently as part of the council decision-making process and we also heard concerns about uh you

36:21know from members and from our community that not all individuals feel like they have the ability

36:26to vote independently and that's certainly something we take very seriously and we appreciate all

36:31the feedback we're receiving as part of this process throughout this year that's one of the

36:37reasons that we have this full year engagement process and you'll see in a moment you know from

36:41April right until the end of this year we'll be meeting with you and discussing this project with

36:44you um and that was brought forward in February of 2022 if that's a helpful reference so where

36:54have we been in 2023 um this is a pretty full year engagement plan that we've been working on

37:01so during April uh we met with you and we talked about um voting method options uh accessible voting

37:09service enhancement options that we've identified and we conducted a survey with you after that

37:14session to identify if there was anything additional we should include as part of our

37:18research to bring back to you we didn't receive uh any additional options at that point uh so we

37:24went forward ahead of the August engagement with you and we conducted research some comparator

37:29benchmarking engaged with community stakeholders and in August we brought all of that back to you

37:35for information uh in August we also brought decision-making criteria that we will consider

37:42leading into the 2026 decision we received feedback from you in the August meeting with

37:48that as well and all of that um all of the information findings all the feedback we received

37:53so far was part of the information package for today's meeting and then today we're here for

38:01the workshop and we're really here to engage and receive feedback um as we consider options and we

38:08note priorities ahead of the December meeting kind forward later this year so where are we now

38:20um hopefully we'll be able to everyone had the opportunity to read to the package I appreciate

38:24there's a lot of information in there prior to the meeting today but it is a great reference if

38:27you're looking at those materials as we discuss things um with Sarah Nicole's help we're going

38:34to be considering you know lived experiences a variety of criteria and our goal really for

38:40today is to consider each alternative voting method and create a list of forces that attract

38:44and of forces that repel and to get that sense of prioritization or um you know the range of

38:50options really that the committee is is looking for two for 2026 these are the methods that we're

39:00here to evaluate and I'll acknowledge that you know most of our engagement so far has been on

39:05two things and this is where we will be bringing back to council on two things there's the alternative

39:10voting methods which are listed here on the slide and there's also the voting enhancements

39:15which typically are more of an in-person experience so today we're really going to be deep diving

39:21and focusing our conversation on the alternative voting methods um we appreciate in the interest

39:26of time we want to give a lot of full some conversation to that as that's the item that

39:30council is required to make a decision on within a certain time frame so we'll focus our conversation

39:36there today but I will make a note at the end of the presentation there is still

39:40lots of opportunities and options for the committee to provide feedback on the voting

39:44enhancements and so I'll note that at the end today as well. Can you please read out those

39:49alternative methods? Strengths. Absolutely so the the voting methods that we're going to be looking at

39:54today is the vote from home voting method uh internet voting

40:00vote by mail, vote by phone, and remote accessible vote by mail.

40:12Next steps, really today we're here to identify priorities

40:16that can inform a draft motion for the December 19th.

40:19So I'll be careful with that wording there

40:21because they appreciate the conversation

40:23we've noted earlier about we're not making a motion

40:25or anything today.

40:27This is just to help staff collect information

40:29and help start that draft motion for the next meeting.

40:35In December we'll seek the committee's motion

40:37following that workshop.

40:38So that's the next step opportunity for us

40:41to really hear a formalized motion from the committee.

40:44And that motion will be transparently shared and included

40:46as with all of the feedback we have from the committee

40:49as part of the Q2 2024 report to council.

40:54That's the deadline they've given us to report back.

40:56So all of that will be transparently included

40:58and shared as part of that report.

41:04I just want to acknowledge for a moment,

41:06as it stands, we don't know what the staff recommendation

41:09is going to be.

41:10That's not something we discussed or decided.

41:12We wanted to take a moment to do all of our research,

41:16hear all of the feedback before considering options.

41:21And in saying that our intention really is to paint

41:24a picture of our council in our report next year.

41:27We're gonna have all of the options,

41:29all of the opportunities,

41:30all of the risk and potential considerations,

41:33all of the staffing, all of the financial requirements.

41:37They really have a menu, so to speak,

41:40of all of the options that they can choose from

41:43when we present that.

41:44Our intention is to provide materials

41:47similar to what you have in your information package today.

41:49We'll be providing the same context

41:51and the same considerations to council.

41:53We want to be consistent in saying that we don't have

41:58our staff recommendation ready yet,

42:00or we haven't considered what our recommendation will be.

42:03I'll also just note that we don't know yet

42:06if our intention really is to align

42:08with what the committee recommends

42:10and what their motion provides.

42:11But if our information or if our final recommendation

42:15should be any different, our intention again

42:17is to provide everything transparently to council.

42:20We'll be considering, as you've seen,

42:22decision-making criteria around accessibility,

42:25around providing the most independent voting experience

42:31as part of our decision-making criteria,

42:33but we just want to acknowledge that the intention

42:35is to fully transparently provide all information

42:38regardless of what final recommendations are made.

42:46Before you move on, can I ask a question?

42:50When you're looking at the various criteria

42:52and the factors that's gonna inform the outcome,

42:55where does cost weigh into it?

42:57Are we going to be using costs for different options

43:01as a factor, or are we going to be accessible

43:07whatever the cost?

43:11So I think it's important to reflect on the fact

43:14that that's not a decision of staff.

43:17Our role is to present all options with all costs

43:21and consider how that could impact our current budget

43:27because we only have the dollars

43:28that council has already approved.

43:30So our intention is to map out the cost and consideration

43:34of all of the options available

43:37and then have council decide should they choose

43:39additional options beyond our current funding scope,

43:44they can allocate additional dollars, staffing, et cetera.

43:48To that, we want to make sure that our intention

43:50is to provide every option that we can,

43:53but it's not a decision of staff to increase budget dollars

43:56or financial resources in order to provide additional things.

44:00So really, I think the intention is to be

44:02as transparent and open as possible.

44:04And that's ultimately part of council's decision

44:07on what methods they approve.

44:09Right, thank you.

44:10So the staff report where the recommendation

44:15will be provided with the various options,

44:18that'll be made and forwarded to AFC before council

44:22or how will that be in that way

44:25that you're saying transparent to us?

44:28Absolutely.

44:29So we can't provide the council report prior

44:35to it going to council or the members of the public

44:38in the sense that, I mean, we don't do that

44:40for any of the committees

44:41and it would provide a very confusing environment

44:43if members of council or the mayor asked questions

44:47for a report they didn't actually have yet.

44:50Our processes we've had with other reports

44:52would be to, through the liaison for this committee

44:57or at an upcoming meeting if we were attending

44:59would be to notify well in advance what agenda

45:03it's going to be on, notify committee members

45:06when as part of the report cycle and the agenda cycle

45:10that information would become public

45:12and then everyone receives information

45:15at the exact same time.

45:17Thanks for the clarification.

45:19Yeah.

45:21Okay, thank you.

45:22I appreciate the questions.

45:25And I'll just kind of wrap up by saying,

45:27when this does go to council, we're very flexible

45:29on how we present this and something

45:31that we'll have an ongoing dialogue and conversation with.

45:35It doesn't just have to be city clerk's office staff

45:38presenting on this item.

45:40We can work with the Ann and Sarah

45:43as part of accessibility services.

45:44We can also work with chair route as part of the process

45:47to develop a bit of a joint presentation

45:50such that everyone is at the table

45:52and council is hearing from all of the voices

45:54as part of that presentation.

45:55So I'll put that out there.

45:57And that's something certainly we can discuss further

45:59as we plan for next year.

46:03So, Rafa, I'll say thank you for your time.

46:07Really, this is kind of the caveat on up here.

46:10If we don't get to accessible voting enhancements today,

46:16we're certainly open.

46:17Our intention really is to provide every accessible voting

46:20enhancement that we can.

46:23And we'll frame information on that in the report to council.

46:27But because the accessible voting enhancements

46:29are approved by council, they're a staff decision.

46:34We're happy to receive any feedback or impact

46:36that you have on that.

46:37You can certainly include recommendations around that

46:40in your motion if you choose to on December 19th.

46:44But you're also welcome to share any information

46:46or feedback you have with Carrie, myself, Leanne.

46:51Feel free to email, call us.

46:53We're happy to set up a meeting

46:55or a time to discuss that with you.

46:56If you feel like a specific enhancement

47:00would be something that would greatly benefit

47:03a member of such a community.

47:04But beyond that, our intention really

47:06is to provide every option we can

47:08if we don't get to speak to that today.

47:11And I'll say thank you with that.

47:13I will stop sharing my screen

47:15and I'll turn it back over to Sarah Nicole.

47:21Thank you.

47:22Thanks, Jennifer.

47:23I think that's a helpful journey to be reminded

47:27of where we've come from, where we are now, where we're going.

47:30And I wanted to give a moment for each of you

47:33to just take a second to process what you've heard

47:37with three questions that I'll pose to you.

47:40And you can, again, use the link that Leanne will email out

47:45or you can share your thoughts out loud or both.

47:49And I'm interested to hear what did you hear

47:54as a way to kind of clarify and reiterate,

47:58understand what you heard Jen say,

48:01how do you feel about what you heard

48:04and what questions are still lingering for you?

48:08We won't answer those questions today,

48:10but we'll collect those questions

48:12so that they can be answered at your next meeting.

48:17This is just to give us sort of a brief moment to pause

48:21and check understanding with one another.

48:24So I'll give a few minutes of quiet

48:27so that you can either navigate to the link

48:30to add your responses

48:31or think about what you might wanna say.

50:02Okay, let's start with Lorelai.

50:06Thank you.

50:08Yeah, what I heard was staff talking about

50:12the staff experience so far of the conversations we had

50:16after the last election,

50:19prior to the last election,

50:21I heard about the staff timelines.

50:26I think the main thing I wanna hit on

50:28is how I feel about what I heard.

50:31I do feel a little invalidated

50:35that we are hearing a very staff driven one sided

50:40because there's a lot that happened over the last year

50:43of trying to figure out election results

50:45and things like that,

50:46that I'm hoping will also be part of the consideration.

50:53It's just seemed so far to be a very city of wealth

50:57centered conversation

50:59and a city staff centered conversation.

51:01And I'm having some hopeful,

51:05like some gentle hopefulness

51:07that we will turn the conversation to be centered

51:09around the voices of the people here

51:11who are disabled and need access to voting.

51:15Also the people here who have been on this journey

51:18for a number of years with the city

51:20and have been involved in the process

51:22and who felt very betrayed by the process last year.

51:30Comments like we didn't have sufficient time

51:35that were made in the presentation.

51:37That's not how it felt.

51:40Last year it felt like there was a lot of time

51:42and staff reported that they had enough time.

51:45And then when council said,

51:46okay, we might go ahead with this option,

51:48staff said, actually we've changed our mind.

51:50We don't have enough time.

51:52So I just wanna make sure that the whole conversation

52:00isn't driven by staff.

52:02And that I wanna make sure the other members here,

52:05and I'll mention it at the AAC meeting

52:07that we have later as well.

52:08Remember that staff drafting a motion for us

52:11doesn't mean that has to be the motion that we put forward.

52:16And that we get to write our own motions.

52:18They don't even have to be a little bit

52:20like the staff motions.

52:21I just wanna make sure that our voices are centered

52:25in this conversation.

52:27I don't really have any questions.

52:29Thanks.

52:32Thank you, Laura.

52:34This is exactly the space

52:36wanting to hear your thoughts on this.

52:38And then why we've asked this question.

52:42I've tried to note, but again,

52:45the verbatim recording will be taken into consideration.

52:49But if you do notice anything I've written

52:51that you don't like, please let me know

52:53and I can change it.

52:57Chris.

52:58Yeah, thank you.

53:01I just wanna note that,

53:02looking at this from a standpoint of barriers,

53:08there's still barriers inherent within that system

53:10of trying to get open spaces for people to vote.

53:14And what that represents to me is sort of a liability

53:17around the potential for

53:22liability.

53:25The Ontario government had said about 10 years ago,

53:28over 10 years ago, that things will be accessible by 2025

53:31and so on.

53:33And we're still working around these conversations.

53:35And so I really wanna hit it home

53:37that this isn't only a nice to do,

53:41it is absolutely a human rights requirement

53:45of a municipality, of a provincial government,

53:47of a federal government to allow for its citizens

53:50to be able to vote.

53:52And if they can't, to provide accommodations

53:54along those lines, to make things as accessible as possible.

53:57So I heard words about enhancements.

53:59Enhancements is a good term,

54:00but it doesn't matter back to any piece of legislation

54:02that's human rights-based.

54:04So we're talking about accommodations and accessibility,

54:05which are rooted in conversations

54:08that cover human rights.

54:10We're talking about a barrier that exists

54:12that we've been able to articulate

54:14over the last little while.

54:17And that gravity of that situation

54:19still doesn't seem to be taking hold.

54:21So I just wanna be clear

54:22that this is actually a human rights consideration

54:24if someone is prevented from voting

54:27by a barrier that could have been easily removed

54:30than that into itself represents a liability to the city,

54:32both financially and reputationally.

54:39Thanks, Chris.

54:40I've tried to capture and brief what you've shared about,

54:44this isn't only a nice to do,

54:46it's a human rights requirement

54:49that governments allow for citizens to vote

54:52and that enhancements is good,

54:55but it doesn't really go far enough.

54:57It doesn't really capture the gravity of the situation

55:00and liability should be a motivating force as well.

55:06Does that do it?

55:08I must say that liability should be a motivating force.

55:11It should be a factor in the decisions

55:12that are made that affect us.

55:13I think that that's something

55:14that's sort of skirted the conversation for a while.

55:16But I mean, with the other points of view that I raised,

55:19this has been articulated before,

55:22the need to want to vote

55:24and the right of us to be able to fill that responsibility.

55:29So I think that liabilities part of the equation

55:33in terms of looking at this as a value.

55:39Thanks, Chris.

55:41We'll go to Jeanette,

55:43just since we haven't heard from her yet

55:45and then back to Lorelai.

55:48Yeah, I wanna, I suppose,

55:52just say I feel what Chair Root had said.

55:55I wasn't aware of the historical missteps.

56:01Let's just put it that way.

56:04Kinda horrified that we're here 10 years later.

56:08You don't need to write that.

56:09I think what I'd like to say is that

56:12the solution can't be staff-driven.

56:15The staff will facilitate us and others

56:20in a disability working group

56:22that is recognized by the city.

56:24It must be informed by this group.

56:27It can't be adapted or enhanced.

56:32It should entirely be driven by those people in this city

56:35who make their voices heard.

56:38And then staff should propose the recommendation

56:41that is the best fit and has been recommended

56:44by this group and others like this group, period.

56:51Thanks, Jeanette. Thank you.

56:52Yeah, what I'm hearing you say is that

56:55the solution must absolutely not be driven by staff.

56:59It must be driven by this group and by others

57:03who are expressing voices in the community

57:06who have experiences to share.

57:12Yeah, bottom line being that staff are here to facilitate.

57:16And yeah, move the process forward

57:17to where it needs to go for decision makers

57:20to make an informed decision.

57:22Thank you.

57:23Thanks, Jeanette.

57:26Laura Lai.

57:28And then I'm gonna check on the text comments

57:30that people would have added.

57:32And Ted has had to pass his hand up as well.

57:35So just wanted to know that.

57:38Like physically, physically Ted.

57:42Sorry, who was that?

57:43Ted, I had his hand up physically.

57:46Okay, Laura Lai and then Ted.

57:49I just wanted to kind of bounce off

57:51of what Chris said earlier

57:53and maybe highlight that.

57:55I know that during these conversations last year,

57:59there were a group of people,

58:01and I was one of these people.

58:04I'm not gonna say who the other people were,

58:05but who actually did meet

58:08with the Ontario Human Rights Commission

58:10about the fact that we cannot independently vote.

58:13And we were told that we do have

58:17a case to be made for the fact

58:21that the city is failing their duty to accommodate

58:25because they've been made aware for so many years

58:28that there are people who cannot independently vote

58:32and they've been offered multiple options

58:35to allow us to vote.

58:36And none of those options have been used,

58:39but precedent has been set

58:41by that the city of Guelph did use

58:43those types of options in 2014.

58:46So this is a very real situation

58:49that Chris is talking about.

58:51That group of people, myself included,

58:53decided last year in Good Faith

58:55to try to work with the city instead

58:57because we felt like we were making some progress.

59:01It's now been,

59:03it's going to have been more than 10 years

59:05since this conversation started with me involved in it

59:08by the time the next election happens.

59:10So I don't see that Good Faith type of discussion

59:15being able to continue repeatedly forever.

59:30Yeah, Ted.

59:36Can we skip off?

59:37Sarah Nicole, please.

59:41We didn't hear you, Sarah Nicole.

59:44Oh, I just invited Ted to share his thoughts.

59:48You are on mute.

1:00:07Ted, you're on mute.

1:00:10We can't hear you.

1:00:14The microphone at the top,

1:00:16if you can click on it,

1:00:18that will make your microphone live again.

1:00:35The microphone, it almost looks like a speaker.

1:00:46We can't unmute it for you, unfortunately.

1:00:48I wish we could, but we can't.

1:01:00It looks like a speaker.

1:01:10I'm gonna just share my screen.

1:01:11If you have a keyboard in front of you,

1:01:14there's a button on the bottom left that says CTRL.

1:01:18If you hold that button down

1:01:19and also hold down the space bar at the same time,

1:01:22hold them down the whole time you're talking,

1:01:25that should work, and then let go.

1:01:30So a button that says CTRL on your keyboard

1:01:33in the bottom left-hand corner,

1:01:35and the long button that's the space bar.

1:01:38If you hold those down both at the same time while talking.

1:01:50Yes, we hear you perfect.

1:01:51Go ahead.

1:01:56Oh, you have to keep holding them down

1:01:58while you talk though, Ted.

1:02:00So press those two buttons again,

1:02:01and then just keep holding them down

1:02:03the whole time you're talking,

1:02:04and let go when you're done talking.

1:02:10So are you talking to me?

1:02:13Yes.

1:02:13Yes, that's working now.

1:02:14We can hear you now.

1:02:18Okay, I'm really sorry.

1:02:21I guess I wasn't really hearing.

1:02:23If I was being on here.

1:02:26But anyway, I was just thinking that it's council

1:02:31that has to really understand what's happening.

1:02:34And I'm not sure if they do know what's happening

1:02:38with when it comes to voting procedures.

1:02:42I think the staff, maybe it's a bit of a problem,

1:02:48but I think more than that, it's the council that's a problem.

1:02:53You just don't know.

1:02:56Anyway, that's all I really had to say.

1:03:01Thanks, Ted.

1:03:05What I'm hearing you say is that council

1:03:07has to understand what's happening.

1:03:10You're not sure that they do understand.

1:03:13Staff may be part of that problem

1:03:15in translating that message,

1:03:18but council might also be part of that problem

1:03:21just in not understanding the complexities

1:03:25or not understanding the real issues.

1:03:32That's correct.

1:03:38Did you hear that?

1:03:39Yes, thank you.

1:03:41Yes. Okay, great.

1:03:42Yes, thank you.

1:03:43I think I found my microphone.

1:03:45Yay.

1:03:46Ha ha ha ha.

1:03:47And thanks for the tips there, Laura Lai too.

1:03:50I don't know some of those shortcuts,

1:03:52so that's handy to know.

1:03:54Thank you, Laura Lai.

1:03:55Okay.

1:03:56I'm gonna just check on to see if anybody

1:03:58submitted responses via the survey.

1:04:02It looks like we have one,

1:04:04so let me just pull those comments over.

1:04:07In response to what did you hear,

1:04:10providing context to why we are discussing this,

1:04:15how do you feel about what you heard?

1:04:17Not sure yet that our voices will produce

1:04:20any significant changes.

1:04:24I'm just gonna give me a second

1:04:25to just bring this over here for that transparency piece.

1:04:29So not sure yet that our voices

1:04:31will produce any significant changes.

1:04:34I feel that that's a theme that I'm hearing

1:04:37in some of the other comments

1:04:39that folks have shared as well.

1:04:41Is that fair to say?

1:04:44Yeah, seeing some head nods.

1:04:47And I'll just pull over this other comment as well.

1:04:52Okay.

1:04:58Okay, so I do think that, you know,

1:05:00it's important for us to start out

1:05:03with some of this context, these thoughts and feelings.

1:05:06I know there's a lot of history here.

1:05:08That's important for us to be able to put out

1:05:12into this space before we move into talking

1:05:14about those specific voting methods.

1:05:18Is there anything else folks would like to add here

1:05:22before we move into talking

1:05:23about the specific voting methods?

1:05:45Okay.

1:05:48All right, well, let's get into it then,

1:05:50because I really do want us to have time

1:05:52to hear all of your thoughts on each of these methods

1:05:57and we're gonna move through them one by one.

1:06:00Before we dive in, I wanted to just share a little bit

1:06:05of context around how I've organized this activity.

1:06:11Did any of you do weird things when you were a kid?

1:06:16Kind of a broad general question,

1:06:18but one of the weird little things I used to do

1:06:23all the time when I was a kid,

1:06:25I love to take two magnets off the fridge

1:06:28and then try to force them together.

1:06:30You know that feeling when they just won't connect

1:06:34because you don't have the right forces

1:06:37attracting each other.

1:06:39That's kind of the analogy that I wanna use

1:06:42for part of this discussion today.

1:06:45We'll call this sort of a force field analysis

1:06:49and we'll take a look at each voting method

1:06:52and try to jot down from your perspective,

1:06:56what are the forces that attract us to this voting method

1:07:01and what are the forces that repel us

1:07:05from this voting method?

1:07:06And there may very well be both for some of these

1:07:10or there may be only one for some of these,

1:07:15but I do wanna capture all of your thoughts.

1:07:24At the end of this discussion,

1:07:26we'll do kind of like a scoring that helps us to look

1:07:30at how strong each of the forces are,

1:07:32but I'm gonna explain that when we get to that point.

1:07:36For now, all you need to know is that we wanna try

1:07:39to capture thoughts on what are the forces

1:07:42that attract us to this method

1:07:44and what are the forces that repel us from that?

1:07:51We're going to just have this be discussion in the room,

1:07:54so there won't be a link sent for this one.

1:07:57And I'm just going to do my best to really note

1:08:00as accurately as possible your thoughts

1:08:04and check in with you to make sure

1:08:06that I'm understanding you along the way.

1:08:09Laura, I did you have a question before we get into this?

1:08:13I'm not sure I understand the kind of assignment,

1:08:16but it sounds like you're saying you want us to list

1:08:19things we like about accessible voting options

1:08:22and things that are negatives about accessible voting options

1:08:26or reasons that it might not work.

1:08:29And I don't know how appropriate it is to ask a bunch

1:08:31of equity seeking individuals who are here to request

1:08:35that our needs be met to argue against our own needs.

1:08:39So I'm not sure if that's what you're saying

1:08:41when you say forces that repel.

1:08:43It sounds like you're asking us to kind of brainstorm

1:08:45and think up reasons why these voting options

1:08:47might not be a good idea.

1:08:48And I just don't feel like that's super ethical

1:08:51from a diversity, equity and inclusion lens.

1:08:55Yeah, thanks, Laura Lai.

1:08:56And I do, I think I just really want to explore anything

1:09:00that's on your mind, not force you to bring anything

1:09:03to the surface that's not on your mind.

1:09:05And so you may very well say that, you know,

1:09:09there are no forces on the repelling side of things.

1:09:13And that's the completely acceptable response,

1:09:16but I just want to create space for any

1:09:19and all thoughts that people have.

1:09:23There are no, like I'm not sitting here saying

1:09:26there's a right or wrong answer.

1:09:28I just want to hear what your thoughts are.

1:09:31So you are asking us to come up with reasons

1:09:33that accessible voting options might be bad.

1:09:39I guess if we're looking at prioritizing

1:09:42what you want the city to do, like your direction,

1:09:49then, you know, we would need to, I think,

1:09:52but let work through this with me, okay?

1:09:53I'm willing to be wrong on this.

1:09:55I'm so willing to be wrong.

1:09:58But I think that part of this exercise

1:10:01is moving to prioritize what your recommendation is

1:10:06to counsel.

1:10:07And so I want an exercise that can help us to think through

1:10:13all of the aspects of each of these voting methods.

1:10:19Do others want to weigh in on this as well?

1:10:22Like let's just chat it through.

1:10:23And if we need to adapt this, we can,

1:10:26like I'm willing to be wrong on this.

1:10:28Shannon is-

1:10:29I just would hate for this to, oh yeah, sorry, go ahead.

1:10:32I was just gonna say I'd hate for this to go to council

1:10:34and say we have-

1:10:35Yeah, we don't wanna go sideways.

1:10:36There's a bunch of reasons that this didn't, you know.

1:10:41I guess so my comment is an observation.

1:10:45If I am looking at our goal,

1:10:49our goal is to provide accessible voting for all in Guelph.

1:10:55When I look at different options,

1:10:58I look at whether or not this meets the goal

1:11:00or it does not meet the goal.

1:11:02And then another column could be

1:11:04why does it not meet the goal?

1:11:06I think that would be a more focused strategic way

1:11:10of getting answers from this group.

1:11:13Go back to your goal.

1:11:18Thank you.

1:11:19So one suggestion is let's scrap the analogy

1:11:22on the fourth field analysis and just discuss on one hand,

1:11:27you know how-

1:11:27I don't know why I sometimes hear Sarah

1:11:29and then I don't hear Sarah,

1:11:31but yeah, I just wanted to add,

1:11:34if you don't mind to what was just said

1:11:37and we do this kind of exercise at the university too.

1:11:40For instance, we're trying to make sure

1:11:42that our admissions practices are accessible to everyone

1:11:46and every option has its down points, right?

1:11:52So what we do is we look at, you know,

1:11:56what's the plus side of using this method?

1:11:59What's a potential thing that would be,

1:12:04make it inaccessible for someone?

1:12:06And how can we work on that?

1:12:08Like how can that be fixed, right?

1:12:10So I think instead of seeing it as a, you know, deal breaker,

1:12:14more of an opportunity to say, okay, this might come up.

1:12:18So what can we do to make sure

1:12:20that it's not going to have a negative impact?

1:12:26So would it be fair to say looking at kind of

1:12:29what some of the challenges might be with some of the methods?

1:12:33Is that what I'm hearing you say, Elizabeth?

1:12:39Yeah, that's what I mean.

1:12:40Okay.

1:12:41I mean, it's good for us.

1:12:42Like nothing's going to be perfect, right?

1:12:44But we can decide together what we feel would be the most

1:12:49accessible for the most number of people

1:12:51or maybe like more than one strategy

1:12:56for different populations.

1:12:59But we don't have to choose just one.

1:13:00We can say that we recommend all of the voting enhancements.

1:13:03So I don't understand why the city would come here

1:13:06and fish for us to give them reasons.

1:13:08Whenever year they come to us with a ton of reasons

1:13:11that it won't work, it won't work, it won't work.

1:13:14Our job is to come with our actual experiences

1:13:16and our needs where we're an equity seeking group.

1:13:20So I don't think it's our job to come up with the reasons

1:13:22it might not work.

1:13:24Okay, yeah.

1:13:25So I really just want to provide a structure

1:13:28for you to have this conversation to explore

1:13:31and express everything you want to

1:13:34within each of these methods.

1:13:36And so I'm wondering if maybe we scrapped the framework

1:13:40altogether and we just hear people's thoughts

1:13:44around each one.

1:13:46We'll move through kind of one by one

1:13:48and just create space for anyone to say whatever

1:13:51they'd like to say about that method.

1:13:55So I've got some points here if I can.

1:13:59Please.

1:14:00So starting with the internet,

1:14:03we're trying to meet the goal with that,

1:14:04but the barrier is that some people with disabilities

1:14:09might not have access to the internet

1:14:10or might be using a secondary internet

1:14:14for purposes of communicating.

1:14:16So the pro is that it possibly could reach a wide population.

1:14:20The negative is that it doesn't capture everybody

1:14:24because of whatever financial resources people might have.

1:14:29From home, I know that that's another option

1:14:32that could be added at the echelon

1:14:34of potential accommodations for this,

1:14:38but I think it seems to me to be an important factor

1:14:44to realize that some of these mailboxes are centralized,

1:14:50people don't access to them from their homes.

1:14:52That might in itself become an unperceived barrier

1:14:57so just to highlight that factor.

1:15:01And mail, I'm not a pro on snail mail,

1:15:04so I'll leave that open to other people,

1:15:05but I think those first two are a good start.

1:15:08Chris, did I capture your thought in saying

1:15:12that internet voting is appealing

1:15:15because it reaches a wide group,

1:15:18but recognizing that a challenge could be

1:15:22not everyone has the resources to access.

1:15:26It won't be a one size fits all.

1:15:28Yeah, not everyone has the resources

1:15:30to have their own internet connection.

1:15:33And I'd like to be corrected if I'm wrong on this

1:15:38by other members of the committee

1:15:39because it is very important.

1:15:41If there's somebody you can chime in on the access

1:15:43of people with disabilities to the internet

1:15:45and just correct that if it is wrong,

1:15:47then I'd appreciate that greatly.

1:15:48Thanks.

1:15:56Lorelei and then Cameron.

1:15:59Yeah, so for internet voting, forces that attract,

1:16:06there are quite a few, there's the most,

1:16:10it's had the most positive response from voters in the past

1:16:13when asked by the city, their preferred method of voting.

1:16:18It is the most widely accessible to the most people.

1:16:24Nothing is going to be accessible to every group,

1:16:27which is why I believe we should be recommending

1:16:29a number of these options.

1:16:31No one of them is going to work for everyone.

1:16:34So Chris's point is very good one

1:16:36that not everyone has access to internet,

1:16:38not everyone has the ability to use the internet.

1:16:41Some folks find it confusing,

1:16:44but I don't want to list all the reasons things won't work.

1:16:47I would rather focus myself on the reasons that they will

1:16:50because we kind of need to provide people

1:16:54with a plethora of options so that they can say like,

1:16:59oh, I'm someone who uses a screen reader

1:17:01and can't go to in-person voting locations,

1:17:03so I can choose to use internet voting

1:17:05or remote accessible vote by mail.

1:17:07And I'm someone who can't use a computer

1:17:10or doesn't have access to the internet.

1:17:11I can vote by mail though,

1:17:13or I can go to a polling station.

1:17:15So I think all of them are going to have the same challenge,

1:17:20which is that no one option is going to work for everyone

1:17:24because that's not how accessibility works.

1:17:28But for internet voting, yes,

1:17:30it's the most widely accessible, it is the only option.

1:17:34That internet and remote accessible vote by mail

1:17:37are the only options that work for people like me.

1:17:42Vote from home is a good option for people

1:17:44who have environmental sensitivities,

1:17:47mental health concerns,

1:17:50but it can also cause barriers for people with mental illness.

1:17:55So people with agoraphobia, for example,

1:17:58may not want people coming to their home for them to vote.

1:18:03For vote by mail, it is difficult to get to a mailbox.

1:18:06For some people, the turnaround time isn't great.

1:18:09They often will lose your ballots in the mail

1:18:12and you never get your ballot.

1:18:13That's what's happened to me in the past.

1:18:16Remote accessible vote by mail is a great option

1:18:20for all of the reasons that I think internet voting

1:18:22is a great option.

1:18:25Remote accessible vote by mail being a system

1:18:27where you access your ballot online on a computer.

1:18:32You can use a screen reader

1:18:33or any other assistive technology to mark your ballot.

1:18:36Then you print your ballot off and sign it and mail it in.

1:18:40So it's a real paper ballot that can be recounted,

1:18:43which helps with staff's concerns about,

1:18:47computer election fraud,

1:18:49but not everyone has access to a printer.

1:18:53You can use the library,

1:18:55but there are reasons that that would be difficult for people.

1:18:59And vote by phone isn't accessible for everyone either.

1:19:03It can be confusing,

1:19:05but it is more accessible than a lot of things.

1:19:08So I would say that none of these options on their own

1:19:11are going to be enough.

1:19:12I think we're probably going to need at least three of these

1:19:15in order to accommodate the most people's needs

1:19:18and not leave anyone out.

1:19:20I can't see a situation where I can vote in this next election

1:19:24without either internet voting

1:19:25or remote accessible vote by mail.

1:19:28And I know there are other people like me

1:19:30who won't be able to vote without those options,

1:19:32but I'm sure there are also people who won't be able to vote

1:19:35without a vote from home option

1:19:37or a vote by phone or vote by mail.

1:19:39So sorry, I went through the whole list,

1:19:44but I've just been involved in this conversation so long.

1:19:47I have a lot of thoughts.

1:19:48No, that's okay.

1:19:50That's great.

1:19:50And we can move around and come back

1:19:53and continue to add more.

1:19:56I've made note on top here of the chart of some of the...

1:20:00items that kind of apply to the whole picture. And I wanted to make sure you know that I've

1:20:06captured this. No one option will work for everyone. We will need multiple options.

1:20:13We don't, you shared that you don't like the idea of naming reasons. People wouldn't want this

1:20:19option. I think it's important to note that that's an expressed concern. And none of these will be

1:20:26on their own. And then I've also noted that you said internet voting and vote accessible by mail.

1:20:33Those would be required by you or folks like you. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to vote again in this

1:20:39election. Not independently anyway. I don't know. Kathy in the room also has her hand up.

1:20:50Okay, we'll go to Cameron and then we'll go to Kathy in the room and then Elizabeth.

1:20:56Yeah. And feel free to, if you want to just start on one, you can and we can make our way down the

1:21:02list and come back to everyone. Or if you just want to get all your thoughts out at once, that's okay too.

1:21:08Yeah, so sorry about the bird. Internet, the internet voting is very accessible for a lot of

1:21:22people. It allows people to use many of the tools or hardware that they're already using in daily

1:21:29life to be able to access it. One of the points often brought up against it is the concern that

1:21:40computers can be hacked. And this isn't, Guelph isn't a big city. We wouldn't be a target for

1:21:51hackers. And if someone's going to go to the trouble to hack computers to

1:22:01commit election fraud, whether it's being done online or not isn't going to be a barrier to them

1:22:08if they are that determined. So we shouldn't let fear of an imaginary hacker

1:22:18prevent so many people from being able to access it. There's also the time investment. It is very

1:22:30quick and easy to vote online. And I know that this could also make it a lot easier for a lot of

1:22:39able-bodied people as well. Thank you. So I've noted here that this internet voting would allow

1:23:01tools and hardware people are already using, which is a major benefit. It's quick and easy,

1:23:08which will make things better for everybody, not just folks with an accessible accessibility need.

1:23:16And I've noted over here, but maybe I'll move this because I don't think you're saying that it's a

1:23:23challenge. You're saying we should stop thinking of it as a challenge. The idea that computers can

1:23:29be hacked, it's often brought up, but we shouldn't let the fear of that prevent us because if someone

1:23:34wants to hack an election, they're going to find a way to do it no matter what methods we're using.

1:23:41Have I captured you correctly? Yeah, that. Thank you. Okay, Kathy, in the room.

1:23:53I think this is a really great example of how language itself, in the comprehension of what

1:23:58accessibility is, and in fact a barrier on its own. And we're trying to translate what these real

1:24:03life perspective issues is into how society is built and constructed and being a physical and

1:24:12on paper issue. When I look at something like this, I'm unable to see this, so I'm sort of going

1:24:20off memory of what we kind of discussed. And I look at it as a terms of universal design. I would

1:24:27encourage all pieces of any type of accessible format to be used because it will in fact

1:24:35support somebody's needs opposed to they and them of voters' able body and voters disabled.

1:24:43It should be accessible to everyone because it's going to meet more needs than we recognize and

1:24:48acknowledge. But I think each and every specific topic or format for having accessibility voting

1:24:57comes with its own set of barriers. And my concern is that council will look at a specific barrier

1:25:03to sign up works for what they comprehend is what accessibility is. And just even the built

1:25:09environment can be adjusted to be an accessible place. Like that's not even on this list for

1:25:13accessibility. Whereas I personally would have, why would we do it as I would go online. I would

1:25:20write it, I would fill it out online. I wouldn't be able to without support still sign in a specific

1:25:27area because there's no indication bumps to do so. I would feel comfortable taking it into a

1:25:34quick drop zone for accessibility almost like in an airport when there's an accessibility line

1:25:39manned by individuals and supported by individuals to address people to accessibility places

1:25:46when asked. So it's really a mix and match of what's going to work for individuals and the

1:25:51access to the knowledge as well and comprehension of what their, what is set up and what the system

1:26:01actually looks like to be able to put in their vote. People's needs are not set in one road or one

1:26:10avenue. You're going to have to mix and match to be able to meet this need efficiently. And that's

1:26:16what my main goal would be. And voting itself is really sort of displayed as this large community

1:26:23piece. So suggesting that accessibility is all very isolated when the advertisement of voting is

1:26:33very community based. We want to make sure that this is like accessibility is for the entire

1:26:40community and is for built environment as well as online or virtual environment even on the phone.

1:26:48But I really want to get the council when getting these recommendations aren't sitting and saying

1:26:55okay that doesn't work or that costs too much money like that. Like take it so literally it's

1:26:59going to be have to be taken literally but also adjustments in that moment and recommendations

1:27:05in that moment of how to find those solutions. So I'm assuming that council doesn't have a vast

1:27:12background in accessibility barriers and solutions. So this is where I think that extra communication

1:27:19of when council hears information like this, what are their initial barriers to that and what solutions

1:27:27between our council, our supporting staff, city of Guelph and the council, the decision makers in

1:27:37the end, how are these solutions and recommendations made? Because it's certainly not as simple as

1:27:44the internet works or it doesn't work. Take it on or off the list. Well we gave you the list.

1:27:49You use the internet, it didn't work for you, we did our part. And I think that's where a lot of

1:27:54insecurities come from from our community. So I think it's a couple of extra steps that we need to

1:27:59do a couple of more listening on both sides and in between to really push that type of language to

1:28:06understand what accessibility solutions are and where exactly are the barriers. Because one group

1:28:13might feel like a barrier was lifted where the other group is really pushing to say that barriers

1:28:18don't go away ever. But we're going to continue to evolve and find solutions as these issues are evolving.

1:28:28Thanks Kathy. You've shared a lot of like really insightful and in-depth comments.

1:28:35And one of the things standing out to me, if I can try to summarize and you can let me know if I'm

1:28:42missing the mark, but is that we really need to be able to... Well there's a concern that there's a

1:28:51limitation in Council's ability to understand based on their perspectives and experiences. And so

1:28:59what are their barriers to understanding what they need to understand? Because just there's a risk in

1:29:06in just taking things literally as like checkbox this works, this doesn't work. It misses the nuances

1:29:13and am I capturing you correctly or have I missed something major?

1:29:24I think so. I think that again it's just something that we can record to see how that,

1:29:31not even what I said is articulated or translated, onto paper as a quote-unquote recommendation. So I

1:29:37think time will tell in this space, but it's important that it's recognized. I think that

1:29:43this is an us and them conversation and to make it a together conversation means a couple extra

1:29:49steps of active articulation and listening by both parties. More listening on all sides.

1:30:00Thanks. Let's go to Elizabeth. Thanks. I was just going to ask, I know the second

1:30:10part is vote from home, but I'm not clear on what that means because as far as I'm concerned,

1:30:17voting by internet could also be vote by home and vote by mail would also kind of be vote by home

1:30:23because you're at home when you're potentially doing it. So I'm not quite sure what that category

1:30:28actually means, but I just wanted to say something about the internet. I think where we are now with

1:30:36our ability in technology, it's going to make or could potentially make things so much more accessible

1:30:44for people even let's say at a senior's home. I think this was brought up in another meeting

1:30:50a while ago about having like a mobile kiosk like a money transaction where you have the internet set

1:31:04up in a kiosk with the voting and people just come and press what buttons they need to validate

1:31:12their identity and to vote. So potentially like we could put up voting machines all over to make it

1:31:21much more accessible to people rather than going to an actual voting station and they could do it

1:31:27online in their home or work or whatever. So it's potentially even more accessible if the hardware

1:31:38is there to support it. Thanks Elizabeth. Appreciate your comments. I've wrote down your

1:31:50thought around a mobile kiosk and making voting accessible in multiple areas. There was some

1:31:59documents that went out prior to this meeting that defined each of the pieces. I won't go into those

1:32:05right now, but if anyone else does feel the need to or want to expand, please do feel free to do

1:32:11that. Laura Lai. Yeah, just very quickly. Vote from home was the option where someone would show

1:32:20up at your door with a ballot and you would mark your ballot with their assistance and then they

1:32:25would collect your ballot and leave. That's what the vote from home meant. Oh, okay. Yeah, thanks.

1:32:32And I think it was someone on the spectrum. That's not something that I would want to.

1:32:36Same. Also autistic and also would hate that. Anyway, thank you. Yeah, I think I've put my finger

1:32:44on what is bothering me about this exercise, listening to others talk. And what's bothering

1:32:49me about this is it feels like we're being asked to maybe pick a few of these that are the best

1:32:56or which one of these is the best and like kind of compare and contrast all these different voting

1:33:01enhancements to help city staff decide which ones. And to me, that's frustrating because no

1:33:09two disabled people have the same needs. So we are all going to have different answers for which

1:33:14one is the most important for us and which one is absolutely necessary for us and which one would

1:33:19be an absolute impossible deal breaker for us like Elizabeth and I just showed a lot of people would

1:33:23love folk from home. I personally would never want someone. I don't I have PTSD too. I don't want

1:33:29someone showing up at my house. So I think my frustration is why do we have to pick and choose?

1:33:37Why can we not live in a city where someone like myself comes forward and says, hi, I can't vote.

1:33:43And the city says, cool, what are the barriers? Let's remove them. Let's not swap it out for

1:33:48another thing that's already helping other people like let's not take away vote by mail to put

1:33:54internet voting in here because internet voting works better for Lorelei. Let's add internet voting

1:33:59to the already running list of options we have. So I'm and this has been a frustration I've had

1:34:06with the city where it seems like we're having to prove like which option is the best one and we

1:34:10can only pick one or two. We can only pick two or three and I understand that budget

1:34:15restraints are a thing and that constraints whatever are a thing and that there are a whole bunch of

1:34:22concerns that the city has about a bunch of the different methods. But asking us to help with this

1:34:30like accessibility hunger games of like which disabled people are going to come out on top and

1:34:36get the chance to vote in the next election and like some years some of us can vote and then the

1:34:41next year that option that we used is taken away from us and now we can't vote anymore because

1:34:46a committee of people said they didn't need it. You know that to me is really frustrating. I don't

1:34:51want to live in a city where in the future that when I'm no longer on the AAC they decide that

1:34:57the only voting method that worked for me is no longer important so it just gets taken off the

1:35:02list. So I would urge the city not to have us help you decide which ones are the most important

1:35:10because I think they are all going to be important because everyone deserves the right to vote.

1:35:16Currently in our city there are people who don't have an option and I think we need to tend to

1:35:21those people's needs and make sure they have an option without taking any options away from people.

1:35:28And that's what my frustration is with this like scoring the importance and forces that

1:35:32repel and attract. I don't want to be involved in this hunger games of like battle royale of which

1:35:38disability wins. I would much rather we just why not offer all of the voting enhancements.

1:35:44I understand that the city is going to say we can't we don't have the budget but that's not

1:35:48actually the AAC's concern. That's a very harsh thing to say but the AAC is here to advise on

1:35:55what is accessible. We're not here to consider the city's budget. We're not here we're here to say

1:36:00this is what the disabled community wants. This is what the disabled community needs because I don't

1:36:06want a report going back to council that says that the AAC said certain things weren't as important

1:36:11when realistically I don't think any of us probably feel that way. I think we all feel that

1:36:15anything accessible would be great and any more accessibility we can get would always be great.

1:36:22So I just want to remind everyone that we don't have to care about the city's budget. That's

1:36:29council's job. That's why we hired there. That's why we voted them in right. Those of us who could

1:36:33vote which I couldn't but like that's that's council's and staff's job to figure out. We don't

1:36:38have to concern ourselves with budget with could it get hacked with anything. All we have to concern

1:36:43ourselves with is does it help remove barriers for disabled people and I don't love the structure

1:36:49of this conversation being focused on the city's needs and narrowing it down.

1:36:57And has had his hand up. I just want to mention that.

1:37:00Okay Ted we'll come to you in a second. I'm what I'm hearing you say Lorelai is that

1:37:07we need all of these options and more. We shouldn't be picking and choosing

1:37:12which options which disabilities were removing barriers for and which disabilities were not

1:37:18removing barriers for. We just plain and simple. We need to do everything possible that we can do.

1:37:26Am I hearing you correctly? Yeah. Yeah thanks. Ted and then Chris.

1:37:32If I'm up I think the only thing that we're looking for is for computer access to be included.

1:37:46Everything else that Lorelai has said is absolutely perfect and everything that is on that list

1:37:54is great. All we want is internet access because that would make it totally perfect.

1:38:05If totally perfect is something anyone can really say. Okay. Here we go. Thanks Ted.

1:38:19Sorry and I lost track. Who was it Chris? You had your yeah. Yeah thank you. So I'm looking at this

1:38:26as sort of a holistic approach to providing for voting for people with disabilities and I think that

1:38:32you know these three factors are very important because I think with

1:38:36the presentation of these three you'd be able to get a wide enough swath of people with disabilities

1:38:42while being able to accommodate those who require it. And the reason I'm saying that is because as

1:38:47Lorelai had said there's no way that we can predict who will use this and who won't and there's no way

1:38:52to tell how many people will be able to accept an accommodation versus who will be able to use

1:38:56a universally designed voting system. So I think it is very important for us to be able to look at

1:39:04providing all three of these things as Lorelai had said before because of the fact that if we're

1:39:10going to provide for an accessible environment we have to be able to encounter multiple avenues to

1:39:16ensuring that level of accountability while ensuring that we can provide accommodations to

1:39:21those who require them. So say hypothetically if someone's internet goes down they have a

1:39:26disability maybe there's a way that they can get a lift to and from. You know I've heard that happen

1:39:31before. Just as an example of an accommodation that could potentially be used if all three of these

1:39:37things don't function as planned. But hearing the conversation about the internet being a good

1:39:43resource voting from home would be a good option for those who want to choose it as well as voting

1:39:48by mail would be a third echelon of that same holistic approach to providing that level of

1:39:55care for voting. So Chris when you say these these three you you're specifically saying the vote by

1:40:05mail vote from home and internet voting. Yeah can you scroll down please can you show us the whole

1:40:12page. Yeah and then the other how do you vote by phone and remote accessible vote by mail fit into

1:40:20your what you're saying. So those sort of come across to me as being similar to say feedback

1:40:28mechanisms that are set up in provincial lines and federal lines. You know any organization that has

1:40:35accessibility plan is required to provide for these types of feedback processes so somebody

1:40:40internet can use the mail somebody can walk in somebody can use a phone to relay their feedback

1:40:48to the organization. I hadn't seen these before so these are other other items that could well

1:40:53be used within this and this isn't coming from a personal perspective but it's coming from the

1:40:58federal and provincial perspective through the applied legislative feedback processes. So this

1:41:03has been tried and tested before while ensuring that a certain level of accommodation can be

1:41:11met that's reasonable. But I think that the inclusion of all these resources for people

1:41:18would meet them where they're at and that lowers the risk of liability to the to the city in terms

1:41:23of just applications to HROT because you're then providing that level of accessibility. And so what

1:41:31what I'm worried about us being caught in is this sort of level of pitching holding us down to one

1:41:35selection and then having to deal with that reverberation when that threshold of little

1:41:42liability goes up because we haven't provided this when we could. And again that links to

1:41:49human rights factors that apply to all of us. Just really quick Kathy in the room has her hand up.

1:41:58Kathy go ahead. Just as we're speaking and I completely agree with the group 100 percent

1:42:06these are all pieces of accessibility which are very important. I think it's important to recognize

1:42:12that there will have to be a process because just to throw all this out willingly will be very

1:42:17confusing could cause chaos in terms of the entire process. So recognizing that it's also

1:42:23another piece of accessibility on how to offer this to the community and how to communicate

1:42:28between the community members what their preferences are and giving them that space to

1:42:33understanding and acknowledge what their options are and who they can connect with to make the

1:42:39best decisions for themselves and own this piece. So making a decision to offer everything is

1:42:48accessibility piece and as many accessibility options as possible in itself is what creating

1:42:54accessibility is but also that extra piece on how this is going to be connected to the community

1:43:01to be able to fill this out or make their preference that also needs to be accessible and

1:43:07offered in accessible platforms as well. What I'm hearing is that yes offering as many as possible

1:43:19is important but there's important considerations to be had in how those options are community out

1:43:26to people and how those are part of the the integrated community conversation about voting.

1:43:36Yeah and also just the point of like the literal logistics of it all like does an individual

1:43:42understand that this is going to be presented to them by mail can they find it on the website to

1:43:48be emailed to them or mail to them or can they come speak to somebody and then when they fill

1:43:53this out they can decide upon their preferences and then their preferred way of communication

1:43:59will be respected and then a registration confirmation for when they can you know vote

1:44:05like little pieces of understanding because there are individuals with like physical disabilities

1:44:10but like cognitive and processing disabilities will need that's to really understand the process

1:44:16of it to actively participate in an equitable manner. Yeah so those literal logistics do people

1:44:24understand how it works what each step in the process is for each method and what their options are.

1:44:33Yeah thank you. Chris you have your hand up. Yeah I know the consideration that came out of the

1:44:40sorry the last talker I apologize I'm really bad with names but the the factor of non-disclosure

1:44:50should be something that's also given priority on this there's no way that anybody who say

1:44:58marshaling this process should be allowed to ask if someone has a certain symptomology or

1:45:05certain type of disability that's that's something that should remain out of scope

1:45:11because that'll that'll set up another echelon of complete sort of reactive processes that we've been

1:45:18through multiple multiple times in fact everything that we do is kind of based on the idea do we have

1:45:23to disclose or not so be really nice to have that baked into the voting system to say if I'm going to

1:45:29go and use an online version there's no requirement for me to state that I have a disability if I'm

1:45:35going to use the the same system through mail then I shouldn't have to verify that I have a disability

1:45:41because that is an antiquated process that ideally we'd like to see you know all of us come to a

1:45:48reasonable solution on so it's very important that there be no slippage there because if there is

1:45:53somebody down the line who asks for disclosure then that is not allowed and that might be seen as

1:45:59a reason to file an application or reason to file a complaint with the city and so on so

1:46:04just to be clear if this is going to move forward there can be no application of

1:46:09of verification of identity right right right I hear a lot of people saying right I also wanted

1:46:18to just strongly co-sign what Chris just said absolutely Donna yeah following up on what Chris is

1:46:35saying there would need to be some consideration about people that need to vote a certain way

1:46:46for example from home or by mail like would someone have to ask I could see the internet

1:46:55solution being universal it's available period by mail by what someone would someone have to

1:47:06request a ballot how about work I can how could that be as universal as possible those are other

1:47:15considerations going forward with this type of using all of these options and I just interject

1:47:27for one minute we have a procedural comment yeah we're approaching 8 50 so and the meeting is over

1:47:35in just under 13 or just out about 13 minutes are we going to continue past 8 o'clock like is that

1:47:44something that somebody would want to put a motion on the floor but I guess I'm asking the facilitator

1:47:49first if that is even an option from the facilitator's perspective and then if it is then the committee

1:47:57should decide whether there's a motion related to them I'm here to serve the group and what the

1:48:06group wants and needs so I'm happy to be flexible I did see a couple head shakes no at the idea of

1:48:15extending but there might be other voices to hear in that in our last few minutes what I would hope

1:48:22to do is just kind of recap what we've captured here for you just at a high level and then I do

1:48:29have one closing exercise that could help us to hear in in a different way what each person is thinking

1:48:38about let me put it back to the group what is it that you'd like for last 10 minutes

1:48:49the chair is also going to need a couple of minutes to close the meeting as well so just be aware of that

1:48:55okay so procedurally does does is somebody wanting to put forward a motion to extend the meeting

1:49:02I think a few of us would not be able to but and then we wouldn't have quorum so we might not

1:49:10okay I don't see or hear a motion so we're definitely a hard stop right at eight we have to end

1:49:15and I do need a couple minutes to close the meeting yeah okay thanks Laura Lai so I'm just

1:49:21going to take a step back to just kind of scroll through what I've captured in terms of notes I

1:49:26won't read them all but just to give us a picture and see if anyone has anything else they feel

1:49:32hasn't yet been captured so we started off with acknowledgement that this type of a framework of

1:49:42folks being asked to share forces that attract and forces that repel was not a preferred way to

1:49:51have this conversation in hearing everybody's different voices on the subject there have been

1:49:59some thoughts that have come up around why something might not be an ideal method but

1:50:03overwhelmingly I'm hearing folks say we need to provide as many options as possible to ensure

1:50:13that we are not picking and choosing you know whose needs are being met and and whose are not

1:50:21so most of my notes have stayed outside of that chart as comments on the whole picture

1:50:29I think also just through what I've heard internet voting vote from home and vote by mail seem to be

1:50:38kind of the most talked about with vote by phone and remote accessible vote by mail being like

1:50:49those are things that would be great as options for people who the other options aren't working for

1:50:54that's kind of my high level assessment of what I've heard any other last comments or things you

1:51:04feel like we just haven't captured yeah pat these hand up in the room as well

1:51:10Kathy we'll start yeah okay so I just think put all of them on there as options I think to

1:51:17prioritize what works best for the group and then others can offer those options again it's

1:51:22like a pick and choosing when we think of barriers all barriers can exist and all of these options

1:51:30are really great options that could be an option to support somebody to vote so I say yay to all of

1:51:36them as spaces of accessibility for voting thanks Kathy um I heard you say all barriers can exist

1:51:48and all of these options could help to remove barriers as well uh Laura lie and

1:51:56sorry I wasn't sure who was so I have yeah it was me and then I think Chris is next um so for me

1:52:04I have a few closing thoughts I'll try to be very quick one uh something you said there about the

1:52:08first three voting options being the most talked about and the last two being kind of nice to have

1:52:13add-ons I strongly disagree with that that's what the group was saying I think that that was maybe

1:52:18a miscommunication um I don't think that we were saying the first three are more important than the

1:52:25last two or or more or were more talked about or were more uh so that's one thing secondly I

1:52:32personally don't feel that this workshop and this is I mean this very uh I'm autistic and I sometimes

1:52:39lack the ability to structure my senses in a way that is not offensive to people and I feel like

1:52:44I might be stepping into that territory and I want to say that I'm saying this with respect and I'm

1:52:49not frustrated with anyone in this meeting and I don't think anyone here has done a bad job of

1:52:53anything but I personally don't feel that this workshop has been sufficient as a medium for us

1:52:59getting all of our thoughts I have a lot more to say about all the voting options I know that we've

1:53:04had multiple discussions where we've gone a lot more in-depth about each individual voting option

1:53:08with staff than we've had the chance to today and I would welcome a direct conversation between

1:53:14just staff and the AAC that's not facilitated because I feel like there's been some miscommunication

1:53:20in the notes being taken um sometimes like I noticed all of the positives that I said about every

1:53:26single uh type of voting method didn't get listed because of course they didn't they it's too fast

1:53:31like I'm speaking too fast for you to keep up I don't blame you for that but I don't I just don't

1:53:36feel like this workshop uh is where the conversation should end I would really like to see staff come

1:53:41and have a dedicated direct conversation with us even just an hour long of us just speaking our

1:53:48minds of our thoughts about the different voting methods and giving you our feedback about the

1:53:52different voting methods because I think a lot more people would have things to say um the the

1:53:58last thing that I wanted to say is I know that next staff is going to be crafting a draft motion

1:54:04for us and I would like to urge staff not to craft a draft motion that encourages us to pick a

1:54:10certain number of these even though that may be the motion that staff is hoping to get from the AAC

1:54:17I'd really like you to not uh guide us in what you would like us to tell you and just instead

1:54:25say like what would you like to see for voting options because it can be a little bit coercive

1:54:30sometimes unintentionally I don't think the city is attempting to coerce anyone but it can be very

1:54:36tricky for staff to come to a meeting where we're still learning how to write motions and to say

1:54:40here's the draft motion just fill in the blanks and then we think our only option is to fill in

1:54:44those blanks and then later that motion goes to council and council says well the AAC said they

1:54:51were fine with just these three so that's fine you know we we need to really have our voices heard

1:54:56in that motion so thank you thanks for a lie I want you to know I've noted that

1:55:06my comment about the first three being most talked about and the last two not that and I

1:55:12appreciate you calling that out because now that's directly added here that that is not what

1:55:18that you disagree with that and that that sends the wrong message that you've requested a dedicated

1:55:25and direct conversation that's not facilitated where folks can continue to speak their minds and

1:55:32feedback and that you urge staff not to craft a motion that recommends or guides by a few and

1:55:38that option to fill in the blank is not sufficient we have four minutes left

1:55:45right um we'll go to chris for last comments and then I'll pass to laura lie to close

1:55:51right I just want to hone in on the fact that the standard now is nothing about us without us

1:55:57and I think that this would follow through with this discussion on voting

1:56:01in my professional realm I'm doing a lot of consulting with school boards and libraries

1:56:04and other provinces trying to get them set up for accessibility as well and what we do is a best

1:56:08practice is that we give a list of possible accessibility features that they could use

1:56:16to correct a gap that represents a barrier to people with disabilities so that is not

1:56:21necessarily coming from my professional background it comes from other people's here

1:56:25we're all professionals in our own right but I just like to hone in on the fact that you know

1:56:30the term nothing about us without us is something that we actually take very seriously and to follow

1:56:36up with what the committee had said around you know further consultation further

1:56:45relaying of information to you that's that's from our lived experience and from our professional

1:56:49backgrounds is extremely key because of the fact that we're then applying the lens of accessibility

1:56:56we're not applying the lens of accommodation in this in this role so that's why I'm saying that

1:56:59these these items which you've shown us all have to be sort of given together as a package

1:57:04holistically I hope that made sense I'm gonna be quiet now thanks Chris and I did say I'd

1:57:14pass to Lorelai to close but I should just check if staff had anything else to also add before we

1:57:20close okay I'll pass it back to you Lorelai thank you so much yeah I want to thank you for coming

1:57:35and facilitating us today and thank you to staff as well for making yourselves available and thank

1:57:40you to all the members who've come here today I'm not sure what I need to do in closing for a

1:57:46workshop Leanne is there do we have to vote to adjourn the meeting or how does this work yeah

1:57:52so just very quickly there are a couple of staff announcements at the bottom of the agenda please

1:57:57note them so the first one is that December 19th is the next meeting and so of course this topic

1:58:05will be on an agenda I believe yes yes and then from three to five as usual and so that's the third

1:58:13Tuesday and that when you receive emails from Sarah shortly her last name will be changing

1:58:20so just note that so if you don't see it from Sarah any more it's from Sarah

1:58:25Bogeyne, Bogeynesia? Bogeynesian all right and that's it so Lorelai of all you would do is

1:58:34well we're two minutes yet so you'll meet a motion to end the meeting because we're not ready

1:58:40will someone move to end the meeting and second yes we've got Ted who would like to second we've

1:58:45got Elizabeth as a second thank you so much all right is anyone opposed can anyone be opposed

1:58:51no they can't can they anyway it doesn't look like anyone is opposed so thank you so much everyone

1:58:59take care thank you all thank you for attending really appreciate it thank you for having me

1:59:19thank you for coming in yeah I really appreciate it yeah I was thought this was like encouraged to

1:59:24be in person too yeah I appreciate the um the online option I got kids started my life but I was

1:59:33like I'm going to this thing good for you yeah this is great