Committee of Adjustment

1:28Good afternoon, Gwelf. I'd like to call to order the June 27th, 2024 hearing of the

1:34Golf Committee of Adjustment. We have a bit of a different schedule today as we have a closed

1:40meeting to begin with, followed by the consideration of applications starting at 4 p.m. The closed

1:47item is listed on the agenda regarding the status of comprehensive zoning bylaw appeals,

1:53and being and is being held under section 239, bracket 2, bracket F, and 3.1,

2:04bracket 1 of the Municipal Act relating to advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege,

2:11including communications necessary for that purpose and for the purpose of educating and

2:17training members. May I get a mover and seconder to move into closed session regarding this item?

2:24Member Sayers and second Member Balaban. All those in favor? We will proceed with that meeting

2:33in closed session and then we will come back out to proceed with our opening remarks at 4 p.m.

2:39and the considerations of applications to the agenda. Thank you. And what that means to the

2:46people in the gallery that is unfortunately we're going to inconvenience you and ask you to leave

2:51the auditorium. We don't have to. They don't have to leave. We're going into another room for the

3:00session. I should have asked my boss before I opened my mouth. At that we're going to move into

3:09closed session and we will be back at 4 o'clock. Thank you for your patience.

26:16Thank you for your patience, ladies and gentlemen. We'll be coming back into session

26:20in a few moments. We're going to take a five-minute break in anticipation of

26:25getting our ducks in a row, but we'll be starting the meeting momentarily. So thanks again for your

26:32patience. I'd like to call back to order the June 27th, 2024 meeting of the committee of

32:33adjustment. Before we get into opening remarks, I'd like to do a quick summary of the closed

32:37session as there was only one item regarding the status of comprehensive zoning bylaw appeals.

32:43The committee received information that is an update from the closed session from our lawyers

32:51and a disprivileged information. Now we'll get on with the regular portion of our meeting.

32:58This hearing is being held in a hybrid format with attendees appearing in person and or remotely

33:04and is being live streamed and recorded. Please be advised that public meetings hearings form part

33:11of the public record and the words, names and images of those participating shall be recorded

33:17and posted online. I've received regrets from member, pardon me, it says Siegel, but I believe

33:28that it's good fellow who will not be in attendance tonight. Before I outline the hearing format,

33:34if you wish to speak to an application that's listed on the agenda and have not let us know in

33:42advance, please call the number displayed on the screen now, which is 519-822-1260 extension 2524.

33:53That's 519-822-1260 extension 2524. And you will receive instructions on how to participate.

34:03A final call for delegations will be made when each application is called. The agenda for this

34:09hearing has been posted online at gulf.ca forward slash c o f a. I will remind all committee members

34:18and staff participating in the hearing to please mute your microphones when not in use. Applicants

34:25will be unmuted when their application is called. I'd also like to share the hearing format we'll

34:31be using to navigate through each application. Each applicant will be called by the secretary

34:37treasurer and the call in number for those wishing to speak to an application shall be displayed

34:42on the screen. Afterwards, the applicant will be given an opportunity to add anything further to

34:49their application to a maximum of 10 minutes. You will hear a chime when there is 30 seconds left

34:55and another when 10 minutes have expired. If you are the applicant and have nothing further to add,

35:02then you can simply say so. The committee will then be able to ask questions of the applicant

35:08or staff. After that, we will hear from members of the public who wish to comment on the application.

35:16Please note that all comments should be addressed through myself, the chair.

35:22Please avoid repeating concerns already stated by others and focus on new information.

35:29Comments are also only limited to 10 minutes or less. You'll hear a chime when there are 30

35:37seconds left and another when there are 10 minutes have elapsed. Any members of the public who've

35:42submitted a request to speak prior to the hearing will be the first invited to provide comments.

35:48For those watching the session online, if you wish to speak to an application and have not yet

35:55submitted a request in advance of the hearing, please call the number displayed on the screen now.

36:02For those attending the hearing in person, you will also be given a chance to come forward

36:06to the podium and address the committee. Once all comments from the public have been heard,

36:11the applicant or staff will be given the opportunity to respond to comments. Finally,

36:17as chair, I will turn to the committee for emotion and deliberation as well as a vote on the application.

36:24When the committee is making its decision on the application,

36:28I will be asking the secretary treasurer to conduct the vote by roll call.

36:33The secretary treasurer will call each of the members names and each member will respond if

36:38they are in favor or opposed to the motion and I will announce the result of the vote.

36:46If you wish to receive a copy of the decision of an application, including information about the

36:51appeal procedure, you must submit a written request. A written request may be made by contacting

36:58staff using the contact information shown on the screen now. To receive a copy of the decision,

37:04please email cofa at gwellf.ca with your name and the file number you're interested in. Please

37:15note that owners and applicants are automatically receiving a copy of the decision.

37:22At this point, I would like to read our territorial acknowledgement.

37:27As we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live in work and wealth,

37:33a city built over rich indigenous histories. We are guests here. We should reflect upon the

37:40responsibility and care for this land, the people who live here today and the generations to come.

37:47If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation, we should take a pause and make

37:53those decisions with intention and with gratitude. This place we call Guelph has served a traditional

38:01lands and a place of refuge for many people over time, but more specifically the Anorondac

38:08and the Honoshone. This land is held as the treaty lands of the territory of the Mississaugas of the

38:14Credit First Nation and Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman tract and is part of a

38:21long established traditional hunting ground for the six nations of the Grand River.

38:27Many First Nations, Inuit and Métis people who have come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home

38:36today. At this point in the hearing, I'd like to ask if any members of our committee have any

38:46particular interest? Member Sayers. Yeah, I've got a conflict on item 5.4 which is files B25, 24,

38:59A33, 24 and A34, 24. I'm employed by a firm that's made submissions in this matter.

39:11That was item 5.4. Yeah. Thank you. Okay, no other interests of peculiar nature.

39:26I've confirmed with the Secretary of Treasury that we've not received any deferral requests

39:31and before I turn it over to the Secretary of Treasury, I'd like to make one housekeeping

39:36item known. It's my intention to move item 5.9 which is at 122 Harris. I want to move that from

39:48item 9 to item 6. So 5.678 will all shift downwards. The other housekeeping thing I may

40:00mention is we have a very full agenda this evening and it appears we have a number of delegations.

40:06I am very obviously this is going to take a lot of time and so we may be taking a break

40:16in the proceedings rather in order to accommodate the committee's needs.

40:24At this point, I will turn it over to the Secretary of Treasury. The first application is file A-26-24

40:42variance to permit reduced side yard setback for existing rear deck at 18 Atto Drive. I'll note

40:50for those attending remotely, if you wish to speak to this application, you can do so by

40:54calling the number displayed on the screen. That number is 519-822-1260 extension 2524

41:02and when you call in staff will give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely.

41:07Is the applicant present? Yes, please come forward to the microphone.

41:24Welcome. Can you state your name and your relationship to the application for the record,

41:28please? Yes, my name is Nancy Brittnull and I live there at that home at 18 Atto with my husband,

41:35Michael. Thank you and can you tell me if the sign was in place as per the planning?

41:41Yes, it was. And have you received staff's comments and are you in agreement?

41:46Yes, I just reviewed them actually and I am in agreement. So I think it looked like all I needed

41:51was still to get a building permit but otherwise the variance is okay.

41:57Okay, well you you have 10 minutes to address the committee and you're shaking your head. I'm

42:03not sure if that means you don't want to address this any further. I don't know. I'm very delighted

42:08actually. I have nothing else to say. I'm easy. Very good. If you want to wait right there,

42:17we'll see if there are any members of the public who would wish to comment on this application.

42:24Madam Secretary Treasurer, do we have any delegations registered on this?

42:29Chair Smith, I can confirm no delegation request for this item.

42:34Thank you and is there anyone in the chamber who would like to speak to this application?

42:45Seeing none, committee members, do we have any questions of the applicant?

42:54Don't see any questions for you. At this point, I will entertain a motion from my colleagues.

42:59Committee members, what is your wish? Member Spears.

43:04Yes, I move that we accept this application with the the condition suggested by staff.

43:12And do I have a seconder? Member Sayers, is there any debate on the motion? Seeing none,

43:21Madam Secretary Treasurer, may you call the vote. Thank you, Chair. Committee members, please

43:26indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion which is to approve the

43:31application with the one staff recommended condition. Chair Smith. In favor. Member Balaban.

43:37In favor. Member Mambrenio. In favor. Member Seyer. In favor. Member Segal. In favor.

43:44And Member Spears. In favor. That's carried, Mr. Chair. Your application has been approved,

43:50you're free to leave the meeting. Thanks for your attendance.

43:54Madam Secretary Treasurer, may we have the next applicant?

44:06The next application is file A-31-24, multiple variances for proposed cluster townhouse development

44:14at 180 Gordon Street. I'll note for those attending remotely, if you wish to speak to this application,

44:20you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen. That number is 519-822-1260

44:27extension 2524 and staff will give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely.

44:34Welcome. Can you state your name and your relationship to the application for the record,

44:38please? Hi, my name is Olivia Warner. I'm the applicant agent for the owners and we also,

44:43Ryan Rovey here. He is also the applicant partnership. And can you tell me if the

44:50sign was posted as with the planning? Yes, it was. That's great. And have you read staff's comments

44:56and are you in agreement? Yes, we are. Thank you. We have 10 minutes to address the committee. Please

45:02make use as much or as little as you'd like to. Okay. So thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the

45:08committee and thanks to staff for the thorough report on these minor variances. I'm here today

45:12with my colleague Ryan. We represent the partnership for this project. And if staff would be able to

45:18share the site plan that we had marked up our minor variances with, that would be great.

45:22Much appreciated. Perfect. Thank you. So this site is located at 180 Gordon Street and went

45:30through the OPA rezoning process and was approved back in 2013 for 10 townhomes. The building was

45:36three stories with a fourth floor pop up for a rooftop terrace and mechanical space. We purchased

45:42the site in June of 2023 and we've prepared an updated design with some minor revisions to those

45:47original plans. We have reduced the unit count from 10 to 8 townhomes and we've kept the height and

45:54location of the building the same. So it aligns with the original approved footprint setbacks and

45:58angular plane. We changed the original carport design to traditional garages so they're more secure,

46:04which will allow residents to store garbage bins and personal items in each of their individual

46:09garages. This is a relatively small site. It was brownfield, meaning it was contaminated

46:16over the years through gas stations. And it was a, it's a tight site with some logistical constraints.

46:21So for example, the driveway will not be a straight shot from the road. You can see that it curves

46:26down in order to align with the traffic intersection at Gordon and Albert Street. So being a longer

46:33and more narrow site, we do require some minor variances to make the site specific conditions

46:37work efficiently. We believe though that these requested variances meet the four tests. They're

46:43minor in nature. They align with the city's zoning bylaw and official plan and that they are

46:49appropriate for the development of this infill parcel. We've also had ongoing discussions with

46:54city staff and we've refined refined our designs in order to address their comments. We've had a

46:59few meetings with our direct neighbors as well as with the neighborhood association and the ward

47:04counselors. And we've walked them through our plans to explain what the redevelopment of this

47:08site will look like and everyone is supportive of those plans and the proposed changes. We also have

47:13letters as well that the committee has received in support of these revisions from the neighbors.

47:21So getting into the variances, since this property had its tailored site specific zoning

47:26set in 2013 at approval, we have a number of requested variances from the new 2023 zoning

47:32bylaw. So the first three variances are to align the 1995 and the 2023 zoning bylaws,

47:38which as you know since the 2023 bylaw is still under appeal, current applications must receive

47:44variances from both bylaws. So variance one is for the height of the accessory building, which is

47:49the garage. Our height is at 3.67 meters to the midpoint of the roof. The newer 2023 zoning

47:57actually permits a height of four meters, but the 1995 permits 3.6 meters. Our neighbors have

48:04asked for a pitched roof for privacy into their rear yard, which we are happy to do with the help

48:08of this minor variance. Variance two is for the width of the driveway and parking aisle. So the

48:152023 zoning does permit six meters, but the 1995 bylaw requires 6.5. We're requesting a minimum of

48:235.5 meters in width, but you'll note that engineering has commented that a minimum of six meters is

48:29supported by them, which we can achieve once variances seven and eight are approved, and we can

48:35come back to that to discuss how those are related. Variance three is for the private outdoor amenity

48:40space, where both the 1995 and the 2023 zoning bylaw require the same thing, which is a minimum

48:46area of 20 square meters and a minimum depth of 4.5 meters from the wall of the unit. We actually

48:52have two outdoor amenity spaces. We have one at the ground floor patio and one at the rooftop,

48:57so we actually have a total amenity area of 30 square meters per townhome. So we are just

49:03requesting to have the private amenity area be non-contiguous and split up between those two

49:07spaces as well as a minimum of 2.8 meters deep. So then the following variances, the following five

49:14are from the 2023 zoning bylaw, which was obviously not in place when the site-specific zoning was

49:19crafted 10 years ago, so the previous applicants hadn't considered these items. So variance four

49:25is for the maximum driveway width for townhouses, where the 2023 zoning bylaw requires a five-meter

49:31maximum width. We have 6.6 meters. This is to allow for the fire truck to be able to pull into the site,

49:39and this is the maximum width at the property line, and then we'll narrow throughout the site.

49:43Variance five is for the buffer strips to not be required in the interior side or rear lot lines.

49:49However, we do maintain some of the intent of the newer buffer strip requirement because the

49:55primary building is set back a minimum of three meters from all lot lines. So we kind of achieve a

50:01three-meter buffer landscape patio buffer in the north interior side yard, which is facing the park,

50:08and then a three-meter landscape buffer in the rear yard, which just has a small encroachment to

50:12allow for vehicle maneuvering. Variance six is to allow for a minimum dwelling unit width of

50:19five meters, where the zoning bylaw requires 5.5. Five meters is just the narrowest width

50:25in the middle of the end units due to an architectural jog, but the otherwise the unit frontages are

50:315.41 meters for the end units and 5.12 meters for the interior units.

50:38Variance seven is to allow for a minimum 0.5 meter setback from the driveway to a building entrance

50:45or window of a habitable room. This is required to allow for city engineering's request of the

50:50six-meter minimum drive aisle width. And then finally, variance eight is to allow for a minimum

50:56interior side yard setback to the garage of 0.1 meters, and this will allow for flexibility on

51:03that drive aisle width, as well as to allow for the retaining wall to align with the back of the

51:10garage. So this 0.1 meter setback will allow for the eaves of the garage to stay within our property,

51:17and the direct neighbor at 200 Gordon Street has agreed to this variance. In summary, we believe

51:23that these variances are minor in nature. They align with the City of Guelph's official plan and

51:27the zoning bylaw, and will allow for the appropriate and efficient development of this smaller infill

51:33parcel, which we know has sat vacant for over a decade since the original plans are approved.

51:38I'd like to thank you all for listening and considering our application,

51:41and I'll now pass it back to the Chair for any questions. Thank you.

51:46Thank you. If you want to wait right there, we'll see if there are any members of the public

51:51who would like to address this application.

51:57Are there any members of the public in the gallery who would like to speak to this application?

52:05And I don't see anyone, Madam Secretary Treasurer. Do we have any online?

52:10Chair Smith, I can confirm no delegation requests.

52:13Thank you. Committee members, do we have any questions of this applicant?

52:21Seeing none, Madam Secretary, I guess committee members, what is your wish? Do we have a motion

52:28to consider? Oh, Member Sears. Yeah, so just to confirm, you're agreeable to a driveway width of

52:34six meters. Exactly. Yes. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. Sorry, I jumped the gun. Do we have a motion?

52:44To consider. Member Spears. I move that the committee accept this application with the

52:55comments and recommendations by city staff. Thank you. And do we have a seconder?

52:59Member Bellaman. Do we have any discussion or debate on this issue? Member Sears.

53:08I would just propose an amendment to that the, that there won't be a variance to

53:19a driveway with the 5.5 meters. It'll be six meters. Is that not included in the?

53:28Well, in the, it's permitted under the, well, the 2023 by-law requires a minimum width of

53:39six and a half meters. Right. So, yeah. Do you feel we need to amend that? Member Bellaman.

53:50It appears that they are requesting relief from that. Are they not? Yeah.

54:01We have a motion. We've had a little bit of discussion. Is there any more discussion on the

54:06motion in front of us? Seeing none. Madam Secretary Treasurer, may I ask you to call the vote?

54:14Thank you, chair. Committee members, please indicate your vote by responding in favor or

54:18opposed to the motion, which is to approve the application with the three recommended staff

54:24conditions. Chair Smith. In favor. Member Bellaman. In favor. Member Membranio. In favor. Member Sear.

54:34In favor. Member Segal. In favor. And Member Spears. In favor. That's carried chair.

54:41Your application has been approved and you're free to leave the meeting. Thank you very much.

54:46You're welcome. Madam Secretary Treasurer, may we have the next applicant?

55:00The next application is file A-32 slash 24, bariances to permit reduced front and exterior

55:07side yard setbacks and location within site lane triangle for existing front porch and proposed

55:12addition, partial enclosure of front porch at 208 London Road West. I'll note for those attending

55:18remotely, if you wish to speak to this application, you can do so by calling the number displayed on

55:22the screen. The number is 519-822-1260 extension 2524. And when you call in, staff will give you

55:30instructions on how you can delegate remotely. And is the applicant present? Yes, please come

55:36forward. Welcome. Hi. Hello. Can you state your name and your relationship to the application please?

55:45I'm Briar Long, one of the homeowners. My husband Greg and I are the homeowners here.

55:50Thank you. And have you read staff's comments and are you in agreement? Yes, and we are very pleased.

55:58And can you tell me if the sign was posted as per the Planning Act? It was indeed.

56:03Thank you. You have 10 minutes to address the committee. I guess I am thinking that

56:09if there are questions from the committee, I'm happy to answer those. I'm thinking you have all

56:13the information, no new information to provide today. Okay. Committee members or no, we'll ask

56:22first if there's anyone in the gallery who would like to speak to this application. Seeing none,

56:32do we have any online who would like to address this application? Chair Smith, I can confirm no

56:37delegation requests. Thank you. If you wait for a moment, are there members of the committee who'd

56:43like to ask this applicant a question? I have one question in the absence of my colleagues. And

56:52I just want to be clear. This is an existing condition, correct?

56:58That you're amending. I'm not sure I understand your question. It's an existing condition, right?

57:08The request is, the project involves partially enclosing an existing front porch on the property

57:17I guess that's what I was asking. You are planning to just enclose the existing, you're not expanding

57:24Correct. That's right. That's right. Exactly. What we're doing is, is an enclosing part of the

57:29current front porch to make a little reading area that's accessed from the house. It's on the same

57:34footprint, not changing anything, not changing the sight lines in any way. It sounds charming. Thank

57:41you. Appreciate the qualification. Committee members, do we have a wish on this motion?

57:49Member Balavan? I move that we accept the application and approve it in accordance with

57:56staff's recommendations. And do we have a seconder? Member Siegel? And is there any discussion or

58:05comment on this application? Seeing none, Madam Secretary Treasurer, would you mind calling the

58:12vote please? Thank you, Chair. Committee members, please indicate your vote by responding in favor

58:17or opposed to the motion, which is to approve the application. Chair Smith? In favor. Member Balavan?

58:24In favor. Member Mambrenio? In favor. Member Seher? In favor. Member Siegel? In favor. And member Spears?

58:34In favor. That's carried, Mr. Chair. Your application has been approved and your freedom to

58:39leave the meeting. Thank you very much for your attendance. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Madam

58:47Secretary Treasurer, may we have the next applicant? I believe we do have a member with

58:59pecuniary interest who will be leaving this. So thank you, Member Seher. The next applications

59:13are files B-25-24, A-33-24, and A-34-24 consent to create new residential lot with one retained

59:24residential lot and related variances regarding garage width, area and location, driveway width,

59:30and required parking space for proposed severed and retained lots at 8 St. Ornode Street.

59:36I'll note for those attending remotely, if you wish to speak to these applications, you can do so

59:40by calling the numbers, the number displayed on the screen, that number is 519-822-1260,

59:47extension 2524, and staff will give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely. I'll also note

59:53for the committee's benefit as well as those attending that we did get correspondence after

59:57the comment deadline from Victoria Smith with concerns about the application and that correspondence

1:00:03has been circulated to the committee members, staff and the applicant. Thank you, Madam Secretary

1:00:11Treasurer, and good afternoon. Can you state your name and your relationship to the application,

1:00:15please? My name is Jeff Buseman and I represent the property owner. And can you tell me if the

1:00:21sign was posted as per the planning? Yes, it was. And have you received staff's comments and are you

1:00:27in agreement? Yes, I have received the comments and we are in agreement. Well, you have 10 minutes

1:00:33to address the committee, Mr. Buseman. Sure. Maybe you could present it on the screen. This is on

1:00:39St. Tarno Street. The plan is for the existing house to be removed and to construct a set of

1:00:46semi-detached dwellings. This is provided for in the new approved zoning bylaw for the City of Guelph

1:00:52to have semi-detached units. In this case, each parcel will be 10 meters wide, whereas the minimum

1:01:02is 7.5 meters wide. Pretty straightforward application. What's neat, what's interesting about this,

1:01:11this is the start of new files coming in that adhere to the new bylaw that large parts of Guelph

1:01:20now designate RL1 allows for different housing forms, including semi-detached and triplex type

1:01:27units. So this is an application of that nature, giving an opportunity to create more housing units.

1:01:32City staff is supportive of this application and explain in their report how it follows the

1:01:39intention and objectives of the official plan and also that it's conformance with zoning. We do

1:01:47have about five minor variances listed. They're all very, very, very technical in nature in that

1:01:54all these five things are really in the new zoning bylaw, but these specific clauses are under

1:02:00appeal and we thought it best that they be brought forward and be approved for this specific project.

1:02:08We're not asking for any changes from the rules that are intended to be in place,

1:02:13we're just asking that the rules that are intended come forward and apply to this parcel.

1:02:19We're in a little weird situation with respect to having portions of the zoning bylaw under appeal.

1:02:25So I would consider this more technical in nature and City staff have explained that as well.

1:02:32I'd be happy to also just like to mention that there are a number of conditions that are in place,

1:02:38that are proposed, that deal with items like drainage, engineering, servicing,

1:02:44tree protection, that kind of thing. So and then in this case CN rail is asking for additional

1:02:50conditions because we're somewhat close to the railway and so all those conditions are

1:02:56acceptable to us. I'd be happy to answer any questions if there are any from the committee.

1:03:00Thank you Mr. Chair. Thank you Mr. Buseman. Are there, if you want to wait right there,

1:03:06there may be some members of the public who wish to speak to this. I'm going to first ask if there

1:03:11are any members of the public in the gallery who would like to address this issue. Yes, please come

1:03:19forward. Hi there, good afternoon. Welcome. Can you state your name for the record please?

1:03:30Yes, my name is Heather Copeland. You may speak to the committee for 10 minutes if you wish to make

1:03:36use of that. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Chair and to the committee of adjustments for the opportunity

1:03:41to speak to my deep concerns in regards to the application for number eight, St. Arnaud.

1:03:49I will readily admit I am not an urban planner nor do I know the bylaws inside and out but I've

1:03:57done enough research that I feel that there are grave concerns in terms of that appeal process that

1:04:02was spoken about and making those variants in advance of that appeal process actually having

1:04:09its time in court or discussion however that goes. I live directly next door to the property

1:04:16and when I moved there six years ago it was a property and needing some love. I've tended to

1:04:22that place. It is my home. It is my investment. It is my asset. So I have a lot of personal

1:04:27connection to this project. The property is zoned as RL1 low density residential as I understand

1:04:37and I feel that if the variances are approved before the appeal process is concluded the property

1:04:43owner essentially could be grandfathered outside of a normal due diligence and its regulations

1:04:50of appeal doesn't go any further. The survey that was projected a moment ago notes a proposed

1:04:58semi-detached building and is claimed to have a minimum of six rental units with any number of

1:05:04bedrooms unknown. The sketch does not include any potential auxiliary dwelling units but in this

1:05:10case the developers models in other parts of the city auxiliary dwellings are in fact part of the

1:05:16recipe. The property owner number eight Saint Arnaud, Inc. is part of or closely affiliated with the

1:05:23development company Mezcon and Spruce Living. These are companies with current projects that

1:05:28have upset disrupted and impacted several neighborhoods in our city. I feel it relevant to

1:05:34note that as a neighbor didn't buy this property a corporation did. To date there has been no good

1:05:41will or introductions by this property owner. In fact it wasn't until numerous people on the

1:05:47street had to call city by-law to complain about the overflowing mailboxes and the grass that was

1:05:52higher than my knee before the property owners came and did anything about it. It shows that it's

1:05:58really not part of a neighborhood mindset in my opinion. Also in my opinion the model of coverage

1:06:07and densification in low density residential neighborhoods is short-sighted from an urban

1:06:12planning perspective. Infrastructure, parking, traffic, additional demands on sewer requirements,

1:06:18those are all straightforward concerns. The longer impact property values in the immediate area I

1:06:24don't believe myself nor this committee can guarantee what that outcome is. Again when I purchased

1:06:30my home six years ago it was my investment, it's my primary asset and it is my home. The proposed

1:06:36development plans includes the removal of two mature maple trees in and around 40 years old

1:06:41which currently provides valuable shade and aesthetic value to the area. Given that the property

1:06:47primarily faces west the removal of these trees could also impact local climate regulation

1:06:53and overall aesthetics. The Van Harten sketch shows building coverage of over 60% of the property

1:07:00currently not including any auxiliary dwelling units that may be put in. Again for the six houses

1:07:07that directly above the property this has implications and impact on privacy, noise,

1:07:11view access to name a few. I also understand that the proposed semi-detached sketch is just that,

1:07:18it's a sketch. The end build can vary considerably both in size and height so long it is within

1:07:24those variances that may be allowed. As a resident in the area I am deeply invested in maintaining

1:07:30the quality of life and character of our neighborhood. I understand the need for housing but this is a

1:07:35corporation this is not a neighbor. I urge the committee to carefully consider the concerns of

1:07:41impact on infrastructure, traffic, resources, privacy impacted for sure. The vibe of the

1:07:47neighborhood most likely and the longer term potential consequence on people's existing

1:07:53personal investment is very possible. Thank you for considering my concerns I trust that you will

1:07:58thoroughly assess the potential consequences before making any decision regarding this development

1:08:04and by all means feel free to stop by I'm happy to give you a feel of the neighborhood. Thank you.

1:08:09Thank you very much if you want to wait right there. Can I have order in here please? I would like

1:08:16to have order. I am going to remind members of the audience that there is no applause. This is not

1:08:23this is not an entertainment event this is city business and so I'm just trying to be respectful

1:08:33and if we have a lot of outbursts I'm afraid we have security available that will that I will

1:08:39make use of so please I understand your concerns and I understand your your reaction however this

1:08:49is not the place for it so I hope that's the last time I have to say that in this event.

1:08:58I really appreciate your your presentation it was very thoughtful and I I'm sure some of my

1:09:08colleagues may have some questions for you if you'd like to stand by so please committee members do

1:09:13we have any questions for this applicant? Pardon me a delegate seeing none I want to thank you once

1:09:23again for coming forward and making your case thank you very much thank you for the opportunity.

1:09:30Are there any other members of the audience who would like to come forward and speak to this

1:09:36application seeing none madam secretary treasurer do we have anyone on the on the internet who would

1:09:47like to delegate? Chair Smith I can confirm no other delegation requests. Thank you committee

1:09:55members do we have our first of all let me ask mr. Buseman if he has any any comments on the issues

1:10:04that were brought forward? In terms of impact on services and so on that's being accounted for

1:10:11in terms of it will be designed appropriately also to clarify there's no plans for ADUs the

1:10:17backyards really aren't big enough for that there is these are set up and are entitled to have three

1:10:24units per semi as what's approved in the zoning bylaw and being encouraged as a right by the province

1:10:30and by the city council and by city staff and thank you just wait a minute mr. Buseman and let

1:10:39me ask if there's any members of committee who would like to ask a couple of questions members

1:10:44Spears has one for example yes to you mr. Buseman I'm concerned about the the remark about taking

1:10:52down the trees can you confirm or deny that that's in your plan that's probably going to happen

1:10:58there is the tree inventory protection plan that's underway and compensation

1:11:05rules are in place for that I couldn't quote you the details of the compensation

1:11:09but that's in place I mean the one that's basically the only way it's going to work

1:11:16and I have one further question yes to do with the parking that's that's proposed for this

1:11:21for each of the sites each of the lots if the intention is to have

1:11:27three dwellings per side how will the you know what might just have two I should clarify that

1:11:35because we got one parking spot in the garage and one in front right I think we'll just have two

1:11:40and we may end up just two we're going to make sure we meet the parking requirements

1:11:44okay so two then so well I I need to clarify that two three three and I have to think about the

1:11:54parking but the idea is to meet that we're going to meet the parking that's our obligation

1:11:59six we may just push the house back a bit to make that work to have stacked parking that's and

1:12:07that's allowed in zoning bylaw okay that's my questions said it member Spears committee members

1:12:20do we have any other questions I just want to follow that up and make sure that I'm I'm 100

1:12:28percent clear are you suggesting that the the sketch wouldn't be accurate as presented that the

1:12:37the building footprint print would have to be moved back can you can I just dialogue with my

1:12:44just a minute your mic I'm sorry thanks I apologize we can have five meter wide

1:13:45driveways correct me from wrong we can have five meter wide driveways and that's what's

1:13:50going to allow for the three parking spots one in the garage two in front of the grid two in front

1:13:55of the units so that allows for three units three parking spots per yeah our sketch shows yeah

1:14:10that five meters wide I'm looking at an older drawing here that one on the sketch is correct

1:14:20I apologize for the confusion thank you so just to be clear that five meter wide driveway would

1:14:27allow for two essentially stacked parking spots beside each two beside each other like two and

1:14:34a half meters wide each right and then in the garage so there'd be two stacked one in the garage

1:14:40and one in the driveway and then another one adjacent to it okay yeah that's crystal clear

1:14:47thank you I do have a question about oh sorry could we have that back I just want to refer to it

1:14:56thank you very much it's item C garage location shall not project is there any reason

1:15:06like just it presents me as as you know a unnecessary a unnecessary request

1:15:21is this something that's and perhaps what I should do is turn to staff is this allowed under

1:15:31the current zoning bylaw that's under appeal and this is from the older bylaw or is this a new

1:15:41request through you mr chair provision C or minor variance request number C

1:15:49is in line with the 2023 zoning bylaw as approved by city council but it is one of those provisions

1:15:55that is currently under appeal and therefore a minor variance request was made for that provision

1:16:00despite the fact that this proposal conforms with that provision so to be crystal clear

1:16:06item C would be permitted were the zoning bylaw to be the appeal to be heard and and dealt with

1:16:15that is correct yes okay thank you and perhaps this is a question for staff in terms of the

1:16:22um appropriateness of this is this something that the committee has per view over so in other words

1:16:31could we insist that that bylaw that request be removed through mr chair I'm having difficulty

1:16:44understanding your question so you're wondering whether variance C should be removed from the request

1:16:50yes that's that's what I'm asking I'm I'm wondering if that's something that we have the ability to do

1:16:55um the committee could theoretically remove that provision however

1:17:00un or similar to the other four variance requests uh the variance is necessary simply because that

1:17:05is a provision that is under appeal at the Ontario land tribunal so despite the fact that the

1:17:10applicant conforms with that provision a variance is still required in order to bring that into effect

1:17:16as it is uh an under appeal provision uh member ballaban do you want to jump in through through

1:17:24you mr chair so under the old bylaw the variance is required for that budding out of the garage

1:17:34because it it it does really it's really allowed under the new bylaw that's under appeal just one

1:17:46second just one second let me clarify this it's just in reading the present or the 2023 bylaw

1:17:59that wasn't clear to me and so when I see this in this application I

1:18:06I I may have it backwards but I'm I was under the impression that um this is an additional request

1:18:15to the 2023 bylaw so I have looked at the notice in further detail so this is not a provision from

1:18:23the 1995 bylaw this is a provision from the 2023 zoning bylaw right um and the proposal does conform

1:18:31with that provision again just because it is under appeal a variance is required I'm sorry I'm I'm dull

1:18:42I I I just need a little more advice so this is 20 if 2023 were in in effect

1:18:52that wouldn't have to be requested having on it right that is correct yes

1:18:56okay so I've misread the bylaw thank you I don't have any further questions uh committee members

1:19:05do we have any other questions members spears uh through you mr chair to city staff I I would like

1:19:15staff's confirmation that the applicant's statement that two cars side by side is actually okay

1:19:25through the chair to member spears so um parking spaces on residential lots need to have dimensions

1:19:30of 2.5 meters wide by 5.5 meters deep as the driveway of five meters in width is permitted

1:19:37two parking spaces side by side are allowed as well as the one space in the garage so that

1:19:42allows for three parking spaces for the three dwell units thank you for the clarification

1:19:50do we have any other uh question member ballerband no sorry yes go ahead uh member member in no sorry

1:20:02uh one of the recommended conditions for the tree preservation plan is for the sever lots

1:20:09does it include the retained lot through the chair to the staff because it's not it doesn't

1:20:16specifically say about the retained lot the the TIPP through the chair to member membreño

1:20:34so the tree inventory and preservation plan will be required for the entire property not just the

1:20:39severed lot as there will be driveways on both lots right so it is a condition of the severance

1:20:45for the severed lot in theory but the tree inventory and preservation plan will have to

1:20:49encompass encompass the uh entire lot both severed and retained and and just uh addition to that

1:20:58question um where it because in the condition it only talks about the city owned trees does it

1:21:06will it include the boundary trees on the private trees as well again through the chair to member

1:21:13membreño so um the private tree bylaw only applies for lots that are greater than 0.2 hectares in size

1:21:21so for that reason the city has no authority to regulate the private trees on the property

1:21:26but we do have the authority to regulate boundary trees and city owned trees my understanding is

1:21:31there are no boundary trees on the on the boundary of the property but there are two city owned trees

1:21:36that are in front of the property and that's the reason why the TIPP is requested thank you

1:21:46your mic's still on thank you are there any other questions for this applicant

1:21:54seeing none uh committee members what are what is your wish i'm willing to entertain a motion at

1:22:02this point member spears i uh i move that this application be accepted with the conditions

1:22:17recommended by city staff and do we have a seconder member ballaban and uh do we have any discussion

1:22:25on this i'm i'm a little hesitant to support this but um it's my misreading of the uh 2023 zoning

1:22:45bylaw that has introduced that that hesitancy in my mind um i'm i'm not sure that i i can support

1:22:58it as is so um i won't be supporting this if there's no further discussion can i have the vote please

1:23:07mem member madam secretary treasurer i gave you a promotion or a demotion i'm not sure which

1:23:17thank you chair committee members please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the

1:23:22motion which is to approve the the applications with the recommended conditions chair smith

1:23:29opposed member ballaban in favor member membrane in favor member seagull in favor and member spears

1:23:40in favor that's carried mr chair thank you your application has been approved thank you you're

1:23:48welcome may we have the next applicant please madam secretary treasurer ah and i was going to ask

1:24:02you to recall our member the next application is file a-35 slash 24 variances to permit reduced

1:24:17side yard setback and reduced distance between primary dwelling unit and proposed additional

1:24:22dwelling unit for proposed additional dwelling unit in separate building at two pipe street

1:24:27i'll note for those attending remotely if you wish to speak to this application you can do so

1:24:31by calling the number displayed at this on the screen that number is 519-822-1260 extension 2524

1:24:39and staff will give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely i'll also note for the committee

1:24:44members as well as those attending that there was correspondence received after the comment

1:24:48deadline from justin kelly the agent for this application and that correspondence has been

1:24:52circulated to the committee members and staff thank you and i see the applicant online can you state

1:25:01your name and your relationship to the application please for the record uh yes so my name is uh

1:25:07conor parent and i am uh representing justin kelly on this matter thank you and uh was the

1:25:14sign posted as per the planning act it was and have you read the staff comments i have read them

1:25:23yes and you have 10 minutes to address the committee make as much time as you'd like to have that

1:25:30thank you um so are we able to uh to post that site plan the uh labeled sp 1.0 perfect okay so

1:25:41obviously the main intent with this project is to add housing to the property or an additional

1:25:48dwelling unit now i think there may have been some confusion there is an existing garage

1:25:55underneath the proposed second story addition that existing garage is within that setback

1:26:02the proposed second story addition is going to be as per the drawing of 1.5 meters from that setback

1:26:10and then the interior of that existing garage will be renovated incorporating into that additional

1:26:17dwelling unit so that essentially the first point of the uh the side yard setback of point four

1:26:26that's only the portion of the existing garage that's within that setback

1:26:32furthermore in regards to point two the 1.1 meters again it's only the second story addition that

1:26:39would really be in relevance to that because the existing garage is is already in that proximity

1:26:50i understand we have um already received some preliminary comments from the neighbor that

1:26:56they are definitely in favor of this um we've also looked through the uh the adjacent properties and

1:27:04directly across the street we also have a an approved addition or sorry an approved

1:27:11accessory building that that meets the two stories or that that that is two stories

1:27:17just jumping to this point where the the permitted height

1:27:21must be less than five meters but um yeah the variance has been has been approved in the area

1:27:28recently in the past so um yeah that's uh that's that's all the comments i have

1:27:42if you want to uh to discuss i can i can definitely comment on on anything further

1:27:48okay thank you if you want to stand by we'll see if there are any members of the public who

1:27:52would like to speak to this application is there anyone in the chamber who would like to speak to

1:27:58this application yes please come forward can you state your name for the record please mark

1:28:18pap and i own the property um to the north that it would be overlooking and um you have

1:28:2510 minutes that you'd like to make advantage of i'm curious as to um i've seen no elevation shots

1:28:32especially from the north and i'm wondering whether that north wall will not have a window

1:28:37because it's within that five feet of the property line it would be my private yard that he would be

1:28:46looking into or they would be looking into and i'm just curious because i know the owner

1:28:51hasn't reached out very much staff do we have the elevations available that we can project

1:28:58just something because that is the variance is the 4.8 is it not like the that's why you're

1:29:07bringing it back is to put a window there and on the north side that's the south obviously

1:29:20so that's the second well that's the second floor yes and is that a deck going out there

1:29:28or that's just the roof of the garage that's the roof of the garage below so there's no

1:29:32window on the north side no second floor yeah confirm there's no window proposed i'm satisfied

1:29:41okay thank you very much for your attention sir one else in the gallery who would like to speak

1:29:48to this application i don't see anyone sir anyone online madam secretary treasurer

1:30:00chair i can confirm no delegation requests for this file okay um committee do we have any

1:30:07questions of this applicant member spears through you mr chair to the applicant um in the

1:30:13correspondence today there was discussion there was a bit of discussion about the parking and the

1:30:17lack of of a proper parking allocation for the new dwelling unit and the suggestion was

1:30:26floated and agreed by the owner that that they would turn the the building that we are calling a

1:30:33garage that has never been used as a garage into a garage again and not have it for for living purposes

1:30:41um i accept them at their word on that but does that does the project remain feasible if you lose

1:30:49that floor space um the projects it is technically feasible obviously the uh some provisions would

1:30:58have to be made to reduce the size of the the overall floor of the dwelling unit

1:31:05but keeping in mind the the bylaw actually states um that we need to have at least one

1:31:11parking spot that's behind the the main dwelling and um more than six meters away from the garage

1:31:17or sorry from the street line um so in this circumstance i believe that we do have enough

1:31:23parking on site it's really just the requirement it's got to be six meters away we need at least

1:31:28one spot that's six meters away from that street line um which i i think it's it's a bit of a uh

1:31:36of a tough rule to uh to to kind of enforce um as there's lots of properties that uh that kind of

1:31:43are in contravention to this um there's there's lots of garages that have been converted into

1:31:49ad ad use in the past and uh that that don't actually carry that parking spot anymore so

1:31:57i guess in in summary it's not the amount of parking spot it's the location of the parking

1:32:02spot that uh that we do not comply with um in that case the the discussion around or the statement

1:32:12made by in the in the correspondence was that in fact the garage would revert to its its original

1:32:19use or intention is that no longer the case are you are you declining that now and say no we're

1:32:25going to keep it the way it is and we just like the parking variance uh nope don't have to worry about

1:32:31that that's definitely uh still on the table um but up for discussion for sure i i'm i'm not

1:32:43sure this is the place for discussion so if you're saying we'll leave it where it is then we will

1:32:48consider that as a variance and the a or a and if you want to uh uh defer this application and go back

1:32:58and and consider the options again which is certainly a your option um you're you're free to

1:33:06do that and i i i don't want to give you advice but you're certainly free to take another run at it

1:33:13i think that would probably be the recommendation that i would make at this point just because of the

1:33:18there's a couple questions up in the air at this point um so if we are able to defer uh knowing

1:33:24with what we know now that would be that would be preferable uh are you proposing a motion to

1:33:33defer member spirit i'm happy to do that uh yes i i move that this application be deferred

1:33:40okay it's only provided that the applicant is in agreement which it sounds like he is

1:33:45we have a motion to defer there's no debate do i have a seconder

1:33:50member sear as i say there's no debate um madam secretary treasurer can you call leave out please

1:33:58oh sorry is there any discussion seeing none madam secretary treasurer can you call the vote please

1:34:07thank you chair committee members please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the

1:34:11motion which is to defer the application chair smith in favor member balaban in favor

1:34:18member membranio in favor member sear in favor member seagull in favor and member spears in favor

1:34:26that's carried mr chair thank you your application has been deferred thank you very much thank you

1:34:35thank you for that member spears and um at this point um i have made a change to our agenda

1:34:51and i'm going to ask that item 5.9 for um 122 harris street move forward to this position

1:35:00madam secretary treasurer can you call that applicant please the next application is a

1:35:10file a-44 slash 24 variances to permit additional use daycare center and reduced parking spaces for

1:35:17proposed daycare center at 122 harris street i'll note for those attending remotely if you wish to

1:35:23speak to this application you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen that number is

1:35:28519-822-1260 extension 2524 and when you call in staff will give you instructions on how you can

1:35:36delegate remotely is the applicant present yes please come forward can you state your name for

1:35:47the record please yes it's david mccally architect and i'm representing the congregational unitarian

1:35:54congregational um have gulf thank you and have you posted the sign as per the planning act yes we

1:36:02have and have you read staff's comments and um are you in agreement i've read the staff comments and

1:36:09i'm not in agreement with the engineering comment okay well you have 10 minutes to make your case

1:36:17thanks mr chair and members of the committee um i'll have a couple of other people delegating to

1:36:23speak to the uh congregational and the uh daycare operator and they'll follow me in this

1:36:30i just want to talk to the adjacent uses and perhaps we could post the uh the site plan if you will

1:36:38we have a fair of flooring is across the street in one direction we have across the street uh

1:36:44previous convenience store we have a bus stop in front of the site on york road and a pedestrian

1:36:49crosswalk on the intersection and there's a single family dwelling on the east side of the

1:36:55property on york road nearby we have the guelph little theater a block away and the dal corning

1:37:01plant down the road the improvements that we're talking about here are not going to involve

1:37:06any additions onto the building and it'll involve the removal of one garden shed there's a there are

1:37:12two garden sheds there now and they'll install a four foot high fence around the playground area

1:37:18that's an outside play area required by the child care act uh there'll be an improvement of the

1:37:25the area surfaces and the walks and the landscaping uh to address the staff comment

1:37:32i guess basically the staff comment the the rest of the comments from the staff i'm in agreement with

1:37:37but the one for a noise control guideline um i have a number of arguments to be made against that

1:37:44um condition and uh please note that it's a noise control guideline not requirements so there are

1:37:52there is that suggests some flexibility in this the intent of the uh noise control guidelines is

1:38:00stated as comprehensively to provide and protect life livability and healthy public and private

1:38:07spaces it's interpreted in the context of the official plan and the zoning bylaw

1:38:12we've had communication with the engineering staff who made the comment and uh our

1:38:20a fiscal engineer had conversations with him on a professional level as well to find out what the

1:38:26issues were uh with the application and as it turned out it was the road noise so that would

1:38:31be the rose noise from york road to our site and uh the things i wanted to point out is that

1:38:40across the intersection we have lion park and if you can look at the photographs uh if there's

1:38:46one particular photograph that shows the park there's a playground adjacent to that in the park

1:38:53fairly close to the intersection so that's a public playground there that's already there with no

1:38:57protection or mitigation for noise um also we uh we suggested there was a

1:39:05um building set back from york road is as but as far as we can go on the property so here this

1:39:12photograph shows the playground this is taken from the intersection and the entrance to uh

1:39:18to lion park which is a fairly active playground and uh also there's a ball diamond right there as

1:39:24well just at that corner so the building is set back from york road go back to the site plan if

1:39:30you will to post that thank you and uh you'll see that the building is set back as far as we can

1:39:37from york road to and that's a building that was built in 1908 so it has good separation as far as

1:39:44the road is concerned um the building is also a brick construction so it's fairly soundproof as far

1:39:50as the interior is concerned the windows are fairly new within a few years and they're double glazed

1:39:55windows and sealed units and there's a photo of those if you want to see them if you could

1:40:00go back to some of the photos and show the ones of the windows and the elevation of the building

1:40:11i guess this is eating into my timer so i'll just say that the uh there's a garden shed that's there

1:40:18so these are the windows uh that i spoke of there in the entrance to the playground from that door

1:40:23so when i flip through a couple more slides and you'll see the uh the uh yes so that there are two

1:40:31garden sheds there the one in the front is going to be left and the one behind it is going to be

1:40:34removed so that uh lends some separation from york road as well to provide sound separation to the

1:40:41playground uh also the york road elevation of the building is articulated so that the center

1:40:47section of the building is set back even further and that's where the windows are to the uh

1:40:53operating parts of the child care so it's recessed and again we have better sound separation for that

1:41:00the hours of operation for the child care and the operator will be delegating to talk more precisely

1:41:06to that they do have they don't have any evenings weekends or early mornings in terms of their

1:41:12operations so it's during the day so as far as the application is concerned and it's also mentioned

1:41:18in the staff reports is that the that the application meets the general intent and purposely the

1:41:23official plan and the zoning bylaw it's compatible with the neighborhood it's desirable and the

1:41:30appropriate development of the land and is minor in nature and in terms of coming back to the

1:41:36nature of the land there was a child care onsite i was there in 1990 and 1991 when i was designing the

1:41:44the new y looking at the site that was in operation with the child care center that the y was operating

1:41:50at that time so it's been whatever it is 30 years since then so um i guess the the request that we

1:41:59have is to waive the condition of the noise study prepared by the proposed by the engineering staff

1:42:05i'm prepared to ask and answer any questions on that thank you mr chair thank you if you

1:42:10want to wait right there um first we'll see if there are any members of the public who would

1:42:15like to speak to this application are there any members of the public in the gallery who'd like

1:42:21to speak to this application seeing none madam secretary treasurer are there any online chair

1:42:32smith we do have a delegate the name is uh humaira jared i believe she's going to be joining us via

1:42:39phone hello uh hi everyone my name is humaira javid i am here on behalf of the palm tree group

1:42:48which would be the group operating the the daycare and we are very excited to be able to explore this

1:42:54opportunity to provide a service to this community as parents and educators ourselves um uh we are

1:43:03really looking forward to the possibility of operating this child care center out of the

1:43:08well-funeralian congregation space given that there has been historically child care and

1:43:14programming for children that has run out of this place we feel that um uh we would be able to

1:43:22set up this space well for the community so um we are not concerned about the the the traffic

1:43:28noise and its impact on the children given that a lot of the activities will be happening inside

1:43:33of the building which is as mr javid has shared quite sound proof and for the short amount of

1:43:39time the children will be going outside for recess and outdoor activities it will be relatively

1:43:44during the relatively quieter hours during the day so uh with a short amount of time

1:43:51maximum an hour at a time so it won't be as much louder than the regular public areas of the park

1:43:57that children would be accustomed to so we are not concerned about the the traffic noise and its

1:44:02impact on the the uh on the children that would be participating in the another child care center

1:44:10so with that thank you very much for bringing this sometimes

1:44:14thank you if you want to wait right there i'll see if committee members have any questions for

1:44:18you committee members do we have any questions of this member of the public member ballaban

1:44:25through you the chair um i'm wondering is the fence going to be like a solid wood member ballaman

1:44:34i'm more interested in this member of the public we can come circle back to the applicant in a second

1:44:40yeah but she's running the daycare right is i'm just oh you you aren't correct i'm just wondering if

1:44:48she's she's aware like i would assume she's part of the construction of this whole are you part of

1:44:59the construction of the whole daycare operation the person on the phone uh yes so we'll be uh

1:45:10running it and um yeah complying with all of the requirements to make sure the space is set up in

1:45:15the ways it seems to be so that means it will i i expect it has to be a solid wood fence um which

1:45:25would probably be some sort of an acoustic block from the road as well i'm hoping i'm thinking

1:45:33yes i believe so thank you um any other questions of this uh delegate okay uh thank you very much

1:45:49you can hang on and listen if you'd like and do we have any other i believe we have another

1:45:56delegate chair smith there is another delegate um the name is carrie mcdonald and that individual

1:46:04joining us via phone as well okay can you hear us can you hear me we can indeed you have 10 minutes

1:46:18to address the committee and welcome oh i get another 10 minutes um good afternoon and thank

1:46:25you to the committee for your kind consideration of our application um my name is carrie mcdonald

1:46:30i'm the president of unitarian congregation of guelph um and i just wanted to just point a few

1:46:36things out one is that we're a long-standing place of worship in guelph not necessarily at 122 harris

1:46:43but we've been there since 1960 um i also wanted to reiterate what david said we have hosted um

1:46:51daycare in the late 80s and early 90s um what may not have come up as well is we also hold

1:46:57hosted the calc program with the guelph public school system and that did involve kids not young

1:47:03children but children in our in our building as well and um i'd love to tell you more about

1:47:09how great we are but i think that the focus is on the noise and i'd also want to reiterate the fact

1:47:14that we do hold um services on sundays um and you know there are people in the building and

1:47:25you know lots of things come up in a community but noise has never been one of them so just to

1:47:30reiterate noise really has not been a problem for our community or a congregation um up to this point

1:47:40but other than that um we also feel strongly that a daycare is a service to the world and um we have

1:47:46been a hopefully a good member of the community and um just hoping that you'll take all of this

1:47:53into consideration and again thank you very much for taking the time to listen to us thank you very

1:47:58much uh if you want to stand by committee members do we have any questions seeing none thank you very

1:48:06much for your thoughts thank you and uh member i i'm wondering if there are any other um delegation

1:48:15requests chair smith no other delegation requests okay um committee members uh questions member spears

1:48:26yeah through you mr chair to city staff i i just want to be clear about the the condition that

1:48:31engineering suggested or suggests uh i think we i i assumed the concern was the noise the

1:48:39children would make in the playground and the possible impact on the neighbors and now what

1:48:44i'm hearing is it's a concern for the children for the noise from the road which is it through the

1:48:51chair to members spears it's the noise from the adjacent road that is the concern okay i appreciate

1:48:59that thank you um any other questions yes go ahead uh through you chair to staff um did the

1:49:09conversations with the acoustic engineer change this commented in any way uh through the chair to

1:49:18members seagull no thank you member sarah yeah through the chair to um city staff my question is

1:49:30is this a condition that is applied regularly to like is it based on the size of the road or

1:49:36proximity to road or i i'm not that familiar with this condition through the chair to members sarah

1:49:45this is a noise study requirement is consistent with other development applications for daycares

1:49:52that have come through recently and it is through an art it's an arterial road a railway or other

1:50:00stationary sources where we would ask for that yes member seagull uh through the chair to staff this

1:50:12is about the parking um can someone just clarify in the memo it said they're requesting a variance

1:50:20to zero parking spots but based on the timing of the uses of the building they're still supplying

1:50:27sufficient parking so is this request for variance just a technicality based on dedicated

1:50:33parking or how does that work uh through the chair to member seagull um so the staff comments

1:50:43is a difference between the wording for provision and the rate of parking um so the rate of parking

1:50:49requesting is zero uh but the provision the actual amount uh i believe it's 14 including two accessible

1:50:56spaces um so while the rate would be zero they still have enough parking uh actually in supply

1:51:02because the use for the place of worship and the daycare at two separate times of the week thank you

1:51:16members pears through you mr chair to the applicant uh i i want to i'm sorry to keep going on about

1:51:23the noise piece but uh it it sort of changes the uh the tenor of the situation is your concern about

1:51:31a noise study the cost of doing the study through chair uh yes it is primarily to do with the cost

1:51:40and it's a cost um we've spoken to our acoustical engineer and uh the study is really a technicality

1:51:49it's not going to provide any additional remediation as far as the noise any change in the noise there

1:51:55most of the operations are in the basement of the of the building and as you saw from the photographs

1:52:02there are fairly small windows there um so the children obviously uh child care as you can probably

1:52:07appreciate is a fairly noisy environment to be in regardless so the chance of the children being

1:52:13disturbed by the noise of the traffic from outside is pretty unlikely so i've the experience of

1:52:20designing many many uh child care facilities in gualph elsewhere and for the school board and for

1:52:25the y and uh we haven't found noise to be an issue on fairly major roads actually and closer to railway

1:52:32lines than this particular site it's a fairly small uh child care operation i'd be there's 30 36

1:52:39children in there so it's not as nearly as large as some of the other ones in in schools and that

1:52:43type of thing so uh we really see the uh that's your question the the provision of a noise study

1:52:51is probably technically something that's standard but uh i think it has you have to look at specifically

1:52:57sites because for this particular site it's of no value to us and uh you know it it's measurements

1:53:03and costs i believe it's around $5,500 that they have to spend on this and we'd rather spend that

1:53:08money it's a not-for-profit organization and uh you know it is very onerous for them to do that

1:53:13that this does affect their survival actually i appreciate the clarification any other questions

1:53:23of this applicant seeing none uh committee members what is your wish um i move that we accept this

1:53:39application as it was applied for and remove and and not consider the condition in fact so i don't

1:53:45know if i'm saying that correctly we'll uh approve as applied for no conditions without condition

1:53:55and do we have seconder member balaban uh do we have any discussion on this okay that sounds

1:54:07pretty straightforward to me um there's no discussion so uh madam secretary treasurer

1:54:15can you call the vote please thank you chair committee members please indicate your vote

1:54:20by responding in favor or opposed to the motion which is to approve the application without

1:54:25any conditions chair smith in favor member balaban in favor member mumbrenio in favor

1:54:34member seyer in favor member seagull in favor and member spears in favor let's carry mr chair

1:54:42thank you your application has been approved you're free to go thank you um at this point

1:54:59we're going to take a uh a few minutes um break to uh balance things out

1:55:07humanitarianly and um i i'm going to suggest uh 15 minutes is that uh is that good for the committee

1:55:17okay so members of the public um it is now uh 25 after and we will resume at 22

2:16:54ladies and gentlemen thank you for your patience and i'd like to uh call the meeting of the

2:17:01committee of adjustment for june 27th back into order um and uh may we have the next applicant

2:17:10please madam secretary treasurer the next applications are files b 26 24 to b 28 24 files

2:17:26a 36 24 to a 39 24 consent to create three new residential lots with one retained residential

2:17:33lot related variances to permit garage width area and location driveway width and required parking

2:17:39space for proposed seven and retained lots at 34 ridgeway avenue i'll note for those um

2:17:47watching the hearing online that wish to speak to this application um you can do so by calling

2:17:52the number displayed on the screen that number is 519-822-1260 extension 2524 and when you call

2:17:59in staff will give you instructions on how you can delegate remotely i'll also note for the

2:18:04committee's benefit as well as those attending that correspondence was received after the comment

2:18:09deadline from jill coping and david and shantel raymond with concerns about the applications

2:18:15and that correspondence has been circulated to the committee members um and staff and the applicant

2:18:21as well thank you there's the applicant present welcome can you state your name and your relationship

2:18:28for the record please jeff buesman of van harten surveying on behalf of the property owner thank

2:18:34you mr buesman and can you tell me if the sign was posted as per the planning act yes it was

2:18:39and have you read staff's comments yes i have and you have 10 minutes to address the committee

2:18:44thank you the this application on ridgeway is to create a total of four parcels each having

2:18:54semi-detached dwelling units again this is in conformance with the new zoning bylaw the lots

2:19:01are at 9.1 meters wide the minimum width for semis is seven and a half so they're wider

2:19:08the lots are about 500 square meters in size the minimum size is 230 square meters

2:19:14uh the severance sketch shows the units the plan is also to construct adus in the back adus

2:19:20accessory dwelling units so it'd be a separate unit in in the backyard of each one all in and

2:19:27would be in conformance with zoning the plan is to have three parking spots uh one in the garage

2:19:34two in the front of the garage with five meter widths um uh driveway so that's two spots in front

2:19:41of the garage uh as mentioned in previous application we got five minor variances they're all minor

2:19:48they're all technical in nature and i guess i want to clarify we have a zoning bylaw 2023 it's been

2:19:55approved for the most part there's a bunch of details that are under appeal one of the appeals

2:20:01is from the wealth and district home builders and and some of that appeal was some of these

2:20:07specific things if anything the appeal wanted to make these more stringent in in ten and um uh or

2:20:15let's let me put it this way less humanity space for example i'm not talking about these five

2:20:20specific things the weird part that we have is now these properties are l rl one before there are

2:20:28one b r1b didn't allow semis now we have rl one which allows semis but some of the rules associated

2:20:38with semis in the in the new bylaw are under appeal meaning they're sort of almost like we've got a

2:20:44whole we got these these rules that are are existing for that we want the city wants and all we're

2:20:51asking is please bring these rules in to make it apply to this development we're not asking for any

2:20:57breaks in these so it's really really a technical thing and as soon as this appeal is done these would

2:21:03all be uh uh they'd all be permitted uses or permitted details of this property we know that

2:21:13the province has been working on policies and and plans to create housing we all everybody in this

2:21:19room knows we need housing one of the things that the province has put in place was the right to have

2:21:27three units per parcel i think we all know that the city of guelph is endorsed this philosophy

2:21:33and the city of guelph has come up with this new zoning bylaw which for which is which is a significant

2:21:39change and that significant change is that many neighborhoods in guelph uh were set up to be only

2:21:46single family detached dwellings now the significant change is that we're going to have semis and

2:21:52triplex type units in many many neighborhoods if you look at older parts of guelph um i'm stunned as

2:22:00to how often i see a semi-detached unit or a multi-unit right in mix of many single family

2:22:06dwellings so it existed a long time ago then there was a tone to say no we want to segregate a little

2:22:13bit to say single family here semi-detached here but in the in the goal of intensification the city

2:22:20of guelph council has endorsed this idea of to have different types of housing in neighborhoods

2:22:27neighborhoods throughout guelph everywhere we call rl one which is a pretty dominant zoning for

2:22:34residential areas for the city of guelph city guelph has um you know approved this bylaw we know most

2:22:42of it as i said has been approved except for these specific items so what this creates is opportunity

2:22:52to create development of lots that are fairly large and in this case this isn't a big one and we can

2:23:02create four units in this case 9.1 meters wide and 500 square meters each they're going to be

2:23:07still quite large um this is going to be throughout the throughout the city and they're always going

2:23:13to hear complaints or concerns about this being on this street or this neighborhood

2:23:22there's no distinction in the zoning bylaw or in the principles in place to say we want it in this

2:23:28little area or that little area or no not this area it's for the whole city so i'm it's uh it

2:23:36there's always a sentiment of i don't like it on this street but maybe in another neighborhood

2:23:43but the reality is the this is a new this is new this is new and maybe one of the

2:23:50this this this is new in that we're going to see many more applications of this nature

2:23:55from a variety of different people city staff supports the applications because it follows the

2:24:02policies the official plan including and they've considered the word is in their report is gentle

2:24:08intensification it all conforms to zoning quite handedly this development

2:24:18again any conditions related to engineering grading storm water management tree protection

2:24:25we have the conditions in place for this application that to address all those different

2:24:30matters this is yeah this is an opportunity to create an infill development and we're going

2:24:43to see many more in wealth and and this is what the city wealth council wants and and is endorsed

2:24:51in their zoning bylaw i'd be happy to answer questions from the committee mr chair thank you

2:24:57thank you mr. Buseman and thank you for being so concise um are there any um

2:25:05i'm sure that there are going to be members of the public who'd like to speak to this in the gallery

2:25:09but first i'm going to ask if there are any online on the telephone or via the internet

2:25:18madam secretary treasurer mr chair we haven't got any through um online but we have a number

2:25:25online but we have a number that are in person waiting to delegate i understand there are a number

2:25:30in person i just wanted to be clear that we we weren't going to have to then go to

2:25:37questions electronically okay we have delegates um already registered and

2:25:44madam secretary treasurer can you call for the first one mary rife thank you can you state

2:26:06your name for the record i am mary rife and before you get started just a little bit about decorum

2:26:16i just want to remind the members of the audience about a decorum in this this hearing and one of

2:26:22the things that i mentioned in my opening remarks is about keeping this to new information so if this

2:26:30delegate or other delegates have already made your point you're happy we're happy to have you come

2:26:36forward and we're pleased to have you come forward to make your point however if it's already been made

2:26:42just say so that i agree with the last delegate so i've taken enough of your time so you have

2:26:5010 minutes to address the committee and welcome thank you mr chair my name is mary rife i have lived

2:26:57in guelph for over 50 years 40 at my present location on the corner of malvern and arkall road

2:27:04i love guelph it and it rightly deserves the designation of one of the best places in canada

2:27:11to live my neighborhood is beautiful well kept with a pride of ownership malvern ridgeway is a

2:27:19community of friendly families who look out for one another we deeply take to heart that guelph

2:27:28needs to gently have more density some of us have built up or out to accommodate extended families

2:27:37some rent out portions of their homes some are adding additional dwelling units as we speak

2:27:44we are already doing our part in solving the housing situation none of us would mind if 34

2:27:53ridgeway was developed from one house to three dwelling units and that the owner lived there

2:28:00that would be gentle density it would be very welcome part of guelph's housing issue is the fact

2:28:07that connoisseur go college and the university of guelph expect the city to provide housing for

2:28:14their steeply increasing enrollment if these schools had to provide housing for their own students

2:28:21there would be absolutely no housing issues in guelph for the people who live and work here

2:28:29if we keep building more housing and the schools just kept up upping their enrollment nothing is

2:28:35solved we shouldn't let the greed of these schools ruin our beautiful city let me tell you from

2:28:44personally experience what happens when you have over intensification as i said i live an arkel road

2:28:52across from me four beautiful houses were taken out and 91 condos built on the same spot

2:29:01i have had had to live with that huge intensification dog fights are daily occurrence everybody in

2:29:10those condos has a dog um neighbors screaming at one another twice that's happened there's a lot of

2:29:19those units that are rented out to university students twice i've had to call the police because

2:29:25drunken parties spilled over onto arkel road every every time for celebrations st patrick's day

2:29:35halloween homecoming football games whatever it's party central i'm really tired of it the the biggest

2:29:43issue i had was at 2 a.m i have this huge maple tree in my front yard just in front of my bedroom

2:29:51and it used to have a tree for it in it at 2 a.m 20 drunken university students decided to have a

2:29:57party at 2 a.m i don't want this in my neighborhood one of the students actually passed out in the

2:30:05tree fell 20 feet broke his arm i've lived 34 years in my neighborhood not one of these neighbors

2:30:13have had dog fights or screaming fit or decided to party in my tree at 2 a.m that's what happens when

2:30:22you have over intensification higher population densities come with major problems not just parking

2:30:31and traffic and storm sewers and water concerns but higher crime abs and landlords deterioration

2:30:37of properties i don't want guelph to become a detroit or los angeles or even parts of toronto

2:30:44and brampton with uncontrolled growth what is gentle two and a half years or two years ago a loaf

2:30:53of bread was two dollars now it's four what if it was times 12 24 dollars that intensification

2:31:00that's definitely not gentle our municipal taxes are around 8 000 i can't imagine if it increased by

2:31:0812 times what this is proposing not gentle one house on ridgeway taken out replaced by three

2:31:17that would be gentle everybody would be in agreement you the committee of adjustment

2:31:26have it in your power to say whether guelph will remain a beautiful living livable city

2:31:34i pray that you decide wisely i want to thank you for your time your wisdom your caring and concern thank you

2:31:46thank you very much for your comments we do appreciate them and if you would wait right

2:31:50there let me ask my colleagues if they have any questions for you committee members do we have

2:31:55any questions of this delegation seeing none thank you once again sincerely for your comments

2:32:02madam secretary treasurer may we have the next delegation

2:32:06shane and christine hamilton welcome can you state your name for the record please

2:32:26christine hamilton shane hamilton

2:32:30welcome and you have 10 minutes to address the committee okay okay okay um what i thought i would

2:32:37do with would just quickly start with uh reading a little piece out of the official plan since it

2:32:45was mentioned earlier by the other gentleman um if i could just quickly say that nine section

2:32:51nine three one of the official plan outlines um 11 basically 11 criteria that the committee must

2:33:00consider and those criteria include uh building form scale okay so building form that uh uh

2:33:13uh plan that that that that i that i've seen from them does not conform to the existing neighborhood

2:33:22um and i'll go on to say that the uh objectives of it is that the uh residential neighborhoods

2:33:29will accommodate compatible compatible residential infill and intensification so the building form

2:33:38of of this proposed building is not that of the neighborhood the building scale is not that of

2:33:44the neighborhood the building height i suppose is two stories setbacks i'm not sure to tell you the

2:33:51truth massing is not that of the area appearance and siting is not that of the area and design

2:33:59character and orientation with the building in the immediate vicinity is not is not so there's a

2:34:05number of items that uh that conflicts with uh that design the other thing the other thing that

2:34:17i wanted to say is while we're on the subject of intensification um intensification uh as i

2:34:28understand it is intended to be to take place on main ontario roadways and uh that is so that uh

2:34:38those roadways would would would have sidewalks street lighting and bus routes so that uh the

2:34:46people that live there obviously can use those facilities but uh um uh melbourne and richway

2:34:54do not have sidewalks do not have street lighting and do not have bus routes we have some street

2:35:00lighting but well we do have street lighting but there's a few one actually ironically is right

2:35:06in front of my house but but um we don't have uh full street lighting around so it so it is quite

2:35:12dark but the point is is um um i think one of the big things is uh the sidewalks we don't have sidewalks

2:35:21and we don't have shoulders and we don't have storm sewers we have ditches this is a country road

2:35:27so it's very narrow um so um i think that if we and the other thing that i wanted to mention too

2:35:38was we talk about this these uh these uh semis three semis and in fact it's it's going to be

2:35:47we haven't uh i think the interesting thing is not really what well said it's what hasn't been said

2:35:53and if if if you look at the floor plans on these these three buildings they include five

2:36:00bedrooms on the second floor three bedrooms on the first floor common bathroom on the second floor

2:36:07common bathroom in the kitchen on the main floor you can call that a semi i would almost call that

2:36:13a rooming house and apparently it's going to be used by students for the most part we assume

2:36:22so the other thing is um let me see so the junction between melbourne and ridgeway

2:36:34uh i has been already approved pre-approved for three residential lots so so what happens is

2:36:44is if we have these uh so it's anticipated about 40 people living there so if we have 40 people

2:36:51living in this in this complex then these three buildings that have been approved for

2:36:59for the quarter of melbourne and ridgeway that would block access to brock road school where

2:37:06people would walk across to take the bus so now they won't be able to walk across they're gonna

2:37:13have to be you're gonna have 40 people marching up and down ridgeway and melbourne in particular

2:37:18melbourne to get to the bus or to drive possibly so so that's really going to overload our neighborhood

2:37:29so that's what i'm thinking my go ahead okay my only comment is that i thought the reason for

2:37:38intensification and it made sense to me when i heard about it through the government levels

2:37:43is to provide affordable housing and rentals are not affordable housing that's all i need to say

2:37:53thank you very much um i have taken note of some of your comments if you want to wait right there

2:37:58some of my colleagues may have some questions committee members do we have any questions of this

2:38:03delegation seeing none i want to thank you very much for you coming and presenting your point of

2:38:11view thank you thank you thank you madam secretary treasurer may have the next app pardon me delegate

2:38:19adriana basso welcome can you state your name for the record please uh yes it's adriana basso

2:38:39you have 10 minutes to address the committee you can make as much time as you'd like okay thank you

2:38:45mr chair and the committee for letting me speak today um i will say most of my comments that i have

2:38:52prepared are in line with what has been said before i do agree that the application of severance

2:38:59on 34 ridgeway um should be refused um i my mom and my sister have been longtime residents of

2:39:07malvern crescent and have seen the community evolve in harmony with the housing demands

2:39:12that have come with our growing population um in response to gentleness intensification um our

2:39:20neighborhood has evolved responsibly to the call of gentle density practices such as basement

2:39:27apartments housing additions and accessory dwelling units so we are seeing more rental

2:39:33properties more families into our neighborhood um and these measures measures have effectively

2:39:40addressed our community's housing needs while still preserving the neighborhood's character

2:39:45and respecting the planning act regulations however the proposal for 34 ridgeway deviates

2:39:51from these guidelines and requirements the plan as it lies is to sever the property into two semi

2:39:57detached dwellings um and to add detached buildings in the rear yard the plan to replace a single

2:40:05dwelling with semi-detached units and then some illuminates the probability of this property

2:40:12now holding 10 to 12 bedrooms and therefore housing 40 individuals on one street which is

2:40:20more in on more individuals on one property than there are on the street of ridgeway itself most

2:40:26likely um and this severance application clearly deviates not only from the definition of gentle

2:40:36intensification set out from city planning but also deviates from section 931 of the official plan

2:40:43which asks which concerns itself with building form scale height setbacks and compatibility with

2:40:48the existing neighborhood um so leaving this with the committee it is clear that the application on

2:40:5534 ridgeway and the with the residents concerns um this application relies not just with safety

2:41:03noise traffic or neighborhood appeal even though these are important too um there are real inconsistencies

2:41:10with the application highlighting the ways in which this severance is not only egregious but is also

2:41:16non-compliant with regulations in place i don't stand up here to say that the housing issue should

2:41:21not be left to just sort itself out or that we don't want to partake in ways to help alleviate

2:41:26the shortage however the answer is not in approving an application such as this one that is weighted

2:41:32down by its inconsistencies and potential harms it raises to the existing street thank you thank you

2:41:39very much and thank you for being concise committee members do we have any questions of this delegate

2:41:46seeing none thank you very much for um presenting your ideas to the committee today thank you

2:41:53madam secretary treasurer may we have the next delegate you may be armist good afternoon

2:42:23and welcome uh please state your name for the record please you may be armist

2:42:29and you have 10 minutes to address the committee thank you so much

2:42:33some i live in malibu crescent which is adjacent to the ridgeway thank you for giving me the opportunity

2:42:39to speak speaking in public to revise me but i believe this matter is important enough to overcome my fear

2:42:47i believe my neighbors have already said what i wanted to say so i will be very it will be very

2:42:52concise um this is causing me significant anxiety as i feel that my major life investment

2:42:59is being threatened i'm concerned that home owners voices are not being heard and we are being

2:43:04dictated in how to live if this project proceeds it may set a dangerous precedent i'm not that worried

2:43:12about one house having 40 bedrooms which i am by more even more concerned about this becoming the

2:43:20new norm in the neighborhood and having hundreds of them um we the citizens of well are being forced

2:43:27to address an issue that university has created i chose a quiet neighborhood where my kids who walk

2:43:34and play safely and this could go away very quickly don't you think that all neighbors which we are

2:43:41around should have a say in what's being brought into the community uh while i'm not opposed to

2:43:48intensification in fact i even thought about creating some tiny homes in the back maybe at

2:43:53some point in the future i am against excessive uncontrolled intensification in residential

2:43:59areas across wealth townhouses or duplexes might be sensible but 40 bedrooms on a single lot is not

2:44:08when do we say a stop do we say when we have 300 as other neighbors have said before we have

2:44:16a narrow street with no sidewalks and only ditches we are worried about all the parking spaces that

2:44:23they are going to have we are talking about 40 bedrooms and i believe we're providing six or

2:44:28eight parking spots where are all these people going to park what's going to happen with the safety

2:44:34of my kids when they play in the streets we don't have enough space even right now there was a survey

2:44:40on richway that discussed about having parking in only one of the sites because the way it is right

2:44:47now that is not enough space for fire trucks and different trucks to go through so i'm also worried

2:44:54that the parking spaces that are going to be brought is going to also make these not feasible

2:45:00and that's all for now this is only the only things that i wanted to say thank you so much for

2:45:06for listening thank you very much if you want to wait right there our my colleagues may have

2:45:12some questions unless you're associate wants to address the committee committee members do we

2:45:19have any questions of this delegation seeing none thank you very much sincerely for listening

2:45:27appreciate it madam secretary treasurer may we have the next delegation jenna hardy welcome can

2:45:53you state your name for the record please yes my name is jenna hardy welcome and you have 10 minutes

2:46:01to address the committee awesome thank you i appreciate your time and consideration today

2:46:06and we'll keep it brief um so my intent really is to talk about the safety of the residents of the

2:46:13neighborhood and hopefully incoming residents of the neighborhood the need to keep the intent of

2:46:18our neighborhood and also to preserve the integrity of our ecosystem so we've talked about the safety

2:46:25concerns that we have as um and so specifically around safety concerns if we have the potential

2:46:33of 40 new renters coming on to a new quiet street we've already mentioned the fact that there are

2:46:40no sidewalks i would also like to just mention that many young children walk to school on these

2:46:45streets every day that we have elderly neighbors who use these streets to walk around and engage

2:46:51with different members of the community and you know the parking and the additional vehicular

2:46:58traffic is definitely of concern because pedestrians like lists and cars share that roadway today

2:47:05and so with the addition of the ad that was mentioned by the applicant today that's another

2:47:09parking spot that's required on top of the three already proposed the other parts are around the

2:47:17neighborhood intent and the continuity so as mentioned this application is a 9.1 meter recommendation

2:47:26for the the lot width and so the smallest lot in our neighborhood is currently 15 meters so that's a

2:47:34reduction of 40 percent so in my mind that is not keeping with the current neighborhood intent

2:47:40also around protecting the ecosystem um storm water management is definitely a concern we've

2:47:46seen that there's been other builds around us that haven't properly managed for storm water

2:47:50management and we see flooding on our streets which cause additional safety concerns um so we are

2:47:56replacing what is currently a large lot with a smaller home with an immense amount of cement

2:48:03and so how is that all going to drain properly and what assurances are made for neighbors

2:48:09that there will be proper drainage the proposal goes to talk about gentle density and similar to

2:48:16one of the previous speakers a 16 time increase in the number of people in a single lot is not

2:48:22gentle density it states that gentle density should have a minimal impact on the existing community

2:48:28I think the concerns that we brought up today and I'm sure others will continue to bring up

2:48:33is not a minimal impact and I agree before that if this goes through that this is setting a precedent

2:48:40and so that needs to be as part of the consideration you received over 40 letters related to this

2:48:46application which shows the engagement that this community and this neighborhood has about this

2:48:51proposal and one of our concerns is that the applicant didn't come to speak to us and collaborate

2:48:58and talk about this proposal to give us the opportunity to provide feedback

2:49:03and come to more of a better understanding before we got to this committee today so with that I will

2:49:08complete thank you very much for your presentation if you want to wait right there committee members

2:49:16do we have any questions of this applicant um I do have one you had mentioned 40 rental units

2:49:2540 bedrooms 40 bedrooms of the potential of 40 new individuals there could be more than that if

2:49:31they share a bedroom thank you very much for that clarification and I don't see any other

2:49:40questions so again thank you once again for your presentation thank you for your time you're welcome

2:49:48Madam Secretary treasurer may we have the next app or delegate Peter mcaskill welcome can you state

2:50:09your name for the record please yes it's peter mcaskill welcome mr mcaskill you have 10 minutes

2:50:15to address the committee great thank you mr chair and members of the committee I really appreciate

2:50:20the opportunity to share my concerns with you and I'm speaking this afternoon on behalf of myself

2:50:26and my wife lorraine who's also in the gallery today if I could jump right to the request

2:50:34um our respectfully I would request that the uh the committee uh after you heard all of the

2:50:42opinions on this proposal if uh your motion could be to defer a decision on this proposal

2:50:52the reason I'm asking you to consider that as your motion is uh jenna hardy actually touched on it

2:50:58in spite of our best efforts we've been unable to sit down and communicate with the proponent

2:51:03uh you heard that as well from a previous application no contact no communication and we

2:51:11are so eager to work with the proponent to create a gentle intensification project on richway

2:51:18that we can all be proud of that we can all get behind that we can all support so I would just

2:51:24ask that you consider that as your motion at the end of the discussion mr chair now if I could

2:51:29just speak a little bit more about the rationale for that request some of you folks might have been

2:51:35with me uh back at the end of February when the city held an open house on gentle intensification

2:51:40and what an event that was we saw examples of gentle intensification that were just so exciting

2:51:47and I came away from that really really excited about the things that we could make happen to

2:51:53build this very very critically needed additional housing rental homeowners whatever that that

2:52:01workshop was absolutely amazing and thinking back on it there were two success enablers

2:52:10two things that all those examples of gentle intensification had in common the first is that

2:52:16the outcome was truly hardly noticeable in the neighborhoods that was the amazing thing

2:52:22I couldn't have believed it till I saw the examples and heard from the people that

2:52:25had experienced those projects the second critical enabler of success for gentle intensification

2:52:34was that the projects did not become create a safety hazard for the people that already

2:52:41lived in the neighborhood or for those folks that were so looking forward to welcoming we want to be

2:52:46safe we want our children to be safe and we so much want these new folks that are coming in to

2:52:52live in these projects to be safe as well so those were the two gentle or pardon me those were the

2:52:58two success enablers that I came away from from the workshop and then I came away with two feelings

2:53:04as well first excitement that I've already shared with you and the second feeling was pride and maybe

2:53:09that's a sin I don't know but I was so proud of Bridgeway Avenue because we're already well on track

2:53:16in gentle intensification initiatives we welcome newcomers we understand the importance of newcomers

2:53:22coming in when you get to be my age the more young people on the street the more chance they'll

2:53:27shovel my driveway for me so I'm 100 behind it too but um when you find one let me know I will

2:53:38got nervous trying to make a joke lost my trade of thought I apologize chair

2:53:43um the second I guess what I'd like to say is that on Ridgeway I'm so proud that we're already

2:53:52well down the track on intensification we're not fighting it we need it we welcome it

2:53:57some examples have been shared already basement apartments on our street

2:54:01lots being subdivided to put a second house on there we got our first adu I'm so proud of that

2:54:07it's really impressive looking um but what I'm disappointed to share with you today

2:54:14is the application before you does not meet either of those critical success enablers

2:54:21and that's why I'm asking you to defer the mo defer the approval defer defer decision I guess I

2:54:27should say to give us a chance to work with the proponent to make something really really great

2:54:32happen something that'll build on those two success enablers something we want to have on the street

2:54:40we're proud to have on the street and the second success enabler one that's not going to create

2:54:45a huge safety risk for anybody um I think the problem with this proposal is its cookie cutter

2:54:57it's the exact same build being force fit into a variety of different locations without a

2:55:05consideration for the uniqueness of each um area that they're trying to cram it into and one of the

2:55:14reasons it's cookie cutter is because the proponent hasn't really saw fit to sit down and chat with us

2:55:21and listen to our ideas and our concerns they come with the same set of plans I'm just trying to be

2:55:26respectful chair mr chair here if I'm not sounding that way I apologize but essentially it's the

2:55:31same set of plans and they're building it and variety varies around wealth that's probably very

2:55:37cost efficient but the challenge on Ridgeway is that and other people have said this and I apologize

2:55:44you've asked us not to repeat things but I think it's so important that the committee here over and

2:55:48over again they're trying to put this on Ridgeway Avenue the street is narrower than the standard

2:55:53for city streets we don't have sidewalks we don't even have shoulders on the road we have ditches

2:55:59right at each side of the road and these good folks are hoping to put 40 or 50 individuals

2:56:06on a lot that used to have one family and the traffic and the pedestrian traffic and vehicle

2:56:13traffic that's going to bring it's almost um call us to suggest that fine let's go ahead and do this

2:56:20all of those cars competing with children families seniors all walking on a street with

2:56:31two-way traffic that's narrow this is a recipe for disaster so it doesn't mean shut down gentle

2:56:37to densification intensification on Ridgeway it means can we work with these good folks to come

2:56:42up with a project that keeps us all safe and makes us all proud and by by us I also mean these new

2:56:49folks that are coming into the neighborhood I thought there was another point I wanted to make

2:56:54chair through you to the committee but I'm afraid I forgot what it is at the moment so perhaps I can

2:56:59just repeat my request for your consideration is if you could defer a decision this evening this

2:57:06afternoon and help us encourage the proponent to work with us to come up with a project that

2:57:12really builds on those two success enablers they're welcome in the community in the street

2:57:18because we hardly notice them they look really good to us and secondly they don't put us at risk

2:57:24and by us I mean the folks that live on Ridgeway now but also these newcomers the 40 to 50 of

2:57:29these folks who we're looking forward to welcoming into the community so uh through you chair thank

2:57:34you to the committee for the chance to speak thank you very much um and um I'm sorry that I interrupted

2:57:42you and maybe lost your train of thought. I threw off my pattern on jokes there yes.

2:57:49If you want to wait right there um committee members do we have any questions of this delegate?

2:57:55Thanks very much and I've taken note of some of your comments so please enjoy the rest of the

2:58:02meeting. Thank you chair. Can we have the next delegate please? Xiao Obo Liu. Good evening and

2:58:26can you state your name for the record please? Mr. Obo Liu. Thank you you have 10 minutes to

2:58:31address the committee please make use of as much or as little as you'd like. I uh thank you uh

2:58:37Mr. Chair I had a power point as well. Staff do we have that? We won't start your clock till it's up

2:58:50here we go. All right so this one is just to make my position clear um I think my neighbors

2:58:58being very vocal about this and they've mentioned it the points very well I just want to

2:59:02put things into perspective and mention some facts and past um past decisions the communities

2:59:09has made so the first one is uh I think the I believe you know it's not general density

2:59:16so the proposed development has a area about 0.2 hectares and they're proposing for 12 units on

2:59:23there and that's almost equivalent to 60 units per hectare and according to the infrastructure

2:59:31development enterprise services report for shaping wealth house analysis and strategy

2:59:38back then there could be uh I guess if it's 60 units per hectare it's actually in the medium density

2:59:44sort of zone um there's also 40 bedrooms in 0.2 hectare and that's like 200 people per hectare

2:59:51and this is only um based on the three as of right and I know well we know the city is actively

2:59:58looking at four units as of right and that could potentially grow to 16 units and you know 48 bedrooms

3:00:08yeah next slide please so this is just the reference to the uh I guess our official plan section

3:00:179.3.1.1 about proposed for residential lot info will become part of with the general

3:00:23frontage of lots in the immediate vicinity so the screenshot here is the sort of the lots that's

3:00:29around 34 Ridgeway you can see immediately in front all the lots are 28 feet wide and then there's a

3:00:36neighboring 120 feet lot and then the folks back there on Oak Ridge which is right behind the lot

3:00:43they have a 60 feet frontage and what is being proposed is roughly uh I think slightly under 30

3:00:49feet and we had a and then I have a reference to the application back in April for 7 Ucestry

3:00:58and it was for a 10 meter frontage requested for consent and the surround was 15 meters and that was

3:01:05denied next slide please and then also this one I think it touches on the safety of the neighborhood

3:01:15so we did have a measure of the street the street is under seven meters wide all around including

3:01:23Malvern and there's the uh I guess it's covering the translation the closed cavern is covering some

3:01:32of these slides I think let me see there sorry it's just too many vehicles so based on you know the

3:01:4212 units assuming they're all going to families that's roughly 18 vehicles right but we know from

3:01:48the floor plans it looks like their majority going to be student rentals and that could potentially

3:01:54more vehicles on the street on a under seven meter wide street next slide please and then the last

3:02:09slide I think I want to touch on is the transparency so the what's what's been submitted to the city

3:02:15where what was on the commuter of adjustment the sketch only showed the I guess the four semi

3:02:22detached dwellings in the front but we believe the applicant is actually considering ADUs in the

3:02:28back as well which I have visually here in the red and I guess and then the the comments from the

3:02:37city staff had a mix of you know mentioning ADUs some didn't mention ADU only the four

3:02:44semi detached dwellings and some even mentioned only two semi detached dwellings so I'm just curious

3:02:51to see if you know if there was any confusion some on staff as well on what exactly was the

3:02:56application for next slide please yeah and then this last slide I just want to highlight you know

3:03:07if it was divided into two it would have fit very well within the neighborhood and I don't think

3:03:12anybody would be here today if that was the case thank you thank you very much oh thank you

3:03:20committee members do we have any questions of this delegate sorry I do have one last thing I

3:03:28want to mention please your time had not expired so back in sorry so going back to my safety

3:03:40slide so I believe this committee back in August of 2023 ejected a proposal on

3:03:47239 Kathleen Street for the same reason of it's not safe for the resident on the street because

3:03:53the narrow street and buses and children on the street walking on the street without sidewalks

3:04:00thank you for reminding of us of that if you want to wait right there I do want to ask staff

3:04:08a question that you raised at this point you said that there was some discrepancy if I got it

3:04:16correctly between the what was published and what do you believe is going to be built is that have I

3:04:24in the sketch provided we did not see any I mean if we can pull up the sketch from the application

3:04:41if you you know make note of the back it doesn't actually list out any of the ad use

3:04:46that's being proposed I see what you're getting at yes okay

3:04:52and from there like in the staff comments I've seen a mix of 12 dwelling units were four semi-detached

3:04:58dwelling units it's a mix so I'm a little concerned about that okay what I've encouraged

3:05:07what I will say is we have taken that into consideration and we will be asking staff at

3:05:13the end of the delegations to clarify some of this and actually it may come out when Mr.

3:05:19Buceman comes back up to answer some of the questions that are raised so thank you very

3:05:24much for qualifying that I appreciate it thank you Madam Secretary Treasurer may have the next

3:05:36delegation Alex meager welcome can you state your name for the record please yes it's Alex

3:06:09you have 10 minutes to address the committee Mr. Mayor thank you dear chair and members of the

3:06:15committee and adjustment I just going to read this quickly I wrote them out first I would like to

3:06:21say that I agree with all supports and all the comments made by the neighbors regarding the proposed

3:06:28development and our request to deny this development secondly I would like to speak to you as a landlord

3:06:38I have rented families and students alike for 30 years but mainly students I have had mostly good

3:06:44and some bad experience in dealing with students but here is why I don't think this is a good idea

3:06:52for Retrie and Maverick I rent my single detached home for four students at the most each student

3:07:01is fairly good size bedrooms parking on the driveways and private place to live and study

3:07:13my students will tell you that they like where they live and feel safe you have heard that we

3:07:20have narrow streets no sidewalks deep ditches people walk on our road children play on the road in

3:07:29fact we have a daycare center often walk the children on our streets and a group home the excessive

3:07:41increase of rental units which in this case clearly aimed as students would greatly increase the

3:07:48traffic in our roads our street will not be safe for our increased car traffic as many students

3:07:56have one-year lease multiplied by potential 40 bedrooms that could be 40 people moving in and

3:08:03out every eight to 12 months again traffic will become problem garbage particularly at move out

3:08:11time large furniture is often left behind and increased tempers we could be spend dialing

3:08:28the bylaw offices daily where is the nearest grocery store where is the closest bus stop

3:08:35there are questions students want to know right off the bat the grocery store in clear are roughly

3:08:422.5 kilometers away without a car the students will be walking on our roads the closest bus stop is an

3:08:50arco road and colonial which is approximately 1.5 kilometers away again the students will be walking

3:08:58along the richway which has no sidewalks who will be responsible for cleanliness of the premises

3:09:07we provide ourselves as a living beautiful neighborhood what will happen to our grounds

3:09:14after 40 students and their friends decide to party yes i have few calls from neighbors

3:09:21when our students get out ahead but the problem was quickly solved with was it for me because i'm

3:09:35not an absent landlord with 40 students and potential for parties such as such as at

3:09:43chancellor's way and in waterloo become more likely again we are a quiet family neighborhood

3:09:50and this will negatively impact us your decision will impact other properties in the neighborhood

3:09:58is the landlord and a homeowner i do not want to live next to multiple units dwelling such is being

3:10:07proposed not only will this be as unfornful affordable when selling but families will be

3:10:15reluctant to purchase a home in our around around such an environment next door to me

3:10:23are four very friendly and happy students we have a great relationship with them and others

3:10:31surrounding neighbors what makes this is they respect the home and we treat each other as neighbors

3:10:45they have their privacy plenty of parking four cars and feel part of the neighborhood this

3:10:52development is not the best interest in our community and as i ask that you please deny the

3:11:01proposal of this development thank you very much thank you very much for your perspective and i am

3:11:09and i am going to ask you to wait there for a moment and see if committee members have any

3:11:14questions for you committee members do we have any questions of this delegate seeing none again

3:11:20thank you very much for bringing your interest and your perspective to the debate tonight thank you

3:11:27madam secretary treasurer may we have the next delegation and i misspoke when i said debate

3:11:35silvester monies welcome can you state your name for the record please

3:11:59silvestre monies welcome you have 10 minutes to address the committee wow thank you so much i

3:12:04thought i was the only one working after six whole mess of us work after six well thank you so much

3:12:10for allowing me to speak we're kind of early birds here in guile for only about three years here

3:12:17and we've enjoyed the the community of richway as well as malburn it's been really peaceful

3:12:25very quiet we have two great grandchildren we're part of this infrastructure where we have sort of

3:12:32built a what we call a a garden suite as part of with with my daughter and my son-in-law so we're

3:12:39really enjoying this environment however when this proposal was put together i am very familiar with

3:12:48building science i was built built our 2000 homes in keleton so when it comes to the aspect of building

3:12:56and understanding how things work together it does sort of outline a couple points that

3:13:04must be taken one is that there is no geotech engineering that i seen from the

3:13:11these folks providing some more details to how we're going to do any any sort of calm our our

3:13:20sort of community there with comfort where we don't know if there's potential for for floods

3:13:28because of the excessive concretes we're going to be pouring in in these

3:13:34lots and once that lot starts though that lot is singular now but once they that gets going

3:13:40that's going to just explode throughout that community which is going to really really

3:13:46mess it up for the way we we intended to for it to be when we first invested in that community

3:13:53one of the reasons was the larger lots a lot of room to to to do anything that we wish to do

3:13:58like add a pool which we have a pool and so forth but that's going to destroy the community so

3:14:06my colleague said a lot of other things i'd like to say but right now i feel that if we allow this

3:14:12to go through i think wealth will suffer by it because the university brings a lot of goodness

3:14:19to the community a to my daughter's attended university in wealth so we're really happy

3:14:26to have this community but we don't want it altered this way this is not to be done if we can help

3:14:33and please i'm asking you folks to really consider this this is very important for this community

3:14:39you're going to alter that community and ultimately potentially go out so thank you so much for

3:14:48listening to my story thank you very much for sharing your concerns and if you want to wait

3:14:58right there committee members do we have any questions of this delegation seeing none again

3:15:05thank you very much madam secretary treasurer may we have the next delegation kathy kelly welcome

3:15:28can you state your name for the record please yes i'm kathy kelly and you have 10 minutes to

3:15:32address the committee okay off the record i could probably talk you blind but right now

3:15:38most of my neighbors have said most of what i would like to say

3:15:44i would like to thank you for the opportunity to present our concerns with regards to the

3:15:50development that is proposed on ridgeway it was actually five years ago today that my husband

3:15:58and i who is watching online took keys to our home that we moved into that would be our forever home

3:16:09since moving in it is a bungalow and since moving in we have developed what we call our oasis

3:16:17the intention is for us to live there literally forever that forever home

3:16:23um initially when we drove into the neighborhood it felt like driving into a cottage area it felt

3:16:33the best of both worlds of living in the city on a property that we could call home and having amenities

3:16:42pretty close even within a kilometer of a bus to be able to take to downtown or two other areas

3:16:50for shopping even without a vehicle if we came to the point of living there that long in our lives

3:16:55and if our health allows worst case we could still live there and bring in home care and and be able

3:17:04to stay we love ridgeway avenue and our home and our oasis that much um we have our heads in the

3:17:13sand if we would even think that there isn't a housing problem and what we've heard here today

3:17:17we realize that that is an issue not just in guave but all over um you know province and country

3:17:26but when you're putting um density in areas where people have invested and invested everything

3:17:35into a neighborhood um we feel that there's a different kind of crisis that's being created

3:17:42yes there's a housing crisis but being pushed out of our homes potentially

3:17:50because of what could happen on our street makes us feel that we are in a crisis in that way as

3:17:56well and it's very uncomfortable um again i i think that as many of the people already said

3:18:07there's a lot of things that i don't need to repeat but i would like to mention what peter

3:18:12had said and that is um there has been no room for discussion around the community and and how we

3:18:22feel and what we think could be a good fit for the neighborhood i mean moving into onto ridgeway avenue

3:18:30um traditionally has taken a long time for turnover people properties just didn't come up for sale

3:18:39people moved in and they stayed we have my immediate neighbor for example she built that house

3:18:46she's still there our house was built in 1965 and she's still there in her oasis and her garden

3:18:52and we speak and see to her and her daughter who comes to visit and helps with the property

3:18:57we want to be her living on you know where we are um so having the turnover on our street being so

3:19:07so limited the people who are coming in are coming in for that reason they're coming in because we

3:19:12want to keep keep the integrity of the community we're okay with hydro lines cutting off the beautiful

3:19:18100 year old tree that's on our lot uh and gouging it out because the hydro lines are there that's

3:19:24okay we have a hundred year old tree on our lot and and that's important to us to keep those kinds

3:19:30of things um building these um cluster homes such as being proposed just four day four doors away

3:19:39from us um and creating what i would consider a rooming house uh with the traffic and all of the

3:19:47uber eats and the amazon drivers and everything else that's going to come in with 40 new people

3:19:54living on one lot um is going to create havoc on our street um yes we have recently been we

3:20:03understand that there is going to be no parking in place and that's for a reason because it's not

3:20:07safe it's not safe on a narrow street with the ditches and hydro lines and everything else that

3:20:12we have there and the limited lighting and so on uh being not safe and not having parking is one thing

3:20:18but um having all of these people move in where are we expecting these 40 people to find places to

3:20:25park their cars they are going to be driving and then they're going to have friends visiting as well

3:20:30so it they're not going to be walking and taking bikes even if they are um yes there's a lot of a

3:20:36lot of that but um there's potential for 40 cars um they're going to have to find parking someplace

3:20:43else and so this is going to spill over into the other neighboring communities as oak ridge behind

3:20:48us for example um and and the encroachment on their property from these ad us at the back um

3:20:55in such close proximity where the children are playing in their backyard and all the privacy

3:20:59that's lost so i just feel that the oasis and the feeling that's uh that's been in this neighborhood

3:21:05and on this street for so long that we bought into with our life savings to to stay forever

3:21:12is going to be lost and uh and it has created a different kind of a feeling of crisis

3:21:19thank you no thank you and uh if you want to wait right there i'll see if my colleagues have

3:21:24anything to ask committee members do have any questions yes members spears through you mr

3:21:30chair um you mentioned something just now about there being no parking is that is that coming

3:21:36i believe that is forthcoming my understanding is we had there was an assessment done on the street

3:21:42and then a survey went out to the community and it needed to be 50 uh 51 percent of neighbors

3:21:49in favor uh or people on the street on ridgeway specifically in favor of no parking on both sides

3:21:55of the street and it is my understanding that that is forthcoming and that street signs will

3:21:59there will be no parking thank you um and i just want follow up through you mr chair to the city staff

3:22:06is there anyone that can uh corroborate this through the chair to members spears um this is

3:22:14not something that i'm directly involved in this on street parking um i guess potential ban

3:22:21but it is something that i'm i was aware was potentially happening that being said

3:22:25proposal before us today um each semi-detached unit if there are two ad use as well as a main

3:22:31dwelling unit requires a minimum of three parking spaces right three off street parking spaces and

3:22:36they do meet those parking requirements so that being said if the on street parking is banned that

3:22:42wouldn't change whether or not this proposal conforms with the zoning bylaws parking requirements

3:22:47thank you do we have any other questions

3:22:53seeing none thank you very much for sharing your story i do appreciate it thank you for the opportunity

3:23:00madam secretary treasurer may we have the next applicant or delegate leila mcary good afternoon

3:23:26committee of adjustment thank you for giving me this opportunity leila mcary is my name i'm a community

3:23:32member i have um three points to make today uh the first relates to the magnitude of this intensification

3:23:40and i don't think it's properly reflected in the applicants materials the applicants materials

3:23:46in the written application speaks about four units total i think this is going to be much larger

3:23:52and in fact we heard for the first time today that they're going to be rear yard ad use um

3:23:56the second point i'd like to make is that the level of intensification that we're talking about

3:24:01presents a risk to our community it presents a risk on two fronts it presents a risk to active

3:24:07transportation safety that you've heard about from the other neighbors and it presents a risk to storm

3:24:12water management for a street which uses ditches as its storm water management system the third

3:24:18point i'd like to make relates to the intensification criteria in section nine decimal three decimal one

3:24:23of the official plan and i'd like to thirdly address those criteria because it's my view that

3:24:28they're not met and i will be recommending to the committee that they refuse this application

3:24:32so that is how i'll structure my comments to you today i'd like to start first with the magnitude

3:24:37of this intensification i'd like to speak next about the risk to active transportation safety

3:24:43and storm water management and thirdly i'd like to speak about the criteria for intensification

3:24:48slide number two please so our our community was in receipt of some plans from a rental company

3:24:59called spruce living they plan to rent the property which will eventually be constructed on the lot

3:25:08at 34 ridgeway the plans that our community received which aren't before the committee

3:25:14were for a 12 residential unit build and for 40 bedrooms across those 12 units and we know that

3:25:22that's possible because of amendments to section 16 of the planning act which allow for three

3:25:27residential units on a lot so this lot gets divided into four three units per lot total

3:25:3212 units we know that there's a potential for more because we know that the city is contemplating

3:25:37bylaws which would allow for four to five residential units per lot so we could see up to 16

3:25:43maybe 20 units and further bedrooms so it is my submission that this is going to be a large

3:25:48intensification a large build and and i i believe this for three reasons i believe it because of

3:25:56the plans that the community is in receipt of i believe it because when you go to the spruce

3:26:02living website you see on their website that they plan 12 residential or 12 12 12 a 12 unit

3:26:10rental is how they frame it so i do believe there are going to be at least 12 units um

3:26:15and and i believe it because the city staff is also in receipt of this information when you

3:26:19look carefully at their comments when the city staff framed uh this applicants uh proposal they

3:26:26frame it as a 12 residential unit proposal and so despite the fact that there's an application

3:26:31here for four units i think it's actually 12 um slide number three so i'm just going to explain

3:26:41some of the some of the numbers that that were talked about the 40 bedrooms for example and the

3:26:47the plans to the community uh the floor plans in the main build contain a five bedroom unit which

3:26:54i actually assessed to be a lodging house type one pursuant to the 2023 zoning bylaws and that's

3:26:59important because uh there are special rules when it comes to lodging houses first of all you're not

3:27:05allowed to combine lodging houses and ad use but there are special rules as it relates to parking

3:27:09as well which are relevant to your assessment here uh the rules as they relate to parking i think are

3:27:15in section four decimal 23 of the zoning bylaw where you have a lodging house type one one parking

3:27:21spot for every three bedrooms rounded up where you have a fraction so this build might require more

3:27:26than than what is more parking than what is being contemplated uh slide number four please

3:27:33this is the basement that was plans that were received by the community a three bedroom adu

3:27:38in the basement uh slide number five please this is a an overview of the plans that were

3:27:45circulated at the community that show the uh the four rear yard adus that are not in the plans that

3:27:50are before the committee each of those rear yard adus is going to contain or we're told is going to

3:27:55contain two bedrooms so doing that when the community did the math uh five bedroom lodging

3:28:01house a three bedroom adu and two bedrooms in the rear yard adus per lot times four we came up with

3:28:0740 bedrooms that's that's how we got that metric um the the slides as as presented to the committee

3:28:15are a little different no bedroom no rear yard adus but i think we heard today they're going to put

3:28:20them in um and four units total is what the what the committee was told in their application i don't

3:28:25i think it's going to be more uh the city staff had something else they had some other information

3:28:30can i go to slide number nine please the city staff uh sorry wait a second wrong slide slide

3:28:45number eight is the slide i want thank you when the city staff summarized this application they

3:28:50summarized it as follows the applicant is proposing to sever the subject land three times resulting

3:28:55in three severed lots and one retained lot to facilitate the development of four semi-detached

3:29:00dwelling units the intention is to build two additional dwelling units in each semi-detached

3:29:08dwelling nothing about rear yard adus we're talking about adus in the dwellings for a total of

3:29:1412 dwelling units on the subject lands so the city had some information that this was going to be

3:29:1912 units notwithstanding that the application before this committee is for four units in any event my

3:29:24point is that this is going to be large and i'll take a second to talk about why that's a problem

3:29:28for our community it presents a risk to transportation safety uh slide number 12 please this is an

3:29:37overview of our neighborhood it is a high pedestrian traffic neighborhood ridgeway uh connects with

3:29:43malvern allows pedestrian access to the hall and crescent play playground and a series of

3:29:48pedestrian trails through hall and crescent park at the end of the l ridgeway avenue allows access

3:29:55to another park the pine ridge park malvern crescent descends in a southeastward direction

3:30:00and becomes a pedestrian walkway and allows pedestrian access to oak ridge crescent so there

3:30:07are pedestrians on this walkway we've heard about the children we've heard about people walking their

3:30:12dogs and runners the pedestrians aren't just from ridgeway and malvern they're from the adjoining

3:30:16neighborhoods because this allows pedestrian access slide number 13 please and we've heard

3:30:22that the roadway is narrow it has no shoulders it has no sidewalks the pedestrians share the roadways

3:30:29with cars it's it's already a problem it's it's already dangerous and it's become going to become

3:30:33more dangerous if we add 40 uh 40 uh bedroom build uh i will use oh storm water management

3:30:45ditches i don't know anything about storm water management to be completely honest but it just

3:30:50seems like a common sense uh inference that if you're going to take a lot and fill it with concrete

3:30:55and fill it with buildings it will create a storm water problem uh the community is on a lot of

3:31:01the people are on wells uh because it's an older community and i worry about the drinking water

3:31:06in in our community i i don't know if that's been assessed um and i'll finish by talking about

3:31:15the criteria for intensification in nine decimal three decimal one decimal one and in particular

3:31:21um

3:31:24the criteria number two as it relates to frontages

3:31:30i heard one of my neighbors speak about the smallest lot on ridgeway being 15 meters i don't

3:31:35know of a lot on ridgeway that has a 15 meter frontage um my knowledge of the community is the

3:31:41range of lots are 27 to 36 meters and we're talking about when we're now talking about having

3:31:46frontages of 9.1 meters um and so it is my view that that the frontages that are being proposed

3:31:53are not compatible with the existing community the intention of this provision is to preserve the

3:31:58character of flow density residential neighborhoods and to ensure specifics like sufficient spacing

3:32:03between the houses and and i think this severance the loud would have the opposite effect it would

3:32:10create a situation where the neighboring homes are overshadowed by by this large build

3:32:17in relation to the criteria for intensification criteria four and five relate to parking and

3:32:24traffic safety i've already talked about that i think i don't think those criteria are met because

3:32:29we have a parking and traffic safety problem uh criteria one um you know the the idea that

3:32:38massing appearance citing are going to be compatible in design um i don't think is met criteria six

3:32:44that adequate municipal infrastructure services and amenity areas for residents can be provided

3:32:52i worry about the property it leaves little space for amenities green space or you know the

3:32:57waste bins that a 40 bedroom complex will inevitably generate the criteria number nine

3:33:04impacts on the adjacent property are minimized in relation to grading grading drainage location of

3:33:11service areas and microclimatic conditions i feel it is not met in particular as it relates

3:33:16to the adjacent lots those are my respectful submissions sub any questions this committee

3:33:21might have thank you for getting under the last bell it's a very thorough presentation and a lot

3:33:32a ground to cover and i've taken several notes i'm sure my colleagues have as well if you want

3:33:37to remain there for just a moment uh let me uh poll my committee members to see if they have any

3:33:43questions in fact remember ballaban does through the chair um i you you mentioned wells so that

3:33:50just threw me i have no knowledge of that anywhere in anything that i've written yes or read i should

3:33:58say so so this this community was built before it was part of gulf it it was outside of gulf city

3:34:04limits and so each lot has a well and a septic tank many of the homes have now uh hooked up to

3:34:11city water and many are still on wells i have a well on my property i use it to water the lawn

3:34:17i'm also hooked up to the city so that's that's great um yeah but i do worry about um you know the

3:34:22water table for those wells if if we add this huge um a huge complex or or like the risk of of um

3:34:31the risk to the drinking water right thank you for that because that's important information

3:34:37especially if they're on wells and septic absolutely i mean you know that's a drainage

3:34:45issue for sure uh committee members any other questions of this uh delegate thank you very

3:34:54much for a very thorough and informative presentation thank you thank you mr chair

3:35:00madam secretary treasurer may we have the next delegation

3:35:03pola manes is the delegate uh phoning in i'm sorry i didn't quite hear what you were saying but

3:35:45if i'm correct you're saying that um paula is uh not in the room at the moment

3:35:53oh have you decided against uh making a delegation at this point then we're going to go to the next

3:36:07delegation if you change your mind um please uh i will be asking the assembled folks to

3:36:15to raise their hand if they do want to speak so if you do want if you change your mind

3:36:20you'll have an opportunity madam secretary treasurer may we have the next delegation

3:36:26ania kaysia welcome can you state your name for the record please my name's ania kitcha

3:36:49and you have 10 minutes to address the committee so please make uses as much

3:36:53sure as little time as you'd like okay well leila did a great job she covered a lot of

3:36:57points i have here and i'll see what i can say that's a little bit different but i think we all

3:37:02now see that what's being planned is 40 bedrooms right and i guess what there's the problem is that

3:37:10the application does not show these four detached dwellings in the back of each lot and i would think

3:37:18that would be important in the criteria for the city staff to make a conclusion because it would

3:37:24change the drainage and everything really i mean the impact that this would have on the community

3:37:33and the infrastructure right so i don't understand why it's not in the application

3:37:39even just the size the dimensions they're not there but anyway um so we see that there's going

3:37:47to be 40 bedrooms uh two semi-detached homes so four homes 40 bedrooms 12 dwelling units okay

3:37:57and i think we've all said it that this is not gentle intensification no matter how we look at it

3:38:04you know we have uh an existing home for four residents and replacing it with 12 or we're replacing

3:38:11it with the 40 residents that's an 1000 percent increase in population density or you can look

3:38:20at it as one existing dwelling and creating 12 and that's a 1200 percent increase and like i said no

3:38:26matter how we look at it it's not gentle intensification especially when we're considering the surrounding

3:38:31neighborhood are all single residential units and but they do have rentals and um we even just had a

3:38:39detached dwelling unit made in our neighborhood and so like i say is that if those four attached

3:38:51dwelling units are not there in the plan then when the city staff makes comments about um

3:38:56the recommended stormwater management does it still suffice are they still considering it because

3:39:03so it seems a little bit unclear to me that this application is not filled you know to completion

3:39:14and i agree with leila that what they are building because they have these five bedrooms very small

3:39:21bedrooms about eight by nine feet ten by nine feet five bedrooms on the top um that we have

3:39:29four non-compliant lodging houses um and so another thing is that and we've all mentioned is that

3:39:40it doesn't comply with the planning act as we've seen it doesn't fit with the existing community

3:39:50the dimensions and shapes of the proposed lots they're they're different um you know

3:39:56you're taking this one large lot you're dividing it into 9.1 meters and everyone's been saying that

3:40:02the houses in that area are no they're not smaller than 15 meters so it doesn't comply with the planning

3:40:12act um and in regards to flood control so if i'm looking at the um subsection 51 24 uh section h in

3:40:23regards to flood control we don't have storm sewers um the flood control will be greatly impacted due

3:40:29to this immense intensification on these dwellings you have a huge roof canopy a huge amount of

3:40:36driveway space along with the four attached dwelling units um we have a huge reduction in

3:40:42green space so along with this high water table in the proposed area we would have flooding which

3:40:47could be detrimental to the surrounding neighbors um and so which leads to my next point which is

3:41:01the conservation of natural resources and and here what i see is that they have four mature trees

3:41:07shown here that they're going to be taken down um and some of these trees are at least 50 years old

3:41:14one of them is on city property and actually trees are beneficial they help with regulating

3:41:21water flow they're a key in preventing floods and i don't think just cutting them down um and them

3:41:29paying for that you know giving you giving the city money it that this is really i don't think

3:41:34that's the right way to deal with the issue i don't think that this is a strategic plan these two

3:41:41semi-detached homes like peter said i think there could be something uh a more smarter strategic

3:41:49plan in intensifying the area and this is not very thoughtful it's just kind of a cookie cutter like

3:41:57we saw in the previous applications it's the same thing and it's they're not thinking about

3:42:02the surrounding area at all and you know you could think if you were you know more conscientious you

3:42:10could think about somehow keeping the green space and having intensification um and i think we've

3:42:20also mentioned that this does not comply with the official plan um we've said that the setbacks i think

3:42:26they have about 2.4 for a side setback i mean the neighboring property is 4.7 that's not in alignment

3:42:36you know so the things things aren't are matching up and and we've all mentioned about the traffic

3:42:45it'll be a huge impact um on a personal note i have four children young children that take the

3:42:52bus every day there are no sidewalks and there's no curb and their ditches you know they walk in a

3:42:58single file line they have to be careful to get to the bus and back and there are other children

3:43:02in the community in the neighborhood which walk to school my son rides his bike out you know to go

3:43:09see friends because there's the subdivision behind us so there's a lot of flow of traffic

3:43:14pedestrian and you know bicycle traffic that would have to compete with um with cars but

3:43:25you know additionally so you're adding these 40 units and it'd be great if it's for family but

3:43:32you know where we're at and i think we all know now is that that uh we've heard that the University

3:43:40of Guelph has over 1300 first year students without on-campus housing right the mayor is even

3:43:48disappointed in that and saying that we're going to be taking the burden the community for uh this

3:43:56for the students that don't have homes i've read articles every week about how um houses are being

3:44:02rented out to students and i think that's why we're concerned here that this will be going to

3:44:06students if it were going to families well that would be great but we don't we don't see that happening

3:44:12and um let's see everybody has said a lot of things that i've said so and yeah you know another

3:44:20point is that there is a strategic growth area we don't fall in the strategic growth area where

3:44:26they're putting this is at the end of ridgeway it's not close to arkel it's not close to gordon

3:44:33it's not you know you don't have the people living there won't have access to public transportation

3:44:38it's a long walk with no sidewalks and um you're you're now creating a space for more people to be

3:44:47unsafe and that does not make sense so it is a poorly lit street we only have lighting on one

3:44:54side it's it's very unsafe to walk at dark and we've had thefts car thefts in in my car my neighbor's

3:45:02car we're aware of it right so it happens and um it would not be safe for any pedestrians um

3:45:11and yeah like i said i've lived there for 10 years i live next door to my my in-laws we have a very

3:45:19special setup and my four children um are very you know involved in walking around they've made

3:45:28friends in the the the neighborhood and i mean my daughter has made friends best friends with a

3:45:35couple that was renting from a house down the street so we don't have a problem with intensification

3:45:43renting to families um you know that's not an issue but with this is it's too intense

3:45:50it's there's no control and um i think that's everything i have to say so that's it sorry

3:46:01it's a little bit mishmash because everybody said a little bit of what i wanted to say well thank you

3:46:05no thank you very much uh not everybody is used to speaking in public so thank you for taking the

3:46:11time to do so um if you want to wait right there uh committee members do we have any questions of

3:46:17this delegation seeing none again thank you very much for your perspective

3:46:25madam secretary treasurer may have the next delegate grant wotkinson it took me so long to

3:46:58get here that's okay i just covered from knee surgery it would take me as long to get down

3:47:03from there as well can you state your name for the record please my name is grant wotkinson

3:47:08mr wotkinson you have uh 10 minutes to address the committee i won't take that long thank you very

3:47:13much i i have a very unique situation uh to the rest of my neighbors i moved on to ridgeway avenue

3:47:22in 1961 when my parents had one of the first houses built in this brand new subdivision

3:47:30the address back then was rr2 pusslench the owner and developer of this property was a man

3:47:38nice man named john matenko and he also owned ronald construction who built all the new homes

3:47:43that were being built on his property the township they had bylaws because we're talking about bylaws

3:47:50a lot here uh that had to be fall and and one of them was that lots had to be a minimum of a half

3:47:57acre because they had to accommodate a well and a septic system the developer he didn't have bylaws

3:48:05but he had rules and standards in place all the houses had to be bungalows the exterior was to be

3:48:13brick and all the houses had to have a garage this was to maintain a standard and a sense of

3:48:19conformity for the subdivision and all the new homeowners now he died in the late 60s and his

3:48:26wife sold the land to another company and the new owners allowed story and a half and two story

3:48:34houses inciting for the exterior instead of brick i guess we could call this gentle modification

3:48:43there wasn't anything that didn't fit into the overall appearance of the street like i say i

3:48:48grew up on ridgeway avenue and i bought the house that i now live in when i had the opportunity

3:48:55opportunity to move back to that street 38 years ago and i'm one of those people that still have

3:49:01a well and a septic system and i'm only two i'm only one house separated from this development

3:49:08at 34 ridgeway anyway we raised our family here and it's always been a great neighborhood

3:49:16and i've seen many new homeowners come in over the years and move on to our street

3:49:21many of them watched and waited a long time for the chance to move on to that street

3:49:27many paid a premium to move on to this street and a lot of renovations were completed on these

3:49:33older bungalows second stories were added to some some were demolished and replaced by

3:49:39more modern style houses and all of these changes they upheld or improved the demographics

3:49:45of ridgeway avenue we all moved to ridgeway avenue every one of us we moved there because

3:49:52of what the street is not because of what metzcon and spruce living want it to become

3:50:00the developer doesn't care about us on ridgeway avenue none of this will affect him

3:50:07he's not going to live on our street and the developer doesn't care about you or city council

3:50:13either he just wants your approval so he can build his project to rake in between 40 and 50

3:50:20thousand dollars a month renting rooms to students and all of this is being done under the disguise

3:50:29of gentle intensification which is supposed to be an increase in housing supply with minimal

3:50:36impact on existing communities as you know well what a crock that is this is extreme intensification

3:50:44to the max and it will stick out like a sore thumb on our street i mentioned that my mom and dad built

3:50:52a house on the street in 1961 my mom she still lives in that house she's 97 years old she's lived

3:51:00there 63 years she's got a well on a septic system unfortunately for her her house is right beside

3:51:0930 her her address is 32 right beside this proposed development at 34 so i ask

3:51:16committee the committee to please consider carefully the residents of ridgeway avenue and

3:51:23how this project with all its ramifications will affect every aspect of our neighborhood

3:51:30and make your recommendations based on that thank you thank you very much for your perspective

3:51:37if you want to wait right there committee members do we have any questions of this delegation

3:51:43seeing none thank you once again for your presentation

3:51:48madam secretary treasurer may we have the next delegation

3:51:53Paul samansky welcome can you state your name for the record please

3:52:17yes paul shaman ski

3:52:21you have 10 minutes to address the committee thank you thank you thank you for the opportunity

3:52:28thank you for the opportunity to speak to the committee regarding the proposal for 34 ridgeway

3:52:35i wrote and submitted a letter strongly opposing this proposal it is my understanding that a

3:52:40subdivision of land must meet requirements of the planning act among these are that the proposal

3:52:48must be compliant with the official plan consideration must be given to the welfare of the present

3:52:54and future inhabitants and the dimensions and shapes of the proposed lots need to be taken into

3:53:00account in my letter i pointed to how the proposal failed to meet a number of these requirements

3:53:09some of the main concerns were that lot frontages are significantly different than other lots on

3:53:17the street 9.1 meters proposed versus the 25 to 35 meter average massing scale appearance

3:53:28are considerably different than the rest of the lots impacts on pedestrian traffic and

3:53:35safety given the lack of street infrastructure including sidewalks modern storm drainage and

3:53:41sufficient street lighting i won't read my letter or repeat the details i trust that this committee

3:53:49has done its due diligence and have read and considered all of these points however i would

3:53:56like to take a minute to highlight a couple of crucial points that i disagree with which were

3:54:03included in the city's report first i strongly disagree with the city's assessment of this

3:54:11development is reasonable and for the good of the community under the proposal a single dwelling

3:54:17will be replaced by 12 dwellings such magnitude of intensification brings significant traffic

3:54:23increase to the street that lacks sufficient road infrastructure most notably sidewalks

3:54:32assuming that 12 units will not increase car traffic on the street is not realistic

3:54:37the city the city previously confirmed that the width of our street is between 6.85 and 7 meters

3:54:46now imagine middle of winter high banks of snow on each side of the road two sharp bends on the

3:54:56street with near zero visibility for cars coming around the bend and there is a significant bend

3:55:03in ridgeway and now my children age six and eight have to use this road as there are no sidewalks

3:55:11with increased traffic to walk to and from the school bus each day which is all the way on

3:55:17arcle how are my kids supposed to safely navigate the situation if an average car is 1.8 meters wide

3:55:26or more especially if it is a delivery truck which would be even wider and two vehicles are passing

3:55:31each other both needing a room a bit of room on each side how much does that leave for my kids

3:55:38between a snow bank and a moving vehicle my six-year-old can hardly be seen over the hood of a car

3:55:46how is that safe or reasonable there are already serious concerns about the pedestrian safety

3:55:52which is why us the residents of ridgeway have already engaged with the city to limit on-street

3:55:57parking or that note if there is there are going to be 12 dwelling units as the final plan appears

3:56:04to suggest and if an average number of cars per household is 1.5 then there will be at least

3:56:1218 parking spots on the property to avoid relying on street parking

3:56:20I also fail to see how this development will provide sufficient parking at the same time

3:56:27and at the same time room for 36 municipal waste bins on the property second the city report has not

3:56:38considered the lot frontage and how that compares to the lots in the vicinity specifically

3:56:44the report references the general characteristics of the neighborhood and specifically criteria under

3:56:50section 9.3 f which is to maintain the general character of built form in existing established

3:56:59residential neighborhoods while accommodating compatible residential infill and intensification

3:57:06there's clear reference to here to infill and intensification but the report has no

3:57:13reference to the intensification criteria in the official plan which requires under

3:57:209.3.1.1.2 that proposals for residential lot infill will be compatible with the general

3:57:30frontage of lots in the immediate vicinity if this criteria were considered which I believe

3:57:38should be then it would show that the proposal for 34 Ridgeway is not in alignment the city defines

3:57:50gentle density as an approach to urban development that focuses on slightly increasing the number

3:57:56of variety of homes in neighborhoods that typically accommodate only low density single detached homes

3:58:04something that is hardly noticeable I have no problem with this type of intensification

3:58:10but what is being proposed here is not gentle density the magnitude and impact of the proposal

3:58:16is enormous and has a potentially serious adverse impact on our community and our lives

3:58:23I ask the committee to reject this proposal thank you thank you very much if you want to

3:58:31wait right there let me see if committee members have any questions for you committee members

3:58:36do we have any questions of this delegation seeing none I want to thank you for your your time and

3:58:43your presentation Madam Secretary Treasurer may we have the next delegate welcome can you state

3:59:13your name for the record please my name is Mr. Feng Xiao thank you Mr. Chair thank you for giving me

3:59:20the chance to speak I live in the 30 you have just you have 10 minutes to address the committee

3:59:27and you can make as much as little time of that as you'd like oh I will be finished sure

3:59:34I I live in a 30 o'clock ridge just behind the new buildings and I agree with what my

3:59:43neighbors have said or where we see the problem for me is that at the you are beautiful additional

3:59:51unit they those were looking directly at my backyard those are seeing my concern is there are a lot of

4:00:01trees in 34 o'clock ridge and I think those trees will be cut down it's more somebody says five I

4:00:10think it's more than 10 but yeah I didn't have a rare count those are my concern thank you very much

4:00:21oh thank you that was concise if you want to wait right there my colleagues may have some

4:00:25questions for you committee members I just want to ask quickly of staff can you address the

4:00:35question about trees does this project fall under the private property tree bylaw through you Mr.

4:00:46Chair my understanding is that this property does fall under that private property tree bylaw and

4:00:50for that reason landscape planning and forestry staff have recommended that a

4:00:55inventory and preservation plan be be completed as a condition of this application thank you

4:01:03I hope that answers at least part of your question yes thank you thank you may we have the next

4:01:11delegation please madam secretary treasurer ken strawberry and that individual is peering via video

4:01:25um do we have mr. the delegate on the line can indeed can you state your name for the record

4:01:41please yes my name is ken strawberry I'm actually speaking on behalf of my mother who lives at 17

4:01:49melvin crescent before you get started just let me remind remind you that you have 10 minutes to

4:01:57address the committee thank you I appreciate that and I do appreciate the time it certainly is a

4:02:05long period of time as we're going through all of this but my mother asked me if I would speak on

4:02:11her behalf she's getting a little bit older and but she wanted to at least allow you people to hear

4:02:22her concerns as well so to just sort of give some background my parents were always the type to

4:02:34look into things to try and understand to see the reasoning behind change as opposed to just being

4:02:41against change that came through even just a few years ago I don't know if you folks are aware but

4:02:49there was the church that is in behind melvin between melvin and gordon street wanted to

4:02:59sever off their property and so there was a lot under that was undertaken there my parents looked

4:03:05at it and and at the time I recall what they wanted was for people to understand that

4:03:13um the city council actually to understand that they understood even at that time it was being

4:03:22talked about you know intensity and and adding in additional residences and they just asked that

4:03:29they would be careful and considerate of the the neighbors that were there and have something that

4:03:35actually worked in harmony with it the the developer was actually quite good and he listened to a lot

4:03:46of what was being said made several changes the end of it was the city actually came back and

4:03:55they had allowed him to go ahead but they actually added a stipulation something that none of us had

4:04:00even thought of that was that there was concerns in the city of gulf that church properties were

4:04:08hard to come by and especially with lots of space and so they cut back and only allowed them to

4:04:15sever off a portion of it instead of all of it to my parents that showed diligence it showed concern

4:04:23um and and I think um uh at this point in time what my mom is hoping for is that that same kind

4:04:35of diligence and concern would be looked at and um she certainly understands the need for

4:04:43these you know some of these changes that are being talked about the um you know that

4:04:48will it look a little different in the neighborhood to have a number of places of course it would

4:04:53um and her concern is not so much um the technical aspects of it as it is the quality aspects of it

4:05:05and so in keeping with um things that the uh city has talked about in terms of

4:05:14these changes that are coming you know the word's been used a number of times and it's actually

4:05:18written in in your documents it talks about um being compatible her concern is this that the

4:05:26compatibility that would be um most at ends here isn't putting in some units um even the fact that

4:05:42there eight rooms is one thing because I think uh you know any of us if we saw the Brady bunch move

4:05:49in uh they would become the novelty of the neighborhood and everybody'd watch the station

4:05:54wagon come and go but the intention here seems to be towards um providing accommodations for

4:06:04students and so the concern that my mom has is the compatibility between those people that would

4:06:14be coming into the neighborhood versus the ones that exist today and so where you know people and

4:06:21some of these points have been mentioned but I'll try to go through it very quickly um

4:06:27where people have come into the neighborhood and they're looking at um things in a very long

4:06:33term way students come and go and it's more short term where it's very family oriented today

4:06:40students tend to be um or can be a little self-indulgent where um long term investment is

4:06:50you know in the forefront of many of the people who've come into that neighborhood

4:06:56there's no investment really from a student population and it's more of a quality thing

4:07:01as opposed to a quantitative thing and so I think my mom is just asking that um that you reflect

4:07:09upon that as well and understand that um in order for neighborhoods to be um that type of a harmonious

4:07:22uh group of of you know very diverse people um the concern for her is that the potential for

4:07:32what would end up happening would not be people that actually join in and become part of a community

4:07:39but that would probably have a tendency to create issues and you know she um she looked at things like

4:07:47um the federal government put out a survey talked about how the response from the survey from

4:07:55university students was that almost half of them would over-indulge in alcohol

4:08:02and those sorts of things change in neighborhood so please just consider those things thank you very

4:08:09much for your time thank you very much and if you want to stand by I'll ask the committee if

4:08:16they have any questions for you committee members do we have any questions of this delegation

4:08:21seeing none let me thank you once again for your presentation thank you

4:08:27madam secretary treasurer may we have the next delegation

4:08:32Philip mahar welcome can you state your name for the record please uh Philip mahar

4:08:55and you have 10 minutes and you can make as much use of that if you like thank you mr chair and uh

4:09:01committee members um a lot of these folks here have talked about a lot of things that I don't

4:09:07want to repeat so I thought I'd sort of just head off in a slightly different direction

4:09:13and I and I agree with everything they've said so you know whatever they said sure in spades

4:09:20and I want to also say I support intensification um contrary to what some people have said

4:09:27um even outside this room um we need intensification across the city so we have it on our street you

4:09:35know we have a house right now that was well the backyard was torn down another house is going to be

4:09:40built there uh we have some fields that some small fields where houses have been built over the years

4:09:46we've got uh accessory dwelling units we have all of that so so you know um you know shift happens

4:09:54you know you gotta you gotta realize that there's going to be change and I think

4:09:58all of the people here accept that and and I hope we've tried to say that uh listen none of us like

4:10:04change at some level but you know what it's the right thing to do um I've worked with you know

4:10:09refugees I've worked with homeless people I've worked with street people I've given out crack

4:10:13pipes and tin foil to people here in Guelph I've visited people in tents I've taken them coffee

4:10:18I've worked with refugees overseas I've brought them here under master plans so I get homelessness

4:10:24I get all of that right so um I'm very sympathetic but the broader issue here for me a little bit

4:10:31is just to take it in a completely different direction is that I do feel and this is not on

4:10:36you but I feel like the city has been very weak in communicating so many things um I think that the

4:10:42city has not really communicated um some of the issues that are going on that are changing in

4:10:49terms of the bylaws uh things like uh no limit on bedrooms uh there used to be a limit there aren't

4:10:56any more I think if you ask people uh on the street they wouldn't know that they would know oh that's

4:11:02changed they don't understand that they don't understand the concept of three is a right four is

4:11:08a right and if you look into the city documents it actually talks about five and six now that will

4:11:15be unlimited properties and it's all based on the space obviously you can't just build six houses

4:11:19wherever you want or six dwellings but I think most people in the city don't understand that those

4:11:24changes have taken place and I really feel as though um the city has been very weak in terms of its

4:11:30communications they've had open houses I've been to some of the open houses I feel like mostly it's

4:11:36trying to convince you of things by consultants that the city hires as well as city planners and I've

4:11:42met and talked to many of them um it's really trying to convince you of things that they already

4:11:46believe um but whatever the case I feel like the communication has been very weak and that people

4:11:51don't really understand what's happening in wealth and they don't understand the changes and I think

4:11:56that's almost evidenced in the fact that I'm sure some of the arguments that that we're giving here

4:12:02you know your wise people you know your citizens like us this isn't a full-time job

4:12:07how you do this I couldn't do it you know the math and trying to figure this stuff out it's very

4:12:11complicated it really is but I but I feel as though um for for some of us we're probably giving

4:12:18arguments we're throwing darts at a dartboard in the dark and you're like yeah that's great I'm

4:12:23sympathetic but that's not really relevant to the discussion and to me that's proof that we don't

4:12:28understand what's going on it's proof to me that actually we don't fully understand perhaps what

4:12:36your role is what the city's trying to do and actually if we did understand we you probably

4:12:42would have less work and so I guess my plea is kind of a broader one and and it's really maybe if you

4:12:49can push it up the up the food chain is to try to get the city to try to communicate a lot of these

4:12:55things about what is for is a right I mean so in our community we have we're going to have the knock

4:13:02on effect right this this particular build if it goes through is going to be a standard a canon by

4:13:10which other builds will be compared they're going to try to do this somewhere else and it's like hey

4:13:15listen they did it on Ridgeway and so what you decide here related to this particular discussion

4:13:22is very very important but there's there's communication but then there's also no communication

4:13:28and some of the things that aren't communicated are in the various policies that the city has

4:13:33okay let's say we put in the 40 bedrooms or more if they go for as a right on this property in

4:13:38October when they vote on it which will happen well what about the next door neighbor now we've

4:13:43got 80 bedrooms and on the other side as as Grant shared his mother is quite elderly okay let's add

4:13:51another now we've got 120 bedrooms so now we've got and you know it may seem crazy but that is not

4:13:58unrealistic that could very very well happen I have actually one of the largest properties on the

4:14:04street okay so and my neighbor has one even bigger so you know once these things start going this

4:14:11could theoretically become a student ghetto and we know about Kingston student ghetto

4:14:17Google Waterloo student ghetto these are problems we're not anti-student as um Alex said we have a

4:14:24house on the street that's rented to students and they're fantastic and by the way they all have cars

4:14:29but I've talked to the city planners I've talked to four city planners they tell me point blank

4:14:35last week in the open house students don't have cars I don't know what planet they're living on a lot

4:14:42of these people are farm kids right they're coming from the farm farm kids drive so you know I know

4:14:48the policy is basically one parking space per dwelling you know it's hard it's hard to fight

4:14:56against that that's what they want that's what the city says and and I've talked to city planners

4:15:01and they're like well you know we need less cars in the city so now we're into social engineering

4:15:06and that's the way they're doing it so the parking is a huge problem there is no parking on the street

4:15:11now that that's official the the counselor has sent out an email or a letter in his update and he's

4:15:18told us that there's no parking on both sides of the street so the students can't park on the street

4:15:22that's going to push it somewhere else because those students are going to have cars now they're

4:15:26going to want to park on Oak Ridge well guess what I've talked to those people now they're going to

4:15:32start looking at whether we should have no parking so parking is a huge issue um and I'm sorry you

4:15:38know mezcon and spruce living you know they want to maximize the land uh when the forza right comes

4:15:46in as you probably know there will be no additional parking that will be the new policy when they vote

4:15:52on it they're only providing parking for three parking spaces and when they get a fourth unit

4:16:00they're not adding parking so they're removing it so you know I just share with you some thoughts

4:16:06related to communications uh the knock on effect which is a big problem and there's no policy around

4:16:13so theoretically they come up with these ideas let's do gentle density but what happens when

4:16:18gentle density becomes gentle density times three and four and you've got a hundred bedrooms or

4:16:23120 or whatever the number is it just doesn't work um as well there's been no consideration for wells

4:16:30I'm on a well I'm about four away from this I'm on a well and a septic so yeah I guess people didn't

4:16:37realize a lot of people's neighborhood is still in wells and septic and I've looked into what it

4:16:41cost me to put in to connect and put in all of that they have to dig a trench through my basement

4:16:46floor we're looking at around $50,000 um it's just exorbitant I don't have it I can't do it I'm on a

4:16:54pension you know I'm retired you'd be shocked to have little money I live on we don't eat out we don't

4:17:00do any of that stuff you'd be amazed my little wife is a great cook that's all I have to say I

4:17:07appreciate your time you know we appreciate you guys man all the time you spend on this it's I like

4:17:14I say I could it's rocket science as far as I'm concerned so thank you very much I do appreciate

4:17:19your time thank you very much for your perspective and for going a little bit sideways um

4:17:26story of my life well and saying ditto to a number of the other points committee members do we have

4:17:32any questions of this delegate um just one point and I'd like to clarify something and that is that

4:17:41there is there may be a perception that these um that these hearings set a precedent they don't

4:17:50our job is to evaluate each application as an individual there may be some um things that are

4:17:58similar because of the nature of the zoning bylaw but um it's not a criticism it's just

4:18:05an observation that that's our job is to look at every single application as a standalone application

4:18:12so I just wanted to add that no and I respect that I I guess you know I think what we're thinking is

4:18:17that if this happens you know other neighborhoods will look at this and you know they'll say we'll

4:18:21get the knock on a metaphor yeah absolutely as a rugby player I know what a knock on is

4:18:28thank you very much again thanks very much um madam secretary treasurer may we have the next

4:18:34delegation the last uh registered delegate is jason g welcome can you state your name for the

4:18:54record please jason guardian I'm a community member and uh you have 10 minutes and you're free to make

4:19:00as much use of that time as you'd like thank you mr chair um through mr chair and to the

4:19:05committee thank you for your time today I know I'm aware of the time and so I'll uh I think I'm

4:19:11just going to echo a lot of what's already been said um you know I think when I first came here I was

4:19:16um in support of refusing the application but uh after hearing others um I think my real intent

4:19:24here is to defer it and to see some some conversations with the developer here um I think I'm reasonable

4:19:31I think the members here that have come and spoken to a lot of us here are reasonable

4:19:35and I think this business is reasonable maybe there is a an oversight as to gathering feedback

4:19:41from the community to see how we can develop this into some gentle density for the community

4:19:46we are community members we want to be a part of the community we want to be part of the solution

4:19:52but we need to be reasonable some of the things I want to echo is um is more so the safety aspect

4:19:59the potential for these units to become student rentals is a is a big concern

4:20:05the environmental sustainability the infrastructure issues that students can

4:20:09can bring into a neighborhood with this many bedrooms is is a concern our neighborhood isn't

4:20:15designed for family or a neighborhood is designed for family living it lacks the capacity to support

4:20:21the surge in the traffic and the parking that would develop and the parking that would be

4:20:27generated as a result of this the issues of parking around that it would definitely push

4:20:32parking into other neighborhoods um Oak Ridge is one that's been mentioned that just creates another

4:20:38problem I don't think we're here to to create another problem so that's a concern as well

4:20:45the shift um in what could be developed here what has been proposed could displace these issues into

4:20:51neighboring um in neighboring streets but also impeding access for emergency vehicles with having

4:20:56these all these parked cars or maybe not so much parked that I understand that the parking has

4:21:02has changed there but it would definitely the street is restrictive in its width

4:21:07so it will definitely provide some challenges with mobility with snow and all that in the in the

4:21:13area and one thing that I think we need to recognize is how it is set up is you have now we know ADU's

4:21:22sandwiched between other houses we know a lot is 180 feet deep imagine being emergency services

4:21:28in the dead of winter with snow trying to access a patient in an ADU unit 180 feet deep in snow

4:21:35that you can't get through safety cannot be negotiable I think we have to take that into

4:21:40consideration we've had way too many fire deaths in our community this year so we have an opportunity

4:21:48here to make sure that we don't create another one through safety and any type of emergency where

4:21:54we need access units that are squished into other dwellings as well ultimately here is the pursuit

4:22:06is a solution that is equitable and beneficial for families families that can live here while

4:22:12ensuring that our neighborhood remains is safe and it's capable of accommodating the requirements

4:22:17of the property we're just looking for something reasonable and safe for the community and I

4:22:24expect that the developer can have a conversation with us and we'll be more than happy to start that

4:22:29conversation and have something that's reasonable for the community because that's what we are is

4:22:34all reasonable people here today thank you and I appreciate your time today thank you very much

4:22:41and committee members do we have any questions of this delegate again thank you very much for your

4:22:48presentation uh madam secretary treasurer do we have any other registered delegates

4:23:02I'm going to at this point ask if there is anyone in the auditorium who would like to speak to this

4:23:09application and I'm going to ask a second time if there's anyone who would like to speak to this

4:23:19application seeing no hands and no movement um madam secretary treasurer are there any calls or

4:23:30internet applications or delegations chair smith we don't have any further delegation requests

4:23:38thank you um at this point I'm going to ask for mr. buesman to return to the microphone

4:23:45if he'd like to answer some of the questions that have been raised mr. buesman thank you mr

4:23:52chair a lot has been said and there's a lot of passion for this project as we know this is a

4:24:02large lot as mentioned that many of the houses are in wells and septics and that's why this is such a

4:24:08large lot I regret that the sketch initially didn't show the ad use but that is the intention I said

4:24:17that right at the beginning of this presentation the ad use are expected the ad use will be 70

4:24:23dady square meters to convert the square feet that's about 800 square feet they actually take a small

4:24:30chunk of the backyards there has been a there's a couple monitoring wells on the site and there's

4:24:38also some geotechnical work being done and the main purpose of that is to understand the movement of

4:24:45groundwater because the desires to design infiltration galleries to take the storm water and and so

4:24:53the storm water will be addressed there was a small reference to newstead on a different

4:25:01application I happened to be familiar with that other application that was actually deferred there

4:25:06was not a denial on that one there was just a deferral on that one I just want to highlight

4:25:13actually there's five parking spots on each one you'll see that the houses are set back 11 meters

4:25:19from the road so that means you can have two cars deep and they're five and a half they're five

4:25:24meters wide that means you can have actually four cars in front of the in front of each unit

4:25:32there is there is going to be like we said 12 units the developer has had other successful

4:25:39projects in gual there was a one on forest that caused a lot of concern at the time and now they're

4:25:47almost finished actually two are being lived in now what he's finding is that as a rental situation

4:25:54about 50 percent are students 50 percent are professional young people let's say mid-late 20s

4:26:00starting out their careers as a couple that kind of thing that that are in those units and that's

4:26:05what he's found in the project on forestry and on water street not saying that that's going to exactly

4:26:11happen here it'd be nice if it did but that's hard to say because it has been promoted as rentals yet

4:26:17or advertised as such with so we don't know where the demand is going to come from that's just the

4:26:22experience that he's had so far and his desires to keep these things well maintained he's got a

4:26:27number on the go and he wants to keep them well maintained in terms of cleanliness and there's

4:26:33very strict rules to the tenants and as young professionals we hope that they all accept those

4:26:40those rules and those guidelines the province has really pushed us to they've set up the

4:26:50planning policies that we're familiar with the provincial planning policies the places to grow

4:26:55act the city of Guelph has made a pledge to create housing the city of Guelph has created this zoning

4:27:00bylaw to encourage this kind of development we have a very large lot i'm actually of one other

4:27:08point i wanted to clarify and this is again we have to get our heads around the fact we're going

4:27:13into semi-detached units now and we talk about 9.1 meters in a way the whole frontage is 18.2

4:27:22for that building so when you look at the zoning bylaw if it was a single family dwelling the

4:27:28minimum would be 15 meters for that building but the zoning bylaw is set up to say well we're going

4:27:35to sort of split that building into two pieces so the minimum lot width on a semi is seven and a

4:27:41half meters in this case we've got a we're making these semis 9.1 meters which exceeds the the zoning

4:27:52requirements the whole building is 18 meters whereas the minimum is 15 18 is extremely large still

4:28:00um if you think about the newer and more intense units that are going on in the more intense parts

4:28:07of town the term gentle intensification and what's in terms of intensification is subjective

4:28:15everybody has different thoughts about that city staff has said clearly that they consider this to

4:28:21be gentle intensification and meet with all the factors that they see in the in the in the official

4:28:28plan specifically under section 9.3 policy section 9.3 we also think about intensification is

4:28:38intensification like an apartment building like the apartment buildings that we see on gordon or

4:28:43edinburgh or even our co-road that's certainly a different and higher level of intensification

4:28:50so everybody's ideas of what intensification is can vary and in this case we are

4:28:56um we have planning staff saying that it is intensification i also have we have a planner on

4:29:04staff who couldn't make it today and and he provides the same opinion that you know there's

4:29:09really nothing wrong with having different housing types on the same street there's nothing wrong

4:29:13with ad use the bylaw and the op both encourage and make provision of these um just because

4:29:23something is not exactly the same as it was beside it does not mean that it is not compatible or

4:29:28consistent with the existing character character is subjective and as i said earlier i i can think

4:29:34of homes on queen street um where i see one of the largest incredible mansions and right beside

4:29:43it or almost two properties beside it is like an apex work just fine so i think the variety of

4:29:51housing is what we need and this application um fits all the criteria fits the need for housing

4:30:03will be done professionally well as we can see with the other projects that have been completed

4:30:08by this developer planning staff is in support and i'd ask for staff support ask for this committee

4:30:16support and i'd be happy to answer any more questions that the committee might have thank you

4:30:22thank you mr. pussman i'm sure there may be a a couple of questions uh committee members do we

4:30:28have questions sir i'm gonna go with member seagull first um so through you the chair either to the

4:30:40applicant or to staff um can you confirm how the properties proposed to be serviced is it private or

4:30:45through municipal servicing or municipal the the the well will be decommissioned when whenever a

4:30:52development like this happens the city asks that the well be decommissioned and the septic

4:30:56will be decommissioned and they'll all be connected to services yes for sure i do have another question

4:31:10um just to confirm what we're looking at here um i just want to understand if this does comply with

4:31:17the 2023 by-law as it's being um appealed so is this considered a multi-unit building or semi-detached

4:31:27maybe to staff or to the applicant for the chair to members seagull um so this development would

4:31:34be considered a semi-detached unit right so there's four lots two semi-detached dwellings four

4:31:40semi-detached units um and three or up to two ad use are permitted per lot um so that would be

4:31:49three units per lot 12 units total as many members of the public have stated uh and zoning staff would

4:31:55look at this as a semi-detached units not uh um i forget the wording that you use multi-use

4:32:02multi-unit okay so in that case i believe for semi-detached you have to have a certain

4:32:07law area and frontage per unit is that correct so does this comply with those requirements

4:32:14through the chair yes it does comply with those requirements so those requirements are

4:32:18per semi-detached dwelling unit those don't include additional dwelling units that's just per

4:32:24the main semi-dwelling unit and that's seven and a half meters of frontage is required and 230 square

4:32:29meters of lot size is required okay thank you i thought i saw member spears with his hand

4:32:39yeah through you mr chair to the applicant um there's a couple of things i want to touch on one

4:32:44is that the we saw some floor plans that weren't part of the application and apparently went to

4:32:50to the neighborhood uh do you concur that those are are accurate and and what's intended those

4:32:56are preliminary house plans yes okay uh and one of the delegations mentioned that that she considered

4:33:04the that these things would be rooming houses in fact classed as a rooming house because they had

4:33:09five bedrooms how do you how will that work i don't know the lodging what this the definition of

4:33:15lodging home in terms of the city bylaws and so on i'm not i'm not up on lodging and how this compares

4:33:23to lodging this is not how i understood it to be okay then then if i can redirect that question to

4:33:29city staff because if i look at the well the website quickly it seems to me there's there's

4:33:34maybe some confusion yes through uh through the chair to member spears so there is a little bit

4:33:41of a gray area so a lodging house as defined in the zoning bylaw i'm just reading the definition

4:33:46here of lodging house type one so that means uh the whole of a building used to provide five or

4:33:52more lodging units for hire or gain directly or indirectly uh two persons so whether or not this

4:33:58is a lodging house would depend on whether or not you consider each of those bedrooms to be

4:34:04a lodging unit or not and whether or not that's considered a lodging unit um is something that

4:34:11we don't really have enough information to go off of based on what's being submitted here today

4:34:15so we're just taking the applicant out their word if it is determined that it is a lodging house then

4:34:20obviously um zoning staff would not be able to approve the building permit but i did speak to

4:34:26zoning staff prior to this meeting unfortunately they're unable to attend but they did give me

4:34:31some examples of what they look for to differentiate between a main dwelling uh and a lodging house so

4:34:36i can read some of those off if you'd like uh just one moment so here they say in order to distinguish

4:34:48between a dwelling unit and a lodging house recent case law has identified some of the key

4:34:52characteristics of a dwelling unit to try and help define what a single housekeeping unit is

4:34:57these dwelling unit characteristics include the following one that all the tenants in a house

4:35:02knowing each other well in advance of signing their lease two all of the tenants deciding together

4:35:07who gets which room with no influence from the owner or or their representative three no keyed

4:35:14locks on any of the bedroom doors four the tenants enter into a group lease five tenants pay the rent

4:35:21as a group six the tenants pay all of the utilities in their name separate from the rent seven that

4:35:28neither the owner nor any of their relatives live in the house although this may help to reduce the

4:35:32number of lodgers to four or less if they are on the ownership um i forget what number i'm at now

4:35:39but um another one is that the tenants have access to the entire house uh and that the tenants provide

4:35:45all of their furniture for the entire house that the tenants are responsible for the cleaning of

4:35:49the house and that there have not been any renovations to increase the number of bedrooms

4:35:54in the house um and so i think there was some uh members of the public who did note that

4:36:01ad use are not permitted on a property where a lodging house is present that is correct if you

4:36:05have a lodging house on a lot uh ad use are not permitted also it notes in section 4.2 3 that ad

4:36:13use are permitted to take up a whole of a single detached uh dwelling uh and as i was just saying

4:36:19to member seagull the minimum lot size for a semi-detached dwelling is 230 square meters um but

4:36:24for a single detached dwelling it is 460 square meters so these lots would not be eligible um for

4:36:31the lodging house use um that being said there is no maximum number of bedrooms for the main

4:36:37dwelling unit there is a maximum number of bedrooms of three bedrooms for a basement ad

4:36:42you and two bedrooms for all other ad use i just gave you a bit of a mouthful but hopefully that

4:36:47okay no but i think that and and you you calm me down and you said it would be part of the

4:36:53the building permit process that would that would would be a roadblock to to this to the

4:36:59rooming house idea because i you know that just changes the the definition is quite a bit so i

4:37:04think that answered my question um i i just but back to the applicant i think a number of of people

4:37:14said they really would love to have this thing deferred so that the neighborhood had an opportunity

4:37:21to discuss uh with the developer and come to some kind of common understanding and and a way forward

4:37:28does that have any legs at all my uh my the developers asked me he would rather not have this

4:37:34deferred um okay and uh that's it for for the moment i think for me member seagull uh through

4:37:51you the share back to staff just another clarification on the unit so um just want to be clear kind of

4:37:56semi-detached without an ad you comprise of more than one unit because if not that i'm kind of confused

4:38:04why there'd be this regulation of a per unit for you know area plan or frontage if a semi-detached

4:38:12inherently is its own unit through the chair to member seagull so theoretically one could build

4:38:19a semi-detached dwelling without splitting it into two separate lots so that way if you were to keep

4:38:25a semi-detached dwelling on one lot without severing it down the middle then they would have to have

4:38:29a minimal frontage of 15 meters between the two semi-detached dwelling units and a minimal

4:38:34lot size of 230 per unit so that would be 460 right okay that makes sense thank you thank you

4:38:43member seagull um committee and member bellarmine uh through you mr chair to staff i'm just the whole

4:38:52thing about built form and and uh the massing and the scale of these units compared to the

4:39:01neighborhood has been something that's bothering me a bit about this and that they they don't really

4:39:07fit the the neighborhood and i know that changing densities and changing um you know

4:39:14increasing the number of people in neighborhoods does impact built form but this seems quite

4:39:22different and when you reviewed it from a standpoint of that under the official plan

4:39:27you feel that that meets the requirements of the official plan in terms of

4:39:32massing and built form and and all of that through the chair to member ballaban yes i do

4:39:39feel that it does meet those requirements in the official plan so we did review all of those

4:39:44requirements uh outlined in 9.3.1.1 of the official plan so i think i might need to remind the

4:39:54committee that compatible does not necessarily mean identical with all of the dwellings and lots

4:40:00that are in the neighborhood um it just means that it would not inhibit or significantly impact

4:40:06the neighboring properties and their ability to use their property and i think i should also

4:40:12mention that this um proposal unlike that one on seven newstead that was brought up earlier

4:40:19the lot frontage lot size the setbacks etc all conforms with the zoning bylaw as passed by council

4:40:25last year um and as we know zoning bylaw documents do have to conform with the city's official plan

4:40:32before they're passed um so staff took that into consideration in the fact that it can

4:40:37this proposal conforms with the zoning bylaw that was passed by council um and is therefore

4:40:42considered to to meet the official plan on those grounds as well thank you and one more

4:40:50question for staff with respect to the engineering and the servicing with respect to um the drainage

4:40:57issue like i you know without having um stormwater management other than the ditches and no sidewalks

4:41:03and those kinds of things the impacts of that seem to be kind of daunting with all those people

4:41:13i and and you know the stormwater certainly will be an impact and that you feel satisfied that that's

4:41:21going to be able to be handled without any negative impacts on surrounding neighbors and

4:41:26on the street itself uh through the turn of member ballaban yet they have the applicant will have to

4:41:34meet the stormwater criteria and the dem which has which outlines specific um specific conditions

4:41:51committee members any additional questions um i have a couple and i um do miss remember

4:42:01good fellow uh error about stormwater management if we could pick up on that and her expertise would

4:42:07have been uh would have i think contributed very well to this conversation i'm going to pick that

4:42:14up a little bit and um given that there are going to be uh there are proposed to be uh two semi

4:42:21detached properties driveways at five meters on each half of the semi detached properties

4:42:30plus adru's in the backyard um the surface the hard surface covering is going to increase

4:42:39exponentially and so um how is that going i mean i'm not really clear that the answer given about

4:42:49stormwater management is is making me feel really comfortable do you have anything else that you can

4:42:54add to that because um we're going from lot coverage of probably 10 percent to lot coverage of

4:43:02you tell me close to 40 percent um is there any anticipation of having a stormwater management

4:43:10plan in place prior to um where we to approve this as as a condition of of this application

4:43:20uh to the chair the yeah stormwater management report uh is the condition number one of the

4:43:32engineering conditions okay thank you for that um i do have there are a few items that were brought

4:43:40up by members of the public and i'd be remiss if i didn't bring them forward so forgive me

4:43:46while i look at my notes um one thing that came up is um if this particular zoning bylaw

4:43:57is under appeal at the present time if at the Ontario land tribunal the appeal was rejected

4:44:07does that mean what are the implications for that through you mr chair the uh the zoning

4:44:16bylaws currently under appeal by the guelph-wollington development association uh and their appeal is

4:44:21generally on the grounds that they think that some of these provisions are maybe a little bit too

4:44:27harsh or not not lenient enough um so if this develop or if this uh appeal if these appeals

4:44:34were rejected um then the bylaw as we see it today would then be in effect alternatively if the

4:44:43appeals were successful then we would likely see provisions that would be more relaxed than what

4:44:47we're seeing here today the likelihood of anything uh of a bylaw being put in place that would be more

4:44:53restrictive than the 2023 bylaw as passed by council last year is um highly unlikely so i guess

4:45:01where i'm going with this is that um we wouldn't be having this discussion if the appeal was uh

4:45:09was rejected um that's not necessarily the case so if if this appeal uh was rejected and the

4:45:17bylaw were brought into full conformity then no minor variances would be required but of course

4:45:22you would still have to come to yourselves at the committee of adjustment as severances are

4:45:26still required okay thank you um in terms of the lot size uh is it 9.1 is the width yes 9.1 per semi

4:45:39and is is that acceptable under um the zoning bylaw under appeal through you mr chair yes it is so

4:45:48the minimum lot frontage uh in the rl one zone for a semi-detached dwelling unit is 7.5 meters

4:45:55thank you i just wanted to make that clear to our um our our members of the public who are here um as

4:46:03well um in terms of the setback from the street i know that um there is a substantial setback

4:46:12as mr abuseman has pointed out there can be four cars in the driveway um however i do also note

4:46:19that the neighboring properties sit further back from this proposal and i wonder staff if you have

4:46:29considered um that as a prerequisite through you mr chair so the uh required front yard setback for

4:46:38new lots is six uh six meter setback that being said i don't think uh staff would feel comfortable

4:46:45supporting a development like this out of six meters setback um but the proposed setback of the

4:46:49dwelling um sorry there's a few of these applications going forward tonight i believe it is 10.4 uh

4:46:57meters to the um covered porch on the dwelling so that is uh slightly further forward than some

4:47:04of the adjacent buildings um but not completely out of the out of the ordinary um for ridgeway

4:47:11just generally speaking as a planning consideration is it not accepted planning practice that it

4:47:17should be the average of the two neighboring properties through you mr chair that is actually

4:47:23zoning bylaw uh requirement uh if if there was two developed properties on either side

4:47:30but because we're talking about multiple severances here some of these properties would then be vacant

4:47:35and therefore that front yard averaging provision would not apply okay thank you and um the uh

4:47:48a member of the public uh a couple of members of public built up that brought up that this

4:47:54width in terms of the infill um requirement in the uh zoning bylaw it didn't seem to comply

4:48:04did can you uh can you mention i know that minimum uh lot sizes have been addressed but can you

4:48:11mention uh dig into that a little bit for me absolutely so i think the um point that the

4:48:19members of the public made that you are referencing is um what is it section 9.3.1.1

4:48:26of the official plan stating that proposals for residential lot infill will be compatible

4:48:31with the general frontage of lots in the immediate vicinity um so as i stated to

4:48:36member balaban the recently approved zoning bylaw does require our permit for minimum

4:48:42lot frontages of 7.5 meters for semi-detached dwelling units and that zoning bylaw as passed

4:48:47by council is deemed to be compliant with the official plan um so this isn't a lot frontage that

4:48:55um would not be permitted on rl one lots um so for example that seven newstead proposal that

4:49:05that was brought up by a couple of the members of the public that was a situation where

4:49:09it was a single detached lot so there's a minimum lot frontage requirement of 15 meters rather than

4:49:147.5 and they were asking for a minimum frontage of 10 meters so this section would certainly

4:49:21um wouldn't not be passed if you're talking about something that would significantly reduce the

4:49:25frontage from what is required in the zoning bylaw but in this situation the proposal does conform

4:49:30with the zoning bylaws required frontage and therefore we consider it to meet that section

4:49:35of the official plan okay thank you for that and um one of the delegations um brought forward the

4:49:43idea that with approximately 40 units being rented that um the density per hectare would

4:49:52dramatically increase and it would not qualify as as r1 but it would be mid-density um can you comment

4:50:02on that through you mr chair i think um what the delegate stated was that the number of units

4:50:10that 12 units that are proposed would exceed that density of 35 units per hectare in the low density

4:50:17residential designation in the official plan it's not 40 units i think the number that

4:50:21members of the public state was 40 bedrooms not 40 units it's 12 units um and so when that those

4:50:29requirements were input into the official plan uh ad use were not considered to contribute to the

4:50:36units per hectare calculation in the official plan so staff have not uh factored that in uh to the

4:50:42density calculations so you're saying ad r use are not included in in that density calculation

4:50:49that is correct yes thank you and um sorry i know we've been at this a while but i just want to be

4:50:58thorough um if rather than um rather than developing this as four lots with semi-detached

4:51:10properties um if this was proposed as one um six plaques or eight plaques there'd be fewer

4:51:20people living on the property but that would require a zoning plan amendment would it not

4:51:27through you mr chair that is correct that would require a zoning bylaw amendment

4:51:33okay thank you those are all the questions i have that i've gleaned from uh my own tiny brain and

4:51:39from the members of the public that have presented today um yes member ballaban through you mr chair

4:51:47i just have another question with respect to the um engineering um given that this is such a unique

4:51:57area with the wells and the septics and and i know under this could be building or engineering i

4:52:03know under the well i don't know under the building code isn't it that there you can't negatively impact

4:52:09a neighboring property with any of your drainage and with their with this being such a change and if

4:52:18it does negatively impact a well or a septic on any of the sides because there are a few of them

4:52:24around still what would be the impact like who who's going to pay to repair all of that

4:52:31or if there is a negative impact on somebody's well or septic or

4:52:38is it will the developer be held responsible for that like is there is there is that true like

4:52:50is that i mean it used i know i mean it used to be the fact that you couldn't negatively impact

4:52:55a neighboring property with your drainage so impacting a property with drainage uh the

4:53:05the developer will have to come up with a grading plan um and that grading plan will

4:53:10need to be implemented and so it's developers responsibility to ensure that there's no negative

4:53:18impact with regard to drainage so does that apply to stormwater drain everything right so if his

4:53:25if all of this development on this property impacts somebody's well or septic in this circumstance

4:53:32would that apply i am not sure on well on wells um there is a requirement that the owner will have

4:53:48to get some geotechnical and hydro hydro hydrogeological information uh with the stormwater report

4:53:56and maybe you should be doing that on all the neighboring properties that he may impact

4:54:05if i jump in member ballamon unfortunately we normally have a represented from the building

4:54:11department who is present at these meetings but they are not able to attend today so they would

4:54:16likely be able to uh kelly pats her i think you may remember her um she would be able to speak to a

4:54:22question like this but unfortunately she isn't present today um however as louis has pointed

4:54:27out there are a number of engineering reports that would need to be uh completed to the satisfaction

4:54:32of the city engineer prior to the certificate of official for the severance being approved

4:54:39and there are two years to satisfy those conditions of severance and if they are not satisfied in

4:54:43those two years then the severance would be considered lapsed thank you committee members any

4:54:54additional questions okay um it's been a long evening so far um what is our

4:55:02what is our uh wish as a committee yes members i'd like to make a motion to refuse the applications

4:55:14we have a motion to refuse the application and do i have a seconder member ballaban

4:55:21um can we have some debate on this issue yeah i i guess i'm just basing the motion on you know

4:55:31when you look at the criteria for consents you know at the outset of section 51-24 the planning

4:55:37act it says you know regardless we had among other things to the welfare of the present

4:55:44and future inhabitants of the municipality and i don't think that's being that's been adequately

4:55:49taken into account here and you know when we consider other you know the the four main items

4:55:57we look at when we're looking at consents you know can the application be supported if it's

4:56:01reasonable and in the best interest of the community i don't think it is um this is kind of a it's a

4:56:07unique community there's no sidewalks no shoulders there's no storm water there's ditches so i think

4:56:15the um the delicacy here have raised really um valid concerns about traffic safety

4:56:26you know the the infrastructure won't support this i don't believe so and storm water management

4:56:36street lighting i just have a lot of concerns so that's that's my basic thinking thank you any

4:56:44other i think i've i've asked enough questions and i'm still

4:56:52unclear as to it so i agree i think it's uh it's a no-go for me okay and um i'd like to echo some

4:57:02of that the one of the things i've talked about on my in my role both as chair and as a member in

4:57:12the past is avoiding rezoning by other means and while i accept that it could be argued that each

4:57:23individual lot is is is covered under the the zoning bylaw of 2023 that's under appeal

4:57:35when taken in totality i think we have to take this into totality and as i pointed out if this was

4:57:42a six plex there would be fewer residents and it would be subject to a zoning plan amendment

4:57:48an eight plex in fact would have fewer residents and given as my colleague has pointed out um the

4:57:55fact that this is a a very different kind of city situation with narrow roads safety is a big concern

4:58:06as is stormwater management so i will be supporting the refusal as well any other

4:58:14comments or debate member spears yeah i um i i really to a large extent agree with what you just

4:58:23said and i and i feel like at this point in in in history it's incumbent on the city to get ahead

4:58:30of this and provide infrastructure that will make it safe and will make it appropriate and they need

4:58:35to do that in this neighborhood it it's just it's just the cart before the horse and i think that if

4:58:42if if developers want this to go through they need to not come here they need to go at a different

4:58:49part of the city to get them to to make infrastructure changes any other debate or comment

4:58:59seeing none madam secretary treasurer may we have the vote please committee members please

4:59:06indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion which is to refuse the

4:59:11application in favor thank you chair smith member ballaban in favor member membranio in favor

4:59:23member sear in favor member seagull in favor and member spears in favor that's carried mr chair

4:59:35your application has been refused okay thank you order in the chamber please i appreciate that

4:59:44it's been a long night i do appreciate your patience and i do appreciate a lot of respect but

4:59:56we're not an entertainment venue but thank you ladies and gentlemen for your patience

5:00:02at this point um madam secretary treasurer i would like to call a five-minute recess

5:08:45okay thank you ladies and gentlemen for your indulgence i'd like to call the uh

5:08:52the 20 pardon me the june 27th meeting of committee of adjustment back to order at this point madam

5:09:00secretary treasurer may we have the next applicant the next applications are files b 29 24

5:09:13dash 30 slash 24 b dash 31 slash 24 consent to create two new residential lots with one retained

5:09:20residential lot and consent for a lot addition at 35 and 41 janefield avenue for those attending

5:09:26remotely if you wish to speak to this application you can do so by calling the number displayed on

5:09:30the screen that number is 519-822-1260 extension 2524 and when you call in staff will give you

5:09:39instructions on how you can delegate remotely thank you and welcome back um can you state your

5:09:45name for the record please jeff buesman vent horton surveying and um was the sign posted as per the

5:09:53planning act yes it was and have you read staff's comments and are you in agreement i have read the

5:09:58comments and i'm in agreement thank you and as you know mr buesman you have 10 minutes to make as

5:10:04much for us a little time of that as you'd like so this is another situation where houses were

5:10:10built in septics and wells and being rejuvenated and uh we've been at this community before because

5:10:17we there were several severances approved just to the north of this uh you could see on the

5:10:23severance sketch approved severance b 4d b 5d 11 b 12 24 um and they were approved at that time

5:10:32this uh law configuration and so forth was based on a zoning special zoning bylaw amendment

5:10:39that was um uh before city council not that long ago can't remember how long ago not that long ago

5:10:47but it was approved by city council and uh with this configuration and so now we're just taking the

5:10:53nest next step forward and then that is having first severances of these uh there is a as you

5:11:00could see at the top of the sketch there's a before and after picture that's always helpful to see

5:11:05the configuration right now is a narrow strip of 35 which was left over from the previous development

5:11:11to the north and then house number 41 so and then you'll see the after with the four narrower

5:11:18parcels these are all 8.3 meters wide uh in an area about about 460 square meters again these will

5:11:28have 80 us in the back as shown uh parking for three cars in the front of each unit uh two in

5:11:36front of the unit one in the garage um there's walkways designed to go to the back and again

5:11:43the engineering type things a lot of that has already been done or underway in terms of the

5:11:49geotechnical hydro g doing a stormwater management plan that kind of stuff is all very very far along

5:11:55the way so i'm going to keep it brief and keep it there um and entertain questions

5:12:05thank you um are there any members of the auditorium who would like to um speak to this

5:12:13this presentation uh seeing none madam secretary treasurer do we have any delegations online

5:12:22chair smith i can confirm no other delegation requests okay um committee members do you have

5:12:29any questions of the applicant seeing none um i did have a question about the zoning there was a

5:12:43rezoning application um and that was her dapral nine i think if that's the date that it that sounds

5:12:51about right but i can't remember the exact date but it was approved and maybe staff can uh confirm

5:12:56that yes through you mr chair that went to city council on april ninth of this year and was approved

5:13:04okay thank you very much um member ballerband through you mr chair to staff it it still has

5:13:11a holding provision on it when when will that holding provision or what's the anticipated

5:13:17time to have that removed through the chair and member ballerband the holding provision is in place

5:13:23until i believe it's a storm water management report um and i think there was one other item

5:13:29i believe i mentioned in the report but there are two engineering documents that are required uh to

5:13:33be submitted to the satisfaction of the engineering department before that age can be lifted and know

5:13:39the certificate of official will not be issued and building permits will not be issued for this

5:13:43property until that age is lifted and what's the process for that now is it another public meeting

5:13:50or no no so there is no longer any public meetings for each uh removal so that is uh delegated authority

5:13:57to the general manager of the building and planning department thank you um any other questions of the

5:14:08applicant seeing none committee members what is your pleasure i'm going to rely on member

5:14:24speakers this time i move that uh we uh approve this application uh with the conditions uh recommended

5:14:33by city staff and do i have a seconder member ballerband the discussion or debate on the

5:14:42proposal in front of us seeing none madam secretary treasurer may we have the vote

5:14:50thank you chair committee members please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to

5:14:54the motion which is to approve the applications with the recommended conditions chair smith

5:14:59in favor member ballerband in favor member membranio in favor members sear in favor member seagull

5:15:07in favor and member spears in favor that's carried mr chair your application has been approved

5:15:14thank you you're welcome madam secretary treasurer may we i believe this is the last

5:15:25application may we have it please the final applications for this evening our files b dash

5:15:3732 slash 24 to be 34 slash 24 and a 40 slash 24 to a 43 slash 24 consent to create three new

5:15:47residential lots with one retained residential lot related variances to permit garage width

5:15:53area and location driveway width and required parking space for proposed severed and retained

5:15:58lots at 10 orchard crescent um for those watching online if you wish to speak to this application

5:16:05you can do so by calling the number displayed on the screen that number is 519 822 1260

5:16:11extension 2524 and when you call in staff will give you instructions on how you can delegate

5:16:16remotely i'll also note that correspondence was received after the comment deadline from peter

5:16:22mclenigan and that correspondence has been circulated to the committee members and staff

5:16:28thank you um thank you for hanging on mr buesman would you state your name for the record please

5:16:40jeff buesman van harten surveying and was the sign posted as per the planning yes it was

5:16:46and have you read staff's comments and are you in agreement i've read the comments and i'm in

5:16:51agreement with them thank you and you have 10 minutes thank you this is on orchard crescent

5:17:01again it's a very large lot um and the lot is in the proposal here is to divide this into

5:17:08semi-detached units that conform with zoning they're 7.6 meters wide 347 meters squared the

5:17:18minimum is 260 so they've been designed conformance with zoning you can see we have again the same

5:17:27five minor variances that we've talked about in the past that we need to bring them forward to

5:17:32make them apply uh to this property you can see that we're proposing that the fronts of these units

5:17:40be set back quite a bit 14 meters that's so that it's more in line with the house to the right number

5:17:4612 which is set back quite a ways um again we provide the opinion that and the staff has provided

5:17:57the opinion that this conforms with the uh official plan the provincial policies uh it was a zoning

5:18:04bylaw and that it um even though it's a different form it is compatible with the with the neighborhood

5:18:13and that it's low residential uh low density residential um many of the comments i made earlier

5:18:22just missing my notes here at the same fundamentally that this is supported by city staff and and

5:18:28also this was this is what was envisioned by city council when they created that bylaw

5:18:35be happy to answer any questions or any comments from committee members

5:18:40thank you if you want to um stand by um i'll see if there are any people who would like to speak

5:18:47to this i see that we have registered delegations um madam secretary treasurer may we have the first

5:18:53delegate the first is barbara liby before this delegate speaks i just want to um thank the

5:19:07delegates who are standing by for their patience this has been a long evening so um thank you for

5:19:14your patience and we appreciate all your opinions so uh welcome say your name for the record please

5:19:20Barbara liby and you have 10 minutes and you can make as much or as little time you a use of that

5:19:26time if you'd like okay thank you my name is Barbara liby my husband Warren and i have lived at

5:19:32six orchard crescent beside the property being discussed today for nine years but we've lived in

5:19:37guelph or the immediate area for over 20 years i taught healthcare in guelph for 12 years my husband

5:19:44is the past president of syngenta canada and was responsible for bringing the canadian head office

5:19:49to guelph's research park creating well-paying jobs for over a hundred families for the past 20 plus

5:19:55years our three daughters graduated from the university of guelph with two with master's degrees

5:20:01we have two daughters and four grandchildren living in guelph we are highly vested in guelph and feel

5:20:07that we have contributed much to this city we are not opposed to increasing housing density in guelph

5:20:13even on our street but we do strongly oppose the extreme densification being considered on the lot

5:20:19next to us we chose to relocate to six orchard crescent nine years ago when we retired since it

5:20:25was a co older quiet and well-street is treed neighborhood of single detached homes this is

5:20:32where we plan to spend the rest of our lives unfortunately the push for such extreme densification

5:20:38is now threatening the quality of our lives in retirement and we wish to make the committee

5:20:42aware of how its decisions affect the lives of long-term contributing members of the community

5:20:48since it feels like how it impacts us is secondary to the interests of others we have two major

5:20:54concerns to bring to the committee's attention first is that severing the property into four

5:21:01lots leaves two little side yard clearance along our property line it is important to know that

5:21:0710 orchard quet crescent is on a steep hill and our property is downhill from that along the property

5:21:14lines are over 50 beautiful healthy and mature cedar trees these trees are teeming with birds small

5:21:20animals and are important in helping mitigate the runoff of water from the neighbor's property

5:21:25onto ours with the proposed side yard allowance of just 1.2 meters which isn't very very wide we are

5:21:34certain that all these beautiful and mature trees will be killed by the construction which in a city

5:21:38like guelph which prides itself in its green values is unacceptable we are also concerned that any

5:21:44construction literally within inches of our property line will kill our trees and our beautiful

5:21:49established perennial gardens if these cedar trees were to be removed or killed it would detract

5:21:55from the neighborhood it would eliminate the home for the countless birds and animals and would

5:21:59result in excessive water runoff and erosion from the higher property in question onto ours if this

5:22:06happens and the construction kills our trees and gardens or excessive water runoff and flooding

5:22:12who will pay for this the second concern we have is the lack of parking in the proposal the reality

5:22:19of modern life is that most families are by necessity to income families and have two cars if

5:22:26there are older children living at home which there are in our neighborhood there are even more

5:22:31cars this means that the proposed four family units will add at least eight cars to the property

5:22:37and likely more we are also concerned that the basements of these apart these units could become

5:22:43rental units thereby exploding the number of cars next door to over 16 where now there was just one

5:22:52under the current proposal only four parking spots will be required and that is insufficient

5:22:57people need to park somewhere and will be forced to park up and down both sides of our street

5:23:01which is a busy walker street with no sidewalks and what happens in the winter when cars are not

5:23:07allowed to park on the street overnight specifically we have four requests for the committee to

5:23:15consider we believe that the maximum number of lots that this property can reasonably accommodate

5:23:21without destruction of trees or causing water issues is two that is a duplex situated in the

5:23:28center of the lot to maximize side yard space and to minimize adverse effects on the trees

5:23:34although this is less than what the developer would prefer to do to maximize his profits

5:23:39from a densification perspective this will already be doubling what was already there

5:23:44we encourage the committee to require the developer to hire professional arborists to

5:23:48evaluate the tree situation to determine if and how construction could proceed without damaging the

5:23:54trees regardless of how many lots are severed or how many structures are built this assessment must

5:24:00consider the health of the trees not only on 10 orchard but our trees along the property line

5:24:06we encourage the committee to require the developer to hire a professional landscape architect or

5:24:11other professional to conduct an environmental assessment to determine what steps need to be

5:24:17taken to ensure that there is no excessive water runoff or soil erosion from the developer's

5:24:22higher elevation property onto our lower property finally each family unit on this property including

5:24:29any basement family units must have parking for at least 1.5 cars thank you for hearing our concerns

5:24:36we appreciate the city's initiative to create more housing and therefore would support a duplex

5:24:41next door where there is just one unit today but more than that is just a step too far like others

5:24:47in our neighborhood we have long-term contributed we have been long-term contributors to this city

5:24:53and believe the city has an ethical obligation to protect the interests of its current loyal

5:24:58taxpaying citizens as it seeks to build housing for new citizens thank you very much thank you very

5:25:04much do you want to wait right there and see if we have any questions committee members do we have

5:25:09any questions i do have one and that is if we're facing number 10 you are to the left am i correct

5:25:20yes so you're downhill downhill very downhill and would you estimate that two three four meters

5:25:32two let's say two perfect thank you it's a steep walk let's put it that way oh yes i know yeah okay

5:25:39thank you i we have no other questions but i appreciate your your presentation thank you

5:25:48madam secretary treasurer can we have the next applicant

5:25:52ron hebden sorry i said applicant not delegate welcome can you state your name for the record

5:26:08please as soon as i get my glasses how can you read them if you don't have your glasses

5:26:18thank you my name is ron hebden and you have 10 minutes to address the committee mr hebden

5:26:28okay i live at 79 calendar drive so my property adjoins the proposed

5:26:36severance which is 45.7 meters and i adjoin 20.6 meters of this property i i find that

5:26:53this proposal is the same as the ones we've really listened to all night from the same developer

5:27:01but we were not afforded or given any information about what would be built there

5:27:07the others got schematic drawings how many bedrooms how many people would be there

5:27:13so we can only assume because of the schematic drawing we were given for the property line

5:27:21that's uh the first level is six steps up so it's two and a half stories

5:27:30which means the rear which is lower could have a walkout so it could mean two units

5:27:40in each unit so this four units could be eight units but we don't know because the developer

5:27:48has not informed us whatsoever i also understand that i didn't make any presentation or written

5:27:57submission on the 9th of april when the city was discussing this infilling

5:28:04so i am now a third party and really don't have any rights on the severance what is presented

5:28:12here tonight is merely an opportunity to comment on minor variances requested by the developer

5:28:18to this plan which supposedly meets all the requirements by the new bylaw to a resident

5:28:25of the neighborhood i've been here 40 years i find the proposal before me major change not minor

5:28:35the survey drawing supplied may accurately represent the lot lines and the foundation

5:28:41positions of the two duplexes on four individual lots the representation of six entry steps again

5:28:51gives us a two and a half story elevation spruce living i understand from tonight is mostly a rental

5:29:01company so how many bedrooms will there be and what looks good on this paper necessarily doesn't

5:29:12meet our neighborhood i had submitted a letter to the committee that the redeveloped single

5:29:21family home on a large lot will be replaced by hard structure roofs and driveways in the last

5:29:30this might cover maybe 60 of the property area in the last few weeks we've had lots of rain

5:29:39the property at tan orchard again is at least one meter above my lot at the highest point

5:29:46so a 1.2 meter separation between the foundation of the new building and the property line

5:29:53doesn't really allow for any runoff except to my property when i built my present house on lot 11

5:30:01it was on a registered plan 484 i had to provide a 2.2 meter swale which was a separation for the

5:30:10water to run on my property i was not allowed to add any water to additional to my adjoining

5:30:20properties this was the protection that was offered to the existing property owners when i got my

5:30:28severance now the survey drawings presented tonight show a hedge on the north and south side of the

5:30:35property lines it shows it as a small hedge this is actually rows of cedar trees there's probably

5:30:45on both sides it would accumulate to maybe a hundred trees the diameter the width of these trees

5:30:53is about two meters all of these roots are in the 1.2 meter of the separation between the foundation

5:31:04and the lot line so i don't really see that the trees will survive it's it's sort of contradictory

5:31:16that guelph promotes an objective to increase tree covering when actually i'm sure the developer

5:31:24will remove all of the trees which is is right because this property is like point

5:31:30maybe point three of an acre where point five is the rule so everyone affected by this proposal

5:31:43has a vested interest the developer wants to make money and the residents want to keep the

5:31:48neighborhood the way it is maybe the city could look at their unused portions of land to put their

5:31:56new regulations in so i reviewed the staff recommendations and the conditions contained

5:32:04in the extensive 12 page document a large part of the content is standard requests on all sentences

5:32:12some of my ejections are contained in this standard boilerplate to cover the basis there has to be a

5:32:20tree preservation plan prepared by a certified arborist for the approval and satisfaction

5:32:26of the general manager of parks all that is required is that the city-owned trees approved for removal

5:32:33or injury may be subject to compensation so i don't know how much a tree is worth to the city now

5:32:40a grading and drainage plan for the severed and retained land is to be provided and has been

5:32:47prepared in accordance with the city of gwell development engineering manual i hope the manual

5:32:54is good and it works the section of the report explains policy 9.3 of the official plan the

5:33:03subject lands are zoned low density residential which allows semi-detached dwelling use in any

5:33:10associated additional dwelling unit uses policy 9.3 of the official plan provides several objectives

5:33:20so that the new development is to be compatible with and preserve the general character of the

5:33:26established neighborhood staff recommends this gentle intensification will be compatible with

5:33:34existing development on the street other than renovations that have been

5:33:42done there have been no new developments on the street since the original properties were built

5:33:48upon so i'm not sure how the planning department department states that four two and a half story

5:33:57houses on 25 foot lot beside two one-story bungalows on 100 foot lots is compatible the front

5:34:09there are the staff comments also that the front and side yard setbacks are similar to other dwellings

5:34:15unordered no existing property is built within 1.2 meter of the lot line and no other property

5:34:22has a front lawn which consists of 3.1 meters of grass and 4.5 meters of driveway

5:34:33so i i don't really see how this is compatible so it's it's up to this committee to determine

5:34:43whether this is acceptable thank you thank you very much and do you want to wait right there for a

5:34:50moment committee members do we have any questions of this delegate seeing none thank you again very

5:34:58much item secretary treasurer may we have the next applicant bernadette mclennigan welcome can you

5:35:27state your name for the record please you have 10 minutes to address the committee and you can make

5:35:33as much use of that time as you like good evening to the chair and through the chair to all of you

5:35:45members my name is bernadette mclennigan and 12 orchard crescent has been my home for half a century

5:35:55orchard crescent currently has 13 homes on it housing approximately 36 people spruce living

5:36:03bought 10 orchard with the intention of adding seven more units 13 homes and seven units equals a 50

5:36:11increase on a 0.2 kilometer crescent furthermore house numbers 12 to 6 to stand descend

5:36:21down a steep treacherous hill that ends a calendar drive turn left and two houses later you reach

5:36:29aramasa road an intersection that is known for traffic accidents i was in one at that very corner

5:36:39myself when a speeding car misjudged his passing room and hit me from behind all i could do is watch

5:36:49the airborne corvette crash accordion style into the side of 59 calendar drive before dropping

5:36:57approximately seven feet to the ground therefore i do not feel reassured when the traffic engineering

5:37:04staff state in the committee of adjustment comments from staff public and agencies report

5:37:09that they and i quote did not express any concerns regarding additional traffic my 27 year old son

5:37:21lives and works from home at 12 orchard crescent will the survey be done to see how many other

5:37:27people living in the neighborhood also work from home because in addition to my traffic concerns

5:37:34i am also concerned about the increased noise and demo

5:37:39increased noise as demolition and construction takes place how will everyone's internet during

5:37:48and after the work done by spruce living be affected more importantly how will our collective

5:37:55internet speed be affected fiber internet is not on orchard crescent i also have an artistic son

5:38:07living at 12 orchard crescent he has high anxiety on a normal day this proposed build

5:38:16will undoubtedly send his anxiety to the nth degree our home is an oasis for him and his 15

5:38:24special needs friends who visit regularly wellington dufferin wealth public health have a motto that

5:38:31read and i quote there is no health without mental health and i can attest that the mental

5:38:38health of myself my family and my neighbors is being negatively impacted before number 15 orchard

5:38:48was sold in november of 2023 seven months ago go wild reality described it as in part and i quote

5:38:57tucked away on a tranquil crescent adorned by mature trees in a highly sought-after neighborhood

5:39:05the new buyers mayor and rosemary along with the rest of us on orchard are having the rug

5:39:11of tranquility pulled out from underneath us you know when i learned of the proposed development

5:39:17i contacted my ward two counselors and rodrigo galler suggested i drive down janefield to see

5:39:25the infill spruce living was doing there janefield is 0.9 kilometers of an avenue

5:39:34and the proposed development is happening on a flat road also on one side of janefield

5:39:41are about six detached homes the location of the proposed infill a for sale infill development

5:39:49sign with gary paul as the contact person chartwell retirement home and then a large number of

5:39:58attached dwellings the other side of janefield is all townhouses i cannot see how janefield avenue

5:40:08possesses the sense of tranquility heritage or character as evident on orchard crescent and

5:40:14the surrounding streets of calendar and sharewood drives in summary i am gravely concerned about the

5:40:22dangers all feel associated with increased traffic flow the ability to maintain the tranquility of

5:40:29our neighborhood as well as the overall aesthetics please i implore you do not approve the variances

5:40:38sought after by spruce living as that will simply place a pandora's box on ten orchard crescent

5:40:47thank you thank you for your very heartfelt comments committee members do we have any questions of

5:40:55this delegate seeing none i sincerely want to thank you for coming and presenting your point of view

5:41:02thank you madam secretary treasurer may we have the next delegation peter mclenigan welcome can you

5:41:27state your name for the record please uh my name is peter mclenahan you have 10 minutes to address

5:41:32the committee and you can make as much use of that time as you chair my points pretty much go hand

5:41:39in hand with everybody what everybody has said i'm going to give my presentation as is just anyway

5:41:48committee of adjustment members thank you for being here you play an important role in the

5:41:53planning process and in these days of expedited applications you seem to be the last voice of

5:41:59reason i live at 12 orchard crescent i've been there for 30 years with me and my lovely wife

5:42:08just to make about my background i had a 35 year career as a property assessor with the provincial

5:42:14government was a member of the institute of missalpal assessors of ontario and recognized as a

5:42:20professional witness by the ontario municipal board i can honestly say that i've never seen a

5:42:27proposal so egregious as this at least until i came here and i saw the other proposals this

5:42:33same builder has before you today the proposal before you shows no respect for the aesthetics

5:42:42of our neighborhood and utter contempt for the four neighbors directly abutting this property

5:42:48it will totally destroy our enjoyment of our once peaceful backyards not to mention our property values

5:42:57the variances being sought here would own would allow them to duplex each side of these semi-detached

5:43:03dwellings if they are required as per zoning to have the minimum parking spaces of one per

5:43:09dwelling unit the minimum then it looks like they need to find about another seven to ten feet per

5:43:17lot or come back here with another round of variances so this minor variance effectively

5:43:27allows them to cram what zoning says can be built on a 32 to 35 foot lot onto a 25 foot one

5:43:35i wouldn't call this a minor variance the proposal fails to take into account the unique topography

5:43:42of the lot it is effectively tiered on onto the side of a hill and drops off in two directions

5:43:51my pool deck and shed shown on the on on the survey that has been subjected by van hartner

5:43:58uh almost appear that shows them to be flat my pool deck and shed are approximately six to seven feet

5:44:06above the current rear yard elevation the drop off to six origin would be probably over eight feet

5:44:16there's a row of cedars on the side of both banks these trees were planted not only for privacy

5:44:22but to stabilize these banks they have been here since around the time the houses were built

5:44:27removing them is going to cause erosion issues which brings me to the next major issue they seem

5:44:32to want to ignore and there's runoff just looking at their diagram they want to increase coverage by

5:44:39three to four hundred percent with a corresponding increase in runoff so where is all this water

5:44:44going to go through stood in the rear yard you can pretty much see it's going to go into 70

5:44:5079 and 81 calendar unless these guys have found a way to make water go uphill this is going to

5:45:00cause serious issues frankly it looks like they think that the property is as flat as the paper

5:45:05they submitted this on as well as the rows of cedars along those lot lines there are three

5:45:11substantial trees on city property that appear to be in jeopardy the tree on my property right at

5:45:16the northeast northeast corner of the proposed buildings is a 60 plus foot tall blue spruce

5:45:23that my mother-in-law planted 50 years ago digging right up to the drip line of this tree will

5:45:28certainly destabilize this majestic beauty i have several other trees close to the lot line that

5:45:34will likely be impacted as well as do six orchard and 79 calendar we also have safety concerns regarding

5:45:43this development we have no sidewalks on orchard crescent it's amazing how this these developers

5:45:49seem to find every street without sidewalks to put in developments on the same builder i can't

5:45:55believe it this is a safety concern already it will only be exacerbated by a 50 increase of the

5:46:06number of residential units on the crescent and having cars parked on the road for these reasons

5:46:12we would ask the committee to reject the request for variances on this proposal it clearly doesn't

5:46:17fit in with the surrounding area and without these variances doesn't even fit on the lot

5:46:24i'd invite you to come and look at our lovely neighborhood i hope you have because it sounds

5:46:28like you make these decisions right away here and you see that our tranquility in our yards

5:46:34will be destroyed if this committee does approve this atrocious proposal and rams this up our

5:46:46rather down our throats then we would ask no rather we would demand the following a full stormwater

5:46:53management plan for this property with assurances that surrounding properties will not be affected

5:46:58in the least a full arborist report an inventory of trees as well as an allowance to the affected

5:47:05neighbors to replace damaged or remove trees and fencing the full engineers report on the effects

5:47:12of removing the cedars from the banks you know that because they have a couple more minutes

5:47:22i really like to speak on this whole process the infill legislation was supposed to take advantage

5:47:32of infill not for opportunities these developments are not taking advantage but rather creating

5:47:38infill opportunities they are doing this by demolishing a lovely 1950s ranch bungalow

5:47:44that many people would be proud to call home and dumping it into landfill nothing wrong with this

5:47:52house in fact it had a total renovation about 12 to 15 years ago shame these developments were touted

5:48:00as low impact to who i don't think you would call this low impact even if you were just driving by

5:48:06at the posted 40 kilometers an hour let alone if you live anywhere near them we realized there

5:48:13was a housing crisis we have two university educated sons who would love to get into the

5:48:18housing market but bad planning decisions at the municipal level are not going to fix a problem

5:48:25created by a lack of planning on the upper two tiers of government it will only create more

5:48:30problems in the long run developers like tt scove who developed this whole block block of land

5:48:37bordered by stevensson victoria aramos and speedville had vision and built a real community

5:48:44these tiny minded developers just wanted to destroy existing communities and maximize profits

5:48:51giving nothing back we had a few people on our street who couldn't be here today barb and

5:48:58davis lucat 14 had a trip planned to portugal two weeks notice they couldn't cancel we also had

5:49:08new neighbors new neighbors move in across the road at 11 uh who were just in the portfolio just

5:49:13now in the process of moving in fru and robin and they can't be here because they're attending a

5:49:20family wedding and perhaps the most glaring absence is anything from seven orchard crescent

5:49:27the owner is in senior management at this city and because she lacks union protection has effectively

5:49:32been gagged by the city through their conflict of interest policies i'm sure she could have

5:49:38spoken much more eloquently than most of us here today thank you for your time and please remember

5:49:45to take advantage of our invitation to come see the impact this will have on our neighborhood

5:49:50in person thank you very much thank you if you want to wait right there committee members do we

5:49:56have any uh questions for this applicant um i i just may note to you and others and to

5:50:05the public in general that um i know that i and other members of the committee of adjustment

5:50:11make it a point of going personally to every every uh application and residents and uh

5:50:20thank you i'm sure people appreciate that yes thank you so um just so you're aware we don't

5:50:26operate in a vacuum and just look at this on uh street view thank you very much thank you uh any

5:50:34other questions seeing none thank you again for if i could i'd just like to make a comment on uh

5:50:41what the what uh mr van hart and i'm sorry i don't know his name spoke about on as far as these uh

5:50:50the variances that they're they're being proposed in in future in in legislation that's under appeal

5:50:59the fact that they are here seeking a variance tells me that they have to do that because that

5:51:04isn't law yet so giving that anyway and him throwing that out here i think is a gross misrepresentation

5:51:11i've allowed that but um just so you're aware that the zoning bylaw were it not under appeal

5:51:18um other than the severances uh we wouldn't be here tonight so just as an educational point

5:51:25but thank you again for your presentation thank you madam secretary treasurer may we have the

5:51:30next application or delegation maryon kelly good evening can you state your name for the record

5:51:56please maryon kelly and uh you have 10 minutes to address the committee and you can make as much or

5:52:03as little use of that time as you'd like well thank you very much from the year 2000 until our

5:52:10departure from the toronto neighborhood known as hill crest we had the opportunity to witness first

5:52:16hand the redevelopment of an historic property and its subsequent tenetting with artist live and

5:52:24work uh studios and as a gigging trombone player married to a dance professional of course we

5:52:30advocated for this project even though it would double the housing on our street along with many

5:52:37interested parties and neighbors we halted the raising of the historic ttc which would burns

5:52:43and gladly ushered in new residents total success was had and evidence was presented

5:52:50that things can change in a positive fashion when all the residents needs are addressed with

5:52:57sensitivity and planning and a present and a present preservation aesthetic and environmental

5:53:03impact kept top of mind and parking for private cars minimized more on that later so yes the

5:53:13which would barns is a successful redevelopment and uh enlivened our previous neighborhood

5:53:19without changing the streetscape all was fairly good living across the street from artist live work

5:53:25studios farmers market and various cultural events and it was even a dillock that is until

5:53:32property management group the arms like city of toronto body known as artscape went into

5:53:38receivership late in 2023 throwing the whole endeavor into limbo so let's it's not alarmist

5:53:44when i question that a private company has multiple projects on the go will be in a position 10 years

5:53:50from now to continue adequate property management who knows when the property owners don't live on

5:53:56site they have less skin in the game ownership of your living space is key to maintenance pride

5:54:03and acting as a good neighbor so sure the proposed develop redevelopment on orchard crescent is an

5:54:08apple compared to the which would orange that i described in my opening remarks with some notable

5:54:14exceptions the orchard crescent redevelopment is a violent destruction of a perfectly viable

5:54:21mid-century modern home which deserves refurbishment rather than wholesale removal that's what we

5:54:27accomplished at which which would the city of guelph is missing an opportunity to steward a truly

5:54:33remarkable neighborhood and not all historic properties are farmhouses right so subdividing

5:54:40the lot also disrespects the scale and historical build that the neighborhood presents the which

5:54:46would architects in contrast consulted widely and at length with all of the stakeholders to address

5:54:53the exterior features and to keep architectural details intact wherever possible parking cars

5:55:01cars and more parking this was the main failing of the which would project besides the bankruptcy

5:55:06of the property management group but you know our Toronto street became clogged with private cars

5:55:12disputes with aggressive drivers were rampant and collisions alarmingly frequent not good

5:55:19what's to happen to the kids that can walk to school on orchard unthreatened by heavy traffic

5:55:24and the same with the dog walkers and joggers etc these pedestrian activities are what we want

5:55:30in environmentally concerned jurisdiction such as guelph right all I get from this redevelopment

5:55:37proposal on orchard is plans for a wider driveway parking eight or 12 units I haven't read all the

5:55:44details that some of my neighbors have but it seems to me that there's going to be a really

5:55:50like a lot more traffic and that that's a shame one of the things I loved about moving on to

5:55:57orchard was there was a bus stop right around the corner right so you know when age catches up to me

5:56:03and I can no longer drive I know I can still get downtown right so thank you for considering my

5:56:08thoughts and anecdotes in summary I'm opposed to this redevelopment and I'm not to be characterized

5:56:15as a nimby I'm on record supporting rent gear to income housing I fought for it sat on the

5:56:21tenetting panel for Artscape and I also grew up in poverty and I understand the importance of

5:56:27housing dignity and you know one of the surprising and disappointing aspects of this process has been

5:56:34the lack of consultation with the neighbors look spruce they own it right they they bought the

5:56:41house fair and square no one's gonna you know I'm not shaming myself to a tree right um but

5:56:47I really do believe that they need to be engaging the community more there's lots of ways to to

5:56:54treat that property seniors co-housing for example you know keep the footprint the same

5:57:00put a small dormitory on the back you know rent gear to income for disabled adults

5:57:07senior citizens would would I think be a much better fit than these these new projects that

5:57:16they have in mind thank you thank you very much for your perspective um committee members do we

5:57:23have any questions of this delegate um just one correction the building is not a mid-century

5:57:30modern it's a suburban bungalow but okay just for the record I want to be clear thank you again

5:57:38for your presentation uh I oh I'm sorry I'm on the wrong page we do have additional

5:57:51delegations I believe Madam Secretary treasurer the next delegate is Warren Libby

5:58:13welcome can you state your name for the record please yes my name is Warren Libby and as you've

5:58:19probably heard you have 10 minutes to address the committee well thank you very much I know it's

5:58:24been a long evening and I'll try to be as concise as possible but this is very important to us

5:58:31my wife and I long-term Guelph residents and contributors to Guelph live at Six Orchard Creston

5:58:37so we're the property directly adjacent to the one we're speaking of tonight on the left side

5:58:43given the sketch therefore we're one of the most impacted stakeholders by the decision of the committee

5:58:49like most residents of the city we chose this neighborhood for a reason as most people do

5:58:56some choose a neighborhood to be close to the vibrant downtown some want to be close to schools

5:59:03some want to minimize their commute to work we chose Creston Orchard Creston for our retirement home

5:59:10because it is a quiet mature neighborhood of well-kept homes with grand trees and lush gardens

5:59:17I'm virtually every lot it's a neighborhood where almost everyone walks and most people know one another

5:59:25it's a neighborhood with lots of history and one which we know Guelph is very proud of

5:59:31but what has been going on in our quiet neighborhood over the last couple weeks has been disturbing

5:59:40my neighbors in Orchard Creston but also nearby calendar drive and Sherwood Drive

5:59:46have become disappointed and unfortunately in many cases actually angry with the city

5:59:54I've talked with many of them and they feel that they have been betrayed

5:59:59after living and improving the neighborhood and paying taxes and contributing to the city for decades

6:00:08the city does not seem to care about their wants their needs and their concerns as they push the head

6:00:14to build more housing it's as if we're not part of the decision although we are the people most

6:00:22impacted by it and are the only stakeholder who must live with the consequences every day afterwards

6:00:31in fact we talked about consultation we live right beside this this lot we have not had anyone

6:00:39from Spruce Living contact us talk to us ask us our concerns and when it comes to signage

6:00:47there was a construction trailer parked in front of this lot for 10 days because they're doing

6:00:53construction near our lot and the sign when it was put up was put up directly behind the construction

6:00:59trailer right up at the curb and I moved it after a couple days but I found it and only then did many

6:01:06of my neighbors stop and say what is going on but despite all this almost all of our neighbors

6:01:15who I'm spoken with and knowledge the need to build housing and even agree that the lot of

6:01:2110 archer crescent could accommodate more than one family but none that I've talked to and I've

6:01:26talked to a lot supports this proposal they have legitimate concerns which you have heard this afternoon

6:01:33I should say this evening now and you have probably read in the 24 letters that you received

6:01:40they're concerned that the neighborhood they've lived in for decades will change dramatically

6:01:45they're concerned that extreme densification will turn our street into a parking lot making the

6:01:51street unwalkable and unsightly they're concerned that densification will result in the needless

6:01:57destruction of hundreds of trees trees that make our neighborhood what it is and trees that cannot

6:02:04be replaced for decades and they're concerned that the densification is allowed to proceed

6:02:11in this intense manner many more lots will be destroyed and the character of the neighborhood

6:02:15will be lost forever those concerns are real and even if the city has given itself the legal right

6:02:23to do this I believe it has a moral and an ethical obligation to use best efforts to address each of

6:02:31the concerns a moral obligation to treat its current good citizens with the utmost respect

6:02:39and a moral obligation to put the concerns of taxpayers at the same level or even about those

6:02:45about those of other stakeholders none of whom have as much skin in the game as we do

6:02:51there are three legitimate stakeholders impacted by the decision the area residents the city and the

6:02:58developer in a democracy there needs to be a balance between the interests of all three

6:03:03stakeholders I hope and believe that we as intelligent people can dig a little deeper

6:03:10and set aside our parochial interests to find a way to satisfy the needs of all three stakeholders

6:03:16to find a balance throughout my own career I found that smart people working together

6:03:24can develop good solutions most problems after listening to the concerns of many of my neighbors

6:03:30over the past couple weeks I feel there is a common intersection between what the city and the developer

6:03:36wants and what many of my neighbors would find an acceptable compromise our recommendation and this

6:03:44is just my wife's mind but I believe it is shared by many of my neighbors is the following

6:03:50remove the existing bungalow and tenor crescent and replace it with a tastefully designed duplex

6:03:56with a single basement family unit under each half of the duplex situate the duplex in the

6:04:03center of the lot allowing for maximum side yard clearance thereby maintaining most of all the tree

6:04:10cover increase the number of parking spots to at least 1.5 per family unit including basement

6:04:16units while this recommendation will not give any party 100% of what it wants it does give each

6:04:24party most of what it wants it is a compromise which is how most good successful negotiations

6:04:30typically conclude specifically this recommendation will result in the densification of tenor

6:04:39crescent from one family unit to four family units with at least with at least two being

6:04:45affordable and perhaps all four there would be no need to kill the 50 plus cedar trees along our

6:04:51property line with a beautiful mature cedar and locus trees in the front yard thus maintain the

6:04:58green natural look of the neighborhood and keeping with Gauss reputation as a green city

6:05:03it would allow space for more parking thus minimizing the number of cars that would be parked on our

6:05:08holy street which of course has no sidewalks and thereby maintain the street as a safe walking

6:05:15street for school children dog walkers and families it would demonstrate to us residents

6:05:21that our issues and our needs are just as important as those of the other stakeholders

6:05:26and that's the city listens to our concerns and in short demonstrates respect towards

6:05:32its citizens finally if done well and I believe it could be it could result in the model of how

6:05:39gentle dent of densification can work in Gauss older neighborhoods thus avoiding or at least

6:05:46minimizing future disputes between the city and its residents as well continues its initiative

6:05:53to densify older older neighborhoods there is no doubt that there will be more pushbacks like

6:05:59this or even more aggressive ones each time does the city really want to get into disputes with

6:06:06long-term tax-paying residents every time it densifies a mature lot or is the city open to

6:06:12finding a precedent setting balance that demonstrates that its housing initiative can be

6:06:18accomplished while still respecting the needs of its citizens who made the city what it is today

6:06:23I hope the city and my neighbors are open to compromise and that we can turn 10 archer Crescent

6:06:29into a showpiece of how densification can be can be accomplished with taste and dignity thank you

6:06:36for your attention thank you very much for your presentation committee members do we have any

6:06:43questions of this delegate seeing none thank you once again thank you madam setter tary treasurer

6:06:52treasurer do we have another delegate michael hoffman welcome can you state your name for the

6:07:11record please my name is michael kerr hoffman we have 10 minutes to address the committee

6:07:21thank you I had prepared a powerpoint presentation fortunately the ridgeway application has very

6:07:31emphasized much of what it was that I was going to say so I will do my best to praise it my skills

6:07:40with respect to that kind of praisey are less than wonderful but I'll do my best so if we could start

6:07:50with the second uh oh it's right up there now okay so we start with the planning act and there are

6:08:02four tests so it's a matter of is the application minor in nature and we've already touched on it

6:08:11with respect to ridgeway and that is is that because we've got three severances and a retained

6:08:17portion and we have variants associated with those we have a cumulative impact and that impact needs

6:08:26to be considered in a cumulative way and therefore is not minor if we move on then to the next

6:08:37screen it's a question of is the requested variants desirable for the appropriate development of the

6:08:44use of the land buildings or structure and this can be interpreted different ways

6:08:50uh

6:08:53part of that can be viewed by looking generally at section 9.3 in the official plan

6:09:01and there are three general objectives that I've pulled out to ensure the compatibility between

6:09:07various housing forms and between residential and non-residential uses to maintain the general

6:09:14character of the built form in established residential neighborhoods while accommodating

6:09:20compatible residential infill and intensification and to ensure new development is compatible with

6:09:27the surrounding land uses and that should say and the general character of neighborhoods

6:09:34and then the next slide of course we say does the requested variants maintain the general intent

6:09:39and purpose of the zoning bylaw it depends on how you choose to interpret that

6:09:50what happens with the zoning bylaw is that that excuse me that zoning bylaw is there to provide

6:09:59additional detail associated with the official plan in my opinion it does not trump the official plan

6:10:07it provides additional information with respect to that official plan so if we have a cumulative

6:10:15effect does that necessarily mean that the zoning bylaw has been its intent has been maintained

6:10:25the zoning bylaw provides a minimum standard the official plan gives us additional information

6:10:32that must be considered in evaluating this application so if we move on then to the next slide

6:10:46previously this particular section has been reviewed 9.3.1.1 development criteria for multi

6:10:55unit residential buildings and intensification proposals so it requests under number one building

6:11:05form scale height setbacks massing appearance siting are compatible in design character and

6:11:14orientation with buildings in the immediate vicinity so we're going for intensification but

6:11:22we have to consider what's there proposals for residential residential lot infill will be compatible

6:11:31with the general frontages of lots in the immediate vicinity the lots here are all very large the

6:11:38proposed lots are very very small relative to that if we move to the next page then we have the

6:11:48vehicular traffic generated from the proposed development will not have an unacceptable impact

6:11:53on the plan function of the adjacent roads and intersections that's already been addressed by

6:11:58others the fact is is that the geometry of calendar drive and the slope of orchard crescent as well

6:12:07as the curves therefore geometry on orchard crescent present some difficulties associated with

6:12:17seeing where cars are coming from so I put in some examples because we drive a smaller car

6:12:26which is unusual these days it's a small hatchback and so on the eighth slide if I may have that

6:12:43that's me backing out of the driveway and that's a view of what I'm looking at when I'm at the

6:12:50highest point of our driveway our driveway slopes down so the curve that you can't see is in the

6:12:59back part of that photograph so my ability to see who's coming around that corner is compromised

6:13:08if we move on to the next slide I take part in active transportation and I have what is called

6:13:17a recumbent tadpole trike that trike has a number of advantages to those of us who are of a certain

6:13:26age and as you can see it's as low to the ground and by the photograph that I've printed here

6:13:34you can see that I'm going to have some difficulties seeing individuals who are coming down the road

6:13:40from Sherwood Drive if we move back then to slide number six the question is can this particular

6:14:02application meet the requirements for vehicular access parking and circulation

6:14:09and any impacts mitigated again because of the particular curves on the street and the slope

6:14:17there are going to be some difficulties then we move down to the ninth component

6:14:23impacts on adjacent properties I guess we're not on slide six at the moment

6:14:34back in the other direction if I may please there we go impacts on adjacent properties are

6:14:40minimized in relation to grading drainage location of surface areas and microclimatic

6:14:46conditions such as wind and shadowing wind and shadowing hasn't been provided to us

6:14:52and so we have some difficulties with respect to understanding whether those will be affected

6:14:58that relates of course to a number of people's comments about trees

6:15:01we did hear that in the Ridgeway application there were some opportunities associated with

6:15:12looking at hydrogeology but what needs to be looked at here is also hydrology and also saturated

6:15:18field hydronic conductivity in the surface area because surface flow will become important

6:15:25so if we can proceed then there are a number of problems then associated with this particular

6:15:30application if we turn then to the 12th slide in conclusion the committee of adjustment is an

6:15:39unique position to evaluate the pros consents and minor variances to ensure that the requirements

6:15:44of Guelph's official plan are reached and are and the proposal is compatible

6:15:56the principal problem we have is that we haven't been presented with enough information to understand

6:16:02how and if all of the criteria included in design of the proposed multi residential housing or

6:16:09the intensification actually meet the requirements of the official plan

6:16:16our ability to approve to appeal this particular process was ended this month so we appeal to the

6:16:28committee to look at what's going to affect us very carefully because your decision is final thank

6:16:38you thank you very much and committee members do we have any questions of this delegate

6:16:45again thank you very much for your very good presentation it's very helpful thank you

6:16:52madam secretary treasurer do we have another delegation timmy kizoff duncan and she's

6:17:01phone are you available oh hello can you hear me hello we can hear you and can you state your

6:17:15name for the record please my name is timmy kizoff duncan and can you um keep your comments to 10

6:17:24minutes yes so i wanted to start by thanking the chair and the committee members for allowing me

6:17:32the opportunity to speak to this application i already submitted my letter but have since made

6:17:38additions so please bear with me as i go through the letter that i submitted and now have additions

6:17:44to my name is timmy kizoff duncan and my two children and my husband and i live at 22 orchard

6:17:51crescent we are not near where this situation is occurring at all on the street as we're actually

6:17:58the furthest house away from this property but my husband and i can see where this is going for

6:18:04our neighborhood and it's not going the right way building a triplex a four plaques or anything that

6:18:11resembles the cookie cutter townhouses and single family homes that we see in the newer developments

6:18:17in the city in our neighborhood will not only create eyesores in the midst of beautiful well

6:18:24maintained older homes it will also lead to a decrease in our property values as there will

6:18:29be these beautiful well maintained older homes that just fit perfectly into the neighborhood

6:18:36and then there will be these obviously built for financial gain thin out of place eyesores this hits

6:18:45at our collective pocket books so that a developer can make money and also so that eight families can

6:18:52take up the space of one all because of densification not only will the homes propose not fitting with

6:19:00the style of our neighborhood there's just no way it will bring many more people and many more cars

6:19:08to these proposed tiny little locks we will have cars lined up and down our peaceful street our

6:19:16children will have to be extra vigilant when playing outside with all of the additional

6:19:21traffic this will cause our street which is a tertiary route during the winter and isn't cleared

6:19:28very well or often already will have even more problems during snowfalls as cars will be in

6:19:34the way when clouds come through sure they might get ticketed but those areas will still not get

6:19:39plowed it will be a mess you'll take a peaceful street and you'll destroy it with the many months

6:19:47maybe even years of construction that will be necessary to tear down one home and to build up

6:19:53up to four more and all in the name of densification and profit as someone said earlier today this is

6:20:02a corporation not a neighbor there may not be a distinction in where densification occurs as said

6:20:12earlier but there should be just as a previous speaker said this is all very new the densification

6:20:19of Guel it was also spoken about about gentle intensification this is not gentle when you

6:20:28take one house and then build four city council wants more but does that mean build four why not two

6:20:37as a couple of my neighbors have suggested before me why not make it try to fit better

6:20:43into the existing neighborhood to gently intensify instead of looking for the biggest thing

6:20:50another speaker mentioned non-conformity on the melbourne at ridgeway project this is the

6:20:58same for orchard and we also don't have sidewalks as others have mentioned uh perhaps you're not

6:21:06aware but i've been told that we have several homes in our surrounding neighborhood that were

6:21:10designed by a famous wealth architect and it's obvious those homes are not like any other homes

6:21:16and they make our neighborhood what it is can you imagine dropping some cookie cutter 2024 style

6:21:21homes in among those beautiful one-of-a-kind masterpieces i can't i also can't imagine losing the

6:21:28large mature trees that front the property or the cedars that have been mentioned or number 12's

6:21:34old blue spruce my parents live in a very old neighborhood in scarborough i took pictures of

6:21:41their neighborhood i wanted to show everybody but i'm i'm not able to because i wasn't signed up to

6:21:46share my screen so they live right off lords avenue east near victoria park and you can't find huge

6:21:53lots like those anymore and people and developers know this and they are buying up the 75 year old

6:21:59homes often bungalows like we have here on orchard and those huge lots on those huge lots and

6:22:05they're tearing them down and building gigantic homes that take up the majority of the width of

6:22:11the property just like it is proposed for these houses at 10 orchard crescent the old homes that

6:22:19are left which are also well maintained like in our neighborhood because the people who live in that

6:22:24neighborhood also take pride in their homes like we do are dwarfed by these new houses it's like these

6:22:301940s and early 1950s homes have been invaded by aliens it's not a pretty picture and it doesn't

6:22:37make the neighborhood look better it makes the neighborhood look completely mismatched towering

6:22:43external stucco hot light beige and black modern homes beside point beautifully landscaped blooming

6:22:50gardens red brick bungalows they just don't fit together and this proposal will also not fit

6:22:57there are other areas of the city where densification makes sense there are other areas of the city

6:23:02we're changing the look at the entire neighborhood won't affect it like this will affect us do you

6:23:07imagine doing this to the neighborhood at delhi and aramosa on um ard made crescent those beautiful

6:23:15old homes in the neighborhood that works because the houses work together our neighborhood is also

6:23:21not the right neighborhood for this type of undertaking something to add that i would like to add

6:23:28after being pleasant all afternoon for the last almost six hours and hearing other people's concerns

6:23:35today and the many other requests for minor variances that were presented well they were just that

6:23:44minor but one of the variants that's being asked for is losing i believe an i'm an english teacher

6:23:51not a math teacher so bear with me losing 1.8 meters on um each of the garages contrary to the

6:23:59approved 2023 zoning bylaw is more than minor it just goes to show how the developer is more

6:24:06interested in money than in our neighborhood an earlier developer applicant who dispessed a town

6:24:13house complex stated that they had taken the number of units down from 10 to 8 that actually

6:24:20surprised me that they had that consideration to bring it down in number and not try to pack in more

6:24:27but this developer for 10 or two present increased the number of units from a triflex to four units

6:24:35in our neighborhood people don't move in and out very often they move in and they stay they say

6:24:42we've been here for 5.5 years so we've seen how things go for the last little while there isn't

6:24:49frequent turnover our house was built in 1976 i know there are a couple of families who inherited

6:24:55their properties from parents who were original owners i know Bernadette and her husband are at

6:25:03least one of them i'd like to invite you to come physically to see our property as many other people

6:25:11did and i am happy to hear that you have done that as stated by the chair so thank you for that

6:25:18so you saw how peaceful and pleasant it is and maybe you got to picture how that piece will be

6:25:24destroyed and that community and that neighborhood will never be the same if four houses are built

6:25:31on that lot i also ask that we have an opportunity to discuss this application as neighbors to this

6:25:39possible build with the developer and that the committee gives us the time to do that

6:25:46thank you very much for allowing me the time and opportunity to speak to this application

6:25:53thank you very much for your comments and your presentation if you want to stand by a moment

6:26:00my colleagues may have some questions for you committee members do have any questions of this

6:26:04delegate seeing none thank you very much and i believe you're if not the last one of the last

6:26:12so thank you very much for your patience madame secretary treasurer do we have any other delegations

6:26:20we do have some additional delegations um ted malik welcome can you state your name for the

6:26:40record please ted malik you have 10 minutes to address the committee on this well i've been here

6:26:46for six hours if i haven't noticed that i am dumber than i believe i am i i i have a script i have to

6:26:54follow i have a boss who keeps me honest i have to say this but welcome and please take as much time

6:27:01as you like okay well i definitely have 10 minutes anyway this has been very educational for me

6:27:11uh a couple of things have become very clear this developer is shooting in the dark he finds

6:27:23wherever he thinks he might be able to pull this abhorrent uh idea of building these uh

6:27:31horrendous uh uh developer buildings and the other thing that i have noticed as well

6:27:40is that the whole system seems to be slated in favor of the developer he makes an application

6:27:50and the city planners appear to bend backwards to try to accommodate him in whichever way they can

6:28:02by simply putting in conditions anyway when i started looking at this situation

6:28:09i noticed that the following things are to be taken into consideration and uh the committee of

6:28:16adjustment uh has my great respect if they have mastered all of the following the official plan

6:28:27the bylaw the green uh the greater plan for the greater golden horseshoe the pps which i didn't

6:28:37know what it stood for is the provincial policy statement which supposedly the council has to

6:28:47to be consistent with the planning act the committee of adjustment application

6:28:54some some items under appeal and the staff comments so i have a couple of observations

6:29:04that haven't been uh that haven't been addressed by anyone else but when i took a little time

6:29:11to look at this pps 20 it is heavy on social factors social well-being minimize social impacts

6:29:31and the preamble says the whole idea is to enhance the quality of life for all Ontarians

6:29:40and i submit that would include uh orchard crescent my next point is this all of these

6:29:54legislations do not provide for what this developer is attempting to do what this

6:30:04application says that it proposes to create three new lots but in fact actually four but in fact

6:30:14it's a proposal to smash the perfectly good existing structure my question is does any of the

6:30:25applicable uh laws and regulations suggest allow or permit such destruction that structure

6:30:39must easily be worth over half a million dollars if if that property burned today and and it was

6:30:49insured i am sure that it would cost more than half a million dollars to rebuild so obviously

6:31:02what the developer is seeing here is what the heck

6:31:08half a million or three quarters of a million i am going to make more and and that's the whole

6:31:14purpose of this application is to make money and the hell with everybody else

6:31:21now another item that i noticed is is this item of minor uh the applicant asks for minor variations

6:31:35now minor is defined as something less in importance size for instance than something else

6:31:44i just picked one item that was the garage width it sort of caught my attention and what the developer

6:31:52is asking to vary is from 3.8 to 3.2 uh i believe that's the width of the garage now to me if my

6:32:05mathematics still work is it's about 20 percent now if you were buying a car for $10,000 and the

6:32:14dealer said oh by the way there'll be a 20 percent surcharge would you consider that minor on the other

6:32:21hand if the dealer said gonna give you 20 percent off would that be minor i suggest not now another

6:32:32thing that caught my attention was this item of trees uh i wasn't quite aware of what everybody

6:32:38else has said although i of course endorse fully what has been said but every other speaker now

6:32:47the city or the the city staff finds in its findings that uh there should be appointed an

6:33:00arborist i didn't even know such a such a person existed but they find that it is necessary for a

6:33:09specialist to look into the item of trees but nowhere could i find that it is required to apply

6:33:18to appoint some professional to look into the people on the street they don't seem to matter

6:33:29so i i just sketched the questions here is it fair that one entity and calls itself uh 10 or

6:33:48chart crescent ink i think uh and by definition has no feelings being a corporation should this

6:33:58entity be rewarded and the whole neighborhood hurt does that appeal to you guys a sense of

6:34:09fairness and if this application is granted who benefits only the developer none of the residents

6:34:20on the street benefit in any way whatsoever and what happens to the unique character of this

6:34:28neighborhood i presume that uh you are required and you have actually attended and visited the

6:34:37the orchard crescent area now returning to the to the original thing about

6:34:50about the provisions of the of the pps is the well-being of that

6:34:58uh of that neighborhood maintained are there any of the residents or neighbors

6:35:09in favor of this thing now looking at the committee of adjustment application form

6:35:16that i downloaded it says on the on the subject on the the heading of minor variances it says here

6:35:26uh this is what you guys are supposed to to address is the proposed variance minor in nature

6:35:39i already addressed that i i don't see it as a minor one i don't think that anybody else does

6:35:47is the proposed variation desirable for the appropriate development of the lands in question

6:35:55well these lands have already been developed they are developed their houses are there 14 of them

6:36:06and people are happily living there another little item here and under the heading of consent are there

6:36:20enough water and wastewater services my daughter Bernadette mclenahan from whom you spoke she tells

6:36:28me that there is no way that two people can take a shower at the same time at 12 orchard crescent

6:36:37see i sort of running out of time not quite as well organized as i hope to be but uh well once again

6:36:59all i can say is i support everything else that had been said and i hope that it's obvious to you

6:37:06that uh if you grant this application you will be hurting a great many people

6:37:16thank you we appreciate uh your considered remarks and if you want to wait one moment

6:37:24my colleagues may have questions committee members thank you again very much

6:37:33madam secretary treasurer do we have any other registered delegates

6:37:40the last registered delegate is nancy rebelato and she's appearing via video

6:37:46can you hear us well we hear me now uh and we can hear you can you state your name for the record

6:38:02please nancy rebelato welcome you have 10 minutes to address the committee

6:38:08uh thank you mr chair and committee members

6:38:16first of all i'd like to say start by saying our neighborhood is one of the most beautiful

6:38:22neighborhoods in olive gulf and it's beautiful due to the unique classy high quality architecture

6:38:30and um and building materials built with pride by european skill

6:38:39my husband designed many of the buildings and we live in one of them in the neighborhood so we

6:38:45live at 67 walnut drive my home is my primary asset which derives its value from its beautiful

6:38:54design its high quality building materials and its colors my home also derives its value

6:39:01from the quality surrounding homes in the neighborhood along with the mature trees and many

6:39:09many of the homes have been built by the neighbors themselves

6:39:14so we take a lot of pride in our homes in our yards in our neighborhood

6:39:20uh therefore we have a great deal of pride in taking care and taking care of things

6:39:30i am concerned that a developer who is a corporation will not have the same vested

6:39:35interest in the beauty and quality of the building which would affect the quality and

6:39:40aesthetics of the neighborhood and and effect the val and it would affect the value of my home

6:39:46and all of our homes in fact my question is will uh will we the neighbors have a say in the design

6:39:54and the quality of the building um if done properly i do believe that we can intensify and that a

6:40:05building with a two say a duplex would be an asset to the neighborhood by providing high quality

6:40:14rentals or condo for people who perhaps currently live in the neighborhood and would like to downsize

6:40:21to remain in the neighborhood um so that would be an asset to our neighborhood but my question is

6:40:29how can we be assured that the quality and type of architecture will be in keeping with the rest

6:40:35of the homes in our neighborhood um and i do agree with all the things that have been mentioned

6:40:40with regard to the trees uh these trees are mature and that is a big selling point for this

6:40:45neighborhood the water runoff is a major concern uh the water runoff is also an issue because

6:40:53one of the houses that my house my husband designed is on calendar um and also i would

6:41:00like to say that my husband worked two full-time jobs his whole life and contributed a great deal

6:41:06to this community um as have many of our neighbors um we have neighbors who've contributed millions of

6:41:14dollars to our hospitals to uh to our university so this is a very special neighborhood and people

6:41:23work extremely hard not only for their own home and their yard and their neighbors but also for

6:41:31our community so whatever is done in that lot needs to be in keeping with the rest of of the

6:41:40neighborhood i feel it's very important um to see a building that's say black and orange or

6:41:48orange and yellow um or that has a lot of cars has driveways and um the first thing you see is a

6:41:56garage you know this is not in keeping with our neighborhood i do agree with intensification and

6:42:04there are proper ways of doing it but what is presented doesn't seem like it's the right thing

6:42:09at all so there are ways of doing it properly and my husband was hoping to make a presentation

6:42:16however the amount of time given to us was not sufficient for him to be able to do that um

6:42:24in closing i would just like to say thank you for giving me the time to present this information

6:42:30i do support everything that has been said already and i do believe that there are opportunities

6:42:37but we need to take the time not rush things and have a vision that is in keeping with the rest of

6:42:45the neighborhood so that we keep the quality we keep uh we keep uh with the the vision that

6:42:53currently exists so thank you very much for your time thank you very much for your presentation

6:43:01and if you want to um stand by for a moment my colleagues may have some questions committee

6:43:07members do we have any questions of this delegate seeing none thank you very much again for your

6:43:14presentation it's very helpful in our deliberations thank you thank you madam secretary treasurer do we

6:43:22have any other delegates chair smith we don't have any other registered delegates unless there's others

6:43:29in the audience thank you so i will turn to um those in the audience is there anyone who'd like

6:43:36to come forward yes please come on forward to the microphone can you take state your name for the

6:43:52record please my name is scott for nests i live at 76 calendar drive and i want to thank chair and

6:44:00you have 10 minutes to address the committee my name is scott for nests i live i'm privileged to live

6:44:07at this moment at 76 calendar drive i live just below warm when i say just live below them it's

6:44:14because we don't live on a hill we live on a terraced hill and what does that mean it means it's a hill

6:44:21plateaus out hill and plateaus out warring was talking about erosion was talking about the trees

6:44:27going when the trees go the erosion rate is going to increase and i know that because in the september

6:44:35of 2020 myself and four other people planted 169 years just small ones boxwoods pear trees

6:44:46something else i can't remember just on the front property and if you want to know where i live on

6:44:52the guy that has the artificial grass when we dug there was three and a half feet of roots

6:45:03and what i realized below our grass in this entire area are three things there's aggregate a lot of

6:45:10it teeny tiny bit of soil and roots you kill the trees you kill the roots and though i'm not an

6:45:20engineer i figure in 12 to 15 years you're going to have an aggressive erosion that you're not expecting

6:45:27i also don't know what the water runoff is going to be as well i'd like to disagree with warren

6:45:36he's looking for a compromise and at this point in time i think you're getting to understand that

6:45:42this is a pretty special place first time i was on calendar was a year after i came to school in

6:45:551984 and i used to go down that street because i had an affinity towards those very special homes

6:46:02they're mid-century modern homes and interesting enough i graduated from the university of guelph

6:46:08and hotel and food and the dean of that program lived in one of those homes

6:46:16i ended up buying a window cleaning business in 1993 and when i bought it i hated you and i hated

6:46:21me and i hated everybody and all i did for that window cleaning business was break more glass than

6:46:25clean but 76 calendar drive was on the client list so i had the privilege of being hired by

6:46:32christine and working for michael christine and michael lived in that house together for 16 years

6:46:42when christine passed away in the bedroom from lupus palliative care michael was heartbroken

6:46:49for the next 16 years when he developed a pulmonary embolism at the age of 83 he decided to sell the

6:47:00home and i got a phone call in august of 2018 at the time i had just refused rate of refusal on a

6:47:08house on forest avenue and he called me up and i was surprised because i hadn't heard from him

6:47:13in about 10 years and he told me his illness and he said to me i remember my son reminded me

6:47:22that you like the house and that maybe now that i'm going to sell you would like to buy it from me

6:47:30well i remember saying that and when i said it i just want to give you a picture beside the kitchen

6:47:37door there was a cork board and on that cork board was the euro champions 1993 manchester united

6:47:47and when i cleaned windows in that kitchen the spice girls were playing so we're talking back

6:47:52in 1993 as well that son that reminded michael he was 10 years old at the time 25 years later he

6:48:00remembered me and he passed that message on to michael and michael called me and for some reason

6:48:05i was able to afford it at the time i was able to afford it because for 31 years not only am a

6:48:13window cleaner but i'm a residential and i'm a multi residential contract sprayer which means that

6:48:20i have been inside and outside if not every multi residential unit in guelph most of them

6:48:31and i would like to say that from the older units up until present i think wealth has done an

6:48:40exemplary job at facilitating the construction of multi residential because the fit has always

6:48:49worked the other thing that i think that's really encouraged the blending of multi residential is

6:48:58that we've talked about it a lot and that is trees old souls they define the property i went back

6:49:09to my old neighborhood last week in itobicoke 56 kilometers away when i went down the street there

6:49:14used to be lindens full grown on either side and they were gone the street was barren and my beautiful

6:49:22little bungalow that i love growing up with the magnolia in the front and for sithi along the side

6:49:29and the evergreens in the front it was gone it was all gone just like the lindens and i looked at my

6:49:35house that i thought was very beautiful as a child and it's uh it's a box it looked like a box

6:49:42because i realized then and there that it's just not the buildings what's around it and i take

6:49:56beauty as subjective and i guess the only thing i was offended about was the way you said it you

6:50:01said it in a very indifferent manner i'm sorry could you address the microphone so we can hear you

6:50:06i apologize um i would just personally like to note that i was just personally offended

6:50:14by the manner in which mr houston said beauty was subjective i personally believe it's the

6:50:19highest form of our of our condition of our human condition and when i purchased 76 calendar i walked

6:50:27in and i cried because i can't believe i was in the home that i used to go down the street and look

6:50:33at i have a ranch style mid-century modern home and i can't believe i live there but i also have

6:50:41a confession to make right now for 31 years i've worked hard and the economy has taken its toll

6:50:49and i've run out of money my partner doesn't know this because she tried to help but she's on a fixed

6:50:56income so i have to tell everybody including my partner right now for the very first time

6:51:02and i apologize patria because this is really rude because i'm not telling you in confidence

6:51:06because you'd never do this but i have to sell i have to sell my home and i feel bad because now

6:51:14i'm dreading me because if this goes through they're going to take that home that my soul is in

6:51:20my soul's in that home with christine and i don't have a pension i don't have anything but the home

6:51:29and it'll be gone and i guess i'll be talking to you mr builder because i need money and if this

6:51:36goes through then are you going to destroy that beautiful home i'm sorry i'm sorry to my neighbors

6:51:49i wanted to die in my home i was happy all i wanted to do was clean windows and paint

6:51:56and live there till the day i die i wanted to be pulled out like christine was

6:52:04i want to thank you very much for your time i would just like to say that uh committee members

6:52:10and chair you are wonderful people for putting up with such long arduous meetings and i want to thank

6:52:20you very much for your time i want to thank my neighborhood for making me feel so warm and

6:52:25comfortable even though i hardly know any of you you're wonderful people and i thank you for your time

6:52:34thank you very much your your presentation has moved us all um committee members do we have

6:52:41any questions of this delegate seeing none again thank you very much for sharing your thoughts

6:52:51is there anyone else in the auditorium who'd like to speak yes please come forward to the microphone

6:53:12good evening and welcome can you state your name for the record please it's on shan gao um thank you

6:53:19for allowing us to speak to you tonight thanks for staying late thanks to staff for staying late

6:53:25and security guard who's trying to you're welcome and as you've probably heard me say more than once

6:53:30you have 10 minutes to address the committee thank you first of all i'd like to apologize i was one

6:53:35of the people clapping very early on i didn't realize the protocol so my apologies to the chair

6:53:40and to the committee in general um uh my family has lived at 72 calendar drive for over 50 years my

6:53:49wife grew up in the house uh we actually live next door to the gentleman who just spoke scott ferness

6:53:55um uh i want to say that i agree with with everything my wife and i agree with everything that the

6:54:02previous delegations have uh said i think you've spoke or heard from 11 people uh before myself

6:54:11our concerns were detailed in our letter uh safety uh infrastructure and the environment

6:54:18all of those have been addressed uh with respect to this property uh safety is i i just want to

6:54:25put some emphasis again on them and i know you can go back and read the letter if you

6:54:29had the opportunity to read it that's great um seniors live in the area just look around you a

6:54:34lot of gray hair uh you know it's i got it in the beard um but there's other people who are the same

6:54:40age uh we you know we walk up and down those hills um it's our own blue zone if you're familiar with

6:54:46that uh children are in the neighborhood as well because there are there's no sidewalks on on orchard

6:54:53our house uh since everyone's been there then you just imagine you're standing in front of

6:54:59of the property that's being discussed and you're looking down the hill so you're looking down

6:55:04orchard towards calendar our house is the bungalow at the bottom the yellow bungalow with all the uh

6:55:12the pollinator gardens um safety uh from the standpoint of traffic uh in the winter time

6:55:21and i mentioned it in our letter uh cars get stuck uh they get stuck at our curb but they didn't

6:55:27start near the curb they started up the hill and they slide and some of them booted and i suspect

6:55:33when they hit the curb the first thought is better call meiko uh because they've done some damage to

6:55:39the front ends um more vehicles in the neighborhood it's there's just going to be more of that that

6:55:45type of thing uh and the risk that anyone who's out walking with their dogs um yeah

6:55:51you know god forbid might might get dinged uh infrastructure storm water management i want

6:55:57to come circle back to that with with some visual images for you to uh to uh considering your minds

6:56:04and then the tree canopy uh if you saw our house there's lots of trees around our house but the

6:56:09neighborhood generally has trees and there's certainly trees on the subject property and again

6:56:13emphasizing what other people have said um uh one thought that was also mentioned in our letter

6:56:20was sort of a lack of transparency uh things kind of happened with very short notice and

6:56:26i was actually shocked that someone would plant the uh the iron bars dividing up the property

6:56:34a week no eight days before this meeting and your decision uh and a day before we were even

6:56:41had to have our our comments and it was it was a surprise uh and i did check the iron bars are in

6:56:48the ground um storm water so let me circle back to the storm water again live at the bottom of

6:56:53calendar hill water runs downhill physics hasn't changed uh if this development happens uh i

6:57:02suspect there's going to be a lot more concrete less water being absorbed by the ground if the

6:57:07trees are cut down uh as scott mentioned and some other people mentioned that's going to cause a

6:57:12problem with regards to water as well now what season is that a concern of it's a concede concern

6:57:20every season uh there are storm um grades uh between our house at 72 and 68 which is uh if you recall

6:57:31looking around the neighborhood there's a walkway that goes down to walnut uh the snowplows tend to

6:57:36put the snow there so one of the jobs that i have and and the fellow at the 68 is we make sure that

6:57:42those storm uh sewers are are kept somewhat clear but on occasion we have to phone the city and we

6:57:49send them pictures and saying i think you need to send someone out to take care of this uh because

6:57:53the risk is flooding now we've never had a flood at our house but the neighborhood 68 has and two

6:58:00neighbors before them uh who lived or two owners before them also had the same problem so storm

6:58:06water management on orchard and calendar drive is not theoretical it is it is a fact um and it's

6:58:15i guess it's kind of like those once in a hundred year storms except it seems to have happened at

6:58:20least twice in 50 years uh in your mind's eye uh if you can picture yourself looking up the hill

6:58:32so on the sidewalk and calendar looking up in the hill in a rainstorm and in front of our house

6:58:40there is a manhole storm water management manhole and it's really cool if you're a kid

6:58:47to see water geysering out of the two holes for the manhole and i was looking at i was thinking

6:58:53hey that's really cool i wonder if it would lift the manhole but as an adult i'm looking at and going

6:58:59uh oh that's that's a potential problem now i've only seen it twice i've lived at the house for 25

6:59:05years i'm not always looking out the window for it but again if water isn't managed properly

6:59:12for this particular property it's just going to add to a potential problem potentially for myself

6:59:19potentially for my neighbor at 68 who's not here tonight um i have seen down the manhole

6:59:26when the fellas come along because i retired i'm one of the i'm one of the neighborhood guys who

6:59:30goes out and chats with them say hey what are you up to uh can i look down the hall um it's all brick

6:59:37it's not it's not those big cement uh cement round culverts that we would typically see

6:59:44it was built in the late 50s it's it's all masonry and and brick um they actually had to repair it a

6:59:51couple of years ago when i pointed out that it was corroding or dissolving i guess the the ash

6:59:58fault was coming apart and that's when i got to get out and have a look and chat with the

7:00:02city guys from the city um help them supervise the fellow who was actually doing the work uh the only

7:00:15other image i want to leave you with is the neighbor next door cleaning up his basement because the

7:00:20water has backed up uh because of a spring runoff um sewers weren't able to storm sewer wasn't able

7:00:27to handle it the water went down his driveway into the garage and there's stairs in the back

7:00:33went down to the back and flooded his basement um i'm not sure what his first thought was but my

7:00:40first thought was who does my insurance company gonna sue for this um it's something that you know

7:00:46that people have to consider uh so uh let me just conclude there um again uh i thank you for allowing

7:00:54us to uh to speak um it's not something that i normally do this is the first time i've experienced

7:00:59this process uh and i appreciate again you staying here uh as late as you have uh and giving consideration

7:01:07to the neighborhood's concerns uh because it it is a neighborhood uh it has character and we don't

7:01:13don't really want to lose it um your decision whether it's to defer or to deny i'm indifferent uh

7:01:20but i think something needs to change with regards to this proposal uh and something that's more

7:01:25in keeping with the neighborhood um neighbors usually talk to each other uh we never heard a word

7:01:33from the new owner uh i'm not sure i can say they're a neighbor yet anyways thank you thank you very

7:01:42much for your considered comments and committee members do we have any questions seeing none

7:01:49thank you again for your presentation thank you um i'm going to ask again if there's anyone else

7:01:57in the audience yes please come forward um before i um let you speak um we're going to um

7:02:18we're rapidly approaching 11 o'clock which is our um our witching hour we are um

7:02:25um uh obliged to end the meeting at 11 o'clock unless we have a motion to extend and um i would

7:02:33like to ask my colleagues if a they're willing to extend and for how long and um so i'll ask i'd

7:02:44like a motion to that effect perhaps for um taking us to um 11 30 if necessary yeah i'm happy to move

7:02:59that we uh extend to 11 30 and do i have a seconder member sayers um we have a motion uh i understand

7:03:10that member ballaban cannot stay past 11 o'clock that's a hard stop for you okay um if that's the

7:03:17case we still have quorum so um hopefully we'll be able to get your questions and comments in prior

7:03:25to that i'm actually hoping that we can wrap this up by 11 so i'll now ask for a vote if we can

7:03:33stay past 11 o'clock till 11 30 all those in favor that's carried thank you i appreciate

7:03:42you waiting in your turn and state your name for the record and you have 10 minutes to address the

7:03:49committee my name is evan slupka um i grew up on 14 orchard crescent which is two doors to the right

7:03:55of 10 orchard crescent i was not planning on speaking tonight um but i wanted to share my

7:03:59thoughts after hearing about the proposed buildings by spruce living um that are extremely concerning

7:04:04to me um so these are just some notes that i've simply written down tonight while attending

7:04:09my parents live at 14 orchard and unfortunately they could not make it tonight as peter had stated

7:04:14earlier um they would have liked to be here but they were not afforded enough notice uh they did

7:04:20submit a letter against this proposal um so my grandfather um built houses for a living when he

7:04:26was young and he purchased a lot on 14 orchard crescent when he'd married my grandmother and

7:04:30they built their home on this lot in 1957 my father was born in this house as you can see my family

7:04:37has a rich history on the street i would love for myself or my brother to purchase this house for my

7:04:42parents in the future for our own families sorry that's fine take your time to compose yourself

7:05:02as a young third generation guile fight um i understand the need for housing because none of

7:05:07my friends can afford to buy housing guile with that being said me my brother and my parents are all

7:05:14against this proposal um as it will explode the population on orchard crescent and does not fit

7:05:20on the street this reminds me of the previous ridgeway case um so i'd ask that you please consider

7:05:27the following um the frontage in comparison to current houses um the housing on this street

7:05:32is set very far back um our steep hill and the storm water draining uh as you have heard before

7:05:40spring living did not ask the community for input and is proposing large semi-detached houses that

7:05:45are completely different from the houses currently on orchard crescent and in the neighborhood um so

7:05:50i just have to say i agree with the previous delegations and um know that this proposal would

7:05:54be a long-term mistake and i would regret if i did not speak tonight thanks thank you very much and

7:06:01if you want to wait just one second um i'll ask my colleagues if they have any questions for you

7:06:10seeing none thank you for your sincerity and i know that speaking in public is not easy

7:06:16so thank you for doing that we do appreciate it is there anyone else in the gallery that would

7:06:23like to speak to this application do we have anyone else in the gallery who'd like to speak to this

7:06:32yes please come forward hello can you speak state your name for the record please evening

7:06:50run and you are clean and you have 10 minutes to speak to the committee thanks so hello everyone

7:07:02my name is andrew arcley i am a co-founder and principal of spruce living

7:07:06i've lived in guelph for 20 years andrew can i just stop you there for a moment um

7:07:12if we have done the delegations once we have completed the delegations um the proponent and

7:07:20as you're part of spruce i believe you'd be part of the the the the proponent will have an opportunity

7:07:28to answer any and all questions so i'm not sure if um if you want to take advantage of the 10

7:07:37minutes you're perfectly allowed to do that however if you would like to be part of the

7:07:44delegation that returns i'm leaving that up to you i can speak now i'll leave the rest to

7:07:49mr. abuseman if that's okay please go ahead so like i said sorry um my name is andrew arcley

7:07:55i am co-founder and principal of spruce living i've lived in guelph for 20 years and i'm raising

7:08:00three young children in this community we're proposing developments that have been unanimously

7:08:05approved by city counselors has city staff support will provide more homes for more people in one of

7:08:12the most expensive cities in canada special care has gone into these developments that include

7:08:18meeting storm water criteria all of our all of our sites meet the dem manual which should alleviate

7:08:23a lot of the concerns here tonight regarding storm water management we meet the tree bylaw

7:08:27requirements we're providing the required parking and most importantly provide rental housing in a

7:08:33community that sorely needs it all of this has been in conjunction with meeting almost all city

7:08:38counselors city staff and several community members to discuss our intentions and plans to help

7:08:43provide housing as jeff buzeman mentioned there is an eight plaques on queen street next to a 15

7:08:50million dollar mansion owned by one of the richest families in canada my house on durham street is

7:08:55less than a block from several multi-unit complexes with six eight and ten units diversity in build

7:09:01form fits it always has to argue that intensification in an area of low density will automatically ruin

7:09:09the fabric of a neighborhood is categorically false we are not shooting in the dark we are

7:09:14submitting these development applications in good faith with respect for the community neighborhood

7:09:18in process our most recently completed project on forestry is in one of the most prestigious

7:09:23neighborhoods in guelph and is providing nine rental units three of which are 100 wheelchair

7:09:29accessible i would ask everyone here today to drive by to review our design attention to detail

7:09:34and finish quality again we are through we are once we are through this current appeal going

7:09:40through this process is a formality one of the delegates today called a proposal egregious the

7:09:47same delegate felt necessary to call me and my partner douchebags on the way to the microphone

7:09:52if following the unanimously approved 2023 bylaws including the approval by both ward

7:09:58counselors for orchard crescent providing affordable and wheelchair accessible housing

7:10:02classifies us as egregious douchebags i worry for the future of my community and for the

7:10:07affordability of housing for my children thanks thank you do you want to wait right there

7:10:15committee members do we have any questions of this delegate seeing none thank you very much thanks

7:10:26are there any other members of the public who wish to speak to this application are there any

7:10:35other i see one more please come forward to the microphone given the late hour i'm just going

7:10:51to remind this delegate that please refrain refrain from repeating points that have already

7:10:59been raised so if you state your name for the record please my name is michael mclenahan

7:11:05thank you and you have 10 minutes i've lived at 12 orchard crescent for almost 25 years

7:11:12is where i hope to live for my entire life and i just would like to go on record to say that

7:11:19i agree with what my neighbors have said here and that i feel that this is a big concern for our

7:11:26neighborhood thank you thank you very much just a moment any questions seeing none thank you very

7:11:34much for your coming forward and are there any other members of the public in the gallery who

7:11:41would like to speak to this application are there any other members of the pub yes please come forward

7:12:05can you state your name for the record please my name is douglas anus and you have 10 minutes

7:12:10to address the committee thank you for allowing me to speak and thank you the rest of the group

7:12:19my only sort of thought is the developer spruce living makes it sound like this is a wonderful

7:12:28project like all the others he's done however he still fails to say why he hasn't taken the time

7:12:36to consult with the residents of the street orchard it is a lovely street but all the more

7:12:43important the street like ours there should have been consultation with the developer regardless to

7:12:49see if we could sort of work out something that worked for the street perhaps for the developer

7:12:55as well so it would fit in look good and we'd all feel good about it i just can't believe that a

7:13:02developer in today's world today's you know the way we are that he can't take the time to sit down

7:13:11with the residents and come to something that would work for everybody it's just impossible for me

7:13:17to believe it i mean this should be deferred or just sort of cancelled i just feel that it's very

7:13:26important that i make that statement so i hope you make the right decision tonight that would

7:13:33perhaps you know make us all feel a lot better about this thank you thank you just a moment uh

7:13:39committee members any questions no thank you again for your thoughts is there any one else in the

7:13:47gallery that we haven't heard from who would like to speak to this application is there anyone else

7:13:54in the gallery who would like to speak to this application seeing none um i'm going to invite

7:14:03mr. buesman back to the podium to speak to answer and answer some of the questions that

7:14:10were have been raised thank you for your patience mr. buesman thank you chair and thank you committee

7:14:22uh it's been a long night i'm going to keep it simple uh are short uh the law of the concerns

7:14:29about the stormwater management are being addressed through the stormwater management plan as we

7:14:36i think most people know but that type of plan is to make sure that the pre and post development

7:14:41flows are the same that means the amount of water leaving the site will be the same after

7:14:47construction as before uh so that's that will that addresses that one thing i'd like to mention is

7:14:59the percentage coverage that we're talking about for every property is 35 for the house footprint

7:15:05that's actually not that large when i look at some of the many of the urban developments in

7:15:10guelph it's much higher um the parking is easily met the parking we're meeting the city requirements

7:15:19for parking and and as we know parking is always a controversial issue and a tough issue and city

7:15:25council has struggled with it but we're in accordance with the bylaw that they've deemed

7:15:29is to be appropriate just want to really make clear i think it's clear that the minor variances is

7:15:36really not the issue minor variances are are very very technical in nature if we had our zoning

7:15:42bylaw in place we wouldn't be asking for any of these things we're just asking can we follow the

7:15:47rules that council has adopted that's what we're asking for with those minor variances it's it's

7:15:54almost like we don't have these minor variances we've got holes in the rules so we're actually

7:15:58i think we're being upfront to say just technically speaking these are needed the other thing i'd

7:16:07just highlight again is city staff support for this development and and the idea that we can

7:16:14have different housing development housing look and these and these lots you know i thought about it

7:16:20we could you know the the desires to put semi-detached ones so we can have more units but

7:16:26you know this could easily have been two large single family detached dwellings which could have

7:16:32this footprint or bigger because the zoning allows for this these lots are big 10 minute 10 meter rear

7:16:38yard side rear yards 14 meter front yards are giant could been sick could be six in the front

7:16:46seven and a half in the back that'd be giant and that but that's not what's being considered here

7:16:52these lots are quite this lot is quite large and can suit what's being proposed it all fits the owning

7:17:00and uh city staff support it and we ask for your support thank you um committee members

7:17:09ma'am burr ballah been i'd like you to go first thank you through the chair to the uh applicant

7:17:19are these uh proposed to be similar interior as the ones on ridgeway with the multiple bedrooms and

7:17:27the there there hasn't been full plans made out for it they could be multi-unit dwellings just like

7:17:34what's allowed so like five first no i'm i mean they could have two units they could have an adu

7:17:41like three three units and then the bedrooms bedrooms like three units in it in each one

7:17:48that what i'm saying is that the plans have been flushed out on this these can be like have adus

7:17:55in the basement right like they can have and then actually they could be split into three if you wanted

7:18:01to that's what that's what the laws the rules are that no decisions have been made on

7:18:08can i ask another question through you to the planning so three units in each of these semis

7:18:15is permitted as of right right now so they could he could have nine or eight units whatever it is

7:18:2612 units through the chair that is correct they would have to comply obviously with all

7:18:32the parking regulations and setbacks etc which he could do correct so he could have 12 units

7:18:38just like the one on ridgeway in these four in these four units that's correct yes okay thank you

7:18:52committee members any other questions member spears through you mr. chair to the applicant

7:18:59there's a lot of discussion about trees and the uh the future of the trees on the property can you

7:19:05shed any light on that i know the arborist report has been work being worked on i took a look at what

7:19:11is his preliminary report at the moment the uh he expects most of the trees to be finds the

7:19:18hedges the the cedar tree rows on the sides uh will have a a bit of short like um we'll have to be

7:19:28cut back a little bit the trees in the front we'll have to go uh in particular there's three trees in

7:19:34the front and i was hoping the one on the right could stay but i don't think it can stay because of

7:19:39the driveways okay okay but the tree the arborist report is being done right now um just to i have

7:19:48a couple more questions then i i'm really uh i have a concern about the grading on the facing the

7:19:54property on the left hand side if i'm reading the sketch correctly it's 1.2 meters from the building

7:19:59to the property line and if we're talking about an eight-foot drop to the next property what what

7:20:07what technique will be used to to manage that that drop i i'm i don't have the engineering plans with

7:20:16me i haven't been involved in them so i don't know the answer to that question i know that's being

7:20:21worked on by gm right by an engineering company and is it are these plans done

7:20:27they're pretty well done yeah but i haven't seen them and i don't know the details i'm sorry i don't

7:20:32but they're going to go to city staff or if you can approval okay um and i just i i might have this

7:20:41wrong but i in reading the notes on the sketch about the driveway width and the garage width

7:20:48by my calcs and by reading it it looks like in fact those two two numbers don't meet

7:20:56the bylaw in fact they're smaller they're they're narrower than required could you confirm maybe

7:21:02this is to eric or the two staff that that's true i'm seeing that the the request is for the garage

7:21:11request is 3.2 meters and the required size is 3.8 which is 50 of the of the property width

7:21:20and for the driveway it's supposed to be it's 60 which would be and they're they're proposing

7:21:264.5 meters and it measures 4.56 okay not a big deal but the garage seems to it's quite a bit smaller

7:21:34and and we've been the only particular reason i'm asking that is but we've heard many many times

7:21:38this is no big deal it's just technical it meets all the requirements am i wrong

7:21:44uh through the chair to members spears that 3.8 meter is the maximum not the minimum width of

7:21:49of the garage is there a minimum pardon is there a minimum required there is not a minimum

7:21:58required width for a garage to fit a car and and to have a garage count as a parking space and needs

7:22:04to be a minimum of three meters wide okay and the same goes for the driveway that's correct okay thank

7:22:09you for that clarification um i think that's it for my questions actually thank you member

7:22:22members stairs did i see your hand oh sorry any other questions uh member balliband

7:22:29through the chair to planning staff again would there be room in the backyard for another adu

7:22:39or is that not possible because there's nothing shown here as or were in others

7:22:46through the chair to member balliband i don't think that it would be possible to make storm

7:22:50water management uh requirements um satisfy engineering while fitting a detached adu there

7:22:57and i at this point there's only three dwelling units permitted per lot so if two adus were to

7:23:02be in the main dwelling okay a detached one wouldn't be permitted anyway okay thank you

7:23:09any other questions um i i do have one in that um there was a proposed elevation i

7:23:17and i have seen so many perhaps i am confused at this late hour but i'm concerned following up on

7:23:25something member spears said um given the um the grade variation on this lot and the steepness

7:23:34of the site i'm concerned about um how this would be developed and

7:23:42the looming nature of of a of a new residence up against i think it's number six on the left hand

7:23:51side uh either the applicant or staff can you help me with this it's late in the day and i might

7:24:02i have to put on an engineering brain i'm non-engineer i'm a terrial land surveyor and

7:24:07you know all i can all i know is that they're planning infiltration galleries so that means

7:24:12in my mind there's gonna be infiltration galleries in the backyard the water will drain along them

7:24:18that means if there's a grade drop but then the house stays at this height at the back that could

7:24:24work okay it could work but i i just hesitated to answer the question well because i'm not an

7:24:31engineer to really and i don't mean to put you on the spot that way my question is more in terms of

7:24:37the the architecture if you will in that um what is the effective building height adjacent uh vis-a-vis

7:24:45the adjacent property and are we introducing essentially a four or five story um dwelling

7:24:55next to a bungalow i don't yeah again you're you're testing me on on what could happen here i mean

7:25:05it's it's going to be it's going to be a building in accordance with the zoning for sure right in

7:25:10terms of height and so on uh i and if it's a two-story dwelling maybe the basement could be a

7:25:16walkout i don't know i haven't thought about it i apologize i i don't know maybe andrew knows the

7:25:22building better than i i i was hoping that you might come back to the podium thank you we haven't

7:25:27as jeff mentioned flushed out the exact designs but we can assure you that the design will meet

7:25:32the current bylaws for height requirements i appreciate that but there's the the effective

7:25:43result and the bylaw i don't think the effective result is outlined in the bylaws there's just a

7:25:49bylaw dictating the height which we will meet with respect we've had other um presentations

7:25:57some we've approved and some we haven't where they have conformed with the bylaw but the effective

7:26:03result um really doesn't from the neighbor's point of view right well like we said we have not

7:26:10flushed out the exact designs yet and everything we are planning to do will meet the bylaws as set forth

7:26:19okay thank you um and i i guess since you're at the podium i'll ask you um there's been a lot of

7:26:26question about interaction with the neighbors and conversations with the neighbors in my own

7:26:35professional experience that's one of the first things i advise a client to do is to speak to

7:26:41your neighbors have you or do you plan to reach out to your neighbors and consult with them on

7:26:49on what's your plans are going forward with respect and and this is going back to a previous

7:26:55application that i was not in the room for my apologies but we have offered to meet so just

7:27:01to back up sorry we've met with both board counselors for this word we've met with basically all of

7:27:07the word counselors for every word to discuss our various projects in the counselors that sorry in

7:27:12the words that were affected uh by our developments we were advised by other word counselors that they

7:27:21would relay the information from us to their constituents so we were told that they would

7:27:28relay the information we were happy to have the meeting to discuss what we were doing and show

7:27:33them our plans and our anticipated site plans even though they were not flushed out yet and that's

7:27:40no different for this project we met with both word counselors to discuss the project and how we

7:27:45had planned to develop it we did not hold a community meeting that is not required and it's

7:27:51not required to even meet with the word counselors but we felt it necessary to discuss it with them

7:27:55you're absolutely right i'm just putting it out there since it's been raised a great deal we are

7:28:01the members of the public and just to be clear we're happy to meet with anyone we've met with

7:28:05several on our forestry project we've met with several on our water street project all you have

7:28:10to do is reach out we have a website we have a phone number we have email addresses

7:28:13i'm happy to discuss with anyone and for this file thank you for this file no one has reached out to me

7:28:20thank you for that uh committee members do we have any other questions i know that member

7:28:26ballam at ballaband is going to leave us at this point you have a question ah

7:28:37are there any other questions member ballaband you have a motion i move that we defer this application

7:28:45until the applicant has time to meet with the neighborhood do we have a seconder for that

7:28:55member spears there's no debate on a deferral motion uh madam secretary is there any discussion

7:29:03allowed madam secretary treasurer i don't believe so so uh i will ask you to call the vote

7:29:10committee members please indicate your vote by responding in favor or opposed to the motion

7:29:15which is to defer the application chair smith in favor member ballaban in favor

7:29:23member membranio in favor member sarin in favor member seal seagull in favor and member spears

7:29:33in favor let's carry chair the motion has been disferred thank you i believe this concludes our

7:29:45business for this evening madam secretary treasurer are there any um staff announcements

7:29:54no staff announcements mr chair hi thank you and i do have a brief announcement and first i would

7:30:00like to thank staff for staying as as late as you have and for my colleagues on committee of adjustment

7:30:08and for the members of the public who have hung out with us as well as the participants

7:30:13and applicants thank you all and i'm looking for a motion to adjourn member membranio second

7:30:22did by member seagull all those in favor we stand adjourned and you made it by one minute member