Special Council Meeting

16:43Audio test, audio test for live stream, audio test, audio test for live stream.

16:47All right. Hello everyone and thank you so much for your patience.

17:52We are up and running and everything is very well for us, especially online.

17:57So thank you for your patience.

17:59It is just a little bit after five o'clock now,

18:02but it is September the 12th, 2023.

18:05We have a special city council meeting tonight.

18:08It is in regards to review,

18:12a gap analysis of homelessness, substance, health services.

18:18We also have another housing and homelessness plan presentation as well.

18:26So with that, I'd like to just officially call us to order and ask everyone to please rise if you are able to take care of,

18:39yes, oh, Canada please.

20:05Well, thank you so much.

20:06And as we continue in the agenda, if we could just have a moment of silent reflection.

20:23Great. Thank you.

20:24And for our territorial acknowledgement as we gather,

20:27we're reminded that wealth is treaty land that is steeped in rich indigenous history

20:32and home to many First Nations, Inuit and Métis people today.

20:36As a city, we have a responsibility for the stewardship of the land in which we both live and work.

20:41And today we acknowledge the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation,

20:45of the Inishipak peoples on whose traditional territory we are meeting.

20:50Is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof for the items in front of us from any member of council?

20:57I don't hear nor do I see anything.

20:59So I'll consider that matter closed and none there.

21:04And so we are kicking things off here with a very long awaited report that a lot of us have been

21:13excited to receive and to digest and to hear about.

21:18It is the review and gap analysis of homelessness, substance use, mental health services.

21:25We're going to have some presentations in regards to this matter.

21:29We're going to have some delegations as well.

21:32And just for a little bit of a flow tonight, I'll kind of interject as needed as we move to kind of steer council about

21:42staying here, having some in-camera discussions, coming back and so on.

21:47But we'll get to the finale at some point.

21:50So just bear with us, everybody, as we do that.

21:56Would you like me to go directly to our presenters?

21:59OK, Liz Robson, the director of Collective Results.

22:05And Breanne Petrina, am I saying those names right?

22:08Good, two for two.

22:09Manager of Collective Results is here to walk us through their presentation.

22:16And so thank you very much for being here.

22:20And I turn it, I turn everything on over to you guys.

22:22Go right ahead.

22:50Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie and Good Evening Council.

22:53I'm Liz Robson and I'm joined today by Breanne Petrina.

22:57We are both consultants with Collective Results and we're the co-leads for this project.

23:02As requested by council, this project focused on a review and gap analysis of housing,

23:08substance use and mental health services for people experiencing homelessness in Guelph.

23:13Thank you for having us this evening to share the high level findings and recommendations

23:18stemming from this project.

23:20We encourage you to read the full report as we will not have the time to share

23:24the detailed findings with you this evening.

23:44We wanted to start off by acknowledging the great work that is already

23:48happening within Guelph by individuals, organizations and collaborative planning tables

23:53in the areas of housing services, mental health services and substance use services

23:57for people experiencing homelessness.

23:59This report and presentation is not intended to override the community efforts already underway,

24:05but rather can be used as a resource to support continued movement forward

24:09in these areas within the community.

24:14Urgent issues related to homelessness, mental health and substance use are increasing

24:19and connected to those issues are questions from the community, including

24:23who does what and who is responsible for what is needed.

24:28As questions and requests come forward, the city is looking to transition

24:31from a fragmented and reactionary approach to an intentional and coordinated approach

24:37that will inform planning and funding decisions in the area of housing services,

24:41mental health services and substance use service for people experiencing homelessness.

24:50On July 11th, Council had a housing impacts workshop that focused on the right side

24:54of the housing continuum.

24:56Tonight, we are building on your July 11th workshop to share our findings that are

25:00focused on the left side of the housing.

25:03To start off this evening's presentation, we thought it was important to

25:06refamiliarize ourselves with the housing continuum.

25:10At one end, there are individuals and families who are in crisis, who are in

25:13emergency shelters or living rough.

25:16At the other end are homeowners or renters who bought or rented through the

25:21private market.

25:22In the middle are independent renters who pay the rent with assistance.

25:27I'd like to draw your attention to the pink line.

25:29In Guelph, the responsibility for making all of this happen is shared between the

25:33county and the city.

25:35Under provincial legislation, the county of Wellington is designated as the city's

25:40Consolidated Municipal Services Manager or CMSM.

25:45This means that on behalf of the city of Guelph, the county is primarily

25:48responsible for providing housing left of the pink line with some administrative

25:54and financial support from the city.

25:56The city is responsible for facilitating housing supply primarily to the right

26:01of the pink line, mainly through the private market.

26:04The primary focus of this project was to focus on the left side of the

26:09housing continuum.

26:10This includes emergency shelters, transitional housing, supportive housing

26:15and rent geared to income.

26:18Emergency shelters are facilities that provide temporary short term

26:21accommodation for people experiencing homelessness or those in crisis.

26:26Basic supports like meals and hygiene supplies are offered.

26:30Transitional housing is time limited access to housing and promotes housing

26:35stability.

26:36This housing is an intermediate step between emergency housing and housing

26:40emergency crisis shelter and permanent housing.

26:44Supportive housing provides long term housing for people experiencing

26:48homelessness that is combined with cross sectoral supports like medical,

26:52substance use and mental health supports.

26:55It combines independent housing options with common spaces while also providing

27:00access to individualized, flexible and voluntary supports.

27:04Supportive housing is recognized to be superior to the shelter system because

27:09it provides people supports to enable them to move forward towards stable

27:13housing.

27:14And finally, rent geared to income is often referred to as social housing and as

27:19the name suggests, the rent is determined by income.

27:22These subsidized rents are generally about 30% of gross monthly household

27:25income. The county of Wellington manages these subsidies through federal,

27:30provincial and municipal funding.

27:35The primary focus of this project was an analysis of the current state, which

27:40helped to identify gaps and inform recommendations.

27:43The service inventory summarized within the report focuses on services provided by

27:48government, not-for-profit and community based agencies.

27:52It does not include services offered by private companies and or private

27:56practitioners that require clients to pay out of pocket for services.

28:01Recommendations did consider a system wide approach to these complex issues.

28:07Any specific program or service recommendations were focused in areas that

28:12the city funds.

28:14Elements that were out of scope included an assessment of the effectiveness of

28:18service providers within Guelph, revisiting the legally binding relationship between

28:23the city and the county and the right side of the housing continuum.

28:28To contain the scope, services focused exclusively on youth under the age of 18

28:34were excluded.

28:34Finally, while it is important to address the root causes of homelessness,

28:40substance use and mental health issues, prevention services were out of scope for

28:44this project due to the importance of first addressing the immediate needs of the

28:49current situation.

28:57With every project, there are limitations to consider as data is interpreted.

29:02This data was collected in May and June, which means the information is accurate as

29:06of June 2023.

29:08There was an identified need for research findings to come before council before they

29:12were shared within the community.

29:14This prevented our ability to complete a comprehensive validation process with the

29:18community.

29:20To overcome this barrier, we implemented a focused thematic validation process with

29:26three service area experts.

29:30The inventory of services was limited to the information that organizations

29:34submitted.

29:35Some organizations opted not to participate or only submitted partial

29:40information.

29:42Although it is not necessarily a limitation, all survey and interview data are

29:47subjective based on what people think, feel and their experiences.

29:53People with lived experience interviews were conducted in the downtown locations

29:58to ensure uptake, however, this omits perspectives of those who do not frequent

30:03the downtown.

30:03Lastly, the system wide scan was limited to Ontario municipalities to ensure

30:09similar funding environments and academic scholars were excluded.

30:13The design of the methods for this project considered council's requested

30:23timelines and what collective results felt were the most appropriate methods to

30:29gather the most pertinent information in the time provided.

30:33Thus, we used two approaches to inform this project.

30:35The first approach was a local community consultation process.

30:41These were held over a six week period in May and June with the purpose of

30:45determining the local state of services and funding and to identify gaps and

30:49areas of opportunity.

30:51This approach included four methods.

30:55An inventory of services to collect agency mandate and service and funding

30:59details from key agencies.

31:01A community partner survey to gather partners, thoughts and experiences working

31:05in these sectors and in the community.

31:08Peer led people with lived experience interviews to gain valuable insights from

31:13community members who are homeless, experiencing mental health issues and or

31:18substance health issues or sorry substance use issues.

31:23And community partner interviews to delve deeper into the community's

31:26issues.

31:28And community partner interviews to delve deeper into the information that was

31:32gathered from all of the.

31:35Once the data was consolidated and interpreted, we held those three meetings

31:40at the end of June to validate the findings and add some additional context.

31:47The second approach was a multi-level governmental system-wide scan aimed to

31:53determine services and funding at the federal, provincial and municipal levels

31:57in similar size communities and to identify innovative and emerging best

32:02practices and funding opportunities that may be applicable to the city of Guelph.

32:08This included an environmental scan via Google and targeted websites.

32:13It also included key informant interviews with provincial representatives or

32:19comparable municipalities identified in the environmental scan and the community

32:24consultations as having innovative or emerging best practices that may be applicable to Guelph.

32:33This project yielded a comprehensive story of what housing services, mental health services

32:38and substance use services for adults experiencing homelessness look like in Guelph as of June 2023.

32:46Due to our limited time to present the findings this evening, we will highlight some things that

32:50are working well and some areas of opportunity that spanned all three service areas.

32:55We ask you to review the full report for more detailed findings.

33:02So what are some things that we heard were working well?

33:05Understanding the needs of the community across the sectors.

33:08For example, housing services uses the by-name list to understand the inflow and outflow of

33:14homelessness and the composition of people who are homeless in the community in real time.

33:19It also supports the triage of services needed.

33:22It was very clear that there are some strong partnerships and relationships amongst agencies

33:27in this community. For example, the Wellington Guelph Drug Strategy was highlighted as a

33:33coalition of agencies that include people with lived experience.

33:37And there are also formal agreements that exist between the Canadian Mental Health Association,

33:42Waterloo Wellington and Stonehenge. These were also highlighted.

33:46There is a local commitment to providing best practices in the community and using

33:54local data to inform action. Like the use of the flexible, scalable, accessible and timely,

34:00or FAST, overdose alert platform. Let's talk about some of the areas of opportunity that were

34:09identified. Please note this is not an exhaustive list and we ask that you review the report for

34:15more details. There was a strong emphasis on barriers and gaps related to access to local

34:23programs and services. Long wait lists were highlighted in addition to access not always

34:29being equitable. For example, some programs and services are only offered during business hours,

34:35which does not always work well for this population.

34:39There is a need for low barrier spaces for adults experiencing homelessness.

34:44A place where people can go to be social, build life skills and access wrap-around services without

34:50waiting. There are more complex cases in the community with more staff experiencing burnout

34:59and trauma due to these complexities and staff shortages. These factors have exhausted the

35:05service system and those who work in it. Funding and supports are needed to address these changes.

35:19A focus on housing first. We heard consistently from people with lived experience and community

35:24partners that a person is more likely to see positive outcomes with mental health or substance

35:29use services if they have stable housing first. A collaborative system level approach could help

35:36create a seamless integration of housing, mental health and substance use services that would

35:42benefit the community. Lastly, there was confusion about who does what in the community. This was

35:49especially true for the city and the county in terms of the left side of the housing continuum.

35:54Clarity on roles and accountability would help dissolve this confusion.

36:00Based on the above areas of opportunity, it is clear that strong partnerships and collaboration

36:05will be needed to move these service sectors from the current state to an ideal future state.

36:13In fact, community partners were asked about the current state of partnership wealth.

36:17The green bar is substance use, the dark blue is mental health and the purple is housing

36:24with the partnership options that were presented listed on the vertical axes.

36:28Network, networking is information sharing. Cooperation is supporting one another's services

36:35without formal agreements. Coordination is engagement in mutual projects with shared

36:41decision making and resources and collaboration has formal agreements in place with partners working

36:47toward a shared vision. If you look at the top of this visual, networking and cooperation

36:54were noted most frequently as the current state of partnership. We also asked the same

37:03for the desired future state. As you can see in the bottom of the visual, partners identified

37:09collaboration as an ideal future state for these services in wealth. This means that there is

37:15interest among partners in shifting how they work towards a more collaborative model to provide

37:21housing services, mental health services and substance use services for people experiencing

37:27homelessness and wealth. This new model could include engaging in mutual projects, sharing

37:33resources and decision making, collaborating in formal agreements and working together towards

37:38a shared vision. This stands out as a powerful commitment from across the community to work

37:45better together to support the most vulnerable and represents a very positive space to be in as you

37:52develop actions to move this forward. We will now be transitioning to the recommendations section

38:03of our presentation. Recommendations have been developed to align with the key takeaways and

38:11overarching takeaways identified within the report. For ease of reference, recommendations have been

38:17summarized as system level recommendations, housing focus recommendations and health services focus

38:23recommendations. While we will be reviewing the recommendations one at a time, they are best viewed

38:29as a comprehensive suite of actions that have taken together, have the potential to best serve

38:35and support the most vulnerable members of the community. Collective results considers the

38:41recommendations summarized in this report as a first step to determining how to improve these

38:46complex issues as a collaborative community. We encourage council to review these recommendations

38:52alongside additional input received from community partners, delegations, council members and city staff

39:00to inform the final suite of motions for approval. Given that these recommendations were developed

39:05to inform actions that are within council's jurisdiction, we encourage community partners

39:10to build upon this report by collecting additional data and context to inform collaborative actions

39:17that can be taken by service providers and other community groups. Systems level recommendations

39:26are those that span across housing, substance use and mental health. The overarching systems level

39:32recommendations are encouraged to promote cross sectoral and intergovernmental collaboration.

39:40System recommendation one, the city of Guelph adopt a human rights-based approach to housing

39:47to align with the national housing strategy. This approach was identified through our system-wide

39:53skin as an emerging practice and we include it here as system recommendation one as it has the

39:59potential to support the city and transitioning to a planned and intentional approach to addressing

40:05housing needs on the left side of the continuum. In 2021, the National Housing Strategy Act was

40:13passed. This approach includes the principles of non-discrimination, inclusion, participation

40:20and accountability. For municipalities like Guelph that are not the CMSM for housing,

40:26you are limited in your ability to implement concrete change or investment in housing

40:31on the left side of the housing continuum. Adopting a human rights-based approach provides

40:36an important mechanism for municipalities like Guelph to increase accountability, advocacy and

40:43provide concrete pathways to support residents whose rights are not being realized. There are

40:51important strengths of a human rights-based approach to housing that warrant adoption at a

40:56municipal level. Unlike the reactionary approach that many municipalities in Ontario are taking

41:02by declaring a state of emergency on homelessness, a rights-based approach to housing sets out a

41:08long-term vision for housing and focuses on improving housing outcomes for those in greatest need.

41:15The city of Toronto, Kitchener, Hamilton and Thunder Bay appear to be early adopters of

41:21this approach in Ontario. Given that the National Housing Strategy Act is fairly new,

41:27there is a need to build the knowledge base at all levels of government regarding a rights-based

41:31approach. There are supportive resources and agencies to increase this capacity at a municipal

41:37level. By providing education for city councillors and staff, this will support you in making informed

41:43decisions, enhance accountability and support you in critically evaluating requests and

41:49recommendations that are brought forward. A human rights-based approach to housing will also

41:55allow city actions to be complementary and supportive of the County of Wellington mandate

42:01roles, responsibilities and their 10-year housing and homelessness plan. Finally, a human rights-based

42:08approach to housing can support intergovernmental collaboration to address homelessness, which

42:14has been identified as a key gap from the environmental skin and the local community

42:19consultations. System recommendation two, council requests that the government of Ontario develop

42:28and adopt a provincial housing strategy with measurable targets and sufficient funds for

42:34ending homelessness and ensuring access of all Ontarians, including those of limited income,

42:39to housing of an adequate standard without discrimination. It should also take into

42:45consideration the needs of Indigenous people, LGBTQ2S plus people, people with disabilities

42:51including mental illness, women experiencing domestic violence, lone parents, immigrants

42:58and newcomers and people living in poverty or with low incomes. Two findings that are not

43:04surprising from our gap analysis is that funding barriers exist and that these challenges are not

43:10unique to Guelph. These barriers are difficult to overcome, however ongoing advocacy to the province

43:17on these issues is one mechanism available to influence change. A provincial strategy supported

43:23with sufficient funds and measurable targets can support coordinated movement across the province

43:29in supporting housing services on the left side of the housing continuum. It is also important

43:34that there is flexibility with how and where funding can be used to best support the needs of the

43:39most vulnerable members of our community. System recommendation three, council requests that the

43:47Guelph Wellington Ontario Health team work with the Guelph and Wellington task force for poverty

43:53elimination to plan for the integration of health services in the housing sector and address the

44:00community need for permanent supportive housing. This planning should include city, county and

44:06Ontario health West representation and be aligned with provincial direction and or strategy.

44:13The Guelph and Wellington task force for poverty elimination is an example of a group

44:20that is working collaboratively to take local action and advocate for system and policy change.

44:26The poverty task force has already identified permanent supportive housing as a priority

44:30area of action for the community. The Guelph Wellington Ontario Health team is a group of

44:36partners that are working collaboratively to improve the health of persons living in Guelph

44:40Wellington. Planning and coordination with Ontario Health teams emerged as a potential

44:46opportunity from both municipal and provincial key informants in our system wide scan. Other

44:53municipalities identified partnerships with Ontario Health teams as a potential opportunity to

44:59mobilize resources and work together in a different way. Systems planning with Ontario

45:05Health teams could address the support side of supportive housing which has been identified

45:11as a funding gap. While the Guelph Wellington Ontario Health team does not identify housing or

45:17homelessness as a strategic priority, it does have a strategic priority to focus on health equity.

45:24This may provide an opportunity to address the intersections of mental health,

45:29substance use and homelessness through a health equity lens. Pairing the work of the Guelph

45:34Wellington Ontario Health team with the poverty task force along with key partners including the

45:39city, the county and Ontario Health West could support continued integration of housing and

45:46health supports. We are recommending system recommendation three to address two of the

45:54main takeaways that emerged from our review and gap analysis. The first was an identified

45:59community need for greater collaboration and systems level planning. The second is a need to

46:05focus on permanent supportive housing including a need for investments in both capital and

46:10operational expenditures. System recommendation four, council requests that the Guelph, the county of

46:19Wellington in collaboration with local municipalities and local health organizations jointly

46:26advocate to the Ministry of Health to provide accessible base funding to support wrap around

46:31health supports on the left side of the housing community. The biggest funding barriers are those

46:38that allow the integration of health services within housing services. As you saw in the inventory

46:44of services, most of the time these services are funded separately. For example, emergency shelter

46:51funding flows through the county as the CMSM and health funding flows through the Ministry of Health

46:57or Ontario Health West to health service providers within Guelph. This fragmented approach to funding

47:03has caused confusion about roles and creates silos in planning a system approach. The Ministry of

47:11Health is aware of these barriers and has indicated that it is exploring solutions to these known

47:16funding limitations. While this type of barrier is difficult to overcome, ongoing advocacy to the

47:23Ministry of Health on this issue is one mechanism available to influence change. System recommendation

47:31five, council requests that the Wellington-Dufferin Guelph Public Health Board of Health leave an

47:37ongoing comprehensive outcome evaluation of the system's level approach to homelessness,

47:43whether it be working with the Guelph Wellington Ontario Health team or with the city and the

47:47county. Through our system-wide scan, it was identified that some municipalities are working

47:53with public health to evaluate the effectiveness and impact of programs and services. Public health

48:00units in Ontario have a mandate to focus on health equity and evidence-informed planning,

48:05including evaluations. Recommendation five illustrates the important partnership opportunity

48:11between municipalities and public health to work collaboratively to address and evaluate

48:16complex health issues in the community. As we continue to work collaboratively to develop and

48:25implement solutions for the complex issues of housing, mental health and substance use services

48:30for people experiencing homelessness, it is equally as important to ensure that the solutions

48:36achieve their intended outcomes and community impact. Through our system-wide scan, there were

48:41only a few examples of programs across the province that attempt to measure the impact and outcomes

48:46of housing services for people experiencing homelessness. Where evaluation and measurement

48:52is in place, it tends to focus on process measures as opposed to client outcomes.

48:57This limits our understanding of how well the system, including specific services within the

49:02system, are doing at achieving their intended impact. System recommendation six. Council requests

49:13that the Chamber of Commerce approach developers to donate land for housing needs and wrap-round

49:17services on the left side of the housing continuum, including but not limited to emergency shelters,

49:23transitional housing, supportive housing and wellness hubs. The city must be prepared to

49:28facilitate the required approvals connected with these opportunities. This should directly connect

49:34with the local collaborative plans. There continues to be a need for ongoing investments

49:41to ensure that programs and services continue to meet community need. System recommendation six

49:48should be clearly connected to system recommendation three, which involves a system-level planning

49:54for the integration of health and housing supports. As needs are identified, that is where the

50:00opportunity for support from the Chamber could fit in. As it is anticipated that there will be a need

50:06for locations in the community to deliver new or expanded services such as an alternate care

50:11destination clinic, a low barrier drop in space and permanent supportive housing. The city could

50:18potentially partner with the Chamber to support planning for these needs. The city must also be

50:23prepared to facilitate the required approvals connected with these opportunities. Let's move

50:34to housing focus recommendations. Housing recommendation one. Council requests the following

50:44to establish clarity and accountability regarding the city and the councils, sorry, and the county's

50:50role in the housing continuum. A review of the governance model of the county of Wellington's

50:56social services committee. Updated service level agreements with measurable outcomes,

51:01key performance indicators, and clear expectations for reporting process and frequency.

51:08And the city of Guelph should hire a dedicated role to support both A and B and the implementation

51:13of a human rights-based approach to housing from system recommendation one. This role should be an

51:19active member of the county of Wellington's community advisory board. In Wellington County,

51:26homelessness is most visible in Guelph and most services like emergency shelters are all based

51:31in Guelph. With Wellington County as the CMSM, this has led to some confusion about who should be

51:38addressing the left side of the housing continuum and what participants in the community consultations

51:45noted as an ineffective governance structure. This recommendation ensures a strong collaborative

51:52systems level approach that supports the services addressing the left side of the housing continuum

51:58with clear roles and responsibility, accountabilities, and expectations without disrupting the CMSM role.

52:06The proposed dedicated rights-based housing role at the city would be integral to this

52:12recommendation and some of the system level recommendations becoming a reality. There was

52:20agreement across municipal key informants that transparency from the CMSM about how funding

52:26is being invested, what services are being delivered, and how well they are doing at

52:32meeting needs and key outcomes is critical to fostering healthy relationships and trust.

52:38Actions that could support this transparency include reviewing city representation on both

52:44the social services committee and the community advisory board with recommendations for appropriate

52:50city representation and voting rights, creating clear expectations for when and how the county

52:57will report to the city about housing services. Housing recommendation two. Council requests

53:07that city staff undertake a review of the city's role and process in informing funding decisions

53:13for housing services on the left side of the housing continuum. This includes funding for

53:19daytime shelter space. This recommendation was informed by the lack of systems level approach

53:31to housing and the challenges that extend from the current lack of clarity around roles and

53:36responsibilities that I just mentioned and housing recommendation number one. We heard that the city

53:42often questions whether you are currently funding programs or services that you should not be.

53:49This is partly attributed to the public confusion about the city's

53:53role in addressing the left side of the housing continuum. The product of this recommendation

53:59coupled with the previous recommendation, local collaborative plans, and the rights-based approach

54:05to housing in the system recommendation section would guide funding decisions based on what is

54:12within the scope of the newly established roles and responsibilities of the city. Due to the focus

54:22of housing recommendation three, it will be reviewed in close session with council. Lastly,

54:29we have integrated both mental health and substance use service recommendations into health service

54:34recommendations. Health services recommendation one. Council requests that city staff provide the

54:44Canadian mental health association Waterloo Wellington with a letter of support for the funding

54:49application to the Ministry of Health or regional alternate care destination clinic. The alternate

55:00care destination model is an emerging best practice approach to provide health services outside of a

55:07hospital setting. This model addresses stigma and existing capacity issues with emergency departments,

55:14police and emergency medical services or EMS, and responding to issues related to homelessness

55:22and low to moderate mental health and substance use issues. Community partners in Guelph led by

55:28CMHA Waterloo Wellington are preparing a funding application with support from Ontario Health West

55:35for this model to be developed and implemented in Guelph.

55:43Health services recommendation two. Council requests that the Ministry of Health provide

55:48clarity on how all mental health services in Guelph are funded, including community based

55:53services, hospital residential services and public private models of care to determine if the funding

56:00model impacts equitable access to mental health services in Guelph. This recommendation stemmed

56:09from a key takeaway from the community consultations that there is a lack of equitable access to

56:14mental health services based on the way that the funding is distributed by the Ministry of Health

56:19in Guelph. Examples included limited affordable counseling services available and limited public

56:27ward beds for residential treatment services. A review would provide clarity around the local

56:33mental health services funding formula and could serve as a foundation to advocate for funds to

56:39be expanded and or distributed in a way that equally benefits every community member in Guelph.

56:47This approach and advocacy efforts could also be extended to include equitable access to substance

56:53use services in the community. Health services recommendation three. Council supports the Guelph

57:05police service and CMHA, Waterloo Wellington's second application to the Solicitor General for

57:11here 24-7 and impact or the integrated mobile police and crisis team funding. Challenges were

57:23noted in the local response system based on funding issues with impact and here 24-7 in the

57:29community consultations. This recommendation helps to secure funding for qualified staff to

57:36consistently support those in crisis exactly when it is needed. Health services recommendation four.

57:46Council requests that the Wellington Guelph drug strategy continue to address known substance use

57:51service barriers including but not limited to funding access and wait lists to improve substance

57:59use services available to vulnerable populations within Guelph. The Wellington Guelph drug strategy

58:07and the agency that belong to the coalition are doing some impactful work to address substance

58:12use issues and service barriers for vulnerable populations in Guelph via the four pillar drug

58:18strategy approach. This recommendation encourages this work to continue leveraging the findings

58:26from this report to inform future actions for the four pillars. As we conclude our presentation we

58:34wanted to thank everyone who participated in this project from April to June including people with

58:39lived and living experience community partners and city staff. Thank you city council for receiving

58:46this report and presentation. You welcome any questions you may have. Great thank you very very

58:54much. I have a feeling there'll be probably several questions so yeah why don't you go and just make

58:59yourself comfortable. I have to stand at the podium there and I know I have a few questions myself

59:09but because I sit in this chair I go last so we oh yeah we do have delegations which I care deeply

59:18about I just forgot about you so I'm sorry I'm sorry about that. We are going to go to delegations

59:23and then we will go to questions. So let me go my agenda here and the first one we have is

59:31Michael Keegan who is here in person come on down so we have three everybody just you know

59:46I think all three if I look in the audience are here actually Jen's here Shaquiba's here so Shaquiba

59:52you'll be next Jennifer you'll be you'll be third and each of you have no more than five minutes

59:58I will not oh do we have the new uh do we have new chime? We do you will hear a chime in the new

1:00:06tech world that we have here at the 32nd mark to give you a warning so but you won't hear from me

1:00:13to interrupt you unless we do get to five minutes so uh you start and go right ahead thank you.

1:00:28Thank you I'll do my best um I struggled to figure out what I wanted to say and the reason I think

1:00:36is because this is actually a pretty emotional set of issues many of you were here last year a

1:00:43little over a year ago when I came to talk about some of the experiences of my family

1:00:48in the downtown area I know that these issues affect many families in different ways across the

1:00:56city across the province across the country so I think I want to start by just quoting Thomas

1:01:03Jefferson the measure of society is how we treat them I think that's a value that we all share

1:01:09and the reason why everybody's here and the reason why you council uh have undertaken this

1:01:14leadership so I want to start by acknowledging a lot of hard work by dedicated people council city staff

1:01:21um service providers uh the county of Wellington uh community activists and just the public in general

1:01:30people are doing good work in difficult circumstances inadequate resource chronically

1:01:36underfunded circumstances and these are complex challenges I recently heard these challenges

1:01:41termed the most visible pathologies of poverty and I thought that was an apt description for

1:01:47a really intricate interaction between homelessness mental health and addiction

1:01:52and we know that it's reached new levels of acuteness in our post pandemic world including Guelph

1:01:56but far beyond Guelph so I believe that this report by collective results is necessary for a step in

1:02:03tackling a complex set of challenges with no easy answers nor obvious structures or mechanisms to

1:02:09address them so I want to thank you for taking this step and for continuing to lead in this space

1:02:17I want to highlight a few things that I believe you as council should have an opportunity to consider

1:02:21first I just want to reiterate that this report is a first the limitations the project are well

1:02:27documented and we're just spoken about in the presentation number two engagement on this project

1:02:34was both extensive and insufficient and I would encourage council and staff to continue to look

1:02:39for formal and informal mechanisms and opportunities to engage with this broad ecosystem of service

1:02:46provider subject matter experts community partners people have lived experience in the community at

1:02:51large particularly a staff prepared analysis and report for the coming council meeting in October

1:02:58I also want to acknowledge that this report did not highlight the acute manifestations of these

1:03:03challenges in the downtown core particularly the impact it's having on businesses employees and

1:03:09the general public I think this needs to be acknowledged to ensure that those who need hope

1:03:14can continue to have confidence that their voices can be heard finally I'd like to highlight

1:03:20my hope that this report and the forthcoming staff report can be a catalyst to providing a plan of

1:03:26action that I think is well defined in the room specifically the need for more integrated and

1:03:32coordinated ecosystem care and support around these complex challenges it's clear that the

1:03:37ecosystem is not optimally integrated that has gaps and it's chronically under the question for

1:03:45council is what your role in that and I want to acknowledge that you aren't responsible for most

1:03:49of this but neither is anyone else and I think that's one of the core problems some of these

1:03:54elements you have responsibility or control but most of these you don't you might have at best

1:04:01some influence so the question for all of us is how do we do this how do we make meaningful

1:04:07change to the ecosystem without the levers and control that's necessary as the report suggests

1:04:15I think the answer to this is we have to work collectively to build a better ecosystem so what

1:04:21do we do my own perspective is that the report provides some direction on the initial plan

1:04:26number one work to influence a more integrated collaborative and coordinated ecosystem a governance

1:04:33model amongst the key institutions like the hospital like homewood and other service providers

1:04:39that could effectively set priorities make decisions undertake action where there's control

1:04:44undertake advocacy where there's only influence and do so in a coherent and coordinated way

1:04:50I also believe that we'll need to look at the service providers to ensure that they'll have

1:04:54what they need to be able to operate and because the special legislative nature of the service to

1:05:00county I think that you do need to have a look at that I also want to think you need to prioritize

1:05:07permanent supportive housing and some of the key investments in the capacity I think my time's up

1:05:12so thank you let's get at it great thank you so much and it looks like there is one follow-up here

1:05:20from councillor Goller thank you and through you mayor Guthrie thank you mr. King for the presentation

1:05:28and thank you for making reference to the the situation that we're experiencing in our downtown

1:05:33wealth so that I don't have to be the one to tell the story could you tell us a little bit more so

1:05:38that it's present in the room what the current situation is in the downtown and how it's impacting

1:05:44the businesses in wealth sure I could go on at some length but maybe I'll tell you about a phone

1:05:50call I got yesterday a downtown business owner who was concerned about this report and and that it

1:05:59didn't reference some of the challenges in the downtown and he made reference to a number of

1:06:06incidents continued harassment of staff at it within the store by someone who had 13 trust pass

1:06:14orders so you know this is this is a really frustrating challenge he was very concerned about

1:06:20staff feelings of safety or or insecurity there as well as you know I asked how business was

1:06:29being affected there was concern out of some of the customers but more importantly there was a told

1:06:36me four stores that had closed over the past few months not necessarily only because of the

1:06:43situation the downtown but that was a significant contributor and with more expected as well as

1:06:51and I think this is maybe the most important part a couple of acute health emergencies that

1:06:58required calling 911 to help people who had overdosed or who were in some kind of medical

1:07:05distress so I think it's fair to say that the downtown situation is having an effect on the

1:07:13ability of businesses to be successful it is impacting the way that people experience downtown

1:07:20and and I think we all agree that the most vulnerable people who need services are not

1:07:27finding those services or the supports that they need so it's just a failure all around

1:07:35thank you very much I really appreciate it thank you your worship okay thank you and

1:07:40follow-up question uh councillor uh busochel please yes thank you I want to say thank you very

1:07:46much Michael for the personal story um and the connection that you bring to this I did have a

1:07:52question this is just for my notes I'm a I've had note taker and who says what kind of thing

1:07:57so you you spoke about the personal in your family um and and you kind of concluded speaking

1:08:03about the business so can you help me understand so are you speaking now on behalf of the downtown

1:08:09chamber and what are you just kind of help me because I've got your name here and I've got

1:08:13personal and now now after uh councillor Goller's question it's like okay now I'm confused here

1:08:19maybe I should scratch that out you can help me that would be helpful do you want to know who I

1:08:23am and why I'm here yes thank you that's that's fair enough uh good question uh well I suppose

1:08:29number one I'm a resident of wealth I own a business and my office is located in the town core

1:08:36I have two children both in high school who frequent downtown I'm a volunteer with the chamber

1:08:46and uh yeah I have lots of personal experience uh past present and no doubt the future with

1:08:55the curse of of these challenges thank you I got that all okay and uh councillor roark please

1:09:05thanks margothry um through you to mr keegan so we're all eager to get to a model that works

1:09:13right um I'm curious I'm really curious about the model that is in waddle the region they do have

1:09:20a model for their child and youth planning table right where they have all the stakeholders at that

1:09:26table is that a model that you're familiar with that might be useful in this space and then that

1:09:33the kicker question really is we know that a lot of the healthcare providers are also involved with

1:09:40the formation of the OHTs right so they're they're trying to balance the priorities within that sector

1:09:46as directed by the province that pressures on for them to do that so um do you think a model like

1:09:53the child and youth planning table would be helpful either at the county or the city is that a model

1:09:58we should consider and I'll ask the consultants that as well um and and how do you think there

1:10:04how do you how do you think there is capacity in the system right now especially in the healthcare

1:10:09space uh is that all no this is a good question I think it's one of the core questions what's the

1:10:19right governance model how do we make sure there's capacity and meaningful action um

1:10:28so I think the test here is what's most important right so are we able to make decisions set priorities

1:10:37and see progress on those um I think that one of the challenges with the way things currently are

1:10:46is that does rely on census and collaboration um and if we don't have the some I don't want to say

1:10:54we still need collaboration but without some ability to um resolve conflict and or make decisions that

1:11:03that we can have some accountability around then I I'm not sure how we will make progress

1:11:08because knitting this together in a more coordinated and accountable way I think is the is the task here

1:11:14so um I'm not familiar with the model that you referenced my question would be how are they

1:11:20making out on their ability to get things done um in the way that they set out to do them my own

1:11:28thoughts around that um would be uh you know the it's the capacity question we can put anybody at

1:11:36the head of the table but do they have the ability um to move the agenda along uh and hold people

1:11:43accountable to that um maybe some of the the the carrots so to speak around this are you know I

1:11:50know the federal government um is gonna get back into the housing of things like social housing

1:11:57and community housing we should be ready for that in fact we might even want to help shape

1:12:02what those programs and funding uh models look like I would anticipate the province is going to

1:12:08be doing something similar so how can we you know it's going to be easier to get some consensus out

1:12:16of the gate if we're looking at a bigger pie rather than up the existing pie but I think over the

1:12:21longer term we're gonna we need to be able to make some tough decisions um that's what you

1:12:29I don't know if that answers the question but thanks now I saw another hand go up I thought

1:12:38but maybe I was wrong no thank you thank you very much really appreciate your time

1:12:44and uh Shakiba uh Shani from the Chamber of Commerce is here so you can write down who's

1:12:56who their councillor was to um and you uh your time will start when you start and just make

1:13:03sure you hit the button oh it's already on for you there you go you go right ahead thank you good

1:13:07evening Mayor Guthrie counselors and city staff I believe that we all recognize that the current

1:13:13homelessness mental health and substance use ecosystem is struggling that is not a criticism

1:13:19of any one particular person organization or institution but an important acknowledgement

1:13:25that complex problems have overwhelmed the ecosystem that exists as is the consultation and

1:13:32recently released report was intended to be a snapshot of the current state of this particular

1:13:36ecosystem and in order to gain insight into how we would improve or better align the complexity

1:13:42of the challenge so let me extend my thanks to Liz, Brienne and the entire collective results team

1:13:49as well as DCAO Colleen Clack Bush and General Manager Jody Sales and other city staff for all

1:13:54their efforts helping us move this work forward today with the information in front of you you

1:14:01might be asking okay so when we boil this down how exactly should the ecosystem change and evolve

1:14:07and what is our role and frankly the answer is not perfectly clear in fact the only thing I'm

1:14:13certain of is that there will never be a perfect answer and there is always more to understand and

1:14:18do I think the question becomes so what do we do with what we've been presented the conclusion I was

1:14:26able to make is that our community requires an integrated health and housing plan to address the

1:14:31mental health substance use and homelessness challenges before us three notable overarching

1:14:37findings that need our collective attention are that there are funding barriers to the integrated

1:14:42systems approach there is a lack of alignment across these service areas and most significantly

1:14:49there is no comprehensive governance model with defined roles responsibilities and

1:14:53accountability to enable integrated activities across these areas what was also really clear

1:15:00to me in the report is that the city of Guelph can play a crucial role in orchestrating alongside

1:15:06pertinent partners a series of activities to address these system findings as staff noted in

1:15:12the council memo with stakeholder commentary there was consensus that we shouldn't yet get bogged

1:15:18down in exactly how to execute the many tactical recommendations that could be undertaken as identified

1:15:24in the report because of course we can advocate but to who and for what exactly and of course I

1:15:31can convene the private sector to help but in service to which plan exactly I am committed to

1:15:37supporting whatever collective effort is required in answering questions finally I highly recommend

1:15:44that stakeholder engagement opportunities to inform the upcoming staff report are made possible

1:15:49the engagement opportunity last week about the report allowed partners to correct inaccuracies

1:15:53and identify and highlight missing opportunities the many committed and hardworking service

1:16:00providers community contributors content experts can continue to bring an incredible amount of value

1:16:06and insight into how we can move forward thank you and thank you very much and how about a follow-up

1:16:14question it looks like councillor Allt wants to go first go ahead thank you ma'am i got three through

1:16:19you to miss shayani miss shayani thank you very much for your presentation and for recognizing

1:16:25that we have a problem i completely agree and i also believe that you are correct there are crucial

1:16:30roles to be played by many stakeholders uh one that i know was was outlined by the presenters

1:16:37previously when they said the chamber might have a role in lobbying or urging home builders and

1:16:43developers to provide land for affordable housing i was wondering if you could outline what some of

1:16:48the challenges might be for you representing the chamber on that and if you could reflect on the

1:16:53montreal example which concerns me that it might be a template for developers rather than providing

1:16:58the land paying the penalties instead um thank you councillor Allt for the question um so there are

1:17:09many opportunities and complexities to um you know implementing and executing the specific

1:17:15recommendation as outlined by collective results um but i know uh with you know with complete certainty

1:17:24that folks are willing and interested in coming to the table in fact it's an offer that we continue

1:17:29to make to convene the the right stakeholders um to have the conversation on whatever kinds of

1:17:36contributions and interventions are possible um you know to advance a collective agenda so um

1:17:42there's a strong commitment interest and a willingness to do so um i can speak on behalf of

1:17:49many folks who could do this and i know that there are other partners groups um and and individuals

1:17:56and businesses that that you know i don't want to speak for uniquely but that would be wanting to be

1:18:01at the table to to help i don't think that there are specific technical challenges um that is

1:18:09necessarily worth getting into right now but i do think that we can bring those opportunities

1:18:15and challenges to the table and see what we can do to overcome them um i think that there are

1:18:20opportunities to accelerate and advance projects um that are in the the public interest and and

1:18:27that'll meet the crisis um where we're at and opportunities to help shape um policies and

1:18:34processes that can advance um housing supply across the continuum at large as well thank you so

1:18:43i understand then that you don't think that the montreal example where every single developer

1:18:49paid a penalty would come to bearing wealth but that rather benevolence and largesse would be

1:18:55more the norm here and we could see land being offered um uh councillor all i'm actually

1:19:02frankly not super familiar with the specific example you're giving and so i i um kind of

1:19:08refrain from commenting on that specific example but i don't doubt that there are ways to accomplish

1:19:15what we're talking about with private sector contribution thank you very much appreciate that

1:19:23thank you and yeah we don't have that policy here so as much as it might be a concern in

1:19:28in another area we don't have an apples to apples comparison like that anyways so

1:19:33thank you any other questions at all the delegate councillor Caron please

1:19:40yes thank you mr mayor uh to the to um i'm miss shanani um the you're involved in the

1:19:48ontario chambers of commerce and colleagues across the province so along the same lines of

1:19:53councillor Allt's question are there models that you're seeing are there best practices that you're

1:19:58seeing that you've shared with our staff or that you could point to where um significant progress

1:20:04is being made in other jurisdictions whether they're single tier or two tier um thank you

1:20:11councillor Caron yes there are models and examples of successful projects um and activities across um

1:20:19all kinds of different jurisdictions that i think we can model um our our decisions approaches

1:20:25and frameworks against um again my recommendation is that before we necessarily get into tactical

1:20:34implementation that we get really clear about our objectives um our targets how we will measure them

1:20:41what kind of accountabilities are in place and um and hold the housing continuum in a in a container

1:20:48comprehensively and so once we have that in place i do believe that we can then uh you know

1:20:53based on what we want to accomplish identify what tactics might be necessary what interventions

1:20:59what incentives or policy decisions need to be made to enable um those objectives thank you okay

1:21:09thank you and it looks like councillor kate has one uh final question too or a couple questions as

1:21:14many as you want it's over to you uh just just one um thanks uh mr mayor uh through you to miss

1:21:22jane so um i'm really encouraged that you think that there's a lot of developers who would be

1:21:29interested in that recommendation from staff i know that having talked to a few about different

1:21:34things kind of coming up um throughout the city that there's folks who are talking about

1:21:39um talking through um homeless from humanity and other groups who were trying to figure out

1:21:45different pricing levels uh is there a timeline that the chamber could begin these discussions

1:21:53so that we would be able to hear something back on that um thank you for the question councillor

1:21:58kate and uh there the timeline is um anytime we're ready to bring forward a request connected to

1:22:08objectives that we're trying to accomplish so um the willingness of of private sector to come to

1:22:15the table is is now and um i would hope that we would put um a plan forward um with some clear

1:22:22objectives um a clear connection to a comprehensive plan about how this will um support the targets

1:22:31and the growth that we want to see in our community and um and make a specific request i don't think

1:22:37we're i don't believe i've not seen any information on um you know what i would bring forward um but

1:22:43we can bring a conversation together as soon as um possible and feasible um i i believe that there's

1:22:49some additional work that needs to be done to be able to have an effective conversation uh the

1:22:55private sector um and so with an opportunity to be able to influence and shape um what the

1:23:01comprehensive plan could look like and include um i would be happy to bring some of those folks

1:23:07to the table um very quickly great thank you so much thank you very much for your presentation

1:23:16appreciate it thank you and jennifer gibson you're here waiting patiently thank you come on down

1:23:27and just as you're coming down on behalf of the homewood health center so thank you very much

1:23:32and again you've already heard me up to five minutes and you'll hear the chimes and what not

1:23:36and it looks like the green light is on which means your your mic is on so you can start whenever

1:23:40you're ready okay thank you and good evening thank you to the mayor and all members of council

1:23:45for this opportunity to delegate i am jennifer gibson vp of finance and administration at homewood

1:23:50health center and would like to provide some further comments and context as it pertains to

1:23:54homewood and our work in the community and direct response to the reports home would like would like

1:24:00to thank council and staff for undertaking this important work homewood is committed and an active

1:24:05member in the continuum of mental health and addiction services in the working collaboratively

1:24:10with other service providers in the area we participated in the collective results inventory

1:24:15of services with transparency providing full insight into our programs and government funding

1:24:20we understand there's further work to be undertaken subsequent to the report and want to ensure that

1:24:25all stakeholders are provided with accurate information particularly as it pertains to homewood

1:24:30homewood health center is a fully accredited medically based 300 bed inpatient facility

1:24:35the schedule one psychiatric mental health facility for the region

1:24:39homewood receives 34 million dollars in base funding from the ministry of health

1:24:43for all residents of ontario and funding can be approximated as eight million regionally

1:24:49homewood operates 58 critical beds for patients presenting in crisis at regional hospitals

1:24:54who require care at a schedule one facility facilitating the assessment and transfer of

1:24:59these patients requires close collaboration between the clinical teams at area hospitals and

1:25:03homewood homewood operates 246 specialized elective beds that can be accessed by residents of guelph

1:25:10and all ontarians five of these beds are ward beds and the remainder requires some portion

1:25:15of self-pay insurance to cover accommodation costs the reason additional sources of funding are

1:25:19required is that homewood is only funded at approximately 37 percent of total operating

1:25:24costs for the province despite routinely providing 85 percent of our total patient days for ontarians

1:25:30the necessity and inclusion of accommodations revenue in our budget is not dissimilar to public

1:25:34hospitals where additional charges are applied depending on the type of room in which you stay

1:25:39we are underfunded for the services we provide and require accommodations revenue to offset the

1:25:43total cost of providing care additional provisional provincial funding would assist in offsetting

1:25:48the current shortfall and potentially allow for additional services homewood continues to invest

1:25:53resources and advocating on behalf of the community and all ontario residents

1:25:57homewood works very closely with their partners in the community in addition to participating on

1:26:01a variety of local committees and tables homewood works in close partnership with the guelph general

1:26:06administering staffing and managing the emergency emergency mental health services of the gg department

1:26:12m haus provides 24 7 psychiatric care to patients presenting at the emergency department

1:26:18additionally we provide clinical liaison psychiatry services to all patients of ggh

1:26:23where there's a need for psychiatric consultation this is of course at no cost to the patient

1:26:28m haus also includes the mental health and addiction follow-up services or mayfus where

1:26:32patients 18 plus are provided a short-term bridge of two to four weeks directly from the ggh

1:26:37emergency department until connection with community support is set up

1:26:42homewood is a leader in promoting education for psychiatry homewood has been a close partner

1:26:46in McMaster and training medical students for close to two decades and was instrumental in the

1:26:50success and launching and growing of McMaster Waterloo Regional Campus psychiatry residency

1:26:55program in the last decade homewood has been instrumental in recruiting at least 20 psychiatrists

1:27:00to this region and about half of these are now practicing outside of homewood and within the

1:27:04community for absolute clarity and understanding it's important to note that the psychiatric

1:27:08services provided by ontario residents at the health center are oh hip are oh hip build and are

1:27:14not private-paced services as may be the misconception homewood has concerns regarding the process

1:27:19collective results undertook for this important body of work that could serve to inform decisions

1:27:24for years to come and for some of the most vulnerable citizens as identified in the report

1:27:29given the high-profile nature of the project there was not an opportunity to complete a

1:27:33comprehensive data validation process respectfully given the high-profile nature of the project

1:27:38and the long-lasting potential for impact the report cannot be relied on without this comprehensive

1:27:43data validation process and should be redone with absolute transparency without a full data

1:27:48validation process across all participants any resulting recommendations cannot and should not

1:27:53be relied relied upon this is particularly true where individual organizations are provided city

1:27:59support and are tasked with initiatives without a clear understanding of evidence of the success

1:28:03of these proposed initiatives a full understanding of current funding for all agencies and a consensus

1:28:09amongst areas service providers for future success efficiency and results for the people of Guelph

1:28:16per the report the city is seeking a framework that will provide clarity on system roles and

1:28:19responsibility to support the intentional coordinated approach to planning homewood does

1:28:24not feel such a framework is presented here tonight and ask respectfully that council decline the report

1:28:31all right thank you very much and I appreciate your your presentation and is there any follow-up

1:28:38questions it looks like councillor busetel please thank you very much for your delegation I was

1:28:45trying to take notes as you were presenting can you kind of encapsulize for me you know

1:28:51your concern around the framework and the data validation if you can speak to the data points

1:28:58I wrote down you know funding outcomes and so on if you can kind of give me those validation

1:29:04points that would be helpful okay the vet just to clarify so that I do answer your question so the

1:29:09process around the data valid is that your question yes that's correct thank you um yes

1:29:15homewood is concerned we are the schedule one facility for the region and we were not consulted

1:29:21post submission of our inventory of services um we were not part of the surveys that were

1:29:29taken with the community partners nor were we involved as a key identified resource in the

1:29:35data validation process the the mention of the three meetings with the three individuals completing

1:29:39that process as the schedule one facility for the region we would have hoped we would have been

1:29:44consulted in that area thank you uh or rork and then goller thank you margaret through you to

1:29:53miss miss gibson first of all thank you to the homewood um for being in the city for the services

1:30:00you provide and the employment uh and uh and your presence here it's significant um I want to ask

1:30:08you just about the last sentence and then I want to ask you about some little details

1:30:12would it be sufficient so we were likely to receive the report uh because without doing that

1:30:19staff can't go and do additional work on that report if we don't receive it right

1:30:25so would it be sufficient to then either direct staff to sit down with the homewood and

1:30:31my guess is gulf general because we're talking about systems that involve like all of healthcare

1:30:36all of mental health and addictions um would it be sufficient to sit down with the review

1:30:43of with homewood with gulf general to validate or and to provide perhaps a second um a second

1:30:50version that would inform I'm I'm concerned about just not accepting the report um so short of that

1:30:58what would be an acceptable and appropriate process thank you thank you for your question

1:31:05we would welcome that uh we do work in close collaboration with ggh and a number of partners

1:31:10across the region um I think in reading through the report and we appreciate and understand that

1:31:16the report includes opinion um and uh and comes from a variety of of different players so we can

1:31:22appreciate that um but the tone of the report was very much um anti-collaborative it seemed as though

1:31:28from homewood and that's not our practice um I don't believe it's really the experience of the

1:31:32community partners I think you could get lots of feedback that would let you know otherwise

1:31:36and so we would be interested in having more conversation around that and being able to

1:31:41better encapsulating and capture the collaboration that we do have across the the region thank you

1:31:47three umar guthrey just um two other questions and for one is just to clarify some of the

1:31:53comments in the report so there's a few times references to there are no post discharge plans

1:32:01you can't speak for the hospital you can't speak for other treatment centers I'm just wondering

1:32:07um what what is that what does the discharge plan look like at the homewood just so that you

1:32:13have a chance to educate us and to clarify anything that might be in the report thank you

1:32:19thanks for the question I will remind everybody I'm an accountant and not a clinician so I'm

1:32:23going to disclaim that to that disclaimer friend um we do have discharge planning and we do have a

1:32:29number of programs that operate out of the hospital age so I did mention in my delegation

1:32:35that we have MAFIS which is the mental health I wish we get the full name mental health and

1:32:41addiction emergency follow-up services which is a mouthful but that is a two to four week program

1:32:46for 18 plus adults leaving the hospital to to allow them time and support in order to get connected

1:32:51to community services we also have such supports as trans care and support coordination that is

1:32:58offered through homewood and in our outpatient services which is also mentioned briefly in the

1:33:03report is our our act services for it to spread in the community so there are a number of different

1:33:08models great thank you my last question marigat three three you to miss kipson um I know that

1:33:14homewood is separate from homewood research institute um but I look for empirical research

1:33:23as much as I can does hri have any information on models that are working well to integrate mental

1:33:31health addictions homelessness do we have empirical evidence just to layer on right so this gives us a

1:33:38good snapshot of of the feelings in the community of the the the services that are provided by the

1:33:45respondents does hri have research that would help us layer that on because we're gonna have to

1:33:51prioritize right um this whole systems change is is not going to come driven by the city of gulf

1:33:59um we can help and we can lead in that space but man I mean I I'm not sure how we're gonna

1:34:05accomplish some of this stuff does hri have any research that uh that points to some helpful models

1:34:13um I can't speak directly to their research uh we do uh work closely with them uh you're right

1:34:19we're not we're not connected but we we do work very closely we are connected in that way that we

1:34:23work pretty closely together um uh I would say probably the best bet would be to get in touch

1:34:29with Dr. Sid Kennedy who is the executive director there and inquire about that I don't know the

1:34:34specifics of the research that may um specifically apply to this um but I can say that it wouldn't

1:34:39surprise me if they did have something or had suggestions on how they could assist with that

1:34:43great thank you thank you councillor Goller thank you through your worship um thank you Ms. Gibson

1:34:51for your your presentation um there was a lot of information there uh would you mind sharing that

1:34:58information with with council so that we can have that written out as we move forward with this

1:35:03I'd be happy to do that yes okay thank you that that that would be helpful um and and so that I

1:35:09would just wanted to to go back to two points that you mentioned you mentioned that you're present

1:35:14in the in the hospital to to provide assistance and um did I hear that correctly the the work

1:35:20that you do in the hospital is at no cost to the patients that's correct so we offer 24-7

1:35:26psychiatric care to uh patient um presenting at the emergency department as well as a clinical

1:35:33liaison service for any patient in GGH so if if it's determined that through their care they

1:35:38require a psychiatric consultation then we do have a psychiatrist that can provide that and that of

1:35:43course is all at no cost to the patients including also our short stay assessment unit which is four

1:35:49beds um for an assessment for patients requiring that and our MAFIS program okay okay thank you for

1:35:55that and you mentioned that there were the the five ward beds could you just verify what does

1:36:02ward mean um so ward in this case what I'm speaking to is without the requirement for um the individual

1:36:09to either supplement through self-pay or through our insurance to pay that accommodation piece

1:36:14and we do have the 58 critical beds too on top of the 246 specialized services and those are

1:36:22through our critical service and those are at no cost okay okay and could you help me understand

1:36:27what is the limiting factor to to have more of those um beds that are at no cost to the patient

1:36:34it really does come down to funding uh you know we do receive like I said 34 million dollars for

1:36:40all Ontarians um from the Ministry of Health but certainly more funding would allow us to look at

1:36:45better allocation of those services providing additional services okay okay thank you very

1:36:50much I really appreciate you coming here thank you thank you worship thank you uh Councillor

1:36:55Caighton please thank you Mr. Mayor through you to the delegate um I'm hoping as an accountant you

1:37:03probably will have this information um is there a breakdown of the privately funded versus publicly

1:37:08funded treatment populations at homeward um so we don't have the privately publicly funded I can

1:37:16explain a little further by explaining funding so our funding is global based funding uh for a

1:37:21number of patient days so it doesn't split neatly and I know that's that's usually where people want

1:37:26to go to better understand um but we do receive uh 37 percent approximately of our total operating

1:37:34budget for expenditures uh comes from the Ministry of Health and what we provide back to them is uh

1:37:40typically about 85 percent of our patient days so we're contracted for that piece with the funding

1:37:45so it's not it's it's a difficult question to answer as a split did I I know I probably didn't

1:37:50answer do you want to just clarify or re-ask your question uh Councillor Caighton? Yeah so what I'm

1:37:56trying to get is is that how many patients percentage-wise would be publicly funded

1:38:03kind of covered by OHIP versus privately funded typically? Yeah so the way I can explain it is

1:38:11this is that all Ontario patients coming in are partially funded I know that's a difficult way to

1:38:17look at it but they're partially funded so it's uh very similar to if I um presented at the GGH and

1:38:23needed to stay overnight my treatment and care is funded and is paid for but if I wanted to upgrade

1:38:31to a semi-private room then I need to pay for that so it's a very similar model on the

1:38:35accommodation revenue that the public hospitals have. Thank you I'm just trying to clarify in my

1:38:41head how like what would we would ask for to the province if we were trying to get more folks in

1:38:46and that sort of thing thank you very much. Thank you. Uh Caron and then Alt.

1:38:52Thank you Mr. Mayor um your uh home would serve youth under the age of 18 is that correct?

1:39:01Not typically no we're mostly an adult treatment facility but we do have our eating program where

1:39:07I believe the patients can be young as six that is the exception. Okay great thanks just wanted to

1:39:13clarify that. Thank you Councillor Caron and to Councillor Allt. Thank you very much Mayor Guthrie

1:39:20thank you Ms. Gibson. I just want to follow up on what Councillor Caton had asked.

1:39:27It strikes me that what I'm hearing you say through what your presentation was and your

1:39:32answer to Councillor Caton is that when we're dealing with substance use and dependency the

1:39:37barrier to service provision support and remediation and and outpatient support is money

1:39:46coming from the province or the private sector is that correct?

1:39:50For funding coming from the province uh yes we're currently uh advocating to all levels of

1:39:56government multiple layers for additional funding so that we can look at what additional services

1:40:02we could provide depending on what that funding would be. Thank you would you have any possible

1:40:08estimate of what kind of funding you need beyond what you currently receive from from the province

1:40:14for what you had mentioned as province-wide support in order to to determine what would be

1:40:20effective for local local support? That is a really tough question to answer again because we're

1:40:28funded on a global-based funding model for all Ontarians so to narrow it to local would be difficult

1:40:37because it really is provincial or all Ontario funding. I don't have an exact number no but the

1:40:44number is sizable you know I'm sure that's the answer for for most agencies but the number would

1:40:51be sizable to add adequate services that would that would less less there would be a less of a

1:40:59requirement for that semi-private and private accommodation revenue to offset the the lack of

1:41:04funding that we get in order to provide the full array of services that we provide at home would.

1:41:10Thank you in fact you took the words right out of the mouth I was just going to say it's a lot of

1:41:13money but thank you very much. Thank you. Councillor Richardson. Through you chair to Ms. Gibson

1:41:25can you give me some information on the wait times that are happening if people are going to the

1:41:31Guelph General maybe in crisis with an addiction or a substance use not necessarily deemed a risk to

1:41:37themselves or others is there a lengthy wait time for them to go in in crisis to when they can

1:41:43actually be admitted for treatment? If it's determined and this is I will preface this again

1:41:50by saying I'm the accountant and not the clinician I'm not familiar with exact wait times. My best

1:41:57understanding of the mHOS and the specifically the short stay beds that we run over at the GD

1:42:03is that if somebody does present in crisis and they need to be transferred to a schedule one

1:42:09facility that that's done quite quickly during their stay at the SSAU and then they are moved over

1:42:16to our our Trillium Crisis Unit. But there is there you know I'm hearing that there's a lot of people

1:42:24that not are necessarily meeting the criteria for those short stay beds but still you know in

1:42:30significant need of treatment and willing to get treatment but there's an extensive wait time

1:42:35where they seem to fall through the cracks because there's no direct route from you know admission

1:42:40to you know at Guelph General Hospital into a treatment program. There seems to be I'm hesitant

1:42:50to answer only because I can't give specifics on that particularly around the wait times. I know we

1:42:56do have a number of different referral avenues into our intake services and we do have a wait list

1:43:01depending on the program but I would not want to give you incorrect information on what those

1:43:06wait times look like. Yeah fair enough and maybe that information can come later but thank you very

1:43:10much. Thank you. Okay thank you I don't see any other questions except you get you get me

1:43:20for a couple questions so I thank you first of all for coming and delegating and you know I think

1:43:29I think your presentation to me was was validated I think there was concerns even when I read it

1:43:37as well just around some of the outcomes that were presented originally. Now I say the word

1:43:42originally because I know there was extensive kind of work between sort of last week and

1:43:50and over the weekend I think from like staff and the consultants that were there

1:43:59to sort of make edits and some changes and some and some amendments to the original sort of

1:44:05outcomes that were presented and they're all publicly here so I just wondered your thoughts

1:44:14about the fact that there was there was some work that took place to amend and to edit.

1:44:22Are you satisfied at least with those but still have a question with like some or was

1:44:30or is the position of sort of the homewood even with those edits still of a position of

1:44:38needing further dialogue needing further engagement on it moving forward. I hope I hope I'm making

1:44:45myself clear. Yes thank you for your question and I do appreciate the time and efforts of city staff

1:44:51and collective results spending time with us to hear our concerns and incorporate some changes.

1:44:57Our concern and part of the reason why I'm here tonight too is because we can't be sure who read

1:45:03the original report who read the revised report and want to make sure that if only if the only

1:45:09read was the original report that we had an opportunity to clarify for the community members of

1:45:14council and all stakeholders the facts so that we're clear on that. I would and the homewood would

1:45:22appreciate the opportunity to work further. The revised report did have some significant changes

1:45:29most notably the update to the funding and the revisions around private psychiatric services

1:45:36which we don't have for Ontarians in homewood but we would be definitely appreciative of more time

1:45:44to work together and have more conversations and one of the biggest parts that I did mention

1:45:51earlier was around the collaboration. We're heavily involved in the community we are very

1:45:55collaborative and we do have great relationships with the partners in the community and wouldn't

1:46:01want that to be impacted by the report sort of commenting otherwise albeit sometimes and I

1:46:07recognize from opinion rather than others. Thank you. I mean in a way I didn't mean to do this but

1:46:16in your answer you sort of helped me a little bit I guess is that I mean the way I posed my

1:46:22question was a little bit on purpose because I think it was important to get that out in the public

1:46:27realm and then your answer was like and I'm kind of here to kind of you know also get out in the

1:46:32public realm that these edits existed these changes were made and significant changes as well

1:46:39and to also acknowledge what you did and I did in my questioning and you did in your answer to the

1:46:43work that they did change things to make sure it reflected the right data the right metrics the

1:46:48right facts. So I think that there's a lot of language within the report that talks about next

1:46:58about overall system collaboration you've certainly said that here tonight which

1:47:04by the way I would not only validate it here with what you're saying personally I would validate it

1:47:10from what I've heard across the community for many years as well that there is collaboration.

1:47:15So if there are next steps whatever that looks like again you are very willing the home

1:47:21one is very willing to be at that table. Definitely. Thank you that's good for everyone to hear.

1:47:28Thank you there's no more questions and I do really appreciate you waiting until

1:47:32you're our last delegation so thank you very much. Of course thank you. Yeah okay council just one

1:47:38second he's got to confer with the clerk for a moment. Okay everyone I'm just trying to manage the

1:48:31flow of our agenda tonight also respecting that everyone needs to also make sure that we're

1:48:41aligned with a proper break as well and looking at the rest of the schedule ahead of us. So

1:48:49yeah I'm going to make a call right now that we are going to take a we are going to take a

1:49:0125 minute break right now and we are going to come back here for about 20 after seven

1:49:11just after after that time and then we can go into questions after the presentation and or

1:49:20I'll talk to staff as well to make sure we we honor the time frame for the county to do their

1:49:25presentation as well and so that I'm sorry no I'm not going to actually ask for the receiving

1:49:37of the report at this time until we finish off questions about it and or any other discussions

1:49:43in camera I'm going to save that motion to be tabled until we're kind of done through the whole

1:49:48evening we've collected all the information we need to do and then we can table the receiving of

1:49:52the report for council consideration then so we're just going to take a break right now as I said

1:49:57and we're going to come back just about almost at 20 after and and thank you for the patience everyone

1:50:04and so we'll see you soon this is the one minute warning everybody one minute until we start okay

2:21:08everyone I'm going to call the meeting back to order and thank you very much and just so everyone

2:21:14knows the flow here for the rest of the evening a little bit is going to be we're going to go back

2:21:21to questions from council now to the consultants because they finished their presentation so we

2:21:28need a chance there if we have any follow-up questions to the consultants or to staff I guess

2:21:33about that as well obviously after that we're going to move directly to

2:21:43the county presentation and any questions in the open session here about that presentation

2:21:51then we do have a closed portion and then it's after all of that that we can come back out and

2:21:58and look to maybe receive the report if that's the will of council and anything else yes councillor

2:22:04goer your worship do we tape do we move the motion to receive the report before we start

2:22:10asking questions no no tonight I'm going to wait until we get all the information and then we can

2:22:16do it okay okay so let's see here I did have a list I think started earlier goer I think I had you

2:22:25first yep and then after that I didn't have anybody else we'll go Koran second

2:22:33and then I'll move over here we'll go we'll go one two three we'll go boost until downer then

2:22:39or arc and then I'll keep looking on the screens for anybody else if necessary so that's the order

2:22:44for now go go ahead councillor Goller I saw councillor caton sand there too so I'll put your your name

2:22:51down there as well thank you and through your worship my first question is to to both staff and

2:22:58consultants based on some of the feedback that we got from some of the participants about some of the

2:23:06changes that were made or that needed to be made and as I understand it there was work

2:23:11worked on over the weekend however when I looked at the agenda the revised agenda I didn't see a

2:23:15revised report so if I could just have clarity is there anywhere that we can see the old report

2:23:21or is only the new report available online so through the mayor to councillor Goller only the

2:23:26new report is available and that was specifically in response to the homewood because they were

2:23:31concerned that if the previous report stayed live that that data would live on and that somebody

2:23:36could inadvertently open the old report so we don't generally ever do that from a procedural

2:23:42point of view because of obviously concerns related to we want to be as open and transparent as

2:23:47possible what we did do is provided a memo to show exactly all of the changes that were made

2:23:52so that anybody who had read the previous report can see exactly what was changed and so and I will

2:23:57acknowledge the team from collective results we spent considerable time meeting with the

2:24:01homewood last week and then the collective results team did a lot of work to get the report updated

2:24:06to address the concerns that the homewood had raised with us perfect well thank you for that

2:24:10clarification and for the time that you spent over the last week including the weekend to work

2:24:15on that I wanted to to also thank you for as as mr. Keegan said this is a monumental amount of work

2:24:25and it was very extensive but also insufficient we almost said fix the biggest problem that is

2:24:29facing our province today and give us a local solution so thank you for that and I appreciate

2:24:36that the recommendations were broken down I think the second set of recommendations with housing

2:24:42it's clear the city can do this the city can do that I have questions about the cool recommendations

2:24:49that are saying advocate for this at the province advocate for for this at the federal level

2:24:56do we have evidence that that that work would actually get let us gain ground I'm concerned

2:25:04that we're going to spend potentially give direction for staff to spend a significant

2:25:08amount of time advocating and it may not come to anything so so that's one concern that I have in

2:25:15terms of the system level recommendations through the mayor to councillor goller certainly I think

2:25:23and you'll see this as part of the report that you're about to receive next as well advocacy as

2:25:29part of the system is important and you know we have through the service providers and through

2:25:34the work that collective results has done a really good understanding of the challenges facing wealth

2:25:38and if nothing else these advocacy opportunities give us a really good opportunity to explain to

2:25:43folks at other levels of government really what the on the ground need and situation is here I think

2:25:48part of the recommendation before you and some of what staff will take away is a more comprehensive

2:25:52advocacy strategy that involves our partners and certainly the county as we look to solve some of

2:25:58these the issues that have been identified okay thank you for that and my my next question is about

2:26:06the next step so we have we have the report here today we have it for receipt I've heard some of

2:26:12the delegates mentioned in October meeting but I didn't see that in the in the staff report so

2:26:17could you give us an outline off if we receive this today what happens next sure through our

2:26:25got through to Councillor Goller and apologies it wasn't clear in the staff report it was

2:26:29conveyed back at the July housing workshop meeting as part of that that that was in essence a two

2:26:34part so we did the July housing workshop meeting where we gave an overview of the continuum and

2:26:39then really focused the attention on the right hand side of the continuum and then tonight

2:26:43we're bringing you sort of three agenda items that focus on the left hand side of the continuum

2:26:48that will all be coalesced into what you are then considering on October the 17th so there's still a

2:26:54number of things owed back to you as council coming out of the July workshop that you need to

2:26:58consider so we don't want to lose sight of that and I know Jane and her team and others are working

2:27:03very hard on that but then coming out of tonight we will take any sort of feedback and direction

2:27:09and then we will work with the recommendations we in essence say thank you to the collective results

2:27:14team tonight they will have completed what they were hired to do and then we will take their report

2:27:21obviously as well as what you're going to be hearing from the county and then that will be

2:27:25coalesced into a report into a report and probably some recommendations that we will bring back we

2:27:30may bring back verbatim recommendations that collective results has suggested we may reword

2:27:35them we may recommend that some go faster slower that's going to be based on some of the and

2:27:41stay for feedback that we for as well okay okay so so too thank you very much for that and and

2:27:47one of the things that I was looking to do today is move all of the recommendations said

2:27:52we've spent the last year working on this we we've had tangible recommendations on how council

2:28:01should or could move forward and just to be clear the reason staff is not recommending that we

2:28:09table those today as motions is because they're coming back after you've had a chance to review it

2:28:13through the mayor that's correct we also think you need to hear from the county next because

2:28:17that may also inform what direction you give to staff but we do also want to be able to

2:28:23reflect some of the feedback we've heard from the the stakeholders and respectfully collective

2:28:27results has done phenomenal work but there may be recommendations in there that we as staff need

2:28:32to say to you that's not achievable or we think that needs to be worded differently so we need

2:28:37the time to come back to you on that a step okay thank you thank you very much for that

2:28:43my next question is for collective results thank you both for for being here and and for all the

2:28:48work you've done who's getting it right I mean I know that this is a kind of the white problem

2:28:55and but is there and I I didn't see in the report that you said you know this city in Alberta or

2:29:00this city in New Brunswick is there anyone that we can look at and say these folks are effectively

2:29:06managing the the problem that we're dealing with here today through Marigatary to the

2:29:14Councillor as we were doing the system-wide scan and conducting key informant interviews with

2:29:20individuals across the province in fact many of them were looking to see what came from this to

2:29:27help inform their path forward as well one of the key themes within our findings was that

2:29:34what we're experiencing here in Guelph is not unique to Guelph the challenges around funding

2:29:40the challenges around the systems being fragmented and also the challenges with the situation

2:29:47seemingly being worse as we're emerging from the pandemic and so to answer your question

2:29:54there did not appear to be sort of you know a perfect solution to all of those identified issues

2:30:01which is why you see a suite of recommendations before you this evening as a potential way to

2:30:07approach this within Guelph. Thank you thank you very much I really appreciate it I did have

2:30:18more specific question there was mention of another community that was working

2:30:21public health unit to to to look at this at a system level are you at liberty to tell us

2:30:29which community that is and and what they have done with their public health unit?

2:30:37Through Marigatary to the Councillor the specific community I can't actually remember what it is

2:30:44right now but what I can say is through the system-wide scan it was identified that in some cases

2:30:51municipalities are working closely with their public health units to develop evaluation strategies

2:30:59for homeless for sorry for programs to support individuals experiencing homelessness so

2:31:06it does provide an interesting opportunity for collaboration given the mandate of public health

2:31:12to do work in health equity and also the work that they can do in evidence-informed planning

2:31:17and so we brought it forward in the report as a potential opportunity for collaboration.

2:31:22Okay thank you very much and is that information that then maybe are we able to follow up with you

2:31:28to get those those details and okay okay thank you very much for that your worship thank you great

2:31:35thank you and I appreciate you just getting right to your questions you have set the standard now

2:31:43those for the rest of the evening so thank you our Councillor Caron and Bouchotil is next

2:31:48great thank you to the consultants one of the first things I heard in your intro remarks and

2:31:55great body of work so this is any any comments that I make any questions that I have are not

2:32:01criticisms was the exclusion of youth under the age of 18 but we know that youth homelessness is

2:32:07rising and we know that a youth goes from being 18 to 19 within 24 hours so I'm just

2:32:16going to give you could provide a little bit more context of where the youth homelessness

2:32:21issues that our community is facing fall into the work that you've done and whether we may see

2:32:30more recommendations specifically addressing that demographic because we know that a homeless youth

2:32:37is more likely to become a homeless adult. So through the mayor to Councillor Caron I'm just

2:32:44going to jump in here and I'll let the collective results team comment further but I just want to

2:32:47clarify that youth was out of scope for this work not to suggest that we didn't recognize that it is

2:32:53a significant issue but we had to pick a sort of scope for the work that they did and so they

2:32:59have not been asked to come back to us with further scoping down into the youth sector although we

2:33:04certainly know I believe that some of the stakeholder feedback and data that they received

2:33:09likely encapsulated youth services but we did I believe pick I'm trying to remember 16 plus 18

2:33:16plus as the age range for the work that collective results is doing but maybe I'll turn it to

2:33:21Liz or Brianna see if they want to comment further through Mayor Guthrie to the Councillor

2:33:28that that is correct that youth were out of scope for our research study however we did include so

2:33:35services that were focused exclusively on youth were out of scope services that sort of spanned

2:33:42that broader youth category including youth you know sometimes there are services that go until

2:33:47the age of 24 were included within our inventory of services so for example services provided by

2:33:54Wyndham House as an example however throughout the remainder of our consultations that would include

2:34:00the survey and the interviews we were focused specifically on services for adults in the community

2:34:07experiencing homelessness and for that reason I don't have anything else to add to that I'm sorry

2:34:13okay I'm just I'm just trying to figure out how that that part is going to come into our

2:34:19conversations with the county so Colleen I'm assuming that that will be separate from the

2:34:25work that's being presented tonight and it'll come up in a different dimension

2:34:33through the mayor to Councillor Caron certainly there's a number of aspects and complexities to

2:34:38this that this work didn't cover and I suppose we might be looking to council to see if there's

2:34:43further direction you want to give us on what else you want us to look at I would say you know

2:34:48additionally we know for example there's correspondence in the package regarding that that we didn't

2:34:53look at specific brain injuries and how that impacts people living in homelessness so I know

2:34:57there's a number of factors that this work didn't include and so I I think what I'm saying is if

2:35:03council is looking for us to do further research or study on this we would probably looking for you

2:35:08to give us that direction okay great um second question is um I really appreciate the identification

2:35:16of advocacy as a key component in our strategy um most of the recommendations seem to be about what

2:35:24Guelph can do but we do a lot of our advocacy through FCM through AMO through the chamber

2:35:31through we we have a number of partners that we and especially other municipalities that we um

2:35:37we joined together and I just uh I didn't see any specific recommendation that directed us to work

2:35:45with AMO and FCM and perhaps I've missed something there through America 3 to Councillor Caron

2:35:53appreciate that you've noticed that gap that for example is one of the things that staff may take

2:35:57away over the next month and uh add to enhance the recommendations to be uh to fit our context a

2:36:03bit more for example the Ontario big city mayors have been advocating for a model that looks a lot

2:36:08like the london model that appears in this report so there'd certainly be synergies amongst the big

2:36:13city mayors to advocate for that kind of model for for all big cities and their membership

2:36:24sorry unmute my final question thank you for that answer because I think that's that we'll get a lot

2:36:29of bang for a buck with with larger larger advocacy um my third question I wanted to give

2:36:37the consultants or staff an opportunity to respond to the homewood delegation

2:36:41asking us not to forward this for or not to approve this I just just wanted to give you

2:36:49an opportunity to respond to that through the mayor to Councillor Caron that was certainly not

2:36:54what we were expecting to hear tonight and I think um I would certainly echo the comments that were

2:37:00made if this report isn't received we're only seeking counsel receipt of this report so that you

2:37:05can then um send us off to do the work that we need to do before october 17th and so I would

2:37:12suggest not receiving the report tonight would be problematic because then that would in essence

2:37:17bring this work to a stop um considerable amount of work uh went in uh last week to correct um the

2:37:25the issues that they identified and so well I absolutely understand and appreciate that they

2:37:30wanted to make sure that that was noted that the previous version of the report um uh was

2:37:35incorrect um that previous version of the report doesn't exist anymore and so we have made those

2:37:41edits and and made that update so I would certainly hope that council still considers

2:37:46receiving this report uh this evening so that we can on our journey uh to the october 17th meeting

2:37:53thank you thank you councillor Caron councillor Busuttil then councillor downer

2:38:00thank you very much this question is for the consultants thank you for the report um I just

2:38:05had one question I was a little bit confused on the first recommendation in the housing

2:38:10focus recommendation number one um and the rationale speaks to on page seven it talks about

2:38:16confusion of the um partners in the community which to me speaks about communication on that side of

2:38:24of the continuance how we communicate how we inform and yet the recommendation just to me is

2:38:30the other extreme of review of governance which is a deeper look at our roles and you know legislation

2:38:37and so on so I was a little bit confused around what you heard from the community which was confusion

2:38:42around this which is communication versus okay governance reviews are are quite in depth and

2:38:50complicated and what the intent was there is a communication or is the purpose to change our role

2:38:58and the outcome if you can just clarify that because it didn't quite connect from through mayor

2:39:04guthrie to the councillor um so in terms of the data and what we heard um with the um sorry excuse

2:39:16me for a second that confusion um there definitely is as a piece of that happening in the community

2:39:22for the roles on the left side of the housing continuum so it's not necessarily the communication

2:39:26but it seems like even in council chambers we heard there's some confusion about what your role is

2:39:34so having that clarification through that recommendation to actually say this is your role

2:39:39as the city and that left side of the housing continuum providing that clarity will help you

2:39:46then make um some informed decisions about any type of funding uh requests that come forward to you at

2:39:51council um and so on and so forth so that was really the stem of that and also we heard through

2:39:58the data um through community partners that they really felt that a lot of that confusion was due

2:40:04to an ineffective governance structure so that's why we um specifically talked about the governance

2:40:09structure being revisited thank you so you've talked about both again clarity of role even here

2:40:17in council which is communication versus what I think you're saying is you heard in the community

2:40:23that there is um confusion around the governance role or an ineffective governance role and I guess

2:40:30I'm I'm trying to ask uh is that from the community partners that they feel that there is an ineffective

2:40:38governance is that correct yes okay thank you uh we'll go to Downer and then I'll work thank you

2:40:51through you mr. mayor too I guess the consultants and maybe staff want to comment too but

2:40:58there's sort of a question around some of the next steps you've given us a number of recommendations

2:41:04appreciate the work that's been done um and the importance that the thread through all of it is this

2:41:10collaborative and systems level planning that needs to be done in the city of Guelph right so creating a

2:41:17plan so it it almost feels like you know a bit like a chicken and egg thing and I look at you know

2:41:23you've looked at the London model of how they got to where they are and and they did a housing and

2:41:29homelessness summit uh invited 200 stakeholders social service workers but you know there was

2:41:38businesses from their downtown there was academics like from the university and and then they they

2:41:45created out of three days I think it was over two months they had three days and they created a plan

2:41:52this this integrated uh collaborative system level plan that they're now working on implementing

2:42:01and they're going out to the public with the implementation plan is is that a good next have

2:42:07you in your opinion is that would that be a good next step for us beyond rather than I mean there's

2:42:12all these recommendations we need to implement we want to implement but is it best done in the

2:42:19context of creating a plan and bringing those recommendations um to that type of a summit

2:42:26and seeing what else because there's a lot of partners here that we have to work with in order to

2:42:30achieve any of this a lot of stakeholders um and creating and and as that's sort of the first exercise

2:42:37in creating a more collaborative um integrated system which is what the people you interviewed

2:42:45the stakeholders you interviewed wanted they wanted more collaboration they were doing networking

2:42:51but they wanted more collaboration and and it's more of an integrated um model here in Guelph

2:42:59would that be a a good next step um coming out of this

2:43:05so I think we've agreed I'll start and then I'll pass it along um and so through the mayor um certainly

2:43:10there that was there was success with that in London I think what we would want to there's a

2:43:15reason tonight that this was paired with the county's housing and homelessness plan because I think

2:43:19that second piece is really really key um because the county is our service provider um for housing

2:43:24and homelessness issues through being our CMSM um and so it would be important um to have that

2:43:32conversation with the county about how they might see that moving forward and in fact leading that

2:43:38um and then we would also need to look at the other partners like the Guelph and Wellington Ontario

2:43:41health team for example um there's a number of stakeholders beyond the city as municipality

2:43:47who I think would need to be part of that but I guess my starting point would be simply say that we

2:43:52would want to um after you have a chance to hear from the county tonight on their housing and

2:43:55homelessness plan then have a discussion with the county on what that might look like um as

2:44:01they are our service provider yeah so my thought that it would be a partnership between the city

2:44:06and the county and maybe the answer and so certainly through the mayor I think we would

2:44:11want to have that conversation with them but we would certainly look to the county to provide us

2:44:16that expertise and leadership on that but I'll turn to my right to see if anybody else wants to

2:44:20comment anything further nope looks like we're good okay thank you uh O'Rourke and Kate thank you

2:44:31very much Nurgathri um through you to staff so the staff report we got in July said that it's

2:44:38provincial legislation that determines the number of non-market units that can be built

2:44:43and that has not been updated since 2011 um so why in the advocacy piece not also advocate for

2:44:51additional number of non-market units and an increase to ODSP and an increase to Ontario

2:44:57works like when we do the ask is it the intent to include those as well from the revenue side when

2:45:03everyone clearly acknowledges people can't survive on those support programs through the

2:45:08mayor to council work that's a great question the work that we uh we hired collective results to do

2:45:13really focused simply on the homelessness end of the spectrum and so we did not ask them to do work

2:45:19into the affordable housing um uh social I would suggest sort of more the social housing um realm

2:45:25that you're talking about I think you're going to probably hear some of that and maybe the next

2:45:28presentation from the county and certainly we recognize we need to address the full continuum

2:45:33we uh the direction from council was simply that we were to do the study on the homelessness

2:45:38piece and so we really only had collective results look at the homelessness end of the spectrum

2:45:44just into emergency shelters um and so that the divide in terms of the work that they were doing

2:45:50that stopped there and so it's not in their report in terms of recommendations but that

2:45:54doesn't mean that we don't absolutely agree with you that that also needs to be recommendations

2:45:59that are brought forward yeah that through you America the report talks about a lot of people

2:46:03on the cusp right and so we need to be thinking about those folks as well um through you America

2:46:10three just a real technical question can you help me understand um the perception or the belief that

2:46:17there aren't a lot of low barrier spaces I know you're thinking of the hub model or the grove model

2:46:23but you know we've got chalmers royal city hope house community health center all of them

2:46:27downtown so how are those not uh sufficient what's missing from that through America three to the

2:46:38counselor um absolutely there are some great services available within the community for

2:46:45people experiencing homelessness one of the elements that stood out um for the grove model

2:46:51was that it was all under one roof and so right now there are a lot of those services

2:46:56in the community but you have to go from the community health center to royal city mission

2:47:02perhaps to the library and and move around to get that suite of services and another part of that

2:47:08hub model is um just low barrier daytime space to even just for recreation um and and just to

2:47:16sort of have that under one roof is a model that stood out to us which is why we mentioned that

2:47:23within the report okay thanks uh through America three um to staff what are the next steps now will

2:47:33will all the agencies identified and some of the recommendations have an opportunity to

2:47:39to comment for example public health or the chamber sort of more formally than tonight

2:47:44because I'm thinking we also want to focus our attention to do what will work right and so

2:47:52how how did those organizations come into this process before you come back with recommendation

2:47:58the partners need to be willing right so through the mayor to counsel it was an interesting

2:48:03challenge and one that we grappled with a bit with the collective results team because their

2:48:08preferred process would have been to do a lot of that stakeholder validation themselves

2:48:12earlier on in the process but we work in an environment where we don't publicly share reports

2:48:16that we haven't shared with council yet and so we wanted to be respectful of not broadly sharing

2:48:22a report publicly that you hadn't had a chance to and so um I think it was mentioned there were um three

2:48:30I forget what peer um peer validators um we've kept their names confidential because we asked them

2:48:35to sign a confidential that there were three peers from each of the sector um one from each sector

2:48:41who helped to validate obviously within their own scope and then Jodi and I hosted a stakeholder

2:48:47session last thursday um that I think Miss Shianni mentioned um and for example public health I think

2:48:53had five reps who came um and provided us feedback on the report um a number of other I think there

2:48:59were 30 or 40 people in the room um who gave us great feedback we tried to encapsulate that in

2:49:05the memo that's attached but obviously fairly high level um I think one of our challenges is

2:49:10October 17th very soon um and our report deadlines are very quick so absolutely hearing the desire

2:49:17from the community and and respecting that desire for lots more connection time we also have a very

2:49:23short runway to bring something back to you for October 17th so we are going to to a certain degree

2:49:28also have to rely on the public processes October 17th will be a public meeting there will be

2:49:34opportunities for people again to provide their feedback through that public process if we aren't

2:49:40able to in the time that we have do a fulsome round of stakeholder engagement like we might

2:49:46desire to do but we just simply aren't going to have time to. Thanks Amirgha through my last

2:49:50question through you to staff uh actually to the folks from Collector Result I was really hoping

2:49:55the report was going to say here's a list of things you can do but these are really the most

2:50:00critical impactful things you can do so I was really looking for not a magic bullet we know one

2:50:06doesn't exist but there's going to be limited capacity even for the advocacy piece right and

2:50:13there's going to be limited resources to try and fix this intractable problem so if I were to ask you

2:50:20to go to 10,000 feet and and to prioritize what do you think are the key leverage points in this

2:50:27report? Through Amirgha through you to councillor thank you for that question um and we absolutely

2:50:38appreciate that question it's this is very complex and lots of moving pieces and we were

2:50:45anticipating the question around you know where is the best place to start um we think there's two

2:50:52recommendations that we wanted to draw your attention to so the first one is system recommendation

2:50:58one around a human rights-based approach to housing um as we were conducting the system

2:51:04wide skin this really did emerge as an opportunity to become more informed and place the rights of

2:51:14individuals experiencing homelessness really as the central focus for planning and decision making

2:51:23we really see that it has the potential to really shift the way these very difficult situations

2:51:31can be approached with the community so for example um while it didn't come up within our

2:51:37consultations the issue of an encampments is a really interesting one to consider where individuals

2:51:44are likely coming to council with questions or looking um for the city to determine how to move

2:51:51forward around encampments and so taking a human rights-based approach to housing can really help

2:51:57to inform your approach to um that type of situation within the community and really placing the

2:52:05rights of those individuals as central to that decision making and it's something that the city

2:52:11can do even though you are not the CMSM for housing and so by equipping city councillors and city staff

2:52:17with education around what that means how you can implement that how you can use that to inform

2:52:24your decision making we felt that that was a really powerful recommendation worth city

2:52:30consideration as you take this away and I'll just pass it to Brienne to speak to the second one.

2:52:36Thank you. The second one that builds off of what Liz was just saying is using that house

2:52:44rights-based approach to housing as your foundation for discussing housing recommendation one

2:52:51so really using that as a foundation for clarity around your role and accountability

2:52:56with the county and building that trusting and transparent relationship between the

2:53:01entities um this also addresses that greater need for collaboration communication coordination

2:53:08clarity regarding those roles and responsibility um that was identified as an area of growth for

2:53:14the city and the county through the study. I really appreciate that thank you. Welcome.

2:53:21Thanks councillor roark. Kate and then alts and then I see you after all.

2:53:28You to staff and the consultants so I just I noticed and this is not a criticism because we

2:53:33basically asked you to solve homelessness over summer so this was a huge amount of work in a

2:53:38big big report but I noticed that it was missing specific disability barriers to services shelters

2:53:44and missing funding for accessibility upgrades and accessible products and there was no

2:53:48recommendations specific for accessibility improvements but I'm hearing this is a living

2:53:54document and there's time for that to be added is that planned for the next meeting? So through the

2:54:04mayor um to councillor Caton it wasn't something that I think was necessarily in scope for what we

2:54:09asked collective results to do I don't know whether you have any comment on whether you heard it from

2:54:13any stakeholders um and I may uh I'm sensing that it wasn't something that you specifically heard

2:54:19okay so um uh Liz and Brianna have indicated that it wasn't something that they heard doing there

2:54:24during their stakeholder interview um and it wasn't something that we specifically in the frame of

2:54:29terms of reference um asked but we can certainly take that feedback away um and sort of compile it

2:54:35with everything that we're hearing tonight to consider what to bring forward in October.

2:54:40Thanks no I understand like with in this number of people there's a percentage wise people with

2:54:44varying disabilities we're not all gonna have the same needs so you may not hear it within the group

2:54:49that you've got there um and through the mayor to uh either I'm not sure I think this is just staff

2:54:57like councillor Caron especially with the talk of legislation that outs youth to parents and stats

2:55:03from the CMHC that say that one out of three in-house youths are LGBTQ I'm also interested in

2:55:10potentially having an additional youth informational report done so is it the correct the

2:55:19proper time to make motions for further directions is October 17th. Through the mayor to council

2:55:26Caighten I think that is our suggestion is that you let us take this away and digest it and bring

2:55:30back recommendations and then if you still feel that something is missing that would probably be

2:55:35appropriate time in October um to direct staff to undertake additional work in any where in any

2:55:41place where you feel there's a gap. Perfect thank you so much. And Alt and then Chiu.

2:55:50Thank you very much. Matt, through you I believe to both staff and to the presenters

2:55:57I truly appreciate your comments with regards to human rights approach and recommendation number one

2:56:02and number two for that matter there's there's a couple of concerns that I have

2:56:07and there there's some sincere concerns. The human rights approach to me is really important

2:56:13but I believe that it also carries with it an obligation to act within the context of human

2:56:19rights and I am wondering if someone can please explain to me what does that mean in concrete

2:56:26terms are there legal moral ethical and economic obligations that come with it.

2:56:38So I'm through the mayor to councillor Allt I'm starting simply to say that

2:56:43I'm not sure we have enough information to answer that for you tonight and that probably is a

2:56:47takeaway certainly things like legal we would need to seek some guidance on that um and then the

2:56:53ethical and moral I think what what really we need to hear from council probably on October 17th is

2:57:00if you agree with that recommendation we then need to go away and do a little bit more work and look

2:57:05at the comparative municipalities who have adopted this to answer some of those questions but I'll

2:57:09look to Liz and Brianna to see if they have any thoughts at this point. Through mayor Guthrie

2:57:16to councillor Allt um absolutely I can't comment on the legal side of a human rights-based approach

2:57:22to housing. One thing I can say though is that a human rights-based approach to housing emphasizes

2:57:29the fundamental fundamental principle that adequate housing is not merely a privilege but a human right

2:57:35and that every individual in Canada has the right to safe affordable and dignified housing.

2:57:39It is as you know it's grounded in legislation and also the universal declaration of human rights

2:57:47and so there are some connections there that can be made and agree that the the latter part of your

2:57:55question may warrant further exploration for the legal elements. And thank you for that I really

2:58:01don't mind that it's a takeaway I think that's important because I do think that there are aspects

2:58:06of perhaps legal advice that we might need to delve in but there's a second part to the question

2:58:12as well and that is with regards to recommendations one and two I note that you said that this is

2:58:19complementary and supportive of the county and I get that. Does it also entail in Alaska County

2:58:24this as well that the county needs to agree to in essence a human rights approach and possibly even

2:58:33if we do have a a staff member dedicated to housing that that person be recognized as by the county

2:58:43as being involved in housing and social services and if the county says no because they are our

2:58:49agent is this still achievable is there anything achievable? Through America 3 to the counselor

2:59:02that's a great question and so in our report we did indicate that this approach if the city were to

2:59:09adopt a human rights based approach to housing that it could be considered complementary to the

2:59:15work that the county is doing even if they were to not adopt that approach however that is something

2:59:21that the city could engage with the county and dialogue around potential interests on their

2:59:27part in considering that as well. If the county were to not it it doesn't prevent the city from

2:59:35taking that approach to inform elements that are more your role or elements that individuals may come

2:59:44to the city for guidance on as it relates to housing services for people experiencing homelessness

2:59:51and so as individuals are coming to you perhaps with funding requests especially funding requests

2:59:57that may fall out of the scope of the CMSM role for people experiencing homelessness it it can provide

3:00:05sort of that channel to to respond to those requests so to answer I don't believe it's necessary for the

3:00:12county to also adopt but definitely I think it would be worth a conversation to assess

3:00:18their interest in considering that approach. And thank you because as I said I believe that the human

3:00:23rights approach is the right approach but the next question the last part of that question

3:00:27does the province need to agree in not just in principle but in tangible ways to the human

3:00:34rights approach in other words you have many communities going around stating it but if the

3:00:38province isn't there what do we have? Through America through to the Councillor and and for that

3:00:49reason that's why we really do emphasize system recommendation which is that council requests

3:00:56the government of Ontario develop and adopt a provincial housing strategy with measurable

3:01:00targets so that they really are interconnected and and that really makes that linkage.

3:01:05Thank you very much. You're welcome. Great thank you Councillor Allt and

3:01:10Chu and is there anyone else on Billings after Chu? Thank you Mr. Mayor and I just want to thank

3:01:19Collective Results as well for putting together this report. I kind of see this report more as a

3:01:26conversation starter and a precursor to our October meeting and I just had the same line of

3:01:33questionings as Councillor Allt did on the human's right approach. I think a lot of it was addressed

3:01:39so I won't kind of badger on that anymore but I do want to get a better sense of how this would

3:01:45change our conversation and vocabulary very our vocabulary when we meet with our intergovernmental

3:01:52partners so just some clarity on that because words do have meaning and I'm just curious how

3:01:59does that process work if we do channel the human rights approach you know governance model towards

3:02:06our future conversations and how would that really affect our funding opportunities even.

3:02:16Through the Mayor and Councillor Chew, thanks for the question. I think we'll have to understand

3:02:21for the city and also for the county probably what a human rights approach to housing looks like

3:02:27as we start to consider our programs and and how those interact with our citizens.

3:02:31So certainly I can imagine that there is an evolution both in perhaps how we approach things

3:02:37but also the conversations we have with other levels of government. Certainly a rights-based

3:02:41approach to housing is aligned to where the federal government is so always great to have

3:02:46synergies there particularly if there was a funding opportunity or a program that we could apply to

3:02:52realize so you know from an intergovernmental perspective there certainly seems to be synergies

3:02:57at least with the federal government as as it applies to this recommendation.

3:03:07Thank you so much. Billings please.

3:03:11Thank you Mr. Mayor. Back to the presentation under health services recommendation one that we

3:03:17support the regional alternate care destination clinic here in Guelph. So you give the example in

3:03:24London so I was wondering in London was that 100 funded by the ministry or was there any other

3:03:33funding streams for its success and or from the municipality capital and or operating and do you

3:03:39know? Through the Mayor to Councillor Billings we're just giving the consultants a moment to look

3:03:52that up just they have that information if not we may need to get back to you. Okay okay so through

3:04:01your your worship the reason why I ask is because this is one of the recommendations because

3:04:07there you know the community partners it says here in Guelph are preparing the funding proposal

3:04:11so I was just wondering was the city part of that funding proposal and an expectation from the

3:04:18municipality? Through America 3 to the Councillor sorry for the delay in responding we had to look

3:04:27that up for you. That model in London was funded through Ontario Health and I just wanted to clarify

3:04:36that's what you were looking for is to confirm who's funding the model in London? No well not

3:04:44whatever the ministry so my question if they if it was 100 funded meaning did the municipality

3:04:51contribute whether it's capital or or operating? The information that we received was that it was

3:04:58funded through Ontario Health. Okay thanks thanks for the clarity. You're welcome. Okay is there any

3:05:07other questions before I have a couple to finish off? No okay great I'll just go to my questions.

3:05:16I just have a few sort of rapid fire hopefully okay because some of them have been already asked

3:05:22from my colleagues so thank you. So on page four it just talks about all the different

3:05:31agencies and the key informant interviews and such. Since the report came out other than the

3:05:38brain injury correspondence that we have had attached has there been any other agencies or

3:05:45stakeholders that have come forward and said oh I wish I was a part of that or oh I wish I could

3:05:51be a part of the next steps does anyone else come forward that we're aware of? To the Mayor no not

3:05:58through my office and I don't know who is sales and where the staff leads who are named in the

3:06:03report so I would have imagined it would have been us and so no. Yeah I haven't heard any either

3:06:07through me I just wanted to see if there was that okay so thank you and then the the other one was

3:06:14on page four it says the data validation meetings there was only three completed so

3:06:21since that this part portion of the report was released you then had that gathering you said last

3:06:26week with like 40 of them in the room was that an opportunity for more validation than to come

3:06:33forward I mean the Homewood obviously did which rightly so but but was there was there others as

3:06:40well? To the Mayor at that meeting on Thursday we shared that there had been the concern raised

3:06:46by the Homewood because we wanted to be open with groups that the report was being updated

3:06:50and so we shared that in the room and we got lots of feedback from the stakeholders but nobody

3:06:56identified that they had other data corrections that they were looking for to be made to the

3:07:03collective results report. Okay thank you on page five it says that funding barriers currently exist

3:07:13for an integrated systems approach to occur greater investments and flexibility with how and where

3:07:20funding can be used is required across all service areas to meet community needs. Fair enough I'm with

3:07:28you. So would you agree that that statement is best placed kind of in the middle of the room or the

3:07:37middle of the table at whatever the next steps would be for the community to get together? That's to

3:07:44the consultants. I'm not sure the etiquette through Mayor Guthrie to Mayor Guthrie.

3:07:56That's that's a really great suggestion definitely as we looked at everything through the consultations

3:08:03that was one of the pieces that emerged and I'm sure it's not surprising to many people in the room

3:08:08that there are the funding challenges right it's very very siloed and I think understanding first

3:08:16of all just I think we have a good sense of sort of why they exist because the funding flows through

3:08:24different ministries to different service providers so I think that that provides most of the context

3:08:30for you know how that how come that is fragmented. I think to understand like to really unpack that

3:08:36more and and try to more solution focused in understanding okay this exists how can we

3:08:42how can we change this because as you saw in the report as well permanent supportive housing

3:08:49is definitely one of the key steps to to really improve this situation within the community when

3:08:57we're thinking of people experiencing homelessness and we really want to see positive improvements

3:09:06those individuals don't want to have to go to different health service providers to have their

3:09:14their needs addressed it is best practice for you know that to all be in one place to be housed

3:09:21and to have those services there and there's a lot of challenges that happen it seems simple but it's

3:09:26very there's a lot of challenges so I think giving the opportunity to really dig into that and use

3:09:33that as potentially a catalyst to become really solution focused is a great idea.

3:09:42Well I agree with you I think maybe it touched on a little bit Councillor Downer's question about

3:09:47where where that space can happen to get to those solutions as you suggested which would be the next

3:09:53step so we'll we'll get to that I'm sure further further okay just a few more questions thanks for

3:10:03sticking with me here I guess one of the questions I wanted to ask the consultants is in some of your

3:10:12recommendations it's all around advocacy which I totally get you know I want like I'm just going

3:10:23to give an example the one about the impact program or the 24-7 coverage so when I see that example

3:10:30I say to my this is this was just my gut reaction just to be open and honest I'm like oh okay so for

3:10:34the sixth time I'm going to go ask the province to fund the impact program so it's it sounds like

3:10:46the recommendation was so evident to you that you're maybe recognizing it for the first time

3:10:52because you're doing the work on our behalf but here did anybody say like hey this advocacy work has

3:10:59been going on and on and on it's almost a little bit to Councillor Goller's first question

3:11:06how many times can we continue to ask for some of these things how prevalent was that

3:11:13conversation in your interviews in the surveys that you did to mayor Guthrie in terms of advocacy

3:11:23most of the suggestions were just to advocate more which I know you're saying it's been done

3:11:29and done and done but no one really commented on the fact that it has been done over and over again

3:11:35it is mentioned a lot because it is obviously something that is within the privy of the city to

3:11:40do and stakeholders to do so that's probably one of the reasons why it's suggested as a solution

3:11:45over and over again okay thank you well just for the record on that particular one literally six times

3:11:54like maybe seven over and over and over again reports and charts and reports and charts and

3:12:04bending the ears and the hallways and ministers all the time okay I vented sorry everybody

3:12:14my last question was this somewhere in the report somewhere in the report it said that

3:12:24your mandate wasn't to seek out the effectiveness I'm paraphrasing but your heads are nodding in

3:12:30agreement with me and I think that is a that is a really important question so I'm not upset that

3:12:38you didn't do that because it wasn't part of your terms of reference but I think there is a conversation

3:12:43to be had around the effectiveness of the millions of dollars that go into this system although it's

3:12:53fragmented but it's a still millions of dollars that go into a system and that the end results the

3:13:02effectiveness is is sort of unknown we we we hear I remember I remember years ago when I was a

3:13:12counselor it wasn't even the mayor I remember hearing a story of a million dollar what's the name

3:13:22Murray okay it's and it's where an individual that is experiencing the homelessness or mental

3:13:30health or addictions issues exactly what you were sent away exactly what we're all interested about

3:13:35basically followed somebody that is a part of working to all these into all these silos

3:13:42into different areas and how much does it cost to take care of Murray and it was like a million dollars

3:13:52so the effectiveness is so important to me because of there's asks embedded in this report

3:14:01there's going to be there's huge asks coming from the county in five minutes and so where do you

3:14:10where would you suggest we drill down to some form of a recommendation or solution where the

3:14:20outcomes there's people accountable for the outcomes to the degree that they can be because

3:14:25we know that we're dealing with individuals that may have some issues to to deal with so I

3:14:30respect that but it is millions and millions of dollars just in growth that goes to these issues

3:14:39and yet it's it seems like the same people or the same issues never ever get resolved and that's

3:14:49a fair question for a lot of people to ask where's the effectiveness of the the investments that

3:14:56have been made what do you suggest how we can start to raise the bar of accountability on seeing

3:15:03positive outcomes with those investments to mayor Guthrie thank you for the question we completely

3:15:11agree with you and that's why we did build in system recommendation five around a comprehensive

3:15:18outcome evaluation because we want to know at the end of the day is anyone better off really

3:15:28and the only way that that can be done is if you look at the whole system and all of the partners

3:15:34solve need to understand what are we trying to achieve in the short term in the intermediate

3:15:39term and the long term and you build a framework around that and you develop a plan to measure that

3:15:48it requires everyone to come together to agree to what you're measuring and and execute that

3:15:55it it's not hard to do but you need to have all the people together and be in agreement on what it

3:16:03is you're measuring and come together to measure that it's it's such an important piece of the puzzle

3:16:10because there's no point in just implementing all of these services and at the end of the day

3:16:17if you can't actually answer what you've achieved it it feels incomplete and so that's why we did

3:16:25include that recommendation in our report well thank you thank you very much okay well that was

3:16:32that's uh that's all the questions I promised you that was my last this time I'm actually

3:16:36saying it's the truth that is my last question so thank you very much we'll pause there for a moment

3:16:44and we will now call up our county friends to come forward for tabling their report and presentation

3:16:54so maybe we'll just take a like a one or two minute break here as they come forward and get ready

3:17:15so no I'll just it's okay I'll I'll say it again so we are not going to table the receipt of that

3:17:23report until we have this context then we go in camera then with a full context we come back out

3:17:32here and and look to council's will to to receive your report okay just before we go to you I just

3:18:32I did have a counselor reach out to me asking for a point of clarification that I did not see until

3:18:38now Councillor Cawson did you did you want to ask something sorry I was um I'm meeting I did just

3:18:54have a question Margarh three um I think I think for myself and also perhaps just for the the public

3:19:01just when we were speaking about advocacy um and you've gone and and you know I know you know we've

3:19:08talked about going to FCM and AMO and and what that means but I think really just laying out what

3:19:14those six times mean and what what is the definition of of of like we've been beating down the door

3:19:19because I really just I think it's important to to to clarify and then maybe this is the wrong

3:19:24space for it but I I just thought that it would be important to clarify like what what happened at

3:19:29those at those six junctures just for for the public thank you sure so I am going off the top of

3:19:38my head but I believe the police services board has done at least two advocacy letters and conversations

3:19:50with ministries about that issue the impact one is the one I'm specifically talking about

3:19:56um when we had the um when we had the uh groundbreaking ceremony for the Children's

3:20:07Mental Health Association building on Woolwich uh minister Tobolo was there um bent his ear about

3:20:16it at that um as the chair of the Ontario big city mayors I bent the ear about that with both the

3:20:26minister and directly to the premier and I brought forward a motion to council to also ask for support

3:20:39through the police services board for that ask of the impact funding so off the top of my head

3:20:46that is seven times thank you I appreciate the the details thank you and so with

3:21:00that I just want to welcome our county representatives here um Louisa is of course

3:21:06sort of the in charge of this file this is our role at the county we have Scott here as well

3:21:14Scott Wilson is the AO of Wellington County thank you for coming and our warden is here

3:21:20for the warden the warden for the county is here as well Andy thank you so much for coming

3:21:26and so just want to make sure that everyone knew the the three that are sort of present

3:21:30and you're willing this to come forward really appreciate it I'll be quiet and turn the microphone

3:21:34over to you for your presentation thank you warden Guthrie and and to council for having us here

3:21:44tonight um and for allowing us to an opportunity present our preliminary budget impact document

3:21:51I want to start by acknowledging the housing services team they are the true subject matter

3:21:57experts we have Mark post who's the director of housing and several managers and a lot of staff

3:22:02that work hard to make the housing services system the best that it can be it is through their

3:22:08expertise and planning of managing and delivering the housing system they were instrumental in

3:22:15identifying key priority areas to to that we need to address as soon as possible and in

3:22:20calculating the funding allocations to each area unfortunately other obligations prevented them

3:22:26from attending this evening but I will make note of any questions that I'm unable to answer

3:22:31straight away this 2020 for 2025 preliminary budget impacts document has been developed to provide

3:22:40county council as well as city council projected increases in the municipal contributions to

3:22:46address unprecedented increased demands of housing services in the areas of administration

3:22:53homelessness prevention emergency shelters transitional housing rent supplements supportive

3:22:59housing and maintenance of the social and affordable housing stock this preliminary plan is being

3:23:04shared for information purposes in advance of being fully developed and formally presented to the

3:23:10county's 2024 budget and 10-year plan process all budgetary increases in this document address

3:23:17the county's mandate as a services to measure for services and are meant to provide an order of

3:23:23magnitude this plan does not consider all areas of the budget and county staff have yet to complete

3:23:28a line by line review of the budget for 2024 which will consider trends experienced over the remainder

3:23:35of 2023 including inflationary inflation factors and any updated inflation available

3:23:42provincially as well as locally what brings us to this simply put the pressure in the market

3:23:49based housing resulting from increased rental housing costs and limited housing options has

3:23:55resulted in more individuals and families struggling with housing instability which places a

3:24:00greater pressure on the local service social services housing system delivered by the housing

3:24:06services division the housing services division is experiencing increased demand and increased

3:24:12delivery costs and coupled with funding from other levels of government has led us to where we are

3:24:18here today the report in your agenda provides detail on the basis for social services housing

3:24:30programs this presentation will provide you with a general overview of the housing service system

3:24:36currently the housing service systems division as services division has four core mandates set

3:24:42by the province the first is to maintain a by-name list that records individuals that are

3:24:48experiencing chronic homelessness and Ontario chronic homelessness is defined as a person who

3:24:53is currently experiencing homelessness and has experienced homelessness for six months or more

3:24:59in the next year we're also responsible to ensure the provision of an emergency shelter system

3:25:06the by-name list and the emergency shelter data are monitored very closely and that helps us craft

3:25:13future needs as well as any trends that we're seeing in that system fourth we need to maintain

3:25:19the service target of a minimum of 2442 rent geared geared to income subsidized housing units

3:25:27these were what the county inherited through the devolution in 2022 and lastly we are to reduce

3:25:34chronic homelessness so yes we are responsible for the left side of the continuum the housing

3:25:41services and homeless 10-year plan as well as five-year updates the plans must include

3:25:46measurable strategic objectives and action plans that align with provincial policy legislation

3:25:52and matters of provincial interest the Wellington Guelph community has drawn on the work of Stephen

3:26:02Gates and Aaron Day that categorizes preventing homelessness into three focus areas the first

3:26:09is preventing experiences of homelessness the second is emergency responses to emergency to

3:26:15home experiences of homelessness and transitions and retention of permanent housing solutions

3:26:22ideally the housing system should have adequate affordable housing options through affordable

3:26:27market-based options and for people eligible for social services they need adequate housing

3:26:32government funded affordable housing and rent supplement programs sufficient affordable housing

3:26:38leads to less funding needed for prevention and responding experiences homelessness of the total

3:26:45so housing services budget which is 38.6 million 1.6 million million is used to preventing homelessness

3:26:531.9 is used in responses to experiences of homelessness with approximately 35 million

3:27:00being used to support affordable housing options under the housing portfolio but with the increased

3:27:06number of people vulnerable to homelessness or who are experiencing homelessness we need to quickly

3:27:13increase funding and in the areas of prevention strategies and emergency responses in addition

3:27:20securing the operational funding for transitional and supportive housing projects that are currently

3:27:25in development that will help fill the gap in providing housing options for most vulnerable

3:27:30citizens with acute needs trying to press the wrong green button there this preliminary budget

3:27:39impacts focuses on the right hand side of the housing sorry on the left hand side of the housing

3:27:45continuum to address changing times in the housing service system it focuses on all areas of

3:27:51prevention strategies the emergency responses to home during operational funding for permanent

3:27:57and supportive housing housing ultimately the right side helps to reduce the need for the left side

3:28:05adding new government funded affordable housing requires multi-million dollar investments and in

3:28:11most cases it is a patchwork of capital funding streams that requires funding beyond the provincial

3:28:17or federal capital investments in total there are 2,581 rent geared to income units and government

3:28:25funded affordable housing uh it cross our service delivery area in Guelph sorry for a population

3:28:32of over 140,000 people specific to government funded affordable housing Guelph will have

3:28:39515 available units once all supportive housing projects are operational so you can see that

3:28:47there is a significant demand for government funded affordable housing in comparison the county will

3:28:54have 238 affordable housing units the bottleneck created by being able unable to house those

3:29:02experiencing homelessness in addition to those on the centralized waiting list for rent geared to

3:29:07income supports is one of the contributing factors for the increased number of people

3:29:11experiencing homelessness right across our service delivery area in December 2021 there were 125

3:29:20individuals on our by-name list this rose to 137 individuals in 2022 and has further grown to 154

3:29:28in just six months of 2023 there's also been a rise in the number of unique individuals the

3:29:35individuals accessing emergency shelters from 52 in 2018 to 70 in 2022 to 105 within the first

3:29:45six months of 2023 with numbers rising in august so in response the county has planned that we need

3:29:57additional increases to outreach workers who connect with in or sleep and diversion rapid

3:30:04rehousing workers who work with individuals in the emergency shelter system the funding increase

3:30:09to emergency responses will support the addition of 65 emergency shelter breads that will offer

3:30:15family shelter units and the option to attend a shelter where the use of drugs is prohibited

3:30:21the capital cost to to the new 27 beds slated for november approximately one million dollars will be

3:30:28funded using provincial funding no additional capital funds are needed for the 38 beds slated

3:30:33for october 2023 over 10 million dollars of federal and provincial capital funds will also be in

3:30:39the 12 to create this 43 transitional housing units by the end of 2024 with operating costs being

3:30:47added to the 2024 2025 housing services budget as a preventative measure plan staff to keep the

3:30:55alternate temporary shelter location at 540 silver creek parkway formerly known as old holiday in

3:31:02until the new shelter beds new transitional housing units and new supportive housing projects are

3:31:06operational and the emergency response to experiences of homelessness is reassessed further the

3:31:14tenant of renovations to the 23 shelter beds in november will allow for the space to be transferred

3:31:19to 15 transitional housing units should the need for emergency shelter beds decrease over time

3:31:25so this is basically page 20 in the report talks about an increase of 5.3 million dollars

3:31:36in the 2024 budget which will then be further increased by 1.3 million dollars in 2025 and

3:31:44what that is is the urgent need to address the experiences of homelessness in in guelph primarily

3:31:53as well as the county of wellington and that is through homeless prevention emergency shelters

3:32:00sustaining the current system and increasing the options and number of beds contracting positions

3:32:07for outreach and diversion rapid securing the operation for transitional housing permanent

3:32:12house permanent supportive housing rent supplements so people that are experiencing homelessness for

3:32:19them to to be rent geared to income waitlist of which there's 3,500 people there would be no chance

3:32:28of us to provide them with housing so we have rent supplements that we could try to support them in

3:32:34other areas option areas primarily in the market-based rental system we need an increased cost to

3:32:42maintenance costs and I'll get into a little bit more as to why as well as some address

3:32:49the pressures that we're currently experiencing so the next steps housing services has also noted

3:32:58that the needs of individuals who are entering the housing system have changed in recent years

3:33:04the division works under a housing first strategy but at times the lack of mental health and addiction

3:33:09services results in some individuals with acute needs being evicted from the housing units that

3:33:15they attained putting them back into the homeless state and often for some very significant needs

3:33:22this is after about 40 to 50 thousand dollars worth of this is not good for the individual

3:33:30it's not good for the tenants that live around them and the use of the maintenance costs used to

3:33:34fix the damages which is noted increased maintenance costs of moveouts and the tenant charge backs

3:33:40which have significantly six months of 2023 while there will be the infrastructure through new

3:33:47transitional and supportive housing units health services and housing services housing services

3:33:53and housing services must be working together to ensure that all supports needed by individuals

3:33:58with acute needs are readily available to support their well-being and the success in

3:34:06further while the preliminary budget impact stays in the lane of social services housing

3:34:11strong and united advocacy is needed to support the health funding applications submitted by

3:34:15Stonehenge this application includes operational funds for the 32 supportive housing units

3:34:21located at Shelldale in Guelph in addition to health services that will support the 65

3:34:26Dell High Street project Grace Gardens and the Wyndham House projects given that more

3:34:32government funded affordable housing is key to preventing homelessness and decreasing the need

3:34:36for emergency shelters housing services will continue to work closely with all municipal

3:34:42all local municipalities to leverage funding that is provided by the provincial and federal

3:34:46capital funding opportunities finally with just 2025 just around the corner joint advocacy is

3:34:54needed to increase provincial and federal allocations to support sufficient housing services

3:34:59that's needed to address the significant housing gaps of today and the future

3:35:04we can go through the report but I am entrusting that people have read the report and have

3:35:09any questions great thank you so much yeah I've got I know I've got a few myself but again

3:35:17I'll go at the end is there any that has a question off the talk hey councillor Goller and

3:35:23then in Kate and again I did see sorry Karen Ron I saw your hand oh also Kate and two so

3:35:29councillor Goller you go first thank you through your worship thank you for the presentation

3:35:37Mr. Deuce so I fully understand that this is a huge problem and it's only getting bigger so I'm

3:35:45trying to to to wrap my head around given that you mentioned there was unprecedented need in the

3:35:54last couple years there has been more people accessing our shelter system how does this plan

3:36:02that has been presented today change from what we have been doing in the past to to address the

3:36:09greater need? Thank you Mayor Guthrie to the councillor it's primarily trying to keep up with the

3:36:18demand I think in August was the first time in quite a while where a shelter system has needed

3:36:27to turn away individuals so with the increased demand and most notably I think the first part

3:36:35of 2023 and this is where I really want to acknowledge the housing staff that they've been

3:36:40gathering data in the first six months of 2023 and have been able to craft a report like this to

3:36:46respond to that because it is 2022 but more significantly in 2023 where we've seen a significant

3:36:53shift in the number of people that are needing to access the emergency shelter which then in turn

3:37:00are the number of people that need to be housed and and supported in maintaining that housing

3:37:07so I think the answer to that question is keeping up with the capacity numbers are growing we don't

3:37:13know what the future looks like there's no predictor as to you know x amount of people will now be

3:37:19you know coming to Guelph and accessing the emergency shelter system we can go by the by

3:37:25name list and having a robust by name list really helps us with that and basically it's keeping up

3:37:31with the capacity and making sure that if the numbers continue to grow that we're out there ready

3:37:36to to address that need and also the plan addresses different types of emergency shelters we've been

3:37:44finding that there's more families that need shelter services that number has significantly

3:37:49grown so now we want to open up a shelter for families we've been hearing that a lot of or

3:37:55some individuals not a lot do you not want to go to the shelter as at 23 Gordon or the one at Silver

3:38:01Creek because there's a use of drugs and if they're trying to you know if they're in in in that state

3:38:08where they're no longer using drugs they find that very difficult to be there they want a place where

3:38:12they can go and maintain you know they're they're you know avoiding the use of drugs so we're trying

3:38:20to listen to what the community is saying and and trying to provide them a space where they can go to

3:38:27so that they can be warm at night and have a place to stay and sleep and and get the supports that

3:38:32they need okay okay I I appreciate that now so to clarify when you mentioned that the the numbers

3:38:41that were tracked currently the by name that's at about 154 people okay and the and the the growth

3:38:50that you mentioned from 52 beds used in the shelter to 70 to 105 over the three years so so that has

3:38:59been the growth and you mentioned that in in august this year that is the first time that we

3:39:04have actually had no shelter beds is that correct we've had to after you mayor Guthrie we've had to

3:39:11either divert them to bring them to another shelter at silver creek or in some cases we've had to turn

3:39:17they would the operator would had to turn some people some individuals away okay and that is the

3:39:22first that we've heard of that for in quite a while okay okay so if you can help me understand

3:39:29how do we determine how many shelter spaces are needed there a formula a city of 100,000 needs

3:39:3725 a city of 200,000 needs 60 or you know how do we determine just looking specifically at the

3:39:44shelter system what would be appropriate to have in a city through you mayor Guthrie I don't know

3:39:53that there's a magic number I think that I think one of the challenges and as I was sitting listening

3:39:59to the comments outcomes and and you know ensuring you basically need the data to then support the

3:40:08need to increase the services and then provide the funding in that area so we would make decisions

3:40:15based on on on evidence and data in our system and then we would monitor the system to make sure

3:40:21that it's keeping up with the okay and when you're looking at outcomes it's when you when it's

3:40:28about social services outcomes are very different for very for a variety of individuals there would

3:40:34be a lot of supports and and housing and a lot of funding going towards maintaining

3:40:40individual and yet after a year we're basically trying to maintain that person's well-being

3:40:47there have been other cases where another individual was in the emergency shelter system

3:40:52and the staff could barely recognize the individual five months from from that when he entered

3:40:57because of the supports that he received he was he was doing much better so it's very unique every

3:41:05individual is very unique as to how they would respond to the supports and whether or not that

3:41:09works for them so having the data to say we created this X amount of people were using it it's still

3:41:17a good use of the funding and and then shifting and and turning and modifying the use of the

3:41:23finding according to the different needs that we're seeing in the system is is is the way to go

3:41:28okay okay and I can appreciate that specifically within the shelter system if there's space for

3:41:35every person in need then we're meeting that need when we look at a little bit farther along the

3:41:40spectrum with with the permanent supportive housing with a rent gear to income do we have

3:41:48do we have an idea of how much we actually need in wealth because I'm looking at this and it looks

3:41:54like there is there is this this wait list of 3000 plus families that are waiting for for housing

3:42:03for social housing and I'm looking here and you know in 2021 there were two units built in 2019

3:42:10there were 12 units built so is how do we know if we're actually making progress or if we're

3:42:17meeting a target that that were successful in meeting that need or in reducing the wait list

3:42:24after you may or got three I think our target would be 4000 more you know and that would

3:42:29meet the demands of the people that have been sitting on the the rent gear to income wait list

3:42:35they are defined units that were handed over from the province to the municipality that's why we

3:42:41have that target you to at least maintain what we gave you and then the funding to operate and to

3:42:48actually provide the rent supplements to those individuals the provincial allocation has continued

3:42:55decrease and the and the municipal government has been picking that up and so it's very difficult

3:43:01to increase those units when it comes to affordable housing that is based on what the CMSM is we are

3:43:10the caveat to provincial and federal funding allocations so we put it out there we put an

3:43:18RFP out and we need takers to say that we would like to use this funding and be responsible for a

3:43:26patchwork of other capital funding huge investments by that housing provider to say we're willing to

3:43:32invest in this money in this project and we will provide x amount of affordable housing units if

3:43:39there are no takers that money is not used and so that is where the CMSM does not have the authority

3:43:48or the mechanisms or the funding to create new affordable housing it either needs to be developed

3:43:55through municipal investments like the county has done or you need to leave it up to the private

3:44:02market sector to build government afforded affordable housing that is the problem with the

3:44:11government funded affordable housing system we have a lot of say and mandate on the left hand

3:44:18side of the continuum when it comes to the right side we are at the mercy of people who want to

3:44:23pick it up and develop it okay I can appreciate that and when you were here in the summer I did

3:44:31ask the question how much does wealth need to pay to build social housing because we have this

3:44:37waitlist that is still in the tenure plus now you've let me know that we need about 4 000 more

3:44:43units and that is on top of the 2343 units that exist so how much money and of the the 5.3 million

3:44:53that are being asked for how much of that would go to build new rent here to income housing

3:44:59if you may got three the fund that there is the funding is not the funding ask is not reflective

3:45:05of that need okay what we're asking for right now understanding that to address the significant

3:45:12challenges of homelessness that we're experiencing right now you know and it is a significant ask

3:45:19we want to prioritize that but also understanding that we need to continue to advocate

3:45:26to the provincial and federal governments to provide more funding for affordable housing

3:45:33so this is where I'm struggling because I hear that Wellington County has put money to build

3:45:38housing in County and we've asked what does the city of wealth need to put up and and I'm not getting

3:45:45a sense that that you know how much we need to put up so how do we actually change the system

3:45:53because we have this band-aid system to fix the lack of provincial funding so we want to

3:46:01address the and a lot of this is to do supplements to help people not end up in homelessness

3:46:08but it seems to me that to actually change that we need to have more social housing to reduce

3:46:14the waitlist so where do we get that information?

3:46:20You may or Guthrie I can share that the county puts aside 1% of the tax levy which I think equals

3:46:271.3 million dollars a year that gets put into reserve and then that continues to get to build up

3:46:35and then once there is an opportunity for receiving any provincial or federal funding

3:46:41we would add the municipal dollars to that and we would build the affordable units like we did

3:46:48in Fergus we built two units two buildings in in Fergus. Right so then where is the guidance for

3:46:56the city of wealth because when I ask our team I say how much money do we need to put aside they

3:47:02said well well in John County is our housing provider they have the experts they have this

3:47:08information so then I am asking how much does wealth need to put away to actually start chipping

3:47:13away our waitlist? After you Mayor Guthrie I believe that that's something that the county and the

3:47:20city staff can work together and and determine what would be a reasonable amount of funding to

3:47:27put aside for affordable housing. Okay okay I look forward to that and then that brings me to

3:47:37key performance indicators or the measures of success we have on page 22 the number of houses

3:47:44that are being built and now the title for this is affordable housing development but from what I

3:47:50see here some of it is 65 Del Hyde that's temporary supportive housing 10 Shelldale 721 which that's

3:48:02permanent supportive housing and then 395 Edinburgh I believe those are senior residences

3:48:07so it says affordable housing but this is the entire spectrum is that correct

3:48:13that the new housing that is being looked at on page 22. Yep you Mayor Guthrie it is affordable

3:48:20housing these are affordable housing with supports and I want to add that we're very happy that this

3:48:27is actually coming you know to fruition and that when an individual is in an emergency shelter

3:48:35and they do have acute needs what is missing right now is our ability to bring them into a

3:48:40transitional housing so a place where they can be their 24-7 receive the supports that they need

3:48:46in order to prepare them to be ready to be then transferred again to a permanent housing solution.

3:48:53In some cases what happens is a person would need to go into a permanent housing solution that has

3:48:58additional supports and in particular supports for mental health and addictions and other supports

3:49:04that they might need in some cases they might be able to go to a permanent housing solution that

3:49:10does not have supports or very minimal supports right now what's happening is they're leaving

3:49:14the emergency shelter and they're going right into permanent housing and in most cases the

3:49:20supports are not there for them and so that's why we then start to experience a reoccurrence of that

3:49:26person going back into the system because they're unable to manage the permanent housing solution

3:49:31that they've been offered so I believe that to increase affordable housing in the way that it's

3:49:38being presented at the bottom there that are in development they're meeting the need to a create

3:49:45more affordable housing units and be and very importantly units that provide people with the

3:49:50supports that they need to to maintain that housing solution. Okay okay thank you thank you for that

3:49:57can you help me? I'm sorry sorry to interrupt you counselor do you have how many I just a list

3:50:03growing do you have any how many more questions do you have? I have three more questions to

3:50:07okay get right right to them if you don't mind so I can get to the other counselors thank you.

3:50:11Thank you what proportion of the the social services budget is provided through the City of

3:50:17Guelph versus Wellington County? That's a good question there is provincial dollars but the

3:50:23majority is provincial and of the municipal dollars which is 90 to share. 90 to 10 where is

3:50:31the opportunity for the City of Guelph to set targets for the outcomes with the money that we

3:50:37give you? Through you Mayor Guthrie that could be something that we could work together on.

3:50:43Okay okay because we are looking at an increase from what I said about 22 25 million that we gave

3:50:52last year to an additional five and a half and I'm not seeing how we're actually gaining ground

3:50:59because in this ask I'm not seeing any new rent gear to income any reduction in the in the waitlist

3:51:06time and I'm thinking we're putting more money to a bigger band-aid but we're not actually

3:51:11improving the situation for members in our community waiting so that's this is where where my

3:51:17confusion is with with how this band actually helps improve the situation.

3:51:23You Mayor Guthrie that's correct the funding that's there is to mean

3:51:27current provincial programs that were to deliver and to maintain the current RGI and affordable

3:51:33housing that we have and to provide rent some supplements and subsidies to individuals

3:51:40through the various programs so there is not a lot of movement but that will take millions of

3:51:46dollars to do that and so more than happy to actually put a plan together that actually will

3:51:55give you an indication as to how much 4,000 more RGI or affordable housing stock would provide the

3:52:03city. Okay I would appreciate that because I hear that the county's doing and and there's this

3:52:08tenure plan to end homelessness and yet what I'm seeing in Guelph is that we're not getting the

3:52:12information on how much more we need I appreciate knowing that we need 4,000 more units now on

3:52:17top of that okay thank you thank you through your worship that that is it for you. Okay thank you

3:52:26Koran, Kate, and then sorry I didn't interrupt you yeah just going through the names on my list

3:52:35go ahead. Okay thanks through you Mr. Mayor. Thanks very much for coming this evening and giving

3:52:41up your your Tuesday evening to answer our questions. Councillor Goller asked a lot of

3:52:48mine so I think I only have one and that is that I hear anecdotally and and individually I've heard

3:52:56some stories where and I'm interested in how people become unhoused and what I'm hearing a

3:53:05lot of in the community and I'm not able to quantify it is that the the renaviction stories the

3:53:11being served with a notice to terminate because a family member is taking over the rental unit

3:53:18and landlords are then raising the prices so that the subsidy ends up being that much

3:53:27you know more and people who were fine and had rental units that they could afford

3:53:34are suddenly experiencing homelessness. What is that is that what you're hearing as well and in

3:53:41which case we can do all this great planning we can do all of this great mental health work we

3:53:46can do all of the incentives for social housing but we're still we're still we've got that part of

3:53:53the spectrum that's falling through the cracks is they're they're working minimum wage jobs

3:53:59but they're experiencing homelessness they're precarious housing and they end up in the system

3:54:05because the market has so radically changed the affordability level for minimum wage workers

3:54:13that that's it that's a gap that I'm most concerned about right now because I think the

3:54:18county the county is focusing on on further left of the spectrum and the market is focusing on the

3:54:26on far right of the spectrum and we've got this this we've got this this gap between

3:54:35between the two.

3:54:36A few mr. mayor Guthrie is you are correct that people fall into a state of homelessness

3:54:45whether it's temporary or for long periods of time and there's a variety of reasons why they do that

3:54:51and so or how they how they how they come to experience homelessness this is where the diversion

3:55:00and rapid rehousing team is really critical where they would meet with those individuals they could

3:55:05call and say I'm at the I'm at at the brink of losing my housing they will work with that individual

3:55:12to try to see how we can sustain their housing that's where the preventative strategies are coming

3:55:18in the rental supplements the arrears for utilities and first and last month's rent to help them move

3:55:23into another unit so that's where those individuals will be served by connecting with housing service

3:55:31staff or one of the diversion workers or rapid rehousing workers or any of the agencies that

3:55:38partner with the camp and we can try to put some strategies in place to prevent that person from

3:55:44being from from experiencing homelessness you know by paying you know offering they obviously

3:55:50have to qualify and there's an eligibility criteria for that where we would help them to pay their

3:55:55rental arrears or their utility arrears and then if we're if they're being renovicted

3:56:02we would try and support them in in accessing a new housing unit and you know perhaps paying

3:56:08the first and last month's rent if they if they find a place to move into okay great thank you for

3:56:16that and I do have one additional question mr. maren if it's out of order please let me know

3:56:20because it doesn't have as much to do with the strategy of of dealing with the waiting list

3:56:26about the type of housing we're building because I've gone on record numerous times as saying that

3:56:31rent rent is only one part of the equation the monthly operating costs for utilities is another

3:56:40rising cost that's spiraling out of control for many many people on the brink of of precarious

3:56:47housing and you talked about utility bill relief as the county moves forward are you committed to

3:56:57building any retro building and retrofitting all county owned properties to be net zero to reduce

3:57:07utility and operating costs yeah that's not out of order can you repeat the question i'm not sure

3:57:17i quite i understand yeah sorry the preamble may have overshadowed the question the preamble is

3:57:23the cost of building housing and the cost of rent are only one part of the equation monthly

3:57:29utility bills are another and monthly utility bills are becoming more and more unaffordable

3:57:35is the county planning to committing to building and retrofitting all of its stock

3:57:43with net zero technology heat pump solar so that we can deal with the rising cost of energy

3:57:54a few may or may or go through i think anything that we build perhaps scott might help me with

3:57:59this he's more tuned to the way that but we always build very efficient and environmentally friendly

3:58:06buildings anything more to add no we can provide you with more information as to how we

3:58:17the standards that we would build in with okay thanks i can take that offline but thank you very

3:58:23much thank you i think i think i've seen also there's been provincial government grants that

3:58:31have helped with like um environmental initiatives within the building stock i believe i've seen

3:58:37that at the county social services meetings in the past am i not am i not right there

3:58:44yes you're correct yeah okay thank you um councillor katyn downer

3:58:55thank you mr mayor through you to county staff i fully agree with you that data is very important

3:59:03in terms of trying to ask for the funding for what's needed and i was wondering didn't see it in the

3:59:10report um what the difference was between the wait list for wheelchair accessible units

3:59:16compared to people who are who don't need mobility needs because i thought that was something that

3:59:21we're going to have in the report at the humus mayor cut three the the wait list does um have all

3:59:28the need of that individual and what is we make sure that we have fully accessible units available

3:59:37and if the need is greater than what we have available we would retrofit a unit

3:59:43to accommodate the individual's needs so through you mr mayor so what was is the typical timeline

3:59:52for a wait list for a person who is a wheelchair user and how many wheelchair users do we have on

3:59:58the list of approximately 4 000 people waiting yeah through mr mayor i need to take that one back

4:00:03because it's getting into a lot of detail into the centralized waiting list and i don't have that

4:00:08information readily available thank you and just one more question through you mr mayor um

4:00:16so when you're talking about um outcomes and how people can improve i was wondering if there

4:00:21is any plans to build um housing that is accessible to people with environmental sensitivities

4:00:27because i know for myself personally i went from chronic fatigue for two years to now um

4:00:35just by having accessible housing and i know quite a number of people who are on odsp

4:00:41also have that is about three to five percent of the population so i don't know how many percent

4:00:46on odsp but are there any plans for that hathu may her cut three yes we again when an individual

4:00:55has a need we will make sure that they're provided a housing that meets their needs

4:01:01so i think especially with the newer units they're much more efficient you know there's more

4:01:07you know more increased h-back systems that bring in fresh air from the outside

4:01:11and so there are a variety of different housing options that we would have and so that person

4:01:17would choose the unit that that's best suited for for the needs that they have great thank you very

4:01:24much downer than alt thank you through you mr. mayor so louisa we probably heard me ask earlier

4:01:32around the possibility of um a summit some kind of a housing and help summit um to take these

4:01:40recommendations and just some some kind of a plan that you know you you're focused on the housing but

4:01:46you also recognize the need for the health service that go along with that housing is equally important

4:01:51in the in creating permanent more permanent housing for people but i noticed on your last

4:01:58slide you had this thing we don't have your slides in our package but it's you talked about a health

4:02:07and the housing symposium so would that how would what what is the plan for that symposium like what

4:02:14would the purpose be or could it be something like a summit that brings all the partners together

4:02:19to talk about that integrated collaborative model that shift to more likely to that

4:02:28after you make me a cut three so we were planning a housing some symposium summit

4:02:34for the fall or the winter or the winter of 2020 2020 2024 and then in talking with our health

4:02:42partners about what we're experiencing in housing you know we decided collectively that we would

4:02:51do a health and housing symposium and that the idea around that is to do a needs assessment

4:03:00identify the gaps but more so to create a framework and pathways to to support individuals within these

4:03:07that they have and we need to do that collectively so we have that housing first model that we do

4:03:15but again sometimes it doesn't work because if we house the individual they need the mental

4:03:20health and support services and we're we're seeing that more and more you know particularly in 2023

4:03:29so we understand that one hand can't do without the other a person that needs to be stabilized

4:03:35needs housing but a person who obtains a housing unit needs the supports in order to support their

4:03:40well-being and to maintain the housing that they otherwise it's all for naught so that is bringing

4:03:47everyone together there's going to be a representation from right across our community anyone that has to

4:03:54do with health or anyone that has to do with housing will come together and try to look at the pathway

4:04:01in the plan that will support individuals needs together and what are the policies that need to

4:04:08go with that what are some shifts and changes in our roles that where is the advocacy that we need to

4:04:15implement and have everyone speaking from the same song sheet on behalf of the Wellington

4:04:21Guelph area so then that way we can try to leverage some of the funding increase funding from the

4:04:27province for housing and also a significant increase in in in supports for health services

4:04:34you know particularly to support the individuals who are are are facing acute needs right now

4:04:41okay so that sounds a lot like what they're recommending in in the the report that we have

4:04:48tonight correct yeah that you know they've looked at at the gaps and they're recommending this more

4:04:54collaborative system level planning and approach with housing and health health care right in in

4:05:01terms of mental health and and substance use through you mayor Guthrie there's a planning team

4:05:08that's that has been put together we're meeting next month next week sorry and then we're looking

4:05:15at a broader planning group and then starting to look at facilitation of what we need to do is

4:05:21similar to what London has done but also Kingston it's had a lot of success so you look so we're

4:05:27looking at what other areas have done and bringing that together and bringing it into our community

4:05:33so would that include businesses as well in the community you may Guthrie yes anyone that has to

4:05:39do with housing okay mental health and addictions okay and and you're planning that for this so

4:05:49would this report you said that you'd be looking at the gaps or understanding the gaps but would

4:05:54this report and the recommendations in this be part of the foundation for the discussions

4:06:00at that symposium summit I just want to clarify which report the the the review and the gap in

4:06:08housing mental health and substance I believe it would it would be very wise for us to consider

4:06:13everything that's in that report okay okay that's fine thanks thank you thank you uh all then to

4:06:25very much mayor Guthrie thanks both to miss our two so and to mr. Wilson for attending

4:06:31today it's truly appreciate it I just want to start with with one question and that that I think is

4:06:39very important the trends and homelessness the trends in being under housed being inadequately

4:06:46housed which way is the model going I'm presuming it's going up is it gradual or is it exponential

4:06:56to take you mayor Guthrie what's going up is that sorry is the need or there or the

4:07:04the need and the numbers of individuals it's rising and I would I wouldn't I don't know if it

4:07:14would be exponential but but we understand that it is rising faster than before where we land at

4:07:21the end of 2023 would give us a better picture as to if we're getting into that exponential row

4:07:27or that trend so we could right now it's a significant increase is the way we're framing it

4:07:34we could create a predictive model perhaps thanks and I don't expect you to do this I don't I don't

4:07:38know how you can do this with these numbers it's frankly I think it's like being the the little

4:07:44dutch boy that tried to uh damn the hole in the dike by sticking his finger in it and wasn't going

4:07:49to hold back to see we've got a serious problem here um with emergency shelters I was wondering

4:07:55if you could please identify uh what are the financial and economic challenges that we have

4:08:01either in the city of gual for the county or both with these are we challenged by um

4:08:07the type of places that we've identified as emergency shelters do we need a better model than

4:08:14what we have right now um through you mayor Guthrie I believe that the emergency shelter system that

4:08:22we have right now particularly with different options that will be available to people uh is is

4:08:31you know it is an adequate um shelter system we also um have in the report it's talks about how

4:08:38we've developed emergency shelters uh so that will be um those standards will um basically require

4:08:47increased training of emergency shelter workers um the report also talks about sustaining the

4:08:53current system uh and addressing the wages of emergency shelter workers is is a very important

4:09:00part of that currently an emergency shelter worker who's working evenings is making an average of

4:09:0820 or 21 an hour with minimal benefits so you can see that sustaining recruiting and sustaining

4:09:15staff to work in shelters is a challenge um so we need to wrap more services around sustaining

4:09:24current system as we build the increased spaces um so I think that uh once we have that emergency

4:09:34shelter model in place and people are trained and compensated fairly for the work that they do

4:09:40um it will increase uh both the the quality and the services that are being

4:09:47systems so is it adequate yes is it average yes are we doing more to increase

4:09:54um the the quality of that service yes there's your infront permit well what I'm actually

4:09:59hearing you saying and I don't doubt it at all um is that uh we are actually going to be experiencing

4:10:05some significant increase in staffing costs as we identify fair wages as being part of what is

4:10:12necessary and increasing staffing so that we have actual wraparound full service is that correct

4:10:20um through you may I got three yes that's correct I mean the plan the proposed plan is to increase

4:10:25the wages um so that is included in the emergency shelters the 2.1 million dollars

4:10:33that is part of that funding yeah okay um the next one the next question I have this one that

4:10:40I struggle with quite a bit what is the demographic of people that are looking for housing right now

4:10:45the family size the type of housing they're looking for are they looking for a rental housing

4:10:51number of rooms uh purchasable housing what are we really dealing with do we know what our demographic

4:10:56is or is it really a broad demographic uh through you may got three I would say the demographic is

4:11:03broad um but we can look at um some some common themes uh or or some um you know sort of trends

4:11:12that we're seeing um so we're happy to to to go back to the staff and ask them to prepare uh you

4:11:18know a more a thorough description of what the demographics are because I actually I did some math

4:11:24on the base of the number that I thought I heard from which is about 3 000 families we calculate

4:11:29that based on a 400 square foot uh uh construction cost it strikes me as a glove we're looking at

4:11:35900 million dollars minimum to house our backlog so I'm a bit concerned about that and it leads to

4:11:42really sing from the same song sheet and in some senses I think I need to know what it is

4:11:48and really um I don't know whether it be you or Mr. Wilson would it be beneficial if federal

4:11:52provincial governments again funded co-op social housing rent geared to income in the manner that

4:11:57they did in the 1970s and 80s would that not have a significant impact on uh our housing challenges

4:12:05today I'll answer that through you mayor Guthrie yes I mean if they can take back the cost of

4:12:18rent geared to income housing that would provide us with a lot more funding to potentially look at

4:12:25other uh you know increasing the the affordability gap as well as uh continuing to prevent homelessness

4:12:35I can't stress enough how underfunded that program is and how vital is it it is it is much more

4:12:41cost effective to prevent homelessness in the first place than it is to um you know discover

4:12:48someone on the by name list and then try to rehouse them in uh in in a social housing unit

4:12:56it's best to try to support people where they are right now so based on the song sheet is uh that

4:13:02this could be a win-win the city and the county together can advocate quite strongly for that

4:13:08return I would presume and you don't really need to answer that but uh I'm wondering if you could

4:13:13please comment on housing first and housing as a human right uh where do you see them uh

4:13:20complimenting each other and do you see any challenges with those principles

4:13:28for you mr through you mayor Guthrie um we believe that everyone should have housing it's a housing

4:13:37first philosophy that we have always had in housing services when we understand that an individual

4:13:44is in support of maintaining their housing or they've uh experiencing homelessness our top priority

4:13:51is to connect with them build relationships with them better understand what their needs are and and

4:13:58start them on the pathway to permanent housing solutions that are in the community via an apartment

4:14:06or a condominium um or a house that's being shared by other people um the rights to housing

4:14:18I believe is a a term that is used but at the same time when you're using that term you have

4:14:27to understand what does that mean um so for me a right to housing means that we need to do everything

4:14:34that we to ensure that that person is adequately housed within the normal system um you know

4:14:42and what happens if someone does not want to do that uh so I mean it really you have to delve down

4:14:50into what does that exactly mean and under what circumstances and in what other situations

4:14:56and what is the cost to that and is it reasonable uh for um the tax space to to fund um

4:15:08whatever option a person might want to have um so I think that that term is is out there quite often

4:15:14I think what that means for most people is that everybody should have a home to live in and and

4:15:20we completely 100 agree with that it's what our division does uh day in and day out uh it's what

4:15:27keeps our staff up at night when we when we see individuals that we can't house um because we

4:15:32really care for those individuals and and when we don't see their needs met there's also a right

4:15:37to the supports to to for your well-being and to be able to maintain that housing um so it's not

4:15:44just a right to housing it's the right to mental health and addiction supports um and I know people

4:15:52sometimes feel that oh house them and that's the solution uh it's part of the solution but simply

4:15:59housing people without the supports that they need is is half the game uh and uh and we really need

4:16:07to wrap our heads around that this is a collective of needs that that individual needs and housing

4:16:12is part of that it's not all of that um so I'll get off my soapbox now um but I like the soapbox

4:16:23so that is a right a person has a right to to to live well in their community feel part of the

4:16:29community feel respected uh and and and and and integrated alongside everyone else so if that is

4:16:38what the right to housing means then absolutely yes um we are 100 behind that thank you very much

4:16:46and thanks to all your staff having had a fair bit of experience in my background in social housing

4:16:51I can appreciate that you are you are doing the labors of of the lords thank you uh chew or work

4:17:03and yep chew and then or work thank you mr. mayor um I just want to follow along with

4:17:10what counselor alt had asked um I think it's I really like your definition of what this housing as

4:17:18a human right actually mean because I think people there are different people in their

4:17:22society that experience different realities and have different needs and wants and that's not

4:17:28something we can always prescribe to them so I appreciate that sober reminder that um there are

4:17:33folks out there um that may or may not want to opt into the services that we um are providing

4:17:40having said though I do want to just draw um to everyone's attention page 12 the out section on

4:17:47outreach workers and divergence slash rapid housing uh reworker or workers sorry and um

4:17:54I just want to say thank you and I really appreciate all the work that your staff is doing in this

4:18:00purview uh I don't I don't think we often take time to recognize the good work that is being done

4:18:07day in and day out 144 youth and 91 adults in 2022 have been diverted um from emergency shelters

4:18:18so I think I don't want to take up too much time but is there a way in which you can highlight in

4:18:22this year and maybe moving forward some of the good news stories that are taking place just so that

4:18:28we can elevate our conversations for how do we actually incentivize our community to support

4:18:34the um where we're allocating additional funding because we all know at the end of the day most

4:18:39of the funding is going towards existing programs um and the upkeep of that but how do we as a council

4:18:46and as a community really hone in and just narrow down on what can we support that is working so

4:18:57I'm just very curious to hear from your perspective even if it's anecdotal what do you think does work

4:19:03and what can we celebrate from your team here tonight uh through you may go through I think what

4:19:10works is that um what's needed is there needs to be a change in national policies as well as

4:19:20provincial policies on social services in general um there needs to be a strategy that encompasses

4:19:30all things that might lead someone to be vulnerable or experiencing homeless and and that will um that

4:19:38is actually I don't believe that hard to do it's a lot of research that's out there and we have the

4:19:43data to support that in our community um so preventing homelessness again is is is the the

4:19:51best answer to all of this having adequate um rent gear to income rent supplements and

4:19:59affordable housing is also the answer in the middle when you have a person that has acute needs

4:20:07transitional housing and supportive housing is there and I you know I believe that we are

4:20:12on the cusp of developing a system that is much more um successful and much more in tune with the

4:20:21needs of today with the rising um experiences of homelessness and the rising acute needs of

4:20:28individuals so um and I believe that um it would be something that we do need to do we need to start

4:20:37to tell the story of uh of individuals that came through the housing system and and the successes

4:20:43that they've achieved um what we don't see is those 3 000 families that are living in supportive

4:20:49and our GI units right now they're living their lives just like we do we're walking alongside

4:20:54them doing groceries with them we don't know that they are but they're success stories right so the

4:20:59success uh is sometimes not very visible because if it's actually invisible that means it's working

4:21:07right so um if they're living beside and I'm an RGI unit and the person beside me is their full

4:21:13rent if you don't see the that's a success story in in in right there um so look at the numbers

4:21:21and look at the number of people that we're housing right now there's a lot of success stories

4:21:27out there and perhaps we need to be sharing that more so I appreciate your comment thank you

4:21:33okay I've got just two more so uh uh oh I got a rork um mr mayor sorry may I just have one quick

4:21:41follow-up no you can't no I'm just going oh shucks um I really appreciate your commentary there um

4:21:51I think as this program continues to mature uh there I'm sure your team will look at ways in

4:21:56which we can build internal capacity as well so that existing staff can continue to reach out to more

4:22:01and pour out to more individuals um that don't have to actually get into the system in the first

4:22:07place so I I don't know I don't want to put you on the spot but could you confidently say this year

4:22:15and next year we may see an increase in individuals that are diverted from our shelter program

4:22:22program um is that something that we could share here tonight um you may go through I think that

4:22:31you know the fact that we're going to have transitional units opening up

4:22:35and that will have more supportive housing units for individuals I think we're going to see a

4:22:41decrease in the need for emergency shelter systems um and I believe that um we also need to continue

4:22:49to expect the unexpected so we can't let our guard down we need to continue to build up and

4:22:54meet the current demands because those a lot of those projects are not going to happen until the end

4:23:00of 2024 so we have some time where we still need to pay close attention to our emergency shelter

4:23:08systems and build that up those individuals should not wait for those things to happen

4:23:13in order for them to have a warm place to put their you know to put their heads at night so um

4:23:19once we see that all of that all those services and all those new units are open we might see

4:23:28the need of emergency shelters to go down and that's why the part of the plan is is to take some of

4:23:33those emergency shelter beds and be able to flip them into transitional housing so we're trying to

4:23:39be very flexible in what we're building to accommodate what's going to be the need in 2024

4:23:45we didn't see 2023 coming to the degree that it did um but it happened uh and so we want to make

4:23:53sure that we don't let our guard down for more in 2025 so I believe that yes we will see uh

4:23:59definitely more people in in stabilized housing by the end of 2024 thank you so much

4:24:06or work then goer thank you marigot three um my ward mate has changed the tone which was my my

4:24:13intention as well um we like to think covid was well behind us but I think the shelter workers

4:24:20the outreach workers the folks in your shop they were front-mine through covid which was really

4:24:24challenging we haven't had an opportunity to say thank you to them and to recognize that work so

4:24:29I want to do that now um and my question is in you know in 2023 2024 we'll see 165 new units in

4:24:43wealth of the total of 482 over 18 years so 34 percent of the units in wealth will be built

4:24:52and operational in two years so there's folks in this room who are responsible for that I want to

4:24:57acknowledge that I'm holding both reports my head at this time two questions on that I mean

4:25:03that's a phenomenal success that we're going to have five new facilities in two years and I think

4:25:10the community should acknowledge that one do you believe that's indicative of good collaboration

4:25:16amongst a preponderance of the um agencies and second how do we maintain that kind of momentum

4:25:25so sorry now am I gone okay trying to keep me awake here um so through you may or got three yes

4:25:42I think it is a lot of that is through a lot of collaboration and services staff and community

4:25:50partners um they meet regularly on a lot of tables there's a lot of strong collaboration and networking

4:25:57that happens um and um and that is indicative of of of that collaborative work together and

4:26:06and working together to try and support those needs to the you know to the degree that when

4:26:13you know the province and the federal government they give you lots for capital but they don't

4:26:17provide you funding for operating uh so we're working really closely together to figure out

4:26:22where we can get the operating so the kindle project actually is going to health 100 percent

4:26:30if it's a not-for-profit agency providing um you know the transitional sorry the support of housing

4:26:36units they they're not privy to that fund so the way that we try to use housing services dollars to

4:26:42support the operation and then tack on to the kindle ask to provide the health services to those

4:26:49units is a great example of how we're constantly talking together working together and trying to

4:26:55come up with flexible solutions uh to to leverage the amount of funding that's available to both sides

4:27:04and make sure that these uh that these units are built and that they're operated and that we're

4:27:10continuing to work together once individuals are in those units to make sure that we're

4:27:15continuing those conversations about how they're doing uh is there something more that they need

4:27:21did we miss something uh how are we going to fill that gap so I think those conversations are going

4:27:27to be ongoing for quite some time perfect thank you okay we're nearing the end here now this is

4:27:36where I have to say the word I'm circling so Councillor Goller I please just if you could

4:27:42try to wrap that up and then I did get one more Councillor Richardson after that thank you through

4:27:47worship um Mr. with regards to the improvements to our our shelter system um myself and Councillor

4:27:56Downer we sit on the downtown BIA board and one of the concerns that we often hear from the

4:28:01downtown business owners is that the services are concentrated in and around the downtown core

4:28:10and to to the extent that it does have a negative impact as Mr. Mr. Keegan spoke to us earlier today

4:28:18is there a consideration as the shelter system is being upgraded and revisited to

4:28:24move some of those services outside of the of the downtown core to other parts of the city

4:28:32through Mr. Mayor Guthrie um the closest one to the downtown core is 23 Gordon um the other one

4:28:40will the family um shelter that we're hoping to open is located at one Waterloo um the other

4:28:48male adult shelter is that we're hoping to open in October is on Highway 6 the other

4:28:56temporary shelter location that we have is 540 Silver Creek um

4:29:04I'll take this opportunity to say that whether or not people are housed or whether they're not in

4:29:10or whether or they're accessing the emergency shelter system does not take where they spend

4:29:15their daytime hours um so I think that the placement of shelters is um you know can be

4:29:24talked about but also part of that conversation needs to be why else are they going downtown

4:29:32so I think that there's other resources that they're using downtown that's driving them downtown

4:29:38I think that that also needs to be okay because it's clear that you know the shelters are located

4:29:45mostly outside of the downtown core so that is not what's attracting people okay so then when we

4:29:51speak about shelter cities strictly overnight shelter space but not daytime uh space for people

4:29:58through you Mayor Guthrie that's correct emergency shelters typically operate from 8 a.m

4:30:038 p.m in the evening till 8 a.m in the morning that is an emergency shelter system uh daytime

4:30:09programming is not part of the CMS M role okay perfect thank you for that clarification I really

4:30:16appreciate it thank you thank you and Richardson thank you thank uh through you Mayor Guthrie to

4:30:23Ms Artuso I just want to clarify you know especially as a new counselor there's a lot of

4:30:27information to a digest here you have done a really great job giving us a lot of information

4:30:32tonight I just want to clarify that the county delivers housing services on behalf of the province

4:30:39for the county and the city and it's a mandated program with the province that you work for

4:30:46so a lot of the the pressures that we're feeling are related to the decrease in the provincial

4:30:51funding that is not keeping up with the capacity and the need in the city so it one is if that's

4:30:58correct that my understanding and secondly then that brings to my attention that in our report

4:31:03that we received tonight earlier um there was certainly a call to advocate for funding for

4:31:10mental health but not for housing so I'm thinking that that should be something that we should be

4:31:14adding in to you Mr. Mayor Guthrie that's correct we have we are contracted by the province to

4:31:23deliver their programs in accordance to their the agreements and their guidelines and their funding

4:31:30out and we do not waiver from from those programs so you're correct we deliver the provincial

4:31:38programs in the way that they're designed in the way that we're to administer them and the need

4:31:44for more provincial funding for housing is is needed just as the request for increased mental

4:31:51health and addictions we face the same issues and challenges that other services provide thank you

4:32:03thank you thank you uh council Richardson um I don't see any more questions I believe which means

4:32:12it's me and lucky you like 90 percent of my questions were already asked so I only got a couple

4:32:20my first one is do you have any idea about the list of individuals and or families that are

4:32:32in need whether on the by-name list or looking for other supports of housing

4:32:40where compared to the health supports they need so like what I'm trying to get at is if you have

4:32:52150 some odd people on the by-name list do 150 of them also need to be all in supportive housing

4:33:01or is it 150 people on the by-name list but only 100 need support like I'm just trying to understand

4:33:08who just needs a room and a key and they're good to go and who needs some acute like real

4:33:17big supports around them do you have any idea what that that numbers are those numbers are

4:33:27thank you for that question it is a great question and I'd love to be able to come back to you based

4:33:32on our 2023 findings I can tell you that there has been a significant increase I can say that we

4:33:44have two full-time workers that are on the phone meeting people and just working day in and day

4:33:52out to try to stabilize people in housing just in the county owned units so the needs are exponential

4:34:00I would say that they are far beyond the 154 and not necessarily tied to the by-name list

4:34:08there are a number of individuals that are are you know facing a significant mental health and

4:34:15addiction service challenges at this time so to answer your question we can definitely get that data

4:34:24to you because I think it would be something that would be really interesting to take a look at

4:34:30what's it like now what was it what was it like in 2022 and my my guess would be it has

4:34:36significantly increased as well as the acuity we've had individuals where we've had to vacate

4:34:44the four units around them you know the number of times that police services are attending our

4:34:51units has also increased so there there has been a significant shift in in the needs of

4:34:59individuals that are in our housing units yeah thank you without you having to come back with

4:35:07an a kind of a more of an exact number what could you and I won't no one will hold you to it but

4:35:16would you say could you give us what a percentage would be of the individuals not only on the

4:35:23by-name list but this growing outside list that literally need supports not just a key to go to

4:35:31a room and they're good to go but need supports is it is it high 90s is it 75 percent is it 100%

4:35:40like what what's your gut tell you uh based on your expertise of what the percentage is

4:35:47of people the high acuity would be at least 15 to 20 percent that that's very high acuity

4:35:54in general people that need supports is probably sitting at about 75 percent yeah okay so I mean

4:36:01I didn't tell you in advance I was gonna ask that question but I thought for sure it was high so

4:36:06there there you go okay and then my my other question is thank goodness you're doing this

4:36:13symposium or summit I don't care what you do or what you call it starts with the letter s that's

4:36:18great so that's fantastic what I I am a little bit concerned about just a little bit is there's

4:36:27momentum here I feel there's momentum like we've been waiting for months for this report

4:36:33we get the report you're saying that you want to make sure that we do

4:36:37launch off of this report there's this color's collaboration in the air let's put it that way

4:36:42and then I hear over the winter of 2023 2024 you're going to maybe try to get together on something

4:36:48which I get there's planning involved I and I respect that but my question to you is how quick

4:36:56could you please get going on this summit slash symposium how like there's there's

4:37:02collaboration in the air and I really think there's people chomping at the bit to be involved

4:37:09and there's solutions that are sort of in the wings and I don't want to lose that and I'm sure you

4:37:16wouldn't want to or nobody would want to from a collaborative approach to lose that so can you can

4:37:22you talk to me and us a little bit about the opportunity to sort of like really get going

4:37:27on this opportunity to bring people together thank you for that question I can tell you that our

4:37:33division is very committed to this and we this can't happen soon enough for us it is contingent

4:37:41on other partners that are at the table of course we're doing this together but we are spearheading

4:37:48this to to happen as quickly as possible we understand the urgency we want to also leverage

4:37:55the spirit of which people are coming together which we all know are you know good things that

4:38:02happen when when we have a great not a crisis but I mean it's a situation that

4:38:08trust me and so you know you have our assurance that we're doing everything we can to make this

4:38:15happen as quickly as possible the staff also need to be working on they need to submit and create

4:38:21the next 10-year housing and homelessness plan for as of 2025 so they'll be working through 2024

4:38:28as well so the symposium is like a kickoff to that work but they're going to be doing a lot of

4:38:33community collaboration and consultation throughout 2024 to prepare for the next plan that's due

4:38:40for 2025 so there will be a lot of intense work happening in the next year okay that's great

4:38:48okay thank you and of course I we all recognize that there's also the October report on our

4:38:54coming tubes very soon so so we appreciate that all right no further questions on that

4:39:02thank you very much to the county for for joining us and being a part of this I appreciate it

4:39:08at this time I am looking to move into closed session and I'll just read out to everybody here

4:39:18the two titles that are posted publicly on the agenda the first one is housing collective

4:39:27results interview findings and that one would be under section 239 to be of the municipal act

4:39:34relating to personal matters about an identifiable individual including municipal or local board

4:39:40employees and the second one is potential property acquisition to support housing supply

4:39:46that's under section 239 to see of the municipal act relating to a proposed or pending acquisition

4:39:53or disposition of land by the municipality or the local board and may I just ask before we

4:40:01go into closed as I do is there any disclosure or pecuniary interest on those two items in the

4:40:05public realm for those two items we could potentially be going into discuss no I don't hear or see any

4:40:11so can I have a mover for those two for me goller and karan will second that for us thank you

4:40:18anything further on that I on that at all before I call the vote I don't see or hear anything so

4:40:24is anyone against going into closed to discuss those two matters again I don't hear or see anything

4:40:30so that's considered past unanimous for those that are joining us in the room and or watching

4:40:37online council does need to have a closed session a private session to have a discussion around

4:40:43those two issues but when that's done I will be coming back out I will give a high very high level

4:40:50summary and to make sure you know kind of what occurred there and then we can continue with our

4:40:57open session agenda from there so I would imagine I don't like to usually do this but I can see this

4:41:04being you know I can see this being anywhere between a half an hour to an hour so just I'm

4:41:12just trying to give a little bit of some time frame to people all right so thank you very much

5:52:19okay everyone thank you very much for coming back I'm just going to make sure we have quorum with the

5:52:26with the clerk here okay so I just want to give everybody the reporting out the the summary sort

5:52:40of in camera discussions we were back for two issues the first one I'm sorry everybody

5:52:49sure I'm saying it all right the first one potential sorry the first one housing collective

5:52:56results interview findings we received information on that council gave direction

5:53:05to staff on that matter the potential property act with the second one which is the potential

5:53:10property acquisition to support housing supply we received information on that no action was

5:53:17taken on that okay so there's there's the summary of those two items before I go any further could

5:53:26I have a motion of council to go past 11 please councillor Downer and council or work will second

5:53:33that I'm going to call the vote immediately is there anyone against going past 11

5:53:39nobody that's unanimous thank you very much and now I would like to ask for the original

5:53:50and first recommendation to go down from the beginning of our night which is to receive

5:53:56the collective results review and gap analysis of homelessness substance use and mental health

5:54:03services councillor Downer you're willing to move councillor Goller you're willing to second

5:54:10is there any comments just before I call the vote at all councillor Downer just a quick comment on the

5:54:18it was news to me that they were doing a summit or a symposium and that's been talked about a bit

5:54:24and I just want to ensure that our staff are on their planning team that they've got on that

5:54:31so I'm not sure if it's deputio quack or whether it'll be then Evans but if we could ensure that

5:54:39ours that we in has the county to have our staff involved the mayor we will do that

5:54:47thank you anything else Guller please next thank you through worship just a procedural point we

5:54:52received the report from the consultants collective results we were all presented we were also

5:54:58presented with a report from the county who is our housing manager I just wanted to check in with

5:55:03the clerk is there any role for the city of wealth to to receive the report or to accept it or do we

5:55:10just have no oversight over that whatsoever through you mr. mayor to councillor Goller the city

5:55:19council could receive the report there's no there's no meaningful action behind receipt whether you

5:55:25receive it or not it has been put before council it's in the public record it doesn't it doesn't

5:55:30have a real-world impact either way okay I appreciate it thank you okay thank you Gibson please

5:55:39mr. mayor so thank you councillor Goller for mentioning the the county's report just because

5:55:43I was going to speak to that a little bit but if there isn't a chance to perhaps I'll just make

5:55:47a couple comments now mr. mayor yes absolutely okay thank you I've done a lot of listening

5:55:54tonight and it's been terrific learning great questions by all my colleagues I can remember

5:55:59a point where I had my hand half up and councillor brahney you're taking the questions right out of

5:56:03my mouth as I as I had my hand up so I really appreciate it one comment that stuck with me and

5:56:08I just I just I always look for the forest in the trees and I know it is a national a national

5:56:14problem that we're dealing with with homelessness and it's kind of gone hand in hand with coming out

5:56:19of the pandemic as this acceleration of homelessness has happened and I just can't I was really I caught

5:56:25a comment from the county that I thought stuck with me the most which was you know the just this

5:56:31this dramatic increase in housing costs associated with inflation you know the interest rates the

5:56:37renovations that are happening when when a person who's owned a unit for many years and is only

5:56:41incrementally allowed to increase rent but then when they they they can evict based on a renovation

5:56:48and then bring it back onto the market at you know 23 24 2500 whatever they're getting now in

5:56:53Guelph it's it's a frustrating cycle and a lot of it is attached to the housing issues this is

5:56:59aside from the mental health and addictions concerns that we're also experiencing but

5:57:05it is concerning the rate at which inflation is driving a lot of rental units and a lot of rents

5:57:13in Guelph and around across the country and I I just look forward to the day when when we are back

5:57:19at a stable rate of inflation across the country because I think one of the root causes I know one

5:57:25of the root causes to homelessness has been the rapid increase in cost of living for people

5:57:32and once they get evicted from a unit they just can't find another one within their price range

5:57:36because they're simply out and it's anyway just the comment around those those were

5:57:43comments that stuck with me and I sure hope we can get back down to 2% inflation in the next

5:57:47little while because it's causing a lot of pain for a lot of people. Okay thank you.

5:57:53All right is there anything further at all before I call the vote? So everyone you just got to give

5:57:57me about 30 seconds and then we'll move on. I just want to first of all thank Council because this

5:58:04was something approved in the budget to do and I also want to thank staff at the city first of all

5:58:13just because they really I had a lot of frustrations happening around kind of budget. You're at the

5:58:20last one and around this issue and staff really helped me to come forward with sort of this type

5:58:28of an ask and it was you know it was a unanimous decision of council which I knew it would be

5:58:34because this issue was just so front and center then just as it is now. So I just want to thank

5:58:42council first of all city staff and council for for getting this in front of us. A lot of it had

5:58:48to do with clarity of roles which has been mentioned a few times but maybe not just emphasized so I

5:58:55really do want to emphasize that now as the mayor to say there is no lack of empathy or

5:59:02wanting to help from us but there is certainly a problem when it comes to what we can handle

5:59:10within our role and so I I appreciated that being mentioned in times. The next point I want to make

5:59:19is there was a mention of the chamber asking the development community to try to help with this

5:59:25and so I'm just going to skip the chamber and I'm just going to ask if you're in the development

5:59:30community and or maybe you're just a landlord with a room or and you have the ability to try to help

5:59:39please please please please try to help with this because the private sector has such a huge role

5:59:46to play. Moving from the private sector I will just say this like I've said it so many times

5:59:53the upper levels of government have really really failed on this file and I cannot tell you how many

6:00:05mayors I speak to and councils I speak to where this issue is the number one issue that is coming

6:00:14across the mayor's desk in every community and the response that's requested over and over and again

6:00:22from the upper levels of government is not coming and it is very frustrating and we are hopeful

6:00:30that the solutions are coming from upper levels of government but yet here we are continuing to

6:00:37ask and ask and ask because I get back to the rules it is their responsibility especially

6:00:46around healthcare and supports from the provincial government that should be helping with these

6:00:52files and so I'm going to say it again to make it very very clear clear the last thing I'll say

6:00:58is I'm so thankful that I think it was councillor Chew and O'Rourke mentioned and it was mentioned in

6:01:05the presentation from the county about the burnout of staff in regards to handling these issues I

6:01:13cannot tell you how much I hear about that and it's happening everywhere the base funding for many

6:01:22of these social services and agencies yes has gone up a little bit but it's not enough because it

6:01:29was frozen for so many years by the province and they are working in very difficult situations

6:01:39sometimes with very precarious situations with difficult individuals that are struggling in

6:01:46our community so as on behalf of council I really want to say a thank you to all of you on the

6:01:53front lines that are doing this work thank you that it was raised tonight by my colleagues and

6:01:57through the presentation as well to to everyone thank you very very much for this this was a

6:02:03worthwhile report and it is a springboard for these further discussions that are going to happen

6:02:09that are going to be focused on solutions and honestly after this summit or this symposium

6:02:15happens I hope there's no more reports and no more symposiums that we're actually just implementing

6:02:22action action action action because we can't be talking about this anymore and hopefully the

6:02:28advocacy and intergovernmental recommendations work very well with those upper levels of government

6:02:35with that I'll call the vote and is there anyone against receiving that's nobody that's unanimous

6:02:42thank you very very much okay we're going to move on to and speaking of staff that we need

6:02:48thank that would be our planning staff that have been here for quite some time listening to us

6:02:55this next one is old the of am I right the affordability strategy the project initiation

6:03:05and this also is a recommendation to receive and it is that the report from planning and building

6:03:14services regarding the initiation of the housing affordability strategy project dated September

6:03:2112 2023 be received now it's Kush law am I saying that right that's Kush law Matthews I'm embarrassed

6:03:31to ask this question have is this your first time here it is okay I'm not embarrassed all

6:03:37right so it is your first time that's correct welcome thanks to meet you thank you very much

6:03:41for coming here thank you for waiting we really appreciate it I will be quiet and turn it over

6:03:48to you go ahead okay great so good evening good late evening Mayor Guthrie and members of council

6:03:54so as mentioned my name is Kush law Matthews and I am a policy planner here at the city

6:04:00so and I am really happy to be here with you tonight to provide you some high-level information

6:04:05on the initiation of the housing affordability strategy project and so what I'd like you to

6:04:10take away from this brief presentation it has been condensed just given the time of night

6:04:16is a clear understanding of three things so first obviously why are we initiating this

6:04:21strategy in this project second what are the project goals the deliverables and the timeline

6:04:29and perhaps most importantly regarding the timeline is that while we're working on crafting

6:04:33this strategy there's also a lot of work that is going on at the same time to accelerate and

6:04:39facilitate housing supply and wealth so this piece is but one of many puzzle pieces in terms

6:04:46of getting shovels in the ground the third takeaway is that we have a strong desire to

6:04:52collaborate and we've heard a lot about collaboration tonight that theme of collaboration and momentum

6:04:57with as many stakeholders as possible in order to craft a housing affordability strategy that

6:05:02reflects the needs of our community so going into the July 11th housing workshop while staff knew

6:05:09that they had been doing everything within their capacity to deliver housing supply we also came

6:05:15out of that workshop with an even stronger conviction to explore additional tools to support

6:05:20housing affordability and wealth so let's start off with that first takeaway the question of why

6:05:29why are we preparing a housing affordability strategy so the answer is fairly obvious we

6:05:35know it is a top issue for all levels of government and in the extended version of this presentation

6:05:42we did provide an introduction to some of the data to support that and some of the data that we are

6:05:47currently analyzing and how that will inform our upcoming state of housing report that will

6:05:53be presented to council on December 12th so some of the data included in the extended version was

6:06:00a comparison of our affordable housing benchmarks for ownership and rental so comparing 2017 to 2023

6:06:09and that 2017 date is important because that's when the affordable housing strategy

6:06:14affordable housing strategy was last approved by council and we also did a comparison of

6:06:21incomes between 2017 and 2022 so for the purpose of tonight I will just dump to the salient points

6:06:28based on that data so I will skip over a few slides here so the point here and and all that all

6:06:43those slides previous really gets to that that statement at the bottom there we know from our

6:06:50mining of the data that we have so far that income has increased on average of about 31% from 2017

6:06:59but we also know that housing prices have increased on average about 59% for new so single semis towns

6:07:08and apartments and 79% for resale so what that is telling us obviously is that there is a significant

6:07:17gap between how quickly incomes are rising and how quickly house prices are increasing and that gap

6:07:24is widening faster as the years march on making it incredibly difficult for to afford housing no

6:07:30matter if it's new resale or rentals so there's the data end of things but there's also the policy

6:07:44side of things in the policy landscape so we also know that in the past five years and and for a

6:07:51variety of reasons that are beyond municipal control beyond developer control so interest rates

6:07:56inflation labor supplies labor shortages those sorts of things no primary affordable rental

6:08:02units were built outside of those that we invented so affordable housing is not being built simply

6:08:08because of goodwill we also anticipate that the definition of affordable housing may

6:08:16change once the revised provincial policy statement comes out

6:08:19and we're hearing that maybe sometime later this fall I think AMO indicated that

6:08:27we have there has been a signal through the development charges act of what what what a new

6:08:31definition may be but we do have to wait to find out what that definition is and what the implications

6:08:36of that change in definition to affordable might mean right now we still work with 30% of pre-taxed

6:08:43income used for housing cost is the definition of affordable and finally that third point we also

6:08:50know that while evidence shows the supply of housing across all unit types is not keeping up with

6:08:55demand additional supply alone will not address affordability issues especially for low and moderate

6:09:02income families and residents so to put it simply additional supply is necessary 100% it's necessary

6:09:11but it is not sufficient what is built where it is built and under what regulatory framework

6:09:19is equally important which is why finding solutions to housing affordability requires

6:09:26highly collaborative approaches and accountability from all those involved in either facilitating

6:09:32and or building housing so in terms of what the city can and does do to bring on affordable housing

6:09:41supply or housing supply in general we have the most jurisdiction and influence through things like

6:09:48the development approvals process partnerships the provision of financial support and or the

6:09:54provision of land comprehensive strand planning strategies like shaping wealth which led to

6:10:00op 80 and then advocacy so this slide and the following slide takes us to that second take

6:10:10that I mentioned right off the top and it's regarding the project goals and then the timeline

6:10:16so the overall purpose of this project is to define exactly the problem through the data analysis

6:10:22and figure out where those gaps are in our housing and that will inform the state of housing report

6:10:27that I mentioned will be forward in December once we know exactly where we are with respect to

6:10:33housing and wealth we can then start to identify those actions so those quick wins those short

6:10:39term medium term and long term actions we can identify where to best advocate for wealth

6:10:46and we can also look at partnerships to address the private market housing gaps so in terms of

6:10:55the timeline we're currently in phase one the project initiation phase and as you can see included

6:11:02in this work is moving forward on the council directed review of how feasible four or more

6:11:07units are in wealth where this type of gentle density would best occur within the city and

6:11:14identifying under what conditions or what conditions may need to change in order to more easily allow

6:11:19this type of development on single residential lots as we move into phase two which is also in

6:11:26the in in the fall before the end of the year this phase focuses on research and information

6:11:33gathering as I mentioned so we're currently working on that state of housing report and that gap

6:11:38analysis and here is where we will have a lot a more complete picture of our core housing needs

6:11:45so housing that is adequate so there's or not housing that is affordable does it meet that

6:11:50definition of affordable whether that's 30 percent or something else that may come forward and is it

6:11:56suitable in size is it enough bedrooms for example what is also on our radar but what core

6:12:02need doesn't specifically speak to is supportive housing and so that accessible and housing accessible

6:12:09and special needs housing so we will try our best to estimate this housing need in wealth

6:12:16however the challenge will be that the data is not reported on by m pack or through our stats can

6:12:20databases so we will definitely be working with the county on this and use the lists that they have

6:12:26and the information that that they've talked about this evening but there may be a gap coming

6:12:31forward in terms of private supportive housing rounding out the timeline we'll work towards

6:12:37having a recommended strategy council in the fall of 2024 and again I just want to highlight this

6:12:43will include those short medium and long-term actions that can then be implemented so finally

6:12:53this is the second to last slide and it addresses collaboration which is I think is a word that came

6:12:59up perhaps most this evening and that's the third takeaway that I mentioned right off the top

6:13:06so the city will be taking the lead on crafting the strategy but the red with the recognition

6:13:11that we cannot do this alone we are committed and ready to having fulsome open and collaborative

6:13:18conversations and participation with a variety of community agencies we know that we will build a

6:13:24stronger strategy together with the voices of a variety of community members including our

6:13:30for-profit and non-profit partners the real estate industry professionals advise advocacy groups

6:13:37and individuals with lived experience and this will be done through a housing affordability advisory

6:13:43group that we will be setting up shortly and we have already committed to continue to collaborate

6:13:49with the county strategy we have had we have initiated conversations with the county prior to this

6:13:57to highlight how we can best address housing across the entire housing so just to quickly

6:14:06summarize those three takeaways the first takeaway creating a housing affordability strategy is a top

6:14:14priority for the city the timeline to complete the strategy has been thoughtfully prepared

6:14:21and takes into consideration staffing capacity as well as the need to create a strategy that

6:14:26doesn't miss anything we have accelerated the timeline as much as possible but we want to make

6:14:32sure we're covering all our bases as a side note depending on the success of our housing

6:14:38accelerator fund application some of the items identified in the timeline and project goals

6:14:44and deliverables may be accelerated but again we do wait for that announcement sometime in the fall

6:14:52so with that that third takeaway is that we are looking forward to building strong relationships

6:15:00with those in our community through the preparation of this excuse me the strategy because we are

6:15:06very aware that it needs to reflect the collective voice of our community so thank you very much

6:15:12for your time this evening and i'm happy to answer any questions thank you kushla and uh

6:15:20on behalf of council you did a great job on your first presentation there so

6:15:25thank you very very much thank you to staff for the report uh is there any questions uh first

6:15:30of all would someone be willing to move the receipt uh i saw Councillor Poussettill i'll go to uh

6:15:36a little screen here Councillor Klassen there can second it but uh i ask questions to you as well

6:15:43first go right ahead thank you very much for the report um this question i really honestly

6:15:50don't know the answer to i think was the 2017 uh report from the city use the provincial definition

6:15:57of affordability and since we're not sure what exactly that looks like my question is do we need

6:16:04the provincial definition of affordability um and or is it possible for the city to determine its

6:16:11own definition of affordability um and you know it could affordability not be the floor

6:16:21the baseline and the city uh determined that the difficulty i have with these provinces definition

6:16:27of affordability is what's how it's defined is really contextual uh by where you live and what

6:16:34what's happening there so if you can and again i i don't know the answer to this i'm just curious

6:16:38about that through the mayor to the councillor um so at this point in time we are continuing with the

6:16:46income-based definition that's currently what we reported in our growth management strategy

6:16:51that was published i think in june this year and in that strategy we noted both the income-based

6:16:59affordability and market-based affordability so i think going forward in this strategy if

6:17:04the definition does change we do know that income-based is incredibly important for true affordability

6:17:11so we will be reporting on both regardless of a change in definition so we'll report on the stats

6:17:17for both just a supplemental so one thing is to report and have a definition but if you're using

6:17:23that as the lens for making policy recommendations and so on there are two different things i guess

6:17:31is what i'm saying and my hope is that income even if it doesn't align with it might be greater than

6:17:39what the province sets would be my preference for policy and incentive those kinds of things

6:17:46rather than the lower through the mayor to the councillor we'll take that into consideration

6:17:53but it for us and for everybody since last october 25th i think the day after your election it's been

6:17:59a wait-and-see game uh goller and then ororak please uh thank you through your worship um thank you

6:18:08for the presentation i'm very excited to to report uh with regards to the rfp that is going out it's

6:18:15at four plus units could you give us a little more detail about what the scope of that uh just to make

6:18:21sure you know are we looking at four plexus all the way through like 12 plexus or what is in the

6:18:26scope of that review uh through you mayor guthrie to councillor goller um thank you for the question

6:18:37yeah the scope of that is just is basically to look at four plus and look at that and see

6:18:43from the consultants that will be working on it so take building on the um residential

6:18:49intensification work that was done through shaping guelph building on that and to see what um

6:18:55where gentle density works best within the city of guelph and under what conditions

6:18:59may need to change um in order to to encourage that or to allow that development to happen so at

6:19:05this point right now we're putting it at four plus and leaving it open to see um to see what what

6:19:11happens um through any technical background work or any demonstration plans perfect thank you very

6:19:17much i really appreciate that that work is going on and i look forward to seeing us it it moves along

6:19:22my second and final question is about um because i i believe you mentioned the house and affordability

6:19:30advisory group that i hadn't read on the report but you told me a little bit more about that i i

6:19:35did not see that on the through you mayor guthrie to councillor goller yeah um in the report if uh

6:19:44there's an engagement section on page seven of the report that um talks about who we would like to

6:19:51um throughout the work on this strategy and so the housey there will be an internal working

6:19:58group made up of staff um in the county and then an external advisory group made up of

6:20:04a relatively long list of of community members agencies the chamber um trying to capture everybody

6:20:14and everybody's voice um in order to help shape this strategy okay i have a couple of constituents

6:20:21who write to me regularly with lots of ideas on um is there will there be an open invitation for

6:20:27members of the public to join that we can direct them to uh or is this a targeted invitation

6:20:33to key stakeholder groups through the mayor to councillor goller um usually in our projects when

6:20:44we have um advisory groups we do do a call out for the general public representatives on that

6:20:53and other members would be invite so we do expect that um to fill um a resident experience on that

6:21:01that group that we would do a call out for that okay i look forward to hearing more about that

6:21:06thank you very much thank you worship thank you councillor goller uh over to uh oror can then

6:21:11clausen please and then after clausen i'll go to you thank you margoth 33 you to staff at the

6:21:16amoe conference there was a panel discussion and one of the panelists was um the co-chair for the

6:21:22canadian lived experience leadership network and they have a sort of a charter of rights um for people

6:21:31with lived experience or some guidelines around how to engage with folks with lived experience

6:21:36and what i found powerful in that presentation was you know it shouldn't be extractive it

6:21:41shouldn't be like come to our meeting give us what you need and then see you later so i'm wondering

6:21:47if we use that those guidelines and that charter if we're aware of it and if not if you want me to

6:21:53send it to you uh through your mayor go through to councillor work uh i i would love to be able to

6:22:01that chart to look at that and we are aware that different groups may need different ways of engaging

6:22:07with city staff and conversely we need to think of other ways and that are not traditional ways

6:22:13of engaging in order to get um all those voices as i said that we need to make this strategy

6:22:19sort of a united comprehensive strategy thank you clausen then chew thank you margoth three

6:22:33through you to staff i just had a question um i think in the presentation we you mentioned you

6:22:39know when i wrote down affordable housing has not been built in the past five years if it wasn't

6:22:44incentivized and it just got me thinking like i mean i'm assuming that we're we're and maybe you

6:22:49can confirm this that we are exploring different types of incentives but then also just thinking

6:22:54into you know other strategies that we have like you know the downtown um master parking master plan

6:23:01um and how how how does that incentivize um builders as well i just wondered if um if that's

6:23:10something that we're also going to be exploring uh through you margoth three to councillor class and

6:23:22yes those are those are all the sorts of things that we can identify through the strategies

6:23:28through some of the actions either short medium or long-term actions that will come out um of

6:23:33this strategy so again yes making sure that we're not working on this in a silo and just making sure

6:23:39that we're um getting every incentive that we can and exploring every any that we can in order to

6:23:45bring on affordable housing support itself okay thank you um and and just thinking into some of

6:23:54the other conversations that we've been having um and sorry through you margoth two staff around um

6:24:01you know this has come up in a number of conversations we've had recently with regard to

6:24:05retrofitting buildings and and will this be also something that will be explored as a potential

6:24:11incentive to um to help existing builder building owners potentially maximize um the buildings that

6:24:19are already in existence to create more units um through you margoth three to councillor class and

6:24:31i i think at this point because we are in a sort of project initiative uh any idea is on the table

6:24:38and can be explored further as we move along um as we move along into the different stages of this

6:24:43strategy thank you uh chu and then kate thank you mr mayor i'm gonna keep my remarks short because

6:24:57i'm a little tired i want to go home as well but i appreciate you guys question i'll keep my preamble

6:25:07short uh i i just wanted to touch on the work plan and the the deliverables i see that um

6:25:16some consultants will be brought on board to kind of help with uh the hr and human resources

6:25:23necessary to take on this body of work i'm just curious how uh you guys are going to allocate

6:25:30resources for doing work in-house and also delegating work to the consultant um

6:25:37and then just a very quick follow-up after that if i may through the mayor when we issue our request

6:25:48for proposal there will be a set scope for the consulting services so what we're generally looking

6:25:55for is um skill sets that are not available in-house so when we're looking for um land economics and

6:26:04real estate um advice and in terms of setting out performance for development of housing and that

6:26:10kind of thing so we will be um we're the project manager of any consulting services and they're

6:26:17generally providing support where in-house specialty is not available thank you for that um i think

6:26:25definitely that's uh work that needs to be done out of house um but i i think i would encourage uh

6:26:33if this can be an opportunity to kind of build in house capacity i think that's where

6:26:39like the best work shines to be honest with you so uh if there are opportunities for us to discuss

6:26:45ways in which we can put together demonstration plans um and and just a report that's very robust

6:26:52and made in guelph um that can stand the test of this political environment in terms of council

6:26:57i think that would be fantastic thank you yes thank you councillor Caton

6:27:04mayor staff um i too am interested in the advisory council and i just kind of wanted to call out

6:27:14that there's often a lot of intersections um within equity seeking groups and i'm just wondering

6:27:21if you've got a plan to kind of cover those and if any of our internal advisory groups are on the

6:27:27list of folks that you're going to be inviting to be on that board through the mayor we're this

6:27:35is our project initiation report there will be um a community engagement um charter put together

6:27:43for this project with our community engagement staff and um we will be following through that

6:27:48process so what you're seeing now is our general ideas but we will be going through that process

6:27:52with community engagement staff to do stakeholder analysis and develop our engagement strategy

6:28:00thank you very much and it was a great report thank you thank you council katin um

6:28:09did i see caron yes i did councillor caron thanks quick question um municipalities with

6:28:17post-secondary institutions have a very different formula for affordability because our housing market

6:28:24is driven by factors that relate to the presence of those institutions there i believe there is

6:28:30provincial organization councillor downer might know more but there's a provincial town and gown

6:28:36association it's a collection of municipalities with post-secondary um i'm just i just think that

6:28:44that that's an important engagement piece when we go out to do more data gathering gathering on the

6:28:51affordability calculations um outside of what the province is giving us through yeah through

6:29:04you america through to councillor caron thank you for that um peace and so yeah as as mentioned um

6:29:09through our engagement strategy and communication strategy we will um definitely um look into

6:29:15reaching out and working possibly with the provincial town and gown thank you

6:29:24okay great are there any other questions from my colleagues seeing none i have two quick two quick

6:29:30ones um the first one is it shouldn't be a surprise to you i'm looking at the timeline

6:29:37and their staff are already smiling um i can can we go faster then i know you've said that you're

6:29:47going as fast i i get it i just wondering like is there a way that we can can try to go faster

6:29:55recognizing we have to wait a little bit for the province to give us some kind of definitions

6:29:59that we've been asking for for 10 months but uh other than that can we do a little bit more

6:30:06more quicker turnaround thank you marica three and yes we did anticipate this question coming our way

6:30:14um so we're also aligning it with the the county's process as well to make sure we've covered off

6:30:20the entire continuum when we report back and they're looking at you know through 2024 for their

6:30:25process so we're we are working together on that um and we are hoping that you know that we'll get

6:30:30some positive results from the half funding and that will accelerate segments quicker but we we

6:30:35still need to make sure we look holistically at this so it might come in segments depending on half

6:30:42funding but we will we will work with it and we'll definitely work with our community partners on

6:30:46the entire continuum okay great and so then you good segue right into my last question which was

6:30:53I just wanted clarity based on your presentation placed based on the report

6:30:58and how it's kind of broken out into these kind of sections or these phases will there be some

6:31:04actual direction and action that you could come back to council on through these phases before

6:31:12the actual end result and of course the biggest one I'm looking for is the over four or more

6:31:19units available which so many cities are moving forward faster on than us so I'm just wondering

6:31:26where where we are on on on that not that particular one just giving that as an example like

6:31:32is that is that your expectations if things come to a point of asking for direction or action

6:31:38you'll bring it forward I just want to make sure that's that's going to happen yeah through

6:31:42Mayor Guthrie so we definitely won't hold everything back to the end so as it comes forward

6:31:47well we'll bring it forward as we all know though the comprehensive zoning bylaws also

6:31:52under appeal so introducing new components is a bit messy and we found that out at our last

6:31:58council meeting but we will continue to advance what we feel is important for the city the same

6:32:03way we did with the recommendation that came last time that's good that's perfect thank you for

6:32:08that clarity and thank you for the presentation is there anything further at all I don't see anything

6:32:13okay it's already been moved and seconded is there anyone that needs to have a comment at all

6:32:20doesn't look like it so I will say on behalf of council many thanks because it was a great

6:32:26report I did hear a few of my colleagues say that thank you for the presentation and Kusho

6:32:31very nice to meet you thank you again for for coming and being a part of the team here we look

6:32:35forward to what you're doing and so with that I'll call the vote is anyone against okay that's nobody

6:32:43so that's passed unanimously as well wow that's a lot of housing discussion tonight

6:32:50that's that's a lot but so important so thank you I'm gonna now just look to council Gibson to help

6:32:57help us move the bylaws

6:33:03that's okay I'll help you bylaw number 2023-20829

6:33:09um and I had a bylaw to confirm the proceedings of the meeting of Guelph City Council held

6:33:16September 12th 2023 are you willing to move that councillor Gibson I am thank you thank you

6:33:22how about your ward mate there uh wanting to second that would you be okay with that councillor

6:33:27kateen perfect anything further on the bylaws hearing seeing none I'll call the vote anyone

6:33:34against the bylaws that is unanimous thank you so much I have uh several announcements I'm just

6:33:43kidding I'm looking for a motion for adjournment councillor Goller councillor downer's hand has

6:33:50never gone up so fast in my life lightning there's a lightning lightning bolt over there

6:33:55who's against uh who's against adjournment that's nobody that means we're done have a great night

6:34:02everyone thank you for everyone for sticking it out and uh stay safe bye bye mr mayor