Municipal Property and Building Commemorative Naming Committee

0:51That's it.

0:52You're right, you're right.

0:53You're right, you're right.

0:54I'm supposed to...

0:55I'm sorry.

0:56Hello.

0:56There.

0:57How are you?

0:58Good, how are you?

0:59Good.

1:00Make yourself comfortable.

1:03I'm thinking, by the way.

1:04It's me too, I'm Carrie.

1:05Carrie, okay.

1:06I'm in the clerk's office.

1:09Carrie's gonna keep us on track.

1:11Okay.

1:24Is there a washroom in there?

1:26I guess there is, just back there, that door.

1:29Okay.

1:29And then your first lap.

1:31Yeah.

1:40Thank you.

1:42Nice to see you.

1:43Hi there.

1:44How are you?

1:44Good, how are you?

1:45Just fine, thanks.

1:47I'm Carrie from the clerk's office.

1:49Oh, good to meet you, Carrie.

1:50I'm Dawn.

1:50Hi, I'm Yussel.

1:51The curator at Most of the Museums?

1:53Oh, please.

1:54Yeah.

1:55I like it.

1:56Those are great though.

1:58Yeah.

2:00Yep, it's nice to be here.

2:01It's warm in here.

2:02It is warm in here, it's adorable.

2:04To be honest.

2:05I don't know, I'm not often in this room.

2:08Yeah, well, I guess I'm not often in here,

2:10but I usually find it freezing in City Hall

2:13no matter where I am.

2:13Oh, okay.

2:14You know, it's beautiful outside

2:16and I have the great fortune

2:17of spending most of my day by the river.

2:19Oh, love it.

2:20Do we just do products?

2:21One of the products,

2:22I'm not sure if Liam's gonna join us for ice cream.

2:24Okay.

2:25So it feels good to be, you know,

2:29having spent a day in the such as today outside.

2:31It was an outside thing.

2:33A regular day too.

2:34Yeah.

2:35Hi, I'm Cameron.

2:37Cameron, good to meet you in person.

2:39Yes, I know.

2:50There's a plug in the middle.

2:52Oh yeah.

2:53Yeah.

2:54But there's, actually there's one behind you.

2:57It's, we're going to do the same

3:04in a little practice always, meetings.

3:08Oh my God.

3:09It's nothing.

3:10Okay, we'll be forgiving.

3:15That's a plus.

3:21I'm Megan.

3:22Yeah, I'm Megan.

3:23It's me, it's me.

3:23Yeah.

3:25Hi, Megan.

3:26Hi, John.

3:26John, good to meet you.

4:02Yep.

4:03I'm currently in the oven.

4:10I'll say my wife is super pregnant right now.

4:13So I get a, oh, I may as well be pregnant like this.

4:15No, I'm not.

4:16So I'm sure it's fine to do it.

4:18Oh well.

4:1938 weeks now, so.

4:20Oh wow.

4:21Okay.

4:22Okay.

4:22Yeah.

4:23We'll try to make this as quick as possible.

4:25Thanks.

4:30Online, I think we'll exit.

4:35Close Liam's phone gun.

4:35Okay, great.

4:36Yeah.

4:37Hi there, Liam.

4:38If you can hear us, can you just turn your camera on

4:40so we can see you?

4:42Yes.

4:44In fact, I'm not used to whether.

4:48There you are, perfect.

4:52Hi, Liam, how are you?

4:54Thank you for changing this to virtual.

5:00I'm not feeling great, but.

5:03That's where you, thanks for joining us anyways.

5:06In your ill state.

5:10My pajamas.

5:12So I don't think there's any delegations and I don't know

5:25if anyone's going to join us online from the, from the public.

5:29Cause we only just made this change yesterday to a virtual

5:33meeting, so I don't know if anyone's caught on that or not.

5:37So that, that's might be a good thing if it's just a quiet

5:44meeting and then you guys can really talk.

5:50Just, just as a reminder, Don and I are here as a staff

5:56as a staff leads on.

5:57So we're here to support you, but we can't sway your decisions

6:02or any discussions that you're having amongst the applications

6:05that you have in front of you.

6:07And I know on the agenda that was set out, there was sort of a

6:12potential end to this meeting.

6:18To sort of say, you know, this committee recommends, we don't

6:21need to get to that point today.

6:23If there's no, you'll get to that.

6:26I don't feel pressured that you have to come up with a name

6:28tonight.

6:29If you want further information or you want further time to

6:34think about something, we can do that.

6:37For ceremonial purposes, we'll just wait a couple more minutes.

6:46Yes.

6:47I'm sorry.

6:48Yeah, sorry.

6:53Just get this one out of the way.

6:54No, that's perfect.

6:56A lot of members of the public attend these in the past or

7:00no, no, never actually, no one's ever attended a meeting

7:06committee meeting.

7:10Quite honestly, this is the first year or so that's being this

7:13formal in the past is being quite informal and tonight to be

7:16informal too, like you can feel free to talk amongst yourselves

7:20and openly.

7:21But yeah, tonight's being just an open sort of forum.

7:26Carrie, can I just ask, is it being like recorded?

7:32Like, could the public watch it after?

7:35Yes.

7:36So because we had to go.

7:38Have we stayed just in person only it wouldn't have been

7:41recorded, but because we had to do the hybrid version, we have

7:45the ability to record it.

7:47So proceed really, we have to then so we'll post the video online.

7:51Probably tomorrow.

7:53So it is visible to the general public.

7:58So maybe my jerky is in cues, but, but I can't say that anybody

8:03has been actually go looking for it.

8:05I would be impressed if they did.

8:07That being said.

8:09Yeah.

8:10Unless you picked a name that was very controversial.

8:12Right.

8:13Yes.

8:15True.

8:16So I might want to know how you got there.

8:18And forgive me if this was shared.

8:20I just missed it, but in the agenda, there's a motion to

8:29approve the immediate minutes of the last meeting.

8:32Were they sent out right after the last meeting?

8:35They were also attached to the agenda.

8:37Oh, they're attached to the agenda.

8:39Okay.

8:40I see.

8:41I just scrolled you.

8:42Okay.

8:43Thank you.

8:44I was like, okay, I'm the agenda.

8:46I'm just going to go ahead and say, okay, I'm going to go ahead and

8:56say, okay, I'm going to go ahead and say, okay, I'm going to go ahead

8:59and say, okay, I'm just going to press that.

9:02I was like, okay, I'm the agenda.

9:13Great.

9:14So it's five o'clock as the chair.

9:16If you would like to call the meeting to order all yours.

9:19I guess I will call the meeting to order.

9:24At five o'clock on September 4, 2020 or.

9:37Do you have a copy of the.

9:39I know you're going to ask that. And of course I.

9:43Don't have it open. Okay. Does somebody else want to read it? I do have a printed copy.

9:50I do want to read it.

9:52Thank you.

9:54As we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in Guelph, a city built over rich indigenous history.

10:02We are guests here and we should reflect upon responsibility to care for this land.

10:06People who live here today and the generations to come.

10:09If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation, we should take pause and make those decisions with attention and gratitude.

10:16This place we call Guelph has served as regional lands and it placed the refuge for many peoples over time.

10:22But more specifically, Dada Rondrag and the Harunashan, the land is held as treaty lands and territory with Mississaugas at the credit frustration.

10:31Guelph is directly adjacent from the Hulmanala track and is part of the long-established traditional Hundigrad with six nations of the Grand River.

10:39Many First Nations, Inuits, M.T. people have come from the cross-Tribal island called Guelph-Hulman today.

10:56And then just are there any disclosures of any area interests or general nature there?

11:02I'm saying that. Perfect.

11:05And then just get the minutes out of the way. So you'll need a mover and a seconder for the approval of minutes from April 10th, 2024.

11:15Perfect. Excellent.

11:20Anyone oppose those minutes?

11:24The bigger bit.

11:28You're more than welcome to go into your discussion.

11:31Sure, I can.

11:36If you don't mind, we all just for the record, I'm just going to stay while we're here. Just to remind everyone while we're here and just make it formal.

11:46If you don't mind, chair.

11:49Sure, just 2 seconds. Obviously, we're we're here to discuss the naming of the court right East subdivision park.

11:58Which is fronted on 2 sides by Ambrose Crescent and John Brabison Crescent.

12:06The park is 1.02 hectares in size.

12:12The city in early July sent out just over 270 notices to surrounding.

12:21Homes in the area requesting that they fill out the application.

12:27For suggested or recommended names for this park.

12:31And we also had.

12:34Notice on the city of wealth website and our social media.

12:38Accounts of our request from city staff to or by this committee to suggest names to this park.

12:47And that went up for 3 weeks in early July as well. So.

12:52We received 16 applications that are in front of this committee today for discussion.

12:59And I'll send it back to you, Mr. Chair.

13:05I don't know how Cameron and Megan, how you would like to go about it. I don't know if you have.

13:13Maybe sort of your top 2 or 3 names that you are sort of proposing.

13:19Yeah, there's a list like the list is.

13:22There's a number that are in my opinion, not suitable.

13:27So maybe Megan, if you want to just rhyme off through your top.

13:32Number 3, I kind of went for the assessment of it and I think the top 2 for me are.

13:40The key neck, which I understand that because that's an indigenous name, we should probably be seeking to just consultation if we went with that. So it's got overall reading. I.

13:52Graded at 91, which is debatable, but I would like to talk through that 1, just because.

13:59It does make sense to try and have some indigenous naming in wealth and also because there was 2 other applications that were looking for turtle.

14:09I don't know if turtle theme is possible with like the playground as we're expecting, but.

14:13It kind of does tie together for at least 3 of the applications.

14:17So that 1 and then the other 1 will be Robert munch. We have 2 submitted on this 1 and also it's on our reserve list.

14:24The rating that I found on the scoring matrix for that was 103, which is quite high. I think.

14:32And I feel like it's a really good time if it makes sense for someone else that Robert munch is still alive, but he has dementia. So he might be at the time when his life where he would recognize this happening.

14:44But it might not be around for much longer. So, I don't think there's anything named after him involved at this point.

14:51Though he is widely renowned and known in Canada. So he has lots of awards and different things.

14:59So those are my top 2 and I'm happy to discuss and he had it as well.

15:06I can jump into I guess so, yes, for me.

15:10My top was definitely the turtle part combination may connect.

15:14It's that possible I guess they're them together just.

15:17Given is it sort of a direct translation? Um.

15:21But yeah, other than yeah, I told us the benefits are the point of the Robert munch 1 as well, but other than turtle partner, I'm really stood him to me that much.

15:31To be honest, is it.

15:36It's 3, what is naming things after people and.

15:40Like, kind of settler based names and sort of.

15:43I don't know that's what to me to make an act with the indigenous focus name might be might be interesting choice here.

15:51Uh, I might ask for Don or Roy's opinion. I know in the last round when we were naming stuff, someone had proposed.

16:00An indigenous name and we were.

16:04Maybe sensitive around whether or not to use.

16:08Indigenous words for naming stuff.

16:12Yeah, if I recall, I think somebody had proposed out of wandering.

16:18Which is the people and not it is obviously.

16:23A native based in a native language as well, but it's in this case, I think it's a.

16:30An animal, obviously my.

16:35My sense is that I agree with you. I think we would have to undertake a consultation.

16:41We can't just use a word that none of us in the language that none of us speak in a culture that none of us live with us. Absolutely critical. And that does invite.

16:51Process that so I would, you know.

16:56Want to suggest that if there is time.

17:00And care and space for that process to be undertaken that would do that do that purposely authentically.

17:09And the outcome may be that it's not the right like that the community tells us it's not the right approach.

17:16And we have to be open to that outcome.

17:20Yeah, so, so I think the end is that ring of L in terms of the last it was some years ago, right? That we have that. Yeah.

17:27Yeah, and I think you're right. It was more about like.

17:30The people rather than a word from.

17:34I guess there's something about.

17:39City or committee suggesting a specific word.

17:43In indigenous language that might it might be better that they suggest.

17:48Yeah, and I did it did certainly.

17:54Pop out at me this application because I thought that's interesting and the 2 previous recommendations for turtle part or something along those lines.

18:02And then, you know, I look to see who made the application and I didn't immediately recognize them as somebody that I.

18:11No, from indigenous community not to say that they're not a member of that community. So I think 1 of the approaches could be that we would talk to the nominator.

18:20And ask them how they can to know that word and.

18:25You know, invite there if we were to undertake that process, because it does for consultations.

18:30All that right and then they could guide us through the knowledge that they hold.

18:35And if it is, if it is sort of into our knowledge and surround this table, then we would need to.

18:42I think we would naturally need to to, you know, through the fresh indigenous.

18:50Consultation framework that's newly in place we would want to honor that process. They explore it. So.

19:00Yeah, I think I think that's a good.

19:03A good process to go down I know in speaking with our manager of parks planning the indigenous consultation process is going to be part of this part of design.

19:16So they are going to be part of the discussion.

19:19We might be able to sort of fast track and.

19:25Come in a bit faster with with a.

19:27Discussion with them about the name of it, which then may also help to, you know, and if they were agreeable to.

19:33The name or another suggested name, then that might help sort of spur on the design of the park as well.

19:40And then when when parks planning goes out.

19:44To the public about the consultation about the design of the park that might just help to sort of set the stage.

19:51Yeah, because I was going to mention that that all at least the other 2 turtle turtle submissions were.

19:59And I'm implying that they wanted this part to be designed with like turtles and stuff in it. So it would make sense that that's all tied in with.

20:07That process to see we name it something and then they're obviously going to try and follow.

20:12In some way, if they can, I don't know the order the operations it, but that the art design kind of goes with that.

20:22I think that's really exciting to hear that that those processes are in like intertwined and I wonder if.

20:32I don't think we're too late in the process, I would suggest to actually just.

20:36You know, bring the same set of questions that were invited from the neighborhood to to the.

20:43Indigenous community and and say to them, would they know through this process as they.

20:49Think about their relationship to that particular place, what it what it means for each of them, what it means for them collectively.

20:57They're not a homogenous group by any stretch. So there's going to be lots of experience and diverse and opposing views and like views.

21:06And I wonder if, for example, it would be better to not sort of give them.

21:13Turtle or turtle as a reference, but to invite sort of a naming of place.

21:18Inspired by this nomination, which I think is interested in honoring that earlier history and also the continued and future.

21:28Relationships we have with that with that past. So.

21:35But I know it's sort of undoes a little bit of the process that we've.

21:39That we've already taken through this formal exercise in the neighborhood itself.

21:43For sure, I think, I think reaching out to the applicant who proposed.

21:50The name would be the 1st step to see if, you know, like you said, don't.

21:56How they came about the name, if they are a part of that community.

22:02And take it from there and then I think it would be, you know, I think.

22:05If someone from the committee can do that and do a little bit more research on that piece of the puzzle, that would be great.

22:14From the city's perspective, I'm more than happy to reach out to our contacts.

22:20In the indigenous community and talk with our.

22:24With our service department that deals directly with this, how we should best approach this.

22:32I don't want to, I think it would be good to go to the indigenous groups with maybe we've got these applications.

22:41And we want to know what you think of them.

22:47And ask them if they think they're appropriate or if there's something else that they would suggest.

22:51Just so that we don't disregard the applications that we've.

22:55Seed as this, I mean, the naming committee has its own policy.

23:00That's been approved by council, so I don't want to destroy that that process. But I think it's it would be a stepping stone to coming up with.

23:10With an approval or support from that community.

23:14Before we ever made a recommendation to council, so that we had that.

23:19So, like I said, if someone from the committee wants to do a little bit more research on how these these applications came about, these name suggestions came about.

23:30I can start the like work at the other end.

23:34And see if there can be a.

23:37A meeting with that group and this committee.

23:43And see if they can come up with a resolution.

23:45And that 1, that looks for.

23:48It could be that the.

23:56Providence or through an indigenous lens, it could.

24:00Be that the timing needed to make a recommendation on a name.

24:05Might not easily align with the timing of this committee's work or the timing meeting that's built into the park itself. And it's, you know, that's all it's the fiscal.

24:16So, I just want to say that out loud for the record that I think we should be.

24:21I think we should be really accommodating.

24:26Because to just to invite a community of people that is in and of itself, extremely diverse to way.

24:33To offer an opinion, let's say, I think.

24:38Names are not casually given.

24:41So, I don't know that that process will be swift and just wanting to share that as a perspective.

24:48Yeah, I think it's an interesting perspective to just potentially.

24:54They needed more time to think about it and we.

24:56We had to name this park at some deadline.

25:00We could say, okay, the next park, but then that might be a totally different area. I want to do totally different name anyway. So it might not.

25:08It might be a tricky thing, but I think we still need to find a way to have this happen in the next like in this year or the next few years, because.

25:15It's like, we read the statement like we're trying to, you know, do move these things forward and we don't have any parts that have indigenous needs as well as far as I can tell. So, or any.

25:27Direct ties to indigenous populations. So.

25:30It's a really good starting point.

25:32I think it's also fair to consider that the answer might be thanks, but no thanks. We're not interested in that in that process because it still is is a built municipal structure that in some respects.

25:47Might be counter to some needs and issues from within that community. That's true. So I just don't want to go in sort of like blazing with this great idea. We have to name a park in a language that is an arrow from the culture that we don't live in.

26:02Um, and assume that the folks who do speak the language and are within the culture.

26:10Might even think this is a good idea. So.

26:12I just caution that he tread with all of those sort of awarenesses.

26:18And then that we're clear about our intentions as a committee, because I think.

26:23You know, if we clearly articulate in this conversation, why.

26:28This proposal excites us and is inspiring this dialogue in this journey. Then I think we're doing.

26:35You know, we're honoring the process in a good way and then we're open to any outcome.

26:41You know, whatever that may be and that feedback feedback will be critical on the week of the meeting in this park, but also future forward.

26:49As we're doing this work as we're collaborating outside of this committee and with the larger community we're doing it in a good way.

27:04Well, I was looking at research on these names. I noticed that the university, well, I recently renamed the history of the way language.

27:13The earlier this year, interesting to see how they kind of look about that process. That's kind of like a built asset as well.

27:20Natural space.

27:22Is that where they have a shock? Yeah.

27:27So I think that I mean, I don't know. I wasn't part of that process, but I, and I do think, you know.

27:34There's lots of dialogues, I think, between capital C city and capital university that happened and the host of different ways. And I'm, what's upon the time? I also worked at the university and was part of that other side of conversation.

27:47And then of course lots of that I'm not personally aware of, but I will say that.

27:52You know, there are numerous indigenous scholars, numerous language programs, numerous communities of people within the canvas who are.

28:04You know, collaborating in a host of ways and I could see an outcome like this being part of a much longer journey. It feels sort of new because we're just seeing another press release. But.

28:16But I completely respect your interest because yeah, better understanding how they approach.

28:22Like, what was the journey that led to this opportunity to actually.

28:26Gift that place with the name is, it's pretty extraordinary. So to understand that better would be.

28:32It may be years.

28:34Likely years. Yeah.

28:43So Cameron, did you have like a secondary 1?

28:50I kind of didn't really rank him. I had a bunch of ones that were like, definitely no.

29:06And not.

29:15For me, it was similar to Megan, like Robert crunch was sort of.

29:23Up of mind because he's also on the reserve list.

29:28And then the only other ones were.

29:31It's sort of highlighted lowest betterage was also on the reserve list.

29:38And Marisi Scott.

29:42So, it's 1 of my list. My perspective on that was just trying to.

29:48Have more assets in the city named after.

29:52Women or people of color.

29:57Most better it was a silver.

30:03I think absolutely deserving of recognition in some way.

30:07But I just wonder if a park is the right asset.

30:14I just, I'm not sure that's the.

30:17The best fit. She does have family still in the community.

30:23And, but I do believe her.

30:27Her grandchildren are outside of the community.

30:31I'm just trying to think of those sort of youth relationship to the place and I know she made her home downtown.

30:38So like outside of the immediate area.

30:41But she's an extraordinary person. I knew her for many years and.

30:47Absolutely deserving and then Marie spot was the.

30:57It probably came through as we were doing stuff during COVID.

31:02So she was one of Canada's 1st black nurses.

31:08Who studied it well because there were other nursing schools who wouldn't accept her.

31:14But and I actually, when we were in our last dialogue, I think we learned that she was still living into her 90s.

31:22So I don't think she's passed. I think she's still with us at least to have her.

31:25She has so that would be also interesting to.

31:33Honor her with the name with a naming by naming an asset, but again, it's a hard to the right fit.

31:40Because I see the naming as an opportunity to tell a story.

31:44And of course, the name itself gives us that.

31:49And I know the journey you've been on, Marie, trying to get these, even the stories from 2021 told in the way that they need to be told.

31:57That's a huge amount of work. I just, yeah, it's an alignment. I think, and you know, is this the best opportunity?

32:05This is the best space to be able to kind of inspire knowledge of those particular people.

32:12The extraordinary things that they achieve.

32:16I was, so not to like derail everything, but 1 name that sort of came to mind as I was reading through these was Beverly Mattson.

32:29So Beverly Mattson came to Guelph in 1967. She was a teacher librarian at Ottawa Crescent Public School.

32:36She was involved with Guelph Little Theater and some other theater groups as well as Rainbow Day Camp.

32:46So she's part of the Guelph Guild of storytellers. And so they tell stories in parks.

32:53In 2017, she got a lifetime achievement award from the Guelph Music Centre for work with children in the dramatic arts.

33:01And then in August of 2023, there was a news article about her telling her last sort of tea and tales, which is her storytelling in parks.

33:12So I don't want to derail things, but I just thought between her and sort of Robert Munch with the children parks, that kind of theme.

33:23Yeah, I like that Robert Munch and Beverly Mattson because they're children storytellers.

33:30I'm trick. Yeah.

33:31I was into a park, but I also was thinking when I was driving here that I don't know if this is possible or what happens, but eventually like what when a new libraries built, like, would it make more sense to name something after them in a library setting?

33:45Potentially, I don't know. That's like, who knows what's going to happen there. But I was just thought too.

33:52Yes, that will probably come across this to me at some point in the near future too. The name of library square.

34:03Which is the open space just to the door of the library. So, unless the library has.

34:10A set aim that they want to give it to.

34:14But there's always, there's a, the policy allows the committee to name not only just parks, but rooms within buildings. Right. Mark McKinnon room and things like that.

34:24It can be any asset of the city almost after someone or something.

34:30So, it's your point negative might be.

34:33I'd be better to name a room or like a lot like something within the library or.

34:38Yeah.

34:40The thought.

34:41The library has a lot of potential names they would like to provide.

34:52Are there no assets named for Robert much already?

34:56None.

34:57That's why he's on the list.

35:01I was even just like looking to see if in Canada, there was a park name after something, but.

35:10Definitely parks.

35:15I'm here to your personal.

35:18I don't know if there's anything.

35:21I'm a big Anna, Robert lunch and I grew up with his books and my daughter and now growing up his books. It's just such a cool part of history.

35:45So, where should we leave it?

35:50With the, the indigenous.

35:54Name and see what direction that goes in now that we've.

35:59We've all thought that was an interesting name option. I think.

36:02We can't just ignore it now. So, we need to go forward with looking into that, I guess, and then.

36:10I'm not sure what that means for the timelines and stuff though, if there's.

36:13That pushes things back if they.

36:15If it needs time for also discussions on that.

36:19Is there like, do we have a deadline for this?

36:23Carrie and I were talking about that before so.

36:26Parks planning will probably go out to public early next year for design consultation.

36:33It's always nice to have a name attached, but it's not.

36:36Do or die so.

36:38Obviously, we need to name the park before the park is open.

36:43But it's done. We don't have to.

36:48We're not within, you know, we have some, we have some wiggle room.

36:52If this committee is wanting to go back just to see what the opportunities are.

36:58Start that conversation with the indigenous groups about.

37:02Possible opportunities there.

37:06I'll just put it to the committee is there are there any other names or suggested names that.

37:13You feel.

37:15Are your 2nd and 3rd picks that you would want to do further research on so that you could feel confident that if.

37:23They had to be chosen that you feel comfortable recommending those to council.

37:29And you'd have enough background to.

37:32The information to provide council.

37:35Because we might as well just do it now if, if, if.

37:39Yeah, to do it all sort of all now and then be able to come back as a committee with that research in hand and.

37:47For the discussions about options.

37:50I'm.

37:51Was a question that it might inform that I'm just wondering about the committee's feelings around.

37:58Turtle in English as, as a name or an origin of a name for the park because there were 2 other.

38:05Nominations for turtle turtle park. It's a question I had about that. Do we know are there actually a lot of turtles in that narrative? Like.

38:14It's going to suggest that if we might turtle or team rather like turtle in its intention, it does, you know, cheese.

38:24I think also maybe I'll phrase it this way. If we are interested in an indigenous word for turtle.

38:31But we're not interested in the word turtle.

38:34Then I think that's a problem. I think that's a new flight because then what are we actually saying? What are we interested in? So I do think we have to be clear.

38:42I just posing posing this as a, as a thought process.

38:46And then, you know, I recall actually in our last discussion, but I'm looking at you, Lea, I'm in the room because we were in those together.

38:54I believe there we had an extended dialogue around salamander.

39:00Naming for another part of the city and there was.

39:05Conservative effort at that particular site to conserve and preserve.

39:11The land as the park and other infrastructure is being built so that the habit does that salamander have to have would be retained. So I would just want that intention.

39:20You know, if we're going to use turtle, I mean, and 1 application did say that there were turtle crossing signs.

39:26You know, in the area and so I think it would. So that the educational opportunities to.

39:33You know, part of the story of the site is to talk about why.

39:37We're naming for the turtle and is it a particular turtle.

39:41That lives in that area and what do we need to know about it and actually is it successfully thriving? You know, or if it is, you know, I think those.

39:50That is a good point, right? Yeah.

39:53Yeah, so the park is divided by a low area, which is sort of a swampy area.

40:07And there is a walkway block that's of vicex the park.

40:11It is sort of a restoration naturalized area.

40:15So there could be potential for for turtles.

40:18Again, I'm more than happy to see if I can dig up any of the environmental studies that were done as part of the subdivision to see if.

40:29There were turtles in the area and what species they were and if they're still doing well in the area or anyone's monitoring them.

40:38So I can I can do that bit of background check for you. So I have access to those reports.

40:44And if I do, I will share this with.

40:48Not to overthink it, but if we.

40:56Find that there are turtles there and.

41:00The indigenous community is not supportive of us using.

41:05An indigenous name and we go ahead and we call it turtle park.

41:09Is that a bit of a like a spot in the face a little bit?

41:20I think it's hard to, it's probably not productive to speculate what that outcome of those conversations will be.

41:27I think we just need to be clear about, you know, why are we inspired by the proposal.

41:34Of an indigenous word to name the park.

41:39And is it just coincidental that we have turtle as that recommendation along with 2 other recommendations that simply said turtle.

41:48From people who live in the neighborhood, right? So I would have to think that there's some awareness of.

41:54Turtle population, right? So I think.

41:59You know, doing our due diligence if we are equally interested in a potential turtle.

42:05Name sake, but setting aside.

42:09Indigenous language for a moment.

42:11I think that we have to just know and understand.

42:16What is the story? What is the narrative we're trying to.

42:19Herry into that space and share with people because there will be a plaque that talks about why the park was named.

42:25What it is and if there is a high population of turtles and they bring great joy to the neighborhood.

42:35And, you know, it gives us an opportunity to hold up a non human relation. I think.

42:42That's a beautiful pick. Right. I think we just have to.

42:46You know, this committee has to feel that that makes sense.

42:50And it's the reason why the nation is being made.

42:55And then I think we don't try to speculate about what may or may not happen. Um, these are the consultation with indigenous community. I think we, we earnestly and openly.

43:06And with open hearts and minds asked for their input and guidance inspired by this nomination.

43:14And if there's capacity for that to happen.

43:18And we'll, from a community to do it, then they will.

43:23And if not, then we'll learn from that process and be able to make an informed decision.

43:28Do you like turtle? Do you like the intention of turtle?

43:43So, it sounds like it's hard for kids or something. I don't know. Yeah. If it can. Yeah, I think it's the same thing as if the.

43:52If the intention is to make it a name that's.

43:56Interesting to children, is it just called turtle park and there's just playground or is all tied together. It's a matter of being obviously cool.

44:04Nice, but the other thing on that is maybe we can even go with something like turtle crossing or something just to make it a bit more of an interesting name. If you're going to.

44:13Make it if it's not going to be after a person something else.

44:20So we have just made this worse more options.

44:25It's just your conversation. You make it as complicated as you want.

44:29Can we suggest like modifications or.

44:32Slight changes to the suggested names.

44:35Yeah, I mean, in the past, we've done that to make it.

44:41Yeah, make it.

44:44Better for all purposes or from an emergency standpoint.

44:49They get easier to provide that information with emergency services. So.

44:54But I don't think we're quite there yet. No, no. When you mentioned the salamander park name, what happened with that 1?

45:08That would actually that we didn't end up actually.

45:11Choosing that name for any of those assets, but.

45:16I just called for that dialogue that we have had this time because I was thinking the same thing. Although that application, I think the person who was making the application had done some research about.

45:28And I've written that into the proposal and I, I mean, I think the 2 turtle nominations are sort of light.

45:35Applications, right? There's not a lot of narrative added. Yeah.

45:39And I just it was just a question of hanging by food for me.

45:44And when I was practicing out the scoring majors, I thought, well, we start scoring very high.

45:50On my end, not that, you know, not that I'm weighing judgment in that way, but I needed to sort of know how I was receiving.

45:58Against scoring majors and I did remind me also of 1 of our previous committee conversations that we had around sort of.

46:06You know, how the questions opposed to.

46:10Community and.

46:14You know, even the salamander isn't going to be, you know, isn't isn't going to score a high on.

46:20You know, service to community writing.

46:24You know, hit store, I mean, you can conceptualize a lot of that and I'm a curator. I get it. I can conceptualize a lot of things and start to make them fit the.

46:33But, but I think that, you know, maybe, and we hadn't gotten to that place and a lot of that happened in the meantime, but.

46:42I think 1 of the things that that earlier committee was looking at was maybe changing some of the language around.

46:49How we invite naming or asking people to.

46:55You know, elaborate intentionally on why, you know, why are they inspired around certainly.

47:01Because really again, the story making that is the opportunity, right? The part is being built. It's going to be there. People in the neighborhood are going to use it. So why? What is the work of this committee? I would suggest that.

47:14In part, it's a way to carry story to that space intentionally and mindfully.

47:20And to bring joy and to bring reflection and to.

47:25Invite people into different knowledge, right?

47:30And that knowledge, I think this committee's task is to.

47:34Is to fit the logic together around the story and the place.

47:39Yeah, it's a really good point. Yeah, I think we've this committee's moved towards.

47:4620 names that are educational things like you said storytelling and not just the frontage. Some of the.

47:54Some of the suggestions were just the name of the street and that's how we gained many of our parks for years and years and years. But I think it's it's nice that this committee is moving towards trying to provide an educational.

48:04So, before we buy into the park, they're learning.

48:07Yeah, yeah.

48:09I think we've been quite successful in the last couple of years doing that.

48:16And there's 3 people who are in the neighborhood are.

48:20The nomination that's in in this way around.

48:25Around the turtle, the normal turtle. So go back and see turtle. Yeah.

48:31If we can actually, can't get the turtle conservation on you. Yeah. Well, there's turtle crossing signs and we have on the city website about turtles. It says that all the.

48:41Species in Ontario are at risk doesn't say they're endangered or not. So that would be also to determine.

48:49That's different from that risk is different from a future.

48:53Yeah, we need to know what species are there. What's going on? Is it actually like.

48:59Friving or is it that they might all die off in the next 2 years and there's no turtles.

49:05Are they declining because that built right?

49:08What's gets the contract. Yeah, it wouldn't be.

49:12So, in terms of a very imposed that.

49:22You know, is committee can we can this committee sort of.

49:27Identify 1, 2, 3 proposal like a working list of.

49:32A working short list. I mean, I think the.

49:35You have to say turtle is 2nd to the.

49:40Yeah, I guess, yeah, how do we handle this?

49:46Part of the priorities can we look into the.

49:53Turtle aspect of it 1st, before we.

49:56Engage our indigenous.

49:59Yeah, we'll find out if there's turtles there.

50:05If they're thriving and all that kind of stuff before we.

50:09Go down the other path. Yeah, my only suggestion was the 1, 2, 3.

50:18We am just so that we can we can do the research now.

50:22So, like I said, I'm more than happy to dig in to the files to look for environmental studies for this subdivision.

50:30And try to dig out some information about turtles.

50:35And then I can present that to the committee or I can send that to the committee.

50:42And then if you feel so inclined and you feel like this is the way you want to go, then I can.

50:49Speak with our indigenous services department to see how we would engage.

50:58That group and sort of tell them what this committee.

51:03Is thinking and see if 1st, they think it's a good.

51:08A good way of going, obviously they would know.

51:11More than us as to how to engage and then the engagement would be a worthwhile 10.

51:18And then we can sort of take it from there.

51:21But if there was another, if there was other names that you guys are interested. Again, like I said, it would be good to gather the information about those as well. So that.

51:30When this committee comes back together.

51:33We could have those other names in our pocket if we need to.

51:39And if we, like you said, we run out of time because the.

51:42The process of going down indigenous route is going to be years in the making and that might not be an opportunity that we have here.

51:51Or it becomes back and there's no turtles there.

51:53Right, right.

51:55But are we thinking that the turtle is kind of or the, the Kenan can turtle is top 2. And then we need a 3rd then that's not that in case there's no turtle situation.

52:08I would still propose Robert Munch, but I don't know if you guys.

52:11Yeah, I agree.

52:14And then in terms of research on Robert Munch, like, there's a lot of public knowledge. So I think that would be too complicated to pull some things together.

52:23He is still with us. So I think the.

52:27That's a good point. I think we at the appropriate moment, I think.

52:31You can solve that can be pretty quick. Yeah, he would have.

52:36Yeah, you know, you know, I mean, we want to open that.

52:42True, so maybe after we've been about the turtles.

52:49Or as the process continues and we see if it's that might have to be the direction we go in and start to talk.

52:56We jump up.

52:58So, we're not going to come to a resolution tonight, but I think this is being a great conversation.

53:07I guess makes a great ideas here.

53:11So we still actually need to pass a motion.

53:14Right, which is what I've been badly typing way over here to make.

53:18Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, because the committee can actually make staff. You can't provide direction to the staff. You can't say you must go to this.

53:28So, I've got something that is that the committee request.

53:34That staff research to see if there are turtle populations at this location that would merit the naming of this park.

53:43Turtle park and request that further engagement done our indigenous community.

53:50Is that kind of encapsulate everything?

53:55Do I have that right? Does that sound? Yeah, it's so yeah.

54:00And I haven't put the rubber munch in there because I feel like the 1st to turtle park or the.

54:07Thank you are kind of your top goes and then.

54:12We can always come back because if 1st, staff does engagement and etc. and we come back and we say, you know.

54:20The indigenous community says no, and there's actually no turtles.

54:24Then we can say, okay, we're going to do Robert munch and that's her motion then. Yeah.

54:29Is that big sense to everybody? Yes. Yeah. Okay.

54:34So, I just need 1 of you to table that. Move it and second it and then we can vote on it.

54:44So, it seems really silly. I know.

54:50Great. I can second it. Okay.

54:53Everybody in agreement. Anybody opposed for all good.

55:00And do you want.

55:09Do you want a timeline on this for you guys? Like, do you want to say in motion like that you'll come back within a certain timeline? Do you want to just leave it open? That's totally up to.

55:19Guys.

55:22Why don't we leave it open for now? Carrie and see how fast I can pull the information for the committee. Once that once I'm able to grab that information.

55:34Then I'll obviously leave it up to Liam to then.

55:38Aside on 1 day, we want to meet again as the chair. Yeah.

55:42But the committee set the timeline. Okay.

55:46Okay, that works because I, I anticipate that indigenous factor being a.

55:52I wouldn't want to put a timeline on that because you don't really know the engagement.

55:58Yeah, so, so just so I'm clear, what I'm going to do is I'm going to, I'm going to dig up the environmental studies first to see if there's any turtles.

56:05If we're all comfortable that there are turtles.

56:08And everyone's comfortable with that. Then I'll take the direction to initiate conversations with our indigenous.

56:18Services department and start that conversation and see.

56:23So what the timelines would be and keep this committee up to date as to how those are going.

56:29That's okay.

56:32And then if everything falls apart, then we can refer back to Robert Munch and we can start consultation.

56:40I think that's important too.

56:42And not making feel like he's 3rd in place. Yes.

56:47I do think they live completely like they're equal.

56:50Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They just live so differently. It's very hard to be fair. The 2.

56:55I do think we need to honor Robert Munch.

56:58The city, the community needs to honor Robert Munch and be a gift to do it in his lifetime.

57:03I think that would be a great act if he agrees.

57:07Yeah, just as an overarching beyond this moment intention.

57:14It would be great to understand through the indigenous framework initiative to.

57:23To understand from that lens.

57:26You know, how the naming of municipal assets.

57:31He's aligned or not aligned with their.

57:34Wishes and tensions as community members as.

57:38As citizens, as people who who have deep ancestry.

57:43Not only in this place, but beyond world's borders, but you know.

57:49I think that's that's a much slower moving process.

57:54But I think by necessity, it needs to be that.

57:56But I think, you know, while we're undertaking this intention, I think.

58:02What will become clear is that we, if we're interested as a community in.

58:08In, you know, what's the freezing?

58:13In aligning our process with that makes sense with that community.

58:21I think it would lead to a much more fluid dialogue.

58:25So moments like this when we have, you know, neighbor folks in neighborhoods who are making

58:30nominations that appeal to committee, we have an opportunity to.

58:36You know, embrace a process that's there and ready to support that.

58:40And that might be ideal.

58:42I hope in a dream because I know there's a lot also before that community as well.

58:47And they may have many, many more and more important things than than what we're sitting

58:51before us now.

58:52But I just, you know, so we're so we're trying to get ahead of this process future for women.

58:56It would be great.

58:57Yeah.

58:58So this is a whole disalignment of like the scoring matrix and just consultation.

59:04Right.

59:04The language we use scoring matrix.

59:07We just blast that, you know, like none of that aligns.

59:10Yeah, the policies.

59:12Yeah, the policy is almost 15 years old.

59:15So yeah.

59:15Yeah.

59:16And we, you know, we don't know that.

59:18So that's what we need to do at committee level.

59:22Yeah.

59:24I'll just also remind this committee too is that if they, if there are names that come up

59:31that you think are worth naming assets after, we can always propose that as well.

59:38So we don't know this is obviously a new park, but there might be existing assets

59:42of the city or you have that are not named and that we think there might be a good fit with something

59:46with the existing name or other name.

59:50So we, that's obviously a lot of work, but if there is something that's really sticking out and

59:56you wish we had used that name, but you've, because there's another asset that might be

59:59better than we can always make that suggestion.

1:00:02Is it possible to have a list of the unnamed assets?

1:00:06City does not have a list of unnamed assets.

1:00:08It's possible thousands.

1:00:09I mean, quite honestly, it could be a hydrant, right?

1:00:14Okay.

1:00:15City assets.

1:00:15We're going to name that hydrant after.

1:00:17So, but if there are like we had named, like we, we, Mark McKinnon's family actually came to us

1:00:25and said that they wanted to name park after.

1:00:28But in fact, we had thought naming a community room because of her

1:00:34background as a councillor and not see her community work about that would be a better fit.

1:00:39I think they felt very happy with so again, if there's a name of like if you feel Robert Munch

1:00:46is, you know, we don't get there this time around, but you really feel like there might be an asset

1:00:50that we already have that might be a good fit.

1:00:52Yeah.

1:00:52We can always entertain that as well.

1:00:54Yeah, that's a good point.

1:00:55Perfect.

1:01:04Good.

1:01:05Yeah.

1:01:06Okay.

1:01:06I just need a motion to adjourn.

1:01:10Move or adjourn?

1:01:11I think Liam's seconded.

1:01:17Liam's seconded?

1:01:18Sure.

1:01:18Okay.

1:01:20Perfect.

1:01:21And anybody opposed to that one?

1:01:25Now, okay.

1:01:26I'll just figure out my input.

1:01:29You have some more important things.

1:01:31At the end one day, you and I will meet face to face.

1:01:34Yes.

1:01:40Thank you all very much for coming.

1:01:45Thank you again for accommodating me.

1:01:47That's great.

1:01:49Thanks.

1:01:51Bye.

1:01:52Bye.

1:02:01Thanks again.

1:02:06Is there any other assets coming down the pipe on the you know?