Planning Advisory Committee

0:01Thank you Dylan. Well, good evening everyone.

0:06Thank you very much for attending.

0:11I'd like to call this meeting to order.

0:15Like Dylan said, we do have form form is five so we're going to start right away and if we have anybody else coming on board. That's fantastic. If not, we carry on.

0:25So, 1st item on the agenda 1.1 indigenous territorial acknowledgement and Dylan has volunteered to read that for us.

0:34As we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in Guelph. A city built over rich indigenous history.

0:43We are guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land, the people who live here today and the generations to come.

0:50If our actions today can move us toward reconciliation, we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

0:58This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many people over time, but more specifically the Adirwander onk and the Haudenosaunee.

1:07This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the credit 1st nation.

1:12Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track and as part of a long established traditional hunting ground for the 6 nations of the Grand River.

1:20Many 1st nations, Inuit and Métis peoples who have come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today.

1:27Thank you very much.

1:30Next item of business 1.2 disclosure of Petunia.

1:36Please say somebody say that for me.

1:39Percuniary.

1:40Thank you.

1:42Interest in general nature thereof anything to anybody has to have to announce anything.

1:51Nope. Okay. Thank you.

1:53Dylan, sorry, are you taking the minutes tonight?

1:57It's a combination of me and Winnie effectively taking taking minutes, but I'll be providing any procedural advice verbally, but it's the 2.

2:04Okay.

2:05Okay, great. No, I just wanted to check that. Okay. Thank you very much.

2:09Item 1.3 approval of minutes.

2:12The copy of the minutes of our last meeting held on June 20th.

2:17We're part of the meeting package that was sent out to all of us.

2:21So I'm going to ask for someone to move.

2:24To accept the minutes as presented.

2:28Anybody move to accept.

2:30Okay.

2:34Darren.

2:35And a seconder.

2:41I think Artem is second.

2:43You moved. Sorry, I saw your hand.

2:47I see.

2:49Or Mary am I see.

2:52Okay. Justin you second.

2:55Any, any comments.

2:58Any corrections errors. Any comments.

3:02It's not all in favor raise your hands.

3:05My camera's stopped working, but my hand is up.

3:15Okay.

3:17Are you able to show yourself.

3:20For this meeting.

3:23For some reason, my camera's stopped working. So.

3:26Oh.

3:28Okay. So maybe if you can let us know if you're opposed.

3:34To anything so that we'll know to take a note of that. So you're okay with the minutes, right?

3:41Yes.

3:42Okay. There I am. We can't see you either. Are you going to try to.

3:47Get on the screen or.

3:50Hi, I'm sorry, I'm locked in from my phone. I'm still at work. But.

3:55I think there is a feature of where you could put your hands up, but I think that's been disabled.

4:02I might, I might suggest madam chair.

4:06For the purpose of votes tonight, especially for folks who don't have their cameras on.

4:10It might be easiest to suggest that we will consider it a vote in favor, unless you've unmuted to indicate that you're that you're voting against. That's consistent with the way we would handle it at at city council.

4:20Okay, well, then we'll use the same process and now we know. Great. Thanks for clarifying Dylan. So all in favor. Yes.

4:32Carried. Thank you. Lisa, I believe is still quite good on so I'll have to leave it up with this luck.

4:40I'll just carry on with meeting item number 2 on the agenda 2.1. The affordable housing community improvement plan.

4:49And James Goodrum is going to be providing this presentation for us.

4:58Is James with us. You have me today in place of James. I'm not sure if you can see me or not, but I'm Christine and.

5:08Okay, you can great. I'm a little out of practice with WebEx here. I'm teams and team certified. So, so bear with me.

5:18But you do have me today so I can start sharing my presentation. Alrighty, if I can get a thumbs up from anybody.

5:40That you're good. Okay, wonderful. So thank you so much for having me here this evening. Like I had mentioned James Goodrum is the general manager of economic development and tourism department.

5:52But he is a way on vacation this week. So you have me. My name is Christine Chapman. I am the manager of economic development and the CIP falls within with the portfolio of my division.

6:04So, this meeting is really just to be able to introduce you to the CIP program. And that's going to be going in front of council for a public delegation on November 13th.

6:17I'm here to answer any questions and certainly here to take any of your feedback.

6:24The, the official plan will be released on October 31st.

6:31So, please do provide any feedback to me today. We are on tight timelines to get this in in front of council. So, but don't hesitate to contact me afterward. This is not the only opportunity. Please feel free to reach out to me after this.

6:48And of course, there's always an opportunity to delegate at council on November 13th. So, the agenda I'm going to be going through. So what a community improvement plan is.

6:59And where it's really has been born here for the city of wealth.

7:05How we came to focus the program and the objectives of the program. And then of course, some of the programs that will be or some of the grants that are going to be proposed to be part of this.

7:17Well, first, affordable housing CIP. So.

7:21I appreciate that there may be varying levels of understanding of the planning act and those types of things. So very briefly, I'll talk about what CIP are.

7:30It's sure for community improvement plan and it's an opportunity that's provided to miss a palliades to be able to flow funds to private entities. So the municipal act does state that miss palliades are not permitted.

7:45To what we refer to as bonus. So it's providing any kind of an incentive to, to private entities, but you can develop a community improvement plan and it's part of the planning act.

7:58And it's permitted through the municipal act, but it has to be a plan that provides incentives to support some type of local need in the community.

8:09The city of wealth has implemented CIPs in the past for Brownfield redevelopment for supporting downtown renewal and the conservation of heritage assets as part of the development redevelopment of some properties.

8:23This the plan has to have a specific geography. So for this plan that we're proposing is the city of wealth boundaries.

8:34And there are a number of different types of grants or loans that can be included in the plan. So I will go over the two that we have proposed.

8:44And also, again, I'm not terribly up to speed on WebEx. So please jump in. I can't see everybody on my screen. So jump in if you have questions along the way. Don't worry about leaving it all the way to the end.

8:59Happy to answer questions as we go.

9:03All right. So wealth affordable housing CIP has been in discussion for a while, but certainly West kick started when the city received the 2.14 million dollar housing accelerator fund grant.

9:19$3.2 million of that grant has been set aside for the development of an affordable housing CIP.

9:26The timelines are somewhat tight and the plan has been developed to address that. But we are looking at supporting affordable housing at the 1 building permit is, is approved.

9:40And that has to be before the end of 2026 of December 31st, 2026.

9:46There are other, this is 1 of many half projects that are on the go that you'll be hearing about tonight. You'll be seeing in front of council for the next few months.

9:54So, of course, the housing affordability strategy, the additional dwelling unit grant, which we are looking at potentially combining as part of this CIP working very close with Lucas and Kushlaw.

10:08There's also a community permit planning system, which I believe you're hearing about today tonight as well. So we're all working in coordination with each other to try and get these programs, you know, to the to the starting line as soon as possible.

10:25So, as I mentioned, a community improvement plan has to address a particular community need.

10:31And the state of housing report that was done in 2023 identified pretty clearly for us where we have shortfall in our housing supply. We do have a need for smaller units.

10:46We also, we are seeing this being the fastest growing household type in demand. And we're expecting to see that continue to increase the need for primary rental units.

11:00So, we are looking currently at a vacancy rate at about 1.5 in 2022. And I believe it's sunk to 1.3 in 2023, which is certainly below the healthy rate of 3%. People are looking for primary rental units in our community.

11:18And of course, the need for for those units that are being rented to be affordable. We do have a target of 30% for all new residential units to be affordable. So this is going to help us be able to meet that target.

11:33And we talk about affordability. What are we, what, what specifically are we talking about in terms of affordable rents and and ownership rates?

11:44So, we take the lead here from the province. So, there are monthly rental and ownership benchmarks that are specifically set for Guelph. There are also other ones for other municipalities.

11:56And you can see them here based on the size of the unit that we're looking at, you know, our smallest unit at bachelor apartment is 1160 per month. And we're looking at the ownership of an apartment at just under 400,000.

12:15Now, as the province continues to update these, so too will these benchmarks be updated in our, in our community. Okay.

12:29So we're looking at two grants. One grant, this first grant is the vacant unit rehabilitation grant.

12:37We're playing with a few changes of the name on that as well. And essentially what we're looking to do is redevelop existing stock in our community, either that is uninhabitable residential or office commercial to be converted into affordable residential units.

13:00Should you sign into an agreement that keeps those units affordable for 25 years? This grant would provide you with $100,000 per unit as a capital grant upfront.

13:14It would also provide up to an additional $20,000 if that affordable unit is also accessible and we define accessible by features over and above the minimum building code standards for barrier free.

13:30So we are looking at multi unit buildings for this grant. Again, the units do have to be vacant. We are not looking to encourage renovation in our community, but we are looking to upgrade existing space and get those building permits approved as soon as possible.

13:54So as I said, residential, commercial office space, and we're looking at making new affordable units in that space. Okay. So that's the first grant.

14:05And this grant is the one that is has the $3.2 million of half funding that's attached to it, as well as those timelines. That's one of the reasons why we looked at a grant that is tied to renovations rather than building new, which typically has a bit of a longer timeline on it.

14:27We are also looking at rental units as part of this grant. This grant is not available for ownership. Okay. So some of those other ineligible projects we are looking at multi unit. We're not looking at housing that's built for sort of the like single family homes.

14:48We're not looking for housing that's built for ownership. We did at the time of preparing this presentation for you. We were looking at reducing, you know, the opportunity for post secondary student housing as typically you're looking at shared housing facilities.

15:06And we would like to see housing being developed that has one, like a separate washroom separate kitchen facilities, something that somebody can live in long term. However, if you do meet the price or the eligibility for the type of building or sorry, the type of unit.

15:24Certainly whatever it might be used for it is is something that we're willing to look at. So that could be student housing. It could be long term care, those types of things.

15:34So that's the first grant. The second grant is what we're using for new builds. So these are buildings ideally that are already sort of planned.

15:49We're looking at higher density. And what we'd like to do is see some of these larger developments convert some of their markets, either rental or ownership units over to affordable housing.

16:03So if you can commit to again 25 years at an affordable rate, the city would provide you $25,000 per unit. Now there are additional.

16:14There are additional fees that would be waived such as DC's CBC's.

16:23And so that sort of adds on to your $25,000, but the $25,000 is something that you get upfront. It's a construction grant.

16:31And it is equated to about a 10 years of municipal taxes that would be paid on the site. So you get that money upfront.

16:41And this is again for resident or sorry, rental, but also ownership as well.

16:49This grant is not funded through this grant is intended to be funded through the city's base budget. So right now we're trying to define how much money can we look to the city's budget to be able to support these units.

17:05And in that way, we'll be able to identify sort of where that threshold is for us to be able to see these units being developed in our community.

17:14Christine, can I step in with a question at Lisa?

17:17Oh, please do.

17:18Can you not use any acronyms?

17:21Oh, so I just just just for some of the lay members. So I got development charges and then I missed the second acronym.

17:31It's so sorry. Community benefit charges.

17:35Okay.

17:36Parkland dedication fees are also a fee that may be waived if you are looking at developing affordable housing, new affordable housing units and thank you so much for calling me out on that.

17:47We've been doing so many of these presentations and it's just part of our every day that sometimes we forget, right? So I really appreciate that.

17:56Okay. So this particular grant, as I noted, is intended to be funded under the tax supported budget.

18:09And the eligibility is very, very similar. Again, we're looking for these multi unit, you know, higher density, new developments that are coming on board.

18:21As long as you meet the same criteria is related to, you know, do you have a separate living space? Do you have a separate kitchen space, separate living space that somebody can be in long term?

18:33You know, the use of the space is really will be coming off of this ineligible project listed. That's based on some of the feedback that we've received from some of the other engagement that we've been doing.

18:45So who are not the only ones currently developing community improvement plans in Ontario and we have been in contact with many of our other municipal colleagues across the province.

19:01And some are out of the gate a little bit earlier than us. Some already had affordable housing.

19:08Community improvement plans in place. So we've certainly been talking with a number of those folks, sort of what's worked, what hasn't worked and any sort of their future plans, those types of things.

19:20And I mentioned some of this already, but I will certainly do it again. The next certain between this time, I would say within the next, the next few days.

19:32Before the end of the week, please do reach out if you do have any further comments that haven't come out today. So we can get any, any further considered revisions into into our report.

19:46But that report will be seen by council on November 13th and our opportunities to delegate. After this meeting, we will certainly send our public or public notice with a link to the agenda where you can.

20:01And instructions on how you can delegated that meeting. And then we at this date is also looks like it might be moving as well. Instead of December, we may be looking at an approval meeting in January.

20:16There is also an appeal period after that. So we will be starting this program as soon as possible. But the likelihood is it won't be until February.

20:28Okay, so that's it. I'm happy to stop sharing.

20:36I think I think I'm back and take any questions.

20:45Any questions for Christine. I have one.

20:54During this whole process. Have, have you spoken to.

21:01Different developers in town to see whether your, your.

21:08Whether this plan is workable.

21:11Like who's out there that would have buy in is it larger developers in town. Would this work for them?

21:20Would this work for a smaller builder?

21:25Have you spoken to when you said you spoke into other cities that are working in progress or they have this in place.

21:33Has any, have you talked to anybody that's gone through the process of getting money from the city.

21:41And has it worked like it's such a short, short timeframe we're into November.

21:47And the money has to be spent by the end of December 26, like it takes more than 2 years to get a building permit. Like, how does that work? How.

21:56I just don't know how this can work this quickly. If it's not going to council until February.

22:03Like, it takes quite a while to get.

22:08Drawings built for a development. All the engineers in place.

22:14To get a building permit, like, I just don't see how you can have enough time to spend this money.

22:20So, there's a few questions in there. Yeah, I think, I think, and I can unpack most of the Maria and thank you so much.

22:27We, so we are concluding our, it's the 1st 1 1st.

22:33We're, we're at the end of our engagement and we have had an opportunity to engage with, yes, many, many different development organizations. Certainly our realtors association, home builders association, developers association.

22:49Our downtown association, but also have conducted about, I would say about 7, 1, 1 interviews with with for profit developers and about 5, not for profit developers.

23:02We really do want to make sure that we develop a program that is going to get the uptake.

23:08And while there's no crystal ball to be able to see exactly who is going to come to the table. And certainly that is definitely on our minds.

23:18We have received some really positive feedback from some of some of our developers and some of our downtown property owners.

23:26$3.2 million, which is the money associated that to get out the door by the end of 2026 is not a lot of money.

23:34We're looking at likely about 30 projects and the promotion program to get this out the door starts the minute after we're out of our public, our public meeting in November.

23:48So we have a promotions plan that we're working on right now.

23:52And we are really trying to target specific properties. We're not trying to do a, like now is the time to do a broad stroke related to, you know, communicating about the development of the program.

24:03But certainly in economic development, our planning folks, our building folks have developed good relationships with property owners.

24:11Like for many, many years in our community. And so we're really going to be relying on those relationships and doing a lot of promotion.

24:21Now, as it relates to the timelines, if we can get, and I'm sure that Kushla would agree with me on this, if we could get any wiggle room related to pushing those timelines, certainly we would like to see that.

24:35Unfortunately, these are tied to the half. This is tied to the half money and is dictated through the federal government.

24:42That may change, but it certainly isn't isn't looking like it right now. So, well, it is outside of our control. We're going to try to do all of the things that within our control to get these building permits through as quickly as possible.

24:53Anybody else. Any questions?

25:07I have 1 question.

25:11Is the time limit for the, like the end of 2026. Is that just for the grants tied to the housing accelerator fund or is it also for the new builds that you were talking about?

25:25Oh, thank you so much.

25:27It is only tied to the half program, which is that 1st grant related to renovations.

25:33Thank you.

25:34I have a quick question also. I'm just looking at that date still as well.

25:47So, when it says money spent by the end of 2026.

25:52Are we talking that we have to have completed projects by the end of 2026 or.

26:01How is the, how or when is that money actually being dispersed to the people receiving it?

26:10Yeah.

26:12So, the instructions that we have related to the funding that's been provided to us is at the time of building permit approval.

26:20So, no, the projects do not have to be completed.

26:24The money does need to be paid out at the time of building permit.

26:29Okay. Thank you.

26:31Anyone else.

26:32I have a question Maria.

26:38Christine.

26:42For the 1st grant, the federal cost share.

26:48These have to be existing units.

26:52Do you, does the team have an idea of how many units we're talking about?

26:56Like, there must be an idea of how many.

26:59I think they were vacant and uninhabitable units is how they were characterized in the slides. So.

27:07Do you know how many and then maybe a follow up question.

27:12What's the CIP area is this city wide.

27:15Thank you, Darren.

27:17It is city wide.

27:22We do not currently have an inventory of vacant residential properties.

27:28So, if, if anybody is aware of such an inventory, please do let us know, but no, we don't have an inventory to be able to, to draw from.

27:41But what I can tell you is that this is a 1st come 1st serve program.

27:46We're not limiting the number of units per project.

27:50Not part of part of the renovation grant.

27:54So, if we do have 1 large project that comes in and we can get all 30 to 32 units created.

28:02Happy to do that.

28:04We're also looking at the conversion of the units.

28:08We're also looking at the conversion of space related to the dividing space into multiple units.

28:16So, if we have, say, an upper floor that's currently has 3 large units, if we're looking to make those smaller units, you can add to the stock.

28:25I just want to, I just wanted to, to clarify that that it doesn't have to be unit per unit, right?

28:32It doesn't have to be 1 vacant unit equals 1.

28:36You know, affordable residential unit.

28:39Okay. Thank you.

28:47Okay. Anyone else just ask again. Any other questions?

28:53I think I have 1 more.

28:56I think, as you mentioned, that this, specifically for vacant or uninhabitable.

29:04So, to say units to try and avoid the problem of renovations.

29:11Are there any other safeguards in place so that say a property owner couldn't.

29:19Vacate their building in order to receive this.

29:25They can't just a thick tenants prior to their application for the funding.

29:33Yeah, this is something that we have had a lot of discussion about as it stands right now. There isn't any mechanism for us to verify if there it is a vacant unit. We will be relying.

29:47It will be a matter of faith and also due to the timelines as well. We're trying to get these through as quickly as possible.

29:57And we are hoping to rely on staff expertise related to the history of and use of buildings, but we can't verify it.

30:05Thank you.

30:10So, if any of the 3 of the money is not spent, then it's lost.

30:16It's my understanding that that is the case. Yeah.

30:23But things do change over time and we certainly will try to make these the 3.2 million dollars go as far as we can.

30:33Anything else for Christine. So, I guess you won't be talking to this committee again, because it's going to be.

30:49Going to counsel, but we all of us have the opportunity to provide more feedback to you. Like you said, at any time, right?

30:58Yeah, absolutely. And I do encourage if you do want counsel to hear your comments.

31:04To certainly register to delegate.

31:08Okay.

31:10Well, if I may my apologies. Madam chair, but if I may just interject for 1 minute.

31:17Christine's absolutely right. We're going to clerk's office. We always want more folks to come out and delegate and speak to counsel.

31:22Typically from advisory committees. What we look for is to actually have the chair or another representative representative of the committee.

31:29Come and present actually alongside city staff to share the specific opinion of the committee. So folks are welcome to register and speak as individuals.

31:37But when it comes to actually sharing the perspective of an advisory committee, there is an alternative path that actually gives the chair or representative.

31:46A little bit more standing before counsel based on the nature of your committee. So, if that's something the committee is interested or you're interested in as the chair, then we can chat after this meeting about those opportunities.

31:57So, that's interesting. So, what do the members feel?

32:06How do you feel about that? Whether this committee could be represented kind of is that the committee could be represented.

32:18And that we provide feedback to counsel, or should we leave it that each of us.

32:24Go back and do our own thing if we wish.

32:27Any thoughts on that.

32:29If there was a desire for the committee to send a representative.

32:36Then what we'd have the representative speak to is the specific opinion of the committee. So, we'll be speaking to a specific position the committee took at this meeting. So, I think there's been lots of questions here, which is great.

32:48I don't think there was sort of a specific. Nope, the committee doesn't support this element of the plan that Christine presented, or you know what we want to see this at and I didn't hear that.

32:58So, if there is going to be a representative sent, then typically we would look to have a specific resolution of the committee to codify a certain position.

33:07Otherwise, if it's sort of more generic, we've had some questions and feedback, then we just have the committee pass a resolution that their feedback and questions be considered by staff.

33:17So, there's no right or wrong there, but if there is going to be a representative going to counsel, I think we want to make it very clear what is the committee's position or every supportive of what.

33:26Christine is outlined. Do we have concerns about it? Is there something that should be added or taken away? I think that's the type of advice council's looking for, but a more generic.

33:34Consider the questions when you go about implementing the plan to Christine is also perfectly reasonable.

33:40But that's certainly at the discretion of the of the of the committee. I think at this point, based on what I've heard, it's a it's a resolution.

33:55That the feedback provided by the planet advisory committee regarding the affordable housing community improvement plan be considered by staff. But of course, the committee can can add to that if there is more specific feedback.

34:05I think all the questions that were raised was more for clarity.

34:13And I didn't hear anything or anyone suggesting that they didn't agree with what was presented. So, correct me if I'm wrong. Anyone. So maybe tonight we passed the recommended resolution that was listed or noted on the agenda.

34:33And if any of you feel like feel any differently, then we can certainly talk about it after this meeting. When is the, when is this going to be discussed at council again? Christine.

34:50It's November 13.

34:52So there's not a lot of time really.

34:55Lisa.

34:56I'm just wondering what the committee thinks about adding a line that we are concerned about the aggressive nature of the timeline.

35:10Because that has been a question that a number of members raised.

35:17I'm just putting that out there one possible amendment.

35:23But I don't know how I don't have an idea of the specific language we would use to personally, I'm very supportive of trying to come up with some strategies to to increase the affordable housing supply.

35:42Yeah, and I'm concerned about the timeframe 2026.

35:52But if it's just to get a building permit issued.

36:04So, I do have a possible motion that includes that I just want to clarify with Christine to make sure that I've got this right that that timeline is not something set or controlled by staff. Is that correct? Christine?

36:18That's correct.

36:20Okay, so if it is the desire of the committee, we could have a resolution that the feedback provided by the plan advisory committee members regarding the affordable housing community improvement plan be considered by staff.

36:30Including a concern about the.

36:37Aggressive nature of the 2026 deadline or of the.

36:41Of the 2026 deadline in general, that would make sure that council understands that you're concerned about that deadline.

36:46But it also acknowledges that that, you know, isn't necessarily something within staffs control and I don't know that the committee is recommending we not do this for that reason, but it does.

36:55It does like council know that that was a concern raised by the committee.

36:58I guess, I guess.

37:00If we raise the issue of that, the timeline.

37:05With that provides staff with the ability or council with the ability to.

37:11Look at the processes within the building department and the permitting process to kind of come up with it. I know the city has been working to expedite planning approvals and building permits.

37:26But with this kind of initiative.

37:30Give a little bit more.

37:34Opportunity to work through a streamlining.

37:40And then we'll be able to do a quick and fast tracking for this kind of a project.

37:47And I guess my question is.

37:49Would that be helpful in achieving the affordable housing.

37:55Goals.

37:58And please other members of the committee.

38:03My concern would be that.

38:09So, if, and so other developers are sitting waiting.

38:16Because there's only so much time that staff has.

38:20And it's possibly suggested that they spend more time on dealing with these applications because there's a really tight timeframe of the end of 2026.

38:33That would be a concern.

38:36I don't know what the answer is.

38:39I just, it wouldn't be fair to other developers trying to finish up.

38:46There are other sites.

38:50I think perhaps Christine can, I don't want to put words in your mouth Christine. It sounds like staff rub the same opinion.

38:57So this would, this would add another voice that that is a tight timeline. Again, it doesn't seem like something that's.

39:02Within our, our control necessarily, but I think I did hear Christine.

39:06Effectively agree that that is a, is a tight timeline.

39:09So I don't think put it in here has has a huge impact, but Christine, maybe you can comment on that.

39:14It's yeah, absolutely. It certainly echoes what we've heard in our engagement.

39:20Previously by other associations.

39:24As a committee of counsel, if you'd like to make that statement.

39:29That's up to you in terms of helping or hindering really at this point.

39:35We have our marching orders to set forth and we are going to work as best we can to those down the road.

39:42I can't tell you whether the federal, you know, government or those that are administering the half funding.

39:50We'll extend those timelines. I, we really don't have any indication of whether that would be a hindrance or, or a support as we're developing this programs to get the money out by the end of 2026.

40:03Well, it doesn't hurt to add that to the motion just to express our concern with the timeframe.

40:16Doesn't hurt, right.

40:18May not make a difference, but Lisa, what do you think if, if.

40:27If we add that to the resolution.

40:30I just, yeah.

40:35I think we could because.

40:38More than one person.

40:40I have that question.

40:42Around this table.

40:46I do have a draft motion madam chair that I could display that a member could consider.

40:51Moving in second. Yeah, go ahead.

40:54So that is effectively the resolution that was included on the agenda with that note about a concern regarding the 2026 deadline. Of course, staff have also heard the comments and are going to be able to include that type of advice and future reporting to council.

41:16Is someone comfortable putting forth the motion.

41:22For what was just shown on the screen.

41:25Artem moved and is there a seconder.

41:36Lisa.

41:45Okay, so all in favor.

41:50Raise your hands.

41:521, 2, 3, 4, 5, and I think Mary is okay.

42:01It's carried week.

42:11Ellen with that.

42:13Absolutely we've got that.

42:15Okay madam chair.

42:17Okay, Christine, thanks so much for the presentation. Thank you very much.

42:23Next 2.2 of the community planning permit system.

42:30CPS pilot project and we have justine and Nicole from Dylan consulting.

42:38That's going to provide us the presentation.

42:44So justine is very, very, very, very.

42:49Hello, good evening. I'm going to attempt to share my screen now and I think Brenna's got some opening remarks and then.

42:58And Nicole will pick it up from there.

43:01Okay.

43:08You're muted.

43:10Brenna.

43:12Yes, sorry about that. I'm.

43:14I'm also used to what to teams and zoom versus more of X.

43:19So, good evening everybody. Thanks for attending tonight and hello to a number of staff members that I haven't met in person yet as well.

43:30I'm relatively new to the city of Guelph. I'm the project manager.

43:34A project manager in the policy planning division of planning and building services.

43:41And with Dylan consulting, we're looking at a developing.

43:47And implementing a community planet planning permit system in the city of Guelph in 2 specific areas in the stone road, Edinburgh area, as well as.

43:58The next phase, which will be downtown.

44:02I'm joined by members of the consulting team, justine and call who've been assisting us in the project and I will let justine take it away.

44:15Thanks Brenna. I'm just going to hop in here. Hi. Hi.

44:20Hi.

44:21Thanks for that intro.

44:23This is a build on what Brenna said. We're really just at the start of this project. So we're going to give a really.

44:32Brief introductory presentation and just get some of your comments and questions at this time. I just wanted to confirm how much time do we have on for our agenda item just so I can make sure.

44:44I manage our slides properly here.

44:49But we are normally done around 830. It's 720. We have, let me see the housing affordability. How long will you be just to.

45:04I will be as short as I need to be so I can be 2 minutes if necessary.

45:10Oh, and then.

45:12Okay, so we'll give you 10 advisory committee governance Dylan and Winnie. How long do you think.

45:22I think our presentation is in the 5 to 10 minute range and then we'll have some discussion after I think generally for presentations that 5 to 10 minute range is sort of what we, what we target, but you know, there's some flexibility there too.

45:34So, why don't we give you around 15 minutes.

45:38That sounds great. We'll keep it speedy.

45:42Okay, so there's our quick agenda. Like I said, we're going to give you some background and provide an update on where we're at in the project right now. So we'll just keep going. Justine.

45:54Thank you. So that's just a snapshot of our overall project team. So you've met just being Brenna and I.

46:04We're also working with Kushla at the city and then at Dylan, we have a broader team of planning experts that we're pulling into this project.

46:15That includes housing advisors, land regulation, specialist, transportation, planning and design. And then we're also partnered with another consulting firm called FGL. So we're working with David and see her on that.

46:32I want to go to the next slide. So the purpose of the project is to develop and implement the community planning permit system. Lots of more fun acronyms on this line for this group.

46:44Instead of community planning permit system, you'll often hear us call it the CPPS.

46:51And as Brenna mentioned, we're looking at 2 areas for this project. That includes the downtown and the stone road and ennobrol road area.

47:00And these 2 areas are identified as strategic growth areas and the official plan. So for short, we call those SGA's.

47:10And really the vision for this project is to support these areas to continue to grow. So focusing on providing more housing supply opportunities for affordable housing.

47:25But really focusing on creating complete communities within those areas. So that means making sure people have access to the daily amenities that they need to support their life.

47:38So access to transit community amenities shopping.

47:43And in particular, the CPPS is looking for is looking to incentivize 35 affordable housing units by the end of 2026.

47:55And I'll just go to this. So this is a detailed map of the 2 areas.

48:05It's, it is kind of hard to see. So we can make sure you have a copy of this presentation and we'll send you a link to our website that has these maps on them too.

48:15So the downtown, it follows the.

48:19The downtown secondary plan area. So if you're familiar with that plan.

48:24That's what's included in the downtown area. And then the stone road, Edinburgh road area encapsulates most of where the stone road mall is.

48:34And then a little bit on the northern side where there's some residential.

48:39The commercial area on the south side.

48:43But yeah, we'll show you some more detailed maps as we go along.

48:51Okay. So I think I'm going over to just scheme for these slides to talk a little bit about what the CPPS is.

48:59Thanks, Nicole. So wanted to back up a little and provide context around a community planning permit system as this is the 1st time.

49:10The city of Guelph is looking to use this tool.

49:15It is informed by provincial policy. So it is a tool available to municipalities provided for under the planning act.

49:24And there are actually separate regulations specifically for community planning permit system.

49:31So, um, Oreg 173 dash 16 happens to be the number she do want to hold on to that.

49:37And it really outlines what an official plan amendment needs to include what the community planning permit by law needs to include.

49:46And where there's opportunities that you can include certain things in the by law itself. So it's kind of the rule book that sets up the, um, the regulations for when I mean as a quality uses a community plan permit system.

50:00In addition, a community planning permit system needs to implement.

50:04I mean, as a Pellies official plan. So in this case, the city of Guelph official plan does have some development permit system policies.

50:12We use that. So, in about, I think it was 2017 or so there was some change in regulations by the province.

50:21That changed the term from development permit system to community planning permit system in Ontario. They mean 1 in the same in essence, it was more of a rebranding at that time.

50:32And so there are policies in the city of Guelph official plan.

50:37Looking to establish development permit systems and use this tool across the city.

50:44And so we are looking at at both implementing and updating those policies to reflect all of the requirements under the provincial regulations.

50:55In addition, the city of Guelph zoning by law does set forward.

51:00Development requirements and permitted uses development standards for development across the city.

51:08This tool, given that the city of Guelph has just gone through a comprehensive zoning by law update would in many cases pick up those policies, those provisions that are currently in the city of Guelph zoning by law.

51:22But I'll spend a little bit of time explaining what some of the differences are that this tool provides. And it actually would repeal and replace the zoning by law for those subject geographies that Nicole was talking about.

51:37The other two are the same subject geographies that Nicole highlighted.

51:42So, in general, the tool is available to municipalities across Ontario. It's been available since, I believe it was 2008.

51:51And it combines municipalities zoning by law amendment process site plan application or control process and minor variance into a single process.

52:03So what that means is, I shall go one more slide under the current process where I developed.

52:11I heard the committees talk about kind of the challenges of getting to building permit and how much time is involved in that process.

52:19That's one of the things that the city is looking at to see are there ways that we can streamline the development approvals process.

52:27One of the opportunities that this tool provides is the tool itself, based on its definition of development, has the ability to outline what development standards are provided for a subject property, where any variations may be accepted.

52:46And then it also has the ability to manage site plan control matters all in one single application.

52:53So what you can see on the bottom of the screen is that a community planning permit system under the regulations, municipality needs to review an application within 45 days.

53:07And so that is taking on the top of the screen when an application might need a zoning by law amendment because the current zoning for the subject property does not meet the official plan or the long term intent, perhaps.

53:22Any site plan control matters that are typically dealt with within 60 days.

53:28And then sometimes there's a need to go back for minor variances or perhaps only minor variance was needed in the first place. And so this really has this single process has the opportunity to manage all of those in one application.

53:48In terms of the structure so similar to a zoning by law, it outlines definitions, administration and interpretation, general provisions, and then specific provisions. It would have a schedule that would have specific areas identified on that schedule.

54:06Unlike a zoning by law, we tend to instead of talking about zones, we tend to use a different term just to try to be clear that it's not exactly the same. So we might use precincts or districts.

54:19Unlike zoning, the bylaw itself can lay out what the development standards are and where variations could be accepted or conditions might be required.

54:31Unlike a zoning by law, it has the ability, municipalities have asked for a long time to get the opportunity for conditional zoning. So that would be to say you can do this if you provide this.

54:42And that those provisions have not, those OREGs have not been provided to municipalities. And so this tool does provide an opportunity to look at conditional zoning.

54:52So there's an opportunity to build in a flexibility within the tool itself and define what matters most to the community and to control the things that matter most, but perhaps allow for, you know, site configuration challenges to be managed through a single process as well.

55:12In terms of some other differences.

55:16I did mention that conditional zoning element. The bylaw itself establishes classes of development and what would be delegated in terms of approval authority.

55:28So what that could mean is many of the municipalities that have used the tool might look at three or four different classes of development where there's a single class that provides any applications that meet all the development standards would perhaps come through a class one.

55:45So there might be delegated to staff for approval. There might be a threshold established in the bylaw for variations up to a certain threshold that can also be reviewed by staff or committee.

55:58And then there might be a requirement for above a certain threshold that still needs to go to council. So there's an opportunity in the tool itself to really look at, you know, based on applications that meet the development requirements.

56:13So how can we streamline development approvals and what really needs to come to council versus what can be delegated to staff or committee.

56:21Another point that I mentioned was around flexibility. There's, there's actually an opportunity to identify discretionary uses in the bylaw so uses that are permitted in certain instances, or what certain criteria.

56:36And for those who might be familiar with the minor variance process, there's four tests that are used for minor variance under community planning permit system.

56:48The municipality can identify what are the things that matter to us and what criteria would we want to use to consider variations. So you don't have to rely on the four tests of a minor variance.

57:00So, what is the best way to establish through the bylaw? What matters to the community and how you want to how you want to capture that in terms of allowing variations from a standard.

57:12Lastly, a community benefits charge and that was that one of the acronyms used earlier this evening does not apply.

57:20But there is an opportunity to establish facilities services and matters. I know that's a bit of a mouthful that's directly from the regs.

57:29And I think the city of Guelph is looking to use this tool is really to look at some of the conversation earlier around affordable housing needs of the community and how additional opportunities through the development approvals process can provide for and support affordable housing.

57:50And I guess I kind of said what was on this slide, but it is tied to the housing accelerator fund.

57:57This is one of the initiatives coming out of there and the intent really is to look at an approval framework that is customized to the city of Guelph's needs.

58:06Looks at what is critically important as it relates to achieving affordable housing and prioritizing those needs and securing essential other essential community needs such as, you know, park lands and and community facilities.

58:23As Nicole had mentioned, and there are a number of other municipalities that have used the tool across the province. It is still very much underutilized at this moment in time I would say but since being available.

58:38Several municipalities have used the tool primarily for kind of control and shoreline development, such as, you know, like a base had originally just use it for their shoreline in his bill has one in their shoreline.

58:53Carlton Place and again and not way are municipality wide. And then most the most recent in effect by law is the town of Huntsville that has gone through the exercise and received ministerial approval last year for their townwide bylaw.

59:14And then the city of Burlington is also using this tool for their community planning. That's right major transit station area. So, there are 3 areas right around their go stations in the city of Burlington.

59:29And that has approval and principle at the moment.

59:33So, I'll pass it back to Nicole. We are at about 10 or I think 12 minutes. So, maybe we can just run through a little bit of this context and then see what questions a group has. And I can move quite fast on the slides. If that would be valuable.

59:47That sounds good. Thanks, Justine.

59:51So, we're working on our draft background review and as part of that, we're going to take feedback that we're hearing tonight along with broader public engagement.

1:00:02And stakeholder engagement that will do this fall and fold that into our background report and that will help inform the community planning.

1:00:10Permit by law for each of those areas. So, as part of that exercise, we looked at some existing conditions for each area and we'll just go over those pretty quickly. Like justine said.

1:00:22So, we're looking at the zoning and the official plan. This slide shows the official plan designation. So, just looking to understand what the long term vision for the downtown includes.

1:00:37So, it's a mix of uses and then the zoning reinforces the official plan with that. That makes of uses as well.

1:00:45And we'll just go to the next slide.

1:00:48We know that the downtown is well loved by the community and we're looking at a lot of the key features and key destinations in the downtown. So, the river and center city hall that type of thing.

1:01:02And the downtown is really transit connected as well. So, making sure we're reinforcing those transit connections in the downtown.

1:01:15There's also some looking at infrastructure to make sure that all the infrastructure and utilities are in place to support the growth in the downtown. So, we'll also be connecting this to the downtown infrastructure renewal program.

1:01:34And we'll just go to the next slide.

1:01:37There are some development considerations in the downtown to consider in the CPS and this includes the floodplain around the speed and air mosas river. So you can see those.

1:01:51Red and yellow areas outlined on the map.

1:01:55We'll just go to the next one.

1:02:00We'll also be looking at current and.

1:02:05Recent development applications in the downtown to understand what the development context is like what types of permits are being issued and where official plan amendments and zoning by law amendments have taken place to see where some of the.

1:02:22The policy constraints might be.

1:02:26And we're looking at.

1:02:29A summary of those development applications as well to see what types of development has been applied in the downtown.

1:02:37Since we've got a couple acronyms on this one. So approved official plan amendment slash zoning by law amendments is that point at 8% and then accessory dwelling units is noted at 18%.

1:02:53Thanks justine. So, when we're looking at the stone road and Edinburgh road area, really the policies in the official plan.

1:03:04Look to, I guess, advance this area in the future from into, I guess, changing this community from a predominantly car oriented retail space to a more mixed use community.

1:03:20Where people could live and work and shop in the same area. So, that's this slide shows the official plan designations for this area. So a variety of land.

1:03:33I use this and then the zoning that reinforces that.

1:03:38I'll just go to the next.

1:03:42The major destination in the area currently is the stone road mall and then there's a significant park in that area too.

1:03:50We'll keep going justine.

1:03:53This area is also very well connected to transit. So you can see the bus routes there in pink.

1:04:00So looking to reinforce the transit connections and build around those transit connections.

1:04:09Again, looking at the infrastructure as part of this project to make sure it can support the growth anticipated.

1:04:18And there aren't any significant natural heritage features within the site, but there are some adjacent to the site. So the CPS will need to consider protecting those natural heritage features.

1:04:32And we looked at the development applications in this area as well. So looking where there has been official plan amendments, zoning by law amendments.

1:04:49And residential building permits issued in the area. So you can see.

1:04:54Not too many, but there have been a few.

1:04:57And then the breakdown on this slide.

1:05:00All right, so I think we'll pause there for any questions or comments on the CPS.

1:05:19Any questions anyone.

1:05:29I've got one.

1:05:31I think I'm right right now.

1:05:35So, though you sort of explained this will possibly change the ability of staff to use the number of the approval set or so. So right now, so like a minor, it's a separate is.

1:05:53It is through the through committee.

1:05:59Excuse me, can everybody understand Justin.

1:06:05Because it's it, I can't understand a word you said.

1:06:09I can read. I think I'm gathering enough that I can repeat it Justin so I think so far you said you were wondering about staff approvals minor variants and severance are coming through the through the committee of adjustments.

1:06:22And I think you were getting to a question and I'll repeat it because we're getting some feedback from you Justin.

1:06:28Oh, oh dear.

1:06:31Yeah, so I'm sorry.

1:06:34We'll, we'll, there's still a source a committee can adjust and in in the frame, right.

1:06:43The CCD ask that that's that thing that I'm going to be a long, long, long while.

1:06:49My name to do mine if I repeat that.

1:06:52Please do. I didn't I didn't do any of it.

1:06:55Thanks Justin for the question. So I think the question was right now, committee of adjustments looks at minor variants and severance applications.

1:07:03What, if any, would be the goal of committee of adjustments, recognizing that this process provides opportunity for further delegation to staff.

1:07:13Thank you Justin for the question.

1:07:16While we're still in the early stages of the process.

1:07:21There is an opportunity to look at delegation in a comprehensive way in terms of applications in this area. And what I can say is that all the, and number of the municipalities that have gone forward with this tool.

1:07:36To achieve 45 days you really do want to max my staff approval as much as possible.

1:07:42So there are a couple municipalities that still used a committee instead of council.

1:07:49But Huntsville, for example, since they went out with this townwide, they no longer needed a committee of adjustment based on the way they set up the framework.

1:08:01So that's not a requirement.

1:08:04The bylaw itself can establish what that framework is. So if there are thoughts on, you know, feedback on what should be delegated or how a committee should be involved in the future would love to hear that.

1:08:17But there is an opportunity through this tool, given the 45 days to really look at what can be delegated to staff and where something might need to continue to go to a committee or council.

1:08:30To limit that answer your question.

1:08:39Yes, yes, thank you. Okay. Anybody else any other questions.

1:08:45And chair. Yes, of course I have questions.

1:08:54I have 3 questions.

1:08:59So the 1st 1, I'm looking at slide 24 of your presentation.

1:09:04And it's the background review of the zoning for the stone road at a bro.

1:09:09And the 1 thing that jumped out on me that slide was.

1:09:14The open space.

1:09:21And the parks and I'm just wondering on that the light yellow around Scott still drive.

1:09:28Says low density residential.

1:09:31But I believe there's an open space connection through the backs of those schools that are there.

1:09:37And so I'm just wondering this might be more of a question for staff.

1:09:42I believe prior reparks school and.

1:09:47St. Renee know it's.

1:09:51The French Catholic school.

1:09:56St. Renee is in that area. I'm just wondering, and I know that you can get on your bike.

1:10:03Through that hydro corridor and the city has been planting quite a few trees under that hydro corridor. So I'm just wondering about that, that low density residential desig nation.

1:10:18Um, Brandon, do you want me to start on that 1 perhaps? I can provide some thoughts or.

1:10:23Uh, sure, I don't.

1:10:26Even I can start.

1:10:29So this you can see the schools there and the lighter yellow.

1:10:34Um, with a kind of a connection off of college there as well at the back.

1:10:40So, if there's a trail there, it could be designated and zoned as residential or neighborhood institutional per se that doesn't.

1:10:50Restrict the use of the trail or mean that it's going to be something in the future.

1:10:57Like residential and not a trail.

1:11:00I don't know if it's a, if it's a 1 year talking about as a city owned.

1:11:07Um, trail in itself, or whether it's more than a normal connection. Yeah, I'm not sure of the actual ownership, but I just it jumped out to me that there's only 1 open space and park.

1:11:20And this is an awfully big land mass.

1:11:23Um, and I guess the, the.

1:11:26My concern is, is just that, you know, we are as a city low in the parkland designation.

1:11:35Um, overall.

1:11:39I think I threw you chair. I think I can see through this process from what I'm, what I'm learning anyways.

1:11:46Um, it's similar to a kind of a condition to provide.

1:11:52Parkland through developments. That is something we can ask the developers if they, if they want to provide it for, if we're allowing them to build some some residential units, particularly affordable housing.

1:12:06The compromises, well, you can, you can have more units than maybe what is there right now or being being.

1:12:14In a zoning term, what's what it's zoned for designated for.

1:12:19The ask is that the developer provide, you know, some parkland or dedication to expand parkland.

1:12:28For instance, in another occasion, I don't know if I'm saying that right, justine. You would have more experience, but.

1:12:36Yeah, so I think part of this exercise would be to identify those kind of trail connections and because this does go right through site plan control, like there is an ability similar to the current site plan control process to take.

1:12:53To require an agreement registered on title to, you know, address easements through this process where 1 issue though is that currently site plan control is not available for anything under 10 units.

1:13:08So this process could accommodate a broader range of development applications.

1:13:14I think the specific trailer you're referring to, I believe is, I can barely see it. So I'm not sure you'll be able to see on your side, but is there's some trails here through this area.

1:13:25And that site is zoned neighborhood institutional currently under a low density residential designation.

1:13:34And what we would want to do is identify the importance of that trail continuation and to look for if so, we're just starting off this process. So would love any thoughts and perspectives of how that site as a school site, whether it should permit a broader range of uses or should just be limited to the school.

1:13:59But that is something that we're contemplating and if there was development throughout the area to Brenna's point, this has provides the municipality better ability to make asks as it relates to trails, parkland, affordable housing that currently is not available under zoning, nor section 37.

1:14:19Bonus saying that used to be available to the municipality.

1:14:27Lisa, you had some other questions.

1:14:29Yeah, and I guess that that goes to, since there isn't a community benefit charge. How did those items get funded.

1:14:48Do you want me to get ready?

1:14:50Sure.

1:14:51So, what you need to look at when you're doing your community planning permit bylaw is establishing facility services and matters in exchange for height and density, both within and outside of the development standards required.

1:15:07So, it would be our expectation that we would be carrying forward any community benefit charge kind of a need for these areas.

1:15:17Right now the community benefit charges is capped in terms of what it's what the municipality can can capture. And so the, what we're looking at here is, is there an opportunity in exchange for height and density to maybe actually secure more, whether it is, you know, land for

1:15:36the city, for example, or more affordable housing requirements.

1:15:40So, it helps a municipality address some of the, the needs that are outside of some of the current caps available through the community benefits charge and Parkland dedication section 42 of the planning act as well.

1:15:56Okay.

1:15:57And I guess my final question is, of course, about tree protection and the urban canopy targets and typically your, your site plan application and would include your, your tree protection plan or your.

1:16:17Tree removals compensation. So, with that part of this, the process that be included in the.

1:16:26The single overarching application that, that.

1:16:31That it complies with that that particular.

1:16:37Goal.

1:16:39Yeah, so a community planning permit application would still need to complete any support studies that are required under a complete to be deemed a complete application.

1:16:51And that would be done through a pre consultation meeting. So, the municipality has a long list of support studies that would be a required tree protection plan. I believe is 1 of those on that list and it would be required as at the onset of an application.

1:17:07What there is actually an opportunity through this tool based on a broader definition of development to actually encapsulate the tree.

1:17:18Both site alteration and tree removal permits through the same process.

1:17:23I don't think we've had a conversation with staff to say whether that is or is not a desire at this moment in time. Brenna. I don't know if you guys have had any internal conversations, but again, would love the committee thoughts and perspectives.

1:17:35There is an opportunity to pick that up.

1:17:38And perhaps even address it even further in this area through this pilot exercise. But it hasn't.

1:17:47We haven't.

1:17:48Yeah, it hasn't come up yet for only certain projects. So.

1:17:51We haven't had that level of detail.

1:17:56Of discussion with staff at this point in time we're at beyond this presentation tonight we're looking at us working to establish either districts or precincts.

1:18:07And the types of permanent uses that would be allowed and the variations that could be accepted and then also the discussions on on the on the delegation to so to your.

1:18:18Your previous question or sorry.

1:18:21Yeah, the gentleman's previous question on on who's going to be doing what under this process or who's approving what.

1:18:27So, we will we will get there. There will be other opportunities to have discussions with your with yourselves and and the public of course, once we're further along in the process.

1:18:40Thank you.

1:18:41Through you the chair just because we are so early on, like, I appreciate that we're getting questions, but if you have thoughts about how this should be set up like this is the opportunity. Please do share your thoughts.

1:18:53Have any of the owners been approached within these areas like you've got stone road mall you've got as us all the way along stone road.

1:19:04And then there's a lot of commercial properties there.

1:19:08Is there any communication with what potentially they may be interested in the future.

1:19:14Any feedback from them the affected people within these areas.

1:19:20We are just starting that so you will see shortly if not in the presentation further we do have our first open house.

1:19:30At Priory Park public school on October 30.

1:19:34I'm looking to reach out to some of those.

1:19:38Larger landowners directly.

1:19:41Where the Walmart in the Canadian tire are for instance that's actually owned by the University of Guelph.

1:19:48Who may have other plans for those lands for instance.

1:19:52As well as the owners of stone road mall properties in behind stone or all over the north.

1:19:57There's sift and properties.

1:20:01That are sort of managers of the of the of the townhouse and apartment building complexes. They are so reaching out to them as well to see if they have.

1:20:10Any interest in in either redeveloping or adding units to their sites under this program. So.

1:20:17Okay, any other questions any other comments.

1:20:23So we've been asked.

1:20:27There's a recommendation in the agenda.

1:20:36To put forth a resolution that would read that the planning advisory committee received the community planning permit system pilot project presentation.

1:20:46And that the feedback provided by the planning advisory committee members be considered by staff.

1:20:54Is there any idea of changing that proposed resolution? Is there any feedback before I ask for motion and the seconder?

1:21:01No.

1:21:03Okay, so why don't someone like to put a motion forward to pass that resolution.

1:21:14Okay, so why don't someone like to put a motion forward to pass that resolution.

1:21:21Madam chair.

1:21:23If I may just interject for a minute, I just I want to make sure because the 1 motion does talk about feedback provided by the committee to be considered by staff. There was lots of questions.

1:21:33But I'm not sure we had specific feedback.

1:21:36Which we're asking them to consider. I just want to make sure that we're comfortable with that language that there's nothing specific that we that we want to add in there.

1:21:43Okay.

1:21:45What?

1:21:49You want to say something?

1:21:52Sorry.

1:21:53No, I guess not.

1:21:55Just heard someone someone want to comment on that.

1:22:01It's also, it's also perfectly reasonable for the committee just to receive a presentation if you don't have any feedback or advice at this time you could just receive it.

1:22:08I think that sends a message to staff that.

1:22:10You're comfortable with the overall direction and you don't have anything specific to add that doesn't.

1:22:15That's not a, you know, a negative thing, but I do want to make sure if we have a resolution that says it's time staff to incorporate the feedback that we want to make sure we know what what feedback is.

1:22:25Okay. Yeah. And I think I just heard more sort of.

1:22:28More sort of Q and a for clarity, which is also perfectly fine and reasonable.

1:22:33In which case, maybe just to receive recommendation is the is the appropriate one at this time.

1:22:37Okay, so.

1:22:44Okay, well, then let me put. Okay, so then are we comfortable putting forth a motion to just say that we're receiving this presentation.

1:22:54Someone want to move forward.

1:22:57Receiving this presentation.

1:23:00And we have a seconder.

1:23:08The other discussions.

1:23:18Okay, all in favor.

1:23:21Raise your hand.

1:23:23Okay, carried.

1:23:29So the second part, we won't include in the resolution, the second part about the feedback. Okay.

1:23:36Yep, that's perfect. Thank you very much.

1:23:38Thank you very much.

1:23:40All right.

1:23:43Justine Nicole, Brenna, thank you very much for the presentation and I'm sure we'll be hearing more about this right.

1:23:51There'll be more in the future.

1:23:542.3.

1:23:56Cushlaw over to you on the draft housing affordability strategy and we're getting a verbal update.

1:24:04Yeah, and I'll be I'll be really quick on this one. I just wanted to let the committee know because I know it was a full agenda this this this time around. So.

1:24:14I wanted to let you all know that our draft housing affordability strategy was released on October 8th.

1:24:21And it went to council planning and so I can provide a link to the the information there the staff report as well as the attachments included with that through the minutes of this as well as I wanted to share that we did have some upcoming

1:24:38engagement as well starting tomorrow and through until next week.

1:24:45So, all of that information is on our housing affordability strategy have your say page, which is online so there are several there are about 5 in person events and 1 virtual engagement as well.

1:25:00I also want to leave often ask the committee if they would like me to schedule another meeting relatively soon.

1:25:09Because we are going back to council with a final recommended strategy on December 10th, which means our work back schedule is sort of like an early November kind of date in terms of receiving any feedback that could be incorporated into the final strategy.

1:25:25So I'm going to schedule another time for me to come back to walk you through some of the draft actions in the draft strategy and receive any feedback on that.

1:25:38So, that is the question I will I will leave with you chair.

1:25:43Well, why don't we decide right now because I know it's tough with everyone schedules to to fit in another room.

1:25:52So, the members are and sorry, you're looking at early November.

1:25:58Any time between now and that first week of November would be ideal.

1:26:04Okay, so latest being the 1st week in November.

1:26:08Correct.

1:26:09Okay.

1:26:11Is anyone so is anyone not in favor of having another meeting now and early November.

1:26:21And do we need quorum or is this kind of like a.

1:26:26We need we need at least 5 people to attend to so it's really an official meeting. It's not like a information meeting.

1:26:36I'm actually I may I may ask Dylan if he is there such thing as a information meeting through a committee.

1:26:46I effectively know so if we want the committee to meet and provide formal feedback, then we need we need form we need votes we need resolutions and that kind of thing there is.

1:26:55There's always an opportunity to bring together less than quorum groups informally so you could meet with 3 members of the committee.

1:27:01You know, over a couple of sessions to collect feedback, but that would be informal and it wouldn't constitute specific advice or recommendations from the committee as a whole.

1:27:11Okay.

1:27:13Okay, so is anyone I hate putting anyone on the spot. Honestly. So maybe why don't we do this.

1:27:21If you send down an invite.

1:27:24Meeting for potential meeting. Okay. And if everybody here can respond very quickly to Kusla on whether you could attend that meeting or not.

1:27:37Then we'll know very quickly whether we will have.

1:27:41Or get to hold meeting if we get corn by the timeframe that you've set out, you know, give everyone a couple of days and and then we'll go with it. If you get corn fine. If not, then.

1:27:53We don't have the meeting.

1:27:55How does that sound for everybody? Is that okay? Okay there. So why don't we do it that way.

1:28:02Okay, great. Sounds good. Thanks very much.

1:28:05So, do you have anything more for us tonight or.

1:28:10No, I can I'll save it. I'll save it for hopefully when we're able to to to meet again.

1:28:17Yeah. Okay, so that means that there is no resolution with.

1:28:23For Dylan.

1:28:25That's correct. Okay, just making sure. Okay. Thanks.

1:28:30Thanks. Kusla. Moving on to 2.4 advisory committees governance framework updates and Dylan and Winnie over to you.

1:28:41Perfect. Thank you very much. I'm going to keep our presentation today relatively short.

1:28:47So this will be the 3rd time that we've gone to the planning advisory committee as part of our redesigning advisory committees of council project. And this will also be the last time.

1:28:56So it's a 2 year project and we're coming into sort of the final the final phase now.

1:29:01And this is an exciting point in the project for us to be in and it's exciting to talk to committees about it because this is 1 of the only opportunities as committee members where.

1:29:09We're not here really to talk to you about planning matters. We're here to talk to you about.

1:29:14Your committee and the role of your committee and the effectiveness of all our committees.

1:29:19Which obviously hinges on your involvement, the involvement of hundreds of volunteers across the city joining our committees because they care about our community and care about making it a better place.

1:29:28And that's what this review is about. It's the 1st time in 30 years that there's been a holistic review of all of golf's advisory committees.

1:29:35We've tinkered and made changes here or there over the years, but we've never looked at all of them to consider how might, how might we redesign the whole structure in a way that provides city council with the best possible advice because at the end of the day for an advisory committee.

1:29:50That is our goal to use these as a form of community engagement to provide council with the best policy advice possible so that we're ultimately getting to better policy outcomes. That is our that is our goal.

1:30:02But I'm going to present to you today very briefly as an overview of the project.

1:30:06And then it's actually our proposal. So we've got 14 current advisory committees.

1:30:10Our recommendation is to shift down to 7 and I want to talk about what that would mean for this committee and what it would mean for our.

1:30:16All of our committees a little bit more broadly. So just give me 1 second to share my screen.

1:30:21Perfect. Okay, I will jump right into it.

1:30:32Like I said, this is phase 2 of the redesigning advisory committees of council project the 3rd time that we're speaking to the planning advisory committee about this. You're the 1st of our last tranche of committee.

1:30:42So we're going to meet with all 14 over the course of the fall.

1:30:45And you guys have the, the luck of being, being the 1st ones on the list.

1:30:49This project started in early 2023. That was phase 1. There was a significant amount of engagement with committees as part of phase 1. Ultimately that led to council's approval of a governance framework for advisory committees.

1:31:01That governance framework is important because for the 1st time, it's a strategic level city document that talks about why we have advisory committees, what they do, what topics they should meet and provide advice on.

1:31:12And how we measure their effectiveness. So we don't end up in a position in the future where, you know, we go many decades without considering is this system working for the community.

1:31:22Because that governance framework was approved phase 2 is effectively the review I just described, but it's also ensuring that all of our committees are able to operate consistently with the framework that was approved by council.

1:31:34There's been a lot of engagement as part of phase 2. We've met with all members or met with each committee individually. We've held a workshop for chairs and vice chairs on 2 separate occasions.

1:31:46And we meet with we met with members of city council and small, less than quorum sessions to collect their feedback because of course 1 of the key things about advisory committees is we need to make sure we're giving advice to council on topics where they want to receive that advice.

1:31:59At this point, we're coming back to committees with the final proposal. We've already reviewed these proposals with staff and we'll be bringing a final recommendation to city council in March of next year.

1:32:09In front of you, you've got the list of 7 committees that we're recommending. So, like I said, the current number is 14. We're recommending a reduction to 7 committees.

1:32:20But there's a few caveats I want to give there when we talk about reduction. We have several committees right now that meet only a couple of times a year could be once twice 3, 4 times a year.

1:32:30The governance framework that council approved indicates that committees should have a mandate broad enough that they should be able to meet roughly monthly.

1:32:37So it doesn't mean literally 12 meetings a year. It could be 10 meetings or 9 or 11. There's some flexibility, of course.

1:32:42But the idea is the mandate should be enough to be able to meet roughly monthly.

1:32:46And we heard loud and clear through engagement with members of committees who are meeting less frequently.

1:32:52That less frequent meetings is a challenge because you never really feel like you got into the groove. It's difficult for chairs.

1:32:58We only get a chance to chair maybe 1 or 2 meetings and then they're moved into a different role.

1:33:03So, while we have a reduction in the number of committees, we expect the overall number of meetings and the amount of advice that our advisory committees are providing to staff and city council to be roughly the same.

1:33:13It might be a little bit less overall, but not nearly a 50% cut as it may look like when you just look at this list.

1:33:21I'm happy to answer questions about any of them, but obviously today we're here to talk about planning advisory committee specifically and our recommendation is that there's a creation of a new planning environment and water advisory committee.

1:33:33So that would be a merger of the existing planning advisory committee, the water conservation and efficiency advisory committee, the natural heritage advisory committee and elements of the waste resource innovation center public liaison committee as well.

1:33:47So, what we would anticipate is taking the current mandate of the planning advisory committee.

1:33:52Perhaps with some tweaks based on your feedback tonight and embedding that into the mandate of a broader committee. So similar planning items that come to this committee.

1:33:59Those are still going to go to an advisory committee for feedback. It's just that they're not going to be the only thing going to that advisory committee.

1:34:06We will have a variety of other items finally through the other new component there is the word environment.

1:34:12That's not something that is featured in the title or specific mandate of one of our committees right now, but it is a pillar of the city's strategic plan.

1:34:20And we know when it comes to giving council advice council has approved a strategic plan for the direction of the city and we want to make sure that residents have an opportunity to help council with the implementation of that plan.

1:34:30So that's why that environment component is included in there in that pose new committee as well.

1:34:37As far as the rationale and we're happy to provide more detail based on your questions, but like I said, there's currently no advisory committee to support the environmental pillar of the strategic plan. It's very important to council that that be included.

1:34:54We think that we can bring together a diverse group of people who can provide.

1:34:59Expertise and experience across these topics environment water and planning and that there's enough overlap between those topics.

1:35:07That there isn't the need for the individual committees or the individual expertise and beyond that when we talked to committees earlier this year all four of these committees express an interest in merging or expanding their mandates.

1:35:19So in this case all four of these committees gave us feedback along the lines of what we're doing isn't bad, but we feel like we could contribute more if we were able to provide advice in this type of area or regarding this type of plan by broadening the mandate.

1:35:33We will give this new committee the ability to provide advice on a much greater breadth of issues than just the planning advisory committee or just natural heritage or just water and efficiency without losing those specific mandates.

1:35:48I said it would be quick.

1:35:51That brings me to the end of our formal presentation.

1:35:54Of course, I'm happy to answer any questions that the committee has what we are asking from the committee tonight and what I hope you'll be willing to move, but it's certainly at your discretion is that the planning advisory committee recommends to city council the creation of a planning environment and water advisory committee.

1:36:09It would make me very happy to be able to go to council in March of next year to say here are these changes and the current committee members and the current committees are supportive of those changes.

1:36:19Of course, that's my recommendation. Now your resolution you'll be able to pass the resolution as you see fit, but that's what we're hoping for. And both money and I are happy to answer any questions you might have.

1:36:30Okay.

1:36:31Questions.

1:36:32Lisa.

1:36:40Hi.

1:36:41At first glance, I'm like, I'm supportive of this because as you've probably observed, I always bring up trees.

1:36:50On any issue that we're discussing.

1:36:55I feel it's sort of critical as I wear the landscape architect hat at this committee table and I guess my one concern is.

1:37:07The composition of the committee would have to change in that you would have to have.

1:37:15Environmental planners in in a number of different areas if, if you were going to cover.

1:37:24And I guess the size of the committee might have to change because and just members of the public at large, maybe without specific professional qualifications might change.

1:37:43And I'm just wondering, do you have an idea of the size of the committee because I believe like the rivers committee had quite a number of.

1:37:56Very specific expertise.

1:38:02And so I'm just put that that out there and, and you know, just members of the public at large or the development community or other roles.

1:38:11How I guess I just wanted some further thoughts.

1:38:16Sure. Yeah, absolutely. So, as far as the actual number of members, the governance framework that council approved last year.

1:38:24Indicates that committees should have 7, 9 or 11 members. So we're avoiding even numbers just to avoid tie votes, which can be a little bit problematic in this type of setting.

1:38:33So up to 11 members.

1:38:35And you're right, the specific composition, i.e. what skill sets we want, what, what fields and that kind of thing we want represented will change.

1:38:44We think there's enough overlap that we could leave room, especially with 9 or 11 members for both broad community members, but also folks with specific skill sets that we be looking for.

1:38:55So we'll work with staff to draft to draft terms of reference and a mandate and then to try and design a composition to match that mandate.

1:39:03But you're absolutely right. That will be more, you know, the broader you make the mandate, the more difficult it is to specify a composition that brings you all of those skills.

1:39:11The more you narrow it, that can be a little bit easier, but it has its own sort of drawbacks.

1:39:16So we'll aim to land this in the middle, but it's important to us that the advisory committees themselves remain strategic in nature. So we're not looking for operational or technical feedback from advisory committees.

1:39:31That could be a part of what they deliver absolutely and certain members will bring that.

1:39:35But generally speaking, we have technical experts on staff can provide that type of advice to council and we don't look for that sort of operational work to be done by volunteers and quite frankly, I don't know if it would be fair for us to ask that of volunteers.

1:39:49So there'll be a balance on these committees of professional expertise of lived expertise, but we do want to make sure that the advice they're providing to council and to staff is at the strategic level.

1:39:58So it's advice about the drafting on an implementation of master plans and strategies and that kind of thing. And it's not on the operational side. And I think that helps us balance out the composition, but that is something we'll consider when we draft those terms of reference to bring the council for approval.

1:40:15Anyone else.

1:40:26So I had a question raised it earlier, but just to go back to it earlier before the meeting started.

1:40:32So there were 14 committees and the recommendation is go to go down to seven.

1:40:38However, going down to seven and to run these committees as suggested means that one new full time person would have to be hired.

1:40:51So there's a financial part or component to running these committees.

1:40:58So, I guess my question is two fold. Number one is what happens if council doesn't approve.

1:41:07And I don't know what the value might be for a full time person. So I don't know what that value, but whatever it is, if council doesn't approve it, then what happens? Do we carry on with the existing 14 or what.

1:41:23And I guess the second part of that question is if we're going down from 14 to seven that would appear to me that you need less time.

1:41:36You know, less time because there's fewer meetings, but we're reducing the committees in half by half and asking for one additional full time person.

1:41:48So, I'm not exactly sure I follow that.

1:41:53Yeah, I appreciate the question because I understand it's, it's pretty counterintuitive on its face. So I'll answer the second question and then the first one I think so the reason that we need an extra staff person.

1:42:04There's, there's really two things. The first is that if we look at tonight's meeting, for example, the planning advisory committee.

1:42:11You have already been supported from for some time directly by the city clerk's office. So you've got when you on the call who's important committee coordinator. You've got me on the call tonight as your clerk.

1:42:20And we also have another team member Joey tank hosting the virtual meeting. We typically have 1 or 2 staff today's a bit of an exception because of the presentation, but the reality is most of our advisory committees currently do not get that level of support.

1:42:32There's only our statutory committees. So planning advisory committee heritage, golf, accessibility advisory committee. These folks have that clerk's office support right now.

1:42:41There's the vast majority of our committees, 9 or 10 that operate just with the resources of departmental staff. And that's not a bad thing per se, but there's been recent changes in the courts about how we classify advisory committees.

1:42:55So, at this point in time, any advisory committee created by council is a local board under the municipal act. And all that means is that when you meet as the planning advisory committee.

1:43:05You have to follow, believe it or not, the exact same legislative framework that applies to members of city council. So this meeting is open to the public members can watch they can delegate. We have to have agendas and public notice provided.

1:43:16It also means as committee members, the city council code of conduct applies to you and there's an integrity commissioner who can receive complaints from the public about code of conduct violations conduct investigations.

1:43:27Likewise, because the open meeting requirements of the municipal act apply to all local boards. That means that if this meeting were not open to the public, like it is right now, a member of the public could file a closed meeting investigation.

1:43:38And ultimately have public reports indicating that a meeting was held improperly enclosed. So that legislative framework.

1:43:45Requires clerk's office support. I don't expect folks in planning or water or museums or you name any of our great departmental staff.

1:43:53They're not legislative services experts. They're not experts in parliamentary procedure or the framework that applies to committees.

1:43:59So we believe for all of our committees to be legislatively compliant first and foremost, but also to be effective in their decision making really need that clerk's office support.

1:44:08So, while the number of committees goes down, the level of support that they're getting goes up significantly.

1:44:13The other component I mentioned earlier, which is despite the number going down, we expect the number of meetings to stay relatively the same.

1:44:20So if we're meeting monthly, that means we have to have members of clerk's office staff available for those meetings. And of course you can imagine with just when he has one board and committee coordinator.

1:44:29If when he wants to take a couple of well deserved weeks off, that's problematic for us when it comes to supporting our committees.

1:44:35So we need those additional resources to make sure that we've always got coverage so our committees can meet whenever they need to.

1:44:41And, you know, we just had a conversation about a form check for this committee.

1:44:45Our policy in the clerk's office is that we're never a part of form checks because we'll support any meeting of council and any advisory committee anytime they can meet.

1:44:53And we make it work on the staff side, but in order to have that level of flexibility, we also need the resourcing in place.

1:45:00And council codified that in the governance framework. So we heard really clearly from the working group we had in phase 1 that a lower number of well resourced and effective committees was preferable to a higher number of, I'll say, you know, lower resourced or more poorly resourced committees.

1:45:16So it is going down in number, the number of meetings, however, staying the same and the level of support we expect to be significantly, significantly higher.

1:45:24So it is counterintuitive. If that additional support isn't provided by council, we've been very upfront with them as recently as November of last year when they approved the framework to say we believe for committees to be effective and for volunteers on committees to have their time valued.

1:45:41If we're not going to assign the resources, we shouldn't have the committees. So if council did make a decision to say, you know, we're not going to allocate funding to support committees, then we would go back to council and say we can only support adequately.

1:45:53The statutory committees of which planning advisory committee would be 1.

1:45:58And then we would look to further parse down that list to just the statutory committees. That's not our recommendation. That's not what I think is going to happen.

1:46:07Every interaction I have with members of council when we talk about advisory committees, they reiterate to me how important advisory committees are and how seriously they take the feedback that you give them.

1:46:18So I would be surprised if we ended up in a position where we didn't have that resourcing, but that's not to say it's not possible. It is going to be at council's discretion.

1:46:27Thank you.

1:46:30Thank you for that. Any other comments, feedback?

1:46:36Yes, Darren.

1:46:40Thanks, Mariah.

1:46:42Dylan, can you tell me a little bit about the mandate of the other committees that would be merged together to form this new committee?

1:46:53Absolutely. I'm going to quickly pull up some terms of reference here to make sure that I'm using the correct, the correct language. So just give me 1 minute.

1:47:04The water conservation and efficiency advisory committee.

1:47:10I think is relatively clear in its name. They're generally providing advice on programming and strategy related to water use and golf.

1:47:17So think about, you know, our policies about we have the sort of green, yellow, red water advisory levels. There would have been feedback from that committee as we implement that process.

1:47:26When we're talking about water reduction strategies in the city or water use policies that committee is providing advice on all of the strategic level documents related to drinking water use specifically.

1:47:36So it's not storm water. It's not wastewater. It is specific to drinking water.

1:47:42And we'll just pull up the natural heritage.

1:47:45The natural heritage committee is providing advice and comments on natural heritage conservation initiatives of city plan strategies and studies such as the natural heritage action plan, the urban forest management plan.

1:47:57Sub waterships, sub watershed studies, my apology, as well as reviews and updates to the official plan related to natural heritage and water resource policies.

1:48:08So even some of the language there, I see some overlap between that committee, what you guys do and what and what water does.

1:48:14The 4th committee, the waste resource innovation center committee is an interesting 1.

1:48:18There is a statutory requirement.

1:48:21When you have a.

1:48:23So we call it the waste resource innovation center when you have a dump just to use the lay term. There is a requirement.

1:48:29Provincially that you consult with folks who live within a certain distance. I think for obvious reasons, it can impact them.

1:48:36But there is no requirement that that consultation be an advisory committee.

1:48:40So the elements of the waste resource committee that we'd like to.

1:48:44Spin into the planning environment and water committee is related to the environmental impact. So how do we process and handle wasting wealth or 3 stream collection?

1:48:53We've now got a blue box transition moving the collection of recyclable materials to producers. It would be all of that type of work.

1:49:00The public liaison element with the folks who live nearby that would transition to like a community working group.

1:49:06But that really is advice from those folks to the people running the facility. It's not advice to counsel. So we see it a little bit differently than the role of an advisory committee.

1:49:17Okay.

1:49:20That's really helpful.

1:49:24So these so the water and natural heritage committees.

1:49:32I give a feeling the waste resource liaison is probably not a frequent.

1:49:39Meeting the other 2 committees.

1:49:42Are they.

1:49:44Are they closer to like the committee of adjustment.

1:49:49A burden of meetings or are they closer to like the planning advisory committee.

1:49:55You know, number of meetings where were they like us where they were meeting 3, 4 times a year.

1:50:02I'm glad you asked the question. So I'll go back to 2023 as a last full year example. The water conservation and efficiency advisory committee met twice in 2023.

1:50:13And natural heritage met once in 2023.

1:50:17So we, we could be in a position where we merge these 4 committees and have a net increase in the number of meetings or you know, it's roughly equal within within a couple either way.

1:50:28Okay.

1:50:30Yeah, all of this is really helpful though. Thanks. So from that perspective, I mean.

1:50:36In principle, I'd be okay with the merger of the committees. I think there's there's some alignment.

1:50:45I mean, obviously a lot.

1:50:48Oh, uh, before these are endorsed, is there like a terms of reference that gets put together for the committee? So we're clear on what it would do.

1:50:59Yes, so the process we've established, like I say, we're coming back to all of 14 of our committees at this point to get.

1:51:08I think the term you use was sort of agreement in principle. I think that's a good way to think about it. We want to know from the committees that you're supportive.

1:51:15Of these mergers.

1:51:17We thought about coming back to the committees again with the actual terms of reference to say, okay, you were supported. You know, that's great. Here's the terms of reference.

1:51:25The issue on my end to be quite honest is, is timing.

1:51:28Every time we go back to all 14 of our committees.

1:51:31That's adding roughly 4 months to the project. This project has been going on for 2 years.

1:51:36So it's not that I necessarily wouldn't want to come back or I don't think you guys would have a lot of good advice. I think the reality is at this point.

1:51:43We've we've got to go to council. So there would be an opportunity to provide feedback to council through delegations or sending a chair of a committee when those actual terms of reference are published.

1:51:53We'll certainly provide those to committee, all committee members.

1:51:57I think we're going to be a little bit in advance of them going public to the extent that I can, but we're not coming back to the committee with that terms of reference and that that comes down mostly to timing.

1:52:07We made a decision that we'd rather have your endorsement of the idea of a merger and then leave sort of the working out of those technical components of the terms of reference to staff and then council's approval.

1:52:19We did think about, do we do the opposite? Do we come with the terms of reference and say, here's a new committee. Here's the terms of reference.

1:52:25There is it's a lot of work to build a terms of reference. So, if we bring that forward and then we hear from a committee, we don't like this merger. We don't like this idea.

1:52:34There's a lot of time that has been spent to get there and it makes the next step a bit of a bit of a question mark. So it's an it's an imperfect system, but this is sort of where we landed.

1:52:44I know Lisa or I think Lisa has a question. So, just one more quick.

1:52:50I think before, so I'm assuming there's a lot of flexibility.

1:52:56With the other committees because they're not statutory committees, except for the liaison function, which won't even be part of this committee. So, because the flexibility and the planning advisory committee terms of reference as well, even though it's statutory.

1:53:12I guess you don't really need the terms of reference developed before you.

1:53:20You know, like, I think I looked at the motion, like the sample motion, I think it is just a, you know, we agree in principle that you create this committee.

1:53:30So, I guess where I'm going with this is there's still a lot of flexibility. Right.

1:53:37You mean when we talk about the mandate of the new committee.

1:53:41Yeah. Yeah. So, planning is a really interesting.

1:53:45Example of a statutory committee. It's the only statutory committee we have where the province has said, you must have a planning advisory committee.

1:53:52But they've given no direction about what that committee must do.

1:53:55That's unusual. You know, like, we have an accessibility advisory committee that we must have.

1:54:00We also have provincial government regulations, which outline a whole series of things that that committee must do. They must review the following types of things.

1:54:09They must provide the following type of feedback planning planning is unique in that the statutory part is having the committee and what it does or what it provides feedback on is really up to the local councils who are establishing them.

1:54:21I don't anticipate at this point that the current mandate of the planning committee as it's merged into this new one would change significantly. Like, I don't think you're going to, you're not going to see it terms of reference in early next year.

1:54:34We go, wow, that's a completely different set of, you know, policies or programs that are coming before us.

1:54:40But it will need to be merged and we'll need to be mindful of language and overlap when we do it. But I think that function remains largely, largely the same.

1:54:48The, the other piece that's worth remembering is the, as of right now, there's no sort of review process for committees, right? Like, there's no process that you go through on an annual or by annual or whatever basis to sort of go.

1:55:01Is this working the governance framework embeds that in the way these committees work. So we will strike new committees. We'll get them appointed.

1:55:08There will be meetings sometime around the summer of next year and there is a four year review cycle for each committee and that is largely driven by a self assessment.

1:55:17So when a new committee is struck, we will ask the committee based on your terms of reference that council approved. What does success look like in four years?

1:55:25There'll be some set components from the clerk's office and whatnot, but there'll also be an optional component to go, you know, if we're looking ahead four years, what would success look like?

1:55:33We'll come back to that committee at the end of that four year period and go, this is what we said. Did it work? Did it not work? And then from that, we will bring reports to council to say, you know what, some things are working well, but we really heard from the committee that the terms of reference should be tweaked this way to make this thing more functional or whatever it is.

1:55:52So never again will there be like a an eight year, 10 year, 20 year period where we're not here having those conversations with you.

1:56:00So when it comes to getting the actual committee feedback to alter or amend those terms of reference, it's in that review cycle.

1:56:10So that doesn't help you right now. I realize with your question, perhaps, but maybe it gives a little bit of confidence that we do in principle want to make sure that committees have some ability to provide comments to council on their terms of reference.

1:56:21It's just the initial striking that is problematic from a timing perspective. After that, it gets embedded in our, in our review processes.

1:56:28Okay. Thanks. No problem.

1:56:31Anybody else?

1:56:35So, I guess Darren, one of Darren's second to last questions spawned another question.

1:56:41And I guess I'm.

1:56:44To Dylan.

1:56:47My previous experience with the natural heritage committee was that they were actually advising the city council for.

1:57:00Scoped environmental, not environmental assessments, but the, the study small study environmental assessment requirements for for zoning and stuff like that.

1:57:15Has that role been removed from that committee.

1:57:21Now that the city actually has natural heritage planning staff reviewing those scoped environmental study areas.

1:57:30I don't know if that's a question I'll be able to answer for you right now. I'm not a planner and I would, I'm not attending every single committee meeting. So those changes.

1:57:40I don't know that I can capture, but it's the question once a one meeting a year.

1:57:44Yeah, they that that committee used to meet every every second to every, every 2 months on a Tuesday night.

1:57:52And had a pretty packed agenda and was critical.

1:57:58To the planning process.

1:58:00Yeah, so I'm looking back at the.

1:58:02So, these are natural heritage advisory committees, committee meetings held from 22 to 2024, which is the only or the most information I can grab easily right now.

1:58:13In that time period, they haven't met more than 3 times a year, but I know there, there has been elements of that mandate that have been included in, in previous committees and previous versions of committees.

1:58:25Generally speaking, when we've made changes to committees over the years, we have looked to remove the sort of operational or technical expertise and focus the committees on the more strategic level work.

1:58:37That's a distinct shift from, let's say, even 10, 15, and then certainly 20 plus years ago where 1 of the reasons that we had committees is we were at that time, a smaller municipality.

1:58:48So we didn't have, for example, a full time water hydrologist and we relied on an environmental advisory committee that had a couple of them to provide very specific types of technical expertise to us.

1:58:58Generally speaking, at the size we are now, we have that expertise on on staff and we don't need to sort of go out to community volunteers.

1:59:06To get it, and I think broadly when we think about advisory committees as an engagement tool, when we talk about public engagement, we're usually, and there is some exceptions this, but we're usually not talking about like detailed technical expertise or advice.

1:59:21We may engage with the community to get that type of advice, but of course there's many other ways that we engage with folks.

1:59:28So it's the simple things, it's surveys online and that kind of thing, but we also have working groups for a variety of policies.

1:59:36So you know when we're developing a policy that doesn't align specifically with the mandate of an advisory committee, a bylaw review, for example, it's very common for bylaw reviews that they will bring together a stakeholder working group of the folks who are most directly impacted or have that expertise.

1:59:51So that's just an example of another way that some of that sort of more operational or technical feedback.

1:59:57We still get that from the community at times, but typically not in the guise of an advisory committee of council.

2:00:03And it's that of council that I think is really important. We have some committees when we presented to them in the spring and said, you know, do you feel like you provide much advice to council.

2:00:13They had a hard time identifying a time recently where they had it's not that they're not giving advice and it's not that it's bad advice. They're giving advice to staff.

2:00:21And if we're going to have an advisory committee of council and put in the work and the resources required to maintain it, we really think they ought to be providing advice to council.

2:00:31And the advice that council wants is that higher level strategic advice, the advice that staff needed times is operational. And there's other ways that we can work to get it, whether it's by hiring staff with that skill set or engaging with the community in a different way.

2:00:43Okay, I thank you for that answer. And I would support the resolution that's drafted.

2:00:57So I'm seeing some nodding. So, but for any other questions from anybody comments questions.

2:01:08Okay, so there's a recommendation to put forth the resolution that the planning advisory committee recommends to city council.

2:01:17The creation of a planning environment environment and water advisory committee.

2:01:24So can I ask for a motion? Sorry.

2:01:31You move. Okay. The seconder Lisa all in favor.

2:01:46Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And I will just say, because when you and I have been talking to.

2:01:51Committee members for the last year and a half now I am.

2:01:55I don't mean to be corny. I am continually impressed with the amount of time that our volunteers are willing to put into this and knowing that these mergers result in fewer committee seats and have impacts on people.

2:02:05I just think it's a real testament to to you all and the work you're putting in and the amount you care about our community that you've been as engaged as you have been and are able to support it. So I just want to say thank you for that.

2:02:15You're welcome.

2:02:20Okay, it is a 36. So I'm going to move along here. Item number 3. Are there any announcements.

2:02:28From anybody anything we need to know. Okay.

2:02:37Sorry, sorry, Maria. Hi, I do. I do have, I do have 1 shortly that I can just touch on. So committee members might have heard earlier tonight.

2:02:48So regarding the community improvement plan that Christine's group is leading. So I just wanted to share an additional program.

2:02:56That will be included as part of that. So some committee members.

2:03:00Through work on the housing affordable, the housing accelerator fund may have also heard that we are developing an incentive program.

2:03:10So residential dwelling units. So these are your units that are like your basement apartments or perhaps a backyard unit.

2:03:19An extension on your home, for example, that function as a fully self contained unit.

2:03:24But probably on a lot that already has a primary unit. So we are looking to offer additional monetary incentives for these kinds of units.

2:03:34And I think that the caveat being that these units would be rented at an affordable rate for about 15 years.

2:03:42So I can share some information with the committee on, on that.

2:03:48And it will be included as part of the community improvement plan as I mentioned. So you will also see that information included in the staff report.

2:03:56So we are looking at a little bit of information going on November 13th as Christine mentioned, but just to walk the committee members through kind of that information relatively quickly, knowing that we're kind of a little, kind of a little broaching over past our time.

2:04:10But we are looking at two separate streams as part of that incentive program, kind of what we're calling a homeowner stream and a project stream.

2:04:19So the homeowner stream would be geared more towards homeowners. So homeowners that are looking maybe to renovate their basement, looking to create a fully fledged unit in there, but perhaps need some financial capital in order to do so.

2:04:32So we're looking to provide some grant money through that as long again as I mentioned that that unit is rented at an affordable rate for about 15 years.

2:04:41And the other stream is what we're calling a project stream. So this would be for multiple ad use. So maybe as part of a larger project somebody is looking to take, take a larger lot and perhaps put a different configuration of units on there, whether through a subdivision process or something like that.

2:05:01And basically this would again would be incentives, financial incentives that would go towards those particular units again with the caveat being that those units are rented at an affordable rate for, for 15 years.

2:05:13So, committee members will see more information being shared about that, about that particular program in the coming weeks. And again, as I mentioned really, when it will be most public will when it's going to council on November 13th for, for the public meeting there.

2:05:30But we will be having further engagement in November and December on this particular, on this particular point and additional kind of an awareness campaigns that are that are a part of this, of this particular program.

2:05:44So definitely looking for committee members thoughts and feedback at those at those times. And again, as Christine mentioned, there will be also an opportunity to hear more about this particular program on November 13th as well.

2:05:57How is this being funded? Where is the money from?

2:06:01Yeah, so this is another housing accelerator fund initiative so the money is provided again. As Christine mentioned from the federal government here as well too and very similar to the CIP we also have those tight timelines as well so it's.

2:06:16It will be included as part of the community improvement plan as a, as a, another program in, in that plan. And, and again, we're looking to get that money spent by the end of 2026.

2:06:34Do you.

2:06:35Do you have the total value that that person should program.

2:06:44So, are you looking at like the total value that we have to spend on all grants or like it. Yeah, so we have about 2.5 million dollars for, for that particular initiative.

2:06:56Okay.

2:07:05Any questions.

2:07:10Comments.

2:07:11Obviously that information will be seen out there to the public and be shared with all the rest of it with the rest of the package.

2:07:21Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, you'll see that included as part of the staff report in the, in the council presentation on, on November 13th as well. It'll be 1 of the programs that's presented as part of the CIP.

2:07:32Okay.

2:07:34Thank you.

2:07:36Let's see where we are. We're at adjournment.

2:07:43Is there anything else anybody wants to say before I ask for resolution to adjourn the meeting.

2:07:50Final thoughts, final comments.

2:07:55If not, can I ask for a motion to adjourn the meeting at 841.

2:08:02Okay, Darren. Second, Lisa all in favor.

2:08:07Carried. Thank you very much. Everybody.

2:08:10Cush live scene has already sent an email trying to set up our next meeting. Thank you very much. So we, if we can all enter that for tomorrow, that would be absolutely fantastic.

2:08:22Then we'll know what we're doing. And aside from that meeting.

2:08:27So, when do you think the next regularly scheduled meeting might take place?

2:08:33I believe we already have Brenna is also working on another project on downtown heights with with another staff member and they, they've also indicated that they'd like to come back before the end of the year.

2:08:45So, there could be 1 more meeting before the end of the year if, if there's a, if we can find time as well for that.

2:08:53Okay.

2:08:54Yeah, okay. Well, send us an email and we'll try to set something up.

2:08:58Thank you everybody have a good evening and we'll see you all soon.

2:09:04Good night.