Municipal Election Compliance Audit Committee

0:04Okay, good afternoon. I'll call the meeting to order. My name is Steven O'Brien. I'm the city clerk here at the city of Guelph and

0:10I'm here to sort of walk the committee through section one on your agendas and for those that are watching at home

0:16And happy to call the July 17th 2023 meeting of the municipal election compliance audit committee to order

0:23Seated with me are members of the committee Ting Ting Sue Rosita C

0:28Robert Williams Carl Zaire and joining online on screen is Chris Fletcher

0:33The purpose of today's meeting is to consider the application filed by Amanda Turner with respect to the campaign finances of Ty Mac a

0:39candidate for Ward 1 in the 2022 municipal elections the first order of business as you'll see on the agenda is

0:47Will be as follows a First Nations acknowledgement disclosure of pecuniary interest

0:51We will I'll walk the committee through the election of the chair and vice chair and then I will happily turn it over to

0:57Whomever is elected as chair because as clerk it's awkward for me to be even starting a meeting like this

1:02And I'm happy to turn it over

1:04To whichever of the committee members is elected as chair

1:08So again, I'll start with the first nation's acknowledgement as we gather

1:11We are reminded that Guelph is situated on treaty land that is steeped in rich indigenous history and home to many first nations

1:18Inuit and Métis peoples today as a city

1:20We have a responsibility for the stewardship of the land on which we live and work

1:24Today we acknowledge the Mississauga's of the credit first nation of the Anishinaabek peoples on whose traditional territory

1:30We are meeting and with that I'll ask if there's any disclosures of pecuni and sorry pecuniary interest and the general nature of those disclosures

1:41And I'm not seeing any thank you

1:43And then moving to the election of chair and vice chair

1:46I'll look to the committee members to see if anyone would like to nominate someone amongst yourselves

1:50To serve as chair

1:52I'll recognize member Fletcher go ahead

1:55I'd like to recommend that Robert Williams be appointed as chair for the MECAT committee

2:02And do we have a seconder for that?

2:04Members there, thank you very much

2:06All those in favor

2:09Aries, thank you. Congratulations

2:12Chair Williams, I will take the opportunity to appoint the vice chair this time as well. Chair Williams just for

2:19expediency

2:20And so I'll look to the committee members as soon as we've done before anyone wish to move a member to serve as vice chair amongst yourselves

2:27Rosita

2:28I would like to nominate Carl Sair to be the vice chair, please

2:32Do we have a seconder appointing

2:34Members there as vice chair. Yeah member Fletcher. Thank you very much all those in favor

2:41Thank you very much that carries

2:44and with that

2:46Chair Williams, I'll hand it over to you

2:53That got me on. Okay. Good. We need to start with that

2:58Thank you, uh, go Brian. We have

3:02A procedure to follow here, which is spelled out in some ways in the legislation

3:07There's a lot of detail in there

3:09So we'll have to work our way through with the advice of of staff to make sure we do things the right way and

3:15following the city's own procedural

3:17bylaws as well, so

3:20There are some background pieces that

3:23We just need to remind those who are watching from afar and even in the room that that the the role of the

3:31committee the compliance audit committee is not to reach a decision

3:35About the application itself, but to determine whether the application should be sent on for an audit

3:43By an external party. So you're not going to get that kind of a decision today

3:48Although the committee has the

3:52Authority to turn down the application

3:55But that that is something we will get to

3:58Obviously through later through the afternoon

4:01so

4:02We'll move to the application

4:04requesting a compliance audit under section

4:0788.33 of the municipal elections act

4:10And I would like to really ask the applicant

4:13Apologies chair. If I can just interrupt. I do apologize

4:16If we can have the adoption of the minutes from the last

4:19Compliance audit committee meeting. So that's the meeting of may 15th 2019

4:23To be confirmed as recorded and without being read. I do apologize for that. Okay. I'll move that

4:30All right and a seconder for that

4:33Okay, we have razita seconding that

4:35Resultably all in all those in favor of adopting those minutes

4:40Okay, that's carried. Thank you

4:43Okay, thank you. So we will then

4:46Turn to the applicant Amanda Turner

4:49And the candidate time Mac who is appearing on screen

4:52Just to be clear the both parties

4:56Have

4:5710 minutes

4:58To speak and are to address their comments to the committee

5:03And I will

5:05Rely on on clerk's help to remind the speakers when they have 30 seconds left

5:10To to make their

5:12Remark to conclude their remarks. So I would like to call on the applicant Amanda Turner to address the committee

5:20Good afternoon. My name is Amanda Turner. My pronouns are she and her

5:28I am the applicant who submitted this request for compliance audit

5:32Before we begin, I would just like to thank all of you for taking time out of your day to participate in this process

5:38I would also like to extend my appreciation to the candidate for providing a written response that sheds further light

5:43On the topics raised in my submission

5:47As a wealth resident voter and taxpayer, I firmly believe that our election should be conducted with utmost transparency

5:53And it is with this in mind that I submitted my request for a compliance audit

5:59The grounds for my requests are rooted and publicly available information

6:03Including the candidate's financial statement and public campaign materials

6:09I have no insider information

6:11And I have no new information to bring to the table today outside of what was in my initial submission

6:17Nonetheless, I believe that the grounds outlined in my submission are reasonable and warrant further examination

6:25And lighted the candidates written response submitted last week. I would just like to emphasize a couple of points from my initial submissions

6:33Firstly regarding the candidates campaign contributions

6:37Transparency is of utmost importance when it comes to campaign contributions

6:42Particularly in a relatively small city like ours, where even a modest amount of financial support

6:48Can have a significant impact on advertising, signage and brochure coverage throughout the city during election campaigns

6:56When I looked at the campaign, the candidates financial statement

6:59Next to the candidates campaign materials, I could not help but raise concerns that in my view

7:04Warrant a more thorough examination

7:07Secondly with regard to expenses related to the candidates website

7:13I find the candidates explanation of this and his written response to be reasonable

7:17And I have no further concerns about it

7:20I once again want to thank the candidate for bringing this information to light

7:24Sorry about that

7:25Finally, I would like to draw attention to the fact that the municipal elections act has a purposely broad definition of campaign

7:36advertising

7:38Under section 88.31 it is defined as an advertisement in any broadcast print electronic or other medium

7:46That has the purpose of promoting or supporting the election of a candidate

7:52While the candidate rightly points out in his written submission that not all social media posts constitute advertising

7:58I submit that there is a clear distinction between personal facebook posts that one would make to their friends and family

8:04Posts that one would make to their friends and followers

8:08And the promotion of the candidates campaign through the cotton gulf facebook group

8:14The cotton gulf facebook group existed prior to the 2022 election

8:20It had a substantial following of over 30 34 000 people at the time of the election presumably many of whom would live in gulf

8:28And it is explicitly operated and marketed by the candidate not only as a community forum

8:33But also as an advertising platform

8:37The candidate sold sponsorship opportunities within the group to local businesses

8:41Displaying their logos in the group spanner image and making sponsored posts on their behalf in the group

8:47The candidate's website cotton gulf.com

8:51Includes a page specifically outlining advertising opportunities in the group stating quote

8:57Get the most value per advertising dollars spent with a cotton gulf community trusted sponsorship

9:03Just to be clear that there's no distinction between advertising and sponsorship here the sponsorship is it is advertising

9:11The candidate also acknowledged the advertising nature of the cotton gulf group

9:16In response to another candidate's inquiry about advertising opportunities

9:21On page seven of the candidate's written submissions

9:24He wrote in an email to another candidate who had inquired about advertising opportunities

9:30In the near future there may be equal sponsorship opportunities for all gulf municipal candidates

9:38There appears there to be some recognition on the part of the candidate even back then

9:42um, but what what he was doing in the cotton gulf group was advertising and um

9:48He subsequently declined to extend that opportunity to others based on his submissions

9:54Businesses pay to advertise in the group

9:57The candidate declined to allow other candidates to advertise in the group

10:01Yet promoted his own campaign in the group

10:04I would submit that this is advertising as described by the act and it should have been properly expensed as advertising

10:11Although social media plays an increasingly significant role in our elections

10:16At all levels of government it remains loosely regulated

10:21Therefore transparency in this realm is of paramount importance in order to

10:25Ensure the continued fairness of our electoral process

10:31Once again, I'd just like to express my gratitude to you all and

10:35For your time and consideration and for your patience. I've never done anything like this before. I'm rather nervous

10:41But thank you for your patience on that. Um, I'm here today to provide any necessary clarification

10:47On my submissions and to answer your questions to the best of my ability

10:52Thank you very much

10:55Thank you

10:56now members of the committee have an opportunity to ask questions of you

11:01And I will give the floor to

11:04any members of the committee who would like to

11:07Put those questions at this point

11:10Carl

11:12Thank you, mr

11:15You alluded to uh, the one this point a few moments ago, but I want you to clarify it with you or confirm

11:24Um, do you have any specific information?

11:28Uh, that donations were

11:31Taken or received rather by the candidate

11:36I do not have that specific information. Um, I only have what was publicly available, which was financial statements and um

11:44The candidates campaign materials, but I have no information beyond that

11:49Thank you. Uh follow up

11:51there are a number of

11:54documents that you provided in terms of website, uh or

11:58facebook

12:00so on

12:02related to the

12:04material that

12:07Mr. Mack was

12:10Doing online

12:13Was there anything in any of those documents or anything else that you could provide?

12:19that speaks to

12:21the the issue

12:23of receiving donations it appears that you're

12:27uh

12:29Your concern is that

12:32No donations were recorded

12:36Is there something more to that or is it about the

12:41Facification of the uh the costs that were in his financial statement. Uh, can you clarify that for us?

12:49With regard to the issue of contributions

12:52Um, it was the fact that donations were were solicited and the

12:58Such clear instructions were provided as to how to donate the fact that the candidate

13:02Was a well-known figure in the wealth business community the fact that there were hundreds of signs on lawns across the city

13:09The fact that he had a great deal of support on social media and a great deal of engagement. I was just so

13:15surprised to hear that not one

13:18Sent was received in contributions and it raised concerns with me that something had been missed

13:25But I don't have specific information on any one specific contribution

13:29Okay, thank you

13:34Sorry other members of the committee with questions

13:38The applicant all right seeing none and we will move on to uh

13:46Mr. Mack as the candidate who was again up to 10 minutes to

13:51Rest to speak to the committee and we will provide our reminder if we get to the end of that time

14:04I think uh, we're not hearing you

14:11Hi, can you hear me now? There we are now good. Thank you. Okay

14:14Um in regards to my submitted file the time act response and supporting evidence

14:20um

14:21So I I written here as a dear municipal election compliance audit committee members and members of the city clerk's office

14:28Please find below are my responses

14:30To the allegations against myself that was brought forth by word to resident

14:34Amanda Turner

14:35I respect the process available in our democratic society as noted in section 88.33 of the municipal elections act 1996 and

14:44I do want to thank everyone for uh being here today and allowing me to

14:49respond to this

14:52These allegations against myself and you know, I want to thank the committee members for taking the time out today

14:58I know it was a little task to gather everyone together and matching up schedules

15:02and you know, considering everyone's backgrounds and credentials is very impressive and I am honored to be uh

15:08presented in front of you today

15:10So I did make notes of each allegations towards myself as everyone has a copy of and

15:19General the generalization is that Amanda Turner hasn't presented any

15:23um

15:26Evidence that suggests I had received any donations from anyone. Um

15:32You know as a business owner I campaign on fiscal responsibility

15:37And as such I didn't enter into a campaign dependent on donations. I put out donation

15:43requests and solicitations as with any other candidate would and any municipal election

15:48But it doesn't mean I received any why I didn't receive any maybe people thought I didn't need any or maybe I didn't have that support

15:55regardless, I didn't win the election

15:58and and it's shown there. So I don't feel that my

16:01campaign was

16:04extravagant and advertising or spending it was relatively simple

16:08um, I did some facebook advertising

16:10uh through my campaign

16:12Facebook page and also um a little bit of google advertising, which wasn't very uh

16:18I got extensive in that regard. So I have provided

16:23um all of my finances that adds up and I classified it under the advertising

16:30Um section and the other thing I want to point out is that

16:35um regarding the website cost although it did satisfy Amanda's um inquiry

16:40I you know, there were many other candidates who also didn't list

16:44their website or um some people didn't

16:48file their finances at all and I find that to be a much larger issue. But yet the same um

16:55applicants who was quite vocal about my candidacy during the election

16:59I brought these allegations towards myself. So I feel that it is possibly

17:04uh vindictive in nature and you know like

17:08with my supporting evidence and her lack of evidence, I feel that

17:13um this hearing you know is unjust and and

17:19at this time I would request a uh dismissal based on a lack of evidence

17:24and also regarding the advertising in the social media group I had explained there

17:29how in um my meeting with uh the city clerk's office, Steven O'Brien and

17:36Jennifer Slater, we did have that discussion and it was you know in agreement that it is a very gray area

17:43um

17:44So even if I wanted to register the Facebook group as a third party advertiser, there was no defined

17:52uh definition that would qualify the group to register

17:55and at the same time, I didn't do any actual paid political advertising. So to err on the side of caution, I kept everything apart from that

18:04and being an admin of a group, um I did communicate to the group that I was running into the

18:10running for council and you know in such because I am um the admin of the group, I want to let people know

18:18hey this is what I'm doing, you know who I am, but I did not

18:22explicitly solicit a yes or no um answer. I didn't say hey vote for me constantly in that regard. So

18:30going through the social media post, I don't find there to be any conflicts that would require me to register as a third party advertiser

18:42So apart from that, I feel that the file I had submitted

18:48is a fairly good explanation of my finances as well as

18:56the definitions on why I didn't need to register as a third party

19:00political advertiser.

19:06Does that conclude the remarks you wish to make to the committee at this point?

19:10Yes, I believe so. If there's any further questions then I'd be happy to try and answer that

19:16Okay as we've done a few moments ago, members of the committee are free to ask questions of the candidate at this point

19:25Are there any such questions?

19:29Yes

19:30Mr. Mack, can you please let us know um for the advertising expense of $3,310

19:36Do you have a detailed breakdown of what makes up that amount?

19:40Yes, I do. In my file submitted

19:43I have

19:50$1,000 sorry it's on page eight

19:54So $1,000 was for the website and that includes the HST

20:01$2,196.26 for Facebook advertising

20:07And there is also a breakdown of all of the campaigns for the Facebook advertising

20:12And then $114.44 for Google AdWords and there's a screenshot of my entire 2022 Google AdWords spending

20:23So that adds up to $3,310.70

20:28And as I had mentioned my campaign was relatively simple. There wasn't anything extravagant apart from that

20:38Any follow-up questions?

20:44Yes, just a clarification on the answer to that you mentioned on page eight

20:51I think we hit seven pages. So I'm not sure

20:55What is being referenced

21:00Sorry, maybe I'll jump in I apologize candidate Mack

21:03I can confirm that online there are full 11 pages to mr. Mack's submission

21:09I'll confirm if there's an error in the in the package you received members there. All right, okay

21:14Oh

21:15Yeah, that'd be very relevant if

21:18They're missing pages eight to 11 because I have a lot of information on those just not in front of me. Okay. Thank you

21:26I have some other questions, please

21:29um

21:32on the face of the

21:34the claim

21:36that um and the report itself

21:40indicating that there are no

21:42Donations other than yourself mr. Mack or you or your uh, your spouse

21:50It was very unusual having been involved in some political campaigns. I understand that that is a very

21:57unusual situation

21:59um, so I'd have to ask

22:02Although it may or may not be

22:04Pertinent because I will get to see that

22:07Why did you solicit donations?

22:10if you if I was

22:13If I were to if I were to um receive additional

22:18Uh funding for my campaign then I would certainly put that to use

22:24But apart from that I would be limited to my existing spending

22:28My uh spending limit. Sorry

22:31Yeah, and that was a significant amount. Um

22:358300 dollars and change

22:37Yes, so my my total spending

22:41was

22:44Um, I believe well below that so yes, yes

22:51So did you receive any queries about?

22:54um

22:56The process of donations either on facebook or verbally

23:01Or in any other way

23:03No

23:07My solicitation my solicitation for donations online

23:12um through my website and also through uh my facebook post

23:17Received zero inquiries of any kind

23:20Okay, thank you

23:23and um

23:28I guess it may be a moot point, but I still have to ask the question

23:32Uh, did you return any donations that you deemed that you were not going to accept for any reason whatsoever?

23:41I couldn't return anything when none had been received

23:44Okay

23:45I also want to make note that during my campaign

23:50There was a lot of negative press towards myself

23:53And with such negative press that may have contributed to people being hesitant on making any such donations

24:04There was a claim that was made and it uh, it may or may not be relevant, but it's it's in the report

24:10Um by miss turner that there were some comments today

24:16Some

24:17candidates

24:19Were declined the free advertising on the website that was referenced. Is that true?

24:27So uh ward two resident erin

24:30Captain she was also running for ward one and she had inquired about uh political advertising for her campaign

24:37On the social media facebook group that I run

24:40um

24:41prior

24:43Prior to that I had a meeting with uh, steven with a city clerk

24:47Stephen o'brien and jenniforce later. We had discussions about

24:52um, if my social media facebook group would

24:56uh qualify for third party advertising and in our discussions, we weren't able to conclude whether

25:03It fit any definitions, uh required by law if um, if I would need to do that

25:11So to err on the side of caution I decided not to and my response to erin chatton in the email as uh shown in my

25:20Package there. Um, it was a democratic response. I didn't admit that. Hey, there will be advertising later

25:27It was a um, you know late response that says there may be equal opportunities later on

25:33So that was my play way of denying

25:36any such political advertising

25:39Okay, thank you. I think that's all right. Yeah

25:46thank you

25:47any other questions from the

25:49members of the committee

25:58I wanted to just clarify a point that came up. I believe in the original submission from a man detainer about at some point

26:06Uh, you you stepped out of the campaign or you stopped your campaign

26:11Uh, there was a reference to that and you've replied. I just can't put my hands on it right now

26:15Can you explain what that was all about and and uh, how you address that in in uh,

26:21Your response and we may go back to Amanda Turner later just to clarify why she raised that particular point

26:29Um, so Amanda Turner was concerned that if I had received any donations

26:35Then when I had paused my campaign then I would be required to have refunded any such contributions received

26:43now

26:44there were

26:46During during my campaign

26:48The news media put out a report that about my previous

26:53Google reviews that may have been

26:55Reflected negatively on the lgbt community and then I was getting a lot of negative feedback from that

27:01So at the time I had stepped back from my campaign

27:05um, but it was also passed the deadlines on

27:09Any such withdrawal and I never communicated in any way shape or form with the city clerk's office about

27:16stopping my campaign or my withdrawal

27:19so

27:20It was only at surface value where I had put a pause on the campaign

27:26But it was in unofficial in nature

27:29And as such in addition to not having received any

27:33Contributions there was none to return

27:36to refund

27:38Thank you. All right any other questions from

27:42committee

27:43members there

27:45Thank you. I was just looking at the pages eight and nine that you referenced. Uh, mr. Mack

27:51um, first of all

27:53At what date did you register as a candidate? Sorry. I should be looking at the screen

27:59um, it was the first available day. I believe that was may second

28:022022

28:04a second, okay

28:06and

28:08the uh repetitive

28:10amounts of 113 dollars

28:14Um, what is that reference?

28:17um, so when I run a

28:19Google, uh, I'm sorry when I run a facebook ad campaign there are payment thresholds

28:25So if I have a campaign that says, you know, I'm going to run it $10 a day or $20 a day

28:32It'll keep this through it'll

28:35Keep building up until I reach a certain threshold and then I get billed. So right now that threshold is 113 dollars

28:42So once I hit that threshold, then I get billed each time

28:46but

28:50In that entire in that entire list that may be like, you know, two campaigns

28:55Okay, so that would be the answer then that the earlier amounts back in june of 2022

29:03Uh, the who were smaller amounts and simply beginning the campaign at that point in time

29:08Yes

29:12and

29:13When did you so there there is I'm sorry there is I believe there is a

29:17A dollar threshold as well as a date threshold. So

29:23Whichever whichever comes first

29:26What date did you withdraw even though you technically could not withdraw?

29:32And what date did you read then?

29:35Say it was back in the race

29:38I believe it was september 7th or september 9th when I had um

29:44Announced my pause in the campaign

29:47And then I believe it was the 13th when I had resumed

29:52Of of uh, september, of course. Yes. Yes. So it was I think it was barely a week

30:02Okay, so during during that time, um, our family received a lot of uh, harassing, you know emails

30:10Uh messages on social media

30:12Um, you know some threats and stuff. It was really bad. So that's why we had put a hole on that campaign

30:20Thank you other questions

30:27Please just a follow-up question on the expense here. So from may 2nd to june 15th, there's no

30:35Advertising expense on facebook

30:39I'm correct

30:43so when I first uh registered I didn't

30:46Publicately announce right away. I just kind of kept it quiet into myself and then closer and closer to the election date is when I started ramping up

30:56My advertising campaigns

31:04I just felt that back in may it was just too early to begin any sort of advertising

31:10right

31:12any other questions

31:19Seeing none, uh our procedure if I follow correctly. Mr. Clerk is that

31:24Uh, we could call on Amanda Turner to see if she has further responses to make to what she's heard

31:31In this uh, in this information in the last few minutes

31:35So, uh, please if you have some comments and and candidate mac will also have a chance after you've made your comments

31:42Um, I I don't have too terribly much to add at this point in time

31:47I will clarify I'm award three resident not award two resident

31:50But I understand how that happens because I'm like right on the borderline. That's not significant

31:55um

31:57With regard to to the the lack of contributions possibly being a result of negative press, um

32:03The negative press I believe began in september and the candidate began campaigning in may

32:08So for the majority of the campaign there was no negative press the election was in uh

32:14In october I believe somewhere around the 22nd. So

32:19Just to clarify that there there was certainly a window of time where that would not have been a factor

32:24Um, I don't believe I have anything else to add at this point in time though. Thank you very much

32:30okay

32:32And any questions to uh, Amanda Turner from the committee

32:36Based on those remarks

32:39Okay candidate mac do you have anything further to add?

32:42um the

32:44I got I got her being a ward two resident from the one of the gulf today

32:49Articles they had mentioned that in a previous article and like I can send through that link

32:54afterwards

32:56But that's where I got that information from as well as

33:01Hmm

33:05I guess I guess one other question is if uh

33:08Ms. Amanda Turner may have had any

33:10assistance

33:12In creating this application upward from herself

33:17I'm not persuaded that that's a relevant question for this committee to consider

33:23Um, I I guess my

33:26My question refers to um if it may be a you know a team effort in the

33:35The possibility of this being a vindictive

33:38motive

33:39again, I

33:40My my sense is that that is not part of the mandate of this committee. We're examining

33:46financial matters the motives behind any application

33:50Are not within our purview to review or or necessarily even to consider

33:56In the word I understand I understand that's okay. Thank you

34:04I don't know if this is an appropriate

34:07Strategy to follow I want to put perhaps put the clerk on the spot a little bit back to the question of no donations

34:15Clearly the clerk and his his office reviews the submissions made by candidates

34:21after each election and I'm just wondering whether

34:25The idea that that a candidate reports absolutely no donations at all from outside of her or his family

34:34Is is a a typical pattern in guelph or whether

34:38It's whether this is something that is specific to this particular case

34:43Again, this is a matter

34:45materials that are on the public record and they may not be at your fingertips, but I'd be curious about your your

34:51understanding of of this

34:54situation

34:55Yeah, thank you very much for the question chair williams and and to the committee

34:58What I'll start off is sort of explain a little bit of the process that we have in place when we receive the financial statements from the

35:03candidates

35:04We view our role in in this case and I think the act contemplates our role in this case as really a conduit or a

35:11receptacle to through which those financial statements are received

35:14We're validating information on those forms that is

35:18That we have for lack of a better term. We have an ability to to monitor and regulate so cases in point the date of mr.

35:25max campaign commencing

35:28The date that the campaign period ends

35:30um

35:32We're we're validating the spending limit that is provided through our office. So so

35:37Members of the community might not be aware, but I know that that mr. Mac is

35:41That every candidate has a set spending limit. That's a prescribed formula in the legislation

35:44So we're validating those pieces of information

35:47And really we're we're supporting the the signing of the declaration on that form

35:52Which is to say that the candidate declares that to the best of their knowledge and belief that those financial statements and the attached

35:58Supporting schedules are true and correct. So we're supporting that process

36:03As it relates to the specifics around around, you know in the financial statement on page two

36:08The income section again, we're deferring back to that declaration that they're declaring

36:12It's true and correct to your question chair williams about whether or not it's common

36:17to

36:18pardon me to not receive

36:20donations outside

36:22of a candidate or their spouse

36:24Uh, guelph is a growing community. So at times we see we see candidacy for office that is

36:31Simply a self-funded which is to say by the candidate and or their spouse and at times we see

36:37contributions from a wide range of eligible contributors and so

36:41It's difficult for me to pinpoint specifically, but we do have instances of both

36:44I would say and have had experiences with both types of campaigns

36:49In past election cycles

36:51Thank you. I'm could I I'm sorry. Could I also add that on page 10 of my file?

36:57Um, I did list at least 14

37:00self-funded candidates in this campaign as well

37:03the only candidates I didn't uh

37:06actively list were uh school board trustees

37:11So my self-funded campaign is absolutely not unique in the 2022 election

37:17There were 14 others who also did not list

37:20donations received

37:22Hey, thank you

37:24helpful for the committee to be reminded of that part of the document

37:28Hey, mr. Clerk are there other

37:33Do we need to do another round of questions? I don't believe we have uh

37:38Any further questions from the committee to either the applicant or the candidate?

37:49So I'll go back to my script. Yeah, no in mr. Chair. If there's no other questions

37:53Or information that either the candidate or the applicant wishes to provide

37:57Now is an opportunity to floor to turn the floor over to the committee to deliberate as you see fit

38:03There is the ability under section 88.335.1 of the mea

38:08That the that the meeting shall be open to the public

38:10But you do have the ability to to move and resolve to go into a closed meeting if you'd like

38:16Our default is always to provide as much of the discussion deliberation and open

38:20But again, the committee has the right and the ability to move into closed

38:24Especially if you're nearing perhaps the the point in time, mr. Chair where you might want to

38:30Contemplate the written reasons for your decision or whatever decision you might come to

38:35Okay

38:37So part of that then would be whether the members of the committee would prefer to

38:44Do things in in this forum or perhaps to move into closed session perhaps

38:51Again, if i'm following the script here are are there preliminary comments that any members

38:56Of the committee wish to make at this point to help us make that determination

39:02And i'm going to start with the tzing zing too if you wouldn't mind please do you have any general comments you want to make about

39:09About the case in front of us

39:13No, okay

39:15Was it yeah, no, no, but I would like to uh move into a closed

39:20Okay, thank you members here

39:24And member Fletcher and he nothing additional

39:28Okay, and and I I am inclined to follow that direction. I think

39:33Just for the sake of all of those who are watching and listening these are never very straightforward cases and there are lots of

39:41ifs ands and buts and and

39:43exceptions and this that and the other that the legislation

39:47Sometimes treats and sometimes doesn't and I think

39:50Given that this is a relatively new process

39:53In ontario that we need to be sure that we're acting

39:57appropriately and and dealing with

39:59information and

40:00way that is fair to both the applicant and the candidate that that some of that requires

40:06I think a little bit of confidentiality for lack of a better word to get our own feet

40:12under us in terms of how we want to handle this and how we want to bring back a decision

40:18that is fair to all parties. So I think our sense would be that Mr. Clerk that we would

40:26be anxious to have a chance to do that in camera.

40:30Certainly Mr. Chair, I will mention just publicly for the for the benefit of those viewing online

40:35and the candidate and the applicant and obviously committee members there will need to be a motion

40:39to that effect but really effectively it's moving into a closed session that is pursuant

40:43to section 239 2G of the municipal act which is in relation to a matter in respect of which

40:49this this committee may hold a closed meeting under another act and that act is the municipal

40:54elections act being section 88.33 sub 5.1. I'll turn it over to you to seek a move on

41:01her second and move into close and if I may just before we move for the benefit of those

41:05are attending online especially candidate Mack and member Fletcher for member Fletcher

41:09she will have a link to follow to move into close so member Fletcher you can leave this

41:14meeting and join that closed session to you candidate Mack you'll see a screen splash

41:20up that you may have seen if you've watched some council meetings that will demonstrate

41:23and show that this committee has moved into a closed session the same it holds true for

41:27members of the community they're watching online so we will resolve back into an open

41:31session following the discussions of the committee they may wish to render a decision at that

41:37point or they may reserve time to do that further but I just wanted to make sure everyone's

41:42aware of sort of what's coming next for the benefit of those in attendance and with that

41:46very wins I'll turn it back to you. Thank you. Member Fletcher did you have a comment

41:50to make about the motion or did you want to move it because I'm willing to move the

41:54motion please. Okay I have one other comment first if you don't mind if we can slightly

41:59irregular members there has a point that he would like to make before we take the motion.

42:05Yeah it was simply to emphasize the point but this is for public purposes that we are

42:13compelled to give a written report and it's important that that be in the the order and

42:19the form that is acceptable to the legislation. Thank you good so the the motion basically

42:29is to move to closed session pursuant to section 239 2g of the municipal act for a matter which

42:38the which falls under the qualification for a closed meeting not reading it directly but close

42:47enough I think we know what we're after. Member Fletcher has has moved that the committee hold

42:52a closed meeting pursuant to the act to discuss this matter do I have a seconder for that motion

42:59Rosita would second that motion and then I'll call the question all those in favor of the motion

43:06so that's carried so the committee will now move into closed session and we will do that

43:11in a separate room and the information that the clerk provided will help any members of the public

43:17return to this meeting when we've had our chance to reach a decision about the next step thank you

1:39:33Just for everyone in attendance, we're just waiting on one member of the compliance audit committee to rejoin virtually and then we'll begin once member Fletcher joins.

1:39:42I'd like to reconvene the committee meeting in open session.

1:40:03The compliance audit committee has risen from closed session where we deliberated.

1:40:08In relation to section 88.337 and 8.

1:40:13Of the municipal elections act and the committee renders its decision.

1:40:18As follows that the request for compliance audit review of time acts 2022 election financial statement be rejected.

1:40:29The committee has determined that we have not been presented with reasonable grounds.

1:40:35To request an audit.

1:40:38We have then a motion to that effect.

1:40:42I believe on the screen.

1:40:46Was on the screen.

1:40:48But do I have a mover for that motion?

1:40:56Members there and a seconder. Thank you.

1:40:59And any vote on that?

1:41:02And we've.

1:41:04Okay, we'll have the vote on that motion.

1:41:06All those in favor.

1:41:09Any opposed. So that motion is carried.

1:41:12I will advise that we have an obligation under section 88.338 of the municipal elections act.

1:41:20Provide brief written reasons for our decision.

1:41:24Those written reasons for our decision will be provided.

1:41:28As part of the publication of the minutes of this meeting.

1:41:32Which will occur on July 25th.

1:41:352023.

1:41:38Thank you for your participation. Are there any comments?

1:41:42Or observations from members of the committee with that, I'll look for a mover and a second year for adjournment.

1:41:51Like member Fletcher.

1:41:52Members see.

1:41:53I move adjournment.

1:41:55Thank you.

1:41:56And second it. So.

1:41:57All those in favor.

1:42:00Motion is carried. Thank you everyone.

1:42:05Thank you so much.