Transportation Advisory Committee

0:02and our privilege to live and work in wealth

0:05and to be built in our rich indigenous history.

0:08Their gifts even reflect the fondness responsibility

0:12to care for the plan.

0:13The people who live here today and the generation to come.

0:17If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation,

0:20we should take pause and make those decisions

0:22with intention and gratitude.

0:25This place we call Welfast served as traditional lands

0:28and a place of refuge for many peoples over time.

0:31But most specifically the Adir-Wandak

0:36and the Ode-No-Shin.

0:40This land is held as true lands and territory

0:43with the Mississaugas of the First Credit Nation.

0:46Glow flies directly adjacent to the Hale-Man tract

0:49and is part of the longest established

0:50tradition hunting ground of the six nations

0:53of the Grand River.

0:54Many First Nations and UNMT people have come across

0:58Turtle Island and called Welf Home today.

1:03There was no disclosure of free interest

1:08or general community.

1:13The next item is approval of minutes.

1:18Would anyone like to move the minutes from the last meeting?

1:23I'll make that motion.

1:31All in favor?

1:34Anyone against?

1:35Nope.

1:45Now we can go for the committee items.

1:51I will.

1:58Not at all.

2:16I'm sorry.

2:18Maybe we can...

2:19I cannot hear you guys very clearly.

2:22Sorry, Trayor.

2:23Can you say again?

2:24I'm sorry.

2:25We're just now working on the committee items.

2:29I just missed you.

2:30I'm sorry.

2:31Yeah, because the minutes got approved

2:33and now just committee items.

2:35Yeah, thank you.

2:37So, Kate, do you want me to share your PowerPoint

2:41or do you want to do it yourself?

2:44If you have it, yes, please.

2:46If you're all right, I can open it up.

2:49Yeah, I can do this for you.

2:50No worries.

2:51Do you guys see the PowerPoint?

2:54Yes.

2:55Yeah, okay.

2:55Yeah, okay.

2:58Great.

2:59Okay, thanks everybody.

3:01So, good afternoon, committee members.

3:04Next, I'm having a team meeting today.

3:05My name is Kate Berry.

3:06I'm a Project Manager in the Translative Planning Team.

3:09And joining today, I have two staff from our consultant,

3:12Arcadis.

3:14Brendan, Luglano, and Konstantinovana,

3:17who is working with me.

3:19And we're going to the TV and the Translative Engineering.

3:23Wayne's been listening in and charging the discussion.

3:28We're really excited to introduce them

3:30and move you forward to the project, the world,

3:32and get some initial feedback from this.

3:35By the way, we're going to spend about 10 minutes

3:38to present an overview of the project.

3:42And then we have lots of time for questions and discussion.

3:45That's going to be,

3:48I can, I'll keep talking on this slide actually, Mene.

3:51So, just to get started, the city's 2022

3:55has been a matter plan.

3:56It's really the basis for this,

3:58for this project,

3:59the Stafford's Division of Birds and Things

4:01and Resilient Transportation System

4:04involved for the next 30 years.

4:06And in that timeframe, world's population

4:08is thought that's going to be involved by around 40%,

4:11quite significantly.

4:13That's part of managing that growth.

4:15The master plan identifies the need to expand

4:18world's transportation demand management program,

4:21the process that's developed an action plan,

4:24and that's going to guide the program in the future.

4:27The overall goal of the action plan

4:30is to reduce traffic congestion at any time,

4:33and to shift more trips to sustainable options,

4:37like transit walking and cycling.

4:40We can go to the next slide.

4:43He'll give him an apprentice.

4:46He's going to check in with him.

4:48He may only have five minutes left.

4:49Yeah, no, no, no.

4:51I said, like, start another area, that'd be great.

4:55So transportation demand management,

4:57I was often referred to by the acronym TDM.

5:01You may have come across this term,

5:02but it's used to describe a whole suite of initiatives

5:06that are aimed at reducing traffic volumes,

5:08that's the demand, on the road network,

5:11and particularly at commute and peak hours.

5:14Oh, wait, did we just lost the slides, sorry?

5:18Yeah, I think it's sharing your full desktop or screen.

5:24Sorry, let me just drop it.

5:26So, particularly at commute and peak hours,

5:28and it's by targeting driver behavior

5:31and mode choice, like travel mode choice.

5:34The main focus is on influencing how,

5:37when, and where people travel.

5:40Transportation demand management

5:41seeks to make better use of existing

5:43transportation infrastructure, than each other leads.

5:47So it can be a really effective way to maximize return

5:50on investment of your existing transportation services

5:54and infrastructure.

5:56So residents and visitors, a good TDM program,

6:00will improve traffic congestion in the community,

6:02and it will give them more options for daily trips.

6:06And for the municipality, a good TDM program

6:08will increase the diversity and the efficiency

6:11and the economic performance of the transportation services

6:15the municipality provides.

6:18I'll hand over to Brendan to talk about the next slide.

6:24Yeah, okay, thanks Kate.

6:26So a TDM program can include many different types

6:30of initiatives or measures.

6:33They are typically thought of as a spectrum

6:35that you can see here, ranging from various pull measures

6:38to various push measures.

6:39So pull measures encompass those that entice people

6:44towards desired travel behaviors,

6:46such as transit service improvements,

6:48or car share facilities.

6:50Push measures on the other hand,

6:52are those that force people towards

6:54the desired travel behaviors,

6:55such as congestion zone charging,

6:57or parking pricing even.

7:00A key part of our work for this project specifically

7:03is to determine what measures are appropriate

7:05for Guelph and its action plan.

7:10Next slide please.

7:14All right, and I was gonna give you an overview

7:16of the timeline for this project.

7:19And so there's five main components of work.

7:22Starting earlier this year, in the spring,

7:24we completed initial phase of background review work.

7:29And we're now undertaking public engagement

7:32to gather feedback from the community.

7:34So Brendan is gonna provide a bit of an overview

7:36of that work in a moment.

7:39And if you're interested to dive deeper into this project,

7:42there are more materials available

7:44on the city's Have You Say page.

7:47And we can put that link for that in the chat too,

7:50or in the minutes.

7:52It's in the slides there too.

7:55But to develop a strong action plan,

7:57it's important for us to understand the habits

7:59and attitudes about travel and transportation in Guelph.

8:03So that's gonna help us select,

8:05from those many different types of measures,

8:06it's gonna help us sort of like the ones

8:08that are appropriate for Guelph

8:10and that are most likely to be effective

8:12in changing travel behavior.

8:14So later this year in the fall,

8:16we're gonna be running what we call an Attitude Survey

8:20that will reach more than 2000 households in Guelph.

8:24Invitations for the survey will be sent out

8:27primarily by mail,

8:28but we will also be doing some phone outreach.

8:30So it's kind of called mail to online or phone to online.

8:34The survey will be online,

8:36but it's the outreach is through mail and cell phone.

8:40Survey methodology is being designed

8:42to achieve statistically significant results

8:45that we can use to help design the action plan,

8:49but also that will form a baseline

8:52to repeat the survey in the future.

8:53So we can really measure the impact and the success.

8:57So the action plan when it's implemented

8:59and see how travel behaviors and attitudes change.

9:04So with part of the current public engagement work,

9:08there is an online survey available on the Have Your Say page.

9:12The questions online on Have Your Say

9:16mirror what we are gonna be asking

9:17in the Attitude Survey in the fall.

9:21So the one on Have Your Say

9:22is kind of somewhat of a preview of the formal survey.

9:26And the reason for doing this is

9:28that not all residents are gonna receive

9:31the Attitude Survey will be distributing it

9:34to around 25,000 households.

9:39So not everyone would receive that.

9:40So for transparency, we wanted to make it available online now

9:45so people can see what kind of things we're asking

9:48and have the opportunity to respond if they wish.

9:51We'll be incorporating the results

9:53of the Have Your Say survey

9:57into the overall results of the public engagement

9:59and using them to design the action plan.

10:02So everything that we hear on the Have Your Say page

10:05will contribute to the project design.

10:09And the survey on Have Your Say is open

10:10until the end of July.

10:12So we certainly encourage committee members

10:14to take a look and complete the survey.

10:19So transportation, demand management,

10:21heavily uses communication and marketing techniques

10:25to really inform and raise awareness amongst a community

10:32about their travel options

10:34and the benefits of different options.

10:38Later in the fall, we're hosting some focused groups

10:41and we'll be using those to explore

10:44what types of communication,

10:46what messaging and tactics are most likely to resonate

10:50with people in Guelph.

10:53And also in the fall, we will be working to create

10:56an evaluation tool that can be used by developers

11:00as a checklist.

11:01So the idea is that it will become integrated

11:03into the municipal process

11:06for reviewing development applications.

11:09And the idea is to encourage developers to incorporate

11:12more transportation, demand management measures

11:16built into their future developments,

11:19and then start to work right from the design stage.

11:23And then finally, by the end of this year,

11:24we would be bringing all of the work together

11:26in a final report with a recommended action plan.

11:31And we'd like to return to this committee

11:33sometime around then when we have that drafted

11:36to present it to you and seek your endorsement.

11:40And so we'd expect that will happen either end of this year

11:43or early in 2026 timeline that we're looking at.

11:49Moving to the next slide.

11:52And over to Brendan.

11:53Yeah, so as Kate mentioned,

11:56we've already started this work of

11:58by conducting a background review

12:00of comparator municipalities.

12:03Included within that review was looking at

12:06these other municipalities policies

12:09and interviewing with their staff.

12:11So the purpose of all of this was to get an idea

12:13of what is working and what some of the lessons learned are

12:17in these comparator municipalities.

12:21From this review, a few things became really clear.

12:24First off is having a strong policy framework

12:27is really key to providing the necessary tools

12:31and guidance to make an effective TDM plan.

12:36Second, there was generally a lack of metrics

12:40measuring performance among comparator municipalities.

12:43And lastly, many of the TDM measures we looked at

12:48didn't actually consider equity within their TDM plan,

12:51which was surprising for us at least.

12:55And finally, presenting this to committee

12:58is an important part of starting the awareness

13:01for this project and building support

13:04for a strong action plan.

13:07So next slide, please.

13:13So after this background review,

13:15we are, it takes us to where we currently are

13:17in the engagement phase,

13:19where we have completed two pop-up events so far,

13:22and now end of event to celebrate the launch of bike month.

13:27And another, we had a booth

13:30at the recent multicultural festival.

13:34I think the mayor, no, the mayor did come by even.

13:37So that was fun.

13:38As a part of this engagement, we have asked people,

13:41what would convince you to leave your car at home?

13:43Or why would you choose to,

13:46what would get you to choose a different mode?

13:48And we heard some really interesting feedback,

13:51including some requests to reduce slash

13:54eliminate parking minimums,

13:56improve transit wayfinding,

13:59provide more info on how to pay for transit,

14:03and even requests to move bust off locations

14:06so that they are closer to major places of an employment.

14:10So public engagement is ongoing,

14:14and we are keen to hear any recommendations

14:17that committee has about any groups or organizations

14:20that could be valuable for us to engage.

14:23As we mentioned, we have some focus groups

14:25that we are looking to do.

14:26So if you have any thoughts on areas that we should reach out,

14:30we'd love to hear from you.

14:33And I'll give it to Kate to bring us home.

14:38Thanks, Brendan.

14:39Yes, we just have one last slide.

14:40And we'd suggested like a couple of motions for the committee.

14:46The first was simply to receive this presentation.

14:50And the second would be

14:52in terms of providing recommendations for engagement,

14:54as Brendan just mentioned.

14:56Obviously, those are just our suggestions,

14:58so you can obviously make your own motions

15:02and amend those once.

15:05That concludes our very brief presentation.

15:07And we look forward to discussing it more with you.

15:11Thank you very much.

15:18Let's, I will take the first recommendation

15:23and I will put it to a vote for accepting the presentation,

15:29the Transportation Advisory Committee

15:32to receive the staff presentation

15:34with a project entitled Moving You Forward,

15:36Transportation Demand Action Management Action Plan.

15:41All in favor, all those.

15:49Okay, we have received the presentation.

15:54And the next recommendation is

15:59for the TAC members to provide recommendations

16:03regarding any individual groups, organizations,

16:06or organizations to engage.

16:09So do you want to open for discussion for that?

16:13Certainly, and then obviously,

16:15we're also open to other questions in discussion too.

16:17Okay.

16:19And, you know, if there was something that came up

16:20that you wanted to include as a recommendation,

16:23you could add more motions as well.

16:25But for us, we were really interested in your input on.

16:29Any suggestions for engagements

16:30that we don't miss talking to the right people?

16:32Okay.

16:33So we could do that as a starting point,

16:35but please, if you have other questions or things too.

16:38I'm just going to recommend a group.

16:41And that's Free Hub at the Tool Library.

16:45And I can give you, if you remind me,

16:48I can give you a contact for that.

16:51Thank you.

16:52Yeah, I think my colleague, Alessia,

16:57and it was Hailey, do have a contact for that.

17:00Oh, okay, good.

17:01Yeah, thank you.

17:07You're probably already going through

17:09the neighborhood groups.

17:11We do have a list there, yeah.

17:14And places like Shelldale.

17:23It's currently on the list.

17:26We have, I mean, we have a list that's got,

17:31I think it's a bit more generic,

17:34but in terms of, you know, like the school boards,

17:36obviously, the Conestoga College,

17:39University of Boil, for speaking big educational institutions.

17:44We have, a big one for us is like any big employers.

17:51You know, because we're really thinking about

17:53peak commuter times of day.

17:55So thinking about people's journey to work is important.

17:58And so we'd like to connect with big ones.

18:01And, yeah, so we think like,

18:05let them all be one example.

18:09Chair, Darren online, wave his hand.

18:13Oh, hi.

18:14Yep.

18:18Oh, thanks, Winnie.

18:19Can everyone hear me?

18:21Yeah, so.

18:22Thank you.

18:23Sorry, my internet is a little spotty where I am,

18:28so I'm gonna leave my camera off.

18:31So I have a question about the plan generally,

18:36and then I'll move on to organizations

18:39I think we should engage,

18:40but I may have missed this in the presentation,

18:43but can staff or some of the team here

18:49give an indication of what the objective

18:53of the the TVM strategy is here?

18:55Like is this to guide a more comprehensive approach

18:59that the municipality is going to take

19:01on those per-year pull factors,

19:03or is it to provide guidance to developers?

19:07As at one point I saw we were putting together a framework

19:10or a toolkit for developers.

19:13I think that I guess that's my question.

19:16I'm trying to get an understanding of how,

19:19like who is going to implement

19:22this transportation demand management strategy?

19:26Like does it give us a more comprehensive view

19:28of what the municipality is going to do?

19:30Like the mixture of push and pull factors we're going to use,

19:34or is it simply to guide major employers or developers,

19:39or is it all of that?

19:42It will consider all of those things.

19:44It's certainly the action plan would be a city-led initiative

19:48to implement, so it's a recommendation

19:50from the Transportation Master Plan

19:53that we want to expand.

19:55We do have an existing transportation demand management

19:58program, but this would be really about

20:00significantly expanding it,

20:02by looking at all those range of measures

20:04and deciding which ones make the most sense

20:06for Guelph to include.

20:08So it could be a mix of push measures,

20:10pull measures, and education measures too,

20:14to kind of give us a really good package

20:16that we think will achieve the goals of,

20:19reducing traffic congestion

20:21and shifting more trips to sustainable modes.

20:25So certainly some of the measures might include

20:27ones that are targeted at employers

20:30and what supports and programs the city might provide

20:34to help employers, help their employees

20:37to change their travel behaviors.

20:40And in terms of the development, yeah,

20:43I think we know that one of the measures we want

20:45is to have an evaluation tool

20:48for the development review process.

20:51So that would still be a tool that the city

20:53is kind of rolling out and implementing by making it,

20:57it wouldn't be a mandatory tool.

20:59We expect it would be optional,

21:02but we want to build an incentive

21:04so that developers take interest

21:07in wanting to implement TDM.

21:10So yeah, the city's role is to try and obviously

21:13shift the behavior of the developers too,

21:16as well as residents and employers.

21:20I hope that, does that answer your question, Darren?

21:23I think it does.

21:25That's helpful.

21:27Because in my mind, I'm also trying to get the sequence

21:31of strategies here.

21:32So this follows the transportation strategy

21:36that the city's been doing for the last few years.

21:40This perhaps precedes the...

21:54We lost Darren.

21:55We still there, Darren?

21:56I am, sorry.

21:59Just missed the end of your comments.

22:02Can you hear me now?

22:04I think so.

22:06But say some more.

22:07I think we're losing.

22:13Can you hear me?

22:15Better now, yeah.

22:21Chromatic pause.

22:22Yeah.

22:24You mute it himself.

22:25Oh, you do?

22:30Darren, I think you're muted at the moment.

22:32No, I'm not.

22:34It's just that's...

22:35Okay.

22:37Okay.

22:39Can I throw in a comment about...

22:41Because we're still talking about

22:43what groups you'd engage with.

22:45Suddenly, yeah, I'm flexing notes on it.

22:46And you mentioned the school boards.

22:49And I think the feedback you'll get on an institutional level

22:52is going to be far different than what you look at

22:55on a user level.

22:59I was going to say go to the individual schools now.

23:02To the teachers, parent groups within schools,

23:04because that was something without it,

23:06because I was dealing with the school board

23:08on a different issue, and they are completely...

23:12Disconnected.

23:13It would be the easiest way to put it.

23:15But the school, like the principal cares about the safety

23:18of the students, because there's two schools

23:20across each other, and you can see them wearing the vest,

23:23directing traffic, and none of their dryways.

23:26So they care about the safety of the students,

23:28but the school board could care less.

23:30Well, what actually?

23:32Like the higher ups.

23:34So if you actually engage, if you look around,

23:36if you maybe call BioLessie where they have the most

23:40traffic fractions, maybe a parking, or even police school,

23:43most of the time, for accidents,

23:45and you go to those schools where higher priorities

23:47get more feedback from them, or just call, save the principals,

23:51or willing to meet, because some will be,

23:53because there is a lot of issues with some schools.

23:56Yeah.

23:58But yeah, they should stay the same.

24:00I took my daughter to school on World Transit,

24:04and it's very time-consuming depending on where the school is.

24:08But I had two really great experiences,

24:10and the one was I complained to the bus driver every day

24:13about the location of the bus stop.

24:15He got it changed.

24:17It was like, oh no.

24:20And the other one was there was a walkway,

24:22and the bus, after a couple of weeks,

24:25he realized we'd come bolting out of there,

24:28trying not to miss him by seconds,

24:31and he would stop and wait for us.

24:34And it was very endearing, right?

24:38So I think talking to the people at the schools

24:42who are using World Transit in lieu of the school buses.

24:49I think we have a bit...

24:52So I've done a couple of school runs myself with the bus,

24:55brought, eat back, I find, bikes, everything.

25:02I have kids that come in who are very excited about the bus.

25:05They love buses.

25:06Oh, my son.

25:07Kids can't get enough of them.

25:08Yeah, they want to see all about them.

25:09They want to ride them.

25:10They were the only ones that were picking up

25:12the Kids Ride Free program that I had in my bus.

25:15No parent was.

25:16If you aren't going to target the people who are going to ride

25:19with the under-12 year old to ride free,

25:21the under-12 year olds are never going to ride.

25:24So I think thinking of the people that have agency

25:29to influence younger people might be important

25:32in some of the groups that you're thinking of.

25:36Even like for us, World Transit specifically,

25:39we have the Corporate Pass Program.

25:41We cover 10%.

25:42The employer covers 10% for 20% discount for groups.

25:46I think some type of corporate discussion,

25:50as you mentioned, like bigger businesses,

25:52I think it's worth kind of talking about all those options for sure.

25:56But maybe think on like, maybe not even as specific

26:00as you can go to the board and they can send something home

26:03to parents.

26:04Maybe do some thinking on like, how can you creatively get it?

26:07Maybe PTA is the way that you go.

26:10PTA is direct parents who are volunteering in the school

26:14to influence change in their school.

26:16Maybe that's an avenue.

26:18There's some thoughts, at least for me, my two cents.

26:21Because you get that email from Mike Glaser.

26:24Nobody reads that.

26:26But if you get an email from your PTA, they're more likely to read it.

26:29What you're saying is exactly what happens.

26:32I would also recommend adding poverty tax.

26:35Task force.

26:36Yeah.

26:38I think for that evaluation tool for developers,

26:50especially since it's optional and especially any incentive is more modest

26:54looking at nonprofit and cooperative housing actors in Guelph.

26:59Yeah.

27:00Wouldn't they probably be pretty receptive?

27:02I'm on the board of directors for the Guelph Campus Co-op.

27:06We have a car share spot in one of our properties.

27:11And we had one at another that kind of fell through.

27:14I think we lost our local car co-op in the larger car share program.

27:18And we are very early stages of looking at redeveloping one of our properties.

27:22And that might be 60-bot units.

27:24So that would be a good opportunity to know how to develop in a way that

27:29missions with whatever that evaluation tool looks like when it's open about.

27:34Yeah.

27:35Yeah.

27:36And here we are.

27:38It also occurs to me you're going to encounter a lot of people who are using alternative transit modes

27:48if you go to the sources.

27:50Like if you go to bike shops and that peddling.

27:53And if you put sign and jump on the actual buses.

27:58Yeah.

27:59I guess one aspect is that we, you know, the dominant mode share in golf is car.

28:06And we're looking to reduce that congestion and increase sustainable modes.

28:11Whether you have any thoughts around engaging the car drivers, you know, and connecting with them.

28:17Because those are the people that we want to, in a way we want to understand the most and be able to connect with and influence.

28:26Personally, I would say.

28:28Car driver and bus rider and biker.

28:31I think the only option there to convince someone who's already tried.

28:36You got to remember they're comfortable.

28:38They have, it is make traffic so difficult that they can't.

28:42And unfortunately that's, that's what it was.

28:46You take the four lanes, you put it down the three with the middle lane turning.

28:49You got bike lanes on both sides.

28:51So there's a convenience for everybody.

28:54Or if you're going to have four lanes, you keep one as a bus and emergency lane and one for traffic.

29:00It's talking to my wife and I'm work for a landmark company.

29:05They're not giving up the convenience of a car.

29:07They go to Tim Horton's on break.

29:09They go to restaurants on lunch.

29:11You have to give them something so that the only option for those people are like, wait traffic or use public transport.

29:24And as far as again, trying to convince people to give up that easiness of the car.

29:32I think you have to start with the kids in a public school.

29:36You take away parking within like five square blocks.

29:40They have to walk.

29:42Right.

29:43And then you start offering free rides for kids and their parents certain times of the year.

29:48So that they can engage.

29:51So if you don't start them early enough, I know I was 16.

29:55I was able to get my driver's license and buy a car at the same same day.

30:00And a lot of people have that word.

30:03You go and it's it's convenient.

30:05You got to get them out of that before they get into that convenience.

30:10So I think if we focus more on the groups and public schools, primary schools, I guess.

30:18But once they get university and are driving, once they hit employment, they're driving very rarely are they going to give up that convenience?

30:27I find anyway, I grew up with the TTC.

30:30So I don't mind taking a bus.

30:34I think so I love what you're saying because I feel like for someone who grew up with the TTC, you have a different experience where transit and transportation multimodal types like biking is competitive with the car.

30:48You have frequency, you have coverage, you have all those pieces that allow you to go.

30:53I can get there faster by taking a streetcar connecting to a subway than if I drove in my own car.

31:00Whereas in wealth, what you're saying is we are not competitive.

31:04And the transportation master plan shows we are 2.5 to 2.7 times longer to take a bus trip than to take a car trip.

31:12And so TDM is how do we get people to make that shift out of their regular car?

31:18Part of that comes with you have to invest in biking and transit and that will naturally bring people more into it.

31:26I think this is a toughie though because your mode share in your car.

31:29So if you were to go engage with people who are in their car, where are the highest places that people are driving in wealth all the time?

31:36Like I still live up in Mississauga.

31:38Everybody drives everywhere because it's a suburbia sprawl.

31:41If you go to Heartland for shopping, you're driving into seven different quadrants of the shopping areas.

31:47So I think we have a lens on how we need to build the city moving forward and we have a lens on how we use the city now.

31:57What groups are we going to engage that we can get them to talk to people to be like, yes, try something else today?

32:06What does that look like?

32:07Here's one suggestion. Why not?

32:09They don't know how to target this group of the folks who use the parking garage.

32:15Back then I forget what it's called.

32:17Parking? Yes.

32:19I've seen anecdotally there are several groups of people that the fun is people who work around here.

32:25There's another group who take the co-train into maybe Toronto or somewhere else.

32:32I'm the kind of person who will randomly chat to people at the train station.

32:37And anecdotally what I've heard from a lot of folks is one driving is a hassle.

32:42For a lot of folks driving is a hassle, enough of a hassle that they would rather park here and then find another means of getting out.

32:50That's the bus, the train, whatever people look at it that way.

32:55The piece I don't know is how do you find that group?

33:05I think it's a good idea to go to a public course.

33:08Driving culture is very aggressive and it's not fun to be a motorist.

33:11It's not fun to be a pedestrian either.

33:14I don't cycle much but I can't imagine it is very fun to be a cyclist in the city.

33:18I was back home in Nova Scotia for the last week and I was everywhere between the peninsula,

33:22Pelletbacks to the very rural Nova Scotia.

33:25And the driving culture was slightly being there and not thinking too highly of it.

33:30I didn't feel like I was going to get hit by a car every time I left my brother's place.

33:35And that was between rural, suburban and urban core.

33:40I don't know if this is a larger systems issue or something.

33:45Or something that maybe goes beyond the scope of these guiding documents and the link.

33:52That's basically the answer to me saying I feel like it's difficult to gather that data.

33:59Yeah and it's really trying to understand the existing feel and attitudes around travel

34:06to be able to come up with the best ways to find a candidate.

34:11So can I ask a clarifying question for my sake maybe for Emily Sake?

34:16What does engaging with these groups look like to you?

34:20Is it having a contact, sending an email?

34:23Is it doing a pop-up event and talking?

34:26What does it look like to you? Is it a little bit of everything?

34:29That might help with some spurring of...

34:32Yeah, I mean, also the main things that we have planned is focus groups.

34:37So we could be inviting different individuals to be part of the focus groups

34:42so that we get a good representation of different perspectives.

34:46And the other would be, I think we have interest in, particularly for those big employers,

34:51that we could schedule some interviews with a few of them to really get that more logistical perspective on

34:59do most of their employees live within the city or are they coming from outside?

35:03What shifts do they do? Do they have a sense of how their employees travel to work?

35:10And what might they be...

35:12Are they open as an employer to incentivizing changes or not?

35:16That's the kind of thing we want to explore.

35:20Personally, as long as they show up, they don't care where they live or how they get there,

35:24as long as they get there.

35:27But I mean, going back to the hassle part, instead of driving in the Toronto,

35:33because it's a hassle with the traffic because of everything else, they're forced to take...

35:37They may not like taking the train to Toronto, but they're forced to stay away from the hassle.

35:43You create that much hassle on the roads where the other options seem so much better than

35:52that's what they're going to do eventually.

35:55And just like if you start beyond, like I was in Copenhagen in December,

36:00they actually have a centre where they learn to ride bikes with all the traffic signs and everything else,

36:07where the families take them at an early age so that that's part of the culture.

36:12We start, you know, parents ride free with their students.

36:16It may not be economical, but you do pilot projects at Christmas time if we have the market here.

36:24The schools promote, come take the bus free with your kids, have a cup of hot chocolate.

36:31You might get more, but it's creating the hassle for the people that are already in the cars

36:36and creating an alternative for those who aren't.

36:40I think it's the way it's...

36:43Right now, for everyone's sake, we currently have, like transit, kids under 12 ride free.

36:51Kids 13 to 17 ride free after 5 p.m. and on weekends and stat holidays.

36:58In the summer, they ride free all summer.

37:01And we have seniors who ride free on Thursdays.

37:05So we have incentives.

37:08And the uptick in the program is good. I can't speak to the data for it.

37:13We have a report that's going to go out in September on the status of it and how the pilot went,

37:20because it was a year pilot.

37:22But it is there.

37:24And I think some people don't even know it's there, right?

37:27And tapping into that. So that's another piece, right?

37:30But it's interesting, like the thought of opening it up, you provide access.

37:36I feel like if I'm mirroring you right, with providing access comes sometimes with free perks

37:42of incentivizing people to get out of their car and try something different.

37:46Yeah, you have kids riding free, but it's the parents that you want to go with the kids.

37:51So if you put the parents with the kids free, they may choose that.

37:59Yeah.

38:00For the child to ride free, does the parent have to have a registered Miley or my fare card?

38:05Anyone under five does not need it on their way.

38:08Anyone five and up, you would get them a card, but you don't have to load money on.

38:12You just tap so that we know you have a child that's five to twelve.

38:16Yeah.

38:17So I want to take the bus.

38:20I drive, I have two kids, six and four.

38:23I want to take the bus. I live right on Waterloo downtown.

38:26But I can't take their wagon onto the bus.

38:29It folds because he's going to stop walking and I don't want to carry him.

38:33And that's a barrier for me that I cannot take because they can't use a stroller.

38:37They're too big.

38:38Right.

38:39So I need to take the wagon, but I can't take the wagon onto the bus.

38:41It's for me to walk around downtown and have to carry him.

38:43It's not feasible.

38:44Right.

38:45So then I'm stuck not taking the bus.

38:46Then I just need to drive downtown because I can take my wagon into the car.

38:50Right.

38:51So that stops me from taking the bus.

38:53Yeah, I know I hear you.

38:54I don't know if you fold it.

38:55You might be able to take it, but maybe we chat after.

38:57Because I think he wants to focus on who we can touch base with in terms of groups.

39:02Like Boris, there's reasons.

39:04Like I think about it and then I think I don't want to get stuck there on the bus stop.

39:07And he's excited to get on the bus and I'm like, oh, sorry, you can't go on.

39:10I'm like, for sure.

39:11Yeah, let's chat after.

39:12Yeah, let's chat after.

39:13But I'm not able to help you a little more.

39:17Yeah.

39:18Any other groups people would suggest?

39:22What about like thinking outside the box here?

39:25Where does everyone drive?

39:26Smart centers, Stone Road Mall?

39:28Like maybe some of those players, like you're talking to how are you getting to our facilities?

39:35Maybe trying to influence their marketing or targeting or, and I'm just thinking like,

39:40where are our car commuters going?

39:43Not only just for gas stations.

39:45I love it.

39:46We've never been there.

39:47Stop paying for gas by bus fast.

39:49Take the bike.

39:51Gas station advertising.

39:53Yeah.

39:54Three stores.

39:58I use a car share program exclusively for errands that are able to be entertained while

40:04transit board.

40:05And that's like a tough one for me because I cannot take 10 groceries to kids on like

40:10a bike and like the bus, like you said, it would be like a knot.

40:14Yeah.

40:15Car share means are great for errands like that.

40:18Can I ask for your car shares that you use?

40:21How, how well used do you feel it is?

40:23Like do you have a sense of love people?

40:25Is it competitive to get used to the vehicle?

40:28I think they have a pretty, I mean, I love the convenience of having more vehicles available.

40:34Sometimes peak periods, especially weekends and summers, it can be a little difficult.

40:38Otherwise there's some reasonability, but you have to be able to be able to have, be

40:45able to walk to multiple station based vehicles.

40:49Right.

40:50So usually I am willing to walk to about half a dozen different station based vehicles.

40:55And I live near downtown.

40:56I live near Water Street along the river.

41:01And usually there's something available.

41:03Now for me, I have a more flexible schedule.

41:06So I have that flexibility that might not be afforded to someone that works a traditional

41:10like the five or something, but it's not the worst.

41:14Yeah.

41:15Just need to have some flexibility with a lot, but a lot of people that, you know, because

41:19a large part of that user base, they can't afford a car.

41:23So, you know, there's some flexibility sometimes.

41:27I don't know.

41:28It's, it's interesting.

41:30Yeah.

41:31But sometimes I do other car show users just as much as that thing or just as my trip

41:36is stopping and they're like, let me do talk briefly about this very interesting.

41:40But yeah, Aaron's is the big thing with that in downtown feels like a bit of a food

41:44desert in summer.

41:45And it's, it's only like extensive health food stores.

41:50So also, obviously to any other like just ideas and questions, you know, we had the

41:58engagement question of what would convince you to leave your car at home or if you already

42:03don't use a car, you know, what are your reasons for that being your, you know, your other

42:11choice.

42:12Welcome any feedback that too.

42:15Before we wrap up.

42:17Have you talked to in the RITS or is it?

42:21No, yeah, but that is one on the list actually.

42:23Yeah.

42:24With the Swiss workers so that you can talk to like the airtree community because there's

42:28a big, I believe you should kind of like the willow.

42:31Yeah.

42:32Yeah.

42:33All of them do work in the factories as well.

42:36And some of them don't have cars.

42:37So they are commuting walking a lot.

42:39So that would be a good community, like a good pocket of people too.

42:43And like the immigration services would be a good connection point for there to connect

42:49with them.

42:51Expanding on that reaching out to the cultural institutions too, because there are a lot

42:56of like newcomers research project right now, but being at like labor shortage and newcomer

43:01attraction and the like and one common trend in the literature seems to be that there's

43:04a sizable portion of newcomers that aren't connected with the services that could serve

43:09them well.

43:10And a lot of them bridge gaps, whether it be transportation or housing, et cetera, through

43:17those at the cultural institutions.

43:19So that might be something to complement more traditional.

43:23So.

43:24Thank you.

43:25Absolutely.

43:26Yeah.

43:27And then I think with the show they all would ask if you had a good connection.

43:30Yes.

43:31Because a lot of times walk there because they're all within walking distance to that.

43:36But that's a good community because they want to get places, but they also don't know how

43:41to get places.

43:43Thank you for saying.

43:47I know one of the people really interesting nonprofit food actors involved.

43:52So with the food, you know, the neighbor, the seed, community food and the like.

43:59And accessing a lot.

44:01Yeah.

44:02There's a couple of the ones that too.

44:05And a lot of those services, love whether you're picking up groceries or you're picking

44:11up a meal and whatnot accessing certain spot in the community.

44:15And so a lot of their users rely on walking or transit, et cetera.

44:22Yeah.

44:23But by the way, something.

44:25I mean, sometimes it's little things that change your mind.

44:32And you know, you remind me of this talk about Copenhagen and other really bike friendly

44:38and pedestrian friendly cities.

44:43The pedestrian comes first on almost all of the downtown streets.

44:49If I want to step out into the road and cross everybody stops for me.

44:53It's not the other way around.

44:55It's a huge difference in how it feels just to not be in a car in those places.

45:01Wells very much the opposite.

45:04And little things like if there's a stairway to get from a lower area in the city to a higher

45:11one, having a rail for bike wheels or a double rail for strollers.

45:18These things are huge to making accessibility differences.

45:27Have you considered doing like targeted survey for like with major employment areas here or

45:35like businesses?

45:36Well, we'll do a main survey is going to be of the general population, if you like.

45:44I will ask it's asked the same questions as the survey on have you say, but it does ask

45:49people about, you know, how they travel, what modes they use and how they feel about other

45:54modes, whether they're open to them or not.

45:58We're not doing a sort of targeting.

46:02You know, employment specifically.

46:05Yeah, because like the question that you mentioned that really drives here.

46:10And one being, you know, people who work in major employment areas.

46:16I know in cities, which have the smart commute program or like some sort of, you know, similar.

46:25Yeah, smart commute is a transportation management program, right?

46:29Or similar programs.

46:31They do like targeted outreach to institutional areas or like employment organizations.

46:42And I think that would help you get some tailored data for employment, but I'm not sure if like it's

46:49feasible within the scope of your study.

46:51I know they do like the game if either their surveys like they put a prize like a $5 prize or like a

46:57call or something.

46:59And I'm kind of like, you know, encourage us people to answer to the survey, maybe like two or three

47:05questions, one minute.

47:07I think that would be more likely to be like a, if say the action plan includes a measure to do that kind of

47:16employment program, then that's what we would do those kind of surveys as part of the roll out the

47:22implementation of, yeah, really getting into sort of the customized travel planning for that employer,

47:29each employer.

47:31But anyway, that's.

47:34Can you mind if I jump in here for a second.

47:39It is helpful as part of presentation included that there was, there is the potential to have a

47:47developers toolkit.

47:49And in that there's a bunch of things that we mentioned incentives.

47:53So like one incentive that I've seen before is having an employer build a like a bike facility in their

48:01building that allow people to go and park their bike and potentially like take a shower after

48:06riding to the office kind of thing.

48:10So like that is something that we're thinking about.

48:15But you know if there's a specific employer groups even like if there's a board of trade or something that we could

48:23reach out to, like that would be very helpful.

48:27If you know of anything like that.

48:30Yeah, just just wanted to point that out.

48:38We have a downtime.

48:40Well, business.

48:41Yeah, so.

48:44I was a chamber of comments that thing as well.

48:47Yes.

48:52So I, if there's no more questions right now, we just we just obviously would like to come back.

48:59We've got more, more to present later in the year or early in next year.

49:05That sounds good with you.

49:08Actually, one more question is for this degree, I think I.

49:13Would it be offered in different languages?

49:16Yeah, well it's available.

49:18So the have you say platform.

49:21It's quite a new format of platform that you recently adopted and it has it's not very obvious, but there is a really useful little toggle flag down in the bottom left corner.

49:34It shows a Canadian flag, but you can click on that and it gives you 10 other language options.

49:38Is it only on desktop or not?

49:40Not sure actually.

49:41I haven't tested it on my phone.

49:43I was curious because a lot of times you're on here.

49:45Yeah, I'll have a look.

49:47It's a good point.

49:49Yeah, it's on my phone.

49:51I didn't notice it.

49:53Maybe I'll have a look at that.

49:56Yeah, they, they, there's 10 languages and I think they chose ones that were most appropriate.

50:01Oh, well, community too.

50:04Yeah.

50:05And it translates the page and the survey as well.

50:08On there.

50:09So that's really handy.

50:11Yeah.

50:12Yeah, that's perfect.

50:13Yeah.

50:14I'm not sure that that everyone is comfortable with English right away.

50:19Yeah, it does.

50:21Oh, it's great.

50:23Yeah.

50:25Yeah.

50:27Excuse me, community.

50:29I would like to interrupt.

50:31I would like to share my screen about the motions.

50:35This is what I get from, from, or from your conversation.

50:42So are you can just parse this motion or you can create another motion or you can just not passing any motion.

50:51This is your choice.

50:52So just let me know.

50:53Yeah.

50:57Or if you found any errors or like some mistakes, you just let me know.

51:02Thank you.

51:04It's poverty task force, not property.

51:08Sorry.

51:09Yeah, sorry.

51:10My bad.

51:30Those are.

51:33We passed the first motion.

51:35We did.

51:37So I will.

51:41To.

51:43To pass the second motion.

51:46That the attack provider from nation regarding the individual groups to engage listed below.

51:53Not going to read them all out.

51:55All in favor.

51:58All opposed.

52:00Motion has passed.

52:02Thank you.

52:04Chair may I interrupt.

52:06We would like to have a mover first and the second or sorry.

52:09No worries.

52:10No worries.

52:11Yeah.

52:13Second.

52:15Okay.

52:16All in favor.

52:18All those.

52:20Okay.

52:22That has passed.

52:26Thank you.

52:39Thank you.

52:41Thank you.

52:43The staff have any other announcements or anything to pad.

52:50I had one.

52:52So.

52:54I think we had emails back and forth regarding your question about silver.

52:59The planes and the traffic impact.

53:02So.

53:04I believe we shared the response with the old committee.

53:07I think that's a good thing about bringing your presentation in September to you.

53:13So we can talk about broader transportation planning, you know.

53:17Work and how we approach the projects, the types of studies or data collection we do.

53:25I feel that would be appropriate use of our time and also like a.

53:29You know, a good presentation because we just kicked off this.

53:33We're looking at a lot of different types of projects.

53:36We're looking at a lot of different types of projects.

53:39We're looking at lots and that.

53:41Do you think that would be a good use of the time.

53:44Or beneficial for general knowledge.

53:47Given that we're, you know, looking for your advice on future projects.

53:54That specific area.

53:57I'm not for this specific area.

53:59We're looking for a broader presentation just to.

54:02What types of studies we do.

54:04The types of engagement that are included in those studies.

54:08So you like explain like arterial flow and the traffic like feeding kind of.

54:13Into kind of that kind of idea.

54:15Not like a not like specifically like yeah, the overall kind of like.

54:21But the scope of our projects and how we approach the work rather than like.

54:26The educational stuff of, you know, what's arterial.

54:29We're not going to do that.

54:30But you know, more of like how we approach design and how those.

54:34Designs are informed by our guidelines and, you know, documents and policies.

54:40And the actual.

54:41So.

54:42Has it gone through a show that.

54:44We can't, we can look at that.

54:46I haven't worked on the presentation, but I was looking for like a broad, you know, general.

54:50I think that.

54:52And transportation.

54:53I mean, because.

54:54Sometimes I wonder why this was designed this way.

54:57Yeah, that's true.

54:58Yeah, and that's a valid question. So.

55:01So that was kind of like my.

55:05Idea to bring. Yeah, I think that would be useful because.

55:09When you talk to people in the community.

55:13Social media, let's say when.

55:15Well, transit posts so we're going to do this.

55:18There's a lot of feedback based on ignorance of.

55:21The various policies and planning procedures and just transit management in general.

55:28So I think any kind of awareness.

55:31Is a good thing.

55:33I think knowledge is power. So I think it would be a good.

55:37Okay.

55:38So.

55:39We're going to bring that to our September is meeting.

55:42Okay.

55:43Anything else?

55:45Okay. So would anyone like to move to a journey?

55:50Second.

55:55All in favor.

55:57All opposed.

55:59No. Okay. So the next meeting will be in September.

56:0418.

56:05Okay.

56:06So.

56:07We're going to bring that to our September is meeting.

56:09Okay.

56:10Anything else?

56:11Okay.

56:12So would anyone like to move to a journey?

56:14Yeah.

56:16Yeah.

56:19Thank you.

56:20Thank you.

56:23Thank you.

56:25Thank you.

56:27Thank you.

56:28Thank you all.

56:30Have great evening.