City Council

0:26All right, good morning everyone. It is Tuesday, March 26, 2024. It is 10 a.m.

0:32And it is our city council meeting, so I'd like to call the meeting to order.

0:37Just right off the bat, we did get regrets from councillor Rourke today.

0:42She may pop in later if possible, but this is a heads up probably not.

0:46With that, if I could ask everyone to rise if you're able as we recognize our national anthem.

0:51Great. Thank you. And now just for a moment of silent reflection.

2:34Great. Thank you. And our territorial acknowledgement.

2:37As we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in Guelph,

2:42a city that is built over rich indigenous histories.

2:45We're guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land,

2:49the people who live here today and the generations to come.

2:53For actions today can move us towards reconciliation.

2:56We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

3:01This place we call Guelph is served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time,

3:06but more specifically the Aniwanderach and the Honolunashoni.

3:10This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation.

3:16And Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track and is part of a long established traditional hunting ground

3:22for the six nations of the Grand River.

3:24Many First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples who have come from across Turtle Island called Guelph home today.

3:32With that, is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof for the items that are listed on the agenda today?

3:40Don't hear or see anything there, so consider that matter closed.

3:45We got a few consent items, both as coming from committee and on council.

3:50And then we also have one item that's been added with some delegations ahead of us.

3:56So would someone be willing to move?

4:01Let me just ask if there's anyone that wants to pull anything.

4:04The committee consent is the 2024 property tax policy.

4:10And the private tree protection bylaw and the internal audit work plan.

4:21Great. And then under the consent for council, I'll just see if I can wrap it all up into one here, the Parkland dedication for that emergency shelter.

4:30Okay, see now, would someone be willing to move both of those for me?

4:32Councillor Alden Bousatil will second.

4:35Thank you.

4:36And I'll call the vote then.

4:37Is anyone against those two portions of consent?

4:42Well, that's unanimous.

4:43So that's great.

4:44Thank you very much.

4:45So we only have the one item for discussion, as I mentioned, which is the city of Hamilton resolution support for the decision of the Ontario energy board to end the gas pipeline subsidy.

4:57We have a few delegations that have signed up for this, but as is normal kind of process, Councillor Caron has pulled this item to have it added to the discussion for today.

5:09I think it would be appropriate for Councillor Caron, just a couple minutes sort of preamble just to kind of set the stage. If I could call it that just to understand what is being put forward.

5:23And then we can go to the delegations and then I could go back to Councillor Caron to look to move the recommendations from there.

5:30Does that work for you?

5:32It does work for me.

5:33I do have a question of procedure, Mr. Mayor, in advance.

5:38I noticed to you, it's just about the five minutes when I because I'm bringing the motion forward. Will any questions I ask or any questions I answer to if a member of council asks me a question and I answer that question.

5:53Is that included in my five minute limit?

6:00Yes.

6:02Okay.

6:03Okay, well, start the clock then. I'll have a very quick preamble, which is that this came to my attention when we received a letter from Environmental Defense regarding an Enbridge position to

6:16reverse the Ontario Energy Board decision to subsidize future fossil gas infrastructure into new development areas.

6:25We were shortly thereafter received a letter from the Home Builders Association, which prompted me to do a considerable amount of research into what this was all about because it really was very complex situation.

6:39I've submitted to clerks and to council all of the background information, a copy of the OEB decision, a copy of the Enbridge letter, a copy of the Home Builders letter, a copy of the Environmental Defense letter,

6:51that wasn't able to be put on the agenda package due to our procedural bylaw. So I just wanted on public record for the council meeting record that I did post all of that information, including a draft motion and a preamble about the reasons behind this motion.

7:07The only place I could post it was my website, so ward5.ca in the top right hand corner under a blog. There is a background attachment for all of the information that I sent to council.

7:19So for those who are watching, who are wondering what this is all about and why there's no information on the agenda.

7:25It's a procedural thing, but I have posted all that information where it's publicly accessible. So without further ado, I'm not going to read the preamble because that is going to cut into my five minutes and we can get started on the delegations.

7:38But my summary introductory comments is that we have a community energy plan that wants us to move forward on the energy transition. We have all of the key ingredients in place.

7:54The OEB, the Ontario Energy Board, is an independent regulator who acts in the public interest and after a great deal of investigation data, research, stakeholder consultation, they came to the conclusion that the fossil gas subsidy will not help us with, as a province, that energy transition.

8:13And that is unfair to our communities to continue subsidizing the building of fossil gas infrastructure.

8:21Their decision was them doing their job. And so the introduction of a reversal by the province has meant that two things that we're going to continue to subsidize fossil gas.

8:32We're not going to meet our net zero 2050 goals and we and they the legislation also includes language where they're the politicization of appointments to the Ontario Energy Board, which is contrary to what the energy board's purpose is, are being introduced as part of bill 165.

8:52So I believe that there's a number of councils, I believe five to date and two more coming included not including the city of Hamilton.

8:58So six who have passed similar motions to what's on the floor today, which is to support the OEB decision to cease the subsidization of fossil gas development in our in our greenfield development communities.

9:11And I'll pass it back to you, Mr. Mayor.

9:13Great. Thank you so much.

9:18We have a few delegations and just before we start asking them to come forward.

9:23We have been told in advance that the last delegation, which was Adrian Curry as listed on the agenda was unable to make it, but a substitute to read and delegate in on their behalf is Keith Brooks.

9:41Now that is not something that we would normally allow.

9:45But it is up to the chair.

9:47And so I am going to be okay with that.

9:50But I just want to know if anyone wants to challenge my decision on that.

9:54Okay. Thank you.

9:56So we'll allow Keith Brooks to take the place of Adrian Curry.

10:01With that, for any of our delegations that are coming forward, either in person or they're online or video, you have no more than five minutes.

10:12And you'll hear a chime at the four minutes and 30 second mark that gives you the 30 second warning that you only have 30 seconds left.

10:21So please make sure that you adhere to that because you will be cut off at the five minutes and I don't want to do that.

10:29No one wants to do that.

10:30So just make sure you stay within the allotted time.

10:33And we're going to go with our first delegation, I believe is in person, which is Samantha Hicks.

10:40Is Samantha here?

10:41Yes.

10:42And in the wings Abigail Walden and Inga Moran, are you here?

10:51Yes. Okay. You're in the wings.

10:52Okay.

10:53So you're up next.

10:56Welcome, Samantha.

10:57Thank you very much.

10:58And I'll turn it over to you.

11:00Great. Thank you.

11:01Good morning, everyone.

11:02I want to first express my gratitude first to all of you for all of the service that you provide to better our Guelph community and beyond.

11:13And I also want to thank the land that we're standing on that is holding us and caring for us in so many ways, which often go unnoticed and underappreciated.

11:26This land, our earth loves us unconditionally and is very sick right now and is in an emergency.

11:35And despite her state, she still provides.

11:39She is in need of our care and we can do this and show this in so many ways.

11:44And one of the ways we can, we can show her love is by supporting this motion to support the OEB decision to stop subsidizing Enbridge to be the default energy provider for new development when heat pumps actually save people more money and are better for the environment.

12:04And if all this Mother Earth stuff isn't your jam, think about it as clean air, clean water, clean soil for you, your grandkids, your kids and your community.

12:15And if you want to keep these pristine, then we all need to do our part to take care.

12:21We all have the same goal and need to keep life going and to thrive.

12:28We all want us and future generations to be safe and to flourish.

12:34Building more subsidized gas lines for new homes is not in line with what we want for our future.

12:42So why would we be subsidizing Enbridge's gas expansion, expansion of gas heated homes that keeps locking us in for years to come?

12:52I do not want my money going to this expansion and I know many others who do not.

12:57And I would rather want to be subsidizing building a sustainable energy system that we want for our future that is aligned with our goals and needs.

13:07We already have so many existing sources that are burning fossil fuels and we definitely don't need more.

13:16The evidence is loud and clear.

13:19The burning of fossil fuels is hurting our earth and us.

13:23So don't create new lines and new homes and buildings when it's one of the things we should be avoiding.

13:28It's not environmentally sound and it's not grounded in indigenous wisdom and scientific knowledge.

13:35And if economics is your priority, then why would we pay for something now that we're going to need to pay again to change later?

13:44Let's just do it right from the start.

13:47We need war time effort.

13:51Margaret Klein Solomon in her book Facing the Climate Emergency, which I encourage you all to read, speaks about this.

13:58We've done this in the past.

14:01We've done this effort in the past with other emergencies that we've faced and recently with COVID.

14:07We've seen how we can pivot and we can do it again.

14:12We need to make changes now and not incrementally now.

14:16And if the grid is in demand and we've run into challenges, well thank goodness we're humans and that we have a powerful tool, our imaginations.

14:24And we need to trust in our abilities and look at what we've already done when we faced other emergencies.

14:31And we need to look to other communities who are doing inventive, creative, sustainable solutions.

14:37Ontarians can do this too.

14:40By relying on fossil fuel infrastructure, it robs us of the opportunity to do something better and create the sustainable energy system we want.

14:51We need to lessen our spending on fossil fuel infrastructure, which will allow us to still keep housing, which will allow us to have housing be affordable and help fight climate change.

15:03And if Enbridge keeps getting what it wants, it will not do either of these things.

15:09Bring the land into this room, I ask of you today.

15:13If she was here to have a vote, would she support this motion?

15:19Of course. What would she want you to do?

15:23Support the original OEB decision.

15:27And you can do this unanimously. That would be wonderful.

15:32Think about the impact that that would make and what that would tell everybody.

15:36Thank you all for your time.

15:40Great. I just want to make sure you knew you have 30 seconds left. I didn't want that bell to be.

15:44Yes, no, I know.

15:45Or you were right on that bell.

15:47I'm good.

15:48Okay. Thank you. Is there any follow up questions?

15:52None at this time. So thank you very much.

15:55Thanks.

15:56All right. Up next is Abigail and Indigo.

16:02Evan Ferrari, you are in the wings. So come on forward.

16:10Thank you very much for coming.

16:12And the time will start when you both start. Okay, go ahead.

16:18Good day, Mr. Mayor, members of council and citizens of Guelph.

16:22My name is Indigo Moran.

16:24And my name is Abigail Walton.

16:26As grade 11 students currently attending high school in the city of Guelph,

16:31we come representing a large group of youth from across the city.

16:36We fully support the Ontario Energy Board decision to end the gas pipeline subsidy

16:40and Councillor Caron's motion for the city of Guelph to show its support.

16:45Within the early years of our adulthood,

16:47the climate goals that the current government has in place will either be met or missed.

16:52Actions we take as individuals and as communities will determine this outcome.

16:58In Canada, our goal as a country is to be net zero by 2050.

17:03In order for this goal to be met, we must no longer be emitting any greenhouse gases by that time.

17:09Our nation has pledged this along with 120 countries across the globe.

17:14Guelph is one of the many cities that have committed to be net zero by 2050 community-wide

17:19and achieve 100% renewable energy for city operations.

17:24Encouraging Enbridge gas to continue to subsidize and construct new natural gas pipelines

17:30and supporting them and the Ontario government is a step backwards from meeting these climate goals.

17:36It is imperative that fossil fuels be phased out in order for us to limit our carbon emissions

17:41and meet these critical deadlines.

17:44Without a planet, there will not be an economy to protect.

17:48Imposing new natural gas infrastructure would be pointless and counterproductive

17:53to a green energy transition and ultimately,

17:56many of the efforts already to save the environment.

18:00Continuing to change and charge customers over the lifetime of these developments

18:05would not only discourage the use of green energy,

18:08it would be impractical to customers as they would be paying for this development long after the 2050 deadline of net zero has passed.

18:16Instead, charging housing developers for the construction and connection of energy sources up front

18:22will encourage them to implement renewable sources of energy

18:26as this will be more beneficial in the long term both financially and environmentally.

18:31Our current Ontario government has said they want to build 1.5 million homes by 2031,

18:38increasing affordability in the process.

18:41This does not need to but often comes at the expense of natural environments and ecosystems.

18:46For example, wetlands and other habitats are frequently sold for housing developments.

18:51However, this is an occasion where one decision will result in both housing affordability and environmental sustainability.

18:59In a few years time, young people like ourselves will be facing the heightened effects of the climate crisis

19:04on our health, infrastructure, supply chains, green spaces and more,

19:09while simultaneously trying to pay for our homes and heating.

19:12Numerous studies show that energy efficiency, conservation, renewables and other technologies

19:18are actually less expensive than more natural gas use.

19:21Plenty of youth are worried about not being able to pay for their futures,

19:25or worse, having no futures at all.

19:28Either of these could very well be the reality if we implement natural gas pipelines connecting to homes

19:33that will run for the next 60 years.

19:36The OEB themselves argued that new natural gas infrastructure will be overbuilt and underutilized.

19:42There is no need for the subsidy.

19:45If it is allowed to continue, we will be living with the results of this mistake for generations to come.

19:50We are at a crucial point in our history, where we must start taking action immediately and must all do our part.

19:56We must follow the course of action best for our planet long term and with short term benefits such as affordable energy and housing.

20:03We urge you once more to stand with the Ontario Energy Board in opposing Enbridge natural gas subsidy.

20:11As a community, we must prioritize the health of our planet by encouraging transitions to greener energy sources,

20:18especially when doing so ensures housing affordability.

20:21As young adults, we ask this out of concern for our adulthood, for future generations and for the earth.

20:28Thank you.

20:29Great. Thank you for your presentation.

20:31Thank you for coming. See if there's any follow-up to you.

20:35There isn't, so thank you very much for coming and delegating. We appreciate that.

20:39Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you.

20:41Next is Evan Ferrari and let's see here after Evan is Anna Gascon Marco by video and then Keith Brooks by video.

20:55So Evan, welcome and I'll turn it over to you.

20:59Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and members of council.

21:03I have to say that how inspired I am by the delegation of young people before me, they truly give me hope.

21:11The issue before you today is an opportunity for council to show climate leadership and trust in an institution.

21:20The OEB currently exists to protect the interests of energy consumers from an economic, social and environmental perspective as per their mandate.

21:30It is our watchdog, but it doesn't exist to do the bidding of the fossil fuel industry or a government that apparently wants to see more fossil fuel burned.

21:42Emerge wealth sustainability wholeheartedly supports the December decision of the OEB to end fossil fuel pipeline subsidy.

21:51Pardon me. And we support the draft motion that will be coming forward to show your backing for that OEB decision.

22:00When existing gas customers will see their rates increase to pay for new customers instead of developers, it is clearly a subsidy.

22:09In contrast to this, new connections of hydro services that Electra slash Guelph Hydro or for that fact the city's own water and wastewater infrastructure are paid by the developers that are requesting these services, not existing customers.

22:28While other utilities have to pay for their own expansion, the provincial government wants us to subsidize Enbridge, a fossil fuel company.

22:38The OEB looks rather the OEB also points out that as homeowners, businesses and institutions work on decarbonizing their buildings away from fossil fuel.

22:49The burden of this subsidy will be carried on the backs of a smaller customer base that translate to even greater costs for the remaining customers.

22:58And from our perspective, the OEB decision also takes into account the impacts that climate change is having on consumer choices.

23:07Mr. Mayor and members of council, I urge you to support the OEB decision to end this fossil fuel subsidy and to share your decision with your colleagues and municipalities across the province.

23:18Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

23:20Great. And thank you, Evan. Any follow up for Evan at this time?

23:25Seeing none. Thank you very much.

23:27Thank you.

23:28And then by video, Anna Gascon-Marco, hopefully I'm saying that right.

23:36Anna, can you join us? It's Mayor Guthrie.

23:42Okay, and we just need you to make sure you turn your video on there if you wish to do that.

23:51Yeah, I think you can.

23:52Can you hear me?

23:53Yes.

23:54And see and hear you.

23:55So thank you very much for joining us and you have up to five minutes as well. Go right ahead.

24:00Okay. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, councillors.

24:03So I just want to relate to some of the terms that often are used as resiliency and affordability net zero energy security. All of those are thrown out there and sometimes misused to kind of like make us feel fear and often also as greenwashing terms.

24:25So I'm going to address two of them, which is resiliency and affordability and then I'll dive into the net zero.

24:32So, we're seeing an affordability.

24:36As I understand this, these two terms relate to the capacity of our communities to thrive in our buildings to cope with climate events that sometimes could strain in our city's infrastructure.

24:49Buildings need to perform well at all times, but especially when most needed, which is usually the coldest and warmest days.

24:59There's evidence that a building built to this, you know, better standards can still be affordable and provide the resiliency we need without having to rely on fossil fuels.

25:12The support level that I share with council contains a graph of the cost of those type of buildings that are being built to a better standard. And again, they don't have to rely on fossil fuels to provide affordability.

25:29And again, there is no relation with those buildings having a higher per square dollar per square foot cost.

25:38And if our policies were to ask for better buildings to be built this way, society would move in this direction and feel it would feel supported.

25:50We are these type of buildings also just to put it on record, usually could consume up to 90% less of heating than a regular building.

26:00That is why using electricity for those type of buildings, it actually could not put any strains on our current rates.

26:11If we really, if we talk about net zero, and again, it's another term that unfortunately is used by many as a green definition of what a sustainable term is, is only relates to creating in a building as much energy as the building consumes.

26:32So the building itself could be still be the worst performing built in, again, not resilient, and would still be able to meet net zero, provided energy would be generated on that building by means of PV panels which are suitable take panels or other means.

26:54However, if we in that term net zero we add carbon.

26:59These relates to buildings that could still generate energy on site.

27:04But the main difference with the term that I just explained only net zero is that this we also look at having low carbon again, a building that is not relying on fossil fuels for heating and or pulling.

27:21This again would improve our resiliency of our grades because again, we are our buildings will be consuming less energy overall.

27:33Not having not having to have that's to be able to be resilient or affordable.

27:45To provide you also with a comparison of how gas relates to energy.

27:56The values the ref the emissions in fact to reference values by the government of Canada.

28:03They provide us with two numbers. One is for natural guys, which has a 1921 to 1921 grams of CO2 per cubic meter.

28:15And that compared to electricity in Ontario.

28:19As a consumption intensity value of 30 grams for CO2 equivalent for kilowatt power of electricity consume.

28:28Again, in order to put those two numbers together, if we compared grams of CO2 to kilowatts hour that result is that gases 549 times provides has more emissions that electricity.

28:44So I hope that council takes all of our comments into account and see this as a future and very resilient.

28:53Forward, not to support.

28:57In breaks.

28:59Thanks.

29:00And thank you very much.

29:02And let me see if there's a follow up question. Yes, Councillor Caron.

29:06And then council or all to stay with us for a couple of questions.

29:10Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And thank you to the delegate. You seem to have a lot of technical knowledge on this subject.

29:17Is this is this an area of expertise for you? Are you have you seen homes and buildings who have demonstrated this this data in your in your work.

29:27Exactly. Yeah, I think.

29:30That's kind of like what we do. We, we design buildings that are built to better standards. Hence, they don't need as much energy.

29:40So if we couple having lower energy consumption for a building.

29:46Which, you know, regardless of the type of like energy we use that that is like a benefit.

29:52So again, the net serial would work calm when more energy is used. So when we look at that.

30:00Without with that lens.

30:04It makes sense really that we start implementing policies to again request that buildings consume this energy period. So, so our societies can be more resilient moving forward.

30:18Great. Thank you. And to council or alt.

30:21Thank you very much. Mayor Guthrie through you to the delegate Ms. Gasco and Marco.

30:31Thank you very much. I've read your letter and I appreciate your expertise on this. So I want to ask a couple of economics questions. If you don't mind.

30:39With regards to the cost of construction and your comments with regards to resilience.

30:44I was wondering if you could perhaps provide a little bit of data off the top of your head about the cost of actually installing natural gas pipeline for the household for the subdivision and whether that funding could actually be better used through developing as you said, more resilient houses.

31:05I think so. I'm not aware of that specific cost that you're asking.

31:15However, the.

31:19Again, just shifting how we think of like our buildings. Historically, our buildings, they have not required to be built to.

31:30Very high standards. So, even today we can still be built very like housing and other buildings with, you know, have still have a lot of like energy that will be needed to operate those buildings and create those buildings.

31:48So, again, if policies are made to shift away.

31:55From, from what we are doing right now.

32:00As per what I share, like developers embrace these type of like opportunities, especially if they see a return like dollar benefit or what they do.

32:12And, and they will.

32:14They will really provide a truly affordable option. Again, those projects are the ones that I share are only projects that are affordable housing options.

32:25So, if it can basically work in this type of projects, my, my belief is that it can work for any type of projects that are being designed and built today.

32:38Thank you. Just a quick one. I don't know if you know this, but I hope you do.

32:43I think if I'm correct and I'm up on my building standards, we're building houses to an R 40 standard approximately, but I understand we should likely be building them to an R 60 standard.

32:58Is that part of what you see as a as a potential alternative to to natural gas?

33:04So, again, those are that's one of the things. So, as we think, just, just so you can see it clearly as we, you know, think of putting more like when we want to warm up.

33:16We usually put a quote around our bodies. So this would be the same for our houses just like a slightly bigger quote that what we are doing today.

33:31And the other piece, which again is something that our current codes request, but it's still four times higher than other building standards that are more stringent is how much air goes through our envelope.

33:46So, those are really the main things that will make sure that our buildings are.

33:51They don't have a lot of holes. Basically, we're not building through your cheeses as our buildings.

33:59They, because there's not a lot of air moving through our building energy will be contained. So more like a thermos. If we think of it, like everything that we put either hot or cold, will, will, will be really maintained better.

34:15And this better been better built building.

34:19And that is really our resiliency piece right there. And because again, we are reducing how much energy they build in requires.

34:29Again, if we talk about net serial, that is what really makes sense, because we are putting just enough to meet the lower requirements. So, as I see it first reduce energy, then put something that generates energy.

34:44So that is really the optimum scenario.

34:46As I see it.

34:48Thank you very much.

34:50Thank you.

34:51Great. Thank you so much and seeing nothing further. We appreciate your time.

34:58Thank you.

34:59Thank you.

35:01And so last, I think also joining by video will now be Keith Brooks.

35:07On behalf of Adrian Curry.

35:09And I think we just need your video to be turned on there, Keith.

35:14Yeah, I'm just working on it here.

35:19No problem. We can hear you.

35:20There we go.

35:21We see, we see and hear you.

35:23Excellent.

35:24Oh, yep. There you go. Don't move. Perfect.

35:29You have five minutes as well. Go right ahead.

35:32Mayor and council members, thanks so much for having me here today. My name is Keith Brooks. I'm the programs director for environmental defense Canada.

35:39We were intravenous in the hearing at the Ontario energy board on this matter.

35:43And we're firmly of the opinion that the OEB ruling is a good decision and one that should stand.

35:48Reversing this decision will increase costs for existing gas users.

35:52It will incentivize builders to continue to install gas furnaces into new homes, which will actually the higher costs for those new homeowners because cold climate.

36:01Air source heat pumps are cheaper to use and will of course, sorry, person decision would also, of course, worsen the climate crisis and challenge wealth stability to meet its own climate targets.

36:12The only entity that benefits from reversing this decision is Enbridge.

36:17In addition to getting new customers that can sell gas to keeping the subsidy would increase and bridges capital budget and therefore and bridges profits.

36:25Now, I know that Enbridge is arguing that this is not a subsidy, though it clearly is a subsidy.

36:30The cost to connect new homes are paid upfront by Enbridge costing the builder nothing.

36:36Enbridge raises the money to pay this by raising gas rates, which is what the rebasing hearing at the OEB was all about.

36:43And the new homeowners do not have to pay a premium to cover the costs of getting this gas for free. They paid the same rate as everybody else.

36:50Now, Enbridge and the Ontario Ministry of Energy are arguing that this was a rash and unreasonable decision from the OEB, but it was anything but that.

36:59The OEB decision was a sound decision arrived after a year long hearing.

37:03The decision is 147 pages long. It's a thorough hearing on the matters at hand, which led to the realization that the energy transition is afoot.

37:11New technologies have emerged and home builders should consider that when building new homes to ensure they are suited both to a warmer climate and their current climate.

37:19And they're consistent with the global effort to decarbonize.

37:22And in this case, it simply means that home builders should ask whether they should install gas or go with a heat pump instead.

37:28You see, the subsidy created what's called a split incentive.

37:31The builders just go with gas because that's what they've always done and it's free for them because Enbridge pays for it.

37:37Whereas the homeowner would benefit though if they had a heat pump instead because it's cheaper to operate.

37:42And of course, it means that their home can be heated without using fossil fuels without contributing to the climate crisis.

37:48It also avoids the costs down the road of having to switch from a gas furnace to a decarbonized solution like a heat pump.

37:56And it doesn't add to the price of the home. This is a conclusion arrived at by professors at the University of Toronto by lawyers at Gallings.

38:03I know some of this materials have been circulated to council bodies have arrived at this independently.

38:08And if the builders decide to add gas at all, the costs are small and essentially a wash and the builders can of course avoid those costs altogether by not installing gas.

38:19Enbridge is acting as though this is the beginning of the end of gas and I actually hope that it is, but we should not overstate what the OED ruling is, which is to say it's not a gas ban.

38:29Any developer is still free to install a gas soak up and a gas furnace.

38:33Enbridge is overstating the impacts here and fear mongering about the impacts of the electricity sector, though two packs are important.

38:39This ruling doesn't ban gas. It has no impact on existing gas users other than saving the money.

38:45It's also not going to have an abrupt abrupt impact on electricity demand.

38:49And also the ISO the grid manager is planning for increased demand electricity because of a switch to heat pumps.

38:55So I would urge well city council to vote in favor of the resolution supporting the OED.

39:00It will protect the existing gas users from a rate increase to pay for the subsidy.

39:04It will protect new home home owners from getting hooked on gas fossil fuel, which will cost them more to heat with and need to be switched out at some point.

39:12And it will also improve wealth ability to meet the city's climate targets.

39:16Other cities like Toronto or sorry like Montreal and then I'm over Vancouver actually banning gas from new homes.

39:21This decision does not do that.

39:23And that is something we should be beginning to talk about in Ontario.

39:26The first step today though is supporting the OED ruling and I thank wealth council for considering it.

39:31Thank you so much Keith for joining us. Is there any follow up for Keith at all? Yes, of course, Councillor Ald.

39:38Thank you very much, Mr Mayor through you to the delegate Mr Brooks.

39:43Mr Brooks, you stated clearly this is a subsidy and I also heard you say that this is not a gas ban.

39:51I was wondering if you would have any idea of the numbers in terms of what you argue is the subsidy.

39:59How much does this cost per household for piping so on and so forth?

40:05Well, the OED ruling and their decision they concluded that it costs about $4,000 on average for the average home to connect to gas.

40:16Okay, thank you. Great. Is there any more questions for the, okay. Yeah, Councillor Caron.

40:25Yes, thank you through you Mr Mayor to the delegate. Thank you Mr Brooks for being here.

40:29You struck upon two questions that I was curious about.

40:33About new homeowners and no surcharge for hookup. So in that case, there's no, the gas infrastructure prior to development in Greenfields has nothing to do with DCs.

40:47There's no DC charge here that homeowners are not being charged more in their development charge and their building fees.

40:57There's no additional costs to a homeowner to get gas infrastructure into a development. Is that correct? And no charge to the developer either.

41:05That's right. Enbridge applies for money from the OED. They asked to increase their rates to be able to pay to expand the gas network to new homes in areas already serviced by gas and they're bringing pipelines basically right up to into the subdivisions to the homes themselves.

41:20It's not covered by development charges. It's paid for by Enbridge at no cost to the homeowner, no cost to the home builder. And this is this is the subsidy that we want to remove.

41:30It's paid for by Enbridge, but Enbridge of course only raises money by increasing gas rates. And that's why we say it's a subsidy. It's paid for by all existing gas users and that was the OED's ruling as they said this would reduce costs for existing gas users, which is the OED's prime mandate as an economic regulator.

41:47Their mandate is to control costs for energy users. So it would reduce costs for them. It would it would reduce costs for new homeowners who would get a heat pump, which is cheaper to operate.

41:57And of course, it's also consistent with the province's articulated goals around decarbonization. And I know those are goals that that Guelph City Council shares as well.

42:06So years ago, and I'm trying to equate this to years ago when when Ontario Hydro put stranded assets on our hydro bills, we could all see what that stranded asset was costing us on our utility bills. This this is not visible like that.

42:21This is this is inside a base rate or of some kind. This is this is inside the rate that we don't see it's is it invisible to the average customer.

42:31That's right.

42:32It's expensive.

42:34It's it's covered. Yes, we can't see those rates. We can't see the costs of what you know existing users are are paying in terms of subsidizing Enbridge's activities, including its expansion activities.

42:46We subsidize other activities that Enbridge partakes. In fact, the letters sent to Guelph City Council and other municipal councils across Ontario were paid for by Enbridge, which were paid for from the rate base.

42:58So existing gas users were paying in fact lobbyists to send you letters to tell you to, you know, vote against the OEB decision on this. But yes, we can't see those rates and we can't see how much that goes into the costs, but the OEB did weren't warned about stranded assets.

43:11That was one of their concerns is that Enbridge would not in fact recoup the costs from this because the horizon for using gas is is not as long as Enbridge thinks because we're in an energy transition and because the climate crisis is becoming increasingly dire.

43:27Thank you. And actually one last question. Energy transition, you know, energy transition is scary for a lot of a lot of people because it's a it's a once or once in two generation type of thing.

43:37But I think we forget that we've actually done this five times before in the last 100 years we've gone from wood to coal coal to coal gas coal gas to oil and now oil to fossil gas and now fossil gas to heat pumps.

43:51So we're in our fifth energy transition in less than 100 years really. So are you aware of any other utility any other energy system other than than than fossil gas natural gas that has been allowed to have this kind of subsidization like when we transition from oil to natural gas or coal to oil was this level of subsidization for a dying energy system ever part of our previous way of being.

44:22That's a good question and I'm afraid I can't answer, you know, as to whether or not it was in previous cases. I mean, the government of Canada and also all of the OECD countries have committed to phasing out fossil fuel subsidies though,

44:38because we see that there's an uneven playing field because we are favoring the incumbent energy sources the fossil fuel sources and in these cases and we need to be phasing out those subsidies.

44:49Getting rid of this subsidy would be consistent with with that but you know on the energy transition I just think it's important to understand this. Again, as I said it's not a banning of gas.

44:59Though that is what's happening in some jurisdictions and we think we should be talking about that in Ontario that's what they're talking about actually what they're doing in Montreal, what they're doing in the NIMO in Victoria in New York State.

45:10But all this is doing is saying we're not going to be we should not be installing gas as a matter of course in new subdivisions free of charge. The builders need to stop and think about whether they should install gas and they may then decide to put in a heat pump and said, which would save everybody money and of course, much better for the climate.

45:28Okay, so just for clarity if I'm building a new subdivision of 1000 homes and 500 of those homes choose heat pumps over gas. I've got 50% excess capacity is that kind of what what your definition of overbuilt is.

45:45I'm not sure I follow.

45:48I'm building a subdivision 1000 homes and I hook up gas infrastructure for 1000 homes, but half of those homes have heat pumps.

45:58Okay, so the system is overbuilt by 50%. Yeah, and Enbridge is justifying raising the rates under the assumption that all of these people are going to hook up to gas, and they're going to use gas for a long time.

46:11And that's a faulty assumption and that's there's a risk of stranded assets, which is what the OEB said, and that Enbridge is actually behaving irresponsibly from a business perspective as well but that's a that's a separate matter from the decision in front of council today.

46:25That makes it clear. Thanks. Great. And thank you so much for joining us and you have a good day as well.

46:34Thank you for having me. Okay, that's it for delegations. I will move it back to the mover to present the the motion in front of council today and and look for a seconder.

46:51So I know that you'll move it. Councillor Caron.

46:53Yes.

46:55Councillor Allt will second.

46:58And over to you, Councillor Caron. Do you want it up on the screen for you to read?

47:03I do and I I'm worried about my time limit just in case there are questions from my fellow councillor. So I wonder if I could ask you or the clerks or my seconder to to read the preamble in the motion so I don't use up my time.

47:17Yes, I'm happy to put up on the screen and and sorry the clerk is just talking to me just one second.

47:25Through you, Mr. Mayor to the mover, I'm not sure that I have a final copy of the motion submitted. There was a draft copy circulated but if I could get confirmation from the mover of the wording then we can certainly get that pulled up on.

47:36Yes, the one I sent you on March the 14th is the final. Thanks.

47:44It's just coming up by the end. I mean, Councillor Caron. Sorry. So just one second. And let me read it out for you. Okay.

47:55Yeah, we're sorry, Mr. Mayor. I wonder if my if my seconder is willing to use up some of this time that the whereas statements are significant part of the motion.

48:06Sure.

48:07Would you like to read them? Okay. You can go ahead.

48:12Thank you, Councillor Caron.

48:15It's now reading exercise.

48:18I think I have the correct whereas is whereas residents are struggling with energy bill increases in need relief, whereas natural gas is no longer the cheapest way to heat homes because electric heat pumps are now much more efficient can provide all heating needs even in cold

48:35climates and result in far lower energy bills over the long term compared to gas heating. Whereas natural gas is methane gas which is a fossil fuel causing approximately one third of Ontario's greenhouse gas emissions and must be phased out because it's inconsistent with climate targets while heat pumps result in the lowest

48:55G H G emissions and are consistent with zero carbon future. Whereas the Ontario energy board decided to end a subsidy for methane gas pipelines to be built in new construction developments effective 20 25 finding this would lower energy bills for existing gas customers and improve affordability for new home buyers.

49:15But this decision is at risk of being overturned by the provincial government. Whereas the OEB decision will help lower energy bills and encourage heating systems that are consistent with climate targets and plans. Whereas the construction of new methane gas pipelines which have 60 year lifetimes should not be subsidized because they are inconsistent with the city's climate targets and will result in higher carbon emissions, higher energy bills, higher future decarbonizing

49:45and retrofit costs to get off fossil fuel heating and a continued financial drain as dollars leave the province to pay for fossil fuels extracted in other jurisdictions. Whereas Guelph City Council has recognized a climate emergency. Whereas transforming our buildings by supporting actions that improve the energy efficiency in greenhouse gas profile of new buildings within the city is one of the five low carbon transformations that can be made.

50:15And this is one of the five low carbon transformations that can occur. Whereas the City of Guelph is actively working to support the decarbonization of heating and cooling systems which will provide and we have engaged in opportunity to use that.

50:30I think you're reading the wrong one. The one I'm reading is on board five page. Leanne is that that's what I wasn't certain of. Yeah, after my best Bob Munch interpretation to Councillor Caron I apologize it's the only one I have in front of me now.

50:49I've got the other one. Oh, you're wonderful. Okay, so the where where we start going into the city so whereas Guelph City Council acknowledges the climate crisis in May 2019 passed a resolution to support the phase out of gas fired energy plants by 2030 and we made that motion in December 2020 and passed a resolution to support the United Nations race to zero commitment in December of 2021.

51:17Whereas transforming our existing and new buildings by supporting actions that improve the energy efficiency and greenhouse the GHG that's what the motion says profile within the city is a stated goal of our community energy initiative and our official plan and our strategic plan and whereas the City of Guelph is actively working to support the decarbonization of heating and cooling systems and existing and future building stock within the community as demonstrated by the Guelph green homes energy retrofit program.

51:47Which will provide 0% interest loans to golf homeowners to enable them to transition away from fossil fuel powered heating and cooling equipment to low carbon air ground source heat pump systems therefore be it resolved that the City of Guelph expresses its support for the decision of the Ontario Energy Board to end the fossil gas infrastructure subsidy and request that the

52:11Ontario government withdraw bill 165 and allow for the OAB decision to stand and that this resolution be circulated to the President of the Association of municipalities of Ontario Colin Best Premier of Ontario Doug Ford Minister of Energy Todd Smith Minister of Finance Peter Beth Flynn that fall we MPP Mike Schreiner and all of Ontario municipalities requesting support for the proposed changes.

52:42Great thank you to you both. So that sets up the sets it up pretty well there and and so I do mine Councillor Caron I just want to make sure I'm acknowledging and respecting you at this time would you like to continue to address the issue or may I go to council colleagues if they have any questions.

53:01I think questions because I have to use up some of my time for questions.

53:05All right. So are there any questions and you know what as the chair I'm just going to encourage everyone. I think probably everyone might kind of know where they're sitting on this. It is a political statement. This is nothing to do with our staff. We either agree or we don't.

53:25So I would like you know I'd like us to try to get to a vote. Okay. Councillor Gullher.

53:31You worship our comments in order now. There's no questions.

53:37Yes, I'm fine if there's no you have a comment. Okay, any questions then.

53:43Okay, I have one question from Councillor Gibson and then we'll go to comments and I'll start with you. Okay, go ahead. Councillor Gibson.

53:50I don't know if this is for the mover or for staff. Unfortunately, it's related to the building code.

53:57Opposed to Councillor Caron and perhaps staff can weigh in a little bit.

54:02But five years ago I built a home and when I went to the insurance company.

54:09The insurance company asked me What are your heat sources and I said, we have baseball heating and we have propane.

54:16we have propane, we have baseball heating and they said, well, what's your backup?

54:21And I asked the question because they said they needed to have a backup energy source or a backup

54:26heat source at the time. I don't know if that's changed according to the bill code. If you have

54:30two, if you have had some redundancy in your heating, but I do remember back in 2014 or maybe

54:36even earlier, there's a pretty bad winter storm in Guelph and power was knocked out for four or

54:42five days. It was right around Christmas time actually. And that was the time where we were

54:46really thankful for our gas fireplace because it actually heated our house because the electricity

54:49was out. So I guess my question to staff is when it comes to building code, like what is the redundancy

54:55on electric heat? Is there a requirement to have two sources of heat in the home? And if there is so,

55:02what are the options if we're completely removing ourselves from gas and homes?

55:14So through the chair to Councillor Gibson, I'm sorry, I don't have that information on hand.

55:19As the conversation continues, I can try and get some information from staff, but I don't have it

55:24on hand right now, Councillor Gibson. No, that's fine. I expected that and that's been consistent

55:30with staff's comments so far on this motion. They don't have an opinion or recommendation to offer

55:37council. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Okay, thank you. If I could start comments and go ahead,

55:44Councillor Goller, or have you first? Councillor Gabb, this is a point of order.

55:50Yeah, I believe he also addressed it to me as well. And my understanding in my research is no,

55:57and that the heat source and a heat pump isn't electric. The only electric component is the pump

56:01that pumps it through your home. And that the generators, there's other forms of backup,

56:10but that it is not required as my understanding. And I did ask that question when I was doing my

56:14research. Great, thank you. Okay, two comments then before the vote. Go ahead, Councillor Goller.

56:24Thank you for your worship. I just wanted to take a moment to thank all the folks in the

56:28community that wrote letters to us and all the people that came today to delegate and online.

56:34It's really important that we speak up and that we express our opinions. In these cases,

56:40I fully support this motion and I wanted to thank you for your time. Thank you,

56:45thank you. Thank you. Councillor Allt would like to make a comment. Thank you very much,

56:50Mayor Guthrie. And then, Kate and after you, go ahead. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. And like my

56:55colleague, Councillor Goller, I do support this. I am very much concerned about issues associated

57:00with greenhouse gases, but I'm equally concerned about something else that I think runs parallel

57:05to an MZO. And that is the provincial government weighing in on the Ontario Energy Board in a way

57:12that I consider is political rather than something that is institutional and is policy related.

57:20This strikes me as the same sort of thing that we oppose with MZOs and consequently,

57:26I think we owe it to the OEB in this situation to actually take a position.

57:33Great. Thank you. And Kate? Thank you. Through you. The province interfering with a regulatory

57:39board decision is bad policy. Ignoring interfering with the advice of experts is the new normal

57:46across the country. We see it in changing availability for medical options and school

57:50funding in our province and in trans health care policies and other provinces. Doing the right thing

57:56and changing service models to coincide with new learnings is an important part of growth.

58:00And if we want to protect the planet and our health, we need to support policies that meet

58:05those goals. I'm supporting the motions for those reasons. Great. Thank you. And Busatil.

58:14Thank you very much. And thank you to all the delegations. The first one, Samantha Hicks delegation

58:20really resonated with me. And you know, we're all here with the same goal and need in mind. And I

58:25know the community work that I do and public health, that climate change doesn't impact our

58:32community equally. It's disproportionate. And the elderly, the youth, children, our first nations

58:40vulnerable community. And you know, that's not who is making up the decision makers. So that is

58:45really important to me to make a stand on that. The second second piece on this and thank you to

58:50Mr Brooks is around the affordability. I have learned a lot about the OEB and all of this that

58:56I didn't know before. And I will also be supporting the motion. So thank you. Thank you. Is there

59:03anything further? Okay, I'll go to the mover. Yeah, just just rounding things up. And I just

59:11want to thank the delegations and specifically Abigail and Indigo really, really hit home for me

59:16because when I do the math of where they are now in their life cycle, 40 to 60 years, which is the

59:22timeframe for this subsidy, they will be grandparents. And that is significant legacy for the next

59:30generation. And this is being framed as housing versus the environment. When we get the letters

59:35that we we've received from from other organizations building homes that that this is not about

59:41housing versus the environment. I have seen no evidence that the OEB decision to end fossil

59:46gas infrastructure subsidization. And I've been digging, I've been looking for it in order to

59:52be fully informed. There's nothing to support the statement that that is going to impact housing

59:56starts. In fact, I think it's I believe it's the it's going to be the opposite. In my opinion,

1:00:01you know, heat pumps can be installed without multimillion dollar new infrastructure.

1:00:06There's battery backups to address Councillor Gibson's fears. Gas developers don't pay for gas

1:00:15infrastructure. It's not in the DCs. It's directly on the users. This is an economic development

1:00:22issue as much as it's an environmental issue. We need stability, reliability, affordability,

1:00:28and overbuilt infrastructure and rising rates means that our monthly utility bills for the

1:00:33next 40 to 60 years, heat pumps are the solution. The technology we know is widely available,

1:00:41widely proven, and has significant monthly costs for homeowners. And and and as we make the energy

1:00:48transition that isn't this isn't just about homeowners, its businesses and commercial and

1:00:53institution, this is the energy transition that we're in right now. Gas we know from everything

1:00:59I've read is on its downward death spiral. And why would we enable it to be propped up on our bills

1:01:07when we know that it's the dying energy system? This really is our moment. It's our moment to show

1:01:13our community that we're serious about our race to zero 2050 goals. It's it's our moment to make

1:01:20sure that future home ownership and rental are more affordable for those who are living there

1:01:25through monthly utility bills. And it's our moment to show leadership on climate action and economic

1:01:31growth in our city. This motion was designed only to state our support for the OEB decision. And

1:01:39we could have gone much further, we could have put in more direct specific support for other forms

1:01:45of energy or the governance of the OEB. But this is just a decision to support the OEB decision,

1:01:52because as our delegates, some of our delegates told us this was a year long process with loads

1:01:58of research and data behind it. So if it passes, we're going to be joining a number of municipalities.

1:02:06I was on an Ontario Climate Caucus meeting last week, and more and more communities are coming

1:02:11out in support of the OEB decision that that that getting the letter from Enbridge has actually

1:02:18sparked something in our municipal leaders across the province saying that this is this is as we

1:02:25just can no longer go on supporting this this energy subsidy. So I'll leave it in the hands. As you

1:02:30said, Mr. Mr. Mayor, I'm sure everyone kind of knows where they're landing. And I'll leave it in the

1:02:35hands of the vote vote to determine what our council's position is on supporting the independent

1:02:43regulator on their well research decision. Back over to you. Great, thank you. Is there anything

1:02:49further at all? No, okay, well I'll just state my opinion right before the vote then. So I find

1:02:55that this issue is much more complicated and I'm not fully informed on what's actually happening here

1:03:01to the degree that I feel comfortable in voting in favour. So I will not be voting in favour.

1:03:06Also this has been appealed to the OEB board by Enbridge, which is their right. And that appeal

1:03:16has been there's been some staid issues in regards to the OEB decision until the end of April. It's

1:03:23in an appeal process right now for me to give opinions on something I don't feel I'm fully

1:03:29informed on. And there's also an appeal already occurring. I just don't feel appropriate to give

1:03:35my support to something through an appeal process. However, I will state that I agree that the political

1:03:42interference shouldn't have been tabled. On that part I actually agree on. But the OEB decision

1:03:50has a process which includes an appeal, which this is under appeal right now. So for that reason I'm

1:03:56going to let the appeal and let this third party process go. That independence to me to allow

1:04:01that independence of that process to move forward is actually important to me and that's my that's

1:04:07my position. So I'll call the vote and so anyone against please raise your hand. Okay, Chu, Billings,

1:04:18myself and Gibson. Okay, so that passes. Thank you very much.

1:04:23And we are at bylaws now I think. Oh yes, I got to the consent too early. I missed the minutes.

1:04:40The minutes held February 7th, 13th, 14th and 21st of 2024 and the committee the whole meeting

1:04:48held February 6th, 2024 be confirmed as recorded and without being read. Would you be willing to

1:04:54thank you, Councillor Allt and Richardson? Will second that. Is there anything further on the

1:04:58minutes? No. Okay, I'll call the vote. Is anyone against the minutes? Okay, that's unanimous.

1:05:06That passes. Thank you. And then Gibson, we have you with the bylaws please. Yep, thank you

1:05:14through Mr. Mayor. The bylaws 2024-20902 through 2024-20906 and 2024-209030 be approved subject to

1:05:27section 284.114 of the municipal act. Thank you. Gaward, would you be willing to second that? Thank

1:05:36you very much. Any questions on those bylaws? Hearing and seeing none, I'll call the vote.

1:05:42Anyone against the bylaws? No one. Great, that passes as well unanimously. Thank you.

1:05:49And I have no other announcements and so I am just looking for adjournment please.

1:05:56Busatil and Richardson will do that for us and I'll call the vote on adjournment. Anyone against

1:06:02that? Nobody. That passes as well. Just a reminder to my CAO crew, we have our meeting this afternoon

1:06:11in regards to the CAO subcommittee. Okay, so we'll see you for that meeting in a few hours.

1:06:17Great, thank you so much everyone. Take care. Bye-bye.