Accessibility Advisory Committee

0:02I can hear me. I can't hear anyone right now.

0:05I can hear you.

0:06You can hear me, Laura.

0:08Okay, perfect.

0:10And Laura, we do have quorum and you can go ahead and open up the meeting and be like.

0:14Awesome. Thank you so much.

0:16Hello, everyone. Welcome to the April 16th.

0:20AC meeting.

0:23This is the call to order.

0:26First, we'll start with the Indigenous territorial acknowledgement.

0:31As we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in Guelph, a city built over rich Indigenous histories.

0:38We are guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land, the people who live here today, and the generations to come.

0:46If our actions today can move us toward reconciliation, we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

0:53This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time, but more specifically, the Atawanderank and the Haudenosaunee.

1:04This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation.

1:09Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Hadamand tract and is part of the long established traditional hunting ground for the six nations of the Grand River.

1:18Many First Nations, Inuit and Métis people who have come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today.

1:24There's a link in the agenda to learn more about the Indigenous territorial acknowledgement.

1:31So first up, would anyone like to disclose a conflict of interest today? Just raise your hand if so.

1:42I see and hear none.

1:44So moving along, would anyone like to approve the agenda from the last meeting?

1:51I guess I can move that.

1:53Perfect.

1:55And a seconder?

1:58I can.

2:00Awesome, thanks Ted.

2:02And is anyone opposed to that? Looks like not. Okay, perfect.

2:11And then the approval of the minutes from the, oh sorry, the agenda was, to be clear, the agenda was this agenda.

2:18I said the agenda from the last meeting, I think.

2:22Mike and Ted, do you still want to?

2:24Yes.

2:25For like motion and second? Okay.

2:27And is there anyone opposed to the approval of this agenda?

2:30No. Okay.

2:34Perfect. And then the minutes are from the last meeting. Sorry about that.

2:38So to approve the minutes from the last meeting, would anyone like to move?

2:42I'll move it again.

2:44Thanks Mike. And a seconder?

2:52Okay.

2:54Awesome. Thanks Ted. Oh, Elizabeth too. Perfect.

2:57And is anyone opposed to that?

3:00All right. I see and hear none.

3:06So moving on, there is a consent agenda item that, I don't know how this works. This is the first time we've had a consent agenda.

3:17Can staff direct me on what I'm supposed to do at this part of the, sorry.

3:21Yeah. Through the chair to you Lorelai, you can ask members if there is anybody who would like to pull any of the items.

3:29And then that would be placed on the agenda.

3:32If there is no interest in pulling any of the items listed under consent, you can move or you can move forward with that motion that's listed there.

3:46Okay. Thank you so much.

3:48So yes, would anyone like to pull any of these items from the consent agenda?

3:58Looks like not. So would anyone like to move to recommend that the April 16th 2024 AAC Consent Agenda be I that is identified below be adopted.

4:16I see an order. Perfect. Do we have a seconder?

4:23All seconded.

4:24Okay. Awesome. Thanks, Mike. And anyone opposed? Perfect. It looks like that motion carries.

4:32So now we're moving into committee items. And I've never done this before, but I am really invested, especially in this first item as one of the people in the community that is so heavily impacted by it.

4:47So I'm actually going to step down as chair right now. And in order is going to take over chairing the meeting for this item so that I can more fully engage the chairs, usually less able to participate.

5:00So in order, would you like to go ahead and take over?

5:05Okay.

5:07So committee items, 3.1 municipal elections follow up.

5:13So I think that looks like to start. We've got a 10 minute presentation from staff.

5:22So I believe that's where I step in chair Cameron or acting chair Cameron and thanks to you.

5:28And chair root for for having us and to the AC for having us. My name is Stephen O'Brien and the city clerk here at the city of wealth.

5:35We've gone through a series of touch points with the AC so I'm happy to sort of come forward and bring the culmination of that work.

5:44And this is all in relation to the alternative voting methods and accessible voting enhancements for the 2026 election.

5:52First off, I'll say that we really do appreciate all the hard work that this committee has put in over the past year now, and quite frankly beyond working alongside this committee has been very rewarding and engaging for us.

6:06We've had a lot of the discussions we've had as a staff, I'm sure it's informed some of the sessions amongst this committee as well and we hope that you found it to be rewarding and filling in that way as well.

6:17Our involvement with the AC has been beneficial because we've had the opportunity to listen we've listened during the five sessions now that we've had together over the past year and our work thus far has been really in in an attempt to balance the advice that we've heard from this

6:32committee with what we know about the various voting methods that exist in the marketplace at this time and how municipalities may have adopted those.

6:40So how does may have adopted those in that regard. And I think as you well know there is no one size fits all approach for all municipalities.

6:48Many municipalities have different levels of services they offer and we're no different than that.

6:53In that regard, we wanted to acknowledge that we did hear and we do understand the advice that you've offered to Council, and that being to offer all of the five voting methods that we've discussed through the five touch points we've had with you.

7:06And that I want to say that that that is absolutely the role of this committee we value that we appreciate that that's that place for this committee to work. That's why Council has an advisory committee and accessibility advisory committee.

7:18And we will also commit that we will very clearly and transparently provide your recommendations word for word. Council. That's part of our job. That's our duty.

7:28And in fact, our job here today is to share with you what our advice will be to Council. So we want both of those to come forward to Council at the same time.

7:36It means that Council has to make a decision on those things but that's the role that they fulfill in this place and the space as it relates to this topic and so we're looking forward to that.

7:47And so we'll go through some of the things that we've considered over the past year. We started out with with a clean slate open to sort of whatever alternative voting methods came up and evaluating each of those as to as to what might be the best option.

8:00We started by talking to you the AC about possible voting methods we should research. We then reached out to comparative groups and municipalities to hear feedback on the voting methods that they've used the opportunities the challenges the advantages the considerations that they had with all those voting methods.

8:15We reached out to stakeholders in various communities and with communities and customers with various abilities touching base with you along the way as we did that.

8:24We then had the workshop with you in November to listen and understand the perspective that the AC has on on voting methods.

8:31And we received your recommendations in December. That feels like a long time ago, but it wasn't really that long ago.

8:37This past January staff from the city clerk's office sat down and we reviewed each of the five voting alternative voting methods that were we've discussed with this group.

8:45We used all of the information that we have gathered over the past year and we took an analytical approach using a decision making criteria that we develop with the committee.

8:54And we considered obviously the principles of the Municipal Elections Act which were required to uphold and we're beholden to follow those those principles.

9:02We also have to manage as you well know some budgetary considerations, resources requirements, staff capacity, potential risks of various solutions, opportunities that different solutions on both, etc.

9:16And obviously we considered the recommendation of the AC. The two greatest factors that influenced our thinking were primarily focused on reliability and dependability of these various platforms and then subsequently the verifiability of results.

9:30And so those factors as you can imagine are very important for us in the democratic system that we operate in and they're required of us when we look at the principles of the Municipal Elections Act.

9:40Over the past two elections we've seen issues with bandwidth, the servers slowing down. In some cases those servers crashing.

9:48Be that on the part of internet voting vendors or vendors that support the use of a live voter strike off list, which is really critical for us when we do offer internet voting.

9:57Being able to ensure that each vote that comes in is accurate and is what is what is being calculated and tabulated as intended is really paramount for us in considering voting methods.

10:09In the case of voting the appetite and public tolerance for downtime of these interrelated systems and platforms is limited.

10:17And so we expect that the city clerk's office team to maintain integrity of the election in that regard.

10:24We can jump to the next slide. Thanks so much to the city clerk's office staff.

10:32With that said, our recommendation will be as follows. We've shared this in the report.

10:36You've seen before you today. So you can see there that we will propose offering in person voting with accessible voting enhancements on Election Day.

10:46We are approaching Council to ask about other opportunities for us to support access to elections.

10:54And I can share more on that if you have questions or comments.

10:57And if you can jump to the next slide.

11:04I'll wrap up by sharing some of sort of the next next steps of things.

11:08So with all this in mind and along with the work that we've all done over the past year, we're now in a position to prepare a comprehensive report to Council.

11:18That report will include all the information we consider to make our recommendation and what it would take from a staffing capacity and budgetary standpoint to implement each or all or any combination of the five.

11:29We generally hope that our advice and your advice would align. However, in an honest and forthright manner, I recognize that it hasn't.

11:36And that's a difficult time to make.

11:38And I think for us to navigate together, but we are committed to doing that together with you.

11:45Our discussions with you, I don't think have ever been adversarial in any nature. That's certainly not the intent.

11:52We have different opinions and that's perfectly fine and healthy place to be.

11:59I look forward to actually presenting alongside chair room.

12:02Hopefully at when this comes forward to committee of the whole.

12:07What I'll say is we'll prepare that comprehensive report.

12:10We are committed to stating word for word recommendation that you've tabled that the AC has tabled.

12:15We want to make sure that that's upfront and clear in Council's report that we provide.

12:19We'll include links to all of the meeting videos and documentation of a degree of transparency as well.

12:24We want to make sure that we have a comprehensive report.

12:28We'll also include all of the meeting videos and documentation of a degree of transparency as well.

12:32We want members of Council to see minutes and agendas and such.

12:36We'll also transparently include all of the consideration that staff use to come up with our recommendation.

12:41And again, this report is set to come forward on May 7th at committee of the whole.

12:47So again, I'll say this again. I generally do hope that chair Root or members chairing or stepping into that moment joins us at that Council meeting, a committee of the meeting.

12:57And we'll be happy to enter a discussion with Council and hopefully have a balanced discussion around all the options that we considered.

13:03And while I say this might be our last stop with you before that recommendation to Council, we do not see this as the last step in the line in terms of engaging with you on the election.

13:13We hope to continue down this road together as we approach 2026.

13:16We learned from 2022 that we can do more to communicate all of our voting options and enhancements we have things like Braille Sleeves, sent free mass voting opportunities, etc.

13:26And we will be building this out as part of our communications plan around the election writ large as we get closer to 2026.

13:32We're going to share that with stakeholders and community partners that we met through our engagement with you at the AAC and we're committed to ensuring that there's an ample opportunity to receive and work with all the people with all individuals to support independent ballot marking.

13:46We hope to have every enhancement that we can and will strive to obviously communicate and reach out to those who can benefit from those enhancements.

13:54It is our shared job to present the best advice from our perspective and lived experiences to Council so that we can make sure that they're in a good position to make that decision.

14:03And so with that acting chair Cameron and chair Root, I'm happy to turn it back over to the committee answering questions you may have.

14:13And again, just happy to be here. Appreciate you taking time.

14:16Okay, thank you.

14:23Laura Lai.

14:24Hi, thank you.

14:28I'm going to circle Brian. I appreciate you being here again.

14:32I have two questions.

14:36I don't know if you want me to answer them both at once or one at a time. Maybe I'll just ask you the first one and then circle back to the second one if that's okay.

14:44I meant, I meant, I meant your command. So whatever you.

14:49So just for context for any new members of the committee before I ask these questions, I'm one of the members of the city of wealth that can't vote independently with the current options that have been listed.

15:00I haven't been able to independently vote since 2014. So I've been involved in advocating for this since 2014. So I feel like click at O'Brien and I go way back on this at this point.

15:11Okay, but it is getting it is getting exhausting and very difficult to keep having a conversation to try and fight for what I believe should be such a such a protected right of mine.

15:24So one of the things that has happened in the past number of years, it was when we were discussing the last election is I knew that council and staff were not super comfortable with verifiability and dependability of online voting.

15:38So I went away and did hundreds of interviews with people who live all over North America, interviewed different vendors different people working at different levels of government in the United States and Canada, and found this other option called remote accessible vote by mail that is posted on the AWS cloud.

15:58So I think that's a very important thing to do store our top, like, I believe the federal government uses AWS to store their most critically confidential documents but I know for sure the Department of Homeland Security, the CIA use it.

16:13It's a very secure way to store the voter information. It's also verifiable because every ballot is a paper ballot that is has a signature that can be traced back.

16:26I'm wondering how you came to the conclusion that none of the options we pushed for were those things when by industry standards they are, and also by just just human standards.

16:39The current options are not dependable reliable or verifiable like my last option to vote in the last election was to have my ex boyfriend who had just broken up with me 40 minutes prior, mark my ballot for me and I had to hope he did it correctly, or I could have asked a stranger, working at the

16:56ballot to help me mark my ballot and hope they marked it correctly and I've never been able to verify those results so the first time I felt safe and secure with my vote was when there was online voting in 2014.

17:08So I'm just curious about that data around dependable reliable and verifiable, because I'm really surprised to hear that.

17:16Sure, I'll take a stab at I've got with me, Jennifer Slater and Kerry Murray Sprig from the clerks office so they can buy wings if I if I miss anything they can certainly jump in but through you acting chair Cameron to member root.

17:31Thank you so so much for the question.

17:33First off, and I do appreciate all the discussions we've had member root because I think it's really informed a lot of the things that that we've contemplated over the years to answer your question you're I think you're quite right and you are actually more of an expert I think that I am on the Web world you know about AWS and such.

17:51I know that the internet world is built predominantly on three three clouds service providers AWS being one, the Google cloud and the other being Microsoft Azure is sort of the three kind of leading market providers for the internet that we see and interact with today.

18:10I'm sure I'm missing a couple but those are the big the big players.

18:13Our challenge is less with the hosting of something like AWS and more with the vendors that we use in and around things like live order strike off.

18:22So when we issue a ballot for example to someone in the 20 I'll use the 2014 election as a as a context point when we issued a ballot for someone in the an elector in the 2014 election, an internet voting ballot.

18:35We require them to verify who they were against that live holders list that we have it's a it's a vendor it's a sole vendor that provides us that like that voting list solution.

18:45They are but one of of, I think they are the only one others in the marketplace in Ontario that offers that service.

18:53And we simultaneously strike the elector off the list when we issued their ballots so the ballot is issued we strike them off it's akin to if they were in person.

19:02And then the then the elector proceeds with that that digital ballot they market they submitted it and that's sort of where we ended in 2018 or in 2022.

19:13We saw that vendor of that live voters list solution sees similar bandwidth problems to the internet voting vendor that we saw in 2022.

19:23Now 2022 or 2018 sorry, we didn't have online voting, but those municipalities that did have online voting same vendor we had in 2014 saw the need to extend election by a day.

19:35They had to stop receiving ballots they extended voting to the to a later date.

19:39In 2022, we actually saw slowing in the live order strike off system, because of bandwidth issues.

19:47Now that might be with third party vendors that may have been with folks like AWS, whether they were given priority bandwidth panel or channels, etc.

19:55Through those online voting through the voting systems and the and the the backbone internet systems like AWS.

20:02Our challenge was that we saw the live order strike off slow considerably for us in 2022.

20:08And in other municipalities it actually stopped all out and voting locations weren't able to process electors whether they were in person locations or online voting locations and the RABB solution as you know member rude the front end of that system is is based effectively on an internet voting system.

20:26You're quite right that it turns out a paper ballot on the back end, but on the front end we've got to deliver effectively a digital ballot to an elector so that they can market and then create that ballot in in live paper form.

20:39And so the ability to strike off an elector and have confidence and reliability and dependability in that striking off system without seeing limitations to it.

20:49That's where we've seen issues and we've seen sort of punctuations in challenges in the 2020 election 2018 with the internet voting vendor that many municipalities use across the province and in 2022 punctuation sort of an issue on the live orders list strike off.

21:09So it's it's it's less about it's somewhat about the platform that they're delivered through, but it's also the vendor and and the tool the platform that they choose to use to deliver those, and we're beholden to whatever platform or tool they use is that AWS is the Azure is that any number of other cloud providers and so that was a large concern

21:28it so much so that it it led to significant challenges in nearby municipalities such as the city of Hamilton as an example so that was our concern around the dependability and such is the linkage with the live voter strike off system less to do with the internet voting platform like it was in

21:452018 but both of those things have really formed the opinion that we have now the 2018 experience we saw in other municipalities and the 2022 experience we saw in other municipalities and we ourselves had to deal with we were slowed in the morning of this most recent election in 2022.

22:07Okay.

22:08I find that frustrating still because it still is a far more reliable system than the one I'm being offered.

22:15And it also, I mean there is fallibility in every single voting option. If somebody goes to the ballots and pulls a fire alarm, for example, you know we have to or if there's a power outage that's happened there have been other reasons that voting has slowed and also internet voting does not always cause things to slow

22:35down.

22:36And so I think that everything has fallibility so that's to me not a good enough reason just on the record I want to say I don't think that's a good enough reason to deny people like me, the ability to vote independently and securely, but anyways, my other questions sorry actually a chair camera

22:52is it okay if I ask another question I don't want to take up all the time.

22:56Yeah, you go ahead I see no other hand here.

22:59We have a hand up in the room as well.

23:01Oh, sorry.

23:04I'll just move my question and then move to the next one.

23:07Chair Cameron, is that alright.

23:09Yeah.

23:10Thank you.

23:12My other question is just around all the meetings that we had this year. I, as I said, I think I misspoke, but I've been involved in discussions around this since 2018.

23:21And I have not seen any change in city staff's opinion on this matter, aside from a backslide away from accessibility we've seen fewer accessibility options over the years.

23:35And looking at this report I'm seeing it looks very similar to what we were told clerks was planning on doing before we had those five additional meetings.

23:44I'm just wondering, I don't mean this in an adversarial way at all, but I am just wondering what all of those meetings.

23:52You said you found them very fruitful and very, I haven't found them fruitful I have found them.

23:58Borderline offensive in how some of them have been run I think we've talked about that in some of the AC meetings, but also I have found them very difficult to navigate.

24:12It's a lot of emotional labor to show up and repeatedly advocate for your own rights and repeat the same things over and over and be asked the same questions over and over and see the same PowerPoint presentations over and over.

24:24So, and I mean, I mean no disrespect at all I promise I'm not coming from an adversarial place I'm just curious.

24:30My question is what has changed from the clerk's perspective what did you gain from those five meetings because it's not reflective in this report.

24:38As far as I can see.

24:41Thank you and through you I can share Cameron to member root.

24:45I'm an empathetic and I want you to know that I understand and I hear what you're saying, and I by no means take it as as you know in any way offensive so I want you to know that I hear you and I appreciate the comments and I'm I welcome them at any time.

24:59I think some of the things we did learn to answer your question some of the things we did learn is what other enhancements can we offer that aren't voting methods related per se.

25:09We know that that Braille sleeves will be beneficial for for members in our community.

25:14We know that set free locations and mass locations will be beneficial.

25:19We're looking for example to making City Hall of vote anywhere location on Election Day where we can staff that location with with folks that are more specifically trained to support all members of the community in in receiving folks that want to come in and vote on that day in that location.

25:35So we're we're sort of terming those as accessible voting enhancements.

25:40So they do exist.

25:43Admittedly outside of the scope of of alternative voting methods but that's an example we're also exploring the potential of.

25:51Removing barriers to access only locations from a transit access standpoint or a or a parking location standpoint here at City Hall.

25:59So we're trying to make getting to a location easier and then once once a person is out of location.

26:06You know and if they choose to avail themselves for example just using that one example of City Hall being sort of like a central hub to receive any any any voter on Election Day regardless of the work that they live in.

26:16We're hoping that those kind of services that we offer allow for.

26:21Reduced barriers to voting in that in that location so those are some of the things we heard.

26:26I would say the other thing we heard is we got some great intel from the AC about what community groups we should be engaging with what other what other agencies and service providers and.

26:36Groups in the community that that can help inform some of those accessible voting enhancements that we talked about.

26:42And so those are those are two examples of things we absolutely did take concretely from the discussions we had with you.

26:48And I do think that's been valuable.

26:50I think there's a handful of those organizations that we've received names for and we've reached out to and that's been beneficial for us.

26:56Okay, thank you.

26:59All of those things still leave people like me and others like me.

27:03Unable to independently vote so I still don't think that that's acceptable but I understand and I appreciate your answer.

27:10Thank you.

27:11Thank you.

27:17I was gonna see maybe I could briefly add to that before I move on.

27:21I appreciate someone else has a question.

27:25Through you chair Cameron.

27:27I also just want to reflect I appreciate that.

27:31Not seeing the input that you have provided to us in the outcome can certainly feel like we're not listening and I certainly recognize and appreciate that perspective.

27:39Where I will say I think we have moved a good way together is in longer term discussion, finding better times and ongoing discussion with committee and involvement when they should be involved and how early they should be involved.

27:52And really, ultimately, the staff recommendation much like the AC's recommendation is part of what's being brought forward to council.

28:01We aren't the decision maker in this and we certainly hope and are open to feedback and thoughts from the committee on, you know, we've transparently shared the costing of every option so for outlining maybe something is an in current budget.

28:13Well, that's up for council decision to add any resources to necessarily do that so really through this process.

28:20Regardless of what the staff recommendation is our hope is to be providing, you know, as upfront as transparent and all the information that council needs in order to be making that decision and we've moved a long way with that and certainly looking forward to to presenting with with the chair as well as

28:35part of that which is a new process for us, you know, rather than coming forward as a delegate, having, you know, the opportunity for council to hear from both the committee and staff in an equivalent way.

28:45So moving that process forward I think has been very helpful and has hopefully changed and formed the decision that council will make in a better way. So certainly we're open to feedback and thoughts on that as well.

28:57Just responding to that response really quickly. That is the same response we've gotten from the past two elections we've been told, well we're not going to do it this time but this has been really great for us as a city to hear from you.

29:08We are going to engage with you sooner next time we are going to engage with you more next time. Maybe you'll get to see it in the next election. So it gets frustrating to repeatedly hear that same response.

29:19Respectfully, it just does get more frustrating and it also doesn't feel like we have equivalent presentation in front of council.

29:28When I go delegate I'm given five minutes to quickly speak on behalf of 15 people and, or at least in the past, in past years I've always been cut off at five minutes I've been told by the mayor directly I have only five minutes to speak.

29:40I think recently, I think Liz said that maybe that's not correct and we should have equivalent time but that's another issue.

29:48I think respond to that but I'll mention that at the end sorry to interrupt Chair Cameron.

29:52Okay, so I believe we've got another question from Mike.

30:00Yeah, so you were talking about the cost of like hardware and like kind of bandwidth.

30:06Did you mention Google in that?

30:12Yes, so I just mentioned that my big question was Chair Rueb was mentioning that AWS Amazon Web Services is sort of a backbone of the internet.

30:23We know today there's generally two other big sort of providers of internet hosting solutions than those being Microsoft Azure and Google Cloud.

30:33So it's not so much that it would cost us our vent our cost for vendors like that live order strike off list I mentioned like an internet voting platform quite frankly like even an RAVVM system would still be there would still be a cost associated that was for us to procure and use that that vendor services.

30:50It's very likely that those vendors are relying on AWS Azure Google Cloud etc to host the services that they offer and what we've seen in past elections that was sort of was trying to allude to in 2018 the challenge was the internet voting vendor that we actually used in 2014 didn't have internet voting in 2018.

31:09That vendor you presumably had their their system sitting on one of those those back those providers and there was a reduction in the bandwidth that saw many electors not be able to cast a ballot using the online platforms in those municipalities.

31:24The same held true in 2022.

31:26We saw sort of a significant slowing hearing wealth of our voting locations being able to process electors in live in person and we know that other municipalities in 2022 didn't necessarily experience a slowdown it full on stop they were not actually able to what we call process electors basically strike them off the voters list.

31:45And that's problematic for us in an online voting environment because when we give you a ballot we need to strike you off the list so that you're able to cast your ballot but not to not to say that you would do this in any way but so that you can't then go vote elsewhere because you get one vote right.

32:01And so that live order strike off list is fundamental and foundational to that trust that needs to be in place in elections so we saw it slow.

32:09So my question is to that is that a matter of manpower or technology happening at that time.

32:16That's an issue in my in my analysis of a technology limitation.

32:20So it's it's a it's an issue with those vendors and the cloud based internet solution systems that they have that are back in systems to the systems that we operate.

32:33Let's say just because like we live so close to a major Google hub we're near a major fiber optic line.

32:39Does that kind of play into this at all.

32:42Do you check Cameron know I don't know if it does because what we've seen is it impacted places like Hamilton.

32:47It impacted us in in in Guelph in 2022.

32:51Again we didn't see a crashing of that live voter system like other municipalities did but we know other municipalities that use that same vendor for live voter strike off.

33:01They saw significant slowdowns like we did and in some cases a complete stopping of their ability to strike off elect.

33:09Now is that because of the size of that municipality vote because Hamilton significantly larger than Guelph.

33:15Yeah through you to Cameron that's a good question.

33:17I think the reality is it impacted a whole bunch of different municipalities.

33:20We know it was Hamilton.

33:21We certainly experienced it not to the same extent as a Hamilton.

33:25Other municipalities experienced it.

33:27Some small ones were brought sort of to a complete stop like Hamilton was other larger ones larger than us experienced a similar situation to us where it was just a significant slowing of our ability to process a lot here.

33:39So it's I don't want to use a bit of a craft analogy but it's almost half of it doesn't want to succeed or it didn't really it was agnostic about size of municipality.

33:47Okay.

33:48Yeah.

33:49If I may.

33:50Is there a reason that advanced polls couldn't help alleviate strain on the server.

33:58Good question chair Cameron and you're quite right we often we often hope and want more people to come out and vote in advance polls.

34:07Unfortunately, people still choose to vote on election day predominantly so if I use the 2022 example chair Cameron.

34:15We still had the vast majority of electors cast a ballot on on election day.

34:20And so as a result of that it's difficult for us to steer people specifically to advance like we have to give the ability for people to access voting whenever they you know within the conference but we've determined and established whenever they so choose whether that's the first day of advanced voting the last day of advanced voting or within the last hour on election day.

34:40They still need to be able to have the opportunity to cast a ballot at any point that they choose within the within the days that we offer.

34:48Excuse me chair we have Chris has his hand up in the room as well just you know.

34:54Thank you I just want to get verification from you lower line well.

34:58What was the actual last time you were able to vote if you're comfortable sharing that information.

35:07Yeah certainly for me independently being able to vote was 2014 2018 and 2022 both didn't have online voting we are the only municipality in Ontario.

35:18I believe in all of Canada to remove online voting as an accessible option, although we were one of the first to offer it.

35:25I think we're still the only ones who took it away.

35:27So just trying to piece together right it's been 10 years with little blips in between there where you've been able to vote independently.

35:36I'm still having these discussions that's correct.

35:40Yes, I think I got involved in the conversation after 2014 because 2014 was such a win for me.

35:49The way that that hits me is that that's pretty.

35:56It acts like a gap, you know, a lot of the program program that could go into providing for that level of voting.

36:02I'm thinking that if our chair at the AC and Guelph hasn't had the ability to vote independently continuously for those past 10 years, then there's something fundamentally wrong with that system.

36:16And no matter how many conversations we have about what is going to be put in place in terms of neither a night I think that somewhere that gets lost the next day the real urgency for all of us to have that level of autonomy.

36:29When we vote and for myself I can do it for the people that can do it but for other people they can't and so on.

36:35So it becomes a conversation that kind of gets wired down in the perspective of accommodation and accessibility but this is actually human rights issue.

36:42Everything that we face in our lives is a human rights issue but it's all been brought down to an accommodation and accessibility issue.

36:48So 10 years is a long time to have that happen. I just like I don't usually get this aggravated.

36:5410 years is an extremely long time to have that happen.

36:57And if I'm coming in I miss two meetings if I'm coming in and I'm hearing this first off the boat or first off the mark and I'm getting frustrated.

37:06My wonder is why people aren't more frustrated with this.

37:11I'm sorry that wasn't a question it was a comment but I just want to air my frustrations with that. My apologies.

37:20Okay do we have any other questions or like.

37:28I don't have a question but I do have some motions that I wanted to put forward on this topic.

37:33I don't know if this is a good time to do that or not but if so I did email them ahead of time to Sarah.

37:40I have two motions. One is regarding just asking if we have to we have to make a motion for who we would like to go speak to City Council about this.

37:50And then also just what our actual recommendation is.

37:54The motion of our actual recommendation I kind of wrote it based on all of the feedback from those five meetings we've been in.

38:00We've had pretty unified recommendations at the end of each one of those meetings so it's pretty much just that same recommendation again.

38:09I don't know if you can pull it up on the screen so everyone can see it Sarah.

38:12If that's sorry if that's an okay time to make that motion.

38:15Yeah we can look at that now.

38:20Just a moment here working with clerks to get that up on the screen.

38:25Thank you.

38:26Just wondering what you mean sorry.

38:37The one from our line according to you there.

38:40This one.

38:41No.

38:42Sorry.

38:43There's two new ones that the clerks did not receive anything.

38:47I just had them talk.

38:49Okay.

38:50We pulled down Joey sorry we just received it by email so we'll add that to the presentation.

38:55Maybe by May chair Cameron just because chair we also had a question about the time to present just while staff are maybe pulling those those those recommendations you said in chair room.

39:05I'm happy to have you alongside us at the May 7th meeting.

39:13In the case of chairs of advisory committees, you're not there as a delegate.

39:20You're there as you know, alongside staff.

39:24So the way that other committees advisory committees in some cases have seen this happen is staff will present the staff report.

39:31It's obviously before the committee and then you're given the same sort of standing at that committee of the whole meeting to be able to present and share the discussions that you've had as an AC the perspective of the AC present the motion that you table to speak to the motion that was adopted at the last meeting, etc, etc.

39:50So I'm hopeful that you'll be there.

39:53I understand that it's it may not fit your schedule and if there's another member of the AC that wants to attend on your behalf that's fine too but we welcome any member joining us alongside the staff presentation.

40:08That's another issue that should be maybe addressed because the whole time I've been on the AC.

40:13I've been told that a couple of times and I've always shown up and been told at the meeting actually you only have five minutes, just like other delegates so that's just a couple of times I've been able to get additional time because of my screen reader but sometimes that request has even been declined because it's at the

40:29discretion of the mayor whether or not that goes through.

40:33That's frustrating too if other committees have always had their delegates get a normal amount of time it's weird that we have never had that.

40:41Yeah forgive me chair Cameron and through you to member route no that's this is this is a this has been in policy now for a couple of years now so it's not something that dates back forever ago for example it's not like any number of other committees.

40:57Prior to the AC had had this this opportunity it's something that's now been before we we recognize at some point when we had updated some of the administrative policies around advisory committees that that was a gap that that advisory committee chairs predominantly chairs doesn't always have to be

41:11predominantly chairs have the should have the ability opportunity to present alongside staff as part of a staff presentation where there's been considerable engagement and discussion with the committee like like we've had a few months time.

41:26Okay, even in the last couple of years though I've delegated in front of on behalf of about playgrounds and things and been told I have five minutes but that's good to know moving forward I'll just advocate harder at the meetings and say actually I don't have just five minutes.

41:42I can read off the oh it's up never mind I was going to say I have it if somebody wants me to just read it out what I said did.

41:50Um, chair Cameron would you like me to just read my emotions out loud.

41:56Sure.

41:58Okay, the first one is that the AC does not support the staff recommendation that vote from home and vote by mail be offered as the only alternative voting methods for the 2026 election.

42:09I think that this leaves insurmountable barriers to accessibility and denies many members of the community access to a confidential independent and verifiable voting method.

42:19Failure to provide a voting method to disabled individuals serves to disenfranchise a vulnerable population.

42:25The AC recommends that Council move forward with online voting and remote accessible vote by mail as the main alternative voting options with vote from home and vote by mail remaining available as supplementary accessible options.

42:38So that just comes from the workshops and meetings we've had that's kind of been at the end when we recap everyone's feedback. We say we want online and remote accessible and that everything else as a supplementary option should still remain.

42:52The second motion is just that the AC recommends that I present our opinions alongside clerks at the Council meeting, but I guess I'll move the first one first if that's okay.

43:04So we've got a move for the motion. Do we have a seconder second that Mike in the room a second it.

43:12So what.

43:16Okay.

43:18Chair Cameron now you just have to see if there are any opposed any opposed.

43:27And if you see in here none you just.

43:30I see none.

43:35That motion can carry.

43:37Okay motion has been carried.

43:41And Laura, I was second.

43:44Yeah, the second motion was just that the AC recommends that chair route present their opinions on accessible voting options to Council at the May 7 2024 Council meeting.

43:53It doesn't have to be me if someone else would rather do it. But I'm very happy to do it and I'm eager to do it. So,

44:00I'll second that motion as chair route presenting.

44:06Okay.

44:07Seconder any opposed.

44:14I see none.

44:21That's carried.

44:22That's carried.

44:29I think that's it for this item then.

44:34So I will pass things back to chair route.

44:40Um, actually in order would you feel comfortable chairing the next item as well. You don't have to I can, but I could use a breather.

44:48Yep.

44:49I know that wasn't planned, but if you're okay with that it.

44:52Okay, thank you.

44:53Okay, 3.2 downtown waste project design guidelines we've got a five minute presentation from the staff.

45:05Yeah, thank you. Should I share the slides from my screen.

45:17Um, we can have the clerks share for you if you'd like.

45:20Sure, why don't we do.

45:33Okay, thanks very much. So my name is Robertson Reed. I'm a project manager in solid waste and I've been working on the downtown waste project.

45:48So anyone who's been downtown in the last few years have noticed there are issues with the waste collection, which is what this project is seeking to action.

45:58So there's the accessibility issue of many containers, fallen over containers, blocking sidewalks, blocking bus stops, those types of things.

46:09There's a cleanliness issue in terms of waste on the ground, pest odors, things of that nature.

46:14And there's a waste diversion issue in that because of this situation, things are not getting to where they need to be within the waste system.

46:22So this was studied quite extensively in the solid waste master plan, which was done in 2021.

46:30There was some involvement from the AC in that process.

46:34And the essential recommendations from the solid waste management master plan were to take the waste generated downtown and try and split it into two streams.

46:43Those two streams being about 90% that comes out of the buildings, so from businesses and residents and about 10% that's coming off the street from people who are visiting buying coffee, choose things like that, and manage them with appropriate infrastructure.

47:00So the guideline that is in front of us now is really moving that idea forward and saying, if this is the infrastructure we'd like to install,

47:11let's make sure that when we go out to market and find actual products that we can use to install, that these meet all the accessibility requirements that we want.

47:21So both things that have been identified in the facility accessibility design manual already and new things that came up because they weren't quite covered by that document.

47:32So for just broadly, the public space container, the design that is being contemplated and will be going to market to find option four.

47:42So the current containers are those mushroom shaped ones. They're dull, gray, green and blue colored. They move around.

47:50The proposed system would have fixed locations so you know where they're going to be. There's always three together.

47:56They'll use smaller openings that can accept waste from the pedestrian realm but not large bags.

48:03And they'd be more clearly colored and marked to be able to tell which stream is which.

48:09And then for the waste coming from buildings, those would be managed in a few different options depending on things like space available through the downtown infrastructure renewal,

48:20as well as budget available, which is a new thing, but some of the options would be a communal underground container system.

48:28So this would be something new to the downtown. This system uses a small part that comes out of the ground that looks about the size of a normal waste container, but a large part underground.

48:39Or we can also rely on an expansion of the existing cart based system to have buildings have one cart that's accessible or accountable to them.

48:49They'd be responsible for storing and cleaning just like a resident would.

48:58Just to review some of the additional requirements that we've pulled out in addition to what's in the facility accessibility design manual that we thought were important.

49:10So there's the requirement to have three streams together at all times fixed locations so people can find containers, common products.

49:18So we have the same containers used throughout the downtown and people know what to expect in terms of distribution, looking at finding a standard amount of spacing.

49:28So we don't have sidewalks crowded, but it's also a reasonable distance to find the container.

49:33And what we have written in right now is for those public space containers, you'd be using if you're walking around downtown, having something within 25 to 50 meters of wherever you are.

49:44And then for those larger containers handled by the buildings, if it's that communal option between 50 to 100 meters of each property.

49:51So when they go out at the end of the day, that's how far they'd have to move if they're using that system.

49:57We looked at requirements not to interfere with things like transit stops and mobility transit, visibility.

50:08So when people are accessing containers, they're able to be in safe, well-lit places, good maintenance.

50:16And then there are a few things that we pulled directly out of the facility accessibility design manual where analogs exist, relating to things you're familiar with, transitions and labeling, protrusions and those types of things.

50:31So the input we're looking for here is whether we've missed anything in our consultations with staff that are important other requirements that you'd like us to consider before we go to market and say, hey, what products are out there that meet our needs.

50:46So with that, I'll be happy to take any questions about what we're proposing and any suggestions that we can add in a resolution.

50:55And we have on record that the AC is recommending that we add those considerations in when we go and see what products are out there.

51:04Thank you.

51:06You have a hand up in the room.

51:08Chris.

51:10Okay, Chris, go ahead.

51:14I'm just wondering, thank you for that presentation. I'm wondering if there's any push-pull requirements for these new containers, such as pushing a lid open to put a piece of garbage in or having to turn your hand over 360 degrees or 180 degrees to put something in that people might find difficult.

51:30So I just...

51:33Yeah, great question. So for the... So we're talking about two kinds of containers. So for the public space containers, the requirement we've written is there's no obstruction to the opening.

51:43So it would be a small open hole with nothing to push against or anything to touch.

51:49And then if we go with those communal container options, we've just taken the same requirements basically for using a handle on a door or anything else from the facility accessibility design manual.

52:01So we've just copied those over essentially for any, you know, the design of the handle as well as the force required to open them up.

52:10There's the requirement to be able to do it with one hand only.

52:15I think those are all the things I took out of the FADM for that one. Does that address your concern?

52:21Yeah, that does. Thank you very much for that.

52:23Thank you.

52:29Okay, Donna.

52:35Okay, is my mic working now?

52:37Yep, you are good.

52:40Is there any kind of schematic or a design of what it might look like and what these containers will look like and what it might look like in place on a city street?

52:54Yeah, I can...

52:57I don't know if Clerx is able to share in the report itself there are two figures we could pull out for you.

53:04The specifics we would only determine like once we go to market.

53:08So, but there are some illustrative examples.

53:11I don't know if Clerx can show it or I have the report open here. I can just show you quickly.

53:16No, that's okay. That information was in the report.

53:20Okay.

53:21Okay, so if you refer to the report, there's a few illustrative examples there, but essentially we will get what we ask for.

53:29So we'll actually be able to evaluate once we do this process.

53:33Okay.

53:35Thanks.

53:36Thanks.

53:43Okay, anyone else?

53:45Okay.

54:04Can help you here, Chair Cameron. There are two recommended motions that can stop here.

54:10The AC can choose to adopt both one, add two, and they're up on the screen there at the moment.

54:18So if you are... if the AC is aligned with these recommended motions and we would just go through the process to get a mover, the seconder, and then you would check to see if there are any in post.

54:29Okay.

54:35More line?

54:41Just for clarification, is there a moment after moving and seconding where we have some discussion just so that if I move something that people are really opposed to, they have a... is that how it works or when is the discussion time supposed to happen?

54:52Through the chair to member Root. Yes. So in order to discuss what recommendation you'd like to put on the floor, you need to move or a seconder and then the floor is open to discussion and debate on that specific recommendation.

55:08And then we can call the vote.

55:11Okay. Perfect. So I would like to move the first one because I believe that that is in line with what I just heard in the meeting. But before you ask for, if anybody's opposed and called the vote, I'd like... I'm hoping someone will speak up if they disagree with that.

55:26Because I think I heard that we all sound like we would be fine with proceeding. But if I'm misrepresenting, let me know.

55:39You're looking for a seconder at this point here.

55:43Oh, right. Sorry. I guess we need a seconder for that. And then we'll...

55:47Elizabeth, so that... and any opposed?

55:57Just before you call the vote. Do you mind if I discuss it really quick, actually, before you ask if anyone's opposed?

56:06Okay.

56:07I just want to make sure...

56:08The opposed, that's the vote that comes later?

56:12Yeah. Opposed comes right after we discuss it. If anyone wants to discuss, the only discussion I want to have is just make sure that I'm understanding correctly that everybody feels that way.

56:21Because that's the vibe that I was getting. And I feel that way. But I want to make sure nobody in the room is like, no, I very much think we need to add this thing.

56:29Because then we can write the second motion easily instead.

56:38Yeah.

56:39But it looks like maybe nobody feels that way. So, yeah, sorry. I'm good now.

56:47Okay. So no discussion or amendments. So that brings us to the vote there. So, okay. Any opposed?

56:54I'm seeing none.

57:04Motion carries.

57:05So the motion is carried.

57:07We can move on to the next. I know I'm there, Chair Cameron. If you would like to pass it back to Chair Root.

57:22We will pass it back to Chair Root.

57:26Move on to 3.3.

57:29Thank you so much.

57:31Thank you so much.

57:33I appreciate that. I didn't think that through, but I needed a breather after the last, I got so involved in the last discussion.

57:43Thank you so much to staff for coming for that waste water presentation.

57:50Okay, so the next item 3.3 is a Guelph Transit

57:55introduction of chime sounds on the conventional buses.

57:58We have Laura Catalano Braggs.

58:01Catalano Braggs, I'm sorry if I've said that wrong.

58:03Feel free to correct me.

58:04We have a five minute staff presentation

58:06and then we have time to discuss as the AAC.

58:10Wonderful.

58:11Laura Catalano Braggus, it is a mouthful.

58:13So do not worry.

58:16Do not worry, Chair Root.

58:18My name is Laura.

58:19I'm the supervisor of scheduling and service planning

58:21with Guelph Transit.

58:23We do have a presentation.

58:25Is it possible I can share my screen?

58:27I don't know if it is already available to share,

58:32but I am also going to be sharing my screen after.

58:35So I think what I might do is I might share myself

58:39and then I can also present the chimes

58:44that are up for consideration and discussion today.

58:47That sounds great.

58:48Go ahead and share your screen.

58:50Okay, thank you.

58:52All right.

58:54Now sometimes when I go in presentation mode,

58:56it will change the screen that I actually want it to look at.

58:59So please let me know if it is looking at my notes screen

59:03for some reason.

59:05Sorry, Laura.

59:06Is it okay if the clerk's office shares

59:08just because there were some,

59:10this isn't the version that was published online.

59:13So we just want to make sure it's accessible.

59:15Yes, not a problem.

59:17Not a problem at all.

59:20There you go.

59:29Okay.

59:31So a little backstory.

59:34Guelph Transit, we have two types of messaging

59:37on our vehicles.

59:38We have internal and external announcements

59:41that tell you your route and information

59:43along with your next stop information.

59:45And we also have something called priority messages

59:47that the operator chooses to play.

59:50So Guelph Transit is planning to implement a chime sound

59:54that will play before priority messages.

59:56And a priority message is a message played

59:59by the operator on board to provide information

1:00:01to a customer or to customers

1:00:03or request an action from customers.

1:00:06So specifically included in this,

1:00:11I will also just read out what those priority messages are

1:00:15before we get into the details.

1:00:17Here are some examples of what you may hear

1:00:19on conventional service.

1:00:21Please fill all seats.

1:00:22If standing, please move back as far as possible.

1:00:26Headphones are required for telephone calls,

1:00:28video calls, music and games.

1:00:31Quietly use cell phones only when necessary.

1:00:34So these announcements do not play regularly

1:00:37or at each stop.

1:00:39They're only used when an operator chooses

1:00:41to actually play them.

1:00:43And we're looking to introduce that chime sound

1:00:47before that priority message plays.

1:00:51Now, one thing I did wanna note,

1:00:53we had previously discussed,

1:00:55we were only able to come in April to speak with you folks.

1:00:58We previously discussed this and introduced the idea

1:01:00to the Transit Advisory Committee last month,

1:01:04where once they heard one sample,

1:01:07they said they'd like to hear more than one sample

1:01:10as options for consideration

1:01:13that on our display sign right now,

1:01:15it just has the priority message that goes across it.

1:01:19Their suggestion was also to add either an asterisk,

1:01:23a star with the word important in the title itself

1:01:27to visually capture people as well

1:01:29in terms of a priority message.

1:01:32But that's why we're coming today for you folks

1:01:35with three options to hear,

1:01:37which we wanna hear your feedback on

1:01:39and understand from the AAC's perspective

1:01:42on what this chime means.

1:01:46Now, in terms of, if we can go to the next slide,

1:01:49that would be great.

1:01:51I wanna talk about what changes and what doesn't change.

1:01:55So what does the chime sound like?

1:01:56We're gonna listen to the options.

1:01:58There is room for consideration

1:02:00in terms of what that sound is.

1:02:02So if it is something today, I'm interested in,

1:02:06there are in those three different options,

1:02:08we'll kind of dig into that in our time.

1:02:10Now, what is not going to change?

1:02:12And I feel like this is important to highlight

1:02:14as we go through it.

1:02:16As the chime is only intended to be added

1:02:18to priority messages,

1:02:19there are several things that will not be changing.

1:02:22Our next stop announcement will not change.

1:02:25The chime will not play prior to these announcements.

1:02:28And that happens every single stop.

1:02:30The next stop written information

1:02:32that you see inside the vehicle will not change.

1:02:34The display will still show visually

1:02:37what is being said audibly.

1:02:39And the priority message that's written

1:02:41when a priority message is pressed by the operator

1:02:43will not change.

1:02:44The display will still show visually

1:02:47what is being said audibly.

1:02:48So the only change is that introduction

1:02:50of the chime in front.

1:02:52Now, in order to play the chime,

1:02:54I believe that I have to share my screen

1:02:57and share my audio in order for it to be heard on the call.

1:03:00So I am going to share my screen now

1:03:03so that I can share those three options with you folks.

1:03:11Let's see if I can get this right.

1:03:16We aren't hearing your end of the audio.

1:03:19Okay, here is chime one.

1:03:25Did it play?

1:03:27Yep, it played.

1:03:29It played, okay.

1:03:29I don't hear it in my headphones.

1:03:31Yeah.

1:03:33And I can repeat these for anybody that needs

1:03:37to hear them again, that is not a problem.

1:03:39Chime two, was that heard?

1:03:46Yeah.

1:03:48Okay.

1:03:49And finally, chime three, okay.

1:04:03So would anybody, before we get into questions,

1:04:06like to re-hear any of those chime tones?

1:04:11Yes, we have a hand up in the room.

1:04:13Could I hear the first one again, please?

1:04:15Yes, not a problem.

1:04:26All right.

1:04:28Okay, so I'm going to stop sharing

1:04:30so that we can all see one another now.

1:04:32So we're just going to look at a big blue screen.

1:04:35And let's open it up for some conversation.

1:04:37I'm going to take some notes.

1:04:38So just so you're aware,

1:04:40so that way I have some feedback,

1:04:41I can come back to my team with as well.

1:04:44I see a hand in the room.

1:04:46All right, Laura, line up.

1:04:47Just to share a route.

1:04:49Oh, sorry.

1:04:50Thanks to chair route.

1:04:51We have two minutes to the room.

1:04:52When you go to the room.

1:04:53I was just going to ask,

1:04:54is that the end of your presentation,

1:04:56just so I know for,

1:04:58or is there going to be more presentation after this?

1:05:01Okay, perfect.

1:05:02No, that's all.

1:05:03We're fully open for discussion now.

1:05:04Okay, perfect.

1:05:05Thank you.

1:05:07I can't see the hands in the room.

1:05:10We have Chris and we have Mike.

1:05:11I think it was Mike first and me.

1:05:13Excuse me, we have Mike first and then Chris.

1:05:15Okay.

1:05:16Hi, Laura.

1:05:17So listen to those tones.

1:05:19I take the bus pretty regularly here in the city.

1:05:23Like I take the 99, the 12, the 17,

1:05:26and the 18 pretty regularly.

1:05:28Out of those three tones,

1:05:30I think tone three would be the one

1:05:32that would work the best.

1:05:33And I based that upon the fact,

1:05:34I use headphones a lot.

1:05:36That I also have a background in professional audio.

1:05:39That should be able to be heard through headphones

1:05:43and most of the discussion that happens

1:05:45on the bus.

1:05:46Although I have noticed that not every bus

1:05:49has operational speakers.

1:05:51I have noticed that.

1:05:53Like it's just sometimes the things just don't work.

1:05:57I would also, maybe there could be something like,

1:05:59you said there's going to be something

1:06:01visually popping up as well, correct?

1:06:04Like it might just be an asterisk or special announcement.

1:06:07Maybe a small graphic could maybe go up.

1:06:11Maybe like, I don't know, like a yellow sign

1:06:14like an exclamation mark or something,

1:06:16not just something small and inoculus,

1:06:20something that really grabs your attention.

1:06:22Plus something that would also work for people

1:06:24that are color blind or something like that too.

1:06:28That might need to be taken into consideration as well.

1:06:31But yeah, I mean, the big reason I like number three

1:06:35is that should cut through everything else

1:06:37that's happening on the bus.

1:06:38Tone one's a little too quiet.

1:06:40Tone two's a little too in the high kind of register.

1:06:43So I don't think that'll get through

1:06:45whereas tone three has that nice,

1:06:46bassy thing and that should,

1:06:49you should be able to pick up on that.

1:06:51So that's just my question, Colin, I guess.

1:06:55Thank you, through the chair to you.

1:06:57So in terms of the graphic, we have two different displays.

1:07:01We have our electric vehicle

1:07:03that has a large infotainment screen.

1:07:05And we have in all of our other vehicles,

1:07:07the small ticker in black and red.

1:07:10Unfortunately, we can't program color onto it.

1:07:13So the only visual we would be able to provide

1:07:16is a star, a symbol or the actual word and capital letters

1:07:20or lowercase depending on our requirement

1:07:23for our AODA important

1:07:24or something to draw attention to the reader

1:07:27who's looking at it.

1:07:28Though unfortunately, maybe in the future,

1:07:30we'd be able in our infotainment.

1:07:33But unfortunately right now,

1:07:34I can't do that graphic specifically.

1:07:37But I appreciate your take on tone three.

1:07:39That is good.

1:07:40At the end of all of this, what I'd like,

1:07:42once people are sharing,

1:07:44because it might be that some people have a preference

1:07:46or a reason over one or the other.

1:07:48I think coming to a way where we can better understand

1:07:52what is the one moving forward at the end,

1:07:54that would be great.

1:07:56I would be able this Thursday

1:07:57is our transit advisory committee

1:07:59where we'd be able to discuss that with them as well.

1:08:03Thank you so much.

1:08:04Chris, you can go ahead and then Jeanette, you're next.

1:08:07Thank you very much.

1:08:08I remember hearing something similar to this

1:08:10when David Lepofsky had lobbied the TTC

1:08:14to make service stops accessible.

1:08:16And there was a conversation that happened

1:08:18for I think maybe a year or two

1:08:21around having drivers identify which stop they're at verbally.

1:08:26And that was a contentious issue

1:08:28because it tapped into their collective agreements.

1:08:31I'm just wondering that one braggy you have

1:08:34on page two of your presentation

1:08:35and talks about here,

1:08:36the drivers or the operators playing me

1:08:39the signals when they want to.

1:08:42Has there been a discussion

1:08:43around a minimum amount of time

1:08:44or is it up to the driver to decide

1:08:47when they want to play those?

1:08:49At this point, it is up to our operator.

1:08:51So typically in terms of some of the ones that we have,

1:08:57for example, what's a good one?

1:09:04Please fill all seats and move to the back

1:09:06as far as possible.

1:09:07We also have one that is, if possible,

1:09:09please exit through the rear doors.

1:09:11So in that case, an operator brought that to me

1:09:14as a request where they would be pulling up to a stop.

1:09:17The bus is quite full.

1:09:18They see someone who has an accessibility device

1:09:21or a mobility device that they need to put out the ramp

1:09:23and have space for that person.

1:09:25So they would hit it in that instance.

1:09:27There are some that are more on a case by case basis.

1:09:30So they're not required.

1:09:31It's their own, if they feel they need to have people

1:09:34move back, create more room for priority seating,

1:09:37whatever the case may be,

1:09:39they'll hit that on demand,

1:09:41whatever they feel they need for that service that day.

1:09:44Right, okay, that clarifies my point.

1:09:46I think Laura might have another.

1:09:48Thank you very much for that.

1:09:49No problem.

1:09:52Yeah, Jeanette, go ahead.

1:09:54Thanks, Chris.

1:09:55Hi, thanks for that presentation.

1:09:59And I am not a bus rider.

1:10:01I just want to put that out there.

1:10:03So I feel, let's just take what I say with a crane assault,

1:10:08but we are a neurodivergent family

1:10:11and we have sensory issues.

1:10:13Some people can wear things to cover their ears,

1:10:17to have noise canceling, others can't,

1:10:19because that day, that moment in time, they can't,

1:10:24because the headset, the earphones, whatever,

1:10:28is actually a sensory input that's not welcome at the moment.

1:10:32So when I heard the first tone,

1:10:35I thought that's very pleasant.

1:10:37The other two, yeah, I think someone had mentioned

1:10:40the tone range was too high and kind of unpleasant,

1:10:45and the other one was too jarring.

1:10:47So you're gonna get a whole mix bag of opinions,

1:10:51but I think it's important to have some other alternative

1:10:54besides those that are hearing a message so visually

1:10:59or whatever.

1:11:01Thank you.

1:11:07All right, Elizabeth, go ahead.

1:11:10Yeah, I'm gonna follow along on that same theme,

1:11:12being neurodivergent and listening to the tones

1:11:16I really didn't like number three,

1:11:18although it might be more effective for other people.

1:11:21I found number one pleasant,

1:11:23and it actually reminded me of the tone

1:11:25that they play in airports when they have an announcement.

1:11:29So I'm just wondering, instead of reinventing the wheel,

1:11:33have we looked at what other bus,

1:11:36like other cities do, what tones they play,

1:11:39are these ones that you've taken from other cities

1:11:43and just like learned from their experience?

1:11:48Thank you, Elizabeth, through the chair to you.

1:11:50So we have pulled from different areas.

1:11:54These are all open source, so they exist in the world

1:11:57in terms of what transit property,

1:11:59I'd have to go back and see what they're being used in.

1:12:02The three tone sound is the Grand River Transit sound

1:12:06currently used, which I believe was our option two sound.

1:12:11So we had borrowed theirs

1:12:13because they use that currently next to us in the region,

1:12:18but we're really open in terms of trying

1:12:21to kind of understand what best works for Guelph,

1:12:24and that's why we are presenting multiple.

1:12:27We have the ability, if we like certain tones,

1:12:30we can come back even with certain tone sounds

1:12:33that are in that similar family that we can come to.

1:12:36There is an option there, but we did do some research

1:12:40in terms of what can be readily available

1:12:42to the other areas around us,

1:12:44and that's how we came to the three that we have today.

1:12:51We have another hand up in the room there, Lorela, as well.

1:12:54Who's hand is it?

1:12:56Mike, Ashqui?

1:12:57Yeah.

1:12:58Yeah, okay.

1:12:59Is it okay if I ask mine first there, Mike?

1:13:01And then we'll circle back to you.

1:13:03Just I wanna get my...

1:13:04Yeah.

1:13:05Sorry.

1:13:08I was just gonna speak up about which tone

1:13:11worked best for me from an accessibility standpoint.

1:13:14I have hearing loss, and it depends.

1:13:17Every person with hearing loss is gonna have a different

1:13:22degree and configuration of hearing loss.

1:13:24I have high tone pitch frequency hearing loss,

1:13:27but I know a lot of people have low tone

1:13:29frequency hearing loss.

1:13:31So for the second sound, I couldn't hear it at all.

1:13:34The first sound was really difficult for me,

1:13:36because again, they were higher register,

1:13:38but I could hear them.

1:13:39The third sound was the only one that I could hear

1:13:42because it had such a range of tone and frequency in it.

1:13:46I also am autistic, and so I also hated all of them

1:13:50from a neurodivergent lens,

1:13:51because it's what everybody already said

1:13:54about sensory overload.

1:13:56However, I wonder if part of that last one sounding

1:13:59so jarring to people is because that one

1:14:01was the loudest volume.

1:14:02And I'm assuming you're probably on the bus

1:14:04going to implement them all at a standard volume

1:14:07either way, correct?

1:14:08You're just asking about the tone.

1:14:09Okay, so I wonder if anyone who spoke up

1:14:12about the last one being too jarring,

1:14:14it's because it was about three times louder

1:14:16than the other two.

1:14:17I don't know from a volume standpoint,

1:14:20but I assume they're gonna even that out

1:14:22so they'll all be just as loud as each other.

1:14:24So with that in mind, I would want the third one

1:14:27if we have to pick one of these three.

1:14:29If it's at all possible, it'd be great to have something

1:14:31that's like in airports, they often will have like

1:14:35do, do, do, do, do, do, like they'll have two

1:14:39or they'll be like do, do, do, do, do, do,

1:14:42like they'll go in a high and a low.

1:14:44It's a longer tone, but it shows more people

1:14:47able to hear it.

1:14:49That would be my thought.

1:14:51Anyway, sorry, go ahead, Mike.

1:14:52Yeah, let's say you actually bring up something

1:14:55that I was gonna kind of bring up with this.

1:14:57Again, Laura, this probably would be something

1:14:59that would require a little bit more investigation,

1:15:02but I'm wondering what the average background noise,

1:15:05what the DB is on those buses,

1:15:09only because the range of those tones may not be heard

1:15:11given the average background tones.

1:15:14You've got the engine, you've got the noise

1:15:16of the bus rattling itself.

1:15:18So that'll be something to be taken to consideration.

1:15:20I think Laura has an idea of finding something

1:15:23that hits the high register and the low register.

1:15:25That's enough time for the brain

1:15:26to recognize something's being announced.

1:15:29So there probably is a solution between tone one

1:15:31and tone three, something that goes up and down.

1:15:34It's something you may have to develop.

1:15:38Like I would maybe talk to a audiologist

1:15:41and see what they could develop.

1:15:42Because honestly, I could make this in an audio program,

1:15:46but I think having a professional consultant

1:15:48to give you the right range of tones

1:15:50that's likely to get a hold of someone

1:15:51is obviously someone who's neurodivergent.

1:15:54You don't want to jar them.

1:15:55You don't want it to be an unpleasant environment

1:15:57while still relying on that type of information.

1:15:59But background noise is definitely going to play

1:16:01into a factor if someone's going to hear it at all.

1:16:06Right.

1:16:07Again, probably looking way at this too

1:16:08like kind of Star Trekky,

1:16:09but I just want to make sure you're getting

1:16:11all the possible points to make sure

1:16:13everybody has that level of accessibility.

1:16:17Thank you very much.

1:16:21And Arto, go ahead.

1:16:25Just thought, had you considered

1:16:28reaching out to someone who does sound design?

1:16:35Have we considered it right now?

1:16:37Up to this point, no.

1:16:38We wanted to see before reaching out to a specialist

1:16:41if we presented and came up with some difficulties,

1:16:45then we would kind of begin to explore.

1:16:47So at this point, no, we have not.

1:16:50Okay.

1:16:52It was just a thought.

1:16:53I know multiple people that I've met

1:16:57through various theater groups

1:17:00who do a lot of work on sound design

1:17:01and would know places where you might be able to find

1:17:05more tones like this that are very use for anything.

1:17:13Okay.

1:17:24Any other questions?

1:17:26Yeah, I was just going to say that.

1:17:28Sorry, I was trying to type up a somewhat of emotion.

1:17:31That's okay.

1:17:33Yeah, does anyone have anything else to say about this?

1:17:37Anyone who spoke up about the first two tones,

1:17:39I would love to know if you think it was a volume issue

1:17:43that you thought the third one was more jarring,

1:17:45but I don't know whether people

1:17:50want to speak on that again.

1:17:51It's okay if you don't.

1:17:58All right, I don't see any hands.

1:18:00So the city came with a proposed motion

1:18:03that we received the report.

1:18:05We could also recommend something if we'd like.

1:18:09We can like receive the report and recommend that.

1:18:13I was just typing up a draft that said something

1:18:16along the lines of the Accessibility Advisory Committee

1:18:18recommend that staff do further investigation

1:18:21into more variety of accessible tones.

1:18:25I don't know whether that's something

1:18:26someone would want to move.

1:18:28I would definitely move that.

1:18:31But yeah, maybe specifically having to do

1:18:35with different types of hearing loss,

1:18:37sorry, keeping into account different types of hearing loss

1:18:41and different types of sensory overload

1:18:42for neurodivergent folks,

1:18:44because those are the two things

1:18:45we heard a lot about today.

1:18:48Mike, do you want to take a crack at like?

1:18:50Yeah, sure.

1:18:51Can I see the draft motion again

1:18:53and I'll try and finesse this best I can,

1:18:56fire from the hip here?

1:18:57My clerk's just kind of typing up.

1:18:59Oh yeah, okay.

1:19:01I think they're still typing it.

1:19:04Something along the lines of that we recommend

1:19:06that staff do look into it further,

1:19:09specifically through the lens of neurodivergent

1:19:12and hearing related.

1:19:15Specter loss, yeah.

1:19:21No one's added.

1:19:22Yes, okay, cool, thanks.

1:19:27Okay, so the motion I'm going to put forward

1:19:30is that the Accessibility Advisory Committee

1:19:32received the report named introduction of chime sound

1:19:34on conventional buses provided by Laura Catalano-Obragus

1:19:39and that the Accessibility Advisory Committee

1:19:40recommend that staff do further investigation

1:19:42into more of a variety of accessible tones,

1:19:46looking in across the spectrum of hearing

1:19:50and neurodivergency.

1:19:53Does that sound good?

1:19:55What do you do, hearing related?

1:19:57Hearing related disabilities.

1:20:00And neurodivergent.

1:20:02Yeah.

1:20:28I'm just typing that up.

1:20:31I'm looking across the spectrum of hearing

1:20:33related disabilities and neurodivergency.

1:20:38You've got time, we're ahead of schedule, so.

1:20:41It's going to be long really good here, yeah.

1:20:44Okay, so I need to read that again.

1:20:47Okay, the Accessibility Advisory Council,

1:20:49or sort of the Accessibility Advisory Committee

1:20:51received the report named introduction of chime sound

1:20:53on conventional buses provided by Laura Catalano-Obragus

1:20:56and that the Accessibility Advisory Committee

1:20:58recommend that staff do further investigation

1:21:00into more variety of accessible tones,

1:21:02looking across the spectrum of hearing

1:21:04related disabilities and neurodivergent.

1:21:07I think it should be neurodivergence.

1:21:09Yeah, I was just gonna say that.

1:21:10We've got time to do it.

1:21:11Yeah, NCE at the end of that one.

1:21:13Yeah.

1:21:14Read it again if I'm not there.

1:21:15Sorry.

1:21:17Okay, no, I totally got that.

1:21:18Oh, I think with that change, we don't have to read it again.

1:21:21We're just correcting a spelling error.

1:21:23So we have Mike moving that.

1:21:26Would anyone like to second that motion?

1:21:28I would.

1:21:30Perfect.

1:21:32Does anyone have any thoughts before I call a vote?

1:21:37All right, is anyone opposed to that motion?

1:21:43All right, the motion carries.

1:21:45Thank you so much.

1:21:47And thank you so much, Laura Catalano-Obragus.

1:21:51Did I say it right that time?

1:21:52Yes, that's perfect.

1:21:52Thank you so much.

1:21:53Thank you for coming today.

1:21:54This has been great.

1:21:55I appreciate you all having me and thank you so much.

1:21:57I'm looking forward to coming back

1:21:59with some of those options to share with you.

1:22:02Thank you again.

1:22:08So now we're moving on to item 3.4,

1:22:10Heritage Conservation District Boundaries.

1:22:15We have a five-minute staff presentation from Jack Mallon

1:22:19and then 15 minutes for AAC discussion.

1:22:22Jack, if you're here, you can go ahead and take the floor.

1:22:26Thank you, Chair Root.

1:22:27I hope everyone can hear me.

1:22:30I'm just going to share my screen.

1:22:39Okay, I hope the PowerPoint is visible.

1:22:42Thank you all so much for having me.

1:22:44Today, I'm going to be providing an introduction

1:22:46to the Downtown Guelph Heritage Conservation District Study.

1:22:50My name is Jack Mallon

1:22:52and I've been a Heritage Planner with the City of Guelph

1:22:54for two years.

1:22:56Before I speak about this project,

1:22:59I would just like to acknowledge that in the past,

1:23:01the goals of Heritage Conservation and Accessibility

1:23:05have not always aligned,

1:23:07but in the last decade,

1:23:09the Heritage sector has made strides

1:23:12to recognize that accessibility needs to be considered

1:23:14in the conservation of our heritage resources.

1:23:17And in my own practice, as a Heritage Planner,

1:23:22making buildings accessible

1:23:23has always been a personal priority.

1:23:25I think that if we're going to conserve

1:23:28our heritage buildings,

1:23:30we should ensure that they can be experienced by everyone.

1:23:35Okay, on to the main course.

1:23:38Downtown Guelph Heritage Conservation District Study

1:23:41was initiated in March, 2023,

1:23:44to evaluate Guelph's historic commercial core

1:23:46for designation under part five

1:23:48of the Ontario Heritage Act.

1:23:50This is in response to the province's Bill 23,

1:23:53which is removing heritage protections

1:23:55from approximately 80% of Guelph's heritage resources.

1:24:00A Heritage Conservation District will ensure

1:24:02that the Downtown Core significant heritage buildings

1:24:06and landscapes will be safeguarded from demolition.

1:24:10Heritage Conservation Districts help manage change

1:24:13in a defined area by identifying what is significant

1:24:16and creating policies to conserve heritage buildings

1:24:19and guide new development.

1:24:22Heritage Conservation District projects

1:24:24are divided into two stages.

1:24:26The first is the study phase.

1:24:28The study process includes extensive historical research,

1:24:32the identification of significant cultural heritage resources,

1:24:36and consultation with the public, property owners,

1:24:38business owners, First Nations, and other stakeholders.

1:24:42The primary deliverable

1:24:44of the Downtown Guelph Heritage Conservation District Study

1:24:48is a recommended district boundary,

1:24:50which will be presented to council in July, 2024.

1:24:56On this slide, the red line indicates

1:24:58the recommended district boundary.

1:25:02The hatched line was the initial study area.

1:25:06Hending council's approval of the district study

1:25:09and recommended boundary,

1:25:11the Downtown Guelph Heritage Conservation Project

1:25:13will proceed to the second phase,

1:25:15which is the development of a planning guideline.

1:25:19The purpose of a district planning guideline

1:25:21is to provide a basis for the management and conservation

1:25:24of the area's heritage resources,

1:25:26including guidelines for alteration,

1:25:28demolition, and new development.

1:25:31A district planning guideline

1:25:32will not prevent the alteration of buildings

1:25:35and would only apply to the exterior buildings

1:25:37within the district, not any interiors.

1:25:41If the Downtown Guelph Heritage Conservation District Study

1:25:44project proceeds to the development of a planning guideline,

1:25:48the Accessibility Advisory Committee will be consulted

1:25:51in Q3 or Q4 2024 to ensure that the planning guideline

1:25:56adequately considers accessibility in the management

1:25:59of downpounds heritage resources.

1:26:03Thank you all so much for your time today.

1:26:05I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

1:26:08I'll stop sharing my screen.

1:26:14Perfect. Does anyone have any questions?

1:26:20Have a question in the room, Mike?

1:26:22Yeah.

1:26:24I've actually sat in on this committee a few times

1:26:26and I'm aware of one building

1:26:28that's currently undergoing renovation.

1:26:31I think it's a heritage, but it's the Albion.

1:26:34And I know they're gonna do some work

1:26:36on the interior for accessibility,

1:26:38but I've talked to someone

1:26:39and the outdoor can't be altered,

1:26:42but does that include making a door accessible,

1:26:45like to make it kind of wider

1:26:46or to add like a AOM kind of push button?

1:26:49Like does that factor into the heritage thing at all?

1:26:56Through the chair to member Mike.

1:27:01The alteration of an entryway at the Albion

1:27:05would be considered through a heritage permit,

1:27:09but in my practice as a planner,

1:27:13any alteration required for accessibility

1:27:16would not be hindered by a heritage designation.

1:27:20The Albion is unique

1:27:22because it's individually designated already.

1:27:25So if we proceed to a downtown district,

1:27:29it'll have two layers of designation.

1:27:32But I think that the widening of doorways specifically

1:27:37is something that I hope we can put specific language

1:27:39in the planning guidelines when we get to that phase

1:27:43that exempts those types of accessible alterations

1:27:46from the permit process.

1:27:50Okay, thank you.

1:28:01Sorry, I lost my buttons.

1:28:03I couldn't figure out where to click for a second there.

1:28:05Does anyone else have any questions?

1:28:13Okay, my question then is just,

1:28:14is there a certain like piece of feedback

1:28:17you're looking for from the AAC?

1:28:19I looked over the report and it kind of outlines

1:28:22the boundary that you've laid out, which looks great.

1:28:25And the next steps, which to me look great.

1:28:28So is there something specific you're looking for

1:28:30from us in terms of emotion?

1:28:32Or if so, we can go ahead and move something.

1:28:36Not at this phase.

1:28:38I'm just hoping to kind of share this information.

1:28:40And because the study phase is mostly focused

1:28:43on kind of studying the history of the downtown,

1:28:47there's not really anything for the committee

1:28:50to provide feedback on yet.

1:28:51But when we get to the planning guideline phase,

1:28:53that's certainly where I'll come return to the committee

1:28:57and ask for specific feedback on the language

1:29:00that we're gonna use in that planning guideline.

1:29:03That sounds great.

1:29:04Thank you so much.

1:29:05So with that in mind, there is a recommended from staff,

1:29:09kind of just boilerplate motion to receive this information.

1:29:12Would anybody like to move that?

1:29:14It's up on the screen right now.

1:29:15It says that the accessibility advisory committee

1:29:17receives the staff report dated April 16th.

1:29:22I'll move that.

1:29:23And Arnold will move.

1:29:25And did someone just say they would second it?

1:29:28Yeah, I'll take it.

1:29:30That's so many.

1:29:31Perfect.

1:29:32Awesome.

1:29:34Thank you so much.

1:29:35And thank you for coming today.

1:29:37We appreciate it.

1:29:38We'll look forward to hearing from you again.

1:29:40Thank you.

1:29:49I keep losing my unmute button.

1:29:51I'm so sorry.

1:29:53Anyway, the next item is 3.5.

1:29:57It is about the AAC special meeting on May 21st.

1:30:01And Sarah, the floor is yours.

1:30:04Thanks, Charrods.

1:30:06This is a very quick item.

1:30:07It's more of a reminder to the AAC

1:30:10that we do have our meeting coming up on May 21st

1:30:14for Mallory from the Parks Planning Department

1:30:18to speak to clean grounds

1:30:19and the Parks and Recreation Master Plan

1:30:22as directed by Council.

1:30:23There were some items listed there.

1:30:25So this was something that the AAC motion for

1:30:27at the February meeting that we just had

1:30:30a couple of months ago.

1:30:32And so it is on Tuesday, May 21st from 3 until 5,

1:30:37of all those similar formats

1:30:39to all the other regular meetings.

1:30:42So again, just a reminder,

1:30:43we must have quorum to proceed with that meeting,

1:30:48which is eight members or more,

1:30:50a minimum of eight members.

1:30:52And then I did actually prepare a recommended motion

1:30:56for this item on the agenda today.

1:31:00As we had a request from another Parks staff,

1:31:04if perhaps they would be able to be added

1:31:06to that May 21st agenda,

1:31:07noting it is on the same topic.

1:31:09It's all Parks related details to present

1:31:14and consult the AAC regarding the Drew Park revitalization.

1:31:18So that I do have a recommended motion there

1:31:21and looking to see if there might be a mover for that.

1:31:27With that item, what is the length of time of that meeting?

1:31:31I just wanna make sure,

1:31:32I know we have a lot to go through in that meeting already

1:31:34with the, a lot of it I think has to do with the proposed

1:31:40changes to bylaws by Councillor Katen

1:31:43and all of those things that were listed.

1:31:44And we were gonna kind of try

1:31:45and really sink our teeth into that stuff, right?

1:31:48So I wanna make sure we're not just adding another

1:31:51standard AAC agenda item to a special meeting

1:31:54if that special meeting will in any way be taken.

1:31:59I really wanna make sure that that special meeting

1:32:01is reserved for what we scheduled it for.

1:32:06So we have spoken to the staff person Mallory

1:32:09who would be conducting rather speaking

1:32:13to the special meeting with that main topic at hand there

1:32:17and we kind of discussed potentially adding another item.

1:32:21So we're having two items and the second item being this

1:32:25Drew Park revitalization taking up approximately

1:32:28a total of 30 minutes.

1:32:30So that would allow Mallory's item to be an hour and a half

1:32:35approximately with 30 minutes

1:32:38for the Drew Park revitalization item.

1:32:41We can certainly ask staff to see if they would like

1:32:44to come to the June meeting.

1:32:45And if we have time on that agenda instead

1:32:48if there is concern there, but just wanted to kind of

1:32:51give some context that we have checked with staff to see it.

1:32:54It would be reasonable to kind of have these two items

1:32:57on that special meeting agenda.

1:33:01My only concern, I know that staff would be fine

1:33:04sharing their presentation time,

1:33:05but I don't know whether we're fine splitting our,

1:33:09here's our feedback time, you know what I mean?

1:33:11And also I know that a couple of counselors

1:33:14have expressed interest in attending this meeting.

1:33:16I just got an email yesterday asking about like,

1:33:20can we attend that meeting?

1:33:22I don't know whether there's any way for them to be involved.

1:33:25I know some of it had to do with Councillor Katen's motion.

1:33:28So whether or not Councillor Katen would be, I'm not sure.

1:33:33I can email you to ask those questions more directly,

1:33:36but I do know that we just already have a lot going on

1:33:40in that meeting.

1:33:40So I would rather add another Park review

1:33:45just to a standard meeting the way it would usually be,

1:33:49personally, but I'm not sure how everyone else feels.

1:33:58Also maybe just to add a bit more information there,

1:34:01the motion from the AAC or the May meeting on topic at hand

1:34:08is included in the minutes from the February meeting,

1:34:11but I just have it up on my screen here

1:34:12that the AAC motion for the special meeting to occur

1:34:18with Park staff to discuss the items as directed by Council.

1:34:23And there were five items listed on there,

1:34:27includes again, the details about the Parks

1:34:30and Recreation Master Plan.

1:34:33Some requirements in terms of what types of play equipment

1:34:38can be included or should be included in new playgrounds.

1:34:41This is that conversation we've had around transfer stations,

1:34:44not being included in the list, for example.

1:34:48And that's the added detail about rubber surface distribution

1:34:53at 2.5 kilometers radius be added to the PRMP,

1:34:58the Parks and Recreation Master Plan,

1:35:00as well as for final PRMP include a recommendation

1:35:05that areas of economic and legal de facto

1:35:08permitting the location of playgrounds

1:35:10within with a rubber safety surface.

1:35:13And lastly, that the final PRMP include a recommendation

1:35:17to work with the Accessibility Advisory Committee

1:35:19to assess the target ratio of playgrounds

1:35:21that have rubber safety surface.

1:35:24Right, yeah, those are all parts of that council meeting

1:35:28I was talking about, or not all of them.

1:35:30But yeah, that's all a lot already to me.

1:35:34So I personally wouldn't move to add another thing

1:35:37to that meeting.

1:35:38I would add to find time for a new park review

1:35:42to happen at an AAC meeting,

1:35:44but I'm not sure if anybody feels differently

1:35:47and wants to move that in order to go ahead.

1:35:56Are you moving that you wanna have it added

1:35:58or do you wanna speak?

1:36:02I's thinking five items, it's gonna be heavy discussion.

1:36:07We've done five items here,

1:36:12so it may be better to try and fit the parks

1:36:14into the regular meeting as you were suggesting.

1:36:18So I would.

1:36:21Okay, no problem.

1:36:23We can just remove the recommended motion

1:36:27that's currently there, no one has moved it.

1:36:29And we can bump this right onto the June AAC agenda.

1:36:35My only question, Sarah, is whether there is a timeline

1:36:39restraint on that that will get screwed up.

1:36:43Like by the time it comes to us,

1:36:44will it already be in too late for us to have feedback?

1:36:48Or can we move it to the next meeting and it would be okay?

1:36:51Nope, we can certainly move into the next meeting

1:36:53and that'll be okay.

1:36:54It'll certainly be on the June agenda.

1:36:57I think that will still be with the staff timeline.

1:36:59We did check in with staff ahead of time.

1:37:01Again, this was just kind of like an idea.

1:37:03We thought maybe it might fit well,

1:37:05but certainly your feedback has been valuable

1:37:07and that's okay, but I'm on the June agenda.

1:37:10We also have a hand in the room, it's Chris.

1:37:13Yeah, I was gonna say, remember, I don't go ahead.

1:37:15Just for clarification, was that something

1:37:17that was asked for by the AAC in February?

1:37:20The alternate meeting, should we go over this?

1:37:22Yes, there's a motion from the H&M.

1:37:24And now we're going back on that?

1:37:26No, no, adding.

1:37:27Okay, adding to it.

1:37:28No, we're just not wanting to add to it.

1:37:30Okay, good, okay, yeah.

1:37:31Thanks very much for the clarification.

1:37:39All right, so is that the whole item then, Sarah?

1:37:42Because if so, I believe that is us wrapping

1:37:45this meeting early.

1:37:49Yeah, so. Is there anything else on that item, Sarah?

1:37:52I'm done on my item there.

1:37:54All right, do we need a motion to adjourn early

1:37:56since we're early, or is that only

1:37:57if we need to adjourn late?

1:37:59What, one second?

1:38:00Sorry, Sarah.

1:38:01There was one more item.

1:38:03We have a new staff member

1:38:05that has joined the accessibility team.

1:38:08Her name is Keely, and she will be working with us

1:38:11to segue some of the site plan review

1:38:16will be in her portfolio.

1:38:19So AAC members will become familiar with her

1:38:22participating on the site plan.

1:38:28That's it.

1:38:33Okay, thank you so much.

1:38:34I'm so sorry, I didn't see that on the agenda.

1:38:36Did I skip it like way back?

1:38:38Or is it?

1:38:39That's a bit of an announcement on our part there.

1:38:41Yeah, okay, cool.

1:38:42I'm like, I didn't mean to skip it.

1:38:43I'm so sorry.

1:38:44Welcome, Keely.

1:38:45It's nice to have you,

1:38:46and we'll look forward to working with you.

1:38:47That's great.

1:38:51All right, well, in that case,

1:38:52do we need a motion to adjourn early,

1:38:54or do we just adjourn?

1:38:56Just a motion to adjourn.

1:38:57You'll get your mover seconder, and go from there.

1:39:00Looks like Ted's moving.

1:39:02Can we get a seconder to adjourn?

1:39:04Mike is seconding.

1:39:05Thank you, everybody.

1:39:07Do you have next month's motion?

1:39:08We don't need to know if anyone's opposed, right?

1:39:11Oh, Shannon, your hand is up.

1:39:12Is that for?

1:39:15Nope, sorry, accidentally knocked on.

1:39:17I apologize.

1:39:18Wrong.

1:39:19Perfect.

1:39:19All right, thanks.

1:39:20Have a good night.

1:39:22Bye.

1:39:23Good evening.

1:39:24Thank you.

1:39:26Thank you.

1:39:28See you next month, guys.

1:39:29Thank you.

1:39:35That's how it's done efficiently.

1:39:36Yeah.

1:39:37That was great.