Council Orientation and Education Workshop

5:38Hello everyone and thank you for joining us for our Council Orientation, Education and Workshop,

5:43but let's just call it the workshop. It is Wednesday, March 19th, 2025. It is 9.30am

5:51and so I'd like to officially call the meeting to order and with that, if we could please stand if

5:57you're able as we recognize our national anthem. Thank you. Now a moment of silent reflection.

7:41Thank you and now our territorial acknowledgement. As we gather let us take time to reflect on our

7:45privilege to live and work here in Guelph, a city that's built over rich indigenous histories.

7:50We are guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for the land and the

7:55people who live here today and the generations to come. If our actions today can move us towards

8:00reconciliation we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

8:06This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples

8:10over time but more specifically the Anahuan Rock and the Hone Nishoni. This land is held as the

8:16treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation and Guelph lies directly

8:21adjacent to the Haldeman Tract which is part of a long established traditional hunting grounds for

8:25the six nations of the Grand River. Many First Nations Inuit and Métis people who have come

8:31from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today. With that is there any disclosure of pecuniary

8:37interest any general nature thereof for the workshop item in front of us today?

8:43Hearing none seeing none I do have official regrets from Richardson, Klassen and Keaton

8:51just for this for the clerks to make a note of that and with that we are here under the title

8:592026 budget confirmation planning workshop so I am going to turn it over to staff to kick us off

9:06with the presentation but just very quick off the cuff comments from me. I heard very clearly

9:17and I listened some of you may think I don't listen to you every now and then that this moment an

9:25upfront moment with council and there will be many more coming don't get me wrong but this one

9:31earlier in the setting of the budget under the mayor's prerogative for 2026 should be more

9:41have more upfront collaboration discussion and dialogue prior to setting a course or setting

9:48what kind of values we're looking to get out of things for the community and so that's why

9:53we're here today our staff have prepared a sort of moment a presentation in the moment of where we

10:00are at where things possibly could be going numbers that were in direction and sort of filters that

10:10staff used in the previous budget look to use in the in the next one and also looking for the

10:19feedback and once the presentation is done I'll I'll sort of try my best to facilitate that dialogue

10:26back and forth with you to have some open-ended discussion and open-ended questions answered

10:31where we can kind of lay out a little bit at this time understanding that things will make

10:35might very well change but at this time what type of things is council looking at to help me with

10:43giving that direction to staff as they go away for the the creation of the 2026 budget.

10:50There was a lot I feel that worked very well in the last budget there was some things that I

10:56worked well sort of a draft budget coming out first a listening tour if I could call it that

11:02across the community listening to all of you I would argue and probably could point to many many

11:09things that were in the 2025 budget purely because I listened to you purely because I listened to the

11:15public and purely because I listened to staff as well so my openness to continue to do that is

11:22consistent it will remain but this moment is kind of new and because the whole strong mayor power

11:28budget thing is new this is our second year doing it it is probably an iterative kind of process

11:34where we're going to refine things as we move forward year after year I would imagine so

11:39I with that just just those are off the top of my head comments I appreciate the counselors being

11:45here this is not the only moment where feedback can happen obviously I'm open to hearing from anyone

11:51as we move forward okay so but this is early to set a set a good runway for everybody to kind of

11:57hear what we're at today and set some direction well that for me to take away information so that

12:02I can set direction at another time with that I'll turn it over to staff to kick us off on the

12:07presentation and then we'll get into some of the open questions go ahead thank you okay thank you

12:13and good morning mayor Guthrie so we are here today to have an early conversation about the

12:192026 budget update as the mayor just outlined well we have just finished the 2025 budget confirmation

12:25and we are currently working through the 2024 year end we are also working to develop the process

12:30and plan for 2026 this is intended to be a high level conversation about perspectives and objectives

12:38for the 2026 budget confirmation process to support this conversation we have provided an

12:44overview of the current status of the 2027 budgets in the staff report and we will review that

12:50information through this presentation to help provide context at this point in the process

12:56we are not prepared to delve into the details of any particular investments that will come later

13:02our objective for the 2026 budget confirmation process is to update both the 2026 and 207

13:08budgets and have a true budget confirmation process for 2027 next year just wait for the

13:21slide to catch up there we go in December mayoral directive 2020 for b6 was released which requested

13:28staff to facilitate a city council discussion for input on affordability targets for the 26 and 27

13:34budget updates and the prioritization criteria this early budget touchpoint responds to this

13:41mayoral directive i think you have seen this picture and heard this explanation numerous times

13:51by now but as a reminder guelph has a four-year multi-year budget cycle that is aligned with the

13:56strategic plan the original multi-year budget for 24 to 27 aligned with the future guelph strategic

14:03plan and was adopted in late 2023 in early 2025 we completed the first budget confirmation cycle

14:10for the 2025 budget year 2026 will be the second budget confirmation cycle for this multi-year budget

14:18with this being our first four-year multi-year budget cycle we are continuously learning and

14:22improving on the process in future multi-year cycles we would like to have a conversation like

14:27this prior to the multi-year budget development incorporating an affordability lens for the full

14:33four years upfront at the strategic planning stage this will help minimize change in budget

14:39confirmation years and enable us to realize the capacity building potential that was envisioned

14:44at the time the city adopted multi-year budgeting to improve staff's capacity to implement council's

14:50approved strategy we'll now jump into a high-level overview of what's currently included in the 26

15:00and 27 budgets so this slide shows 26 and 27 tax supported operating budget increases the 26

15:09forecast currently calls for a 4.51 city services levy impact and a 2.72 local boards and shared

15:17services impact with a 0.21 hospital levy for an overall increase of 7.44 percent the 27 budget

15:26calls for an overall increase of 5.69 consisting of 3.86 for the city services and 2.03 for local

15:34boards and shared services as well as the removal of the hospital levy as 2026 is the last year of

15:40the current commitment so taking a deeper dive into the broad categories that make up the city

15:48services budget increases base budget inflationary increases are the increased costs associated with

15:54current service delivery this category includes inflationary compensation increases adjustments

16:01for utilities costs facility and equipment maintenance medical supplies and software licensing fees to

16:07meet current service delivery needs we undertake trend analysis annually for this category of

16:12expenses and make adjustments as appropriate however any major changes to this category are

16:18not possible without associated changes to service delivery operating impacts from capital are the

16:25activation funds required to put new capital assets into use delivering services in our community

16:32they are generally associated with growth or service enhancement capital projects and are only

16:36infrequently associated with infrastructure renewal projects usually there is a lag between when the

16:42capital project is budgeted and when the operating impact hits occasionally an operating impact may

16:48begin in the same year as the capital budget if the capital project is expected to be completed

16:52and operational in the same year this category includes operating impacts continuing to be

16:59phased in for the south end community center and the baker district transit expand 2911 fire dispatch

17:06system and information technology impacts all operating impacts from capital will be reviewed

17:12through the 26 budget update process to ensure alignment with the completion of the underlying

17:17capital investment growth investments are the operating investments required to maintain

17:23current service levels for our growing community many growth investments are actually grouped

17:28into the operating impacts from capital call or category if they are linked to a growth related

17:34capital project this standalone growth category includes any budget investments to service growth

17:39that are not directly associated with a capital project it includes the expansion of community

17:45benefit agreements new paramedics and investment in resources to housing this is a negative number

17:51in 2026 because of higher assessment growth revenue than budgeted for 25 that shows up as

17:56an offsetting reduction in this line for 2026 service enhancements are operating impacts

18:04are operating investments that increase service levels for our community including enhanced

18:08services implementing oh sorry enhanced security services implementing electrification of our

18:15transit fleet and support for projected increases in transit ridership like growth service enhancement

18:22investments are often included in the operating impacts from capital category if they are directly

18:27associated with a capital project the capital financing category is transferred to the tax

18:33supported capital reserve funds which in turn support the capital budget this category also

18:39includes funding for development charge exemptions and discounts the increases on this line were

18:44significantly reduced for 2526 and 27 through the 25 budget confirmation process and the tax

18:51supported capital reserve funds were projected to be in a deficit until 23 heavily relying on

18:57inter-reserve fund borrowing and leaving room for grants from upper levels of government to improve

19:02this forecast over time any further reduction to capital financing would need to come with

19:08a corresponding capital budget reductions we have a new category this year of respectful

19:14requests made by council on budget budget amendment day for future years this category

19:20includes funding for Beaumont park construction an increase in funding for the affordable housing

19:25reserve increased investment for corporate and community energy initiatives linked to the race

19:29to zero and 100 are equals and funds for the Guelph by Centennial event assessment growth revenue

19:36is forecasted at 1.15 percent again for 2025 and that is allocated between city services and the

19:43local boards and shared services turning our attention to the non-tax supported budget now

19:52the numbers you see on this slide are gross expenditures which is why we have added 2025

19:57figures for context these expenditures are funded funded by the specific revenue streams for each of

20:04the services in 2026 the budgeted increase is 11.1 million overall with an 11.8 million increase in

20:122027 the rate impact row pertains only to the utilities the combined water wastewater and

20:18stormwater rate increase for 2026 is projected to be 10.84 percent and 8.26 percent in 2027

20:30in 2024 um sorry in late 2024 for 2025 we brought you a prioritized 10-year fully funded capital

20:40budget and forecast with funding for all capital projects reflected in the capital reserve forecast

20:46this slide shows the results of that prioritization work through the 1.1 billion reduction for 25 to

20:522034 in the change column in the middle of this slide for 2026 and 2027 we will be taking an

21:00incremental approach to updating the capital budget using the extensive work done in 2020 or for 2025

21:07as a base in 2026 and 2027 the city has an annual capital budget of 394 million and 286 million

21:15respectively with local board police and library capital budgets planned at 5.2 and 6.8 million

21:23those figures are included in the 2025 to 2020 2034 confirmed column

21:32this is the draft schedule for the 2026 budget confirmation process for 2025 we separated out

21:39the city services and local board budget processes and that is the plan again this year with the

21:44minor change that this year the full process is planned to be completed before year end the proposed

21:50process is quite similar with draft budget materials being released mid-october and the staff

21:56presentation to council at the end of October followed by community engagement the release of

22:01the mayor's budget update budget delegations and council amendments the local board budgets will be

22:07released in early December with council consideration and approval scheduled for December 17th and with

22:13that I will now hand it over to Jody sales to talk about prioritization criteria thank you before we

22:25review the prioritization criteria I want to take a moment to speak to several external influences

22:30that staff are monitoring for impact on our priorities and budget 2025 has already turned out

22:36to be a year of change at multiple levels and these changes will continue to impact the city's

22:40priorities and budget while the provincial election in February did not bring about a change in

22:45government it did provide a new mandate for the board government much of the election focused on

22:50response to tariffs from the U.S. and we anticipate this will continue into the foreseeable future

22:56we will know more about the provincial mandate following the swearing in of cabinet later today

23:01and when the legislature returns on monday april 14th with the throne speech the next day at the

23:06federal level prime minister mark Carney has indicated that a federal election is imminent

23:11staff will again advocate for gulf's priorities during the election period and monitor the results

23:16for changes that will impact the city going forward trade relationships and tariffs have

23:21dominated the news cycles coinciding with continued pressures related to interest rates and costs of

23:26living these have both an impact on the local business community and on city operations staff

23:33are monitoring for potential supply chain issues and cost impacts for capital projects this will

23:38also have an impact on affordability related to the budget social changes such as social challenges

23:45such as homelessness substance use and mental health continue to appear as top of mind for

23:50residents issues around diversity equity and inclusion in particular in the face of conversations

23:56south of the border continue to be important work to remove systemic barriers and increase

24:01access to programs and services and wealth while growing and retaining a diverse and inclusive

24:06workforce technological change and cybersecurity are not new but continue to be a pressure the

24:12world continues to be increasingly reliant on technology and city business is no different

24:17our residents look to technology to support service options as we are increasingly dependent on

24:23technology there is also a greater risk related to cybersecurity which needs to be managed all of

24:28this to say city policy and budget budgeting doesn't happen in a vacuum and staff will continue to

24:33monitor these trends as part of the budget development process as a reminder this was the

24:43prioritization framework that staff used in the development of the 2025 budget update it was used

24:49for both decision-making related to operations new investments and service reductions and

24:53prioritizing the 10-year capital plan which as a result presented as a fully funded capital plan

24:59the prioritization criteria took into consideration the mayoral direction strategic plan priorities

25:05and managing key areas of risk to the city when the multi-year budget was developed the capital

25:11plan also included the equity framework as a pilot with engineering and transportation services

25:16projects using a prioritization framework for the budget update allowed for a more data-driven

25:22approach to decision-making and a structure focused on value and impact for consideration of options

25:28as they were presented based on the work put in in 2025 staff are proposing to use the same

25:36prioritization framework for 2026 and 2027 update process with the caveat that the equity lens

25:42continues to be implemented incrementally into this framework as an important driver as a reminder

25:48this criteria includes prioritizing investments in the services that are directly required to

25:55enable more housing such as water wastewater stormwater and roads meeting our legislative and

26:00regulatory requirements including maintaining standards and emergency service response health

26:06and safety and minimum winter road maintenance standards prioritizing those investments that

26:12have the greatest impact to the public minimizing risk as it relates to those investments that

26:17mitigate high financial regulatory or public risk and this work will be done in alignment

26:23with the implementation of the enterprise risk management framework which was brought to council

26:27earlier this year as well as prioritizing those initiatives that support the implementation of

26:31the future wealth strategic plan in a measurable way last year a significant amount of work was

26:37done to prioritize projects to meet the budget targets including fully funded capital forecast

26:42its staff's position that these priorities continue to be relevant and that year over year

26:46consistency assists in streamlining the process within the multi-year budget with adjustments

26:51made based on new or changing information at this stage we turn it back to you mayor Guthrie to

26:58facilitate the discussion to help inform budget guidance for this year's budget confirmation

27:03process to assist staff have developed some questions for your consideration throughout the

27:07discussion thank you shanna and jody and staff that prepared that for us and launches us into sort

27:15of the open open dialogue and discussion part that staff and myself can can hear back from you on

27:26let's just kick it off off the top who wants to wants to go first what does affordability mean

27:34to you looks like phil wants to go first first counselor all let's go ahead

27:39thank you mayor Guthrie my questions aren't related to the questions on that slide

27:43they're actually related to some assumptions on inflation and i think it would be a miso

27:49dryer but it might be somebody else on the in the affordable affordability targets the budget

27:55forecast 2.19 percent and i wonder with municipal price index with questions and concerns about wages

28:05and with tariffs whether that 2.19 percent is realistic or whether it's an under assumption

28:15thank you uh counselor all through the mayor that 2.19 percent is the tax levy impact it's not

28:22the percentage increase if that helps okay i thought that it was an inflationary projection

28:32and that was my concern um so i'm wrong there and i appreciate that we're starting at a base of

28:382.19 percent um similarly i noticed that with local boards on page seven i think it's a 1.1

28:47percent assumption again i'm i'm questioning whether that's a realistic number sorry counselor

28:58would you mind repeating your question uh counselor all you're muted but he was apologies

29:101.1 percent on the local boards the local boards yes it's uh 1.2 percent and i wonder whether that

29:19is is realistic given last year that it came in significantly higher um through the mayor the

29:26local boards for 2026 are net after assessment growth at 2.72 percent thank you so maybe what

29:39we'll do is just before i go to uh Gibson and then ororok is just let's make sure we all have the

29:46numbers because there was a lot of numbers flying around and which is fine we needed but what is the

29:52what is the proposed 2026 property tax impact on just the city

30:02of that is 4.51 percent okay and now the local boards is 2.72 percent

30:11and the total 7.44 because the hospital levy of 0.21 percent is also added yes okay so

30:25just for because i can remember this stuff two years ago it was 8.52 this year it was 6.78

30:37and next year it's staring us at 7.44 okay so and when i say us it's staring our community

30:45at 7.44 that's the numbers so just keep that keep that in mind as we continue to go through the

30:52the conversation okay Gibson and then ororok what does affordability mean to you guys thank you

30:58through mr. mayor and i understand that this presentation came together in the last few weeks

31:02and there's things changing all the time so i'll just maybe just ask some questions about projecting

31:06the rest of the year into next year so 2024 was a pretty significant budget increase for our city

31:13largely predicated in my view on inflation it was baking into the economy our interest rates

31:19were going through the roof supply chains were disrupted things like that looking ahead though

31:24and it just announced in the last week or so the consumer carbon prices come off everywhere

31:31across the economy which will be a blanket i would say deflation in the cost of living hopefully

31:38and so you know predictions are 17 cents a liter at the pumps i know from looking at our gas bill

31:45last month our carbon tax on our gas bill was more than our consumption of natural gas in our home

31:50so i mean there's going to be breaks coming through deflation with the announcement of the removal

31:55of the carbon fee and dividend so i just want to know if staff are looking at that i know there's

32:01talk about it going somewhere else in the economy like steel but and as a consumer as a as an industry

32:10as a business as a company the city you should see some breaks on fuel charges for our transit

32:18fleets and we should see breaks on natural gas consumption things like that so i just want to

32:23know on trying to estimate those savings look would you rather it be a let's see how it goes

32:35and perhaps that creates a bigger surplus at the end of the year maybe just if staff could comment

32:41sure uh through the mayor to councillor Gibson we will be looking at all of those

32:48potential impacts significant impacts that will be recommending then updates to the 2026 budget

32:57update for something like the carbon tax if that is a significant impact once we work through the

33:03numbers over the next few months great so maybe i'll pose a different way starting April 1st

33:11there should be a reduction in costs across the economy so can we maybe look at April May June

33:19as a city and see if those sort of deflation benefits are seen and project that into next year

33:27is that something that we may be able to do or again are you looking to apply the 6.7 or 7. something

33:33percent and then perhaps we run a perhaps we run a bigger surplus next year and we can benefit from

33:38that maybe i'm just looking at the strategy okay through the mayor to councillor Gibson so

33:47if yes if the carbon tax is off immediately and i believe it is then we should see positive

33:54variances resulting from that this year and we would be making recommendations to council about

34:00what to do with that as part of the year end next year and so we all i think are aware that our

34:08contingency reserves are fairly low in comparison with target and council has confirmed motions the

34:15last two years prioritizing building those backup and i think that would continue to be our recommendation

34:21to do that with a variance okay thank you second question probably the last one and then i'll

34:29speak a little bit but um two years ago we implemented a sort of phase in of hiring for

34:34new hire so i understand where the operations for library and set then rec center are coming on in

34:422026 we have to propose for that is the is that hiring strategy still in place and are we still

34:49looking at sort of when we know the the the impacts of operations are coming on but we're still delaying

34:55that by six months and doing a 50 ramp up is that something that needs to be reinstated for 2026 or is

35:02it in place now through the mayor it is in place now it continues to be in place great thank you

35:10just commentary for me mr mayor um you know it's a small it's a small but important part of

35:16families budgets household budgets the municipal taxes are are part of the taxation equation in

35:23canada um i've said this for many years i don't want to be part of the burden i want to be i want to

35:28be part of the like residents feeling value for what they receive i don't want to be adding to

35:33their burden so a lot of people are going through a lot a lot of jobs insecurity facing a lot of

35:37families right now i believe the trade talk will calm down but for the foreseeable future i think

35:43that that should be top of mind for for us as a council that um we have a lot of workers in the city

35:51in advanced manufacturing and and uh that's top of mind for them cost of living and and um employment

35:57security is top of mind for them so i think we should be mindful of that when we're building our

36:00budget this year thank you okay thank you uh council or work and uh then donor uh thank you

36:08mayor guthrie through you to staff so i'll just go through the the list of notes that i checked

36:12when i went through the package i agree uh with um with my colleague that we know that there are

36:21there's a lot of instability in the local market so you know we're the fourth largest exporter per

36:27capita in the country and we're very vulnerable to tariffs and trade disruptions and i've said it

36:34here before many times that your property taxes are insensitive to the fact if there's a job loss

36:40or there's a death of a breadwinner in your home so when i look at the affordability

36:47i think there are households that are worried about job loss in the city and that we need to be

36:53extremely mindful of that in terms of what the tax rate is i think when i think about affordability

37:00i'm also looking back at previous years budget increases and that this is now cumulative i think

37:07also that across the city many many homes are not at that median benchmark of four hundred

37:14thousand dollars in assessed value we are way behind on the impact assessment i know of many

37:21households that are paying four thousand dollars a year for a two bedroom condo many homes paying

37:26between seven and ten or eleven thousand dollars a year and that one percentage point hits those

37:34families to a far greater degree than those assessed at the four hundred thousand so we have a very

37:39unequal tax burden the percentage is the same the impact is different across the city and so in my

37:46mind the seven point four is is just a non-starter especially in the context so it's it's the number

37:54of years we've been leading up to this it is the insecurity in the market and it is the variance

38:00across assessments in the city that we cannot just pass this along and i understand that these are

38:07costs that the city is also incurring but people are looking to us and saying in my workplace then

38:13we find somewhere else to compress and we can't just pass it along in terms of prices so uh so i

38:19am hypersensitive to that um i am wondering uh to staff i understand you've trimmed a billion

38:29dollars in the ten-year capital uh plan are we planning you know i'm wondering what are our

38:35historic levels of capital spending are we being over ambitious in what we think that we will build

38:42next year or the year after um and is that a place to sort of realign to historical trends

38:49also knowing there will likely be a lot of infrastructure funding for stimulus so

38:54i don't know if there's room to readjust some of the capital spending especially if anything is

38:59discretionary and not a hundred percent geared to housing i think that is an area to look at

39:05um the gross non-tax supported operating budget city services also in this proposal goes to a

39:13111.7 million in 2025 to 134.5 in 2027 so that's almost a 20 percent increase to the base budget

39:22and so unless that's all housing enabled enabling infrastructure i think we need to take a look at

39:28that every time we increase the base budget then even if it's a 2 percent afterwards it's 2

39:34percent on a larger base budget so you've heard me talk about the operating budget many many times

39:39here as well um i do have a question i've got i'll just go through the list but if i can ask a

39:45question kind of out of sequence mr. mayor through you to staff when we looked at the at the four-year

39:51multi-year budget the plan was that any increases for future year first had to be figured out within

39:59the departments and i understand we've had covid we've had all kinds of stuff that was not anticipated

40:04lots of government changes that undermine our assumptions our funding assumptions on dc's for

40:09example but how is that working within each of the departments when they're looking at an increase

40:16is the first step to look at managing it in budget which i think was the intention of the

40:20multi-year budget uh through the mayor and a councillor o'rourke i would say yes that is that

40:28would be the administrative changes category and we look at that through our trend analysis work

40:33and identify opportunities where we can potentially decrease um to to absorb an offsetting increase

40:41first okay so through you america i feel like that's why i wanted to see either zero-based

40:46budgeting that's why i'm happy to see the value for money audits i think we need to get at compressing

40:52the operating budget to degree to the extent that that's possible

40:55excuse me i wanted to also talk about not just affordability for residents in their homes but

41:05also the business environment particularly small businesses i got an email from a small business

41:13who said that when they opened their business in 2001 their business licensing fee was 75

41:19dollars and it's now 247 so it's a 60 increase over the the life of their business so i think for

41:28affordability we need to be looking also at what our assumptions are when we increase fees whether

41:34that's at the yard waste or whether that's for businesses because they're likely not getting

41:4160 service enhancement they are getting the same sort of licensing fee that they would get every

41:47year there obviously would be some room you know for spot checks and those types of things

41:53but i think businesses from an affordability point of view are hypersensitive to any of these

41:59increases and a lot of our local businesses are owned by residents and so it's a double whammy for

42:06them when the tax increases are not sustainable so they're feeling it at their business and they

42:11are feeling it at well on the property taxes for their business directly or through their rent

42:15and through a number of fees that because i think people don't increase it's just the bill at the

42:32end of the day so i'm asking you to look at all the fees not just through a lens of general inflation

42:38but through a lens of what is the service enhancement and whether it's required i'd like us to challenge

42:43ourselves to look at opportunities to freeze or reduce those fees because those businesses they

42:50create employment they are also going through a really tough time they are concerned about the

42:54general economic climate and they you know they sponsor teams etc so they're not a source of revenue

43:00they are subject to those rising property taxes as well and uh and my last point was really to say

43:06a lot of people are paying a lot more than that four thousand dollar median number that is uh

43:12that is the city's median um and i've met a lot of people i met a senior the other day who was

43:18really concerned about her rising property taxes over the past you know 10 years certainly five years

43:25definitely uh people who are concerned about being able to maintain their payments and stay in their

43:31home so um i am acutely concerned about the affordability going forward thank you very much

43:40uh we'll go to uh Downer and then Quran yeah so i i there's often a lot of talk about affordability

43:50and i've talked about this before around looking at the tax rate only as an affordability issue

43:55but i think we also have to remember um the affordability issues around the services we provide

44:02so and i've said a transit is an affordability issue having an affordable transit for people

44:08on very low incomes or what anyone it's an environmental issue but it's also an affordability

44:14issue for many people um they have to get to work um and um everything's tightened up or

44:22could be tightening up and you know i just think when and around also quality of life around

44:28recreation fees that don't go up continually for families um you know free activities or parks

44:36i don't want to see like a lot of cuts there or i just sort of remember when i was growing up

44:41fairly poor my father was a factory worker they were new immigrants they always looked for things

44:46that we could do that didn't cost money like so it was like it was going to the library and you see

44:51my as an adult my value for the the the use of libraries um for trails for hiking we did a lot

44:58of walking that's what we did sunday and for sports activities that don't cost a fortune in

45:03hockey gear that you know that they people can afford and fees so i do think there's the affordability

45:09issue goes beyond a tax rate and about keeping active quality of life issues for our residents

45:18while you know while times are tight in certain in families as well that that they can afford to

45:25do some of those things that connect them to the community and make um and things to do in a family

45:31recreation as well but also around i think transit is an important issue and i was really happy

45:37that this last year we didn't we didn't we didn't we rejig things around in that tenure but we didn't

45:43we didn't cut it any further so those are the types of things i'll be looking for as well

45:50thank you uh let's go to uh karan and uh then boost till well actually

45:57counselor downer pretty much listed everything that i was going to talk about

46:01in terms of affordability and we did not we did not converse about this ahead of time

46:07but yeah affordability isn't just about your property taxes it's it's all levels of taxation

46:13it's consumer goods it's it's being able to transportation food security so the line items

46:24where we are talking about um servicing services and programs for low-income residents

46:31golf neighborhoods for coalition our community grants rec programs rec fees libraries those are

46:37things that i i think we have to invest in because those are where our our citizens are going to be

46:42turning for support when they're when they are income compromised um as well i think um and you

46:50know i i don't want to come across that we're not cognizant of the impact of a year to year tax

46:56increase on our citizens because we very much are um but our long-term thinking our long-term

47:03plans can't be sacrificed because we will end up paying in my opinion later on if we don't make

47:09the investments we need to make on the long term so things like parkland things like um um well

47:16road infrastructure park infrastructure if we're not keeping up with um those items we will end up

47:23paying more down the line and that will affect affordability so in in times of austerity um

47:30you know economists say that's when public investments need to be you know at their strongest

47:36and so i know that that you know in our jurisdiction and municipal government that means property

47:43taxes but i'm i'm hoping that um federal grants infrastructure grants other funding sources are

47:50going to come our way as well so that we don't have to um um not focus on those long-term investments

47:59for me as well one of those long-term roi's is our commitment to net zero because

48:06utilities are a significant part of our um costs in terms of fuel um heating pooling

48:15infrastructure to support um fossil fuel infrastructure um and those investments will

48:24save us in utilities they'll save us um in climate mitigation and i don't want to lose

48:30that momentum as we look towards 2050 because i do think again in the long run roi on climate action

48:37is going to save us in the end and property tax increases over time great thank you very much

48:44councillor bustill i want to thank councillor downer and councillor Caron for opening this up

48:51because number one on my list was transportation public parks and services social services value

48:56for money cba sustainability so um i agree affordability this the the individuals that i i tend

49:04to interact with do not pay property taxes but they are our workers uh that work in our employment

49:13centers uh they are families and i i feel the responsibility to speak about affordability

49:20through their lens and their life experience um and so absolutely councillor downery i you know

49:26transit these are the families that use our our transit services that we need to invest in more

49:36recreation fees you know the circumstances now with families are they they are sharing that

49:41they're not participating in city recreation programs because it's rent first food second kids

49:47sorry you know we have no money to pay for recreation fees so affordability for our families

49:52and that quality of life that then translates into health and well-being and the other things that we

49:58talk about um for absolutely those free activities uh our libraries our trails our parks thank you the

50:06splash pad in the west end and when i've raised it in the past it's well you've got the west end

50:10recreation center well kids on westwood road you know who have no money at all cannot afford to

50:18go to swimming lessons and so on so thank you for that investment in there um i'm just going to go

50:24through i'm going to go through yes transportation public parks and services i put in here social

50:30services and um i feel in the budget and i'm a new councillor and i've shared this with the staff i

50:40really lack of understanding of what's in that big black box of social services and whether there's

50:46value for money and for me at the end of the day is do we have data so that we can say there's a

50:51better way to deliver this that is more effective more cost efficient and i don't i don't understand

50:58that an example that i sent to our joint social services committee was uh rent subsidies you know

51:04do we understand how much is going into private sector rent subsidies for individuals that potentially

51:11could go into a housing investment and i i don't get that so that to me is is concerning uh in

51:17in understanding that uh because at the same time uh you know we talk about housing but we also on the

51:25other side of the fence is the um left side of the continuum is public housing and i'm seeing more

51:32and more of uh people uh on very long forever waiting lists that that are suffering in their

51:39housing circumstance um cbas we had the review and i know it's coming i think at the end of this quarter

51:46um just what i'm hearing from uh agencies about their rents going up their ability to fill in the

51:53gaps around social services uh for individuals and i know that we can tighten that up but i do

51:59think it is part of what we need to do and absolutely i had the sustainability climate change

52:05but also uh looking at sustainability of jobs and i know we review the city's um services

52:15and employment and are there more efficient and effective ways for us to deliver services

52:20within the city and i know we're looking at um local boards and agencies as well which is which

52:26is great i do have two comments one is just you know the focus on enabling housing absolutely

52:34absolutely need that but i think uh the unintended consequences sometimes impact our parks our green

52:41spaces and so on and what i'm seeing is an intensification of use in our existing parks and what's

52:48concerning for me is as we look at what we're doing is the value of of programmed and i'm going to be

52:56an unprogrammed green space and so that is something that i will continue to push for is a

53:02balance of programmed and unprogrammed green space and valuing that as well um i think that's

53:11that's all i had yeah thank you great thank you and just the comments i'm just noticing so far

53:18kind of capturing a lot of the questions not just the first one there i mean you're you're all

53:22touching on everything which is which is great helps me not have to go through each one because

53:26you're you're already answering it mostly rodry rodery sorry uh councillor Goller did you want to

53:31go ahead uh yes thank you uh through worship just my my comments on this um i believe that that it

53:40is our responsibility to make sure that we're providing the the good value for for the city

53:45services and and and through that a couple of my colleagues have raised the points that we

53:51don't necessarily know um to what level we're getting good value in some of the uh the money

53:58that we give to other groups and i'm thanking willentum county social services it is a significant

54:03portion of our budget and i i trust that they're doing good but it's it's hard to know without

54:07the reporting that we asked for and we have not received um and with with police services i support

54:15police services i think they're very important but i am concerned that over the last two terms

54:22they have got year over year increases and i'm concerned that that money may have had been

54:29more impactful on the prevention side than on the policing side and i'm wondering how we can um

54:36realize so some changes there some focus on things that do preventative work and and that's where

54:43the city now getting into housing enabling and actually getting into the consideration of

54:50are we going to build some affordable housing i think if we play a greater role in enabling some

54:56of that um affordable housing built maybe by the city or in partnership with the city it will

55:03allow us to realize savings on those emergency services on the road so i think that's something

55:08for us to keep in mind um and to to prioritize through this budget process and and to what some

55:14of my other council colleagues mentioned if we're able to invest in renewable energy

55:21and our parks we will be getting dividends in the future but unless we make those investments now

55:28it's going to be much more expensive for us to walk it back afterwards but but i am of course

55:34conscious as a property owner and taxpayer and i talk to my neighbors i talk to my constituents

55:42there is the pressure and i am concerned about an eight percent or a nine percent property tax

55:48increase that as to as councillor rick said seven point four four it feels like that's

55:53somewhere where we shouldn't go so i am interested in seeing how we can continue to provide investments

56:00into the things that matter to us but making sure that that we do so in a mindful way to

56:07go for residents thank you thank you um does not no pressure but does billings or or chew

56:18want to just jump in on what their thoughts are moving into the 2026 budget if not it's fine

56:23we can we can move on i just want to give you the floor if you want to okay chew go ahead

56:28okay through you mr. mayor um along my thoughts that are already being captured by councillor rort but

56:36like i would just emphasize that the number is quite high and this is just me having ongoing

56:42conversations all the time with residents and there are a lot of folks that are on fixed incomes and

56:48while a lot of folks do have great benevolence to a lot of our community work that we support

56:55financially um it's it's getting harder for them to kind of reconcile how we're justifying

57:04some of the spendings but i don't want us to kind of be fighting for scraps and just having

57:10the bulk of our conversations be focused on you know what are we going to be doing with

57:15our community benefits and so forth i do think it'd be nice to look at the instruments that we

57:22have like the money for value audit and be able to use that to really have a deeper influence over

57:31what we're considering from the operational side i understand that's quite sensitive as well but i do

57:37think it's incumbent on us to look into that um so we can make things a bit more affordable while

57:43ensuring that we do have the right investments going to some of our trusted partners out in the

57:48community that we know for a fact are doing a lot of good work like for example the golf community

57:56polish in like they do a bunch of stuff with Denzo in the south end all the time right um

58:02so there's a lot of good work and i i don't think any of us want to dismiss that but you know the

58:08number is high and there's a political reality in which people are fixing their eyes on right now that

58:14is causing a lot of uncertainty so if we can be cognizant of that

58:18that will be a good shoot that's just my comments all right thank you uh councillor

58:26billings i saw you put your camera on okay i saw your hand go ahead go ahead

58:32okay so with respect to the 7.44 percent increase definitely would like to see that reduced so again

58:42just looking at the median property in Guelph so for 2023 this does not include your school portion

58:51but you would have paid $4,379 in taxes to the city and for 2027 that goes up to $5,762 so it's a

59:05cumulative tax increase of over 31 percent so the question was about affordability i don't think

59:13this is affordable and i don't think it's sustainable so i do look at inflation all the time the

59:20inflation increase so if we look at from march 2024 to february 2025 that's an inflation of

59:30average 2.29 percent so i understand all the pressures that we have

59:38with respect to the city budget however i do think we could work together and bring the 7.44 percent

59:47down thank you for before my comments did you want to jump back in councillor go ahead go ahead

59:56thanks margoth 33 i just want to share that i was chatting with somebody who's on the board of a

1:00:00financial institution recently and they have said that the recasting that they are doing given the

1:00:06economic climate right now is substantial and that they expect the impact will be greater than the

1:00:122008 financial crisis so larger organizations than ours are acknowledging that we are not in a regular

1:00:21year just the uncertainty right just the uncertainty we know the factories are not going to add a shift

1:00:28they're not going to retool they're not going to hire more people so i would just caution us in

1:00:35approaching this budget year as a regular far for the course year because we risk seeing significant

1:00:43economic shocks so the advice this person gave me was to look back at what the city did in 2008

1:00:50which i understand were some really bold moves at the time and hopefully that's not required

1:00:55but also that person said there will likely be significant investments in infrastructure

1:01:01and so the city really needs to position itself to have as much shovel ready as possible in order

1:01:08to be in a position to get those investments so that's the only piece that i wanted to add margoth

1:01:15three that we are in a year where we're going to see the opening of like the new rec center the new

1:01:24library there are some big new things in the community this year that will benefit people

1:01:31and so i think we should enjoy those maximize those and i think there's room to pump the brakes

1:01:38on some of the the newness i'm not challenging at all transit or things that get people to those jobs

1:01:45but i think we need to understand this is not going to be a normal year

1:01:50in the so it's not likely to be a normal year and we should keep that in mind

1:01:57thanks oh councillor too did you want to jump back in quickly there go ahead

1:02:02yeah i i just want to say too like we there has been a lot of great work that has been

1:02:06accomplished through you know our collective advocacy and and like a lot of art like your

1:02:13individual advocacy as word counselors i think there's a great opportunity just to really bring

1:02:19home and market some of the great initiatives that we have done and be able to walk people through

1:02:26that in their in your conversations because i think part of it is just being able to bridge

1:02:31the understanding for where we are and what the reality is for people's individual household

1:02:37budgets and what you know our advocacy has done and then the day like the ceiling is always going

1:02:43to rise in terms of you know what is expected and what's needed but like we have to be very very

1:02:52sensitive to people uh budgets right now because you know like these employment in the city is

1:02:58going to be affected very heavily directly by what's happening politically so that that's what's

1:03:04really uh capturing my emotions when we're we're going through this process but i think maybe this

1:03:12this can be a shared sentiment and most all of us right so yeah that's all i have to i want to say

1:03:21okay thank you very much everyone for the feedback and i just for those that are joining us online like

1:03:27staff are madly writing things down so i'm there um well maybe just to finish off um

1:03:39i'll give you my thoughts and like i have a feeling what i'm going to say today could change in an hour

1:03:45uh but um i guess where i'm at is i'm just frustrated very frustrated that outside boards

1:03:56are continuing to be so much higher than they were in the past even with assessment growth worked in

1:04:05their their impacts on the overall the overall levy at the end of the day are

1:04:11are just so much higher than they used to be and i i mean somebody can be justified and

1:04:17understandable yeah but it's it's it's too much and the problem that i have procedurally is that

1:04:27strong air powers do not impact any of those outside boards so i can only write a letter

1:04:35and say i respectfully request or even us um even us as a council could pass a motion and at the

1:04:45end of the day i would only say we respectfully request that you do you know try to do the following

1:04:51um but these outside boards they they just continue to rise and rise and rise so as an example

1:04:58i'm just trying to do the numbers 7.44 percent well like 2.72 of that let's just round it up

1:05:05because probably by the end of the year it will probably be three so three percent is outside

1:05:10boards which we have no control over if they don't do anything different so our our community is

1:05:18immediately looking at like a three percent hit immediately and it has nothing to do with us at

1:05:24all and historically we used to have two three four percent budgets like consistently over time

1:05:30those days seem to be gone and that's very frustrating to me so if we're trying to do

1:05:37something that's lower than 7.44 percent like and even if we didn't look at value or didn't look at

1:05:45you know what people are getting at the end of the day and we just actually looked at a number

1:05:50and let's say we said four percent that means the entire city budget can't be more than one

1:06:00like and so it's the it's a frustrating position as the board of directors can you imagine the

1:06:07frustrating position that our staff are going to be in in trying to accomplish that as a reminder

1:06:13just to get our staff jump in if i'm saying the wrong numbers but just to get the 2025 budget

1:06:20on the city side down to what it was required almost 15 million dollars or so cut from that budget

1:06:28so like we're we're we're entering like if we're trying to trying to kind of model what we did

1:06:36this past year and try to you know push it into 2026 we're entering a stage of another 15 20 million

1:06:45dollars in cuts on top of the 15 20 15 am i saying everything right so far everybody

1:06:51please correct me if i'm wrong yes you're correct mayor got three to get from what was originally

1:06:56proposed for the city for 25 to the 2.63 percent target that was 15 and a half million i believe

1:07:06yeah and so what i'm so what i'm saying is if we want to model another reduction to try to end up

1:07:11where we're at we're looking at another 15 million dollars or more to try to get that down just for

1:07:172026 and these these these these would mean significant conversations about service impacts

1:07:24to the community because the deferral part can that can be maybe tweaked that's kind of cutting

1:07:32around the edges a little bit but literally the deferral part is so massive now that you're looking

1:07:40at the only way to accomplish a lower number is cuts and i'm okay like i'm okay to have conversations

1:07:46in there i think we all need to we must actually i think we must do that but it's just this is the

1:07:52reality of what we're facing as as decision makers and so it's very frustrating to me that we are

1:08:00continually seeing these high numbers i have a couple questions and there's one more one more

1:08:07comment just back to councillor Gibson's question about the library and the south end rec center

1:08:11it's opening up in 2026 but i would imagine it's not opening up until like the late fall or something

1:08:16am i right through the mayor i will look to dcao homes but yes i believe that's so you know where

1:08:24i'm going on my question is if we are staggering the hiring and we're doing like 50 50 but if the

1:08:32south end rec center and the library aren't opening until like october november or something of 2026

1:08:37could we look at only doing 25 impact for those hireings in 2026 understanding that it would be

1:08:45a full year impact in 2027 but i'm just trying to see if we can save some numbers on the fte's

1:08:51depending on when those doors actually open and the ribbon is cut through the mayor to you mr

1:08:57mayor you're correct with the timing okay in terms of those both of those projects being on schedule

1:09:03so absolutely we can look at the uh the staggering of the of the staffing so that it makes sense to

1:09:08take away yeah okay i'm glad to hear it's on schedule is it on budget okay i guess might as

1:09:15well ask that at the same time okay and then my last point as a takeaway is i thought we did a

1:09:22really good job this year on communications in regards to the separateness or the decoupling

1:09:29of what's under the city's control what's not and having them staggered you know the the outside

1:09:35boards come in another time i think that went over very well the feedback i got from the community

1:09:40as they understood that a lot more based on like what is under our jurisdiction and what is not

1:09:46where i think we didn't meet the bar by accident was around communications of like what what is being

1:09:54cut so if we are looking into 2026 about different services impacts and things are being cut i think

1:10:02we need to do and turn me i need to do a bit better of a job in indicating like 15 million dollars was

1:10:09cut well what okay we all got an email today right about the waste management place being uh being

1:10:17looked at so it's it's but and that was a decision that we all were fine with but how are we going to

1:10:25how are we going to communicate cuts that are impacts to of service to the community if we go

1:10:31there in a in a little bit of a better way so that we're we're giving people a heads up on how to how

1:10:36those things are going to impact them um so i see some other hands when i'm almost done i'm going to

1:10:43just try to wrap up here if you don't mind and then i can just go to the last few comments and then

1:10:46take it from there uh but um i would just i would just say please keep to my council colleagues

1:10:53please keep keep the line of communication open i i'm sitting here today like i really am and

1:11:01struggling with like giving direction on a number um i'll have to just talk to staff and you all a

1:11:12little bit more on this because it is uh i almost i almost feel like to i you know here i am airing

1:11:18everything just in the public which is good for people to see but i i feel like maybe just saying

1:11:22like please staff just go do your very very best and come back like and just kind of just

1:11:28leave it at that a little bit but a goal is also important to try to reach too so anyways leave

1:11:33that with me i'm sorry i'm just thinking out loud um i just want to acknowledge uh councillor

1:11:40downer i really uh appreciated what you said um you know transit parks fees uh dominique you said

1:11:48fees things like that like these things these things are front of mind as well um so i appreciated

1:11:54that and saw staff's heads nodding a little bit too so thank you um and uh look i'll say

1:12:01councillor Caron you know sometimes on the financial part we can be a little opposite ends of things

1:12:06but you i can't i can't dismiss about the sort of the long-term thinking the the putting off

1:12:11stuff now for for later and the impacts would be worse later than now so all of this stuff is

1:12:17is is very real and i want to acknowledge it so i appreciate that too so it's going to be a tough

1:12:23go um may i ask this last question i'll turn it to you councillor oh and then to gibson as well

1:12:29um is there is there anything that you could be looking at now that is like an impact

1:12:42whether it's fte not current but like future fte positions this year that that wouldn't roll over

1:12:50into into 2026 um and or other 2026 that you could come back to council on so it starts to look at

1:13:02an actual reduction further into 2027 is there anything that's on the executive team horizon

1:13:07that could be impacted now okay tarot sorry i'm throwing this out uh totally random but um so

1:13:15so a couple things if you don't mind um specifically to that question i would say that if you recall

1:13:24last year around this time we did provide some of that um as a as an exit at some pausing and

1:13:33there was um significant um conversation around that and so if that is the direction of council

1:13:41that you would like us to look at pausing something that is currently been budgeted for 2025 so that

1:13:48it does not create an impact in 2026 i think i would look for direction to do that because um at

1:13:56this point we're implementing what was directed through the 2025 budget so i would look for for

1:14:01that type of direction from council um in that way um so at this point in time i don't have anything

1:14:08top of mind that that is uh that would be something that we're looking at given just

1:14:15we're implementing the 2025 budget and through the CAO objectives exactly what council's expecting

1:14:23if i could just go back to a few things that were were said um i just really want to say out loud

1:14:30that the increases over the past two years have not just been about inflation we've made significant

1:14:36investment in service enhancement and transit for example um and i think about you know even

1:14:43yesterday we talked about um the 80 increase that we've put into social housing and social

1:14:50services and those are not just inflationary those are new new units coming online and you know and

1:14:58just the opening of new parks that like we've had real growth and service enhancement investment

1:15:04over the past two years and what's projected in you know we've talked about Baker district

1:15:09the south and rec center we've already started those operating impacts being phased in so i will say

1:15:15we will absolutely look at all that and make sure that the timing and to to the points about

1:15:19inflation and updating our projections that'll be exactly what staff are doing between now and when

1:15:25you get the budget for uh in the fall is making sure and we're validating all those assumptions

1:15:30and we're pushing hard to to make sure that we've captured every reduction we can um and so i just

1:15:36wanted to say that out loud because that is exactly what we're doing um but uh but we have

1:15:41made investments beyond inflation um and that's really the the driver of a lot of the the tax

1:15:48increase so um so just before you kind of get into the final i just really wanted to clarify that

1:15:54that these these have not just been inflationary budgets i appreciate it uh some last comments i'll

1:16:01phil rodrigo and uh damp okay thank you very much maryk ethyl i want to tag on to you and

1:16:09miz baker but with a a bit of a caveat um i think maryk ethyl um you and miz baker have identified

1:16:18the problems very clearly but unfortunately we're not addressing the solution very well

1:16:25much of the problem that we have with our local boards and our services is a consequence of

1:16:30downloading and as long as we continue to accept that uh we become the depository for everything

1:16:38that the provincial government doesn't want to pay for we're going to continue to have the same

1:16:43issue i appreciate that yesterday we we established a reserve of a hundred thousand dollars and

1:16:50established a um uh proviso for how that would be distributed for social housing i think that's

1:16:57important but i don't think that we should necessarily uh cast dispersions on boards because

1:17:05some of the things that they're dealing with are really quite problematic uh we identify that we're

1:17:11putting money into housing because housing at the at the county level is an expensive proposition as

1:17:17our social services as is policing as our court services all of these were promised to be revenue

1:17:23neutral what we need to do is recognize and and the association municipalities of Ontario

1:17:30does as well we need a new deal from the province and the province must begin to upload many of

1:17:37these services the reason for that is that we are going to continue to see this uh because the boards

1:17:44have to do what they have to do they have a budget based upon what they must deliver so

1:17:51consequently have some sympathy for them and recognize that they've thrown the problem right

1:17:55back upon us when really the problem should be thrown on the provincial government yeah thank you

1:18:03thank you so much uh councillor Allt appreciate that uh uh sorry what do i say uh you bro bro

1:18:09bro okay and then finish off with Dan yeah uh thank you worship uh as we talked about possibly

1:18:15reducing uh levels of service i i am concerned i just want us to have the conversation uh when

1:18:22we have gone out in the past for master plans and we did the the sports and recreation master plan

1:18:29we had activities that you know we did engagement with youth with seniors and then we did not fund

1:18:36those activities um and then you know we went out and we engaged on the transportation master plan

1:18:42and then we did a lot of engagement we heard them back we approved master plans and then we've had

1:18:49to push out the timeline of implementation i i'm i'm looking to see if there is a way that we can

1:18:55have a better conversation with our community about uh you know and those master plan projects are

1:19:01sort of you know we've gone we've asked the questions but maybe if there is a way that the next master

1:19:05plan that we look at we actually look at the cost upfront i'm just really concerned that we're

1:19:10making promises to the community uh we're you know what we approve a master plan that has

1:19:1550 actions but then we end up not funding them uh that gives me a lot of concern um you know the

1:19:23one canopy three planting strategy wonderful but then when i got to actually funding it so so i'm

1:19:29wondering if if moving forward if we can find a better way to uh do master plan reviews and

1:19:35approvals at this point when we're looking at at having to possibly walk some of those things back

1:19:40now just just the thought thank you uh so yeah i'm happy to marry gathry through you to uh

1:19:49counselor goller there is an outstanding uh resolution of council related to some a question

1:19:55that we received uh during the last budget process to understand really uh how is the economic

1:20:00environment that we're uh working our way through impacting our ability to execute on some of our

1:20:05master plans and so you will see a report from us uh partnership it's a partnership of strategy and

1:20:11finance and you will see that report um mid-year this year i think it's june and then additionally

1:20:16i think you've asked a really good question which is something we're also taking away which is through

1:20:20the master planning process we sort of do these one at a time and how do they fit into the broader

1:20:25thinking of larger longer term strategic planning and budgeting and how do we bring a more costed

1:20:33series of options to council when we are bringing back master plans so i think the first phase of

1:20:38this work is really the level setting of where we are right now uh with those plans and then

1:20:43potentially some reorganizing of the timeline of when uh plans including the strategic plan

1:20:49are to come back to council so that we can better align the thinking the budgeting and the strategy

1:20:54process uh and then of course within the development of an individual master plan how does that work

1:21:00come to council in a way that fits the strategic plan and the budget process as well so you're

1:21:05right where we are thank you so much for that update i really appreciate hearing that i'm

1:21:09knowing that yet you're in the case thank you thanks okay councillor gibson dan you're bringing

1:21:17us home thank you thank you mr marion no final comment for me i just i forgot something i wanted

1:21:21to say during my during my comments and questions and i i'd be remiss if i didn't say it i'm not i'm

1:21:26sure staff are looking at this i just want to make sure it's been put out there um for those

1:21:32organizations homeowners um debt holders that have been ex-honey exposed to the the variable

1:21:38mortgage rate over the last two three years especially um there is an entire industry being

1:21:43built around debt financing especially with the bank of canada noting potential return to two percent

1:21:49which is a significant decrease in the in the lending rate um we have by chance two massive

1:21:56capital projects that i know we're debt financing um just maybe a moment for staff to take away i'm

1:22:01sure you are but be ready to uh to try and take advantage of those long-term debt um

1:22:08payments i again we don't we don't operate operate we carry debt on our capital projects

1:22:18so just being in position to refinance if the opportunity comes i know again as a mortgage

1:22:24owner myself um 2026 is the uh is the renewal time and uh many of us are looking at that

1:22:32as an opportunity to refinance especially for invariable rates again just leaving it with staff

1:22:37i know that it's something that you probably look at but again strategically we can talk about

1:22:41that from a budgeting perspective it may drop it may be able to drop operating costs for a while

1:22:45or debt repayment costs thank you um through the mayor if i could just respond we are bringing

1:22:51you a report on april cow um about debt issuance uh for this year so we are right there with you

1:23:01uh oh sorry uh councillor busett will you have a quick follow-up yes i just wanted to thank you

1:23:07for your comments on communication because i had a couple of comments i agree i like the local boards

1:23:12the timing the split that was very clear that was helpful um i think we need to tease out the

1:23:17downloaded costs um really more explicitly so that people make that connection there um and

1:23:25i'm wondering if it's a bottom up the services that you see that the city is paying for really

1:23:29should be done somewhere else um i was going to say to the mayor please schedule town halls

1:23:35early so like it doesn't matter what my calendar is like you you do your own calendar and i i make

1:23:41it so and then i'm communicating cuts the example that i've heard about is the free shredding um

1:23:48you know i've heard from households community organizations and small businesses about the

1:23:53impact about shredding and and uh i actually yesterday connected with the gulf tool library

1:23:58and suggested it might be a fundraiser for them to do twice a year for shredding uh for their

1:24:03organization and they're going to take that up but but that the cuts i would agree communicating the

1:24:09cuts sure just though for clarity i don't believe that was a budget cut that was because of the

1:24:18transition that the province did with the blue box i believe because that's recycling and that's

1:24:25being done elsewhere now so i don't want to own and i don't want to get angry emails of people

1:24:29saying the the mayor i told them all to email yes i'm sure you did yeah so there was other cuts

1:24:36for sure but i just don't think that one was uh fully on on us or me so um okay well thank you

1:24:43very much everyone um this is going to be an interesting year very interesting year oh one

1:24:50extra thing i wanted to just remind council about i've heard a few people say to me just a few

1:24:56people say to me over the last year you know i explained some of the very same things that we

1:25:02all can agree with downloading um you know higher inflation higher utility costs and fuel and stuff

1:25:10we are we are not immune to those things and then some of the commentary back was yeah but during

1:25:17covid you were able to reduce the budget down to like one two percent or whatever right and i

1:25:24think it's just important for all of us all of us to remember that one of the only reasons why we

1:25:28were able to do that other than some other upper levels of government funding was because between

1:25:342014-15 to when covid started we built up our our reserve by millions of dollars for when the

1:25:44rainy day happened that's what that reserve was supposed to be for and we rated that reserve for

1:25:51good reason to apply to the budgets over a couple of years to lower the impact for people during that

1:25:59chaos of of of covid and that so we did the right thing at the time we did the right thing at the

1:26:07time and we were able to get it down people are now trying to say well you did it there why can't

1:26:11you do it now well because that that that reserve is is is low we used it we used it for the first

1:26:17rainy day we got another storm coming now so i understand count uh sorry staff's position around

1:26:27the need to build up those reserves again because the only reason why we were in such a good position

1:26:31during covid was because we had those funds there staff i'm sorry am i saying anything wrong

1:26:36no okay but i'll stop there then okay tara yes um outside of that you said it all perfectly our

1:26:45reserves are very very low now because we have used our contingency um i just wanted to say one more

1:26:51thing just in response to um some of the comments and when we talk about the base budget because

1:26:58uh that's something that i've heard a number of times over the past number of years and how do we

1:27:03understand the value of what what we're delivering the service we're delivering that's included in the

1:27:09base one of the things um that was in the cao objectives is these the concept of um service

1:27:16profiles and that staff are going to come through the year and talk more about their operations and

1:27:21where their money is going um and what services they deliver at the front line and you know and

1:27:28to some of the comments and so i'd really hope that that council can really engage in those workshops

1:27:33you'll have one even this afternoon on the transportation the engineering transportation

1:27:37team they're going to go a little bit more into their budget overall and their the org structure

1:27:43we had one at winter the winter control one earlier this year and so you're going to have a

1:27:46couple more this year as well just so that we can dive in and and explain and provide that

1:27:53level of information so just wanted to say that out loud too is that that we have strategically

1:27:59put that type of information through the year it's very overwhelming to do it all at one time at

1:28:04budget and so please um take those opportunities to really think about um budget in those contexts

1:28:11as well as you start to to think about building towards the year end thank you very much all

1:28:18right this has been good for today we'll see what happens next week in an hour in a month

1:28:22whatever and we'll keep everybody in the loop communications wise there'll be full transparency

1:28:27about how things are moving forward okay um with that a motion to adjourn the workshop please

1:28:34we'll go with phil and leanne and anyone against that no okay the second workshop's at uh one o'clock

1:28:44thank you very much everyone bye