Heritage Advisory Committee

0:02And sadly, I'm usually the youngest to the roof.

0:05So.

0:06Hi, everybody.

0:11My name's Hart.

0:12This is my first year on this committee.

0:14I was previously on the natural heritage advisory committee.

0:17I'm finishing up PhD at the University in Chemistry.

0:21And I guess what brings me to heritage

0:23is I grew up in one of the, I grew up in the city of Peterborough

0:26in the third oldest home in the city

0:28and also worked construction on a different,

0:32I don't think it was actually heritage designated at the time

0:34but has since become designated in the city

0:37or instruction there for a couple years.

0:41My name is Liam Brown.

0:42I'm a professional archeologist in the province.

0:44So if we're not that since about 2011

0:48and this is my first year on the committee

0:50and I did some schooling in Peterborough.

0:52So I noticed well, nice.

0:54And we'll go over here to Justin.

0:55We'll get into staff introductions

0:57during their parts of their presentations.

0:58Go ahead, Justin.

0:59Okay.

1:00Hi, everybody.

1:01I'm Justin Granger.

1:02I'm the town of Aaron's deputy clerk.

1:06I came to know heritage through some work

1:08with the town's heritage committee

1:10and just an admiration for their work

1:13and the folks who participated in that committee.

1:15So I thought in my own guelph,

1:17I would try my hand at that.

1:19And this is my first time on the committee.

1:23All right.

1:24So I'm moving to item two, item 2.1

1:26which is the advisory committee of council,

1:27general roles, responsibilities and procedural training.

1:30And we have Garrett,

1:31who's our acting manager of legislative services

1:33slash deputy city clerk.

1:35And Garrett, I'll take it away.

1:37Great. Thanks, Craig.

1:38And before I jump into the presentation,

1:40I'll just introduce myself

1:41and introduce somebody who's not here to join us today,

1:44but will be in the future.

1:46So like Grady said, my name is Garrett.

1:48I'm the acting manager of legislative services

1:50and deputy clerk with the city of Guelph.

1:52I've been with Guelph for just over 10 years now

1:55and have supported all advisory committees of council

2:00for a number of years in this role.

2:01So looking forward to the,

2:03working with the new committee and everyone online here

2:05and really excited to see where we go.

2:09I also am going to introduce for everyone,

2:10Winnie Chan, who couldn't be with us today,

2:13but Winnie is the board and committee coordinator

2:15with the city of Guelph.

2:16And she's going to be the one

2:17that is going to be supporting the committee most times.

2:21We will always have somebody from the clerk's office here,

2:23but Winnie is tasked with supporting here

2:25at digital welfare at this time.

2:26So you'll see a lot of Winnie coming up in the future.

2:29Okay.

2:30If you have any questions about the committee,

2:33working with the clerk's office, anything like that,

2:35please feel free to reach out to Winnie or I.

2:37Okay.

2:38And now I will just jump into my presentation here.

2:41Give me a moment to put it up on screen.

2:51Okay.

2:53So today we're here to talk about advisory committees,

2:56legislative requirements, code of conduct,

2:58the lobbyist registry, terms of reference,

3:00roles and responsibilities, some procedural advice,

3:04agendas and just general best practices.

3:07There's going to be a lot coming at you today.

3:09I will try to be succinct and quick.

3:12What I will say is if you have any questions

3:13while we go through this,

3:14please feel free to just put up your hand and interrupt me.

3:17I'm happy to do it that way.

3:18Let's do it a little less formal.

3:19That way everyone can get what they need out of this.

3:23If you want me to spend more time on a topic

3:25or less time, you've already heard it.

3:27Everyone knows what we're doing.

3:28We can move on.

3:29Okay.

3:30But I really want this to be beneficial

3:30for everybody on the committee.

3:32So please feel free to interrupt

3:33and ask questions as we go.

3:35Okay.

3:37So, ACOCs, what are they?

3:40Why do we have them?

3:41What do they do?

3:43Big experiment democracy, hundreds of residents in Guelph,

3:46thousands of residents across Ontario,

3:49but ACOCs are really research are evaluated.

3:53So talking about the framework that we did,

3:55we've spent two years looking

3:58at the ACOC governance framework in the city of Guelph.

4:02This has culminated into the implementation

4:06of this heritage committee,

4:07as well as six other committees throughout the city of Guelph,

4:11all with very specific focused areas of work.

4:16Okay.

4:16We'll spend most of our time talking about heritage,

4:19but I will reference those other committees

4:21as we go through some of this introduction here.

4:23Okay.

4:25So how did we create the framework?

4:27The community engagement scholarships we brought together,

4:30academic and non-academic partners.

4:32So we worked with Guelph Labs,

4:36which is a resource out of the University of Guelph.

4:41Winnie, who you'll meet later,

4:43was working with the Guelph Lab as a research assistant

4:46and then transferred over to role with the city of Guelph.

4:50So there's a lot of knowledge from Winnie

4:51and others within the clerk's office.

4:54And that knowledge and the work that the Guelph Lab did

4:57in collaboration with all the advisory committees,

5:01our staff liaison, so we have here with us today,

5:04has contributed to this framework

5:07that we're implementing now.

5:11So some of the highlights of the framework,

5:12we have seven commitments.

5:14I'll just read them off here for you.

5:15So the ACOCs are a form of community engagement.

5:19They should help shape the city's strategic goals,

5:22should adopt a deliberate, deliberate response,

5:26contribute, live, and professional expertise.

5:28And as we go around the room,

5:29we've heard a lot of that, which is very exciting today.

5:32Should have a diverse membership.

5:34I just wanna highlight that this may be not as reflective

5:41in each individual committee,

5:42but if you look at the committees as a whole,

5:44they should represent the city of Guelph as a whole,

5:47and that's one of our goals.

5:49So maybe on heritage, we see a lot of professional designations

5:53that work experience related to that.

5:55And that isn't necessarily truly reflective of the committee,

5:58but if you look at our ACOCs as a whole,

6:00that's where we get that diversity,

6:01and that's where we're looking to match

6:03the diversity of our community, okay?

6:06Number six, they should be clear communication

6:08between ACOCs and city council.

6:11And then number seven, ACOCs should be adequately resourced.

6:17Some of the other highlights we wanna acknowledge

6:19about the framework are the six critical features.

6:23They are effective communication

6:24between ACOC members and city council.

6:27Staff liaisons with strategic level responsibilities, sorry.

6:33Clear up-to-date, regular, revisited terms of references.

6:36We're gonna talk a little bit more

6:37about your terms of reference later on in the presentation.

6:41New recruitment efforts to engage with

6:42and recruit diverse members for ACOCs.

6:46That one is currently unfunded,

6:47but we are doing a lot of work to bring that up to speed.

6:50It's part of the framework,

6:52and we're looking to onboard that in the near future.

6:56Compensation and coverage for participation

6:59related expenses, so again, currently unfunded,

7:02but if you look at the framework,

7:04there is recommendations there to

7:07at least cover participation in the ACOCs,

7:10and we are looking to move that work forward.

7:14And then again, have quick resources

7:16to support the full function of ACOCs, okay?

7:25Hi, Kelly, how's it going?

7:27Hi, sorry, I'm late.

7:29No problem at all.

7:29I'm just in the middle of a presentation right now.

7:32Feel free to stay muted.

7:34Garrett is just giving us an overview

7:36of legislative requirements of the committee.

7:39Perfect.

7:41Thanks, Grady.

7:44So a couple legislative requirements here.

7:46Just wanna go over them.

7:47Like I said at the very beginning,

7:49if you have any questions about some of this stuff,

7:50please feel free to reach out to the clerk's office.

7:52We'll always have people here to support as well

7:54and happy to answer any of these questions,

7:56but all meetings must be open to the public,

7:59all decisions of an ACOC must be made

8:01through resolution of the ACOC,

8:03and we'll talk about motions and voting

8:05and stuff like that later on.

8:07Where ACOC feedback is provided on a topic

8:10that is going before city council,

8:11all ACOC resolutions must be communicated

8:14in full to city council.

8:16Some of that falls on our staff liaisons here

8:18who are responsible for report writing.

8:21And then meeting notices and agendas

8:22must be published in advance of the meeting.

8:25Again, we'll go over agendas a little bit later,

8:27but I think the goal that we've committed to

8:30is at least one week prior to,

8:32to give the public and also ACOC members

8:35the ability to read and educate themselves

8:37prior to a meeting.

8:39And then meeting minutes must be posted publicly

8:41following meetings.

8:43So we do that in two different ways this city of wealth.

8:45One is the resolutions that are passed,

8:48that are captured in minutes are approved,

8:50just like you did here earlier today.

8:52Those will live on the specific ACOC's websites

8:57and calendars as well as those minutes are published

8:59in what we call an information report to council

9:02on a weekly basis.

9:03So they'll have access to those in that way.

9:05Okay.

9:08So what is a meeting?

9:09A meeting is what we're doing here today.

9:11We are talking about the work that Heritage Guelph does

9:16with a quorum of the membership.

9:18So right now we have nine members on the committee.

9:21So quorum is five and we can have a meeting

9:24with any more than that.

9:26Okay.

9:27We wanna highlight here that if for whatever reason

9:31five or more of you are out in the community

9:33and you're talking about heritage attributes

9:35or heritage items that constitutes a meeting.

9:39And we would ask that you were trained from doing so

9:42unless we have gone through the proper public notice.

9:46We have staff there to support and all that sort of stuff.

9:49It does not mean that five or more of you

9:51cannot participate in Guelph or in activities.

9:54It's just the content that you are talking about

10:00can't be heritage-guelph related.

10:02Okay.

10:06So how does the ACOC provide feedback to staff?

10:09Okay, so that's a question.

10:10Oh, I'm sorry.

10:11Yeah, I mean, I spent a lot of time talking

10:14about heritage buildings here.

10:15Yeah.

10:16Are you talking about just controversial issues or?

10:20No, so it's the discussion of any business

10:25that would be related to the Heritage Advisory Committee.

10:28Oh yeah, I think all those are good.

10:30But also it has to have at least five or more people

10:32from the committee in that conversation.

10:36So I think with those caveats,

10:38you're probably pretty safe most of the time.

10:40Okay, but if you ever run into a situation

10:42where you have a question about that,

10:44please feel free to reach out and give me the advice.

10:46Okay.

10:48So how does the ACOC provide feedback to staff and council?

10:51The only way that the ACOC can provide formal feedback

10:55is through a resolution.

10:56Okay.

10:57Resolutions must be moved and seconded,

10:59very similar to how we move the minutes today.

11:01A simple 50% plus one majority of members present

11:04is all that's needed to improve a resolution.

11:07Okay.

11:08Comments given from an individual member

11:10do not constitute formal feedback to staff or city council.

11:13So we wanna highlight this

11:15because when we move forward with resolutions,

11:18we wanna capture everything that each committee member

11:22is trying to provide to staff or to council.

11:25And the best way to do that is to include that

11:27in resolutions.

11:28So clerk's office staff, staff leaders on can support

11:31with that where we have, for example,

11:35that the following comments received

11:37be communicated to council in the staff report

11:40and we can outline those comments

11:41or we can have more general resolutions

11:43that just include everything that was discussed.

11:46We'll go over some of the good and bad resolutions later on,

11:50but we just want to acknowledge here

11:52that the only way that you can provide feedback

11:54to council is through resolutions.

11:56Okay.

12:01How is ACOC feedback communicated to staff and council?

12:05So it's directly through staff to city council

12:08in those staff reports that we were talking about.

12:10Advice from ACOC to staff can be made

12:13through resolutions at a meeting

12:14and no further reporting is required.

12:16Advice from ACOC, from an ACOC about an item

12:20that requires city council approval

12:22must be included in full in the relevant staff report.

12:25And that's where your staff liaisons are gonna come in

12:28and support with that work.

12:30And then advice from an ACOC to city council

12:32on an item not scheduled to go before city council

12:35is communicated through the posting of the minutes

12:37and those weekly information items that we discussed.

12:39Okay.

12:42Now we'll get into code of conduct

12:44for city council on local boards.

12:46So the code of conduct includes a lot of information

12:50and all of it applies to city council.

12:53Some of it applies to ACOC members.

12:55Okay.

12:57It is your duty to read and follow the code of conduct.

13:01But if you have questions about it,

13:03we have staff available who can help with that.

13:05Also our integrity commission, excuse me,

13:09can provide advice if you have any questions.

13:11Okay.

13:12Some of the items that are relevant for ACOC members

13:14in the code of conduct, gifts and benefits,

13:17confidentiality, conduct, influence on staff,

13:21improper use of influence and conflicts of interest.

13:24I just wanna highlight that bottom one,

13:25their conflicts of interest.

13:27That is probably the one that will impact ACOC members

13:31the most, okay?

13:33And if you need any advice on how to navigate those items,

13:35please feel free to reach out.

13:38Next is the lobbyist registry.

13:40City of Guelph just implemented a lobbyist registry

13:44in full January of this year.

13:48And sorry, just wanna get my notes prepared here.

13:53And it is something that impacts both council,

13:55city staff and ACOC members, okay?

14:00A high level overview, the lobbyist or the individual

14:04whose lobbying is responsible for adhering

14:06to the lobbyist bylaw, okay?

14:09There's no bonus on an ACOC member to understand

14:12or enforce that bylaw.

14:14But please understand that you could be lobbied, okay?

14:17And a short, succinct way of saying

14:21is anyone who has the ability to influence a decision

14:26where they could receive financial benefit

14:30could be considered lobbying.

14:31So how that may relate to heritage is,

14:36let's say for example, staff are bringing forward

14:39a notice of intention to designate recommendation

14:43and you receive communication from somebody

14:45who's related to that property in some way, shape or form

14:48who could financially benefit from that designation

14:51or non-designation of the property

14:53that could be considered lobbying.

14:55There are many resources on our city website

14:58on what is lobbying, what do we consider not lobbying

15:02as well as contact information for Suzanne Craig

15:04who is our lobbyist registrar

15:06who can provide that final advice on those items, okay?

15:11Terms of reference, so a little bit of an overview here

15:15in your terms of reference, there's your mandate,

15:18there's information about your composition

15:19and your meeting schedule and format.

15:21And then there's an outline of the one year review timeline.

15:25This one's going to be new for all members,

15:29not just new members, but even returning members.

15:32We are going to be reviewing in reference each year

15:36to ensure compliance with the governance framework,

15:39the strategic goals and what we'll touch on later

15:44is also the self-assessment review tool

15:47that we're going to develop as a committee, okay?

15:50Staff will help lead you through all of that work,

15:52but this will be a little bit different

15:54for those who've had experience before with Guelph Committees

15:57and for those of you who are new,

15:58it'll be a new experience as well, okay?

16:04Little bit of information about roles of staff liaison

16:07that will get into roles of the clerk's office

16:09and roles of ACOC members.

16:11I'm not going to go through everything here,

16:13it is listed in the terms of reference,

16:15but just understand that we have clearly defined

16:18those roles in our framework,

16:20and we want to ensure that we're adhering to those roles

16:23to ensure the operations of the committees are expected

16:29and can be relied on and are in line with the framework, okay?

16:34We talked about some of this for the clerk's office

16:37and how we can support,

16:38and then the role of ACOC members here.

16:42Really what I want to highlight is being prepared, okay?

16:46Coming to meetings, prepared with motions,

16:49prepared with questions, reading the material beforehand,

16:52understanding what's being asked of you,

16:55understanding your role,

16:57that is really the best way you can support the committee

17:00and how you can participate in the committee.

17:02And like I said, if you have any questions,

17:03we are here to help, we are here to support,

17:06we don't want you to feel like you don't have everything

17:08you need to participate in this committee, okay?

17:13Basic meeting procedures.

17:14So we talked about this a little bit.

17:18ACOCs must abide by the city's procedural bylaw

17:21and the meeting procedures.

17:23Again, we rely on these parliamentary procedures

17:26to ensure fairness and equitability in decision-making, okay?

17:31We've also highlighted this many times before,

17:34but ACOCs can only formally advise staff through resolutions.

17:38We are here to support with that,

17:40and 90% of what we're talking about here is a motion,

17:43it's moved, a motion is seconded,

17:45we have discussion debate around that motion,

17:48and then that motion is voted on either in favor or not, okay?

17:55Resolutions.

17:56So we have some examples of good resolutions here.

18:00They highlight the topic,

18:02they highlight attachments or information,

18:05they know approval or satisfaction with, they know dates.

18:10So there's some good examples there,

18:11you all have access to this.

18:13We are happy to help support writing of these resolutions,

18:17and then we also have some examples

18:19of not so great resolutions.

18:22Not a lot of information here, no dates included,

18:25very short, and not easily understood

18:29for someone who wasn't participating in the meeting, okay?

18:35Agendas, like we mentioned,

18:37we'd like to have these publicly posted

18:39about one week prior to a meeting.

18:41You would have all received this agenda

18:43when you received the meeting invite for today,

18:46for today's meeting, it's also is posted on golf.ca, okay?

18:51In terms of how agendas are managed,

18:53staff will come forward with items for an agenda.

18:56They could be items that have legislative requirements

19:00in terms of timelines or deadlines.

19:02They could be items that are forthcoming

19:04that we want to provide information on,

19:06or they could be items that are added by a member

19:09of the committee or the chair,

19:11that that ability is there for the chair,

19:14and we can help facilitate that

19:15if that is the desire of the committee, okay?

19:21And then like I said, we're here to help.

19:24Please feel free to reach out to us at any time

19:26for any information.

19:28We want to ensure that this committee is run successfully.

19:31There are a lot of changes with the framework.

19:33It'd be a little bit different for those who are used to,

19:36for those who are used to it before,

19:38and those who are new,

19:39we want to make sure you feel like you're up to speed

19:41and you can handle everything that's being required of you

19:43as an ACLC member, okay?

19:46So I'll stop sharing now,

19:47and if there are any questions, I'm happy to support.

19:51Otherwise, we can move on with our agenda.

19:56Questions from the members attending online?

20:01Yeah, all right.

20:02So we'll move on to our next topic,

20:04which is item 2.2,

20:07Heritage Policy and Legislation Orientation,

20:09and I'll hand it over to Jack.

20:12Thank you, Grady.

20:14I think before I pull up my slides,

20:16I'll do a round of introductions

20:18for the Heritage Planning staff in the room.

20:24So I'm Jack Mallen,

20:26Heritage Planner with the City since June, 2022,

20:31and I'm the staff liaison to the Heritage Committee.

20:33So as Garrett described,

20:37my role is really to facilitate

20:40both communication between members,

20:43and staff as well as guidance on any procedure

20:51with the Heritage Act, for example,

20:53or with projects that we're doing,

20:55or reports that we bring you.

20:58Basically, anytime you have a question about anything,

21:00I'm happy to assist.

21:03And for me, I think communication between members

21:07and between staff is really fundamental

21:10to having a healthy advisory committee.

21:14So I'll turn it over to Stephen Robinson.

21:19Hey, thanks, Jack.

21:20I'm Stephen Robinson,

21:22and I'm the senior Heritage Planner.

21:25Don, don't worry, there's other people of real age

21:28and experience in the room.

21:32But we're always learning, which is essential.

21:36I started at the city of 2009.

21:40So it's been said that I hold a certain amount

21:43of corporate knowledge, which is always important to maintain.

21:48But I'm still really pleased to be working with,

21:51especially with the Heritage Team,

21:53and now as opposed to being the only Heritage Planner

21:56for some years.

21:58So there's lots that needs to be done,

22:00and lots can be done, especially with great assistance

22:03that an advisory committee can give.

22:07The three of us all handle just about everything,

22:11as far as heritage planning requirements.

22:14But my particular big project at the moment

22:17is the Interreformatory Heritage Conservation District

22:21project manager of that.

22:24And I think I'm known,

22:27I've been in the three of us,

22:29as a bit of an architectural historian,

22:31which I'm quite happy to be known as.

22:33So, Don, I appreciate your experience,

22:37and I really want to tap into yours

22:39and all the other members experience this well.

22:42So I'll hand it over to Imogen.

22:51Don't know where I exist now

22:53in the digital and physical space.

22:56My name is Imogen Goldie.

22:58I am the newest member of the Heritage Planning Team.

23:01I joined in August of 2024.

23:05Educationally, I have a background

23:06in architectural history and community planning.

23:11And before joining this team here,

23:14I've worked as a Heritage Planner,

23:15both for provincial government in British Columbia,

23:19nonprofit in British Columbia,

23:21and municipal governments in Nova Scotia.

23:24So interesting to see both ends of the country

23:28through a heritage lens specifically.

23:33Passing to Jill.

23:38Can you guys hear me okay?

23:41Okay, awesome.

23:42So I'm Jillian Sanders.

23:45I'm really new to the team.

23:47I joined in kind of the end of April,

23:50this year.

23:52I'm coming from a background of majoring in history

23:55and museum studies at the University of Guelph.

23:59I got my convocation next week, which is really exciting.

24:03But I have been with the city for a while.

24:06I was working with Guelph museums for close to three years.

24:11So I'm really excited to work with everyone

24:15and the committee.

24:16And I've been having lots of fun already.

24:21Thank you, Jill.

24:23Just bear with me as I share my screen.

24:38Okay.

24:41So over the next 20 or so minutes,

24:45we're gonna have a crash course

24:46and provincial legislation that we'll be dealing with,

24:53city of Guelph, Heritage Policy,

24:56as well as the role of municipal advisory committees

25:02within the heritage ecosystem in Guelph.

25:06We'll also touch briefly on bill 23,

25:09which has really defined our word plan

25:12in heritage planning over the last two years.

25:15And lastly, I'll provide an overview of the current projects

25:19that we are working on because for new members,

25:23you're kind of joining in the middle

25:25of some multi-year projects.

25:26So I'll do my best to give an overview

25:29of everything it is that we're doing right now.

25:36To begin, this is a quote from Heritage Planning

25:40by Kalman and Luterno.

25:42If you're interested in learning more about heritage planning,

25:46it's really the Bible of heritage planning.

25:50It's the only textbook that exists on the subject.

25:54And I appreciate this quote because it really

25:59exemplifies what a heritage planner is tasked with doing,

26:03which is seeking solutions to the loss of a historic place.

26:08And I think that's important because a lot of what we do,

26:13either as staff or what we bring you to the committee,

26:16involves a lot of compromise

26:18between seemingly competing interests, right?

26:21So often we have development on one side

26:25and conservation on the other.

26:27And marrying those two in the middle

26:28can be very challenging sometimes,

26:31but heritage planning does this in a non-activist

26:34and non-confrontational manner to the best of our ability.

26:39I have a copy of this book

26:40and I'm happy to lend it to any members.

26:43So feel free to ask me if you'd like to borrow it.

26:50So we deal with many types of cultural heritage

26:56in the city and in this committee.

26:58So most of what we bring you will likely be buildings,

27:02but it's important to remember that,

27:04we have landscapes, ruins, archaeological sites,

27:09natural features.

27:11It's really important when we're thinking

27:13about cultural heritage resources

27:14to expand from just the log house

27:18or the stone town hall.

27:21There's really a wide spectrum of things

27:25that can be considered cultural heritage resources.

27:31So we primarily work with the Ontario Heritage Act.

27:36Now, if you want to,

27:38something that'll put you to bed at night,

27:40you can try reading it.

27:43But I'm going to be after this meeting,

27:46I'm going to be sending out an email

27:47with lots of resources and attachments.

27:50And so I'll send you a link to the Heritage Act

27:53as well as the sections that we use the most

27:58as heritage planners.

28:00Every, all the advice we give to council

28:03has to align with the Heritage Act.

28:04So it's good to be familiar with it.

28:11The Heritage Act enables cities to maintain

28:14what's called a municipal heritage register.

28:17So this is generally a list of properties in Guelph.

28:22We have about 2,000 properties listed on the register.

28:26And this is kind of the lowest tier of heritage status

28:30that exists in Ontario.

28:33Heritage registers recognize a property's heritage value.

28:38The primary requirement of being listed on a register

28:41is that if you intend to demolish the property,

28:44you have to give the city 60 days notice

28:46prior to your intention to demolish.

28:49That's 60 days gives the city time to evaluate

28:52whether the property merits designation,

28:56which is the only way that a city

28:58could refuse a demolition permit.

29:03Now I will address this a little later on,

29:05but bill 23 will be removing all non-designated properties

29:12from municipal registers at the end of 2026.

29:16So we stand to lose approximately 80%

29:20of our municipal register in just a year and a half now.

29:24So that's kind of been the defining piece of legislation

29:29that has influenced our work plan over the last two years.

29:37Designation, so because we're losing our municipal register,

29:41we are going full steam ahead on designation.

29:46So designation is one of those things

29:49that has a bit of a bad rap.

29:52I think people, the public tend not to understand

29:57what it does do and what it does not do,

30:00but what it does do is fundamentally,

30:02and I think this is most important,

30:04it publicly recognizes a property's cultural heritage value.

30:09It can promote good stewardship and conservation,

30:13and through the protections

30:16that it can give to aspects of the property,

30:19it can protect a property's heritage value

30:21for future generations.

30:24It prohibits alteration, demolition, and removal

30:27without the consent of a municipality

30:29through the heritage permit process.

30:34What designation does not do,

30:36it does not prevent the sale of a property

30:39or prevent a property from fulfilling a use

30:43other than its historical use.

30:45It does not permit public access to the property.

30:49And lastly, and I think this is most fundamental for me,

30:52it does not prevent change to a property.

30:56I wouldn't really have a job

30:59if designation prevented change to a property

31:02because a lot of what we do is heritage permits,

31:06which are all about guiding change to a property.

31:13So within designation, we have parts four,

31:18which is individual designation and part five,

31:21which is district designation.

31:23So individual designation just means

31:26the designation of a singular property,

31:28whereas district designation is all of the properties

31:32within a defined boundary are considered designated.

31:37So right now we have one heritage district in the city,

31:40that's the Brooklyn and College Hill Heritage District,

31:44but we are presently working on three more heritage districts.

31:49So soon to be a much expanded inventory

31:54of heritage districts in the city of rural.

31:59So to be individually designated,

32:01a property must meet two of following nine criteria.

32:07I'm emphasizing this because this year,

32:11a majority of the reports that are being brought

32:13to the committee, like likely about 70 to 80%

32:17of the reports that you'll be asked to review

32:19are reports for individual designations.

32:24So the criteria is Ontario Regulation 906.

32:28So like the Heritage Act,

32:29I'd recommend you become familiar with this

32:32as it will be relevant in every meeting that we have.

32:39Probably the criteria are divided into three subsets.

32:42So you have designer physical value,

32:45historical or associative value and contextual value.

32:48And so those three categories each have three criteria

32:54and you need to have two in order to designate a property.

33:02We'll have an opportunity to discuss these more

33:04as we bring forward individual designations.

33:07I find that's often the best way to get an understanding

33:10of how something does or does not meet the criteria.

33:14But what the province instructs for heritage planners

33:18is that when I say something meets the criteria

33:23that it'd be defensible at the Ontario Land Tribunal,

33:26which if a property is designated by council

33:30and then there is an appeal,

33:31it goes to the Ontario Land Tribunal.

33:33And so when I'm evaluating a property,

33:36that's the threshold that I have in mind

33:38is can I defend this statement of significance

33:43if questioned at an Ontario Land Tribunal here?

33:50So within a designation by law,

33:54heritage attributes of a property are identified.

33:57So these are the parts of the property

34:00that are protected through the bylaw.

34:02And these features are all significant

34:06in contributing to a property's heritage value.

34:10Alteration of these attributes

34:13requires an approved heritage permit.

34:18But maintenance repair, restoration or conservation

34:21do not require a permit.

34:26So heritage permits,

34:28that's another significant thing

34:30that the committee will be dealing with.

34:33And this is how the city is enabled to manage change

34:36to designated cultural heritage resources.

34:40So a good example of something

34:43that would have required a heritage permit

34:44is the construction of new city hall

34:47using the Ontario Winter Fair building.

34:50And I think this is a really good example

34:53of how heritage designation does not prevent change

34:56because this is quite a massive change.

35:00But the new building incorporated the facade

35:04of the old building.

35:05And so we have an evolved property

35:10that both accomplishes the needs of development

35:13and the needs of conservation.

35:21Heritage policy at the city of Guelph

35:23is outlined in official plan section 4.8.

35:28I will note that we're in the process

35:30of updating this section

35:32because there have been so many changes

35:35to provincial policy and legislation.

35:37We need to make sure that our official plan aligns with that.

35:40And so as soon as next month,

35:43actually we'll be bringing forward the proposed changes

35:46to this section of the official plan

35:50for the committee's review.

35:53We also at the city have what we've called

35:56the cultural heritage action plan.

35:58So that was approved by council in 2021, I believe.

36:04And so it is most significant for outlining

36:08the heritage districts that we are working on.

36:12It identified 29, I believe,

36:15candidate cultural heritage districts in the city.

36:19And it prioritized them based on different criteria.

36:24It also made recommendations for heritage planning

36:29in the city of Guelph,

36:30including the creation of financial incentives

36:33for designated properties.

36:35So I highly recommend that everyone read

36:38the cultural heritage action plan

36:39and I will circulate that in my email following this meeting.

36:47I thought I'd try and give a snapshot

36:49of how heritage planning fits

36:52within the institution of the city.

36:57So we are within the infrastructure development

37:00and environment department,

37:03which then goes into planning and building services,

37:08the policy planning unit,

37:10and then heritage planning is within policy planning.

37:15And Krista Wachie is the general manager

37:18of planning and building services.

37:21And you will get to know her over the course of your term.

37:30So this is language taken directly

37:32from the province of Ontario's Heritage Toolkit.

37:37So they actually just released this.

37:40I think the first one was published in 2005.

37:44They removed it from their website for a number of years

37:47as they worked on a new one.

37:48And just a couple of weeks ago,

37:50they released the new Heritage Toolkit.

37:53So the Toolkit provides advice

37:57on a range of municipal heritage planning topics,

38:01but there is a whole pamphlet dedicated

38:04to heritage advisory committees.

38:08So basically the purpose of the Heritage Advisory Committee

38:13is to provide advice to council.

38:17I won't go through each of these bullets,

38:21but I think

38:28collaboration communication is key,

38:33both between members and to staff.

38:40I'm gonna read this.

38:41This is from the terms of reference,

38:43which was approved in March, 2025.

38:46So the Heritage Advisory contributes strategic input

38:49and advice to city council and city staff

38:51on matters pertaining to conservation

38:53and cultural heritage resources in the city of Guelph,

38:56including identifying, protecting,

38:58conserving, promoting cultural heritage resources

39:01in the community through designation,

39:03education and stewardship.

39:05Within its advisory mandate,

39:07the ACOC cannot direct city council or city staff.

39:10However, the city of Guelph is committed

39:12to taking each ACOC's advice seriously

39:16and adhering to the mandate and legislative requirements

39:19for operating the ACOC.

39:22So again, I recommend everyone read the terms of reference.

39:27It'll give you a really thorough outline

39:29of what's expected of the committee

39:31and the committee's relationship

39:33to both council and city staff.

39:36So something I'd like to emphasize is that

39:40it's likely that staff and the committee

39:42will not always agree on everything.

39:46And that is healthy.

39:47That is the way it should be.

39:49Otherwise we would not need advisory committees.

39:53And sometimes council chooses a path

39:57that's different than what staff

39:59and the committee is recommending as well.

40:02So just recognizing this,

40:04that what we have at the city are,

40:09it's an ecosystem, right?

40:11And it all comes out in the wash when it goes to council

40:13and council considers other city priorities

40:16as well as the advice of staff and the heritage committee.

40:23So this is a bit of a tip of the iceberg,

40:26but I like to call it Wolf's Heritage Ecosystem

40:30because there are a variety of groups and interests

40:33that all contribute to heritage conservation

40:36and education in the city.

40:39So we have city council,

40:41they make the decisions when it comes to heritage planning,

40:45whether on designation, demolition,

40:47some heritage permits or removal properties

40:50from the municipal register.

40:52The Heritage Advisory Committee provides heritage advice

40:55to city council and staff.

40:58Heritage planning, similar staff,

41:00similarly provide advice to city council.

41:03Now I put expert opinion here

41:06and that's not because I think that staff

41:08have expert opinion and the committee does not,

41:10but staff may be called upon to attend

41:13the Ontario Land Tribunal where we'll have to provide

41:16witness statements with our expert opinion.

41:20The public provide feedback on heritage projects

41:24through engagement,

41:26they can delegate to the Heritage Advisory Committee

41:28and they can delegate to council.

41:31And lastly, advocacy groups advocate for the conservation

41:36of cultural heritage resources in the city of Guelph.

41:40So there's other elements of the Heritage Ecosystem

41:44I didn't include here.

41:46There's neighborhood associations and community groups,

41:51professional organizations, the university,

41:56departments and students.

41:58So it is definitely an ecosystem

42:02and we all have kind of different roles

42:04and they're all important in their own way.

42:09Okay, the meat and potatoes.

42:13In 2022, the provincial government passed

42:16the More Homes Built Faster Act,

42:18which made changes to the Heritage Act.

42:21So previously in order to designate a property,

42:24it only required one of the nine criteria to be met,

42:28but they raised the threshold

42:30to two of the nine designation criteria.

42:35And most concerning for us is the impending removal

42:40of all non-designated properties

42:42from the municipal register.

42:44So this was initially supposed to be at the end of 2024,

42:502025, 2025, sorry, the last few years

42:55have been a blur because of this,

42:59but due to pressure from municipalities

43:02writing letters to the province,

43:04they extended it by two years to the end of 2026.

43:08So we do have a reprieve

43:09to continue designating more properties.

43:14Once removed from the register,

43:16property cannot be added again for five years

43:20and any properties added to the municipal register

43:24that are non-designated can only remain there for two years.

43:28So essentially what the municipal register has become

43:32is a wait list for properties

43:34that the city intends to designate.

43:41So with bill 23 and the loss of our municipal register,

43:46this has really influenced our work plan

43:50for the last two and a half years.

43:54So we immediately initiated

43:59a Heritage Conservation District project in the downtown.

44:03The Ontario Reformatory Heritage District

44:05was initiated prior to bill 23

44:09and council also instructed staff

44:13to initiate the word West Heritage Conservation District.

44:18So I think the Heritage Conservation District strategy

44:21is fruitful because out of one project,

44:24we will get hundreds of designated properties.

44:27And so that's where a lot of staff's effort has gone

44:32over the last two and a half years.

44:34Stephen is the project manager

44:36of the Ontario Reformatory, HCD.

44:39Imogen is project managing the downtown wealth HCD

44:42and I am project managing the word West HCD.

44:47For individual designations,

44:50so last year we council passed 14

44:57notices of intention designate,

44:59which was the most in the city's history.

45:03But staff learned a lot of lessons

45:05in doing so many designations.

45:08And last year we streamlined the designation process.

45:14And so we're optimistic now

45:16that we're going to achieve 50 notices of intention

45:20to designate by the end of the year.

45:23So this is facilitated in part by a call for property owners

45:28to volunteer their properties for designation

45:30that was sent out in February

45:32and from which we received 80 responses

45:35with people interested in having their properties evaluated.

45:39So this year we have a combination of properties

45:42that staff are proactively designating

45:45because or recommending to council for designation

45:48because of their architectural historical significance

45:51as well as properties that owners

45:53have volunteered for designation.

45:57And lastly there as I've alluded to earlier

45:59we have an official plan update

46:02to bring the city's official plan into alignment

46:05with provincial policy.

46:10Okay, that was a whirlwind.

46:13Thank you.

46:14I'm gonna invite Steven and Imogen to chime in

46:17on anything that I may have missed

46:20but also any questions from members

46:22about anything that I just mentioned.

46:32I would thank you, Jack.

46:34That was a lot of information to cover and expand.

46:38The good news is that we'll have time with committee

46:41to review these things and reuse these things

46:45so that it will become like second nature to all of us.

46:48I'm glad you mentioned Kalman and Eternals book.

46:52It's a good source.

46:54And also I'm glad that you mentioned the difference

46:57or alluded to the difference between an advisor

47:01and an advocate.

47:02That's really important to understand.

47:06Changes, well some people would say change is inevitable

47:10but sometimes change can also involve conservation

47:15and it can enable a property owner

47:18to do the right things as well.

47:20So that's, I really pride myself in how City of Guelph

47:23has helped a lot of property owners to do both.

47:29Just one correction and I'm not looking

47:33for to make corrections but I think it's important

47:36to understand of the cultural action plan.

47:39It was really one of its main goals was to identify

47:43the candidate cultural heritage landscapes across the city.

47:48Some of which and some of you may already know

47:51one type of cultural heritage landscape is a heritage,

47:54could be a heritage conservation district

47:56but there are other landscapes

47:58that don't involve residential areas

48:01or downtown buildings, that sort of thing.

48:03And I'm thinking of something like the quarry area

48:07of the reform jury.

48:08That's a really significant cultural heritage landscape

48:11that's in some ways is natural but it's also man-made.

48:15So that's when it gets even more interesting

48:18when you get that sort of mix in that type

48:22of cultural heritage in the city.

48:26Well, as people know, I have lots to talk about

48:32when you get me talking about heritage conservation

48:34but I'll defer to others.

48:42And I don't think I can add a great deal

48:45to what's already been said.

48:47And I like Steven's clarification.

48:50Just our understanding of heritage, heritage assets

48:54and cultural heritage specifically has sort of gone beyond

48:59built heritage and we do grapple with challenging things

49:04like cultural practice and intangible cultural heritage.

49:08So it can get really interesting

49:16but also really, really challenging.

49:17And happy to have a lot of varied perspectives

49:21and a lot of varied input on these puzzles.

49:28And any questions from members?

49:33I would ask one Jack.

49:35I'm curious to know, I expect given that there's

49:38an upcoming statutory deadline

49:41where after which there will be a delisting

49:43of properties that aren't designated,

49:45your team has done some work to prioritize

49:49which properties you're gonna designate by that deadline.

49:52I'm curious to know if that's the case

49:53and if you could describe that a bit for me.

49:56Are there properties in classes?

49:57Like the very best one should be designated first,

50:00the most significant one, so to speak,

50:02or what's your approach in terms of the work plan

50:04for the kind of things we'll be considering?

50:07That's a great question.

50:09So we do have, we've done a number

50:13of prioritization exercises since bill 23 was passed.

50:18And so we have a master list of properties

50:23that we think would be good candidates for designation.

50:26That's about 150 or 160 properties

50:30that we narrowed it down to.

50:32And then within that, we have created different categories

50:36for properties that A, I think that the number one way

50:40we prioritize is risk.

50:43And so how much development pressure is there on a property

50:48or is a property at risk of demolition through neglect?

50:55Once risk is ruled out, we then judge properties

50:58based on their combined ability to meet the criteria

51:04which is generally done through historical

51:07and design criteria.

51:11Contextual criteria can be a little harder to articulate

51:16without doing more research on property or the neighborhood.

51:22But I'm glad you asked that question

51:23because something we anticipate bringing

51:26to the July meeting is a designation work plan

51:29for the remainder of the year

51:32so that the committee has an idea of what we will be bringing

51:35and when we anticipate bringing it.

51:38We need some flexibility with that

51:40because a lot of designations,

51:45they involve the property owners and staff

51:53and the property owner that can sometimes delay

51:56or sometimes fast track a designation.

51:59So what we bring you won't be set in stone

52:00but it'll provide a guide of what designations

52:03you can expect to see and when.

52:08Do the conservation districts protect against the premiers

52:13against bill 23?

52:16Because you probably do swaths and buildings that way

52:19if it does.

52:21Yeah, yes.

52:21So any property within a district

52:24is still designated under part five.

52:27So it's still protected through the planning guidelines

52:30of the conservation district.

52:32Yeah.

52:36I have a silly question.

52:38No such thing.

52:40There is a deadline of I'm arguing December 31st of 2026.

52:46Any places that are on your list

52:49or I believe you just said 150 ish

52:51and yours wants to just,

52:52can you remove them on December 31st?

52:54Have them not be on the list that gets removed

52:58on January 1st and then put them back on to buy yourself.

53:01It's funny because the city of Ottawa

53:03actually started doing that as soon as bill 23 came out.

53:07They started removing things from the municipal register

53:10so that deadline would not apply.

53:13But then the province got wise to that.

53:15And I think that's a very nice little problem.

53:22Good thinking.

53:24Yeah.

53:24We're fast.

53:28Is the heritage branch going to disappear along

53:31with all of this?

53:34I hope not.

53:36No, I don't mean you guys.

53:37I mean, one at Queens Park.

53:40So I used to work in the heritage planning unit

53:45at the Ministry of Heritage, Sport, Tourism.

53:49I can't remember what it's called.

53:50It's Ministry of Citizenship and Multicultural.

53:53Changes are changing the name.

53:57I don't anticipate it's going anywhere

54:00as long as the Heritage Act is not repealed.

54:03The fingers crossed.

54:05But the province has announced

54:07that it is currently reviewing the Heritage Act.

54:12They haven't released any more details as to what that means,

54:14but we're holding our breath to see what comes next.

54:21Thought I'd ask as well, just for my own information,

54:24the difference between alteration and restoration,

54:28so you're dealing with folks.

54:29So I noted that you only require a heritage permit

54:32in cases of alteration.

54:33And just if you could describe from you

54:35what constitutes alteration

54:36versus those other kind of descriptors

54:38for changes to property.

54:39Yeah, yeah, that's also a good question.

54:42So restoration, maintenance, or conservation,

54:47different but more or less the same.

54:49They mean, so restoration,

54:53we bring something back to its more original appearance.

54:59Conservation would be maintaining something,

55:04like or conservation could actually mean restoration as well.

55:07They're related to similar terms.

55:10And then maintenance would be like painting a porch,

55:13for example.

55:15So something that's not going to negatively impact

55:19or something that's not going to impact a period,

55:22a heritage attribute doesn't require a heritage permit.

55:27Something, an example of something that would.

55:29So if the stone walls on a stone house

55:33were considered a heritage attribute,

55:37if somebody wanted to put a new window in that wall,

55:40that would require a heritage permit

55:42because that would alter the heritage attribute.

55:45So the attributes are defined.

55:48And if you're not messing with the attributes,

55:49you don't require a heritage permit.

55:51That's right.

55:52And that's something many of our older designation bylaws,

56:00they can identify pretty minimal heritage attributes.

56:03And so oftentimes property owners will come to us

56:06with a project that they assumed

56:08they'll need a heritage permit for,

56:09but because it deals with a part of the house

56:13that isn't identified in the designation bylaw,

56:15they don't technically need a heritage permit.

56:18In those situations, we still provide guidance

56:22to property owners and we can recommend

56:25to trades people and whatnot,

56:26but we can actually force them to go through

56:29the heritage permit process.

56:33Jack, I think a good document that it's actually mentioned

56:38in our official plan is a Purse Canada Standards and Guidelines

56:43for the Conservation of Historic Places in Canada,

56:48for the SNGs.

56:50So if you ever hear me talk about the SNGs, that's it.

56:53I've always appreciated their identification of three,

56:59there's basically three streams that you should choose from

57:03when talking about conservation of a heritage property.

57:06The first would be to preserve,

57:08which essentially is keeping things the way they are.

57:12Restoration, which Restore, as Jack mentioned,

57:16is to bring it in some ways, bring it back

57:19to its original state or add items

57:23that might have been missing.

57:25A third really important function or option,

57:30and I think it's really important

57:32and it can involve a combination of preservation

57:34and restoration is what's known as rehabilitation.

57:38And that's something that a lot of owners

57:40need to understand well, because it, again,

57:43it's the idea that a building or a place can have a new use.

57:48And that's actually, that's usually a good idea

57:51because the new use may make it possible

57:54to preserve or restore or to keep using it.

58:00The best way to conserve a building is to occupy it,

58:04not no matter, but especially if that new use

58:09or the occupation is appropriate

58:11for the built-in interest resource.

58:15We follow the guideline.

58:18You can make changes so long as they didn't

58:21contravene the reasons for designation.

58:24And sometimes it was controversial

58:27and we took the position that anything

58:29that could be changed back,

58:31you could do like a new roof, a paint job,

58:35things like that.

58:37And if somebody wanted to put patio doors

58:40in the front of their house, which surprisingly people do,

58:43they weren't allowed to, but they could

58:45in the back of their house, unless it was a landmark.

58:50But then there are other community,

58:52Cobra for example, now it's that you can remove

58:55the original windows from heritage houses in a place,

58:59which was something I don't agree with

59:01and which a lot of other people don't agree with.

59:03But it all depends on what your council's idea

59:07of conservation is.

59:35I think we might have lost the volume

59:38unless it's just my side.

59:42No, I just dropped that into the chat as well.

59:43Okay.

59:44I can't hear anything.

59:53I think we lost it when Stephen was giving

59:54his passionate response, I suspect.

59:57What we assume was a passionate response.

59:59Yes.

1:00:00Okay.

1:00:02Sarah, can you hear us now?

1:00:04Yeah.

1:00:05Yeah.

1:00:06I apologize for that.

1:00:07Don't know what happened there.

1:00:10Turn it back over to Cray.

1:00:11Yeah, go ahead.

1:00:12We'll move on to the next topic.

1:00:14I just want to give a chance for David and Kelly

1:00:17to maybe introduce themselves to the committee and staff.

1:00:19I know you guys didn't have a chance earlier on the meeting.

1:00:22So David, you wanna go ahead?

1:00:24Oh, can you hear me?

1:00:27Okay, I'm David Camilletti.

1:00:30I've been on the Heritage Committee since late 2022.

1:00:37I, in my other life, I am President of the

1:00:41Guelph Historical Society since 2012.

1:00:44And in my daytime role, I'm a member of the

1:00:47Law Society of Upper Canada.

1:00:48I do both litigation and real estate work.

1:00:53And it's a pleasure to be part of this committee.

1:00:57And go ahead, Kelly.

1:01:00Hi, Erwin.

1:01:01Sorry again.

1:01:01This is a crazy day for me that I was late.

1:01:05This is my, I've been on the committee for a year now.

1:01:08I've learned a lot.

1:01:09I've really enjoyed it.

1:01:12In my other life, I have been in real estate

1:01:15for about 15 years.

1:01:16I'm a Guelph native.

1:01:18I also have a, I work for coaching and training business.

1:01:24So real estate is sort of part time now.

1:01:27And happy to be here.

1:01:28I'm sorry I missed the intros.

1:01:30I assume there's some new people and I'll have

1:01:32to catch up on it.

1:01:35Thank you, Kelly.

1:01:35Thank you, David.

1:01:36And I'll move on to the next item on the agenda,

1:01:39which will be the election of the Heritage Advisory

1:01:42Committee Chair and Vice Chair.

1:01:45So we'll start with the nomination for the position of chair.

1:01:47I'll open up the floor to members of the committee

1:01:49for discussion if they wish to nominate a member

1:01:52or if they wish to self nominate.

1:01:54And Andrew, don't mind pulling up the resolution as well.

1:01:56Just we have an example for the committee

1:01:58of what a resolution would look like.

1:02:00And I'll move on to the committee.

1:02:08We've had a wonderful chair and vice chair, Sarah

1:02:12and Kimberly.

1:02:13So I would like to nominate Sarah,

1:02:17continue as the chair of the Heritage Advisory Committee

1:02:20if she's willing.

1:02:24Hi, we also, oh, sorry, Sarah.

1:02:27I just wanted to second the nomination as well.

1:02:30It's been great working with you, Sarah,

1:02:32as vice chair and US chair.

1:02:35So I would also like to nominate Sarah to stay as chair.

1:02:39So that's been moved and seconded.

1:02:41It's open for discussion.

1:02:42If any other committee members have any comments

1:02:44or questions, if not, we can call the votes.

1:02:48Good, all right, can we pull that back up?

1:02:50Please Andrew.

1:02:59David, did you have a question?

1:03:01No, I thought we were voting, sorry.

1:03:04Okay, let's get the motion up there for you.

1:03:07There we go.

1:03:08No H.

1:03:13So the resolution would be that Sarah

1:03:15be elected as chair of the Heritage Advisory Committee

1:03:17for a term ending in November,

1:03:192026 for a tall successor disappointed.

1:03:21Is anyone opposed to that?

1:03:25Yeah, none, perfect.

1:03:27And Sarah, I'll turn it over to you if you'd like,

1:03:30if you want to call the vote for a vice chair

1:03:33and then also for your board, if that's okay with you.

1:03:36Sure, and I'll just say thanks to folks

1:03:38for that positive feedback in the last couple of years.

1:03:41I appreciate that.

1:03:43So we'll call the vote for a vice chair

1:03:45and I believe David did nominate Kim

1:03:48as part of your nomination of myself, is that accurate?

1:03:52That's absolutely.

1:03:55No pressure Kim, but we can open up also for discussion.

1:04:02Maybe it's presumptuous, I mean, sorry,

1:04:05I'm losing my voice because I have a bit of a hate fever.

1:04:08I just wondered if I could put myself forward

1:04:11for the vice chair and it may be presumptuous

1:04:15to vote me as a new member,

1:04:17except none of this seems new to me.

1:04:20I consulted on the Heritage Act.

1:04:22I've done 144 designations with two provincial designations.

1:04:28I worked in a policy department for a while.

1:04:31I've gone along the leadership background,

1:04:33I've been a director in a hospital

1:04:35and I've been an ACO chair, I've been in the historical

1:04:41society, I have the thorough knowledge of architecture,

1:04:45and I have a lot of time and I wanna do something

1:04:49because I'm retired.

1:04:51So, you know, I just thought,

1:04:55and I worked at the correctional center,

1:04:56I wrote the book about the correctional center.

1:04:58So I think I could bring a lot

1:05:02as part of the sort of administration of the committee.

1:05:08So I'll jump in here.

1:05:09Now that we have two nominations on the floor,

1:05:11this is where the clerk's office can help

1:05:13with some of that procedural stuff.

1:05:15So the way it works and Chair Epp

1:05:17I'll allow you to help with the process of this,

1:05:20but you're essentially gonna call two votes, okay?

1:05:23And everyone is required to vote once

1:05:29and you're required to vote for one person only.

1:05:31And because we have two, the majority would rule.

1:05:36Chair Epp, you would go by alphabetical order there

1:05:39for my last name and Dawn,

1:05:41I apologize, I don't know your last name.

1:05:42Michael. Michael.

1:05:43So Chair Epp, we would go for a vote for Kim,

1:05:47for vice chair first.

1:05:49If five votes or more are received,

1:05:51Kim would assume the role of vice chair.

1:05:54Kim, if less than five votes were received,

1:05:56we would assume that the majority would be for Dawn

1:05:59and we would take that vote, okay?

1:06:02Does that make sense?

1:06:03But any questions on that?

1:06:04Chair Epp, sorry.

1:06:05I have a quick question.

1:06:07As chair, am I voting or not voting?

1:06:09Correct, yes.

1:06:10Everybody has a vote.

1:06:11So yes, you would be voting.

1:06:13Okay, I'll just note that I can't see everyone in the room

1:06:16and I don't have everyone's last names in front of me.

1:06:18So Garrett, could I ask you to ask each person for a vote

1:06:22or do we just call the first vote

1:06:23and whoever votes, you'll record those names?

1:06:25Yeah, Chair Epp, what we can do is you can call the vote,

1:06:28we can do by show of hands.

1:06:29We'll confirm in here the numbers

1:06:31and we'll let you know, okay?

1:06:33Fantastic, we've never had to do this before.

1:06:36It's exciting.

1:06:37So what we'll do is we'll get a motion up on the screen

1:06:39that has Kim's name in there first

1:06:43and Chair Epp, you wanna call the vote?

1:06:45Sure, I will call the vote then for Kim as vice chair.

1:06:49If you are voting for Kim, you can raise your hand please.

1:06:56So I can confirm that Kim has received

1:06:59the majority vote there, Chair Epp.

1:07:01Okay.

1:07:02And it's seven to two.

1:07:07And then that would end voting.

1:07:09Kim will recount.

1:07:14Don, there's lots of work, don't worry.

1:07:18I agree, I'll turn it over to you in order to chair it.

1:07:20Yeah, I'll turn it over to you, Chair Epp,

1:07:22or those most like the polls

1:07:24and the next item is Jordan's.

1:07:26Sorry, the next item is just adjournment.

1:07:32We have no sound again.

1:07:35You're not here if anyone's here?

1:07:37Oh, now you're back.

1:07:39Yeah, sorry, the last item on the agenda is Jordan's.

1:07:41So I just wanna call for a seconder for that.

1:07:44Yeah, is there someone who will move adjournment for today?

1:07:47Thank you, Kelly.

1:07:48And seconder, I think it was Garth.

1:07:52Garth, thank you.

1:07:53All right, thank you, sorry.

1:07:54And you posed.

1:07:58All right, everyone, we'll see you

1:07:59at our next meeting on July 3rd then.

1:08:03Thank you, everybody, we appreciate it.

1:08:05Two hours.

1:08:06Bye, everyone.

1:08:12I certainly think it's gonna be those

1:08:14one of my houses in the next three weeks or...

1:08:17Yeah, okay.